Episode 346: Stephanie Traub & Jose Chong

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·29m 35s·analyzed·Jul 4, 2022

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Interview with One iPod One Pinball streamers on competitive pinball, streaming, and community.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Stephanie Traub and Jose Chong, hosts of the 'One iPod, One Pinball' stream on the Pinball Network. They discuss their streaming origins, competitive pinball experiences including Stephanie's women's championship at InDisc 2020, tournament travel, regional pinball scenes in the D.C./Baltimore area, and their personal interests outside pinball including Jose's mechanical car work and Stephanie's involvement in Hash House Harriers running clubs.

Key Claims

Stephanie Traub won the women's championship at InDisc 2020 with 65 women competitors
high confidence · Jeff mentions specific competitors (Louise Wagenshoner, Anna Wolk, Tracy Lindberg) and Stephanie confirms winning as women's champ with a banner at the venue
Jose started streaming in 2016 after seeing Jack Danger stream, using only an iPod photo and zip-tied tripod
high confidence · Jose directly explains the origin of 'One iPod One Pinball' name and early streaming setup
Pinball was outlawed in Mexico for tax evasion reasons, eliminating public pinball locations
medium confidence · Jose states this as fact but provides limited detail; appears to be personal knowledge rather than documented source
Jose did not understand how multipliers worked on Stern Star Wars despite loving the game
high confidence · Stephanie describes discovering this during recent gameplay and explaining character-based multiplier mechanics to Jose
The Free State Pinball Association (FSPA) operates leagues in Maryland, Northern Virginia, and uses Joe Schober's software
high confidence · Stephanie provides specific details about FSPA league locations and software provider

Notable Quotes

“I only have an iPod photo, and I was able to use my iPod as a camera just to record, just to get the word out. I know it was terrible. I remember I even had a photograph holding the iPod with zip ties into a tripod.”
Jose Chong @ early in interview — Origin story of 'One iPod One Pinball' streaming brand
“I am like the most easily distracted person when I play pinball. Like I hate it when there's music playing in a bar. I hate it when it's dark in the place... and then if people stand I know a lot of people feel this way but I am totally crazy about people who like lurk over you while you're playing or in your peripheral vision I'm totally insane about stuff like that”
Stephanie Traub @ mid-interview — Reveals psychological factors affecting competitive performance despite streaming skill
“Well, it's a drinking club with a running problem.”
Stephanie Traub @ later in interview — Definition of Hash House Harriers running clubs
“no one's getting paid except maybe Jack Danger for playing pinball. So what is that supposed to mean?”
Stephanie Traub @ mid-interview — Commentary on professional pinball player status in the industry
“I instantly connect with pinball again after, I don't know, 30, 40 years.”
Jose Chong @ discussing return to pinball — Jose's rediscovery of pinball after decades away from playing as a teenager in Mexico

Entities

Stephanie TraubpersonJose ChongpersonJeff TeolispersonOne iPod One PinballproductPinball NetworkorganizationInDisceventJersey Jack PinballcompanyFree State Pinball Association (FSPA)organizationStern Star Warsgame

Signals

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community_signal: One iPod One Pinball maintains strong relationship with Jersey Jack Pinball, receiving playfield giveaways for stream contests
high · Stephanie mentions JJP regularly reaching out with offers to send prizes for streams, provided Hobbit playfield
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event_signal: Pinball Profile Played in America Tour scheduled for July 2 at Delaware Pinball Collective with broader regional event presence in D.C./Baltimore area
high · Jeff announces specific tour date and location at end of interview
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competitive_signal: Stephanie Traub confirmed as top-tier female competitive player with InDisc 2020 women's championship win over 65 competitors
high · Jeff references specific win with banner display, Stephanie confirms and mentions last-minute qualification
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sentiment_shift: Jose Chong's understanding of Stern Star Wars gameplay mechanics improved significantly after learning multiplier system from Stephanie
high · Stephanie recounts discovering Jose didn't understand character-based multipliers despite loving the game, explains he now enjoys it more after learning rules
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technology_signal: Free State Pinball Association operates competitive leagues using Joe Schober's league management software
high · Stephanie mentions FSPA uses Schober's software, implies widespread adoption in regional leagues
?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.089

