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The Pinball Show Ep 1: The Pilot

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 32m·held·Feb 10, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

The The The Pinball Show pilot covers Iron Man (Vault) re-vault, Rick and Morty (SE) and Morty gameplay reveal, and industry updates.

Summary

The The The Pinball Show pilot episode launches The Pinball Network with hosts Ken Crone and Zach Menne (using comedic aliases Mac and Jenny) discussing major industry news: Stern's re-vault of Iron Man despite lukewarm reception to Stranger Things, Jersey Jack's upcoming announcement (possibly at Texas Pinball Festival or Midwest Gaming Classic), American Pinball game three launch with Jim Patla as COO, and extensive analysis of Rick and Morty (SE) and Morty pinball machine including gameplay footage from Adult Swim and internal Spooky streams.

Key Claims

  • Stern's re-vault of Iron Man in February 2020 is perplexing given lukewarm reception to Stranger Things and fan desire for Lord of the Rings or Tron vaults instead.

    high confidence · Craig Bobby, TPN Industry News correspondent, on Stern's vault strategy

  • Distributors, including Ken Crone, were not informed of the Iron Man vault until day-of or day-before announcement.

    high confidence · Ken Crone discussing Stern's lack of advance notice to distributors

  • Rick and Morty (SE) and Morty has the best animations and custom voice call-outs Spooky Pinball has ever produced.

    high confidence · Zach Menne's assessment of Rick and Morty gameplay video

  • Rick and Morty playfield features a pop bumper replacing a traditional sling, an innovation that has been well-received by the community despite initial design risk.

    high confidence · Ken Crone discussing Scott Danesi design decision

  • Jersey Jack's next title announcement will likely occur at Texas Pinball Festival (late March) or Midwest Gaming Classic (early April) 2020.

    medium confidence · Ken Rudberg, Jersey Jack correspondent, noting timing uncertainty and Slash's tour schedule conflict

  • Bowen Kerins is working on the rule set for Rick and Morty with Eric Ritchie implementing code.

    high confidence · Zach Menne discussing Rick and Morty's development team

  • Rick and Morty pinball machines are expected to ship to pre-order customers within a week of the pilot episode air date.

    medium confidence · Ken Crone on expected delivery timeline for Rick and Morty (SE) and Morty

  • Stern likely chose to re-vault Iron Man rather than Lord of the Rings or Tron because the Iron Man license was easier to attain.

    medium confidence · Ken Crone speculation on licensing strategy

  • Lord of the Rings and Disney TRON: Legacy vaults may never be released due to licensing complexity and Stern's desire to potentially modernize them first.

Notable Quotes

  • “I've been placed under pinball protection program, and I am actually stationed outside of the coast of Costa Rica.”

    Zach Menne @ Opening — Joking reference to recent controversy; sets comedic tone for show premiere and alludes to undisclosed drama

  • “That's the last you're going to hear of me talk about any of this crap controversy because God knows that a lot of people out there have used all of their platform to focus on us.”

    Zach Menne @ Early segment — Acknowledges unspecified recent controversy affecting hosts; establishes forward-looking, positive stance

  • “The animations and the call-outs were easily the best that we have ever seen or heard from spooky pinball, in my opinion.”

    Zach Menne @ Rick and Morty discussion — High praise for Spooky's production quality on Rick and Morty; positions game as Spooky's best work to date

  • “Scott Danesi has a way of doing something that feels traditional, but it's so odd and unique that it works really, really well.”

    Zach Menne @ Rick and Morty analysis — Recognition of designer Scott Danesi's innovation, particularly regarding unconventional playfield layout choices

  • “If it's easy to attain and people are still asking for it, why not do a small run because you know you're going to sell them?”

    Ken Crone @ Iron Man vault discussion — Explains Stern's likely rationale for Iron Man re-vault; frames licensing as key business driver

  • “I don't know anybody that's in my kind of circle of local friends that were looking for another Iron Man (Vault).”

    Zach Menne @ Iron Man vault skepticism — Expresses surprise and lack of market demand from collector/enthusiast perspective

  • “I am not sure we will ever see a vault of Lord of the Rings or of Disney TRON: Legacy. Oh, man.”

    Zach Menne @ Licensing discussion — Pessimistic prediction on highly-desired titles; suggests licensing barriers may be insurmountable

Entities

Ken CronepersonZach MennepersonThe Pinball ShowmediaThe Pinball NetworkorganizationStern PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyRick and MortygameIron Mangame

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Stern Pinball announces re-vault of Iron Man for February 2020 with LED and cabinet improvements; small domestic and overseas production run

    high · Craig Bobby reports on Iron Man re-vault with specific February 2020 date and improvements mentioned

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Community speculation on potential Stern re-vaults: Ghostbusters, Tron, and Lord of the Rings are most desired by fans

    high · Craig Bobby, Ken, and Zach all reference these titles as expected re-vault candidates over Iron Man

  • ?

    product_concern: Rick and Morty gameplay footage shows potential issues with upper right flipper orbit shots feeding inconsistently; uncertain if setup issue or design problem

    medium · Both Ken and Zach note visible issues with orbit shot consistency in gameplay stream; Ken notes manufacturer should have selected best-playing unit for demo

  • ?

    design_innovation: Rick and Morty features novel pop bumper placement replacing traditional sling; community has accepted innovation well despite initial design risk

    high · Ken extensively discusses Scott Danesi's courage in replacing sling with pop bumper; notes community reception has been positive despite expectations of resistance

  • ?

    code_update: Willy Wonka (Jersey Jack) receives code update to version 1.33 focusing on bug fixes and operator's manual release

    high · Ken Rudberg Jersey Jack correspondent reports v1.33 update with bug fixes and operator's manual that owners have been awaiting

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.277

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Hey, what's going on Pinball Land? Welcome! It is opening day on the Pinball Network and stepping up to the plate is the Pinball Show. My name is Ken Cromwell. My co-host with me today is Zach Menne and we're about to bring you the inaugural episode of the Pinball Show. What's up, Zach? Well, actually, Ken, this isn't Jack and Manny. This is Mac and Jenny. I've been placed under pinball protection program, and I am actually stationed outside of the coast of Costa Rica. I'll tell you what. When I envisioned how we were going to open up this show over the past several weeks, in no way did I think you were going to go in the ways of witness protection and the computerized, gurgling voice. I'm in hiding. You are in hiding. Man, there's been a lot of stuff flying our way this last month. You been having fun there, buddy? No, but I'm going to have fun today. That's the whole thing with this.
1:28
It's great because I know for certain you have been pacing like a caged animal, waiting to get back on the microphone to record. And today's the day. So I'm assuming you're ready to bring the A game today. Oh, my God. I have the tiger, dude. I've been doing my crunches. I've been doing my push-ups. I've been doing my flipper skills, my little finger flicking.
1:47
Pinball podcast workout. Oh, and you know that you were recording with Special and Lit the last episode. And nicely done on that, buddy. Hey, thanks. Nicely done on your last episode of TWIP. We should absolutely compliment each other as much as we can as we start this new show together and build some confidence. We've got to hold each other up. Exactly. It'll be fine. Don't worry. Everything will be fine. Over the last month, it has been a whirlwind of stuff. I've got called all kinds of names and accusations, and none of it has been fun, but I'm going to keep a smile on and create positivity, of which case I've been slammed for as well, being too positive. So, damn it, you know what? That's the last you're going to hear of me talk about any of this crap controversy because God knows that a lot of people out there have used all of their platform to focus on us. Ken, isn't it beautiful? It's not bad. It's not a horrible thing. At this point, I'm looking forward, just as you said, the rearview mirror is the rearview mirror, and we are driving the car, so let's see how far we can take it without driving it off the cliff. The car, I feel like we're driving the hype train. Whoop, whoop! That's right. Yeah, so I'm excited about this, man. Now, we did steal a little bit in steel. Steel is such a strong word. Please, we're not criminals in regards to theft at this point, right? We have borrowed something from what you've done with Special One Lit that I think was so exciting. No, you know, I think this show is going to be informing and entertaining throughout the way. Everybody sit back and relax. We're just getting started. But let's start off with some pinball show headlines. It's time for TPN Industry News.

low confidence · Zach Menne's pessimistic prediction, tempered by Ken's counter-point referencing George Gomez's past comments

  • Stern is currently producing 12 or more titles simultaneously.

    medium confidence · Ken Crone noting Stern's production capacity

    • “If you like Iron Man, you may want to buy one. If you don't, then you don't have to buy one.”

    Ken Crone @ Iron Man vault closing — Pragmatic market positioning; reframes Iron Man vault as non-mandatory niche product

  • “The exposure of Rick and Rick and Morty (SE) is bringing pinball to those that would not have thought about it prior.”

    Ken Crone @ Adult Swim appearance discussion — Notes market expansion potential from mainstream media appearances

  • “If they can attain those licenses, a little bit more time to make it more contemporary or to change it in a way that gives what us hobbyists really want to see.”

