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Episode 137 – Rooting Atomic Zombies

Slam Tilt Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Nov 28, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Deep Root's Steve Bowden reveals Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland prototype details and teases upcoming launch.

Summary

Steve Bowden from Deep Root Pinball discusses the Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland prototype, which was showcased at a recent expo in Houston. The conversation covers playfield mechanics, rule design philosophy, display technology choices, and playtesting findings. Deep Root plans a major launch event on March 25th in San Antonio before the Texas Pinball Festival.

Key Claims

  • Steve Bowden has been working on Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland since joining Deep Root in September (of the previous year)

    high confidence · Steve Bowden directly states he started last year in September and has been contributing to rules since then

  • The game features an ultra-wide display similar to Chicago Gaming's reissues, different from Stern and Jersey Jack's standard displays

    high confidence · Hosts and Steve Bowden discuss the display technology choice; Steve confirms it's being used well but declines to explain the decision rationale

  • Average ball time in the game during Houston playtesting was around 2-3 minutes, with occasional 15-minute games when skilled players engaged or started multiball

    high confidence · Steve Bowden provides direct feedback from Houston expo playtesting

  • The Xenon tube can hold up to three balls for multiball, and having three loaded provides significantly higher scoring potential than one

    high confidence · Steve Bowden explains the Xenon tube mechanic and its strategic value in playtesting

  • The playfield includes ticket currency mechanics where players earn tickets and spend them to start modes, with leftover tickets contributing to bonus

    high confidence · Steve Bowden describes ticket system as a give-and-take mechanic similar to redemption tickets

  • Deep Root's playfield material can withstand hammer strikes without damage, contrasting with Mirko playfields that crater easily

    medium confidence · Ron Hallett references a Robert Mueller quote about playfield durability comparison; Steve Bowden confirms he's personally tested this with a hammer

  • Deep Root is working on at least 10 other games that cannot yet be revealed

    medium confidence · Steve Bowden states 'You haven't seen the other 10 games we're working on, Ron, that I can't reveal at all' and mentions rule sets he cannot discuss

  • The game includes magnet mechanics at four locations: magnet save (lower right), Ferris Wheel magnet (back), and pop-upper magnets (top left and right)

Notable Quotes

  • “This might be the most John Papadiuk that John Papadiuk could John Papadiuk.”

    Ron Hallett @ early in conversation — Playful commentary on the game's distinctive design philosophy reflecting designer John Papaduke's signature style

  • “Deep Root will humble the competition by being the go-to manufacturer for value.”

    Robert Mueller (quoted by Ron Hallett from This Week in Pinball article) @ late in conversation — Key statement of Deep Root's market positioning and competitive strategy regarding pricing and value proposition

  • “It felt really good to look in there, look into the expo hall and see the game amongst other games... just having it out in the hall, and it felt really good to share that moment.”

    Steve Bowden @ near end of interview — Emotional response to seeing the prototype in public; reflects personal investment in the project

  • “You haven't seen the other 10 games we're working on, Ron, that I can't reveal at all.”

    Steve Bowden @ late in conversation — Hints at Deep Root's significant development pipeline and manufacturing ambitions

  • “It's only the first step. Believe me, it's only the first step.”

    Steve Bowden @ near end of interview — Suggests the Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland launch is part of a larger Deep Root strategy

  • “This looks like if Williams stayed in business and was still making games, this is what it would look like.”

    Bruce Nightingale @ mid-conversation — Characterizes Deep Root's design philosophy as a continuation of 1990s Williams aesthetic

  • “I'm not going to say anything. I'm going to watch him do it. And he did it. And he had the high score.”

    Steve Bowden (describing Teolis' play) @ mid-conversation about ramp mechanics — Illustrates how playfield design reveals strategic depth to skilled players during playtesting

Entities

Retro Atomic Zombie AdventurelandgameSteve BowdenpersonDeep Root PinballcompanyJohn PapadukepersonRobert MuellerpersonRon HallettpersonBruce NightingalepersonAshley Ludwigperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Deep Root Pinball announces major launch event for Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland on March 25th at Deep Root Auditorium in San Antonio, scheduled immediately before Texas Pinball Festival with media passes, travel vouchers, and VIP packages to be announced

    high · Steve Bowden: 'We'll launch in the Deep Root Auditorium on Wednesday, March 25th at 8:55 a.m.' Official schedule of events mentioned with media passes and travel logistics planned

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland deliberately emulates 1990s Williams design philosophy in both playfield layout and display technology choices, positioning Deep Root as a spiritual successor to classic pinball era

    high · Bruce: 'This looks like if Williams stayed in business and was still making games, this is what it would look like.' Multiple design elements (font choices, display style, ramp complexity) compared to classic Williams games

  • ?

    playtesting_signal: Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland prototype generated sustained high player interest at Houston expo with continuous 5-6 person lines throughout two days of operation; collected 20+ hours of gameplay data

    high · Steve Bowden: 'lines five, six deep constantly all day' and later 'still 5 or 6 deep' across multiple check-ins; '20-some odd hours of play' data collection mentioned

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Game design reveals strategic depth as skilled players discover unintended play patterns (one-way gate bounce technique discovered by Teolis) that become high-scoring strategies, indicating complex playfield interactions

    high · Steve Bowden describes Teolis discovering bounce-off technique for hidden targets: 'I'm not going to say anything. I'm going to watch him do it. And he did it. And he had the high score.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.291

0:00
As soon as we women have a little privacy, we can start the movie. Hey, how's it going? This film is for girls only, boys. Eh, that's okay, ma'am. It's nothing we haven't seen. Yeah, um, besides, Mr. Van Driesen said we could see it. He said it would be, um, good for us to learn, um, you know, more about chicks and their boobs and stuff. Oh, really? Well, I think I'll go and ask him if that's true.
0:34
So, uh, any of you chicks want to make out during the movie? Coming to you from beautiful upstate New York, this is the Slam Tilt Podcast, a show about all things pinball. I'm your host, Ron Hallett, here with my co-host, Bruce Nightingale. Who? Yeah, it's you, Bruce. What? Yeah, and this is episode 137. We're back, everybody. Hello. Yes. It wasn't my fault this time. It's always your fault. But we're not alone, Bruce. We're not. We have someone today. Who do we have, Ron? We have Deep Roots' own Steve Bowden. Hello, guys. It's me. Hello. welcome to the show release any new games lately uh showing prototypes of them not necessarily released any but yeah hear that folks prototype it's just it's a prototype remember when you don't like the artwork of the cabinet it's prototype cabinet right it's not final artwork it's a prototype so bruce have you seen retro atomic zombie adventure land i have and i've actually talked to somebody who's played it. Oh, my. Besides Steve, of course, now. Right. Yes. Ashley. Ashley played it. Ashley was down there, and she actually won the women's tournament down there. Ashley Ludwig, a former guest of ours? Yep. Congrats to Ashley. Yep. She liked it. She liked it a lot. She said the shots were really satisfying.
2:18
Let me bring it up here, because this one's a toughie. I'm trying to follow where some of the ramps go, and it's very hard. It's very Papa Duke. Yes, this is extremely Papa Duke. This might be the most Papa Duke that Papa Duke could Papa Duke. So what can you tell us about Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland? Steve, what's the story? There's got to be a story behind this crazy game. Well, yeah, there is a story that will unfold as you get deeper into the game, sure, but not much of it was shown at Houston. I mean, we didn't have much in there to play through, But, you know, we were able to get a couple of modes and start the multiball and shoot the crazy ramp and kill a few zombies. And we got a lot of data and analysis from those two days of 20 some odd hours of play. And we're going over it to see what we need to do. So are the zombies, did they come with the aliens or did they come to life because of the aliens? I think if I recall correctly, the zombies were there, and then Ned landed, and then he caused the zombies to awaken. So who's Ned? Ned is the big bad. He's the designated big bad guy. So you have to defeat him because reasons. And so Angela is the Martian princess who is supposed to defeat him because of other reasons. So, yeah. So the rest of the story you'll find out as this game gets more fleshed out and you get the whole package. So basically, from what I've read so far, they landed on an amusement park and released some kind of gas. Right. And the amusement park just happened to be on burial ground, of course. Of course, because of course it is. Where else would it be? And we have zombies. And I assume this dude in the center of the play field here pointing at me menacingly is Ned. Yeah, he's the bad guy. You have to beat him. He's where you get your jackpots from. Steve, over the two days, how did the system hold up? If you can tell me anything about that, the reliability. I heard good things and bad things, of course. I heard the flippers were actually strong at a show, which is surprising. But anything else you can tell us from your data? Not explicitly I mean I can tell you what happened there But I know that Things that happened were expected to happen So we kind of analyzed things that did happen So we know things that We know things that were going to happen And so they did And so we reset games And put them back in play And so once those were Looked at As soon as we got the games back We started working on those things So those who were there knew what happened and some of the good things and the bad things that we kind of knew would happen because it's the prototype. How long have you been on this game? I guess since I got hired. Okay. So that would be a year, I mean, officially, right? Because I started last year in September. Yeah. So it would be since then. Okay. So as far as rules and all that, yeah. So I've been contributing since then. Yeah, and this is definitely a J-pop game. When I saw it, I was like, oh, okay. Okay, this is a gift. Okay, thank you for this gift, J-Pop, and let's see what I can do with it. Are the rules like a group effort? Is it like a J-Pop vision type thing that you're trying to bring to life? How does that all come about? Because a lot of the design, obviously, he has specific inserts and things in the play field. There's obvious ideas he had on how this should go. And I'm taking what the play field gives me. And we have the story that's been written by Quinn Johnson. And so I'm taking that and also what the play field gives me and formulating a rule set that I can use with this because, you know, the play field was there. So I'm just looking at it and saying, okay, what can I do with this that would be fun? And then if it isn't fun, let's not do that and try something better.

high confidence · Steve Bowden details all magnet locations and their strategic uses during gameplay

  • The long ramp has three possible outcomes: make it powerfully (goes down left), make it normally (goes down right), or miss and bounce off one-way gate

    high confidence · Steve Bowden explains ramp mechanics and notes that skilled players like Teolis discovered using the one-way gate bounce strategically

