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The Pinball Show Ep 163: Metallica Remastered, Alice In Wonderland, Space Hunt, Harry Potter, Tony Hawk, Saw, Ninja Eclipse, & More!

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 16m·analyzed·Oct 22, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern announces Metallica Remastered studio release with packed Q4 lineup; hosts analyze design and production strategy.

Summary

The Pinball Show discusses Stern Pinball's Q4 2024 lineup including the just-announced Metallica Remastered (a studio-tier remaster with new art, LCD integration, mechanics, and 500-unit LE), upcoming releases of Uncanny X-Men Premium, Jurassic Park Pro, Godzilla Premium color and 70th anniversary editions, and the surprise return of Star Wars Comic editions in December. Hosts analyze game design decisions (no Pro model for Metallica), production capacity, and market dynamics, while reflecting on Chicago Pinball Expo attendance and community reception.

Key Claims

  • Uncanny X-Men LE sold out with 811 units sold

    high confidence · Zach Minney, The Pinball Show, discussing Stern production updates

  • Metallica Remastered LE (500 units) sold out almost instantaneously, with dealer waitlist 4x longer than allocation

    high confidence · Zach Minney reporting dealer response and his own allocation experience

  • Stern promised no more Godzilla Premium color runs until 2025, but announced November 2024 runs—breaking that promise

    high confidence · Zach Minney states he predicted this and calls it 'another broken stern promise'

  • Star Wars Comic Pro and Premium editions returning in December after extended absence due to licensing issues

    high confidence · Zach Minney announcement of surprise December release

  • Metallica Remastered is a Spike 2 system game, not Spike 3

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis confirm earlier rumor was false; this is confirmed Spike 2

  • Seth Davis (Stern CEO) stated Q4 2023 was weaker than desired, driving focus on packed Q4 2024

    high confidence · Zach citing dealer seminar comments from Seth Davis

  • Metallica Remastered has no Pro model; only Premium and LE versions

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis discuss design decision to force profitable sales by skipping Pro

  • Metallica Remastered is an 11-12 year old game being remastered with new art by Reese Cooper instead of Dirty Donnie

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis discussing original game age and new artist attribution

  • Stern Alley Arcade sign now $3,500 (down from $10,000 historical price) but mostly plastic instead of metal

    high confidence · Zach Minney reporting accessory pricing and material composition

  • Metallica Remastered features 20+ songs at start, 8+ additional unlockable songs, including 72 Seasons, Hardwired, and others

Notable Quotes

  • “Where in the hell is the code to John Wick? Like, this is me being, I'm supposed to be selling these things, but. Where's the code?”

    Zach Minney @ early in episode — Frustration with delayed John Wick code updates affecting dealer confidence and sales pitch

  • “Dennis Creasel, he's kind of S-level when it comes to pinball media and popularity and influencer base. He's diva-esque now. He's a divo.”

    Zach Minney @ mid-episode — Humorous self-referential commentary on Dennis's status in pinball community; establishes banter dynamic

  • “This is a jam-packed Q4... More so than probably the catalog of most manufacturers in total. Just that little bundle.”

    Zach Minney @ discussing Q4 lineup — Highlights Stern's production volume and market dominance in holiday season

  • “The problem, again, from their perspective, is the pro basically gave you everything that you would want with Metallica. So if your plan is I want to force more profitable sales, which, of course, are premium and LE models, then let's just not make a pro at all.”

    Dennis Creasel @ analyzing design strategy — Critical perspective on Stern's profit-driven design decision to eliminate Pro tier

  • “It's a superior version to the original in basically every way. Visually... they took everything that they learned from the last one. They've added more features. They've improved the build quality.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Metallica Remastered assessment — Technical endorsement of remaster quality despite reservations about business model

  • “This is a skull, blood, crossbones, and werewolves, and spiders, snakes. This is gnarly. This is so much more what Metallica is.”

    Zach Minney @ discussing Reese Cooper artwork — Positive reception of new artist's aesthetic direction over legacy Dirty Donnie art

  • “Seth Davis said, yeah... I think this would have sold 1,000 easy. He's like, but we're really trying to take feedback from our consumer base as well as you dealers.”

    Zach Minney — Reveals Stern's intentional supply constraint strategy and demand management approach

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonSeth DavispersonStern PinballcompanyJohn BorgpersonLyman SheetspersonRaymond DavidsonpersonReese Cooperperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Metallica Remastered officially announced as studio-tier release with comprehensive mechanical and software updates; 500-unit LE sold out almost instantaneously with dealer demand 4x allocation

    high · Zach: 'probably one of the quickest sellouts we've seen from a Stern Pinball product in years. It was almost instantaneous... our list was like four times longer'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern eliminated Pro model for Metallica Remastered to force profitable Premium/LE-only sales; hosts frame as deliberate strategy to eliminate lower-margin option

    high · Dennis: 'if your plan is I want to force more profitable sales, which, of course, are premium and LE models, then let's just not make a pro at all'

  • $

    market_signal: Stern intentionally limited Metallica Remastered LE to 500 units to retain value and preserve scarcity despite Seth Davis acknowledging 1,000 would sell; dealer feedback confirms demand far exceeds allocation

    high · Zach: 'Seth Davis said... I think this would have sold 1,000 easy... we're trying to find a sweet spot... 500 was perfect. It helps retain the value'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern's CEO cited weak Q4 2023 as driving motivation for packed Q4 2024 lineup; implies previous year underperformance and strategic course correction

    high · Zach: 'Seth Davis said in our dealer seminar... Q4 last year was just not as strong as we would have liked it to have been in the holiday season'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Stern's broken promise on Godzilla Premium color (promised 2025 only, now running November 2024) damages dealer trust and credibility; Zach explicitly calls it 'another broken stern promise'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.410

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on The Pinball Show, we present to you a jam-packed episode full of infotainment, such as the release of Metallica Remastered. Is it a new game or is it just another iteration of the classic? Is Stern announcing too many new products recently? Are they going back on their words and not make more LEs of previous titles? We also chat about Stern Pinball production updates and new products. Our impressions of Metallica Remastered and other games that we've seen at Chicago Pinball Expo, including Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Space Hunt, Ninja Eclipse, Saw, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, as well as additional Pennistry news and, of course, an instant classic remastered edition of Pinball Market Trance. Official Pinball Show Club members get exclusive podcast content that we are titling, Nordman Speaks, a look into Dennis Nordman's exit from American Pinball and what's to come. So what game won Pinball Expo? What game was everyone talking about? And what was the surprise machine of the event? All of this and more on the Pinball Show, episode 163.
1:26
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
1:41
Hey everybody, it's the Pinball Show. I'm Zach Minney. This is Dennis Creasel alongside me for episode 163 where we talk a lot about pinball this episode. You're a Cheshire Cat, Zach. Yeah, I'm tired. I'm thinking I'm cat. See, I guess it's making an appearance again. My sister, brother-in-law, and niece got me the John Wick collection for my birthday, so I've now finally seen all of them. Oh, wonderful. Did you get any notes? They did not progressively get better. I can see why Kiana was like, guys, I need a break.

high confidence · Zach detailing game feature list from official announcement

@ dealer meeting recap

  • “I think 500 was perfect. It helps retain the value of a product, especially a limited edition product, and it being a studio title, I would have been okay seeing $500, but bumped the price.”

    Zach Minney @ end of dealer meeting discussion — Dealer advocate position supporting artificial scarcity and value retention over volume

  • “They don't have any pros... which Dennis feels Compelled about when it comes to not having a pro model of Metallica Remastered, don't you?”

    Zach Minney @ design critique setup — Teases deeper criticism of Stern's tiered product strategy and profit prioritization

  • “Because of the success of ACDC and Metallica, that is exactly, in my opinion, and why we have seen nothing but similar themed music from Stern Pinball thereafter.”

    Dennis Creasel @ discussing music theme evolution — Historical analysis of how successful rock music theming locked Stern into genre/demographic targeting

    • Chuck Ernst
    person
    John Rothenoffperson
    Metallica Remasteredgame
    Uncanny X-Mengame
    Jurassic Park Progame
    Godzilla Premiumgame
    Star Wars Comicgame
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent
    John Wickgame
    Dwight Sullivanperson
    Ron Hallettperson
    Dirty Donnieperson

    high · Zach: 'Godzilla Premium as I have been predicting... they said they were going to make... the color edition, not until 2025... Here to announce that that is true... Another broken stern promise'

  • ?

    code_update: John Wick experiencing extended delay in code updates; Zach (as dealer) frustrated with lack of enhancements undermining sales pitch to customers

    high · Zach: 'Where in the hell is the code to John Wick? Like, this is me being, I'm supposed to be selling these things, but. Where's the code?'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Metallica Remastered features UV ink playfield printing, moving electric chair mechanism, opto-spinners, inline drop bank, RGB bumpers, and custom lighting integrations across cabinet

    high · Zach detailed feature list: 'UV ink is now embedded... Sparky's skeleton... two UV light assemblies... gavel and the hammer... re-sculpted and much more beautiful... key... inline drop bank... Upgraded grade marker cross... molded slingshot flasher skulls'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Star Wars Comic editions returning in December 2024 after years of absence; licensing issue previously blocking return now resolved; timing described as post-hoc for holiday season

    high · Zach: 'it was just gone. And we'd always ask, like, why can't we get that back, Stern? And they were like, I don't know, licensing or something... So it is coming back in December'

  • ?

    production_signal: Stern's packed Q4 lineup (Metallica LE, Uncanny X-Men Premium, Jurassic Park Pro, Godzilla color/70th, Star Wars Comic Pro/Premium) suggests full capacity utilization; dealer allocations undersized relative to demand

    high · Zach: 'that's a jam-packed Q4... More so than probably the catalog of most manufacturers in total. Just that little bundle... dealers also kind of said, hey, you know, 1,000 may be too many'

  • ?

    event_signal: Chicago Pinball Expo served as showcase venue for unreleased/recently-announced titles (Metallica Remastered, Uncanny X-Men, others); hosts attended and reported on game impressions and attendee reactions

    high · Zach: 'We had the Chicago Pinball Expo... impressions of Metallica Remastered and other games that we've seen at Chicago Pinball Expo, including Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Space Hunt, Ninja Eclipse, Saw, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern positioned Metallica Remastered as compromise between vault reissue and completely new design; used same John Borg layout but added LCD, new animations, songs, mechanics; reflects intentional design choice to leverage nostalgia while modernizing

    high · Zach: 'Some of us were like, I think it's going to be maybe a hybrid of what we love to stay the same, but then we get more of it... Metallica wants another pinball machine, so we're going to have John Board do a whole new layout... we didn't get that'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Metallica Remastered's rapid LE sellout suggests strong collector upgrade demand from existing original Metallica owners; 11-12 year old original still in circulation; new buyer base (triple original size) also driving demand

    medium · Zach: 'there are so many Metallicas made. So if it sells out that quick, that tells me that people are making the upgrade... 11, 12 years ago versus today... I would guess it to be at least tripled, if not more'

