Hey, it's been a little bit everybody. How you doing? Don's Pinball Podcast Worldwide Network is unfolding again up onto your face, into your space, and into the place that we call your lap. I'm going to drop in some pinball news, views, and things, and an awesome interview with Rob Burke coming up now. Boom, exploding like the Borg through my Star Trek The Next Generation sitting right next to me here. It's for sale. It's available. We'll talk all about that. How are you guys doing this week in this nerd's pinball land, I guess I'll say? A lot of things have been going on. A lot of things personally going on. taking me away from my podcasting, uh, normal cadence that we've all grown used to, but it's all really fun stuff building to some momentous, uh, announcements, which I'll tease a little bit in the patron after party for this show. Uh, but I want to get in on this some things. Um, star Trek, star Trek, star Wars, uh, force of the awakens force of the empire fall of the budgets, uh, is out in our cage. Go play it now. Uh, we're getting some, uh, early hot takes back from people that are playing it. Uh, of course, some of those factory issues that, you know, just when you live with just a couple of prototype games that you've been beaten on for 18 months or so, you know, there's things that don't show up until you're 100 or so units through and things are going on location. So I want to talk about some of that. Expo is around the corner. I was reminded by my good friend Ryan Barry that we're about two weeks or so away. I can't believe it. We're at the very edge of September here. October is right around the corner. Somebody call Green Day because September is about to end. And, shoot, we're going to be at Expo before we know it. Time has been flying crazily, and the hectic lifestyle, I'm sure, is contributing to that. And then I'll drop the interview that I had with Rob Burke, organizer and inventor extraordinaire and pinball Guinness record holder for his interview. We had a short chat just about everything going on specifically for this Expo, including highlights and events that you don't want to miss, including the homebrew topper contest that yours truly here is happy to shine a spotlight on as I'm hosting it. And I've got some prizes. I got the topper from the electric playground, which will be going out as one of the co-top prizes for the winners. Stern Pinball also donated a topper. And so if you have a homebrew topper project, bring that on in Thursday. Heck, bring it Friday. The public's going to vote. We're going to tally the votes on Saturday afternoon. And then just come by and just pick up your free topper just for being a clever lad or lattice and bringing in that topper. So it's going to be super fun. But I want to talk about Star Wars. Now, I was at this little media shindig thing that they threw at Stern. Thanks for inviting me, everybody. Seth Davis on down. You guys are great. I always have a good time there. And I always make sure to eat as much food as possible and get some face time with Kyle there as he walks us around the factory. I never get tired of touring the chocolate factory. So, you know, I played Star Wars on location there. I talked about it and my impressions and everything. Now they're hitting the floor. And so Kickback Bar is a location in the regional Madison area, Middleton, but essentially Madison, Wisconsin. They have two LEs side-by-side on the show floor for everybody to play. This is a newer location that I've chosen to highlight. Also, I want to get in there and talk about playing these games on location now, outside of the confines of the Stern Empire, and actually playing for the first time a production machine, not the prototypes from the factory that have been live streamed and beat on and, you know, parts removed, placed back on and everything. Like, how is it shooting straight out the factory, straight out the box? So let's get into that. So I had a little bit of time before I had to go to work, so Monica and I went into town. She's never played Star Wars. We have one on order. It'll be a premium. It's already going to get custom made over. I'll talk about that in a second. But we wanted to go in and just, you know, get to play on it for a little bit and then do some Costco shopping. And, of course, Kickback Bar is Costco adjacent, and there's also some pretty cool restaurants around that area. Madison's a pretty cool city, you guys. I can't complain about it. It's got good neighborhood vibes, and it doesn't feel overly, you know, urban and congested like Chicago can sometimes feel, or just kind of dusty like Rockford is. So, anyway, we go in there, go into the place. This is a sprawling new location. Like, the building is huge. The pinball itself occupies about 20% of the building. The rest is vacant, but there's some space cordoned off for other business enterprises to come in here. It's very well lit, so you can contrast this with like an IO arcade, which is also within the Madison area, which feels more like kind of like a hip, darker pinball bar tournament location, hangout, Logan's Arcade kind of vibey kind of place. This feels like a brand new cavernous concrete building With about 40 pinball machines in there Although the ceilings are 40 feet high And there is a bar, but I haven't made my way over there yet It feels much more airy I'm sure it's got a better vibe at night or maybe during tournament time But it's a cool place And they've got essentially every Stern Spike 2 machine Now Spike 3 And most of them are LEs They also have a great collection of 90s and 80s games on down So it's a super fun place to go. It's on Coindrop. It's a buck to play. They've got some Mario Kart linked up and some skee-ball and stuff. But that's about it, that and the bar. So we go into this place. And aside from a bizarre encounter with a guy playing the game in front of us, who I'm just going to call Kevin, everything went super cool there. So we went and played both machines. You know, we got about five games or so total, and then we went off to Costco. I had a game where I think I played for about, you know, 10 or 15 minutes, It's got up to a quarter of a billion points, hit a couple of the multi-balls in one game, had a pretty good game on it. And essentially, it's the same game that I remember, the same Spike 3 screen. Of course, the audio in this cavernous area is hard to appreciate. It was so much better when we were in that small, confined room. And I think the Spike 3 cabinets are really going to sing at home. But, you know, the audio was good enough that you could hear it. And the clarity of the screen helped, even though we were in an environment with large windows and a lot of ambient natural light coming in. So, you know, super fun. So how does the game play? Essentially, it's the same. A couple of issues because you know we've got to talk about those. Let's talk about the group ball, the Death Star, right? So this mechanism functions essentially as two pieces. It's a little bit larger than a tennis ball, a little bit smaller than a softball, and it has a door that opens, and it looks like a mouth, but they're calling it the shield, right? So you drop the shield of the Death Star by making a fifth of it just kind of drop away, and then the ramp will go right up in there. I think it's on a stepper motor and a screw auger, so it just kind of rolls itself on down. Now, there's no problems when it comes to getting the ball in there over the bottom of the shield or the bottom lip of the mouth. The problem I ran into is that balls that were shot, you know, exceedingly fast, like really accurate shots right up that ramp from the