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Episode 109 - A Casual Look Back at 2025 w/ Megan the Watergirl

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 22m·analyzed·Jan 12, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Casual pinball player Megan reviews 2025 releases with focus on layout, art, and vibe—no industry knowledge.

Summary

Wedgehead Pinball Podcast Episode 109 features casual player Megan reviewing 2025 pinball releases from a non-enthusiast perspective. Unlike typical pinball media dominated by obsessive hobbyists, this episode captures feedback from someone who plays ~1-2 times weekly without following industry news. Megan evaluates games using a layout/art/vibe rating system, offering valuable market insight on what casual location players actually want.

Key Claims

  • Megan gave D&D (Stern) 13/15 overall (layout 4/5, art 4/5, vibe 5/5), praising the storytelling and fantasy execution

    high confidence · Direct rating provided during discussion; she loves the game and rejoined a D&D group partly due to the pinball machine

  • Megan gave Evil Dead (Spooky) 11.5/15 (layout 3/5, art 3/5, vibe 5/5), criticizing oversaturated colors but praising horror-comedy tone alignment

    high confidence · Direct rating; she dislikes the drop targets and skill shot design but appreciates the movie atmosphere

  • Megan prefers muted, hand-painted art styles from early 1980s games over modern oversaturated color packages

    high confidence · Multiple statements about preferring minimal, classic art direction; both hosts agree on this aesthetic preference

  • Recent pinball art is too busy and oversaturated; games should look like single comic book covers, not full comic books

    medium confidence · Alex's opinion expressed during discussion of design philosophy; Megan independently echoes this sentiment

  • D&D Stern Insider integration is the first game where it feels like a necessity rather than optional feature

    high confidence · Both hosts agree; Megan created account specifically for character progression tracking

  • Casual location players represent a 'silent majority' in pinball who don't follow news, tournament results, or designer credits

    high confidence · Alan states this is insight from operating Wedgehead; valuable market observation about core location clientele

  • Evil Dead skill shot is poorly designed and untimed, frustrating for casual players who expect 'gimme' skill shots

    high confidence · Megan specifically criticizes the drop target skill shot as un-timeable and confusing

  • Evil Dead's color palette doesn't match the actual 1980s movie aesthetic, which appears more muted

    medium confidence · Megan watched Evil Dead 2 specifically because of the pinball release; noted color mismatch to film

Notable Quotes

  • “What you don't see a lot of online is opinions from anyone outside of that demographic though... those women are all nerds. They're all just as lost in the pinball sauce as me and Alan are.”

    Alex (host, Waterboy) @ Early intro — Frames the episode's purpose: getting non-nerd casual player perspective rather than another enthusiast take

  • “To any industry people listening... this is probably the single most valuable episode of the show we will ever do. I get to see it every day as an operator. We have so many people that play pinball that couldn't name the designer, couldn't name the programmer, couldn't tell you what the news and rumors are.”

    Alan (host, Wedgehead owner) @ Mid-intro — Articulates core value proposition: insight into silent majority casual/location players who drive actual revenue

  • “I love Dungeons and Dragons... I will constantly go back and play it.”

    Megan @ D&D discussion start — Strong endorsement of D&D from casual player perspective; game achieved crossover appeal

  • “The art style is kind of like it's cute it's fun but it's just kind of like the colors are very like in your face a little bit... oversaturated colors... I feel like that would be more muted if it was dnd.”

    Megan @ D&D art discussion — Independent critique of modern pinball art trends; echoes host's recurring complaint about color saturation

  • “I want it to look like a comic book cover and not like they put 50 pages of a comic book on the game. I want hand painted back glass. I want line art on the play field... basically describing No Fear.”

    Alex @ Art design philosophy discussion — Articulates specific aesthetic preference for minimalist vs. busy modern design; references classic game as ideal

  • “Stern Insider makes a hundred percent of sense for this game... the first one where it actually feels like a necessity. If you're not logging in on D&D it feels like you're playing a mini game.”

    Megan @ D&D Insider discussion — Validates D&D's integration design as thematically appropriate; first time she's found Insider genuinely valuable

Entities

MeganpersonAlanpersonAlex (Waterboy)personWedgehead Pinball PodcastorganizationWedgehead Pinball BarorganizationDungeons & Dragons (Stern 2025)gameEvil Dead (Spooky 2025)gameStern PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyConnorperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Podcast listener Connor provides premium location opportunity for in-depth game testing; indicates community's collaborative approach to content creation and game evaluation

    medium · Megan: 'Connor's House... he has an immaculate copy as you would expect from anything Connor owns' and they visited for extended Evil Dead gameplay session

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Independent confirmation that modern pinball art is oversaturated and too busy; casual player Megan echoes hosts' recurring design criticism without prompting

    high · Megan unprompted states colors are 'in your face' and 'oversaturated' on both D&D and Evil Dead; directly mirrors Alex's expressed design philosophy

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Casual players develop unexpected mastery on specific mechanics through confidence-building experiences; lane changes are particular strength for Megan across multiple games

    medium · Host notes: 'Megan fucking never misses lane changes... Steve Ritchie's contribution to pinball... 100% ingrained in you.' She learned from Skateball and applies across games.

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Early 1980s game art direction (No Fear style: hand-painted backglass, line art playfield, stenciled cabinet) is preferred by both enthusiasts and casual players over modern busy designs

    medium · Alex expresses preference for minimalist layered design; Megan independently validates this without knowing his bias; both cite aesthetic and playability concerns

  • $

    market_signal: Casual/location player perspective is underrepresented in pinball media despite being core market driver; episode frames this as 'single most valuable' content from operator perspective

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.247

0:00
I fly like paper, get high like planes. If you catch me at the border, I got visas in my name. If you come around here, I'll make a more day. I get one down in a second if you wait. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the World's greatest pinball podcast, the Wedget Pinball Podcast. I'm your host, Alan, one of the owners of Wedget Pinball Bar in Portland, Oregon. I'm joined in the basement studio of my co-host, Alex the Waterboy. How are you doing? Oh, I'm doing good today. I'm doing very good because this is a very special episode of the Wedget Pinball Podcast. As listeners of the show might have noticed by now, we don't generally talk about new game releases. There's a few reasons for that. We want the show to stay timeless, so we try to avoid topical discussions. We figure it doesn't really provide much value. Why would you need to hear our opinions on the latest Stern when you could just go to your local arcade, form your own opinion for a dollar? And maybe most notably, we figure there's enough other people covering the subject and especially enough other pinball obsessed middle-aged white guys covering the subject. What you don't see a lot of online is opinions from anyone outside of that demographic though. There's some great women content creators out there for sure, like Erin Winnick, Erica of Erica's Pinball Journey, Pirate Princess Jess. But, and I say this endearingly, as I am one myself, those women are all nerds. They're all just as lost in the pinball sauce as me and Alan are. So instead of ranking the games of 2025 ourselves, or even talking to one of our fellow pinball nerds about them, what we're doing is bringing on my lovely wife, Megan, the water girl, to discuss all of the big releases of the past year and provide some thoughts from a casual player's point of view. Megan, are you excited? And how are you doing? I am doing great. this is so much more serious than I was expecting it to be.
2:25
I mean, you see us do this like every, you know, couple of weeks. You know, you guys just come in and I see Alan and we just, we just chat and then you guys come down here and you do your thing. I've never been in the studio before. So this is my first introduction to the studio. Yeah. Everyone gets really impressed when they, you know, when they see like the vertical TV with the outline on it. I think that's what really sells. That's like a Wendy's menu, dude. We got Wendy's technology here. So would you say you're doing great? Oh, I am doing particularly great because it's my turn to plug the coffee fundraiser. Yay!

  • “Evil Dead... I just want everyone to know especially our regular listeners in the discord... it's funny that she's echoing the same sentiments.”

    Alex @ Evil Dead setup — Host notes that Megan independently arrived at his ongoing critique about color saturation—suggests genuine design issue

  • “I hate those groovy little targets on the side... even if the most of the targets would get down the ball would just get hung up over there... and the fact that that's the skill shot and there's no way to time the skill shot at all.”

    Megan @ Evil Dead layout criticism — Specific mechanical complaint about drop target placement and untimed skill shot; suggests poor casual player UX

  • “It's very campy... The game fits the vibe of the movie... you're not like oh my god that was a terrifying experience you're like no that's funny.”

    Megan @ Evil Dead vibe assessment — Despite layout/art criticisms, she validates Evil Dead's tonal alignment with franchise

  • “I'm so picky when it comes to a pinball lineup... I will play any game once but... there's just always going to be different games that I go back to.”

    Megan @ Evil Dead replay discussion — Reveals location player behavior: sample all games but return only to preferred machines—suggests competition for plays

    • Stern Insiderproduct
    No Feargame
    Getawaygame
    Skateballgame
    Twilight Zonegame
    Creature from the Black Lagoongame
    Frontiergame
    Sea Witchgame
    Big Gamegame
    Lord of the Rings (Stern)game
    81 Arcadeorganization
    Erin Winnickperson
    Erica (Erica's Pinball Journey)person
    Pirate Princess Jessperson

    high · Alan: 'We have so many people that play pinball that couldn't name the designer... but they show up, they play a little pinball... that's the silent majority in this hobby'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Casual location players sample all new games but demonstrate strong preferences for specific titles; games must 'click' through repeated play to earn long-term location plays

    high · Megan: 'I will play any game once but... there's just always going to be different games that I go back to.' Cites Getaway as example of game that initially disliked but grew to love.

