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Episode 277 - Glurpin' on a Prayer

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 35m·analyzed·Aug 2, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 (batch) · $0.021

TL;DR

Multimorphic launches dual P3 games; DCC's audiobook advantage over Ender's Game analyzed.

Summary

In this episode of Eclectic Gamers Podcast, hosts Tony and Dennis discuss four recent pinball releases, focusing heavily on Multimorphic's simultaneous launch of Dungeon Crawler Carl (DCC) and Ender's Game—two games sharing identical mechanical layouts but different themes, artwork, and licensing restrictions. They praise DCC's use of Jeff Hays' acclaimed audiobook narration as a major advantage over Ender's Game, analyze the innovative disc-loop mechanic, and discuss pricing ($12,350 with platform for DCC). The episode also covers broader industry trends including P3 value proposition, module-swapping concerns, and DCC's unexpected cultural penetration beyond traditional pinball audiences via LitRPG fandom.

Key Claims

  • DCC's licensing prevents playing DCC on an Ender's Game machine, despite identical mechanics

    high confidence · Dennis states this was noted by Multimorphic, though he expresses skepticism about whether this door will ever open

  • DCC costs $12,350 with platform; $5,250 for kit only; Ender's Game kit is cheaper due to lacking sculpts

    high confidence · Tony provides explicit pricing figures for both games

  • Jeff Hays' audiobook narration is crucial to DCC's appeal and is superior to any voice work attempt

    high confidence · Dennis: 'Very, very few times when I would ever say that the audiobook is so superior that it is the better option for everybody... DCC is... 100% listen to the audiobooks'

  • DCC is outselling Ender's Game in the market

    medium confidence · Dennis notes 'DCC is the hotness right now' and 'from what I've heard preliminarily, sales-wise, yes, it's the one that's performing'

  • Ender's Game rules are further along in development than DCC rules

    medium confidence · Dennis reports hearing that Ender's Game rules are further along while DCC 'they're almost done with book one in it'

  • Rumor: Ender's Game was the original planned game; DCC rights were acquired mid-development

    medium confidence · Dennis: 'The rumor mill is that Ender's Game was the game. And then as they were going along, they realized they could get the rights to DCC'

  • DCC will sell 'ten times more' than Ender's Game

    medium confidence · Dennis predicts dramatically higher sales for DCC based on licensing and voice actor advantages

  • Stumbler Pinball created the sculpts for DCC and is 'very respected' as a mod maker

    high confidence · Tony notes Stumbler Pinball created the decorative sculpts that justify DCC's premium pricing over Ender's Game

  • Some P3 owners report connectivity and module-swap issues when changing between games

Notable Quotes

  • “Dungeon Crawler Carl is one of those... I would say, the one time where I would say 100% listen to the audiobooks. Jeff Hays completely changes it.”

    Dennis @ ~0:20:00 — Core argument for why DCC's licensing of the audiobook narrator is its defining advantage over Ender's Game

  • “I don't think I can own this one because I would be talking too much and I would lose my voice. Glurp, glurp.”

    Tony @ ~0:45:00 — Demonstrates DCC's immersive voice work and iconic catchphrases creating an 'obnoxious factor' that enhances engagement

  • “The simple fact that these fun little stories that are in the lit RPG style have hit and shot up so much that it's become such an overarching large event is so unexpected.”

    Dennis @ ~0:50:00 — Reflects on DCC's broader cultural penetration and unexpected appeal beyond traditional RPG/pinball audiences

  • “I guarantee you, they will sell ten times more DCC.”

    Dennis @ ~0:37:00 — Strong market prediction favoring DCC over Ender's Game based on multiple factors including IP appeal and voice acting

  • “If it's a licensor issue, I just don't... I feel like they've left this door open, but I don't have any confidence that this door will ever actually be open.”

    Dennis @ ~0:06:00 — Skepticism about whether licensing restrictions preventing cross-game play will be resolved in future

  • “You're going to look at giant clear spinning disc[s]... it's very dominating... unfortunately... it doesn't feel like the world of Dungeon Crawler Carl when I look at that piece.”

    Dennis @ ~0:26:00 — Critique of the disc-loop mechanic's aesthetic integration despite mechanical functionality

  • “The ramp had to pop up and down... there was a cheapness, that kind of, like it felt flimsy... when you glanced off of it or tapped it, the whole thing shook in a weird way.”

    Tony @ ~0:28:00 — Identifies mechanical durability issues with Portal's pop-up ramp, contrasting with DCC's spinning disc design

Entities

MultimorphiccompanyDungeon Crawler CarlgameEnder's GamegameMattpersonJeff HayspersonStephen SilverpersonIan HarrowerpersonBrad Albrightperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Multimorphic released two P3 games (Dungeon Crawler Carl and Ender's Game) simultaneously with identical mechanics but different themes and licensing

    high · Both games feature same playfield layout, disc mechanic, but distinct artwork, sculpts, and licensing restrictions

  • $

    market_signal: Clear market separation forming between DCC and Ender's Game despite technical equivalence, driven by IP brand strength and audiobook narration quality

    high · Dennis: 'DCC is the hotness right now... from what I've heard preliminarily, sales-wise, yes, it's the one that's performing... they will sell ten times more DCC'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Novel 360-degree double-level spinning disc with ball pathing and diversion mechanics introduced in both DCC and Ender's Game

    high · Hosts discuss disc rotating to represent 'Ball of Swine' mode, changing playfield layout dynamically, with visual integration challenges

  • ?

    product_strategy: DCC cannot be played on Ender's Game machines due to licensor restrictions, preventing cross-game modularity despite hardware equivalence

    high · Dennis: 'purportedly due to licensing, you cannot buy Ender's Game and play DCC on it'

  • ?

    machine_intel: Rumor that Ender's Game was original planned title, with DCC rights acquired mid-development, explaining rule maturity differences

    medium · Dennis: 'The rumor mill is that Ender's Game was the game. And then as they were going along, they realized they could get the rights to DCC. And that's why they're two.'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.064

0:00
Welcome to the Collective Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, August 2nd. This is episode 277. I'm Tony. I'm Dennis. I had to think about it for a second. I know. It's been a long two weeks. Yeah. It's been. It's been rough. Four releases since the last episode? Yeah.
0:34
In pinball. Oh my gosh. That doesn't even count the video game stuff. There's so much pinball this time. It's like, you know, maybe spread this stuff out throughout the year. Let's go ahead and get a little. I mean, two of the games are from the same manufacturer, so. Two of the games are the same game. I mean, the rules are different, but we'll get into that. They have different colors. They do. One of them has much superior voice acting. I mean, it's all a matter of perspective, but there's a bias there based off of some audiobook leanings, I would say, Tony, to be fair.
1:11
But anyway, intros. Anything? Working on anything? Playing anything? The newest DLC for Grim Dawn came out, so I've been playing around with that, and I don't know. At some point I might beat the game and get into the end game and all the stuff where the actual gameplay is supposed to be, but I keep getting like half to three quarters of the way through and I start seeing a bunch of equipment that I get that aren't good for the character I'm playing. I'm like, man, that'd be really good on this other character type. So I put it in the shared box and then I create a new character and I start playing it. It's like, I want to try a different character that plays differently. Yeah, I mean, it happens. It happens. It's got you hooked. That's what they do. It's got the hooks into my soul. They're ripping you apart.
2:05
Yeah. I actually this morning was working on Final Fantasy XVI for a little bit, and I had this in the video game section, but I'll pull it up here. But one of our Patreon members, which you can support us at patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers, He left a comment on Patreon about that, about Final Fantasy, so I was going to go ahead and mention it now. Where he said, Final Fantasy XVI was so good, I first got it just to have something to check out on my new fancy TV. But the character story, gameplay, etc. got me hooked, and I must have gotten 90% of the trophies. Nice. Thank you, butts. This is interesting because that's the counter-argument to there. We have another person on our EGP Discord, which we have a link in the show if you want to join our Discord. Who hates Final Fantasy XVI. And when I said I started playing it, it said I warned you about that game. So, you see, we got both sides of the coin. From what I've heard, it's very different than a lot of the other Final Fantasies. Oh, yes. It's a very different style of game. Yes. Yeah. And in a lot of ways, you could almost say it's not Final Fantasy. But there are lots of, I mean, I just killed like 20 Chocos in it today. They were wild Chocos. And so I domesticated them. You domesticated them. With death.

medium confidence · Dennis: 'sometimes people report issues with connectivity or problems when they do the module swaps'

  • DCC was shown at San Diego Comic-Con, expanding visibility beyond traditional pinball audience

    medium confidence · Dennis notes 'They showed this at San Diego Comic-Con' as evidence of LitRPG fandom crossover appeal

  • “It is as family friendly as a story where a 10 year old murders three people can be.”

    Dennis @ ~0:35:00 — Dark humor about Ender's Game's mature themes despite being marketed as family-friendly

  • “He's got multiple P3s... I believe this will be his fourth... If you want the different art... You see the logic?”

    Dennis @ ~0:41:00 — Reveals serious collectors buying multiple P3 platforms purely for different aesthetic presentations

  • “Since the release of... Weird Al, but really with Portal and now with DCC, I definitely see reasons to purchase the P3 more than I used to.”

