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The Pinball Show Ep 5: Feeling Slap Happy During A Global Pandemic

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·57m 54s·analyzed·Mar 16, 2020
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Pandemic impact on pinball industry: show cancellations affect manufacturer reveals, supply chains, and market dynamics.

Summary

The Pinball Show discusses the COVID-19 pandemic's impact on the pinball industry, including cancellations of Texas Pinball Festival and Midwest Gaming Classic. Hosts analyze how show cancellations affect manufacturer reveals (Haggis/Kelts, Deep Root, American Pinball/Hot Wheels, Jersey Jack/Guns N' Roses), supply chain decisions, and market sentiment. They debate whether the pandemic suppresses sales (market uncertainty) or boosts them (home entertainment demand), and discuss implications for show organizers and future events like Chicago Expo.

Key Claims

  • Stern Pinball was planning a new release within a couple of weeks of the podcast date and had internal meetings debating whether to delay or reveal during the pandemic.

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell citing Dwight Sullivan's response in a Twitch chat about Stern leadership considering release timing during COVID-19.

  • American Pinball's Hot Wheels pricing is rumored to be around $6,200 but official pricing had not been announced.

    medium confidence · Kaz (American Pinball correspondent) reporting rumors pending official statement.

  • Haggis (Deep Root) is offering a special limited-time deal: $6,250 for fully optioned model with custom trim, toy kit, free worldwide shipping, and Clan Haggis membership (valued at ~$2,000 savings).

    high confidence · Direct quote from Damien in interview segment about special offer running from TPF to MGC period.

  • Jersey Jack Pinball's move to Elk Grove Village from New Jersey may benefit from the pandemic shutdown by allowing them to relocate without production pressure.

    medium confidence · Ken Cromwell's speculation that JJP's timing of relocation coincides advantageously with pandemic closure.

  • The used pinball market saw a slight uptick after show cancellations due to people expecting extended home time.

    medium confidence · Zach Menne observing recent sales trends in distribution context.

  • Stern Pinball sent out a customer survey asking Stranger Things owners to download game audits via USB and email data back to Stern.

    high confidence · Craig Bobby (Stern News Correspondent) reporting on survey, speculation about code improvement vs. other purposes.

  • Deep Root (Kelts/Haggis) took a mystery third playfield approach to appease Zach Menne, to be revealed in upcoming video.

    medium confidence · Damien's comment to Dr. John about third playfield being made to appease Zach.

  • Hot Wheels had a soft public reveal at Amusement Expo International Trade Show in New Orleans, potentially a strategic move if TPF cancellation was anticipated.

Notable Quotes

  • “I can't rationalize it... I'd have to go and basically say I wasn't going to touch a single machine and still could be caught... I couldn't rationalize quarantining myself away from family members that are immunocompromised just because I wanted to go play pinball.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~15:00 — Explains the personal calculus behind TPF cancellation decisions, highlighting the contagion risk of a 'tactile hobby' in crowded conditions.

  • “The entire strategy at this point is flatten the curve... It's not about stopping everyone from getting the disease. We're just trying to slow it enough so that we don't run out of ventilators.”

    Dennis Creasel (Public Health Professional) @ ~25:00 — Provides public health context for pandemic response and event cancellations.

  • “I think if anything suppresses it, it's probably going to be more what's happening with the market... If anything, the last week or so I've seen a boost in sales and deliveries.”

    Zach Menne @ ~35:00 — Market data point suggesting stay-at-home demand for pinball machines outweighs pandemic pessimism.

  • “If you're in the middle of moving your production line and your manufacturing, what better way to not have to worry about putting out new machines than this?”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~40:00 — Strategic observation about Jersey Jack Pinball's relocation timing coinciding with pandemic shutdown.

  • “It's devastating to them... Robert said it would absolutely kill him to not be able to hit this deadline... he's got his ducks in his row and he's ready to launch and then TPF cancels.”

    Zach Menne @ ~60:00 — Impact on Deep Root/Haggis's reveal strategy and manufacturing timeline alignment.

  • “Their hand hasn't been tipped [with Guns N' Roses]. No one's seen it yet, so they can just choose another show further down the line.”

    Zach Menne @ ~65:00 — JJP's reveal advantage vs. other manufacturers already exposed through leaks.

  • “For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kosner... it's being rumored to be around $6,200, but we will wait for an official word from the team.”

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonDennis CreaselpersonZach MennepersonDeep Root PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack PinballcompanyDamienperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Texas Pinball Festival's no-refunds policy challenged; organizers offered refunds anyway and suggested pass transfers, raising questions about financial viability. Fundraising efforts noted.

    medium · Zach Menne reviewing TPF communications; Ken questioning fundraising necessity given refund offers; uncertainty about show organizer financial stability.

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball's relocation from New Jersey to Elk Grove Village coincides with pandemic shutdown, potentially allowing workforce reduction and production consolidation without normal business pressure.

    medium · Ken Cromwell's analysis of JJP timing: 'If you're in the middle of moving your production line... what better way to not have to worry about putting out new machines than this?'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Pinball community split on whether pandemic suppresses purchasing (market/economic fear) or stimulates it (home entertainment demand during lockdown).

    medium · Hosts debate market psychology: Ken suggests throwaway money market may be resilient; Dennis notes stock market impact; Zach reports actual uptick in used sales.

  • ?

    event_signal: Chicago Expo (October) positioned to become major pinball community gathering post-pandemic due to pent-up demand from spring show cancellations.

    medium · Ken Cromwell and Zach Menne predicting increased attendance consolidation at Chicago Expo assuming 4-6 month pandemic timeline.

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival and Midwest Gaming Classic both canceled due to COVID-19, eliminating spring show revenue and manufacturer reveal opportunities.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.174

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. It's episode number five of the Pinball Show. Riding through the podcast airwaves, I am Ken Cromwell, along with my hosts, Dennis Creasel and Zach Menne. We're going to do our best to keep you informed and entertained along the way here for the next hour or two. And before we jump into it, let's check in with the guys. Dennis and Zach, how are you? What's going on? Wow, that's nice. How's it going, Dennis? Listen to that strong introduction. I'm doing good. Busy, busy. Are you corona busy? Yes. Public health. Good career choice there, bud. Well, you know, I made a lot of mistakes in my youth.
1:08
When you went to, like, the school counselor, was she like, sweetie, I'm feeling a little public health for you. What'd she say? You know, they did those placement style, like what career would you be good in middle school. My number one recommended position was teacher. I can see that. Absolutely. No, no. It was ridiculous. I don't like repeating myself. So I would really struggle with being a teacher. And the second thing it recommended was farmer.
1:41
Farmer? Yep. Farmer Crescent. Maybe you could teach a class on agriculture. Just knock it all out at once. I think everyone's second thing in Kansas was agriculture. I think they just told us all to be farmers by default. Kim, did you have that sit-down? No, if I did, I don't remember. I've had a few sit-downs in school, but I was pretty well-behaved, and I went in and did my business. Nobody told me to do pinball podcasting. I'll tell you that. Really? What were you supposed to be when you grew up? Used car salesman. No.
2:14

medium confidence · Dennis Creasel and Zach Menne discussing whether cancellation was anticipated given trend signals.

