Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

Ep 91: Talking News

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 12m·analyzed·Aug 26, 2022
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Loser Kid Pinball discusses tournaments, charity expo plans, and industry news including American Pinball's Magic Girl and Spooky's strategic shift.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss Loser Kid's approach to episode 100, recent personal tournament experiences in Utah, the upcoming We Love Pinball Autism Charity Expo in Chicago, American Pinball's Magic Girl announcement, Deep Root Pinball's failed Men in Black licensing attempt, and Spooky Pinball's strategic transition toward becoming a boutique manufacturer.

Key Claims

  • Greg Bone from Flip N Out Pinball mailed Josh his personal opto part to help repair Josh's Rush machine despite parts delays

    high confidence · Josh Roop describing service experience with Flip N Out Pinball

  • Roughly 60 different people attended two tournaments in Utah on the same Saturday (flip frenzy format with 45 people, Nathan Smith's tournament with 30 people, minimal overlap)

    high confidence · Josh Roop describing Utah tournament attendance and scene growth

  • American Pinball has completed Magic Girl to a playable state with two gentlemen from Europe finishing most of the code

    high confidence · Josh Roop announcing American Pinball news about Magic Girl

  • Deep Root Pinball attempted to license Men in Black using artwork from an obscure mid-2000s video game (Alien Crisis) that was rated 2-2.5 out of 10

    high confidence · Josh Roop discussing Blueberry Jeff Johnson interview revealing Deep Root Pinball licensing attempts

  • Spooky Pinball has welcomed Ben Heck back to the Arcade team and Lucas Prepkey, and confirmed Phasma will continue doing code on their games

    high confidence · Josh Roop reporting on Spooky Q&A announcement

  • We Love Pinball Autism Charity Expo (October 19-23 in Chicago) will feature interviews with Eric Meunier, Keith Elwin, Amanda Hamilton, and Bill Webb

    high confidence · Josh Roop announcing confirmed guest lineup for Expo

  • Josh's son Carter beat Josh in a tournament at their house using Match Play format

    high confidence · Josh Roop describing family tournament experience

  • Scott Larson secured vacation time to attend Chicago Expo and is flying in Wednesday, leaving Sunday morning

    high confidence · Scott Larson confirming Expo attendance after being on waiting list

Notable Quotes

  • “It's not, are they able to sell you a game? It's like, what happens if there are any issues? Because pinball has issues. There's tons of moving parts, and something will not work.”

    Josh Roop @ ~04:30 — Emphasizes customer service quality as key differentiator for pinball manufacturers beyond just sales capability

  • “The hole that's behind the theater curtain rejects a lot. And considering that's where your modes are at and that's where a lot of your points are at, it gets super frustrating when you shoot the shot, and it rims out and you do that like six times in a row.”

    Josh Roop @ ~18:00 — Technical gameplay observation about Houdini pinball machine mechanical frustration in tournament settings

  • “A product is not solely one person's contribution. And there were other people. Zombie Yeti, with his awesome art, really made that game look amazing.”

    Josh Roop @ ~45:30 — Defense of continuing Magic Girl project despite John Papaduke's departure, acknowledging collaborative nature of game design

  • “It just shows that the whole point of that company was a smoke screen. It was a total smoke screen. There was never any long-term plans to make anything, at least from the founder.”

    Scott Larson @ ~52:00 — Direct condemnation of Deep Root Pinball's foundational legitimacy based on licensing revelation

  • “As soon as Josh said, no, this is something that personally affects Josh. That's a challenge. Raising kids with special needs is a challenge. As soon as Josh said he was going to do it, I'm like, I'm going to do everything I can to be there.”

    Scott Larson @ ~37:00 — Shows personal commitment to Autism Charity Expo due to direct impact on co-host's family

  • “Spooky's in a transition point. And I think they're just trying to find what kind of company they want to be. And it seems that with these moves, they have decided they want to be a small boutique pinball company.”

    Scott Larson @ ~68:00 — Analysis of Spooky Pinball's strategic direction based on recent personnel announcements

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonZach SharpepersonNicolepersonGreg BonepersonNathan SmithpersonBlueberry Jeff JohnsonpersonSpooky Lukeperson

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: We Love Pinball Autism Charity Expo confirmed for October 19-23 in Chicago with announced guest lineup (Eric Meunier, Keith Elwin, Amanda Hamilton, Bill Webb, Roger Sharpe pending, and multiple podcast hosts) and manufacturer product donations from Stern, American, CGC, and Haggis with free shipping included

    high · Josh Roop provided detailed announcement of guests, auction items, manufacturer partnerships, and logistics

  • ?

    product_launch: American Pinball has completed Magic Girl pinball machine to a playable state with European team finishing most code, machine will be showcased at Chicago Expo

    high · Josh Roop announced American Pinball news about Magic Girl; called it one of his top highlights for Expo

  • ?

    operational_signal: Flip N Out Pinball demonstrated exceptional customer service by having Greg Bone personally mail his own opto part to Josh to solve Rush machine repair issue when factory parts were delayed

    high · Josh Roop detailed personal experience receiving part in mail and using it to get machine working; contrasted with parts delay situation

  • ?

    community_signal: Utah pinball tournament scene showing significant growth with roughly 60 different participants across two simultaneous tournaments on one Saturday, indicating strong competitive community development

    high · Josh Roop documented flip frenzy tournament with 45 people and Nathan Smith's tournament with 30 people with minimal crossover

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky Pinball making strategic decision to position itself as a small boutique pinball company rather than attempting to compete at Stern's scale, evidenced by personnel announcements and Q&A messaging

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.219

0:00
thanks for tuning into the loser kid pinball podcast this is josh roop we are on episode 91 with me my co-captain as always scott larson and scott i can't believe we're on episode 91 100 is just right around the corner i know it's crazy right but you know we've been doing this for almost four years now and isn't 100 when you have to hang it up like that's right here by law you know like eclectic gamers have uh shattered that stigma that so maybe maybe we can keep going if we hold on to hope may journeys don't stop believing just like flipping out has not stopped believing in us because they just like journey exactly and no that doesn't mean a journey pins coming but if you need that new game if you need some of that sweet swag head over to flipping out dot com or call Zach or Nicole many directly. If you did not listen to the pinball show this week, they were both on. There was awesome to hear Nicole talk about the life of having to live with Zach.
1:06
I will say Jack is genuinely a nice guy and he's motivated and he is. He is certainly invested in trying to spread pinball. um everything he does even aside from his business is all about it's a the pinball life and okay if you're talking about stern saying that it's a global lifestyle brand flipping out is living the global lifestyle brand of living the pinball dream yeah no i agree you know you know you're in deep when you're like i just built a brand new barn outside the back of my house to house how many machines was it like 30 or plus well now that is part of their business too to be able to have a place for them but it's that would be awesome i totally am jealous yeah but you build it and then you turn around go we still don't have enough space and so you put that house up for sell to find more bigger land to build on which is awesome i'm not jealous at all gosh dang it i'm totally jealous um okay uh let's talk about service though uh so i've talked long and hard about my frustrations with Rush. Oh, my. And the waiting on the opto.
2:17
So Greg Bone, who actually helps Zach as part of the tech and the service issues, he actually pulled out the opto from his personal machine and mailed it to me. Wow. And so even though we're waiting on parts delayed, I was able to get that and install it, and now my Rush is up and running. So just think about that when you're looking for that pinball company that you're trying to buy from. It's not, are they able to sell you a game? It's like, what happens if there are any issues? Because pinball has issues.
Eric Meunier
person
Keith Elwinperson
Amanda Hamiltonperson
Bill Webbperson
Roger Sharpeperson
Ben Heckperson
Lucas Prepkeyperson
Phasmaperson
Justin Bensonperson
Jen Rupertperson
Flip N Out Pinballcompany
American Pinballcompany
Deep Root Pinballcompany
Spooky Pinballcompany
We Love Pinball Autism Charity Expoevent
Magic Girlgame
Rushgame

medium · Scott Larson analysis of Spooky's transition and moves toward boutique positioning; hiring of Ben Heck and Lucas Prepkey