    • Quinn Johnson
    person
    Teolisperson
    Nikki DeLasagnaperson
    Josh Sharpperson
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Deep Root Auditoriumvenue
    Houston expoevent
    Williamscompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Chicago Gamingcompany
    Slam Tilt Podcastorganization
    ?

    manufacturing_signal: Deep Root claims significant playfield durability advancement using wood-based material that withstands hammer strikes without damage, contrasting sharply with competitor Mirko playfields that crater under same testing

    medium · Ron Hallett quotes Robert Mueller's hammer test comparison; Steve Bowden confirms personal testing: 'I have held a hammer in my hand and hit a playfield, and there has not been a dent in it'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Game features four distinct magnet save locations (lower right, Ferris Wheel, top left pop-upper, top right pop-upper) with context-dependent behavior, indicating sophisticated magnetic toy design

    high · Steve Bowden maps all magnet locations and explains strategic deployment: 'those magnets will use to catch the ball and drop it into the Ferris Wheel or bumper area depending on the situation'

  • $

    market_signal: Deep Root explicitly positioning itself as value-focused manufacturer intending to 'humble the competition' through pricing strategy, signaling aggressive market entry to disrupt established manufacturer pricing models

    high · Robert Mueller quote (cited from This Week in Pinball): 'Deep Root will humble the competition by being the go-to manufacturer for value'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Bowden joined Deep Root in September as rules designer; company claims to be developing 10+ additional games beyond Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, indicating significant team expansion and production pipeline

    high · Steve Bowden: 'I started last year in September' and later 'You haven't seen the other 10 games we're working on, Ron, that I can't reveal at all'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Deep Root chose ultra-wide display format (similar to Chicago Gaming reissues) rather than large Jersey Jack or standard Stern displays, citing ease of information management and aesthetic continuity with 1990s design

    medium · Steve Bowden declines to explain decision rationale but confirms it's 'used well' and 'used really impressively'; Bruce notes it's 'not as distracting' as Jersey Jack's sensory overload approach

  • ?

    community_signal: Steve Bowden's personal satisfaction emphasizes pinball community as tight-knit family unit; brought mother, brother, and podcast partner to see prototype, treating launch as shared family milestone

    high · Steve Bowden: 'My mother and my brother flew down from Jersey to see it and to share the moment with them was awesome... just had a little bit of pinball family. It felt really great'