  • Texas Pinball Festival had a no-refunds policy in its terms and conditions, but offered refunds anyway and suggested pass transfers to 2021.

    high confidence · Zach Menne reviewing TPF's email communications and contract language.

  • Chicago Expo in October is positioned to become the major show of the year due to pent-up demand from cancelled spring events.

    medium confidence · Ken Cromwell predicting increased attendance assuming 4-6 month pandemic timeline.

    • Kaz (American Pinball Correspondent) @ ~12:00 — Pricing rumor for Hot Wheels without official confirmation.

  • “And a can of haggis. We might have trouble getting that through customs, but we'll see what we can do.”

    Damien (Haggis/Deep Root) @ ~08:00 — Light-hearted moment about Clan Haggis membership perks during otherwise serious times.

  • “I think everything is lining up for Chicago Expo to be the big show that everybody can come back to out of quarantine.”

    Ken Cromwell @ ~70:00 — Prediction about post-pandemic consolidation of attendee demand toward one major fall event.

  • “TPF did have in their terms and conditions... it was a policy of no refunds. In fact, they have a policy for TPF of no refunds, even if the event is canceled.”

    Zach Menne @ ~75:00 — Legal framework for event cancellation with implications for organizer financial stability.

    • Dwight Sullivan
    person
    Texas Pinball Festival (TPF)event
    Midwest Gaming Classic (MGC)event
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent
    Hot Wheelsgame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Amusement Expo International Trade Showevent
    Kazperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Dr. Johnperson
    Ed, Kim, Paulperson
    Robertperson
    Jerryperson
    Dan Lucinperson
    Van Der Veenorganization

    high · Multiple references to TPF and MGC cancellations; hosts discuss impact on Haggis, Deep Root, American Pinball, and other manufacturers.

  • $

    market_signal: Used pinball market saw slight uptick post-cancellation; hosts debate whether pandemic suppresses demand (market uncertainty) or boosts it (stay-at-home entertainment).

    medium · Zach Menne reports boost in sales and used market uptick; Ken Cromwell attributes suppression risk more to market conditions than disease fear.

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dwight Sullivan (Stern lead developer) confirmed internal leadership meetings about release timing strategy during pandemic.

    high · Ken Cromwell's report of Dwight Sullivan's Twitch chat response confirming executive deliberation on delay vs. reveal decision.

  • $

    market_signal: American Pinball Hot Wheels pricing rumored at ~$6,200 but not officially confirmed; pricing announcement pending.

    medium · Kaz (American Pinball correspondent) reporting rumor pending official statement.

  • ?

    announcement: Deep Root/Haggis offering limited-time special promotion: $6,250 fully optioned model with custom trim, free worldwide shipping, and Clan Haggis membership (~$2,000 value savings).

    high · Direct interview segment with Damien detailing offer structure and terms (TPF to MGC period).

  • ?

    product_strategy: Multiple manufacturer reveals delayed due to show cancellations (Haggis/Kelts, Deep Root, American Pinball Hot Wheels, potential others). Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses reveal timing impacted.

    high · Damien confirmed Haggis switching to online reveal; hosts discuss reveal impacts on Kelts, Deep Root, and others.

  • ?

    product_strategy: Haggis/Deep Root introducing mystery third playfield variant, possibly as competitive differentiation or community engagement tactic.

    low · Damien's comment to Dr. John: 'I think he's made that especially just to appease Zach, but I'll let him reveal that next week in his video.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern Pinball issued customer survey requesting game audit data (Stranger Things) via USB, purpose unclear—potential code improvement or other data collection.

    medium · Craig Bobby's report on Stern audit survey; speculation about purpose without confirmation.

