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We Are Pinball #11 "Avatar Factory tour visit! X-men reviews!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 3m·analyzed·Sep 20, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.038

TL;DR

Avatar factory hands-on review: innovative design, eclipse theme integration, UV playfield, pricing debate.

Summary

Episode 11 of We Are Pinball features hosts Don and Genghis discussing a factory visit to Jersey Jack Pinball where they played Avatar in its prototype stage. They extensively cover the game's innovative design including its eclipse mechanic, three-tier underplayfield system, integrated lighting (hot rails, holographic topper), and theme integration. They also briefly discuss an X-Men visit to Stern Pinball. Key topics include game design philosophy, pricing ($12,000–$15,000 CE), market value retention of JJP collector's editions, and the decision to order Avatar CE based on UV playfield technology.

Key Claims

  • Avatar CE playfield uses UV inks instead of glitter to align with Na'vi lore (no metallics/glitter); created with PhD chemist consultation

    high confidence · Direct observation at JJP factory; speaker discusses chemist collaboration and clear coat compatibility

  • Avatar uses three-tier underplayfield system: upper playfield, crab battle mini-playfield with smaller ball, and pop-bumper area with stand-up targets

    high confidence · Detailed hands-on gameplay description of ball routing and mechanics

  • Avatar CE playfield uses Bader manufacturing; LE playfields use Merco

    high confidence · Speaker states JJP consulted Merco but switched to Bader for CE due to UV ink production issues

  • Avatar features eclipse mechanism that subtly shifts lighting and music as eclipse progresses during gameplay

    high confidence · Speaker describes eclipse as automatic based on switch hits, not sudden visual shift like Stranger Things

  • Avatar CE topper uses Pepper's Ghost effect with full-width LCD screen on back box, displaying real-time alerts/tilt warnings

    high confidence · Detailed comparison to Mandalorian topper; speaker describes 45-degree plate glass holographic effect

  • JJP Jersey Jack's highest-end games (Elton John CE, Toy Story 4 CE, Guns N' Roses CE) hold secondary market value better than lower tiers

    medium confidence · Speaker references market data: Elton John CE ~$13,500 one year post-release; GNR CE holding value vs LE at $6-7k

  • Eric Menier has been promoted to oversight role ('George Gomez position') at JJP directing production/entertainment across all designers

    medium confidence · Observed in JJP's Avatar reveal video; speaker speculates on exact title but notes oversight/director function

  • Mark Seiden is the designer of Avatar; first-time lead playfield designer with background in illustration/character art

    high confidence · Speaker confirms Seiden as designer and notes he required support from Eric Menier on production/manufacturability

Notable Quotes

  • “The whole thing just really, really works... bringing that in the game... It works, and it's not like a switch. You know, when you go to the upside down on Stranger Things, it's like flash, flash, flash, here you are, right? This is a slow... It's done by an eclipse mechanism.”

    Don (host) @ ~22:00 — Core design philosophy of Avatar's eclipse mechanic; contrasts with jarring theme transitions in other games

  • “They talked us through this process of how they had to talk to a PhD chemist and come up with UV inks that would work with the clear coat, that would work with the play fields.”

    Don (host) @ ~41:00 — Reveals JJP's technical approach to theme-accurate playfield design; demonstrates engineering depth for Avatar CE

  • “Every pinball company needs a guy like George Gomez. And this was – I started smiling and I'm like – and it's so cool with Eric Minier. I mean if he has this overhead look on all the designers, all the games, because Eric – I think he has been a designer for like five, six years or so. But all his games, theme integration, he's just number one.”

    Genghis (host) @ ~10:30 — Endorsement of Eric Menier's promotion; establishes him as JJP's creative oversight figure

  • “I want to play with the blue people in my house, man... Probably November when they get made.”

    Don (host) @ ~50:30 — Confirms intention to purchase Avatar CE; hints at November availability

  • “The way they integrated it was fun. And then when you do beat the crab, that's when the hot rails start flashing red really quickly... So this didn't feel like, okay, it's a damaging thing or damaging the flow of the game. It feels like the flow of the game just kind of went down there for a little bit, and now it's back up again.”

    Don (host) @ ~30:00 — Positive assessment of underplayfield integration; addresses common concern about mini-playfields disrupting gameplay

  • “Hot rails are in effect... I think this is the best integration of them that I've seen so far... it wasn't just, look, we can do RGB it's like look we can create atmosphere with these... it wasn't jarring they didn't pop out like they do on the music pins”

Entities

Don GarrisonpersonGenghispersonKen CromwellpersonZach SharppersonScott LarsonpersonEric MenierpersonMark SeidenpersonJersey Jack Pinball (JJP)companyStern Pinball

Signals

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive community reception for Avatar; hosts confirm game is 'pretty popular' and 'people want this game in today's market'

    medium · Don states 'As I have heard, this is pretty popular'; expresses confidence in game's market success

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Avatar positioned as premium experience requiring CE tier for full visual/thematic package; standard LE tier lacks UV depth effect and premium aesthetics; price point ($12-15k) justified by technical differentiation

    high · Don's explicit statement 'If I'm going to get this one, I've got to find a way to get the good one'; comparison of playfield features by tier

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Initial concern about multi-tier underplayfield system potentially disrupting gameplay flow; hands-on testing resolved concern—crab mini-playfield integrates smoothly and pop-bumper area feels natural

    high · Genghis expresses skepticism about underplayfields based on prior games (Munsters, Monsters, older Gottlieb titles); Don confirms positive integration after playtest

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Avatar uses subtle theme integration through eclipse mechanic (automatic, slow lighting/music shift) rather than jarring transitions; UV ink playfield chosen over glitter to align with Na'vi lore authenticity

    high · Don's detailed comparison to Stranger Things; discussion of PhD chemist consultation; explicit design constraint: 'Navi don't use metallics'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball's CE editions (Elton John, Guns N' Roses, Toy Story 4) holding secondary market value significantly better than LE variants; Elton John CE near MSRP one year post-release ($13.5k vs $15k MSRP)