    Dennis @ ~0:42:00 — Indicates recent P3 releases have raised the platform's value proposition and collector appeal

    • Stumbler Pinball
    person
    Colin MacAlpineperson
    Josh Cooglerperson
    Wesley Johnsonperson
    Orson Scott Cardperson
    Luciano Fleitasperson
    Tonyperson
    Dennisperson
    Zachperson
    Portalgame
    Weird Algame
    P3product
    The Pinball Showmedia
    Flip N Out Pinballcompany
    Eclectic Gamers Podcastmedia
    San Diego Comic-Conevent
  • ?

    collector_signal: Serious collectors buying multiple P3 platforms (4+ units) for aesthetic variety despite modular swappability

    medium · Dennis notes one collector planning his fourth P3 specifically for DCC's art package; others avoid module swapping due to reported connectivity issues

  • ?

    technology_signal: P3 users reporting connectivity and module-swap issues that incentivize purchasing multiple hardware units

    medium · Dennis: 'sometimes people report issues with connectivity or problems when they do the module swaps'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Large clear spinning disc in DCC criticized for visual dominance and poor thematic integration despite strong mechanical functionality

    high · Dennis: 'it's very dominating... it doesn't feel like the world of Dungeon Crawler Carl when I look at that piece. But... playability has to be paramount'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: DCC rules reported as incomplete (still in book one) while Ender's Game rules much further along in development

    medium · Dennis: 'they're almost done with book one in it. But so that's kind of... working on the later stuff'

  • ?

    community_signal: Dungeon Crawler Carl LitRPG fandom showing unexpected cultural penetration beyond traditional gaming audiences into mainstream pop culture

    medium · Dennis discusses DCC's presence at San Diego Comic-Con and how author Matt Deniman receives fan interactions in public places; LitRPG gaining 'higher level of popularity' than expected

  • ?

    product_concern: Portal's pop-up ramp experienced structural fliminess issues; DCC's disc appears more robust in comparison

    medium · Tony describes Portal ramp as 'flimsy,' 'shook in a weird way' when touched, contrasting with DCC disc which 'looked fine' from video

  • $

    market_signal: Recent P3 releases (Weird Al, Portal, DCC) raising perceived value and collector interest in the modular platform

    medium · Dennis: 'Since the release of... Weird Al, but really with Portal and now with DCC, I definitely see reasons to purchase the P3 more than I used to'

