Episode 714: "Is The Spooky Brand Damaged?"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·24m 15s·analyzed·Aug 31, 2022

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Spooky Pinball's brand damaged by nonrefundable deposits and poor leadership decisions.

Summary

Kaneda discusses Spooky Pinball's brand damage following their TNA announcement and $9,000 pricing, criticizing nonrefundable deposit practices, lack of distributor communication, and disappointment with second-generation leadership. He argues that while Spooky was once beloved for transparent operations under Charlie Emery, the current approach has created community backlash, and he extends this critique to other manufacturers (Chicago Gaming, Jersey Jack, American Pinball) who he believes have squandered a golden opportunity while Stern Pinball was on hiatus.

Key Claims

Spooky Pinball is releasing TNA at $9,000 with 250-unit production run
high confidence · Kaneda states this directly as context for the episode discussion
Spooky Pinball did not inform dealers and distributors about the direct-to-consumer TNA release strategy
high confidence · Kaneda: 'The moment the kids decided not to inform the dealers and distributors that they were going to do this.'
Ultraman and Halloween games from Spooky lost $2,000 in value immediately and have not recovered
high confidence · Kaneda: 'Every single person who went in on those games lost their deposit within a couple months. Those games lost $2,000 in value immediately. And none of them have recovered.'
Charlie Emery (founder) never used nonrefundable deposit strategy; it was introduced later when the company was on edge of survival
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'Charlie Emery never did it like that. That was not his approach.' and 'when they did that, every single penny mattered.'
Spooky Pinball is now making a few million dollars per release and no longer needs nonrefundable deposits for survival
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'They are now making a few million dollars per release. They are not on the edge of their seat. They are not on the edge of bankruptcy.'
Jersey Jack Pinball confidence is at the lowest it's ever been
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'The Jersey Jack Pinball brand is probably at the lowest it's ever been. Right? I've never seen Jersey Jack Pinball confidence lower than it is right now.'
Stern Pinball (Sam Stern) does not require nonrefundable deposits as company policy; nonrefundable deposits through distributors are distributor-level decisions
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'Sam Stern just gets it done. As a company, Sam Stern does not require it.'
Chicago Gaming Company brand damaged by broken promises and delays; community has lost confidence
medium confidence · Kaneda: 'Chicago Gaming Company used to be a darling we loved. Now they're a company that's nothing but broken promises and delays.'

Notable Quotes

“The brand that Charlie Emery built, the company he built, when Charlie built Spooky Pinball, he built it slowly. He built it transparently. He didn't want to overstep. He never wanted to overpromise. And he never wanted to underdeliver.”
Kaneda @ ~mid-episode — Core contrast between founder's ethos and current leadership approach; explains historical goodwill
“Spooky Pinball does not need to do nonrefundable deposits anymore. What Spooky Pinball needs to do is make great games.”
Kaneda @ ~mid-episode — Kaneda's central argument for why the policy is no longer justified
“The brand is significantly damaged. And I hope they see that. And I hope they realize and I hope they call a meeting and say guys like we need to rethink this.”
Kaneda @ ~late-episode — Direct assessment of brand damage and call for corrective action
“A distributor is with you in the good times and the bad. And you can't cut them out when it's the good times. When you know you have a hit.”
Kaneda @ ~mid-episode — Articulates distributor relationship principle and Spooky's violation of it
“Every single pinball brand out there except for Sam Stern has really dropped the ball. They've made mistakes.”
Kaneda @ ~late-episode — Broad indictment of entire manufacturing landscape during Stern's hiatus
“I don't see myself buying another Spooky Pinball machine until this company stops the nonsense. I'm not buying it.”
Kaneda @ ~mid-episode — Personal voting-with-wallet decision from major industry voice
“Sam Stern Pinball is just going to scorch pinball earth and they are just going to dominate over the next year and a half. Everyone else has just fumbled the ball.”
Kaneda @ ~late-episode — Prediction of Stern dominance and competitive landscape shift
“It's this new thing in pinball and nobody likes it, right? It's this new approach which we need to lock in these nonrefundable deposits on the first day we open up sales or we're going to consider this a little bit of a nervous production schedule.”