  • $

    market_signal: Stern Insider mechanic appears to be working as intended for D&D: casual player created account and actively uses it for progression tracking despite technical indifference

    high · Megan created browser-based account, saved QR code, and regularly logs in for character progress—validates integration necessity for fantasy RPG themes

  • ?

    community_signal: D&D's thematic integration inspired real-world behavior change: Megan joined D&D group after game release, influenced by pinball experience (though not entirely attributable to it)

    medium · Host confirms: 'she joined a D&D group. Because of the pinball machine. It is not... It's not 100% because of the pinball machine.' Friends had been asking for years; game was tipping point.

  • ?

    product_strategy: D&D's integration of progression system creates psychological engagement hook absent from other games; casual players notice and value this distinction

    high · Megan: 'If you're not logging in on D&D it feels like you're playing a mini game... felt like a necessity.' First time she recognized Insider as actually necessary rather than gimmicky.

  • ?

    product_concern: Evil Dead drop target skill shot design is frustrating for casual players; untimed, confusing mechanic with poor ball control reduces accessibility

    high · Megan criticizes skill shot extensively; notes targets hang up ball and mechanism is untimeable; contrasts negatively with 'gimme' skill shots on D&D and other games

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Evil Dead scored lower (11.5/15) than expected despite strong vibe rating; color palette criticism suggests growing casual player awareness of art design issues

    medium · Megan: 'I'm giving the vibe a five out of five' but art only 3/5. Hosts anticipated needing to 'adjust' scoring scale downward if Evil Dead is lowest score.

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Evil Dead's visual execution doesn't align with source material aesthetic; game's vibrant colors clash with 1980s film's muted, low-budget look

    medium · Megan watched Evil Dead 2 specifically for pinball context; noted color mismatch: 'The movies don't look like that... it's an old movie'

