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The Great British Pinball Podcast EP 35

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 8m·analyzed·Jul 17, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.022

TL;DR

UK podcast hosts debate Pinfest drama, used game pricing collapse, and mixed views on recent Spooky/Stern releases.

Summary

Scott Rundell and Neil McRae discuss UK pinball events and game releases, focusing on Pinfest logistics controversies (room booking leaks, distributor competition bringing 70 machines, some collectors asked not to bring games), secondary market pricing trends (World Cup Soccer, Evil Dead, Harry Potter, Metallica), Spooky Pinball reliability concerns (Evil Dead driver board issues), and recent releases including Sonic (negative first impressions of playflow), Beetlejuice (hype decline, game undershooting Evil Dead), Kong (positive reception), and Pokemon (Neil's unit arrived after 3-week wait).

Key Claims

  • The UK has the most expensive electricity in Europe if not the world, thanks to energy policy

    low confidence · Neil McRae, political commentary on UK energy costs mid-episode

  • Two major UK pinball distributors are each bringing 35 machines to Pinfest, causing some collector contributors to be asked not to bring games

    high confidence · Neil McRae, discussion of Pinfest logistics and distributor competition

  • Phil (Pinfest organizer) has become a full-time Stern dealer and deals directly with Stern

    medium confidence · Neil McRae, explaining distributor business dynamics

  • ElectroCoin is backing David (a retro arcade specialist) as competition to Phil's distributor business

    medium confidence · Neil McRae, discussing distributor rivalry

  • Spooky Pinball's Evil Dead has reliability issues after one year, particularly with the driver board and coil protection

    high confidence · Neil McRae, first-hand experience with Evil Dead ownership and maintenance

  • World Cup Soccer (Bally 90s) sold at Pinball Heaven for approximately £2,200-£2,500, representing a new low for that title

    medium confidence · Neil McRae, observing secondary market pricing trends

  • Stern's Sonic (Steve Ritchie design) receives negative feedback on playflow, described as boring and bricky by players at Custard Pinball Club

    medium confidence · Neil McRae, reporting feedback from venue playtesters

  • Beetlejuice hype has peaked and the game is falling down Pinball Info rankings

    medium confidence · Neil McRae, observing community sentiment and ranking position

  • Pokemon machines are now arriving in the UK market; Neil's unit sat in his shed for three weeks due to space constraints

    high confidence · Neil McRae, personal experience with Pokemon delivery

Notable Quotes

  • “The customer is always right. And especially in pinball, the customer is probably more right than the average hobby.”

    Neil McRae @ ~15:30 — Frames the tension between event organizers and exhibitors; Neil prioritizing collector/attendee satisfaction over distributor interests

  • “I'm bringing Beetlejuice. I'm bringing Star Wars of the Empire. I'm thinking about bringing Transformers... the Mystery House game, the biggest mystery is when it's going to get fucking delivered.”

    Neil McRae @ ~18:00 — Exasperation about Barrels of Fun delivery delays while joking about his Pinfest lineup

  • “The driver board, frankly, it's junk. I'm not having to go spooky on that. They've made it a lot better, but every kind of issue that I'm getting has some relation to that board or the coils.”

    Neil McRae @ ~35:00 — Direct criticism of Spooky Pinball's electronics reliability in Evil Dead after a year of ownership

  • “It looks like one of the most boring pins that Steve Ritchie ever come out with, candidly.”

    Neil McRae @ ~58:00 — Strong negative first impression of Stern's Sonic pinball game

  • “I don't know. Part of me just feels like it hasn't got the same desirability that I had when I wanted Evil Dead. I still regret not having that game.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~47:00 — Expresses hesitation about Beetlejuice, comparing it unfavorably to Evil Dead

  • “I honestly think it was a little bit overhyped from the usual kind of like creator crowd.”

    Neil McRae @ ~51:00 — Attribution of Beetlejuice's hype cycle to content creators rather than organic market demand

  • “There's a bunch of spooky guys who suddenly saw, you know, after a while with Evil Dead where the flipping started kind of late... they've sold them all because they were able to sell them for more money.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~53:00 — Observation of secondary market flipping behavior and FOMO-driven price speculation

Entities

Neil McRaepersonScott RundellpersonPhilpersonDavidpersonJamespersonSteve Ritchieperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinfest room booking leaked early, causing over-registration and subsequent controversy when organizer asked some game contributors not to bring machines. Two distributors coordinating to bring ~70 combined machines, creating market consolidation dynamics.

    high · Neil details booking leak ('Booking Gate'), distributor competition bringing 35 each, James withdrawing over policy, Phil attempting to manage logistics

  • $

    market_signal: Broad decline in used pinball pricing across multiple titles. World Cup Soccer sold for £2,200-£2,500 (new low), Stranger Things unsold at £10k, distributors now capturing resale inventory from trade-ins rather than private sales.

    high · Neil observations on pricing trends, WCS sale, Stranger Things listing failure, influx of distributor inventory, Metallica Premium sale but with difficulty

  • ?

    product_concern: Spooky Pinball Evil Dead exhibits driver board and coil protection failures after one year of ownership. Neil reports ongoing electronics-related issues despite improvements from earlier versions. No similar complaints heard about FAST hardware-based boutiques.

    high · Neil's direct ownership experience: 'driver board, frankly, it's junk,' reports unresolved coil and board issues despite improvements, contrasts with FAST reliability

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Beetlejuice hype cycle has peaked. Falling Pinball Info rankings, minimal community discussion, content creators overhyped the title relative to actual game quality and reception. Described as overshadowed by Evil Dead comparison.

    high · Neil: 'it's peated out a bit,' 'falling down like miles down the old list,' 'it was a little bit overhyped from the usual kind of like creator crowd,' Scott's decision to skip

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.046

0:00
Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast and here are your hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae. Ladies and gentlemen, no it's not the World Cup, it's something far better and after an absolutely dismal performance from England, it's great to be a Scott. So, welcome, this is, as always, the Great British Pinball Podcast. I am Neil McRae and I'm joined, as always, by Scott Rundle. How are you, Scott? Tired. You look hot. I'm flustered. Damn hot. I mean, it's boiling, man. Like, I know Americans always say, hey, you guys don't know what real temperatures are like, this is normal for us. We don't have houses that are literally built for hot climates. We're built for the cold. My house feels like a greenhouse at the moment. I swear it's colder outside than it is inside at the moment. For those of you on YouTube, I'm sharing my air conditioning remote. Look at that. I've got air conditioning but only in one room and that's the reserve for my child. I'm about 21 and a half degrees in my pin room right now.
1:26
So when I bought the house we're in, we had to reconfigure all the rooms. And a friend of mine who I worked with at the time said, oh, Neil, if you didn't, you should put air conditioning in. And I was like, hmm, okay. And so upstairs, we've got vented air conditioning.
1:46
So there's no noise. It's like a house in Florida. It's just cold. And my wife, bless her and love her, was totally against air conditioning. And over the last few years, actually since COVID, I don't remember like the first lockdown of COVID, it was super hot.
2:07
Kind of, or was it the second one? I can't remember, but it was really hot summer. And being locked up indoors all day because the Stasi would arrest you if you went outside for any longer than a moment. Yeah, the air conditioning was just glorious.

  • Boutique manufacturers Prudetti and Barrels of Fun use FAST hardware instead of custom electronics, citing reliability advantages

    high confidence · Neil McRae, industry observation on electronics architecture choices

    • “I felt that, well, hold on, we've always brung pins. We want to bring pins. I like to share what I've got with the community.”