    Zach Menne @ Licensing strategy discussion — Explains potential rationale for delaying high-demand vaults; frames as opportunity for modernization

    • Scott Danesiperson
    Bowen Kerinsperson
    [name withheld pending review]person
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Jim Patlaperson
    Willy Wonkagame
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Midwest Gaming Classicevent
    Adult Swimvenue
    John Borgperson
    George Gomezperson
    Ghostbustersgame
    Trongame
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    ?

    industry_signal: Stern Pinball provided minimal advance notice to distributors about Iron Man re-vault; distributors informed day-of or day-before announcement

    high · Ken Cromwell explicitly states he was not informed in advance and only learned day-of or day-before; expresses surprise at lack of distribution channel coordination

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Lord of the Rings and Tron re-vaults face significant licensing barriers; Stern may delay these to allow modernization rather than straight re-release

    medium · Ken and Zach discuss licensing as primary reason for Iron Man choice over LOTR/Tron; Zach expresses pessimism about ever seeing these vaults; Ken references George Gomez's prior comments on license attainment difficulty

  • ?

    product_launch: Rick and Morty pinball machines expected to begin shipping to pre-order customers within approximately one week of pilot episode

    medium · Ken states 'games are going to start showing up here next week' and predicts streaming within 10 days based on customer orders

  • ?

    content_signal: Spooky Rick and Morty featured on Adult Swim's 'Stupid Morning Bullshit Show'; brings pinball exposure to mainstream audience unfamiliar with the hobby

    high · Both Ken and Zach discuss Adult Swim appearance; Ken notes host was unfamiliar with pinball before show; both see exposure as positive market expansion

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment has shifted from anticipated resistance to pop bumper innovation toward anticipation and desire to play the feature

    medium · Ken notes he expected 'crisis within the masses' over pop bumper placement but instead sees 'people...anticipating and craving to want to play it'

  • $

    market_signal: Iron Man re-vault announcement shows weak pre-order demand; no significant wait list developed despite Stern distributing to customer lists

    high · Ken states 'There were some crickets there' when contacting Iron Man wait list; explains no demand discovered despite past sales; small run planned with another anticipated in fall/winter

  • ?

    event_signal: Jersey Jack's next major title announcement expected at either Texas Pinball Festival (late March) or Midwest Gaming Classic (early April) 2020; timing uncertain and complicated by Slash's tour schedule

    medium · Ken Rudberg reports announcement date 'still up in the air' and notes Slash's South America tour with Guns N' Roses conflicts with both potential dates