    • I don't know what I was supposed to be. I think it was a medical field or something. I don't know. Science. Who knows? Wow. They really encouraged you guys to shoot above your station. I'll tell you what. We've got a pretty big show as far as stories from all over the place. Let's go ahead. Let's get into the TPN Industry News, and then let's get this show rolling. You guys ready? Let's do it.
    2:36
    It's time for TPN Industry News. Hello and welcome to this week's Spooky Haggis Industry Talk with Dr John. I had a chat with Damien about the unfortunate situation with the COVID-19 causing cancellation of Texas and MGC. As we know, he was planning on heading over there to unveil the games and the new playfield. And this is what he had to say. First thing, lots of condolences to everybody that was involved. I know Ed and Kim and Paul must be thoroughly disappointed. and there have been a lot of people that put a lot of work in, so I hope everybody's feeling okay with regards to that. Look, I'll take half a day. I think I took half a day yesterday, which was a nice novelty, and we'll just regroup and we'll work out the best way to launch. It will most likely just be online now, I would suggest, and we'll start marketing the pinball machine that way. I asked whether the show specials will still be going ahead that were mentioned on the Super Awesome Pinball Show. yes they will and we'll um we'll put the language around that together a little bit better and we will put a video out probably next week and we'll just explain to everybody what they get in that special but yeah we will still run it for that period from tpf to the end of mgc like we planned and i hope everybody takes advantage of it so for six thousand two hundred and fifty dollars what do you get yes so it's the fully option model so for that they get their name in the game They get custom trim and all the toy kit. Plus we offer free shipping to anywhere in the world. So it's a saving of probably around about $2,000 US. We're also introducing a clan haggis membership as well, automatic clan membership. And that includes a goodies bag of a whole bunch of little things, medallions and pins and a couple of pamphlets and some T-shirts and merch and whatnot. So there you go. And a can of haggis. we might have trouble getting that through customs, but we'll see what we can do. I also asked Amy about the mystery third playfield construction, and I think he's made that especially just to appease Zach, but I'll let him reveal that next week in his video. Hope you all stay safe and well, and I'll catch you all next week.
    4:54
    Hey, this is Kaz, your American Pinball correspondent. With Hot Wheels being shown this past week at the Amusement Expo International Trade Show in New Orleans, some fans got a surprise when they got to get some hands-on time with the new game. There were a lot of pictures and videos going around. Looks like everybody had a great time. Now, they were supposed to have an official reveal at the Texas Pinball Festival. That has since been canceled, along with the Midwest Gaming Classic. So I reached out to American Pinball for an official statement. They said an informal press release will be coming very soon with high-res photos and videos and more info on pricing will be released very soon. It's being rumored to be around $6,200, but we will wait for an official word from the team. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kosner.
    5:43
    Stern asks for an audit and what to do in a global pandemic. Hey everyone, Craig here again, the Pinball Show's Stern News Correspondent. Well, now that a global pandemic has arrived and people are madly washing their hands, overbuying toilet paper and self-isolating everywhere, Stern quietly sent out a new customer survey looking to analyze audits from Stranger Things owners regardless of their location. Yes, the audit involves downloading game information that would be collected via USB stick and then emailed back to Stern. Hmm. Ken and Dennis, could this information be used to make the code on the game better, or could there be something else at play here? And back in the chat room on a recent special, special win-lit Twitch stream, our own Ken Cromwell asked Stern's lead developer extraordinaire, Dwight Sullivan, how pinball manufacturers will handle new releases during a global pandemic. Dwight responded by saying that the Stern higher-ups have in fact been discussing this very scenario as to whether to delay their next release or reveal to the world what is next for the world's largest pinball manufacturer. But we shall wait and see. For The Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Be safe, wash your hands after pinball, and catch you on the flip side.
    7:26
    Just recently, TPF has decided this is not going to be the year for us. Same thing with MGC. Would like to get a little bit of reaction from the both of you guys. I know you were both headed to TPF. I was not. But when you heard the word that TPF was officially shut down for the year, what was kind of your initial feedback or thoughts? I wasn't surprised. We talked about it, Ken, at the midweek show. I knew it was kind of going to happen. It's weird. It's like pinball, man. A new release comes out. You're talking about it. And then you're kind of over it. Can we not just – is it that easy, Dennis? Can we not just be over it? You're the public health guy. No, I mean you can be over missing the show. I mean I suppose that you could do at will. I mean my reaction when they canceled it was that I felt that it was inevitable, that they were going to have to. And I'm glad they were able to get the news out at least a few weeks ahead of time. And it was the right thing to do. And that's the thing. I had canceled my plans to go down that morning, and it was later that day that they ended up saying that they were canceling the whole show. Obviously, a lot more people were pulling out. I was planning to drive down with two other people. One had pulled out a few days earlier in the week because they live with a couple family members who would be high risk. yeah and and that was ultimately part of the issue that tony my co-host with the collective gamers and i we were the last two who were going to drive down together and it's just like i got up in the morning i'm checking the latest case counts i'm looking at the spread rate and i'm like tony what do you think and he's like i don't think we should do it i'm like i can't rationalize it it's just i'd have to go and basically say i wasn't going to touch a single machine and it still could be caught so because of the droplet spread and a lot of people are the hand washing thing is really good advice but it seems like there's some people that have got it in their heads that as long as they keep their hands clean they can't catch it and it's like that's not how it works that's not how it's ever worked and i'm sorry but it's just this is a tactile hobby it was a cattle car of an event tpf is packed normally at least and so i just was like i can't i can't rationalize it Because then I'm going to have to quarantine myself away from other family members that I have that are immunocompromised. And I could do it, but it seemed really selfish to say, okay, just stay away from me for 14 days after I come back because I wanted to go play pinball. And I didn't want to cancel. I haven't had a vacation in a year. I'm pissed. I know you were looking forward to going down and to hang out with your buddies. It's like the one pinball show I go to. You've been feeling a little black licorice-y lately. A little bitter.
    10:13
    Thanks, Zach. I appreciate that. Why don't we go on a vacation, all three of us? Let's do it. I don't want to hang out with you. That's fair enough.
    10:22
    Easily decided. There we go. So, Zach, yourself as a distributor, I know that you had booth space down at TPF. Had this show not been canceled, can you see yourself and Nicole loading up the Flippin' Out Mobile and still heading down to TPF? Or would you have had a change of heart, do you think, by the time that show was going to go on, which was scheduled to be on March 27th? What a difficult, difficult decision. I had no plans at the time of pulling out, but I don't know. I don't know what I would have done. I was confused. I'm still confused as to what is right and what is wrong. I mean I know that this is the right thing to do, but I don't take this many precautions with other things. I wear my seatbelt, but I don't wear a helmet. I speed. I do things unhealthy for my body. So I don't know. It feels like a very dichotomous all or nothing here all of a sudden. So it's kind of – if I'm being transparent, it's kind of just shifting all of my thoughts as to what the hell is going on right now. Well, I mean, yeah, I can't recall a situation that has been extremely similar to this. I think what is happening now is that because there is so much uncertainty, I think people are looking for a way to kind of regain control. And that's why you're seeing, you know, for instance, like toilet paper and water being bought. That's something that can be controlled. Everything else is. I mean, stuff with the toilet paper are just those are people overreacting. Some