    [name withheld pending review] @ ~28:00 — Captures collector frustration at being told not to contribute games to Pinfest

  • “The problem with the UK is we don't get to try games before you've bought them, which means you just have to kind of take a gamble.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~42:00 — Highlights geographic market disadvantage for UK buyers in the pinball collector space

  • “I would definitely think that chaining shots is what I imagined a Sonic game would look like.”

    Scott Rundell @ ~60:00 — Critique of Sonic's design failing to match expected gameplay flow for the IP

    • George Gomez
    person
    The Great British Pinball Podcastorganization
    Pinfestevent
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Barrels of Funcompany
    ElectroCoincompany
    Evil Deadgame
    Beetlejuicegame
    Sonicgame
    Pokemongame
    JAWSgame
    Konggame
    World Cup Soccergame
    Winchester Mystery Housegame
    Pinball Infoproduct
    FAST hardwareproduct
    Custard Pinball Clubvenue
    ?

    gameplay_signal: Stern's Sonic (Steve Ritchie design) receives poor playflow reviews. Described as bricky, lacks flow despite fan layout, wide flipper gap on upper playfield makes shot chaining difficult. Venue testers report boredom. Contrasts negatively with Kong's praised shot-chaining mechanics.

    high · Neil: 'one of the most boring pins that Steve Ritchie's ever come out with,' 'overwhelming feedback...was that it was boring,' 'bricky and didn't feel like...flow'

  • $

    market_signal: UK pinball distributor landscape consolidating. Phil converted to full-time Stern dealer (direct relationship), ElectroCoin backing David as competitive alternative. Both bringing large machine counts to Pinfest signals business competition and market anxiety over distributor margins.

    high · Neil: Phil 'full-time Stern dealer,' 'they're clearly panicked, they're losing a lot of business,' ElectroCoin 'backing up David,' '35 machines each' coordination

  • ?

    product_concern: Barrels of Fun Winchester Mystery House experiencing significant delivery delays. Neil's Pokemon machine sat unused in shed for three weeks due to inventory/logistics backlog.

    high · Neil: Winchester 'biggest mystery is when it's going to get fucking delivered,' Pokemon 'sat in my shed for three weeks because I had nowhere to put it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinfest policy shift (asking some collectors not to bring machines) created community friction. Some collectors see contribution as community service, organizer sees it as logistics optimization. James withdrew entirely over policy disagreement.

    high · Neil paraphrasing James: 'we've always brung pins...I like to share what I've got with the community,' James 'I'm done with Pinfest,' some rejoiced at not having to transport

  • ?

    design_innovation: Sonic's upper playfield design uses wide flipper gap as intentional mechanic to prevent prolonged upper playfield retention (lesson learned from past designs). Reflects industry design philosophy shift balancing flow vs. difficulty.

    medium · Neil: 'It's deliberate so that you don't have it up there all the time where...' Scott: 'They've kind of learned the pain of that'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Boutique manufacturers (Prudetti, Barrels of Fun) choosing third-party FAST hardware over custom electronics. Neil attributes choice to cost-reliability tradeoff and superior coil protection versus custom Spooky architecture.

    high · Neil: 'I can see why the boutiques like Prudetti and Barrels of Fun switched to it because whilst it's expensive, it seems to be quite reliable. I never hear anybody complaining about a blown IO board'

  • $

    market_signal: UK pinball buyers operate at disadvantage versus overseas markets: cannot demo games before purchase, long delivery times, higher electricity costs, smaller venue footprint. Creates friction in adoption of new releases.

    high · Scott: 'The problem with the UK is we don't get to try games before you've bought them, which means you just have to kind of take a gamble'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Evil Dead experienced delayed flipping cycle that extended hype. Beetlejuice attracted flippers seeking repeat success, but secondary market failed to sustain demand. Scott notes UK collectors ordered Evil Deads still unfulfilled while units resold for profit.

    high · Scott: 'there's a bunch of folks in the UK that had Evil Dead's ordered and none of them have got them still. They've sold them all because they were able to sell them for more money'