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Deep Root Pinball exposed as fraudulent company with no legitimate long-term manufacturing plans, using obscure video game licensing (Alien Crisis for Men in Black) as smokescreen; implies SEC action preceded intended October timing

    high · Josh and Scott discussing Blueberry Jeff Johnson interview revealing Alien Crisis video game use, calling company a 'total smoke screen'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Discussion of Will Smith's damaged marketability post-Oscars incident and its impact on potential Men in Black pinball machine viability; strategy discussion around using comic book vs. movie versions of IP to avoid controversy

    medium · Josh and Scott discussing Men in Black machine viability, Will Smith's current market position, and strategic alternatives like comic book approach

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Spooky Pinball announced return of Ben Heck to Back to the Arcade team and addition of Lucas Prepkey, with confirmation that Phasma continues code work

    high · Josh Roop reporting Spooky Q&A announcements about team changes

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Notable positive shift in community response to We Love Pinball Autism Charity Expo, with multiple manufacturers and content creators proactively reaching out to contribute, demonstrating industry-wide buy-in for cause

    high · Josh Roop noting that many people reached out asking how to help; manufacturers donating products and offering free shipping

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Houdini pinball machine identified as having significant mechanical rejection issues with theater curtain hole (where modes/points are located), causing frustration in tournament play with repeated rim-outs

    medium · Josh Roop's firsthand tournament experience describing repeated rim-outs on key shot in Houdini

  • ?

    content_signal: Loser Kid Pinball Podcast approaching episode 100 milestone after nearly four years, recognized as influential voice in pinball community; won inaugural Pinball Awards podcasting category; hosts organizing major charitable initiative

    high · Josh opening discussing episode 91 and approach to 100; discussion of Loser Kid's role in community and charitable Expo organization