    • 3:04
    If you're a fan of this show and want to show your support, you can head to ko-fi.com slash Wedget Podcast and give Alan and Alex a few dollars.
    3:17
    They appreciate the support. They say they're going to go to Colorado one day. We'll see if that ever happens. And you'll also get an invite to their private Discord, where I'm told they're always chopping it up with fans of the show. That's true. We are chopping it up. We're always chopping it up. Man, you nailed that. You nailed the coffee plug.
    3:36
    This episode is going to do numbers. So people have been trying to get you on the show for a while because we name drop you a lot. We thought this would be a fun subject. Me and Alan are always so curious to hear your thoughts on the newest games. And people do always kind of want to hear our thoughts on the newest games. But like I touched on, it's not something that we really feel is worth an episode. But this is. So before we get into that, though, before we get into Megan ranking the hottest games of 2025, we're going to do a little background, some quick questions here. How much pinball would you say you play, Megan? Hours worth or... I don't know. Whatever. What's your best way? Like, how many times a week do you play pinball? I mean, usually once a week. Once a week? Do you play the games in the, because we're obviously here in the studio, you know, we have a handful of games in the house. Do you play the games in the house at all? Never.
    4:27
    So you play once a week and it's almost exclusively, it's not almost exclusively at Wedgehead. But typically on location. Yeah, we usually go to Wedgehead once a week and then we might play pinball at another bar somewhere in town. Yeah, yeah. So maybe I guess twice. Yeah, once and a half a week. Yeah. I would guess you go out and play some pinball. Couple hours, right? If we're at Wedge, we stay there for a few hours. If we're at a different bar, we might just play. Well, it depends. If we're at a bar and they've got Sea Witch, we'll sit there and play for quite a while. Yes. If they've got just like a Godzilla or something, we might play like one game. More the solid states, the older games, we usually spend more time on, I would say. Yeah. What would you say are some of your favorite games, not counting any releases from this year, just to avoid spoilers, if there's any relevant. But what would you say are some of your favorites? Some of my favorites? Well, you know I love a Frontier. Yeah. Frontier is solid.
    5:21
    Okay. Some people would say Frontier is the greatest game of all time. Some would. Megan would be one of them. Yes, that would be me. That would be me.
    5:29
    I don't know. I love, what else do I love? I can name them probably better than you. Probably, yes. Because I would say, I mean, for a long time, Big Game was one of them until we got one in the house and then you quit playing it. But yeah, you always want to play Frontier. You always want to play Mystic if you see a Mystic. You really like, as far as DMDs, you really like Creature from the Black Lagoon? I really do like Creature, yes. That's the one you're always like forcing me to play. Yes, I also love a Twilight Zone. Yeah, yeah, she does like Twilight Zone a shocking amount. Megan put up a score on a Twilight Zone, like a 750. On Twilight Zone, during a Howdy Partner, she beat every other team by herself that week.
    6:09
    And that is when I started to love Twilight Zone. I was like, that's the origin story for why she likes it. Well, because ever since then, I've been able to crush it. Yeah. Well, it's like once you get that confidence, you know. And then lastly, what is your IFPA ranking? Never played in a tournament. Okay, good. So just for context, I think that kind of explains Megan skews towards playing more classic games. Creature is kind of an outlier amongst the games we listed. I'm sure if we dug harder, there might be some other kind of friendly games. Because I guess that game is not. You also will play all the newest games as they come out. You play all the new Sterns. And you played every game released this year, I think. Yeah, which is kind of... You've actually played more games than I've played. There's some of these that I haven't played yet. Well, that's just the benefit of me dragging her everywhere. I've got to check it out. Yeah, you've got to check it out. I've got to check it out. And you're definitely not a tournament player, and you definitely aren't keeping up with news outside of what I tell you. You're not going out of your way. It's not like you're following Stern on social media, right? Okay. I just kind of wanted to give some background, provide some context here. And some of the background for longtime listeners of the show will know, Alex has said, Megan is actually the one that got Alex into playing pinball. Yeah, that is true. Megan's always been very casually interested in pinball. I have always been casually interested. 81 Arcade in South Dakota, when it opened, I just started kind of like going there and hanging out. and it's a very very cool um barcade with a lot of Japanese games and that's what I was what I still I'm still into Japanese arcade games but Megan really just liked playing pinball and so we would play pinball together and that is 100 probably the only time I would play pinball you know when I started going there I would not go out of my way to play by myself it was also the mall in Sioux Falls we would go to that arcade mall yeah but that was kind of after we started you know because by then we knew how to play like multiplayer games yeah yeah that's true yeah so So, you know, that's why I was like, I think we kind of started playing on that Stern track at 81. You know, Lord of the Rings. It gets me every time. Yeah. I forgot the Lord of the Rings at the mall, man. That thing was a piece of shit. Dude, it was like there was this mall arcade and it was bleak. It was like a fluorescent light overhead, like knockoff kid arcade. It's not like it was even like a Chuck E. Cheese level arcade. It was like bad. Just a bad, low budget arcade. But they had a couple of pins. And so, you know, us being us would go there every once in a while. Just pretty funny. I think they still have a couple of pins. They probably have the same couple pens. What we're here to do today, the reason why we want to have you on the show, Megan, is because you don't really represent the average person talking about pinball online. Definitely not the average person recording a pinball podcast online. But we think that you're a good representation of the silent majority in this hobby, the people out there playing pinball but are not entirely consumed by it. You know, and to any industry people listening, and I know you're out there, this is probably... We know they're listening. We know we have lots of listeners in Chicago. This is probably the single most valuable episode of the show we will ever do, but I get to see it every day as an operator, owner of a location. We have so many people that play pinball that couldn't name the designer, couldn't name the programmer, couldn't tell you what the news and rumors are of the new games, but they show up, they play a little pinball, and then they don't think about pinball until the next time they're out playing pinball. Yeah. and so we wanted to talk to megan specifically for that reason get some more insight into the new games of this year from your perspective a normal person perspective very very casual perspective this is the closest we could find on the show to a normal person yeah and she still played every single game that came out this year what's very funny qualifier for this list for the ranking very funny is just that like like you said you play once or maybe twice a week but like that's it that's the level of interest you have fun and then and then it stops she listens if she's cooking dinner i sit there and i relay whatever like that day's pinball news is to her so she gets a lot of it via osmosis you know just by being around me it's absorbed into her but yeah i guess that's really all we needed to do to provide the background and the best part of this episode is that it's in your hands now i have no idea i don't even know the order of the games how you're going to present are you presenting the chronological order or is it just as you thought of them when you were trying to make the list um i think it was just kind of how i thought of them as i made the list i assumed that you would just say a game and then i could just go off i think this is kind of chronological how i have them listed here the first game that came out in 2025 dungeons and dragons by stern what do you think about dungeons and dragons maggot i love dungeons and try again it's it's not a surprise to alex now and because i will constantly go back and play it but okay so i did make my own like kind of ranking system here a little bit there's megan there's like there's some good stuff going on like this yeah what's the first category how are we going to rank okay so my first category is the layout what do you think of the layout the layout so I gave it a four out of five wow I think the shots are fun I feel like they're not like super easy like gimmies like they can be I would say it's arguably yeah it's a pretty difficult shooter yeah like it can be kind of hard but it's just like sometimes you just get into that flow and you can just nail them and it's great and sometimes it's just you are just missing all the shots and so I think that makes it a lot of fun I think there's a lot of variety on the layout so that's also a good time not just like what do you think about the little fismo shot in the kick out that is why is it a four out of five because the gate has betrayed you so many times that gate has just fucking killed me yeah yeah and then it's like that is probably the biggest thing to me is it's like even i mean those gates can have problems but even when they don't have problems they can just give mean weird rejects and then the kick out of there is supposed to feed to the magnet to feed to the flipper nice because it's it's kind of hard to feed that upper flipper and so if that's not all working well it sucks it makes the game a lot harder but yes so that that's the one fallback on the layout okay personally what's your next category next category is the art which i also gave it a four out of five i feel like i mean it's dnd so and it feels do you think it executes well on the dnd theme i feel like it does execute really well the reason i gave it four out of five instead of five out of five is just because like the art style is kind of like it's cute it's fun but it's just kind of like the colors are very like in your face a little bit so interesting like oversaturated colors you know yeah i think it would be more muted if it was dnd Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. I'm surprised because it feels pretty brown to me. But then I guess it doesn't because it's like the dragon dudes. Some of it feels a little cartoonish. Does it feel brown to you compared to the other Stern packages? We're doing this because it's like I'm thinking of this compared to like X-Men. Yeah. But then also the play field, now that I'm thinking about it, has the big blue cube and the bright red dragon. Yeah. So like some of those colors, it's just like, I don't know. I feel like that's very much like pinball just in general. Recently, like the last couple of years, the art is just like oversaturated, I think personally. So it's just can be a little bit much, especially like it's funny because I'll look at like a back glass or I look at a play field and I'll be like, oh, that's cool. And then I'll take a step back and I'll look at the whole cabinet and I'm like, OK, that's just a little much. so like when you sometimes when you take a step back and you look at it as a whole it can be a lot the argument that i hear for the really busy and really like kind of crank to 11 art packages on the games is that it's like oh it's supposed to you know be visually interesting if you own it for like you're always supposed to be looking and finding new little things okay yeah that makes sense if you're like i'm playing devil's advocate because i'm i'm with you i like more minimal games I like it when they just kind of have like a vibe and it's not full of Easter eggs and it's not just like jam packed. I want it. I want the game to me to look like a comic book cover and not like they put 50 pages of a comic book on the game. I want hand painted back glass. I want line art on the play field screened on. And then I want stencils on the cabinet in my perfect world, like different layers of fidelity. Yeah, like, you know, you know what I mean? Like basically describing no fear. a perfect art package well they're not stencils they're not stencils on the side but yeah it's you know like to me it's like those classic kind of valleys and sterns from the early 80s that megan loves so much i think those games are beautiful because you get the hand-painted super detailed back glass you get less it's more of like comic book kind of flat art with thick lines and then the cabinet is just like