Hello and welcome to episode 7 of the Pinball Studio Podcast. Today I've got my good friend Mr. Shannon Stafford. He's a competitive pinball player, a collector, and so much more. And today we're going to hear his journey and how he found the silver ball. Anyway, welcome, Shannon. How's it going, my friend? Doing well, doing well. Thanks for having me. Yeah, man. I've been wanting you to come on the show for some time, so it's good to finally have you here. Good to be here, of course. And right before a pinball tournament, so we'll squeeze it in. Definitely, definitely. But anyway, yeah, we just want to hear your story today And we usually just start off with your earliest memory Like did you play as a kid or did it come later on in life? Oh man, this is going to be a long story I first started playing probably when I was about five years old It was very, very early Right My mother was single And the people down the street from me, they babysat me They had a huge family Had about 8 kids Yeah And also they had a pinball machine I gravitated towards A little bit here and there And it was in one of the kids bedrooms If they were asleep and stuff I couldn't go play it or anything But when they were awake I would just gravitate towards it They had a Gottlieb Grand Slam With the center rotary with the holes With the first, second, third base It was a nice pin They had it for a bit I would go there and play it every day Every day they watched me, babysat me I was more than happy to go there and I would play it Every day, hours and hours, they'd have to drag me off the machine When it was broke, I was always upset Because I didn't get to play that day But I tell you, that's where it all started Then as I progressed and started getting older Being that they babysat me I tell you, CPS probably should have been involved several times. It's just funny how things went from me just playing there. Right. The older kids that were probably in high school, I was still very young. Maybe about seven, they still had the machine. So all the kids would get together at a good friend's house down the street and partake. Of course, you know, 18 was the drinking age back then. Man, I'm old. I'm telling you everything now. So they would sit there and all get together and do a little drinking. And they were watching me and whatnot. So not too well, I'm guessing, because I ended up they brought me to someone's house. I was there for a bit. And then all of a sudden I was supposed to be dropped off. I hung out with them, went back into a vehicle with them. They didn't pay attention, had no idea. I went back into the car with them. And they, in turn, went to town. There was a place called The Cottages. It's where all the older high school kids hung out. I was still, like I say, about seven. And they couldn't believe it. You got back in the car. You were supposed to go over there and stay at the house with them. I said, well, I'm here. Well, I guess we're going to have to take you inside. I said, okay. They had pinball machines in there. That's where it really all started. I played hang glider, the old hang glider machine. wasn't that just in the stranger things episode i think on yes it was and i noticed it as soon as i saw the side of it that was one of those weird things when i was a child and you know i'll talk about that later but it's just one of those things where i can see the side stenciling on the older machine and my father couldn't believe it because as i got older i could go at a 7-eleven and look in the window i know what that is and i tell him and he goes i just can't believe you understand every time you see a machine like that you know exactly what it is You know, it's not like today where Adam's family is on the side or stranger things. And you can tell what they are. Back then it was all stencil art. Right. So it was really hard to tell. But I could see it driving down the street in a car. I'd go, that's what they have. That's what they have. They all, you know, that was just one of my things. My dad couldn't believe it. But anyway, we went to the place called the cottages. We went there. They had like three or four machines. They had a hang glider. I do remember that It's one of those things that's just etching my brain I played it over and over They had a Royal Flush Gottlieb They had the Hang Glider Aladdin's Castle Because you know those Aladdin's Castles were really made For the arcade Aladdin's Castle, well they ended up getting one So, you know, I played that there as well And I just I just gravitated to pinball I mean it was just one of those things It's never the same It's always different Even on the older things I mean even though the older machines Only have a couple of rules But when you were playing as a kid You just wanted to keep the ball alive Especially at that age I mean I was progressing and getting better and better at that age But you just want to keep the ball alive And keep winning games and just keep rolling So it went from there And then They lost their Grand Slam They ended up selling it And they got a blue chip I think it's a Williams Yeah, Williams Blue Chip, an old one, another EM. I gravitated to that. And, I mean, I just kept playing and playing and playing. I'd always try and find areas to play new games. Like I say, 7-Elevens were huge in Virginia. That's where I'm from, 7-Elevens, bowling alleys. Right. You know, when you're younger. I mean, of course, when you were younger, they had all the arcades. You could get dropped off there. Of course, nowadays, you know, it's frowned upon. You know, back then I was 11, 12, 13. Oh, yeah. I remember going to like the movie theater and then running back to the mall that was like across the street for hours. And my parents probably didn't see me for 10 hours straight. And they didn't care. They're like, OK, I think pinball and arcades and stuff like that back in the day. Or what social media is now, they could easily take you there and you were fine. You didn't feel threatened. You know, it's not like today where you can't drop your kids off somewhere. if they're 10, 11, and 12 and just feel that they're going to be safe. It's just different. I mean, I feel that that was on social media back then. Pinball, video games, whatnot. We'd go to the mall, stay there all day, play, and we were fine. Now, of course, you got your tablets, this, that, the other thing that holds most kids' interest. It's a little different, you know. Yeah, I mean, and as I progressed and got older, after all the younger days, when I got my teens, My dad, funny enough, and my mom, malls. I would go to the mall. My dad would hand me a dollar and say, hey, Saturday that malls would open, what, 10 o'clock in the morning, 9 o'clock at night? I could stay there on $1 from the time they opened till they closed. Damn. $1. That's it. I had played so much and learned so much from playing that I could just win over and over and over. And I'd leave with 50 cent. I'd still only use 50 cent. It was crazy. And I just that's the one thing that gravitated to the sounds. You know, it's just this is the way it was. I mean, a lot of people and when video games kicked in, don't get me wrong. I did enjoy video games as well. I started playing in tournaments in certain games But pinball always gravitated back to I mean it's always different There's always a story There's everything going on in the pin It is never the same Physics Yeah there was something always about pinball When I'd go into an arcade Just something about seeing like the world under glass And I was just like whoa these are so cool Compared to a video game for whatever reason Oh I totally agree I think you know I can count probably on my hands and feet. I've played almost like a lot of the machines, except maybe the Italian machines, the Brazilian machines and stuff from overseas. But anything I gravitated to and tried it and liked it. I mean, I always get that question. What's your favorite machine now? It's like I don't have a favorite machine because being a tournament player, I have to like everything. There's some I like more than others. But I have to learn how to play a machine, period. It doesn't matter. You know, I'm going to learn to like it. All right, so getting back to arcades, I would travel everywhere. My father would, like I say, he'd give me a dollar, said, hey, make this last. And what was funny is when I graduated pinball, he played pinball with me and tried to learn the nuances and learn certain things. But, of course, when you're younger, you're really just trying to keep the ball on the table. Well, like I say, it wasn't very rule heavy, but you played several different games. Just keep the ball going and you were OK. My father would try and get into it and tried to play with me. But, you know, he wasn't as good or getting as good. I mean, he was older. So he gravitated towards like certain video games. He played like Hubert. He learned how to play certain games because he was there all day with me. Right. And he would just have to he'd have to do something to pass the time. So he was mean at Hubert and like asteroids and stuff like that. he had to play something while I was playing pinball. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. When I was younger, I had no idea there was rules to pinball. I thought you just kept the ball alive on the play field, and that was it. Yeah, when I was probably 5 to 10, that's what you did. You just tried to keep the ball on the table and just win games. You tried to get the most points you could possibly get just to keep rolling. Because, of course, you give me a dollar. I mean, I leave with money, but I would just sit there and play over and over and over. you know you can win games and just keep going i but like i say it was you know 7-elevens uh we had a place called soaps and suds laundromats were really good because you had to do something while you're doing your clothes they would have a couple machines in there uh putt-putt golfing games you ever heard that they're up north i mean they'd have several machines and any mall would have three four or five machines back then right and you got to play a variety i mean i played like i a lot of things you know i do like certain machines i love you know i've discussed love raven i love a lot of people don't care for those but i do like i did appreciate those like hey i like spy hunter and most people hate that game listen like i told you i have to i have to like everything and i do like spy hunter certain games just have certain quirks i mean you'll never see another spy hunter you'll never see anything even close to it i mean i like what they did back Kings of Steel, I mean a lot of those are like rinse and repeat And they're real easy, but I do like a lot of the licensing It wasn't back then, it wasn't like movies and this and that And I liked it, I liked Whirlwind, Earthshaker, all those type of games Like I say, I've played them all, I mean I enjoyed them Adam's Family, I mean I can tell you I'm trying to think, I'm trying to go back now putt putt was a big place for me i mean i would go there and play all day i mean i can tell you other things i've got left behind at places because i would sit on a game all night my friends would like hey we're leaving we're leaving and where i lived it was called the seven cities it was hampton roads area in virginia ced newport news and portsmouth and even virginia beach and norfolk right i would get left at a bowling alley my my friends would leave me as a teenager hey you've played too long and they would leave me there and I'd have to find a way home miles and miles away I'd have to call my mom or one of my friends would take me him I had that happened to me quite a bit from playing I just couldn't stop I would get on a game or something I got left in Virginia Beach and that's like 50 miles away from my house they would just leave me there just let me play like hey man you didn't come get me well you were on a pinball machine stayed all night I mean so yeah I left you said okay well I guess I'll have to keep finding right time that happened quite a bit too as well but i was never that good i was well i only played pinball a little bit growing up i was actually playing more of the video games but i swear i was out of quarters way faster than all my friends so i'd be like i'm going home yeah i mean it was just crazy i mean skating rinks i mean i can tell you all these places i played at and like i say they would have a couple machines and even a couple of the malls and putt-putt and stuff like They would ask me, what's the newest game? What's the one that's going to make the most money when it comes in? And I would tell them, and they would get those. And that helped me a lot with my playing because they would get the games that I wanted. Like Adam's Family, of course, you know, when that came out, it was huge. And one of the guys goes, what's the best game for me to get right now? I said, Adam's Family. You're going to make your money tenfold on that thing. I guarantee it. and I did have like two or three of my friends that were avid pinball players. That's the one thing back in the day, there really wasn't a lot of avid pinball players that played nonstop. Like you would have a group of two or three people that would get together all the time and play, but you wouldn't have like it is today. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds could get together and go play somewhere. It was a lot different. I mean, most people, like I say, we're in the video game era, you know, It seemed like pinball was more of a nerdy thing Or something like that A lot of people just didn't play it Compared to a video game Yeah, when I was growing up They just weren't everywhere I remember a couple at the movie theater And then also like the bowling alley And even like in our mall at that point They had got rid of pinball And it was just like your street fighter type games And all that at that point Yeah, oh I agree And I do think that pinball machines back then To work on them I think it was more of the tech issue. The tech issue was bad. You could easily fix a joystick in a video game, a CRT monitor, buttons. It was a lot easier. I mean, of course, if you have a board problem or something, that's fine. You can get that fixed. But when it came to a pen with all the wiring and everything, it was crazy. They were hard to keep up with. Yeah, it's a lot of maintenance compared to an arcade game. And I mean, even a joystick, how long, you know, that might last years before you need to replace it. Exactly. Or a switch. I mean, a switch is easy to replace. Stock ball on a pinball machine might happen 30 minutes after you turn it on, you know? Oh, yeah, I totally agree. And back in the day, and I would say now, routed. When I played, when I was a kid, I think that's how I became a better player. And I tell people this. They go, you know, and they do ask me, I mean, how did you become a decent player? I said, I played routed machines. And they go, so what do you mean? I said I would play a game and if I knew something didn't work, I would do something else because you'd have to to get a score in this, that, and the other thing. Say the ramp didn't work on a certain machine. You had to find a different way to score. You had to play it different. You know, if it was real dirty, you had to find certain ways to conquer that to get a better score. I mean, that's just the way it is. So, routing machines helped me so much with my playing because, you know, you play them on location. Now, I do believe a lot of locations take care of the machines now compared to. There are some places that do just, you know, they're the machines on location and just collect quarters. It's not like it used to be. I mean, that's the way it always was. Usually back in the day is you would have them, say, at a bar laundromat. They just dropped them in there, make their money, and they were happy. They just come get the quarters and they're good. And nowadays you do find a lot of places that take care of the stuff. They put them on location. They'll clean them every once in a while. That's fine as long as all the mechanisms and everything works. It's great. Right. But, yeah, routed back in the day was crazy because, yeah, I mean. A whole flipper not working for a year. Yes, crazy. I mean, and you'd complain and save stuff. And it was like they would fix it, but they would fix it with, like, bubble gum. I mean, like I'm saying, they would do very little, but they wanted that money and that coin. And I think, you know, back in the day, that's what was really... I can't imagine, like, you know, not having the Internet and trying to... It's hard enough for me to find these parts sometimes with the Internet. So I can imagine back in the day maybe looking through a catalog and calling phone numbers to try to find a part. It's crazy. I