    • 3:27
    Stern gets stranger, and who wants a revolt? Hey everyone, and welcome back, Zach, Dennis, and Ken. I'm Craig Bobby, the pinball show's Stern News correspondent. Well, as the pinball train slowly moves past the much-anticipated but lukewarm reception of Brian Eddy's Stranger Things, the pinball world now turns its hungry eyes toward the promise of spring and the Texas Pinball Festival at the end of March. And so in the meantime, while the winter slumber lingers, what does Stern decide to do but surprise everyone with a vaulted title of yesteryear? Ooh, what's that you say? Could it be Stern's most popular title of all time in Ghostbusters? Or maybe the cult classic title of Tron? Or wait, don't tell me, the world under glass and epic pinball journey of your favorite hobbit in The Lord of the Rings? Well, no. Instead of those surefire sales winners, Stern takes their fans into their own world of the upside down and decides to vault the already once vaulted title of, wait for it, Iron Man. Yes, the John Borg designed Lonnie Rupp and Lyman Sheets coated 2010 Iron Man, which was previously vaulted back in 2014, makes its triumphant and somewhat perplexing return now in February of 2020. And despite the improvements of modern LED lighting and some cabinet and backbox build improvements, the reception for this revolted title has to leave fans of the world's largest pinball company feeling, well, a little like calling for some heroic relief of their own. And thankfully, that relief may not be far off with the likes of Stern's next highly rumored title release of those lovable and retro-themed reptiles, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yes, among its rumored features of this John Borg and Zombie Yeti title, TMNT is now boasting a player-controlled ball diverter, cooperative gameplay, and a first for Stern, online connectivity. Combine this with a playfield that is again rumored to be practically packed with great art, toys, and mechanisms, and you have a game which on paper already makes TMNT look like the thrill-seeking adventure Stern fans have waited too long to play. But we shall have to wait and see. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    6:08
    but the announcement date for that pin is still up in the air. Will it be at the Texas Pinball Festival in late March, or will it be at the Midwest Gaming Classic in early April? It's too soon to say, but for those who were hoping Slash would be present at the unveiling, both of those dates don't work as he's on tour with Guns N' Roses in South America. It remains to be seen which of these two, if either of them, will be the date for the next Jersey Jack pin announcement. And talking about that last remaining pin that's still on the line, Willy Wonka received a code update recently to version 1.33. This update really focused on some bug fixes, but also includes an operator's manual, which many owners have been waiting for. For the Pinball Network, this has been Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. Jim Patlaw recently came on board American Pinball as the interim chief operations officer. He's a designer of games like KISS, Space Invaders, and Centaur. He's going to be at Texas Pinball Festival and he's helping with the launch of game number three. Oktoberfest has updated coil stops available for the upper right flipper. That's going to help with that upper ramp shot, so call your distributor to get those parts. Also, pin number three is scheduled to be released at TPF, should be available to play there, and also to purchase. Hopefully distributors will have a few in stock for sale. For American Pinball, this is Brian Cosner.
    7:42
    I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it. I'm about to lose some tone, and I think I like it. Welcome to this week's spooky update on the Pinball Show with Dr. John. As you're all aware, I'm a fairly excitable person, as you can tell by the music intro. And the big exciting thing out of Spooky this week is the hint reveal on YouTube of the Rick and Morty gameplay. It shows what Scott Denise had mentioned, that he loves to live on the tears of pinball players by making a game brutally fast but extremely fun. If you haven't seen it yet, just search for Spooky Rick and Morty Gameplay on YouTube and you'll be linked to that 15-minute game review with Bug, Bunyip, and Charlie all having a game. Looks like a lot of fun. Hope you catch up with it soon, and we'll be catching you next week on the new pinball show. Thanks a lot for listening.
    8:44
    All right, Zach, so always good hearing from the correspondents. I don't even have time to miss them because they're here and they're on the pinball show, but let's go right into what Dr. John was talking about. He's covering spooky pinball for the pinball show, and everything spooky right now is everything Rick and Morty, and we just saw additional gameplay. If you want to call it gameplay, we saw people playing a game on Adult Swim. Did you get a chance to check out that show? I forget what it was. It's like, what is it, Wednesday morning bullshit or something like that? Yeah, the Stupid Morning Bullshit Show. Stupid Morning Bullshit Show, right. That's a clever name. Is it? I wasn't sure what was happening there. I didn't know what to expect. And it was so the show in itself as is a direction in which I've never really seen a show. It's I think it's purposely raw. And what were your impressions just seeing Spooky there in Atlanta at Adult Swim and then seeing them on this stupid morning bullshit show? I think that was really smart to go and to be offered the opportunity to go down to Atlanta to Adult Swim and to showcase that product somehow on that network. Now, I didn't know it was almost like a separate on demand kind of thing. I thought it would have been filmed for the television. So it was like more of a stream, a very odd, strange, millennial type of stream. I don't know. Maybe it went above my head, but the format was kind of odd and strange. But, hell, kids nowadays are a bit odd and strange. It is. I noticed, like, the green screen they were utilizing kind of, like, it went around the circumference of the studio. But at one point, you could see people, like, that were morphed into the green screen, like the Manhattan Project over there at Adult Swim. So I think it was fused into the screen. Purposefully doing that, which is weird. It's almost like everything is just cynical now. We make fun of ourselves, and that's what comedy is. That's not what comedy is to me, ladies and gentlemen. But, no, it was fine. It was cool. I liked seeing some of the people we know and love on a bigger audience-based network. So that was neat. We felt like a bit out of place as pinball people in that realm. But, hell, very fitting for Rick and Morty. To say the least. I think at one point the host was like, I didn't know what pinball was until literally this morning when I heard that this was coming on the show. So if anything, the exposure of Rick and Morty Pin is bringing pinball to those that would not have thought about it prior. So you've got that for sure. And I love that of any channel or any show to go on, they go on the show where the main host is actually not a big fan of Rick and Morty. Right. Nothing wrong with a little support there from the staff. We also got, Ken, we got the recorded video from Spooky that released a day or two before that. So we have two examples, one an actual typical stream feel to it, but we got only one game play with three guys. And then we had this over-the-shoulder type of demonstration on the adult swim stream of Stupid Morning Bullshit. Well, let's go into the Spooky stream, right? because, I mean, that was from Benton, Wisconsin, and that was with staff there. Now, I mean, I've got some – I was excited to see the gameplay in a streaming type of a setup because we haven't really seen that. Now, that being said, yeah, as excited as I was for a lot of things, there were a couple things that left me kind of concerned. But, again, that's why a stream is real difficult to judge the overall experience of a pinball machine because you're in this forced kind of environment where you're not taking the whole machine in. What were your thoughts on that stream? The thoughts on the stream? I wanted to see more gameplay, selfishly, of course. I knew I wasn't going to get that. It was probably smart for them just to give a little bit of a taste because it's going to take a long amount of time for them to develop all 750 of these machines. So that made sense to me. The things that stood out to me, the things that I love, we'll start with that because you and I both have one on order, right, buddy? Yeah, that is correct. And I'm assuming right now these games are going to start showing up here next week, whereas somebody that has a game and has streaming capabilities, not ours, unfortunately, but you're going to see this game streamed here within the next 10 days. I'm confident of it. Yeah. Some of the things that really stood out to me is this is a Rick and Morty pinball machine. Yes, it is. The animations and the call-outs were easily the best that we have ever seen or heard from spooky pinball, in my opinion. Alice Cooper is hard to beat when it comes to some of those animations. And there was really TNA, no real call-outs besides react, started, or whatever the hell. Well, and that was all text-to-speech that was utilized. So there wasn't like a physical person that was making those call-outs either on TNA. That makes sense. So I think as one big package, integrative package, this is the best that Spooky Pinball has ever developed to date. And I don't think there's any argument there. You don't have to play the game to hear what it sounds like and to see what it looks like. So that really stood out to me, as well as just the unique layout of Rick and Morty. I've got to give it to Scott Denise. He has a way of doing something that feels traditional, but it's so odd and unique that it works really, really well. And I think he did that here on his sophomore approach of Rick and Morty pinball. So those are a couple of things I was excited about. And I will say, before I pass it over to you again, little things that I didn't think I liked but I think I'm going to like, that damn pop bumper. I think I'm really going to like the placement of that pop bumper. Interesting. Yeah. As our co-host Dennis Creasel has said to us in chat, he said that he thinks it's still going to feel very traditional because it's an Italian bottom but just a replaced sling with a pop bumper. so we're still going to get a lot of the same feeds but it's got that slam feature that if it screws you and you have that lit you're going to get a ball safe but i like the way that pop bumper was reacting because i tend to like more difficult games and i think rick and morty is going to give that to me in spades the pop bumper is innovative in the way in which it's been incorporated into the game and that was going back a long time ago when scott kind of had this on cad and scott kind of showed me this concept this idea that he had for another pinball machine and that pop bumper was there. And I remember going away from that conversation and just talking to Scott and saying that, are you almost forcing yourself to think too far outside of the box to get too innovative? Because I think what happens when pinball people especially are accustomed to something and you change something like a back box shape, when you take a pop bumper and you put it where a sling is, I expected there to be a crisis within the masses. but it seems like this general concept has not only been accepted very well, but people are now anticipating and craving to want to play it. And I have to tip my hat to Scott on it because if it was me, I would not have done it. I just, I don't think that I would have had the courage to kind of do that because at that point I would have felt like I was battling uphill right off the bat to try to convince people that it made sense. But from what I'm seeing, it looks like it makes, it was a good decision on his end. My one kind of concern were the shots that were coming off the upper right-hand flipper and that were feeding like the orbit shots and the loop shots to the left. And that could have been because of jitters from those that were playing. That could have been a game that maybe just wasn't level and needs a little bit of expertise as far as setup goes. But assuming those shots, okay, assuming those shots are fun shots and they're not rattly shots consistently, I think that that will end up working itself out. There are games that I do like that do have a little bit of clunk, and Deadpool is one of those games where it doesn't frustrate me the clunk on Deadpool. And I'm not hinting that I am convinced that Rick and Morty will have some clunkiness on the left side. I'm just saying based on what I've seen off of Pinball Stream or 2, that did kind of make me wonder how that's going to end up playing out on my game when I get it. Yeah, I think you bring up a really good point. I saw the same issues with that orbit shot. Now, I'm not going to be as nice because these are the manufacturers of the game. They have 20 being built. They get to choose one to put on video to make the entire example of the way this thing shoots. They chose the one. For better or worse, that orbit had some issues. Now, I don't know, is it because there's, I think there's a spinner there, isn't there? so yeah i don't know if it's this spinner that was preventing it to be as clean as it needs to be now we did see a couple shots that did feed through and you can repeat that shot but i i don't know if it's an angle thing but there was a lot of and then rolling back out sure does scare me as well as that garage shot the garage shot is very much on the tip of that upper right flipper and we know just by the trajectory and the geometry of that, that's not going to be a fast, flowy shot, I don't think. I think you're going to be lucky just to get it up in there and trickle back up the play field because there is an incline.
    17:55