a spray-painted cheetah you know or something i'm just shocked they put the time into the cabinets or the effort into cabinets they do I'm like, I know they sell games like everyone looks at the big like three quarter profile picture of the game online before they buy it. But like when you actually put them in a line up, the cabinets just don't really matter. And I like the simpler like stencils more. Yeah, it's kind of it's just great. Yeah, they look cool. Anyway, that's my pet peeve. We're going we're going off. So so that was layout four out of five art four out of five. And then what is your next category? How many categories do you have? I have three. Oh, OK. So what's your final category? My last category is vibe theme, I guess is what you could say, but I like vibe better because it just pulls it all in. Yes, yeah. So I give the vibe of D&D a five out of five. I love the storytelling is very like Dungeons and Dragons-esque. You know, the fact that, you know, they go in and they tell you a story like a DM would, you know, as you start to enter a mode or a mission or whatever. Super cool. Very fun. the fantasy creatures there's such a variety and i feel like i'm truly like going on a side quest or i'm going on a mission like it's very fun so that's my three categories so 13 out of 15 13 out of 15 for dnd that's pretty good you know pretty good start to the year again not surprising to us because we know that megan loves this game and that's why i didn't know if we wanted to start with it but also can we ask do you love the theme in general i do love the theme in general like Since the game came out, she joined a D&D group. Because of the pinball machine. It is not. It's not? It's not 100% because of the pinball machine. But that really did sell me on it. Her friends had been hounding her for years. And then the game came out, and she got really into the game. And then, like, a few months later, she joined the D&D group. But you also have a general interest in, say, fantasy. Yes, 100%. Yeah, forest fantasy. Fantasy books. So that is very much one thing that you didn't you didn't talk about at all. And I don't know if it would necessarily fit into your categories. Well, but the carryover progress and signing in and continuing, you know. Yeah. Yeah. No, I had a couple other things that were not a part of my category. So I can I can I can I can look these up. So I other things I have my gripes or my pet peeves about games. Yeah. Gripes is a good Alex word. the rules i have you know whether or not i know the rules or not and then other things i enjoy so yes other things i enjoy i do think stern insider makes a hundred percent of sense for this game like it during insider doesn't really make sense for a lot of games but for this game it just it's like the first one where it actually feels like a necessity yeah it feels like it makes the game feels like you're not even playing the game without it i would agree it's the only time where it feels like if you're not logging in on dnd it feels like you're playing a mini game it feels like you're playing a challenge mode i made a stern insider account for this game like and this is the only game that i use it that feeling of like continued progression is a big part of why you like the game so much well yeah but i think that also just goes along with the theme so well too yeah you can't really like shoehorn that into yeah like i think if jaws let you log in and you'd make it to the next mode no i don't think like i think it would be lost if they did it for like every single game i agree i think it's like i think it's very cool i think it's like a really cool unique thing i don't want to see it on every game though i guess turn insider like it's fun to track your progress and like your achievements and stuff like that have you ever looked at your achievements oh no not at all do you even have i app on your phone no no i didn't even know they had an app oh yeah there's an app you made it like yeah she just made hers in browser and she saved a photo of the qr code and she just pulls up that photo every time yeah i just want to keep my my character progress yeah that makes sense that's the function of it in this game so that's and megan's not a nerd yeah megan's just here to play pinball and have a good time she's a nerd just not a pinball not a pinball nerd but that's why i'm like that's the interesting part of this episode is like okay here's someone that's like yeah i love this game i think the Insider Connected is a really critical key part of it. And I didn't know there was an app. You just log in and go on with your day. I want to ask you about another very hyped game of this year. And that's Evil Dead. What do you think about Evil Dead? First of all, yeah. Have you played Evil Dead much? Where do we play it? Where did you play it for the first time? I played it for the first time. You don't have to say where, but we played it at an arcade, right? That was the one? Yes. Yeah. And it was kind of working? Yes. And then we had the chance to visit a listener of the show, Connor's House. and he has an immaculate copy as you would expect from anything connor owns and so you did have a chance to put like a good few games on a fully working copy right yes yeah we'll get into it layout are you trying to be nice because you know it's like people's game no i said three or four out of five that's pretty good so i just i hate those groovy little targets on the side. The drop targets? The drop targets. The hand behind them? Yeah. Were you focusing on those? No. I dislike that area of the play field too I just feel like even after the ball ball like even if the most of the targets would get down the ball would just get hung up over there and it would just it was just annoying and the fact that that's the skill shot and there's no way to time the skill shot at all it's just like kind of frustrating because i just i love a gimme skill shot like i'm a casual player just give me my thousand points like that's the one thing that i know about pinball rules is a skill shot what's your can you think of a good skill shot what's your favorite because i'm like a dnd has flipper skill shots i'm trying to think of a good plunge one do you like the ones where you plunge and you just get to make sure the lane is on the right lane yeah that's like the classic yeah like a good skateball skill shot you know where I just get to fling it up there. Skateball, well, yeah. Yeah, the skateboard, it doesn't have a lane lit for you though, but you just shoot up to the top, to the lanes above the pops. Yeah, and then I get to choose the lane that I want. Yep, that makes sense. You like changing lanes. I love changing lanes.
    21:38
    I was like thinking about that. I'm like, Megan fucking never misses lane changes. Well, there you go. Which is really interesting. Steve Ritchie's contribution to pinball. Yeah, that's like 100% like ingrained in you. Yeah, once I figured out that that was like a key thing, I was like, oh, this is an easy thing that I can try to do. Some games it makes a massive difference. If that's your bonus multiplier, and it's a bonus heavy game like Skateball, you're like, right, is that your bonus multiplier? No, it's your, oh, man, it's been a while since I've played Skateball. But it's just funny, just funny when you do the lane changes. Anyway, sorry, I'm just going to cut that now. And then for some reason I... So layout, you're giving like a three or four. We're going to say a three and a half or three. Yeah. Or I also gave a three out of five.
    22:19
    It, once again, I feel like it's too vibrant. it's too saturated like when you look at like evil dead like we watched the movie just because the pinball came out and i was just like this just does not fit it's not purple or like turquoise blue yeah there's a lot of color and i just want everyone to know especially our regular listeners in the discord this is like what i'm crowing about all the time and megan's not in the discord she doesn't she doesn't have to hear me say this every day but it's funny that she's echoing the same sentiments i also i do try not to like pass that kind of opinion on to megan because it's more entertaining for me to have her form her own opinions yeah we're interested to hear this so you don't think it's like you don't think the color choices are appropriate for the theme no yeah it makes sense i just like if they were a little bit more muted i think it would be more appropriate yeah it's because it's an old movie and the movies i mean movies even now movies don't look like that we're gonna get to harry potter i'm excited to hear about the art package on harry potter but oh yeah because that was a big kerfuffle when it came out but we're still talking about i don't know if megan knows about the kerfuffle which would be interesting okay so anyway you're giving art a three out of five on evil yes yes but i'm giving the vibe a five out of five i feel like it appears like true to the movies you know the horror comedy theme yeah very much aligns the call outs are fun like the the sound package with it is great i like how at the beginning of the game you can choose movie one or movie two and then that changes the modes that you go into and you get different movie scenes so that's very fun so overall like the vibe is five out of five okay Did you enjoy the movies or not enjoy the movies when you watch them? It's very campy. We only saw Evil Dead 2. Yeah, we watched 2. So we didn't watch the first one. I bet the game fits the first one even better because the first one's really low budget and homemade.
    24:22
    That's true. It works on levels, dude. So, you know. But I do think I agree that it does. I agree that the colors are oversaturated and like that is kind of off but I do think it fits the vibe of the movie very well where it's like oh it's like all this kind of like spooky shit but it's funny it's mainly like a funny like when you play Evil Dead you're not like oh my god that was a terrifying experience you're like no that's funny and when you watch the movie you're not like oh it's so scary it's it's funny yeah and so it fits that very well and it's got all like it's got a lot of little toys and random stuff in it you know yeah the top that one topper can be a much just saying oh yeah you've seen both toppers i have seen both choppers the one is okay the other one is a lot yeah the other one is a lot it's a lot i think it's just that whole thing is just a little overused in my opinion the scary monster coming out under the floor but yeah i mean they really went in for that in particular okay so what's the total score then so it would be 11 and a half out of 15 okay okay not bad but yeah uh rules i really didn't know the rules that well yeah we had talked about this prior and megan was like i don't know if i should have a rules category because i don't know him and i'm like just just talk about if you is the game confusing like do you have any idea what you're doing were you able to figure out like how to start a mode on your game on that game i can't remember to be honest with you i can't remember if I was because it's like there's a lot of kind of just like random arrows and then don't you shoot under the right ramp you just shoot arrows yeah which are lit at most of the lane shots and then the right ramp lifts up and you shoot under it yeah so you shoot under the right ramp to start a mode that's why I was like I feel like both of us had to be taught that at some point yeah I just kept hitting that shotgun the shotgun shells you know it's fun to hit right in the middle I was like, those two, that seems like a gimme. So I would go for that. And then it starts a multiball or something, right? Yeah. Or it starts your locks or anything. Yeah, that's another multiball. The cabin has a really cool multiball start. So, well, are there any gripes? Any other, anything else you need to add on that game, that infidential category? I just, I'm not a fan. I tried so hard. You gave it a good score. See, that's why the Megan score, I have a feeling we're going to have to adjust. this in post as we do it just we'll have to get the ai voice generator out and oh my god it needs to be adjusted from like 0 to 15 to like 10 to 15 we'll figure out what her lowest scored game is and then that'll be the new bottom but anyway anyway that's okay that's okay so overall you didn't like it but you do think it's a decent game that's kind of how you're feeling yeah would you play it again if you see it in an arcade or she shake she's shaking her head it's so hard because I'm so picky when it comes to a pinball lineup I think I will play I will play any game once but I will there's just always going to be different games that I go back to and I'll just keep going so it just depends on the lineup like I think I would out on location 100% I would put another few games on it but after that I don't know if it has long term like you play like with Dungeons and dragons you're you will play it when you see it it came out first this year and any dungeons and dragons you see you'll get play yes yes it could be like a twilight zone thing you know where i'm just like forced to play it and it