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The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 11

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 29m·analyzed·May 9, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Great British Pinball discusses forum moderation drama, community culture, and recent Stern releases.

Summary

Neil McRae and Scott Rundle discuss pinball community culture, moderation policies at Pinball Info (a major forum), and recent pinball game releases. The conversation touches on hygiene in the pinball community, controversial moderation decisions regarding player Colin, forum culture drift toward excessive censorship, and recent game acquisitions including Jaws and Pulp Fiction by Stern. They also critique recent releases from Pinball Brothers (Blues Brothers, ABBA) and discuss the secondary market.

Key Claims

  • Colin received a six-month ban from Pinball Info for making an insensitive joke (reference to 'Jaffa') on a post about fertility struggles

    high confidence · Neil McRae and Scott Rundle discussing Colin's ban; they debate whether the punishment was proportionate and question moderator consistency

  • Neil McRae is permanently banned from Pinball Info and has also been banned from Canada's Pinball Club

    high confidence · Neil directly states his permanent bans; he received three strikes from different moderators at Pinball Info

  • Pinball Info forum culture has shifted from toxic to overly censorious, with stricter moderation applied inconsistently based on user popularity

    high confidence · Both hosts discuss forum moderation philosophy; they argue less-known users would not have been banned for similar infractions

  • The Blues Brothers pinball machine by Pinball Brothers is poorly designed, borrowing layout from an old EM (Stars) without innovation

    high confidence · Scott criticizes the Blues Brothers game design; Neil owns a Stars machine and confirms the borrowed mechanics

  • Jaws by Stern is at code version 0.aa and has excellent theme integration including atmospheric night fishing/night swimming modes

    high confidence · Scott provides detailed gameplay impressions after acquiring the machine; discusses code updates and mode design

  • The Pinball Brothers team composition has changed and is no longer the 'original' leadership

    medium confidence · Neil mentions hearing that Pinball Brothers 'have split up' and it's not the original team anymore, but does not provide specifics

  • ABBA pinball game features a helicopter mechanical element that is innovative but the overall artwork and presentation looks cheap

    medium confidence · Scott discusses ABBA's design; notes the helicopter is a step in the right direction but other aesthetic elements are weak

  • Elton John pinball has strong market momentum despite being a music-themed game, setting a difficult bar for competitors like ABBA

Notable Quotes

  • “I think the problem is, and it's a theory I'm going to run with, they can deny it. I don't really care. You'll get banned. Yeah, whatever. but basically I feel like they didn't understand what they were doing when they did the points and I think they didn't realise it was for six months then they were like oh should we have an internal conversation about whether or not that points was adequate to what he did”

    Neil McRae @ N/A — Articulates theory that Pinball Info moderators doubled down on Colin's ban out of defensiveness rather than proportionate discipline

  • “I mean we've gone the exact opposite of where I would want the world to be, where we're going way too far the other way. and it's turned into a bit of a fluffy go la la happy joy joy don't offend anyone or we'll ban you for life attitude”

    Scott Rundle @ N/A — Critiques excessive moderation culture and chilling effect on forum participation

  • “It's not really a game, is it? If it's not going to get in and produce any meaningful number, does it qualify as a pinball machine? I think it qualifies as a dream in Mike's wildest fantasy.”

    Scott Rundle (about Blues Brothers) @ N/A — Harsh criticism of Blues Brothers game viability and design philosophy

  • “Jaws is epic, and this is the scary thing, right? The code is already brilliant, and they're at version.aa. I'm kind of trying to dream what else they can add to this game”

    Scott Rundle @ N/A — Expresses high satisfaction with Jaws and implies code update potential is already substantial

  • “It dims all the lights and it is you know it's stranger, everyone raves about stranger things being atmospheric. The UV play field, yeah. This pisses all over it. Even with the UV?”

    Scott Rundle (about Jaws night fishing mode) @ N/A — Compares Jaws' atmospheric design favorably to Stern's Stranger Things, noting superior lighting implementation

  • “I'm forever. Oh, is it? There's no way back for me. No, you must be so upset. Oh, every day. Every day I look up.”

    Neil McRae and Scott Rundle (discussing Neil's permanent Pinball Info ban) @ N/A — Darkly humorous exchange about Neil's permanent ban status

Entities

Pinball InfoorganizationNeil McRaepersonScott RundlepersonColinpersonJawsgamePulp FictiongameBlues Brothersgame

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Significant community backlash against Pinball Info's six-month ban of Colin for an insensitive joke; hosts argue moderation is inconsistent based on user popularity and has created chilling effect on forum participation

    high · Extended discussion of Colin's ban, assertion that less-known users would not face same punishment, debate about moderator intent and proportionality

  • ?

    product_concern: Blues Brothers game criticized as lacking innovation, borrowing directly from EM-era Stars layout without meaningful modernization

    high · Scott: 'It's totally ripped it off' and 'there's no innovation'; Neil confirms Stars as the source template

  • $

    market_signal: Hosts express fatigue with music-themed pinball games; concern that ABBA will struggle competing against Elton John's strong momentum

    medium · Scott: 'I'm bored of them' and 'you're really going to compete against that'; discussion of Elton John's 'spot up' momentum

  • ?

    code_update: Jaws at code version 0.aa with 'already brilliant' implementation; hosts speculate significant further development possible

    high · Scott: 'The code is already brilliant, and they're at version.aa. I'm kind of trying to dream what else they can add'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Jaws demonstrates superior atmospheric design through dynamic lighting (night fishing/night swimming modes); hosts compare favorably to Stranger Things UV implementation

    high · Scott praises Jaws' mode design: 'This pisses all over it. Even with the UV'; compares lighting integration favorably to Stranger Things

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.269

0:00
How's your trip, kid? We won't be hearing from them anytime soon. Or ever. That's a nice jacket. Thanks. Yeah.
0:52
Pre-breed. Shag, go. Viggo, English, please, come on Stay, goddammit What did I do? We did what you asked No one saw shit I'm not talking about Atlantic City, you know What the You mean Aurelius? Somebody stole the fucking car Oh, fuck, Viggo Right, you stay.
1:51
It's not what you did, son, that angers me so. It's who you did it to. Who? The fucking nobody? That fucking nobody is John Wick.
2:21
He once was an associate of ours. we call him Baba Yaga the boogeyman well John wasn't exactly the boogeyman he was the one you sent to kill the fucking boogeyman oh John is a man of focus commitment and sheer will.
2:57
Something you know very little about. I once saw him kill three men in a bar with a pencil. With a fucking...
3:12
pencil. With a pencil. Suddenly one day he asked to leave. It's over a woman, of course. So I made a deal with him.

medium confidence · Scott mentions hearing Elton John's momentum is 'spot up' (strong); he expresses concern about ABBA competing with it

  • “I'm going to say this to a pinball audience, showers and washing. I don't know what it is with pinball people. It's ridiculous, man. They do need to look after their hygiene more.”

    Neil McRae @ N/A — Blunt commentary on hygiene standards in pinball community based on venue experience

  • “I'll be amazed he sells a single game. I'll be honest with you. I will be amazed.”

    Scott Rundle (about Blues Brothers) @ N/A — Expresses very low confidence in Blues Brothers commercial viability

    • ABBA
    game
    Elton Johngame
    Pinball Brotherscompany
    Stranger Thingsgame
    Starsgame
    The Great British Pinball Podcastorganization
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Domino Arcadevenue
    Mandyperson
    Canada's Pinball Cluborganization
    Kanedaperson
    Davidperson
    Nickperson
    Aliengame
    Predatorgame
    Keith Elwinperson
  • ?

    personnel_signal: Pinball Brothers team composition has shifted; original founders no longer running operations

    medium · Neil: 'The Pinball Brothers have all kind of split up and it's not the original Pinball Brothers running the place anymore'

  • ?

    community_signal: Significant hygiene issues observed in pinball community; Domino Arcade hosts multiple attendees at events who fail to wash hands post-bathroom

    high · Neil documents specific incident: wife noted multiple event attendees didn't wash hands; hygiene messaging to attendees improved behavior 'slightly'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Jaws initially received mixed reviews but Scott argues reputation improving through play; Colin (referenced on forum) contradicts Scott's enthusiasm but actually owns Pro version and loves it

    medium · Scott: 'it got a bit of a panning when it came out for a few folks, but trust me'; reference to Colin's salt-pour post despite reportedly loving the game

  • ?

    product_strategy: ABBA helicopter mechanic represents innovation attempt but overall execution feels 'cheap'; hosts question whether differentiation sufficient vs. music game fatigue

    medium · Scott on helicopter: 'at least it's innovation'; on overall aesthetic: 'the rest of it just looks terrible looks cheap'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Neil running Domino Arcade; restricts access to certain undesirable community members; faces challenges managing tournament events with mixed audience quality

    medium · Neil: 'I don't open it as much as I used to because I don't like certain people coming here'; mentions finding workarounds to manage tournament attendee quality