of it. Some of it is selfishness. And some of it are people that thought that they could go and make a quick buck on a pandemic. Is somebody really flipping toilet paper? They tried. In fact, people complained and eBay and Amazon have had to shut down sellers because they were selling toilet paper and N95 masks and hand sanitizer with exorbitant markups. We're talking like 20 times retail. And here I felt bad because I had a Ghostbusters LE listed for 10K new in the box. You should feel bad about that, but at least you weren't exploiting the pandemic for it. Okay, fair enough. The reason why it's, I think, different compared to a lot of things, and I see a lot of people that try and do various comparisons, and most of them end up being a false equivalency, though I understand why they don't get it. We haven't really gone through a pandemic in a long time in the U.S., not one that took a big foothold. And so you can – I mean public health had to have preparations on Ebola. There was SARS. There was H1N1 stuff. I remember all of those, but there was never like a huge – there were other things at play. Like Ebola never had a big foothold in the US, for example, which is good. It's a very lethal disease. But the main thing as to why the authorities are taking COVID-19 so seriously is it's a novel virus. It's new. So virtually no one has any antibodies to it. There's no vaccine to give you any form of protection. You won't get like a partial boost because you got a flu shot either. It's not related to the flu. So that's not going to help you. And currently, none of the antivirals work on it. So because of that, there's not a good way to prevent or treat the disease outside of avoiding people to catch it. And we were so slow in the U.S. to start our testing uptake because there was – we just – we didn't go with the WHO's tests. We developed our own – we did a lot – there were a lot of federal mistakes that happened with this. So it's now in the U.S. It's spread far further than we realized because we didn't test nearly enough. So all they're trying to do, the big expression you're hearing probably even from the politicians at this point is flatten the curve, flatten the curve, flatten the curve. And so it's not about stopping everyone from getting the disease. We're just trying to slow it enough so that we don't run out of ventilators for the people that will otherwise die when they get it. So it's just about flattening that out so that we don't exceed the surge capacity of the hospitals. That's the entire strategy at this point. That's exactly where I was going to go with that. If we don slow it down we don have enough personal health care to accommodate everybody at one time It be a disaster Yep Yep So how does this even how does this affect manufacturers Their workforce would be my like Stern and its line I mean those employees are in close proximity. And the general recommendations in terms of, again, when we get about that whole droplet spread and being able to inhale the disease is the recommendations last I saw from CDC were you want to make sure that you are at least six feet away from someone else and you don't want to be within six feet for more than 15 minutes otherwise you would be seen as if someone had coronavirus that would mean you were likely to catch it if you were that close for that period hence my issue that i had with tpf is i'm going to be within six feet of tons of people for way more than 15 minutes i just couldn't rationalize so are you guys going to work i mean what dennis you still reporting in what's the deal Well, I'm the only employee where I work. That's self-fitting. Yeah. Well, I had to let my other employee go.
    15:25
    Not because of credit. Well, I work from home, so I'm in good shape. But my kids, the school's just closed here for three weeks. Yeah, yeah. Going back to manufacturers, though, I know obviously Dennis is talking about citing health issues from being on the assembly line and whatnot. But from like even a business standpoint, and I'll just cite, say, Stern Pinball, for example, because I know that we're kind of anticipating a new release. If you kind of follow their rhythm, so to speak, we should be anticipating something here within the next couple of weeks. Now, does Stern think, you know, maybe it's not ideal to release something and throw it into the marketplace when we're dealing with a global pandemic? or is it important for them to kind of go with business as usual? Because my initial fear or I guess concern would be, let's say you have a title that normally would have performed extremely well, but it was hindered because of the time of the release being in kind of like a semi-public crisis. Do you hinder your ability to capitalize on sales on a game? I don't know how that works. I asked in chat when I was running the stream a couple nights ago, and Dwight Sullivan was in chat, and he said that there were higher-ups that were having meetings about that very scenario that day. So it's obviously something that is being under consideration and is being discussed over at Stern Pinball. What do you guys think? I think the bigger thing that's probably going to affect their ability to sell will be what happens with the market. Do you think that affects anything? Yeah. I was thinking about that. Yeah. I'm not sold that it does. Because I think a lot of people in this hobby are day trading or whatever, and if their stocks aren't doing well, then they don't feel like they have dividend money to spend. I don't know. I don't know what percentage, but I think it's at least a perception thing. Because if the economy slows, other people start to worry that they're going to lose their job. It almost seems like when people are spending money on pinball machines, it's like this throwaway money, and it's not like in and out of the stock market. It depends on the person. Again, I think it has a bigger impact than the disease specifically would on a person's decision to buy. I don't envision a lot of people going, well, if there wasn't a pandemic, I would order a pinball machine. One could argue the other way though and say, well, hell, I'm going to be cooped up. It would be nice to at least get that machine I've been wanting for a while. I might as well pull the trigger on it too. That's why I think if anything suppresses it, it's probably going to be more what's happening with the market. I don't – being stuck at home is going to make people want more games of anything otherwise. Because I've not seen any – I mean it's still early, but if anything, the last week or so I've seen a boost in sales and deliveries. I'd say the used market seems to be on a slight uptick right now, and I think it is because of people's anticipations of maybe spending extended periods of time at home. Let's get a pin or let's expand on the collection a little bit, and let's make the best out of a tricky situation. Finally getting rid of that damn dial, Dan. Let's get some, you know. I don't know. Ken, does that feel good? A little market trends there. You like that? Yeah, it felt good, didn't it? Does Chicago have confirmed cases?
    18:31
    Yeah, sure. The county in which I live has confirmed cases, and that's, you know, 40 miles west of Chicago. So, yeah, it's here. I mean, normally that's a factor in terms of whether or not they'd consider shutting the factory down. If you don't have confirmed cases in the community, then I could see them saying, well, there's nothing to flatten yet. So we might as well keep working. Do you think this helps or hinders Jersey Jack with this whole move? I think it helps them. Really? And the reason I say that is if you're in the middle of moving your production line and your manufacturing, what better way to not have to worry about putting out new machines than this? Lay low, get everything moved as you can, and you don't have to worry about assembly lines or workers. You've already kind of – I would assume you're winding down the workforce over in New Jersey, and you're getting ready to hire out here in Elk Grove Village. And I don't know. It's just – it's an unfortunate reason for it maybe to be advantageous, but I don't know that I could see it as a hindrance per se. I would see it maybe more as neutral, just, well, they weren't going to build anyway, so this happens to not be inconveniencing them the way it might be inconveniencing everyone else. But I don't think it actually helps them. Yeah, and Dennis, you and I and Ken were talking in private chat, and you brought up something really interesting. You were talking about how this maybe affects Hot Wheels. How does this affect Deep Root, Kelts? I mean, hell, Damien was going to bring Kelts over from overseas. Think about from all these plans, all this promotional stuff, think about the damage that's done by having shows that can't be rescheduled. And because other shows are being canceled as well, that just puts everyone that otherwise had all these plans behind. I mean, it sucks across the board for a lot of people for a lot of reasons. And the ones that came to mind were, so Hot Wheels did have a public debut, but it wasn't at a show anyone was expecting.
    20:23