clicks and then all of a sudden like i get it so it's always hard because that's just how i am with pinball like i'll just put down a couple games like what's the racing one get away get away i used to hate a getaway and then for some reason it just clicked one day and i love a getaway now yeah she won't play no fear but she loves getaway is fun as the shifting you know really gets you invested the supercharger right man that game is perfect the shifting is a really underrated thing on a game that like more games should have you do something like that yeah it's fun they should just straight up make a getaway through high speed three at jjp will it be hard because i didn't list my gripes for dnd do you want me to do that at all okay i feel bad because what are your gripes yeah maybe we won't maybe this will just stay in this order that's fine too okay uh so my gripes for dnd is the dragon multi-ball meaning you don't like it or i part of it is a personal issue because i'm terrible at multi-balls i go for them every time and i lose all of the balls right away but isn't the dragon good because it saves the balls feeding you more i know but the thing about it is that there's so many fucking balls too many there's so many fucking balls that i don't feel like i have the time to look at the screen to look and see how many dragon hits i need or how many like balls i can't lose yeah when like i need alex by me to tell me how many more times i need to hit the dragon or how many balls i have left before my multi ball is going to be out i need someone to spot that form like there's no way to look at that stuff while you're trying to juggle like six balls on the play field at the same time or whatever and you kind of want to know that so you know when to play your shield because it's like when you when you start losing balls too fast and you're like oh fuck then it's like oh play the shield now play the shield or whatever and so it's like you kind of do need it that game is better with a spotter it feels like it do you feel that way about most multi balls that are do you like any multi balls in games do you not like multi balls in games or is there like a limit on like that one's overwhelming too much i like multi balls in games because as a casual player like it feels like a very achievable goal if i know like a multi ball that i can go for same thing for like a replay score those are like the two things that i'm like going for i'm like i want a replay score i want a multi ball if i can do those two things that i'm like cool crushed it But I don't like a multi-ball if it's more than a three-ball multi-ball because it's just like it's too much for me to handle. Like a two-ball multi-ball is kind of perfect for me because I feel like I can control the balls and like actually make shots. And that's just if I'm lucky. That's why Mark Ritchie had it figured out. Firepower, three balls, too many. Firepower, two. Two-ball multi-ball is pretty good. Well, it's because it's fireball, too.
    31:01
    There's two. okay so anyway that was wrapping up wrapping up that was wrapping up the dnd we're talking about evil dead uh should we talk about king kong or dune next let's do king kong myth of terror island because this is actually what got the original when this game came out alex and i were we were all talking amongst ourselves and the other regulars at wedge all pinball nerds and then we were very excited to hear megan's thoughts on this new keith elwynn game as it dropped yeah so this is kind of like what started the whole maybe megan talking about yeah megan or megan reviews yeah exactly exactly um okay king kong layout i gave a three out of five i think you know my biggest issue is the right side of the play field the right orbit and what's your issue with that it's not an orbit it doesn't go all the way around it doesn't go all the way around it It stops halfway and it comes back out. And I just, every single time it gets me. I don't, I think it's going to come around to the other side like any other orbit should. So you just don't like that it like fakes you out? Yeah, I hate it. I feel like it's nice because it's like a fairly friendly shot that feeds that flipper. Nope.
    32:17
    Well, that's the other part of it is like, even if it feeds that flipper, I don't think I've ever hit that upper flipper shot. Like, I just, I can't do it. she's never hit that side ramp at all she's hit it i'm confident yeah but like maybe a handful of times it's not something that i'm like nailing yeah that's true there's a lot of yeah there's a lot of missed upper flippers i do remember that that's what was so funny is because i remember we were all playing it and we were all like as pinball dorks oh that shot's so cool yeah to me that kind of like punches it back around and megan's immediately like why does that shot not go all the way around it's an orbit supposed to go all the way around and we were like oh i mean you're like you're she's right because it's no longer an orbit shot the entrance everything about it looks like a standard orbit but it's not an orbit shot because it's not orbiting the game yeah and then i feel like sometimes it like it comes back and then sometimes it pops over like yeah you don't know what it's gonna do sometimes a little kickback timing is fucked up and it messes up and sometimes it actually intentionally stops it up there and it goes to the buck or whatever yeah the subway or whatever wherever it goes yeah three out of five for the three out of five yes i do like the left side of the playfield i like the little river thing is fun yeah oh yeah um do you like that little upper little flipper and stuff yeah i love that what about the the log that you activate with the button i never use it yeah okay that's what i was gonna say so you so you only get that when the mode gives it to you automatically yeah yeah i I'm not strategic. I'm not hitting it myself.
    33:53
    You can hit that log button and you're like, eh. I'm just like, I'll use it when it gives it to me. Yeah, that's what I'm like. Yeah, the programmers know what they're doing. Megan's respecting the designer's intention.
    34:06
    Okay, art. I gave it a four out of five. So I was talking to Alex about this earlier because I felt like when I saw King Kong for the first time, I was just like, oh, this is beautiful. Like I love the color scheme. Like it gives like a very fun, like sunsetty vibe. I like how it's King Kong, but it's, it doesn't play on like the movies. Like I love the art style for it and everything. And it should be, I guess, noted for any nerds listening that you were seeing a premium for the first time. Okay. If that matters. Yeah, sure. I don't know. I don't know the difference. Yeah. The one at wedge is a premium. Yeah. But as I'm going through and I was looking at, cause I like, I was looking at all the, the layouts and the art for all of these as i was like researching and the photos just made the art look so bad and so alex and i were talking about it and he's like it's the lighting that you use when you're taking the photos or like how it's laid out and maybe like a darker location versus lighter when you see that game like all the stern press photos it's blasted with like cold hard lighting yeah as all of their games are every time they put out a game they put out the same little press photos and they're really nice photos if you're like trying to study this thing like you would for like an anatomy test like they're fully illuminated with like cold lighting that's not how the games look in real life really ever but especially not king kong which uses like warm lighting is like a fairly kind of like dark and like moody game i would say i thought that was interesting because she's like it doesn't really look like how i remember it in person and i'm like Yeah, and what's funny is the online photos is what everybody made their minds up about, like in the pinball community. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Everybody online determined that game was ugly before they ever saw it in person. What's interesting is that that's a very colorful game. That's a very vibrant, saturated game. But you like it for Kong, maybe dislike it for Evil Dead, a little bit for D&D. Do you? I think a lot of it was because of the color choice. Like it's not bringing in those like super bright reds or like those very bright blues. Like it's more layering on like the pinks and the purples. So I just felt like it. You think it just has good sunset vibe? Yeah. It's funny. I don't really think the game is sunsetty and it definitely is. Like and like the oranges. I don't know. I just felt like it like even though it was vibrant in that sense, like it just like made sense. Like it wasn't all those primary colors being mashed together. I think it's also because it's like an original rendition of Kong and it's not trying to be. I think that's part of it too, yes. Based off of like the 2005 Peter Jackson King Kong. No, that would not fit the vibe. Right, because that movie's like all blue. Yeah. For some reason. Yeah. So I think it is because they made it more of a original theme instead of like making it a part of like some incorporated movie or something like that. Interesting. It's almost like going with an unlicensed theme gives you more creative freedom. It changes, you know, nobody has expectations for your art then. I really like the top-down, like, player perspective of Kong. I think, like, when you look at Kong, in pinball, they use this term, world under glass. Have you heard that before, Megan? No, I have not. Okay. That's a common pinball nerd term, which is, like, how much kind of stuff and, like, little accoutrements, like, make it feel like the theme. Yeah. Because some games feel very, like, it just feels like they're shots on a play field. There's not a lot of extra seasoning. I would say, like, No Fear doesn't feel like a world under glass. It feels like a bunch of random shit thrown together. It does feel like No Fear, but it's not like a world. Or like my favorite game, Whitewater, where it's like, it has all the little mountains and stuff. And it just, it looks like you're in a river in a canyon. Right. And so I think Kong has a lot of that. Yeah. Well, and I feel like they really could have easily done like a jungle or something like that, which is like Congo or something, you know, where they really lean into it and they went a different direction. And I think it worked personally. That was what people were really mad. That's funny because people were really like mad. It wasn't more jungly. And it was like because they went like half jungle half because like the left side where the river is and stuff is a little jungly and then turns to city on the right. Yeah. And it was like very clearly like a choice because the story is like half jungle, half city. but people online were just like it should be all green should be congo too people just want a congo too i guess for the vibe yeah but like when i think of king kong like i do think of like a gorilla on a skyscraper you know or like yeah buddy that's the you know big monkey in a city and so i thought that you know to me it was fun that they leaned into that art wise and they didn't lean into the jungle theme i don't know it was like i said i think a lot of it is just the color scheme i really like and that is not like just like blue and green and red so i can see that it does have a pretty like like good like lockdown palette i really like the way it looks yeah it's interesting because it's just the reason we're dwelling on this so long is for anyone listening unaware people online really do not like like it got a really negative reception when it came out and it was bizarre to me because i immediately saw it i was like this looks cool I think those are cool. I really like the playfield in particular. I like the layered kind of plastics and I like the playfield art a lot. I like that they went with warm lighting on it from the factory and the flickering LEDs for the under the torches and shit. They did cool. Like this is one of the only Sterns where I'm like, oh, they nailed the lighting. One of the only ones. Yeah, because normally I have to go in there and pull all the colored bullshit out and put in warm lighting. I don't know if we've really brought that up on the show, so we don't need.
    39:54