    • 2:22
    You're going to pay me to come back. I can't keep rolling down the stairs. Those stairs. That whole scene. Yeah. I actually liked the, I'd say I liked the fourth one better than the third, though. It was fun. I think I did as well. It was, it was very, it was almost like meta, John Wick. Yeah, but the lore, gosh, that just spun off into. Yes. So, I'd say the fourth one and the first one are my favorites. Yeah, I agree. I tend to agree. Well, the guy with the vision and parametric blinds. Oh, yeah. Donnie Yen's character. I loved it so much, but at that point I'm like, okay, this is just like fantasy comic book anime stuff at this point. It's crazy. Just shoot that guy. Whatever. Does that mean you're going to get a John Wick fin moment?
    3:07
    I can strip you one today. Ah! Have you got an LE or a premium or a pro? You know, I need to play it some more, but my time with it hasn't been great. You know what? We're not even jumping into the news here, but where in the hell is the code to John Wick? Like, this is me being, I'm supposed to be selling these things, but. Where's the code? There's some frustration, man. Are you a where's the code person, bro? Are you a where's the code bro now? In my opinion, we've gone a bit too long without John Wick code. Like, come on, Timmy Saxon, where is this code at? I don't know. Maybe it's just me. I'm holding on to my LE and I'm like, come on, I'm looking for some enhancements here. Okay. Well, enjoy diamond-handsing John Wick. Who knows? Open the show here. Maybe it'll become the Stranger Things of Keanu.
    4:03
    Possibly. They're both bastardly hard. Is that a word, bastardly? I love it. Probably. It's like akin to dastardly. You know, I don't know. We had the Chicago Pinball Expo. Well, we in the broad royal sense, I did not have Chicago Pinball Expo. Yeah. Is that an idiom? What is that? Is that the country saying? You have a mouse in your pocket? Which country? Or do you mean like rural? Is it rural as in country? Or do you mean like this is a country? This is a famous Romanian saying.
    4:37
    Your ticket is torn and your mouse is in your pocket. Thank you for being on today, Dennis. You know how many people I met at Chicago Pinball Expo this last weekend that had to know where Dennis was at? or, man, Dennis' take on this last week. Or, man, people wanted to know where the creasel was at. They were so worried about it. I thought I was really clear that I wasn't going to be an expert. I know, but they thought you may be making a surprise. I might be lying. Do I lie to the listeners? I try not to. A surprise appearance. I did say, and I say this to you as well, I said, you know what? Dennis Creasel, he's kind of S-level when it comes to pinball media and popularity and influencer base. He's diva-esque now. He's a divo where if you want Dennis Creasel to make a public appearance at the Pinball Expo, we're going to have to find a way to get him there. We're going to have to find a way for Rob Burke to offer that compensation for rooms and travel and stuff. And, oh, maybe I'm talking to Berkey behind the scenes. You know, I did check my email accounts. I checked the Collected Gamers Podcast at gmail.com. And I did get, actually I got two, I think it was from the same person, emails regarding Expo. And I thought, oh, maybe they're making some sort of, you know, we could probably make sure you have a space. No, that's not what I got. I got a, hey, we're checking in to see about if you would like to purchase the visitors and attendees list for Pinball Expo 2024. Yeah, the hacked list. So maybe the 41st anniversary What am I going to do with the attendee list? We met our we I'm doing the we again The royal we I had met a lot of people Seen a lot of familiar friends A lot of our followers to the pinball show A lot of our club members Man, shook a lot of hands Kicked a hell of a lot of babies And even took some pictures I can't even tell you how many pictures I took with people Maybe three It was wonderful Sign some autos. I asked one person, he asked for a signature, and I said, can I sign your forehead? I was joking, Dennis. I was joking just because of the preposterous nature of somebody asking for my signature. So I one-upped him and said, is there any way I can sign your forehead? And he looked at me in such disdain as if he no longer wanted my autograph.
    7:08
    And this is the right response. He was like, sorry I asked, you asshole. I really wanted just a Jason Creasel, but whatever. It was really, it was a good time. So I wanted to personally thank every single person who came out and said hello to me, shook my hand, or who was socially awkward enough not to know when the conversation should have ended ten minutes ago. I love those people as well. And if you didn't come say hello or take a picture or ask for a signature or a glossy 8x10, But what the fuck, man? I was there. Love me or hate me, I was there. You should have come up and embraced me. That's all I'm saying. But thank you. Thank you again. We got a lot to get to, Dennis. Let's jump into some Stern Pinball news. Okay, the past couple of weeks, listener, they've been building over at Stern Pinball the Uncanny X-Men Pro. They've been going out to the locations. They've been going out to consumers. Everybody's playing some Uncanny X-Men Pro. And then people are like, well, what about the premiums? Where are the premiums at? Well, the premiums are coming probably this week. They're on the line, I believe. They should be being produced this week. And then they did announce that the LE version of Uncanny X-Men is officially sold out from Stern Pinball or sold through, however you want to term it. Stern Pinball no longer has any to sell its dealers. Congratulations, Stern Pinball, on the 811 LEs sold. So as I said, listener, this week will be Uncanny X-Men Premium, likely followed by or in at the same time Jurassic Park Pro. Dennis, we did nail our prediction that in October something else old was coming, but also new. We'll talk about that very soon in the recently announced and released Metallica Remastered game. We'll also talk more in depth about the production timelines, but for now, know that Metallica Remastered is coming this November. LEs are going to roll in early November, so just a couple of weeks from now, and the premium model is going to be on the line mid to late November. And then we have some new announcements over at Stern Pinball Production-Wise. Godzilla Premium, as I have been predicting over the last couple months. They said they were going to make Godzilla Premium the color edition, not until 2025. Remember that whole thing? I remember, and you were like, I don't believe them. I don't believe it. I think that they lie. I even said, I think we'll probably see another run in November. And here to announce that that is true, they have announced November runs of Godzilla Premium. Another broken stern promise. But we nail it here. And you know what? What? Our friend Dwight Sullivan came up to me. He said, so where's Dennis? That's my Dwight Sullivan. And I said, I know you prefer him, Dwight, but you know what? You're stuck with me. And he said, you know, loved your last podcast. Love it. But so like three episodes ago, where's my Pepsi? Three episodes ago. I think he's a diet Pepsi drinker. He said, actually, you're right. I think you were right on the X uncanny X-Men release because based on the rules that you initially set, he said, you kind of shot yourself in the foot the follow up week. But the initial rules that you did set was that it would show one major feature. That is a launch. And he said, so I think you should get credit and Dennis should get credit. It should have been a split credit, but you allowed Dennis to take full credit, which I disagree with. What about that? You did allow it. So, I mean, I gave it your shot. I was leaning to letting you go.
    10:51
    The reveals are revealing. And you're like, you know, no, they need to. We need to see the game. And I was like, okay, I mean, that's a good argument. I love that I hadn't seen Dwight Sullivan in six months. And the first thing he said to me when he came up, he was like, hey, I love Dennis, but you gave him credit half the time. You did. Why'd you give me so much credit? Also in November, get this. You can have credit for Godzilla Premium color. Thank you. And do you something old but new in October? Yep, you were right about that. We hit percentages here. November also is going to see Godzilla Premium as well in the black and white 70th anniversary edition version of it. But also keep in mind, Stern Pinball is announcing that this is their last planned run of that. Well, it's almost the 71st anniversary, so they've got to get it. That's what they said. They were like, this was created as a black and white edition for the 70th, so we have no plans to ever make that again until the 75th anniversary. And then they'll change the art. It'll be black with a different red highlight. I know. That'd be fantastic. A blood red.
    12:01
    Myron Godzilla kiss edition. His lips are just sparkly. Okay, so that was the last planned run. So, people, get your orders in. And then in a surprise announcement come December, we are going to see the return of Star Wars comic pro and comic premium editions. Wow. I did not see this one coming at all.
    12:28
    Everybody prefers. Everybody. Such a strong use of term. A lot of people. I would argue maybe the majority of individuals who compare both the original artwork of the Star Wars game by Serum Pinball to the comic edition later done by Randy Martinez, they prefer the comic version. But then it was just gone. And we'd always ask, like, why can't we get that back, Stern? And they were like, I don't know, licensing or something. I don't know. But maybe they did know and they didn't want to admit it. So it is coming back in December. It's still kind of surprising to me, timeline-wise here. Why? Just in time for Christmas. I think it would have hit harder last year. I agree, but they may need it more now. Yeah, well, and Seth Davis said in our dealer seminar for the Metallica Remastered, when he was talking to us, he said, look, Q4 last year was just not as strong as we would have liked it to have been in the holiday season. So that was one of our big goals and focus areas for 2024. and we are very proud of the jam-packed Q4 that we are providing dealers and hobbyists, which is Metallica Remastered, Godzilla Premium Color, Godzilla Premium Last Call 70th Anniversary Black and White, Star Wars Comic Pro and Premium Return, and Uncanny X-Men Pro Premium and LE. And I have to agree, that's a jam-packed Q4. More so than probably the catalog of most manufacturers in total. Just that little bundle. We'll talk more about that. If we're talking about Stern pinball accessories, guess what's back? It's the Stern pinball alley arcade sign. It's back and more expensive than ever.
    14:15
    I mean, it's cool, but I don't know how you get a custom sign. This seven and a half foot wide mammoth of an arcade sign. People were paying $10,000 for these. They were only available to dealers, like, I don't know, five years ago or so. And you couldn't find them. They were so limited. So Stern said, fine, if you want that, we'll make them again. They did. They weigh about half of what they did, if not less than. So they're mostly plastic now. No real metal parts there. $3,500. And they span 90 inches in width, 36 inches in height, and 9 inches deep. That's a big sign, Dennis. That's pretty cool. People seem to like them. $3,500 is way cheaper than $10,000. Numbers don't lie. But still to be announced are Phantom Accessories, John Wick Accessories, Godzilla 70th Accessories, Uncanny X-Men Accessories, and now Metallica Remastered Accessories, which we'll talk about. The big story this week in pinball is Metallica Remastered, Stern Pinball's newest offering, which is not a cornerstone title, listener. No. It was back when it first came out. This is a studio title release. Wow, studio. Which is very similar to the studio titledness of Elvira's House of Horrors. So there's an SLE? No, there's no SLE. Yeah, I guess it's not at all like the studio of Elvira. The studio is when we don't have any pros. Oh, is that what studio means? Well, typically studio is more pricey, too. Elvira Premium is more pricey than a regular point and roll. But isn't this price the same as the Cornerstone Premium, at least? Look, why is this called studio at all? So far, everything you've said doesn't make any sense, except that it doesn't have a pro. I guess just that they don't have a pro, honestly.
    16:01
    I guess that's what it means. I think that by calling this a studio, it kind of tips the cap to maybe some future stuff that we may see that is something old but new. That's my thought. So for all those beloved games in the past Catalog of Stern Pinball Discussions are surrounding The hobbyist forums What are we going to see next right We deal with this every year that we talk about And I think maybe if we do see these next If it's going to be based on this Stern Pinball is thinking maybe Premium Alley Is kind of the only way to go If we're going to spend time and energy bringing them back Let's bring back everything but the pros Which Dennis feels Compelled about when it comes to not having a pro model of Metallica Remastered, don't you? Well, I mean, the thing is that the Metallica, I kind of get it maybe from Stern's perspective because the problem, again, from their perspective, is the pro basically gave you everything that you would want with Metallica. Agreed. So if your plan is I want to force more profitable sales, which, of course, are premium and LE models, then let's just not make a pro at all because a lot of people would have chosen the pro had been an option. I really agree with that. The thing, of course, that's that issue is how many people, though, make the jump versus the people that are out at premium but in at pro. There are some that make the jump and that would have otherwise gotten a pro. But I just, I don't know, ultimately. But given that there are so many other games like Uncanny X-Men being made right now, it probably made a lot of sense just within the fact that it's not a cornerstone to go ahead and just slipped this in in terms of a production count and everything. But it would have been extremely well received if there had been a pro.
    17:50
    And we hobbyists were wondering, because the rumors were Metallica is going to come back, but we didn't know, is it going to be the Spike 3 system? No, there was a huge Spike 3 rumor. Yes. This is not. This is a Spike 2 game. I said it would have been pretty lame to have launched Spike 3 without a remaster. You absolutely did. And I'm glad you were correct in that. It doesn't make any sense to just bring back something old to show off your new board set. Yeah, that would be something old for something really new. Yes. Yeah, we don't need that. And that saying doesn't really roll off the tongue. It doesn't work as well. No. But then we were wondering, maybe this is just a vault. Maybe they're just, you know, making this again. Same parts, same art, same everything. Yeah, I had speculated on that. G and D, you know. Yes. And it wasn't that. No, it wasn't. Some of us were like, I think it's going to be maybe a hybrid of what we love to stay the same, but then we get more of it. We get it. Abomination. We get it. 2024 version of what Metallica was from the past. And then some people thought, we're going to get a brand new game. Metallica wants another pinball machine, so we're going to have John Board do a whole new layout, whole new toys, everything. The only thing he's going to be saying is music and a theme, and we didn't get that. So they did announce this on October 14th, Stern Pinball did. They teased it and said, we're getting what we're calling Metallica Remastered. And then it was later revealed on October 16th, which was this past Wednesday. There was no increase in pricing, which was great to hear. I think it's over two years now with no price increase. And then when Seth Davis, the CEO of Stern Pinball, was discussing this new product with dealers such as myself, they talked about expanding pinball for everyone and them considering bringing back high demand pro premium lcd titles like stranger things right they've done that in the past as well as remastering older generation titles from the dmd era maybe such as metallica remastered so this is a goal of theirs and one that we will see in the future how do you feel about that i get it from their perspective. I don't love it from a consumer perspective. And we will discuss that later on here. The designer of Metallica Remastered is John Borg, of course, because it's the same layout. There's still changes, but same layout. Code. It's Lyman Sheets. You're not going to change Lyman's code. No. We can remaster and add to it. We can enhance it by bringing on fan favorite Raymond Davidson. You mean music pin only, Raymond Davidson? Oh, poor Ray Day. He's getting more music, man. I don't think there's any airport modes in this game, though. I don't believe so. Well, maybe those will be what he adds. That will be his touch. I don't, but we'll see. Raymond Davidson joins to add to Lyman Sheets code and rules. Art is by, not by Dirty Donnie. It is by renowned Metallica artist Reese Cooper. Oh, Reese. Yes. Some people call me, oh, Reese. Sorry. I'm like, that's so stupid. That's so dumb.
    21:02
    It's been a long weekend, dude. It is stupid. Some people call me, oh, Reese. But you thought of it.
    21:10