    • 2:53
    There's tons of moving parts, and something will not work. I mean, man, that's awesome. That's like, I know it's not this intense, but it's like a doctor will be like, you need a kidney? I have one. It's next level. Yeah, it definitely is next level. I'll just get a new one when it comes down the line. Don't worry about it. It's all good.
    3:10
    Well, no, that's awesome. If you need anything, get a hold of them. Flipping out fantastic people. Let's talk about our last couple of weeks. I don't actually, I can't remember the last time we talked about ourselves, Scott. Well, maybe I guess you did about Texas Roadhouse because we keep getting people to this. So if you went to Texas back, that's not very common that they're like that. Like, are you okay? Yeah.
    3:31
    It's okay. I've let it go. Texas Roadhouse. My kids like it. I just prefer other places. So I don't blame you. but the rattlesnake bites are so good. Stick around, stick around. There are other options. So what did you add going on? Obviously you got Rush up and going. How's that been? You know what? It's been really fun. I was concerned because of the similarities to X-Men, which although X-Men, I think it's a beautiful game. I could just never get into it. Okay. It just never felt like, oh, I would play it and be like, oh, okay, and move on. rush uh the huge benefit now is there are uh there are explanations on stern's website it's a it's a matrix that talks about hey these are the modes this is how you this is how you light them and uh it's a little outdated it needs to be updated however reading through that and the depths that uh tim and ray were able to go through on the code um it makes it a lot more fun because it's not a standard, hey, shoot left, shoot right, shoot up the middle, or something like that. There are reasons why you're trying to hit certain shots. And so I've been trying to learn, okay, so I'm trying to collect these albums, and you have to do three shot combos to pick up these albums, and they're hard. They're hard for elite players, I'm sure they can knock them out, but for average players, it's hard to get those.
    5:01
    But it's been a lot of fun i've really appreciated how well the game goes the new scoop does it does help uh the new scoop protectors it actually makes it less of a i was finding the scoop probably more than i should have and with the with the protectors on the side it probably opens up other things and it doesn't fall into the scoop as often as it used to when you don't need to you know and this is a game i would like to get more time on i originally got a bunch of time i got two or three hours on it when it first came out i mean it hadn't been out two weeks yet yeah and the code was still fresh um and it was on a pro and i just think that it i wasn't enjoying the left side of the play field it's hard it's hard when you're on location the music's turned down i mean that's that's most the experience is the sound with the game yeah we've talked about this before play tna without the sound on it just it feels awkward like a bad day not the same not the same yeah it just isn't not yeah and so i would like i need to come out to your house again when you my son is dying to get back on your iron maiden he's like dad we need okay i okay you actually stopped off i i was held up last week so you actually came out and you dropped off we ordered some hats and so they came hats yeah yes yeah new hats and i it's funny because i actually worked overnight on friday and I usually get off right at seven o'clock and I'm able to, to get my day going. But we actually had an emergency at the hospital. So I was held up for an hour and a half. And so I couldn't get going, but I also promised my son to take him on an activity. And so that pushed everything back. And so you had a timeline where you were stopping off in my house for like five minutes and I missed you by, I think 20 minutes. Yeah. I think my timeline was, is we could hang out your house for like 45 minutes. Yeah. We just, it was two ships passing in the night kind of situation. Yeah. No, it's a, but yeah, I've got the, I've got the hats and that's nice. Yes. And so we'll be able to get some things going. I also got some magnets. I ordered some magnets. So I have loser kid magnets that I'll bring to Chicago. And that's an update too. I actually got the time off. I was on the waiting list for Chicago and I did get the time off. So I'm flying in Wednesday and I'm flying out Sunday morning. Nice. Awesome. I'm glad you'll be there because it was very up in the air there for a second. I couldn't guarantee because unless I have vacation, I can't just – my job, you're not really able to call in sick and squeeze that extra vacation day. It just doesn't work. I'm very sick. Why haven't you come to the hospital then, Scott? You should be checking in. That's what you got. Yeah, I'm fine. You pulled a Paris Bueller? I know that sounds like our case. You have a fever. No big deal. Yeah. No, that's awesome. Well, and to lead into what I was doing, I guess, this past week, my son's been bugging me for a while now to do a pinball tournament. And Nathan Smith of Lit Amusements, I traded my no fear to him for his Johnny Mnemonic. And while I was out there on my birthday, he said, hey, we have a tournament coming up at the end of August. Why don't you come out and join us? And I said, well, it is Ogden. It's only a four-hour drive one way. So let me think about it. And so my wife's like, you haven't done it since forever. Go ahead and take Carter. And Carter's dying, right? Like, it's really funny because he beat his dad in a tournament we did at my house just for fun with the family. But I was stressed because we actually used match play and all that stuff. So I was more focused on, like, everyone's machines working fine and the match play working fine. And he beat his old man. So it was really funny. It wasn't by much, but he did. He did beat me. And so he's already asking, like, so we're going to Texas, right? And you're going to put me in the tournament there. and I go, you do know like Ray Day is probably going to be in that tournament. And he's like, oh, I can take on Ray Day. And I'm like, I like that enthusiasm.
    8:56
    Hold on to that. But we went to Nathan Smith's house, wonderful house. Got to meet his wife, Christy. She was awesome and met his kids. They were great too. And it was cool because there was a brunch tournament. It was a flip frenzy that they only did for a couple hours. and then after the flip frenzy they had this tournament at his house and we couldn't get up there early enough for the flip frenzy but between the flip frenzy which almost had 45 people and then Nathan's had 30 and there wasn't much crossover that means there was roughly 60 people at both, 60 different people at the two tournaments combined on a Saturday in Utah so the scene is growing here and I didn't realize it's growing as much as it is but it was great. It was just progressive strikes. So if you take first, you don't get any strikes.
    9:52
    And then on your way down, you get one strike for every place you play slow. So if you're in fourth place, you get three strikes. Ten strikes, you're out. Kind of an easy concept. My boy was out on the fifth round. Yeah. And he was upset about that because he went out on whitewater. Oh. And he's like, no, I should have had that. I was like, it's fine, dude. It's Stephen Strom. I saw that Steve made it up So Steve drove up He drove up from Vegas He flew in So Steve used to live in Elko So that's just on the other side of It's on the Utah Nevada border Just think of like where Vernal is To Salt Lake Elko is the other way They're west I'm east Basically the same town So Steve used to come up all the time He was really good He actually took the championship in Utah on to when it was in Vegas. What was that? Was that 2019?
    10:48
    He did pretty well. He knocked out Steve Bowden. He's got some chops, right? He's got skills. When he knocked my son out of the tournament, I'm like, don't feel bad. It's not a big deal.
    11:00
    I was frustrated though. I went out on round seven, I want to say it was. I messed up my first game. I did not sandbag. I just did not do well on my first game. but then I won every game after that except for when we started getting towards the end. They put us on Houdini. Have you played Houdini, Scott? I have, and it's tight. It's tight. Yeah. But the thing that I learned on Houdini that I've really never noticed because I've never been in a tournament setting is the hole that's behind the theater curtain rejects a lot. And considering that's where your modes are at and that's where a lot of your points are at, it gets super frustrating when you shoot the shot, and it rims out and you do that like six times in a row and so uh i ended up i i needed to have third or higher and nate's son ended up rallying on his last ball and knocked two of us out of the tournament by bumping himself from fourth to second so yeah nate's son's really good yeah he is really good and so uh that whole that whole family is really good at pinball it's pretty awesome it was funny to overhear some of the people talking to him like how did you get your sons into pinball so much like you got any pointers for us in our family yeah and it's a my kids will come and play when i'm playing i think that's the key is they want to hang out with mom and dad and so they're likely not going to sit down and and flip out on their own yeah but if if we're playing they'll come over so it was awesome steven's birthday was this weekend happy birthday steve They brought two cakes because party. And then Nick Stone, who's also in the Salt Lake group, it's his birthday today. We're recording on August 24th. So happy birthday to you as well. But it was really cool because there was a lot of old school league players there. Dan Newman, we've had him on the show, episode four. I know a lot of people haven't listened to that episode because it's the least listened episode we have. Well, we were just barely cutting our teeth. Yeah, and so he talked about the local scene and what it took to run tournaments on that episode. so it's cool to talk to Dan Matt Shablam a wonderful friend of mine if you don't know Matt find him at he's secretly in the background at like all the big conventions and stuff like that I love his stance he plays like Frankenstein yes he stands super straight upright with his head down and just flips the flippers yes he's an awesome guy like Matt is he's an awesome dude other than that I don't know. It was cool meeting a lot of new people and hanging out with old friends. And so I'm excited to do it again. I can't wait to do another tournament. Um, cause it's been since 2019. My last one was in November, 2019.