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.191

0:00
Fanjig, it's like our stuff is the best when we don't have any plan. We just go get to it. And I think we're ready. Are you ready? I'm going to start recording. Let's go, baby. All right. Hey, Pac, hit it up.
0:13
Ain't nothing but a gangster party. Aw, shit. It's ready. You ready? Aw, shit. It's hitting. Wobb is back with a brand new mission, a brand new mentation in this land of an avatar nation. We got episode 11, I think we are at now, homeboy. Can you believe it? Break out the shit, man. It's number 11, and it's great. We cannot wait to start this shit. Where's that from? Patreon is not ready yet, but it's coming. But forget that. It's coming. I got some deals that are in the works, but that's not what this episode is about. Go ahead, man. Go ahead. I cut you off. I'm sorry. Apologies.
0:51
This episode, number 11, WAP number 11. Guys, guys, guys, you're hitting us up. More, more episodes. We want some more. Donnie, people want two episodes in a week. We need to do this more often, my dear friend. We just didn't reach it. But you visited JJP. You visited Stern Pinball. Let's talk about that, okay? So you got an invite from?
1:18
Ken Cromwell and Mr. Zach Sharp. Yeah, that's a deal I've been working for a while, right? I was at the Southern Fry Gaming Expo, man. go to these expos, talk to the people, stuff starts to happen, man. And I'm like, hey, if you guys have a project coming out, man, I'm right up the road, basically. I'll come by. Let me play it. I want to play the new stuff. And then they reached out. So how did it happen? How did it happen? Did Jersey Jack invite you, pay for the plane and hotel and everything, and then Stern just hijacked you for free? How was it? So for me personally, I was talking to Zach Sharp back during the X-Men release leading up to that. And, you know, I'm like, hey, I'm going to be in town on the 4th. You guys are releasing a game. Can I swing by for 10 minutes or something? You know, just trying to shoot my shot. And he's like, look, it's so busy that day. We've got construction going on. We just can't accommodate it, but, like, we'll keep you in the loop. And then the following week, he's like, hey, man, if you're going to be here, just, you know, hit me up. And that's honestly how it happened. And I got to slide. I got to slide right in there and play me some X-Men. And then at the same time, Ken had sent out the email from Jersey Jack to everybody that said, guys, we're inviting you on down. We'll cover some of your expenses if you'd like. Now, me, I'm local. I just drove on down. No big deal. But, you know, yeah, super gracious. So we had like a full day planned at JJP, and I was able to slide into Stern a day early. So it was good. It was a good couple of days, man. So was it only you that visited Stern, or was there more? So, because I'm a gracious soul, and I was picking up my homie Scott Larson from the Loser Kid podcast at the airport, and we had some time to kill, I brought Scott on with me. Oh, okay. So, first of all, we hook up the homies on the show. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so cool, man. So cool. Let's start. I mean, we talked a bit about X-Men. So, this show, let's start with J.J.P. Avatar. So, you had the hands-on experience. My fingers were all inside of that game. And before you did this, on our last show together with Enzo, you guys, Enzo ordered the limited edition of X-Men. You ordered the limited edition. You ordered two premiums also. And you were like, man, my pinball money pocket is empty now. I don't have more means for buying the avatar. And you visited JJP. And you have this thing on your shoulders that when you visit and try a new game, you end up buying it. Don't answer. I don't know if you have bought it or not. It's a very expensive title, man.

  • Avatar ship date expected November based on factory schedule

    medium confidence · Speaker mentions 'when they get made November' in casual conversation; not official timeline confirmation

  • JJP's Avatar 18-minute reveal video is 'one of the best in pinball,' better than Guns N' Roses release video

    high confidence · Speaker's direct assessment after watching; notes professional production quality and energy from team

    • Don (host) @ ~15:00 — Assesses hot rail lighting as thematic enhancement rather than visual distraction; compares favorably to music-themed games

  • “If I'm going to get this game with everything that Jersey Jack is putting into their games now, the rad cows, the cool toppers, the glitter and everything, like I want the good one, you know, but the good one's $15,000.”

    Don (host) @ ~37:00 — Pricing tension for premium JJP collector's editions; indicates CE tier as minimum viable purchase for full experience

  • “I called up my distro man... I went over to the crypt and the crypt keeper he came he did me a solid. He came up with the extra rest of the cash.”

    Don (host) @ ~58:00 — Shows creative financing for $15k pinball purchase; references selling Big Lebowski to fund Avatar CE

  • “Every time we get new blood, new designers, I'm excited... This guy's new, but he's definitely not alone, you know, is the thing. You know, Eric's there, and this guy comes up with an idea. You know, Eric's like, okay, but in production, we're going to have to design this thing in a way that if there's a problem, the end user can unscrew a couple of bolts and get access to it.”

    Genghis (host) @ ~26:00 — Frames Eric Menier's role as production mentor to junior designers; emphasizes operator/end-user serviceability philosophy

  • “The oranges are deeper in the play field The blues are more on top Just like a 3D movie would”

    Don (host) @ ~43:00 — Describes 3D effect of multi-color UV inks on Avatar CE playfield; technical achievement in theme realization

    • company
    Avatargame
    Elton Johngame
    X-Mengame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Toy Story 4game
    Big Lebowskigame
    Zelda (Legend of Zelda)game
    Crypt Keepergame
    Mercocompany
    Badercompany
    We Are Pinball (WAP)organization
    Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization

    high · Speaker cites specific secondary market data for multiple games; contrasts LE depreciation ($6-7k) with CE stability

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Eric Menier promoted to oversight/director role at JJP (equivalent to George Gomez position at Stern); oversees all designers, production, and licensing coordination

    medium · Observed in Avatar reveal video; hosts infer promotion from title/role in video; no official JJP announcement quoted

  • $

    market_signal: Avatar CE pricing at $15,000 requires creative financing strategies; hosts acknowledge secondary market depreciation risk but frame Avatar as exception due to UV playfield/topper uniqueness

    high · Don discusses using pin equity to fund purchase; compares to Elton John CE holding $13.5k value one year post-release; contrasts with games depreciating $3-5k immediately

  • ?

    announcement: Avatar pinball officially confirmed by Jersey Jack Pinball with hands-on factory demonstrations; CE topper features Pepper's Ghost holographic effect with full-width LCD screen; estimated November ship date

    high · Don's direct playtest at JJP factory; detailed mechanical descriptions; video reveal with full team commentary

  • ?

    product_strategy: Avatar CE playfield uses Bader manufacturing and multi-color UV inks creating 3D effect; LE uses Merco with single-color UV; both versions feature eclipse mechanic and underplayfield system

    high · Don's detailed description of CE playfield viewing at factory; comparison of manufacturing partners and ink specifications

  • ?

    product_strategy: Don's homebrew Zelda pinball project awaiting wiring installation; represents ongoing personal collection development parallel to commercial releases

    medium · Visible in background; mentioned as 'ready for wires and ready to start flipping here soon'; no public sharing yet

  • ?

    product_concern: Avatar's 18-minute reveal video noted as exceptionally high production quality ('one of the best in pinball,' better than Guns N' Roses release); reflects team passion and professional execution

    medium · Don's subjective assessment after viewing video; notes professional cinematography and team enthusiasm

  • ?

    technology_signal: JJP implementing UV ink playfield technology with multi-color 3D effect (oranges/reds deeper, blues elevated); requires specialized manufacturing partnership (switched from Merco to Bader for CE)

    high · Detailed technical description of UV ink development; speaker notes 3D visual effect; manufacturing partnership change cited