0:00

it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teolis you can find everything on pinballprofile.com or on facebook or on twitter and instagram at pinball profile you can email pinballprofile at gmail.com. You have probably seen these two on stream. They stream for the Pinball Network. One iPod, one pinball. Stephanie Traub and Jose Chong join us. Hi, how are you doing? Hey, good. How are you, Jeff? Hey, hello, Jeff. The name, One iPod, One Pinball, I'm sure you've explained before. I might have missed it. Where did that come from? Well, it's a long story. I started streaming back in 2016. and I remember, I think it was Jack Danger, when I saw him streaming, and I said, boy, how can I do that? And I was so excited. I have at the time probably three or four games, and I get to discover the software, and I learned that I just need a camera. I did not have a camera. I did not have a microphone. I did not have anything, but I only have an iPod photo, and I was able to use my iPod as a camera just to record, just to get the word out. I know it was terrible. I remember I even had a photograph holding the iPod with zip ties into a tripod.

1:34

And, of course, I mean, I never thought that I would be doing this for so long now. And so just the name, the name stays like that. One iPod and one pinball, you know. It's a silly thing. I've often thought that the name should be changed, but we spent good money on that logo, so the name stays. It's a good logo. It's a good name as well. There's nothing wrong with that. It is a silly game, I know, but at the time it was like, oh, how should I name these? Oh, what do I have here? Oh, I have a pinball. Oh, I have an iPod. Oh, that's it. It's a little more elaborate now when you watch the stream, and occasionally Tuesdays, sometimes Thursdays on the Pinball Network. I know, Stephanie, you are really into the competitive scene. In fact, we're going to get into some of your big victories. But when you stream and you're talking to the chat and you're talking to Jose or Jose, you're talking to Stephanie. From a competitive standpoint, I've always thought if you can do that, you can probably block out other things when you're playing. No, I wish. No? Oh, I wish. Oh, no. I'm like the most easily distracted person when I play pinball. Like I hate it when there's music playing in a bar. I hate it when it's dark in the place like at MAGFest it was so dark and people were like oh yeah this is cool and I'm like I can't see and then if people stand I know a lot of people feel this way but I am totally crazy about people who like lurk over you while you're playing or in your peripheral vision I'm totally insane about stuff like that I just bottle it up inside and don't tell anyone until I tell people later when I rant but don't let it fool you Jose is very competitive, too. He just doesn't let anyone know. Like, he's been going to more of the big tournaments recently, and he did pretty well in the Delaware Pinball Open main event. So don't let his calm, you know, suave, accented demeanor fool you. I'm just trying to be relaxed, you know what I mean? I'm just trying to be relaxed. But, yeah, definitely, yeah. Stephanie is the one that gets more serious. And even when we stream, sometimes you're just focused. Well, because if people are watching, I don't want people to think that we really suck because why would they want to continue to watch? Just like yesterday when someone was like, oh, I remember we were streaming Attack from Mars and we don't stream that one very often because I often overlook it because it's, everyone's played Attack from Mars. I try to play a different game, but I realized we hadn't streamed it since we had Dave Hubbard on. I think it was right before pandemic times and, you know, Dave Hubbard's very good and has been playing pinball for like 20 years or something. And he's, you know, been in the state championship winner and all that sort of stuff. And anyway, so some guy on our stream yesterday was like, oh, I remember when you, the last time you streamed this, you had a pro player on. And I was like, what does that mean? He's not a, I mean, who's a pro player really? Like no one's getting paid except maybe Jack Danger for playing pinball. So what is that supposed to mean? So, yes, I do try to focus a little bit. But when I first started streaming with Jose, I look back on them. And I remember a guy that used to play pinball in D.C. mentioned it. Like, he had watched our stream. He's like, you guys got to talk more. And I look back on them on, like, YouTube. If you go back to, like, the first couple that I was on with him, I, like, didn't talk at all. I'm like, shut up. I got to play. Because people care. But clearly no one cares. So now I try to talk more. And, yeah, I do think about that. I'm like, oh, I should learn how to, like, be more adaptable to distractions. But it's a work in progress. That is definitely one of my weaknesses is easily distracted. But I say this to anyone who does streaming. As someone who watches on the other side, when you engage the chat, it's very, very important. And you're both excellent at that. And in fact, it was maybe a couple of months ago that there was a really good stream. You were playing Hobbit, and again, on one iPod, one pinball, you're playing Hobbit, and you're taking names, and you're giving away a play field thanks to JJP. I thought that was pretty cool. Yeah, we have a good relationship with JJP. I don't know why they like us so much But It hasn't been the first time That they will reach us Like hey guys are you streaming any JJP games Yeah we can voice some shorts but a play field was a pretty big deal And I think Howard Dobson Yeah he did And pretty much I reached them And said hey guys we're going to stream The Hobbit would you like to Send something To be in our way of the stream Well, yeah, and Carl gives away stuff on his stream all the time, but Carl is like a super-duper streamer, and he's like super-duper good at