Entities

Spooky PinballcompanyCharlie Emeryperson Sam SternpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinballcompany Chicago Gaming Companycompany American Pinball

Signals

~
sentiment_shift: Spooky Pinball brand perception has rapidly shifted from beloved, transparent company to perception as greedy, cash-grab focused operation under second-generation leadership
high · Kaneda: 'The brand that Charlie Emery built...When Charlie built Spooky Pinball, he built it slowly. He built it transparently...Now, now that Charlie has stepped aside and the kids are running the company, look at what's happened...The brand is significantly damaged.'
?
community_signal: Unprecedented vitriol and anger on Pinside forum regarding Spooky Pinball's TNA announcement and business practices
high · Kaneda: 'I was on Pinside last night and I was shocked at the amount of vitriol and anger. I was shocked, right? Because Spooky Pinball was always a company. Whenever people spoke about them, they were usually kind...you can't find a Spooky Pinball thread that has had so much vitriol. This week's topic is the most popular topic in the world.'
?
business_signal: Spooky Pinball's new leadership appears focused on profit margin optimization through direct-to-consumer sales bypassing distributors
medium · Kaneda: 'I get it because they see the margins. They're going to profit the most. Even if they didn't want to allow distributors to sell this game, they should have at least given them the heads up'
?
product_concern: Spooky Pinball's recent premium releases (Ultraman, Halloween) experienced immediate $2,000+ value loss and have not recovered, damaging collector confidence
high · Kaneda: 'Every single person who went in on those games lost their deposit within a couple months. Those games lost $2,000 in value immediately. And none of them have recovered.'
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Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.073

0:00

It's not time to make a change. Just relax. Take it easy. You're still young. That's your fault. There's so much you have to know. Welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. My favorite post yesterday on Pinside, someone said, hey, I checked out that free Kaneda's Pinball Podcast and I thought it was going to be horrible, but it wasn't that bad. Yeah, you know, thank you. You don't get voted favorite pinball podcast five years in a row doing a horrible show. So let's talk about the day after this This week's announcement, right? There's been a lot of response to Spooky Pinball. They are in the limelight. They are on center stage right now as everybody waits for Stern's next reveal. The first thing I keep thinking about is does Spooky Pinball know that Stern is going to put out something this Friday? Is that why they are rushing to get these games sold on the Thursday before Friday? I don't know. I really don't know. I know a lot of people in the manufacturing circle that They kinda know what's going on with each other's companies and they keep it a secret, so we shall see. But it is pretty interesting timing when you think about it. Why the rush to sell the game this Thursday? The other thing I want to talk about on this podcast is just the simple fact that no matter how I feel about this game or you feel about this game, Ultimately, the market will decide whether or not this game is priced appropriately. The market will decide whether or not this is a good move. So there's that, right? And this Thursday at 10 a.m. Central Standard Time, we will see if this game sells out right away or in one day. The other thing I was thinking about this morning is why are we now so obsessed with the game selling out in one day as This week's topic is a day one sellout. A day one sellout is usually reserved for some amazing game we've been waiting for, some AAA theme, some holy grail revelation pinball machine. It's so strange that now we are so used to this like it either sells out in a few hours or it's an absolute marketing disaster. That's not the case. We're going to be making these TNAs now for the next six months, right? That's what they said over a six month period. And so why do they have to sell this thing out in just one day? And it's this new thing in pinball and nobody likes it, right? It's this new approach which we need to lock in these nonrefundable deposits on the first day we open up sales or we are going to consider this a little bit of a nervous production schedule. And I want to move away from this. And I want to encourage all of us to move away from this behavior. This manufactured FOMO that if I don't get the game on release date, I'm going to be paying more money for this title down the road. If we look at the history of pinball launches over the last few years, that hasn't been the case whatsoever. Isn't it crazy when you think about when games like Deadpool LE came out and they sat for a while? Games like Stranger Things LE came out and they sat for a while? I'm John Papadiuk, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, transliteelectronic panel in backbox that is backlit during playelectronic Game of Thrones unint You look at this hobby. Every single game is priced subjectively, right? Every single game. There is the bomb. There's the material cost that goes into the game. And then they have to figure out how much above that do I price this game where I think there will still be demand. And that is somewhat of a subjective journey. They are making 250 of these games. It seems like nothing, right? When you think about There is a global world out there where there are pinball collectors all over the world and you are making just 250. In America alone, that means there can only be five per state if these games are bought by pinheads, right? Five per state. It seems like nothing. But then you factor in that it is a small niche community. You also factor in that it's $9,000. And I was thinking about this as I was riding my bike to do I was thinking about here's the reality of this entire hobby and this is why it gets kind of scary as I think if you were to be honest with yourselves and the people who buy these machines almost everybody who collects pinball machines almost anyone is on pin side every single day consistently the people who have multiple machines most of you have six maybe seven figures some of you have eight figures of disposable income I'm John Papadiuk, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, and I'll see you next week.