    Is that shot accessible from the lower right flipper, or do you need to only access that garage shot on the left? Because I know you can hit the garage from the right. The garage shot is only accessible through the third flipper, but using the lower left flipper, you can take the right orbit that goes, I believe, to it as well. Right. But if you want to hit it in front through that garage door, it's only accessible by that upper right flipper, which I'm fine with. I'm good with it. No, that's fine. I don't want there to be a shot that altered the rest of the game that you just physically can't hit without it being accidental. But, again, this is just early speculation. I'm not one to really put a final judgment on a game before I've played it even like 30, 40, 50 times. Of course. You know what I mean? The things that I am excited about, number one, and you had touched on it before, but the video assets and the call-outs, the custom call-outs from Justin Roiland alone can make this game amazing for me to own. And what this has done now, Rick and Morty alone has made me go on and watch all four seasons. Absolutely. After seeing this pinball stream and seeing how now these episodes are integrated as modes, it's made me go on back. I'm starting season one again. I'm watching these through again because you don't know when a new mode is going to be introduced that's going to pay homage to another episode. And I want to have as much digested and understanding of these episodes as I can. And I'll say this, Zach, watching these episodes for the second time, something I typically don't ever, ever, ever do. You pick up on things that you didn't pick up on originally, and it's just as funny as it was the first time. So it's going to be – I'm pumped for it. but I'm also going to be a realist until I'm able to actually sit down and physically shoot the game. I think that what you're alluding to is really well said, is that this is something that you and I weren't a huge part of, but because it brought us into this series, we like it so much that it's now not just a cartoon, not just a TV show, But it's a part of what we identify as and that we are going to love for years and years regardless of what happens to it. And if you're able to take something like that, it can easily become a dream theme-like thing. And then you mix that with a pinball machine in which we're passionate about. That's why this thing is hitting on all cylinders. And speaking of hitting on all cylinders, did you see the freaking loop shot? How quick that thing is? Yeah, it is fast. It is fast. Ooh, that buttery smooth there. The spaceship jostling around. I think that was well done. I like the little right mini orbit thing. The right ramp is the right ramp. And then the feed, the subway feed, I don't know, Ken. This thing, it's getting a lot of hype. And if code backs it up, it may be special. I don't see how the code's not going to back it up. We know that Bowen Cairns is working on a rule set, right? You've got Eric Ritchie who's implementing those rules within his ability to code. and I'm sure that there are conversations being had in what direction the pinball machine should take as far as the modes go. So I'm confident that the code's going to be there. Again, for me, it's going to come down to the physical gameplay, because everything else, for the most part, is hitting on all cylinders for me.
    21:11
    Artwork-wise, it's what I would expect from a Rick and Morty pinball machine. It's not anything that's over the top, and I'm willing to look past what I— I think it's very good. Okay, so you think it's very good. I think it's very good. I don't think it's the best I've ever seen but I think it's very good I think it's beautiful the cabinet artwork is just gorgeous it's gorgeous it's seamless between the front of the cab and the right of the cab if you look at it at an angle it looks like one world that's drop dead gorgeous I love that the play field I see time machine with the lightning bolts and the space themes and stuff like that but I'm still I'm liking the color saturation I'm liking the gradient color that is a world versus the upper two-thirds, which is the planet. I like all that. I can do without side blades whenever my order comes. I don't know if I get side blades. I'm not really crazy about those. But Ken Cromwell, Topper Talk. Dude, the topper was awesome. You like the topper? Oh, my. Yeah, when we saw it on the British show, that was cool. Yeah, for what it is, too, if you really think about it, I mean, it's not terribly complex, but it's absolutely effective, and it is fun and it works well with the game. And I like all the little razzle-dazzle. You guys know that, listeners. And when I think of razzle-dazzle, I think of crystals. And that freaking death crystal to the left and which way it's integrated with different colors, that thing pops. That thing is a highlight of the machine. You can call it a toy. I think it's a toy. It's not an interactive toy, but it really sets up the whole left side of the play field. But I'm still worried about that loop. Well, we'll see. Let me take it back just another step when we talk about cosmetics of the game. And it's something that I am trying to figure out if I really, really like or if I would maybe have gone in another direction. And that is like the armor that on the Bloodsucker Edition which is that purple color I know it been discussed prior but after having some time to kind of digest the pinball machine overall has your opinions at all changed on the choice of the color of the armor that on the game
    23:19
    Could you see yourself at any point changing that to better – to appeal to your tastes? Or is that what you would want to have on there originally? I would absolutely change it if it did come as a stainless steel standard. Sure. Since it does come with either that hammered vein gray or the purple powder coat, I likely will not. Having said that, if I had my option, I think the purple may be a good option there. It's just I would have loved to have seen more metallic flake in there. Yeah, that's where I was going to. I do love a metallic flake. I have a buddy here locally, a really good friend, and he likes powder coats, but he hates a flat, matte powder coat. It's not matte. It's glossy. But if it has a metallic feel to it and it has light hits a different way, then he really loves it. But otherwise, he just thinks it's kind of bland. And on this speaker panel, I'm going to have it on there just because. That's my one place is that speaker panel. But I think it opens itself up for something from the mod community, maybe a 3D printed plastic that can flip on there or something. There's an open canvas for that to kind of fill up a little bit. So it's not as concerning to me when I really sit back and look at it. But when I look at it, it looks like that area needs something there. Yeah, I can. But I guess what? It's because I'm going to be picky because why not? I'm a pinball collector. I'm a pinball enthusiast. What else are we going to talk about? Let's talk about something else that I have a little bit of a bone to pick with, and that's over at Stern Pinball, re-vaulting Iron Man vaults. What's going on with Iron Man vaults? So I did not see this coming at all when I think of all the vaults that we could kind of consider them coming out with. And Craig Bobby was covering this story. And you hear Tron. You hear Ghostbusters now being thrown around. You hear Lord of the Rings. Exactly. But we have Iron Man vaults. Now, I don't know about you. You might know about me, Ken. I might know more about you. There's a lot of people that tend to know a lot about you. That's for no shit. They tell me things I don't even know about myself. Exactly. You don't know yourself, Zach. I am that. I didn't know. I thought I liked people. Right. But anyways, so Iron Man Vault. I don't know anybody that's in my kind of circle of local friends that were looking for another Iron Man Vault. And then when I kind of reached out to some other people asking if it was something that they were looking for, it really wasn't. Do you have any speculation or any idea what may have weighed into the decision for Stern to vault a game that they've since vaulted prior? So this is the second, now the third release of Iron Man, and the second time it's been released as a vault. I think in pinball media, it's very hard to be a distributor. But being a distributor, I can help kind of be the conduit of communication here as well. I don't know specifically. I didn't see it coming because distributors weren't informed of this until I believe it was day of or the day before. Oh, so you legitimately, as a distro, you didn't know this was in the pipeline. Correct. I did not. I thought that you did. Nope. Did not know it was coming up. And I don't think Stern would mind me saying that. But, no, they just updated us that, hey, we're going to be running a very small run here of the Iron Man vaults. A lot of them are going to be going overseas, but we do still have some domestically. And then you went to your Iron Man Vault wait list, and then how many people did you have to call? Well, there were some crickets there, but I waved through some of the crickets, put my order in. That's great. And then another small run is going to be done. So you're going to see a small run, listeners, of this Iron Man Vault. It is a gorgeous game, and they sold a ton of them. So I think it's going to sell decent, but was anybody wanting it? No, I don't have a wait list for it. They're going to do another small run probably in the fall and the winter. You're going to see another small run there. But I would say that the reason we're seeing this over Lord of the Rings or Tron, look, guys, Stern knows that everybody wants Lord of the Rings and Tron. They're not dumb. They're very smart in what they do. By them knowing that, this tells me that it was more advantageous to run something like this, maybe because the license itself was a little bit easier to attain. Absolutely. If it's easy to attain and people are still asking for it, why not do a small run because you know you're going to sell them? I think that's what we're dealing with here. It also, and I have no clue, but it makes me hope and wish, that to them a Lord of the Rings vault or to them a Tron vault is going to be something that's a bit more special. So they want to take a little bit more time. if they can attain those licenses, a little bit more time to make it more contemporary or to change it in a way that gives what us hobbyists really want to see. But as we're trying to do a small run of people that are wanting something, I'm kind of glad that they didn't rush out something like a Lord of the Rings without any changes or like a Tron without any changes. So I'm okay with it, but I will say that I'm not sure we will ever see, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, I'm not sure we're ever going to see a vault of Lord of the Rings or of Tron Legacy. Oh, man. Now, that's interesting that you say that because George Gomez, when he came in and he was streaming with us months ago, and it was on Flippin' Out, and we were streaming Star Wars The Pin. And he also said that, hey, listen, Stern knows that you guys want these vaults. And he said, if I remember correctly, we know what you guys want, and at some point you'll probably get it. Okay. But it seems so it I can see both sides, though. I mean, it can't be easy to go out now and just re up a Lord of the Rings or a or a Tron. It's a different board system. Licensing is really tough. I know the licensing is tough on those two those two titles in particular. So if this is something where they're just offering yet another title held, these guys are up to like 12 titles that they're producing, if not more at any given time. So I don't think it's a bad thing. Like, if you like Iron Man, you may want to buy one. If you don't, then you don't have to buy one. That's a great point. Like, if you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. I do think that it opens up doors, and I hope that Stern considers this, that they will be willing to do small runs for games that are now not being produced or it might be out of their licensing. Because for those that are looking for that elusive new in box, you do have those opportunities to grab it. Iron Man was first produced and put out to the market in 2010. They then came out with a vault in 2014. And the vault was really cool because it included your LEDs. It included some of the improved mechanisms. It included that foil cabinet that we've seen on other pinball machines that are usually at a very much higher price. So I think that was cool. And then back now in 2020, they've come out with this again. And they didn't take away anything. So I think that was smart. The MSRP on this is $59.99, Ken, and you should be able to pick one up about $56.99. So all in all, it's still lower priced than the other pros, and it's loved by a lot of people, and a hell of a competition tournament pin if you ask a lot of the competitive players. That's what I've also heard. Now, when we think about the other pinball companies that are on the eve of potentially revealing something, right? We've got American Pinball, and American Pinball is being covered by Brian Kosner, Kos, and he's talking about their next release. We also consider what Ken Rudberg is bringing to the table covering Jersey Jack Pinball because we're anticipating their next release. So we've got two manufacturers. Do we see these games revealed at the next pinball show or the next major show at this point is TPF? But prior to that, you've got the Louisville show that's coming up in the beginning of March. Then you go to TPF for the most part. And then, you know, the next weekend is MGC. Can you see, when you consider that Deep Root's going to be bringing in Raza at least, can you see three manufacturers all bringing new games to Texas Pinball Festival? And if you can, does it make sense for them to all try to share the same spotlight, or does it make sense for them to kind of spread the wealth and go to different shows or reveal outside of shows?
    31:45
    Wow, that was a big question there, Cromwell. Well, because when I think about it, it's like we already know confirmed Deep Roots doing this. And we heard Joe Balzer say, I want to say six weeks ago. Oh, yeah, he said it. And I think that was on the Super Awesome Pinball Show. He said, listen, you're going to be able to play this game at TPF. And what Kaz is saying is that you might be able to take this game with you at TPF, which would be a huge feat. Can you even talk like Craig Bobby said, rumored Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from Stern Pinball. Like, maybe we see that there? Like, what is going on? So, listen, new pins are on my mind. I can't keep track of them all because here I am. I'm talking about Raza, and I'm talking about American Pinball's next game, and I'm talking about Jersey Jack Pinball's next game. I think the thing with Stern now is, like, I'm so used to them coming out with new stuff, it's hard for me to even keep track. So, absolutely my apologies. Let's go back just for a second, and let's get back into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Now, Craig was talking about having some rumored specifics for that game. He talked about a player-controlled diverter.
    32:51
