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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 61 - TPF Prep 2025

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 21m·held·Mar 15, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Triple Drain goes independent; Twippies recap; Evil Dead and TPF 2025 preview.

Summary

Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 61 focuses on the hosts' transition to independence from TPN (leaving after 60 episodes), previews for Texas Pinball Festival 2025, Twippies awards recap (Jaws dominated; Triple Drain placed 6th in podcasting), and detailed hands-on impressions of the new Spooky Pinball Evil Dead machine. The hosts discuss Evil Dead innovative horror-themed gameplay, mode design, and accessibility, while briefly touching on Dungeons & Dragons code updates and other TPF expectations.

Key Claims

  • Triple Drain is leaving TPN (The Pinball Network) effective Episode 61 to become an independent podcast with their own YouTube channel

    high confidence · Joel announced this as a major transition with no drama or issues, citing Episode 30 as the point when they added video content (now at Episode 60 with 30 video episodes)

  • Jaws dominated the Twippies awards, winning in most categories, with X-Men unexpectedly winning Innovation of the Year for The Danger Room

    high confidence · Joel reviewed Twippies results, noting Jaws won LCD for the first time Jersey Jack didn't win that category

  • Triple Drain placed 6th in Best Podcast category at Twippies; Electric Bat Arcade won Best Podcast

    high confidence · Joel stated they got sixth place and acknowledged they need to work harder; praised Electric Bat Arcade as deserving winners

  • Evil Dead arrived at Joel's location with only three legs instead of four; they improvised using Stern legs to make it playable

    high confidence · Joel explained the delivery issue and creative workaround, noting it makes the game appear taller on Stern legs

  • Evil Dead features four modes based on the first Evil Dead movie and four modes based on the second movie, all story-based

    high confidence · Joel detailed mode design philosophy, explaining players experience scenes from the movies rather than just inhabiting the Evil Dead world

  • Evil Dead uses a hidden/dark screen mechanic where players hide in lockable areas (cellar under ramp) while being chased, with the LCD showing Ash peeking and jump scares

    high confidence · Joel described specific gameplay moment explaining how theme is integrated into mechanics

  • Dungeons & Dragons still has two final wizard modes and one dungeon mode that are not yet in the game code

    high confidence · Tom reported this based on his play experience with recent code updates

  • Spooky Pinball is bringing 10 or 11 Evil Dead machines to Texas Pinball Festival

Notable Quotes

  • “Triple Drain, we are leaving TPN. We are leaving the pinball network. There's nothing. There's no issues. There's no problems. There's no drama. There's nothing.”

    Joel @ Early in episode — Major announcement of the podcast's independence transition; establishes no bad blood with TPN

  • “Jaws dominated in pretty much every category. The Innovation of the Year was surprising. X-Men won that.”

    Joel @ Mid-episode, Twippies discussion — Key Twippies result showing unexpected winner despite Jaws' overall dominance

  • “I unboxed a game and there's only three legs. What do I do?”

    Joel @ Evil Dead discussion — Highlights the practical problem-solving needed in the pinball business

  • “the fact that they figured it out, it seems like they figured it out, is like to me that speaks volumes about what they have going on there. Now, it may not be somebody's cup of tea if they're not into horror”

    Travis @ Evil Dead discussion — Acknowledges both the design achievement and the niche appeal of horror-themed pinball

  • “There are so many mechs in the game and they have different modes and different multi balls that all highlight different mechs... This game is full of moments.”

    Joel @ Evil Dead deep dive — Positive assessment of Evil Dead's mechanical variety and experiential design

  • “We've all had technical issues. We're making a very thorough... This is a sixth place podcast effort right here, guys.”

    Joel @ Self-aware commentary after audio issues — Hosts acknowledge irony of technical problems while discussing their 6th place Twippies finish

  • “if my whatever, my wife came down and I wanted her to experience the lower play field, we're kind of rolling the dice to see if we were lucky enough that she happens to get that mode”

    Joel @ Evil Dead mode selection critique — Critical observation about accessibility of advanced features in Evil Dead

Entities

Triple DrainorganizationJoelpersonTravis MosemanpersonTompersonThe Pinball NetworkorganizationSpooky PinballcompanyEvil DeadgameTexas Pinball FestivaleventTwippies

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Triple Drain Pinball Podcast officially transitioning from TPN to independent operation effective Episode 61, with dedicated YouTube channel and podcast feed

    high · Joel's clear announcement at episode start: 'Triple Drain, we are leaving TPN... Episode 61 and beyond, we are now independent'