    • 3:22
    It's my way. It's the way I chose to play. You wanted to cook some wings. It's the way I chose to play my character. You wanted to cook some wings. Yeah, I was hoping that would be their drops. It would be like nuggies. Choco nuggies. It's like, I want choco nuggies. Faraga! Yes.
    3:38
    I did use fire spells to cook them because that's what makes them tasty. Oh, man. Well, speaking of tasty. The dunes. Every time I think of Faraga, I think of the Dunes on Final Fantasy XI because Faraga is the first AOE spell they just get. And normally in the Dunes, they would level up and they would get it. They're like, yeah, Faraga! And then everybody's running. Yep, because they aggroed everything. They aggroed everything.
    4:08
    Yeah, Dunes was an experience. Oh, yeah. Senior experiences. So, Pinball, as we noted in the introduction, Tony, we got a lot going on here. Let's go ahead and kind of go in the order. I learned about them, and I think this is the order they were released. I'm not entirely sure regarding American Pinball, so we'll kind of get back to that, because in a way, what's old is new again when we talk about that game. But let's start with Multimorphic, which has launched Dungeon Crawler Carl and Ender's Game. So just to be clear, these are two completely independent games, but they are the same basic layout. They have the same underlying mechanics. It's easier to see the mechanics and how they function on Ender's Game because there's a lot more sculpt work that is involved decoratively in Dungeon Crawler Carl. So to not tie my tongue, I will just start calling it DCC.
    5:02
    I don't know, that's what the people call it, but that's what I want to call it because I'm trying to say Dungeon Crawler Carl every single time.
    5:09
    So each kit has its own artwork, decorations, all of that. So the modules are separate, even though the underlying functionality is identical. And this one, unlike Portal, which had that extension module for the RAM, the extension module on the left, this time the ring, the disc, that is not optional. So you have to have that in order to play these games, and that's included in the pricing.
    5:41
    These, you cannot, and there's been notations at this time, but purportedly due to licensing, you cannot buy Ender's Game and play DCC on it. Even though the mechanics are identical. Really? Yes. So be aware of that and evaluate that. So I feel like they've left this door open, but I don't have any confidence that this door will ever actually be open, if that makes sense. Because if they're saying it's a licensor issue, I just don't. Yeah, if it's a licensor issue, I don't see it. But then that makes me wonder if there would, is there a different, cheaper license option that does involve getting the extension pieces that will just let you trigger that one by basically buying the license? Not yet. Maybe that's the thought that's being worked on, but not yet. Because the cheaper, so Dungeon Crawler Carl is more expensive than Inter's Game. Yes. And the reason is because of the sculpts. Which makes sense. Yes, it's got additional sculpt work, which are from Stumbler Pinball, which is a very respected mod maker, basically. So anyway, that's part of that. You cannot buy DCC without the sculpts. There's not like a cheaper way to do it. So pricing wise, it's either you buy the... Who would want it without the sculpts? Right. No, I would assume not. But again, that'd be kind of what you would be getting if you chose to save money and buy Ender's Game and then wanted to play DCC on it, for example.
    7:19
    But anyway, so that's the main stuff. I will go ahead. I don't like to bleed over with my other podcast, The Pinball Show here. But since some people I know listen to both, something that I've seen one comment on, I think I only won, but I'll go ahead and note it because I think there was another one that kind of tied to it On a different piece. So Zach and I talked about this on last week's episode, unsurprisingly, because it was a new release. And I know some were probably a bit confused because I had not watched any gameplay, any video at all, actually, of Ender's Game and DCC.
    7:54
    And when the videos came out, the video was out. And so I think people were confused why I hadn't done it, especially because I had it on Bon Jovi, which we're going to get into. So I just want to go ahead and note that certain things, because of timing, are prerecorded, and I do not work for flipping out pinball. I am not allowed to look at everything ahead of time. So because of that, I had to comment more blind than I would have liked. However, Zach and I discussed that ahead of time, and we felt it only made sense since the game was coming out the next day that we cover it. And obviously I had to work from a certain position of ignorance, whereas he knew more because he is a distributor. Now for Multimorphic, he is now distributed for them. So he had more knowledge than me, and that's why I come across as kind of like, I don't know anything except about the book. I also saw some people discussing on one of them, like what books, like they didn't know what books I had read. I've done the first two. Yes. I'm ready for book three, but I have not done book three. So that's where I'm at. So I'm pretty early in the DCC experience. Yes. So let's talk about DCC because I figure, well, actually, I have to hedge. Let me ask you this before we go into it. Because I know as a kid you loved Ender's Game. Which one of these licenses do you think is actually better? I'm air quoting that. Better. Because DCC is the hotness right now. DCC is the hotness. But Ender's Game is beloved.
    9:23
    Is it? I thought so. It's liked, but I don't know that it's ever had the same. I don't think the whole series is, but the first book. I don't even know that the first book has the same level of popularity. Okay. It's good. It's enjoyable. I've read the entire series, and it is one of those series where the later books are very different than the first book, at least the later primary books, and then there's the whole Shadow series.
    9:56
    But I think DCC is the better pull for this. I think so too. And from what I've heard preliminarily, sales-wise, yes, it's the one that's performing. I think it's definitely the better pull and the better play. And if I was going to be dropping money, it's the one I would drop money on.
    10:15
    So these are both three flipper games, by the way. So DCC, obviously, though I know there's other media in the works, this is unsurprisingly entirely based off of Matt Deniman's books. But the key thing is, I'd say, based off of the audiobooks because that's the big thing. You mentioned the call-outs. They have Jeff Hayes. And that's the important thing. Yes. If they didn't have Jeff Hayes, it wouldn't be worth it. Right.
    10:47
    There's very, very few times when I would ever say that the audiobook is so superior that it is the better option for everybody. Mm-hmm. Dungeon Crawler Carl is one of those. DCC is, I would say, the one time where I would say 100% listen to the audiobooks. Jeff Hayes completely changes it. It's, I mean, again, having heard the first two, it's a very enjoyable experience. And most of the pinball internet, Tony, unsurprisingly, agrees with you about this. Like, this is the win here. And that's probably part of the reason I would say why it's going to be advantaged over Ender's Game is because Jeff Hayes' voices are beloved and no one has any voices in their head for Ender's Game except maybe from the movie from whenever. Which the kids were aged up so much in that movie versus – because in the books, aren't they like six? They were like teenagers. They're not that young. Aren't they like six months old? Yeah. They're sperm. And eggs. Yes. Like the battle school is the sperm and the egg coming together. Yes. But no, they're like 10. Okay.
    12:04
    All right. Where, yeah, right. In the movie, they're like 16. In DCC, another noteworthy. Quick thing. What? How much does this mess you up? Because you've only listened to the first two books so far. So on the Translight, there's characters I don't know. You don't know any of those. You know three of these characters. Yeah, no, I know Mongo. That's like I said, you know three of these characters, maybe four. Yeah, I thought the lizard thing in the lower left is the juicer. No. Okay, then I thought wrong.
    12:41
    No. I couldn't remember what the juicers looked like in my head. By the end of book two, we've met vaguely. Yeah. Like two or other of these people. Yeah. I don't know the floating head. I don't know the ice Tinkerbell. Yeah. No, I don't know most of these. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
    13:02
    I know Ender. Oh, wait. That's the other backlist. I put the images side by side in our internal stuff.
    13:09
    Oh, and let me go ahead and note for people who want to know more about this. There is a link in the show notes to the Kineticist article that covers both of these. So you can check that out if you want to see some images and all of that. So anyway, back to DCC. Now, I didn't get Jeff Hayes. Another thing that we talked about ahead of time when the rumor was floating around here about what would happen if Multimorphic had this, it's mature. There's the ability to beep the bad language, but you are allowed to play with the full audiobook experience. Good. I know that was a major concern. It was. And they've noted that there is a lot of adult language in the game. So be aware of that if you're normally used to letting your kids play P3. Yeah. There is a topper in the works. Nothing that I've seen on that yet. Credit-wise, in terms of who's worked on this game, so Creative Direction was handled by Stephen Silver and Ian Harrower, who have done a couple of other pieces. I like most of the stuff I can think of that they've worked on. Wesley Johnson on rules. I'm not I'm not familiar with I'm not saying he hasn't done rules before. I just they're not coming to my head if he has obviously voice work by Jeff Hayes, Matt Kern on sound software is being handed by Ian, Josh Kugler and Michael Ocean. The cabinet art was done by Luciano Fletes. That's the book cover artist for the DCC series, like the written book covers. But the playfield art was done by Brad Albright. And then I already mentioned that the sculpts in the game are by Stumbler. So this game cost, if you have to buy the platform, is $12,350 US. If you just need the kit, it's $5,250.
    14:56
    Key elements in the game are what is called disc loop. That's that extension thing. So that's the 360-degree double-level disc. It has a target bank, a kickback, it has moving shot paths, and it has a cannon that I believe is user-controlled.
    15:13
    There's a six-ball mana stack that allows for multiple ball releases in the back module. You can see Mongo on the playfield. That cage is bashable, and it's got a magnetic ball lock inside of it. And then Princess Donut Sculpt, eyes can change colors. She's got like a little glowy LED effect behind her hip sunglasses. So anyway, we're not a video-based medium, so being able to go and discuss that. I don't know if you've looked at much in the way of video. I have looked at some watching that spinning disc in action, and it's interesting because obviously that's relatively close to the flippers. Yes. And it's not only there's shots that go through that, and then the top of it also serves to divert and be ball pathing depending on how it's rotated. Yeah, and it's interesting because when I first saw it, I thought, wow, that blocks a huge portion of the thing. But it actually doesn't look like it blocks as much of the playfield as it looks like from looking at the actual, like the circle. Right. Yeah. From what I saw, I do assume, I mean, anything closer to the flippers means more danger. So if you brick something, obviously you have less time to react. It's just physics. So that aspect could mean that the game plays harder perhaps than some. But I've never really associated P3 games for being easy. Like, you know, spooky games often at shows have pretty long ball times like some of them did, like Scooby-Doo did, Looney Tunes did, I remember for me. So the main thing about the disc, so like engineering wise, what a pretty cool concept, right? Rotates around, does different things. The one thing, and I noticed it actually less with Ender, and we'll get into Ender, you know, they give it a slightly different name and stuff, but versus this one is, you're really looking at the engineering here, like it's not, it doesn't look good like the sculpts. Perhaps that's what I'm trying to say. So like you've got some sculpted element there like where if you zoom in on the images, guys, and there are close-up photos that are available that you can go and check out. Like in the middle of it underneath where some of the stuff's happening, that's decorated. But the bottom line is you still just have this giant clear spinning disc. That's just a giant clear spinning disc. And there's nothing about giant clear spinning discs in Dungeon Crawler, Carl. Well, maybe in the later books. I guess you have to tell me that. And the first two, no. Now, one of the things that's kind of cool is, so the art, the digital art will change on the different levels, as you would expect, as being able to do with P3. But one of the things from the first book that Joel and Jared, who streamed for Flippin' Out Pinball, I watched part of their discussion about the, they went to one of the shows and they played this. So the ball of swine is a mode.