mean, you know, I felt bad or feel bad for them back in the day. Now, just like you say, you can go online. You can pretty much find parts for anything. There are some older machines that are hard to find parts for. And then 3D printing now. I mean people you know you can find this part but someone already designed it so we can at least 3D print it Can you like with a 3D printer i just asking can you like do ramps certain parts of ramps i seeing some homebrewers do that now so like they're designing all their ramps in plastic you know 3d printed plastic and then maybe later on down the road they switch it to metal or something so like for prototyping and stuff that's awesome i mean you know anything to help you know with a machine that has a problem you know a ramp not working and just like you say with homebrews i mean like my bally grand slam uh the flyaway targets nobody makes the the mechanism and the mounts that hold that but somebody online had redesigned all that so i was able to otherwise mine wouldn't even work if i didn't have those 3d printed parts and there was only a couple games with that what speakeasy i think it's just i think it's just those speakeasy grand slam yeah so nobody makes parts you know it's not even worth it and i do like i i actually enjoy that mechanism just for the fact that you know it's sequence based and it knows you know on speakeasy 10 through ace you know and on this homer i like i do like that system on what they put on those two games and like i say it's different you probably never see that again but right you know i'm i do enjoy seeing things nowadays like i'll go ahead and say it beetlejuice oh yeah that game is awesome it's packed for the for the money It is packed I mean they packed it to the gills And are giving you everything you want In that game I mean some games don't have a lot now But I have to give them credit I mean I think I've liked all their games from the beginning But as they've progressed I think they've really hit their stride Really with me It's just my opinion Scooby Doo I think when that started Anything you know Evil Dead great game a lot of stuff going on in there too texas chainsaw mask is pretty cool i got some time on that a couple weeks ago again and uh that game's fun it is i i just know that it was you know when i played it it was a code thing i know they had two separate coders correct they had one on looney tunes and they had one on texas it wasn't the same one they both had different i think the flipper was dying on one and then they had some resetting issues i think they fixed that i at At least I didn't notice it the other day, but that was a little aggravating at first. That was right before Spooky had like stepped it up to the next notch. And I do, I love Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I think the art package, art, I mean, what can I say? The artist, I mean, Franchi does pretty much everything now, correct? Yeah, yeah. I think he's the full-time artist there. Full-time artist. I mean, I just enjoy his art. His art's great. Like I say, Beetlejuice, Evil Dead. I mean, I just don't know what to say. It's just so much stuff. I'm getting overloaded just thinking about it. As much stuff that's packed in Evil Dead and Beetlejuice. And I haven't seen Beetlejuice. I want to play Winchester, too. That game looks interesting. It does. It does. I think Carl did a great job right out the gate. I do think it's a beautiful game. And I want to shoot one as well. My wife really, really goes. She really gravitated As soon as she saw it She was like oh my goodness Because you know the Winchester thing Goes stuff like apparitions And what not She's really gravitating towards that She wants to play one too as well I mean true You don't play the art You gotta have a good shooting machine But art really is starting to really help I mean I don't like Art and theme Yes definitely definitely now we've kind of got it off the subject of it I'm sorry I can talk about anything you can start asking me questions I'm like okay well you know when did you finally think about possibly like buying a pinball machine how much later on in life did that kind of happen well let's just say that probably happened about 3 or 4 years ago okay so that's a newer thing it's a newer thing for me I actually won my first machine. I won a Volley, EM Volley Gottlieb, a tennis machine. I won one of those at a tournament, I guess, about four or five years ago. And it just went from there. Everybody always said, man, you need to own a machine. You need to own a machine. I'm like, I'm so used to playing routed. I'm so used to going to other places and playing their machines. I was like, well, yeah. And tournaments all the time. When did that start, actually? Tournaments? I guess that was before you buying machines. Oh, my goodness. My first tournament was 93. Oh, wow. What IFPA number are you? I'm like 12. Well, the whole thing was I didn't – I don't think this was actually in IFPA, my number. Okay. Yeah. I'm like 35,000, somewhere around there. Okay. But it was a tournament. It was a tournament. I played, I decided to go ahead and I'm glad you're asking because now I can really go. I was living in Ohio at the time. One of my best friends, we lived in Columbus or Pickerington right outside Columbus. Well, they have the Ohio Masters and it was a tournament back and I believe it was 93. That is when I played in it. And it was my first tournament. And I spoke to the distro that was, you know, putting it on. I said, hey, do y'all run any tournaments? Because I'm really starting to, you know, want to get in the tournament. So he goes, oh, yeah, we have the Ohio Masters coming up. I said, OK. And I said, what does that entail? He said, well, we have an amateur division and we have a pro division. I said, OK. I said, well, what division do you think I should play? And I said, this is my very first tournament. He goes, you should play in the amateur division. I said, OK, that's fine. I mean, I thought I was a good player. I said, okay, I'll play amateur. That's fine. And tournaments back in the day, you know, then it was a one machine tournament. You played the same machine from beginning to end. That's actually what I did for my first tournament. This was prior to me doing IFBA or even knowing what it was. But, yeah, I did something similar. And it was crazy because tournaments now are so different. But back then it was one game. They did have like two or three other straggler games that were in the tournament But it was really based on one game And it was one of my favorites, Demolition Man When it came out The flow, Dennis Nordman, the flow on that game was just crazy I really enjoyed the game And the guy says, okay, we're running this Ohio Masters and it's on Demo Man I said, okay So he goes, and I know what one is He goes, I got to play a lot of demos Sorry demo mans but I got to play demo games a lot Because they would put demo games truck stops were huge They would make a killing because you know truckers come in Need something to do to unwind they'd always put these demo games out Right prior to the cell phone Exactly so they put a demolition man there and it was a demo Like certain things on the play field were different colors They uh what was it the 442 the you know the Oldsmobile that they drove the red one It was a different color car in there. Some inserts didn't have like scoring like it has the three, six and 10 million circles where that car is. They weren't there. It was just a color. It was certain things in that machine that just were not in yet. But he goes, you can go there and you can practice and play it. That's OK. Great. So I went there hours on end for like three or four days right before the tournament and played it and played it. And I said, OK, I think I'm ready for this. So I showed up for the tournament I don't know I don't remember how big it was But it might have been 80 people I'm guessing And I think it was about half and half Half amateur I think it was between 60 and 80 I don't want to fudge your numbers too much That part has been so long ago But funny enough That was the first tournament Trent Augustine played in The gentleman that owns Tilt He's a big tournament player too He was there I didn't know who he was I was just starting to get into it I think he was playing more on the professional side But he said this was his first tournament as well Well I went in there They had 24 