    • 2:27
    And we got it downstairs in a couple of rooms, but they're the kind of split units. So they're a bit noisy. You don't have to have them on for long. You have solar though, right, I'm assuming? Yeah, so I've got solar. So literally, I mean, this is the laugh a minute. Well, you know, air conditioning uses lots of power. No, when it's fucking sunny, it doesn't, because you've got solar. And then I charge a battery and the battery pretty much covers it overnight, or at least to the point where it turns off in the middle of the night. Because if you leave it on too long, you kind of wake up with like a dry mouth like you've never experienced, basically. That's wild issues there. But I have to say, you know, there is a downside of air conditioning is that you get used to not being hot. Oh yeah. So when I go outside it's like, you know, it's like I've been stunned by a heat grenade.
    3:24
    And actually this week I kind of, I had a bit of a cold on Monday. I had a bit of a cold I picked up on Sunday. On Monday I didn't feel 100% so I kind of just bailed out of going into the office which I'm glad I did. But Tuesday I went into London and I don't know, Southwest trains, sometimes they've got trains that are like meat lockers. Sometimes they're like pizza ovens. Unfortunately, I got pizza oven on both in and out. I had that yesterday. They were running a five-carriage service on a peak-time train, and everybody was cramming into the aisles and around the doors. Do you know what I mean? It felt like you were in India or something. I'll be honest, that's one of my guilty investments is a first-class pass. My company won't let me expense that. I believe they won't. Because it's my place of work, whenever I've worked in... When I was doing a lot of travelling, obviously I was sat at home or on a plane.
    4:34
    Now I'm in the office a bit more. I've treated myself to a first class season ticket, which is worth every penny. The walking is only 25 minutes, so I don't get long enough to do anything useful even though I'm sitting down.
    4:53
    So yeah, it's hot. The UK is hot. All the pinball clubs and places around the UK are hot. And all the pinball players are smelly. Yeah, I was going to ask you that. Is the club like air-cond? So the club has got air conditioning and it was like one of the units works fine, two of the units do not work. And because of that, it just basically means it just doesn't work because there's not enough power. And the other unit goes into like crazy mode and eventually gets so hot it kind of pings out. Unfortunately, the air conditioning, it can't be fixed because it's of a vintage where whenever a health and safety person sees it, they're like, oh, you need to rip that out and replace it with something that's not like, I don't know, unread. It basically, it's an age where you can't repair it because it uses, I think, fluoride in it or something. So you've got to effectively bin it and replace it. And that's like change of 20 grand, which the club doesn't have. So, yeah. And, I mean, I'll be honest with you, I think eventually we might have to go down that route, especially if it's much hotter because… Well, it feels like it's going to be the norm, right, in this country now. I think we're going to be seeing temperatures of, like, 40 and maybe even 50s at one point next year. It was like, this is nuts. Yeah, well, let's wait and see what happens next year. I think if that happens, we might have to have a GoFundMe on it and see if we can raise the cash. But, I mean, it's a tricky one. I mean, the other challenge is, if you get it, it'll cost the fortune to run. So, yeah, no easy answers on that. And electricity, thanks to the glorious Ed Miliband, Ed Nutcase Band, is we are the most expensive electricity in Europe, if not the world, Which is just absolutely mental considering the natural reserves that we've got.
    7:01
    And anyway, yeah, so heat, smelly people, pinball people, we've got Pinfest coming up. Let's not be smelly at Pinfest, please. I think, Phil, this is for you, mate. You need to leave some emergency deodorant at the table at the front. Oh, yeah. To be fair to Phil, he has it. Does he? Oh, there we go. I laughed, but that's true then. Okay. No, I am 99.99% sure he had an emergency can of links by the desk last year that made me laugh.
    7:40
    But I know, I mean, look, just cover Pinfest for a moment. Yeah. I know there's a lot of frustration about the rooms. I know there's a lot of frustration about stuff in general and what I understand and I think from what I'm seeing Phil's going to have all that fixed for next year.
    8:09
    It's a bit of a weird one because Phil was kind of damned if he did and damned if he didn't. I mean, if I'd been Phil, I would have basically kicked everyone out and redone the rooms.
    8:22
    Oh, I would call it Booking Gate. Yeah, it's basically, so for those that didn't, so Pinfest is the kind of UK show, Phil always tells the people who bring pinball machines about the rooms first, because obviously if you've got no room, you're not going to bring the games, and Phil needs people to bring games, right? I don't think that's unreasonable, but anyway, someone leaked it, and it leaked quite aggressively, and basically loads of people booked rooms.
    8:51
    Ahead of the opening time. Ahead of when you should have done. Yeah. And candidly, I would argue it was a bit of a piss take. I personally would have kicked everybody out and started again. But, you know, I see it both ways. No matter what we do, it's going to be aggro. But I did say at the time, jokingly, that I might just have a microphone and a camera whilst everyone checks in and asks them what pin they've brought. I suppose we've got other controversies there, haven't we? We've had, obviously now, the two major Pimball distributors for the UK are bringing in a large number of games, and then people's own contributed games have been relegated. Yeah, so I'm kind of, I kind of think that we've kind of ended in a place that has some positive things but also a few negative things about that. I think the positive things is finally the Pimball distributors of the UK have got off the fat backsides and are doing something. I think that's good. Way to win them over there, Neil. Yeah.
    10:09
    I'm the customer, mate. Are we playing the card the customer is always right? Okay. That is not a card, mate. That is a fact of life.
    10:20
    The customer is always right. And especially in pinball, the customer is probably more right than the average hobby. Actually, that's probably not true.
    10:35
    So, Luke, and basically, I mean, it feels to me, and I don't see everything that's posted on the forum because I'm banned.
    10:45
    I wear that like a badge, badge of glory. But what I do see is that there appears to have been a pissing competition on who could bring the most pinball machines to Pinfest. And I think it's running at about 35 each, I think, is what I have heard.
    11:07
    So I'm really looking forward to 35 copies of Venom and 35 copies of Ninja Eclipse. So Scott has, for those watching in black and white, Scott has managed to break his mic mid-flow.
    11:30
    He's looking at the screen, he's clicking and clacking, he's shaking his head saying, Fucked if I know. I will continue to waffle on about Pinfest. So yeah, so the two big distributors, and actually there's a bit more to the story that meets the eye. We have got the, yeah, so basically Paul, sorry, not Paul, Phil has become a full-time Stern dealer, so he deals directly with Stern, and ElectroCoin are kind of backing up David. David, the Leggoyne, I would say, used to deal with Phil a lot, and I think they're clearly panicked, they're losing a lot of business, so I've put their money behind David, a retro arcade specialist, so the two of them are having a bit of a pissing fight on, is Scott back? He's saying hello and nope. And in effect, there's been a bit of a ding-dong around why...
    12:55
    A bit of a ding-dong, because they're bringing 70 games, it means Phil didn't need as many games. So he told a few folks that they didn't need to bring games. Now, personally speaking, that would be music to my ears because we've lost Scott and Tyler. Because the aggro of bringing games to Pinfest is massive, although I've got some help with that this year, thankfully.
    13:20
    And I obviously never get asked not to bring games because I always bring great games. I'm bringing Beetlejuice. I'm bringing Star Wars Fall of the Empire. I'm thinking about bringing Transformers. It's fantastic. And if it arrives, which I'm exceedingly unlikely and doubting,
    13:45
    the Mystery House game, I forget what it's called, something Mystery House, that the biggest mystery is when it's going to get fucking delivered. I don't know, nothing. I didn't change anything, but Riverside had lost the mic. Bizarre. Very bizarre. Anyway, I was just saying, Scott, that basically there's been a pissing fight between the two distributors.
    14:11