    That's my dumb brain. But Reese Cooper. Mechanical engineer. They should have put Gangster of Love in the Godfather game. John Rothenoff is the mechanical engineer in this animation by Chuck Ernst and team. The new additions to this game, listener, include LCD integration, new custom animation and concert footage, over 20 Metallica songs at the start of the game, and even more that can be unlocked through Insider Connected. In total, there's going to be eight new songs, if not more, including 72 Seasons, Hardwired, Frantic, Hit the Lights, If Darkness Had a Sun, King and Nothing, Moth into flame. And spit out the bone. There's going to be a new Hardwired and 72 Seasons modes. Some more modes. New Blackened Wizard mode. Over 1,000 new speech call-outs from the band. It's going to have Insider Connected, some Metallica you love, but now with more achievements. It's also featuring many new mechanisms, many new toys, including a new Sparky Skeleton character. A new mech, Dennis, that allows the entire electric chair now to move and shake during electrocution. UV ink is now embedded into the printing of the play field and some of the stuff on the play field to expose, like, Sparky's skeleton body. There's also two UV light assemblies on the slings to expose enhanced lighting effects on the band members, their skeletal heads. There's the gavel and the hammer that people just love from the premium of old. is now re-sculpted and much more beautiful. The hammer even has a UV light embedded inside it to cast light down around the magnet lock. You'll even find, if you look closely, once the lock is lit or something, if the lock is lit, you need a key. Ah, yeah. So a key. You'll see artwork of a UV key on the play field. There's a new inline drop bank that is replacing the old reflective opto bank that they used. So newer, more reliable technology in the inline three-drop bank. Upgraded grade marker cross, now with embedded lit LEDs, red LEDs. There's a molded slingshot flasher skulls, two of them. And then they're like interactive, so they light up within. There's an illuminated Metallica logo back panel with individually controlled lighting. There's now, everybody loves a spinner so much so that like people took their pros and add spinners to them. On this premium LE model, there are the spinners still, but now they're opto-spinners. So you get that upgrade. There's added lighting throughout, including some insert lighting, like five hardwired inserts, one fuel jackpot, four 72-seasons inserts, two lighting lights above the mystery scoop now. I think they're for some of the different modes. There's one above the flipper, an insert there. There's the pop bumpers are RGB. Various technical and mechanical improvements. And to finish out, the LE model then gets you the mirrored back glass, metallic foil cabinet art, expression cabinet, and speaker lighting, laser-cut skeleton armor, upgraded sound system, anti-reflective glass, shaker motor, and probably more. Okay, so that's a little feature. You first stepped up to this thing virtually, and your thoughts. That's generous of you. Your thoughts. I mean. Visually. Just visually. Art aside, which is pretty much going to be subjective, it's a superior version to the original in basically every way. Wow. Okay. All right. Well, how can you debate it? I mean, they took everything that they learned from the last one. They've added more features. They've improved the build quality on some of the toys, at least I'm assuming they have. So it would be difficult to argue otherwise, in my opinion. Yeah, and this is a game that is, I thought, 12 years old when I was talking to Ron Hallett. He was like, everybody's saying 12. I think he's 11. So 11 or 12 years old. Well, around, you know, let's not get too hung up on it. So, but this is an older game that they've used to create this new one. This is not like it's, you know, three years old or anything. But this is still probably one of Stern's bestsellers and most loved games in their entire catalog. Yes. So the art, I think the art works so, so well. I think the art works better than Dirty Donnie's artwork. How do you feel about the artwork comparison there? Yeah, I mean, I personally like the newer look better myself, but I know that's not universally agreed upon. Sure, sure. It is a very different take. But it's just, it fits the brand better. The other stuff, like the Dirty Donnie stuff was before we, us pinball people knew what good art was. So we've seen that and we're like, oh, this is badass rat rod cartoon cool stuff. So we loved it for a long time. But then we've seen this and I'm like, okay, this is skull, blood, crossbones, and werewolves, and spiders, snakes. This is gnarly. This is so much more what Metallica is. So much so that they've, I mean, they've got a renowned Metallica artist. I mean, Dirty Donnie, didn't he? He did. Yeah, he worked with them, too. So it was thematic at the time. Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, the artwork is just killer, especially the Ellie artwork. Jeez, man, these Ellies, that's what everybody wanted initially. Same kind of thing. Whenever a new game comes out, are people going to settle for a pro? Are they going to keep everything that they get from the Ellie but save some money on a premium? Or are they just going balls to the wall with an Ellie? This one, there's 500 units finished. It was probably one of the quickest sellouts we've seen from a Stern Pinball product in years. It was almost instantaneous. The only reason it took me an hour or two to say we were sold out was because I just had to go through our list and wait for responses and stuff like that before I moved to Enlist. So our list was like four times longer in those interested than the allocation we got. and I think for most dealers it was the same, if not worse. So it was a quick sellout, which kind of surprised me.
    27:30
    Why? Because there are so many Metallicas made. So if it sells out that quick, that tells me that people are making the upgrade.
    27:40
    Does it? I think so. I don't know that. I agree that there are people that are making the upgrade, But, again, 11 years is a long time for a lot of people that may never have owned it, especially if so many of the buyers of Metallica, given how beloved it is, have, quote, unquote, bolted it. Well, we think about that you're right. We think about the additional community 11, 12 years ago versus today. I would argue that that buyer base, I have no doubt to back this up, but I would guess it to be at least tripled, if not more.
    28:20
    That was right when ACDC came out. That was right when Stern Games started to get good. Right. You know, ACDC, I think for most people, maybe not, but for me at least, that's the turning point. ACDC, Steve Ritchie's back, ACDC comes out. It was a huge hit for Stern at the time, and then we started to see things like That's when they really go balling. It was right there with them, too. It was like ACDC and Metallica. Well, ACDC came out first. Yes, yes. And so given that, but that's where I feel Stern was like, and they had done music before, like Elvis, for example. But you'll notice music pins all of a sudden became just a regular thing out of Stern after ACDC. Well, and it was the introduction to, I'm sorry, Elvis. I know you're the king of rock and roll. But, like, rock and roll for the growing demographic. Because the demographic, whenever Metallica came out, I would argue, was slightly different than when Elvis came out. It wasn't far apart, but what pinball was, in theory, and nostalgia, was different when Elvis came out, which is exactly why they went with Elvis as one of their first music themes, Rolling Stones even. But Metallica and ACDC was the first, all right, boomers, you've got some money now. Let's make you feel like you're a fucking badass. And it worked really well. And because of the success of ACDC and Metallica, that is exactly, in my opinion, and why we have seen nothing but similar themed music from Stern Pinball thereafter. Well, I mean, Foo Fighters feels like it's a different generation to me. Still in the same vein, it's like, okay, it's like Metallica for young kids. Right. Because it's getting stronger. So are you thinking more about like the genre of music is what you're emphasizing? Yeah, because it's all rock, but it's like, what's the rock that they want their buyer base to identify with? Hmm. That's because. Well, Iron Maiden's metal. Iron Maiden's not the same.
    30:34
    True. And Aerosmith is more nostalgia. Yeah, but I'd still say that you had pop rock songs out of. They were on top 50 stations. Yeah. So the music works and it still works. It still holds up today. But also what's selling this particular game is the nostalgia of the original product. which is fantastic. I mean, the layout was liked. It's a beloved rule set.
    31:02
    Yeah, it's a popular band. It has a lot. There's a reason why Stern started with this and I do not think they end with it. Oh, absolutely not. What do you think about 500 units of this? Smart. They could have sold 1,000 easy. Don't care. I agree. I agree with you. Even though my allocation would have been double.
    31:25
    I agree with you. Something very interesting, in my opinion, whenever we were in the dealer meeting, at the end of it when they present this new product to the dealers, there's a Q&A time. And Seth Davis answered as well as Raymond was there and John Borg was there for the Q&A. And a lot of the dealers were providing the feedback, I'd say at least a handful, saying, why only 500? You've got to give us more LAs. We've got to have more. This would have sold more. And Seth Davis said, yeah. He said, I agree. I think this would have sold 1,000 easy. He's like, but we're really trying to take feedback from our consumer base as well as you dealers. And he was like, and you dealers also kind of said, hey, you know, 1,000 may be too many. So he was like, we're trying to find a sweet spot on these things. So he's like, 500. It was a studio release, so we wanted it to be special. and we wanted to retain value for almost a classic title game that we've had in the past. So he was like, but we'll take the feedback and we'll adjust it. And I chimed in and I said, please know, actually, I think 500 was perfect. It helps retain the value of a product, especially a limited edition product. and it being a studio title, I would have been okay seeing $500, but bumped the price up a little bit since it was a studio release. But they knew financially in the market that we're in that would have been perceived more negatively increasing the price than increasing the LE allocation, I think. So they did it smart, but I was the only dealer that said, no, actually I think $500 was the sweet spot here to retain value of your product long term. and I also talked to him about that, him and George Gomez later on this week that we'll talk about. So the artwork is great stuff. We agree on that layout. We also know. What do you think about the upgrades themselves? LCD. I've heard rave reviews about the animation style. I haven't seen enough. I mean, obviously, it's going to look better than what the DMD did. And people love those dots, though. The DMD dots on Metallica were good. I'll tell you what. You're going to have plenty of those able to get a hold of. That's what you want. Oh, boy. That's true.
    33:48
    Magnet use in this game. I freaking love the addition. What about the UV, Dennis? I'm not surprised that they did that. That was so easy. They're going to use the new RGB. They're going to really lean on it moving forward. They didn't blow it out like Stranger Things where you get it everywhere. It's just accentuations here and there. But still maybe some argue stronger than the presentation of UV in Avatar L I need to see Avatar L in person to make an assessment like that Yeah, fair enough. I like upgraded spinners. What about the, one of the talking points here is, everybody loves the Sparky figure. We got Skeleton Sparky now. Do you like Old Sparky? I kind of like Old Sparky. I didn't like Old Sparky. I thought it was ugly. With the tongue coming out? Oh, yeah, I get it. It just, again, and it fit with the Dirty Donnie. See, that's the thing. Is it fit with the Dirty Donnie artwork? It's not going to fit with this artwork. That's a really good point. Yeah, that's true. That is true. I like the styling of old, but I like the UV, how it shines on him, and he's a skeleton. That makes more sense to the electrocution of it all. Why? Because we electrocute skeletons? No, because we know factually whenever you electrocute someone, you see their internal skeleton form. And their hair usually poofs up too. So, yeah, I like that. I could have done without the hammer. Everybody says that. But thank God it's more beautiful, like times 20. It's actually colored and molded and sculpted in a nice way. And then all the people are going to like the upgraded code, because that was still kind of the thing for me, Dennis. Every time I got – Well, all the same old – I mean, maybe Raymond's sections won't be wood chopping, but everything else is, so that's not changing. I just needed more from the original. You needed more wood chopping. No, I don't. Well, if it's wood chopping, then no, I don't need more of that. So do you think he's going to dramatically change approach versus how all the other modes are? Oh, I don't know. I don't know how he's going to do, if he even touches the other modes. Is his software out in it yet? Like, I guess this isn't readily available, so I didn't know if anyone had to try his modes at Expo. I believe so, yeah. Because I asked Ray, I was like, how is this going to be code complete quicker than Cornerstone Games, right? And he was like, yeah. He was like, but a lot of it is already in there. I think there's like maybe a wizard mode that is in there but not complete complete, but yeah. So it's very far along, I believe. Because I'm reminded of CSI where it was designed, software was designed by committee, and like each multiball was a different person, and they feel very different, And so there's a lack of, they're incongruous, I guess. I don't know. So I just wonder, again, because you still have, most of the structure is Lyman Sheets structure. So do you make it feel like, oh, this is clearly not Lyman's section? Or does Raymond try and make it feel like this would be what it would have been like if Lyman had added these modes? I don't know the direction that Ray was given. But knowing Ray, I don't see him creating, for better or worse, I don't see him creating something that feels like Lyman. I think Ray does Ray. Right. Well, and that's where I'm at, though, is does it, do you want to feel disjointed either? So, like, if all of a sudden. I'm okay with them feeling significantly different. You might be. I don't know if people will be like, you know what, I can tell these are the add-on secondary person stuff. But what if those add-ons are so dynamically different that it offers a fresh perspective? Like, I'm totally fine with that. So we've honored the legacy of Lyman Sheets by dunking on his code.
    37:33
    That's a perception thing. It is, but that's why I'm asking these. I'm playing devil's advocate on all this. I think you can go all sorts of ways. I'm not saying one way is better or another. I'm just asking questions. I think from a competitive standpoint, Lyman's code is damn great, but it was not my favorite Lyman rules at all. Probably one of the worst because it felt choppy. So I am fine with them deviating. Now, having said that, the other things that for me was like I like the crank it up modes because I can never really get through all four of them and they were difficult. But the risk reward of cashing in, I never liked that on games. And I'm hoping that an additional wizard mode or two are now going to offer me something else to chase. because I chased the four crank it up modes, but I could care less how far I get into them. How much my jackpots, my multiples, I'll fuck off. Who cares? I want to get through them. Lots of people care, and Raymond's a high-level player. I know. Imagine he really likes Risk Rewards. So maybe they are congruent. Maybe they do mesh well together. Maybe that's why they chose Ray for this. Plus, they were like, oh, it's a music pin. Hey, Ray. Yeah, no, he's a music pin guy. Can we get five minutes? Yeah. So we've got this or we've got Madonna. How about that? Which one do you want to work on? I think Madonna would make a good pinball machine. I think it would. It could do well. All right. So we'll see. We'll see with this code and stuff. Everybody's like, well, what about the expression lighting? Do we get that on the premium? Yes, you do. You can have that. It's coming out as an accessory. So they're not Foo Fighter Pro in us here. It will be an accessory available. And they said, accessories, this is the one title they're finally like, you know what? We're launching the accessories when we launch the game. They're planning to launch at the end of the initial run of this game, which is, I guess, end of November. You're going to see the accessories announced for this game, which is, boy, that's an upgrade. Sales. Yes. How do you believe the sales have been thus far on this game? Well, I imagine the LEs flew. I don't know how the premiums are doing. They're doing very well. The premiums are what people are, it feels like the premiums are what people are resorting to. All right, let me ask you, and you may choose not to reply, of course. Okay. It versus X-Men premium. Premium to premium, what's doing better? All right, this is a good question because we talked about this at the Stern dealer thing that was on Wednesday. This was surprising to me. We heard from some dealers that they were selling these Metallica premiums much easier on day one than X-Men premiums. And, in fact, they said X-Men premiums because they hadn't been made yet and stuff like that. People were kind of – they weren't as high in sales.