right flipper, they were getting a little bit of air and they were catching the top entrance to the Death Star and rejecting which was frustrating. I ran into this on location at Stern and of course those were the prototype games, those weren't the production games so I was giving them some grace. But now that I saw it happen on location I'm a little bit concerned with that being that this is the essentially sole mechanism of the game that's ball interactive. I hate to see a reject. Now I will give kudos to the layout designers because it is backhandable from the left flipper. You can cradle up there, and it's not too bad of a shot to get up there. If you catch the edge of the post or the edge of the ball guide on the side, the ball will just kind of rattle right up the ramp and go into an open Death Star. Easy peasy. I love when I can get a shot that I know is relatively guaranteed, especially when time is of the essence or there's a hurry up or you're really trying to complete that last mode to get to a wizard mode. I like to have something that at least I know I can get dialed from a cradle. So I really 100% appreciate that. When it comes to hitting the shot on the fly from the right flipper, that's where the accuracy is a little bit more tight. This is one of the main multi-balls of the game, so I can appreciate that. Not every shot is tight. This is probably the tightest one that's there. But on occasion, when I would catch it right at the right spot and get up there and just thread the needle through the ball guides, a really good shot that I felt good about, like, I nailed this one, man. I nailed this. I should hit this no problem. that's when it was frustrating to see the ball just kind of reach up and kiss the top of that entrance rattle and then roll back down and reject and it's like, dang it, that wasn't like a bad backhand shot that wasn't like an off-center schnick shot where it caught the edge of something and it went up there that was a true blue dead eye burying it in the gullet of the Death Star and it should have delivered an explosive impact just like Lando was piloting the Falcon in episode 67456 into the Death Star itself. So that was a little thing. So I think this may be because, of course, you know, the ball, if it's carrying a lot of speed going up there from a truly great accurate shot, it's going to catch a little bit of air, and I think that's what's happening. Now, I don't know, you know, it's not the shield, not the jaw that's opening up that's causing a problem, so that's okay. So this seems to be a two-part mechanism. I'll have to get it in my own home to kind of dissect, do a little alien autopsy on this mechanism to see if there's any way to really truly dial it in because maybe that's all it needs. I'm sure if you raised the Death Star body itself, maybe put a couple of spacers underneath it or something, it probably wouldn't happen as much because there'd be more ceiling clearance there, although that might make it not line up when the jaw is closed. So that'll probably look a little funky. The other way around this would be with some kind of plastic over that ramp to act as an awning, for lack of better terms. Just a little carport, right? So something to keep the ball down. We saw the same similar issue with shots not registering on another recent John Boer game, Rush. That inner loop off the upper flipper, the ball would sometimes careen in there with so much speed that it would hug that ball guide and gain a little bit of air just because of the speed and force that are in there. So a really great shot was missing that rollover switch that was right there. And so a plucky aftermarket mod maker came up with a simple plastic to install over that shot to keep the ball down where it should be. And this is a classic solution that we've seen in pinball since ages prehistory, right, just to keep balls on the ground so they can register over switches. So maybe a small clear plastic on that ramp is what would mitigate this. Otherwise, I'm going to have to come up with some kind of awning over the Death Star, which I would like to avoid because the last thing I want to see is when I sit down to play the game is look over the Death Star and there's its sun-setted retractable awning right there just to keep balls from rejecting. So we'll see what happens. I did play both of the LEs. They were both side-by-side, and I ran into this issue on each one of them. So, again, maybe there's some adjustments that can be made. Maybe just you can canter the whole mechanism. them, rotate it back five degrees, and then it won't be an issue. But if balls that are truly being shot, like dead center, dead on, like bullseyeing a womp rat in Beggar's Canyon, I hate for that to be rewarded by rejects, right? That would be no fun. Fortunately, only one other issue I came up with the game, and that was strange. I wouldn't expect it on this game, but it was some shooter lane rattle issues. What the heck, man? I have John Borg games over here at my house. They play phenomenal. and I want this one to launch the same way, and I don't know why it shouldn't, right? Take Munsters, for example, right? It's got gates up at the top, so if you plunge, similar to Metallica even, if you plunge up, it'll hit the gate and then go over the inlanes, and you kind of pick or try to nudge it into whatever skill shot is lit up for that inlane. Or you can do the secret skill shot where you hold the left flipper, and then you get that full-strength plunge all the way around, ripping to the flipper. I love those. Pulp Fiction does it. I believe Deadpool does it. Bond does it anytime you know it's fun to go up and try to be accurate with the inlanes and like play the skill and everything but when you get a dirty drain on ball one and you want nothing more than to just jump in with ball two and get it going I love the option of holding that flipper button and like let's get back in here and let me redeem myself right now Star Wars doesn't have any gates doesn't have any retention pins or posts no no controllable gates no one way business this should a full plunge should scream around that orbit right through the spinner, start building up your Jedi multiball or Jedi ball save powers, and then get right into the game, right? Fire them right up Jabba's gullet, drain that toilet. But what I was finding is a full-strength plunge was just creeping around the top of the orbit, and sometimes it was catching the edge of the ball guy. Of course, the ball goes off a little bit of a jump there as it goes over the exit to the right orbit. Occasionally, it would get up there and hit a little rattle or something. And I don't know if it's just a case of the ball guy just needs a little bit of a wall there to keep it in play. Maybe it's going a little bit out of bounds, a little bit of a foul ball. Now, this can be as simple as the shooter rod just needs to be adjusted a little bit because it may not be hitting the ball, you know, dead center where it should. Maybe it's hitting a little bit high, and you just need to loosen up the bolts there, bring it down a half a millimeter, tighten it back up, and all is good. So I'm holding out judgment on this. But I noticed that on one of the LEs, when I even tried just auto-launching with the button, it would run into this problem where it's like the forks weren't hitting even or something. These are all issues we've seen before with other games, and sometimes you just have to get in there and finagle them. They are brand new out of the box, so I just don't have my own personal one yet to test all this on. Aside from those two issues, no shooting problems at all. There's