    I was going to say to you, I know you said at one point you were saying, oh, multiple of the same game and that, but I'll be honest with you, that I think sometimes that's probably been the biggest gripe for me. Sometimes there's like a unique title there that you want to play, Evil Dead, like you did last year, right? One game, Q's massive, never getting any on it. Dune, same problem. So I feel like whilst I agree with you, I don't want to see many of the same title that I don't want to see like desirable titles that people have played to death. I would like to see multiple Kongs. I would like to see multiple Transformers. I would like to see multiple Pokemons because I genuinely think given the number we've got, Which I think is like around 150 now. I don't mind like, you know, having... Yeah, no, I think for the new titles, a couple's not going to kill us. I don't know if that would be the case. That was kind of a bit of a gag that I... Yeah, I get it. But I think conversely though, thinking on it, I think that would be a genuine nice thing. And just a little bit more on that. It's nice to see modern titles because we've not really had that. Every time we have Pinfest, it's normally, if I'm honest with you, the same old games that everyone brings every year. And whilst I definitely appreciate everyone's effort to do that, because it is an involved effort, it's also a bit boring if you're playing the same games every year. No, and look, there's some people who just bring out the same old shit every year. Yeah. And I'm hoping that the people that feel targeted to not bring games are those. But, I mean, I also think there's some people who bring games that you look at what they've brung and they thought, are you choking me? How can you pass the red face test, bring in some game that literally turns on and explodes?
    15:56
    We actually did have a few set five, didn't we, last year? Yeah, the year before, the glorious, what was it called, Spinal Tap.
    16:10
    I just remember seeing this puff of smoke come out of the back of it and saying, woohoo! And then literally that acrid smell of toasted electronics. I hate that smell. It takes ages for it to go. I know. It gets in your throat. It's awful. But I couldn't help but chuckle when it was that. I think did Blues Brothers die last year? Maybe. Or am I thinking of the one? I can't remember, man. I'm thinking of the one. I think I might be thinking of the one at Texas. Texas, yeah. It literally did go on fire, the one at Texas. There was a coil that just cooked itself. Anyway, I mean, so the story is, is because all these two guys are bringing a lot of pins, apparently 35 each, which is, I'll tell you, moving 35 games is not to be taken lightly. It's going to be backbreaking.
    16:59
    I mean you know they going to need I mean depending on how they bring them but they going to probably need a No that aside I think David baby I sure he won mind me saying but I sure his baby is due around that period Yeah that right He told me the same thing actually Yeah, so credit to him for trying to juggle a newborn and this event. That's a lot. Yeah, I wouldn't give you any credit for that. I think it's fucking stupid. If it was me, I'd be saying bollocks to Pinfest. I'm sticking with a baby. But I would say... It's his business, though. Do you know what I mean? There's a flip side to that which is, oh, I've got to go to Pinfest, darling, you'll have to look after the baby for a few days and then you escape. Just do what I'm doing, I'm bringing mine.
    17:45
    I tell you, I remember having a discussion about someone in my office that used to come to the office five days a week and it was literally to get away from the kids. Do you know what? The amount of people that have shared stories with me with that, there was a colleague of mine where he said what he used to do is he used to sleep on a park bench in the centre of London because that was the only time he had a peace and quiet because he was so exhausted from being at home where the baby was up all the time. I think those of us that have had kids can relate to that. I'm sure everyone's got a war story. Yes, indeed. Phil's asked many pin bringers not to bring any pins. And some of them have gone, hallelujah, awesome. Because moving pins, let's face it, it's a mugs game, right? The second thing is, but some people didn't take it that way. Some people got upset. My good friend James felt that, well, hold on, we've always brung pins. We want to bring pins. I like to share what I've got with the community. And he's kind of, James has, I mean, he's basically said, well, I'm done with Pinside, sorry, Pinfest. Pinfest, yeah. I kind of get that, although I think that. He did bring some really unique games, I'm not going to lie, because he's a big fan. He's got all these stuff, right? All these stuff that we're not going to see now.
    19:12
    Hopefully, James will have a change of heart. And look, again, I think this is another reason why Phil's trying to figure out, you know, the rooms and the number of pins and trying to figure out an answer to that, Which, you know, isn't the easiest thing to solve. As someone who's, you know, ran a few big pinball events, when you find a venue that works, the effort to move or do something different is so hard. So this year, UK opens in a different venue because we're also hosting the EPC, European Pinball Championships. And honestly, the amount of effort that's caused me, I'm not sure I would do it again. Wow. It's been full on.
    19:56
    Yeah, so some people are like, rejoice, I don't have to bring any pins. Some people kind of push back, well, I'm bringing some pins because I want to flog them.
    20:07
    I struggle with people who buy pins at an event like that. Because basically, unless you wait until the last minute and they're desperate to sell them, literally all the prices there are usually awful, especially in this market. I mean, put it this way, right? If there's a pin that you want to buy at Pinfest, right? Come and talk to me and I'll give you my honest opinion on what you should pay for it. And actually whether you should buy it or not.
    20:38
    Because, you know, I'm up for being, what was it, pin detective. And really upsetting people even more. I mean, genuinely, you know, the prices, especially, like, I mean, you've got the dealers there, they'll move a little bit, but they're not going to move much more. I mean, genuinely, I don't know where the price is at the moment for a lot of used games. I mean, like, I feel that Pimball Heaven just kind of, like, set a new low for, like, Bally 90s games, right? World Cup Soccer went for, like, what was it, 20, I want to say 2200, 2500, something like that. Yep. That was with pin sound in it. It was like, oh, okay. Is this the new low? And don't get me wrong, it went quickly, so I don't know if that was the right price. That's the issue I always find with this. If a game is priced too low, it goes very quickly, and then everyone says, well, that's the price it should be at. But was that really the price that people were willing to pay for it? My shitbox of a WCS that might give you post-stress trauma or post-trauma distress, PTSD, however it is, I paid $1,800 for that, I think. Oh, did you?
    21:52
    I paid a lot less than $2,000. I don't know, maybe World Cup Soccer is a bit of a B title, isn't it? But I do, I don't know, it's a lot of money to restore it. It's quite a rare game, though. Yeah, and I like the Papa Duke games. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for those.
    22:07
    The Valley Papa Duke games are okay because you had a bunch of clueless people that helped them fix it. But yeah, I mean, I think that was probably a little bit cheaper. For me, World Cup soccer, you know, players' condition. I thought given the fact of the, you know, time of year, the football and all that stuff, I don't know. Yeah, I think it was a little bit cheap, but it was probably a trade-in. Phil's probably sold it for what he got it traded in for.
    22:36
    Oh yeah, I imagine he just wanted a shot of it and he was just like, that's going to be a quick sale.
    22:41
    I've seen that happen a lot recently though, right? We've seen quite an influx, I think, of games being sold from the distributors instead of from people now because people are just trading in. Yeah. Because they don't want to sell on the market. I mean, this is the thing that's a bit nuts about that. We're seeing people, so people are trying to sell, you know, I'll use an example, Stranger Things for 10 grand or whatever it was. I can't remember how much it was. I think it was 10, yeah. They're trading and then the dealer puts it up for 10 grand and they can't sell it either. I mean, I was looking, it did seem that David in particular had a lot of, I mean, he seemed to spam the forum. Although conversely, I've heard my Metallica's sold. Yes, I heard that as well. Yeah, that's gone. I heard someone buy it who'd had a Metallica Premium before.
    23:29
    I think so, yeah. I mean, that's the weird part though. It's like they could have bought it direct from me, but I suppose they get a warranty though with the resale. That's the one maybe thing that maybe sways people. I suppose you don't really factor that in, right? You and I, it's different. If something breaks, we've already discussed this before, we can fix ourselves. But for other people, maybe it's more peace of mind, right?
    23:48
    Yeah, it seems, well, maybe, but I mean, in theory, I mean, I don't know if you really get much of a warranty boost, even if you buy it, basically, but yeah, I would definitely think that. It's interesting times in the market regardless, right? I genuinely don't know where the stuff is value-wise now.