    • 6:30
    I'm looking at the play field now. And I will say, looking at it, the greenish tint to it. And, Bruce, I don't know if you saw this. It had a very Big Bang Bar feel to me. Oh, yes, totally. Totally. I totally agree with that. The green, the kind of spacey type artwork and the, what is it, the doozy? The dizzy doozy. The dizzy doozy font is literally, it looks like Circus Voltaire font, almost verbatim. Right, the slightly wacky, concentric, slightly electric font. Yeah. Yeah, I can agree with that. Yeah. Not quite that. Not quite matching that, but now that I'm trying to envision Circus Voltaire, I can see that. But we have our zombie. We have our zombie. We have the atomic shop.
    7:19
    We have the old swinging target. The bash swinging target. Right, way in the back. Way in the back. And we have this thing next to the atomic shop, which I'm trying to figure out what the heck this thing is. Is it like a flap? Where is it? To the left or the right? To the left of the atomic shop. Oh, that's a ramp. That's a really short ramp that hits a stand-up that's over it. Really? Just looking at it. Yeah, it's a stand-up that's elevated, so that's going to be pretty important for scoring. Oh, okay. I can see it more now. Yeah, the Dizzy Doozy's sort of blocking it like a bodyguard, but you can spin him out of the way, and then the path will be relatively open to that. Still a hard shot, yes, but once you move the bodyguard out of the way, then you can get past it and get to that. and there will be rules attached to that target which will help you with scoring it's got the Ferris wheel the cyclone Ferris wheel, it's back there respect and it has another like motorized roto target thing on the left side are they like ducks or something? yeah, it's rotating ducks, yep it's like you have your duck gallery where the ducks sort of show up and then they go down and they come up and they come down So it's like a circle that rotates Like a rotating disc that's over there spinning So if you shoot that You shoot that over there and it's you hitting a duck And you might not hit the duck Because when you shoot a duck In a carnival you might not hit it So you do have to hit it in a certain spot To get it So it's a big target To hit that duck area That's why it's over there That's always spinning to get a duck And so it's going to be important to get ducks Especially in the early game and they will get a little more important as you advance in a later game. But, yeah, that's what's hiding over there. And, I mean, most people miss what's on the far right. Well, I see two spinners, so that makes me happy. That's there. Yeah, there are two spinners. There's one on each side. But even further to the right, on the lower right, you see three Xs, right? You see those? Yes, I see the three Xs. To the right of those underneath the flat are three drop targets. Okay, yeah, because you can't see. see them too well in the one picture. Okay. Right. And so those get missed a lot. And so that is the bowling alley. So you use that to get your strikes and spares for bowling. So that's another part of the adventure land that you need to explore.
    9:43
    The other thing that really comes out to me is that, like, all the inserts are, like, the way the designs seem to be now is you just use these multicolored inserts and you just flash different colors. and there's like literally no text on most of them to see one that is like this we're pretty much it's all text it's it's like an older school it's like an older school game it's more like a 90s game now that still doesn't preclude using multiple colors of course but i mean most of but there's text on there so you it's kind of clear to see what it's aiming to do even though that one arrow might do multiple things on that specific shot it's like just for example if you have um like there's a underneath the word atomic there's a little atom looking there's an arrow with an atom in it like a drawing of an atom that arrow will indicate certain awards but it still has to do with the atomic feature so it would still have to do with that so but it but i might color it different colors depending on what i need for that feature that and that that was a feature that wasn't in houston by the way we were just spelling atomic and that was it so So once you spill the atomic, something will happen, and you will have to perform in order to earn the thing. The skill shot looks very unique. Well, the opening plunge, yes. Yeah, it looks like, and I've seen some of the footage. It literally comes out, and it looks like it rolls along the plastic into play. Right, so you learn really quickly, once you hard plunge and it kisses off the left slingshot and you die, you learn really quickly, don't do that. Soft plunge, so then it goes to the left flipper.
    11:21
    And the one ramp looks like it actually returns to right in front of the slingshot. It can. It might kiss off it. It usually doesn't. So what I've been able to do through testing is shoot the ramp, have it come down to left, and on the fly, shoot the ramp again, have it come down to left, and then on the fly, shoot the left. Shoot the ramp again, like a home run shot. It's risky, but since it's sort of in the air and heading toward the flipper, it works. And, yeah, it is risky. So if you brick it, those drop targets are there to handle your business. But, yeah, especially when you activate the ride mode, which we did have in Houston, which if you complete ride, you see the inserts on the lower, the in-lane, out-lane, the ride mode there? If you complete ride, then it enhances the coaster. So that's when you're really going to want to shoot that on the fly and be risky and hopefully in a combo too because points is points. hey can you explain the kickback i've been reading that it does something a little bit different oh when it comes back yeah when it kick when it kicks up it actually kicks up does this like 180 reverse and then slides down this slide i guess it's like a snake s slide and then comes onto the play field and so you have to be ready when it comes on because it's not like it's a guaranteed safe drop it doesn't drop straight down the middle but it's going to drop in a way where you're going have to react to it so you're gonna have to either bounce it off or maybe just fling it away or drop catch it or something but it comes out from the kickback goes up flips over and then goes down the s and then comes out comes out from left to the right so it'll most likely come out toward the right flipper usually and so you have to make a move it's actually nice seeing a kickback that does a little something different right it's been a while it's been a while time it gives you time to think about okay here it comes you know as i've got to be ready for it's not like it kicks out and goes straight to it it kicks out and gives you that time when it goes down that s curve for you to be ready to react now the most i would say eye-catching thing in this play field is is at least for me is this you longously just long ramp that looks like oh my god how is this going to make it up well it did well i hear it it's it's designed to do different things depending on whether it makes it up or whether it doesn't make it up. Right. What can you tell us about that? That is true. Well, okay. Well, if you make the ramp, right, there's two ways that it can come down. So if you make the ramp, especially powerfully, it will go up past the diversion point and go down the left.
    13:58
    If you make it normally, I guess I can say, it will come down the right. And then if you don't make it, if you make it past the one-way gate, it will bounce back off the one-way gate and back into play. and so people started to learn this and they started to use the one-way gate to get the ball into the into the snack shop targets which you can't hit directly which you can hardly see on from the picture maybe but it's you see next to zombie on the right there's three stand-up targets with 3x 6x and 9x on them i see those yeah you too so if you if you don't make it up the ramp and you can bounce it off the one-way gate, and if you nudge it right, if I can figure out which way you need to nudge it, it will probably kiss off of those targets and send you on your way to higher scores, possibly. Now, if you make the ramp, you can also get higher scores, depending on the rule, which I won't get into, but I'll just say that, leave that there for you. But those targets there are very important, and certain players there learned this, especially like Teolis he learned this and he did the thing as I had said it for those two days and when I saw him start to do the thing and I was like okay I'm not going to say anything I'm going to watch him do it and he did it and he had the high score so I was like okay you did it you did it right so it's basically like yeah you can make the ramp but if you miss the ramp it's not necessarily bad could be bad but it's not necessarily bad it actually could be great depending on if it lands into those targets So pay attention And we have the rollovers Another Papa Duke feature Some cash and prizes Hiding in there as well Cash and prizes, okay Lots of awards in there Who knows what you might find From bonus X to special Might show up, who knows And this is a Papa Duke game So I assume there's magnets in this thing Even if I can't see them Yeah, because there's the magnet save, right? You see that one that's in the lower right. That's there. But then up in the very back of the game, there's the Ferris wheel magnet. And then there's also the pop-upper magnet. There's one on the left and one on the right, on the top left and the top right. so those magnets will use to catch the ball and drop it into the ferris wheel or catch the ball and drop it into the bumper area depending on the situation so certain situations where the ball will be caught so you can go in the bumper area because you'll you'll need to do that and the same for the ferris wheel when the ferris wheel comes on your ferris wheel comes on then that magnet will be ready to get it and put it in the ferris wheel yeah you okay bruce i got a throw in my i'm not getting i'm getting sick unfortunately oh no no no luckily the zombies again exactly you're so far away though guys i thought i was muted and i looked like oh crap edit it out no uh oh and the magnus save button is actually next to the flipper button oh i know what a novel idea it's still below the flipper button though but still on that same side i don't care It's not in the old Black Knight position It's below it But you can still use it To either grab it Or flick it old school Like Jungle Lord To get it back It's functional That's up to you how you use it We'll see some people Flick it back on Or maybe see some people hold it Just to drop it down into the lane We'll see We shall see. The other interesting thing I noticed is the display, which is different than what Stern and Jersey Jack are using as far as. Jersey Jack obviously has the huge display. Stern has the smaller display. This is more reminiscent of actually what Chicago Gaming is doing with the reissues where they're using the ultra-wide display. so maybe you can tell us like what was the reasoning behind like this is what we want to go with i can't tell you much about that i can just tell you this is what i saw when i got there so i can't i can't tell you any any reason for that i just know it's used well so it'll be nice to put things where you know where to look for them and transitions will be nice to see once you get those in there and uh you know i mean it's used really impressively i like looking at it But as far as the decision process of why it was like that, as opposed to like a huge Jersey Jack screen or, you know, more squared screen or like a TNA or something like that. That's that's the screen. So that's what you say. I can't help you with that. I like the screen because I was I was looking at some of the video footage from Houston and it looks like they were using like you're using the screen. But the left and right edges, you're actually having like graphics on it. Right. There's information there, but then you can transition to a full screen for certain things, and then it will go back out. What do you think of it, Bruce? I liked it a lot. I actually thought it was not as distracting. That's the nice thing about it. Even with Batman and all the newer games, Jersey Jack, you look up, it's almost like Century Overload with Wizard of Oz and with Hobbit. You're like, holy crap. No, no, it's not almost. It is pure Century Overload. And with Batman, it's not as bad unless you get to certain, like if you're stacking modes and that kind of stuff, and you're going, oh, wow, there's a lot of stuff on here. I liked it because it seemed like it was a little simpler because we are simple people. Right, Ron? Oh, most definitely. I am very simple. Yes. So it felt like you can actually keep track of stuff, which I liked and enjoyed. Plus, I liked that it looked more like old school, as you said, like Chicago Gaming, where it just looks like a Williams from the 90s, which we've heard Robert Mueller say that that's what he's almost like trying to emulate because it was the best.
    20:14
    Yeah, this is definitely emulating Williams of the 90s. This looks like if Williams stayed in business and was still making games, this is what it would look like. All down to the designer, too. Right.
    20:26
    I'm glad to hear that because that seems to be part of the overall goal here is to bring it back while pulling it forward. I like that. Bringing it back, pulling it forward. You should trademark that. It could be the new Deep Root trademark.
    20:44