    40:33
    Juxtaposed, for us, we have sold a lot of X-Men premiums. And day one, we sold more X-Men premiums than McAuley. But I don't believe that to be consistent across dealers for whatever reason. We sold more X-Men. But it is always a good sign when, and it's a weird, I don't even know what heuristic this would be or if this is even a thing, but I've noticed that, okay, really quick for listeners. Allocations of LEs, there is a correlation between a dealer's LE allocation and the size of their dealership? Somewhat. Depending on what focus areas they have. But loosely based, the more LEs the dealer gets, the more pros and premiums that dealer sells throughout the year. Previous titles. That makes sense. Literally.
    41:32
    It's always a great sign when in the first week you have sold more premiums than your allotted or allocated LE number. That's always a good sign. It doesn't always happen, but that is a good sign. Now, this doesn't have a pro model, so that kind of skews things. But on X-Men, we sold more premiums than our allotted LEs. That was a good sign. And then this time on Metallica, we have sold more premiums already than the allocation of LEs that we received. So we sold more premiums, absolutely. But those premium sales did not come. Three-fourths of them did not come until everyone was sold out of the LEs. Again, it might be interesting to some, maybe boring to others, but that's how it happened. So sales have been very, very, very good for Metallica. which also brings up what I've heard some hobbyists say is, why in the hell would they release Metallica? Pun intended, why in the hell. Why would they release this game on top of Uncanny X-Men? That is an interesting question. Why would they do that? They're killing their sales. So we heard a lot of that at the expo, and within some of the dealers were discussing that as well, even to the point of, I don't think they would mind me saying, having a discussion with Seth and George, they asked my opinion. They didn't offer theirs, but they asked me. No, no, they were just like, Zach, tell us how to run our business. No, no, they just wondered what I would say. They said, hey, we were getting some feedback from dealers saying, hey, you know, we're trying to sell X-Men. Why are you throwing this on us now? And they said, what are your thoughts? As a hobbyist, Dennis, what do you think? I think that the audiences might be different, so it may be okay. I agree. My response to Mr. Davis and Mr. Gomez was one from a seller's perspective. Based on me being a dealer, I said, keep them coming. Give us a new game next month, Seth. And he kind of was shocked by my response.
    43:42
    And it followed a smile as well. But I said, no, no, no, no, keep them coming. Don't worry about that. Don't worry about it. If people aren't selling them, it's all based on numbers. Like if you're getting feedback and you're getting sales from us dealers that are high and what you want to expect, then keep them coming. Like sales will and numbers will indicate whether or not you need to stop doing this. And right now, if you look at the sales of Uncanny X-Men and sales of Metallica Remastered, keep them coming. Because I think you're right, Dennis. They do. They're not separate entirely. but what we found is a lot of our buyers that are buying Metallica, they didn't buy Uncanny X-Men for whatever reason. And there's a cadence of ownership and people buying Stern Pinball machines, whether it's, yeah, I average one out of every ten releases. Yeah, I average every one. I do one every three, whatever it may be. But we found a lot of different people buying the Metallica that did not buy Uncanny X-Men and so forth. A lot of our customers that we spoke with, hey, I hope you're enjoying your Uncanny X-Men LE. Do you have any interest in Metallica? And they were like, no, actually, no. I told myself I was going to take a break until next year.
    44:53
    So this wasn't going to affect them anyway. Now, if sales were low here, then I would say yes. Or if Uncanny X-Men just falls out now, sales-wise, then maybe. But thus far, we've not seen any of that. So there's your answer, listener. Are there too many games? Even as a hobbyist, as a hobbyist, why the hell would you care? I would want as many games as possible. Yeah, I don't know why a hobbyist would mind. Some were. Like, oh, they're canning the legs. Why are they doing it? Who gives a shit? Well, they might not understand, but it doesn't impact them is my point. Like, they might disagree from a business. Isn't it like they're just sort of thinking, like, armchair quarterbacking business operation? Well, I guess some of them are thinking, like, damn it, I just bought Uncanny X-Men. I can't, I don't want to have to, like, spend money. Damn. Okay, well. I mean, I suppose if they – let's say that they insist on buying new, only new. And now they're worried that it will be out of production by the time they get the money together. I could see a hypothetical like that. The LEs, they'd have to make a decision pretty quick.
    45:58
    That's life, though. Or the people, especially whenever the premiums of Uncanny X-Men have not shipped yet. They're like, well, shit, I haven't even got my Uncanny X-Men, and now you're telling me that you're wanting $13,000 for an LE Metallica? I could see them being, eh, that's why. It's fine, but oh, hell, you only live once and you're going to die.
    46:21
    The media common discussion question of this week that you guys are going to hear everywhere is this, Dennis. Is Metallica remastered a new game, or is this just simply a vault reissue game? That's what everybody's going to ask on Pinside right now. You see, of course, you go to Pennside and you just see anger and frustration and name-calling. People are angry there. And what they're angry about regarding Metallica, if you've got to be angry about something, they're saying this is just a way for Stern Pinball to steal more of our money because this is overpriced and it's the same damn game. There's nothing new here, et cetera. This isn't a new game. This is just a remake that they threw some stuff in so that they can get $13,000 or $10,000 for a premium for. I don't think it's either.
    47:13
    Oh. How's that fence feel? The fence? I don't know. Ask Joel how the fence feels. Joel's like, what the hell? I can't consider it a new game. It's using way too much of the old rules. It's the same dang layout. it's not a new game. But it's not simply a vault because they've changed way too much. They've added too much to it to be a simple vault to reissue. So I think the fence makes sense. But I can't say that it's not Metallica because it is. The layout's the layout. They kept the Lyman rules in. It's still Metallica that they're choosing to not update the old version and add new rules, new game stuff, all the new, not just like fixing screw hang-ups and stuff like they might with a vault, but actually where they make little minor improvements, but actually going ahead and scaling things up.
    48:09
    So it's more than just a vault. I'm going to compare it to, remember Spider-Man 3 and then they came out with comic Spider-Man? Oh, okay. It's a little, it's kind of like that, but more than that, yes. Because that was more than just an art package. They changed some of the modes, like the display animations and stuff, but it's still the same rules, still the same layout. They changed up some of the toys and stuff. This is like that, but they've dialed it up more because, obviously, there's been a major upgrade with changing from the DMD to the LCD screen. But when you've got the same layout and you've got the same rules, I cannot say it is a whole new game. So maybe it's an updated house, but it's still in the same neighborhood. hood. Yeah, it's like getting an addition on your house. Okay. But you also redid all the... Addition rather than addition. Right. You've got... You're like, let's add on a game room onto our house. And while we'll add it, let's get new flooring and cabinets in the kitchen. The floor plan is still the same on all the existing aspects of the house.
    49:20
    And it's the same color scheme. But now the art analogy, because Now you're getting confused with the art analogy. But for the house, it's the same color scheme. The color scheme is the rules in the analogy. Let's stop with this analogy. It's getting confusing. So, no, I don't. I feel I have to fence it on it because I cannot say this is a new game. That would be, that's an absurd argument. What about, I thought they said they were making more L.E.s of previously released games. Oh, fuck you, sir.
    49:46
    Fuck you, Seth Davis. Yeah, and I went back and I found the information on Nap Arcade from where that, because that came up in a dealer presentation,
    49:56
    and it had been clarified that, and you can still hate this, but they had clarified that there would be no limited editions after launch, and that applied to any Spike 2 games, that those would be refreshed only with pro premium options.
    50:14
    But they did note at that time, or in the clarification, that they would be remastering older generation DMD titles, and they did not specify those would be limited to pro and premium. This was back in January. And I bet the reason why this clarification happened is because, obviously, this was already well in development. Sure. So I think that clarification exists because they fully intended to not stick to saying, well, we're not going to not have LEs for SAM system games that we update. And so everyone who owns an LE for a SAM system game is right to be afraid at this point because Stern will devalue your game.
    50:52
    Okay. So, no, they did not promise that they wouldn't do that, but I completely understand why Sam owners feel like they just got screwed because they did. What's the statute of limitations for getting screwed?
    51:07
    It's all perception. There's no statute. So we get generations 50 years from now? You brought back Stern stars.
    51:17
    Fuck you. If you want me to not fence that and give you a statute, it's when a different company does the remake.
    51:25
    So if Chicago Gaming was to remake Metallica and come up with their own LE version after Stern goes out of business, that would be okay. What if they used the same layout? No, it would be the same layout because it would be the medieval Matt. It's the medieval Matt.
    51:40
    Right. It's the same game, but they, I mean, there are important. They're all the same. Cactus Canyon. Take your crazy pills. Cactus Canyon with its maybe coming out code. I mean, they did finish the code on the base game. So it's the same game, but with its... Rise of the Lightning, remastered. No, but it's the same game. They're grouped together on Pinside for a reason. Oh.
    52:02
    That's a strange thing. Pinside knows what it's doing. It will be interesting to see how Pinside does this. It's a new different game. I know how they're going to do it. No, it's Metallica. They even call it Metallica Remastered. You can't honestly treat it like, Like, well, this is Jurassic Park Data East versus Jurassic Park CERN. What a great term to tie to this title, remastered, because that is perfectly what it is. Sure. This, in every sense, is remastered from what we loved, but making it 2024 worthy. Like, the game was 11 or 12 years old.
    52:39
    This is a new game. There's more new about it than old. It has what we love. Why would you ever change that? If you're going to keep the same theme of a game, but that theme was like the most classic product, the one that you've ever created, yeah, we start calling that homage, right? That's a nice dedication. An ode to, if you will. and then it's got tied to it one of the grandest creators in all of pinball history with Code of Lime and Sheets and oh by the way he's fallen a couple years ago so it's even more tribute why would you ever take that away so Stern was they were like IQ 180 here keeping what we love when they remaster the other Sam games they're not changing the rules on those either It's not going to matter who the coder was. I think there's a reason they did Metallica first. Because it's such a popular game. Sure. But I think there's more than just that. I mean, it's just very convenient. They didn't get the same volume of vaults as some of the other games that maybe sold better than it.
    53:51
    I don't think it had. I think it's solely sales-driven was the only reason why it was chosen first. So I say it's a different game because other than layout and other than... And most of the rules. majority of it because they're what we love. Yes, absolutely. Now, remaster is a very accurate statement, but it's a, and this is where I do sympathize with people. It was never going to be, I've seen people complain about bringing up how much the LEs were back 13 years ago. It was never going to be sold at the old price. No. But that being fair, most of the work that is the time investment of making the game, that was not redone. And your case in point was your example when you brought up the state of the software, and Raymond was like, oh, yeah, no, it's basically done. It's a different operating system. They don't say that about anything coming out of Stern, but because it was such an easy lift, it is almost done here. For me, there's so much more new that calling it anything other than a brand-new game, I don't think you could do it. I mean, they have an entire new way to present it. They have an LCD screen with full animations instead of DMV. That was the biggest time investment. They have custom animation and concert footage. You're still talking about the display? They have additional songs, almost 50% more songs. That's an easy download.
    55:08
    It's still a presentation. It's a new game. It is. They have new wizard modes. They have new modes. It's more content, but we're used to it. This had been a different operating system entirely.
    55:19
    I get that. Nobody cares. Over 1,000 new call-outs? Nobody cares what the operating system is. The only reason people want Spike versus Sam is because it lets you have an LCD. That's the only value to it. And users don't care what the system is. Insider Connected adds a whole new gameplay element to it. No, it adds achievements to it.
    55:40
    And gameplay elements with challenge modes, et cetera. It has new molds, new characters, new UV lighting. Another easy add-on. New technology. So easy. So simple. It has new toys. I hope they move the entire Sam catalog. This is going to be such easy money for them with next to no work.
    56:00
    I think they would be silly not to. Actually, some of the Sam games aren't really worthy of moving on. That's fair. Sorry, WWE. It's hard not to say for me that this is a new game. And for those who are angry about it, like, okay, I'm sorry that we're on your lawn. But we're fucking partying, Gramps. Go inside. Dude, it's 7 o'clock anyway. Time for you to metamuthil and go to bed. So what is your statute of limitations? So of your buyers who are buying this LE, if you're saying, if you're going to do Metallica, the remastered remastering, so after 13 years, is it okay for a new LE to come out later? Are you going to tell your buyers, get over it? Like your value retention that I so promoted with the 500 games as being so smart, because of the value retention. And I said, when is it okay for them to burn the value retention away? Because that's the big gripe I've seen is the LE buyers from Metallica is you burned their value retention. And you know you're going to have to trend it down. They burned their value retention. But coming soon, we'll see. You'll have to. You will have to. Look, as a hobbyist, I can only say how I felt. And whenever Godzilla came out with that 70th anniversary black and white, which I think I may like more than the color version, I have the LE, and I wasn't mad. Like, I've been consistent. That's just premium. That's just premium trash. Yeah, but I've been consistent for the past couple of years. Me, as a hobbyist, I don't give a rat's ass about, like, collectability of how many numbers were made. I just don't care. But you know the value retention aspect does to some people. I mean, I'm right there with you, Zach. I don't buy LEs, so I honestly do not care if Stern burns LE, like, from a solely dentist perspective. I don't care what you do to the LE people. If I think that this was, if we were in the market that LEs really were this thing that, like, the value and the money and the worth of them was driven by the limited nature of them, it is to a certain degree, but not a large enough degree where I say, I'm pissed now. And if it, no business is going to, I just, it's not a big enough industry and market for this product that they could even lean on that. I really just, no. But you do understand why people that are in it about value retention are so upset. Which is why a lot of people do buy at least because even though they are limited in nature, not to the degree, but they still attain their value on average much more than their pro or premium counterparts. So there still is built-in value there. I do get that. You could even argue features-wise you're getting that additional value too.
    58:43