    24:12
    It surprises me every time I see something come up and I'm like, yeah, wow, that went at that price. Okay, cool. God, that's cheap. I do think personally that World Cup soccer was cheap, but maybe I'm just looking at it a bit too from a Bally 90s lover. I don't know.
    24:29
    Yeah, I mean, I think this is the thing. Traces are just down across the board. That's true. I don't know. You know, look, some games have probably got a little bit of upside to them, like, you know, Evil Dead last year.
    24:45
    Harry Potter seems to be, it's down a little, but it's not up. People say, no, I'm going to flip this, and it hasn't been enough.
    24:57
    To be fair, though, I haven't seen any Evil Deads come up. I think they obviously change hands in the inner circles, but I don't see them changing hands on the forum. I saw polls after one, but I don't know, it's hard to really know what they're going for and whether they're worth it. But my sense is, yeah, I mean, Evil Dead, I get people asking me if I want to sell mine so far or not, but I have to say Evil Dead.
    25:39
    I've had mine for about a year now. Yeah. And the reliability is better, but it's still not where it needs to be a year in.
    25:48
    Okay. And the weak point is the electronics. So the driver board, frankly, it's junk. And I'm not having to go spooky on that. They've made it a lot better, but every kind of issue that I'm getting has some relation to that board or the coils, or there not being enough self-protect in the game so that if a coil does lock on, that it doesn't take half the game with it. I find that's really good with the fast hardware because obviously I've had to program with that quite unfortunately too much in my view from my own brew perspective. But the amount of protection you get to stop you like, you know, inadvertently frying something is quite well built. I can see why the boutiques like Prudetti and Barrels of Fun switched to it because whilst it's expensive, it seems to be quite reliable. I never hear anybody complaining about a blown IO board, which is like their equivalent of a node board, as an example. So I don't know if Spooky just needs to revisit. It's hard, right, because they've built their own electronics, their own architecture, so to speak. So I don't know if they want to try and go down having a third party providing boards for them because it will drive up their costs. They just probably just need to figure out what they're doing wrong, I suppose, with their boards and just make further improvements. You'll find out, I suppose, whether or not Beetlejuice will have improvements, right? Yeah, I mean, I don't think...
    27:22
    So Beetlejuice is the same hardware. Okay. There's no difference on it, but... Yeah, I mean, it's kind of weird because some Beetlejuices are starting to arrive. Mine is ready, actually. It's ready to be shipped. Yeah. And I know that you've passed on yours, Scott. I have. Yeah, I had mine and it was ready to go. And I just said, do you know what? So much time. The problem with the UK has always been this. It takes so bloody long. I've paid it. It's all fully paid. But then I just said, if you can find another buyer, just let them buy it. And they were like, yeah, I've got a buyer already lined up. So do you want your spot gone? And I said, just, yeah, I'll get a different one. So I've gone with Jaws 50th instead, only because I fancied another Elwyn game. It's been a while since I've had one, to be fair. I think the last one I had was Jurassic Park.
    28:21
    Epic choice. I mean, it's hard to find a game that is anywhere near as good as Jaws. And it frees up some cash as well, because obviously Jaws 50th isn't the price of Beetlejuice. Yeah. So I feel like, yeah, it's kind of like, I've had a couple of times where I've just gone like, do I really want this game or not? And I've really been on the fence on it. I think the problem is that it's a big gamble, right? Because the problem with the UK is we don't get to try games before you've bought them,
    28:53
    which means you just have to kind of take a gamble to think, am I going to want to keep this as soon as I play it? And I've been watching the game develop and I just, I don't know. Part of me just feels like it hasn't got the same, what's the word I'm looking for? The same kind of desirability that I had when I wanted Evil Dead. I still regret not having that game. And I feel like Beelgeuse, I don't know. It's hard to say. Maybe I'll regret it. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think you made a good choice. I mean, so I've managed to pick one up with a very special deal, which is really the only reason why I bought it. Yeah. It's coming from an amazing process, but I don't think the game's as great as, it's definitely not as good as Evil Dead.
    29:52
    Right. Spot wise for sure, code wise, I would say no. I also have to face reality that that topper would have probably scared the living hell out of my child.
    30:05
    I haven't seen much in the way of, what would I say, there's not much been in the way of recent hype around Beetlejuice. No, I feel like it's peated out a bit.
    30:21
    Sorry? It's almost like it's a 20-year-old title. Yeah. So, you know, and I was just trying to find it on Pinball Info, but it's fallen down like miles down the old list.
    30:43
    And there's a few other people trying to get out of it as well. So, yeah, I mean, I'll have it put in the club for a bit, see where it is, and see where we go. I honestly think it was a little bit overhyped from the usual kind of like creator crowd. I think they picked it up to be something bigger than it was. I don't think it is an Evil Dead beater. I think Evil Dead is still, for me, their flagship title.
    31:09
    No, I mean, I think it was also picked up by people who are trying to flip them. Let's be honest. There's a bunch of spooky guys who suddenly saw, you know, after a while with Evil Dead where the flipping started kind of late.
    31:29
    You know, I think everyone, there's a bunch of folks in the UK that had Evil Dead's ordered and none of them have got them still. They've sold them all because they were able to sell them for more money than... Ah, hyping, yeah, okay, yeah.
    31:44
    Bill just might surprise me, I don't know, it's hard to say, right? I can't comment on the game because all I can do is watch videos and sort of watch it from a distance. That is not the same. I don't know if I like a game or not when I play it, but unfortunately I'll never be able to do that, I don't think, because we're not going to see a Beetlejuice at the show. I'd be very surprised if we did. Maybe we will, I don't know. I'm not going to be well, I'm bringing mine. Oh, nice. Well, there we go. Maybe then I'll live to regret it. Who knows then? I think Phil's bringing one. I think he got his demo one. Oh, the showroom machine, okay. I think so, because he's got...
    32:22
    I noticed Gonzo had done a review on it, so I assume it's that one, so I think that one will be there as well. Okay, that's good to know. Basically, so... So, let's move on to Sonic then. Yes. What's your views? It looks like one of the most boring pins that Steve Ritchie's ever come out with, candidly. It reminded me a lot of Black Knight Sword of Rage with that upper acrylic playfield. Yeah, for me, it reminds me of World Poker Tour.
    32:51
    Oh, really? Yes, well, the upper playfield for sure. I mean, I think it's not awful, but it doesn't look like it's a huge amount of fun.
    33:02
    I got to admit, I expected more of an Elwyn flow to it. It felt, initially when I watched people playing it, it felt bricky and it didn't feel like, you know, unless you were really good at your shots, it didn't look like it had the flow because even though it had a fan layout and you got into the upper playfield, the upper playfield's got such a wide flipper gap, you've got to be bloody good with your shots to keep it up there. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I just... You know, it's deliberate so that you don't have it up there all the time where... True, yeah. They've kind of learned the pain of that. I mean, so they had it at the Custard Pinball Club, pinball factory, and the overwhelming feedback I heard from people that played it was that it was boring.
    33:55
    Oh dear. So, I mean, I haven't played it, so I think that's a pinch of salt. The more I look at Kong, right, I think I would like to rescind some of my comments. I look at that and I go, that is a flowy game. I watch people play and I like god damn you can chain shots till the cows come home on that I really expected that from Sonic I think for me chaining shots is what I imagined a Sonic game would look like Yeah yeah I mean I agree I was expecting that And there a couple of mechs that they pulled out This is kind of, the mech is kind of, it looks like a magnet, but it's not quite a magnet. Like the ramp for the loop-de-loop, yeah? Where it sticks on a magnet and you can ramp it up. What? It just didn't feel well. I mean, I'd love to be wrong, because I am a Steve Ritchie fan. Sure. You know, and I think Out and John was an amazing game.
    34:50