    I'm trying to think of things I can actually ask without getting too – because I know there's only so much you're going to be able to answer. Yeah, the only thing we can talk about is stuff that happened in Houston up to that point. Yeah, okay, Houston.
    20:56
    Ball time. How would you say – what was like your average ball time in this game? Two, three minutes, some were less. but then he had you know some all-stars come up and figured it out and had some pretty good ball times but uh those outlanes can be hungry so yeah i mean they're especially that that right one can pretty can be pretty vicious the left one not so much they do have the kickback there which you will be able to relight of course but you know they were it was average i mean what's the normal time is usually a couple minutes right so that's kind of way they came out you know about a couple minutes of ball time for each ball and then occasionally we'd have like a 15 minute game show up you know and uh yeah so or a couple or if someone started a multi-ball then you'll see that happen and then you know that would definitely extend it but and that's when it kind of gets a little it can get a little crazy depending on how you've um what you've done before the multi-ball started so uh there's going to be a little bit of strategy in that and how you uh what what risks you take and as far as uh how many balls you have in multi-ball some people discovered that there because what we haven't discussed which is hard to see in the in the main picture is the xenon tube in the back yeah yeah i heard that yeah i was reading the this week in pinball hi jeff article on this and that's mentioned a lot the xenon tube and i'm looking like where's this xenon tube when i see when i hear xenon tube i think of xenon the game and that tube that goes across right but in the picture you'll see the z and zombie right and then you'll see a green cylinder heading to the upright at about one o'clock position you see that yep oh yeah that's the xenon tube and so you You can shoot balls in there.
    22:50
    Okay. So it's like kind of like the coffin lock in Metallica. Yeah, right. So you can sort of see them.
    22:59
    And so once they're loaded in there, you just want to have as many as up to three in there. It can hold up to three in there. And so that would be very good if you had three in there before you started multiball. Now, you could have one. That's good. but it would be very profitable if you had three but if you want to go over three you might just die before you do that and then you have none so so any any other interesting findings from the play testing that you can go into or that's just kind of like reconnaissance information is yeah that's yeah that is just yes um behind the scenes information that uh are being looked that and analyzed and double analyzed and addressed and all those words that we use for things like that i guess one thing one thing that was mentioned i guess in the in the gameplay video was um in addition to the points are the tickets so there is a currency in this game like you're earning tickets right and so when you go in and you start a mode it costs you tickets and part of your bonus is also tickets. There's going to be a bit of give and take between spending tickets and getting bonus There one reason why part of the bonus is how many tickets you have left so it like redemption tickets like an actual okay i get it yeah like you get tickets by doing things and you'll being hidden like that so you can discover what those things are to get more and then you start modes using those tickets and then but in order to get bonus part of it are the tickets you have left so it's going to be a bit of give and take and what you want to do like do you want to start a mood you probably do steve i have a great idea we need a zombie troll yeah we need yeah yum yum no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no trolls that's like that's like one of the worst toys ever but it's not just solid not just solid like medieval you know medieval was a solid thing yeah not like scolari trolls which are like ball one i think it'd be pretty funny zombie trolls although although if you do decide to do that i'll volunteer my voiceover services uh i'm sure bruce could do it too i'm just saying oh yeah we need to get your we need to get your demo tapes in right yeah you just tell me what you want you tell me how you want the jock pot calls you know You can do it all kinds of different ways. Jackpot. Full 24, yeah. Jackpot. Jackpot, Jack.
    25:41
    Or I can do like Dirty Harry. Jackpot. I'm Clint Eastwood. You don't tell me how to say it. I'm only saying it one way. You've only paid for me to say it once. Right. You do whatever you need to do. I'm going to say it once. Jackpot. Done. All right. I'm out. So how did it feel, Steve, to see people play a game that you had a hand in? That was actually my next question, Bruce. How was your feeling personally about this launch? It felt really good. Yeah, it felt really good to look in there, look into the expo hall and see the game amongst other games. Because it automatically looked different there as opposed to in where we are. You know, it looks different being out under the lights.
    26:22
    We had one under the large light and one under no light to see the difference. But just having it out in the hall. and it felt really good to share that moment. My mother and my brother flew down from Jersey to see it and to share the moment with them was awesome. I even had my podcast partner, Nikki DeLasagna, was there from the meltdown. She was there and that was cool. Just had a little bit of pinball family.
    26:54
    It felt really great to have them in there and just say, hey, I helped do some of the things in this. Come play it. And they said they had fun. They said they had fun with it. And hopefully they weren't just saying that to make me feel good because they're a Penn family. But, yeah, it felt really good to have them there, to have Mom, Dad, and Nikki there having fun with it. And then just seeing my fellow colleagues there experiencing the show and seeing lines five, six deep constantly all day. And then, you know, I'd scurry away to the tournament area, come back, still 5 or 6 deep, scurry away to do the seminar I did on competitive football, go back to the tournament, come back, still 5 or 6 deep playing. So, yeah, it was a really great feeling to see that happen. First step. Yeah. It's only the first step. It's only the first step, yeah. Believe me, it's only the first step. You haven't seen the other 10 games we're working on, Ron, that I can't reveal at all. Right, that I can't reveal. Exactly. I have rule sets I can't even tell you about.
    28:00
    Really. That's true. Because I don't think Steve will mind me saying this, but when we took the Uber from Josh Sharp's house, remember back to the expo? Right. You could tell you were like, oh, there's just so many things I want to say and I can't say anything. Just killing them. It's killing me. But, you know, like, yeah, I can't wait for you all to see it. But, yeah, you're going to have to wait. Well, speaking of that, there's going to be a major Deep Root event, it looks like, right before the Texas Pinball Festival. March 25th, yeah. Yeah, March 25th. That's going to be a big day. It said there will be members of the media possibly there, I'm just saying, you know. So you're putting in your campaign to those fans? Sure, I'll be media. I mean, I'm going there. I'm going to be at Texas Pinball Festival. I mean, I haven't gotten my plane tickets yet, so I can go a day early. I'm just saying.
    28:54
    Dead silence. Well, you show up in your slam-tilt gear and bring the banner. You know, who knows, right? So hear that, Bruce? We need gear. When are you getting those shirts made? Get that gear. Come on. I want the shirt, the good shirt done. Although that would look kind of ridiculous. Like a media event, someone shows up with a Beavis and Butthead slam-tilt shirt. Oh, yeah, let me in. Right. Yeah, that's really classy there. Yeah, well, I'm going to be there. So I'm like, yeah, there they go. Let them in.
    29:27
    I was reading the This Week in Pinball article on Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. It had a quote from Robert Mueller. And as you know, I've likened Robert Mueller to, I think, Hulk Hogan. I've used the voice on previous episodes because a lot of things he says sound like a cool wrestling promo. when he calls out other manufacturers and things like that. But he had this one line that was so good, and it reminded me of a particular wrestler. Basically, the crux of it is, Deep Root will humble the competition by being the go-to manufacturer for value. And I was just thinking of the Iron Sheik right there.
    30:10
    It's more like hard times, though. It's more like hard times in the King of the King. Hard times in the industry. That's right, baby. bit but we will humble the competition baby that is so a promo line right there i mean it's just like for the people this part of the people for the masses well you know brother deep room will not only fundamentally change pricing in the pitbull industry but we will humble the competition dude by being the go-to manufacturer for value i can't wait i can't we tell you it's the playfield with the hammer because he said now these these playfields that were on the prototypes were actually mirko right yeah but supposedly he had some of the deep root ones or he said like he you know he he hit the mirko one with a hammer and just made a huge crater then he hit the deep root one and it not a scratch well i mean i have held a hammer in my hand and hit a playfield and there has not been a dent in it and so i went oh all And he says it's wood, though. Bruce, what do you think it is? What is this secret? What can it be? Because I thought it'd be another surface. It can't be wood. But he said in this interview it is wood.
    31:21
    I don't know. Is it covered with titanium? Or something? I don't know. Unicorn dust? Unicorn? What was that thing in Star Trek IV?
    31:34
    Transparent aluminum? Transparent aluminum! That's it. That's how he said it. That's it. They figured it out, the formula. The whales. So now we can hold a whale in there. You can hold the whales and a play field with transparent aluminum. I figured it out. Did it. This is awesome. You did it. Check, please.
    31:54
    Oh, I even have that here. Humble the competition. Right. That's right, dude. Dude. So this launch, what can you tell us about that? As far as where is it going to be located? It's going to be located where I'm working, basically, in the Deep Root Auditorium. No, no, no, no. But, yeah, that's, yeah. So, San Antonio, come on down. 325, where it will be, what does it say? Yes, right here. We'll launch in the Deep Root Auditorium on Wednesday, March 25th at 855 a.m. Be there or be square. Yep, schedule of events. Dude, schedule of events, media passes, travel vouchers, lodging, and VIPs to be announced at due time, dude. Wednesday, Wednesday, Wednesday! The only way you'll miss it is if you're in jail, and if you are, break out. Yeah, get out. Yeah, whatever. Do what you got to do, because you got to do that, then you got to do TPF. So you got to do all that. You're not allowed to be in jail for that week. So I'm trying to think. It's really, is there any more shows at this point? I mean, bigger shows that are going to happen? I mean, there's the, we'll get into it. Like, Indisc is coming up. But as far as, like, a show that you would like, unveil a new game out, But it's pretty much Texas, isn't it? Yeah, that's first up, right? I mean, what's February? Anything?
    33:12
    I'm not sure there's someone. When's Pentastic New England? No, that's like in the summer. That's later, okay. Yeah, I'm thinking, I mean, Steve's not going to say anything, but I'm thinking we're going to see some production Raza action by that time. Maybe even at the show. Maybe even a whole row of them. Yeah, I'm thinking Marco style. Marco's size booth of games. All right, we shall see. We shall see? All right. We'll get off of Raza now so Steve can feel more comfortable. We'll talk about tournaments. Yay! I'm a tournament player.
    33:47
    Thank God we can stop thrilling me. There was a tournament this weekend. Actually, there were two tournaments this weekend. Ooh, yes. That were the last of the Papa Stern Pro Circuit tournaments, which we have the tournament leader here. you're number one in the circuit and i think i did get enough to retain my lead because i'm at fifth so that should be all right i think you're all right i think you're okay but um to get in i think since the last time we were on i believe stern has sweetened the pot a bit yeah there's a bit more monetary uh value in this uh competition now so so steve when you win what are you going to get? I don't know. Whatever game they said I can have. So they're giving a game. Is it a Munsters? I don't know what it is. What is it? I forgot. I posted it on my site and I forgot. It's probably a Munsters because I think – sorry, Stern. I think Munsters is going to be the new WWE. Okay. Yeah. I think they started to run out of the WWEs. Now it's going to be Munsters you're going to get. That ain't bad.
    34:54
    That's not bad. Whatever. You know. Do you still have your Game of Thrones new in box? Still new in box? It's still in the box. Oh, my God. I'm afraid to open it and see if there's, like, something weird that happened with it. Because, like, I forgot when I got it. It was 2015. Oh, yeah. It was 2016. You got it during the great ghosting, yeah. Like, right before it or something like that. The ghosting wars of 2000-whatever, yeah. Oh, I'm scared. So, whatever. It's going to be like Raiders of the Lost Ark when I open it. It's like, you know. Ah!
    35:28