Demolition man's Out a lot in one spot 24 of them they all lined up Around each other All in these rooms and I think it was at a ballroom At some hotel But we got together And they had giveaways in the set Funny enough I don't know if anybody else Of the older generation, older crowd This was the very first tournament I played in And it was a tournament And this is unheard of now This would never probably happen now I would like for this to happen every once in a while There was no cradling You got DQ'd Wow If you cradle That's crazy And it was head to head So you had the other guy watching. You could cradle for two or three seconds, but if you held it too long, you got DQ'd. Period. I've never heard of that. So it was weird. It was on the fly, and you just played. And that's the way I played back then. I was a flow player. I played and just kept rolling and kept rolling. I never cradled. I never learned that skill at all. It was. It was weird. And that was the very first tournament. You got DQ'd for cradling. You couldn't hold the ball more than three seconds, something like that. It was two to three seconds, something like that. But, I mean, they were they were lenient. I mean, you just had to sit there and watch. But they would say something if you did. But I went through that. It was my first tournament and I didn't lose the game all the way from beginning to end. I didn't know. I mean, I just wanted to play and I just played very well. And I think it's because I did play it for three or four days. Some of those guys had never played it before. But the guy gave me, you know, the wink wink. Hey, it's at this truck stop. You can try it out first. And then, you know, it went from there. And I did catch the bug then But that was the First big tournament I was in And then I took a break I mean I didn't play You know pinball was going down Yeah and there wasn't tournaments Every weekend probably In every state Exactly you know there wasn't a big Tournament scene but I quit For about I'd like to say You know when episode one in Revenge for Mars Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy those, but when that came out, I just quit. I just quit for like 25 years. Yeah, and that's pretty much when it died, too, it sounds like. Yeah, it died around then. I enjoyed, like I say, all the games leading up to those, and I do like Revenge from Mars. I didn't care for Episode 1, played it, though, but about that time I did. I took about a 25-year hiatus, 28 years, something like that. I just got, I mean, I'm back in IFPA. I've only been playing for nine years. It's showing now, I do believe. That's still a long time. It is. It's a long time. That's about when I jumped back into the hobby. It was way before I started playing tournaments. But I remember I purchased my first machine back to the future. And I was like, do they still make these? And I discovered, oh, Stern still makes games. And Ghostbusters had just released. And I was a huge Ghostbusters fan. So I was like, man, I would love to have that. But at the time, I thought it was so much money. And little did I find out that was actually a decent price. Oh, yeah. Definitely to now? Oh, yeah, definitely so. Definitely so. But, yeah, that was the first tournament I played in. And like I say, for about nine years I've been playing IFPA. I enjoy it. I really enjoy tournaments. I enjoy the camaraderie. But then I like the competition. I like the – it is stressful. I do like it. When I first started playing the first two or three years, it was like I was always getting finals, and I'd get real nervous and just start shaking. and be like, oh, man, oh, man. Now I'm just like, I'm just here to play pinball. I don't care. Right. Because I've been playing so long. After a while, you just get that, you know, you start to relax and you start to play. And your whole family plays, too, so that's awesome, you know. Hey, that helps. That helps a lot. As soon as I got the wife on board, that was it. And I know a lot of people don't have that. No. At all. She's more competitive than me. Oh, my goodness. But, you know, I like it. My son plays. My wife plays. And you know it helped I remember I don't know exactly the day But it was I think she's been playing about 4 or 5 years now All of a sudden you know Her daughter's in school And college and what not She has a lot of free time And all of a sudden it's like hey Why don't you join me in a pinball tournament I think you'll like it Oh no no no I think people are going to think that I'm bad It's not like that I said no one's going to say anything I want you to come and I swear you'll enjoy yourself You will enjoy it, I'm not lying, just come along So she came along, she caught the bug, that's all it took was one time And she was like, now I see what you're talking about Oh my goodness, this is so much fun She has been an awesome mother, she took care of her kids Travel, soccer was huge, she had no time for herself But as soon as she started playing, she loves it I mean, it is, it's just one of those things where You get into the hobby And when you start playing, and it's true When you play pinball, are you thinking of anything else? No, I don't think of bills We won't get on the kids thing We won't get on the kids thing, we'll leave that alone But no, you don't think about the bills You don't think about what's going on You think about everything that you're trying to do in that moment. And it is weird. I mean, it's one of those things. I mean, it's unlike anything else. I mean, true, when you're playing like Monopoly or a video game or usually stuff, I mean, you're thinking of other things still. But I think pinball has been the only thing that when I got into, and it's true, some people do say you start getting in, start playing, and you don't think of anything else. And the kids thing, that's what's funny. Man, these younger. Dude, the younger crowd is getting really damn good I know, I mean, Zach McCarthy last weekend At Free Performing NA, Nick Mueller had a great weekend It was awesome to watch him win, he finally got his first stern Pro circuit win, and it was great, I mean, but the younger guys Are just so good, I mean, and Nick I can't say it, Nick's married now and everything, shout out to him and everything And, you know, but when they're younger, you know, you get them. I'll use my son as an example. I mean. Oh, yeah. Tristan's an amazing player. They're sponges. You teach them one thing and they just run with it. And it's like. The rules, man. They memorize all the rules, it seems like. I mean, it's just crazy. I can teach them one thing and it just, he just sprouts out and starts going other directions. Hey, dad, you can do this or you can do that. And I'm like, and he gets, you know, and it is. they don't have anything to worry about, which is awesome. There's nothing wrong with that. Be a kid, enjoy your life. And, you know, you don't, you really, you don't have bills to pay. You don't have to worry about stuff, just pinball. And that's, I think that's one other reason why they excel at it, because they're really in tune to that game and what's going on in that time. Yeah, he understands the games. Like where when I was his age, I was just trying to keep the ball alive. And I think that's when I really found out pinball was a lot more fun. when I was like, oh, there's actual modes and there's multiballs, there's things I'm working towards, where before it was just, this is kind of cool, I'm just hitting the ball. When you're really young and with the way games are now, back then, just with the way it is and electronics. Just multiballs back then. Yeah, there was no rules. You'd have a few rules. I really enjoy the Data East games back then because they would coming with a lot of when you got into the mid 90s and what you start to have mode heavy like you say you got adam's family all your data east's head star trek the next generation star trek next generation you have all these modes and all these things you can do and it just would change the game it wasn't like playing like a grand prix uh volley we'll use that example where you know you hit the end lanes at top and then all you would do is bang targets all day i mean things have changed so much and it is a lot of games are mode heavy rule heavy and i do think the kids that sell it that more because they really gravitated to learning these rules and there so many games too and then they remember all the rules to all these games I can do it I know it it so much to take in Like I say Tristan I can teach him one thing and he just goes crazy you know to watch Zach McCarthy Jason all our ashers you know as they were coming up It is they're all sponges. You teach him one thing and then just go with it. And then they go, well, you know, I can do this better or I can do this better. And they just, you know, it just gets huge. I mean, watching those guys play like Godzilla or something like that, it's like, oh, man, geez. You know, King Kong watched, you know, this past weekend at Free Play Florida, Zach McCarthy. I mean, he just, they took the gate off King Kong. We took the gate off. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. I go there and I set up the machines for Free Play Florida and help them out and get the tilt straight and everything. And that's what the TD said You know what we're going to take the gate off King Kong Because it's a very long player Yeah I've noticed And I have to laugh because we took the gate off I made everything almost as I threw a bone or two I think the pit you had to hit it six times instead of three You had to get eight sets of drops to get multiball It was crazy I mean, I tried to do what I could to make it. And, you know, they just pick it up and just run with it. I mean, my son got 500 million on it. I mean, Zach got 1.6 billion on the thing. I mean, it's just crazy on how they can adapt to and just and go with it. There was a there was a post this week and it was one of the guys in Florida. he put a picture of the King Kong machine in the gate area with the gate on. And it said, I don't know what you got till it's gone. Because he played it and he goes, man, it was just rough. I mean, the gate not being there, it would just roll off and go down. Right. It was crazy. But, yeah, I mean, the kids today, or the younger generation, I won't just say kids. Keith Ellen, too, for being such a competitive pinball player. He makes some long playing games with Jaws and Godzilla and now King Kong. Where you know It's like the exact opposite with Winchester at least from what I'm hearing You know people are like that's Kind of a tough game Coming from a competitive player as well And I like What Keith said in his Interview I like the fact that he did make King Kong Really hard as he could in the beginning Because he doesn't want you to get to everything He doesn't want it to be so easy And I do like all of Elwynn's games Oh I do too I mean, I love them. Iron Maiden on. I mean, Iron Maiden, I thoroughly love. And, you know, Jaws and Godzilla. It doesn't matter if it's a long player to me. Right. It just has to play good. I mean, true, I can sit at home and play and enjoy games like that. And I do like the long players at home. I like to be able to try and finish everything. I mean, there's games I haven't finished still. I think the last thing I did enjoy getting a 21-12 on a rush. I mean, that took forever. But, you know, I try to do certain things as well at home on my machines. And when we were discussing about machines, yeah, Volley was the first machine I'd won. And then I have seven altogether. And I did it. But the whole thing is, once you get one. Oh, you can't have one. You can't stop. You can't stop. You try. You try so hard. Tattoos. I said five machines because that's what fit in one room, and then it was another room that had machines. Then it was three rooms, and now I've built a building. It's crazy. Yeah, and I'm glad you did build the building. I mean, you get your house back. Yeah, yeah, it was nice. I mean, it's just the way it is. I mean, you get one, and then all of a sudden, you know what? I could fit another one. Then after two, you're like, yeah. They take up so much damn room. But, I mean, it's like having one video game. You're going to buy a PlayStation and only own one game? I mean, you want to play more than one game. Oh, exactly, exactly. But I have all newer things. I'm trying to get towards more. I want to get a solid state or two, but I have all new games except the volley. I think those have more last ability in the long run anyway. But, yeah, once your collection gets big enough, it's like I want a couple older games. Yeah, I get it because sterns, I mean, for the most part, take care of themselves. Right. I mean, as long as you maintain it, clean it. I agree. They hold up very well. And they do very well by distros and on locations because they can. You can put them in there, and they pretty much run themselves for the most part. I mean, you do have to clean, you know, fix them. Oh, yeah. There are certain little things with every manufacturer. But, yeah, I agree for the most part. Sterns are the ones that are the workhorses out there. Like I say, when we talk about Spooky, I know they got a lot of moving parts. I mean, they do. Yeah, they got the world under glass. They do. And certain machines like the new Star Wars I like the way it shoots A lot of people I've only played it once so I can't speak on it too heavily The only thing I have with that Is the toys on it Yeah they were a little lazy on the toys Just get rid of the helmets And if they would have done anything besides the damn helmet The helmets are so big one's as big as the Millennium Falcon that's sitting in the back of the machine. I mean, it just doesn't look right to me. I swear the Stormtrooper's just the shooter rod. Yeah. From the last game. And you have the Sarlacc pit with Jabba at the top. It's like... Yeah. They could have done more with the... I mean, if they would have just went... They could have kept the same layout, and if it looked prettier, I honestly think it would have better reviews. I mean, I get the whole Death Star shot, but I think they've got that figured out by now. Yeah. I get it with certain games The whole thing is With games nowadays You think about it I think about several things Say I have a rush or something at home Right Just say you and me We got a new game at home We're beta testers Really Because we get the game at home We put the games on it And then it doesn't become worth as much In the long run Because you know a lot of people go by home use only And how many games you play Oh man that drives me nuts It drives me nuts too because guess what I can be a home use only and I have 100 games on mine You can be 100 games on yours I can death save On that 100 games And tear the pinball machine to pieces When you don't Yeah that's what I don't understand There's people that play you know 45 minutes An hour long game every once in a while And there's other people that their average game time Is 3 minutes yeah i mean it should be hours played not not games played i agree i agree but yeah i mean i when people get in that and they get into that market and then just cleaning and taking care of it i mean because you know when they nitpick though that's the thing it's home use only and it's like you know i got a hundred games on mine but yeah you could be death saving the whole time and rattling death and tilting it to death and no one would know oh my last ghostbusters i had had over 20 000 plays and it looked as good as some people's that had 500 exactly i mean it's just crazy but yeah i i still i really enjoy playing i did like i said i played it free play for us past weekend i played at the sanctum i enjoy playing a lot of competitive pinball we have a lot more pinball than we used to i mean a lot after covid i mean yeah it really exploded during covid or at least the collectors and then the tournaments and everything else i thought it was gonna blow up to an extent it's like okay i gotta get out of the house i gotta go play i gotta go play but then all of a sudden an area has we'll use tampa and florida they run 20 tournaments a month right 10 to 20 i would say and all the i mean this is crazy it's hard to keep up with i think the pinball arcade whole thing is probably doubled since covid the amount of locations out there i mean everyone that you've seen has basically started in the last five six years it seems like it's bounced back uh very well i mean you didn't know what you were going to get when everybody was starting to get out of the house and everything was like okay you know is it going to bounce back and it's bounced back big time i mean and so many manufacturers now it's just like it's great there's way more uh pinball machines being made now than there was back in the day hell yeah maybe