I'm somewhat familiar with Josh. I know he's worked on some custom pinball projects that have been pretty well received by people, like homebrew things, where he's done a lot of the coding, though, and that they've been pretty elaborate. it. So he's seen as someone who, at the very least, has hands-on experience doing code. Anyway, that's, as of last I looked, that's the latest on the social media stuff about American Pinball. So a minor or a brief statement about Magic Girl and then two updates since then about Houdini and just Houdini. Tony, what are your thoughts? They sharted over. They flat out said they sharted over. They dug themselves a giant hole, they coated the walls with KOI, tossed in a pack of starving wolves, jumped in, and it was like, you know what? We made a mistake. Let's start over. I can see where they might have had to have. I know we've heard plenty of things, like rumor-wise, that maybe some of the layouts and shots wouldn't even work and wasn't even feasible, and it was just a messed-up play field. We've heard all sorts of things, but this going from just fixing it to a complete start over just seems, I mean, well, A, it means to me that they're actually going to make a go of this. And at the same time, it almost makes me wonder, did they not do any research at all? I mean, I know we've mentioned this in the past, but did they not see any issues coming out? Did they seriously not know about the Zidware or J-Pop issue? Did they just go, hey, I've played this game that was made by this guy, and I like that game, and hey, he's available right now, and we've been wanting to start a pinball thing. Let's see if we can get him to hire on and make us a table. And then when everything crashed and blew up their faces, they're like, oh, you know what? Head down. We'll plow through it, and we'll be awesome. And then when reality fully caught up to them, they were just like, um, um, we messed up we gotta start over it just it weird I don even understand at this point Yeah confused would be the one word I would use to describe myself about basically every decision that American Pinball has made. This actually is the most logical one, I guess, that I've seen so far. I shouldn't just say this one, but what they've been doing recently. Bringing in Joe, I mean, it makes sense. You have no choice but to ask, why didn't they do it earlier? bringing in Josh. That makes sense to me. Why didn't they do that earlier? Here are the things that arise for me. Because as you've noted, the walls are slick with the KY, the wolves are after them, and they put themselves in this pit. And it's like the Thunderdome. And there ain't no wheel that they can spin for breaking the deal. But that's the question that's going to come up, is the deal. Because What in the world is this solution going to be, this good news they referenced on the first for Magic Girl customers? Because here's how I see it. I thought, and again, this is not confirmed, but this is the running assumption everyone had, that American Pinball was like doing an in-kind trade with J-Pop. he was giving them a Houdini design and they were going to, in trade, pay him by making the Magic Girl customers whole. This is what I have assumed. And they could have clarified this at any time by actually spelling out what in the world was going on. But it seemed to make sense in the context of they're not saying anything about Raza, they're not saying anything about Alice in Wonderland other than, you know, things will have to wait. It would fit then if they thought, okay, well, you know, we'll pay J-Pop in product, basically, you know, over time. You could sort of see it. I mean, it seemed really steep and difficult, and I didn't understand why in the world they'd ever want to do that. But, you know, top-tier designer, who knows? Heady dreams of wealth, I don't know. But now, if they've redesigned Houdini from the ground up, what in the world did he give them other than an idea of doing a pin called Houdini? I don't know. I mean, it makes no sense. I mean, if they went for a ground-up redesign, it has to be something that was just a box of parts. Maybe this is all J-Pop really does. It makes you wonder about his older games and these classics, how much reworking was done back in there, or has he just lost it? Does he not have the touch he used to have? I don't, you know, my, and this is so speculation, but my thought on Houdini was that was one of his ideas he'd been doodling around with for a while. They didn't put as much time into that as he did into his vidware titles, and he dug it out of the box. And when this discussion was going on with American Pinball to say, hey, I've got this and I'm trying to accomplish that. Can we do something? and they not being pinball people, because to my knowledge, everyone who I initially saw in the startup of American Pinball doesn't seem to have a history of being in this industry at all, which I think is part of the reason why the community is not quick to embrace them. And they, you know, they kind of bought into it. But, you know, if they're wanting to start fresh also, I can't help but wonder, why in the world are you even keeping the idea of doing Houdini? I mean, what are they out changing it other than I believe they have submitted for a trademark on the font for Houdini that they're doing, like the title. There's a thing, trademark pending or patent pending, or something like that regarding Houdini, which just seems to be the name and how it's fonted, because it's essentially a public domain thing. So, I mean, I could see them sticking with Houdini because it's like a non-license license. You don't have to pay a license fee to access Houdini, is my understanding, because of how long ago that he lived. But people know who he is, so he's got recognition. But, I mean, if you don't, if you're like, oh, my God, what happened to us at Pinball Expo? If that's your reaction when you got back from Chicago, why do you not say, we're dropping Houdini, we're doing, even if it's another magic theme, we're doing Copperfield, we're completely changing, you know, David Blaine, we're bringing him in. You know, it's just, I don't, it's like, you're doing it from the ground up, but you didn't start totally clean, did you? You just couldn't let it all