    Like, I think Shadow when I hear that. Yeah, so do I. That was just going to say. He talked of team co-op. I think a T&A, everybody working together towards one common goal through the path of a game. He talked about online connectivity. Holy crap, Jersey Jack Pinball is kind of beta testing some online connectivity. Now, here's the beautiful thing. The beautiful thing is Stern Pinball is smart. And contrary to popular belief that, for the listeners, that was the fourth time I tried to make that statement, they don't tell distributors anything, which I think is smart because I don't want to be blamed for giving away anything. So when I hear rumors of like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles by Stern, or I hear rumors of Guns N' Roses by JJP, or Hot Wheels by American Pinball, Here's the thing, guys. They don't tell us, so I have no clue. Right. It's not a distributor leak this early on where you would have any of that information. But damn it, Ken, if this is true, a little TMNT with those features, I think would be a killer seller. Killer! The features excite me more than the theme, and I'm fine with that. because for me to be heavily vested into a theme, it makes me become ultra cynical to how everything is implemented. I'm going to start calling you Crane. Yeah, whatever. I don't even know what that means. What does that mean? I don't know, Crane. Is that TMNT stuff? See, I don't even know. There you go. You know what? To be fair, shout out to Dennis Creasel. He would totally be Crane. You'd be more of a, since you're hating on TMNT, you'd be more of a Shredder, I think. I'm not hating on the theme. It's just if it never came out, and actually it already has but obviously it's not the machine that people want so it warrants a second effort but yeah i mean if it's tmnt whatever i'd almost prefer it to be uh my little pony because i literally know more about my little pony than i do tmnt because of my daughters so if for some reason we could get online connectivity with team co-op together picture this picture starting up with three of your buddies around the world a game of of whatever i don't care if it's TMNT at this point, but the online connectivity and team co-op, think if you could do that together. Player one is on Australia, player two, and you get one ball. The system knows to give you one ball and it tells you, it kicks it out when it's ready for you to play ball two. And everybody just takes turns and they try to get through this game together as a co-op, as the different turtles. It would be fun too. You could even go ahead and if four people were playing together after ball one, you could simply take the highest score from the four and apply that towards the efforts that you're trying to make and i think leveling up and advancing and that sort of thing is so heavily prevalent right now in the way that people approach video gaming you know it's about achievements and leveling up it would be so beneficial in my opinion to implement something like that within online coding because it's going to you know create something different for those that are used to what they're uh getting in pinball machines but then like if you're calling to the youth. I mean, this is the kind of stuff that interests them. It is the achievement-based kind of thing, and it would be fun to collaborate. Like you said, take it down. But hold up. Can they do all of this at once? No, and they won't do all of it at once. Team co-op, online connectivity, player-controlled... How do you even feel, let's say a future game, whether it's Stern or anybody else, has a player-controlled diverter? How do you feel about other mechanics that you control rather than just the flippers or a magnet. I'm fine with it. Like, the magnet is where I was going to go. Don't sound too hot about it. It's not anything that's huge for me. I mean, if you're able to control something with an extra button, and usually when I have something as simple as a MagnaSafe, I very rarely will ever activate it because I'm just not thinking to use it. So I guess to get used to it, and I haven't owned a Shadow for a super long period of time, so for me to really appreciate what a player controlled diverter can do on the long term again i would have to have more exposure to it so i'm with you i'm a bit mixed as well some of the stuff that we've seen in the past that are that is player controlled i'm with you magna saves hit and miss for me right because my mind just isn't there i i can't say that i don't like it though because on the shadow one of my favorite games ever made and in my opinion brian netty's masterpiece i think it works really really well so i'm mixed we'll have to see how it's integrated if it's ever integrated into a game but i'm still open to the innovation that it can bring so yeah so we have teenage mutant ninja turtles uh we have jjp possibly i do not think we're going to see anything from stern at tpf if i had to guess uh we're going to see that probably right after uh jjp jjp i don't know if we're gonna see the rumors are guns and roses what if i were to tell you king cromwell american pinball share they told us it's gonna be a tpf it's gonna be a tpf right what if i told you that my bet is that we're going to see jjp's next game before tpf i think it would make sense because then now you're jumping out in front of all these reveals and you snatch that money up on your order process so i could see that happen i would also have to speculate that that game is it possible that game is already on the line or being assembled at jersey jack but now if i were to guess just knowing the way manufacturing is over there i'd say no i wish okay fair enough fair enough but no uh they're selling wonkas pretty well, but I think the time is a transition over. Maybe they do that in the next month. Maybe we see it. But, man, we saw Wonka at MGC. We didn't see it at TPF. We saw Yellow Brick Road. So it's really tough to know what they are going. Is everybody running away from TPF as a reveal show? I don't know. But in all fairness, if you look at Jersey Jack prior, their prior releases, you saw Pirates revealed, I believe, at Expo. You saw Dialed In revealed at Expo. So I think for them, because they do have the creative team here in regards to programmers and music and all that kind of – I mean, it's just very easy for them all to drive to Milwaukee to kind of represent Jersey Jack to reveal a game versus trying to haul everything to Texas for a grand reveal. They can rely on distributors to bring those games. Milwaukee is a mixed gaming type of convention. Yeah, it is. I think that you're going to see in 2020 especially manufacturers kind of going the CERN route. We don't have to have a grand reveal at a game convention. I think that sucks if that's where the direction goes. And I spoke about this before. The pinball enthusiast goes to a pinball show because they're supporting pinball and they're interested in pinball. Give the people that are supporting pinball the thrill of experiencing a game reveal. To me, they might not rely on the success or failure of a pin from a company standpoint. Just out of courtesy and appreciation for those that are buying your products, give them something that they can look forward to at a show. I don't know why you would go out of your way not to do that. I don't get it. I think I disagree here because using that as an example, we're lumping in playability and being able to play this damn thing. What if, Ken, what if they said to hell with show reveals, but here's what we're going to do. we are going to have an awesome promo we're going to have an awesome panel discussion by the pinball show of course and then we're going to have a stream live by flipping out pinball we're going to have that all right there and then within two weeks just like stern pinball they're going to start shipping then i don't think you hear people complain as much because people just want to play these things and if they're readily available at launch like they did with stranger things or shortly after, I don't think us as hobbyists complain as much anymore. It's that damn weight.
    40:55
    But now you're talking about, all right, so an online reveal is fine, but I think the first place that people are able to get their hands on the game should be at pinball-dedicated shows. You should be able to flip on a game. Okay, well, what's your choice, though? If you had to pick, I'd rather play it at an upcoming show or I would rather be able to buy it and have it in my house in two weeks, a week, or immediately. Which one are you picking? It's hard to say. Personally, I would like to. Not me. I'm getting my house. I disagree. I would like to play the game before I made a decision on purchasing the game. Oh, that's no 2016. No, it's not, man. To me, it's the sensible thing to do. Now, I'm in a very, and I'm just going to say this. They're going to be on location.
    41:37
    Yeah, but I mean, listen. So I'm in St. Charles, Illinois. I'm 40 miles west of Chicago. For me to really get into a location-type play, I'm going into the city for the most part. to play anything new. Poor guy's shivering in Alaska right now. 40 miles. He's a hobbyist. He's like, 40 miles.
    41:53
    I would love that. Well, for somebody that really likes to leave the second floor sometimes. No, it's just one of those things. And I've been in a fortunate situation, whereas with you allowing us to stream the new games for Flippin' Out on our streaming channel, I have not really had to venture far out to play anything new because it's dropped at my door and we stream it. I get enough time on it. But I'm thinking if I did not have that access, I would still like to be able to play a game without relying on a pinball stream or without relying on a pin side, mashing a game up and then it tainting my opinion. I like to play a game. Now, if I'm not close to a pinball show, then what does that do for me? It does nothing because I still can't play because I'm not going to a pinball show. So I guess depending on how you yeah, depending on how you look at it. I mean, there are pros and cons. I just still think that that these game reveals would be so much more fun. And ideally, if you could do them at pinball shows instead of online or even at CES, which is not something that many people are going for for pinball. I think the key that Stern has figured out, and they're maximizing on it better than anybody else combined, is announcement, release. That's it. The lower the time in between those two events, the better success of sales. and I don't care what you are presenting or revealing. Shorten the time, there's more sales. Let's look at American Pinball, though, because if what they're saying comes to fruition, not only are they going to reveal a game at a pinball show, but they're going to let you physically buy the game and take it with you. It's like the best of all worlds. And it's at the biggest pinball show, I think, in the world, right? TPF, probably the most, at least the most well-known. I don't know. I don't see it happening. You don't see them revealing and selling that day? Nope. Don't see it happening. Sure, I respect Kaz for getting that information. He's pretty close to them, but I don't see that happening. Maybe that's just because I'm being left out of the loop, but I've been told about being able to sell any damn games at TPF. I know that they'll probably have their own booth, or they will be set up at the – maybe Chris at Kingpin. I don't know where American Pinball is going to be really set up at. But, no, I don't see them having those up in the box. Well, there's some changes going on at American Pinball right now. There's some staff changes. New COO. Yes, there's other changes going on behind the scenes. I don't know how well publicized that is yet. Well, let's break it here. Hey, only on the Pinball Show. They're making moves, and I can only imagine it's because they think that it's increasing their ability to move forward as a company. I mean, you don't make changes necessarily if everything is working out 100%, so I can't speculate as to what the decisions are. But how can you buy them from distributors at the show? Like distributors all drive semi-trucks down there? It just doesn't make any sense. Are they going to ship the games down there? I figure they would have show games, like maybe five of them, and then those show games could be packed up and taken with you. I mean, that's the only way that I can think of. Because American Pinball will not sell direct. It's not like you can call American Pinball like you would a spooky pinball and say, hey, this is the game I want. Can you take care of me? And Jersey Jack still does that too, right? You can buy direct from Jersey Jack pinball. Yeah. So that's not the case with American Pinball. So anyways. I have no clue. No clue. Time will tell here because we are at the final countdown. We are about, I don't know, less than two months now from TPF. Holy moly. It's coming up quick. A lot of exciting stuff and a lot of changes you're going to see and hear between now and then. Speaking of excitement and changes and something that really weighed heavily on my mind after I had seen it. Did I accidentally send you that picture? Sorry about that. No, you didn't. I don't think that was accidentally. That's why we had to pause. Haggis Pinball.
    45:49