    Yeah, I do that to all the games. Every single Stern has warm lighting in it now, except for John Wick. Yeah. But anyway, so sorry, next category. So what'd you give it for art? So art, I gave it a four out of five. Okay. The vibe. Overall vibe, theme choice. Vibe, I gave four out of five. Okay. I thought it was a good, you know, take on King Kong overall. Yeah, it was fun. it's just one of those games that i enjoy playing but i don't always go back to but you don't like the layout really is what you're saying yeah i don't like the way it shoots yeah yeah like it and it's really just that one shot i mean do you remember i know it's been a little while since you played but i'm just curious do you remember how to start a mode on that off the top of your head shoot the arrow there's so many fucking arrows that was my great that's my gripe is that there's too many fucking lit arrows. There's so many lit arrows. Everything on there is an arrow insert. Three different types of arrow inserts. Three different shapes of arrows. What am I supposed to be hitting because everything is lit? There's like arrowheads with arrows and arrows Yeah that makes sense Do you have any other gripes about King Kong uh no it was just that and that right shot that okay the right shot and the arrows too many arrows that makes sense yeah and then i for rules i have like a general idea but only because you guys told me like i don't think i would have ever figured out how to get that main multi-ball by myself oh yeah you have to hit those drops and then you have to hit the that ramp once it tells you it's not really well communicated at all clearing clearing drops to light a lock is not something you expect on a modern game yeah clearing drops to do any kind of objective based thing is cool but it's not expected like it's it's funny because it's something as a pinball nerd i'm like oh shit they actually made drops matter in a modern game but it's not intuitive at all that's not what you normally do no well they're not it's not next to it either no and there's no fucking green lights in front of the drops like if you're gonna i would say personally i feel like if you're gonna make there be some steps to lighting a multi-ball lock they should have green inserts yeah that's just my ability to turn them green sometimes with rgb lighting yeah yeah multi-ball should be green i just that's how i feel i just hit that spider multi-ball and i was just like okay this is fun the little spider mech is a good time the spider bouncing around yeah i love that thing do you think about the gong oh the gong is okay i don't know is it supposed to reject you like when you hit it the first couple times because i was just like am i just not hitting it hard enough yeah it's supposed to reject you a couple times so so it's like confusing a little bit yes because i'm just like am i not hitting it is it broken is it not working yeah yeah yeah yeah that's uh That's pretty valid. Okay. Any final thoughts on Kong before we move on? No. So overall, 11 out of 5. Same as Evil Dead? Yes. Wow. Okay. Interesting. Okay. From there, we're going to go on to another boutique game. It's Barrels of Fun's Dune. Hey, Dune. I have not put a lot of time on this game. The exact same experience as Evil Dead, where we played a half-working one on location, and then we played an immaculate copy at our friend Connor's house. So, you know, take it with a grain of salt. But layout, I gave four and a half out of five. Wow. I didn't realize I liked that layout. I thought it was really fun to shoot. It can be kind of like difficult at times, but I just felt like it flowed really easily. What am I thinking of? The stupid little, the worm. Yeah, that one was fun. I don't know. I just had a fun time shooting that one. Shy hallooed.
    43:49
    Go on. Yes. It's a worm. it's people say worm but it's the shai halut but i mean i could say butthole but so you know i thought that was fun art i gave a five out of five nice is a gorgeous game like i look at that thing and i'm just like man this is beautiful do you know who did the art on that no that's funny i didn't know if she knew at all it's johnny crap who's been on our show oh really okay okay friend of the podcast all around good guy french canadian very few canadians working in pinball we have to stand with our own you know it does feel like you're like standing into the world of dune that play field is just like it's just gorgeous like the play field's so good it's so good yeah and it's just like the lighting just worked so well with it i just i could just stand there and i'm like i don't need to play it i can watch somebody else play it because it just looks so pretty like that's it yeah i fully fully agree yeah that's a it's a stunning game it is a stunning game vibe is really hard for me to judge because i haven't seen the second movie do you think that does that matter to you when you play the game um i think for this one it does because i know that it pulls off of both movies but when i was playing it it felt like a lot of it was more so from the second movie which i haven't seen so it was just kind of hard for me to tell there is quite a bit of stuff i feel like that's like like even right when you start the game it's like you're destroying harvesters which is this isn't that in the second part but i'm pretty sure they're not destroying harvesters in part one really the ones that i'm thinking of but i've seen obviously part two more recent yeah like the first movie to me from what i remember was like very intense like world building and like figuring out all yeah there's a lot of stuff that's not on dune in the first move you know you mean dune the The planet. Oh, on Arrakis. Yeah, Arrakis. Sorry. Thank God. Please get the terminology correct.
    45:53
    I also, like, am a little jaded because I started reading this book and then it was a do not finish for me. So you don't like the theme? I mean, maybe. Yes. Like, I really enjoyed the first movie. I haven't watched the second one. Megan really liked the first movie, started reading the book, and she really, from what I remember, you really didn't like how Paul was written in the book. No, I hated him. Yes, I feel like I just did not like him. Is that important to you to like a character, to like a theme? Not necessarily. To like a main character, maybe?
    46:25
    Maybe? Yeah, like is it hard for you to enjoy because you don't like Paul, the main character? No, I can still recognize a theme and appreciate it for what it is. dune just reading it like was one of those books where i was just like i can't push myself to like go through this i don't know i just i didn't like the main character so i was just like if this is what i'm going to be reading about i just don't care for it that being said like i still enjoyed watching the first movie when it came out i just never went back and watched the second one So not to say that I wouldn't in the future. Yeah. So like tepid on the movie that it's based on, no attachment to the source material of the books. Right. Not against the theme, but just not interested in the theme really. Yeah. So like I'm like, I'm lukewarm on it maybe is a good way to put it. For the vibe overall? Yeah. What do you think the vibe for the game is considering that? What's your vibe score? Yeah. What'd you give it? Did you put a number down? No. I just put a dash because I haven't seen the second movie. I wanted. This one gets a nine and a half out of 10. Well, because I was wanting, I was mostly like, what is your guys's end point? Like, no, we're here to ask you. I know. But do you think like it lines up with the movie? I feel like it matches the vibes of the movies very well, maybe to a fault because it does feel kind of like long and overly epic for a pinball machine. it doesn't really feel like it just focuses on like the action i mean it obviously does like the modes are all action based but it's kind of like a slower moving theme you know i don't know how to explain yeah i guess that was kind of where i was coming from like when i was playing the game i'm just like this game kind of seems like a little chill compared to like the dune that i knew of like i'm not getting like this super impending doom that i was getting from the first dune movie so okay yeah i can see that i don't know it is i'd say it's like a pretty relaxed game like the music's pretty like laid back and stuff i'm gonna press you for a score on the vibe so it helps our rankings overall so vibe i should i should give it a three yes i think i should give it a three long story long yeah it should be a three because so then where do we end up at 12 and a half out of 15 yes 12 and a half out of 15 yeah all right so now we're gonna go to Harry Potter, Jersey Jack. Harry Potter, I cannot for the life of me, like I've played this game just a couple of games. So like it's very minimal, but I just cannot remember the layout.
    49:08
    I looked at a photo and I'm just like, what is going on? I have no idea. I remember when I was playing and when I was shooting that I was having fun. So I think it was like kind of flowy, But like for specifics, I can't give any anything. So I'll just give it like a three out of five for that because I just don't remember. Because it was fun. It wasn't off-putting. Right. But it wasn't, you didn't love the way it shot. Yeah. Like I guess it wasn't memorable enough maybe for me to. Does it feel more or less confusing than, what do you think about Uncanny X-Men to shoot? Do you like that? Do you not like that? Is that weird to you? I mean, I don't. With all its little like twisties and stuff, you know? I don't know. I'm not a big X-Men fan. So I'd probably say like. The difference between the two to me, if you know, trying to compare those two, is that you see what the ball does on X-Men in Harry Potter. You don't get to see what the ball is doing. I kind of agree. Like when I'm playing Harry Potter, I'm like, I think it shoots well. Like the ball like moves fast. Everything kind of like feels good because it's got sound effects playing while it's happening and everything. But then when you look at it, you're like, you really can't see. It's like you shoot the ball in somewhere, you lose sight of it, and then it pops out somewhere else. There's also like a thousand diverters and different ball paths in that game. So you don't even know where it's going to pop out. It just kind of shoots out somewhere else and it feeds it to your upper flipper or feeds it back down. And so it does cool stuff, but you can't tell what it's doing. Yeah. Yeah. Like I think if I had more time on it, I'd probably get more frustrated because it seems like one of those games that like if I was trying to hit a particular shot, it probably would have been more tricky for me like versus like if i'm just like if you just vibe in and just kind of like slapping the ball you kind of hit stuff exactly so three out of five but what about how do you feel about the art on it the art i gave a three out of five do you remember like anything about the art at all i remember the big argument about the ai stuff Yeah. Which I will say is, I think, like, just kind of embarrassing. Like they had these movies to go off of, like they could have just pulled the art from that. So that's what they they did. I think just basically the artists that put this together took screen caps from the movies and then just like ran them through like a artistic upscaler. Yeah. An AI upscaler. Oh, here you go. Make like take this image and make it look oil painted is is basically what painted. yeah yeah i don't know it i don't know for as big as a company as jjp is i yeah and securing this license blowing it with ai art yeah like it's just you couldn't have put a little effort in like it's just that being said do you remember like anything particularly like bad looking on the game like i remember like just like the weird glitches with the ai stuff but other than that i was just like it just kind of looks like harry potter yeah to me it just kind of looks like a serviceable it's not a good it's not something i'm gonna go right home about but jjp games you don't have a back glass so it's like i don't really think about the art on them ever anyway yeah there isn't a single there isn't a single jjp game to me that i'm like oh wow that looks so good so harry potter's another addition in a long line of you know mediocre looking games i mean you gave it a three so that's not bad yeah i mean i think i was pretty pretty nice with all my ratings so like considering you just like pinball yeah like i i mean i'm not here to like be like harsh and mean and provide negative stuff you know i'm very casual okay what about the what about the vibe the vibe i gave a four out of five once again very minimal time i did have fun when i was playing it like i gotta cast spells like that was cool it was like if i saw it on location again, I would probably play it again. I think like the whole like controversy is like a whole underlying thing. Like I would never own one myself, but yeah, it is funny because both of us grew up reading and watching Harry Potter. Both of us. I mean, I don't know. I guess I'll still watch the movies like for like in a hotel room. They always seem to be on TV. Yeah. Yeah. But it's not something that like, I'm like, I have no real desire. I wasn't someone being like, we need a Harry Potter pinball machine. And then yeah, with the JK Rowling kind of just being a piece of shit i think we're both like and no i don't think i'd ever own one jk aside you like the theme i do like the harry potter theme i did feel like the game aligned with the movies so so it executed the theme well yes yes felt like harry potter to you it felt like harry potter so as a harry potter fan you walk up you're like who harry potter and then you got harry potter yes yeah 100 yeah that makes sense i feel like it feels like a harry potter game and i think a big part of that is like the sound effects and like the use of assets like they really they don't let you forget you're playing harry potter yeah right well i mean the layout it has like the staircase but it's not like like it's kind of funny that that's the mech for the game is the staircase because when i think about like the harry potter books and movies not i'm not like all the iconic hogwarts staircase that moves like yes i think about that when i watch the movies not the not the books it was not a thing in the books but in the movies a hundred percent they do i guess you say that But there are a lot of scenes set in the staircase, whatever. Yeah, that was a big part of the Sorcerer's Stone, you know? Yeah, I suppose. What's the name of the big guy that's kind of standing there? In the game? In the game, and he throws the ball right back at you. It's just a generic Death Eater. Oh, I don't remember that. Yeah, there's like a kickback shot. What's a Death Eater? It's like a Nazi. He's like a bad wizard? Yeah.