    And so other than some. Do you think, Dennis, that they may have foreseen this circumstance of TPF closing? So they thought, you know, why not get it out there in the public for a soft reveal in the event that we don't ever get at the T.P.F.? Do you think that was a possibility? Yeah, it's possible. I mean, all the trends were there. We had other countries leading in terms of disease outbreak on this. Other than people who claim they didn't know, most people who looked knew. Let's put it that way. So I think it was a happy circumstance. I'm still waiting for prices. But I do. I think there's rumors in the low sixes. That's what Kaz said on the update. Yeah. I don't think that they – it's possible, but I don't think that that was a motivator for them. I think it was, if anything, just almost spontaneous is how it felt. We have these reveals that are no longer taking place, and it's going to be disappointing for Haggis and maybe disappointing for American Pinball, disappointing for any other manufacturer that might have brought something new to tpf except who is still out there ready to do their reveal for the world because they've claimed that they're not going to stop and five days of it yeah well it's going to be deep root so deep root is still going to have their uh their reveal their uh i guess yeah so their company revealed their launch so to speak in uh san antonio texas but this still i still think this is devastating to them yeah i think so i think it i think it hurt hot wheels but because hot wheels got out there and didn't hurt it as bad as these others have been damaged the the three that are most damaged starting with the least is kelts just to show off the new play field and let people know that how it feels to play the ball on it and such but it's a pretty small manufacturer so i think they'll be all right with that uh the second one would be deep root yeah they're still going to do the five days of deep group they are taking steps to not have as many people involved live at the event in order i heard about octo ventilation right too in order to have that but but the problem is as cool as that will be and with everyone cooped up it gives us something to watch so that's good they might actually get more eyeballs on the reveal itself but they lose all that hands-on experience and for someone like me who doesn't buy new inbox games unless i play them first, I'm out until I can try the game. And when's that going to be? You only go to one show a year. Yeah, but I go to the show, Zach. I go to the show. I think I remember Robert saying how disappointed he was to have not hit the TPF deadline the year prior. And he said it would absolutely kill him to not be able to hit this deadline. And now he's got his ducks in his row and he's ready to launch and then TPF cancels. So it's like he can't seem to win with lining up with TPF. It's too bad. No, no. Yeah. And it's just it's just unfortunate. And then the other one that stands out to me is very unfortunate was all that hyping that Jerry was doing for the new. Yeah, that's a killer. And TPF is his show. That's the one where he brings a ton of games. It's close by. He's able to do it. He's able to explain the system. And his presence isn't like that at any other show. And I just don't think he'll be able to pivot to another show and do it the same way. So that completely swept the legs out from under what I felt was a very aggressive marketing push on his part to promote this new game. Well, perhaps these manufacturers can rely a little bit on the pinball media to help get the word out. It also makes me wonder if this entire situation, as unfortunate as it is, may set the tone for an increase in attendance at Chicago and Pinball Expo in October, because this might be one of the first shows that we'll be able to be on as scheduled, assuming that the predictions are semi-correct, where it might take us maybe four to six months to get out of this. Do you see that maybe more people are saying, hey, you know what, I missed TPF, I still want to hang out with my pinball buddies, and Expo is the show that I think I want to do that? I can definitely see that. What are the big shows? It's Replay FX and Pemberg for competition. It's Texas Pinball, as Dennis was alluding to, is the big show. And before, in yesteryears, it was the Chicago Expo, and that's building up year after year over the last couple of years. And I think, yeah, I think everything is lining up for Chicago Expo to be big this year. It's finally the big show that everybody can come back to out of quarantine if it's not still going on. Yeah, I agree. I think you're going to see an uptick in attendance for Chicago Expo because other people lost the shows they wanted to go to. and but obviously the thing is that doesn't really help deep roots reveal i mean who's gonna we can't we being the manufacturers of which i am not one of but i'm speaking in the royal we anyway cannot hold a half year and then reveal games that were going to be revealed in march in october yeah and if and we don't know what they're doing with distribution if they don't have a distributors then they're gonna have to go up there to show off those games if anyone lucked out it was jjp with Guns N' Roses.
    25:28
    How do you mean? Because there wasn't any... Hot Wheels already got shown at another show, so some of the hype of the leak is out. Because it's like it leaked, essentially, because people got to see it. We still haven't seen Guns N' Roses. If it was purportedly planned to be revealed at TPF, it didn't happen, but that's okay.
    25:48
    Their hand hasn't been tipped. No one's seen it yet, so they can just choose another show further down the line. And again, with their move and everything, they might not have been ready to produce them anyway. So in a way, they might actually be able to have that, like they did with Wonka, that faster turnaround of, hey, here's the game. And hey, look, it's four weeks later and you can have them, which would be a first for them. Yeah, good take on that. I'm noticing online now it looks like there's some fundraising efforts that are going on specifically for TPF at Van Der Veen. Any idea on how – and I was thinking about this today. Like, I'm sure that this is not an ideal situation for anybody or any team that runs a show. But how impactful is it? It's impossible for me to tell. And frankly, it's none of my business. But when you see now fundraising efforts, it makes you, you know, potentially concerned. Is there a financial crisis for these show promoters? Do we risk these shows going away unless we're able to fundraise? I know Dan Lucin, who runs MGC, has just kind of asked that, hey, if you don't mind, let's not get a refund on these. Let's go ahead and we'll pass your tickets over for next year, and they're still good. I'm not sure exactly what the specifics are for TPF and refunds or whatnot. I imagine it's not something that is preferred. If you're going to go the following year, that's fine. But any comments as far as who do you fundraise for and how much and how do you figure out how that works? well in terms of and i know you weren't registered for tpf so you didn't get the emails no no they emailed out it it sounded to me with the first email that they indicated they were refunding the tournament uh they were i think believe refunding the vendors they asked for they said they were going to check and see if they could do the pass transfer to 2021 and that maybe it would be possible for those that didn't want to do the pass transfer to get a refund tpf did have in their terms and conditions. I didn't remember when I bought it because I emailed them after I canceled because it was like, what's your refund policy? Because I couldn't find it on the website, but someone sent me the link later and there was no Paul. Well, there was a policy. It was a policy of no refunds. In fact, they have a policy for TPF of no refunds, even if the event is canceled. So that was the written policy. So they didn't have to give anyone refunds. And then there was a follow up. So if they just canceled the show for no reason, you could not get a refund or correct. They had language that said that it was a rain or shine event and the argument as presented was, well, you're getting a discount by pre-registering, but obviously if the event can't happen, there were still sunk costs and we have to be able to recover that. I mean, I have my own opinion on that in terms of me canceling. If the event wasn't canceled, I totally understood not being able to get my money back. And that's what I was prepared to do. If the event cancels, then because it's been shut down by a government, then there are provisions, I believe, in every standard contract for an event that you don't facility any of those penalties. Normally there are steep penalties if you don't make your room counts. If there food involved and you don make your food counts I don think that applies to TPF But there are other aspects Anyway but in the follow email they said we will be able to do refunds but they would prefer you just to transfer the pass so they don have to So in my mind, I would think, well, if they're offering to do the refunds that they don't have to do legally, they had their disclaimer, then it sounds like they don't need a fundraiser, right? Because they had enough money to do the