    But, no, I don't care. But, like, no. But the specialization for me would be. This is why I am part. Well, there's multiple reasons. I don't want to over-exaggerate. But this is part of the reason why I do not consider LEs. Because I would never trust a company like Stern to actually honor that in any meaningful way. Yeah, but they're creating the best addition for you. Why wouldn't you want one? Like, that's why I like them. That's why I would just say, premium, yeah. And now I'm not hurt. And I'm not hurt if I got a past Metallica premium because I never had any suggestion of any promise. The only way I would get a premium is if I couldn't get – if I could get all of the things just added to my premium later from the LE. But you just can't. So I own premiums, too. It's not the end of the world. But that's an interesting discussion nonetheless. But, no, I thought they weren't making LEs, more LEs. It's a different game. It's a different – Be careful with that. That's a different decade. People are not going to... If something said, I'll only ever make one of something and they make it, it doesn't matter if it's 50 years later. If the people that bought it originally are still alive, there will be some that will feel they were betrayed. I would advocate for them to make a Lord of the Rings LE.
    60:00
    100%. If they remaster it to the level of this, it's a different game. I will just note that they did not indicate. In fact, they were careful in how they hedged their language to make it clear that they were not applying this no new versions of LEs with the DMD title. So they did not break their word here over what that statement that everyone's getting hung up on or a few people are getting hung up on about. They did not. They've stuck with that. And I think that, you know what, more people want them to make cool shit than those that cry about them making new cool shit. I mean, a lot of people aren't in the market for whatever. these ends of stuff. But again, this is not... Look,
    60:42
    they are a business and do not think that they put honor above profit. They have raised LE counts before. What business does? There are plenty of businesses that keep their word. But this is par for the course for Stern. So don't be surprised. That makes it sound like they're not keeping their word. I would argue that they are. In the past, they upped their Munsters LE count after they announced an initial number. They did the same with Batman 66.
    61:09
    Yes. So any decision they've ever made in the future from here on out, we have to question their honor and integrity. I'm just saying that there's clearly a line and the dial's not on the 11 for most integrity. There's different leadership at this point. No, it is. I'm just saying that this company has done this in the past, so don't be shocked that they keep doing it. What about, if I want to fence it, I would say, how about the statute of limitations is entirety of an operating system? Why?
    61:45
    They didn't say that when they sold the original. That would be the thing. They need to say it in the terms when they sold the first LE. By the way, when we upgrade and board set, when your warranty expires, so does our promise.
    61:57
    Yeah, they could put in language like that. It sounds really mew-y mouth, but they could do it. I like the additions. I think they should keep doing the additions. I think the additions are great. Yeah. But making it... I already said it's a better game in basically every possible conceivable way, other than the subjective stuff like the art. I was surprised by how much throwback some hobbyists were providing with this. I was like, really? It's just a few. See, people... Again, it's the Internet. You know, a small number will... You know, they're post 20,000 times in the scene. The truth is Metallica remastered... Most people won't care. already been a certified freaking banger of a hit. People love this. And it is leaving other manufacturers who have already spoken with just almost deflated. Shit. This damn company can do this within a month of each other. Oh my god.
    62:55
    We're never going to win. We're never going to win. Do you really think they get that hung up on it. None of them have remotely the production capabilities of Stern. I've had manufacturers ask me, oh man, Stern feels like they're really pushing new products on you guys awfully heavily. They have to because games aren't selling. And I'm straight up with the manufacturers. I'm like, absolutely they are and it may hurt some dealers but I invite it. Until my numbers start, if I start seeing declination in numbers to a significant degree, maybe, but no.
    63:31
    Stern also is smart with how they conduct their business and them listening to hobbies, in my opinion. This last week or so, they issued the survey.
    63:41
    Yeah, the survey. The survey went out to, I don't know if this was tied to all those people who have signed up to just the Insider Program, because you said you didn't receive the survey. And after they hear this episode, I sure as hell ain't ever getting one from them. What?
    63:57
    I don't think you're getting an invite, though. Trust me, I'm not. I'm not trying to sell their games, and they can clearly tell that. The survey was an email link that they sent out. How brilliant is this? Damn, why other manufacturers have just been too hard-headed to do this? I don't know. So they sent out a big mail list and, like, what themes do you guys want? And you could have went in, you give your dream theme in an open response form, and then they go through an entire list, a checkbox list that you can check. This was really smart. I filled it out, and it was quite fun, to be honest with you. I'm glad you enjoyed it. They still missed plenty. Wow. They missed plenty. But that's okay. There's still a lot of good stuff in there. A lot of head scratchers, too. But a lot of good stuff. This last week, X-Men Ellie was streamed, Uncanny X-Men Ellie. So go watch it at Flippin' Out Pinball if anybody's wondering where they can catch the Uncanny Ellie. And I think that's enough talk about Metallica. I want to get into some pinball expo. You didn't go. No. But you were. I wasn't invited. You were there in my heart. 2024 Chicago Pinball Expo. Overall, a great event. Had a blast. It was nice. It was big. And there was room to move. That's what I appreciated about it. A lot of room to move. At TPF, one of the complaints is, like, it's become so big that, man, it's. They addressed that this last year. There was plenty of space in TPF. I heard it was still there. It's more crowded than Expo because it's a more popular show. Yes. The new leadership that's running TPF rearranged the room. It was a lot easier. The biggest issue, and I'll let you get back to Expo, the biggest issue is they're putting those spoken wheel setups of new games, like the Pulp Fiction stuff, they're putting them near the doors, and that's causing a problem. Otherwise, though, they're laying it out pretty well. but they need to get the big crowds away from the doors because people are just sort of sprawled out everywhere and you feel like you're cutting in front of them to get over to the old stuff. If we were comparing the two, I still think that there are pros and cons of TPF making it potentially a better show still. But Expo did come a long way year after year for the last three years, I would argue. I've heard that. This year was really great because it did have expansive room to move, but it was still filled. It wasn't like you had big dead areas or anything. The way that you could move in and out was nice. It wasn't just rows upon rows like a flea market or something. You could venture throughout different areas. It was great. Even the areas in like the homebrew was in its own area and some of the arcade stuff was in its own area. And I loved that I wasn't flooded with stupid like arcade games, old arcade games that I didn't come there for, or even new stuff. I wasn't flooded with a bunch of junk games because a lot of free play stuff was in an entirely different area. Its own room. Yeah. Get that free play stuff. I just peeked in there. I didn't even... Almost like the old Chicago Expo. I don't know if you remember that, but the old Expo had its own room and everything. The vendor area was great because even the video game stuff and the arcade stuff, it It was welcomed. Like, it was cool because there were things to buy and purchase. And the vendor area, I think the vendor area this year for Chicago Expo rivaled that, if not better, than TPF, which is exactly what Chicago should do because that's what it was known for in the past. Now, the competition area, I don't know. It was in a different area this year. so we'd have to listen to some of the other podcasts because I don't know how that went. But it looked like a large, large, big area that it was held in, but I don't know anything about that.
    68:01
    Wednesday I came up, just a quick rundown. Wednesday we came up, we went to that Stern Dealer Appreciation Event. Remember I was talking in the past, I never really had a conversation with George Gomez. I got to have that. George and Seth approached, and we talked for over half an hour, and it was nice. It was really really nice And I didn talk to Gary though Yeah see Everybody gives Seth grief Why Why is Gary Gary's turned into a hero. Remember when everybody crapped on Gary Stern all the time? Yeah, I do. Now, Seth comes in, and now Gary Stern's a hero, and everybody craps on Seth. Everyone thinks Seth's going to make them pay for DLC. Yes. That's where it's coming from. So they're pretty exactly angry at him. I found him to be a quite wonderful fellow. Did he promise he won't charge us for DLC? We didn't get into that, so I don't know. Okay, well. Seth has even been mad at me in the past, as ownership from every manufacturer has been. But he's done so in a professional way and worked through things. So I'm a fan, is what I'm saying. And George Gomez was delightful, as he always is. Thursday, I went to the Media Mixer 2.0. Oh, all that put together. Yeah, Kinesis. I didn't initially, I didn't sign up in time for it. And then I. So no pizza slices for you. It was going to be that way. That's the way it was looking. And wasn't planning on going. And then all our friends were like, we're going over that meeting. Make sure you need to come. And I was like, no, I didn't sign up. They were like, yeah, but you need to come. No, I'm not that person. Believe me. I hate that. I don't like that. Now you're going to explain how you became that person and then sign someone's forehead. To be fair, I did message Colin and said, hey. You know, my plans have changed. I would love to come. I didn't sign up for it, but I would love to come if you can. I ended up getting there, so it was great. It was a great showing, a great event. Had a couple too many bourbons, and I went to sleep early, but a great event Thursday. And then Friday came, we had a Jersey Jack dealer appreciation event. Always fun. Look, the listener, oh, man, if you guys love dealers, just imagine a whole fucking room of them together. I can just imagine all of you having special GJP training where you learn just the proper way to slap the side of the captain and go what's it going to take to get you into this baby oh man I love those events I just love those events I can feel I can feel those events when I'm in them I like those events to be more open air spaces gotta love the dealers and boy do they love man and then if we're talking about, let's jump into the games themselves. We talked about Metallica Remastered. That did not show up, listener, until Saturday on the floor. So I didn't really, I didn't get to play the game yet. I saw the line seemed pretty long for it. Yeah. I'm shocked. It was at the Stern Dealer thing on Wednesday night, but I was, you know, chatting Kathy too much and didn't get to play that. And then, so yeah, I'm not going to play it until the 1st of November, I guess. I wonder how it shoots. What with it being a new game and all You know what? I bet there was changes I bet not that you'll be able to tell Probably not Oh, everybody wanted to know Alice's Adventures in Wonderland Oh, yes I've been really harsh on this game Mostly because I have moral issues I listen to AGP Oh, okay Well, I mean, we talked about it, too If we rewind back to 162 of the pinball zone We were pretty strong with our concerns of not only the product, but the launch of the product. Yeah, but we hadn't seen it yet. We just saw the teaser. Yeah, we were soothsayers. We were trying to figure out, like... We didn't see the live gameplay.
    72:01
    Nor did we see the... We didn't see that trailer either. Oh, that's right. We missed the trailer, too. Oh, that trailer. I woke up this morning at 4. No one cares, but I'm going to tell you anyway. I woke up this morning at 4 a.m. because I had a nightmare about that Mad Hatter call out.
    72:18
    And I was like, oh, it was just a dream. The AI Mad Hatter can't hurt you. We'll get into that. But we were concerned that the code wouldn't be there. We were concerned about their production timeline. We were concerned about the quality. We were genuinely concerned. We had worries. and then once they showed the first thing they showed were pics and then this I am going to call it a trailer but I was sickened when I saw it yes I was it was such a visceral reaction I don't get nauseated from reveals I do just because it's something that I put time into well it's not your reveal no but it's like I've been involved with trailer reveals so I was sickened to see how let's say this with tact how unprepared how unpolished how, I won't even call it amateur because amateur would imply that you're really trying the product trailer promotional release of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland was a failure on many levels. Maybe they were going for like a found footage approach.
    73:40
    Even Blair Witch was like, damn, you got a shaky hand there. You're like, someone over there needs to stand in the corner is what they need to do. I don't know what the fuck they were doing. They were revealing. I would say to some degree, Dennis, you and I were correct in our concerns because if not only releasing the first impression of a product, if releasing in that poor of a quality, that's question number one. But to then decide to release that is the bigger issue for me. So that makes me think, what in the hell are you missing in your product? Because if that is acceptable,
    74:21
    then I really, really am concerned. So that was reinforced our concern. But then I thought, okay, is if you couldn't fuck it up bad enough, there was going to be a stream of Cary Hardy and Chris Cooler's Canadian Pinball Podcast. They were going to stream an interview-esque with the creator, Melvin Williams, of DPX. So, okay, well, at least we'll get more information, because that was a failed nightmare prior to in that trailer, in that launch, because this was an easy sellout. It was supposed to be an easy sellout. There was enough dopes like me that still like John Papaduke stuff and the lore and everything. Easy sellout. Then this game launches with that trailer, and it didn't sell out. No, no, no, no. It probably had 1,000 people on the list, but people quickly thought, oh, no. I am not buying that. Interesting. Because I had someone after my EGP episode email and say that it had sold out day one.
    75:32
    We'll get to that. Okay. But people on the forums were Mark Cuban-ing that shit like no other. They said, and for that reason, that trailer, I'm out. Like, no. It was bad.
    75:46
    But there was a lot of spinning. There was a lot of spinning. It sold out. And then people were like, but is it? And they're like, well, no, but it'll sell out. And then a couple hours later, it's sold out. Well, we've actually went to every website that sells this game, and they're all still for sale. Oh, well, shit. It's not sold out then, but it's close. That went on for, I think, into the second or third day. So ultimately, yes, I believe it did sell out. But do I know? Because the honesty around all of this, I have no clue. So I had people tell me they were sold out, and then I went to their website, and they were like, I'm still accepting $1,500 deposits. And I'm like, well, surely they wouldn't be accepting money if they were sold out. So that's a lie.
    76:33
    All right, so we have all that. And then the stream happened, and I was like, at least we'll know more information about what's going on. But then they thought it was a bright idea to, I think it was like 2 a.m. over in the Netherlands or wherever they were streaming from. And they were like. I haven't seen this. I've only read about it. Yep. And then somebody in chat or the host, somebody was like, play Freebird. And so they were wanting the stream of the gameplay because the trailer sure as hell didn't show anything. No, the trailer didn't show any gameplay, which was telling in and of itself. I don't know what that trailer was showing. So they were like, okay, let's yam can this son of a bitch. And why they didn't have it prepped. But again, decision making. If you don't have something prepped and ready, then simply say no or just don't do it. So they hovered around with this mobile phone or whatever it was, this Nokia 2617.
    77:29
    And it was bad enough that the production of the stream showing the gameplay was shitty, but the gameplay was shitty. They couldn't make a ramp. It was thudding and bricking everywhere. It was bad. They were opening up glass. Nope, it was horrible. And then more people Mark Cuban did. And for that reason, I'm really out now. It was a fucking mess. But yeah, it ended up getting sold out. And it was at the expo. It made it. All three of them made it to the expo. Here are my impressions on Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. Because I was going to wait in the big old long Disney line. But then somebody gave me a Genie Plus, and Melvin or Barry motioned me over and said, Hey, why don't you, here, we'll let you play this one that we didn't have out to the public right now.
    78:21