    I mean, it still looks, I love the artwork and I like the, what do you want to call it, like the mini dot matrix rings around, you know, that's beautiful work. I love that. Some of the things there, but the switches look amazing. Yeah. Team integration seems good. Yeah, but ultimately it's ball and flippers, right? If the ball and flippers just doesn't work, it's not great. On the flip side, it's the only game I've played since, well, I played it before in the last podcast, but I've had a bit more time to play it, so my Pokemon turned up. Actually, I sat in my shed for three weeks because I had nowhere to put it.
    35:39
    And I've still, if I pan, hold on, if I pan a little bit on my camera, I am out of space. You are crammed in there, aren't you? I've got Jurassic Park here, I've got, what else is there? Have you put the Cactus mod on yet? I can see something on top of that. It's awesome. So the code has made a better game of it? Way better. A million times better.
    36:10
    I've got Transformers. There we go. It's come back to me. So, yeah, I moved my Attack for Mars into my storage unit so I could bring in, and I took a couple of, I put another game in my garage.
    36:32
    And I had an event at my house, tournament at my house, where I brought Pokemon and Transformers in. And the feedback was very, on Transformers, very positive. Pokemon, I think there's a good game they're waiting to get out. It's not an awful game. I think the code's just not where it needs to be. So is it like a good game layout wise and a bad game code wise? Was that a fair comment? I think it's a good game. I think layout wise, and again, I know on Pinside you read there's people having lots of issues with the ball coming off rails and stuff. And same for Transformers. Both my Pokemon and Transformers work 100% of the box. The Transformers on the drop targets, they are bricky because they're new. I need to adjust the springs on it so you get air balls off them. But every new game from every manufacturer has a bit of that.
    37:35
    My take on Pokemon is I think that can become quite a fun game with the right code. There's all sorts of talk about online Pokemon stuff. That would be cool if they can do some proper integration. Yeah, it just kind of feels like that's kind of got a bit stuck, whereas the code for Transformers seems quite mature for the age of the game compared to other games. But the thing about Transformers, man, it is nostalgia. Smoop 2 Nuts.
    38:17
    Actually, I need to test this, but when you power it up for the first time, it plays this slightly longer theme, the Transformer.
    38:29
    Or something like that, is it? So they've got the official theme, and then Jerry, who did the sound on it, he's kind of created a few more Transformers-like. Kind of background sort of stuff. The call-outs from Megatron are fucking hilarious.
    38:53
    You just laugh because he's, every bit is kind of, him and Skeletor from He-Man, they always had these funny comments in the cartoon and they've got them in the game. Some of the shots on Transformers are just like chef's kiss, man. There's a shot at the Grimlock show. Now, Grimlock, lots of people have said he looks horrible. Actually, if you look at the cartoon and compare Grimlock to the cartoon, it's not that big a difference. I think it's more, and we'll probably touch on this in a sec, it's more the Autobots do nothing and the Decepticons do something. Yeah, I mean... You've got the left side, cake toppers, the right side, animatronics.
    39:43
    So, I think, I mean, clearly... I'm hoping modders will, like, step in and kind of, like, equal that now. So, clearly, Stern were trying to do something... Oh, you can tell, even when Ralph showed the model and he lifted it out, I was like, yeah, You can see the kind of husk of what was supposed to be there. Yeah, but this is the thing I appreciate with Stern. There are some dumb companies who would have gone with something that breaks, right? Sure. Stern thinking, look, we want to make this work. We can't make it work right. And in that case, we're going to... I just think they should have got rid of the chicken arms. Because you've seen... I mean, I saw Ralph's video. Yeah, that 3D print thing is pretty cool to make his arms straight. I would have just done that, personally. A bit of extra work, right? But it sums the whole da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
    40:39
    I know that I think Paul Boucher, who does a few mods, is working on a Transformers mod. In fact, actually, let me just get this.
    40:56
    He's running off away from his mic, by the way. Sorry. He's getting a box. I've got a box. It's got a box of tricks. I've been dying to show this now that it's available. So I've been helping. So this is from Mojo Mods. So Mojo Mods, I think he is the best mod maker on the planet, right? Sure. So I have got his, and you have to buy this mod, mate. I have got his chum chucking brody. Yeah. Do you know what? I've put myself on the list for that. Yeah, that is just one of the best mods. He's based in the UK, right? Yeah, he's a British guy, Paul.
    41:40
    He works for Toy Company. Oh, Paul's is Paul. My bad. Now I get it. Toy Company. So, hold on. I just don't want to dump caping chips all over my carpet. But he has been working on, in fact, let me see if I can show it. Uh, uh, uh, um, I can't see because of my, my, uh, rig, but behind, I've got a different Kong in the topper. Um, okay. And I'm, I'm going to, so he's now done the Kong replacement. Here we go. Uh, okay. Yeah. And, and, um, but it's, let me, unfortunately I should have, I should have assembled this, but. It's got, look at this, the, I'll full assemble it so that people can see this.
    42:39
    It's got chains on it. Oh, nice. And, and, let me just get the last piece. So it's a really easy. Do you know the Brody Orca kind of mod that he's done then? Yeah. Has he sculpted the figurine? Is that what it is? Yeah. He sculpted it, but so he is, oops, someone's trying to call me.
    43:06
    Oh, inappropriate. Yeah, I'm just going to get rid of that, but I have a feeling they'll call me back. This is the other arm, yep, this is the other arm of Kong. Oh, okay, it's got the damsel in it, yeah, okay. Yeah, very cool. And so I'm going to be putting that on this weekend.
    43:27
    And that's specifically for the topper, is it? No, this is for the game. Okay, so that sits in the tram area sort of thing. Yeah, so hello, little guy. You need to come in because Nelia and Mum's going ice skating. That's the reason I'm skating here because... Okay, I'm going to come in in 10 minutes, okay? Yeah, but I think they're going until... Yeah, okay, I'll be in in 10 minutes. All right? I won't be long, little guy. Is that your call then? That's my friend Scott. Say hello. Hello. Hi. Hey, Pinball is great.
    44:03
    I don't like him. Right, go on. Love it. I'm going to see you some photos later on, little guy, all right? What photos? From your sports day.
    44:16
    Just to show that we record this without any editing or... Yeah, yeah. I'll show it to you later on. You go in the house. No, I'm not going to show it to him. It's like that BBC News meme where the kid comes in, he's on BBC News Live and the kid comes in. Anyway, so Paul has done an every job. So Paul, his attention to detail is nuts. So I've also got, on my Pulp Fiction, I've got this chopper that you just put on. One mod and it just adds so much to the game, right? Because he did the Godzilla stuff, right? Godzilla, so yeah, so basically he did, let me see if I can share this, he did Atomic Godzilla, right there, you can see it moving, one for the top one and one for the game. Yeah. The game, I mean the Godzilla game thing, if you've got a Godzilla and you do not have Atomic Godzilla, you're a fucking idiot, that's it, because it's so good. Hold on. You may not come in right now because they're going, because their, mum, mum and me is going off the mum, finished it. Okay, I'm gonna, I'll be there, but Nanny's there, right? No, she, she's gone out. Okay, well you can stay in here then if you want to stay in here, okay? Okay, I'll be in in a minute then, little guy.
    45:41
    Um, the world is in it. You love it. Yeah, I do. So Paul kind of teased that he is working on a Transformers mod, which I am super excited about. I think he should focus on Grimlock first. That would be pretty cool. We need a – if he can do something with Optimus Prime, he should. I imagine he's going to work probably in with Stumbler, right, on that. I don't know. I'm not speaking for him. There's a lot of the electronics. We should cover that, by the way. Hasn't he done a partnership with Multimorphic? Yes. Exclusive partnership or something like that? It's not exclusive, I don't think. Oh, it's not exclusive. Okay. Well, if it's exclusive, he's a nutter because they sell about five games a year.
    46:28