6:02

And in a world like that when you only need a handful of people who have that kind of purchasing power and let me remind everybody in the united states alone there are twenty one almost twenty two million millionaires in america twenty two million and if you need to sell just two hundred and fifty of a pinball machine i think you're gonna probably find some buyers right Will this game sell out day one? I don't know. Nothing surprises me anymore in the world of pinball. I can tell you how I feel about this game again a little bit. I'll summarize. I don't see $9,000 in value. I don't like Spooky's nonrefundable deposits anymore. And I don't like the way his children are running the company right now. This is second generation spooky pinball right now. He's handed the company off to his kids. And that's fine. Like that's the American dream. He's built something. He created something of enough value where the money came in and they are now making a decent amount of money, especially for a company in Benton, Wisconsin. But I don't like the approach the kids are taking and I'll tell you why. If you think about it, and I was on pin side last night and I was shocked by the amount of vitriol and anger. I was shocked, right? Because Spooky Pinball was always a company. Whenever people spoke about them, they were usually pretty kind. And even if you didn't like something Spooky did and trust me, a lot of us out there bit our tongue as this company released games that didn't shoot very well. They were brick fest like we were with them on the journey, but we were always kind to them because we knew they were a small family run company that was just trying to make it. There was a lot of empathy and there was a lot of caring that I think this community gave to spooky pinball and we were there. We remember why Spooky Pinball introduced nonrefundable deposits because when they did that, every single penny mattered. And if people bailed on their orders at the very end, it could really hurt this company's ability to survive. But that was years ago. That is no longer the case. They are now making a few million dollars per release. They are not on the edge of their seat. They are not on the edge of bankruptcy. But here's what they're doing now. They are continuing that policy. And what that policy now is doing, it's basically screwing over the pinball buyer. Because I think this nonrefundable policy of theirs, it's putting no onus on them to make great games. And I'm still upset. And I think what you're seeing on pin side right now is a lot of that pent up anger is coming out. I think we are all still upset that everybody who bought Ultraman and Halloween I was forced to buy the game through the fan club membership so we gave them money for the right to buy the game and then they made us buy the game without showing us the game and then the games got shown after our money was non-refundable. Before they built a single game, they did not show us anything. They locked our money in and then they showed us the game and the games were underwhelming And every single person who went in on those games lost their deposit within a couple months. Those games lost $2,000 in value immediately. And none of them have recovered. None of them are worth what we got locked into paying for them. And that is not fair to us. And that was a decision by them. That was a marketing decision by the new people who are running Spooky Pinball. Charlie Emery never did it like that. That was not his approach. And I think a lot of us have been biting our tongue. And I think the part of it is this. It is not an easy black and white story. Yes, we didn't have to go in on it. But I think there is this blanket blaming of the community that those are just scalpers and flippers who are upset. No, I want to set the record straight. These aren't just scalpers and flippers that are upset. Everybody's upset. Nobody wanted to buy a game before seeing it. They made us do it that way. And then they did not have a game complete. They were not ready to sell those games to the community. Crenshaw sustaining at Sporsun75 each because the games tanked and home you and it doesn't matter now what any of the families who own one are saying that games are never going back up in value ok or so why is it if someone bought a game on day one day one if someone bought a game from Spooky Pinball and that the third vorne cooler rescue concern of the game of if not the most of the franchisees and playors used life to get the någo Grandma is Park Ann what did you do to tell me ninety audience And then when they finally see it, they're like, I'm not satisfied with what you made. Can I have my money back? I'm order number 400 or 500. You're not even going to order parts for my game for the next six months. Why can't I at least get my money back or transfer it to another spooky game? Why can't I at least get credit with your company? Nope, they won't do that for you. And so they've made a lot of money on these last two games. And so they're continuing this practice. And I don't like it. I don't like that spooky pinball is doing it. I don't like that Jersey Jack is doing it. You know who doesn't do it? Stern Pinball. And then just read the responses on Pinside over the last 24 hours. And you know what I'm noticing is this. The brand that Charlie Emery built, the company he built, when Charlie built Spooky, he built it slowly. He built it transparently. He didn't want to overstep. He never wanted to overpromise. And he never wanted to underdeliver. And Charlie is the reason why This company built so much goodwill with the community. Charlie is the reason so many people supported Spooky Pinball. Now, now that Charlie has stepped aside