  • ?

    industry_signal: UK distributors feel obligated to stock poorly-performing games (Blues Brothers, Spinal Tap) due to existing deals with Pinball Brothers; creates market drag

    medium · Neil: 'there are stupid people out there. And sadly, there's distributors who feel they're... feel that they have to take them'; specific mention of Spinal Tap machine with David at RetroArchades

  • ?

    collector_signal: Scott describes difficulty restraining impulse purchases (100-inch TV, potential pinball machines) despite household financial constraints; resisting urge to sell roadshow for house move funds

    high · Scott: 'I get money and I just want to spend it'; purchase of 100-inch TV without measuring; wife (Holly) advocating house funds over pinball acquisition

    • 3:38
    I gave him an impossible task. A job no one could have pulled off. The bodies he buried that day, lay the foundation of what we are now. And then my son, a few days after his wife died. steal his car and kill his fucking dog father I can make this right oh how do you plan that by finishing what I started what the fuck did he hear fucking word I said up I have so sproff lupa Jalous yes yes we send John will come for you
    4:41
    You will do nothing because you can do nothing. So get the fuck out of my sight. Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast. And here are your hosts, Scott Rundell and Neil McRae. We've got guns. John Wick doesn't have guns. We're going to shoot ourselves in the head. Seems like Stern's probably doing this metaphorically at the moment, but there you go. Indeed, mate, indeed. I'm Neil McRae. This is The Great Pinball Podcast. Are we on? Is this episode 11 or 12? I can't remember. It's something. It's the next episode. We don't care. I'm joined, as always... By Scott Rundle. Hello, hello. Hey, Scott. Long time? Yes. you've been busy i have i have i'm very tired recovering from covid which i only realized i actually had um yesterday after being told by my wife it's man flu just go over it it's the first time i've caught it that definitely definitely threw me for a six that one i've never felt so ill yeah it's bizarre as i was saying earlier i think i've had it three maybe four times and the only way that i know that i've got it is the test I wish I had that. I honestly thought I just had some sort of thing like rhino flu or something like that. Zero symptoms. I feel fine. One time I had a bit of a headache, but I don't know if that was related to it or it was just because I get headaches every now and again with my eyes. But my wife, she catches it. And literally last time, no, last time, first time she caught it, I was close to falling in an ambulance because she was ill, seriously ill. So, yeah, COVID's still out there, folks. It hasn't gone away. Be safe. and I'm going to say this to a pinball audience, showers and washing.
    6:47
    I don't know what it is with pinball people. It's ridiculous, man. They do need to look after their hygiene more. Let me tell you, I'm going to share this.
    6:57
    So I've had a couple of events here in the Domino Arcade. I don't open it as much as I used to because I don't like certain people coming here, and I can't stop them when I do a tournament. but, although I think I've found a way around that, but the, so the toilet in our house is kind of opposite the living room and at the end, the next day he said, Mandy, my wife said to me, you know how many people went to the loo and didn't wash their hands? And I was like, are you joking me? So the next time I had an event, I shared this fact with everybody and Mandy said that the washing of hands quotient went up slightly um so i don't know what it is but honestly people trust me on this right having a bath wearing fresh or a shower wearing every day every day wearing fresh clothes getting out of bed at a reasonable time of the day um just getting your life together cheers dad will make all the difference i can i can honestly say i used to be one of those smelly people some people say you still are i have to shower every day but Yeah, me too. My body is not designed to knock. Exactly. Mine definitely isn't. And, you know, I used to not give a shit. I can't wake up without a shower. I must admit. Not me either. It's like I feel horrible. Yeah. So, Luke, just do it anyway. After we've done that. And, Luke, also, we do realize some people have genuine health issues around this. But still, you know, you can do better. Yeah. And also, you know, that's one of the downsides of the club. But we had a couple of people here who were, like, just not pleasant and causing members to complain. And, of course, everyone says, oh, Neil, you have to tell them. I'm like, gee, thanks for that. Actually, to be fair, Matt did a couple of the – See, Neil, this is why people hate you so much.
    8:47
    No, it's just – I just look in a world of – I mean, it's not like the Greeks built this thing called plumbing. You know, it's not a new thing. Follows the Romans, no? It's not a new thing. No, it was, maybe it was, whoever. But someone built it. We pay a freaking fortune for it, water bills and shit. So if I can use it. Anyway, let's move on from that slight tangent there.
    9:14
    But, yeah, it's been an exciting month since we were last on with the guys, which, again, big thanks to them. It was a great discussion. Has it been that quick? God, it's been a month. Wow. It's been, I think, just almost, well, maybe four weeks, maybe five weeks. and we had a huge amount of feedback on that episode, it's I think our biggest watched episode as well so five people watched it I say what's kind of bizarre is we were the top ten gaming podcast in New Zealand for two whole weeks which probably means that there's like four people who do gaming in New Zealand anyway yeah so good thanks to Scott and Paul again for that. Colin, you mean? Colin and Paul for that. And speaking of Colin, oh dear.
    10:13
    We're already getting on to this horrible subject. As I mentioned, let's just get out of the way. Colin is the nicest person on the planet. He is. He truly is. And I don't expect the clientele of administrators at the Pinball Info House of Hypocrisy to change their views. But come on, six months? I mean, ban me for six months. I deserve it. I think, look, I get why they did what they did. I think the problem is, and it's a theory I'm going to run with, they can deny it. I don't really care.
    10:53
    You'll get banned. Yeah, whatever. but basically I feel like they didn't understand what they were doing when they did the points and I think they didn't realise it was for six months then they were like oh should we have an internal conversation about whether or not that points was adequate to what he did and then obviously everyone started kicking off and they thought well no we're going to double down on this now we've got no way to go so we're going to double down and I think that's exactly how it went out can I give you another take right if this had been some person that no one really knew I don't think there would have been any issue but why is it why is Cole seen as a person of debate I mean what's he done because he's popular I genuinely believe had this have been that guy that was on the forum for a while what was his name PFT he had some pins in a pub down Gatwick you would have got away with it I think from my perspective I've seen a very cultural difference in the forum since when I joined to when I used to find the forum incredibly toxic but I was just like whatever people can talk I'll live in my own lane I used to do that a lot I can't be bothered with all this noise I'm just going to do my stupid little shop blogs and people can view them or not. And then some people started making some remarks about how shit my work was in the shop blogs. And I messaged the forum moderators at the time and said, this is shit. Yeah. I said, like, I don't really want that. And they just said, we can do. I mean, meanwhile, we've gone the exact opposite of where I would want the world to be, where we're going way too far the other way. and it's turned into a bit of a fluffy go la la happy joy joy don't offend anyone or we'll ban you for life attitude so it's like alright well whatever it put me off personally and I will say this as contentious as it might be putting anything out there in that forum because you're going to offend somebody at one point or another and then they're going to take that the wrong way and then they're going to ban you so it's like alright it can be a dead forum I mean I skate on the edge of the rules because I'm a wind up merchant right yeah you are a little bit new let's face it but it's it's not done in for the most part 99 of the time it's done in to be funny right sure i got banned for posting one word jaffa yeah i i i've spoken a few people about this you are it's a generational thing now i hate to break to you but that it's just as much as what like you know cole i think cole again didn't mean anything by it and i i see humor in a lot of programs i still watch to this day that have i would say offensive content in it that people wouldn't like in between us is a perfect example where there's literally a foreign exchange student from france and he opens with the line of i hate arabs it's not allowed anymore you can't say that it's funny but not to everybody and as a result i mean we'd get you banned and this is the thing it's like there are certain things in friends there's things in family guy there's things in south park yeah they go through stereotype and it's just unfortunately people i think have disconnected from allowing from a an offensive joke like ricky chavez is very much an offensive joke kind of comedian that you just can't have that in a forum And they don't want it. It's their forum. They can do what they want. Look, and look, of course, here's the thing, though, right? Everyone that's written, you know, the Jaffa sketch and in between and all that, right? Let me tell you, none of them got out of bed and said, you know what? I'm going to freaking offend someone today. And they start writing away, right? Right. People just need to step back, right? Now, don't get me wrong. there are some moments in history and some things that I've seen and witnessed where for some people there's the thing is if you tolerate it you support it, right? And I completely get that, right?
    15:18