pinball. But, yes, it was great for Jersey Jack to give us that stuff. Give us a play for him to give away. So it's interesting when people watch streams. They watch for different reasons. They watch because they like the personalities. They're interested in the game. They might learn something. Maybe it's a game that's new. Maybe it's a game that's old that you haven't seen in a while, but you can kind of maybe learn a little bit from streams. I know that's where I get a lot of my information. Is it the same for both of you? Yeah, that is definitely why. Whenever I watch pinball streams, it is pretty much solely to learn rules. So I really do appreciate it when streamers focus on rules. I'm not saying that I do at all because I think Jose would get bored. But I do try to get people, if they have questions about the rules, to ask them. I do try to learn the rules as best as I can before we stream a game But you know sometimes I watch like Raymond Davidson like explain the Avengers and I'm like, oh, my God, I don't think I have the brain capacity to explain this to people. So I very much appreciate when, you know, really high-ranked players explain how to play games. Like, well, Bowman's aren't streams, but those tutorials are extremely helpful to me. I think before InDisc, I really wanted to learn how to play. Oh, not I think. I definitely, before InDisc, I saw that Stargate was there. And I don't know Stargate very well, but there's a Stargate that's on location around here. And I was like, oh, that's a really weird game. I bet a lot, but this is never the case. I'm like, oh, maybe a lot of people won't know how to play it. But that's ridiculous for me to think because all the really good players know how to play every game. It seems like they know how to play every game. So I watched a Buffalo pinball stream. It was archived, but it was about Stargate, and it was very, very helpful. And then I went and played it, and it was horrible. And I was like, okay, I'm not going to play Stargate, but I'm glad that I learned it from the stream. I've had that happen at a few tournaments where, like, that's my favorite game. Oh, I even own that game maybe, and I won't touch it because I'll play it, and the shots might be different. and they've maybe changed the tilt settings or the flippers are dropped a little bit. And I'm like, stay away. It'll just, my instincts will screw me up. Yeah, I think the Stargate at InDisc, on the right, like out lane, in lane thing, there's some rubbers there, but there's like a giant hole. And since they took the rubbers off every time the ball went there, I was like, oh, the ball's gone. And it was a tough skill shot plunge. Yes, it was. People were watching going, why aren't you starting multi-ball? And it was like, it's not as easy as you think. I mean, I think in the finals, out of the four players, maybe it happened twice. Yeah, it was really hard. And it's one of those skill shots that you feel really dumb if you miss it. Because you're like, oh, this is really simple. Like, you just have to put it. Put it into the ramp. Well, the ramp, and it can't go too short or it falls into the inline. Yeah, but at least for me, that skill shot is like, every time I miss it, I feel really stupid. I'm like, dude, why couldn't you have done this correctly? Yeah, I think that's the difference in personalities on our stream. Stephanie is way more technical than me. Some people have asked, like, so what do you guys do on the stream? And I say, well, just a couple of friends, just playing like regular people, like two normal people, you know? Yeah, I recently found out that Jose really likes, well, I knew that Jose really likes Stern Star Wars, the game. I know a lot of people don't like that game. I really do like that game, and I'll admit it to everyone, people are like, it's so gross. I'm like, no, it's a great game. What are you talking about? They always said, oh, yeah, I want a Star Wars. I'm going to get one someday. I'm like, oh, good. I recently found out, like, he didn't understand how the multipliers worked at all. He didn't know how to move them. He didn't know, like, how to, and I was like, what? Are you kidding? You love this game, and you don't understand, like, a major part of it? and I had to explain how certain of the characters you pick. But how confident I look when I play. But, Jose, now you love that game. Now that you know the multipliers, you liked it before. Yeah, he's like, now this game is even more fun. But, yeah, he didn't understand how the different characters light up different missions on the different, you know, Hoth or whatever. And I had to explain how you could take a wizard mode on each one. He's like, oh, really? Well, now I have to train my brain and my hands to do all the changes, He's like, press the button, move the flipper, choose the shot, and then press again. So basically, he's learning how to play the game. Well, let's talk about Star Wars for a second because I saw the two of you recently at District 82. They had a Star Wars there, and I was playing somebody in competition. I was the fourth player. All three players picked Luke. What? Thank you for saying that. I don't think I've ever played as Luke. I've tried the other three. I know R2-D2's got big points, but you can kind of get in jail if you miss out there. Leia, there's a strat to get... Wait, were you playing people who never played? No, no. And I was asking them, like, am I missing something here? You can tell me after the game, but I've never played as Luke. Honestly, I do not know how to play as Luke. The weirdest one to me that I know how to play kind of is the Leia thing, where you're supposed to light all the missions but not start them. And that's strange to me. I don't like it. And so, yeah, but no, I have no idea how to play as Luke. Did they explain it to you? What did they say? You know what? If they did, it's long forgotten. Did you win? I did, doing the stupid Leia strat. Yeah, good, because why were they playing Luke?