    • 3:57
    First time you tried this, I know you don't care for the theme. But how was it? Because, oh, J.J.P. Light Show. Tell me about it. Oh, man. Look, so, I mean, look at Elton John, right? That's their new standard of where they're at. Rad cows on the side, on the basket. You know, sparkly light shows, tons of glitter Like, they're known for that And this is just a continuance of what that is So I walk into the room, and you know, there's the game Now, we've seen the trailer reveal, the teaser trailer So, like, I'd seen kind of what the game was going to look like But in person, man, come on, dude It's awesome, man, the whole thing's glowing Hot rails are in effect I think this is the best integration of them that I've seen so far You know, where it's not just, look, we can do RGB it's like look we can create atmosphere with these you know so in track mode of course it's going to do the rgb you know get over here and put coins in me um but but during gameplay like they didn't they it wasn't jarring they didn't pop out like they do on the music pins where it's like you know flash flash it's time for lights you know it was really complimenting uh everything so uh and then you got the the awesome topper on the ce man um it's like uh mandalorian but so much more so much more man you know the hologram so you played the ce ce yeah so the ce play fields those are not ready yet so it was an le play field but in the ce cabinet but everything else was was ce yeah did it have the um light behind the back box and under the cabinet on the ce yes what was that on there absolutely was there yeah yeah that that usually when they do that it gives an amazing effect on the floor when you play the game. So that's so cool. So you saw this topper. Is it Mandalorian cool? How good is it? So I actually saw the Mandalorian topper again after I played the Avatar CE, and it just, I mean, these are all toys, but, man, it makes it look like a toy. All right. So, you know, it's the same effect, the Pepper's Ghost effect, where, you know, there's an LCD screen that's laying down on the top of the back box facing up. This one spans the entire back box, so it's a full-size screen. And then it's 45-degree plate glass, so there's a holographic effect. It's just perfect. From the perspective of the player, it looks awesome. But it's got real-time information up there, and when there's a tilt warning or something, it comes and flashes up there. When there's alerts, it goes to almost like a dot matrix display from a spaceship computer or something up there, and then it goes back to the regular uh screen it's just incredible i only watched the 18 minute um trailer video that video is maybe the best in pinball i mean it's better than guns and roses release video it's so professionally done i i was just what's going on here it was so good i heard a rumor that james cameron himself directed that well no no that's a rumor that i just made up but i'm putting it out there no yeah it was great and you know the the elton one was high energy i get what they were going for it was kind of goofy with people floating off into space but yeah dude avatar one i want to watch the avatar the 18 minute video in imax now it's so cool it's what it was really well done all the people they interviewed that there were just so much what's it called there was so much energy in the room there was so much passion and love from everybody from Jack, from Ken Crumble, all of them. And I think one of the coolest things I saw there on that video was Eric Menier.
    7:34
    His title, I don't remember what it was, but it felt like he was, Eric was, upgraded to JJP's George Gomez. Yeah, basically like it's kind of a director position over production entertainment or whatever. Make up whatever you want for it. did you know he did this before this video no no no i didn't and i think it's i think it's awesome you got to have somebody in that role you know you have the director right the designer of the game who's trying to coordinate all the teams and all the licensing and everything and his head's kind of in the fog of development and if you can have somebody that's like a step back overseeing the whole thing looking at the longevity of the company where they're going trend wise with games and giving input that way and limiting hurdles and roadblocks as much as possible. That's perfect. That's the best setup. It's a great move. Every pinball company needs a guy like George Gomez. And this was – I started smiling and I'm like – and it's so cool with Eric Minier. I mean if he has this overhead look on all the designers, all the games, because Eric – I think he has been a designer for like five, six years or so. But all his games, theme integration, he's just number one. He puts that theme into the pinball machine. So I am loving what Mr. Minier is doing. So great welcome. It was so good. And this game, oh, my God. Donnie, did they put Avatar into this cabinet? Did it feel like it? Yeah, yeah. The whole thing just really, really works. I mean, you know, the movies are fine. You know, I enjoy them, but it's not like I watch it every Christmas or anything. but when I go down to Florida and I go to Disney World I'm in their World of Pandora area at the Animal Kingdom because the lore that they created of that planet that's the interesting thing it's fun to walk around this land with the floating big rocks up there above your head, the vines are everywhere the bioluminescence that's going through everything, there's a day night cycle in the land and they took that which is probably the best part of the movie how everything can change and all of a sudden be violet and bioluminescent and all these lights and everything. And then bringing that in the game... Does it look good? Does it work when it goes... It works, and it's not like a switch. You know, when you go to the upside down on Stranger Things, it's like flash, flash, flash, here you are, right? This is a slow... It's done by an eclipse mechanism, right? On this planet, there's an eclipse once a day. So as you're playing the game, the switches that you're hitting are advancing that eclipse, and it comes in subtly. It comes in subtle over time, you know? It's just all of a sudden you're playing, and the light's getting a little bit low, The colors are starting to change, and the music's changing subtly with it. We have a restaurant chain here in the United States and in Japan called the Rainforest Cafe. I don't know if you've been to one of these in Europe, but it's a family restaurant that looks like you're sitting in the rainforest with animatronic animals. And every 20 minutes, the lights go down, thunder roars, and then a thunderstorm happens, right? And it's like this cool effect, and everything changes. Then it goes back to eating nachos in the dark. Nice. They brought that aesthetic here, man. I love themed entertainment. I love themed environments, and that's what they needed to have with this game, and that's what they have. Aside from the game shoots well and everything, that's what they had to bring, and that's what I got excited about.
    10:57
    I mean, their last game shoots amazing, so I presume that it has got fine flipper strength and it shoots well, right? Oh, yeah. That was the first thing I checked. I'm like, okay, flippers are good, no GNR mush. I like this. No. So it feels good. That's really important. It feels good. Good. So my thing with these new games, audio package. When I saw that trailer, it was like, you know, Avatar.
    11:29
    How was it when you was playing the game? I mean, audio package is 50% of it. How was it? Is it just all the time or how was it? Yeah. Now, we were still playing in a factory, right? So, you know, it wasn't the ideal home setting. I didn't have headphones to put on, but the music wasn't punching me in the face. It wasn't jarring. So that was good. It didn't feel out of place. Everything really felt complimentary.
    11:53
    What I liked a lot was even though I didn't recognize the audio tracks themselves from the movie, like, oh, this is the song from this scene or whatever, it all seemed to flow and really compliment, right? You know, so when you're starting the game, it's kind of, you know, a little bit mellow. You're getting used to the shots and everything. As the Eclipse is building, the music tempo is speeding up. So I got that sense.
    12:15
    But it didn't stand out where I really noticed it. It took me out of what I was doing. It feels like a relaxing theme. So a pinball machine is not a relaxing thing. You shoot these pinballs and they fly around.
    12:32
    For me, the funnest games are the fast games. Sure. I mean, I cannot put two and two together with this theme, with this music, with a pinball machine, if you know what I mean. Yeah, this isn't John Wick. This isn't Black Knight Sword of Rage. This isn't a game that you're constantly battling against to stay in the fight, right? Is it a fast shooting game? Yeah, reasonably. Yeah, I mean, you hit the orbits. They got some quickness to them. What I didn't have was a lot of just quick drains out the outline or anything. This was a longer playing game for me A player of average ability I was able to get into an Eclipse Just about every time I played I was able to get into at least one of the multiballs Sometimes multiples I was able to put up some good scores When I got the Eclipse jackpots I can't speak to if the scoring is imbalanced Because I'm not good enough to notice that The game is new So I mean That can be changed So everybody is thinking how is this game when you're thinking about JJP and multiballs? Do you start a multiball and then stack another multiball while you're playing multiball and fifth multiball? Is it like... They had to have been hearing everybody that's like, dude, what's up with these multiballs? Just playing Guns N' Roses again, I'm like, I got like three multiballs all stacked up here and I haven't even done anything.