    But for me what's the intent, right? Now if I go on the forum and say someone accuses me of cheating and I say that they're a dick, my intent is to say that they're a dick. If I go on a forum and someone's posted that he's you know, I still can't believe this because in my mind if there was a ban it should have been raising this topic. Someone's posted about, you know, trying to have a kid which is really difficult. I try and lighten the mood by saying Jaffa and it was said, you know, the intent was to cause humour, right? It's insensitive at the very least. It's not insensitive It can be, man. Well, it might have been I get it from both sides right and I understand why they took the action they did, I don't agree with it I'm entitled to not agree with it I don't really like the whole attitude that came from one moderator that said well if you don't like it I'm going to report it all to the police, wow okay that went from 0 to 11 in no time at all I just feel like as you say people need to step back understand the intent, understand the context if you disagree with what he said that's you and I've got no problems with that if you want to say that that's fine what I don't like is that it did turn into a witch hunt and I personally I would have felt very unwelcome coming back I probably wouldn't come back if that had happened to me I don't want to speak for Colin but I haven't spoke to him I know he's in fact he'll probably be agitated as mentioned again but I'm sure he will I'm sorry, Carl. It's Neil's fault. It's my fault. No, but from my point of view, look, we're the only podcast covering Great Britain, right? So this is the Great Britain Forum, and I think we have to say something and say, you know, maybe the next time this happens… Well, I think next time it won't happen. I think people will be very, very afraid of saying anything remotely offensive on that forum. Yeah, I mean, the second thing, I mean, the other thing that kind of, that would have irritated me, and look, Nick, who's the moderator here, I know Nick well, he's a great guy, he helped out a lot, UK Open and other stuff, he's put up with a lot of my shit, and I know,
    17:39
    you know, he tries to find the right path on this, which is not easy. No, I imagine it's not. But, you know, it's just, you know, the other thing, it kind of looked like there was kind of maybe not a change in rules, but a re-emphasis of the rules. And I don't think it was as clear. If I'm cynical, the T's and C's came up after Cole's ban and it felt like they'd been written in to address what had happened rather than as it happened. yeah I mean if you search back this is still on the forum right now but in the early days when I joined the forum I mean there was some real head cases on there that took offence to my kind of you know well Pimbal needs to be modern and I took some real abuse some physical abuse like because you know because I've got such a great physique you know they all piled in on it. It's still on there. You can search for it and you can find it. Really? Yeah, nothing happened. Not that I give a shit. Well, the thing is, Neil, you're made of sterner things, I'd like to think. You've got a thick skin. It's the hypocrisy of it that kind of took me. Look, as I say, we've probably gone on it too much. Again, apologies, Cole, for bringing up a sore subject. If you want them for Pinfest, I have got special, specially being made right now,
    19:04
    non... a t-shirt that says I'm a non-university educated boomer. Oh, I like that. That's good. And I don't want any money from them. Just donate money to the National Autistic Society. Show me that you've donated a tenner. I will give you a free t-shirt. I will buy two.
    19:24
    I went to university, but even I found that statement ignorant and offensive. I was just like, wow. It's also plainly wrong. It's plainly wrong because most people on the forum are Gen Xers. I don't think there's any boomers very few yeah which which kind of made me laugh that someone had got it i could be the first one to say university is a complete waste of time at least in my field of work technical qualifications are more useful than the a degree where i work yeah the other thing i'd say about it and you know i've modded some big forums i used to be a modder at av forums and we had some real head cases there um and it's not an easy job but the other thing is the community is the community and you've got to let the community speak because if you don't you wake up one day and you don't have a community. I've seen it on car forums and other stuff. Anyway, let's draw a line under that.
    20:16
    I was kind of also pleasantly pleased to see that there was a three post get Neil McCrae back on the forum. I was pleased that there was at least one post but three made my day. Neil, how long are you banned for? Is it permanent now? I'm forever. Oh, is it? There's no way back for me. No, you must be so upset. Oh, every day. Every day I look up. You're like the British version of Kaneda. It just occurred to me. I'm banned from his channel. No, really? Yeah, I'm banned. I got fed up of his whining about prices and posting adverts about how much money people had lost.
    21:03
    It's just a nonsense. And I said to him, mate, change the tune. And then also he got a few things wrong. So he doesn't like to... When someone sensible calls out that he's wrong, his answer is to ban you. Okay. So I feel quite proud that I am banned from Canada's pinball club. I had no idea you were banned from Canada's pinball club. Yes, I am.
    21:24
    Actually, I'm more proud of that than being banned of Pinball Info. We're going over it, I'll leave it I am surprised it's permanent I was just trying to figure out why I can explain why, it's because I've had three in your eye I'm not arguing about it Oh, it's a free strike It's a fair cop Although I'd say the first ban was bullshit The second two were Gilius Charge banned me But, hey look I'm just enjoying You know all the discussion about prices and some of the games that are up for sale you know nine grand for a game that's had more plays than Jesus' original flute and I probably offended someone by saying that but I mean just the market is in a funny spot at the moment. It's mental mate, it's crazy I mean don get me wrong I actually had two offers on my roadshow which you would be like oh he getting rid of it good but I But long story short I just decided to pull it because what Holly was doing because we looking to house move She was like, well, you need to put that money aside for the house move. I said, I'm not doing that. I'm not selling a pin and then putting that towards some solicitor's fees. Oh, no, no, mate. I want another pin.
    22:42
    Look, so look, I don't agree with you on that. I'm with Holly, right? I bet you are. Mate, no, seriously, right? the best thing you can do is be in a house that's nice and got everything you want there's just no better feeling in my view it beats everything and then of course you fill it up with pins right I have had another guy message me just yesterday and he's like I really really wanted it if you do change your mind I still might sell it because it's one less pin to move and it's roadshow yeah and it's roadshow yeah oh i have to say roadshow i'd much it's kind of funny i'm much rather roadshow than abba um yes good segue i mean like yeah i'll give you that it's like i i don't know what it is with like music pins at the moment but i'm just a bit like can we just change the subject i don't record yeah change the record there's a good one i just i looked at abba right and i i was like when i saw the helicopter when they first leaked it and i was like was it gonna be mash that's a bit weird where would it be mash and then someone said oh it's abba and i was like based on what and there was always the album art yeah i actually when i saw the helicopter i thought abba as well because i am a people i'm actually not everyone knows i'm a closet fan right you're a closet you know abba's coming out by the pimple brothers it was like one high and then it was a massive low But actually, the other game that Roadshow's better on, and we didn't mention this in the pre-brief, but I'm going to bring it in, the Blues Brothers.
    24:20
    Oh, yeah. What an absolute shit show. It's not really a game, is it? If it's not going to get in and produce any meaningful number, does it qualify as a pinball machine? I think it qualifies as a dream in Mike's wildest fantasy. I mean I honestly like there were people out there drawing AIR even with their malformed alien hands looked better than what he did I was a bit like what is what was the general train of thought here and apparently it looks like it's borrowed a design off an old EM so there's no innovation I was just a bit like what waste of a license? Actually I have that game here in the Domino Arcade Oh you have the layout? No it's not an EM it's an early solid state Oh, is it? Okay. It's a game called Stars. And actually, Stars is the glorious external electronics game. It's brutal. It's tough. But it's such a fun game. And he's totally ripped it off. And then also, at the same time, looks like he's trying to bastardize it.
    25:22
    But let me – here's the Venn diagram I want everyone to remember in their head. Pinball player – sorry, games room owners who would like a cheap pinball machine who also write open source code.
    25:38
    Because that was a kind of... That was the target demographic, wasn't it? That demographic to me has blown my mind. I'm thinking of launching a cheap iPhone. I'm going to make a really cheap phone that comes with nothing on it except a compiler so those people who want a cheap phone can write their own apps. I know so many people in pinball that barely even lift the hood of the machine. Like, I just cannot, in my head, figure out how they're going to code it.
    26:10
    I've seen people struggle where the power switch is. Or even, how do I start the game? They're pulling the thing, and there's the start button. You can see them flashing on my screen. Where's the freaking green button?
    26:22
    Yeah, it's somewhat bizarre. I'll be amazed he sells a single game. I'll be honest with you. I will be amazed. Oh, no, there are stupid people out there.
    26:33
    And sadly, there's distributors who feel they're, you know, because they've got a deal with them, feel that they have to take them. So somewhere in the UK. Sorry for them. Somewhere in the UK, guarded by a dog with one eye and three legs, is a spinal tap.
    26:55