williams and you know stern all and we're cranking them out but now there's what 11 12 pinball manufacturers out there yeah so i'm gonna ask you because you got to play beetle i haven't played beetle oh man yeah it's it's a blast i just can't wait to get it uh the the video i mean there's streams and stuff out there and i just don't think any of it really does it justice as far as the light show uh like seeing some of the streams i'm like man y'all aren't doing the light show justice it looks so much better in person because everything just kind of looks like over overly saturated in the videos but i think once everyone plays it they're really gonna really gonna like it the shots are fun i felt it had plenty of flow i've heard some people saying it didn't have any flow to it i felt it did um and like i love that the sandworm is a shot through his mouth, but also below him there's targets down there. It's fun. People are going to enjoy it. Just the music and the theming and it all comes together as one really good package. I like it because a lot of certain designers and companies are utilizing the whole play field, not just a little bit. Not just a little bit of real estate here and there. They utilize the whole thing. I thought Evil Dead when I was about to play i was like i'm mad i got rid of that game i know you are we we've had this discussion i mean and i get why i mean because it was a lot going on it was a lot going on and it was like the first time that i knew spooky had like built something and it was holding up but i was still kind of worried in the long run but now after hearing from all the operators and everything it sounds like it's it's fine i mean there might be a couple little things here and there but nothing i couldn't fix all those servos yeah all the service one thing i liked when i was talking to luke this time it seems like they're making it easier to get those servos out like they're going to be plug and play and just easy to remove and like all the mechanisms and stuff like the sandworm or anything you're now going to be able to remove that without even lifting the playfield you're going to be able to remove a few screws and pull it off so they're thinking about the design when they're putting these together as far as maintenance and he's like i don't want y'all to have to remove 20 layers of plastic to get one thing. I want everything to be somewhat easy, accessible to get to for maintenance and stuff. So that kind of made me feel a little bit better about it. I totally agree. And Evil Dead was just just like with Texas. I like the theme. Right. Wife loves the theme. You know, when it was coming out, I was like, okay, how is this going to shoot? And I played one at the Sanctum, and I played it beforehand, But those things, you have to tweak them and tweak them and tweak them. But once you get that nice dialed in, they shoot very well. Satisfying all the shots on them. Very, very good. Backhandable certain shots. I mean, do you really, do they consider themselves a boutique game still? I don't know. I haven't really ever asked them that question. I still think they're, you know, they're only putting one game out a year. So you can just take it how you want as far as that goes. and there's only a thousand games roughly i mean they do have a few show games but um yeah i mean and also the game didn't uh you know people are saying it doesn't have any call outs uh the movie does work well with that game i don't know how it does but it does and there actually are some call outs so i don't know why everyone keeps saying that some of it's more the spooky speak like it's talking about you all that beetlejuice stuff is all recorded oh yeah you know so none of that's from the movie and i think some of that would be incorporated incorporated into the game eventually so there might be eventually some direction of you know shoot this or shoot that but we'll see but i i had no problem figuring out what i was supposed to be doing by just the lights and you know everything yeah sorry i'm trying to pick your brain too oh no i'm just i'm looking forward to playing it i just i want it now oh i'm sure i'm sure um like i said evil dead was just one of those games and that like i say scooby was a good license but i think that was really their big turning point don't get me wrong love rick and morty love the game i've always wanted to own a rick and morty eventually left rant was just a pain um when it first came yeah definitely but like i say all their games were tweak games you really had to tweak them and fine-tune them but once you fine-tune them they played great they shot great i i've liked everything they've done and i like how they're limited i keep hearing a bunch of chatter online of people just complaining that they're not making enough games and i mean the same people are complaining to stern that they're making too many games yes me personally keep it limited because when the next one rolls around i can actually sell my game to afford the next one versus like losing four or five thousand dollars le's um that's it yeah it's it's basically the whole stern le thing during covid you couldn't get one of those either i mean yeah and now you know just like everybody says you get an le three or four thousand dollars later i mean except during covid that was like when you could buy it and you know play it for six months and get your money back and get your money back yeah it's like a car just about i mean you know you get it the theming in the world under glass is helping and you know evil dead was not a sellout like people had to get their hands on it and play it and then also hear that it was holding up before it ever sold out oh yeah and then it's holding it's holding big time i mean that's that's what i like what spooky's doing i mean yeah true you get upset because you can't get a game everyone said get on the list i got on the list like a year ago and i had no problem getting the game kerry hardy yeah he was saying the same thing get on the list and And, you know, I've got people asking me the day of the release, like, what's the phone number to Spooky? I'm like, dude, it goes on sale in like one minute. And you're trying to find the phone number. You didn't want one that bad. You didn't want one that bad. Because if it was me, I'd have two laptops out. I'd have a phone. I'd have my friend's phone. But, I mean, I understand why people waited, too. I mean, a lot of people are just like what Cary Hardy says. They want to play it. They want to play it first before they buy it. And, you know, in this instance, you knew it was going to be a hit. I mean. But all these Stern LEs you didn't get to play before you got it, you know, that were selling out instantly. It was just at the time that was the hot ticket item where now, you know, people are feeling that those are a little. I don't know, slacking in like the toy department for what you're paying and what you're getting. They make phenomenal games. I love Stern games. I guess Spooky and Barrels are making the pretty games that people like as well. Have you played Dune? No, I haven't. Yeah. I like Labyrinth and Dune. Like I say, they're pretty. Pretty games. But just like I said with the Stern and the LEs, you do. Do you want a Premium or an LE? Premium has the same thing LE has in it for the most part. Maybe you don't get a certain type of armor. Maybe you don't get, you know, little knick-knack stuff that you can add yourself later on. just get a premium i will say i do kind of like how spooky and stuff is just doing the one model thing because it just forces me just to buy like the one that has everything in it agree instead of me like i could save 2500 bucks on this pro versus this stern premium you know and barrels is doing the same thing i like just the one model and then there's some upgraded items if you want it to you know have the butter cabinet anti-reflection glass and all that that's what i was about to say here pretty much in the topper you don't have to buy the expensive s topper but it comes with a free one that looks pretty damn good yeah exactly i mean i they start when they did the topper for scooby-doo like i say and then they went to the bookcase one i was like okay they are going to start hitting a part with these toppers i mean yeah their new topper person's like freaking awesome but i think they work in the movie business or something doing like some kind of molding or something