  • ?

    community_signal: Twippies awards show results indicate Jaws as dominant game and X-Men emerging as innovation leader; Triple Drain's 6th place podcast finish suggests competitive content landscape

    high · Joel detailed Twippies results across multiple categories; noted Jaws dominated, X-Men surprised with Innovation win, Electric Bat Arcade won Best Podcast

  • ?

    product_launch: Evil Dead by Spooky Pinball entering market with 10-11 machines arriving at Texas Pinball Festival; appears to be early production phase with some manufacturing issues

    high · Joel's hands-on account of receiving Evil Dead with missing leg; Spooky bringing 10-11 units to TPF; Joel detailed game features and mechanics

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Evil Dead introduces horror-themed mechanical design with integrated LCD hide-and-seek mechanic, lower playfield access, mode-based storytelling approach

    high · Joel's detailed description of hide mechanic where screen goes dark and players focus on LCD; knock-off synchronized with red shot hacking mode; story-based modes reflecting movie scenes

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival 2025 preparing for major attendance with multiple manufacturers (Stern, Spooky) bringing showcase games; TPF annual karaoke night scheduled for Thursday evening before festival

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.246

0:00
We're three guys who like to talk and ball. So we came up with the class our name. We're Joel and Travis, got my tongue and ball. And we call ourselves Triple Train. We're Triple, Triple Train.
0:23
Okay, we're trying something new here. We're trying something new. That was awkward. I don't think Quarters likes it. No, it's incredibly awkward. We didn't even do an intro or anything. We're just playing a theme song from the beginning. So here's the deal. So first off, I know there are people that listen to this podcast that just skip ahead like five minutes every single episode. So normally we start the episode. Hey, are you ready? What's going on? We make fun of each other. You know, all the scripts, you know, the typical script that I write for us. You need to listen. Yeah, this this part is definitely keeping people from skipping for sure. Yeah. Right now. Oh, yeah. Oh, you want to get straight to pinball news. No, what I'm saying is normally we do that, but there's a change. There's a change going on, and the change is Triple Drain, we are leaving TPN. We are leaving the pinball network. There's nothing. There's no issues. There's no problems. There's no drama. There's nothing. Really what it comes down to was we did 30 episodes of just audio. So right around episode 30, we added video. We added video. We've been doing video now for 30 episodes. We just had episode 60. So here's a great transition point. Episode 61 and beyond, we are now, we're going to be independent. We're going to be independent. So what does that mean? Listeners or viewers, please pause the episode. And what you're going to want to do is you're going to want to go to whatever your podcatcher is and just search Triple Drain Pinball Podcast, and you should see a new podcast. Subscribe to that or follow that or like that. All of our previous episodes are there if for whatever reason you want to go back. but find the podcast is unique. And then if you're on YouTube, please pause the video. I'll put the link in the description. Search Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. And we've released our Triple Drain YouTube channel.
2:12

high confidence · Joel stated this to encourage attendees to play the game at the event

“I understand the three of us view pinball very differently. And I know you guys typically view games with a tournament mentality. You guys want to find a path. You want to find a repeatable, reliable way to points.”

Joel @ Evil Dead philosophy discussion — Articulates different player archetypes and design philosophies within the Triple Drain group

event
Jawsgame
X-Mengame
Dungeons & Dragonsgame
Electric Bat Arcadeorganization
Cary Hardyperson
Pirate Princess Jessperson
Stern Pinballcompany
[name withheld pending review]organization
Two Brothers Grill and Barvenue
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Flip N Out Pinballorganization
Fox Cities Pinballperson
Keith Elwinperson

high · Triple Drain hosts discussing TPF as major pre-event episode; detailed Stern booth expectations (D&D focus); Spooky Evil Dead machines confirmed; karaoke details provided

  • ?

    product_concern: Evil Dead shipping defects observed: Joel received unit missing one leg due to delivery issues; Spooky addressed by providing replacement leg

    high · Joel: 'when this game appeared to me, it only had three legs... they made it right'; he improvised solution using Stern legs

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Evil Dead mode selection mechanism uses randomized captain ball scrolling, creating potential accessibility issue for casual players wanting to access lower playfield content

    high · Joel's critique: 'if my wife came down and I wanted her to experience the lower play field, we're kind of rolling the dice to see if we were lucky enough'