    Such is the demand. I know the man who has that game, and he's a very nice fellow. I'm not going to speak on his behalf or say anything actually, I'm just going to say David at RetroArchades who you're referring to, is a very nice guy he is a very nice guy if he wants to buy a pinball machine based on Spinal Tap and try and sell it power to him but probably I would be focusing on other ventures David, yeah, I mean buy an ABBA, it'll do better I think ABBA would do better actually i think it was it was okay i looked at it and i thought it's not terrible i just don't want another music pin i'm bored of them i after elton john as well it's a bit like you're really going to compete against that yeah exactly i mean elton john's such a great game and i'm hearing that they've you know the momentum of that game is spot up which is which is good news but uh yeah i mean look for me abba i think i actually think the helicopter mech looks pretty good the rest of it just looks terrible looks cheap doesn't look like at least it's innovation which you know we'll talk about a lack of in the future in the next bit but i mean i i think that's something in the step in the right direction i think the guys have got good talent i think they like well i look at alien and i know you know the history of it and all that crap right but i look at like how they do the the new code and they added sigourney weaver in and the the way they do the callouts the music and the um the dynamic text that interacts with the lcd it all looks good it all ties into the theme nicely they do have good coders i think in the team i i just want them to work on a theme that this isn't music i i think it was i was hoping personally it was going to be something like predator um i know that was obviously another game that was licensed correctly and turned out to be a big, giant nightmare. But if anyone can turn a bad license into a good opportunity, it's them. So maybe you can just cross to do something. I hear that the Pinball Brothers have all kind of split up and it's not the original Pinball Brothers running the place anymore. It's not really, no, not anymore.
    29:09
    Anyway, Luke, hopefully, I mean, I hope ABBA sells more than the Blues Brothers, which is a pain to say. I think it will. I'm pretty sure it will. It'll sell two and it'll sell more than the Blues Brothers is my prediction.
    29:23
    Well, I actually kind of still wish I was working at BT because I would have loved to have, like we would have had a call meltdown when both those games were launched. So David's phone would literally be ringing so aggressively, it would literally just explode. Such was the demand for those two games. You're so mean. I know but I mean I'm not having a good David he's a hard working I mean he runs around he's only in his 20s you have to remember that I wish I was that much of an entrepreneur when I was in my 20s I was just playing games all day I like him I just my advice was you know buy stuff that sells yeah get behind the right brand indeed speaking of brands so let's have a quick chat about So I'm guessing because you're in the process of moving house that your kind of pinball in and outs and activities are somewhat curtailed. Is that the case? Yeah, look, I was going to get another game, I'd say. But trying to be sensible with my money is proving hard since I joined this hobby. I really, I just, I get money and I just want to spend it. I go, oh, I've got my bonus. Good boy, I can buy that. it's really really hard for me at the moment to be sitting on a money that I just I could buy a game with but I can't and that sounds sad and probably pretentious but I just I'm a big baby I love to be impulsed by and I really did want this game I just can't help myself but I have I've stopped it's making me miserable I bought a 100 inch TV on impulse and I didn't even measure where it was going. Love it. That's great. And it barely fits. It does fit. So on that side where I've got my projector. Yeah.
    31:20
    So the thing that started this is the projector bulb started flashing that it was near end of life. And I was like, I went and looked at it. It's like 400 quid for a bulb. I'm like, what? They are expensive. Yeah. And the projector's been great. It's a low throw one by Short Throw. Yeah. Yeah, Short Throw Predator, your Acer. Is that a game brand? Acer, yeah, I know the brand. 4K, it's really, really, it's been great.
    31:44
    And then I happened to notice, oh, wait a minute, they do big TVs now. And 100-inch TV is pretty much the same size as my projector screen. True. So those glorious people at, well, actually three places were all doing special offers.
    32:00
    Let me guess, did you do Richer Sounds? I did do Richer Sounds. in the end I was going to do so I was trying to get it I literally wanted to buy it and take it home the same day but no one actually I could have done that in Costco for Samsung 100 inch TV for 2100 quid I was like what including that is good actually I could have and it wasn't like you know Samsung do like a low mid and high it was the mid one, it wasn't the shit one and then they also had a Hisense, but they only had that 85, they had a Sony I actually wanted the Sony, but you can't they're like gold dust I'm still a stickler for games just because I like their blacks their black reproduction is always second to none for me I am typically as well but for this, it's kind of it won't really be used for, I don't watch movies a lot in here, I've got that in the house so anyway, I bought I went to there's a I bought a Hisense 100 inch one and I've seen I've dealt with Hisense on other stuff, phones predominantly and this TV so I've got a high end Sony OLED in my front room that you could probably run a small village off in cost and I would say the picture quality is almost as good on this Hisense which was, I'm going to say a quarter, no, less than a third of the price, right? Right. And it's got this thing called Vidya which has got all these they've got their own streaming channels so you can watch escape to the country for hours. It's just a channel with nothing but escape to the country on it. It's got all these other wacky channels. But it's also got 240 hertz 4K.
    34:15
    And let me tell you, playing Fortnite on that is a whole other experience. Anyway, moving on from that. So, you can see... Did you buy anything? Yeah, I did. You can see my Pulp Fiction just there. and Jaws is there, so they've both arrived. So talk me through Jaws a little bit. Are you still liking it now that it's in the house? It's epic, and this is the scary thing, right? The code is already brilliant, and they're at version.aa.
    34:53
    I'm kind of trying to dream what else they can add to this game, but I'm really enjoying it. I still haven't figured out... I like to have a path that I follow when I play a game. And I haven't quite figured out the path. I've got it on Pulp Fiction now. I know what I do. Is it mode-based at all? It is mode-based. But like with all Elwynn games, you've got things randomly appearing. Oh, okay. You know, like there's the... What's his name? Brody. Not Brody.
    35:27
    The Irish guy. the captain i forget his name um he's got his mode he's got his modes there's there's there's kind of sharp there's just so much going on and let me tell you right theme integration wise right stern have totally nailed it the videos and the music and the light show there's one mode called night fishing or something and it just dims all the lights and and it is you know it's stranger, everyone raves about stranger things being atmospheric. The UV play field, yeah. This pisses all over it. Even with the UV? Yeah, even with the UV, it dims the lights, and I think it's called night swimming. Oh, there's two modes, there's night fishing and night swimming, and just, and the music kind of changes, and you're trying to, and it's phenomenal.
    36:19
    I did have some weird issue with the button, though. I had to rotate the button, because whenever the ball would touch. The extra action button? No, the right flipper button. Because whenever the ball would touch the launcher, when a ball was served, the plunger would move. Or if you short plunged and it went up and down, it would flip the flipper and it was just catching the edge. It was making contact. Yeah. Interesting. Anyway, it's a great game. It's another Elwynn classic. I know it got a bit of a panning when it came out for a few folks, but trust me, as I said back then, in fact, actually, I need to mention this. My good friend Colin. You only wound him up for the last time. I'm going to wind him up again. I wind him up consistently.
    37:12
    So someone posted that I liked it on the forum, and Colin's response was like a big picture of someone pouring salt.
    37:21
    All right. let me tell you, Colin has a pro and he loves it I know, he says he loves it I've got to eat loads of salt I think we mentioned this already on the previous one but I had to mention it is a really great game, there's more to come video mode's fun the upper playfield anyone who says that takes away flow is on cocaine there's no taking away of flow because the ball moves so quickly, you don't have a chance you can't stop the ball up there It's literally, the ball goes up there and you've got one opportunity to hit it in a specific direction. And if you don't take that opportunity, the ball then goes on its normal path. There is no flow interruption.
    38:05
    And it's fantastic. The only downside is, from a turnaround point of view, it's a really long playing game. Oh, is it? So it's not that hard, the shots aren't that brutal or tight? No, it's not that it – yes, it's just the ball comes back to the flipper safely quite a lot of the times. I don't know if I find that a bad thing or a good thing. I really don't. I'm so mixed on games like that. Do I want a short game, but do I want a game that goes on for like an hour? Well, that's why you need at least 10 pinball machines in your life so that you've got a choice, right? Every time, like, because I'm moving now, they're always going, oh, so you're going to downsize? Downsize? What the hell are you on about? I'm at 13. Do you think I'm going to downsize? You're looking for a bigger place, mate. Yeah. That's all. I'm literally in our list of houses. I'm like, barn conversion, that sounds good. Yep, I can get like at least 50 pins in there. I am not of the attitude. By the time I hit like 60, I'm going to have 100 machines. I have no doubt in my mind. And actually, I mean, just speaking of that, at the weekend, I was commentating remotely, actually. It's quite cool. For Aimless Pinball, if you go to twitch.tv slash aimlesspinball, Jim Belsito who runs InDisc, he's also an operator and a glorious guy great pinball player he has just opened his barn his pinball barn with 60 stunning games in it, so if you go onto that Twitch site you'll see videos from it, he's hosting the pinball world championships this month I think if but 19 is going to be hosted there, actually we've got 3 Brits going there. We've got Josh, we've got Yen and we've got Nick.
    39:46
    Good luck to you guys. They're going to have a whale of a time. The games that are there are stunners.
    39:54
    I was super jealous. It's beautifully done. It's way better than this place, way better than any place I've ever seen actually. Even commercial pinball places.
    40:05