    The Haggis Hammer. That's what I'm calling this story. We get a video that gets released kind of like press release style announcement from Damien and Haggis showing them using and abusing their approach to pinball play fields. And those play fields coming out completely unscathed even with cycle testing up to 800 rolls not a scuff on the play field Now when we think about what Deep Root was suggesting and it was the whole we could take a sledgehammer to our playfield and nothing is going to affect it. But it seems like Haggis has not only taken that idea, but they've beat them to the punch as far as displaying that to the public. They showed it. They proved it. They did. They didn't take it to Houston Expo and said, look, this isn't a real playfield, it's a Merco, but I promise you in four months from now, we're going to have one that you can hammer. Well, and I'm wondering if this was something, because when you think of a hammer at the playfield, you think of Deep Root, right? And it's something that I've speculated on. What would they be doing to their playfields to make them different? And I think everybody at one point has figured out maybe some type of a polycarbonate over laminate that would cover everything to kind of protect the playfield from underneath, whether it was reverse printed or printed on wood or a sandwich of this, that, or the other thing. But now there's no speculation with Haggis because they show us exactly what they're doing. They're very open to given all of the description of how it's made up and everything. I was surprised to hear that. It was very there was complete transparency, which I appreciated. And if you don't mind, if I can just say this really quick. And this is no disrespect to Haggis, but at the time they had announced their company and I was still co-hosting my other podcast. I don't believe there was one time on our show that we ever mentioned or discussed Haggis Pinball. And at the time, it was because a lot of startup companies were having issues and just went away. So I didn't want to invest any additional time into another up and coming company that I thought ultimately might not pan out. And at this point, why did we waste time covering it? Now, I see this game revealed for the first time and it was at Texas Pinball Festival. And I walked by it, Zach, and I looked at it and I said, that's that's cool that they did it. But I saw another company do that with Mafia. Right. That I looked at it and it hasn't really gotten off the ground as far as mass production. I figured that was the same with Haggis. Now, when I see this play field video, I don't know what it is, but something clicked with me. And it was that this guy who doesn't have any of the pinball experience that the other companies have has been more innovative within the last 18 months with pinball than the rest of those companies have as of late. And it got me excited to the point where it's like I'm not going to say I'm going to blindly support Damien and his efforts and his team, but it really put them on the radar for me. And it really is making me want to jump on a game. And it's really making me want to learn more about the company and what they have to offer. And I find myself going from zero interest to I hope that this works out and I hope that this game is fun because I could see myself getting behind not only the story but the person and the game. And that's what pinball is about for me. It's about fun. And I can see this potentially as being a sleeper title that could be released here shortly. Now, after I say all this. Are you going to want to buy this game? I don't know. I have to play the game. Okay. But after I say all this, am I crazy for making this kind of emotional change of heart and interest based on one video? Or is there something here that I'm just late to the party on?
    49:43
    Is that a rhetorical question? It can be whatever you want, man. I want to answer the question. Dude, I'm out of breath talking about it. My heart elevated a little bit. I got a little bit excited, and I apologize. Well, Ken, I'm going to speak on the behalf of my client over here, the devil.
    49:57
    The advocates here. Yeah. I could have done Keanu Reeves. So I think you are responding to something that is very exciting and something that could potentially be a game changer in the entire industry of pinball and the history of pinball as we know it. but pump the brakes a little bit because I have concerns with what I saw on that video. Okay, and what would those concerns be? All right, here's some of the things that we still need to consider. This is a company, as you talked about, a very young company that has not produced anything quite yet. Fair enough. This is also an individual that runs this company, that owns and operates this company, that just got into pinball manufacturing 18 months ago. Yes. Not to say that he can't do it, not to say that he is the Einstein of pinball manufacturing. It's just we don't know yet. The other thing that I would be cautious for listeners out there to get too excited here, what I saw was something that's new. we have no clue what this product will do over the next year over the next five years over the next 20 years i've heard some podcasters already talking about it and saying essentially you're going to have a play field that's going to last for 20 to 30 years and not to uh whoa whoa whoa we we can't tell the future we don't know that we don't know i'm a couple points here I do not like plastic protectors Those pinball protectors Have you seen those? Sure, yeah So the ball is going to play differently Yeah A little bit on a plastic protector Than it is on a clear coated wood play field That's something to take into consideration I don't know if you can have any material Other than wood and clear coat That feels similar or feels as good So I'll take the Ken Cromwell approach here I have to play it first The second thing being a little bit of a little bit of tricks going on there when we seen that ball rolling 30 000 wow what happened schmigel just came in here yeah what do you mean tricks there's some trickery there some sleight of hand is that what you're suggesting it's intended but when we see that demonstration the ball rolling 30 000 times or whatnot i think it was 800 000 times let's take it to 2.5 million there is a difference listeners between a rolling ball and a skidding ball we know that when it comes to physics of a pinball machine when you hit that ball with a powered flipper the first the first movement of that ball is in fact not a roll it is a skid to a roll which Which increases the friction between the ball and the play field. Friction on Lexan or acrylic or whatever it means would be a higher susceptibility of a smudge or what we see, the hazing on the ACDC or we see the hazing on different things. So rolling is fine, but that's not what a pinball does. Pinball skids, especially in more contemporary machines. That's true. And the other thing to really shut this thing down. Sorry, Damien. I love it. You are a beautiful, wonderful human being. I'm just playing the devil's advocate here.
    53:25
    Plastic yellows. Stuff like this yellow. How do we know this doesn't yellow over time? If it yellows, it's going to look like shit.
    53:35
    You lump all that in with the fact that it is a pretty basic layout. It's cool. I like what's going on there. But I don't know if this sells more games. I think that this prepares the industry for a huge change if it is all that is being presented. But at this point in time, it's a wait and see for me. I know our buddy Greg Bone is a big, big fan of this game. He said it's just simply a blast, and he loves the rules that's already been implemented into it. But I don't know. I'm not sold quite yet. This smaller startup company out of Australia with these concepts and these designs that kind of beat Deep Root to the punch, and Deep Root being their own self-proclaimed kind of industry powerhouse in the making, I enjoyed the gamemanship there because now if the sledgehammers dropped on a playfield over in San Antonio on the Wednesday prior to TPF, I think the first thing people will think of now at this point is not that the playfield is indestructible, but somebody else already did it. We're going to yell and say, seen that. And I wonder, the gamemanship is something that we are going to see more of between these pinball companies. And it's entertaining to say the least. Assuming that all this works out, though, I think the evolution of the playfield, it makes sense to start utilizing some type of polycarbonate over laminate. Assuming it's not going to alter the way the ball plays as much. We heard Python Angelo, as he spoke on the TopCast pinball podcast, saying that back in the day that they were using diamond plate, the reason polycrylic and diamond plate weren't being used anymore was because of the longevity of the playfields. They needed those playfields to deteriorate so that distributors would sell to operators replacement games and not have a pinball machine that would last forever putting those companies out of business. And that's when there was nothing on the playfields, and the playfield swaps were a lot simpler. I just, that's, no manufacturer is creating playfields nowadays that wear out. I agree. It's just, that's not, that's not what 2020 pinball is. Well, and that's not where I was going with that. I was going whereas they realized back then how effective polycarbonate could be on protecting a playfield. So here we are, fast forward 30 years later, and now we're seeing some companies, at least one that we know of that's going to implement this. And I think it's an exciting time. I'm not married to the wooden play field. Okay, let's do this or that real quick, Ken. Let's do this or that. This or that. A play field that's made of wood that has the feel that you love of pinball, but over time has the susceptibility to do the little imperfections, the little bubbling here or there, the little that, or a play field that is indestructible and will not cause one damn smudge, one hey nothing it will look beautiful in 20 years but it feels much much different to a worse degree than your wooden play yeah this or that no i would go i would go with this i would rather have the original playfields as they're being manufactured i would as well it's just the season there's so many variables from playfield to playfield now and company to company that it sometimes i get the feeling like it's the lottery and you just hope that you've got a winning ticket and that you're not forced into a situation where you felt like you know maybe you invest a little bit more and didn't get what you expected from the purchase. And look, listeners, I know that this is going to be misconstrued, and this is going to be taken by other people. You're going to hear it. I'm marking it right now. You guys, you'll see. It's going to say, oh, here's a distributor. He's just pumping what he's selling. And no, honestly, this is- No, you're being fair. You're being fair. Yeah, this is not it. What I'm saying is I don't want to lose the feeling of pinball, but I am all for every manufacturer that I sell for or that I don't sell for, I am for them continuing to improve the quality of these play fields because it is an issue that I feel like needs to be addressed immediately. I'm with you there, but I don't want to play on something that doesn't feel like pinball. That's all. That's it. You heard Joe Kamenkow discussing play field issues too, and that was on the Super Awesome Pinball podcast, but he also discussed a few other things that really kind of caught our ears zach god your segway you're magnificent you like that huh i was practicing today and i know that you're under the weather right now and that right there is what we call an a-plus transition nothing kills the transition like calling out the transition of course it's well last time i transitioned you had to bring me back because i forgot half of what you wanted to discuss on stern so that was edited out nobody even knew about that as we find our way here so What are you talking about? The Pinball Show talks about themes that are like these huge talking points for people that have dream themes. That was Harry Potter, right? It was Back to the Future as something that he teased and something that really shocked me that he had said. And if you haven't listened to the show, go back and listen to it. It's their last episode that they have up. But the one thing that he discussed that was shocking to me was his really not thinking that the Goonies would make a popular pinball theme. Yeah, that's madness. That's one of my dream things. It's stupid. And it was weird because I know that, I mean, Joe Kamenkow and Roger Sharp, right? These are the two guys that when I think of who's out there getting these big licenses, who's getting these themes that we love and having them sign on with these pinball manufacturers, to hear Joe say, no, the Goonies, like Stranger Things kind of already did it. The Goonies isn't anything. It's not a theme for pinball. It just blew my mind. I'm like, wow. So either I'm way out of touch with what I think is a big pinball theme, or I'll agree to disagree with Mr. Kamenka. I think that maybe that's what happens when you know a theme is really good, but you're not able to get it and somebody else gets it.
    59:36
    Oh, okay. I didn't even think of that aspect. Yeah, that's what that was. Look, Joe Kamenka, I respect more than I do a lot of people in pinball because I think he's a freaking beast. He's snarky. He's confident. he gets shit done i love the guy's uh line of work i love what he's able to bring to pinball as i'm in pinball now i love what he's able to bring to that but this he knows that goonies is good joe stop just stop it joe come on joe good times we'll see so you think we see a uh goonies pinball machine where in 2020 you see that as coming as a potential theme within the next 10 years in pinball i would say uh i would put a hundred dollars on that we will see a goonies pinball machine within the next five years within the next five years okay so what about harry potter do we see harry potter within the next five years five years is gonna be tough harry potter is gonna get done as joe kamikow said he said look it like it'll get done but it takes a little bit of work and you almost have to plug away you have to chop wood like you do on metallica You've got to chop wood until you get to that gold mine that is going to be Harry Potter. And he's been working on it. We know that there are, isn't there some type of, there's all kinds of different media, like gaming stuff that's Harry Potter related. So it will happen. What we'll get from it, I don't know. But I think Harry Potter will happen at some point in time. I think it's safe to assume then with Joe Kamenkow talking about him really being involved in pinball simply to keep that fun relationship with Gary Stern, then any big license that Joe Kamenkow is going to reel in is going to be a Kapow or a Kamenkow-Stern release. You're not going to see Harry Potter if Kamenkow goes out and gets it. It's not going to Jersey Jack. It's not going to go to Deep Root. It's not going to go to American Pinball. It's going to go to Stern. I would think so, just the way he was talking about Mr. Stern and his relationship. I don't think he's going anywhere else. I always thought, why doesn't Joe Kamikawa just have his own manufacturing business? But the way that he was talking in that interview over at the Super Awesome Pinball Show, it sounds like they're pretty close, and they like every now and then to work with one another, and that's what we're seeing with Kapow Pinball. But he also talked about one of my other dream things. What's that? Crying.
    62:00
    What? How are you going to deal with me? I'm already having a good time, man. I'm already having a good time. We're halfway through episode one, and I haven't wanted to jump off here. Back to the future, Cromwell. Back to the future.
    62:17