overseas too correct i do believe the gentleman the what now is the gentleman from overseas that doing the toppers I not sure I just know they made Mask or something for the movie business So they're familiar with making props and stuff. But it is the same person for Evil Dead and Beetlejuice and the next game. And they weren't lying. They were like, you're really going to love the Beetlejuice topper. I was like, yeah. But they keep telling me the whole time I'm there, They're like, just wait until you see the next game. I'm like, oh, God, what the hell are you going to do now? I was going to say that, that, you know, everybody's been saying, just wait until the next game. And it was the same with Evil Dead. Just wait until the next game. I mean, even like, I really like how Beetlejuice plays, and they're like, the next one's even better. I'm like, god dang. As long as they keep getting the good licensing. I mean, you know, although I do like, you know, a non-licensed game, I did like Dialed In. I mean, I'll throw JJP a phone. I mean, I like their games. Right. But, you know, when Dialed In came out, I do like a non-themed game every once in a while. I mean, that's all we had back in the day. Oh, yeah. It doesn't bother me as long as it's not, like, something I would dislike for some reason. Like, I can't think of a theme, but, you know, as long as it kind of resonates with me a little bit. I mean, you had your Whirlwinds and Earthshakers. Oh, that's fine. Yeah. Strange Science. I played Heavy Metal Meltdown this past. I mean, just certain games like that. I mean, no license. We're just going to make the game. Right. Yeah, I wish we'd get a few of those. I guess we did get some from American and stuff. But I think a lot of people. Well, Winchester's borderline. Yeah. But, yeah, we'll have to see what other manufacturers do as far as that in the future. Yeah, I want to play Big Trouble in Lower China. Oh, man, that looks freaking. The homebrew scene is getting crazy, too. And I'm like, I really want to build one, but my whole problem is, is I'm constantly buying whatever the hell is coming out from all these manufacturers. So I never get like, like a homebrew is going to cost like a lot of money if you want to do it right. I mean, as much as a steering LE. Yeah. And I'd been waiting for, I mean, everybody kept saying, what do you want to have made? What do you want to have made? Big trouble, little China. I mean, of course, it's a niche game. it's you know if you're from that generation you know the movie see my problem is i want to do something that won't be made and i'm kind of worried about all these manufacturers about to make a lot of my dream themes like back to the future dutch is supposedly making so it's like i probably don't want to make that someone else is making a homebrew one right now anyway but uh et's one i've wanted to make for because i highly doubt anyone picks that up maybe they will But what was another one I wanted to do Lost Boys was one I thought would be cool That would be a good one too But like I say From when we're The generational type deal You have your Lost Boys Gremlins Gremlins would be awesome I think someone would do that eventually Goonies, same thing Someone would eventually do that Although they have the Goonies homebrew I've seen it, it looks nice Hellraiser, I saw that that day took a devil's dare and turned it into a hellraiser i like that one i think some of the old themes that were done by williams and stuff could be redone like spooky if they did terminator 2 nowadays like i think that would be an awesome thing to bring back and you know have a full featured game with all these toys and stuff um but yeah with the uh with the beetlejuice so just like you said with just the video call outs and everything the movie just fits the machine i can't wait to see where that game goes too because i mean the code was very early but also it didn't have any problems the game i mean they played that game from like i don't know two o'clock to like two o'clock that's good that's real good it didn't crash at all or anything like uh i wasn't there the whole time but most of the time i was there the only thing i noticed one stuck ball which is like okay no big deal this is also the prototype game like they'll probably address that yeah um and they were really excited because no one had like really beat on this game it was just like them playing it in an office so they you know i think they enjoyed like letting see a big crowd play the game prior to a show because usually that's where they're testing this out and saying i hope it holds up yeah so you all were pretty much the testers for the game it was like a like having it at a show for a day really um because it's not like anybody took a break and just stared at the game oh no there was always someone playing it when i saw it i was like i'd be there playing it the whole time too if i could i played it more the second day the first day i only played it i think two games on it and it was just like i'm gonna let i'm gonna be here two days i'll come back and play it some more and some people like just stare at it's like it's like something like that is like art really and you're just looking at going okay you know if you've ever gone to places like they'll have immaculate machines you just look at them it's like oh wow okay you know a lot of i think that's how a lot of collectors are too i mean you know i'll see you know le for sale and they're like it's only got 54 plays and i'm like that game came out like seven years ago yeah i only have one le in my my collection i have a rush le oh i'd love to have a rush le and i want to have a rush again i i regret selling that game i had the pro though but i'd like to have a premium layout yeah i like that's one of my favorites i got that's probably my favorite john board game come to think of it that and uh he did tron too right i think he did tron i think so yeah you know probably my two favorites too but of course you know he took a lot you know the side ramp the storm ramp the same thing on rush same exact ramp yep i do like i mean metallica John Board Games just kicked my ass. That's why I usually don't buy all these damn Keith Elwin games because they're easier. I like that they did bring them on and I like that they did because he did most of his games, like I say, he has the whole play field. There's something everywhere. There's something to hit, something to do. I don't care for the games that use half a play field and the ball can go anywhere. There's only one game But I do enjoy the game I'm not going to say I don't Led Zeppelin You've told me plenty of times You enjoy playing it It's a shooters game But half the playfield there's nothing there But that gives you more barren area to mess up I guess you've got to give and you take I like all the playfield being used That's why I don't gravitate Towards these P3 games mainly Nothing against Gary the owner or whatever but it's just all of it's in the back when you have a huge tv screen you can't put anything but in the back in the back or you know or way down on the sides of the play field or something where i think it really just limits your you know what you can put in a game and we have these blocks in the middle that grab the ball yeah i mean you can only do so much don't get me right the innovation is great i liked it when it came oh yeah it's cool i mean i like poor hole i like heist when it came out certain of their games like like i think i might have played princess bride once what was that one game that was yeah i never played that one they considered it the tna second oh uh final resistance yeah yeah i don't yeah i did play that at texas one time um but i'm usually always playing the spooky games in the or Chicago Gaming Games or whatever they got new coming out. There's so much stuff. Like I say, these companies are just pushing these games out. Like I say, it's a great thing for us because we get to play all of them. Barrels of Fun has to get going. It's exciting. It is. No one should be mad about any manufacturer ever making a pinball machine. I just love having all this variety to pick from instead of just one game a year from, say, Stern or something like that. You do, yeah. And you don't have to buy all these games. You don't. It's like, hey, I have a friend of mine that's going to buy this game. I'm going to get this one instead and just go back and forth certain places