refunds. funds that i mean that was what when i heard about that i didn't hear about the fundraiser until just before we we went on i don't mind if people fundraise for him uh i thought what made sense is what they've done they've opened the tpf store up so people can buy the because that's one of the songs that's a good idea that he's going to be stuck with all those shirts those challenge coins sell that stuff sell it online and then people can buy it that wanted to go he gets his money for the merch it helps pay for a lot of those sunk costs and you know it's still an unfortunate situation but it should help mitigate a lot of that so that would have been the avenue i would have explored would have been like ordering shirts and stuff rather than i don't normally do participate in fundraisers for for-profit entities right i i just don't know the i just i'd want to see the books i i don't know enough about it did and maybe you guys do did tpf ask for fundraising or is this just community driven i think it's community driven i haven't i didn't get a request from t yeah i think it's it was opened up by uh melissa from coin taker and uh it was melissa and who's the other coordinator oh dr pin okay and then the target amount is what ten ten thousand dollars and they're they're already uh reaching that fairly quick so for those yeah there are a lot of people that are probably prefer doing that to ordering well you know if you got a if you've got a drawer full of t-shirts maybe you don't want another one you'd rather just give some money because of the inconvenient. I don't see anything wrong with doing a fundraiser. I'd rather just buy merch and do things like that. Or in my case, I'm saying, yeah, go ahead and keep my money and just transfer my Passover because I really like TPF. But I think all the steps, once he announced that it was being closed, I think Ed did all the right steps. And he did more than he needed to from those terms and conditions.
    31:08
    Because we were seeing Dan with MGC initially saying what he would do if he had to cancel, and it was very transparent. And so that was sort of the model I ended up, and maybe it was unfair, but that's what I was comparing TPF to. Well, TPF was still really radio silent until after the government made the decision, and they both ended up in a place where I thought both shows have done the best they could with a bad situation. But I haven't seen any of the shows say that they needed fundraisers to help them out. That said, I do know a lot of smaller shows struggle to be profitable in the first few years. I don't know what MGC and TPF's situation is on an annualized basis. I assume they are profitable, but you might not be getting rich off of it because there are a lot of costs to hosting any event. I did see that Chris Franchi was advertising for the charity itself or for the fundraising. And the choice of words was indicating like, you know, so we can have a TPF 2021. And that's what kind of shocked me. I was like, oh, my gosh. Oh, none of my emails from Ed made me think that the show was at risk. I mean, that wasn't my take. But it was – if you want to, I guess, be extra sure, more money will help. $10,000 isn't going to – I would assume isn't going to make or break TPF running next year. But I'm sure it would help to kind of recoup some costs and some investment for this past year. Yeah, I imagine the biggest thing are the upfront sunk things like buying all the shirts that you thought you were going to sell at the door, for example. I mean, you're kind of stuck with those. So there's a certain amount of funding that would be needed or ideally you'd have up front that he was planning to get before April. Guys, I want to know what's going on with my old flame, the Twippies. How is he going to bring that up to like it's been a complicated Twippies this year now. So you find the replacement hosts and you get everything ready for TPF. TPF's canceled. The Twippies are going to go on. I think it's going to be Saturday, March 28th. I don't know any of the specifics other than it's supposed to be continued to be a live event. How would you guys handle this? What would you do? Oh, my goodness. Maybe I'll go to Dennis first. Well, I mean – Thanks. You're welcome. I mean if I were doing it because I'm super lazy, I think doing it online would make sense. I'd have scaled it way back though and probably just – it wouldn't have been much of a show because I'm not much of an inspiration though. So don't rely on my ideas to put together anything fun. My understanding of what's going on with it is they're going to do the show online. There will be hosts. I'm guessing it will still be Emoto and Carrie, but I don't know that for sure. And that the hosts are going to cut to prerecorded video that the presenters will record and send in.
    33:59
    How are they going to be together, I wonder? So this gets prerecorded. Is this going to be just a prerecorded Twippy event that is then rebroadcast live? Or, I mean, how are you going to get all these – how is this going to make sense on Twitch? I just know from running a pinball stream, we've all done it. It's going to be the host – It poses its own problems. The hosts are live, and then kind of like how you might show a bumper or a commercial while you do your live stream, They'll show the prerecorded presenter audio, and then they'll show the prerecorded top three games, and then they will live open and read the winner. It's like year one deluxe. Yeah. Yeah, year one deluxe. There we go. Are the hosts together then, or are they also remote in separate spots? I don't know. I mean, I'm sure they know, but I clearly didn't need to know any of that. That's going to be weird if they're separate. All right. So you're speculating that you'll have Carrie Inamoto in one location hosting off of pre-recorded introductions. Does that sound accurate? Yeah, basically. Except Twitch has got a broadcast feature to allow multiple streams to combine together. So they could do it remotely. They wouldn't have to be together. I can't wait to see this. I mean, this is going to be – I mean, they can do it. I mean, all these people are fully capable of hitting it out of the park here, but it's, man, for me to get four cameras working in my own little studio sometimes is a rack in my brain. So it's going to be awesome. Well, Emoto and Kerry are veterans of doing video work. I know. I am still a rookie. You're a veteran to Zach.
    35:39
    I'll take that. I'm not sure how to take that. Ken, you're doing something with the Twippies, aren't you? A little red carpet? Yeah. So our special when lit podcast channel on Twitch, we're going to do a two-hour red carpet event leading up into the Twippies and then raid that Twippy channel wherever it's hosted. Do we know what Twitch channel that's going to be on? I've not heard yet. Okay. And then we were going to try to raid that channel so that everybody's there. And then afterwards, we were going to try to do like a little post-show recap. I like that. I don't know what time it's starting. And I don't know. I'm assuming details will be rolling out here shortly because we're under two weeks at this point, right? Yep. Come on, Jeff. We know it's going to be on March 28th. Jeff's drinking right now. Yeah. It's tight, but it can be done. Yeah, we've got plenty of support. Twippies will go on. It'll be fine. So in two more episodes, we'll be able to discuss the success of the Twippies. I swear the day I heard TPF had to cancel because of COVID-19, Someone actually suggested holding the Twippy celebration until Expo. Oh, yeah. So I virtually slapped the taste out of their mouth.
    36:55
    Because I was like, no, you got to be kidding. Come on. It's already so far past when people voted. You want to wait till October? People aren't going to remember what games came out. I thought Jeff was just going to release that. Just knowing Jeff, I figured, like, you know what? Forget it. Just announce the winners and move on. Oh, like post them on the website? I think the Twippies will be fine. What's interesting, this past year, there was no Spooky Machine, I don't believe, that was eligible for the Twippies, was it? No, I think you're right. I think Alice Cooper technically was a 2018 release. Yeah, and the reason I bring that up is because there was a recent podcast, Canadiens Pinball Podcast, that reviewed First Impressions, a review on Rick and Morty by Spooky Pinball. And what I found interesting is that it was pretty controversial because Scott Denise then reached out to Chris Coolers from Canadiens Pinball Podcast to speak with him over a podcast that was aired the same day as not really a rebuttal, but like a reaction or something to discuss what his take was on this. There's a follow-up podcast off of the original one that was on earlier today. There's two. There is two. I have not heard the follow-up one. But what I found interesting was that Scott Denise said a couple things that I didn't know about, number one being he was talking about the adjustments because Canada was having big issues, like a lot of people are with that third flipper shot and the shots, the design, the angles, geometry that comes off of that. And Chris was very, very, very, very vocal about