    13:57
    Why are you playing Guns N' Roses, man? Come on. There was only two multiballs I really noticed while I was playing the game. The one that you get after you battle the crab in the underplay field, and then the traditional one in the upper left when you lock three balls, and then it goes ahead and starts the battle war against the white suppressors, multiball or whatever they call it, with the weird helicopter. How many balls does it have when it has multiball? Is it six, seven, or? I just noticed three.
    14:24
    That's cool. Yeah, I don't know if there's maybe add-a-balls. I don't know. I didn't discover that. Three is enough. three is enough yeah but so under the play field yeah sorry go ahead under the play field it has got this ball lock mechanism where it can lock them balls and you can see through the glass how does it look in real deal isn't it cool it's fine isn't it lit up when you lock them balls yeah it's cool it's it's okay it's cool yeah you see the balls down there that's kind of neat it's a so that the subway system drains down from where the ball is locked from the top of the play field into that area, and then they tee into the other subway system that comes from the other scoop, which is the scoop ramp, which they're calling the scram. It's under that banshee. That's what feeds the under play field. Now, once the balls are done in the crab battle, they all join up the same subway, and they come out of the lower scoop.
    15:15
    Oh, nice, man. I saw pictures. Yeah. You sent me some personal stuff when you was there. I felt like I was there together with you, Don. Thank you for that, my friend. Thank you for that. I was like, woo-hoo, this is so cool. So I saw, you know, under the play field, it looks very, very impressive. It's just J.J.P. quality everywhere. It's amazing looking, man. There's no room for anything else under there. There's not room for anything. Not even a drop target. I mean, yeah. Under the lower play field with the crab mech that got a smaller ball that you play with It all its own self play field So that ball stays down in there it bigger than the ones that are on you know family guy or shrek or monsters you know it's a little bit bigger but it's not quite a full-size ball but it didn't feel like it was just banging around crazy like you know it had a good feel to it it's really cool that it's it's it's turned a bit that on the playfield yeah that lower place the lower playfield isn't in the same it's not parallel with the main playfield it's tilted slightly different so the ball behaves a little bit differently um so cool but before we talk about that i want to ask you it has got a third under play field where it has this little pop bomber yeah yeah so what's mark seiden's idea with this does the ball fell down there and every time it's close to the pop bomber do you need to push the machine to activate that pop bomber what's the design idea behind it so yeah so the ball comes in um the pop bumper slightly offset to the left of where the ball enters and this is the ball that you're playing with it's a full-size ball uh engages the pop bumper no problem there's about three to four stand-up targets that are down there that register hits it looks like there may be five targets all together and so there's a good play back and forth there if the ball bounces over to the right side of the pop bumper it kind of falls down almost into you know where it would be in a little ball trap but then within a couple seconds the pop-up or fires and it bounces back up in there. What you're trying to do is the player controls which stand-up target is lit. And so you're trying to hit all the lit targets. So as the ball is bouncing around, you just move that light to wherever the activity is. And if you can get – Oh, okay. So you press the button to move the light? The light, yeah. Yeah, so if your ball is bouncing over this target, you want to put it over there. And then if it bounces over to the left, you go over that way. That's clever, John. If it completely falls out before you've completed it, then your ball just returns to play and you have to hit it up there again. But once you hit the four targets or something, you go through all the lights, then it activates the crab play field for that little battle. Oh, that's cool. Because from the video, I was like, this looks like a random thing and you just need to just push the cabinet. But if you control the lights down there, that's clever thinking, man. This is a new designer and his first game. So I'm very excited. Every time we get new blood, new designers, I'm excited. It's so cool with new guys. This guy's new, but he's definitely not alone, you know, is the thing. You know, Eric's there, and this guy comes up with an idea. You know, Eric's like, okay, but in production, we're going to have to design this thing in a way that if there's a problem, the end user can unscrew a couple of bolts and get access to it without having to dismantle the entire play field, you know. Yeah, that's so cool. But Eric, he has worked on games. If you have watched some of his videos all the way back when he did the Pirates game, he actually talked about he repaired these games as a young kid. So he thinks like an operator. If something breaks down, it has to be easy to just dismantle this upper playfield, lower playfield. So I'm so happy Eric Menier is doing this. So when you're down there at the crap fighting thing, is it fun? And I'm asking about is it fun because I have like owned all the games. I mean, I remember those lower playfield from Electra, from, you know, all those old games until ACDC. and, you know, none of them, mini underplay fields, none of them was fun to play for me. Maybe Congo a bit. Oh, God, I love Congo. Yeah, that's maybe the one. I don't know because it's like the best design because it's kind of stupid, but I kind of like it because it's kind of stupid. Like Monkey Bash, let's go. Yeah, yeah, with his shoulders, he's just bam, bam, bam, bam. That was okay. But Black Hole and I don't know if you have played those old Gottlieb games or Haunted House. They all had these underplay fields. It just – yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it just – yeah, also you have monsters. I don't like that mini underplay field down there. It's just – it's never fun for me. Is it fun on this game? How did it feel? So, yeah, so this game – at first when I saw that there was a mini ball, I was like, oh, no, here we go. It's going to be like another Munsters or something. It's a ball going around crazy. The gameplay just stops. So because it's that three-quarter scale ball, they're able to use flippers that are normal coil size, normal size mini flippers.
    20:33
    And you're able to trap up, smash the crab, get your ball back, smash them again. Essentially, you have to smash the crab five or six times to complete the mode the first time. The second time, you have to smash them and then hit an orbit, and it will light up and tell you which one to hit. Each time, it felt fun. It was like a nice little break. Like, okay, now I'm down here. It feels like you're playing with the same ball because it drains from the pop bumper and then goes right into that. So it looks like your ball is further under the water. So the way they integrated it was fun. And then when you do beat the crab, that's when the hot rails start flashing red really quickly, just momentarily like you sunk this, I don't even know, crab bot, beetle borg, whatever the hell it is. And then you're right back into gameplay. So this didn't feel like, okay, it's a damaging thing or damaging the flow of the game. It feels like the flow of the game just kind of went down there for a little bit, and now it's back up again.
    21:24