still the issue of there's not a whole lot in the game, But other than that, it is fun to play. The code was relatively compelling. I played Lando mode. That was fun. Hit the blue shots, you know, and then the blue shots would, like, kind of cancel out, and you would try to go through and get them all. This is going to be a really fun game to play and kind of get a sense on what these modes are. This game plays very different to Star Wars 2017 where there was multipliers, and you had to continue to raise your multiplier, or they would reset, and you could move it around to certain shots. and there was this whole kind of meta game aspect to it that you had to learn. This one is very much just walk up and play, hit the shots, backhand the Death Star, and, you know, drop the TIE fighter's legs, let them kneel to you, and then just go on and keep playing. So super fun. Haven't explored the Minoc multiball yet, but I have a game coming, so we didn sit there and put 50 plays on it because we know we have one coming So those were the issues that I said I will give a little slap on the back to Mr Ray Day Raymond Davidson coder extraordinaire for this game As I was playing it at the factory, I noticed that I would see the AT-AT, the AT-AT, collapse, but it didn't seem to be like a real moment. It just kind of happened while I was playing. Now when I was able to watch Monica playing, I saw the AT-AT doing his little disco dance up and down kind of periodically. So there's a lot of motion to him. But in that particular multiball, Battle of Hoth, I believe it is, once you hit enough shots and that super jackpot is lit and you go right back into that lane with the VUK vertical up kicker behind there, the ball did hold there while it played out a scene and he did that slow dive. And that's what I was looking for. So it may well have been there the whole time and I just didn't experience and or notice. While I was at the factory, whatever, it's there now. I love that. That's what I wanted. I wanted some set of circumstances to happen to where the ball would then stop for a second, and I could watch something cool happen on the game, and then play would continue. So thanks for that. I was able to see that multiball, the Groot Death Star multiball. The hyperspace one, of course, is the easiest one. Just keep firing it right up that center lane. It's a fun game. Now, when I first saw it and played it at Stern, that was the first time I'd ever seen that game. It was just revealed to me in a PowerPoint trailer, and then I got to walk to the factory, play the game, and then that was it. So it's so much happening all at once. And then I leave, and I'm thinking back, like, was that just an enhanced version of the home machine, or was there something else to it? So going back and playing it again and getting my hands on it and just having, you know, just some time, it does feel like a fully built Stern game, at least. It doesn't feel like a home edition. It does feel full scale. I do like where Spike 3 is going. This was the title that launched that technology. There's still more to come with it, I guess, including expression lights and stuff, upgrades. So I'm here for it. So, yeah, game was fun. Shot well. We had a good time. I hope Kevin enjoyed himself. But, yeah, just some strange behavior, man. It was just kind of bonkers and weird. All right, so that's Star Wars. It's out. LEs have left the station. We're heading into October tomorrow. Hopefully we'll see those premiums and pros. Will I get it by the time Expo comes? How fun would that be? Jeff, jeffandmadpinball.com, I am channeling you, sir. I'm using my telesurveillance, my telenovela powers to mind meld with you now. Have you heard anything from Stern about a premium I could run in to Elk Grove Village and go pick up in a shiny brown cardboard box? That would be super dope to do this weekend. I want to unbox this game. I want to start playing it. I want to do the dance, the dance of my people, the dance of my Ewoks. I want to get my Star Wars and start tricking it out. Segway into the armor. We saw the LE armor. The LE armor, again, I don't want to rag on anybody. I certainly like the blue powder coat. The low effort of just cutting out a sticker for an AT-AT, I get that it was probably in the style guide. It was low risk. You know, we do this. We're going to get approval. We can move on to other projects. Fine. It is an embellishment. It's not just flat black. Fine. But I like a little bit of a sizzle, man. I like to sizzle up my armor. Not only do I powder coat it, I've gotten into custom armor. And I've partnered with my friends over at Cab Custom from the beautiful city of Barcelona, where the metal is cut and designed on site and then shipped on over here. I got something special. So the folks over there had sent me their preliminary designs. And they do hinges as well. And tricking out hinges is now, like, the thing that I'm super into. So they were able to put some cool Star Wars logos on those hinges. Those are available for purchase. They'll send them to you bare metal so you can go take them to your powder coater. Or you can get them in the black wrinkle powder coat if you just want to plug and play. And custom powder coating is not really a big deal to you. They added some cool effect to the game. And you can put some foiled craft paper behind there so it kind of shines through with the logo. And they do custom work. They are Cab Custom after all. You can find them, Cab Custom, on Facebook. They've got a page there. Just instant message them. Tell them what you're looking for. Ask them what they got, and they'll show you. So they came up with, of course, an actual stenciled AT-AT, like, laser cut into the armor. Not just a cutout for the sticker, but, like, the full thing there. And I was like, that's definitely what I was kind of expecting and hoping Stern would have brought. But I'm glad you guys have done it through the aftermarket method. And for under $200, that's amazing. for a set of custom armor. But I had another idea, and my idea was for Big Daddy, the Death Star. I wanted the Death Star on the side armor. I wanted the Death Star on the side armor firing a laser up the side of the cabinet. That's what I wanted. And I want to put some green reflective back behind the laser, some silver reflective back behind the Death Star itself, and just make it sing. So you walk up and you're like, that's a damn Death Star obliterating Alderaan. That's what I want. I want that. And so he got back to me within like 12 hours. This guy had the thing mocked up, ready for production. So I went ahead and put my order in. I think for just over $300, I got a set of hinges and a set of armor delivered to the U.S., which you can have too. All you got to do is reach out to them. Just instant message them on Facebook, Cab Custom, C-A-B-C-U-S-T-O-M. Tell them Don sent you. Maybe they'll cut you a little discount or something. But their stuff is awesome. I've been using it exclusively for my builds. You can go check them up at the 1UP Lounge in Bellingham, Washington. Dudes out there are digging it. I'm having fun. I went bananas on Kong. Now I'm going Death Star on Star Wars. I think this is what this game needed. It's what I was expecting. And thankfully, due to the friends that I have and our shared madness for pinball, we're able to make cool stuff happen, man. I love making cool stuff happen. So I'm getting my Cab Custom Armor. It's already ordered. It's on its way. I haven't landed on some powder coat colors just yet, but I'm thinking some sort of like a magenta red with a black space glitter top coat. So it's kind of like Vader's flames and