    Are you kidding? For real? No, I think it would be a fun pin. It would be a fun theme. I'm not one that's like, oh, my gosh, if they only did Back to the Future, it would bring my whole pinball dream to come true. It would be a solid theme, but I don't care if they don't make it. I just don't. You're the kind of guy that doesn't like ice cream or theme parks, I guess. No, right? No, it's just not a – I like Back to the Future of the movie, and I don't know. It doesn't – it wouldn't disappoint me if it never got made again. If it was made, I would – that and Goonies. Those are my last two that are at the top of the – I would rather see Goonies than Back to the Future. All right, so this or that. This, Back to the Future, that, Goonies. Okay, I would take the whole this or that segment, piss on it, burn it, and throw it into a dumpster and a ditch because I will not choose between Goonies or Back to the Future. I think they're both some of the greatest licenses. Now, I will tell you this. Give me Goonies or Back to the Future over Harry Potter any day of the week. Oh, and Harry Potter is – I will not lose a minute of sleep if Harry Potter never comes out. I've never seen a Harry Potter movie. I've never read a sentence of a Harry Potter book. but I can appreciate those that have, and that's why I think that it makes sense to bring it into pinball. I'd buy one. I want a Harry Potter pinball machine, but the other ones are just that. Those are my jam. You know what, though? If you would have asked me two months ago, Goonies or Rick and Morty, I'm like, Rick and Morty, I would not lose a minute of sleep if Rick and Morty was ever made. And then after becoming familiar with what that has to offer and how it can implement itself within the pinball, it's like it's perfect for me so for me it's just lack of exposure to get me excited about harry potter but as somebody that's seen you know back to the future several times it just doesn't you know i don't know it's just there's an interesting question then we could move on yep so we know that all of the other kapow games that is batman 66 and the beatles that collaboration with stern pinball god beatles is good uh that collaboration always includes christopher franchi as the artist Here's the question to you, Mr. Cromwell. Do we see Christopher Franchi on the next Kapow pinball title?
    64:32
    I would say if it was up, it depends on who that decision is up to. I do know this. If Back to the Future came out, regardless of who made it, it would be trending up.
    64:43
    Can I? Please, can I? You ready, buddy? for the first time on the Pinball Network and debuting on the Pinball Show. What you got for us, Zach? Oh, my gosh. What I got for you is kids running f***ing upstairs.
    65:01
    F***! Oh, that's awesome. That's a new segment only on the Pinball Show. It's called Kids Running F***ing Upstairs.
    65:10
    Things that have frustrated you through the week. What were your kids doing running upstairs? That's awesome. Tapping on the car door window.
    65:19
    She's back in the saddle again, ladies and gentlemen It's the pinball show Pinball Market Trends Damn it, that felt good Got it out, buddy I'm excited Let's do it, let's hear it It's been too long I need a fan now You got a fan right here, buddy Am I in the menopause of pinball podcasting? I've been doing this a couple years now. All right. Having a hot flash this week. Now, trading off this week is Stern's Elvira House of Horse. How about it? Uh-huh. And you know why? Not only. You can't find them on the secondary market. Sure, you can find them, but they're holding value really well. There's not a number of them that you can choose from in your region. They're kind of hard to get on the secondary market. In addition to that, Cromwell, the code release, .90, is f***ing huge. Yeah, that's pretty big. A lot of enhancements. And when you're talking about Vagra, you've got to have those enhancements. You know what sucks is that game just left here. Fuseholder from Pinside picked that up yesterday before I got to play the new code. Yeah, he did. So when we're talking House of Horrors, it is training up because of that code. But in particular, I'd have to say that the LE, the limited edition version, as well as the signature edition. Yes, you heard that here as well. Those are maintaining value. They're harder and harder to find. And if you want to get an LE on the secondary market, you're spending in the 9,000s. Damn near what you were going to spend brand new. We've not even seen one of the signature editions come up on the secondary market that I know of. So just by numbers. Don't lie here, Ken. I love the game. It makes sense that it's trending up. Yep, yep. I don't think that game was given proper credit upon release, and it just keeps getting better. I loved it from release, and I knew. I said, just wait, Zach. Bite your tongue, Zach. You can see it, but others can't. This is The Hobbit. No, it's not The Hobbit.
    67:28
    You're not going to get that discussion out of me. You wait for Dennis to jump on with you next week. It's not going to be me. That's right. Oh, I miss my din-din. Elvira House of Whores is training up, as well as another Stern Pinball machine. I'm on the Stern Pinball hype train. Boom, boom, boom. Bye bye. Bye. You all love that. Don't you did you miss me? Did you miss me? I know some of you little turds on pin so I'd miss me. I love it in your comments Ghostbusters stern pinballs Ghostbusters is trending up up up for a pro $5,000 that's not unheard of you see a $5,000 Ghostbusters Pro maybe with some mods and enhancements. It's gonna sell
    68:07
    Snap there. Damn, it's gonna be sold within a day or two a A premium? That's Ken Cromwell's... That's my jam right there, Ghostbusters Premium Magnuslings. That's Ken Cromwell's model of choice, a premium. We're seeing those in the mostly upper sixes. They were in mid-sixes about a year ago, but after this code release, upper sixes to easily $7,000 to the $7,300 range, depending on what kind of modifications you have on there, as well as the condition of it. So $7,000 to $7,500 maybe even for a premium. and got L.E.s. Ooh, L.E.s. That's an $8,000 pin, if not more. Yeah. That's crazy. That's still eight grand on the L.E.s. It's retaining value. I mean, what if you had like a new in box? Would that be even more? Oh, I like the little foreshadowing there, Kim. Maybe something to talk about later, huh? I like that. Unfortunately, oh, poor, poor Jersey Jack pinball style tin. It's twinning down. Oh, what a game, man. And what a game Dialed In is, Pat Lawler. We don't ever hear from him. And then Jersey Jack's like, oh yeah, we've retained him. He's a designer here at Jersey Jack Pinball. And he's coming up with an original theme. We all get all hot and heavy and horny We not horny We don get horny But we all excited And boom here comes Dialed In It a hell of a game It got a lot in it On the secondary market now in 2020 you seen that fall mid That's right. Guys, gals, an LE, mid-sevens. We're no longer at $8,000 for a Dialed In LE, and that's kind of sad seeing that drop so much, as well as American Pinballs, Oktoberfest. for October Fest is tapped out a little bit here on the secondary market see what I did there $5,700 what's that typo let me see $5,700 for an October Fest $5,700 $6,200 what you're going to get that on secondary market which doesn't help me at all as a distributor yeah it's more rare than Pirates of the Caribbean in JJP, isn't it? Octoberfest at this point?
    70:15
    You're actually right. Yeah, think about that. Good call there. So for all you rarity seekers, $5,700, $6,200. You know what? I don't see that dipping much below that. We're now in the Houdini secondary market levels, and we got another machine coming out by American Pinball. So maybe this is just the typical cycle that we're going to see. A little tip, if I could just give you American Pinball, a little tip. I've told you this before, but I'll tell you publicly again. If you're going to see this type of trend, limit the games. Limit them. We're only going to sell, you know, hundreds. Limit them. Just limit them.
    70:57
    Sounds like they've been limited on their own. Oh, so true there, co-host Gromwell. So true. And I can't leave you guys from the Pinball Show Pinball Market Trends without giving you a little bit of taste, a little suckle, if you will, of a deal of the week. Bye, bye, bye!
    71:21
    Sorry. A little suckle. Oh, my God. This is so different from hosting special. This is not Bill Webb. I'm just listening to my mouth open. And it's not because I'm winning. And I'm not suckling anything. It's like a reflex now. All right. Oh, Mr. Kramer, Mr. Bye-Bye-Bye, they missed you so much. They went like a whole month without you, a bunch of controversy. And we've seen your hallmark Bye-Bye-Bye everywhere in pin-side threads and Facebook messages. So this week, I'm going to Bye-Bye-Bye, Bye-Bye-Bye. Yes, it's a term that everybody uses now. And we're going to use that in particular this week, Ken Cromwell, for a Johnny Mnemonic that can be found in Jacksonville, North Carolina, over on Pennside by the handle of King Chaos.
    72:14
    That was actually a solid username, King Chaos. Jacksonville, North Carolina, he's got a Johnny Mnemonic. This is a bit selfish of me to do this as a deal of the week, but at $3,400, not a screaming deal when you hear Johnny Mnemonic, but just wait, wait, real quick here. everything works perfect that's always a plus you don't need to get no it was recently fully shopped you know i know that noise yeah it's like it's so embarrassing when you turn on your games you're like you guys want to play some pins and you hear you're like hey it's like take care of your games that's right it's like the first thing i think of johnny mnemonic glove not not working right there buddy how dare you invite me over with a credit dot what is what is the matter with you Look at that. It's the shame. Yes. The dot of shame. No, this thing's been recently shopped fully, thoroughly cleaned, right? Tightens rubbers throughout, LEDs throughout. And if you look at it, the side of the cabinet, at least he showed a picture of the left side, no fade to the red. Now, on the front of the cabinet, I do see a little orange instead of red, so there's some fade there. That's pretty typical on this title, guys and gals. but at $3,400 with a pretty clean outside cabinet that you can fix the front decal to and a very clean Johnny Mnemonic that's been put LED and Titan rubber, $3,400 I think is a deal of the week. Buy, buy, buy! And selfishly I put that on here this week because I want this particular title and I wouldn't mind picking this up for $3,400. So if anybody's out there in the North Carolina area and is willing to pick it up and meet me or something. Maybe somebody come to Louisville or something. Somebody help me. I want that. So pick this up for me, people. There's also a nice one out in California for $4,500 or $4,400. That's a little steep, but it does come with all new cabinet decals in the color DMD. If somebody can broker this deal with me, it'd be much appreciated. I'd buy, buy, buy on your friendship. How about that? We have another deal of the week this week. I don't know how valuable that has been lately. No, it's no shit. With that friendship comes other responsibilities.
    74:23
    We have our second deal of the week this week, and that is a Stranger Things Pro. And not just any, but the Bone Man's over in Louisville, Kentucky. Greg Bone, Stranger Things Pro, in which Flippin' Out Pinball did sell it to him. He's turning around and selling the thing. Why? Do you guys really want to know? It's because he's a weirdo. That's why. He loves this game, but he's like afraid. He's like, I don't know if it loses value. I'm going to lose a lot of money, and right now I'm just losing a little bit of money. That's his justification. I don't get it, but that's Greg Bone. I don't know what to tell you. He's dropped this thing to $49.99. At $49.99, that's not a deal of the week. At $5,800 listed for these new, that's a steal of the week. Buy, buy, buy! It is a really good deal. As somebody that, like, I like the game, it's a fun game. Under $5,000, even if it's a buck under, it's a solid deal. Jeez, when you have Metallica sitting in the 5000 range or stuff like that, I messaged you guys. I'm in so much love with Stranger Things pinball. You can call me a shill all you want. I don't care. This is me telling the truth. Take it for what you want. But I messaged you, and I think I messaged Greg, and I said I'm in such love with the Stranger Things game. I got the LA. Love it. That I would take this game over right now. Medieval Madness. Attack from Mars. Monster Bash. I'm going down to the Pinside 100. Twilight Zone, I promise you I would Metallica, yeah I would, Deadpool, yeah ACDC, yep, I'd take it over ACDC, Addams Family, Star Trek I could keep going on and on this is a winner, but nobody sees it now, they will, just mock my word, they will and at $49.99, go ahead and buy that from Greg Bone, he keeps his things in like museum quality because he's weird like that, so you're going to get a good pin at a fraction of the cost and that was your deal of the week bye bye bye and Ken Cromwell listeners out there that was your pinball show pinball market friends everyone smoking cigarettes now after that delivery that was pretty sweet man how did it feel to get it out it felt like the ultimate climax with a group of buddies you had some build up going there so it had to feel good unleash a little bit on everybody Usually it's a once a week kind of thing But when I have to wait a month Golly I've got a lot built up It was good You know I think that I wanted to address something real quick With Stranger Things Okay So the two games that I'm going to right now Exclusively Are Beatles That's such a great game guys If you Again I come back to where It just kind of priced me out of owning it But it's an awesome game to play I love it You streamed it for a distributor You're not allowed to like it Sorry No that's not true So this is the thing. If I stream the game for a distributor, I'm not streaming it right now, and I'm still talking about how awesome it is. It's not like – there's no – I don't get commission on any of this stuff, so it's whatever. That is true. Sorry about that, kid. And this is what I would do, honestly, if I didn't like Beatles. I probably wouldn't go on the stream and say that the game sucks. But I've been on stream, and I've talked about things that I don't like about games. It is what it is. You wanted to stream it last week. Yeah, I wouldn't go out of my way to say something was good if I didn't think it was because, I mean, that's just lying. I'm not a liar. so I would put my credibility on me I swear to God I'm not shilling anything ever poor Steve Beatty was thinking about buying a Beatles he contacted me and was like yeah so this Beatles what are those going for you know what man I've got a crazy Steve Beatty story for you if you want to hear it and I think we might be able to tie it in with a brand new segment that we've never done on any pinball podcast oh my gosh I'm excited let's do it alright you ready to hear a Steve Beatty story I'm always ready to hear Steve B. So for those of you who don't know, Steve B. is a local guy, and he helps us on the Flippin' Out streaming on Monday nights for Monday Night Pinball. And if you want to catch those streams, you can go to Flippin' Out Pinball on Twitch and look us up, and we're there. Long story short, he's a personal friend of mine, and he's been buying and selling pinball machines since I've known him. This is how I got to know the guy in the hobby. The dawn of time, yeah. Yes, yes, exactly. Steve ends up buying a pinball machine, a group of pins from somebody locally. one of the pins come back and he's going through it yesterday and he gets into the coin door and there are three cases inside all right and he's like what the heck is this because we've all owned pinball machines where you you open it up and maybe there's some magazines in there or there's like a knife or i mean whatever i found weird things we all have dildo maybe i've not found a dildo in a game before so uh and if i did i don't know how what i would do that's where i store mine but you know okay so why has that happened to you have you found that No, I haven't. Okay. I was like, wow, I didn't. I just didn't make sense. It seems like something kind of funny that you would find in there. Well, you don't want to get coiled dust on that. That could be bad.