    I would love to be good enough to qualify just so I could go to that event. Check it out. Aimless AIM L-E-S-S. And thanks to Amy and Matt for inviting me. I did a bit of remote. They stream out, but they're playing, so they need people to commentate. So I did the first couple of hours on Saturday morning. Yeah, so I've also bought Lethal Weapon 3. Okay. That's a random purchase, isn't it? Yeah, it was. You're a diggerist? Really? Wow.
    40:38
    It's a decent tournament game. That's why I bought it. I'll go in the club. I've just bought another Embryon because the one I've got in the club is a bit hoping there's been a lot of cheap pins up recently it's damn hard to say no it's the thing I love those classics they're such great games and they really I've got a Quixie over here and I just really enjoy playing it at home I've never really had a classic at home all the time but I'm super enjoying it and then actually I started playing Godzilla again which is bizarre I haven't played it in a while mate I'm still sorry I hate this game you'll be so glad because it's had zero plays it's just been sat in my family room area collecting dust people hear this they might say Neil can I get that Godzilla if he's not freaking playing it it's not getting any plays I'm not going to lie oh dear every time I play it I play it once and I go bloody game and I turn it back off I just can't be bothered with it. I don't honestly get the fascination with that game. I also got the topper for... So I was on holiday in Florida, I got the topper for Foo Fighters. That doesn't surprise me that you would spend two grand on a topper. It's pretty sweet. Is it too grand sweet? It's not too grand sweet. Look, a pinball machine isn't ten grand sweet. No, it's not. Well, it's not fifteen grand sweet, you mean. That's what they are these days. Well, exactly. And actually, we should move on to that because I just found someone I lost.
    42:14
    So let's kind of pivot into the thing that everyone's talking about right now which is Mr. Wick. Gunless Wick. I am no gun nut but and I know you said it to me before we went on live that you didn't notice there wasn't any guns I felt the game felt off as soon as I saw the playfield artwork and I was like, okay, it's a bit weird he's not holding a gun and then it occurred to me that there wasn't a gun present even in the gun cache where the part with the bash toy is where he's obviously got the sledgehammer out and he's getting out his weapons and it had what looks to be like bullets decals which look like they came out of something of a Super Nintendo kind of graphic which is really weird and then I was like where's the guns? And then it occurred to me there were no guns. And I'm like sorry.
    43:14
    I don't honestly believe that the brand owners, as in the intellectual property owners of the brand.
    43:23
    I don't think they would have turned around and said, hey, you can't put guns in our film about guns. I've got a theory on that. Have you? I'd love to hear what's gone. First things first, I love John Wick.
    43:36
    It's not, again, I love it in the same way I love Back to the Future or Matrix. Yeah, it's not a cult. It's not like a... For me, Batman and Bond are like the grail stuff for me, right? Interesting, okay. But this isn't. And for me, gameplay is everything. I'll have a Barbie pin if it shoots nice, right? I honestly don't give. Although Pokemon, I have to say, is going to be a... Pokemon has to be like the messiah of pinball for me to buy it, because it just doesn't do anything for me at all. Well, then you've come against what you've just said, but all right, carry on. But Iron Maiden, I was like, no, I'm not buying that. Why the hell would I buy that rubbish? And then I played the game and ordered it right away. I mean, you know, this is the bizarre pinball. I think for me, though, I'm very much in the camp of if Stern won my money, or any pinball company wants my money, it's got to tick all the boxes. It can't tick some of them. And look, I kind of, I'm with you on that, especially with the prices the way they are. Yeah. You know, you're paying 10 grand for something or you're paying even 8 grand, frankly.
    44:49
    You know I think I said this on the last podcast or I was on some other thing and it was bizarre for me to see actually my daughter was buying a car she was trading her car and getting another one and they had a second hand one of her car I think it was an Ibiza or something like that and the car there was the exact same retail second hand 5,000 miles on the clock was the exact retail pound note price of a premium pinball machine and i looked at it and thought where's the value right and and it just when you put a pinball machine next to a car like that and say you know volkswagen brand they're pretty decent they're not they're not cheap it just it's like really and and i kind of struggle with it but um you know i go back to what i've said previously which is, you know, there is no question that the hobby is being negatively impacted from the current pricing regime.
    45:56
    I think what makes it difficult is, and I raised this on the forum earlier, is that it's the new in-box purchases that are losing out at the moment. So anybody who buys a new in-box game and then doesn't, for whatever reason, we're not in a country let's face it where we can go up and play a game and try before you buy so we have to buy blind so we get into a situation where we've put down like 13 grand on a game or 15,000 pounds on a game that we haven't tried we don't like it and we put it back up and then we're expected to lose four grand yeah it's just like so i don't know how people do it yeah so look i have a slowly i i acknowledge what you're saying i have a slightly different view there's no gun to anyone's head that says buy a new pinball. Yeah, yeah, look. We need people to buy, but we shouldn't expect those people to then sell to be that punished. Yeah, and there was some bozo on Pinside on the John Wick hype thread saying, you know, just wait a few weeks and you'll get it at a grand cheaper. And I was like, what if everybody does that?
    46:59
    You know, but there is, without a shadow of a doubt, pricing is now seriously harming this, even the pro pricing.
    47:12
    I think the problem is the used market is doing a nosedive at the moment, but the new pricing is maintaining. It's like there's a gap there, and that's the problem. The market keeps trying to correct it.
    47:23
    As a crazy car buyer, it's the same. That's going on exactly the same place in the dealerships. I've seen that. Literally, I saw a documentary of a guy in a Ford dealership in America, and there was just rows of trucks, just literally rows and rows of them not being bought. You drive out, you know, you buy like a 3 Series BMW or a Merck C-Class, you drive off the forecourt, cha-ching, five grand gone instantly.
    47:53
    You know, three months later, seven grand, maybe eight grand. So, you know, and of course, they're probably 25,000, 30,000 pound motors, so it's a bit different from pinball. Yeah, percentage of loss is probably less. Probably less, but I think the thing, and I kind of feel a bit frustrated about this because, again, if you look on the forum, I warned people that this was coming about a year and a half ago. Right. And I said, be careful what you buy because the day… You've got to really want to keep it. And the days of selling it for what you paid for or some people trying to make money out of it. I mean, there's an AFM up for sale that's higher than what I paid brand new for my AFM LE. It's like a mental. And part of the problem is people buying at that price, right? Yeah. You know, if you continue, and this is absolutely the reason. Whilst people, you know, up till this point, because I think there has been a change,
    48:52
    up till the end of last year, for every person that said, I'm out new in box, it was fine. Storm were like, that's cool. I got some new guy who wants to buy a new inbox true I strongly believe that that has changed since Venom came out well this is the worry with John Wick right so it's probably a good way to get back on that absolutely I feel that title it doesn't seem to resonate with the older crowd because they just go John Wick I've never heard of him the non-university boomers yeah let's call them the non-educated boomers University of Brimwood are out on John Wick. I was a bit taken back by some people who said they'd never watched it. I was like, it has been out for ten years and there has been four of them. They surely would have run into it at this point. And it's Keanu Reeves. There's so much content out there, you just miss it. True, there is a lot of films.
    49:47
    There's a movie I watched recently. I can't remember what it was, but I was like, and there was like four of them. I was like, awesome, I've got three more movies to watch. I'm a film fanatic though, I must admit. I watch pretty much anything that comes out but i'm just a bit it always takes me back a little bit when someone says i haven't watched the latest star wars or i haven't seen john wick or or whatever it just feels weird when you just have you been living under a rock how does that work yeah i mean it's like like the um marvel the the ant-man i didn't watch any of them in the cinema every other marvel film i went to but i'd read the ant-man comics now it was like right it just wasn't you know i I can miss that one.
    50:25
    But, you know, there's certain movies where I would absolutely have gone and saw it in the cinema. I mean, a part of the other issues is cinemas are shit. They've got better, actually.
    50:37
    Depends on the experience of where you go. I like the ones that are like, what do they call them, 4D ones, where they add in, like, the rumble chair and, I don't know, air vents underneath the chair and stuff. Yeah, and I think the US have got this right. So Mandy and I saw, shit, what was the movie? June? No it was the new Godzilla one we saw Oh Godzilla minus one No the other one Godzilla vs Kong Yeah it's something to do with Kong I don't know It was very entertaining but in the US they've their cinemas are redesigned so that when you sit down you can't see the row behind you or the row in front of you Oh that's nice You can't see it and it's genius I used to actually back in the day I've still got this somewhere in a garage or something, I built a mobile phone jammer and I used to take it to me I used to love going to the cinema right it was like my big thing I'd go to the cinema and then you get all these gimps on their phones like taking calls like what I had a big rant with someone during a film that I wanted to see really. I was excited about it. And I got home and I'm like, right, I'm building a jammer. So I built one, right? It ran off a 12-volt battery fitting in a bag. And basically it spammed all the... God, have you never got bag checked? It spammed. Well, it just looked like a laptop thing. Right, okay. When I went in, this was glorious, right? So I'd go in, cinema, sit down, and you'd see all these cooks on their phone. and then I'd reach down and turn it on and then they'd all be like you know it knocked out everything, every band Wi-Fi included no one could use it I mean if I did that now I'd probably go to jail then but this was in my early youth let's say but it was glorious, it was one of the best things I ever did I think the thing I like about what they're doing with the cinema at the moment in America at least, I'm not sure if it's so much over here is the novelty kind of popcorn buckets that you're getting. Have you seen those? No. I think they look pretty good. The popcorn should be banned because people crunch.