    And then I said, Hey, Joel, you and your brother are there. Come on over and play this with me. So we played, and when it comes to the layout of this game, it shot at least three times better than the trailer than anything. that I'd seen prior to. So I was initially like, oh, okay. This is actually not a bad shooter at all. I can confidently say, and a lot of people accuse me at Expo and on the forums, like, you're not selling it, so you're going to shit all over it. Yeah. I'm telling you listeners right now, this is not a bad shooter at all. I don't know what happened, what example they were shooting on, but that was a turd. this one shot very much like a John Pavadou game. It felt to me it wasn't as smooth as Theater of Magic, because that's John's probably arguably his best layout, but it was Circus Voltaire all day long. It was that level. So if anybody is concerned or worried about the way this game shoots, don't be. Because if you like those games, it was, dare I say, John Papaduke level of smooth, if you want to call that smooth. It shot good. I had no problems with the way it shot at all. There you go, Dennis. Boom. See? I'm a lover. Okay. I'm not a hater. I'm not a hater at all.
    79:50
    The topper. Let's keep on talking about things I love. The topper was freaking awesome. I love Pug Cat. Pug Cheshire. His little smushed face. I want to kiss him. Love the eyes and all of that. That played well. It looked really good. Don't want to get too far to the side because, you know, the cutoff half of it is kind of weird. I'd rather have his ass in just hanging off the back of it. But he's looking through the looking glass. Whatever. It's cheaper to make half of a model. I get it. But it worked. It looked awesome. And then people are like, well, wasn't it a beauty? Wasn't it beautiful? Didn't you love the way that?
    80:22
    No. The art still sucks. The art is such a letdown because it's trying to be beautiful. At least some games, like Legends of Valhalla, they know they ugly. They need to try to church it up. This game is trying to be elegant and sexy, and it comes across as trashy and like, ew. Yeah.
    80:46
    Everybody's like, oh, Alice is, you know, sexy. No. Oh, my Alice is sexy. I want her trashy. I can almost smell the cigarette from Alice's fingertips. fingertips like that's like that's enough as a previous smoker you know i'm not hating but and so then you were all like memories but no that and i'll i'm gonna focus pepperidge farm in marlboro man remembers camel joe camel now it it's still it did not look good the cabinet art and it did not look good. I don't. And people are like, oh, it's beautiful. I'm not saying, what I'm saying is it looked poor based on what they were trying to do.
    81:34
    What do you mean by that? Like, what were they trying to do and why does it fall short? They had artwork from, they had artwork from Zombie Yeti. Right. And that's exactly what they were trying to do. And they didn't swing and miss. They swung and fell on their ass. You can't replace Zombie Yeti with. They tried. With vampire Sasquatch. They tried. That's the problem I'm having. They tried. And that's what is so egregious to me. Oh, the inception moment. No.
    82:03
    I'm disappointed that you tried. The trying was the biggest issue. I think even going back, I could be wrong, but I believe that Jeremy Packer, a.k.a. Zamba Yeti, when he illustrated the back glass and some of the other conceptual elements of this home court game, he did so with the understanding that his line work was going to be used as a black and white illustrative art piece.
    82:30
    Reminiscent of, like, what is this, Lewis Carroll? Or who did the book? Yeah. So, like a literary piece of book, right? White and black line illustration. That's what it was supposed to be like. So when you take that and you bastardize it with your own colors and change it around to reflect your concept of what this story is, it fell flat. The play field artwork is not bad. That's fine. I'm good with that. I'm honestly good with it. Not great with it. I'm good with it. But everything else is a big no. The upper play field, everybody's like, good, that's the toy, the magnet upper play field. I didn't even get up there. I don't even know what to tell you. It didn't look like there was a lot to shoot up there because you got like a captive ball a la Sega Godzilla that hits them all back and forth. Yeah, okay. I wanted to ask you going up there because you're talking about how great it shoots. And I'm like, but like one-third of the upper play field is that power field. It shoots good, but that's the other issue I have with this game. The layout was very uninspiring. This layout worked very well In the physics But that doesn't mean necessarily It's fun to shoot It was pretty basic There's a middle ramp Felt almost bolstered Like a middle ramp And then you got this through the pop shot Which I like, I like through the pop shots And then a left dead end shot That nobody's ever going to like There's captive balls, which John Papaduke liked, but it lacked, like we said, it was going to, it lacked a toy or mechanism that was significant enough to set it apart from anything else. It was just an orbit, a ramp, and a couple scoops.
    84:20
    It really, it didn't do anything. There was nothing that set it apart, but it did shoot well. Does that make sense? Like, they can exist together. I, yeah, I guess I get where you're coming from When I'm thinking to myself The only, when you go up there and you're like Okay, I want to shoot this Games have that Boy X-Men's got that Avatar even has that This was like, I want to get to the upper play field And I just didn't And I know pinball well And I know that when I got up there I was going to Twilight Zone it Which is not my favorite part in Twilight Zone And that's it I'm going to come back down. This is a trophy. That's what this product is. It's a collector's trophy piece. Well, that's what, I mean, that's what Zidwar was meant to be, was just trophy pieces, limited trophy pieces. And everyone that seems to take anything from, even Deep Root with their numbers on Raza that were planned, were all designed just to make them be trophies. This was a competent pinball machine is what it looked like to me. I don't know if it's a, you know, $12,500. This reminded me, when I got my hands on it, of the difference between 90s games and modern games. And the misconception that a lot of people have that some of their favorite 90s games were loaded.
    85:44
    In people's minds, they're loaded with nostalgia. And that's what's really pushing your feeling that things were loaded. But if you look back, some of the games that people think were just so awesome, they weren't really that loaded at all. This game has sculpts that were beautiful on it But sculpts don't Pay the bills man We need something fun to shoot And I didn't really have it here That was Alice's Adventures in Wonderland For me, the code I don't know Just because I put the game on it I have no clue The animations I don't think were bad at all though And we'll talk about this theme In general of Pinball competency later on Especially in Pinball Market Trends But it was very competent. It was a very competent pinball machine, it seemed like to me. Like, okay, that's a pinball machine there. There's some cool stuff about it. But, man, I could list you 50 machines that are so much cooler and more fun. Well, thank you for the summary. Funhouse Remake, a lot of people got to play that for the first time. So that was there. ABBA was there. A lot of people got to play that for the first time. We've talked about that here. SpaceHunt, Dennis. I've even seen some people say positive things. I've seen these songs. SpaceHunt was there. You've got to enunciate. Space Hunt was there. It was in the Pensound booth without any representative from the Hexapinball family. Well, they have to travel far to get there. It was just sitting there by its lonesome. I went to play it and there was a ball stuck so I had to find somebody to get the key. It was a pretty little game, that old Space Hunt was. What a weird little booger of a game this was. I saw some people posting like making fun of Space Hunt being there and stuff so I was like alright, for the show I need to go look at this thing, put my hands on it, and play it. I walked up to him and I was like, this is a pretty little bitch here. I like this thing. It was all pink and everything and mirrored and the play field colors, and I liked it. And then even the layout, I was like, okay, that's interesting. All right, let's see how this shoots. I thought it was going to be clunkier than it was. I thought it was going to be more half-assed in the code department than it deserved to be. I was pleasantly surprised by this game. It still was not perfect by any means, but it was fun-ish.
    88:00
    It was a competent pinball machine. How did it shoot compared to Alice? I would say even. It shot just as well. I've heard some people say it shoots better than Alice. That was like the strong take by some people. I can't say that, but I can say that it was even. But it had more challenges than Alice did. Alice was more of an easier shooter, whereas this had an addictive shot. And I don't know, listener, if you're like me or Dennis, when you find a game with an addictive shot that is hard to complete, that alone can keep you coming back. This had a shot to the left of, it was a ramp shot, but to the left of it that was Houdini lock-esque tight.
    88:52
    But it had a drop target in front of it. When you hit that down, then you opened yourself up, and it would reset every ball. And you had to hit it perfect for it to have the kinetic energy to get up this long. And then it gets up to this upper play field that you can loop around, or like the – it was that – remember that tilt bob mech thing that was, like, in a hole that it dangled in? Oh, yeah, yeah. And we still – I still don't know what it's for. getting up there, I will say. It was stupid.
    89:19
    It's not that great. If you get it around a loop, that's fine. But it was like the anticipation of hitting that shot. It was the trip rather than getting to Wally World. Right. It's about the journey. But it was a cool layout and it very much surprised me. It was kind of a cool game. I'm not going to lie. But what was so special about it when I walked up and said I want to do that and that and that? Nothing. Didn't have it. It was a beauty. Another visually appealing product that was very competent in what it was doing. The art and the animation, surprisingly, really good on that game. Really, really good. The Hexapimble, I hope they keep doing whatever they're doing, and I hope that they focus more towards the States if they're looking to do mass production of products in general. I don't think this particular product is going to do much for the States at all, but people might take a flyer on it. I just don't see it. But I'm really interested in how they go about their second game. I think if they get some good guidance, then they could create probably something cool. Ninja Eclipse by Turner Pinball. Remember, I didn't get to play that iteration in Texas last year. Oh, yes. It was a year for me since I played this. Yeah, that one. So Texas this year, yeah, the big thing that was a takeaway from myself and a number of other people that I had spoken to was that a lot of people were comparing it to American Pinball's barbecue because this was the first time a lot of people played both of them. And the big takeaway was Ninja Eclipse had come a long way from what it had first been. I did not play the Whitewood version of Ninja Eclipse. I deliberately refused to because I was worried it would poison me against the game because I could tell it was very half-baked at that point. and I was in agreement that it was such a far more interesting game than Barbecue was and it was tough because a lot of them were near each other side by side everything about it was more interesting the last time I played this game was at Expo last year so when it had the little zizzle cabinet and it had it's quirkiness and it's issues it was still being thought through, I think. I don't know what iteration it was on. This one was substantially different. They had four of these set up. Chris Turner was there. I even spoke with Chris Turner at some length about the product and congratulated him. And I said, let's see if I can get my quote right. I said, congratulations, Chris. You have created a, what is that? I don't know how I described it. Essentially, a pinball machine. Yeah, you've created a legitimate. That's what I said. You've created a legitimate pinball machine. And I didn't mean a slight by that by any means because when I played it, it was a legitimate, competent pinball machine. The shots flowed great. If anything, it was on the easier side. And for that reason, people from Expo were talking about this game quite a bit. Because a lot of people didn't get to play it before. so this surprised them quite a bit. Kind of a darling of a game for a lot of people. So much so that Mr. Turner said they're going to sell all 100 games. Huh? Which, honestly, a year ago today would have surprised the hell out of me. I would have been surprised. And it played good. Oh, boy. Brad Duke.
    92:55
    Give yourself a pat on the back. You're the Duke. Sure. The Duke has got some skills in the art department. He's made a beautiful-looking game.
    93:05
    The details of it were very beautiful. And animation, whoever, I don't know if it's moving animation from stills that Brad's done. I don't know. But animation was beautiful. Playfield was beautiful. Cabinet was beautiful. It is just a beautiful machine. I would argue that, to me, it is a more beautiful machine than Alice's Adventures in Wonderland because it tried to do its own thing and it succeeded. Even if I enjoy the theme more of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, this is a nicer looking cabinet exterior package to me. And it's at a substantially reduced cost compared to that other game. Now what it is in the rules department It seemed pretty fleshed out There was a lot of stuff to do A lot of stuff to do in there Still a little bit on the easier shooter side for me I had some novel concepts in it Some magnet uses that I really liked Some scoop uses that I liked The side ramp was I think it's smart to have a side ramp that is Easily accessible and hittable But for my own personal playing pleasure I like a more difficult shooter But very competent game nonetheless. So much so that if any of you, look, a lot of people want a Ninja Eclipse. If you want a Ninja Eclipse, you're listening to this, you're like, you know what, I played it, I did like it, and I kind of want one of the hundred. But I also want the support of like a Flippin' Out Pinball in case you're a fan, contact us and Chris can confirm that Flippin' Out Pinball would be happy to assist you getting a Ninja Eclipse. Oh, how about that, Dennis? Huh? Okay. Doesn't mean I'm getting one, but, uh, eh. I thought about it. Let's talk about the homebrews. Did you see Saul?
    94:52
    Did you see Saul? Yes, I did. I was waiting for that one. I mean, I've seen Saul before. Seen Saul's seashells by the seashore?
    95:04
    You've seen Saul in the film or Saul the homebrew? Both. Okay. You've seen Saul. I've seen Saul. I didn't get to play it. Why? It was streamed on the Flippin' Out Pinball Twitch channel for their sixth annual Flippin' out Pinball Expo Tailgating Party. It was there. Thank you to the creators of Sol Pinball Machine for allowing it to be streamed at Beattie's place. That was awesome. And thank you, Beattie and Bill and everybody for holding that party. But yeah, I didn't get to play it. Dude, the line for Sol was long. Everybody wanted to play Sol.
    95:38
    It looked good, though. It was polished. That's another thing I'm going to talk about in the future here. It was a polished homebrew machine, so kudos. You know what everybody was talking about at Pinball Expo? They were talking about Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, and they were talking about Tony Hawk's Pro Skater? Oh, that was a very popular series of video games. Absolutely. Oh, man, everybody remembers playing that. It was like one of the most fun video games of all time, and they just didn't know when to quit making them. But I still have such strong memories of that game. But everybody kept telling me the first, second day of Expo, have you played that Tony Hawk game yet? I was like, no, I've seen pictures of it and stuff. Oh, my God, man, dude, go play that. So I finally stepped up to Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. What a unique and novel homebrew that this was. It was the darling of the event. Everybody talked about Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. almost to the degree that they oversold it to me. That was the problem because I was like, oh, shit, man. And there was always a line on it. So I went and played it. There are some things in geometry in this game, Dennis, that I hope pinball designers and manufacturers got to see so that they can utilize or they can take risks for. There was some cool shit in this game, and it was theme appropriate too. It felt like a skate park. And a lot of the things were so new and different. See, there's a juxtaposition between playing something like a Space Hunt, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, to some degree Ninja Eclipse. When I walked up to this, I thought, oh, damn, I want to shoot that, that, that, and that. There's like four different things that I thought, I've not seen that before. I wonder how that works. that loop-de-loop that goes to an upper play field, to an upper flipper, to a vert ramp that kind of launches your ball into the out lane, and Jack Danger dead flips it, posts it up into play again, to a spinner, spinning disc mechanism that also had a vertical spinner that was a skate deck that you could hit. There was just some really compelling ideas in this game. So I definitely see why people told me, have you seen that Tony Hawk game yet? That thing kicks ass.