    All right. So you're telling me this works. It's fun. It's cool that they're using this for the, you know. Every time we have under the play field, bill of material on top of the play field gets lesser and lesser. You know, we want more rams, more stuff on top of that play field, you know. So when I saw it has got three, yeah, two and a half under the playfield stuff, I was like, no, we want more stuff on top. But if they are cool, if they work, then it's a great welcome. I want it to work. I want it to be cool. I always said I want JJP to succeed, and I just hope this game is a great one, and I hope it feels like it's a great seller. As I have heard, this is pretty popular. People want this game in today's market, so I'm really, really happy for them. So not multi-ball heavy. Shoots fine. Theme integration is cool. On the mini playfield, is it called under playfield or mini playfield? What do we call them? Underwater magic area. I don't know. Underwater magic area playfield. It just works. And the price is the price, 12 and 15 Gs. On this one, we always talk about best bang for buck. On this one, seriously, I feel like you need that topper. You need to go CE on this game. That's how I felt. So, you know, initially, and it's a little bit with Elton John too, if I'm going to get this game with everything that Jersey Jack is putting into their games now, the rad cows, the cool toppers, the glitter and everything, like I want the good one, you know, but the good one's $15,000. and as good of a game as Elton John is, for me, it just wasn't that good. It wasn't worth that. I think I said something like if I can get a top-end Elton John for $10.50, let's do it, right? But at $15, I'm going to go play it on location. And, yeah. So the price. Okay, so this game, like I want the good one if I'm going to get one, and we didn't even talk about the UV ink yet. But, yeah, this is the version to get. So is it worth the price? Is anything worth the price? Probably not. We can talk about how you would fund a purchase like this here in a bit. But, yeah, like I looked at the limited one, and it's got the same play field, the same play mechanics, the same eclipse. It's got UV effects in it, but it doesn't have like the final polish that that big one has. So like that's the position I get into. If I'm going to get this one, I've got to find a way to get the good one. I want the good one. also you have to remember one more thing donnie the ce versions are thousand but they're unique their armor i mean legs everything is there is they're so unique for every game man it's so it looks amazing what they have done so did you see how the armor looked when you see that you say you saw a half in ce so i don't know what did you see what did you miss so It was in the CE cabinet, so it had the Radcals on there. They've hydro-dipped the armor.
    24:41
    And they did a lot of talk about the hydro-dipping pattern is unique to each machine. So what they did is they created some tooling, like a big drum roll or something, to create this pattern, and then they put the pattern in the water. So every time you put a piece of metal in there, it's going to come out a little bit different. So that's kind of fun. What I did, though, recently I looked at the market, okay, and even going back to Guns N' Roses. the CEs of Jersey Jack haven't fallen in price like everything else in the market has like even a Guns N' Roses CE is still holding on to a lot more value than you would otherwise expect I mean Guns N' Roses LEs are selling for six to seven thousand dollars now but the CEs that one that's still truly limited uh has the better look has the better play field and everything they're still holding value um Elton John CEs right now that game's a year old nearly and they're still like you could find them for 13.5 the msrp is 15 and there's only a couple available on pin side right now so yeah elton john but give me other titles before elton john uh toys look at those ces donny but even toy story 4 like i thought i could pick up a toy story 4 for six thousand dollars now a ce and no it's it's holding no no no no no not a c but uh I mean, of course we want the price. It's sad when people unbox a brand new game and lose $3,000 to $4,000. Nobody wants that, right? Nobody wants that. But I'm going to ask you, because when we talked about Elton John, you said you like the game, you will wait six months, you will buy $3,000 under MSRP secondhand. Cool. So how do you feel about Avatar?
    26:28
    Is it a bye-bye-bye? Is it a I will wait six months and secondary? How do you feel about it? Let me hear. I want to play with the blue people in my house, man.
    26:37
    Uh-oh. Right. Like now or in six months? Probably November when they get made. And here was the thing. Oh, yes. Here was the thing. So I had to go to the factory in order to make this decision because they showed me the CE play field or their prototype. It's not finally approved yet, so they wouldn't allow us to take pictures and share them. But the main difference with the CE play field, normally the top end play field with Jersey Jackets got tons of extra glitter in it, right? So it's got that extra sparkle. The Navi from the film don't use metal. They don't use metallics. They don't use glitter. So they weren't allowed to do that. So they went with the bioluminescence. They went with the UV. and they talked us through this process of how they had to talk to a PhD chemist and come up with UV inks that would work with the clear coat, that would work with the play fields.
    27:27
    And so you get UV ink on the limited edition in like a blue hue, a blue color. There's three colors. There's oranges and reds and blues on the CE one, and I thought that just meant there was going to be extra color. But it's almost like it causes this 3D effect where like the oranges look like they're deeper. The oranges are deeper in the play field The blues are more on top Just like a 3D movie would And They went to Merco and they're like Can you do this and they were having some issues They weren't getting what they wanted or whatever So then they found Bader And they're doing play fields on the CE By Bader the LE play fields are Merco Whatever People have their feelings about that But Another reason to get the CE Another reason And then looking at the market and where Elton John's doing, the fact that the cheapest I could find one was $13,500, which a year later, that's reasonable. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, losing $1,500 in one year of gameplay, it's fine. That's okay. That's the hobby. But $4,000, $5,000, that's not cool. That would hurt. Okay. So you ordered the collector's edition. I called it. Nice. I called up my distro man. We know you're completely booked with games all over the place. I can see the background is just filled up with games. So what's that game to the left where the back glass is gone? What are you doing? Yeah, there. What's that one? That's Legend of Zelda. That's a homebrew project. What the? Have you shared anything of that? Not much. You know, I've mentioned it, you know, because I do need some help putting it all together. but yeah she's ready for wires and ready to start flipping here soon cool okay we will talk about it later more to come okay so you need to sell a game to have another new game inside there you didn't sell wrestling right? Wrestlemania you kept it yeah that's a keeper man that buddy's bolted to the squared circle brother so I wasn't lying my pin budget was depleted with X-Men that had built up. Three X-Men. But what I do have is pin equity. I've got machines that I can convert into avatar cash and then give it over to Jersey Jack. So it was time to share the love of the Big Lebowski with somebody else. It was time. The game's incredible, right? Incredible build quality. It weighs 700 pounds. It's fantastic. but it just I reached the point that it wasn't played as much as everything else and I'm like do I want to keep Lebowski here because it looks cool or do I want to switch it out and put an avatar in there and wait but Lebowski goes for like 11 5 12 13 that's not 15 no so what happened let me hear well boils and ghouls I went over to the crypt and the crypt keeper he came he did me a solid. He came up with the extra rest of the cash. Oh, the Crypt Keeper! I love that game! I love it too! And when people are over, it's a fun game to play, but you know what? I could keep that and keep playing that, or I could turn it into this brand new jewel of a freaking game with back cab under lighting, the best holographic topper ever, three UV ink colors, and I could have in the house, and I decided that I was more enthusiastic about that than these two. I made two of my friends very happy because I really wanted these games. And at the end of the day, that's what it's about. I make men happy. Wait. I make pin friend dreams come true. It can happen to you. Something like that.
    31:20
    Okay. So, yeah, two games out and you're getting this game. Then you have room for this game and also X-Men. That's cool. Let's not get carried away. I wouldn't say I have room, but we're going to make room.
    31:34
    Guys, I know you're just listening to this. I can see everything that's going on in there at the background. I mean, it's just jam-packed. So many great games. I see Star Wars I see Stranger I see Monsters I see Spooker logo at the left Oh my God He still keeps his stern Star Wars Can you get this? I mean, why didn't you sell your Star Wars then? Get all the way out of here. You're not taking that. My Star Wars is now dressed. Is that a mirrored back glass for the LE? I think that just came yesterday. I can't see myself in there. Yeah, yeah. so yeah Star Wars is special you know I'm just joking if you like the game enjoy it you know we are all different I like I mean I talked with a friend and I said I actually like to play Judge Dredd and he was like man that's a cheap game that's a waste of time blah blah blah and I was like but I like it let me like it right so if you like Star Wars more power to you but you know we are all different I can see you have got monsters there I like monsters Most people don't But we're all different Let's just respect that Most people love Deadpool Most people love 007 They're fun You don't like Deadpool?
    32:57