because games I like now, like I say, you don't see a Rush LE on location. There's certain games you just don't see on location and I would rather have those myself because then I'm not searching for them. You never hardly see LEs location. I mean, there's certain areas, Pinball Palace here, they have a bunch of LEs and they let you play them all. Right. I mean, you don't get a lot of that at a lot of places. No, there's a few places, but yeah, I agree. They're definitely not everywhere. No, definitely not. I mean, you might see an LE or two, but yeah. I do like the way things are going with these companies. Like I say, Spooky is just... Oh, I'm excited for next year. I think it's going to be a fun year for pinball. It just keeps turning up and gets bigger and bigger every year. Like I say, this Beetlejuice thing just, you know. I guess they've got to get on the barrels list for the next game too because I feel like it's getting to the point where they're going to come out with something that I've got to have. Because really the Winchester Mystery House, I was kind of thinking like, I might grab this game, but the next damn day it sold out. And I was like, whoa, I did not know this game was going to go that way. Yeah, and I like Labyrinth. I mean, the very first game out of the box was nice. And that's a much bigger theme, or at least I would think. So I was like, that game didn't sell out. I got plenty of time, and it sold out instantly. I think it was the spooky vibe. Everyone wants this haunted house, spookier vibe lately, it seems like. Even themes that Stern's done, Stranger Things, Monsters, and stuff, I think the theme at least does appeal to people. I know, and I want to play Predator. I haven't played that yet. Oh, I heard your buddy in Jacksonville's got one. Who? Oh, I know someone's supposed to be getting one. I don't know if they have it yet or not. A private collector. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know if he has it yet, but someone's supposed to be getting it. Oh, he's got it. Oh, he does? Yeah. You're kidding me. I was just there just not to love it. He sent me pictures. Yeah, it was a couple days ago. He's like, look what I got. So you'll have to go try that out. I will. I'll definitely have to try that. I mean, I like where they're going with their games. I mean, people, you know, bag on like Queen and App. Dude, I played Abba at that get-together. It's a long player, though. I played the shit out of that game, and I'm not the best player in the world. Now, I want to hear it on this podcast. Did you enjoy it? At first, no, I hated it. But then I went back and I played it again, and I was like, all right, I kind of like it. I'm not going to lie. I don't think it had a tilt bob in it I think that's why I had the longest play I was sitting there shaking it back into play I like what they did with it I really do My friend In Ovito has one And I was so excited I said I want to go play this And I said it's going to be okay I'm going to go there It's going to have a mech or something That really wows me just for a second It's going to be super rare Because I don't think they sold well I think Predator would be the same way Watch those games be really desirable like five, ten years down the road because they didn't make any of them. But when I got into it, and that's the only thing I played for three hours. I sat there at his house and played it over and over, and I couldn't stop. The music, I liked the helicopter mech. Oh, it was pretty cool. I mean, it's still, you know. They should have put it in Predator, but. They should have. But that helicopter mech that you shot the ball into and it held the ball. and then you shot the other one and it went to the other side like two people driving it and then flips upside down i mean some of that met i really thoroughly enjoyed there was things on there i love the music and you know just like rush when rush came out i was a rush fan but until you start hearing all those songs again you're like wow okay i'm really enjoying this led zeppelin was another one i mean do i like led zeppelin music yeah did i really care for the band no but i liked some of their teams, but when you play it, it just re-sparks and you start really enjoying the game. I'm wondering when the next music pin's going to come out. Yeah, I feel like Stern was doing one every single year and now it's... It's backed off. Yeah, it's one every... Foo Fighters was the last... Was it? The submetallic remaster, but that's a remaster. I'm not counting the remaster, but like new music pin? Yeah. Foo Fighters. That's been, what, two, three years now and people make fun calling them dad pins i mean dads are the ones buying the game you're right that's true i mean i would like to see you know a music pin here and there i mean what what are they talking about they'll do it again for sure someone's talking about a vaulted oh yeah acdc okay it's not just but it's time for a new one yeah now if they did it like an acdc remaster with video i mean you know if that's what they'll do if they make it again right this would be the second time because they did vault at once correct i think so or yeah they did like a different edition or something right yeah yeah i mean i told them to do star trek again uh when i was there recently and they kind of laughed i was like i don't care if you've done it twice do it again yeah i love that game the one i would like to see is kiss oh yeah i i could see them redoing kiss eventually but you know i don't know what they could do with licensing yeah i don't know if it's harder to do now that uh he uh you know they recently had a member pass away yeah that's true i mean let's let's talk about one other thing if you'd like yeah we got a couple more minutes and then we'll have to jump on to the tournament how about walking dead walking dead um what's your take on it i saw it in person at the factory and i will say it looks a lot better in person I have not played it. They way oversaturated that game in the videos. And then you see it in person, and you're like, wait, this looks actually pretty good. Okay. I can believe that because you're right. Video usually does nothing really justice or pictures. But, yeah, the oranges and everything, it was like, I don't know. But I can't wait to see it in person. Yeah, I want to play it. I don't think the Pinball Palace got it, so I won't get to play it there. but I'm sure it'll be at some shows coming up. It was at Freeplay Florida. I looked at it for a split second, but I didn't, you know, concentrate to stare at it because it was a premium or the pro or Ellie. They had an Ellie. Oh, okay. And a premium. I think they have. I think the Ellie looks a lot better in person. That was just my personal take on it. And the play field art looks a lot better. Oh yeah. I like, and I like the way the inserts, the way all the, you know, the colors, the RGBs work a lot better on that. I mean, you know, of course, you know, the original is all white right all white i mean i did like the color of the original and it's all red grays browns you know the dark you know gritty colors but yeah when i i looked at the back glass of the new one i was liking them i liking them on both but yeah i thought the colors when you watch video and stuff like i said i just went stared at it real quick and took off because i didn't have time but yeah pictures and video usually don't do a pin justice every time they come out it's like yeah you gotta go play it and see it in person definitely well anyway um it was fun having you on the show man and we'll definitely do this again um we gotta play in the pinball tournament or we would do this for three hours i know how can you just keep talking about pinball if you ask me any questions and be more than happy you know i don't mind i like to be able to answer questions and if you ever want to know anything i'm here well until next time shannon um i'll See you later Thank you so much Thank you for having me Alright, later Come and we want more Stop banana Billy money Come Hey, like come And we want more Come, Mr. Tallyman Tally me banana Hey, like come And we want more Come, Mr. Tallyman Tally me banana Hey, like come And we want more It's six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch Daylight come and we one go home Six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch Daylight come and we one go home Daylight come and we one go home you