    13:45
    It's been a while for me too. And just, I went to the rush, uh, party, but it's, it's hard. I really do have a very busy schedule. And so it's hard for me to budget that out because it does take away from family time, which will always take priority on my book. We need to have another barbarian tournament at your house. Because if you guys haven't seen it, I think it is episode four. It's our picture. Scott is Conan the Barbarian. It's awesome. It's hilarious. No Photoshop at all. That was just me. That was him ripped. That was just him asking to take off his shirt and he just ripped it right down the front middle and threw the shirt away. Exactly. So I guess that catches us up on our last month or two, I guess. Yeah, I think so.
    14:29
    So yeah, let's move on. We got some news. Before we go into the news, let's talk a little bit about flipping the script on autism.
    14:37
    Like Scott, he is now planning to go to Expo. He'll be there with us. If you haven't gotten your tickets yet, Expo is October 19th through the 23rd. I know there's a little conflict between that and Rocky Mountain Pinball Show, but trust me, you're going to want to be at Expo. It's going to be at Chicago Expo. um it's hey if you can obviously rocky we uh we have supported rocky mountain too oh yeah and uh that is a great local show that i've been to um and if if you you know go to either of them but if you can come and hang out with us well and you can still support us that is thursday so i don't think rocky mountain expo actually starts till friday right tune in on the stream on thursday let's start talking about i can officially announce some of these guests now We've got Eric Menier. He's going to be interviewed by Poor Men. It's Drew and Rachel right now. We also have Keith Elwin, Amanda Hamilton, and Bill Webb of Special Winlet slash Free Play Pinball is going to be there. They're going to be interviewing Keith. We've got an amazing lineup of people and auction items. I've got play fields. I've got trans lights, shirts, hats, koozies. There's accessories for your pinball machine. These are all going to be available either via the stream or there's going to be some items exclusive to Expo. And we've also talked to the pinball manufacturers, and a lot of these are going to be shipped out to you at no cost. So when you're doing the auction, don't worry about, oh, I should hold off because it's going to cost me $100 to ship the Playfield or whatever it is, whatever shipping costs are now. Don't worry about that. Stern, American, CGC, all those people that are donating product have agreed, we're going to ship it to you. So it's going to be awesome. Even Haggis, Haggis out of Australia contacted me and was like, hey, how can we help? And I appreciate that. There's been a lot of people that reached out. There's been a lot of people that reached out and asked how they could help. I feel bad that not everyone's been able to assist in one way or another because there's just so many people that are affected by autism and whether they know someone, whether they have a child with it. I wish there was more that we could do to include everyone that wants to help. There hasn't been anyone that we've turned away. We've given them their options of how they can help and they said yes or no. But no, seriously, flipping the script is going to be awesome. I'm super excited that I'm able to make it because I was concerned. I didn't know if I was going to be able to come to Expo this year. As soon as Josh said, no, this is something that personally affects Josh.
    17:18
    That's a challenge. Raising kids with special needs is a challenge. As soon as Josh said he was going to do it, I'm like, I'm going to do everything I can to be there.
    17:27
    A couple others. Raymond Davidson is going to be there along with Triple Drain, Travis, possibly Tom. Tom's got a tight schedule, man. He is the king of tournament streaming, so I don't blame him if he can't make it. But I'm excited for a lot of our hosts. Like I already mentioned, Poor Man, Free Play, Triple Drain, No Coin Drop Required with Jen Rupert. If you do not know this lady, you need to have her in your life. She is such a cool, positive influence in pinball. She is bettering the hobby and the tournament scene. I know that's just my personal opinion, but after meeting her at Expo last year at the tournament when I was like I don have anything to do on Thursday I drop the money to do the tournament And then I was like maybe I should have not done this because I don know if I have time for this now after everything picks up Jen was there She was very understanding. She was very helpful.
    18:21
    I felt like she was walking a child through baby's first big tournament. And she did it with a smile and a get up on anything. So Jen's going to be there. I'm excited for that. Zach Menny, we're holding off on the guest that he is interviewing. Not because they haven't agreed, but we're doing a special announcement for them.
    18:42
    We're also excited. We're going to have Justin Benson from Learning Solutions. He's going to be there kind of talking about the mission statement. And we're going to talk about some of the different things that Learning Solutions is doing for kids with autism. And Roger Sharp.
    18:58
    He's not 100% yet. It must be a rough life, man, because he's got a movie premiere about his life. Yeah, we'll talk about that, too. But, hey, you know, I don't know of anybody who has anything negative to say about Roger. Yes, I agree. So that's where we're at. Flipping scripts looking great. It's full steam ahead. I'm getting nervous just as it's getting closer, and I'm trying to cross the T's and dot the I's kind of thing. So please join us. I am very grateful that my family is able to allow me to disappear even a little bit at a time to help support, well, one, my weird hobby. and pinball is odd and having your own pinball podcast is odd.
    19:40
    But it's been great to know that I've had a lot of support from them too. So it's nice that they're allowing me to take a little time off. Initially, I was going to try to split time between Expo and a family vacation, but we just decided to take the family vacation the next weekend. And so I'm there.
    19:58
    Awesome. That's great to hear. I'm excited you're going to be there. So it's going to be great. Speaking of Expo, American Pinball made an announcement this week, and it's pretty cool. They've got their hands on a Magic Girl. There's two gentlemen over from Europe that have completed the game to a playable state,
    20:17
    and they've finished most of the code. I'm sorry, I didn't read the full article. I apologize. But they've done a really good job. I've watched the video. They've done a really good job to go ahead and finish this game. I know it's controversial because it's J-pop and it was originally supposed to be Zidware and all that stuff. Yes, there's a lot of challenges with that. However, I will argue that a product is not solely one person's contribution. I agree. And there were other people. Zombie Yeti, with his awesome art, really made that game look amazing. Oh, yeah. And so there are things where it's like, well, I'd love to see it. And I'd love to see how it flips. And I'm glad that they're able to do it in a playable state. Yep. I agree. And I'm looking forward to this. This is one of my highlights going to expos. Yeah. Flipping the scripts at the top, and then I've got to play Magic Girl. Yep.
    21:19
    And also speaking of J-pop, there was new Deep Root news. A lot new. New, old-ish. so if you haven't checked this out either um blueberry johnson was interviewed and he he dropped a bomb that uh deep root had the licensing was attempting to get the licensing for men in black but they used this really obscure video game from like the late early or mid 2000s that just tanked but it was just the artwork or we don't know really but they used for sure the artwork from it. Like on a scale of one to 10, this game was rated like two and two and a half from the two reviewers that did it. Uh, collective gamers did a better job of talking about this. So if you want a more in-depth discussion on about the video game and whatnot, I would recommend going and checking out Dennis and Anthony,
    22:12
    but it's weird to me because they did the 10 themes and this was nowhere near that. Yeah, it wasn't, but it, okay. It just shows that the whole point of that company was a smoke screen. It was a total smoke screen. There was never any long-term plans to make anything, at least from the founder.
    22:34
    And it just shows that there's different things that they can use to distract that they're never going to make a game. Yeah. Well, it's funny to me is like, I, I felt like we've been pretty realistic with the expectations of Deep Root, right? Yeah. We've had some people are like, you guys are a little harsh on them. And it was funny because we had a previous employee come up to us at one of the shows and said, honestly, it was what you guys were saying that got me through working there. Yeah. And, uh, if it wasn't for you guys, he was like, I don't know what I would have done. Yeah. Now, I will say it's easy for us because we're not personally affected. And I do feel bad for everybody who was personally affected and duped out of millions of dollars. Yeah. How much do you think of that was pinball people and how much of it was actually old people with their retirement? So that's what I want to know. I think a lot of it was old people with their retirement. It just it stinks. It just it just seemed like pinball was kind of the cherry on top. And it's weird to think that if things would have not happened sooner with the SEC, Robert could have been outed before he attempted to take money in that October. So, yeah, it just it stinks is what it is, I guess. Right. yeah but okay so men in black though okay let's assume that he was able to get the men in black license okay men in black was a fun movie right yeah it made made a lot of money i would say will smith star power has taken a significant hit this year and yeah i know weird right well i think something something happening uh but is that something that is he marketable right now? Or is he considered like, eh, I'm not really interested. We should do something else. Well, you'd have to split the pinball community into two different types of people. The anti-Chris Rock and the pro- Chris Rock.