rage and Death Star and lasers and just all of that business. I think that might work rather than just doing a jet black. I'm excited, man. It's two weeks to Expo, and they're going to be running out some Star Wars from the factory. Maybe mine will be in there. Jeff, get at me. I'm going to text you, buddy. I'm going to text you. So Expo's coming up in two weeks. I'll be there with the topper contest. It's free to enter. Bring your homebrew topper by. I've got a ton of prizes. I'm talking about a cabinet leg protector bag from the Missing Pin Company. He'll be there with a booth as well. He's got a brand-new product that will wrap your backbox and allow you to bring it down for when you ship your game. You don't have to worry about doing the whole cling wrap thing or ratchet straps that are going to damage your cabinet. I love the solution that he came up with. We brought it over. We tried it out on my Ultraman butter cabinet. It was phenomenal. He'll be there with demos. You can go check it out and see if it's something that interests you. But if you bring a Homebrew topper in, you could win a leg carrier bag that will protect the powder coat finish on your legs when you move games. It makes it super easy. Don't use a rolled-up shop towel, and then it falls on the floor and gets scratched. I like having purpose-built tools for our specific niche hobby. And Homeboy is making them like here in the U.S. Like his wife is building them, like in the house. It's crazy. So go and support these guys. Give him a what up. Plus, he's got an epic beard, man. Go take a picture with this guy. Really interesting bloke. Wes, what's up, buddy? What's up? So he'll be there right next to CGC and Stern. So, you know, you'll probably wander by him anyway. Tell him what up. I'll be there too by the homebrew area with my toppers. Come check him out. Come vote because even if you vote, you're entered for a chance to win a free play field that I will be donating. So you're welcome. Come check it out. Win something cool. Expo's going to be awesome for the entirety of the time. So much to get to here, so much to get to. Sunsetter Retractable Awning. Nap Arcade has some Bally products that are getting auctioned off. I was going to mention those. I don't know if we have time for a Multimorphic Moment. I mean, this episode, the Multimorphic Moment I was going to talk about was one little upgrade I'd like to see come from the P3 company, from the House of 27 Games built in, And that is a true shooter lane for their games. Now, Multimorphic has 16 balls that are hidden in the back third of the cabinet that are all pre-staged back there. So everything from Drain to Cannon Lagoon can be instantly fed with 1 to 16 balls at once, depending on whatever the designer has in mind. Future-proofed, I guess is what you would say. But that tends to be where you hit the launch button and the bottle just kind of pops up from the back of the play field like a gumball machine and play just kind of starts, but it's not exciting. Man, when I pull back on Munsters and I'm holding that left flipper button and the ball's screaming around and I'm eyeing the Maryland ramp and I want to just put it right up the throat of that 180 ramp, that's what I want to do to start a pinball machine, a pinball game. I don't like to just be, like, self-fed. You know, think back to Jurassic Park. T-Rex doesn't want to be fed. T-Rex wants to hunt. And that's what I want to do from space hunt to duck hunt. I want to be able to plunge a full ball and get into it. And so P3 really wasn't designed with that in mind With their future proofing of their 16 stage balls But then it dawned on me today Stage a ball You can have it when you boot the game up One of those 16 balls can leave its ethereal trough Travel down a subway And be pre-staged down there and ready So for whatever game you're starting You can go ahead and hit start And boom that ball will just launch in Now you may say Don it doesn't matter How the ball gets into play As long as the play is compelling and interesting And I say hogwash I want to launch that thing from the right lower area of the cabinet, and I think there's a way to do it. And I think that could be done with a subway or just some way to stage a ball down there. Would be super cool. P3, you were the masters of ball staging. We saw it with Portal Man. So on this multi-morphic moment, I want to bring to attention my intention to see some distension of shooter lanes in the P3 dimension. All right. I would like to welcome to the show a Guinness World Record holder for the most pinball machines ever, and a personal goal of mine, man, if I could top that, over 1,000 games. Guy brings his selections to Expo. He's been throwing Expo for 40-something years by now. Here's a 30-minute conversation that we had about what he's hype about for this year and me learning a little bit something about the pinball industry. Let's get into it. Well, Mr. Rob Burke, thanks for coming by. Everybody's very excited for the upcoming pinball Expo here. So thanks for coming on so we can talk about it. Well, Don, I'm glad to be here, part of it You're a hard guy to reach, but once you reach it, you're the greatest down there Right, right, right, so what's this, year 41, huh? Yeah, hard to believe, man, this all started in 1985 The whole reason for X-Ball, of course, was to honor my heroes Who were the pinball designers and artists Little did I know after doing the show, in my mind, I was done And then people started calling me, hey, when's the next show? I said, there is no next show Oh, you got to do that. This is too much fun. And here we are, man, number 41. So it started as just a one-off then, just something fun to do for pinball? Well, just to honor my heroes. I enjoyed the game of pinball so much, and I wanted to somehow recognize them. And at Pinball Expo, at the banquet, I had four guys come up front, Harvey Heiss, Steve Kordek, Norm Clark, and Wayne Neyens. and I said, ladies and gentlemen, we had about 100 people, maybe over 100 people in the banquet, in the audience. And I said, these four guys are responsible for the design of over 600 turnball machines. Wow. Well, everyone stood up and applauded and to me, probably the greatest satisfaction was just seeing tears in some of their eyes because they had never been recognized. You know, it was always the big shots, the corporate offices that got all the recognition. and never the guys that actually designed the games. And that was my whole mission to recognize them, and I did so. So I was very pleased with the results. Yeah, because the whole idea of people that like pinball actually knowing who designed it, who was the artist, who did the layout, who did the sound, like that wasn't a thing that existed back then. It did not exist. That's the point. That's why, you know, I kind of brought these people out of the – behind the wall and let people introduce them to the general public. Yeah, and what a show like this allows people to do is connect with these people and actually give their gameplay experience as an end user back to the people designing these things. So that feedback's got to be helpful for them. It was interesting because I remember Norm Clark, we had a panel discussion, He was talking about over the years people would submit designs of pinball machines. One particular year, a couple of designs came in. He said actually they were pretty good. And then he was getting ready to reach out to them until he realized this guy was a prisoner in the penal system. So he just kind of mixed that idea. I bet. But so when this started then, was this just a one-night banquet event, and then it just grew