    55:04
    Okay. They're like bad wizards? Yes. Yeah. I'm not familiar with the theme. That's why I'm asking. Yeah. Because I'm like, he's a big kind of part of it. I know the upper play field is the snitch game. It's their school sport. Yeah. Oh, it's Quidditch. What's a snitch? Snitch is the game. Snitch is the... We're just going to explain all of Harry Potter. A snitch is like the golden thing you catch as... Oh, it's like the ball. It's just one of many balls in Quidditch. Yeah, we're going to get too far into the weeds. I don't need to do that. I guess I just... What's your overall... Any other gripes that you didn't address? I just said rules, not a fucking clue.
    55:45
    Yeah, I have... I had no idea how to do anything. I tried my best. I played it again recently, and I really tried my best to stop and cradle and read the screen and try to follow inserts, and I cannot, for the life of me, figure out basic shit. I feel like there are many sterns that feel some level of unscrutable, but I do feel like Jersey Jack is in a class of their own with making things that make no sense. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Like, all I can remember is I got to like that one level where I was just like, oh, hit these shots and you can do a spell. And I was just like, this is cool. And that's what I agree. When you see stuff in that game, you're like, oh, that's a cool idea. Or if it's like you hear something explicitly explained, you're like, oh, that's fun. Like there's the golden snitch is like a thing you catch in Quidditch or whatever. And they put like one little golden shot around the game that you got to go catch. And I'm like, oh, that's cool. But like then when you're actually playing it, you have no idea what any of that is or how to qualify it or get back into that. Right. And you're like, oh, man. Like I didn't even know how to get like just like a simple multiball or anything. I know, the Golden Trio multivolve, you're like, I have no idea. Yeah. I tried, really. I could get into it if I just played the game long enough and hit every shot. But it was just, yeah, I agree, very confusing, as most JJPs are. Overall score? Overall score, I can't remember what I gave the label. A three out of five? I think you said three and then three. Three, three, and four. So that would be 13 out of 15. Three, three, and four would be 10 out of 15. Yes, math. Yes. 10. Okay. We'll edit that. You'll be snappy, like on the podcast. It's a 10 out of a 15.
    57:41
    All right, so we have the next game, another Stern game. It's Star Wars Fall of the Empire. What do you think about Star Wars? Star Wars, so it's fun. I, you know, was first probably a little disappointed that they were making another Star Wars because I just feel like it's a very like overdone theme at this point. But I get it. It sells. So it makes sense. Layout, I gave a four out of five. I think the little tube tunnel shot, whatever you would call it. Little spinny bowl shot. It's funny, but also kind of a drag.
    58:18
    A mixed bag. Yeah, you're just like, okay, this is going a little bit longer than we really need it to. But the middle ramp shot is really fun to hit. Oh, the center ramp. You like the center ramp. Yeah, yeah. The little jump, yeah. Yeah, the jump. It's fun. But otherwise, it is just very, I feel like, a fan, which is just a little basic. Is that good or bad to you as a player stepping up to a game for the first time? Simpler or do you like it to be more complicated? I don't know. This might be very controversial, but I'm not a huge fan layout fan. Okay. Wow. You don't like Sword of Rage? No. I thought you loved that game. No.
    59:10
    I don't know if I've ever seen Megan willingly play Sword of Rage. um mostly for like me i feel like and like it's just i'm not a skilled pinball player like i just feel like the shots can just be too tight so i think a lot of it is just like i'm just not good at those games so you think fan layouts are harder yeah i do i do i mean fall of the empire is definitely a lot of those shots are very tight i guess i'll just ask you real quick for the podcasts attack from mars monster bash medieval do you like those games or so i do like them like they're fun um like i'll always play all of those games but i just feel like they can have a lot of them like medieval madness like you can easily go for the castle same thing for attack from mars like because even though they're a fan layout there's like an easy achievable shot that you can go for some of them like you can hit like their their ramps easy and it's nice but just in general i feel like some of those fan layouts can just be like really tight for me to hit all those shots mostly like those like inner shots i don't know not like the outer orbit shots but like the inner ones and then you know you got your middle shots i don't know interesting interesting very different than what i would have expected yeah i'm surprised by that i'm a little bit surprised I'm just like, you're taken aback by this? Okay. No, because usually they try to put, like, friendly stuff in the middle, because that's usually the easier place for people to hit. Yeah. And also, we typically think of fan layouts as user-friendly, casual player-friendly, friendlier than, say, like a King Kong layout, or like an X-Men layout, or something that's just crazier with cross-flipper shots and weird kind of endings. entrances you would think a fan would be more casual friendly than like twilight zone yeah exactly yeah i don't know like it's just i feel like they're they're harder and they're just kind of a little bit more boring to me interesting huh very interesting okay so what'd you give the layout or what'd you what do you give the layout out of five i gave it a four out of five because i still thought it was fun yeah yeah you seem weirdly drawn to that game i would say i do like playing it. More than I would expect, considering she doesn't, you don't really care about Star Wars. I do think it's fun that they put those two pops in the front half Oh yeah like the lower part Yeah I think that fun and like just the like that yeah that center ramp how it does that little jump you know is is pretty cool so yeah so i thought the center ramp being a jump very cool it is very cool if you're gonna everyone loves center ramps they're they should be in all pins everyone loves center ramp jumps dude all the good ones are jumps it was a very it's a very good play on star wars i would say it just it works really well okay so what is the vibe that leading into that the vibe of star wars the vibe did you get did you give it an art i did not talk about the art yet so art i gave a three out of five mostly just because i'm overdone on star wars so i just you know idiot it's a star wars like it it gives you it gives you a star wars theme like i don't feel like they did anything like particularly bad with art or particularly great with art like it's it just looks like a star wars game yeah i want to ask you sorry to back this up again but i don't know anything about harry potter but when i looked at the harry potter art package i was like those movies don't look like that right the color palette the color palette did that strike you when you were playing or it doesn't seem to strike you i felt like the color the color palette matched up but that's just me interesting it's it depends so much to me on which the movies change colors throughout the movies because the movies kept you know over the 10 years they were making them or whatever aesthetics changed and it's like the first couple are fairly colorful and then you get into like the moody kind of like twilight color shifted blue the prisoner of azkaban and stuff and then they turn i can't remember we were just we just caught one of the last ones on when we were up in a hotel or whatever yeah the deathly hallows yeah we were watching one of the deathly hallows and there was like yellow i can't remember because i was like geez this looks way different than i remember it's just hard because harry potter with the hogwarts houses are so colorful so i feel like you could bring that in any way and it you could make it work so it kind of to me looks like a storybook version it looks like like a children's like a storybook is what you know i know well i know like the covers of the books are very colorful i just feel like in my like again i haven't seen any of the movies i've only seen like trailers and kind of bits and pieces i kind of agree with you i don't feel like the colors the colors are very bright on the game yeah and so saturated that like it was shocking to me yeah but again i'm not a fan of the source material so i was just asking the star wars going back to star wars yeah sorry the art you think it looks like star wars but it doesn't do anything exciting so you're just giving it three out of five yes that makes sense what about the overall vibe of the game the overall vibe i gave a four out of five once again star wars this is just star wars but you think it it hits the movies well yes i'm just but you're just burnt out on star wars on star wars so 11 out of 10 overall yes that's pretty positive that's pretty positive yeah yeah um i do not at all like yoda's eyeballs as the ball saves okay much like con she specifically dislikes my favorite part of the game i know i i really like the eyes yoda's flashing eyes are hilarious john borg loves like i don't know if he's the one being like no we need the eyes to flash for like the ball save because he does that on a few other games he does it on rush and the eyes of the owl and it says hoot again yeah that's pretty good i love and we all like the hoot again that one's fine with me for for yoda i'm just like this is a little eyes flashing it's very funny and there's also like another flashing light for like some some mode or some like hurry up or something that i'm just like this is blinding and so distracting that yeah there are some really great flashers in there i cannot focus on anything else i can't remember what it was doing i remember you like i remember you bitching about it when you were playing it a while back now it's not on the floor i wedged so it's been a couple a few you know a couple months or whatever since we played it okay anyway overall you gave it a 12 out of 15 is that what it was 11 out of 11 out of 15 okay fair enough well before we end this episode i think it would be fun to ask you what you think of some of the heavily rumored or before we before we get into that we got to have like an actual Like, so what was your official favorite? I wasn't keeping track, and I don't know if the numbers necessarily add up. I think the Megan rating scales got a little murky there. They all seem about the same rating. That's why. And they seem a little bit more like she's kind of, like, looking to us to provide some numbers. So regardless of the numbers, what would you say were kind of your standout games?
    66:40
    Standouts? So, like, games I go back to? Yeah, games you like. Games I like. D&D. Yeah, yeah. Just whatever you'd like to, you know, like you'd like to see them make more games like that. Oh, okay. Or something, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, just your favorite game this year, or your favorite games this year. I mean, my favorite game, yes, was D&D. I thought it was a fun theme going, you know, not necessarily something that was licensed, right? Well, it's, yeah, licensed. It is licensed. Soft licensed, yeah. So, you know, there was a lot of flexibility there, kind of. Yeah. It's got really good theme integration. Yes. And it's like if you're interested in fantasy themes like you are anyway, the storytelling aspect of it that you said you liked. Right. You know, that, I mean, no other games really do that, so. Yeah. And, like, the whole, the Stern Insider thing, like I said before, makes a lot of sense for that game. So I think seeing more games similar to that vibe, you know, where a Stern Insider makes sense for like Pokemon. So, yeah.
    67:52