    18:13
    And that thing, like, it doesn't constantly spin, but it will, like, rotate several times to represent the spinning ball of swine. Neat. Yeah, I thought that's a really cool. That's neat. It reminds me of, like, they have P3. This is something I think P3 has done pretty well in a lot of their recent games, going back to Weird Al. So not even necessarily all that reason, but like having certain modes where it just feels like like a really cool, immersive idea. They did that with Portal, too, like the faith plates and stuff. So just like so like some of the uses for this, I think, are really cool and really well tied to the books. That said, the giant clear disk thing visually, I find it's very dominating. Yes, it's very dominating, and unfortunately, because we do need to see beneath it, because it's also trying to do, like, I'll do full Jurassic Park Clever Gal for the ball pathing on top of it. Like, what a cool idea. But because it is a giant clear piece of plastic, it doesn't feel like the world of Dungeon Crawler Carl when I look at that piece. But again, playability has to be paramount. And as we know with the P3, they have to mount everything on top. They can't hide things underneath the same way because there's the screen. I will say this, from the videos I've seen, looks to be more solid than that ramp.
    19:41
    Yes. So the ramp, you're talking about the ramp on Portal. Yeah, the ramp on Portal. And I think because the ramp had to pop up and down, one of the things what Tony's, and you obviously correct me if I'm wrong, But when we experienced it, and like the ramp shot fine, like it worked fine. But there was a, I'll use the word cheapness, that kind of, like it felt flimsy. Yeah, because when you glanced off of it or tapped it, the whole thing shook in a weird way. And we're not talking like home pin, we used a plastic disposable water bottle to make our ramp. Like we don't mean that. We just mean – because it couldn't be mounted at the base with screws because normally you've got the flap and it's screwed down. Right, and that was the whole issue. And so it was very jittery, a flimsy kind of feel, but it worked fine, at least the one we played worked fine. So yeah, I think in this case because it's not having to – it just spins. It's not constantly lifting and such. I would assume that's probably not such a – again, from the video I have now seen of the disc spinning, it looked fine. And it looks like I want to try it. It looks like it might be a lot of fun. I'm curious. I saw I'm not sure how many different entrances. I know I think I saw three rotations of where it would stop and give you a new thing. I don't know if there are more than three or not, but that was what I picked up on. Yeah, no, I know. I think I'm really interested to give it a try.
    21:10
    So Ender's Game, let's go ahead and jump into that, because, again, we're dealing with the same layout. So this is entirely based on the Orson Scott card book, not the movie that I mentioned earlier. So it is fully family friendly. But as you know, as a person who's I've not read it, it does have dark. It is as family friendly as a story where a 10 year old murders three people can be. Yeah, I actually had a summary I went to because I was trying to explain the book to Zach and so I went and – because I've not read it. Yeah. But I just knew the movie story and from talking to you about it before and some other – my other friends back in school, in primary school and such who read it because this came out like in 85. So this was out when we were little. Oh, yeah. And and but then I had a I do me. I said, summarize it from the perspective, though, that that it's not healthy to like this book.
    22:13
    And I very much enjoyed doing this. I could the robot actually almost gained sentience, I think, doing that part because it's like, well, common criticisms are that that Ender doesn't need any social skills and it just projects a world that, oh, if you're smart enough, everyone should just follow you. You conveniently, he never has to have any guilt over anything. He's a chosen child, but he gets to murder with impunity. But it's all guilt-free because it's never his fault.
    22:42
    And I was like, yes, yes. I don't know that it's guilt-free. He has some issues. Right, right. And the movie got into that too, got into the kind of the burden. But they've kind of taken some of that element, which I don't think the movie did a very good job about. But in terms of some of the mechs and stuff, let me go and get through the credits first real quick. So Stephen Silver is also a creative director on this game, but so is Josh Coogler. Rules are being done by Colin McAlpine, very successful competitive player who's done rules for them before. Music is Aaron Williams and Paul Ferrer. Sound design, Glenn. Glenn, I don't know how to say your last name. So I'm not going to Glenn W. I'm not going to risk mispronouncing it. Glenn has done a lot of audio for all sorts of like podcasts and stuff. And I know he's done a few homebrews as well. Software is Josh Coogler, Steve Scheuer and Ian Harrower. Brad Albright also did the artwork here. And there are a whole bunch of people who contributed voices MSRP for this game with the platform is 11 U The kit is So you see the price differential because of the lack of sculpts And there a distinct lack of sculpts here But all the same mechanical functionality So there the captive ball balance mech which is towards the back You can kind of see it back there in the middle area This is where in Dungeon Crawler Carl, I think, and I may misspeak on this, I think that's where you're managing your mana and stuff. But in this, it's a balance where you're trying to balance between Peter's aggression and Valentine's compassion because Ender's supposed to balance both of those traits. And that was sort of touched on in the movie, and I assume the book did a much better job where you understand Ender's brother is super aggro, and his sister is super kind, and it's like he's supposed to – neither of those are what that world needs, this Starship Trooper-esque world of taking and turning children into killing machines. So anyway, one of those things. The disc cannon is what I believe they're calling the what was the spinning disc in DCC. And you have this bashable fight ring instead of the Mongo cage with the magnetic ball lock. So everything's got a different name. Overall, it's been recommended. I would agree to if you want to better understand the shots and stuff, looking at Ender is better because it's easier to see things because it doesn't have as much. Right.
    25:26
    Also, I can't confirm this, but I can say other people have been reporting Enders Games rules much further along. DCC, my understanding from the show that it's at or was at is they're almost done with book one in it.
    25:45
    But so that's kind of and they're working on they're working on the later. Yeah, working on the later on the later stuff. So anyway, we already talked about how DCC is the clear winner between the two just in terms of the community in terms of the fact that you've wisely relied upon the voice actor who does the audiobooks, which are beloved, and you had to do everything kind of from scratch with Ender art-wise between the two. I'm not enamored with the book art of DCC personally, but I think that looks better overall as a package to me than what they've done with Ender's Game. I think it does. Ender's Game is very... I don't know, it feels more cartoony than I expected, but I don't know. Now, the rumor mill is that Ender's Game was the game. And then as they were going along, they realized they could get the rights to DCC. And that's why they're two.
    27:02
    And it would also be why Ender's Game's rules are further along, supposedly. That would make complete sense to me. And I guarantee you, they will sell ten times more DCC. Hmm. Yeah. Do you think they sell a lot of both to the same people? Like, will people buy two of basically the same kit because they have to apply to it? Surely not. I couldn't imagine it, but I wanted to ask because, you know, there are people that will. I'm not saying it will not happen.
    27:35
    There's not going to be a lot of people that are willing to shell out that kind of money to have the same stuff. Yeah. So we do on the pinball show, we have a happy hour hangout we do monthly with some of our Patreon members as one of the perks. And one of the collectors is a heavy collector. I won't name him because... Yeah. But he's got multiple P3s. And that's what he's doing for DCC. But he didn't say he was getting Ender's Game. Multiple P3s. I believe this will be his fourth. Wow.
    28:14
    That defeats the whole purpose of P3. You would think that. But at the same time, the weird Alcab looks good. If you want the different art. The border cab is good. If you want the different art. Yeah. So I can see it. You see the logic? I can see the logic. The other logic, as I understand it, is it doesn't like changing the modules. That makes sense. And sometimes people report issues with connectivity or problems when they do the module swaps. So if you don't swap the modules, you are less likely to disrupt them. Yeah, I will say since the release of, I mean, starting with Weird Al, but really with Portal and now with DCC, I definitely see reasons to purchase the P3 more than I used to. Yeah, so does it – well, actually there's a user question we'll get to later in the emails that will let us go down that rabbit hole more. But I agree. Like we've liked a number of P3 games. Yes, there's been a number of P3 games that I've liked but nothing ever enough that it would put it into a consideration for purchase. I mean pricing-wise these games are on par with where a lot of games are in today's world. I mean, this is in that middle tier, what they call the LE tier, basically, of JJP. Again, DCC, $12,350 with the platform.
    29:51
    So pricing-wise, it does feel like it's in line with other premium offerings from various brands. I think – I don't remember where Stern's standard premiums are at this point. It's around that, I think. It's around the LEs or that, one or the other. Anyway, so they're not – yeah, it's – and the value on saving on the kits, I mean, again, it's a balance thing, right? So $5,250 to buy DCC's kit, just the kit, okay. I mean, some of us, like me, were around long enough to remember when we could get Stern Pros for less than that, but that's not today, right? Stern Pros are now like $7,000. So you're not saving as much on the kits as you used to. It used to come across as a pretty good value buy, but it's still cheaper than buying entire systems, and I think that's the key thing that they've had to maintain and have been able to do that.
    30:48
    Yeah, I look forward to playing this at the next show that we get to. I'm curious about the rules. D.C.C. is so beloved as a property at this point. I want to ask you before we move on to the next game. Do you think, though, that if, hypothetically, if Ender's game's rules are just way better, that it turns the tide and Ender ends up selling better? No. I mean, I don't. No, just with the sculpts and the art package on the machine and everything else, there's no way.
    31:29
    Because for the times when the machine is just setting, it's going to look better. Right. I also, I think a lot of it is, you know, I'll describe it in my instance as the obnoxious factor. Like when I play Godzilla and my ball drains and it does a little bonus thing and I gotta go when it roars. Scree onk. Like to me, people are going to play DCC and they're going to be like, bro, and blurp blurp. Blurp blurp. You're going to say it. Anyone who listens to the audio books is going to say this stuff when it's said in the game. That's what makes it so smart. That's so powerful to people. For obnoxious people like me who cannot shut up.
    32:16
    100%, 100% I agree. When I get my bonuses in Star Trek, I still go and do my teleporter with it when it does the teleporter sound. Yeah, this one, I don't think I can own this one because I would be talking too much and I would lose my voice. So it's not healthy. That's my point. Glurp, glurp. I will say, I've seen several interviews with Matt Deniman, and he has some of the funniest fan interactions.
    32:56
    Some of them are just hilarious. And the sheer amount of times he says he'll be somewhere, like, in an airport, and he'll just hear somebody screaming, glurp, glurp at him from halfway across the terminal. Yeah, that's a tough life. I mean, but here's the thing. This is not pinball related, except for just the tangent of us talking about DCC. But the simple fact that these fun little stories that are in the lit RPG style have hit and shot up so much that it's become such an overarching large event is so unexpected. This isn't like Stephen King putting out a new book or something like that. This has become its whole own little thing that has rocketed wider and beyond even the huge popularity that we've seen in the Romantic-style books in the last few years and all of that. This has gone to even a higher level of popularity where it shot out everywhere. It seems to be pulling people who normally don't read this style of stuff or normally aren't interested in this kind of thing. So it's pulling them from a much wider base, which means this is for a pinball machine. It's also going to have people who don't normally fall into the pinball community who are at least going to be seeing this. I mean, they showed this at San Diego Comic-Con. So there is a certain level of visibility here that doesn't always happen with machines. So it will be interesting to see.