    24:30
    Now I will say that you could probably split it under the, well, you could split it under how to react when something offensive happens. and if violence toward the offender is your solution,
    24:51
    again. This is the pin for you. Yeah, that seems kind of dark. If there are other alternatives to say, you know, that really wasn't cool, but whatever.
    25:02
    Yeah, I don't know. I think that it wouldn't sell. This year it would crater just because it's not the right time. I say yes and no I think that people look at they're able to separate the person from the project sometimes there are people who sold off all of John Trudeau's games yeah true he's not the only person who helped him out and I totally understand that but there are some people who are like no that's a line I'm unwilling to cross I still have Black Rose and I like it it's not going anytime soon but I also understand there are people who have negative connotations with certain people and it's just not going to it's something they're not going to do. I think that Men in Black though is a big enough franchise that you'd be fine without it I guess it would be up to the manufacturer though whether they included Will Smith or not that's the problem is at least with Mandalorian when they got rid of Gina she wasn't super integral in the show like she was there you definitely felt that she was there but they were able to work their way around her yeah they were able to pivot and i'm not going to get into the the politics politics of that um but my point being interesting that some people are allowed to say things um that are over the top on one side and other people that i don't agree with but the same level of comments if they're said from a certain other side then people's like oh you can't say that yeah really because maybe we should both play by the same rules yeah but but my point being is is it'd be a lot harder to pivot around men in black which was the tommy lee jones and will smith show right that is 95 of the reason you're watching the show is the dynamic in the relationship there and and it'd be hard to make a men in black machine yeah however the the pinball thing from that I'm looking at that it doesn't, you know, it actually shows someone who obviously looks like a silhouetted Will Smith. So this is Alien Crisis.
    27:20
    And so it's like, well, you're definitely playing off that. That doesn't look like Tommy Lee Jones standing there. Well, and Alien Crisis was a video game from the mid-2000s.
    27:29
    Yeah, still. And if it were me, I think it'd be a smart approach to go the comic book route. then you don't have to deal with it. Yeah, and then you can disconnect the association with the actor. Yeah, probably. But then you still get the boost from the theme. Right. You can disconnect the theme.
    27:49
    It's like Deadpool. I still think Deadpool is an amazing game. I'm totally fine with it. And for my home environment, if it were from the movie, I couldn't get it. Yeah. Because I bet that it would definitely have a very R-rated soundtrack, and it's not that way. It's totally family friendly. I guess there is a setting where it's one or two words. But for the most part, it's not threatening in my collection. Actually, when Deadpool first came out, I had a gentleman message me and asked, could Deadpool go in your home? And I said, yeah, I don't see why not. And he said, we've had a rough time with Hell House. And I was like, okay, well, you know, I understand from your perspective. but I just don't think that hell house goes over bad in my house. So, yeah. Okay. So hell house, is that like a theme on there or. Yeah, that's the scoop. So Deadpool's hanging out in the hell house. That's where you gotcha. Like all the people. Okay. I didn't pay enough attention to figure that out. I just figured it was the lair or something. So yeah, I'm like, you only see it briefly on the screen for a second saying shoot the hell house scoop or whatever. Okay. Yeah. I guess I haven't heard that call. I just, I, I just think of scoop. So, So for the most part, this is PG at most then, in my opinion. I get it. Still a great game. Well, Iron Maiden, I was wondering about Iron Maiden. I actually love the art and the band, but I was curious. And that actually hasn't been a big deal.
    29:19
    But there are some where it's like, ooh, maybe that's a little over the top. Yeah. But going back to the comic book, I think that Deadpool still gets a good bump from the Deadpool movie without having the Deadpool movie. Right. And you can probably say, well, that was a fun theme, and it disconnects from any negative stuff. Yeah. There's a recognizability there, especially on location, too. Right. It's kind of along the lines of Gold Wings. It's not Top Gun. It's Gold Wings. Which is funny, because I never thought of – I never think of Top Gun when I see that game. I think of Wings. You remember Wings on, like, a TV show? Yeah.
    29:56
    What was that, the 90s or whatever? Yeah, it was like the flight out of Nantucket or something. Yeah. All right. Spooky Q&A. Bug and Spooky Luke. Mm-hmm.
    30:08
    Talking about the future of Spooky Pinball, they congratulated or welcomed Ben Heck back to the team and Lucas Prepkey, and also confirmed that Phasma is still going to be doing code on some of their games. Mm-hmm. I don't know. What are your thoughts?
    30:24
    Spooky's in a transition point. And I think they're just trying to find what kind of company they want to be. And it seems that with these moves, they have decided they want to be a small boutique pinball company. Yeah.
    30:44
    Because if you are going to, and I know that there's only one Stern. But if you're going to say, I'm going to be a Stern-type company, then they would have to change things.
    31:03
    Legitimately, they'd have to move. They would have to set up in Chicago or a major city. But Chicago is obviously the best place for pinball talent. And they would have to start looking outside of their circle. But it seems like they're circling the wagons. They're trying to say, no, we are a small boutique company from a small town, and that's what they're going to produce.
    31:27
    There is a ceiling to what they can accomplish with that model. If that works and it's still marketable and you can still sell on that, then great. But that does work as long as your revenue selection and your dynamics are still maintaining a viable company. But if you can't maintain it on that sort of philosophy, then it's not going to work. So far, it has worked.
    31:57
    I'm wondering how it's going to be. We saw a lot of the Halloween and Ultraman immediately sold out.
    32:05
    But you definitely saw some buyer's remorse with some people. Yeah. where they were trying to dump their spot in line or sell it to someone or try to recoup some of the cost. And so I wonder if that will have a hangover effect for their next game or if you think that it's completely disconnected. I think the thing, though, is with Spooky that they have going for them that no other pinball company has is the fact that everything's pretty much pre-order. whereas every other pinball company is is we have to build it first then sell the product right however there are there now there's a danger with that too because there are people who will pre-order and then decide i don't want to wait i'm gonna pull my money and i'm gonna do somewhere else so before it was a i'm locking in a spot and i'm paying some money or it's either a verbal commitment or you don't really have any skin in the game. But when you pre-order and you put a thousand dollars down that, that may affect how they go forward. And that's the thing too. I guess worst case scenario, uh, they back out and they don't, you know, the, the person that pre-ordered backs out of the pre-order spot and just loses the thousand bucks. Right. Loses the earnest money. If you like walk away from a real estate deal, you lose earnest money. Yeah. So I still think that it's a pretty smart business model compared to a lot the other startups. Yeah. And they've certainly made good on, you know, they, they have made the machines. Yep. So it's not like they are taking money and then leaving you with nothing. They are giving you something. Definitely. Um, they did talk about doing another run of America's most haunted. I think it's a bad move. And the reason being is yeah, the, what sold those was the limited run, the 150. Yeah. It's, it's not, it's not an, amazing game. It's a special interest game.
    34:08
    And there's nothing wrong with that. I would say Woe Nelly is also a special interest game. Or Pabst Can Crusher. Or whatever. There is a market. Domino's Pizza. Jetsons. There is a market for a small run game that's not going to be I guess a pinball tournament quality game. Yeah. But I don't even know if on American is Most Haunted that seems more of a proof of concept. They were proving that, hey, we can make a pinball machine outside of Stern. Yeah. And that's really what they proved.
    34:48
    Well, and me personally, I think that when I think of Spooky, their evergreen title to me is Total Nuclear Annihilation. Yeah. And I say go back to that well every time. If you need something to fill the space, hit TNA. I think they're going to sell. People love those games regardless.
    35:07
    I don't see America's Most Haunted. I felt like watching the documentary, and granted, this is years ago. This is, what, seven plus years ago.
    35:16
    They even kind of had a rough time getting those last few out the door, and the last one went up for auction or something like that as number 150 and was paid a lot more money for that one because it was number 150. Right. There's a collector's quality to it. Same thing as Elvira 40. Yeah. Like the 40th anniversary of it. It's not – there's some people that really matters to. Some people it doesn't. It doesn't matter to me, but it really matters to some. So I certainly wish Spooky all the luck in the world, and I always say more pinball is better than less pinball. Yep. and you can't cater to everybody, but you can cater to some, and that's really what they have decided. They are catering to some, which works with their demographic.