    Now, now what's your least favorite game? What's a game that you don't really want to play anymore or much at all? Do you have anything that you just like hated of this list? No, not really. I mean, I don't know if I really want to play any more Evil Dead. I feel like I put enough time on that game. And it's just like not one that I would 100% go back to. So probably that one's on my low ranking. So favorite D&D, least favorite Evil Dead. Yes. That kind of tracks. I could have probably guessed that going into this, going off of her reactions to all of the games as we played them. Okay. And then before we wrap up. Yeah. Yeah, before we end the episode, I think it'd be fun to ask you what you think of some of the heavily rumored or wished for upcoming titles in the nerd community and whether or not some of these themes cause you to be excited or not. This is kind of a mix of rumors and then stuff that comes up in our Discord as like a potential theme. Yeah. You can either give us just like a yes, no, or like if you want more context or something. Yeah. So we'll just kind of quickly run through these. Okay. The first one is Transformers. Could be fun. Already done. Yeah, they did do the one. That's right. I kind of forget. Okay, next up, Pokemon. At the time of recording is a rumor. Could be fun. I think would be a great Stern Insider game. Yeah, that makes sense. Sonic the Hedgehog. I don't know enough about it. So not interested. Not interested. Fallout. I guess it's a cool theme. Don't know enough about it. Halo. Same. What's the difference between Halo and Fallout? No idea. Me either.
    69:31
    I'm actually with Megan on this. I'm like, I know they're like gun games. They're like post-apocalyptic, right? Like shooters. Fallout is post-apocalyptic.
    69:42
    Halo's like sci-fi. Okay, so I don't know. Could be fun. I have no idea. Okay, Back to the Future. I think that would be a fun one. That would be a fun game, I think. You'd be excited for Back to the Future. I'd be excited about Back to the Future. Yeah, I kind of feel the same. I don't know if I've ever actually seen the whole movie, like start to finish. I just, but I'm like, it's just a fun vibe. Oh, dude, the trilogy's good. Yeah. I feel like there would be a lot of different directions that they could take that pinball machine. So that'd be a fun one. This next one, Taylor Swift. A hundred percent would be a great pinball. Would this game be enough that you would force Alex to buy one? A hundred percent. And you would actually play it here in the basement studio? Yes. Yeah. If any company announced a Taylor Swift pin, I'd probably buy like an LE sight unseen. You know, it's just one of those ones that I'd be like, okay, Megan's going to really like this. Yeah. I mean. It's the biggest thing that I could. It's the most realistic dream theme of yours I could think of anyway. Yeah. Like that might actually happen. I mean, it is. All music themed games are really challenging because it's just like, what is what's the gameplay? Like, how do you make modes out of it? But I feel like Taylor Swift has done like. She's a storyteller, though. She's a storyteller. She writes stories in her song lyrics. the era's thing you know like yeah so you're like it just she's had enough music at this point but also i bet it would just be so expensive to get that license so it's probably never gonna happen i mean they get harry potter they get it's true allegedly pokemon they get star wars that matters is if like her team like her representation is like no this will be a good thing for the brand it'll like get more eyeballs or whatever it's never like it the money is obviously a big thing like they might just be like no we don't you know fucking we don't go sign papers for less than a billion dollars yeah but like it just matters on the team always so you never know okay next one legend of zelda oh that would be a great pinball game wouldn't it be sick yeah you like breath of the wild i do like breath of the wild i feel like there's so much zelda stuff out there that they could go so many different directions with it so yeah it would be an easy it's an easy one to think of ideas for, I feel like. Zelda's a weird boy's name, but it's okay.
    72:06
    What about Mario? I don't like it. No? Okay, so Zelda, yes. Mario, no. Boo! Okay, what about He-Man, Master of the Universe? I don't know who He-Man is. Okay, well that gives us the answer. Good feedback. The Goonies. A hundred percent. You're into? Yes. Oh, okay. I love the Goonies. okay so you saw that as a kid it's a movie you enjoy yes you watched goonies growing up yes i didn't see the goonies until we moved to portland and we knew it was filmed in astoria and stuff on the coast yeah i love the goonies i love the goonies you can make a treasure hunt out of it good good pinball works so well as a pinball machine it's shocking it hasn't been done the muppets i don't like the muppets you and alex both yeah that's what unifies us we realize this is what you know this is our biggest common ground is our disdain of the muppets spongebob no no no huh i thought you you like spongebob right i like spongebob i think as a pinball game it would it's just too goofy yeah i'm just like imagining well first off i don't really like the color yellow so like seeing a big yellow pinball game would just like you're like oh because he's square and pinball machines are square so you you make the whole game spongebob so it's right yellow sponge oh that'd be funny now now i'm in dude imagine how fucking ugly that would be make the game look like him yeah like the cabinet look like him the cabinet's him what about lisa frank dude i think lisa frank as a pinball game would be so sick me too i have never heard of that as a pinball theme no this is what i think that like i'm just like i'm so in on this a hundred percent like that would be so fun people would immediately like recognize it would be attention grabbing yeah it'd be i always bring this up in the discord but i'm like a lisa frank pin would be sick it would be an expensive license no and like jersey jack already makes the lisa frank version of every theme they make so like just make actual lisa frank right like their rainbow light shows yeah if you're gonna strobe rainbows on every game glitter on the playfield and shit like just make the real deal yeah just give me give me those little puppy dog eyes give me those dolphins i am here for it nice yeah i will 100 we're all in on lisa frank yes okay how about beyonce Beyonce, I think, would be really fun, too. I'm not a gigant... Like, I don't listen to Beyonce's music a ton, but I think that would be a really cool game. You know, I'm more of a fan of Austin Powers 3, but... Specifically the third one. Yeah, of course. That's where they get good. All right, Twilight. Twilight would be a great pinball theme also, I think. Like, there's just... There's so much funny shit that you could put in there. Yeah. And it's one of those games where you could just put like a really generic layout with just like a couple little like figures in it and i'd be like oh hell yeah this is like perfect twilight game you know like it would just be a funny it would just be a good one yeah or you could do like a lord of the rings style where you mash all the movies together into one and i would rather see a base just off the first movie though yeah because you just like the first one the first one's so funny it's like so insane over the top if anyone listening to this has never seen any Twilight movies, it's really genuinely worth watching the first one. It is. It's very, very, it's insane. It's funny. It's a good time. The next one, The Hunger Games. I also think that would be a good theme. It's very millennial of me, but because I grew up watching both Twilight and The Hunger Games, so I think those would be very good themes for pinball games. Yeah. I just feel like there's a lot of directions you could go with it hunger games i could see i'm not particularly drawn to but i think it would do well i think it'd be a good demographic yeah you know it would be like oh this is trying to think of some some you know there's a lot of these are rumored to be games or highly sought after games by the nerd community and then some of them i just wanted to put women coded themes that don't ever get brought up yeah something that would you be like oh yeah like taylor swift you're like i I'd want to see that or I'd want to see a Beyonce or Lisa Frank. Okay. What about Beastie Boys?
    76:33
    I don't know their music very well. So it's kind of hard for me to say. Okay. I mean, that's fair. What about like Wu-Tang Clan? That's one that like everybody always wants to see a Wu-Tang Clan. I don't know that. What about like Dr. Dre or something? Like some kind of 90s hip hop. Dr. Dre could be fun. Dr. Dre game could be sick. I don't think that would ever happen.
    76:57
    But Dr. Dre game. Wu-Tang Clan has a lot better visuals and stuff. I think that's why everyone thinks that would be the one to happen. Yeah. Because they've got really cool aesthetics for their albums. And they're tied in with all the old Kung Fu stuff and everything. So it would work as a theme really well. But if you just made a game that was just Dr. Dre themed. Yeah. It's just him throwing women downstairs and beating them and stuff. Whatever he was. Jeez. That got dark quick. That should never happen. I just like his music. Yeah. I mean, like, once again, all music games, it's just challenging to come up with, like, modes, themes. Yeah, the story. Yeah. Did you like Foo Fighters? I did like Foo Fighters. I thought that was fun. I thought that was a fun take on a music theme. Yeah, that's the one we always bring up is, like, this is a good way to do a music pen, where you just kind of, like, make a story. You use the band as characters in a different story. Yeah. And you use their music, but you're not like. Yeah, Jack Danger just said recently that started as an original theme. It wasn't Foo Fighters originally. They were just going to do like a Saturday morning cartoon action figure kind of theme. Oh, interesting. And then they attached Foo Fighters after the fact and made it more like UFOE. Yeah. But I was like, that's cool that like you're like you can see that flavor in there. I would like to plug my my game that I think would be your dream. Great. My dream. Yeah. My dream theme is the mummy. the brendan frazier the mummy hell yeah more of a like like trout the bartender from wedgehead i'm more into mummy too you know the mummy returns yeah no the mummy the first one with brendan frazier well i guess the second one's him too but yeah the first mummy would be an awesome pinball machine it would be so much fun he's so good and they're doing the new there aren't they doing a new mummy with him uh they're rebooting yeah yeah i'm pretty sure he signed and stuff now. I think it's announced. If that's actually happening, someone should definitely cash in on Mummy Millennial Revival and make a Mummy 1 pin. Please don't make a Mummy 5 or whatever the reboot is. Do a Mummy 1 pin. It would be so good. Mix that chair at Benny. It's the funniest shit. That kills me every time. That's a great movie. It's a great time. It's so good.
    79:12
    Last one. Air Bud. air bud oh yes a hundred percent air bud just you know did not watch that movie until my late 20s early 30s we're just watching just falling in love with air bud think it would be such a great theme yeah air bud's a great theme but we want to well the people want bud man there will be but there ain't no rules that say a dog can't play pinball yeah exactly dude he's so good well megan we want to thank you for joining us on this episode of the show and sharing your opinions on this year in pinball i think it was way more interesting to me at least because we talk about all these games all the time yep uh with other pinball nerds so we got a couple there were some surprises in here like megan saying that anyway we you guys if you've listened this far you'll know you'll get in the prizes we'll talk about it in the discord that's Oh, my gosh. Sure, it'll be in there. But anyway, yeah, thanks so much for coming on, you know, coming downstairs here to the studio. It was fun to jump on. Not as terrifying as I thought it was going to be. Good, good. Yeah, hopefully we can think of a reason to get you, drag you back down here in the future. Hopefully people just don't hate my opinion. No, they will. It's the Internet. The fun part, this is the best part about Megan being in the position she's in, though, is that I'll only relay positive feedback to you. If anyone says anything negative, I would just never tell you. It's perfect. Okay, so yeah, just give me the positive feedback. I don't have to hear the negative.
    80:56
    No, but for all the listeners out there, we thank you for listening to another episode of the Wedgehead Pinball Podcast. Please go out and play some of these games on location near you and make up your own mind. Make a trip to play some of these games, because I know some of them are a little bit rare to see on location. But until next time, good luck. Don't suck.
    81:40
    No way. Bet you won't find anything in there that says a dog can't play. He's right. Ain't no rule that says a dog can't play basketball. Yeah!
    82:00
    My name's Norm Snively. I believe you got my dog. No! Give me that chip. Give me the ball. Will somebody cover the door?