from there? We had seminars. We had seminars, and then I think in year two, we even started doing pinball tournaments there. But most of the seminars, we had a factory tour, and the banquet was the main thing. And then we had a vendor hall. We had about 30 vendors at the time. And it was crazy because we had all the turn-many classes at the time, again this is 1985, they were there as well as other people that were just mis-lending people who had bought and sold these games. So you have brand new games, that's what these, it's scrap piece. And it was a while, but we had a good time. And again, back then we had 100 people. So Pimbal and Echo number one, 100 people. Yeah. I mean, this is 1985. Like, who's going to this event? How are people even finding out about it? You don't have any, no social media. You have to put ads in papers or like flyers at bus stops or something. So you're right, no social media. So back then, that's what I called it. Because, you know, I'm from the Fred Flintstone era. But for me, that was the good old days because people used the phone and talked to their friends, and that was the way they communicated back then. But Steve Young had a publication called Pinball Collectors' Quarterly. And in that publication the first thing he did to help me out was I put out a questionnaire And the questionnaire is would you be interested in coming to a National Pinball Collectors Convention show in Chicago And we had a questionnaire of about 10 different questions the best time of year to do it the best city to do it and so forth And it came to us, and I mean, yes, do it. So the only, like you said, and you're right, we've done a lot. And back then, the only way to communicate was either through the phone. And get ready, Don, when you do this, you're going to cry. Back then, how we communicated was we would have a cassette deck, and we would spend anywhere from a 15 to a 30-minute conversation on a cassette. And we would send that cassette by the U.S. mail to our friends, and they would listen to it, and then they would respond back with the cassette. Wow. This is Stone Age, baby. So, I mean, it was either that or a letter. But if we really wanted to spend a lot of time talking about anything and everything, we would use Cossettes. So if you were a pinball content troll back then, you actually had to break out the tape deck, record your hateful message, and then buy postage and send that directly to – well, that must have really – it had to really sting if you wanted to go through all that work to record and send a tape. But remember, Don, those were what we called the peaceful times back then. People believed in the American flag and prayer and God and all that stuff and being courteous and being respectful. So, you know, it was a different time back then. Correct, correct. I think everybody would agree to that time being different. So flash forward to now, there's a four-day event going on every year at this huge Renaissance hotel, right? This one's October 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So is this truly like a four-day, I can go there and play pinball every single day, or is one day just for dealers and then it's open to the public for the weekend? Or how is it structured? Don, have you been to the 740s? Have you been there? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, there's so much to see and do. You couldn't do it in one day. in the course of the students' course on Friday, so that takes up half a day. But the seminars go from morning to night every single day. We have that going for the autograph session, for the vendor hall, for the tournaments. You know, that's the thing. Sometimes some of your first-time listeners will ask that question, you know, can I see everything in a day or two? And the answer is probably no, because there's just so much to do and so much to see. Even the vendor hall alone, we have 100,000 square feet of vendor space, and it's still up. Yeah, I mean, speaking from my experience, I've been going for several years now, and I will spend, like, morning to night until you kick me out on the vendor floor itself. I barely even go to any of the seminars. I can't tear myself away to get to seminars, and I still feel like there's more to do. I'm walking in Sunday morning, people are breaking down. I'm like, sad, what happened? Yeah, everyone comes from a different reason. That's a good point. Yeah. If you're into one aspect of it, seeing the vendor space, then that takes up a whole day. You're exactly right. You know, the show is going over years. The first year of Expo, we had seminars for, I think, like three hours of seminars one day and two hours another day. I mean, now it's just the hours of the seminars are crazy. But, you know, half the fun of coming to Pinball X-Fits, the first-timers, is meeting these game designers and artists. You know, for me, one of the highlights of the show is my ability to get some of these superstars to come out of retirement or agree to come to Expo one more time. And the first example of that is Pat Lawler. So, you know, if you like Addams Family or Twilight Zone or Worldwin or any of the games that we've designed, it's an extremely rare opportunity to meet the man behind the scenes. And last year he came and he told me this would be his final year. And I pretty much begged him to give me one more year at the Expo because he has so much to offer. He's very articulate. And yesterday this guy had gotten in the industry. He just turned terrible. so because of that he can speak forever so anyone coming to Expo this year you want to do yourself a favor and come to at least and this is for you too Uncle Don at least come to the Pat Lawler seminar because when you listen to him and see him talk you'll appreciate the rich history that he has to share with people in the audience and he'll be speaking about the Ganty producing organs So that's a very special seminar for me. Of course, having Steve Ritzy, who's also a star in the games he's produced. He'll be talking about his pinball design games, starting with Airborne Adventures and Atari. So he'll be discussing all the games he designs. So, you know, anyone who's into history, even a little bit about pinball, should find these guys quite interesting. and also Joe Camical. Donnie, you can tell me who Joe Camical is. I've heard the name, and I'm familiar with his work, and I haven't met the man in person. Okay, so Joe ended up with Jerry Stern, and they started Daddy East Pinball. What year was I? 86, 87, I can't remember for sure. But they started this company from scratch, and they built the way to Jerry Stern. But Joe Camical was also famous for one other thing, and that is he was the one that walked his talk and said, I'm going to build a Beatles pinball machine. So according to Joe, he spent a million dollars out of his pocket, his own pocket to pull that out. Wow. So, I mean, Joe would be there speaking to Gary, but anyone in the early Daddy East games, you know, Laser Wars, and kind of things of other ones. torpedo alley was one I think they did, and back to the future, time machine, et cetera, et cetera. This was during the day, but Joe Canada was there with Gary, and he'll be answering questions and talking about those early games, but also during the audience, he said, Joe, tell me about the Beatles. Because to me, that was an amazing, amazing project that he pulled off. Again, guys, a lot of guys, people don't come to the seminars, Don. You're not alone. But some of these seminars are worth stepping away from to check them out. These guys are three-thirty stars in the industry. And let's face it, they can be gone