    36:08
    Well, and it kind of reminds me, too, a lot of people probably don't remember this. There's been so much turnover going into the hobby. I mean, it seems like there's a lot of new people in the last year and a half or two. So JJP when they originally came out with Hobbit they kind of did the same situation They had the basic edition and then they had like a smog edition Yeah Well okay the smog edition they had a limited edition, standard edition, and then the smog edition was because people were not fans of the layout. Was it the black arrow? It was the artwork. No. And so the smog edition was even the next release where they said, hey, we've changed the artwork, And so people liked it, like the artwork more. Well, and didn't they do a black arrow edition? And then there was a black arrow edition too. There was people tick that they did that because it like watered down their numbers on the limited edition and stuff. Well, and I guess that that's where, um, I I'm, I'm speculating because this is not something that's that important to me. Like a, yes, I have a, a rush. That's a limited edition, but I didn't buy it because it was limited. I couldn't care less if they sold 12,000 of those games. I just wanted all the bells and whistles and I wanted the entire package. And I'm actually really glad because the expression lights are really great and they've had a hard time stocking those. And so premium owners, you know, some of them are considering buying the Led Zeppelin ones and putting them in there because you can still play the game. It's different art, but you can play the game. Yeah. So that's so that that's what's important to me. But there are people who they don't want other games to be made if they have that limited quality, edition, whatever, because they don't want to devalue their game. It's like people having the original Medieval Madness when it was going for $17,000. Yeah. And some people didn't want them to remake it at a lower price because it devalues their game, which it does. just weird growing pains different uh i guess different avenues obviously spooky knows what's best for them and so uh they'll get it figured out yeah that's just our two cents i guess moving on we we alluded to this a little bit earlier but roger sharp is having a movie made about it i guess it's already been made it's ready to go yeah here in october pinball the man who saved the game how crazy is that how you know it's it's awesome that they were able to put something together um because this is it feels a little bit more like a made for tv movie small budget small uh small shooting time but it will definitely tell an interesting part of the story that a lot of people still don't understand and it's even hard for me to wrap my mind around because i know we've talk to Roger and he went through the whole story about how it happened. And it was just so funny that there were, um, there were cities out there, major cities that pinball was banned, but it was available in other places. So it was really kind of like a, um, you know, in, in some counties, you can't sell alcohol. Yeah. It's the same type of thing where it's like it's banned here, but it's available here. And so that was really where it was tipping. It's like, okay, so finally you can have it in New York. You can have it in Chicago when it was proven that it was not just a gambling machine. Now, obviously there's a history of gambling with pinball. It's like there's a history of gambling with sports. We never play dollar games. No, never play dollar games.
    40:01
    Yeah. I'm actually bringing dollars to Chicago because a lot of times what happens is like, anyone got changed for a 10?
    40:10
    So I'm excited to see it. What about you, Josh? I'm excited to see it as well. I think that this is a really cool way to honor Roger Sharp and his legacy in pinball. And it kind of cements that legacy, right? I'm excited to see it. I can't wait to see it. And it's really cool it's being unveiled at a film festival and whatnot too. So the main actor, Mike Fast, faced he's been in plenty of movies west side story the atlantic city story uh panic i mean there's some there's some uh interesting movies here he's a law and order so obviously the guy has uh some good names under his belt and whatnot has been doing it for a while so it's going to be cool to see what he comes up with i guess he was a tony nominated actor too um yeah so in this is It's important when you cast these things that you actually bring people to the table that have the talent. If you look at the success that Marvel has had and they have they elevated what was really considered kind of a B-list genre. Think of all the all the movies that came out pre Iron Man. Yeah, there were a few standouts. There was, you know, Spider-Man was really good with Tobey Maguire, the first one, and X-Men came out that was really good. But before that, they were campy and kind of terrible. Yep. And with them, with Marvel saying, we're going to get some A-list actors who are able to bring more to it. It actually, it does bring more. I watched Thor the other day with my kids, and I kept looking at the acting ability. I'm like, these are really good actors who they got to fill the role. And so having that, it makes it feel a little bit better than your standard Lifetime original movie or Hallmark movie, where you have good looking people that probably could act in a soap opera, but they're really not. They wouldn't be considered A-list actors. Yeah. So I'm excited for this. I can't wait to see it. it's a cool, I guess, feather in the cap of pinball itself too. Yeah. Kind of legitimizes pinball as more than just a toy you bring home, an expensive toy. And it's pretty amazing they were able to film this during the pandemic. Yeah. And that blows me away.
    42:36
    So good for them. Who do you think got to play? I love the art on it too. The art looks very 70s. Oh, yeah. I wonder if Josh Sharpe or Zach Sharpe is going to be in this movie. if they got their own. I really hope. I hope Josh is actually... Okay, you know that old photo where it has the bald dude who's looking down glaring at him? I hope they have Josh Sharp standing there shaved down, bald, and glaring at the Roger Sharp actor while he's doing the shot. That's what I really want. That would be hilarious. Yeah. I'd pay to see that. I would too. All right. We just have a couple more line items on our agenda here before we wrap it up. Stern's next game.
    43:20
    Jeez, yeah. It's going to happen at some point. We're hearing next week with production starting up at the beginning of September is what I'm hearing. That's what you're hearing from all the other podcasts too. So I don't think that's any new news. Well, they announced that they were only going to do two Cornerstones. Yeah. And that August was a target date that they said. Yeah. So that means that, yeah, we're probably looking about that time. Yep. And they seem to have caught up on their backorders. I agree. Except for Godzilla. Apparently, they're still way too backordered on Godzilla. Sure. The original spring release, from my understanding, was supposed to be Venom with Brian and Eddie. but that was actually pushed back it wasn't pushed back just to the next spot my understanding is they've pushed it back to next year and i could be wrong maybe yeah but looking at the available designers with boar coming out with rush which has been the most recent stern release which feels like forever ago yeah and then before that godzilla with elwynn and then mandalorian before that Yeah, if L1's not next, does that leave Jack Danger for his next game? Maybe. Jack came out with, I would say, a very well-received home version of Jurassic Park. I played it with low expectations, and I thought it was a blast to play. It's certainly something that I've recommended to people if they're looking for a cheaper option. I'm like, actually, the Star Wars home pin and the Jurassic Park home pin, it's still pretty fun. Yeah. Like, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it has most of them.
    45:11
    Well, what's weird to me, though, is, like, Jurassic Park came out after Godzilla. But I guess looking at his home pin. It's a simpler game. It is. Yeah, I don't think it takes as much time to design one of those as it would any other cornerstone game, to put it. Yeah. So, yeah, if Eddie's not next, then I guess Jack Danger is up to bat. Yeah, and that's what it seems like. It would be one of those, and I'm interested to see what they come up with. What I'm interested with, we're not hearing a single thing on theme. there's people shooting from the hip in the dark it's it's so weird like i don't know there's no one has any information on this next release and it's supposed to be within a week okay but isn't that fun like yeah it's fun i will say it was fun like that was the thing that shocked me about elwyn's um you know infinity quest yeah where it was like that i found out the night before basically. And I was like, that's like, and it was still a rumor. Well, actually we think it's that theme. I'm like, really? Cause they already did an Avengers.
    46:25
    So maybe, but. Well, we did, we did have an inclination that would probably be Marvel. But then again, how much does that leave? They've had 23 movies in the last two decades. And they could do so many things. I'm still waiting for my black Panther pen. Yeah. Well, the black Panther movie comes out here. Two months. I think people are pushing for a Muppets pinball machine. Do you see that happening from Spurn? Okay, give me your level of excitement on Muppets as a theme. I think it could be fun. I think Muppets is a great family theme. The problem is I think I went next level with my pinball playing because I need the game to be fun to play. I definitely want the theme to be good. but I think Godzilla's taught me that if the gameplay is nice and the themes integrated great and the code is amazing I don't know if I really care what the theme is anymore so long as it's something I somewhat resonate with that can come into my house obviously I'm not going to want a playboy coming into my house I love Ninja Turtles it was a good game but it left for Godzilla took its place and Ninja Turtles was the my Grail theme.