12:06

Good, I'm glad you watched that. But that was a fun place, District 82. And, you know, you were talking about being at different places. You were at the Delaware Pinball Collective, of course, in disc, and you both did well there. But District 82 was a lot of fun. close to you. You've got pinball tomorrow. You're getting to travel a little more. You're going to more pinball events. What are some of your favorites? I hadn't really done Indisc in 2020. I think the first time I had tried, I'm not counting Pinberg. I went to Pinberg in 2018 and 2019. Jose unfortunately never got to go to Pinberg. But other than that, going to Indisc in 2020 was definitely the furthest I had ever been. Good thing you went. Yeah, good thing I went. I'll say it. You were the women's champ. There were 65 women. And, Stephanie, it was you, it was Louise Wagenshoner, it was Anna Wolk, and also Tracy Lindberg. I mean, four incredible players, and you came out on top. Yeah, that was a lot of fun, and it was a welcome surprise because I remember I qualified at like the last minute. I was like, oh, I'm not going to make it, and I did make it, and I did pretty well. And I do miss that Museum of Pinball out there. That was a cool place. but going this year to Riverside was cool and I'm glad they put it together in 2021 because I was sad. What year is it now? I don't even know. It was 2022, but yeah, so we only missed one year. So that was good. Carl puts on a good show. He does a lot of work. And what do you think, Jose? I mean, it was obviously nice to see that banner with Stephanie's name on it, but Indisc as a whole, pretty cool? Yeah, pretty cool. I mean, I enjoy, you know, I am more like a people person. I definitely enjoy playing, but I do also enjoy catching up with old friends. I like to talk about whatever. I mean, sometimes even outside people, you know, like, hey, how have you been, blah, blah, blah. And, of course, playing competitively, but I enjoy more seeing a lot of people around and having the same. And you get to meet a lot more people if you travel. Yeah. But I did enjoy, we went to the Chicago Expo. I was bummed that we couldn't tour the Stern factory, so I'll have to go back sometime and do that. Oh, Chicago Expo, right. That's better. We don't remember our next one. Oh, yeah, let's not talk about that. When Jose blew it and the bee, he plunged. We'll just say this. There's video evidence on a stream. So he thought he had won. Jose owns a Jurassic Park, which is like one of my favorite games. And Jose definitely knows the rules of that game. But he was player one and he was playing someone from our local Free State Pinball Association which is a big league around here Joe Schober does a lot of I think his software is the software that a lot of leagues use around We use it here? Yeah. Joe does a great job. So it was a local player from the FSPA, and I guess Jose was feeling a little too confident, and on ball three of Jurassic Park, he thought he was, He started system boot or something and hit a big shot, and then he was like, oh, phew. Then he let it drain because he thought he was player two. Oh, no. And, yeah. It was 150. We don't talk about that anymore because I got too mad about it. Jose, that's a mistake we've all made at some point, maybe a different game, but I'll tell you this right now. You make it, and you never make that mistake again. It's in your head forever, so it's like playing out of turn. I wish I played on a turn only once, and that was out of my head forever. I've definitely done that more than once, but yes, the more you do it, for sure. But, Jose, I mean, you said you started streaming in 2016, but when you came here from Mexico, I mean, pinball was a whole new thing for you. What got you hooked? Well, when I was a teenager in Mexico, there were some arcades, and I think like any teenager would go to the arcades and play. I remember seeing some people. I clearly remember playing Haunted House, Godlieb Haunted House. And I remember the three different play fields. And Black Hole, I remember playing that also when I was a kid. And Gorgar. Didn't you mention Gorgar? Also Gorgar. Gorgar, actually, I think it was my very first game that I will actually, kind of not steal money from my grandma, but ask for money. And then Pinball was outlawed in Mexico. For real. and do for tax evasion thing. And since today, there's no public locations for pinball in Mexico. And anyway, so then moved to the U.S., et cetera, et cetera. I think that one day we're just like sitting in front of the computer and saying, oh, I remember this game, whatever happened. And, you know, when I searched for it, I think it was probably Gorgar. And he just showed me a lot of results. And