    52:56
    Most people eat their stuff before even the adverts, if you can finish the space. That is true. I mean, the other thing in the U.S. And actually, there used to be this place, and we kind of digressed a little bit here. We need to get back. We have, as always. There was a place in London, an Orient, where it was like a grown-ups. It was like a bar, a cocktail bar with a cinema, big, comfy, super reclining seats. It was expensive. It was over 21s.
    53:21
    And it was awesome, but it was in a listed building that got acquired. It used to be a shopping centre. It was an amazing place. And then Odeon have kind of copied it a little bit, but they've made it a bit cheaper. But again, they've done a great job. Anyway, so look, John Wick, great movie. First three were amazing. The third one just blew me away. Parabellum or what it was called. The fourth one felt like a bit of a cash-in, not much for it. It's the fourth one where he keeps going up and down those bloody stairs at the end. Oh, God, that was so drawn out. With his gun. Yeah, with his gun. Yeah, look, I get... If there was some reasoning as to why the licensor said take the guns out, I would have just said, do you know what, keep the fiend, and we'll make something else. I'm with you on that, 100%. And I think Stern have got that wrong, actually. I mean, they can say, well, the licensor said no. I was like, well, you should have told them to piss off we're not doing a John Wick pinball machine I think Stern's a big enough brand these days that they could have turned around and said look at our past history nah they wouldn't like with Mandalorian and like you know Avengers of any quest it's tiny mate I know it's tiny but they could show off the old material is what I'm saying and say look this is what we've done with previous licenses they would make more money selling John Wick t-shirts with guns on them by the way this is the hypocrisy of this right If you go to Lionsgate's website, you can buy, from their merch site, you can buy a John Wick t-shirt with a gun on it. Yeah. That's what I don't understand. There's got to be more to it. Can I explain my theory? Go on. I'll shut up. Go on. Let me explain my theory, right? John Wick is associated with a very specific gun manufacturer, right, that I predict would require separate licensing. and here's my take I believe that Lionsgate did say no but not because of the fact they don't want guns in it but because they couldn't say yes because they don't own the license, who owns the license shall I say, it's called Taron Tactical Innovations innovations and John Wick is tightly associated with them and my prediction is that either they didn't want to license it or Stern didn't want to pony up the money whichever um bill of material issue right well it could be or it could be that they didn't want to license it so it could be that the licensor didn't want to say yes and I think that John Wick is so associated with this gun brand that probably someone in Stern's legal department thought, you know what, if we put guns on this, they might come after us.
    56:14
    Interesting. And I can see that, having been involved in this licensing brigade, some of the ridiculous things, and some of, you know, people say, and I've got some sympathy for George and the team at Stern, because, and Jodie, because people say, ah, you know, get another license that doesn't have so many restrictions, right? let me tell you, every freaking license has a restriction in it of some description. It's just either what you're willing to pay for or what you're willing to give up. In my mind, this crossed the line into what you want to give up. Here's a test, right? Hey, Scott, I know JGP are going to launch Matrix in two weeks' time and Keanu Reeves and the whole Matrix pinball has no guns in it. I wouldn't buy it. But you wouldn't do it. No, I wouldn't buy it. It would be the same thing as, I swear to God, JGP, for the love of God, do not release bloody Matrix based on just the fourth film. Because if you do that, it's like Toy Story 4 on an apocalyptic scale. You cannot do it.
    57:16
    Anybody who is a Matrix fan, none of them are going to turn around and say the fourth film was the best film ever. Someone told me there's going to be a fifth one. Oh, yeah, no, that's the Wachowski... I think they're called Wachowski Sisters now, right? Because they did go have an identity change. Oh my God. You have to look that up. correct me wrong there let's not go but the the original directors let's just say when they did the first three films to me that was the beginning middle and the end done yeah then they got pressures to make the four and if you look at the four film though and watch it they even kind of like do a whole black mirror thing on it saying you know oh we we wanted to make a new game and they're talking about a game in it but people rejected the idea that basically taking a piss out of WB, as in like the Warner Brothers saying, I purposely think they made the film so fucking terrible that they were like, you won't make another film. This is a franchise killer because they don't want to make any more films. And they wouldn't be the first to do that. But Luke, again, if I'd said to you six months ago, John Wick's coming, but I have no guns in it, you'd be like, what? If it had leaked out two months ago that there would be no guns in this game, there would be such an uproar, Stern would have had to do something. It's a bit weird though, isn't it? I mean, I don't want to put a whole of America in a stereotype here, considering what we just discussed on the forum, but they are pretty gun-enthusiastic over there. In certain states. In certain states, I should say. Carrie, who's been literally ripped out of them. I love Carrie, we love you. We do. That was too Texan even for me.
    58:56
    And Levy Neyman does an epic, I'll post a link to it, does an epic reaction to Cary Grant's reaction. And all I'm going to say is no bananas were hurt in the making of Levy's video. I didn't realize react videos were still a thing. I thought that was a tease thing. Luke and Pinball, we're behind. Everyone's a thing. Two decades behind, but yeah. So, look, John Wick, first of all, I actually like the look of it. Okay, let's just part the gun thing. I'll tell you what. What's his name? Sorry, Franchi, is it, that's done the artwork? No, I'm just trying to get the guy's name. It's the same guy who did the Mando in Star Wars artwork. Right, right. Anyway, I don't care what anyone says. I love that artwork. I think he's done an amazing job with it. I love the back glass. on the le i really like the le artwork i think the premium is probably a little off not too bad though i still would i still would like it and the pros look really good i think who as they whoever that person is sorry i don't got your name but it's randy it's gonna come on me martinez yes that's it randy martinez so he did more than mando yeah it i loved his mando art so that's probably no surprise there um i really liked it the pro i thought was his best one personally but um the um yeah i really did love the artwork in that i think it was really really good for john wick i was actually really excited to actually even think considering getting john wick and then i noticed the off elements and it kind of put me off i'll reserve judgment maybe it's like venom maybe i can look past the weapon element and in just joining the game for what it is but i have to try it it's certainly not a impulse um purchase for me i love the great thing about it is lovejoy's doing the call-outs i'm so glad that they got that mcshay mcshay yeah lovejoy um everyone knows you're american you have no idea what i had to i do remember lovejoy from when i was a kid kind of i'm i just don't remember what it was about was it like he was like an antique dealer that had these crime yeah hercule perro kind of attitude yeah weird crime things um right and he's a great actor though i'll give him that and yeah having him doing the call-outs stellar move like he seems to really do it quite well as well from what i've heard at least did you notice something by the way the way they've now gone out to youtube content creators to publicize the game yeah i was going to come on to that i mean um let's come back to that but but it is something we definitely need to say something on because it's it's uh yeah it's a challenge so look the um the team i'm just trying to find the guys His name, so Tim Sexton, who is a great friend of mine, runs the New York Pinball Championship. Amazing guy, really smart bloke. And he's doing the kind of coding design.
    62:04
    He's working with... So he's the guy that's going behind the whole idea of every time you kill a henchman and you get multiple kills, it will display on the screen, apparently, some sort of interactive clip. Yeah, and it's also trying to – they've tied into something that gets more difficult and difficult.
    62:20
    Josh Henderson, who's another great kid, pinball player, new to Stern, he's another one of the developers,
    62:28
    which is great to see. He's an amazing player. It's great to see him be part of the design team. And I'm trying to – God, this is going to drive me nuts. I'm trying to remember the game designers name. While you're thinking of that, one thing that's on my head, I think the biggest misstep from them, you know how Deadpool had the balls that went into the hilt of the sword? Yeah. And I thought that was pretty cool. Why didn't they have that with a gun? But that could be the balls going into the chamber. Absolutely. I mean, look, I've heard so many ideas for guns. They've got to be able to implement the double tap thing that he does as well. you remember how he keeps again for the people that aren't gun nuts out there, double tap is when you want to basically secure a kill so you shoot the opponent let's call it, twice I think that would be interesting to see if they can incorporate that because he does it a lot throughout the films he does and it's kind of so Elliot Elsman is the designer well done Elliot, first game He's worked at Stern for a while. He's a mechanical engineer.
    63:41