    98:06
    What I will say about it is it does kick ass, but it is rough right now. It is rough. So I told the individual because he was interested in my feedback, and I said, because he's from St. Louis, I believe. I was like, man, I don't know what your plans are for this, but selfishly I hope that you just keep working on this thing, and I want to see where this is at next year.
    98:35
    Again, I don't know what his plans are, but that game could be phenomenal. But it is not, in my opinion, close to being there yet.
    98:45
    So it was not a polished product. Friday the 13th, people have been talking about it before. This is not a new homebrew thing. But I'm going to give this person credit. Friday the 13th was freaking clean and it shot maybe smoother than any homebrew that I had played in a while. It was just a clean, solid. This guy knows how to make pinball homebrews, apparently, because this game was freaking cool. It was nothing like crazy about it geometry-wise or toys-wise or anything, but it was just very fleshed out and almost as if I took a new person in pinball and I said, hey, here's the new manufacturer game Friday the 13th. They'd believe it. So, nicely done Friday the 13th The Greatest Showman I think that won best in show for the homebrew I may be wrong It's the name Yeah, that works What a weird theme But this one was near and dear to the creator So I can respect the hell out of that Didn't get to play it, again Line on there a lot But the guy's from Indy, so I'll be able to play it I know him well So, Greatest Showman was a beauty but it was like kind of re-themed from Whirlwind.
    100:00
    It's the same as Soul, I believe. What is it with Whirlwind that people just want to re-theme all the time? I mean, it is one of the most popular System 11 games. It's a good shooter, yeah.
    100:11
    So The Greatest Showman, people were praising that. I was wanting to see more than anything Harry Potter. I think it's Kyle Reed. He's been working on this Harry Potter game that looked like a Jersey Jack pinball machine in all of his workings thus far over the last year or two. It doesn't look like it. It's not Hogwarts Legacy. So this was so well done in his last year of working on this, of them watching his journey, creating this thing. It was so well done that I was already bummed out about a future Harry Potter pinball machine just because I didn't think it could ever measure up to what this fucking homebrew was going to be. That's how high praise I had for this machine. It was not playable, though, at Expo. It was there for visual purposes only, and it was still very in the homebrew production, you know. Hopefully this thing will get to working at some point in time. Different cabinet dynamic so that this entire world of Harry Potter can fit into it, But I really, really encourage any and every one of you that are interested in Harry Potter pinball to go check out this individual's. I can't wait to play this game. If that person is listening that created Harry Potter, please.
    101:31
    It's like in the new theme park at Epic Universal. Like, I want to be one of the first. Please. What do we need to do to make that happen? Because, damn, it looks cool. And then Mothership. Did you see Mothership? This big old Hercules-like monster. No. monstrosity. It was like somebody remastered Hercules. Hercules remastered was mothership. Somebody took the time and energy to create a Hercules style with the cue balls and ramps and stuff like that.
    102:00
    Ask me why they did that? No fucking clue. I seen it and I was like, wow, that looks like just as much a waste of time as Hercules was.
    102:13
    So, They did it, and they succeeded. But, yeah, it looked like Hercules in 2024, for whatever it's worth. I'm not trying to be shitty. I'm just saying, like, why? Dennis I learned at the Chicago Pinball Expo this year that homebrews vastly differ in stages Like that was my take point Remember in the past homebrews I was like I kind of poo homebrews I was like eh you know that a good project you got working there in your garage here But I'm walking away from this. This is a good and bad thing, that homebrews vastly differ in stages. And thus, I think they should be judged differently. I no longer will take the word homebrew and believe it to be the same thing. I really won't. This has always been true. And for me, it's because the differences in what people see as homebrew are vastly, dynamically different. Like some projects I've found don't even intend to be polished. Or they do intend to be polished, but the person's just not equipped to be able to make them polished. Nor do they even see there being issues. Some of them, you heard it here, strong take. Some of these homebrews are fucking junk, and they're not going to ever be capable of being more than junkyard junk.
    103:38
    You heard it. I'm sorry. Let's just call it as it is. But some of these projects are like in the space of continuation. They're bringing them there. They're showing the work in progress. Oh, you went to Pentast. Did you see that there? Well, look at the progress I've made thus far, right? Now, personally, I'm not sure why they do this, but I'm sure there is a reason why they want to show the different iterations of it throughout different progress.
    104:04
    Is there a reason? Why do they do it, Dennis? Well, I mean, it could range as much as they're relying on basically crowdsourcing the feedback. Okay. It's an easy way with their project to get into the show for free. Oh, okay. So, yeah, so there's probably benefits to it. I feel like it just shows my nakedness too much. I'm too insecure to be showing my innards like that. And it's a tight-knit community, like the homebrew folks. Like, all the shows do a homebrew row. They group them together. They know each other. It's a club.
    104:40
    There's probably a lot of pride about going to the effort of doing your own game because it is a lot of work. Even if it's a re-thing, it's a lot of work. So there's a lot about it. And then some of the projects are resumes. Like, I can tell you it's a resume. This is me trying to get into the industry or trying to see how I stack up to industry standards. They're polished in a way that are even like fairly close to starting the production discussion. They'd likely show weaknesses. They could but they could be like a great jumping off point to consider for production. So no longer will I judge homebrew as the word just homebrew. No, no, no. So, yeah, it was interesting that I spent more time with homebrew stuff, but I leaned towards the stuff that I've seen the creator, like, have a keen eye to detail and want to follow through with that. And then there was non-homebrew, like Chicago Gaming Company. Did you see they, like, I don't know if they announced this, But the enhanced kit for Cactus Canyon Remake. Yeah. They announced the announcement. I don't know what. No, I don't even know when it's going to be announced, but they showed it. They showed it. But then they announced the rules and the code differences, which were pretty expansive. I'm excited. I'm so excited about this thing, listener. I'm amazed you've been able to sustain your excitement for years. I know. I've been just itching. I'm like, come on, show them, show them what you got. And the saloon entrance is like this new mechanism you add. And then it has this adjacent sheriff badge in the loop. It looks like a sheriff badge, but it's a spinner. It's freaking awesome. Who wouldn't want to add something significant like this to their game? Plus, you get all new rules and wizard modes and challenge modes and cool multiballs, all this shit. This is going to be a winner. But, like, why in the fuck are you showing it? I don't understand any of this. Am I taking crazy pills, Dennis? No word on production timeline. No word on pricing. I have no clue. I don't know what they're doing.
    106:52
    Well, I mean, do they know what they're doing? Hell no. It's so frustrating. I mean, here's the good news. I think with this, you know, as cool as all of this is, I mean, they'll be able to put it in the Cactus Canyon remaster edition. Oh, no. Because I think we're pretty much at the point where we could sell a new game and you would call it a totally different game. I do not care because they clearly don't care. At this speed, how can I think that they care? I can't argue against that either.
    107:24
    And this is, tell me, from one of the biggest advocates of season two. If I owned it on the promise that I would have this expanded code and all the rest of it, I would be beyond insulted and mad right now. I don't know what they're doing. Like, why are you showing your cards? Why aren't the cards already dealt? Know when to hold them and know when to fold them. And know when to show them.
    107:45
    And this is not the time to show them. Unless you're taking orders. Why do I have to say this to people so much? I don't know. That's all I want to talk about. Because I don't know. It looks cool as hell. And guess what? Everybody wants to buy it, but they can't. So they're going to get tired of thinking about it. So I don't know. So I would say if you're going to launch this, wait three months so that people have forgotten about it again. And they're excited. Well, wait some more. Let's wait some more.
    108:14
    Remember last TPS episode we had the exclusive content for members only that we went over the top 100, question mark, from the Pinside Top 100. And we reorganized the top 10 list. People liked it. Of course they liked it. That's why I said let's do it. People liked the segment. And it stirred up more interest than I thought it would. I know it was damn good, but, yeah, people like it. People feed off that stuff. We'll have to re-follow up on that. We're going to in the future. But I wanted to say David reached out on Patreon, one of our members, and said he really, really great show, guys. I certainly don't agree with everything, but very good discussion. Most of my tastes are mainstream, but some of the exceptions, there are some exceptions, of course. Number one, he said, look, guys, Elvira, House of Horrors, it's easily a top five, so much better than Medieval Madness, Monster Bash and Attack from Mars?
    109:06
    Hashtag story. You're wrong. I don't know. That's just a little teaser. If you guys want to hear more of the top 10 list that Dennis and I accumulated through a Pinside Top 100, you're going to have to be a member of the Pinball Show Patreon. All you got to do is go to patreon.com slash thepinballshow and sign up. It helps support the show. You get Discord discussions and content. You get at certain levels, you get happy or hangouts. You get to hang out with us live every month. You get maybe one-on-one gossip and industry juice.
    109:41
    You get nicknames. You get all kinds of stuff. Swag. But sign up today. It helps us out immensely. And you get exclusive content. Last episode, it was top 100? This week, exclusive to the Pinball Show Club members is a discussion about American pinball. Dun-dun.
    109:59
    We're just calling it The Nordman Speaks. What do you think that could be about, Dennis? I know exactly what it is.
    110:09
    David Fix has found himself in hot water again, ladies and gentlemen. This time from, we call it former AP designer, Dennis Nordman? Yeah, I think that's fair. Or on hiatus? I don't know. Dennis Nordman came out publicly and said, hey, I listened to this one podcast. I think it was Pinball News, Pinball Podcast, Pinball Magazine Podcast. Uh, yeah, yeah, I believe so. It was a podcast. I think it was, yeah. And David Fix said this, and then he quoted what David Fix kind of said. I mean, he straight up word quoted it, and he was like, yeah, so that's all wrong. That's not what happened at all. And then he explains what really happened, which ends up making David Fix look like he wasn't telling the truth, which makes them look bad, which makes them kind of look like they didn't have the money to pay Dennis Norman, Is that fair?
    111:03
    Yes. So, we're going to discuss that in length for our Patreon members, and you're not going to want to miss that. So, go to patreon.com slash the pinball show. And thank you for doing so. We've got to thank particular members of the Screaming Goat Club.
    111:20
    They are the top donators and lovers, and we want to thank them, like Rodney. We've got to thank Rodney.
    111:28
    He's the bobcat over at the pinball show. Shoot that fucker! Thanks again, Rodney. Steve, we want to thank you and show our appreciation, not only for your work in Hollywood, but also for your support of the Pinball Show. Stunt of a Bumblebee, you. I re-watched the first three Transformers movies a couple weeks ago. It's on my list. It's on my list to watch with my kids. I've been wanting to watch that with my son, especially. Rob, I want to thank you. Rob! I would watch a movie with Rob. What would Rob want to watch? Anchorman. 60% of the time, it works every time. Absolutely. Frank, we want to thank you as well for being a Screaming Go Club member. Frank, if I sat down and watched a show with you, this is a deep cut here, but it shows my Disney love. It would be Rescuers Down Under.
    112:14
    Very Australian. And it's because, I don't know if there was a falcon in there, but there was an eagle and there was a, I don't know. I just, I love Disney stuff. Dave, I want to thank you for not only contributing to disagreeing with us on our exclusive content, but also for being the shaker motor that you are here at the pinball show.
    112:36
    Cocktail. That's perfect. The Tom Cruise classic. There's no better one than that. Didn't it have an Aussie in it, too? Yep. I thought so. Was it the same? I think. Shit, it may have been the same Aussie voice. I think it did, too. It's been a long time. I'm not sure. Joe, you're with your Foxiness. We want to thank you for the support.
    112:57
    I sat down with Joe Fox. We would probably just bullshit and talk the whole time And we would watch the movie and then we'd get up and Go have a drink and play some pinball Charlie Thank you for the continued support Charlie Where in the hell were you at Expo? Come on man You think Charlie bought a Metallica?
    113:17
    I'm trying to think now that all these guys Rodney Steve Rob Frank Dave Fox Oh, shit. What about the dude? Did the dude buy? Yes. Yes, he did. Of course he did. The dude always buys. Always buys. I think I made that joke before. You did, isn't it? Perfect. Every time William buys a game, I'm going to do it. Oh, fuck it. Yes, that's your answer. That's your answer to everything. I'll tell you what. If I was watching a movie with the dude, no, it wouldn't be the Levowski. It would be Raising Arizona. That's what it would be. Really? Yeah, I love the Coen brothers. They're my favorite characters. I love them. That's such a weird movie. Careful, because this is one argument that I'll win with our viewers. You will? Most of them don't. I've never heard anyone ask for Raising Arizona the pen. Oh, my God. Email thepenballshow at gmail.com. Not that they want the penball machine, but they will confess their undying love for Raising Arizona.
    114:21
    All right. Discord. What have we been talking about in Discord? We've been talking about mostly Alice in Wonderland. Yes. And old cigarettes. Yes. And a lot of lizards.
    114:31
    Sorry. Also, a reminder that the next Pinball Show Live Happy Hour Hangout is scheduled for this Wednesday, October 23rd, 8 to 9 p.m. Central. Already up on the Patreon, so people that are Nordman level or higher can see it and see the link. You know what I loved? Our regulars at the Happy Hour Hangout, people like Adam, people like Marlon. I got to meet them in person at Expo. Oh, that's fun. It was so, so cool. So thanks again. Did you sign their foreheads? No. I feel so bad for that dude. I can't believe you said that. I almost wanted to pay. There was this young kid that I was waiting for Ninja Eclipse. And this young kid, if you ever listen to our – man, if you listen to this podcast, I love you. You made me look so fucking good. I was sitting there, and I noticed Chris Turner at the corner of my eye, like, waiting to play this game. And we talked business before. We've talked media stuff before. And this kid gets done playing, and he turns around like he's fucking seen Brad Pitt, Dennis. And he was like, oh, my God, you're Jack. Oh, my God. Almost to the point that I was like, kid, I'm fucking nothing. Like, I think you got the wrong person. I don't know who you think you're seeing. but pulls out, stumbles, shaking his hands, pulls out this little thing for, I want your autograph. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. And made me look so good. So, kid. So, how old was this kid? I owe you 20.
    116:04
    He had to have been, like, maybe 13. Kid, you should not be listening to this show. Yeah, that's true.
    116:14
    Fuck off, kid. No, he's good. Put some hair on your chest, boy. No, we're not. I don't think we're a good influence. What? We are too successful. Maybe we are. I think we're bad. I think we might be the bad guys. Yeah, I'm thinking we're bad.
    116:34