then I learned that there's people playing pinball. and one night I just decided to stop by Crap Town. I remember it was Crap Town, a local restaurant that has an arcade. I instantly connect with pinball again after, I don't know, 30, 40 years. I have a similar story. It wasn't quite the distance of 40 years, but it was a long time playing in my 20s and then seeing a pinball machine on vacation. I think it was 43. I've gone back in time. I'm not older than 43 now. I mean, it's weird how that's happened. But yeah, it was like, oh boy, I remember having so much fun and then finding out about leagues. In fact, I think my first ever win in a tournament was actually in D.C. of all places. Oh yeah, you mentioned that at Lyman's. It was at Lyman's. The mayor, James Daly, was running this tournament and we qualified, I think, by meeting him and having to beat him. If you beat him, you made it to the playoffs. I got lucky. Oh yeah, it was like none shall pass. That's it. Yeah, that was before I started playing pinball, but I had heard about that tournament, and it was like a pretty legendary tournament. You don't get a tournament by invites, no? I don't remember. It really was before my time. I remember that he approached me when I started playing, and he said to me, if you can beat me, like, on two out of three games, I will invite you. Oh, well, I think that was separate. I played with him. I remember three games, and I won two games, It's like he wrote down my name in a piece of paper. Yeah, that was a sanctioned tournament, though, because I remember seeing it. It was. So how it worked was most people are playing them in D.C., I guess, either at Lyman's or Black Cat or wherever. But I saw that this tournament was happening when I happened to be in D.C., and he said, well, you've got to qualify beforehand. I'm like, oh, I can't be there. And he goes, well, are you going to Pimberg? I'm like, yeah. He goes, well, play me there. So we played a bunch of games there, and I think if it went to seven games, it took seven games just to get in. He was kicking my butt, and I got lucky there. So I then, quote, qualified for this tournament and got lucky. But it's a good pinball scene there in D.C. and certainly with Baltimore, pinball, Timor and that kind of area, and Free State as well. So, yeah, the Free State Pinball Association does leagues in a lot of leagues in northern Virginia, at Moms and College Park, which is actually the only one in Maryland now, is the one in Moms because there used to be Volleyball House, but that got torn down. And then Lineman's in D.C. has their own league. They're not affiliated with Free State Pinball Association, but there is a lot of pinball at breweries in Northern Virginia. There's also a lot of brewing in Mustang Sally, and there's Solace Brewing as well. Yeah, there's a lot of good pinball places up around here. And then Holy Free Holies in Baltimore, which is about a 45-minute drive north from D.C. They have a great collection there. Jeff Danik, who's the owner of Holy Free Holies, he runs Pin Baltimore with Jake Peterson and Lana Summers, who is on the IFPA Women's Board. It's Jeff Danik, mostly Jeff Danik's personal collection of a million, bajillion games, and he puts a lot of them on location available for public play in the restaurant, and then he has like Clubhouse, which is not open all the time, but it's where Pin Baltimore is, So where you've seen where the competition is in Baltimore, that big room with the rustic-looking paint on the walls and stuff. But some of those games are also Jake Peterson's, and Howard has a couple games there. So, yeah, it's a great location. I love the vibe. Holy for Holy, the vibe is similar to, like, Lyman's. It's a hangout, cool place to hang out. So, yeah, we have a good scene here, and hopefully it will keep growing. I will have to check out some of these places. I've been writing these down because I'm there for the Independence Day weekend in the D.C. area, Washington, Baltimore, and, of course, July 2nd at the Delaware Pinball Collective for the Pinball Profile Played in America Tour. But, yeah, I mean, it's always been a strong pinball area, so I'm not surprised with events like Pinball-timore and all these locations. So it's glad to see it has survived the last couple of years and the mess that we've been in, so that's good. Now, we know you from the stream. We know you from competitions, but there's other sides to you. I mean, there's other sides to me. And for you, Jose, the big thing that kind of ties into pinball a little bit is you're really into cars and getting your hands dirty and getting in there and fixing cars, going under the hood. There's a lot of similarities to that in pinball. Yeah.