    And I'd be feeling worried about the Stumbler cats going hungry. Yeah, I saw that and kind of chuckled. My first reaction was, oh, that's good. You know, five mods a year. It's a nice bit of extra fun. I'm sure I'm going to get beaten up for that. You will. Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, Mother Morfuck have got a new game coming out. Some people believe, I think you said it was, what was it? So Dungeon Keeper Carl, or whatever it's called. Dungeon Crawler Carl. Yeah, Dungeon Crawler Carl, sorry. It's a big book, apparently, a very popular series. I'm going to have a bit of a rant, right? Here's what I don't need in my life. There's a whole bunch of bozos on Facebook saying that the next game's great, I've seen it and you haven't. Oh, I hate that. I'm with you. Who in marketing thinks that's a great idea? No one. To be fair, I had to go with the guy at Electric Back for that because I just said to him, can you stop? I said, we don't need another shill. I'm just bored of it. Stop. It's like Predator. Remember Predator? Yeah, I don't. Honestly. Oh, here's the game. And oh, here's like a little logo. I'm like, no, stop being assholes. You honestly do nothing. Do you know what I loved? When Labyrinth dropped, it was just like, boom, here's the game, guys. Out of nowhere. Shadow drop it. Shadow drop it. That is what I love. That would be my favourite. So yeah, we've got a new game from then. We've got Totan. Yes. If you want to buy the most boring game on the planet. But it's looking nice. See, me and you are so different. I would love that game. I just don't think the price is right. All you do is hit the freaking genie bottle, man, constantly, and you get like a massive score. I have seen you can score abuse the hell out of that, yeah. I mean, I think they've fixed it. I think there's some versions. In the 1.5 code, they've made it a bit better, yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, I'm going to have a play of it, but I'm just like, nah. I think it's a beautiful looking game, though. I've done a great job with the lighting, with the lamps, you know, the lighting, I mean, around the ramps. You know what, though? I don't like the finish on it. Are you on about the Flyland design redesign? Is that what you mean? No, no, no. I think both of them are nice. No, I'm talking about the armor. So you get it in black or you get it in purple. Sure, okay. I want it in silver.
    48:54
    Okay. Do you mean like a standard stainless steel option? Yeah, because I think that looks great. And I think the black one looks awful, mate. I think it absolutely looks awful. I don't know what made them... I mean, I've never seen... Have you ever seen on your travels a Toton with black armor? No. No, exactly. So, and, you know, I mean, the armor that goes with Toton is... It's kind of weird, actually, when you think about it. That's very easy for them to do because those... The rails are in production still. Lock bars are in production. Legs are in production. Easy. If I got one, I would be either migrating it to the kind of gold finish that you did for my Theatre of Magic, which I think would look epic. Yeah, it would, wouldn't it? I wouldn't do... I'll be honest with you, I'll get one when it's on the second hand market. I'm hoping enough people buy it. I want a Totem. My wife is like, she hates it. She's just like, I don't see when you see the fascination with it. But then she hates Circus Voltaire and I like that game. Yes, I mean, that's getting remade as well. Yeah, that's why mine went, although that one behind me is just a cabinet, it's not the original game now. I sold mine to Davey, who I imagine to get. I imagine he's making mods for it, yeah.
    50:16
    Well, he'll sell a lot more to them than he will of multi-morphic mods. Yeah, true. Hold on, let me, let me, let me, I only need one hand for the number of sales of multimorphic mods. You're so, you're so mean, man. I've already winded them up about this too.
    50:34
    You get the Sesame Street count out. One mod, two mods, three mods. To be fair, I would, I, I'd prefer that because he's so behind on his other stuff. Davey, sort it out. I want my Balrog Lord of the Rings. It's been a while now, mate. Come on. Balrog, Lord of the Rings. I mean, he'll be making them until he's dead, basically. I'm so desperate for that mod. I love my Lord of the Rings. I do what? Every once in a while, when I put a game up for sale and they see it in the background shot, there'll be maybe half of it and they'll be like, you're selling that? You're selling that? Yeah. And I'm like, no.
    51:14
    I get it. Also, I want your opinion on this. Here's a quick one. Wow. Will they? Yeah, I know. What my opinion Behave Behave Do you think they ever remake Lord of the Rings I do not think so I don't either. Everyone seems to be so convinced that one's coming, but I just don't see it happening. I think there's too many challenges with a license now. Agreed.
    51:43
    Okay, you need to stay there and be quiet then, little guy, until I'm finished. I'm not going to be long, okay? Okay.
    51:50
    So, that's my grandson, Theo, who's been in and out of the podcast today. Yes. This is four years from now, Scott. This is what we'll be doing at your house. Mate, yeah.
    52:01
    So, yeah, I mean, I think when you look at what's happening with the licensing of it and how they've been licensing that, it feels challenging.
    52:14
    Agreed. The only way a new one comes out. As if someone redoes Lord of the Rings again. Oh, don't do that. Yeah, I don't think the world needs that, frankly. No.
    52:27
    But I think that's the... They're already doing that new, I don't know where it sits in the timeline, but the Hunt for Gollum, which I imagine is somewhere before the Fellowship of the Rings? I don't know. Hunt for Gollum, you know what I'd love is like that kind of movie where I could just kind of fly in in some sort of craft. So they're all trying to find them with axes and magic and I just fly in with a heat-seeking missile and the movie's over. Actually, I've got some movie homework for you. Have you seen Hail Mary?
    53:00
    Remind me what the film's about? I can't say it, mate. Oh, yes. It's about the astronaut with the alien. Yes, I have. Yeah, good film. Epic movie. Yeah, I loved it. If you haven't seen it and you're watching, trust me on this one. I think it's the same guy that did The Martian, author of the book. Oh, yeah. Very, very, very, very good. I much prefer horror movies, but that was good. But the recent horror movie I liked, Obsession, that was good. Yes, I've heard that that's very good. Yeah, you can have them.
    53:36
    So, the... So what's your latest game then? Your game was Transformers. Mine's been D&D, so Dungeons & Dragons. I don't know, I'm a little bit mixed on that one if I'm honest with you. I mean, what's your thoughts on that game? How do you find it? Because I find it a little frustrating sometimes that if my character isn't a high enough level on something, it acts as a bit of a barrier to progressing. That's D&D for you, right? I know, but I find that part of it a little bit conflicting if I'm honest with you. Yeah, I mean, you know, D&D is a bit choppy wood sometimes, right? Yeah. I like the game. I like the way it's laid out. I like the shots. The shots are good, yeah. However, in saying that, I've got one here, and I've played more Transformers than I have played D&D. Oh, yeah, but it's the newest thing, right? That makes sense. But even so, it's not a game that I naturally gravitate towards because it needs lots of – it needs lots – I mean, this is a problem. But in a world where we don't have a lot of time, that game needs a lot of time. Yeah, D&D, man, one of my games went on for like 35 minutes. It doesn't sound like a lot to you probably, but for me, that's just like, I can't play rounds like that consistently. That takes you to so far, but you've got more and more and more. Yeah, it just keeps going. If you want a game for longevity, that's probably... Yeah, I think if you're like a one-house, one-pin game, I mean, I think D&D's kind of like that. Good game's going to be deep enough for you.
    55:06
    100%. I mean, it is huge, and I think they've still got a couple of code updates to come out for it. It's on 1.01 now, but I mean, to be fair, it's fairly code complete, right? It is massive, basically. Transformers, I mean, the Grimlock shot is awesome.
    55:27
    The way that you get the lock shot at the back is quite cool. I think all the shots in it are great. Some of them are tricky. I like Elliot does a great layout to make a couple of tricky shots.
    55:42
    The ramp shots are tricky, but it flows you well. The nostalgia level on its side as well. When you hear that music and you hear Optimus and you hear Megatron, it is like you've been back to being eight years old. And begging that Santa brings you a Transformer for Christmas because it is just awesome.
    56:03
    And actually, I mean, linked to that, Elliot's other game, John Wick, Ganyu Code came out for that. That game is outstanding now. It is one of the best games I've ever played. Super hard. Hopefully someone brings a John Wick for the show then. Hopefully, yeah. Well, I think if Phil and David are bringing 70 games each, or 70 games in total, one of them is bound to be a John Wick, I would have thought. Yeah, you'd think, right. Well, maybe send them a message. Yeah, Pokemon, again, I think the shots are good. It's flowy. Feels like a Gomez game. And yeah, there's nothing bad about it except it just feels very samey. Like every game feels like it's the same game.
    56:59