and the kids are running the company, look at what's happened. They've increased production significantly. They locked everybody in and they disappointing people There no way around this When you read the thread read how people are talking about Spooky Now The brand is significantly damaged And I hope they see that And I hope they realize and I hope they call a meeting and say hey guys like we need to rethink this Like we can just increase the volume This isn working Like we might be making more money but we might be setting ourselves up for long term failure And I think they need to really I'm going to sit down and take a deep look at what kind of company do they want to be because think about it right now. Right now Spooky Pinball, they've scaled up to the point where they want to make like 1750 games. So if TNA is coming out next at $9000, then how much is their next pinball machine going to be if it's fully loaded? Is it going to be more than $9000? Are they going to make 1750 Scooby Doos? Are they going to lock people into Scooby Doo before showing them the game? At some point, and it might be on TNA, it might not. At some point, the consumers in the community, the money is going to stop flowing towards spooky pinball because people are going to get tired of it. They are going to get tired of it. Spooky pinball does not need to do nonrefundable deposits anymore. What spooky pinball needs to do is make great games. Now here is the thing. They are going to do what they want to do. They are going to keep these nonrefundable deposits. They are going to try to create fake FOMO to get I'm John Papadiuk, Black Water, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, Twippies Awards, and I'll see you next week. You've been waiting for a week to buy the game. If you're not sure what to play, why don't you buy now? I'm not saying you're going to buy the game now unless you know you want one. If you know you want a new game, you may buy it at $9,000 and you can start saving money. Trust me, it's going to happen. You're going to play the game and ultimately, you have all the power. The community still has all the power. You can decide, I'm not going to do this, I'm not going to run towards FOMO. I'm not going to lock my money in. And that's what I'm going to do. I don't see myself buying another spooky pinball machine until this company stops the shenanigans. I'm not buying it. I don't care. I'm a 45-year-old man. I also haven't seen an episode of Scooby Doo in like 35 years. I've grown up. And that's cool if you guys want it. But look, I'm just moving past this. I'm done with this. I'm done with these companies and all of their shenanigans. Right now, I am at the position where the only pinball company I really want to support I think they're the only pinball company that doesn't play these silly games with people. I know they're making us wait for toppers. I know that. I know they're making you wait for the rush lighting system, but I don't want to play these games anymore. I want a company that says, here's the game. If you want it, you can have it. And if I give a deposit, I can get my money back or I can transfer it to another game. It's not this like it's all or nothing thing. And I know that Stern sometimes does nonrefundable deposits, but that's through the distributor. It's not through Stern. As a company, Stern does not require it. Stern just gets it done. So I'm just done. Like I think the whole vibe and this is the crazy part, right? When you think about these pinball companies, look at each manufacturing company as a brand. Look at how sad the CGC brand is over the last like year and a half, right? Chicago Gaming Company used to be a darling we loved. Now they're a company that's nothing but broken promises and delays and delays and delays. Nobody has any confidence in Chicago Gaming Company and everyone's just over them. Look at Haggis. I don't even have to go down that road. Look at Haggis. They absolutely didn't deliver what they said they were going to deliver and now they took everybody else on a Mickey Mouse ride with that company. They're still hiding out. Nobody knows how many of those fathoms have shipped. Look at Spooky Pinball. They used to be the darling. Chuck used to be the company that everybody rooted for and I still get back to this very simple point. The moment the kids decided not to inform the dealers and distributors that they were going to do this Monday night. You think Charlie Emery would have kept his distributors in the dark? No! These kids need to learn business acumen. They didn't know what they were doing. I get it because they see the margins. They're going to profit the most. Even if they didn't want to allow distributors to sell this game, they should have at least given them the heads up and shown them the respect they deserve because it's been those dealers and distributors that have helped push their products when they were turds. And I mean this. And it's almost like they don't understand this. Like a distributor is with you in the good times and the bad. And you can't cut them out when it's the good times. When you know you got a hit game people want, you got to keep them in the loop and they didn't do it. And I think it shows where this company is headed. And I think they're in for some trouble and I can see it already. Like they're not used to this. Like I don't know how thick the skin is over there at Spooky Pinball, but they're not used to this. Like you can't find a Spooky Pinball thread that has had so much vitriol This week's topic is the most popular topic in the world. The most popular topic in the world is the one that Charlie Emory has been talking about and that is the one that Charlie Emory