23:12

But he has three. What's the laugh there? The motorcycle? That sounds like fun. Yeah, so all his cars are Volkswagens, all three of them. No, I mean, yeah, pretty much all my cars are just sitting in the garage. Yeah, I don't know what to do with them. I mean, I drive them less, but I don't know. I mean, I still enjoy working on them. But again, yes, this love for mechanics translated moving into pinball. See, it's starting to make sense because I'm not very good when it comes to fixing things. And if it comes to a car, forget it. So that consistency of sucking at cars, sucking at fixing pinball machines, it makes sense. Whereas you're good at both. I got it. Okay, I'm figuring it out. Now, Stephanie, I love your little side hobby. You were telling me, you know, there's my pinball friends and then there's my running friends. I'm like, oh, running, that's great. I'm like, my nephew is a marathon runner and represented Canada in the Olympics and all this kind of good stuff. That is definitely not me. I've never run a marathon. I've run many half marathons, but anyway, yes. Okay, but what you were telling me about hashing I had never heard about, and it's fascinating. Explain what this hashing is. So it's called Hash House Harriers. There's a big Wikipedia page about it, actually, where it's an international affiliation. And it's, you know, it's not, there's no like hashing governing body or anything. It's informal, but it started a long time ago, like in the military, like in Kuala Lumpur, mostly with men back then, but now it's, you know, co-ed. Where groups of people all around the world get together and they're called kennels. Yes, like dog kennels, but each group is called a kennel and they each have different names. Like DC has several groups of them. Like I remember when I went to Pittsburgh for Pinberg, there was definitely one in Pittsburgh. When I went to Tokyo in 2019, there's a group there where a group of people, they can be extremely large groups or small groups, just depending on where you are. All ages, you have to be 21 or over, you know, if you're supposed to be. But it's definitely a wide range of ages from like 21 to 80. So why do you got to be over 21? What's up with this? Just trying to get to the most interesting part of it. So it's called the phrase that it's known as is called a drinking club with a running problem. So what happens is that the group of people gets together, you know, once a week or once a month, it depends on the group and how many people are basically they get together and a person or a couple of people are assigned as the hares. like think of like rabbits, and they lay a trail before, well, not necessarily before, but right before the run, like they set off ahead of the pack, and they lay a trail with the colored chalk and flour. They like throw flour on the ground, and it can be in the woods. It can be in a city. It can be both. It can involve crossing lakes and getting your feet dirty. Basically, you're running this trail that they lay and you're trying to catch them. And then generally, I would say average, it depends, but the run is probably around, you know, four miles. Or obviously, they can have longer ones if they want or shorter ones. But I would say that's the average. And then in the middle, there is usually, it's called a beer check, where there are beverages of alcoholic type where people socialize, you know, halfway through the run. So you drink a beer or something, and then the hares go lay the other half of the trail, and then you try to catch them. And then at the end of the run, there's more beer, and then there's songs, like traditional songs, and people get specific hash names. So you call people by their hash name. It is usually a crude name of some kind, not like curse words or anything, but it's, you know. It is obscene. It's not obscene. They can be, but it's friendly camaraderie, and then we usually go to a bar afterwards. In Japan, it was like you paid, and you had a dinner afterwards every time, and so it depends on where you are. But yeah, I got into that back in 2011 or 12 years ago. It was a great way to meet new people in a new city. Good social. Yeah, that's good. I like this way better than I know some of the people do the Tough Mudders. No, no. Oh, yeah. No, not a chance. Yeah. But it does. It did. Actually, back when I started, I was not very in shape. And it definitely there are people who are involved in the but there are definitely people involved in the hash groups that are not into competitive running at all. But it definitely got me more. And I hadn't run a race ever. And then I started running races. I used to run races all the time and then COVID happened. And then my, since those got canceled, my, they were very motivating. So my physical fitness kind of declined. So I'm trying to get back into that again now that there's races again, but it's definitely a cool way to meet people and get a little active and, and drink if you want to. But I did the drinking and the middle part was not for me. That just makes my stomach, my stomach upset. But don't be hard on yourself about the after COVID, you know, my body wasn't ready for this. I think we all put on a few COVID pounds. I mean, I've got the COVID pounds excuse. I've got the dad bod excuse.