    What happened? Well, you know, the clear coat has had plenty of time to cure. Let's just say that. It's several years. It's several years to cure. Yeah, I think it's monsters and Stern is sweet in the pot with an extra, what is it, 5K? 5K in the game, yeah. Damn. If you get there, you get 600, so that pays for your flight or whatever. If I have the number one seed, I get 1,000. If I lose out the first game, I have $1,000, so that'll work. So that's what I was looking at. I was looking at, okay, what's fourth? So I know what I got. Okay, I got that. So if I win, then I can get more. Anyone listening saying, like, what circuit? What are you talking about? It's the pro. There are certain tournaments throughout the year that are designated as circuit events, i.e., more important. Right, because the people who play there. And because of the Whopper value. Mm-hmm. Throughout the year, everyone gets points, circuit points for those events. and the top 20 players will get to play in the actual circuit final, which is when is the circuit final and where is it? I don't even know at this point. That's an interesting question. We shall find that out. Oh, we don't know yet. Hopefully soon so we can have flights. Yeah, actually get flights. I didn't know. It hasn't been announced. I thought it was going to be Chicago or something. You figure it will be. I mean, yeah. Let's just figure out whether it's going to be at the bottom lounge again like it was last year or what. Because that's convenient. But that's what it was last year, and the year before that was the bottom lounge in Chicago. And the way they're going to do it is the 20 players is going to be a ladder.
    37:02
    Ladders are fun. We love ladders. So it's going to be, correct me if I'm wrong here, it's going to be foursomes. Right. So you're going to start with, like, player 20, 19, 18, and 17. Right. And whoever finishes last, you're out. Yeah, last place and you're fired. And then 16 comes in. And you keep doing that. And does it go that way all the way to the end? or do they do like two out of three or something at some point? No, apparently it's all over the end because I thought it was two out of three, and no, even the last game is – that last game is essentially an $8,000 game. Wow. So when you get into that final foursome, last person gone, then three, then two. And then that's it. The one. Right. So who knows? It could be an $8,000 game of Robocop with tight tilt. I mean, who knows what it's going to be? We just know it's going to be a Stern game. Oh, that's true. Okay, I forgot about that part of it. Yeah. A Stern and or Data East or some offshoot. Maybe it'll be Lethal Weapon 3.
    38:03
    Wow. Sega. South Park, everybody. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ha!
    38:21
    Okay. Okay, we'll say you're your opponent as a first, because that might influence your decision. Yep. You have to pick any Data East game, what would it be? Jurassic Park. Okay. You have to pick any Sega game, what would it be? That I'm not sure of. I need a list of Sega games to know which one I might probably miss. The ones I'm thinking of, I probably don't want, because it's like South Park. No. Baywatch? Maybe.
    38:49
    You can include? What's it called? Maverick. No way. You can do Jurassic Park 2, The Lost World. Strike that out. Godzilla. Everyone likes Godzilla. That's true. I mean, that's okay. Starship Troopers.
    39:08
    Godzilla is still winning. X-Files. Godzilla is definitely winning. Lost in Space. Okay, we'll say Godzilla. We'll just say that. Yeah. Now you have to pick any stern.
    39:23
    I'm not allowed to. My rules and contract with Deep Bird. Yeah. What would I pick? This is purely competition question process. Yeah. I don't know what I'd pick. Like, hey, Black Knight, maybe.
    39:39
    Pro or premium? Well, pro. Hopefully the pro is what's going to be there, because they're going to have one there. Hopefully it's the pros that were not there for seven hours. It's going to be the pro. There's no way your premium is going to be there. All right. Interesting. So no Lethal Weapon 3, really? Nah. Because Lethal Weapon 3 would take 11 hours, because you're going to shoot the ramp until one of our hands fall. Oh, no, no, no. Everyone says that. That's so not right. Mm-hmm. Try it online. I challenge you. Oh, you're not here anymore. Take the shot. I would challenge you. What, did you put Flipper Hop in the thing? No, I didn't put Flipper Hop into it. Did you put the software in it that makes it worth $1 million instead of the increasing values like normal? I played Alberto Santana on it, and he did the ramp thing. And I did other things, and I won. That's all I have to say. Okay. And it was normal. Like 3S was $3 billion, and 7 was 7, and 14 was 14, and multiples of 7 is multiples of 7. So it's like 77 is $77 million. 84 is 84 million like that these really high level tournament players ruin all my favorite games Bruce once you start talking about those high multiples of 7 everybody doesn't want to play it you can take your 50 million movie special finish with the gun for 1 million so $51 million and counter with a $77 million round. Yeah.
    41:16
    Which, by the way, means you got one for $70 million and $63 million and $56 million and $49 million and $42 million. And so on. Okay, okay. I'll drop the Lethal Weapon 3 thing. Yeah.
    41:28
    This weekend, we had the last circuit event, or events. The first one, me and Steve were both at Freeplay Florida. Ooh, at the Caribe Orlando Resort Hotel. The Caribe Royal. Whatever. Yeah. Convention Hall. Something. Yeah. It's nice. Whatever it is, it's a nice place to be. They had a Classics. They literally had Classics and Classics 2. Classics 2 being the main. Yeah, like Classics 1 and a half. It was like Classics main and Classics 2, right. Because in the main, what was it? It was Black Knight, Tron, Guardians, and then Classics. And also Robo War. We had Centaur, Devil's Dare, Grand Prix, Joker, Poker, Meteor, Robo War, Sinbad, and Folly. Sinbad, yep. And then for actual classics, we had 2001, El Dorado City of Gold, which broke immediately and I never saw up. We had, what's this thing? Flip a Card. Yeah, Flip and Pray, it should have been called. Right. Then we had Grand Slam, which, oh, God, what a turn. Just hit it up the middle as much as possible and try not to drain. Quick draw, where your main thing you see in the play field is, like, there's two banks of five drop targets on each side. So you're thinking, oh, that's what I need to hit. No. No, you avoid those completely and just hit up top over and over and over. And, oh, by the way, quick draw, which you could not breathe on, by the way. Oh, yes, yes. If you even tried your typical downward motion on the lockdown bar a little too hard, tilt. Nope, gone. Insta-tilt. Then we had Victory, which I actually like Victory. I think it's got an interesting play field. They're not fun with it, but in a tournament game where you're essentially hoping you can chase the ball around the play field the right way. But I think people just kept getting up to top and shooting that 100,000 ramp. Yep. That's what it just devolved into. I was like, oh, okay, that's what I was supposed to do? Okay, good. but I'm glad I didn't waste any more money on classics. Good. Okay. I played 2001. I played one game. I had 8,557. Wow. I wish I could do anything like that. Yeah. I was there like, oh, yeah, starting hot. And that was pretty much it.
    43:49
    One and done for Ron. I think I sucked at most everything else. Nothing else was any good, unfortunately. So I actually went over to the main bank, and I only brought like $60 with me. It was like 20 bucks for seven entries or to play seven different games. Yeah. So it was like I knew there was no way. I mean, for me to qualify with the level of competition here, it would probably require $300 of constant playing to get in. And at that point, is it even worth it? Right. With $60, I just made up my mind, I want to have a decent Meteor score because it's Meteor. Right. I'm a classic Stern guy. It's my gimmick. This was an interesting meteor, though. It had repro targets in it. So can you say brick? Well, my goodness. I have, I think, four bricks on one ball, and it was actually the best ball I had. But it's frustrating. You had to play it more like you had to play it for the multipliers and for your rockets. This was not going to be just hit spinner over and over. Because the spinner was not good. On max spinner, you'd get 25,000 maybe? Yeah. That's it. And I actually enjoy playing it better the non-spinner way. Like my Meteor I have set up to do as much spotting as possible, so it's tough to keep the spinner at max value. So it kind of forces you to actually hit all those wonderful drop targets that are on the play field that everyone ignores. Right. The problem with this is there was issues with the Meteor bank itself where it would reset and the targets would just fall down. Yeah. Or the ones that were up, you'd hit them and they'd just brick. And the 1-2-3 targets were all replaced with, like, new 1-2-3 targets, so they would brick. They had the two star posts removed completely, the out-lane posts, because, you know, who needs them? It just makes it harder. Yeah, and remove the rubber from the mini posts and the in-lanes and the center post. They remove the rubber from the Kirk post? How dare they? Fun! Yeah, they always do that. How dare you! How dare you make an already not really that long playing game even harder. Yeah. I played it, and then it broke. Nice. I was like, oh, no, I'm not going to get to it. I want at least a decent score. And then it was fixed. It was funny. It had all new boards in it, except for the Rectifier board. Guess what it had an issue with? Rectifier board. Shorted diode on the Rectifier board. It would blow the display fuse. Wow. So all the displays would be out. Put a new fuse in, you turn the game on, immediately blow.
    46:29
    Even with all the displays disconnected. Jim Belsito actually, he had the meter and found the shorted diode. That was fixed, and it was back up. They didn't use it in the finals, though, because of the meteor target issues. Right, because it was just random. You get 1,000 or 7,000. Who knows what you start with? So I got to play it a few more times, and I got my 498K, which doesn't seem like much, but that was good enough for 13th place. Oh, that was good. That was good enough for 13th place. That was good. I was very happy, and yeah. And I played RoboWar because I wanted to. Everyone was, like, busting on RoboWar. I don't know why. RoboWar was fun. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, Steve Bowden, he was fifth highest score on it with 3.7 million, so we know he liked it. I was feeling good. I was like, yeah, get in the music and the firing guns and things are blowing up and exploding. And, you know, they're saying attack one, two, and three. Okay, I'll do that. What do you think of Robo War, Bruce? Oh, we used to have one on location around here about a year ago. Mm-hmm. Not bad. It's, you know, hit the stand-ups and colors, so you get your stuff and go from there.
    47:40
    Wait a minute. I thought they were drop targets. Yeah, there's drop targets in the front, yeah. Yeah, okay. But it's that ramp, though. You had to hit the ramp on the fly, basically. Oh, really? And they also took the diverter out from the right. Not the diverter. The gate from the right. So if you tried to catch the ball, it would go out the right outling. I know. Guess what happened to me? Yeah. Of course. It was fun. Everyone was saying you had to hit the ramp on the fly. I hit the ramp three times from a trap. What? Yeah, I did. All three times I did the same thing. It went to the very top, kind of just stopped like it was thinking. Right. And then decided, okay.
    48:15
    They made it the rest of the way. And then everyone's telling me afterwards, like, really? I made it from a trap. And they're like, no. How is that possible I want to see this Liar Yeah so those were the games So in the finals let me see I got the finals up here So the winner of the classics was I know who it was. Eric Stone. Yeah, Eric Stone. Yeah. And I always like to give the other props to the other. We got Andrew Rosa II. The son was second, finished second. Jeff Teolis. You ever heard of that guy? No. No? He finished third. And Ben Granger finished fourth.
    48:57
    So then in the main, which finished it like at, like, see, here's the good thing about having all those classics games, and they had a rule you couldn't pick the same game twice. They actually finished around five, like only an hour after the show ends. Well, yeah, well, it started at like 9.30 also, so. Yeah, but I mean, for a lot of the tournaments I've been to, that's like, that's like finishing at noon. I mean, that's like incredible. That's like finishing ridiculously early. I mean, it's like, wow, it's not like 11 o'clock at night. We could probably get dinner. But not only were the classic games there, the modern games were evil as well. Like the Guardians that was there, the flippers started out lower, so the shots were different. And so it was like just strange. So even shooting the mode shot was the mode start shot on the right was weird. Everything was strange. And the Tron was weird. I mean, Tron's Tron, whatever. but that Tron was not Tron. It was strange. That Tron was not Tron. It was not. I mean, you, I think the top score was like 63 for a while. Then somebody got 81. Finally, you were, you were happy if you came out with like 50 and you were happy if you started, you were happy if you started disc. I mean, really? I mean, it was, it was like that. I mean, it was like, where was it? Cause you would be, you would be playing and all of a sudden you're feeling good. And all of a sudden out of nowhere, like a right hook from nowhere else. it would just be gone you know wait what wait i was all right and then kick it gone or you have one of those low sling guns you know you head off the left slingshot and it doesn't fire and that's gone down the middle you know so that was strange and of course black knight was being black knight so you're trying to hit you try to backhand the target and it could just go straight down the right out lane because reasons so any and any shot off of that you're just trying to see if you can recover so that contributed to tournament ending early so the winner of the main division was eric stone eric stone on fire second was derrick price third was bob matthews well i'm sure was loving all the classics in there right and carl d'angelo was fourth who's that guy he's the guy who streamed everything while playing although he made it easy on himself he qualified first really early. Right, yeah. So he was just sitting around streaming. See, it was so much easier. No pressure on him. And that was the Free Play Florida. So congrats to the winners.