  • ?

    content_signal: Triple Drain asking listeners to migrate to independent podcast feeds and dedicated YouTube channel from TPN; significant content creator transition in community

    high · Joel's repeated instructions to listeners to search 'Triple Drain Pinball Podcast' on podcatchers and YouTube; noted migration required but emphasized no content loss

  • ?

    code_update: Dungeons & Dragons has recent code updates but still missing two final wizard modes and one dungeon mode, suggesting ongoing development cycle

    high · Tom's report: 'there's still two final wizard modes that aren't in it and one dungeon mode that I know of but yeah nothing crazy to report'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Triple Drain hosts acknowledge their pinball game evaluation methods differ: Joel focuses on memorable moments and shared experiences; Travis considers casual consumer perspective; Tom prioritizes tournament/competitive meta

    high · Joel: 'I understand the three of us view pinball very differently... you guys typically view games with a tournament mentality'; Travis: 'I also have to actively think of it from an end consumer point'

  • ?

    venue_signal: Annual TPF karaoke night organized by Hanger Pinball from Tulsa, Oklahoma at Two Brothers Grill and Bar; 45-50 attendees expected; run from 9:30 PM to 1:30-2:00 AM Thursday night

    high · Travis promoted event with venue address, time details, and noted annual tradition with large attendance from previous year

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community recognition of Spooky Pinball's design achievement with Evil Dead; hosts acknowledge successful translation of difficult horror IP into engaging pinball mechanics despite niche appeal

    medium · Travis: 'the fact that they figured it out... speaks volumes about what they have going on'; Joel: 'did the property justice... Franchi crushed it'