tomorrow. Well, I think the access is important, too. A lot of hobbies, you need to wait in lines to get autographs from people that were involved in television and film production and other projects that you're interested in here like i get excited every time i see Steve Ritchie walking around i mean this man you know came from valley williams days he worked on a lot of games i was playing as a kid he worked on video games and did voices so like it's fun just like bouncing into him and if you've got a favorite game that you own at home it's not a terrible idea to just go ahead and grab a plastic off of it stick it in your pocket with a sharpie because who know you may walk into the designer or somebody that did rules or music or something and then go ahead and sign that for you can go put in your game. And then, Don, of course, we have the autograph session on Saturday. So oftentimes people will be there with quote-unquote translights and everything they think of, sometimes playfields, and they'll bring them there to the autograph session, and these guys will sign it. And they don't charge, by the way. You know, you're right about some of these Comic-Cons. I was able to meet the guy who did the voice of Courage the Dog. Nice. You know, that cost $50. Yeah. And then I met Billy West. Billy West was the guy who did the voice of Ren and Stumpy. And that caused, I don't remember what it was, but I guess the point being, and you bring up a good point, these superstars, you know, they charge money, got to get in line, and blah, blah, blah. You know, Pinball, these guys are still dying to earn it, and they offer these signatures and pictures in no charge. So it's a real treat. You know, Pinball Expo was the first event that they have this, and other shows have followed since. But we have by far the largest contingency of design clients, only because we're in Chicago, we're home of pinball. So it's very convenient for these guys to come. And one guy that just reached out to me that won't be coming this year, and he did not go to any other event, but the member I'm seeing, Don, by the name of Captain Fantastic. Yeah, and not only that, the legends that are there, but there's also, this is the place to play, like, all of the new games all under one roof, you know. And, I mean, we got all the – I'm excited about everything that's already been revealed and announced. Of course, you know, Stern will be there with their new Star Wars game, which is just shipping now. It'll be a place where you can probably play all three trim levels of Harry Potter in one place. But not only that, like getting to play, you know, ABBA and Alien. Do we know, though, what brand-new games will debut here? Is Predator going to be here? Because that's probably one that myself and a lot of people are looking forward to. As of now, the answer is yes. Yes. Okay. All right. So I'll put that in a win column. Those guys make some great games. And then you've got Dutch Pinball. You've got Alice in Wonderland. That one will be there. And Tommy Floyd, he's got a company called Knights of Pinball. He's out of Canada, but he's got a location also in the U.S. But he has helped me in getting a boost. He's bringing in a couple games from a company called Home Pin. Oh, tell me more. Home Pin, they made the most recent game was... Blues Brothers. You got it, pal. Yeah. But Donnie knows, and Blues Brothers will be at Expo. I've never seen the game. This game was made in China. The guy behind it, I think it was Alex Dillon in the ring. Yeah, Mike from Home Pin. Yeah. Right. So he built a factory in China where they build these games. And the Blues Brothers will be there. There'll be some games there from Spain called Bitronic. They'll be there with some of their games. I'm not sure what else they've got. They usually bring a Super Hoop and the Tokyo Drift game, which... Very good. Uncle Don, you're on top of your game. Just rare games. The only place I've seen one of these to play has been at Expo. So, yeah, and Blues Brothers is a treat to get to play because of how rare that game is probably going to be pretty much for life long. I don't think you're going to see a lot of these outside of a high-end collector that may have one. So go play a Blues Brothers. You've got to play it. But also we have a company from France. It's called Vexa, A-T-X-A, and they make a game called Space Fun. Yes. They are getting a boot, a 20 by 20 boot. So we're going to have a pile of games there for you to play. Yeah, so. I have one on the floor at my arcade called Fast Times. And that game never breaks down. I'll tell you what, I give these guys credit. They figure something out. But that game will be at the show. There's so many games coming. Plus, Don, we have to mention that the home blue section. Yes. Has exploded this year. But, you know, thanks to Jake Jancig and Manolo Harney and others, Aaron Davis. They have helped in this realm of this aspect of pinball. The homebrew stuff is just getting really cool. And these guys are producing some fantastic things. One of the guys that makes a game called Steamboat Willie. I always wanted to see that game in person, so I talked to a guy who was going to bring me the show to Epsom. So he'll be there with his game. Perfect. I've played that before. It was at a Louisville Arcade Expo, which I think is more local to where he lives. So, yeah, you're bringing that game. Yeah, I mean, who doesn't love a black and white game? But, yeah, I'm glad that's coming. That's amazing. And then I got another guy I met down there on the shelves in Wisconsin. He made Cuphead, the pinball Cuphead. Uh-huh. Oh, yes. Yes, okay. Not the one that everybody immediately thought of, but the homebrew version. that is actually available to play. Yes. So to me, that's exciting. He's coming. So the homebrew guys, Jake Danzig, by the way, he created a game to help us some other players. But from what I understand, this homebrew game is so over the top that everyone that has seen it says you're going to want to buy this game. And my friend is in the sale. But the guy's name, by the way, was Scott Miller. He makes the Cuphead game. Okay. Jake's game out here is just absolutely fantastic over the top. And, you know, guys, what's fun about the Homebrew section is you see some of these young developers, new designers, and they're creating these wonderful games. But in the old days, they were just whiteboards. now they've got full artwork on and gone not to be outdone um i i showed a game last year that is halfway in the completion stage it's not completed but we call it mothership stop it it's playable it's upper line but the mothership is a a little bit larger version of the atari perfect a little bit larger yeah it's like the four times the size of hercules man that thing is massive. I don't know how you got that in the building. It's going to be multiball. Can you imagine a multiball jumbo game? Crazy. So that's my dream, and Ernie Silverberg is helping me make it a reality, and he'll have it on display there in the home blue area. There are so many cool home blue games coming. Anybody who's even questioned once about should I go to Expo, should I? I've never been there before, and I don't know, too far away, guys, if you come one time, you're going to scream. And the first thing they're going to do is say, Don, put me on your podcast. And you're going to say, wow. And they say, I just want to say how great that feel was. And you're going, man, it was great. But there's just so much happening, people, that I can't stress enough that you should really make an effort, especially the first time, just to check it out. Because there's a significant