    It's his first game. I think it looks great. I love the colors. I love the artwork. Randy's done a great job. I have no doubt that the audio is going to be great on this game. The music sounds promising as well. It's a really great game. The car bash toy looks fun.
    64:00
    No, I disagree. Sorry. No. I think it doesn't really look much like a car. It doesn't. I mean, yeah, again, this is another licensing issue. So, you know, so to be clear, to license the car is for companies that you need to talk to. Wow. You need, and let me, someone else. I mean, I think it's one too many bash toys for me. I think I would have liked to have seen something with magnets in there. but when's the last time Sten did a game with magnets in it other than Mando the Yoda bit well there's magnets in Godzilla, there's a magnet that's kind of a bone shot there's none in Venom there's one in Bond with Bond on the wand oh yeah maybe I take it back, there is use of magnets recently I don't know maybe they're worried about flow I don't know. Until I've seen how this game plays, rather than just snippets, I think it's going to be hard for me to say. But I just, I don't know, too many bash toys. I think I would have liked to have seen, you know, when the gun cache lifted up? Yeah. And it goes into effectively a, I think it's just a kick out, isn't it?
    65:18
    Yes. That's what it looked like to me. So I think, for me, there should have been a subway system in this game. I don't know. I'm old school like that. I love subway systems.
    65:28
    Indeed. So if you want to have the proper car, you have to talk to Kuda. You have to talk to Charger, Mustang, and Wick to get four licenses to do the car. And then it's actually got special wheels on it. I think they're made by another manufacturer, Magnum 500 wheels. So you kind of, you know, so Mustang, Ford. I mean, it's just so many. The Charger is not made by Ford. The car's been modded. But one thing I'll chuckle at is there's one of those bobblehead type John Wick things that you can buy off the John Wick merch site. And it's got a gun.
    66:15
    So there's more to this gun story. There's got to be, right? I don't know. I just think there could have been like, you know when they did the whole pistols at the end of, I don't know, I'm giving spoilers for people that don't know, right, so I'm just going to shut up, but there's a part where there's a duel and it's done with pistols. There's so many options where you could have put something in there and done one license from one gun company. Just something. I don't know. I'm a bit hung up on it. Maybe it's just because I think the game is, the film's all about guns and it just feels a bit weird. There's also no pencils in it. That's weird, right, but though... And also the dog, the dog on the back, so the dog's on the back glass of the LE. Yeah. And it's alive.
    67:01
    Oh, really? I didn't notice that. Okay. That's a bit strange. The dogs are also... No, wait, but there was a dog. He got another dog in the third film, right? Because this is the fourth one. Yeah.
    67:13
    I thought the first one his dog gets killed That what it all about Yeah that what sets them off isn it That is but he doesn get nothing off Yeah Yeah so that what kind of brings them back to be a... takes them back into the badlands of the John Wick underworld. The disc thing they did was good, because apparently they got the prop from the film and did a kind of one-to-one replica of it. That was pretty nice. Awesome. So, Luke, let's go... So, Luke, I think it's a two-flipper finally out. Yeah. I think it's going to be fun. I know Tim Sexton can put great code together. He's a good player. He was third place in Indus, the World Championship in January. He knows what he's doing with pinball. I'm looking forward to how that develops. But the thing you mentioned there was the explosion of pinball YouTubers that we experienced. Yes, content creators are effectively promoting this game like no tomorrow at the moment. And I have to say I think that's backfired you think? so I've watched four content creators the best guy was Kong Kong's R Us but none of these people know anything about pinball true let me tell you how my reaction to that is Stern you invite a bunch of folks that know nothing about pinball to the hobby that I am passionate about and I'm sitting with a quarter of a million pounds worth of pinball machines around me, are you freaking kidding me?
    68:48
    Are you freaking kidding me, right? That is my... I was more angry about that, and not angry, but more irritated about that than I was about the fact there was no guns in the game. Actually, as you said, I didn't notice there was no guns in the game until someone pointed out to me because I thought they are... I think the reason why they choose people like content creators, though, is that they're quite happy to play the message. they are let me tell you the other thing I'll say is I got a video of John Wick almost six days or five days before the game was announced and actually normally I would have just posted that no I wouldn't have but unless it was JGP everyone will remember the Pirates of the Caribbean that I leaked on Pinsider went down like a red balloon.
    69:44
    It's still on Pinsider. You won't even have a look. But the thing that kind of frustrated me a little bit is they basically had three events. One in LA, one in the South, and one in, I think, in Chicago. They invited these content creators and they spent all day playing the game and giving their input.
    70:10
    And, you know, a title like John Wick is going to attract content creators. But, you know, my take on it was you missed entirely Stern.
    70:21
    The fact that these guys know nothing about pinball, I get that you're trying to bring more people into it. But the worst thing that you can do to bring people in, It'd be like having a random Joe off the street who's never driven before host Top Gear, right? It just does not work. Maybe I haven't looked into it too much, but Retro Ralph is probably the only one that I would say that's been fairly new to the pinball scene that does quite a good job on content creation. He did a whole thing on Venom. He did a pretty damn good job on explaining the different tiers, as in like pro, premium, LE, what benefits you could have. And I think his editing or his editor is very good.
    71:09
    Yeah, don't get me wrong. Some of these content creators are great content creators, right? But, you know, the reason that I'll take one of the biggest… got hung up on is the fact what's missing while those people are going to be like so the script says I say this and I need to cover these points it also comes up with paid all those paid promotion which immediately says fucking what no one then as soon as you put that on it's like this guy's a shill right although it's still helpful from an information seeking point of view but what you don't listen when I see that Yeah, you don't listen to their opinion. Exactly. Their opinion becomes zero at that point, right? I believe Stern needs to include some sensible pinball content creators, and they're out there. Joel from Triple Drain, Mike Castleman.
    72:13
    There's a bunch of people out there. Look, have the content creators and have a couple of pinball folks, right? Hell, I'd even do it, right? not that anyone would listen to a word I've got to say but look there's nothing more and I remember seeing there's a guy who I love gadgets right there's a company that's made this new line of transformer robots that are out of this world and they're not cheap right voice activated that change voice activate yeah have you seen it you might have seen it of course there's a video of a content creator with one of these robots right that when i saw this video i instantly went and bought it right because this guy is passionate about transformers and the whole kind of robot culture collectibles yeah he saw this he's literally laughing and and the love that's in this guy's face for this toy that he's playing with is so genuine versus some bozo that they've just found, they've googled who does retro stuff or virtual pinball and has got more than 5,000 followers. Oh, you'll do it. Come on in. Play the game. Not have a clue. Have a weird kind of bizarre non-conversation with Zach. We love you, Zach. It just didn't work at all in my view. and I think that there is a bunch of fun things going on I think the problem is that they have an audience but that audience isn't built upon by pinball, it's built upon by something else, i.e. collectibles some sort of man cave elements and they're thinking well that's also man cave elements so this should fit in nicely with that demographic it goes back to what you were saying about Mike with Blues Brothers just don't understand your demographic I mean fair play to Kong, I kind of looked at Mori's website. You know, he's been to a few league meets. He's not the first pinball machine he's had. Sure. I've seen him on a couple of videos here and there. And, you know, he seemed like a nice enough bloke. But have him. No issue. But don't exclude the rest of the community, Stern. I'm not saying you get Kaneda on. Hell no.
    74:35
    He's a clown. But, you know, get someone who knows what they're doing. there's the folks in Nudge magazine there's Jason Knapp there's a bunch of people out there that have got a wider breadth than you realise and you can leverage them better and not irritate the hell out of me because what the hell what is this I think at the end of the day let's face it would it have affected your purchasing choice anyway you're going to buy an LE no matter what I bought two I've ordered two actually just as we finish I'm trying to work on something look we're all pissed off with the price part of the issue we got in the UK is the current way that games get to us particularly sound games in fact sound games is the really biggest issue and I've been trying to buy an LE in the US of John Wick interesting and I was going to import it, I've worked out how to change it it's three lines of code to change the thing from disclaimer disclaimer, Neil does not support the idea of grey imports this is all a joke let me tell you, I don't Pulp Fiction I imported I would not recommend anyone does that and actually for that game I think I saved like 200 bucks if you want a Pulp Fiction, phone Philip in Bowhaven and order one, best way to get one But when you do the math, there's about a £4,000 difference on an LE, right? And it's not that, look, for me, I'm lucky. I can afford to buy LEs, right? Sure. But not everyone can. And it actually depresses me to see some of my great pinball friends priced out of the market. And these are people that, because of the way they treated me, I got more and more into pinball. these people are now sitting on the sidelines thinking, well, this is my hobby that I'm passionate about and it's got so expensive I feel like I'm placed out of it. And of course, look, that's not really true because this game... Was it you that told me that Stern said they were aware of this issue though and were working on it? Well, no. Well, I think so, but I don't actually think they are working on it. So what the plan was is I'm going to buy an LE, I'm going to import it, I'm going to pay all the taxes and all the costs, and then I'm literally just going to YouTube it let people make their own mind up about the situation here in the UK, right? Anyway, because of that, I've been speaking to a lot of dealers.