    No, I think we're good. So Chris was nice enough to go get a Sharpie and, yeah, signed his thing, whatever he wanted. Oh, my God. But, honestly, the reason I'm bringing this up is because you don't see too many young kids in pinball, especially at, like, a convention like that. So I encourage that kid. You do a TPF. That are, like, really into it. They're all into it. Yeah, I don't. They just come with their dad. They win all the tournaments. Those kids, sure. And they shrug at all the themes that we go on and on about, like, back to the future. This kid made my day, though. I was like, please, I want to see you here next year. Like, please keep playing pinball. Like, we need people like you in pinball. Please keep it going. So it made my day. I loved it. That was fun. You know what makes a lot of people's day, including that kid alone? He emailed me and said, I don't like market trends. It's the influence. It's the love. Even fucking Chris Turner. No, Chris Turner hates market trends too. Even Chris Turner loves it. I can feel it. I can feel it in my bones. Simba Market Trends! That's what everybody does. The Pop-Tart Techno-Works!
    117:50
    I like your style, dude. You know, we didn't do it last week, or last two weeks ago, and there wasn't a single complaint. You know how many buckets of tears I received? I don't know. I don't know. Turning up this week is What Game? One Expo! People are speculating. people are incorrectly giving their answers on other podcasts. Is it James Smoking Alice?
    118:17
    It's not. What game was it? Space Hunt? Oh, enunciate, please. We're really going to be a bad influence on old, what's his name?
    118:28
    Billy. It's got to be Billy. Eric Head Under 15 is Billy. I pat him on the head. Did you toss all his hair? Did you all hair toss him? Run along, boy. And then I paid him 20 behind the hour. He's really like a 40-year-old man. I'm like, thanks, dude. Thanks for making me look good. No, what game? One Expo. Numbers don't lie. I only report the facts. Drum roll, please. Was it Metallica Remastered? Was it Apple? Was it Space Hunt? Was it Ninja Eclipse? Was it Metallica? Was it Allison? You said Metallica. I know. What are you trying to sell the most of? I'm giving it back, Metallica. It was the uncanny X-Men, baby. Really? With a .2 code that everyone's complaining about. Say what you want, Dennis. Coming away from the Pinball Expo, most people, out of everybody that told me, the one question I always ask people, what have you fallen in love with? What are you thinking about? What is this X? And the majority of people overwhelmingly said Uncanny X-Men is the coolest game ever. People loved it. And it did not surprise me at all because whenever I told them what game I've been loving the most, it was Uncanny X-Men as well. And you can't really argue it because everybody at the expo was like, when they got their hands on it for the first time, this game is a rock star. This game shoots so freaking great. People loved Uncanny X-Men. objectively.
    120:02
    I mean, I wasn't there. I'm not going to criticize what won. I don't know. That game won Expo. And subsequently, Stern Pinball wins Expo as well because they hit people with the one-two punch of that in Metallica Remastered.
    120:16
    It's almost not fair anymore. This is getting out of hand. Had American Pinball been there, maybe. Oh, they were there. They had a booth. I meant with a new game. They had an arcade machine. They were there. Not with their discount on the tank version of gtf pin a weed sale pin the ween sale all turning up this week is what i'm going to give an award i'm going to call my pleasant little surprise queen of hearts she wasn't surprised no but my pleasant little surprise this expo was none other than space hunt oh my god not only was competent, but it was addictive. It had that addictive little thing on it. And it was beautiful. It was beautiful. It didn't even try to be like, hey, look how beautiful I am. It was the French. It was like, it pulled off a dragon, a cigarette, and it said, if we just do this shit, this is how we are. This is what we do. Take note, Fiverr zombie yeti.
    121:21
    Vampire Sasquatch. That's right. We have taken, I think they're, aren't they French? I think Hex are Pimble. Yeah, they are. We don't even want the Medicans to buy our shit. We don't care how many we sell. This is what we do. It was awesome. That was my pleasant little surprise award. Doesn't mean I want to buy one. Doesn't mean I'm recommending you buy one. I'm just saying I was ready to shit on that game, and I can't because it was very much a sweet, pleasant little surprise. Also trending out this week is pinball competency. We've talked about it, and I'm taking away from Expo and just the 2024 in pinball as there are many competent games right now being produced. I don't know how many are going to sell. I don't know what companies are going to last. But nonetheless, the level of pinball competency is very high right now. So congratulations. So, but why is this new to you? I don't understand because I'm thinking in the mirror that I use to watch TV backwards. Oh, mirror, mirror on the wall. And I look and I see straight down the middle and I can't remember the last game that didn't get a B+. Because all of the newcomers that come, they're doing pretty well. Like, remember Cosmic Carnival? Yeah, but this is not a new thing. Remember Cosmic Carnival? According to SDTM, there have been many competent games forever now. There have been. These newcomers have been crashing and burning, but what I'm saying is even the smallest of small are finding a way to create competent, well-rounded pinball machines. Okay. Yeah. All right. Unfortunately, trending down, Dennis. So sad. Maybe you'll comment here. Unfortunately, trending down this week is pinball competency. This doesn't make sense. This is what I do. This is some Charles Dickens bullshit. Best of times, worst of times. Tom Bombadil. Not Tom Bombadil. It doesn't have anything to do with Dickens. Don't ever mention them together. Dickens is a hack writer. I want to sing that song. I love the Tom Bombadil song. Which song? The one he actually sings in Rings of Power? Or do you mean the one that Leonard Nimoy used to sing about Bilbo Baggins, which didn't really have anything to do with Tom Bombadil? It's the Rings of Power one. I figure. I'm in love with that series. I think it's the greatest series of 2024. I mean, we still got a couple months left, but it was everything to me. I should trend that up. It was so good. House of Dragon wasn't shit to this. Put a series up to this. Nothing is even close to Reigns of Power. It was that freaking good. It's like watching a full-length film every single time you tuned in. Oh, it was so good. All right. Turning down this week's pinball competency. And the tagline to that is, we need more in 2024. That's the new thing. Pinball competency is turning down. because people are creating cognitive mobile machines, and they still aren't great. Like, theme misses. The space? What? Why are you wasting your money? Themes are just swinging and missing left and right. Alice's Adventure in Wonderland is a theme, but the integration was poorly done. We've got Ninja Eclipse.
    124:35
    What is that? No! Theme misses all around. And even more so. That was just, that's the low-hanging fruit. But the deep tater here is layout complacency, Dennis. X-Men? Layout complacency. X-Men? X-Men is looking at you and saying, hold my gold rings. Exactly. And that's why I'm boosting up things like what Stern Pinball is doing. Five, ten years ago, we all said Stern has become complacent. They don't put anything in their games. They are taking in the game from 11 years ago and redoing it. And doing it better than even the newest ideas in this industry. Layout complacency. It is hilarious to me. Toys just re-skin to be better. No, no. A masterpiece for a masterpiece. If you're coming out with a new product and a new company, and you give me this vanilla bullshit, go home. Go home. When Stern Pinball is leading an industry in tech, innovation, toys, mechanisms, go home, people. JJP used to have a score bed.
    125:37
    I'm not even... There's no people mad about that. What? Alice's Adventures in Wonderland has nothing in it toys-wise. It's got nothing. The layout is mundane. It's just a layout. Ninja Eclipse, it's just a layout. Space Hunt, it's just a layout. There's nothing that we play anymore. What the hell is going on? Alice, Ninja, Space, they're all the same. They're all the same. We're taking crazy pills here. Sam, you're changing the art on the cabinet and you're calling it a new offering? No. I can't. I can't do it anymore. Pinball competency. Guess what, companies? I know that you can make a pinball machine. You've now proven it. No one's going to buy your shit. Just turn pinballs cranking up best games ever. They actually have the coolest layouts and the coolest toys and mechs. Name a company that's doing it better, Dennis.
    126:28
    They're not. Nobody. Williams. I'm making slot machines. My dad has the coolest slot machines ever. So, what I mean by all this in summary.
    126:41
    Like, okay, I will give you guys praise that you were able to bring to market some pinball machines. Even some of you home brewers out there, you've done good looking like you've created a polished pinball machine, but you guys are missing what makes pinball so great in 2024, and that is unique layouts and toys and mechanisms, making a metal ball do cool stuff. You're missing all of that. You're giving us a bunch of artwork, and you're giving us mundane layout and rules. Like, hey, I can hire somebody to do animation. Good for you. I want something cool to happen. I don't know. To me, a good shooting layout in and of itself that looks like it's from the 80s, I don't care anymore. Take some chances. All trending down this week. Dennis, you've told me I had to do this. Pensizers told me I had to do this. Even people at Expo told me I had to do this. Turning down this week is OG Metallica by Stern Pimple. There it is. You have to. It has to. Numbers don't lie. I only report the facts. And all of you with those Metallica LEs out there, we mourn for you today. As we lie to rest. Your old, smaller chord magnets with playfields now showing where around it. To our upgraded magnets and Metallica remastered. Bastard. Gone are you, Orange DMD. We lay you to rest today, as your high voltage is no longer needed. They used a red DMD.
    128:13
    But the LCD screen, which is actually cheaper than the Starry Part, much more beautiful and technologically advanced. From the 60s! Didn't you come out in the 60s?
    128:28
    Gone are you, leaderboards at the end of the game. We have Anxiety Connected now, and we don't want to share the kids for the weekend. I'm sorry. And I lay you to rest, Erty Donny. We loved you, but the low-quality print that we've seen on your Metallica used to be cool. But now, it's just cartoon rat rod stuff, and we need more in 2024. We need more in 2024. We need more. Who wants an old Metallica now? I'm trying to sell one. No idea. Buy it. Damn it. No buy it for Wes. I almost like, on a future podcast, we need to start putting these manufacturers in levels. Why? Because I think, like, there's a certain level of manufacturing. Because people like, I think Stern's on its own level. It's like a level S. But, like, then the level below it, who's in that level A? Skyward Gaming I don't even put anything out Barrels of Fun Pinball Jersey Jack Spooky Those would be my arguments Level D Pinball Brothers Pedretti Gaming American Pinball Dutch Multimorphic Level D I've thought about this a little bit Level C would be like The Turner Pinballs of the World Hector Pinballs And There is a Level D That's Home Pin And like Pinball Adventures I think we should start using a level system like this because I think that's pretty accurate. Email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. So training up is a new classification of levels for manufacturers that I've developed here.
    130:09
    I don't know what I call it yet. You can email me that as well. But look, as always, I'm just here to report facts because numbers don't lie. Neither do I. Pinball market trends. Caw, caw.
    130:22
    Let's close it. close it out. Are you going to buy yourself a Star Wars comic? No. That game has never been my style. I'm sorry. I just don't like plunging into the outline. So, no. Never. Or it could be then. You can reach out to me at eclecticgamerspodcasts at gmail.com You can also hit us up at thepinballshow at gmail.com Sign up to Patreon. Help support us at patreon.com slash thepinballshow. We give you the goods as well as straight down the middle video series I do on YouTube. Go like, follow, and subscribe, as well as the Pinball Show on Facebook and Instagram, YouTube, and all that. And also, Flippin' Out Pinball is the sponsor of this lovely program. When I buy my pinballs, yeah, I buy from Flippin' Out. From Topper, Topper, Tri-O, I've got it figured out. Flippin' Out, out, figured out, out. When I take a pinball, I take it out. Flippin' Out, out, figured out, out. When I buy, buy, I buy from Flippin' Out. Product showcase this week has got to be Metallica Remastered. I do still, I don't have any LE spots, but I have some first run premium spots that are going pretty quick. So jump on that with free shipping right to your door. I might be able to save you a little bit if we ship it to a terminal and you want to pick it up there, pick it up at my place. Let me know. You can email me at ZachZHUH at flip the letter N out to pinball.com or text me at 812-457-9711. We also are still having our Playfield promo. Remember that X-Men and Metallica orders are not eligible for this Playfield promo. But, yeah, if you buy a new Stern game, we will add a decorative Playfield as part of the purchase. So, congratulations. We still have, I think, a handful of those left. So, if you're going to buy a pinball machine within the next week, a month or so, just buy one now and get you an extra Playfield. We do have Uncanny X-Men Ellie's still in stock Grab one of those before they're gone Because they're gone at Stern And they're pretty They were awarded Game of the Expo by the Pinball Shows Act Buy, buy, buy! Avatar Ellie's, we have some of them in stock Elton John's, I think we're getting low on those But we have those All the games, just get them here If you want a future released game or a rumored game We had a lot of people ask Hey, can I get on this list after going to Expo? So get on the list by emailing us today. Another common question I received is, hey, when are Pulp Fiction LEs going to be made? I don't know. That's your answer. And the Big Buck Hunters, Stair Climbing Hand Trucks, we'll be happy to help you with any accessories, toppers, whatever you want, whatever you need. Flippin' Out with Friends, we do more than just sell you a damn game of Flippin' Out Pinball. We provide content such as this podcast and Flippin' Out with Friends with Joel Engelberth. Man, he's a blue chip. He's doing well in the industry right now. People are loving them some angle birth. And then tutorials that he does. He just released an Uncanny X-Men tutorial and an Avatar tutorial.
    133:24
    Dennis is going to brush up on those whenever he goes to League Night next. So check those out. Like, follow, and subscribe there as well. I don't know what Joel is streaming this week. What do you think we should give him, Dennis? Maybe an ABBA? I mean, no one's going to buy it, so sure. He'll be my dancing queen. Teach these people something. No, I can't. I need them to teach me. I need, what will be, I want to know what will be the next remaster that the LE buyers of old will be upset about. Will, I mean, the low-hanging fruit logic would be, you know, we're thinking Sam System, ACDC, or Star Trek, but both of those had volts. Same with Iron Man, but they were all deeply, could you imagine, like, how much more plastic they could make those plastic ramps on Iron Man to appeal to people? Here's what I think. I think they skip the Sam's, go straight to Spike 1, and finally do Ghostbusters. But ban him, ban him. And maybe they fix that flipper gap, and then they'll call it a whole new game, and it would be a better argument than they had here. I don't think that they need to fix the flipper. You used to argue that all the time, that that gap was too big, and you wanted it fixed. For sales, yes. Yeah, but that's what you're all about. We just wrapped you a 10-minute plug for flipping out pinball. My heart is a pinball, Dennis. Magnetic?
    134:48
    That's my wallet. No. All right. So, yeah, everybody, practice safe pinball and no longer be impressed with pinball competency. We need more in 2024.
    135:03
    It's almost 2025. I'll change it then. What rhymes with five? Thank you, Wally. I'm typing rhymes with five. Rhymes with five. If only you had come up with this like in November of last year, but nope. I'll remaster it.
    135:17
    A whole new episode. That's it. There are another two and a half hours of recording. Man, we had such a perfect title for last episode. Man, Alice Does Wonderland. I had to make sure I didn't use it for my EDP episode because it's such a good title. I can't take it, though. I talked to Ron Hallett this weekend, and we probably chatted for like 20-plus minutes, and he was like... I like Ron. I do, too. Love me some Ron. He was an extra spicy meatball on the last Slam Tilt. He sure was. Yeah, it's usually Bruce's job, too. Yeah. But at least I was like, Bruce says some things that are so offensive to people, but it just doesn't stick. He doesn't get canceled. I was like, if I said half of this stuff, he was like, oh, no, absolutely. You would be slayed. I'm like, I know. What the hell? But, yeah, I was talking to him. He was like, I'm so pissed at you, Zach. He was like, Alice Does Wonderland, I had that fucking title. He was like, that was my title. And he was like, and you came and took it. He was like, I was so mad. You stole it. Yeah. Like, ah, man.
    136:33
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