    I want to love Deadpool so much It's okay It's fun We have the Deadpool early And I'm I really enjoy that game I like the humor I like the shots and layout. Also, the limited edition of Deadpool, it has got this red armor. I know. But it has got this gold sparkles included on the – wow. That game stands next to our Jurassic Park limited edition that has got green with sparkles. Oh, my God. I love that sparkly stuff. So I've got this aesthetic. Now let me just talk about my line. I got the black and white premium Munsters looking great right next to my blood red kiss Elvira. So we got the horror thing. They're both black and white. I need a black and white Berrios barbecue challenge to put next to it to finish the set, and then everything will be good. So it works for me. I dig it. Does your stranger thing have black legs? They're purple. They're dark purple there. The whole thing, I put a purple powder coat on the whole thing. I can see that. It just looks black. But, yeah, I can't really see colors that good. I actually wanted to be a police officer, and nine months in the academy, my eyes were bad. So I cannot see colors that good, so I'm not a police officer because of my eyes. Hollywood, are you listening? We need Police Academy Cengiz edition. I want to see him in that movie. Officer Cengiz, licensed to thrill. I would love it, man. I actually, when I was a young kid, I found out that if you're a policeman, if you're a cop in the U.S. for 20 years, you can actually retire. Probably, yeah. Yeah, see, I know more about it than you do, and I'm not even from the U.S.
    34:47
    All right, so, Donnie, I ask like 99.9% of the questions. Can you just ask me, are you guys getting an avatar? Please ask me. Am I getting one? No, ask if I'm getting one. Oh, jingis, sir. Are you getting an avatar from Jersey Jacks? Collector's edition, baby! What? High five, burp!
    35:11
    Let's do it. Let's go see Brothers for Mother Mothers. Ken Cromwell, send us the first one. Let me do an unboxing video with that beautiful game. I mean, to be honest, to be honest, this game, when it got, we knew, We knew this game was coming. I was talking with my bro, Jay. How are you, my dear friend? So we were talking, and my brother, he's such a JJP guy. I mean, he drives the biggest Mercedes with all the toys. He wants all the toys. He wants all the LEs, UACs, everything just filled with toys. And I was like, look at this X-Men. And he was like, yeah, but Avatar. I'm like yeah but this excellent it has got this you know circus voltet that goes up and he's like yeah but look at avatar I'm like oh my god so we were talking like what to get what to get and I mean we talked and couple of hours later I called him we talked again and he was like I ordered the CE and I'm like what of course he did I can't control myself and his argument was but it's JJP number 10.
    36:27
    Dude, is that an argument? He's like, yeah, it's the number 10, you know? These are the lies that we tell ourselves to talk ourselves into bad decisions. It's number 10. Can you imagine having 10 JJP games in one room instead of nine?
    36:44
    Okay, but, you know, yeah, he ordered, and I love that guy, so it's okay. So I'm looking so much forward to it. I'm just, whoa.
    36:54
    This game felt like Alien, like Pinball Brothers Alien, but better. The flow was better. Alien's fun, but it's got a little bit of clunk to it. I don't like how the ball launches in there. This added flow to an Alien Planet-type game with cool lighting effects. It puts you in the same headspace of everything's a little bit dark. We're someplace that's not Earth. There's something lurking out there. It kind of felt more akin to that. So if you dig that vibe and that aesthetic, yeah, I think it's fun.
    37:27
    Can I say something? I mean, I don't hope this comes up negative. If we just take a look at X-Men, we see a lot of different stuff that are inspired by older games, which I personally like. Okay, don't take this negative. I enjoy stuff like that. But if we take a look at Avatar, Satan's newest game here, it doesn't feel like something else we have tried before. It feels like everything is new and fresh. I mean, when you were in there, the first thing you said to me, the backside of Avatar, it feels like all the wire rams in Tales from the Crypt. When you said that, I was like, hell yeah! It's so good, but this game feels so different in a good way. Yeah. In a good way. I had a friend complaining, saying, that back, it's a mess of metal. I don't like it. And I'm like, what are you talking about? That's my favorite part. What?
    38:31
    Oh, man. Donnie, I actually, I listened to Electric. You have the Electric Bat t-shirt on there. It looks great. Electric Bat Arcade. I listened to their show today. Great show, Cale and Rachel. Wow. And Cale was there also. He mentioned you were there. It was so good.
    38:53
    So you were there. Cale was there. Was Retro Ralph there? Retro Ralph was not in attendance, so we sadly missed him, yeah. Loser Kids were there. Half the Loser Kids were there, yeah. Scott Larson for Loser Kids. Okay, okay. Cool, man. Vic was there. Vic VP, yeah. I got to meet him for the first time. Manu was there from Mystery Pinball Theater. Wasn't he excited? He's a JJP guy. I can tell. I can see the enthusiasm dripping off of him. So cool, man. Zach Many was there. No, Zach Many wasn't there. No distros were there.
    39:27
    Zach Many wasn't there? No, not for this one. Not for the JJP day. Oh, no. Josh from... No, Josh. Joel. No, no, no. Zach Many. I know. I know for Flippin' Out Pinball. Yeah, no. No, no. Joel from Triple Train. If I did a media tour, I would definitely invite – he is the biggest YouTuber. He is the biggest podcaster. It is what it is. We are YouTubers. We are podcasters. But Zach Minney is the biggest, man. Why don't you invite him over? I think Joel was there representing Flippin' Out and the streaming service. Oh, nice. Joel was there. Yeah, Joel was there. Oh, my goodness. I love Joel, man. The best beard in pinball podcasting. Yeah.
    40:10
    He can see the machine from all other dimensions. He was playing from space. He was a great guy. Playing from space. Okay, that's cool, man. Yeah, I'm like, I would have been invited. Shout out to Erica's Pinball Journey. She was there as well. Always fun to see her. She brings a lot of video equipment, so she's got cool stuff that's going up right now. Who else can we list? I've heard she's a professional video creator. She's in the industry, yeah. Wow man Wow And I saw a short video She has pinball machines I saw Erica has got Lord of the Rings And another game I don't remember She's doing a great job man I'll ask her someday Let's include her in our show I want to get to know her What's her background How many games, what to do Let's get her in here I want to go to a casual party at her house and see who shows up because I'm fucking E-listers.
    41:14
    It was actually – people are – how can I say this? People want us to make two shows a week. So from our episode 10 to now, it took some time because I want you to come back from this media tour. And we actually want to have Retro Ralph in here. such a great guy we wanted to know him better super enthusiastic yeah he can in weekends and you should go out and do something for spooky this weekend so we could we couldn't do it but we promise in episode 12 we will have retro ralph in here ralphie buddy he wants to come but he reminds me of me because he's busy with like you know a day job oh it's so gross Can we just do pinball man baby stuff full time?
    42:09
    He has got this new pinball energy in him just like you are not new anymore. But he has got this new pinball energy in him. And it just reminds me of just like you, you re-energize us old guys in the industry. That's what we want. That's what we need. So I cannot wait. It's going to be cool. It's cool that so many people are coming in from just the general arcade hobby now too and like retro gaming. And they're finding their way to pinball now because pinball is part retro gaming. It's part modern gaming. It's part gambling. It's part slot machine. It's part model railroad. It's part dollhouse. It's part expensive or bad decisions. It's got it all, man. It's a place to be. Yeah. Pinball is awesome. All right. That's JJP. Yeah. You are getting the collector's edition. We are getting the Collective Sedition, and if Ken Cromwell is a smart-thinking guy, as I know he is, he will send one of the early ones to Denmark so I can make a proper unboxing video and show this to the world. We are all so happy, Mark Seiden and team. What a game they have shown us. What a cool guy Mark is, too. So cool, man. He's a new designer. He is not new to pinball, though, man. Yeah, cool guy. yeah so did you ask him how many years he has been at the jjp i think it's been two years he said lower they've been working on this game for two years i think he might have been there for two and a half or three altogether okay okay but he was brought in off the strength of his homebrew that impressed him so much so i got i gotta yeah what was the game he made metroid oh yeah solid nintendo license man i love every metroid game i've played them all i still replay them i still go back and play super metroid oh man yeah the one for the super nintendo that's my favorite metroid game wow it's so good 1994 greatness in a box all right that's cool so yeah you sneaked into stern also and tried your x-men did you play the limited edition i hope so i played the limited edition and the pro so and the pro and the pro wait wait i have some questions oh god you know answers when we talked on the phone i said i don't want to talk with you let's get everything on this podcast show because when we start talking we start talking so this video nothing is prepared yeah i called donnie like 30 minutes ago and i was like donnie what to do man you wrote four o'clock in the night and you were like i was just i want to see if you're up let's do a show and i'm not prepared anything i didn't prepare let's just do this so limited edition of the x-men looks absolutely amazing but we all watched the one hour video that jack danger did some negative nancy's crying out oh yeah yeah so all right so the controversy was game the video Everything is amazing.