    47:46
    Zombie Yeti did the artwork, and it's amazing. I love the artwork. I still have some of the artwork in my house. That's another reason I got rid of Turtles.
    47:56
    The code, I feel like, was a little lacking on Turtles. That was too hard for me. That's why it left. I never felt like I could play with my skill level. I didn't think I could play a good, a fun game with it. And I'm like, I would rather play different games. Yeah. Well, and I had gotten close to Cowabunga and I know that I had it still when they did the code update that you, you could get neutrino pizza party and it would give you one of the last spots for Cowabunga because that triple mondo jackpot is just ridiculous. Yeah. And I mean, we had call him a cow pine over and he's playing it and I'm like, I want to see Cowabunga go for it. And when he can't get it, and he's hitting the shot consistently, he's not doing it fast enough, you know you've got too hard of a game. Yeah.
    48:49
    And that's the balance too, right? Because people hated monsters because it was too easy. And I would say Toy Story has gotten some flack because high-level players can get to the wizard mode in the first 10 games. Yeah.
    49:05
    I guarantee I would still have fun on the game. I think that's where I'm at right now. If it's Muppets, awesome. I want to see the layout. I want to flip it. I want to see where the code's at. Yeah, Muppets, it feels – it's kind of the level of theme like Hot Wheels for me. I grew up with the Muppets. I remember the Muppets being on TV. Yeah. And it was fun, and yes, we loved it, and then Jim Henson passed away. And it just seemed like culture had moved on. and yeah they've had a few uh a few other things they had a few muppets movies in you know in the 80s and they even had like my my wife still loves the muppets christmas carol that's her favorite one with michael cain yeah with michael cain and then they had the muppets with uh with jason something uh jason siegel siegel yep yep from uh yeah and so that that had a big hit but then it kind of like it seems that they're not culturally relevant enough to get a game the theme doesn't really do much for me well i know that didn't disney just buy muppets too and part of their acquisitions they've been well okay they've actually had muppets for a long time okay yeah they've actually had it for a long time and they haven't been able to to replicate the magic that jim henson had it's it's the same type of thing as like the dark crystal the you know i was even talking to mark silk about this because the dark crystal has an amazing visual presence but it's um the new series while i thought was interesting it didn't capture the same magic yeah which is why they only had one season of it because it was super expensive yeah but it's uh muppets and okay i and it's kind of like wu-tang clan for me it seems very niche okay so speaking of rap rap uh pins then you you think that uh who do you think would be best to go with first then because but no ice ice ice baby multi-ball I don't know the challenge is with rock bands there are some ways that you can do things that are even rock bands that could be considered controversial you can still dance around a little bit yeah they made a Guns N' Roses one obviously and they have an adult and a non-adult mode with Eminem how does his music translate to a non-adult mode? That's basically what you're getting at, right? You're asking about Eminem as a possibility for a rap? I think Eminem he is the biggest rap artist of all time I mean it's just I had no idea how much he sold it's not my it's not in my wheelhouse and so I'm not I don't listen to Eminem but that would be a little challenging just because with music if you blur out a word here and there it still goes through it but with rapping your voice is the music yeah I mean that is and so it seems like there's a lot of stuff in there that's not going to be not going to fly with a lot of audiences I guess you could just go the route of this is what it is and it's explicit regardless it could be it could be i think at that point that you can't have stern make it because it's not going to be commercially viable enough to to sell enough units well it could be a very niche market yeah i mean it's uh it's the same thing with primus i mean primus has some really interesting songs um that would be considered offensive to many.
    53:08
    I would say Eminem. But, Kay, how many rap artists have been able to have broad appeal that don't have adult language? I was going to say Beastie Boys, but they do have adult language. Not as over the top. Integral to their music. Could you do a Snoop Dogg game? Probably not. Could you do a Dr. Dre game?
    53:36
    probably not probably not could you do like it's hard because it's like you i agree with you it's a very niche you can do mc hammer it's a territory it's a territory yeah i guess you do mc hammer it's a territory that a lot of us have never it's never been explored in pinball yeah if you go off of what zach many said you can't really count weird alice rap because it's not no it it's a that that's a um a dave and buster's game it's a fun game for that look for the location where you're like hey this is a fun theme and it has it has some great shots we like playing it but um yeah weird al's not but weird al's also super safe i mean come on like it you how many people out there don't like weird al yeah true and they may think he's childish but it's not like they're it's not like that's a no-go theme and there's when you're you know Eminem first album there a reason why it was explicit because a lot of the themes that he rapped about were pretty over the top I think if you going to go with a rap a rap pinball machine I think your best bet probably Jersey Jack pinball And the reason I say that, because they did Guns N' Roses already. Well, they seem, they're starting to seem to get this balance of like one game's family friendly, one game's not. Because the rumor is, is the next one's Godfather. That is not a family friendly appropriate title. No. So is Eric just going to do the explicit stuff now? and Richie's not. You know, it makes you wonder if that's going to be their bounce back and forth now.
    55:11
    Because it's starting to, I mean, we've got Wonka and then we have GNR and then we had Toy Story and now we supposedly have Godfather. So it's like, I could see that being a bounce back and forth for those titles. It could be. And like I talked about with Spooky, finding that niche audience that could be the niche audience that a smaller manufacturer and let's face it, Jersey Jack is a smaller manufacturer.
    55:42
    Would that be a title that they would be interested in? I don't know. Maybe. When they did Guns N' Roses, I'm like, well,
    55:53
    I know there are other factors that go into it. There was already Guns N' Roses pinball machine and Slash likes pinball. I don't know if Eminem likes pinball but he certainly released his greatest hits which has the pinball back glass and it's also on the back side it had the flippers with the drain and everything too which is weird to me because if you've never looked at Eminem's stuff like album cover art before it doesn't scream pinball it's very basic curtain call it's him with the curtain slightly open with a spotlight on him yeah uh they're just um i'm trying to think what the other one is there's a handful of them they're all they're all very basic so for something like this i feel like this was pushing out very far from the usual safe wheelhouse of the artwork that he's done before yeah but it's funny it's funny a rap artist i guess it is eminem releases album artwork and the next thing you know all these speculations start flying. You gotta love pinball, right? According to his Wikipedia page, there's, there was 32 million in the U S but there was over two 20 worldwide.
    57:06
    That's, that's getting up next to Beatles and Elvis. That's crazy. Well, I will say I, I found it interesting when I went to Africa, like nobody knew who the Beatles were, but everybody knew who Tupac was. That's weird. I didn't know that. It's, it was really interesting so that's funny well moving on let's let's our last topic is the cgc topper if you didn't catch it flipping out did a live stream with wyan wyan ryan white of cgc and he brought over a cactus canyon le with the topper and they even showed the topper on screen they did their own just like here's the mode uh zach was nice enough to clip it if you don't want to watch the whole stream you can just type in like cgc topper into youtube and you can check it out it right it reminds me very much of hogan's alley do you remember that game from the nes oh absolutely uh this looks like an analog version of that and that's really really cool what they've done with leds and and bart and all that stuff um is this really what we're waiting on though for this game uh that's what's calling this is the topper i have such mixed mixed feelings about this game because it's not the same level as their other games like when it comes to the original product the original attack from mars was great the original medieval madness was great The original Monster Bash was great. The original Cactus Canyon was unfinished.
    58:40
    And so with the rarity of it, then it elevated the price probably out of proportion to the gameplay. Okay.
    58:53
    And so my interest level in this game is to be determined. Yes. However, when they announced it at Chicago and they announced pricing, the LEs immediately, at least the spots, immediately sold out.
    59:10