    77:15
    Actually, none of them will sell me again because I'm frank about it. I said, look, I'm going to import this to the UK. I'm going to do a YouTube on it because, frankly, I feel that our situation is ridiculous. And I do that because I want to be honest and transparent about it. Also, I don't want to get the US dealers in trouble. A lot of them I see in my travels, when I'm at shows, when I'm at events and tournaments. So I don't want to get them in trouble. Anyway, but what I can tell you, right, is John Wick had the worst launch day of any Stern game. Including Venom? Including Venom. Wow. Right? And that was, I've been speaking to five dealers I spoke to across the US and I'm not going to name them for obvious reasons but they are in terms of demand and it's kind of weird it's like some dealers I think have to take games, some dealers have got an option, I think it depends on their relationship I suppose and my belief was that all dealers had to take games whether they wanted them or not but that isn't the case and I always thought that was weird but I did see that from someone who was a prospective Stern dealer a couple of years ago. Anyway, whatever. It doesn't really matter.
    78:43
    I was speaking to a couple of them and this goes back to my earlier point. There is no doubt that the price of games is now damaging the industry badly. Very badly.
    78:58
    The COVID years, they were great. It was a great bubble. Well, this is the biggest change, isn't it? I don't know about you, but I definitely have less money at the end of each month. 100%. It's not even me thinking anymore. It's like I genuinely go, I'm down a grand. When the next crazy government gets elected, we're all going to be even more poorer, mate. Let me tell you, right?
    79:22
    Here's the stark reality, right? Games are too expensive. I'm nervous that the costs to the pinball manufacturers are actually really at least except for the UK let's park the UK for a moment because I believe that's a special case but in the US I don't think they've got much movement I think they've got a little bit in LEs and premiums but not a huge amount I'm not sure they've got massive movement in pros because look if the business isn't making 30 to 5 35% to 40% margin you just invest in something else right and that's my fear but there is no doubt so Rush Led Zeppelin, Venom John Wick and you know games of that almost James Bond, James Bond was going to have his bad moment but it recovered but you know Jaws best ever selling game according to all five dealers Do you know what though? In a way it makes me sad that that's the case because it just provides fuel to Stern to say there's still a demand for a product at this price range There is, but there's not a demand for five of them So if you're launching and I know people they've limited themselves to one new game a year when you used to buy three because of the price and they still want to be in on the games that they want to have I mean look we're all kind of lucky in that we can you know we've got a bit of disposable income to spend here but I am my message to the industry is you need to look at this urgently and you need to figure out how do you take the price down and people say well actually if they just put more in the game that would be great nah it's bollocks that won't make any difference right they've got to reduce the price here in the UK they've got to reduce it aggressively as you rightly point out you know Sega games have dropped dramatically it's because they can't be moved and one second sure
    81:49
    your audio is gone yes sorry yes sorry that was the boss lady telling me my dinner's ready so we got a few minutes we are at dinner time so look the um they have got to reduce the price they've got to figure out how to do it look the cfo is going to have a heart attack the sales guys are going to be jumping for joy the dev teams are going to be nervous that they don't get enough money for bomb right? Everyone's going to have to take a slice of the pain and you know maybe toppers get more expensive, fine right?
    82:32
    Doesn't seem to be a ceiling on those let's face it but look all pinball manufacturers I look at the price of some CGC games they're still much lower than others I look at the price of American pinball they're not as low but they used to be lower, there is opportunity to reduce this price without affecting the quality of the game and JGP, Stern you guys are looking to make a return on your overall investment in owning these companies, you're going to fool nobody the way the market is now, so if a lot of rumours that Stern's up for sale don't know if that's true but no one's going to be fooled by you know effectively manufacturing fake demand um and you you really need to do something um i didn't speak to any distributor in the us and i know the uk resellers feel pretty pretty hacked off i didn't speak to any of these five organizations that i spoke to where they were happy and it wasn't just a stern issue it was a generic industry issue um and you know something has got to give and at the moment the tank's running on empty.
    83:50
    So bear that in mind. At the same point... Damn Neil, that was a real downer. Thanks for that. Well, I wasn't trying to be down. I'm passionate about this. I think, look, that all aside, I feel... People say, Neil, you're so jaded. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not. I don't put up with mediocrity. If something's crap, I'm calling it out. Look, that all said, if there was a price correction, the right title comes out we could still see pinball going on for a decade strong yeah it's just there needs to be some as you say just some thought about how we can market these games and if they need to make money elsewhere as you say by putting in other accessories like expression lighting like toppers like shooter rods do it make your money elsewhere make margin rich elements that you feel will sell and make your money back that way but the base unit of the device I'll stick to this, that magic number was 10 grand, they shouldn't have gone above it yeah, for L.E.'s I completely agree I don't see them coming down that much but if it got closer no they won't, not because of inflation and all that but anywhere close to it I think is the right attitude and Luke I don't think, this is the thing people even with that right people are still going to lose money on games I've been in this hobby since 2016 and you buy a new game, you sell it, you typically lose money on it. So please, there's some people here who've lived through the COVID bubble who think you make money when you sell games. That is not the normal thing. So if you buy, say, Stern, reduce the price to 10 grand, you're probably going to sell an LE for nine after that, right? And go into it eyes wide open, that is the case. My advice would be to anybody looking to buy an LE, damn well make sure that you want to keep it because if you sell it within a couple of months you better be prepared to take a big loss because the market just won't buy it on pros though there's three Godzilla pros up for sale all packing the price come down that's like the new Addams Family Godzilla you know I don't like that game anyway like Godzilla but for me it's a dime a dozen they're everywhere you can't be charging close to seven grand for a used pro. I'm sorry. It shouldn't even be close to six in my book, but there we go. Indeed. Look, conscious of time, we've been yakking for about an hour and 20 minutes. Yeah, not bad for us. No, not bad. Look, a big final shout out for Pinfest, especially those that want to bring games. The list of game bringers isn't where it normally is. Please, if you can bring a game, please bring it. I'm bringing a few extras I'm bringing Pulp Fiction, I'm bringing Bond 60th and I'm bringing a Jaws Premium so if you can bring games, please bring games especially classics and do all you can to help because it's a great weekend and if rooms have full of pins actually I probably wouldn't care because I spend more time talking to people than playing pinball. But, you know, we want to have a good event. Yeah, you definitely need enough games on there to stop the queues. Yeah, 100%. And, you know, last year was phenomenal. The other thing, UK Open tickets go on sale 1st of July.
    87:22
    Very nice. And with that, all that remains for me to say is watch out. Whenever you get your photo taken and you've got a gun in your hand, the magic might disappear.
    87:37
    A special mention to Dangerous Dave. Yeah, you know what, Dangerous Dave, he's a connoisseur of guns, I've heard. So, like, look, if they need any gun expertise, go see Dave. If they need phone Dave, he will be there in a jiffy. Actually, a couple of shout-outs. One shout-out to Dave Stumbler. His new JAWS mod looks absolutely amazing. True. I also want to shout-out to these guys, Volcano Pinball. They do these really cool playfield protectors for your shooter thing. They're kind of made of this flimsy stuff.
    88:14
    I'm trying to get stuff out of the Protector guy. His name's going to be on my head. He's so backed up.
    88:22
    Cliffy. I love Cliffy. He's a brilliant guy. He works on his own and he's a bit behind so a couple of shout outs to them and shout out to Pinball Life and Marco for sending tons of stuff to me in Florida before I flew home and a big thanks to Phil at Pinball Heaven for sorting out some stuff for us for the UK Open Scott anyone you want to plug? Oh actually I do have one thing which is I did get Holly on our Rick roll did she tell you? Did she click one of your silly links about John Wick? Yeah, I see. Here's a picture of John Wick that linked to YouTube with Rick Astley playing Never Gonna Give You Up. Yeah, I know that. And her reply was, you bitch.
    89:17
    I love it. And on that bombshell, let's say goodbye. We'll be back soon. Great to see you folks. If you want us to talk about anything, you want to hear about anything, you want to rant, let us know, and we'll do our best to rant about the thing that annoys you most. Indeed. Thanks, everybody. Take care all. Bye-bye. And watch out for the guns.
    89:44
    How do I stop this?