    35:00
    I think there's a very, very real chance this will be their best-selling P3 game. Really? I've wondered, because Weird Al had that pandemic surge. It did. He's more popular. It's the only one that I can think of that it's going to be a fight for, though. Okay. I don't think Portal or any— Portal's so great on the theme immersion. It is. Oh, no, it's wonderful, but I don't think it's the same level of interest. I get it. Here's where I push back on one aspect. I agree about—you've raised some really good points about all the attention, Comic-Con, all these people looking at this. There's not a lot of – there isn't really any DCC memorabilia. There's like swag that people are putting together. People don't have shrines to DCC in their house. You're wrong. I'm not wrong. I'm always right. You're wrong. That's why I host this show. You haven't been to a bookstore in a while, have you? Apparently not.
    35:53
    There's a difference between buying Glurp Glurp stickers and buying $12,000 things. This isn't Star Wars, and that's where I'm going to push a little bit. I will say that that is a valid point.
    36:10
    But you're also talking about the kind of fandoms where going out and dumping $5,000 on Lego sets is nothing. Sure. It's the same groups. Okay. Well, I mean, we'll see with the sales. Yeah, and that's the thing is we will see, and that's where my curiosity is. I don't think they've put out anything other than Weird Al that might outsell this. Okay. And Weird Al also had the bump because, like you said, pandemic.
    36:44
    This is not really Pinball related per se, but I'll ask it since the context of the popularity. How much of this is Matt Deniman is that good of an author and how much of this is Jeff Hayes carries this? Jeff Hayes carries it. 100%. Yeah.
    37:00
    That's what I think too. I've read a bunch. I've read many of Matt Deniman's other stuff. He does do some really interesting stuff. And if you want to do something that is just raw horror, like full-on body horror thriller, like messed up, his kaiju battlefield surgeon is raw body horror insanity. But it's one of those things that, yeah, Jeff Hayes takes this to the next level.
    37:40
    Yep, I think so too. I think without the audiobook, this being what it is, the whole thing wouldn't, it'd be just another lit RPG series. I think a lot of people probably realize this. Matt Deniman didn't invent a new genre. This genre has been around a long time. And one might argue he's not even the best at it. Yeah. But Jeff Hayes is the best.
    38:07
    Oh, yeah. I mean, Jeff Hayes has rapidly become my favorite narrator. Mm-hmm. But, yeah, no, I mean, I think without Jeff Hayes elevating this, it would be a very good high-end lit RPG series, but not to the level it is, and I don't think it would have the reach outside of that group like it does now. Okay. Well, we got other games to cover. It can't all be the Multimorphic Show. So let us jump over to Barrels of Fun, which did not get Jeff Hayes and did not get DCC, even though a lot of people were hoping, given that one of the designers for Barrels is such a huge fan. They instead have revealed Bon Jovi Pinball. I have a link in the show notes to a Kinesis article about this. Designed by David Van Ness, art by Johnny Crap, Phil Grimaldi is on rules. Game has several key features. It has 17 Bon Jovi songs. The main mech in the game is a heart and dagger magnetic ball catch and diverter. Think kind of like the ring from Lord of the Rings or the ring thing from Rush, but it actually like changes levels and things like that. There is like a ball save thing called the Crowd Surf Jump Ramp at the left out lane where there's a flipper down there and you can flip and it will fling the ball into the air and back into play. There is a Steel Horse three ball lock. There's a Crowd Amp Up Loop captive ball that has a spinner inside of it. Game is a four flipper game. They did not use the standard flippers at the base of the game. They actually are using lightning flippers like from some of those 90s Williams games. Really? And also the two mini flippers, including the one that does the crowd surf that I mentioned.
    40:05
    Production-wise, a little hard to explain, so I'll try my best. We've not talked about the Barrels Reserve membership program that they launched recently, but it has an influence on this. Think kind of like Spooky Fang Club. You remember Fang Club? I do. I think we talked about it briefly years and years ago. So this game has a 700 game cap. However, it's a soft cap because of how the reserve program functions. What the reserve program does is for those that pay the membership fee into the reserve, if Bon Jovi sells out within seven days, reserve members are then given an additional seven days to put an order in. So it is possible to have more than 700 games, but only if it sells, quote unquote, sells out in the first week. And then after another week, you will know what the true final, they will know what the true final is. Yeah, it's not going to happen. So I don't think so in this case. The game is priced at $12,000. So I did watch gameplay of this. I've heard there's even been more that I have not been able to consume. Playability-wise, reaction has been pretty positive from what I've seen. And for people who have watched extensive, more extensive play on it in terms of how it shoots, what's been. And I think the layout actually has some pretty interesting elements to it.
    41:24
    The criticism has primarily been a little bit surprising given Johnny Crap's involvement, I would say. Art, there's a lot of criticism. I'd say a little bit on the play field and maybe a lot on the trans light.
    41:37
    Tony, would you like to opine? No, go ahead. Go ahead. No? It's not great. Okay. You heard it here. We're going to go to Shirt Piner. I'm trying to be very... It's not great. Dash, Tony.
    41:52
    I'm trying... The Transite's rough. I do like the apron and the whole soundboard thing that they have going on with that. Yeah, no, that's kind of cool. Part... The heart dagger thing. All right, it's... I'm okay that it's derivative to an extent, And that it lifts and does levels kind of like how the Dune Worm does is nice touch. It's so hard because it's like right in the same spot that Rush had their magnetic grab. Right. It's not exactly there, but you know what I mean. It's over in that center right. It's in the same. Yeah, it's in the – See, here's the thing is I actually – I really like them having that as the speaker grill cutouts. I think that looks good. I think it's used in too many places. Oh, okay. Kind of like when Wonka came out and they kept using the same picture of Wonka everywhere. Right. That was just ripped off the DVD cover. I mean, that part was like the added salt that you never forgave them for. That's true. But no, the art is nothing special to me. And again, like I said, I think the translate looks terrible. So what do you think about the decision to do Bon Jovi? Barrows has never done a band pin. They've been known as the World Under Glass Masters. It's like them and Spooky are the, well, it's getting a little tight now because JJP's been getting a lot of credit for all their World Under Glass. But Labyrinth took everyone by storm when it came out. No one knew it was coming. And then Dune came out. There was more people knowing it was coming. No one knew about Winchester, though. Obviously, that was an unlicensed theme. A lesser known licensed theme. And then there's Bon Jovi, which some people have speculated that there has been more notable, especially because this came out like the day after DCC and Ender's Game. And OK, most people aren't talking about Ender's Game, but DCC people are talking about. We just got done spending like 30 minutes on DCC. Bon Jovi was a surprise, and some are speculating that it's a surprise aspect where people haven't allowed this to sit as a rumor. That is part of why a lot of people are saying this is a bad choice. Separate from the art. They just don't like that it's Bon Jovi.
    44:04
    I think a lot of people, myself included, had hoped with the coming of Foo that maybe we were going to move beyond Dad Rock.
    44:18
    Yes, I've wondered this as well. If it's just Bon Jovi is just a little too old to begin the training. I mean, it fits right. What were you expecting? So what, Nirvana?
    44:30
    Anything. Something from the 90s. You got Bon Jovi. Something more 90s core I feel like would have been a great, better choice. Yes, a Nirvana, a Soundgarden, something. Are we going to name anything that isn't sad?
    44:51
    All they do is sing sad stuff. You're right. I mean, if we're going to get weird, I mean, we've got it with there's an Ender's Game pen. Yeah. Why can't we get a Mighty Mighty Boss Tones pen? I mean, okay. I mean, there was like two years in there where Ska was huge. Yes, that's true. I think maybe we should just be grateful that they didn't do They Might Be Giants. That would have been great. I knew you'd have loved it. That would have been better. You'd have loved it. That would have been way better. I don't want Mammals to be a song at Pinball. It's so good. I don't want it. Don't want it.
    45:28
    So, yes, I agree. That's probably part of the pushback. Obviously, it's a very well-known name. I have heard talk that Bon Jovi wanted a pin, and so the lead, because the band's name is Bon Jovi, but there is Bon Jovi in Bon Jovi. If Bon Jovi wants it, you know, if you have someone coming, kind of like thinking back in the early days of Spooky, and it's like if Rob Zombie wants a pin, Rob Zombie gets a pin. Bon Jovi wants a pin, Bon Jovi gets a pin. So you already indicated you don't think it hits the 700, and I agree with you. I don't think it hits the 700. It's got a few more days to do it. I don't know. But I just don't see it.
    46:06
    I didn't post in our internal notes the song list. I mean, it's fine. He's well known. Yeah. And that's probably the logic in part. It's like, well, but people know, like, people like Bon Jovi's music, right? Sure. So why don't they buy this? I don't know. Do you not think the Steel Horse 3 Ball Lock will sell it?
    46:28
    You sound like you don't believe in the Steel Horse. I think maybe we'd have been better off with a Pat Benatar pin.
    46:36
    I mean, I would have enjoyed it more, but now we're starting to get into Heart. Oh, yeah. And that's, you know, Dad Rock era. It is. Zach and I have repeatedly said, where's Fleetwood Mac? Fleetwood Mac would be great. You could do just the Rumors album and have an entire Fleetwood Mac pen. No, there's all sorts of stuff.
    46:56
    Or we could get all conspiracy theoried in here. Why are there no music pens with a female artist? I mean, I'm trying to think. I mean, there's ABBA.
    47:12
    Yeah, but no one bought it. Right. Is that? Oh, do you think that's the name? I don't know. Dolly Parton had a pen. Well, she did. But it wasn't – they didn't play songs. It's too old to play songs. So, yeah, it's been – Maybe Dolly needs a new pen. You know what? I bet you it would move. I bet it would move. It would. She's absolutely beloved. It would have been like if you had done a pen with Betty White when she was still alive. Yeah. That would have moved. That would have moved pens. It wouldn't have to be – people always joked and said Golden Girls. I was like, you don't need to do Golden Girls. You need to do like what has been Hex Homebrew Bill Paxton Pinball You could have had Betty White Pinball and people would have bought that Oh yeah they would have Totally Yeah Anyway I think maybe the reaction I give them a little bit of benefit of the doubt in that I think the reaction would have been at least somewhat more positive had this not come out like a day after DCC. That hurt them badly. And what also hurt them is, and again, we've spoken very positively about what we've seen from P3 on DCC, but the bottom line is there is a large quantity of people that wanted DCC to be a barrels game and they're mad that it is not. Yeah, I understand that desire. Some of that anger is the whole digital platform screen P3 thing versus a more traditional game like Barrels, but also some of it is they knew that Carl D'Angelo was a huge DCC fan, and even if Barrels never even tried to get DCC, I think there is now this sort of narrative that he was wronged by not getting to have it. This team ball malarkey. Tell me about the malarkey. It's the same thing about the people who are so angry about Stern getting Godzilla because obviously that's such a spooky thing and Spooky loves Godzilla so much. This whole, oh, I'm angry because my specific team, they love something and they didn't get it thing, I don't understand it. It makes no sense. It's a little bit of tribalism, I suppose, like we see with consoles. Yeah, but I can understand being like, oh, that's too bad. That would have been really nice for them. But being actively angry about it, like the world has been wronged, I just don't understand it. I mean, maybe they're not that mad and they're just using that as an excuse. Like they weren't going to buy it. Like Zach believes this happens a lot, actually, is that people feel like they have to trash something if they're not going to buy it to kind of in a way justify why they're not going to buy it. I've struggled with this a little bit. I'm not saying he's wrong. I mean, he was in psychology for years. I just I guess I don't mentally understand why you would have to tear it down. You don't need to justify your decision not to buy a $12,000 thing to anyone. It's $12,000 for a toy. That's justification. I don't want to spend $12,000 on a toy. It's justification enough, and you don't owe anyone any justification. We criticize because we're providing commentary, and I feel it's important that people who are considering things consider a variety of perspectives. That's why we discuss almost everything. Otherwise, I could just be like, Bon Jovi, I'm not really feeling it. I probably just wouldn't talk about the game at all, quite honestly, if I didn't host a podcast. Oh, yeah. But we do. We'd probably have a short discussion. Yeah, yeah. But that would just be us. As pinball fans, yeah, yeah. But it'd be one of those things where we'd talk about it and we'd probably never mention it again until we were at a show and we're like, oh, hey, look, let's go try that.