    51:27
    There was another tournament. There was another tournament. OBX. Hey, OBX took the other half of the competitors in the split. Where's that? Virginia? That was North Carolina. Outer Banks.
    51:41
    Outer Banks. I know where that is. What is OBX stand for? Is that Outer Banks with the X? Outer Banks. Extreme. Okay, that sounds like a 90s thing. Outer Banks Cross, yeah. And I almost forgot, for Free Play Florida, the women's finals, we had in first place Norma Jennings. We had in second, Gwen Octavia.
    52:04
    In third, Bobby Douthit, I think. And then fourth, we had Cheryl Jarosz. I'm probably butchering these names terribly. I apologize if I butchered your name. And you know what? Let's give B finalists some love here. For B winners, we had Brian Dominey in first, Alex Marino in second,
    52:27
    John Beagle in third, and Bob Caldwell in fourth. Then for OBX, like I said, we had the – basically the players who weren't at Free Play Florida went to OBX,
    52:39
    and they did a bracket thing, so it's a little harder to read. but we have Alexander Kismarczyk won with Chris Stevens in second, Justin Campbell in third, and Louis Bevins in fourth. Yeah, that really helps some people get into the top 20. Yeah, I can't wait for that to hash out. We're going to see what's going to happen down there at the bottom of that 20 list there. It might be a separation by a few points, literally depending on who showed up at what tournament. It might come down to that as far as the Whopper results. For the B Finals, the winner was Nathan Epley with John Hegel in second.
    53:16
    So that was OBX. We were talking about points. Hey, Bruce, how are those upstate points going? I couldn't tell you anymore. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Basically, you submitted everything. I submitted everything. They did a full database rebuild. Before the rebuild, it said I was in four events.
    53:37
    I've been in at least 11. Of course. I've been in like 14, I think. Oh, yeah. So after the rebuild, you know how many events it said I was in? Two. Three. Yeah, I know. It says I'm in three events.
    53:51
    And I've always told Josh I want to go by the numbers. At the end of each tournament, there's a number in the URL. He says, no, give me the title name. So I give him the whole title name. And then what does Becker want? What does Adam Becker want? Can you give me the IFPA tournament number for all the events? Like, oh, my God.
    54:13
    So that's my project tomorrow. Just look up Ron Hallett and go through and make sure you get all mine. How do you even do that? You literally have a list of just every upstate thing? No. What I have to do is I have to go into the New York State one and strike out all the five borough ones. then whatever's left i have to then copy and paste which you can't copy and paste off the ifpa page because it screws it all up because it's in html so i have to write it down huh you can't just copy and paste the number in a like notepad or something well i did a number but when you do the whole thread or like the name of like if you go to say if you go into your player ranking and you go to the left-hand side and you click New York State. Uh-huh. Once you do that. Once I do that. The funny thing is, when it comes to the upstate New York rankings, I can't find it in the IFPA site. You can't. I gave up. I Googled it. I asked them. I Googled IFPA pinball upstate New York, and it goes right to it. That's the only way I can find it. I literally can't find it on the site, which is hilarious. I know. I've asked them to fix that, too. It used to say other. when you looked under New York it would say other things or whatever and you'd click on it and then Upstate New York was one of the ones you could pick. It doesn't say that anymore. Oh, it's still got my Ron Hallett from Intergalactic on here. There's a twin. Ron Hallett Jr. Intergalactic version. Steve knows what I'm talking about.
    55:42
    If you go to the tournaments and try to copy and paste and then put it into email, it screws it all up. So what I have to do now is go through each one which luckily I still have the list from November 1st, and I have to get each number. So say the Buffalo Pinball Winter Charity Tournament back in January 12th, I have to type down 29586 and submit that, you know, and then give a whole list of all the numbers and go from there. But I have to compare the upstate one and then strike out all the lower. Can you also edit the page, though, and just get all the links that way? It has all the tournament numbers right in it. It breaks it down. It breaks it down screwy when you try to copy and paste it. It really does. It's terrible. So we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. Oh, I will mention, I did some announcing during the classics in the main. Okay. Because Carl was there at the Carl rig. He has a new rig. Oh, new, new. It's the new lightweight rig. This is the coolest thing ever. it literally you can disassemble it and it fits in a briefcase what yes dun dun dun dun right yep it literally is like it's like and he said at the airport they had him had to open it because they thought it might be a gun wow but it's like it's like a big briefcase thing but you open it up and literally it all fits in there the entire rig like it's the BF9000 from Doom or something. I'm already jealous. Is this a gun, sir? Is this a rocket launcher, sir? While we were announcing, we were talking about Sinbad, which is one of the games, and we were talking about various System 1 Gottlieb games, and which ones we thought were the best. So I'll ask you, Bruce, what do you think is the best System 1? I have it at the bar. You do? What could that be? Countdown.
    57:45
    Countdown? What's the name of this bar? The Silver Ball Saloon in East Rochester, New York. I have Zach's Countdown now at the bar.
    57:54
    So, Steve, what do you think? I would agree with Countdown. Okay, okay. This is good. I would. This is good. So this is during the stream. I'm like, I asked the same thing. And what did Jeff Teolis, I think he said like Joker poker. And I mentioned Countdown. He's like, no, no. He puts Countdown at the same level as Buck Rogers. What? No. And I literally said, are you high? You must be high. God. I would give some proper respect to Joka Poker. Oh, I like Joka Poker, too. Of course. The challenge of Countdown is to get the targets. You have to get the first one to get anything going. You have to get the green one. Then the yellow. Then the blue. According to Mr. Teolis. no better than Buck Rogers. Wow. But the funniest part is sitting right behind me at the same table is Josh Sharp. I turn to him. Hey, Josh, what's the best System 1 Gottlieb game? Without hesitation. Oh, Countdown. There you go.
    59:00
    Great minds think alike. Sorry, Jeff. Buck Rogers? Buck Rogers is terrible. My favorite part of the stream, though, was at one point, I think it was during the classics, like Josh Sharp has his laptop there because he's working. Right. So he has the thing open and at one point during the stream, we're like, what time is it? And I'm there like, it's 7.30 because I'm looking at Josh's laptop and he's like, no, it's 8.30 because Josh's laptop. Obviously, he's on central time. Yes. So I'm on the stream like, oh, I'm sorry, I was looking at Josh Sharp's laptop. Oh, look, the next three Stern games. Cool.
    59:39
    Sweet. See, I can be funny sometimes. Dead silence. Just let it hang there. You love how it hangs there. Just let it marinate. Steve's right in there. That's good. Oh, man.
    59:55
    We have Steve here, so we have to do, like, one of our games. Okay, well, figure it out. I'm here in body, not mind. Not in mind. Yeah, or spirit. I have a sick head. I really do. Sick head? So you're saying I should beat you easily in whatever game we choose? You should, but it won't happen. I'm trying to think. How should we do this? Because we'll play our usual game, which I can't think of the title of it now. What do we call our game again where we pick the three games? Oh, Face Off. It was Face Off. Yeah, boy. Wow. Wow, yes. We're very rusty. But Face Off. Three games. I get three. Bruce gets three. Well, we get a pool, and then we get to pick a game from the pool. Above ground or below? The question is, what pool do we pick these from?
    60:49
    Well, since we have Steve here, what we're going to do is, Steve, just let us know what all the new Deep Root games are going to be. We'll pick from those, and then we can go over the merits of the games that we don't know and we've never seen. Right. You take the list from this week in pinball, whatever. There you go. Or I think last time we did this, we just took the list from, like, a tournament. So we can literally go to Free Play Florida. There you go. Because that was a heck of a collection of games there. All right, so I got the page back up. So the games were Blacklight. Blacklight? No. Blacklight, yeah. No. Blacklight. No, Brightlight. That's Brightlight. Gremlins coming out. You heard it here. Black Knight Sword of Rage. Centaur. Devil's Dare. Grand Prix. Guardians of the Galaxy. Joker Poker. Meteor, RoboWar, Sinbad, Tron, and Volley. So there's basically only three newer games. So yeah, that'll force us to pick some classics here.
    61:45
    So who goes first, Bruce? I couldn't tell you. You can go first. I don't care. Wow! I should be the one judging because I am sickhead right now.
    61:59
    Alright, I will go first. I will pick Guardians of the Galaxy. Guardians of the Galaxy, a proven winner from Stern Pinball based on the enormous hit franchise, Guardians of the Galaxy, which do they have a third movie yet? Or is that coming out? I guess it's coming, right? But first two mega hit movies with all the characters you love, like Quill and whoever Batista plays, and the raccoon. And that's it. Yeah. And Groot, done. And Green Uhura. Right. Do you like Metallica? Well, you're going to see some of the shots from Metallica. You're going to see some of the shots from several Borg games. Do you like John Borg? You will love Guardians of the Galaxy. Do you like Bash Toys? Then you will love Guardians of the Galaxy. We have Groot, a custom-molded Groot head that you can bash with the ball. Totally awesome interaction. We have a Rocket Raccoon Rocket. basically fires the ball right back in your face. We have actual music from the movie. We have actual speech. No. We have really good speech impersonators from the movie. Bobolibo. Yes. Bobolibo. Excellent. The best money can buy speech impersonators for the movie. And like I said, we have awesome music from the movie. We have mode-based game. Exciting mode-based play. Makes you play the whole play field. Make sure you can play all your different modes. We have multiple multiballs. We have the orb multiball. We have the group multiball. They're all super fun. It's super fun to shoot. Great artwork by Christopher Franchi. Matches the movie perfectly. See all your favorite characters, which I mentioned earlier. As I mentioned, it's got a beautiful LCD display featuring actual clips from the movie. Relive the moments with your favorite characters. I give you Guardians of the Galaxy.
    63:59
    Wow, Bruce. Wow, I thought that was one of my better plots. Hey, hey, hey, back on, all right. I yield the floor to Sleephead. Okay, so now I get to go against your pick of Guardians of the Galaxy.
    64:12
    I don't do this new shit. I'm going old school, baby. The best game in the whole bank, Grand Prix. Wow. Two spinners, enjoyable fun.
    64:25
    Nice colors, nice artwork. Basic rules, but fun rules. Hit A, B, C, or D. Hit two or the other two. Hit the spinner. Cashed out with the out-holes on each side. Done. Great game. You can't trap a ball because guess what? It might go out into the out-lanes because of the openings outside. Ingenious. Great game. Blows away guardians. Not a problem. I'd rather play ten games of Grand Prix than one game of guardians. I yield the floor. Wow. They're called saucers, not out-holes. That would kind of suck if they were in out-holes. You'd shoot them and lose your ball. The way those sauces were in the tournament, they could have been out-holes. For real.
    65:06