    However, how many LEs do you know that are out there? They haven't shipped yet. Exactly. That's my point. We're getting up on 10 months after people committed to buying this game. and Stern has released they're a machine okay Stern's a machine fine but Toy Story has come out I'm sure American Penn all these other companies they're still available out there and people are like well maybe I want something now and maybe this isn't as my interest level has waned and that's the same thing that happens with a lot of games where there's a reason why they don't announce things so early when they're waiting for availability to sell because it does get cold yeah well what's what's your thought how interested are you in buying this game and i have two remakes and i would totally own monster bash yeah my thought process is i'm thinking this game until the lyman sheets josh sharp code comes out for it, it might be a little too simplistic for what people are looking for right now. A little too easy. I mean, look at Toy Story. I mean, that game is getting slammed right now because the price far outweighs the game. Well, yeah, and I think Toy Story is mainly a price issue. I actually think Toy Story would be a great game for in the $7,000-$8,000 range. But I think they went too high. On a mass appeal game, I guess. If they're trying to sell limited quantities, then I think the price is right. But with Cactus Canyon, I think that we're just all starving for a new pinball machine right now, and interest has kind of dropped off on a lot of these games that have been revealed this last year. I could be wrong. I'm not a distributor. I'm not a manufacturer. I mean, they could obviously tell you more.
    61:14
    But with Cactus Canyon, I just I've had an opportunity to buy one for months now because the SE so long as you don't want the topper, it's in stock you know I don't know if that's where I'm at with my collection anymore I don't know if I want to play Cactus Canyon and be able to easily get to the wizard mode and then feel like I've seen everything in a month and then have to turn around and sell this expensive game it's a great game, don't get me wrong I think that but there's less stability, when you buy a game like i i don't play my games as much as um a lot of collectors i know i i'm i'm lucky to get an hour here or there uh and so games can last in my collection a long time yeah but i was just talking to you know to my friend who's local he actually he bought my spider-man uh his name is Garrett, he's out here and he buys and sells games like every two or three months.
    62:14
    And he, it's a revolving door for him. And I'm just like, I don't, I just don't have that kind of energy because I, a lot of times I don't feel I've really seen much of a game in that time. I'm running out of that energy. I'm actually looking to start moving some of my older Bally Williams. Yeah. Cause I want more games that I look at and go, yeah, I want to turn that on and play it. or even if it sets for a couple months and I haven't played it, I look at it and go, yeah, I still want to explore that game some more, where I don't look at it and go, yeah, I've already explored that game all the way to the end. I've got other things I can play. And I have Area 51 at my home, which I've got to the end a lot, because it's easy when you can just keep hitting the quarters. But it's been a long time since I've played that, unless someone's over. Same with me. uh my my son grayson my my autistic three-year-old we have the teenage mutant turtles arcade cabinet yeah that has the arcade game and turtles in time yeah and he that's his jam right now he's three years old though yeah but that arcade cabinets three quarters of the size of a regular one yeah and it was 400 bucks or whatever it was versus a pinball machine that i remember right now yeah you know 2500 easily i could have it sold tomorrow for 2500 oh yeah the average is 32 i mean if i if i want to get rid of johnny monica i could probably get rid of it in the next couple of hours and that's 3500 for that one and that that's being conservative considering the ads that are on pin side right now yeah um i just it's hard when i guess going back to your Cactus Canyon. It weirds me out that just the toppers are selling this game.
    63:56
    Well, but that tells you that people are more interested in the entire package of the game. With those older games, we've seen them.
    64:08
    And so if you want to pay that much money, you want to take it to the next level. Guess whose games aren't selling by their toppers?
    64:18
    Stern's. Stern, because I have four pinball machines from Stern that I'm waiting for toppers to be released on them. Yeah, true. And so this is going back to Mandalorian, Rush, Godzilla. None of those have toppers. Yeah. And again, it's fine. The topper should be the extra. It shouldn't be paramount to the marketability of the game. But it's obvious that this one is paramount to the marketability of the game. Yeah. Well, and here's the weird part to me. Maybe it's because I bought Monster Bash, so I remember the whole timeline of this. But they released in October with Monster Bash.
    65:04
    I got in on one of the last ones. And then because I had Attack from Mars, I wanted the matching number, and they were nice enough to say, okay, we'll do that.
    65:15
    And so I was one of the ones that got the matching number, and it was like January, February rolled around. We might have been into March. And I called up the distributor and said, where's my game at? And he's like, it's shipping. And so I finally got it and I was like, awesome. And I was, and, uh, but as I started, you know, I got it all set up and everything. And I called back the distributor. I'm like, I got it. And he's like, you're one of the lucky few. Uh, they're only doing the, the number match for the Ellie's right now. And it was almost a year later until people that had bought Ellie's that more number match with actually hitting their games. This isn't uncommon to me that CGC a year later the LE still hasn't come out. We're 10 months, like you said.
    65:58
    They're rumoring it's going to start shipping the next two. This is the same thing that happened with Monster Bash. I don't remember with Attack from Mars. I don't remember with Medieval Madness. Attack from Mars was a delay. My friend got it before I got mine.
    66:12
    It certainly is different. I'm hoping that the delays don't mean anything else other than just typical support and supply. Sorry, support. Did I really say that? You said support, yeah. Yeah. A parts issue or a supply chain issue.
    66:34
    So I'm hoping that it's just that. It's not something else under the hood. Yeah. I agree. I think CGC, on a quality level, is producing some of the best quality games. You look under the hood on those games, and they are amazing.
    66:53
    When I had my Attack from Mars, I was a little nervous because that circuit board is huge underneath there. They just printed all the LEDs. It was like, we're putting one massive circuit board underneath.
    67:03
    The couple of years I had my Attack from Mars, I loved it. I had one issue. the solder had broken on one of the pop bumpers soldered it back on had it done in 95 minutes only issue I ever had oh and then I guess with Monster Bash the metal was not spread far enough for the creature shot that's just an adjustment thing you loosen the screw you move the bracket you tighten it up I mean those are not problems in my opinion because I'm doing that on my sterns I had multiple adjustments on Avengers for the wireform so the ball wouldn't fall off when it was coming across.
    67:42
    In my opinion, CGC is doing something right when it comes to the quality of product that they're building. Sure. I think they need to address the pace. Yep.
    67:52
    I still think they could be a top contender in the pinball hierarchy. I don't know what you call it. Would you call it a hierarchy?
    68:03
    Well, marketability. Maybe, yeah. the top the top manufacturers let's put it that way i think cgc is so uh can easily be on the top they have a good reputation for quality yeah but everyone else is suffering at pace right now too so you got anything else for us scott no i think that's it i'm just excited to see everybody in chicago and yeah no this will this will be a lot of fun i'm really excited that we can support your something that means something to you, even though you don't directly benefit because you're doing the fundraiser not for your therapy. You're actually doing it for the location, which is great. So I'm super excited about that. And I love hearing the feedback from everybody. So that's a lot of fun. Me too. And I'm excited because this early intervention with autism is really taking off and there's there's so many families that are having a positive influence in their life because of it and so i just i want to be a part of it i i firmly believe like you know there there's life skills that my son has learned that i could have never taught him and other people should experience that they should be able to feel like their child's life isn't stinted because of their diagnosis give them their best life right other than that I think that's it I hope next time when we go to record we'll have a new Stern out we'll be able to talk about the Muppets apparently let's do the Muppets do your guess do you think it's Muppets or do you think it's something else no I it's either I think it's either 50-50 I think they either decide to do Venom with Todd McFarlane art or something else. And really I could go either way on it. This is going to sound really weird, but I actually think, uh, I don't know why I think this, but maybe it's a Batman pinball machine. Really? Another new Batman because of the, the recent movie. I could be wrong. I could be entirely wrong. Wow. That, that, that's, uh, that, that would be an interesting, but I'm going to build. Why not? Cause, because Muppets sound just as plausible as Batman right now.
    70:23
    I don't know. I would say Batman maybe I think they would time that with the next movie coming out. True.
    70:31
    Alright, well if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com We are also on all the socials at Loser Kid Pinball on Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, Instagram. You know you want to hit us up. We appreciate those that have reached out that are positive, massive influence with helping with everything. If you do want to help with flipping the script and you feel like there's nothing you can do, at the very least, share the posts with your friends. Talk about it with your friends and family.
    71:02
    Just even sharing that, sharing flipping the script with others helps flipping the script. I guess that wraps us up for today, Scott. Yeah, it's great. We'll see you guys in two weeks. See you in two weeks.
    71:45
    Shut up and sit down. Thank you. you