    51:00
    Yeah, it's one of those things. So anyway, that's pretty much all I had to say on Bon Jovi unless you have more.
    51:11
    Not that I'm going to say. If I hear that it sells out, we may follow back up and talk a little bit about that and why we were wrong.
    51:19
    All right, last pinball game reveal. This is a quasi-reveal. It is a reveal, but it's a quasi-reveal. So American Pinball has launched a new version of Galactic Tank Force, GTF. I haven't got to say that in a while. GTF. It's called The Victory Edition. I have a link in the show notes to a NAP Arcade article about this. It is 100 units. The game has a sculpted tank that came from the art of pinball, which I do admit looks much fancier than the original tank. There's a picture of it on the flyer that I have in the internal notes. Tony, if you'd like to see it. A new apron is also included. It has a new topper. It's got blue armor. It's priced at just under $9,000 MSRP. And in addition, if you already own Galactic Tank Force, for $300 you can buy just the tank to change to the new sculpt. But they're limiting that new tank to only $150 separate from, I believe, separate from the game. So there are 150 independent tanks separate from the Victory Editions, which is another $100. And then there's no limit on the new topper, and you can buy that for $180. $1,790. So that's got to be a misprint. Obviously, that's supposed to be $1,790 because that's what toppers cost now, right? Stern toppers, Stern toppers. So, yeah, this one is sort of a more flat plasticky kind of thing. Again, you can see it. Stern would still spend two grand for a flat plastic. So but but Chris Franchi did the art on the topper. And so you've got this this blue powder coat new. And, you know, I don't have a good image of the apron for us to look at. But I mean, so the tank, I didn't have a problem with the old tank. And don't get me wrong. This tank is definitely a sharper looking tank. Like it looks like it's from Battletech or something. It's got like rivets and it's aged and maybe that's not a Battletech thing, but I get to decide what Battletech is. Apparently you do. Because I know nothing about it. And so anyway, like it's a nice looking – like as a toy, it's a nice looking toy. Here's – how do you think this does? So yeah. It's the final production run. Is it? There's only 100. I mean, yeah, but it was never hard to get a Galactic Tank Force. It feels like they had the parts to make 100 more Galactic Tank Forces and sales had dried up and they wanted to finish the run. So as we've talked about before, American Pinball got purchased like it's under new ownership. We didn't play it, but we saw when we were at Texas Pinball Festival this year, there was the new art version of Houdini. So clearly while they're getting right, because they're supposed to be doing some remakes and stuff moving forward. But clearly I assume to have cash flow through the doors. They're kind of retreading existing AP properties in the meantime.
    54:26
    I question how well, like, here's the thing for me, Galactic Tank Force. I do not believe its sales problem had anything to do with the art. Like, I don't think that. No. And in fact, Galactic Tank Force is not, I would even describe as a bad game in terms of gameplay.
    54:52
    It struggled for a few reasons. One, it came out in a very competitive month. There were like 10... It was rough. I think we played at that TPF where it was first unveiled, where it was first available for mass play. There were 10 games total, including it, that we had played for the first time. And it was just, there was so much competition. There was, and it was not at the top of that competition. And so many of them were bangers, yeah. And so because of that, it just struggled mightily. My biggest criticism, like, I would say in terms of, like, development and effort of old American pinball, Galactic Tank Force had the most. Yes. Like there's I don't know if I would say it had the most passion. Maybe Barry O's Barbecue, which not I don't like that. I do not like that game. But here here's the thing. When I when I look at Barry O's Barbecue, I truly believe that the team really meant it as a passion project to Barry and that they really cared. I think the problem with Barry O's Barbecue is that in an effort to pay tribute to Barry Osler, they ended up doing too many things that didn't work. And just like we need to put this in like there's a mech that he's known for. Here's a mech that he's known for. It's like, yeah, like and the layout was OK. But then you have a theme of hot rods and barbecue. It was a bad theme. And then the hot rods don't even feel like it's in the theme other than in the art. It's just it's disjointed. It doesn't it didn't have the polish. Galactic Tank Force had the polish, but it felt like the Steve Bushnell Atari years where everyone's smoking pot in the hot tub and coming up with concepts. Because it's like, again, even in this current flyer, what's the line at the bottom of the final battle summary? This is your last chance to save the galaxy and the ice cream. Like the moment you decided ice cream was a plot point in your galactic tank retro sci-fi space theme was the moment you lost the plot. Like the the actors in the video screen can be seen looking and reading their cue cards like that's the sort of like, is it is it kitsch? Is it not? Is it a joke? Is it not? Is it retro? Why are we listening to dubstep? Like it was too many things. It just it was disjointed. And so I think they probably had a ton of fun making it. Unfortunately, there was one too many weird things to glue together into an abomination, even though gameplay wise, I know plenty of people who really like GTF like they like how it shoots. I thought it shot okay.
    57:35
    And again, rules, like what Steve did on rules and stuff. I haven't heard criticism of the rules in GTF. It's just, what is it? I don't know. And this doesn't answer any of that. This is just like, here, we decided you needed a nicer looking tank. And I was like, well, given the kind of the jokey nature of the original game, the stupid looking tank made sense to me. Of course it looked weird.
    57:59
    Yeah. Yeah, this doesn't look like a tank I'd have seen in a sci-fi movie from the 50s, maybe with the bubble on top, but it looks like literally looks like a World War II tank and then put a bubble on top. It's the bubble.
    58:12
    Sorry. It's a mid game. That's the best. That's what the kids today would say. The kids today would say it's a mid game. It is a perfectly serviceable, okay game. It came out at a bad time. It was absolutely trounced by everything that came out around it.
    58:35
    And ever since, it's a game that most people just don't think about. And that's where it's going to set in the whole history of pinball is as something that is an also-ran. It was there. People aren't going to be like, oh, it's bad. People aren't going to be like, oh, this was great. It's going to be like, oh, yeah, that game exists. Yes.
    58:57
    Some people will have the victory edition of, oh, yeah, that game exists. Yes. Okay. Well, do you think they sell all 100?
    59:08
    Honestly, I don't know. I don't know that there's that much draw. I don't know if a new sculpt and some powder coating is enough for them to sell another 100 units.
    59:22
    Yeah. I mean, maybe eventually they will, but no. No, I don't think so. Like, I think they still have some after a year. That's what I mean to say about that. Yeah. Okay. So we're done with the new pinball stuff, but we do have a couple of emails to address. The first one came in from Greg following up on our discussion we had on the last episode regarding Star Trek Next Generation and people getting games rather than, you know, if they weren't paid or however that all worked. Right. I recall. It was two weeks ago. It wasn't that long ago. So Greg wrote as follows. Hey, guys. I can confirm that all the actors who did voices in STT&G got their own game with custom ROMs featuring their outtakes and a special plaque attached to the game. I bought Gates McFadden's machine from her in 2008. Attached is a pick and audio from her ROM. Feel free to play it on the show. It was still in the box and had been sitting in her storage unit since the 90s. It was a thrill and a privilege to open up a Williams game, especially since it's one of my favorite pins ever made. Greg. Well, thank you, Greg. Now, internal notes, Tony, I've allowed you to be able to see what the plaque looked like. Obviously, the people here will not be able to see the plaque, but I am going to go ahead and drop in that outtake ROM material. Tony's already heard it. It's very short. It's going to be like it's like because those chips were a few seconds. This is going to be a few really quick seconds. Do you have medical insurance? Do you realize most of my patients die? Hello, Mama, my name is Jack. James Cleveland, James Cleveland. Hello, Mama, my name is Jack. James Cleveland, James Cleveland.
    61:05
    So that is that. Thank you so much, Greg. And it was pretty cool. Now I want to know what all the other outtake audios were. Right. Like, who would have been the saltiest? Would it have been Patrick Stewart? I don't know. Maybe. Back then, though, he was still kind of presenting, I think, as a much more straight-laced, Shakespearean-style actor. I bet you Michael Dorns would be fun. Yeah, I like that. Yes. I think so, too. But very cool. So I had no idea about the custom romp. Yeah, no, that's super cool. I appreciate you sending that in to us. Another email came in from Richard A., wrote as follows. Interesting. It seems like Dungeon Crawler Carl is the fan favorite and the multimorphic favorite. It seems like it has more plastics and sculpts in it. I like the Ender's Game more. Appearance wise, I like it more. I am a little more familiar with the license. I read the book 32 years ago and remember almost nothing. I am a little surprised about using the author's name in the title. More on this later. Here is my questions for you two. Back around the end of 2018, you two in a discussion said for the P3 to take off, they need to have a must have game. Paraphrasing. Do you think they have had that yet? If not, why? Is it the platform or the licenses? If the platform, what is it about the platform that is holding it back? On the JBS show last week, someone on the roundtable said they think it is because it does not feel like real pinball. Your thoughts? I feel like some of multimorphic licenses are good. But are they Stern good? Is the license big enough that Stern could have done them? If not, could they have worked at one of the smaller manufacturers? The games are Weird Al, Princess Bride, Portal, Dungeon Crawler Carl, Ender's Game. The author had some controversy surrounding him, similar to J.K. Rowling. Does that hurt the license? Ender's Game is not as big as Harry P. Well, thank you, Richard. So a lot of elements there. So let's go in and kind of take it in chunks. Back to our 2018 discussion about that there needed to be a must have game, a killer app, I think might have been what was I've definitely used that phrase before. I don't know if I've used it on this show, but do they have the killer app finally? I think they have arguably had it since Weird Al came out.
    63:25
    I agree with you. Yeah, it's not. At this point, you cannot blame the licenses. No, no. I think starting with Weird Al, that was the first game that really was at a point where any people having issues with it would have been the hardware. And in fact, I believe all of their first party stuff since Weird Al has been licensed. It's the list Richard provided. Princess Bride. That would be a killer app. It's a beloved movie.
    63:59