    • So we may have one. This is a joint release right now on TPN and Triple Drain, but we may have one more of those. I don't know. But for future videos, you are going to want to see those on our dedicated YouTube channel. So sorry that you guys are going to have to put in a little bit of work to migrate over, but we appreciate you. We don't want to lose you guys as viewers or listeners. So please follow our unique channels. Travis, you had held up your hand about a minute ago and I ignored it. You have something you wanted to say. I'm just hoping like everybody didn't pause immediately right there. Like pause the channel before you talked about or pause the video where you start talking about what you need to. So ignore that previous pause and don't skip ahead. We have to establish all that. I was going to say we have to say it in the middle of the episode for the people that automatically skip ahead five minutes. We're going to have to because there's somebody out there that skipped ahead, and they're going to be like, what the hell is going on? Yep, yep, yep. So updates, updates. First off, Tom, we miss you. We missed you last week. Or not last week. We missed you last episode. Travis and I had to be nice to each other.
    3:21
    What are you talking about? Okay, that's horseshit. But that's what we agreed on, and Joel threw me under the bus within eight to ten minutes, and I just get memed to death, and I get messages nonstop. Like, yeah, whatever, Joel. I'm sure there were – I got tons of email, and people are like, did you leave Triple Drain?
    3:43
    No, you're a busy man. You're a busy – you're traveling America between work and tournaments, and we just – we can't – Are you like – We're barely locked down, yeah. Did you go cosplay as Walter White while you were gone, Tom? Yeah. No. I always wanted to be like Stone Cold Steve Austin. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You got a beard right now for 9 o'clock in the morning? You ready? No, I had that last night. Oh, okay. For the audio-only listeners, Tom has shaved his head. So we got a different – we had bearded Tom, so we got villainous Tom was added. That was a new thing roughly, I don't know, six months ago. Now we got a shaved head. So for the audio listeners, if you want to see Walter White, Tom Graff, go to the Triple Drain Pinball Podcast YouTube channel. You'll see it immediately. There's a good plug. Yeah. Well done. But don't pause. Don't pause the episode.
    4:34
    No, don't pause because you're listening to us on audio. You can keep it going and you can multitask. So this is perfect. Like put down Facebook, grab your iPhone, like do all that stuff. You're good. Tom, you're an unbiased opinion. You have seen Travis's calves in person. Oh, what the hell? Why are we still talking about this? They're half the size of Elwynn's. That's all right. All right. Fine. You know, Elwynn grew up in, like, California. There's, like, a lot of mountains.
    5:05
    It's obvious. Your calves just naturally get bigger. I got the feeling like Elwyn probably walks up a mountainside with like old like stone stairs just to go up into like the fiery pits of a temple to create whatever layout that he's creating. That's probably what it is. And meanwhile, me just chilling out in St. Louis, you know, just doing whatever. You guys haven't noticed, but Keith Elwyn, when he plays pinball, he stands on his tippy toes the whole time. Holy cow, that topper behind you is going crazy. Yeah, the Evil Dead topper. That's pretty cool. That topper's doing some calf raises right now. Imagine a topper doing something. That's what he's saying. He plays pinball on his tippy toes or does calf raises the whole time he plays. And he's not short. That's how he gets those calves. I knew I was messing up. It's fine. The real question is, guys, at TPF, I'm just going to wear jeans the whole time. He's wearing sweats. That's what I was going to say, guys. At TPF, just be nice to him. If you wear shorts. If anybody comes up being mean, I swear, I'm going to dick punch Joel as soon as I see him every single time. If you wear shorts the first day, people will be like, Travis, they're not that small. And he's like, he goes back and puts on sweats. I'm sorry, man. I'm not trying to make fun of your body. I'm not doing it. It's not fair to you. It's just. Body shaming, man. Body shaming. It's 2025. You can't do this, Joel. You're going to get canceled right now. Okay. Let's talk about TPF, Texas Pinball Festival. We always want to record an episode before TPF. We got to talk about Twippies first. You said that. I want to talk about Twippies because there was two of us here that was nominated and one of us just getting made fun of the whole time. Obviously, I just got made fun of. You two knuckleheads. How did you get made fun of? Who made fun of you? We felt more sorry for you than anything else. No, I'm just being gaslighted. You just spent the past five minutes talking about my legs again. Oh, I thought something was... Oh, no, no. I'm not talking about that. I don't care about being nominated and all that, except for everybody that didn't nominate me. I already told them. They're all dead to me, so the other ones were fine. No, you guys did semi-well. Because I honestly don't, except for a couple of the categories, I honestly don't know the results. I know the podcasting one because that was like a whole shit show on facebook i know game of the year okay we'll go through outside of that i don't know we'll go through what i was going to say is the the pinball degenerates award art this weekend maybe they added a sexiest leg category and you might have a shot on that you might yeah i already have a pinball genie award that's all i need yeah okay so twippies uh i'm not going to go through every category but essentially jaws dominated jaws dominated in pretty much every category. The Innovation of the Year was surprising. X-Men won that. The Danger Room is cool. I know that was one that did surprise me, that flip lock or Jaws, I think the 8-bit mode. I think Jaws was nominated for two Innovations of the Year.
    8:19
    But good on X-Men for winning that Innovation of the Year. Another big upset was Jaws won LCD. That's the first time that Jersey Jack hasn't won LCD.
    8:31