it. And I thought it was interesting because Scott was essentially saying, I think, I'm not sure that that machine that you were playing was set up properly. He talked to the listener about some of the adjustments that can be made on new Rick and Morty's and continued adjustments that spooky pinball is making to make sure that all the shots need to, or are where they need to be. He was talking about there. So there's a new, new plastic, uh, that I think is kind of the sweet spot on that third flipper, you know, stand up target. I believe if you remove that plastic rail, Scott was saying that there is a way to adjust that rail. And I was very delighted to hear that. If you can, it sounds like that rail needs to be adjusted at spooky. Well, some people, Some people are having that argument. Some people are saying, well, wait, then that needs to be done there. But he was talking about that. This is wild. I didn't see this, but he said that right before production from the Whitewood, the 11th hour, they shifted that upper right flipper down closer to the player a bit in hopes of or the desire was to make that shot better aligned. But it was interesting because I was like, holy crap. like they did that right before production that seems seems wild that did that improve it to what we're seeing now or was that i don't know the play field what does that mean was it harder before i don't know what does that mean well this is the thing like i haven't and i played this at louisville too and i haven't i guess i haven't seen a game yet that's been properly set up and i'm even thinking about like some of the spooky streams that we saw or the one or two of the streams that we saw from them it didn't look as as flowy as maybe i anticipated it to be i'm not saying it's a deal breaker for me but i guess i would like to see an example of a machine that is properly set up because at this point i'd like to have expectations set for when i get my game i want to have something to compare it to does that make sense absolutely i don't think that's too much to ask for i i would love for spooky if they can just set up a machine how it's supposed to be set up, stream from Spooky or at a bar or whatever, and then I just want to see how it's supposed to shoot. I mean, because we could talk about making the adjustments all the time, but I think fact of the matter is a lot of people are not going to even know that there is that adjustment to be made unless they're deep diving into their pinball media, and that's like podcasts like this. I mean, this is a niche of a niche. See, Dennis, we're helping. I know you think you are. The other argument is, does it matter? They've already sold out. No, it still matters. You have to have after-sales support. You can't just say it kind of is what it is unless it is what it is. And, again, it's not necessarily a deal-breaker, but I want to know how it's supposed to shoot. I want to know what it's supposed to look like. If I played the devil's advocate here, I would say that of the last five pinball machines that I've opened up, regardless of the manufacturer, everyone needs an adjustment. when the stream i i remember watching their their sneak peek stream and i remember watching a portion of the dead flip stream that they did on location a little bit after the sneak peek stream i didn't remember anyone saying at the time that it wasn't playing right my point my point is is that if it wasn't set up like that ship kind of sailed so they've already done their quote unquote official streams and so that's the setup i mean that's what was presented so is that then how the game is intended to shoot so by watching that stream that's what you should be able to expect i mean if i was a buyer i would assume yes because why else did they not point out that it wasn't set up right well because if i was i'm trying to think from their perspective i wouldn't want to identify issues the first time somebody was saying which is why i've always said why in hell is everything live streamed it doesn't make sense to me but that's gone you know nobody nobody listens that but well you know when i played the game in louisville i hit that garage shot from the upper right flipper the second time that i had the opportunity to do so so whereas like at that point i'm like oh this isn't so bad but then after that i don't think i hit it again but again i i i guess and that's what scott denisi was saying on this interview he was saying if because the the player chris in this situation said that he was hitting that garage shot much more frequently than he's claiming about 10 of the time was the only success rate when shooting that inner loop from the top right flipper and scott said that is indication essentially that if you're hitting the garage easier than the loop then it was set up incorrectly but then he then he said he didn know kind of how they were setting them at the factory either when they were building them So I don know But the owner of Jack Bar I mean he an experienced pinballer He owns machines. He knows how to set up his games. And I've heard this, that his machines are in impeccable shape and they're all set up. So if even somebody that's experienced in pinball doesn't know how to properly set up their game, here lies the problem. Maybe we need to try to see if they can get properly set up before they leave so that there's not any point of contention. But I have the same problem with orbits. Usually I've got to bend rails so that they come back to the flipper so they're not hitting the sling. Yes, that's notorious on Stern. Yeah, I'm fine with making the adjustments. But if it's an adjustment where you're not even quite sure what the results are supposed to be post-adjustment, that's where I think it could get confusing. And I guess the reason I keep bringing it up right now is because, again, when my game comes, I just want it to be set up. I don't want to be frustrated, tinkering back and forth without knowing where my peak of success is supposed to be set at on that shot. All very good points. He also talked about this past weekend writing a lot more music for the Rick and Morty game itself. And the music was already pretty phenomenal. So even more is coming. You know, when I hit the start button on there, and it's just, it is absolutely Rick and Morty, but it's got a little TNA in it, too. Yeah, it does. I do enjoy the music. Scott's got, like, that signature sound to him, and now he's becoming famous for his light shows. So, good for Scott. No, the game is the game. The game is just not going to be a flow beast. And maybe it was meant to be, but it's not. So, it is what it is. Yeah, but all in all, we shall wait and see. As Craig Bobby says, I want to see what's going to happen. I'm anxiously awaiting my game. I think I'm number 319, so here's to what. What's Bill say? Interesting to see how this all – Real interested to see how it's all going to turn out. Yeah, Bill Webb, baby. But, yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Are you looking forward to it, Dennis? I don't have one on order. Well, you're going to play one at Southeast Pizza West.
    45:30
    We don't tend to get spooky games. Well, I do know what you're looking forward to, and that's a little bit of... The Pinball Show's Pinball Market Trends! You just ruined my Pinball Market Trends with your beepity-beep bullshit. Are we supposed to make sound effects? No, we're not. We can do whatever we want during Pinball Market Trends. No memo. It's a false side drink. Memo. You know what? Dennis Creasel still types out his memos on a typewriter. You know, I do have a typewriter, and I don't like you attacking that.
    46:02
    Screw your typewriting. Oh, no, Dr. Phil. I only use it for good. Hey, I heard you on the guys on the midweek show actually plug for reviews on iTunes. I don't know if you've actually read some of the ones that came in. Hey, let's not bring attention to it. No, I didn't. I didn't ask for a review because I learned my lesson about asking reviews on iTunes. Are they bad? I've got to read you just part of my favorite one, which is even Dennis is doing a nice job. that's my favorite because because the listener had such a low expectation for me and i've tried to set that bar low and i'm i'm glad i'm clearing it just off the floor this is doing a great job even even even of all the people that could have done a bad job you're very popular in the pin side thread though like you are uh you've reached legendary status of all hail that creasel Yep. If I had a nickel for every time I heard somebody say, I wish Dennis was just driving that show and on that show every single week. Oh, you know what else is nice? Training App this week is a little bit of Stern's Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro. Not the Premium or LE, the Pro. You guys believe that? I do. I do not believe that. Until the code gets, and I think they may have finally pushed out the code change on the LE and Premiums, but it was basically not worthy of competition play to use those models. So the Pro was where it was at. Absolutely, Pro's where it's at. We know that Stern hasn't had them on the production line here recently. A lot of distributors have had low stocks, if any at all, for the Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro. Then when you start seeing this topper shipping, uh-oh, all of a sudden, competitive pinball players want to play the Pro.