    Very well known. That might be their biggest license. I would say that's their biggest license overall, just because the nostalgia is so heavy. And I can see that argument. Portal. Video game. Done before video game pinball started to really come back even, and we're still not all that back on it. But plus it does actually feel like the game. It does. Which was, I think, quite a feat. And now, of course, Dungeon Crawler Carl and a very well-respected book.
    64:25
    Maybe the first book more so than the entire series, but nonetheless, Ender's Game is a well-known book.
    64:32
    So the question is, we did – well, he asked if not why. So we already say there is why. But let me interpret your question a little bit, Richard. If you're asking why isn't the P3 everywhere like it feels like so many other things are, it's definitely the platform. It is.
    64:53
    Yeah, I've heard plenty of people that say they don't feel like it feels like real pinball. I don't see that as much anymore as I used to, but there are some people that are put off by that when you turn that thing off, you just have this black screen for two-thirds. They don't like how it looks when it's turned off. They don't like that some of the modes to them feel gimmicky in a video game way. Video modes were never very popular in pinball, and so when you're blasting asteroids on the surface of a TV screen to some people, that's just not pinball. Yeah. But it's a unique experience. Another thing that holds it back, though, is quality control. There have been, in the history of Multimorphic, a lot of complaints about servos and parts and failures. And so it's just not been seen as a reliable product. And they're not the only ones like that. Spooky has that reputation also back when they were using IDE cables and hot gluing everything together. Like it was janky. They might have been the jankiest. I heard more complaints about Spooky QC than I ever did about Multimorphic. But Spooky is also in more homes. It is. And I don't think I've ever seen a P3 on route. I've heard they exist. They do. They do. I have not been on a route where one was there. But I've never seen one on route. Whereas we have seen Spookies on route. We've seen Jersey Jack. We've seen AP, American Pinball. Yeah. Highway. I saw Highway Pinball games. Yeah, but they were broke down all the time. Yeah. I mean, yes. Again, QC is a struggle for many. I mean, I remember how often the early Spookies were broken down on route too. So his question about multimorphic licenses, that he feels they're good. Are they Stern good? Depends on the license. Yeah. Stern, I would say Princess Bride was Stern good. I think so. I mean, I think they could have sold enough units that could have made it worthwhile. Weird Al, maybe. He's pretty popular. He is. I could have more seen Weird Al with one of the smaller groups. On the comment back at the beginning about why they have the author's name in the title, it's 100% to make sure it's not the movie.
    67:18
    It's 100% to not have the movie tie-in. Let's jump a little bit to his question about the author and the controversy. So Orson Scott Card has made a number of anti-homosexual comments, is what that is. So whereas J.K. Rawlings controversies are more regarding trans. So just for those that aren't familiar, does it hurt the license? I don't think the license is big enough that it's really going to matter. I don't think so.
    67:45
    Are there some people that that do not like Orson Scott Card now that liked his book? Yeah, I'm sure I remember more when it was like he was arguing about some state laws or something. Right. I don't know. So long ago and I didn't really follow it that closely because I I've actually They never read any of his books. But I do remember it got some attention in some circles. No, I don't think it's going to be quite as big as a thing for just a mix of reasons. But namely that I just, for all the other reasons we already talked about in the show, Ender's Game is not going to do that well, I don't think, as a module. I think that's a module, especially since even with different roles, there's just not going to be very many people that are going to want to spend $10,000 to get both modules. I just don't see it. I think if it had been like the rumor said, just Ender's Game in development originally, that's all it was going to be. I think it would have come out and it would have been a lackluster seller. And I'm a fan of the series. I think if all their eggs was in the Ender basket, it would do better. It's not going to match what they'll do with DCC. But I think, I don't know, I know it's been so long, but I just remember you and so many people like you. Just worship that book, it felt like.
    69:13
    People saw themselves in that book. They were like, I should be running this military and be saving me. I enjoyed the book. I enjoyed the twist. I wouldn't go so far. I say that, but at the same time, that book is a book that I do gift to people, not infrequently. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I just knew a lot of people who really liked it. And again, well, I never got around to reading it when I saw the movie. And the movie wasn't very popular. But as a story, I thought, it's a pretty good story. Yeah. It's got some interesting concepts going on with it. As is almost always the case. But yeah, no, I do think Ender's Game would have been seen as probably a step back from Portal even. Because Pardole is a huge video game. Again, I did the numbers. The Ender's Game series has more sales than the Dungeon Crawler Carl series does. But it's closer than you might think, and DCC ain't done. And Ender's Game has been selling for a long time. Yes, a long time. 40 years. Yes. So there are a variety of factors. So I do think DCC will likely pass Ender's Game, the Ender series, eventually. But if do do I think these licenses could have worked at one of the smaller manufacturers? Yes, to all of them. The one that would probably been the hardest to translate where P3 could play to its strengths was Portal. Yes. And one might argue DCC. We'll have to see the ability to do different levels of the books, have it look in the you know, have the art remind you of the love. OK, it's a little it's a little bit.
    71:00
    Sus? Is that what the kids would say? I'll say it's a little bit sus simply because you still do have the decal back of that back third, which has to look like kind of, again, I'm assuming I'm looking at level one in the stills that I've provided.
    71:18
    So how that looks when we start going to the level with the town in it or with the mountainous area, is it really going to feel like it fits? I'm sure they'll find a way to integrate it. Yeah, they'll make it work. I have found a way to integrate it. But my point being that it not going to have the flexibility of a full screen experience would have Nonetheless having the levels and being able to do that again because you can change your inserts You could change like this shot going to like this instead of saying juicer this is going to just going to say something you on the side quest Got to do the side quest. Got to investigate these murders. Yeah. Like, yeah, do that. Right. And just change it. So there's some, you know, there's power to that to that system. So other than that, though, like Princess Bride and Ender's Game and all. I think Princess Bride would have done well anywhere. In fact, Princess Bride probably would have done well better with a different company. I agree. I would say of this list, it's tough in terms of the gameplay wise. I've probably read more criticism of Weird Al than any of them. But I also wonder if that's because Weird Al had better penetration and sold to more people.
    72:36
    With more hardcore enthusiasts, Princess Bride's gameplay, I would say, of this list was the most lackluster. Bearing in mind that I don't know on DCC and Ender's game. Obviously. Feedback-wise, I've heard positivity so far, but I haven't heard, like, best shooting game ever. Right. I think Princess Bride's sweet spot would have been at Barrels. Yes. In fact, it feels like, I mean, they did Labyrinth and we almost say Princess Bride in the same breath. Right. So, yeah. I think that's where the sweet spot would be. Or Jersey Jack.
    73:13
    Yeah, I mean, again, like the castle stuff that they did at the back of the P3, you could imagine a JJP doing like something that maybe took up more of a play field. Right. That sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, it all. So there's all sorts of what ifs. Yeah, there's all sorts of what ifs where I think they would have been better suited in those situations. But yeah, I think all of those, except like you said, I think I don't know that Portal could have been as good anywhere else. Yeah, I mean, I could see, again, the mechs that are in play. Yes, any traditional pinball manufacturer could have done all the mechs. It's the doing of the levels. Yeah. And it's like, okay, well, the play field's not dynamically changing constantly, though the ramp lifting. I mean, here with DCC and with the rotation thing, that's trying to be more. My favorite mech still from Multimorphics is actually the Heist crane.
    74:07
    What a cool crane. Way better than any other crane I've ever seen in a game. And incidentally, as I have been told, if you are wanting to get into the P3 platform, investment-wise, The Heist module is like the add-on of choice because there's like 10 games that use it. So when you start bringing in the third party stuff. So like if you want to not have to buy a whole bunch of modules and you want to have a lot of games, a lot of people have built on the Heist module. For a long time, Heist, I'd say until Portal, Heist was my favorite shooter.
    74:36
    And it may be a better shooter still than Portal. I like Portal so much as a video game that I have some bias that may be infecting my view. You've got the biases. I try to acknowledge it, though, so people are aware. Speaking of awareness, I think it's time we do let the listeners know. We are finally done talking about pinball.
    74:57
    After months and months and months. Well over an hour in. Oh, yeah. After months of skipping pinball-ass sections of only, you know. I didn't need to use Richard's list of games and stuff to fall back on because we had so much stuff. It's great. It is nice. It's super nice. I just wish they'd spread it out so we could have had like three months of pinball to talk about instead of – This has felt like a very light year. It has. And this doesn't change that. It still feels light. But having them all come out the same week is rough. It is. It's harder because I feel like maybe we – we would have definitely spoken about Bon Jovi longer than we did today if we weren't already having spent 30-plus minutes on DCC and Enders games. Right. It's just, I mean, we only want to go for so long. I mean, would we? We would have because there would have been nothing else to talk about. Okay, that's valid. Objectively, it's just like how it works. Shot through the heart and it's a pinball game. Yes.
    75:53
    In the pinball show one, Zach edited out my, I think, I went back and I thought I checked. I had this, I thought it was a good joke. You can write and click the Gamers Podcast at gmail.com and tell me if it was terrible or not. But I was explaining, I asked him if, if I remember right, I'd asked him if he thought J.J.P. was upset that Barrels ended up getting the Bon Jovi license. And I was hinging the whole argument on in Living on a Prayer where they go oompa loompa, oompa loompa. And since they'd already done Wonka, they wanted to have the sequel. I don't know if he didn't get it or he was just like, that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And he edited me out. Oompa loompa, oompa loompa. That's what I always say when that song has that part. Is that not the words?
    76:43
    I don't know. I honestly don't know. Okay. Video games, what's going on? It was kind of a rough couple weeks for consoles. PlayStation Network went down, dropping people from being able to access their digital content, being able to access the storefronts, being able to download stuff.
    77:07
    And then a week later, Xbox had the same thing, except for it hit harder because of a variety of issues. Not only were people not able to log into Xbox Live, play games online, purchase games, but the issue turned out to have been with a licensing service that they used that had a bunch of stuff fail on it. So even if you had already downloaded some games when it tried to hit the licensing service to prove that you had the digital rights, it was failing. So people weren't able to play. And due to a completely separate error somewhere in the system that they are currently working on fixing, according to the reports, even some people with discs were not able to play the game because the Xbox wasn't kicking into offline mode. To play the downloaded stuff off of the old permissions that had been that were supposed to have been saved in it. Right. And even there were times where the disc permissions weren't being allowed to play because it couldn't get the online permissions. I guess this is why we have to get rid of discs. This is why we have to get rid of discs. That's right. It's the only way. Because, yeah, that way you can't play unless you're online. Yeah. Problem solved. No offline mode ever. Yeah. So the Xbox. Don't you all have phones?
    78:37