amount of energy in the show. The other one is just on top of cloud nine, high-fiving, hugging, clapping, meeting people, saying things for the first time, you know, I don't know how to put it in a word, Don. I mean you could probably express this as much as I would as I always been familiar with you Yeah I mean for those of us that like pinball that like our old classic games that like me that like playing brand new things I mean this is like you know Wonka's opened the door to the chocolate room, right? And there's everything. And not only everything, but like every version is available. You know, you go to an arcade and they may have the pro version of a new game that was released, or maybe you might find a premium, or you have a friend that got an LE. But to see them all side by side next to each other so you can really see all the differences, and see, okay, fresh out of the box, how should this brand-new game be playing? Like, you can do it all there. I wander around. It's like different neighborhoods, you know. Here's the spooky area. Turner's over here. He's going to give me an onion ring, and I can play. I got to play Ninja Eclipse next to Roger Sharp last year. I mean, there's all these things that could only happen on that show floor and only happen in Chicago where it's the home of pinball. So the designers don't have to travel far, so everybody is there. Like, this is, like, the industry show. And there's a reason I never leave the show floor for four days. There's just so much going on and so much I want to do. You know, another thing is I got a phone call from Jack O'Neary, who's here today. He said, Rob, he said, you know, a lot of people are excited about X-Pro. We're going to have a very large display. He said he was selling their latest game, Harry Potter. And he said, we're also going to bring to the show one of every game we've produced from day one. in game one. So, Wizard of Oz, Valorant, every, Hobbit, you name it, every game they've created up to this point in time, including the newest game, will be on display at the show. And they'll all be there for free play. So guys, I don't know what, you know, what I'm thinking about. What are you, how do you talk about, what do you talk about first? It gets so much happy and so many going on. And then the podcast guys are getting together and high-fiving and seeing each other. You know, there's so many people connecting at the show. So that's the one thing, you know, one day we have an event called the Bumper Blast, and that takes place at the Interion, which is like a family entertainment center. Right down the street, yeah. They are invited to go to the Interion, and the buses will leave from the hotel throughout the night. But what makes that cool is, first of all, the food offering there is first class, man. Delicious food, everything's made at Z, number one. But number two, this would be the first time that you're going to have a chance to meet a lot of the international pinball enthusiasts. So we have guys coming from Italy, Spain, Japan, Germany. I think we've kind of met 10 or 12 different countries we've represented. But they will all be at the next bowl and they will come to the Ontario. But what's cool is you'll meet these guys and you'll just start talking. Hey, what's going on, Ivan? He's from Italy, and he's one of my favorite guys because he is the guy, if you remember, Don, a year or two ago, he brought that Radical. That's right, Radical. I remember that one. I mean, you remember it, Don. When I saw that game, he was doing this, and this was sale. I said, bring it right to my place. He said, I've got to buy it. but you'll get a chance to see these guys and sit and talk with them, drink and beer, eat and food, talk with them. The next thing you know, you've got some new buddies, some new pen pals, whatever you want to call it. And you'll have lunch with them or dinner because these guys are cool. You know, pinball is universal, let's face it. Pinball actually brings a lot of people all over the globe to the show and you get a chance to meet these people. And a lot of them are great people. You'll really enjoy it. yeah i mean uh it's a the great equalizer right like you know you can be high profile or just a typical fan but everybody's on the same play field there you know when you get to play together and and uh yeah like i see walls break down between people and it's just like talking about cool shots or or fun combos or or rumors of games coming out or like our favorite games that we've played in the past or have you seen this cool mod or whatever it is and it's it's all in one place I mean, you know, the classic games that you like But not only that, but sometimes like the best Versions of that game that you'll ever see Like that Radical was amazing I mean, it was dripping with chrome, covered with Radcals, everything completely restored You know, like, the last time you got To see a game in that good a condition Was back when it just came out of the factory So, you know, to see It completely restored as it was fresh Off the factory floor, in the best condition Ever, I mean, yeah, that was amazing And the one thing I can say Is, um, I think a couple games I've been bringing to the show this year, and one of them is maybe gone, you remember this one, it was made by Ballard, it's called BMX. Okay, I'm not terribly aware of that one. Well, I took a peek at Google, BMX, it was a game made by Wally Walsh, and you don't see it too often, but it was a low production, but I'll be having that next fall. There's another game I'll have in, but you don't see, it was made by Greg Kermit called Transporter, And it's an early Valley game, so you can look these games up. But I'll have it on display for the show. And by the way, I mentioned Greg Kamek. Greg Kamek will be the expo in the honor guard session. Greg is most famous for designing both Cat and Fantastic and the game called Wizard, if you remember that game from the day. But he's a retired guy, but he was more of an EM guy. but he also one of the last things he built was Break Shot for Capcom Robert Blakeman will be there and he does not go to any other shows, they're very low profile, but he will be at X-Mod at the autograph session so if you're into pinball at all, to see these guys is just fantastic, and what's really cool for me is to see these guys, even Rodney Sharp over here and so many others but just to shake their hand and say man, thank you for this. Thank you for that. In a lot of these days, thank you for what you did in New York City to help legalize pinball in the state of New York. So, you know, it's a chance to really express your feelings to these guys. It's really a cool opportunity. Yeah, 100%, man. I look forward to it every year. I can't believe it's almost upon us. As you're talking, I'm putting down like a hit list of things I want to make sure I don't miss. I have to play Mothership now. That game is unreal in how big that is. I don't know how you even transport it. Hexa will be there. You had your space hunt. Thanks for bringing that. That was the first place I got to play one was your personal copy. Now Hexa's in the U.S. There's two distributors now, Pinball Star and Mad Pinball, with Jeff and MadPinball.com. Nitro up in Canada. So we'll see more Hexa. They have passed on to me that they'll be revealing the theme of their follow-up game at Expo. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. So that's coming. And then the game itself will be seen later next year. But, yeah, we should hear that theme soon. I heard that. We got the Pat Lawler seminar, the Bumper Blast event that goes on, and then autograph signing so you can go and meet everybody in one long walkthrough. So that's not even counting the rest of the homebrew area, all the other brand-new games that will be there, the vendors, all the fun stuff that's brought, and whatever else shenanigans people get up to late into the evening. I want to share something else with you. Yeah. So you know the company called Market? Okay. The parts and parts. Okay. Marco, yes, Marco Specialties. Yeah. So Marco, I've been after them for several years to do something for me, and I begged him and pleaded and offered three dinners for life. Nothing worked. Finally, Marco Ramirez finally said, this year your dream will come true. Okay, hit me with it. Marco is getting a 70-foot by 80-foot booth, which is massive. And inside that booth, they're going to have the homebrew, but also inside that booth, they're going to have the Marco supermarket. And basically what it is, it's scratch-and-dent parts, discontinued parts, over-run parts, and it's going to be a supermarket, They're nothing but full of bargains and deals and buying stuff right off the shelf. So you can rummage through the shelf. Ah, I need this lamb. I can't believe you got it. You have no idea. I have no idea what will be there. But they are going to clean out warehouses and bring all these miscellaneous parts of supply to the shelf. I am very excited about that. I might get a bunch of bodyguards around me so I can crush into that thing and be starting to look up some other goodies. It should be a lot of fun. So this is going to be an opportunity to stock up then. I'm going to have to bring a separate trailer or something to bring everything home. Now you're talking. Yeah, give me those ramps and wire forms. I want to come build stuff at home. That's amazing. So that's going to be a lot of fun. There's a guy coming, and I'm glad you're sitting down, Don. There's a guy coming from the country of Hungary, Budapest, Hungary. What in the world is in Budapest, Hungary? There's a manufacturer there that makes playfield glass. and he is coming from Hungary to be selling glass at the show crazy we're hungry for glass yeah there's so much going on at the show guys vendors that are coming some for the first time some of the repeat vendors and what's happening also is a lot of people that have been to the show have had a lot of success so they keep requesting larger booths. So some of the layouts will be fantastic. I got one great American pinball guy in Chicago. He's getting a booth 30 by 40, which for him is like triple what he normally gets. But he should be bringing so many games and supplies down there. It just, I don't know if you're listening to this, you know, he wants to tell you what to do first, but I hope you're staying through the three-day period. There's so much going on. Once again, donate again, and you're going to have a John Wick premium in the raffle, which are both a make-a-wish. The money will go to make-a-wish. Teresa Jackson's got a game. I'm not sure what the title is offhand, but they have a game also. The money will go to the Boys and Girls Club of Chicago. So, you know, many times they're coming. and not only the silver goods, but the support and help people that need the help and assistance. So the community is all about pinball, and the pinball is all about the community. And we all together in one group at Pinball Eskimo that weekend. It's around the corner, guys. So I'm hoping you guys make the effort to come. And for those of you that have toured the Sturmkrieg, this is also a very special opportunity. We didn't even talk about the tours. Yeah, you get to tour literally every pinball factory in Chicago, basically. Well, we did that last year for the 40th. I lost my mind, and we had three or four tours, and it was crazy. But Stern's got some giveaways that they're only going to have to be tour people only. I don't know what it is, if it's a coin, if it's a hat, if it's something unique, but it'll only be given at the Stern factory tour. So this is intriguing to me. They got my interest out. Wow. All right. I love exclusives. Well, perfect. I don't want to take up too much more of your time, but anything else we really need to hit about this show? I mean, it's around the corner. We're a couple of weeks out, Wednesday through Saturday, October 15th to the 18th, Schaumburg Renaissance Hotel Expo Center, the place to be, 100,000 square feet, a million games, maybe a little bit less. But, yeah, it's going to be awesome. Oh, also, did I mention the 1930s exhibit? Oh, that's for the pre-war games, yeah. You got it. This year, the guy making the booth even larger than last year. Did you see it last year, Don? I did. It was like a little speakeasy set up. A bunch of people in period costumes. Yeah, it was nuts. So they're doing that again, and this time, like last year, they're going to do a 1930s tournament. I don't care what level of skills you got. Anyone can play a 1930s game. There's no flipper. There's no tilt. All you do is kind of give it a little bump or nudge. That's all you can do. But that was such a popular attraction last year. Guys, make sure you make it for it. Don, put that on your hit list. I got to hit the 1930s exhibit. Perfect. There are going to be a ton of games to play, and there will be some for sale next year. So another great thing, another great adventure in Timbo, Australia. I don't know how I'm going to see it all, but I'm going to be there every day. I can't wait. One more thing. Oh, no. There's two movies there. Two movies. Okay. Mark Helms, it's called the Pinball, the American Game, and another guy making a movie called For Your Amusement. Two new pinball movies that will be shown. I'm not sure if they're movies or if they're documentaries or whatever, but they'll be also shown in the evening there, actually. And will this be over in the seminar room? Yes. All right. So, Rob, I thank you for allowing me to speak on your great podcast channel, and I really hope that you and others will make an effort to check out more of Expo. As much as you focus on one thing, maybe it's time to start checking other things out. Yeah, and Rob, I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into throwing on an event like this every year, so thanks so much for your enthusiasm and for putting together a forum like this that we get to count on for new games, old games, rating Marco's back store now as well as some films. I'm going to live in the homebrew area for the most part. I'm seriously excited about Mothership. That thing is a spectacle. Perfect. Well, thanks so much, Rob. Appreciate it. All right, buddy. All the best. All right, thanks. Rob Burke, thanks so much for joining and making this episode, number 207 of Don's Pinball Podcast, the absolute greatest that it could be. Expo's coming up. I'm going to be there. You're going to be there. Come get a T-shirt. Come get some stickers. Shake some hands. Kiss some babies. Do whatever you want to do. But let's play some cool homebrew machines. I can't wait to play Mothership, man. Did you see that thing last year? It's like four times the size of Hercules, dwarfing it in its awesomeness. And it's allegedly playable and with a multiball? email your homies don spinball podcast at gmail.com to get at me email jeff at madpinball.com get yourself a game get yourself on a list get yourself in line from some spooky business this spooky season it's gonna be spooktacular i can't wait i'm gonna be at expo it's gonna be awesome. Bring that homebrew topper. Bring your wife. Let me meet her. Otherwise, we'll get some food, we'll get some snacks, we'll have some fun. It's going to be great. I'll talk to you guys later. Be good.