    47:50
    Collectors want to have that topper, so they want to play something. I'll take the Pro. So you're seeing a rise a little bit over about $300, $400 in the last six months on Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro. Zach Dennis, that topper is incredible on Black Knight Sword of Rage. And incredibly, it's under $750. Yes. To see that rocking and rolling live at Louisville, man, I just want the topper. I mean, the pin's great, but it's awesome. And that's why it's trending up. Also trending up this week is Chicago Gaming Company's Attack from Mars remake. Any guesses, fellas, why that is trending up? Because they are going to stop making them? They have stopped making them. They've stopped making them for about a month now. They're out of stock. I'm out of stock. Everybody's out of stock of the attack from Mars. So if you've got yourself an LE, you might want to hold on to that a little bit. Just a little bit. Retain some value there. Another great topper. All these pins trending up have nice toppers, I noticed. Well, holding steady this week is actually a pinball machine with a holding steady type of topper, and that's Rick and Morty. Now, four or five days ago, I would have said the secondary market pre-order sales would have been up. But with recent mixed reviews coupled with a flooding for some reason of these pre-orders, they're getting about $2,500 a couple days ago. I don't see that sticking around. I think they're going to hold steady maybe around the $2,000 range. That's where you're going to see them. So wouldn't that be trending down if it's not going to hold that $2,500? It's holding steady because it's no longer going up and busting through the glass ceiling. But you said you thought it dropped down to $2,000. I'm just glad that I got through that holding steady. Jeez. Oh, my God. But it's not holding steady according to you. Trending down this week is... Why do you do this segment? Trending down this week is the coronavirus. Yeah, it's obvious. I get it.
    49:51
    It's trending down even though it's had exponential growth. COVID, what is it? COVID-19. Coronavirus causes the disease COVID-19. Whatever happened to COVID-18? It's like, well, son of a bitch. My brother always shines. It's always COVID-19. COVID-19, whatever it takes. Trending down. It's ruined everything. It's ruined the pinball market trends. I can't get my words out. My co-hosts are making fun of me. It's no fun anymore. I quit. It's over. It's done. Until I can't quit without doing your pinball market trends. Wait for it, guys. Ah, patience is a virtue. Deal with a weed. Bye, bye, bye. You're going to knock that $10,000 Ghostbusters down to $98,000? You're going to knock it down? Right. We just unboxed this $10,000 Ghostbusters. This poster is now $7,800. What a deal. Whoa. Walk and eat a d***.
    50:49
    I saw that on Facebook. I had to click refresh because I couldn't believe you typed that. Plenty of interest, Mr. Creasel. Plenty of interest. No, they're all asking about that Transformers game. Man, that one really went fast. Woo. And then he backed out. And then it went fast again. But no, your deal of the week this week is actually from a friend of mine. chill chill chill all you want i don't give a shit this is a good price he's got a mouse and around oh my boy schmitty down here in evansville ania 3200 or best offer for this mouse and around the reason now 3200 is a little bit high for a mouse and around i get that but if you tried to find some of the components for a mouse and around it's pretty tough and this one is above average players quality the play field itself super super nice i wouldn't even re i wouldn't even uh wouldn't even swap this play field. I might pull it up, pray, cross my fingers together, and hope like hell if you pull that mylar, it's fine, so that you can clear coat it beautifully. Oh, and then chrome it. It's already got powder coat on it. It's yellow, but for $3,200, Oboe? Oboe. I think it's a deal of the week. I wanted it. I just don't have enough room. Dennis, what should I do? Not enough room for a mouse and a round. Do you guys like that game, Mouse and a Round? Nope. Are you serious? I mean it's not like a bottom of the barrel system 11 but to me it's very second tier have you guys shot it? yes I've played it a lot it's center ramp all day it's boring oh sorry tournament player I must compute what makes most sense points wise no I like the feel of it baby when I'm driving a Ferrari I don't give a shit what the RPMs are going or how fast that engine I just want to feel alive driving a lot of Ferraris these days? First, you mispronounced Fiat. Second, this is neither the Ferrari or the Fiat of System 11s.
    52:50
    Be that as it may. It's like the Toyota Camry. Love you, Bear Orchard. It's like the Ford Escort of the System 11 era. It is not. You take it back. No. The Chevy Cavalier. God, you guys are asses tonight. I won't take it back. Just let the listener know that each one of these precious, precious friends of mine want nothing more than this segment to be dead. So write in. Write in right now. I don't even know what the email is. But write in to the pinball network at gmail.com. The pinball network at gmail.com. If you really want this dead, then keep it to yourself. But if you want it alive, email in to free us. And tell these two they're wrong. and that was your Pinball Show's pinball market streams.
    53:39
    Bye, bye, bye! So that's going to wrap up episode number five of the Pinball Show. You can reach us at thepinballshow at gmail.com. You can find us on Facebook at The Pinball Show. You can reach me specifically on Facebook at Ken Cromwell. Zach, where can they find you?
    54:01
    Guys, this is so out of nowhere. like there's no direction you know if it was like 9 30 in the morning that's cool 1202 a.m i've never heard you guys interact like this in all the years that i've listened to you guys like you get something happened in the last 12 minutes or you guys just i don't know what happened is that what it is yeah i just love that you just led through that whole thing without it's past midnight he sits like i said two hours guys we're done where can they find you dentist i don't know anymore i don't know what's going on here uh eclectic gamers podcast at gmail.com if they want to email i i check that you can catch me uh the pinball network at gmail.com do we share that email don't we fellas we do but it's all for you and it's all for you and ken i gotta say i feel bad people interacting with zach that's become his own little chat no no that's not true i checked there's like a lot of pandering that i've seen in there No, I make all the messages I read still unread so that you guys can read them as well. The ones that I reply to, people are like, well, could you just let me know what Zach says? No, they do not. Yes, they do too. I think they're all just trying to get a flipping out coupon code or something. That's 812-457-9711 for all the most beautiful brand new pinball machines. I'll even deliver them with my Escalera stair climbing hand truck.
    55:25
    For Dennis Creasel and Zach Menne, I am Ken Cromwell. Always practice safe pinball and trending up. That was good to see my alarm trending up. Don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball so long.
    55:42
    Dennis, you keep talking about pulling out. I'm just so glad your dad didn't pull out because, buddy, if he would have pulled out, I would have had no friends. Oh, my gosh.
    55:55
    Oh, my gosh. It's way too good. I'm sorry. Zach's slap happy after 945. Well, at least you didn't link it back to the UV kids.
    56:06
    There it is. Four or five days ago, I would have said this. The pre-order sales, the pre-order secondary, the f***ing one more time. Oh, my gosh. The secondary pre-order sales. Okay, assholes. God. Why are you even trending this? God. F***ing beep, beep, beep your ass. there's like 60 of them out there oh but you're going for the pre-orders right no he's talking about people selling the pre-order spot but he doesn't know how to articulate it because he forgot how to speak english after 10 p.m it's a different it's a different dynamic after 10 why are we here oh why am i not in bed are you all done we good okay now four or five days ago I would have said the... Oh, no. Just... Oh, guys. Let's just... Let's finish this tomorrow. Holy cow. Man. We've been on this for four minutes. Alvin Jones here. Calling in to tell you to hurry the f*** up. It's me, Alvin Jones. Let me finish my f***ing event. Dr. Phil's here. Alvin Jones is here. Now, look. Morty, come here, Morty. Oh, no. Oh, God.
    57:18
    F***. Oh, what a fun hobby Oh, **** No, that was last week You listened to the wrong **** week, Dennis I was behind I listened to all the weeks No, no, no, no This is like These correspondences **** suck Oh, **** So he didn't even listen to last week's episode, right? I listened **** Do me a favor Splice all this together And I want you guys to listen to this tomorrow After I've had some rest from about the hour and 20 minute mark on. You guys are nuts.