    79:15
    In any event. Bro, geez. So he gets these three cases out. He opens them up in their firearms, their guns. Oh, my God. For real? Yeah. So he's texting me this, and he's texting me the pictures, and it's like these old guns in these cases. And I'm like, first thing, it was like, okay, somebody murdered somebody, threw these in a pinball machine. Cops never thought to open up a pinball machine. These are like murder weapons. The Jimmy Hoffa gun. Right. So I'm like, Steve, I'm like, he goes, I don't know what to do. And I said, I don't know what you should do either. You should have said touch them. Touch them. Yeah. Could you put your fingerprints all over them?
    79:50
    And I said, or reach out to the owner and just touch base. Because if he realizes later that you have his guns and it was something that was like evidence, like you could just, it's just a bad situation. So long story short, he contacts the owner. Oh, that's nice. And he says, yeah, he says, listen, I own this game. There's some guns in here. They're in a case. And the guy was so appreciative, and I'm going to tell you why. It was because those guns were his father's guns who fought in World War II. Okay? And his father was awarded the Purple Heart when he was battling in Okinawa, Japan. Wow. So he stored these World War II guns that his father used in the war inside of the pinball machine so that his kids would never get to them. And they've been in there for so long that he forgot. So he was so happy that, one, that he remembered or that somebody brought it to his attention that the guns existed and that he was in possession and to get them back. And I thought it was such a good gesture from Steve to do this. No joke. Because he could have sold these things. I don't know. World War II guns? He was going to go out in the yard and shoot them. They had value, not only sentimental value, but they had monetary value. They were historical guns from that time period. So what I was thinking was this gentleman, his father receives the Purple Heart, right? So what if we go ahead and we give Steve an award for his kindness within the pinball community, and this can be the first inaugural awarded prize to this individual, and we can do this every week. Let's offer up the Silver Heart Award this week going to Steve Beattie. Look at that. Congratulations, Steve. The silver heart. We'll give you the silver heart. And then as people in the community do things that come across as kind and of the utmost respect, we can continue to award the silver heart. The silver heart. And we can make a wall of the silver heart award winners so that you can refer back to any month or any year or any week, and you can see who was given the silver heart. Now, if you have suggestions for somebody, right, that one that should be awarded, and the silver heart is simply this. It's like the silver ball. It's pinball, right? It's something that was done within the pinball community that showed kindness, showed going out of the way. Please email us your suggestions, and you can email us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. And in the subject line, just place Silverheart, and then we'll know what that is all about. And we'll be able to make that person be considered for the Silverheart Award for any giveaway. You know what I think we should also maybe consider at the end of the year? Maybe we get some swag that says the pinball show on it or something like that. But right around the chest area, just a simple silver heart. Boom. And give it to the recipients. Now, that would be actually really, really cool. Just something to kind of have. And, you know, maybe over the course of a year, at the end of the year, we can figure out one single individual effort that stood out amongst everybody. And they are awarded the annual silver heart. And they get a brand new in-box pinball machine. Hey, hey, hey. Compliments for flipping out pinball. Whoa. Hey, here we go. Let's do it. Careful now. But a Gottlieb compliments of Dennis Creasel. A Gottlieb compliments of Dennis Creasel. Yeah, that would be fun. I don't know. I just thought. So these are stories that make you go, aw.
    83:07
    Exactly. An act of selflessness, like an act of kindness. Because, I mean, let's be honest, that doesn't always happen in pinball. And I'm really starting to appreciate those that are doing things that make the community positive. That's no shit. That's actually decent. Yeah. And nice to one another. Oh, God. That's awesome. I love that idea. The silver heart to Steve Beattie. Congrats, Stevie. Nicely done, Steve. Now, I've got a cool story. This isn't silver heart worthy, but it's just a cool story. Can I tell you, listeners? Ken, are you okay with that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we'll wrap it up here. So, flipping out, Nicole and I were out. We were road tripping yesterday to drop off a couple pinball machines. We were delivering to Nashville, the Nashville area, a Willy Wonka collector's edition, and we were sending off a Stranger Things limited edition. We were also picking up a Deadpool Premium used inventory. It was actually, customer had some concerns with the play field, and it wasn't really, long story short, we picked it up, we're getting them a new one. But we picked up another pinball machine that I wasn't anticipating. It just happened to fall in the back of my truck. I didn't steal it, people. Damn. But it was a limited edition game, still in the box, Ken. That's amazing. That they no longer sell anymore. And it's one of my favorite pinball machines ever made. Ladies and gentlemen, I was able to secure a new in box Ghostbusters LE. That's nuts, man. I honestly didn't think that there were many of those left in the box. It's insane. So when that opportunity came up, I thought, you know what? Yeah, I want that. I bought it more as a hobbyist with the price I paid for it. And here's the conundrum that I'm in. And listeners, if you guys could help me as well, I should sell this because flipping out pinball is a business. I should sell this.
    85:13
    Damn it, Ken. why am I having a hard time deciding? I want to unbox this thing and have my own Ghostbusters LE. Am I stupid? No, but does it make sense to... Should that be kept in a box? It should be played. It should be opened up and it should be enjoyed. Well, the business side of me, the minute... And you guys know, even Bill Webb's out there. The minute that I unbox that damn thing, it's worth probably $500 less. It doesn't even matter if I put a ball on it.
    85:43
    $500 less. Now, when was it, maybe a four-year-old pin at this point? As a distributor, I'm even mixed on how great do I feel? I don't even know if this thing's in warranty, if it's not in box. I'll have to talk to Stern. I don't know if it's still under warranty, if it's still in the box. But as a distributor. That was something I was wondering, right? Because it's never been opened. So I don't know how that works. And that game was out in like March or April probably of 2016, somewhere in there. So we're coming at four years. Is it still under warranty? Do I feel great about selling a new unboxed machine if I don't know really the condition that it's in? So I'm mixed. I don't know what to do with this thing. But part of me, the collector in me, wants to open this thing and just sit it right next to my Stranger Things LE and my Elvira LE. Am I stupid? No, you're not stupid. I mean, the game's going to have to come out of the box. Because to your point, if there is not a warranty any longer, I don't know that it makes sense for you as a distributor to offer it if there's not going to be any after-sales support from Stern per the warranty. People do it all the time. But I was going to say, that being said, for some, it might be worth the risk. I mean, and the risk isn't necessarily terribly high. I mean, back in the day, there were some playfield concerns that were addressed. Yeah, cabinet stuff. Some cabinet stuff. So it is what it is. But to have an LE Ghostbusters new in box, again, I would probably guess there are less than 10 of those in existence. I don't know if that's true or not. I've not seen a distributor offer one. I've certainly asked around if there were Ghostbusters new in box of any model for years now, and I've come up with zero. I would love to have a new in box pro. If anybody out there has it, let's do a little trade, a little swap of Ruski. I would love to have a pro. You know, if I did call in to Stern, and I called Chaz or Pablo up there, and I was like, hey, guys, just had a customer unbox finally his Ghostbusters LE. and, well, we're having some issues, they would shit a brick. They'd be like, what? That's it. Are you serious? Oh, so I don't know. Steve Bee finds guns. I end up outside of Nashville finding a brand-new Ghostbusters LE still in the box. All is well with the world, but I need your help, listeners, to see what the hell I should do with this pinball machine. Oh, man. It's exciting. You're going to have to keep us updated. And if you've got a suggestion for that, again, the email address is the pinball network at gmail.com uh and before we leave ken yeah we know that you've got we know that you've got um rick and morty bloodsuckers coming in right right you know what what options you're getting on that yet what do you think i'll probably get just about every option that's available i don't have the the paper that's in front of me right now but i the coin door a little purple coin door black yeah no i'll get the purple i i'm i'm a stickler where if you're going to get anything powder-coated, the armor has the... I always get the Coindor powder-coated as well. Okay, so you're a pro-Coindor kind of fella. Yeah, what about you? I'm imagining you're doing the same thing. You're just going all purple. I'm going to get everything I can probably. What about the inside Art Blades? I don't think I'm going with the inside Art Blades. Yeah, I don't know. I have not paid that much attention. After that or something. Well, and I'm assuming there are going to be aftermarket Art Blades that will be available because, I mean, there's so much art that's available online. Whether it's licensed or not, somebody will have it. Yeah, mirror blades could work. Mirror blades work good. I've not seen a game that didn't look like it benefited from mirror blades. It just kind of gives you a sense of expansiveness on the play field, and because it's a mirror reflection, I mean, it blends perfectly. What about the speaker acrylics and lights? You've got to go that, Cromwell. Absolutely. I love speaker lighting. I'm looking at speaker lighting on Batman 66 right now. I'm looking at the red rings around that. But what about this? What about a little shaker and a knocker combo? I'm going to have to get that, too. Now, this is where I'm wondering if it makes sense for me to just buy that and install it myself because that's not anything difficult. Or if that's something that I'll have the factory done. I guess from a convenience standpoint, it's nice to unbox it and have it there. But, I mean, I'm fully capable of installing a shaker and a knocker. I just don't know if the price difference warrants me doing the extra work. Because if it's an extra $20, just do it. It's not a big deal. It saves me trips to and from. The other one from Pinball Life? Yeah, from Pinball Life. It's like 20 minutes away from here. So it's so nice to be able to get in a car and just be able to pick up rubbers or, well, that sounded weird. Be able to pick up LEDs. Get that at the gas station and see the SA. Right, exactly. That's the closest gas station is Pinball Life. Poor Creasel shaking his head right now. Dennis Creasel will be joining us next week. We didn't mention Dennis at the beginning of the show, but it's important to realize that myself and Zach will be hosting weekly. But Dennis on alternating weeks will be coming in, alternating from his Eclectic Gamers podcast recording weeks. So we'll have a three-man show that I'm super excited to do because I've never done a show with – I've done a podcast with you a few times on Twit. I've done a podcast with Dennis when we did the April Fool's thing. Myself and Dennis hosted Twit. But to have the pinball menage a trois, as it may be, between Zach and Dennis and myself, I'm looking forward to that. So that's going to be fun. For shits and giggles, I'm throwing in the four-inch Crescent clone. He's coming into that. So now we've got three and a half? Three and a half. So, yeah. Three and an eighth. whatever it takes next week, get ready because Dennis will be here with Zach and we're all going to be bringing our full energy. This is going to be, it's going to be a fun, energized show each and every single week. And the minute it gets boring, we're going to torch it. It's like, that's it. That's it. All right. That's going to wrap it up. I'll tell you what, for Zach many, I am Ken Cromwell. Always practice safe pinball and mile are up. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.
    91:26
    And contrary to popular belief. One more time, Zach. You ready there, bud? Yeah, let's do it. Just change the whole thing, dude. Here we go. And contrary to popular belief. Would I be a dickhole if I just made you do that one more time? Well, JJP just came out with that Escape from Nublar minigame from Keith Elwin and team. Have you played that on your game? JJP didn't do that. Oh, Jurassic Park did. What the fuck am I talking about? You're sick. You're sickly. You know, it's the initials throw me off JJP, JP, whatever it takes I've done it too My bad Can I include that as a blooper at all? Yeah, we definitely need to do outtakes Are you okay with you saying f***? Or do you want me to beep it? Just bleep the f*** part In general, we gotta beep the f***, right?
    92:17
    I would say F-bombs should be bleeped Okay, alright Christian line does cost a lot of money Hey, come here, Morty. Rick, leave me alone. And I don't care what you think, Jerry.