go. And they had that opportunity. Yet again, I think it's a blunder. You had this opportunity to have a clean break, a true clean break. You just couldn't bring yourself to drop the name, could you? You just couldn't do it. I don't know if they thought they had enough PR based off of the idea, Houdini, that they were afraid of losing that. I don't know. I don't care why they kept it. But if they're having to get rid of every little Z's and wear logo on all the ramps and parts that they got and have to reconstruct everything and Joe's got to make it actually shootable, you know, it's, I mean, for all intents and purposes, it's brand spanking new, like they're saying. So, you know, I'll give them a pass on their whatever hang up it was that they decided to keep the name. But if all they kept was the name, I don't, why would they give the Magic Girl people anything? J-Pop didn't do anything for them then. So he has to pay them to build the machines would be my thought. But where's the money? He didn't have any money to finish. I thought that's what he told Nate on Coast to Coast Pinball in the interview in 2015. He didn't have any money. He couldn't finish it. Does he have enough money to contract finish it where they make money? I don't understand how that works. I don't understand how it works. I don't get it. I mean, they may be getting close to getting the deal with Pentasia sorted out so that what they cited on the first, that legal slash administrative hurdle, maybe that's almost resolved. I could see that. But then I still don't see what J-Pop does that they are like, oh, yeah, that's worth 23 magic girls. No problem. Yeah, at that point, I mean, if they've completely started over, there shouldn't be anything that's worth anything for them from him. And I agree with you. changing, why did if you're starting completely over from scratch, why not find a new theme other than the fact that it lets them save art assets and save on what bits of PR that might not be bad have already been put in place. I mean, because I don't really know what great PR they've had, other than the fact that everybody's talking about them, but nobody's talking about them in a good way. So, we'll see what happens. It just seems, it still seems sketchy. Like they're, I'm not saying they're not trying and they're not trying to do the right thing. I'm not saying they haven't gotten trapped into something that they maybe didn't completely understand. But it does seem like it's, they are flailing to pull something out of it. And who knows, this could be completely wrong. I mean, 10 years from now, we might be talking about American Pinball as one of the great pinball manufacturers. I just, I can't see the path from here to there at this time. No, there's still a lot about it that I don't fully understand. I mean, from their website, from their write-ups, from their own description, they describe themselves to me in how I'm interpreting it, that they want to be an entity where you come to them with designs and they build it for you. that they're just the manufacturing arm, not development. So why are they investing all this effort into developing their own in-house pen? I've always just assumed that they need to do one. The goal is just one, so that they can prove they can actually build a working pinball machine that they'll sell on their own. And then that will be the confidence builder that everyone will have so that, let's say Keith didn't go to work for Stern. He could have gone and said, here's my arch of design. How much will it cost for you to make these? And they'll be like, okay, we'll be able to sell them to you for $8,500 a piece. And then he can buy them and sell them for $10,000 or something. You know, that's what I thought they wanted to do. Because they also said that they want to be arcade manufacturers. So it's all about the – I thought it was all about the manufacturing. And I just assumed Houdini was a gimmick. A gimmick so they had a product to prove that they actually could do what they said, which is build pinball. Because, as we all know, building pinball is hard. But I don't know. It seems like they went about it in such a weird way. So I don't know. You're right. Flailing. My word would be floundering. We both like F-words. We're not going to use the true F-words because we're a clean podcast. But that's what we're thinking is they're probably F-worded. Yeah, most likely. Now, I can see a use for a group like you were talking about, somebody who has the ability to build games from somebody else's design. They don't have an in-house design studio. They are like there are designers for hire. They are a manufacturer for hire. I can see where that could do interesting things for the hobby as a whole. If you can get outside designers making custom stuff and doing even small runs where they don't have to worry about hand-building the whole thing, but at the same time they don't have to worry about setting up a factory and building and running all that stuff. So you can run small, you know, four or five guy, four or five man teams, but companies that are just, you know, a designer and a programmer and some art guys putting stuff together. I can see where something like that could do some really interesting stuff to the pinball, for the pinball community as a whole. I'm just not seeing it where, unless something magically turns up, that American Pembal digs themselves far enough out to become that guy. Yeah, it's just, I, the whole approach, I, you know, they've not spelled it out. So I'm trying to draw a line that follows some sort of logical path, and it's really difficult without having the inside scoop. I'm very skeptical that, I mean, they're not hopelessly tarnished. I just don't know that – I just don't see how it's worth it. I still don't. I don't know. I mean, unless it's like a big dream, a passion project to get this going, and that will, you know, with enough true grit, maybe they can do it. So, anyway, there was news, so we've reported on it. But I think it's time that we break free of this pinball section. We got other needs. We got other things to talk about. And in the video game section, we have a massive one, which would be – Oh, yeah, we do. So Nintendo finally unveiled a ton of information about the Nintendo Switch.