    And they just need to do it. I mean, I would argue that about John Wick when it first came out. And I think Stern will come good. Actually, last month, Stern put out an update for every game that they've got, which was massive and painful. Yeah, I think, to be fair, I know they were trying to do that, I think, for their big 40th anniversary, right? But lessons learned, I would say, from that is maybe stagger them out, and then you won't have to bug fix a ton of games after you've realised those problems. Yeah, there's a couple of minor things. It was small things on Elvira like the launch button light wasn't working but there was another one at Iron Maiden that was kind of game breaking. Iron Maiden, yeah. If you had a premium LE on Iron Maiden I think it stopped the game working. I don't know about that because I've got Disco Maiden on mine so I never update it.
    57:54
    It's running some ancient version of code. What else to say? Yeah, so two games I'm waiting for Beetlejuice. Mine is ready. I'm just going to get it shipped to... Oh, we should quickly discuss Barrels of Fun, the rumour. Yes, Barrels of Fun apparently are doing a rock pin. Well, it's apparently a music pin. Yeah.
    58:20
    That's the latest rumour. I'm hoping it's a remake of Dolly Parton. I'm fearing it's going to be like Muppets Christmas Carol or something like that. That would be awesome. What are you on about, man? I don't know, man. After having Labyrinth, I don't want another Jim Henson game. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I mean, yeah. Labyrinth didn't do it for me, I'm afraid. No, it didn't for me either. I mean, Dune for me is still their best name. Dune is their leader for me. I don't know, until I play Winchester anyway. I have to say, I was not expecting still to be waiting for this game, Winchester. Or Winchester, yeah, I think they're on game 250 now, so they're getting there. Yeah, so there's another 200 to go, so basically 200 to go, right? What is it? July, they've made 200, what game are they up to? 250. So they got, so I mean that's potentially another. As of last week that was, so maybe, yeah. A 12 or 6 months? I mean, crazy. Well, they've stopped producing Dunes now, so at the moment they're no longer making two games in the production line, so I don't know if that means they're just going to double their efforts on the Winchesters now or if they're going to start the production on the next game. I heard that they'd moved to doing... I heard that they'd stopped making Dunes a while ago, but I don't know if that's the case. I don't know. I mean, they were on games, they finished around game 6, 7, 6, something like that. That was the final number for Dune, which wasn't too bad considering its initial poor sales. Well, they made the same mistake of talking about a game before it was ready.
    60:07
    And, you know, anyone who thinks it's good to tease stuff is not good to tease stuff. When you've got your game and when it's ready, you'll launch it. That's it. And if you don't do that, you'll just end up hurting your product.
    60:22
    It's kind of, even as a pseudo-marketer, even I know that. And what, you know, like I said, Multimorphic and Predator and even Jersie Jack were pushing out a little bit with Sonic. Oh, Steve, what was it? The King is back. He was back for Elton John.
    60:44
    I mean, is he back again? Where did he go? He's double back. Yeah, exactly. He's like, I'm back again. They need to remove the revolving door at Jersey Jack or something if that's the way it works. I mean, I just, I'm like, who in the world have they got doing the marketing for this? I don't know. There's weird choices in Pimball World, right? We've said this quickly already before, but I just find it odd that they overhype and tease and they build this, like, weird momentum up on games. I'm just bored of that. I just rather see that like you can do your teaser trailer like Stern do and then a week later release your game. And also it's like, I mean, I think, you know, if you want some marketing advice, just send 10 bucks to Kaneda. He'll tell you what to do. And like, you know, that'll be it. You'll get the best advice you can get. Agreed. So one other thing we wanted to talk about. Oh, yes, very briefly. So the good news is you've got a Jaws coming. The other brief thing I wanted to talk about was a lot of folks coming out with pinball apps that are made by Claude and his band of hooligans. So I'm a big AI fan and it's kind of my job.
    62:03
    And basically, these people are bringing out... Oh, it's like... What is it? Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. So, yeah, so a lot of these apps coming out, and here's the challenge with them, right? A lot of these apps are pinging other websites for data. Okay. So, you know, I was hearing there's a couple of apps, Pimball Map and Matchplay, who are having to put a lot of effort in to restrict the use of their APIs because they're basically getting Hoover down. And I mean, my response to both of them was like, well, just charge them for it and stop the madness because they're pulling, you know, they're pulling data that isn't theirs to re-grant their app that literally looks like it was written by a monkey.
    62:57
    Vive coders, man, they're everywhere. I mean, don't get me wrong, you can vibe code and my team do it, but we've got proper coders that know how to kind of optimize what comes out and know what's good and what's bad. Some of the stuff coming out, I mean, anyone who's a coder and isn't using AI, honestly, you're dead. Because the expectations around that are way, way... They want faster turnaround times now. Yeah, I mean, it's unbelievable. I know there's some people in the world that don't want to hear about AI, but the stark reality is it's outstanding. The latest Claw, which you can't use anymore, actually, I was able to use it for a while before. Oh yeah, it wasn't restricted by the US government, wasn't it? It banned it, probably with good reason, but ultimately the quality that that thing put out was out of this world. All you have to do with Claw is sometimes when you're using it, it'll actually lie to you. I mean, barefaced lie. It's kind of funny. And then, so I was working on a bit of code with it. And not only did it lie, it changed a test so that it looked like the test passed.
    64:13
    And I was like, I was looking at this thinking, OMG, did it really do that? So basically, if you Google, there's like a way that you can avoid Claude lying to you by just the way you use the problems. When you figure it out, it's good to go. But, I mean, and people say, I can't lie to you. Let me tell you, we are using it for high-end networking code that has got no room for crapness. I mean, we're pushing millions of packets through these devices and this stuff works. We're doing routing updates, all kinds of signaling traffic and the stuff coming out of Claude, it just works.
    65:03
    So if you're in that space, you can resist it and probably be washing dishes at some point in the future Or you can embrace it and be a leader of it and drive it across your team and help your teams basically. Your camera's died. My camera dies. Well look, we can finish on that anyway because I think your grandson was getting it. My grandson is playing a game now on his iPad. He won't play any of the pinball machines. No, we've already heard that. He doesn't find pinball interesting. I'm going to go lock him in a cupboard now. I'm just kidding little guy, I'm just kidding.
    65:45
    Yeah, so you're on for Pinfest? I am, yeah. We've bought the ear defenders, I'm not even joking, we have bought baby ear defenders and then he won't be in the main room. We just have to kind of rotate, so he'll be outside and then my wife will go in when she wants to play and then I'll go in and look after him. Remember folks, we have got some... Crazy stuff to do on Stalbo, which I am doing again. The leader of it. It's Shadow, right? You're bringing Shadow? Of course. There's no other game fit for Stalbo.
    66:21
    It will be Shadow. It will be the Shadow. I will be armed with my mic and my short wit. And the occasional bang of the game for people that I don't like. Sorry, just kidding. I like everybody. But yeah, it's going to be great. Just a couple of shout outs before we go. Pimberg is soon in the US. So is Papa World Championships in Chicago, which I'm going to. And then we've got the UK Open towards the end of September. We sold roughly 230 tickets. We sold 150 tickets in two minutes. I saw 140 tickets in two minutes. It was a bit messy. The scalpers were quick. Yeah, and we're looking forward to it. It's going to be a massive gig.
    67:13
    And with that bombshell, Scott, my grandson has just pressed the start button on. There you go, straight into Transformers. What a segue. Because it was on. Yeah.
    67:30
    But, yeah, so it's a bit noisy. But yeah, look, look forward to seeing you at Pinfest. Look forward to seeing everyone at Pinfest. We will do a Pinfest special somehow, and I'll try and lock my grandson in. So we'll do a Pinfest special ahead of it.
    67:50
    And yeah, we can, yeah. On that, Kong says goodbye. Bye-bye. And see you soon, Scott. Yes, see you soon. Take care, mate. Goodbye to all of our wonderful listeners, especially, especially Tony. Special shout out for anyone called Tony.
    68:18
    And on that bombshell, we will end it there. Thanks, everybody. See you. Look for our special, the week of PINFest.
    68:27
    We'll have some exciting news about something, I'm sure. Adios, amigos. Bye-bye.