    And we know why you picked this, Bruce, because you know it's Steve's favorite EM. That's Dirty Pool. That's Dirty Pool right there. Who picked it? Who picked first? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't think you would stoop to that level, Bruce. I tried to keep it classy. Because I'm saying that Guardians there That Grand Prix there Played way better than the Guardians I'm just talking in general Here In general I like Grand Prix Playing it more Because you get to shoot the spinner And you get to do Pete Townsend with your arm As the ball continues to just count the money And then it bounces up there And then it's still counting the money And then it lands in the saucer Except the Grand Prix that was there it could just kick the ball out right down the middle. The spinners did not spin nearly fast enough. That's true. It was not nearly fast enough. But once you hit them, oh, yeah, the shot was a little early. But once you hit it, yeah, especially that left one. The left one was sweet.
    66:08
    Right one not as sweet. It's the Steve motto, show me the money. Yep, show me the thousands. Show me the thousands. And that Guardians was stressful. so what you're saying is I won that's what I'm hearing I'm saying Grand Prix has to win not just because it's my favorite game not just because it's my favorite EM it is a great game I liked playing that better than Guardians there and yeah I would normally I even turned it over at Replay Florida and I was like wow can't believe it Okay, canceling my Texas plane flight now.
    66:53
    All right, Bruce, you're ahead 1-0. What are you going to pick? I'm keeping with the goodness. I mean, you slaughtered me so bad, you literally didn't even have to do rebuttal. I didn't have to, and you didn't either. No, because it wasn't a point. It was wasted energy. So I'm going now with the second best system one, Joker Poker. great game great shots three flippers a good wholesome fun terrible sounds first to admit it but it's every system one so just get used to it but you have a great play field fun to play hit your cards make your uh points so you actually get the five thousand four thousand i think i think it's five four three two one but you get the pointage great game enjoyable all the way around I'd rather play 10 of these in whatever game Ron's picking. I yield the floor again. Oh, really? You would rather play 10 of those than play possibly the greatest early Stern Electronics game ever in Meteor. That's what you're telling me. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I got him there, folks. I got him there big time. I feel like the top target's better on that one. Yeah, no. Meteor. I give you Meteor. Steve Kirk's masterpiece. based off the hit, um, slightly, um, based off the movie Meteor. It's a license. The license. One of the, one of the true great licenses. It was, it was actually their, let's see, that would be their second license. This is Stern's second license game ever. They just killed it here. Steve Kirk is a genius. It has the drop targets. It matches full movie theme integration in the movie. They use three rockets to blow up the meteor. Hence the three rockets in the game. How many people know that? It is great theme integration, a great game, sweepable drop targets. Who doesn't like drop targets? You have memory drop targets on the top with Meteor, another great Stern innovation. It just is one of the best playing games of early solid state of any era, I mean of any manufacturer.
    69:07
    There's a reason this thing sold over 7,000 units, their highest production. And I give you Meteor. Oh, did I mention it has awesome background sound that increases in intensity as your ball gets more and more along? Yes. Meteor. Suck it. I rest the floor. Is that the movie line? I think Sean Connery says that in the movie. Suck it, Moneypenny.
    69:35
    Oh, shit. I'm in the wrong. We thought he was in Zardoz or whatever the other movie where he wears underwear the whole thing.
    69:44
    Well, clearly, not just because this has to be tied going into round three, but Meteor clearly wins. No rebuttal even needed? Come on, Bruce, weren't you going to rebut me? Come on, can we try a rebuttal? I mean, it's going to be tough. You're really going to have to, you know, I'm just telling you now. Oh, I see Joker, Poker. Well, actually, this sounds not bad when it's Chimes. Yeah, true. I agree with that. The art is okay.
    70:12
    Eh. Uh-uh. Eh. It's just eh. I really don't have much else. Compared to Meteor. And Meteor artwork is not that great either, though. It just takes off the freaking movie poster. What original reality is that?
    70:27
    Crickets, I hear. But still that spinner, though. Oh, I agree. You know? But comparing artwork to artwork, I think Joker Poker's a little better. Without the spinner meteor is better, Bruce Okay 1-1 Go ahead, Ronald Oh boy, alright Man, this is tough I'll go for it Robo War Nice, here we go A awesome Gottlieb game People like Bruce who hate all Gottliebs They would never even take the time To appreciate a game like Robo War But it has an awesome very makeable ramp it has multi-ball drop targets it's just a cool theme you're in the robo war with all the flashing lights and cool music you got all that gottlieb music gottlieb really had it going on here i mean what more can you ask for than robo war it's just flout out fun in the just pure gottlieb fun way i mean gottliebs are so fun right bruce we all love gottliebs great art did i mentioned the art the art is excellent on this game great gameplay great music multi-ball what more could you ask for it's just a fun game the way you shoot the ramp and it just kind of stops at the top and then just makes it up it's it's just like deadpool it's deadpool before there was deadpool it literally reminds me of deadpool it does the same thing deadpool ripped this game off. That's it. I yield the floor.
    71:57
    Black Knight Sword of Rage. An incredible third generation of a great game. Now, this is the pro version, which makes it even better. It's just so enjoyable. The jackpot callouts. When you get the Knight's Challenge, oh my god. Coolest thing. You get the old music from the 1980s. Black Knight original. You get the cool stuff. I love the music on this game with, what's his name from Anthrax? Great soundtrack. Scott Ian. Thank you. Scott Ian. Great soundtrack.
    72:35
    Great rules from Tim Sexton. Friend of the show Friend of all of ours Wink wink hint hint Ooh Ron ignored So uh so uh look at this so you gotta go a black knight sort of rage steve richie great great great i yield the floor uh okay timmy please forgive me please forgive me black knight sort of rage and we're talking about the pro because that's what was in the tournament and i i said that'll yeah so i won't i won't bust on the just infinite play times you have the same issues you have black to black night 2000 you have the right flipper for almost everything in the game it's just right flipper right flipper right flipper yeah i love the awesome multi-ball intro sequence when it says stand up and fight in the whole game oh wait a minute it doesn't do that it just starts and then you just skip it anyway fail the artwork is good i'll give it that but the gameplay it just has all these wonderful stand-up targets we love that you hit and just immediately drain you. We have the flail. Cool toy and all until it drains you. We have a MagnaSave that doesn't work half the time because they put the button in the wrong place. So if you can even get to it, half the time it doesn't seem strong enough to actually get the ball out of the out lane. Anyway, sorry, the best Black Knight was still the first one. Black Knight Sword of Rage. Sorry. Sorry, Timmy. Don't hate me. I'll yield the floor. Robo War. System 80B junk. If you find one that's actually working, congratulations. You've already been ahead of 99% of other owners who own RoboWar. Ground mod issues you need to do and all this other crap just to keep it running. Then it's an okay game. Not a bad game. But the artwork is pretty hideous on that back blast. and it has the stupid head design that you can't even open at the back box to get to any of the good stuff in there. Oh, and can we mention that nice, bright, ugly fluorescent bulb that freaking washes out half of the freaking back glass anyway? And the displays, alphanumerics, too small. Blue, who wants blue as your alphanumerics? Terrible game. Just put it on the garage heap, throw it out, add some lighter fluid, light it up, boys. Wow. Yield the floor. Wow. That's impressive that you could insult the color of the Discord display. Yeah, I don't like blue. You found new things to insult. I've never heard that one before. I don't like blue, but I am partially colorblind, so it does, you know. Very, very interesting, gentlemen.
    75:14
    This is very close, actually. Yeah. So you might think it's surprisingly close. But I tell you, one of these two games I was involuntarily dancing to during the tournament while I was playing it, and it was Robo War.
    75:33
    So I was having, I, yeah, I mean, that game's brutal. It was fun. Black Knight sort of rage. I sort of devolved into Please let me live when I hit the stand up And then please let me live When I hit this flail And then please let me live When I hit the super I mean it's nice to cash in the super That's good For my scoring Music's awesome of course in Black Knight Music's funny and quirky in Robo War So is the sounds I might never play a work in Robo War again Though in my life Who knows? This is really tough.
    76:17
    But I think I'm going to have to surprisingly go with RoboWar. You heard that, Tim. Yes! Go to RoboWar. Don't worry, don't worry. Tim doesn't listen to the podcast. Just the simple, surprising fun that I had with it.
    76:33
    Keith, Keith, Keith, go down the hallway. That's right, he does listen. About an hour and 20 minutes in, and there you go. I'll tell you that the counter to RoboWar was Tron that was the that would have won it for probably won it for Bruce Tron is not a fun game it is to me it's just a terrible game that Bruce owned it got rid of real fast I was waiting for the Tron when Ron was talking about how good the music was and all that stuff and I was waiting for that to be the clue to slam Tron down like a domino and it would have been over and also i'm very glad to see i mean even though bruce picked the ace of spades which is grand prix that neither of you picked the deuce of clubs which is volley no i know it's good i know you hate volley i hate i actually like i actually like volley because it is countdown em right hey i know volley volley eliminated me from the tournament so i i know what you're i know I hate Bali.
    77:38
    That 50-50 coin flip on both of those outlanes, I hate Bali. Tron does a great job of being Tron. You know what I mean? I mean, it's Tron. That whole thing feels like Tron. If you were playing a pinball in Tron's world, you would think it would sound and look like that. Right, exactly that, too. Yeah, that's pretty much what I always thought when I played. Like, yeah, this is Tron. especially when you play with the correct ramps with the actual, you know, the EL wire on it so they glow like they're supposed to. Right. To me, that's not even a mod. That's required. That should have been on there originally.
    78:19
    Speaking of Tron, they had a bunch of Trons at Freeplay Florida, the video games. Right. They had another Tron pinball game there, too, hiding in that little alcove behind the recognizer they had. They had a big recognizer set up. Yeah, you could play your Tron and your Gorf and your... Oh, yeah. And I went to the Gorf controller, and I was able to find George Gomez's name in the little checker pattern that he hid in there. I was pointing that out for my dad. Like, check it out. There's the Z, there's the M, the G, the O.
    78:50
    So I won Bruce. Barely, but yeah. Wow, Bruce is so excited. He's just so excited. I'm so sick it's not even funny. Oh, I'm sorry. Bruce, you've got to get well in time for the tournament. I know, because we have now 44 of the 48 people signed up. Wow. For what, Bruce? The Pinball Profile event on December 7th at the Silver Ball Saloon in East Rochester, New York. Their sign-ups are still available, I think, until tomorrow, I think you said. Then he's going to take the rest. I'm going to check right now. Well, where can I sign up for this, Bruce? Where do I need to go? You go to Pinball Profile. on Facebook, and you go Pinball Profile World Tour Silver Ball Saloon in East Rochester, New York. What's the address?
    79:42
    SilverBallSaloon.com, but if you go to Facebook pages, you go to your physical address. It's about the 135 West Commercial Street. Yes, there you go. I'm trying to get you to say it. Steve Bowden will say, hey, Steve, where is this Silver Ball Saloon? Oh, 135 West Commercial Street. East Rochester, New York. Sign-ups must enter by the 27th. There's four spots left. So be there or be square. You get a chance to win a lot of good prizes, giveaways. You get $5 off. Everyone that walks in the door who signed up gets $5 off either liquor or food. Nice. You get to play some kick-ass 28 pinball machines. And we have now rushes in the bar. Rush 2049 special editions. There's four. And if you get there a day early, there's going to be a tournament on Friday, I hear. Yes, there will be. And you get to see Ron Hallett of the world-famous Slamtail Podcast on Friday. I will be there, yes. Signing autographs, kissing babies. Signing autographs. I'll be there Friday, but then I will be driving home early Saturday morning so I can get home in time for the Varney Cup.
    80:51
    It's a big deal for the 518 area code. That's 518ers who never had a scene before. I'm glad you're so supportive, Bruce. Oh, yeah.
    81:02
    Wow. See, if we never had a scene, now we have multiple leagues and multiple locations, and now we're actually going to have an end-of-the-year event. Well, all right.
    81:12