    It's a wrong reference. I mean, it's so. But I do the edits of the show, so that one's staying in. That's fine. Sorry. It's a perfectly valid reference because it was so sad. So sad. Now, Xbox has said that they've identified the issues on why the disks in the offline mode weren't working, and they are working on a fix for that. How come? So. I didn't play during this, so I didn't experience it myself. Yeah, it wasn't like days or anything like that. No, but I mean, it was all over Reddit. It was. It's all I read all day. Yeah. And that was what got me. I was like, oh, man, PlayStation had this big outage. And then Xbox had one that was worse. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I heard way more about the Microsoft one. Well, that's because with the PlayStation one, you could still play games. Yeah. And with the Microsoft one. Like playing games. That's the key. No. How about no?
    79:34
    Scotty doesn't know. Man, that movie. What do you think of Empire Records as a pinball machine?
    79:48
    Oh, man. It's Gwar. Why don't you go into the band? I have not seen that in like three years. What is it? It's Scott Manning Day. Yes. Yay!
    80:05
    Sorry. I didn't mean to sidetrack you. That's right. Empire Records, not my cult movie of choice. No, not mine either. I was going to put a cult movie into a pinball machine because for me it would be Buckaroo Bonsai. Would it? Oh, yeah. Over Rocky Horror. Yes, but not by a lot. No, no. For me, I never liked Buckaroo Bonsai. See, I like It's Just Sheer Insanity.
    80:32
    I mean, at that point, I would go with more like Big Trouble in Little China, something a little more mainstream. Oh, no, that would sell better.
    80:42
    I also think it's a better movie by a lot. It is a better movie. That's true. Listen to the old Porkchop Express. Yes.
    80:53
    But, I mean, I do think Rocky Horror would be a good pinball thing. Oh, yeah. But, where was I? You were explaining how. Oh, yes. Yes. Microsoft put their financials out for the last quarter, and Microsoft did very, very well overall. Well, Xbox did very, very, very bad. Yes. They had a 10% drop in revenue across the content services. Hardware sales was a double digit down. Not surprising. Game sales were down. Everything was down. Their fourth quarter losses were projected at $1.7 billion. It was a very rough run for Xbox. And it'll be interesting because they had that. They've done, what, three price increases over the course of the last year? I think so.
    82:02
    The current price of an Xbox is 33% higher than it was on launch day of the Xbox. But I'm curious because the cost of hardware is continuing to climb. The cost of RAM is continuing to climb where Microsoft is sitting because Sony has made an announcement that they had made big enough purchases. They're setting on enough RAM stock to cover all of their planned PlayStation construction through March of 27. So there should be no more PlayStation cost increases this year. Right. But we don't know where Microsoft is sitting in the same time frame.
    82:51
    Also, NVIDIA announced a 30% price increase on their video cards due to the ongoing increase in RAM costs.
    83:04
    And we've been talking last time about PlayStation's announcement that they're ending discs. Yes. Which has gone over great. It's gone over wonderful. I mean, there's been no complaints at all. Absolutely. Everybody thinks it's a great idea. They're tired of those heavy discs. It's an interesting – there's an interesting little duality to it because I can understand where they're coming from after seeing the numbers of actual disc sales and how low they really are. Right. The disc sales in the United States are incredibly low, like way, way less than half of game sales.
    83:53
    But at the same time, I can understand from people wanting to actually own their thing. But a lot of disc games anymore, all the disc has on it is such a bare bones version. And you can't play it without digital downloading anyway to do an update and an install.
    84:15
    But a large group of PlayStation fans are trying to organize a blackout. They call it the PS blackout. They're trying to put together for people from August 23rd until August 30th, so seven days, to not turn on or utilize their PlayStation's or Sony's architecture or PlayStation architecture in any way, shape, or form for seven days as a protest. And there's no way these numbers are going to be significant. I think the truth of the matter is it's a lot of people being very loud about it, but none of them actually care enough to stop using their systems for seven days. Even if they did.
    85:05
    I don't think PlayStation will care. Yeah, I don't want to. I'm going to say it as so what? Because just imagine if you're Sony. It's like, where are you going? You're not going to Microsoft. We're the biggest – I mean – Right. They have – quote, unquote – Nintendo does its own thing. Nintendo doesn't have as much power, all that. So in terms of the closest cutting edge to PC gaming on the console space, Sony has got most of the market, and they know it. And they've got all these exclusives, and they know it, and they know that you're already invested in their system. To switch would be so expensive for people. Well, it's part of the reason why I wouldn't switch if I can help it is I've most of my stuff like I'm with backwards compatibility and everything else is on Xbox. So it is what it is. And it's like like nobody's really long term leaving of note, like not enough. They just don't. It's too hard. There's not enough choice. Right. There's not. You're not going to jump to Sega. There is no Sega. So here you are. You just have to ban and go PC. I mean, again, but if they want their their back catalog didn't come with them to PC. No, it doesn't. I don't really know much about gardens. The point being, Sony's going to call their bluff. Actually, I don't even know they're going to put the thought into it. I saw yesterday, Sony's had a statement where they're trying to say the right thing here, but they're not changing anything. So they're like, we're going to cautiously move forward is the line they've used now.
    87:06
    Versus, again, not to go too far outside of the realm of pinball and video games, Versus like the whole FIFA thing where it's like we're going to set up this private investment FIFA thing. And then three days later, we're like, we're sorry, we're abandoning all plans. Please let me keep my job. Right. And it's one of those things that they're – I don't know that Sony's in the wrong.
    87:27
    Yeah, again, the only thing I would pause at is disc sales so low because there's so little option for – like there's plenty of games I just can't get on disc. There are. So I have no choice if I want to play the game. But that being said, I mean, technology changes. It's just I think for a lot of people, they still like Sony's. Sony was the good guys back when the Xbox One came out and they remember the whole here's how you share a game. Right. Now it's like, no. Now what are you going to do? Hand me your entire console? Not at the prices of RAM today. That thing's liquid gold. You should hand in a console to your friend. Kidding me? We're not that good of friends. Sure, I'll give you a kidney, but not my console. My current plan, Tony, is when it's time for me to get my next car, I'm going to sell my Xbox RAM, and then I'll buy my car. That's the strategy.
    88:21
    And if I don't quite have enough, I'll sell the RAM and the 360 that I've got in the basement. That'll do it. That's going to push me over the edge. Yeah, you'll get a bet. That's what I got. Get yourself a Corvette. People going after the platinum and carburetors. Platinum is nothing. Platinum is the new pewter. Ram is the way to go. Ram is the precious metal.
    88:43
    That's the target. That's the goal. Right there. Yeah, I agree with you. This isn't going to do anything to Sony. No, it's not. But I also think that the, yeah, and also, telling gamers not to play for a week, good luck. Right. Here's the thing. Such a vast majority of console gamers don't even necessarily consider themselves gamers, and they don't fall into the normal what people would consider gamers. They're the sports gamers. They're the mad FIFA gamers. And there is an incredibly large percentage of console users who only play sports games. They might pick up a Call of Duty, but even then, it has to be something very special. Normally, it's just nothing but sports games. And that is a double-digit, and they're not part of any of these discussions. Because as long as there's a new game that has the new names of the new players on their team from the one from last year, they're happy.
    89:55
    So there's always going to be a market there that probably didn't even realize this is a discussion going on.
    90:03
    So we'll see. We'll see where we end up. I am very curious to see how well this blackout concern goes. I'll be curious to see what the numbers look like. But here's the thing.
    90:18
    Anything that's reported is going to be self-reported because Sony's not going to go, wow, our usership was down 34%. It's nowhere going to be anywhere near that. But there's no way they're going to say that their stuff is down. Even if it was a huge hit for that week, they would never say it. They would never admit it. It would be insane of them to do it. So a month after being spun off from Xbox Double Fine Studio, had to lay off almost a quarter of their staff to be able to get to a point where they could transition back to being sustainable as an independent studio.
    91:00
    I'm not surprised. No. To leave that much backing and go back to being – there has to be a balancing. So it's not a terrible surprise.
    91:15
    Similarly, depending upon who you talk to, some of the other companies that were part of those layoffs are coming back that they're having real issues because the layoff hits were so hard. The heads of id is saying that they're reorganizing and things are fine, but a lot of actual workers are like, we're in shambles and all of our timelines on game development are gone. We're having to basically rebuild everything and start over because the hits were so hard. So it'll be interesting to see where that all actually balances out between the implications of how hard they were hit and the realities of what it does to timelines. EA, in the news multiple times over the last couple weeks, CEO Andrew Wilson got a $38.7 million bonus due to Battlefield 6 performing so well and hitting all milestones and the beginning of their new AI strategy that they launched this year. And most of their other execs received double-digit million dollar bonuses for all of that, how well they've done this year, which is working very well for them going into their transition to be a private company. We talked about this six months ago or so.
    92:47
    The consortium from the Saudi Public Investment Fund with Affinity Partners and Silver Lake has gone together to purchase all stock and move EA to private instead of being a publicly traded company. That has been caught up in regulation, and they've received the final regulator approvals. So that is going forward and reportedly that is going to start on the 4th is when that transition will begin. So we will see how that works out as EA ceases to be a public company and goes behind the wall and it becomes a wholly majority, let's go with majority owned portion of the Saudi public investment firm. Right. because that's, I would want to say they're 90 some odd percent. I would say they were 90, 92 percent, and then Affinity was like 6 percent, and Silver Lake was like 2 percent, or those two might have been flopped when the initial purchase snuff came out. But it will be, yeah, a whole move from public to private, and we'll see what happens with their games when that transition is done, And they no longer have to worry about shareholders. Yeah. Maybe they'll spend as much time as needed and make the bestest of games. That's the dream is that when you no longer have to take the shareholders into concern that – Yeah. Short-term gains are no longer the priority. Right. But let's be realistic. That's not going to happen, especially not with EA. Yeah. It's in the game. Just like the ads that are in all the games now. Watch this ad.
    94:39
    So that's all I really had in video games since we have so much in pinball today. I cut it kind of short, but we'll see what is coming in two weeks. All right. Well, if you want to reach out to us again, the email address is EclecticGamersPodcast at gmail.com. We can also be found at Facebook.com slash EclecticGamersPodcast. As I know it, towards the start of the show, you can support us for as little as a dollar a month That's at patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers. We're available on Twitch and Instagram as eclectic underscore gamers. And as Tony said, we'll be back in a couple of weeks. Will there be another release? Don't know. There's production schedule wise. It does look like there's room for Stern to do something in August, but I wouldn't assume it to be a cornerstone. So there's some rumors about a new anniversary edition coming out.
    95:27
    Something that's already been done, but within, you know, a new art package, kind of like Jaws 50. Right. Anyway, until then, my name is Dennis. I'm Tony. Goodbye, everybody. See ya.