    45:12
    I guarantee you, when this game gets released and you have X-Men in your hands, when you have this game in your hands, you will love it. You will love it.
    45:26
    But when I saw that hand that removes the wires, you know, on the right. I was done. I saw that. Done. It looks cool on the trailer. But when I saw it on the gameplay video, it didn't do anything for me. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Don't get angry. It didn't do anything for me. So the sentinel head going up and down, it didn't really do anything for me. I have a question. On the pro, the sentinel head is always up. Does its mouth shoot the ball back just like on the LE? Yes, sir. On the pro? Yep. Cool. Yep. Jack said the Pro has the diverter at the backside on the ram so it can divert the ball. So we have that on the Pro also. That's cool.
    46:13
    How was the Pro's captive ball effect? You know, the blue guy on the LE that looks amazing. How is it on the Pro? Oh, you mean the Leaper?
    46:24
    Yeah. How is it? Just fine. Is it okay? Yeah. Okay, so in the Beast Lab, you've got that captive ball. It's elevated. There's a cool mechanical linkage up there that knocks the Newton ball back or whatever, transfers the force. It's not a true very target up there. It's three rollover switches and then a stand-up target. It's cool, but, you know, when you hit the post, you see something happen up there, and that's pretty much all you get feedback-wise. When you hit the Leaper post on the Pro, this little thing pops up. It's kind of fun, and it gives you kind of similar feedback. So I think it's, you know, kinetically it seems to be just about as fun of a thing, you know. Whoa. Oh, so you're sitting here and telling me that the Pro is a great buy or what? So here's a secret. Here's a secret. All right. You can keep it on the DL, but the Pro is freaking loaded, dude. This Pro plays so good.
    47:16
    Wow. I don't think you miss anything. I mean, the things that are on the Premium and LE are super fun. I'm getting it. I love those, the sentinel hand crushing it. Just grab me in. Like the finger grabbing the ball, boom. but everything that matters and is important is there on the pro like i can't believe they made this pro as loaded as it is it was super fun i i wasn i was having just as much fun playing them both it didn feel like oh i missing the upper play field like on jaws like i love that upper play field it adds so much more on foo fighters i love what the premium had that the other one didn you didn get the dead post there was a lot missing this doesn feel like you're missing anything so oh my god i'm so happy to hear that man ever get this pro and put it on location this is the best damn pro that they've had like the last five games so i talked to my brother and and he loved toys and i was like dude look at the pro it feels it feels like a really nice bang for your buck game and for location for blah blah blah and we talked and he agreed and a couple of hours later we talked again and then he said we should get the le and i was like what so we're like so here's where this is similar to john wick right um only if John Wick Pro was loaded. Okay, it's not like John Wick at all. Get the Pro or get the LE. Get one of those two because the finish on the LE, the art, the fact that it's different on one side of the cabinet than the other, everything is foiled. It looks amazing. The characters themselves are done with a different type of coating so they stand out with the reflective background. The mirrored back glass is one of the best ones they've done. It's not quite as cool as John Wick. That thing's amazing. but like the mirroring on Colossus looks cool so like and you get the art blades the art blades have foil in them as well on the LE you get the powder coat like get the LE or get the pro probably the best way to go I mean premium is going to be fun too you're just going to have to put a shaker motor in it you're going to have to put art blades on it yeah if I ask you for the same money would you buy X-Men limited edition or for the same money will you have x-men pro and black knight sorts of rage pro yeah absolutely oh yes what would you choose if those were my one or those two pros if that was my only two options right now and like i was looking at putting two games in my basement or one game or i had this much money i think yeah x-men pro and black knight sort of rage oh yeah you'd have that that's great yeah two better than one for me a pinball connoisseur right of elevated refined taste and horrible spending habits um i want that le for sure everybody i just need to tell you this guy donnie he's a doctor he doesn't go out and take takes loans and all that horrible stuff to buy a pinball machine he's a reasonable guy So, you know, he sells a game when he buys a new game. He knows what he's doing. So I have seen some comments where people, man, what he's doing, blah, blah, blah. But everything you do, it's reasonable. It's calculated, yeah. So, yeah, I love what you're doing. You're enjoying the hobby. You just came in last year and it just, what do we have, like 18 games now? So in my life, I've discovered that nothing is impossible, right? If you put in work and devise a plan and get people to help you, you can make it happen. Now, you may not be willing to put in that degree of work to make it happen because it may just be insurmountable. Like I want a private jet. That's not going to happen. That would be too much work. I'm not willing to do that. But it's not impossible, right? So if I get a goal in mind, I keep hammering away until it happens if I want to make it happen. I wanted a skate ramp in my backyard when I was 17 years old, so I went around the neighborhood scrounging every piece of lumber I could get, right? And then I cobbled together, and I built myself a half pipe like Tony Hawk in my backyard when I was 17. I made it happen, and nowadays that was like $200 worth of lumber, but I didn't have that $200. But I knew fields where 2x4s were laying there, so we went and we got them, and we made it happen. But I wanted to take seven weeks and get in my Mustang and drive around the United States going to every theme park and amusement park in the country. And so I got a pup tent. I camped on the side of the road, and we got a season pass to every park, and I was able to do it in seven weeks on the road. That's it, man. I love that way of positive thinking. I love people like that. It's great, man. It's great. So everybody is asking this last $1,000 question. You played both games. Which one is the best?
    52:15
    What a loaded question. So I would say, you know, if you're looking at the machines themselves, who's got the better speaker and sound system? Who's got the better topper? Who's got the better shooter rod? You know, if you're comparing X-Men LE to the CE of Avatar, Avatar is going to win on machine, right? Who's got the best lower play field? Who's got the best hot rails? Who's got the best UV ink? Who's got the, you know, the radcals, right? Just the build of the machine, Avatar is a better machine. but what's the better game these games play different these games play different you know avatar is a game that you go into it's going to play a little bit longer it's going to be less of that frenzy and more of like let's go on this adventure oh the eclipse is coming in let's get ready to hit the spinner and cash out our jackpot jjp millions here they come right where and then and then you finish a game you're like okay i'm gonna go get a soda i'm gonna go watch the netflix and we're gonna come back and we'll play it again later x-men is like i just want to get in that danger room and party i want to go rip the spinner several times i want to hit the ramp and get back out of there i love that flintstone ramp coming in there it's like the deadpool katana shot but flipped 180 degrees uh and then the the subway ramp that figure eight pretzel business does things to a ball like i've never seen before and you can repeat that you can hit that three times in a row and feel like a king and then when your game's over you hit start you want to do it again right i felt like on that video when the ball did that flintstone and came over to the Danger Room, I feel like the players there, they were like, oh, no, it's going to drain. Yeah. Is it a hard area? Does it drain there? No. How is it? No, it's super fun, man. Every time my ball went in there, I was excited, right? It's not like on Wizard of Oz when you go in the left out lane