    Isn't that awesome? My father even made it. He's psyched, I think. That's good. It's going to be a level zero arcade. Mm-hmm. Which Steve has been to level zero. Yes, we all have. Yes. I can't really plug it too much. It's like kind of invitational. I mean, you know. Oh, yes. Yeah. It's a secret. It's secretive.
    81:35
    Let's see. What else? Oh, some bad news, which everyone knew about but me. My dad knew this, and I didn't know it. The Saratoga Pinball Show is no more. Yep. Wow, really? Yeah, you knew it too. Yep. See, I don't really hang out on Pinside, and that's where the announcement was. It's actually not even on – it wasn't made on Facebook. But I guess people in our league knew, but I never heard it.
    82:02
    So I guess it was announced like a month ago. What's going on? What happened? They just – the YMCA didn't want to have it there again.
    82:13
    Fuck them assholes. So after three years and increasing attendance each year, it is no more. yeah that's great thanks guys it's going the way of the Rochester Game Room show no alternate scene possibilities no alternate hall somewhere anywhere Adam the guy who runs it he was kind of like getting burned out by it yeah I think this was kind of the last draw when YMCA said no we don't want to have it there this year like okay bummer the mail ball bag oh Wow, even that sounded bad. I told you, I'm dying.
    82:57
    All right, we'll end this soon, Bruce. Don't worry. I got an email from, I'll make sure I said this right, from Daniel Hoffhines, who you gave the shout-out at the end of the episode and completely butchered his name. I always do. Yeah. He was just curious about what the shout-out is all about. Ah. Maybe you could explain, like, how do you pick these names, Bruce? Ron pressures me every week to find a name. So I have to look up this name under extreme pressure, and it has to be different every time. And Ron just makes me, slams every day, hey, Bruce, did you get that last name yet? Did you get the name yet? And I am so much under pressure, I can't even put up with it anymore. You realize that's the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard.
    83:46
    You literally came up with it. I didn't even know where you were getting the names from until you told me one time. It actually was from the Magic Garden. Remember the TV show Magic Garden, Steve? No. No, you don't? No, I don't. Oh, my God.
    84:03
    It was the two females who were in this magic carpet and they had puppets and everything. At the end of the show, they looked through this magical wand with a mirror on the other end, but it was really clear and they could see into everyone else's TV and they go, and I see Jennifer and Debbie and Elizabeth. No, that's romper room. No, it wasn't romper room. Yeah. I see London. I see France. I see all that stuff. They used to put names out. Yeah. And I always got pissed off because they'd never say Bruce. Yeah, but there was this one lady who held the mirror in her hand and she said, I see Tom and I see Bill and I see, and this was romper. They did it in Rumbler, but they did that first in Magic Garden. Oh, okay. So Magic Garden, they did this, and I was always pissed off. I always said to my mom, like, why the fuck don't they say my name? Why the fuck don't they say my name? What the fuck? And you were saying that when you were five. Yes, I was pissed off. My mom said I was actually pissed off sometimes. I get pissed off. I'd be waiting for this show for 30 minutes and waiting for it to say my name, and they'd never say it. I'd be like, Mom, what the hell? What's going on, Mom? What did I do wrong? And she's like, nothing, nothing. Come on. They don't like gingers. That's what it was. See, now we're going to get into that. So I did it as my little thing saying if I knew somebody who was listening and following the show, I would try to say as many people as I knew. So I think I've done like 130 different times, which is pretty cool. And typically, haven't you been getting it from the Facebook page? Yes. Like basically when you like our Facebook page, you just might get your name mentioned. Yes. and actually David Hoffheim says PSTNA is a good game no it's not yes it is talking about one flip wonder back flip back flip back flip I crushed it though so it doesn't even bother me anymore it's a good game right Steve it's a good game yep I crushed it though you know so it's not even you know because you're such a superior player like you could totally hate a game and still crush it yep that's how good you are and that's why we've had three locally have all sold okay bruce uh uh let's see we had a couple more we had some more ideas for segments which we haven't used yet so that's good we'll keep it a good workout we really suck we asked for that we got all these ideas in and we haven't done anything yep so guess what now it is on ron yeah it's on me to come up with some something to make it happen make it so number one make it so number one with the number two in your face I think that's enough with the mail Bruce is getting Bruce is sick I am sicker than a dog and I got to work tomorrow so it's not going to be fun ask me what I did on my day off today Steve what did you do on your day off today I'm sorry no Bruce what did you do on your day off today fix rush machines does that involve monitors they've all been replaced all four have been rebuilt no I actually pulled a monitor out of the next game that's in the lineup.
    87:09
    NFL, Namco, Namco NFL football. Okay. You remember that? No. It's like X's and O's, but with four rollers, color, with teams and everything. Jets, Giants, all that kind of good stuff. When you said X's and O's, I'm thinking of the pinball machine. What does that have to do with it? No, no, no, no. The original Atari football X's and O's. Okay. Like that. But like, Red Iron Fight, but better. Ah, oh. Okay. With four players. You ever hear of this game, Steve? I can imagine it in my mind, yes. Look it up. Yeah, I remember seeing this game. It's like a big oversized cabinet. Yep. Does it look kind of close to the dimensions of, say, Gauntlet? No, no, no, no, no. It looks exactly like the old Atari X and O. It was flat. You had the roller coaster. Like Red Iron Fight. Oh, okay. Waste. Yes, like Ten Yard Fight. Yes. Okay. Yep. Now I know. Yep. It's a big honking. The monitor is 27 inches, and I had to lift it out of this machine today. Nice. Vertically. But you did power lifting in, like, college or something, right? I think I did. Yeah. I don't remember. He doesn't remember too many roids back then. I only broke my back when I was younger. You know, what the hell?
    88:29
    I will leave. This was one takeaway I had from Freeplay Florida. I hate Gilligan's Island. Oh, hot take. Wow, that's a hard take. No, but, I mean, most people will say it, but I will say this. I like the play feel for Gilligan's Island.
    88:47
    If you've actually played it, it has interesting shots. It even has, like, repeatable loop shots. It has a bunch of really interesting, fun-to-shoot shots. It has a really cool toy and the little revolving thing. but the rule set is just horrible it is one of just the worst rule sets i think i've ever seen on a game just what they make you do when the sounds are terrible uh the music is terrible yes oh god if you've ever played it you have to assemble all of the ingredients for the lava a seltzer to bring it to Kona, the volcano.
    89:29
    And you do this, and then you hit a scoop, and it starts the mode, and then you have to hit a ramp. How many times do you think you have to hit the ramp, Bruce, to actually get the jackpot? Four or five, if I remember correctly. I think it's six. Four, yeah. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, fifty? Because there's like five inserts. Like one through five million. The sixth shot is the 50 million. Yes, and you have about 30, 40 seconds to do this. So if you start missing the ramp, if you miss the ramp more than maybe twice, you will not get the 50 million. And when the time's out, guess what? You start all over again. All over again. To me, that's what kills it. I mean, maybe I couldn't get to it a second time. Maybe Steve would know. If you get to a second time, does it keep your progress, or do you just do it again? No, you've got to start over. You've got to start over. It's all fresh. So if I reassemble the ingredients and go in a second time, I'm like saying that 14 Tomcat, that will keep track of your progress. No. It doesn't. Okay. No. You've got a 1 million now.
    90:41
    That's total shit. Yes, it is. I was just playing it. It's just like, damn, if only this had a better rule set, because the play field is not bad at all. And the funny thing is, has anyone seen like all the old Williams promo videos that are out on the Internet? They used to have all the games. I think they had them all from like Party Zone all the way to the last one. They had these promo videos that would go to, I would assume, distributors that would say, you know, how great the new game is going to be and all that. When they had Gilligan's Island. They had Bob Denver on it. No, no, they didn't have Bob Denver on it. Oh, Bob, what's his name? No, no, no. They had Ward Pemberton. the designer. And when he shows, he's going through the rules of this game. Guess how he does it? With the ball in his hand. In his hand, and the glass off. You hit this, then you hit this, and then you hit the rep, then you hit it again, then you hit it again, then you hit it again, then you hit it again. Of course you do. Because you're doing it with your hand, you idiot.
    91:40
    Yeah. Don't even put the glass on. Just use the flippers. I want to see you do it, pal. That's my takeaway from Free Play Florida. I hate Gilligan's Island. That is all.
    91:53
    So thanks, everybody, for listening this week. Thank you, Steve, for coming on. And we'll have Steve on once the game is fully released so we can get an in-behind-the-scenes. In-depth review. Hell, I might interview him at Freeplay Florida. What am I saying? Let me try that again. Freeplay Florida, really? Next year? Shut up.
    92:14
    I love Steve's little quirk. We'll leave that in. But I meant to say Texas Pinball Festival. I will be there. It's going to be exciting. I'll see. Do I have? Yeah, I can record on this thing. I think I recorded Timmy on this once. Timmy!
    92:30
    But, yep, I can't wait. I mean, it looks, I mean, unfortunately, it's probably going to be the first time I'm going to get to play it. And unfortunately, I'm going to have to wait like four months. You're killing me, Steve. It's too long. Yeah. Look at it. You can't wet the appetite and then wait four months. That's not fair. Just look at it.
    92:54
    That's funny. Just think how awesome the production are, Willie, that you can't see yet. Yes. I'm really curious. See, Bruce probably feels a similar way. I'm more interested or as interested to see what's under the play field. Yes, me too. I want to see what the mechs look like, see what the board set is, see what the cabin is going to look like. because I think Robert Mueller said, like, this isn't the production cabinet.
    93:19
    So I'm very curious to see what all that's going to look like. And first, probably even more, because he's operating the games. From a service side, he's going to want to see what this stuff looks like. So when he gets ready to put Raza on at Silver Ball Saloon, he'll be able to fix it. Right. Mm-hmm. He wants to see, like, cup holders.
    93:43
    I do. You can do it under cup holders for a bar of paint. Yeah, that would be pretty cool, actually. You just get a cup holder with the game. That would be a nice thing to throw in. Wouldn't you rather have that than a goodie bag? What is it in a goodie bag? A few rubbers? A spare plastic? A bulb? Fuses? Wouldn't you rather have, like, a cup holder? Just throwing it out there. Just throwing out the ideas. Wow. Okay, yeah. You sound like you need to go to bed. I want to.
    94:12
    Wow. I'm exhausted sounds like an offshoot of the meltdown right now yeah it is so this has been episode 137 oh god now he's going to make me want to fucking find a name now fuck see the pressure I get put under look at the pressure I get pulled under so much pressure so you like the weather out there Steve I do very much yes I figured we came from Florida get back here it's like actually it was like 50 degrees so it's not terrible It's not terrible It's actually not that bad here But being in Florida for a couple days Always makes me like You know I could get used to this I could totally get used to this And then go back home in November or December And suffer Suffer Yeah it's even worth it if you go to InDesk Oh yeah Which I'm assuming you're probably going to Flying to Palm Springs is like There's palm trees at this airport And now I have to fly back and suffer Yeah Mm-hmm.
    95:11
    Still looking. I was going to waste more air time. We're not editing this out. No, we're not editing it out for us. You're going to see what... All listeners will see what you... They'll hear what you do to me on a regular basis. It's what I get fucking done. Peer pressure. I'm fucking sick. I know who I'm going to say. You know who you're going to say? I know.
    95:36
    Okay. Thanks to everybody. we're not going to mention anyone this week except Fun With Bonus. Hi, Steve. Hi. Oh, by the way, Steve, why don't you plug your stuff? Okay, cool. I can plug my stuff. FunWithBonus.com Fun With Bonus on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube and also the Meltdown Pinball Podcast. Catch it on your favorite podcatcher.
    95:59
    Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye, Bruce. Goodbye, Cody Perez. Hold my mind, can you move me? Can you slide? Hold my mind, hold my mind You can move me if you try Hold my mind, hold my mind Guaranteed to keep you alive Oh my
    96:58
    Thank you.