has been talking about for the last two days. And this is what Charlie never wanted. He never wanted to do stuff that disappointed people or upset people or felt like it was a cash grab or felt like he was being greedy. Charlie Emory always did the opposite. Thank you for watching I out of town I done Like I done And everybody can see right through it Like everybody can see right through it Dollars are dollars You know as I was saying this Spooky brand has been damaged This CGC brand has been damaged. The JJP brand is probably at the lowest it's ever been. Right? I've never seen Jersey Jack Pinball confidence lower than it is right now. I've never seen a lack of interest in Jersey Jack Pinball the way I do right now. If you go to Pinside, someone unboxed a Toy Story CE and guess what? There is no activity. Nobody cares. Nobody's chiming in. Nobody's super excited to get theirs. This is sad to me, right? It's really sad to me. If you asked me like three years ago and you say, Chris, look, Jersey Jack Pinball is going I'm going to release a $15,000 Toy Story game and it's going to come out in 2022 and you said Chris what do you think is going to happen and I would be like oh my god for $15,000 it must be packed with toys it's going to be their most epic game of all time right I would have all of these high hopes because I would say to myself how can you charge $15,000 for a machine if it's not your best machine ever and so Jersey Jack comes out with its most expensive 你网可以出卷最货房机的那一种 machine ever and it is also their mostnderwhelming machine ever so thinkficient Game of Thronesunintelligible so think about that for a minute how can you release your most expensive machine how can you release your most expensive machine ever that is also your most underwhelming machine ever and that is the vibe is all of most underwhelming machine ever and that is the vibe is all of these brands right all of these brands right now are in a these brands right now are in a really precarious place and they got they really precarious place and they got there at the worst possible time because there's a there at the worst possible time because there's a feeding frenzy in pinball it's like feeding frenzy in pinball it's like pinball people want to spend money But they also want the value. They want to get epic masterpiece games. It's so weird to me. It's like they all got it wrong. All of these companies got it wrong. I didn't even talk about American Pinball or Multimorphic, but none of these brands right in this period in which consumer demand is higher than it's ever been. Every single pinball brand out there except for Stern has really dropped the ball. They've made mistakes. They didn't read the So many people turned to me for 봐요 kaik for being here at Pandemie because some of you are wondering what quarters in award benevolience shows it would be if I could Vince for being here today by the way. I guess I could be right. Anyways thanks everybody. They're the dominator. They're the kings of this pinball world and they're about to come back out into the pinball marketplace and everyone else has basically just shot themselves in the foot. They did absolutely nothing. And I'm just going to go out there and make a wild prediction. I don't think American Pinball's tank game is going to light the world on fire. It's not. It's absolutely not. And Stern Pinball is just going to scorch pinball earth and they are just going to dominate over the next year and a half. Everyone else has just fumbled the ball. This was the most golden opportunity for all of these other pinball companies to step up to the plate. It's like Stern was begging them. We're going to take a huge hiatus. Everybody else show us what you got. We're going to give you a great window to dominate pinball sales to come out with stuff that's going to actually elevate your brands. And look at what I just said. All of these companies have dropped the ball. Who's really exceeded your Vacations, think about that! Just send me an email at kanadapinball at gmail dot com. Name me one pinball company that is exceeded your expectations of them since Stern Pinball went on their new-in-box hiatus. Just one company who's done one thing, or made one game that has really blown you away. And that ladies and gentleman, is why we are not going to just throw $9,000 out the window every time a new game comes out. That is why I'm going to be on the line. You know why? Because it's September tomorrow and they haven't even finished building the 500 Legends of Valhalla. They announced like 10 months ago. So what is going on over there? It's still a mess. What is going on over at CGC? Still a mess. What's going on over at JJP? No, nobody really wants Toy Story. They can't make a thousand of these CEs. What's going on over at Multimorphic? Who knows? Like who knows what Jerry's doing? He's not building games. Like nobody's unboxing Weird Al's like six months later after it's been revealed. What's the hold up everybody? Is this COVID still? Is this still a supply shortage issue? Then why reveal your game? Why lock money in if you can't get the parts? All of these companies have played it wrong. All of these companies have injured their brands. And I think everybody's noticing it. There's only one other brand in pinball that has not injured itself besides Stern And that is the world's favorite pinball podcast, Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. We'll be back, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for the support. And we're back behind the paywall. They don't get to hear this. You guys do. Love you guys. Two shows in two days. Who else does that for you? Kaneda out. I know that I have to go away. I know I have to go.