and it's like, oh, crap, now I have to fight to try to save my ball, right? Now I've got to go get Toto. It's like when the ball goes in there, you can nudge a little bit, trap up on that mini flipper, and you can just sit there for a minute. So it can trap up Okay that's nice I was repeating the spinner Which comes right back to the flipper And then grabbing it again resting Can you rip that spinner Multiple times man The last time I played it I ripped it like three times in a row Caught the ball and then went up on the ramp Back to the flipper and then back into the game This is so fun man And you can't tell where the ball is going When you hit a ramp because of the diverters How did it get over there What the heck's going on? And, you know, you can combo shots. Now, as far as, like, the code, the code is further along on Avatar. So I understand, like, the flow of that game already. What? It feels like it's, like, 70%, 80% done. The X-Men code is more complete than the Avatar? No, Avatar is more complete. Oh, okay. I got it the other way. Okay. Because usually when J.J.P. comes up with a game, the code is, you know, pretty coded, you know? Yeah, so what's missing in the code on X-Men is, like, some of the call-outs on the shots, you know, some of the sound effects, some of the music is still not final. With Avatar, like, you know, the modes are in there and the animations are done. You know, I don't think those are going to change much. All that stuff's in there, the video clips that play with the scenes and everything, like, those are in. The final wizard modes aren't ready yet. I was able to spell all the Pandora letters, but then, you know, there's no mode yet ready to go to happen. So the last 20% of the game is not there yet. So when you ride Pandora, should the game go over to the wizard mode? Yeah, yeah. There should be some, like... So you're telling me you tried this game for the first time and you reached the wizard mode? One time.
    55:53
    What? One time I didn't. How cool is that? I'm awesome. This stuff never happens to me. I was in the zone, man. But it wasn't, yeah, this wasn't like a hard, brutally punishing game. I'll have to wait until better people play it to tell me, like, you know, is it easy, is it hard in general. But for me, it seems like something that I could actually get into as an average player, and I love that.
    56:18
    To be honest, I mean, I cannot, we need to get the Avatar game because my brother is my brother, and he's like, he's just, you know, this toy guy and, yeah. But to be honest, I'm actually looking more forward to playing X-Men. That's just how I am. So when a guy like me asks you which one is the better game, I don't care about the topper. I don't care about the tickling finger. I don't care about stuff like that. I don't care about stop and go. I want to shoot, the ball comes back, shoot again, and the ball comes back even faster and just shoot like crazy, nonstop gameplay. So if a guy has the same mind like me, which one is the best game then? If I was buying a game for Genghis, I would buy you an X-Men. I'd buy you an X-Men Pro. I'd open it up. I'd give you a pocket full of tokens, a kiss on the cheek, and then there you go. And I would be happy, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, that's enough for me. So let's see. I can't wait to unbox these games. Oh, man. Aren't we just lucky we're getting two new games in one? They're both really good. That's the thing. Yeah. Both of these are really good. This isn't like, oh, you should get this one. This one totally sucks. Some people are going to love X-Men so much more, and other people are going to be, I'm a J.J.P. guy. This is like my game, right? The people that still own Godfather today are going to be like, give me an Avatar for sure. and other people like us that buys both i mean i don't know where we are in the but in the scale but usually it's you know jjp fanboys or stern army but uh i don't know man i'm just so happy i'm fed up with the negativity this music audio package is bad on x-men i don't get it i think it's awesome the way it is i hope i've heard that they will change the music package if they do so i just hope that you can go into the menu and just choose yeah alternative so they keep this keep this and just make alternative order package i love other options like let me play the game in different ways like jaws jaws is great right now you can play the regular game or you can play these new 8-bit modes if you want i love the challenge modes i love being able to go into black knight sword of rage and choose two different audio now yes i have it's But I think I like the original better because I just like that, but I like having that option too. Yeah. That's great. More of that, please. Yeah. So I get what they were doing with the audio, but I think if I was putting this on a location, maybe I would rather have it just like more traditional, just rock music. Let's go right into it for people that are only going to be playing for two to three minutes at a time, general public. But give me the option. Give me the option to customize. Yeah, yeah. Alternative packages. Don't just remove what you have done. Because I have been defending this audio pack. I have made three videos with X-Men, and I have got a lot of trouble, a lot of negative comments. Like, the game is not finished. If I have to pay this much money, I won't pay them.
    59:38
    My answer to all of them is when you play this game, you can see it from the... When you play this game, you're going to get mind-iffed. So stop the negativity. X-Men is an awesome game. One of the – it's going to – yeah. Now this is coming from the guy that made a custom audio package for Tales from the Crypt full of Journey music. Yeah. So when I play, we're playing Journey on Tales from the Crypt. So for you, sir. It's so good. Yes. Yeah. So I think X-Men is probably the game they designed for you, man. It's got everything. It's got a center post, man. Let's talk about that. Does it work? Yes. Did it save the ball? It's fun. Yeah. He's like, why not? And then he was saying that the traditionalists at Stern were like, do you really want to put a center post in there? Eventually it came down to if the operators don't want a center post in their game, they can take it out, and that's fine. Yeah, of course. We think it's fun. We're doing fun stuff. And this is a game that Jack built for fun, man, because that's exactly what it is. Yeah. So good. So this Sentinel hit. Yeah. So on the LE, it goes down. So on the Pro, it's up all the time. I mean, what's the effect? What happens when it's down? What is it for? I don't know. Maybe it's got to wake up or something. I didn't really see that yet. I don't know if it's fully coded or if this is what we're getting. It never goes below the play field and hides. So it's always – its head is always sticking – like it's crown. Its helmet is always there to bash into. So that's another thing. Like it's cool, that effect, like, oh, it's coming up now. It's time to hit him in the chin. But on the Pro, it doesn't go up or down. So what? You still bash the thing, right? the chance still falls i presume we have got the magnet in front of the head on the pro also okay and you say he you say he shoots the ball back on the pro also that's important yeah yeah yeah how was it did it drain when he did that or is it is it cool no i mean you got the ball back you got to react you know but it didn't feel i didn't see it going straight down the middle now i didn't have hours to sit there with the game and dissect it i mean you know i was over there for maybe you know 30 minutes to an hour at a time you know playing in some four-player games a couple of solo games talking to the guys they've got this whole bar streaming room set up it's amazing it's like you walked into someone's downstairs basement and they have like a bunch of their toppers are all lined up on the shelf so you can go play with them and stuff they got diet cokes in the fridge and some sandwiches it's like the best place to go hang out did you see the x-men topper no not yet Not yet. I didn't see the Venom one either, and I was looking.
    62:13
    No. Let's see. Let's see, man. All right, Donnie. This was an amazing show with you. Thank you, buddy. We said 30 minutes. How much? One hour, two minutes right now. Yeah. So plenty. Okay. You have to go. I have to go. It was so cool. Next week, let's get some retro. I was about to say retro Donnie, but retro Ralph in here. And do episode 12 together, right? Absolutely. Ralph, boy, get off of work. Let's hang out during the weekend. We can do this every weekend. Yeah, man, what if this weekend is only in the weekends, Ralph? What's going on, man? Adults and their money and their jobs and their responsibilities. That's the problem. Ah, yes. Just take a loan. We are Pitbull. Yeah. Episode 11. I hope you guys enjoyed it, and I hope we see you on episode 12, where Donnie has put up some Patreon stuff. He has some surprises. You can go in and join this team, and you can actually join this show, be here. And he has got so many ideas. We talked about this back in Episode 6 or something. It's going to be there. Right, Donnie? Absolutely. At the $50 a month level, you can come and sit on my lap as we record.
    63:29
    Who else is doing that? So good. You heard it, man. Peace out. Another one.