    Usually Jersey Jack has won like best LCD in animations literally every year. They dominate that. And then, yeah, overall it was a good showing. It was a good showing for Jaws. When it comes to creators, huge thank you to the people that voted. Flipping out, we got second for best video. And Tom, Fox City Spinball, got third. so we uh the out of the three of us two of us are uh top three top three video creators in pinball um yeah i'll just leave it at that there's no need to say anything more right so yeah thank you for anybody that voted for me tom do you want to thank your unless oh i was i was shocked i got nominated in the top three which was which was awesome i mean And I thank you. Yes. And so they combined streaming and video creator into one category this year. So Kerry Hardy, Kerry Hardy won best video creator. And then when when it came to best content creator, best overall content creator, flipping out pinball stream, we got third. We got third. Kerry Hardy won that. And then it was the winner for second was it was like Pirate Princess Jess or something. It's somebody I don't know. I don't I don't know them. So I'll have to look up their content. But yeah, anybody that voted on Flippin' Out there, appreciate that. Triple Drain, when it came to podcasts, we got sixth. We got sixth. So appreciate it. We're not working hard enough. Everybody that voted on us there. We got to put in the hours. That's what we got to do. Yeah, yeah. All right, guys. Saturday morning shows, Sunday night shows, Monday night shows, Thursday night shows. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. Paper year event at the end of the month. No, according to some. Tom's OnlyFans is coming over as well. We're going to do that. No, according to some people, the only way now to win Best Podcast is you have to own and operate an arcade and then get every one of your people to vote for you. Right? Isn't that the only way that somebody can win? What have I been telling you guys for the past four years? For the past four years, I've told you two knuckleheads that all it takes is just one company, one business to really want to win and they will win. Like no matter what, if Stern really wanted to win everything, they would. You just do a marketing campaign. If Jersey Jack really wanted to win a category, they could just do some marketing. If we wanted to do it, we could just do a shit ton of marketing. Like, you know, there's nothing that prevents that from happening.
    11:07
    what? Um, Travis's audio just cut in and out there a few times. I don't know if that's going to make it. We'll see if that makes it to the front. Yeah. He was, here's the deal. You weren't like this behind the curtains. I had a little technical difficulties. Tom had some technical difficulties before Travis was over. I don't get all cocky. Oh, the only one of us that wasn't nominated for a video twip. He didn't have audio issues today. So let's see. Uh, let's see. Yeah.
    11:35
    Oh my God. No. We're saying all this in jest. We're saying all this in sarcasm. Honestly, Kale and Rachel with Electric Bat Arcade, those are two of the nicest people in pinball. I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. The fact that they've made pinball literally their life and their livelihood. They deserve all the credit and love and appreciation that they get. So the fact that Electric Bat Arcade won Best Podcast, huge thumbs up, round of applause for them. That doesn't shock me. Yeah, that doesn't shock me at all because they have so many supporters and they work their asses off seven days a week doing a location. So, yeah, and it's one of the top locations in the entire world. There's nothing shocking that they're getting the fruits of their labor now.
    12:19
    Am I still going out? They are delivering a little bit. A little bit. We'll see. Oh, my gosh. What I'm saying, this is what I'll say. So, um, um, electric bat arcade, the fact that they, um, they actually release a lot of data that a lot of other podcasts don't because they can talk about games on route. What's doing well, what's not doing well, what mechs are working. I mean, they just have a very interesting perspective compared to a lot of other podcasts out there. Ours included, which is just our personal opinions and thoughts on pinball. So, um, yeah, a huge respect to them. Uh, what I'm going to do at this moment is I'm actually going to pause the recording to make sure that Travis's stuff doesn't keep breaking. So just say. So is this fine? So far. Everything's great. Everything's perfect. Are we good? We are good. We don't know.
    13:08
    For all the listeners, thanks for bearing with us. I don't know how much of that I'm going to cut, or I don't know how I'm going to edit that all together. But basically, what Travis discovered was somehow his computer was running on Wi-Fi because his kids unplugged his internet cable. So, yeah. But here we go. We're back. So the lesson is never have children that don't tell you what they're doing around your gaming stuff. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. So where were we? Were we on Twippies or TPF? I think we're good with Twippies. I think we're good on that. TPF, you did want to plug Thursday night, the Thursday night before the Twippies. Go ahead and plug away, Travis.
    13:46
    Karaoke. Yeah, I got to bring up the thing. So while he's bringing that up, there's a karaoke night. If any of the listeners want to join, go ahead, Travis. I'm totally ready. If we're on the YouTube, Joel, edit this in, put it up in front of us. If you can put up a picture of me and my body, you can definitely put up a picture of this poster. Anyway, so it's a karaoke party. I will put up a picture. I'm not going to promise it's the picture you want. Damn it. Okay.
    14:13
    There's a karaoke party down at TPF on Thursday night at Two Brothers Grill and Bar, which is at 8308 Preston Road in Plano. And that starts at 930 and it runs to like 130 or two in the morning. But it's like an annual thing that we do. Karaoke party that a group from Tulsa, Oklahoma, Hanger Pinball, they sponsor. We have like tables saved, put aside. So yeah, beautiful voice. Oh, yeah, I absolutely crush it. But it's a good time last year. There was like maybe 45, 50 of us there, I think, last year. And it's usually a full, full packed place, too. So it's a lot of fun. So you're going to karaoke and you're going to TPF. thursday night do that even if you're not going to embarrass myself doing it yeah there you go tom will be there joel though joel's i'm not flying until friday morning so it's fine but even if even if you don't sing like still you can come on out you're not forced to sing you just hang out with us chill out have a drink have fun talk pinball all that okay all right thank you joel i appreciate it um tpf tpf well uh yeah this is our pre-tpf episode so we usually like to roll through what to expect what are you going to see what are you not going to see um all three of us will be there please if you see us there at tpf come say hi we'd love to talk to you um but yeah let's just start look like we're confused for a minute just ignore it just lead if you see just lead tom back to the tournament area you know just if i'm actively playing a tournament game and you interrupt me i might might punch you yeah okay yeah how about that he's so aggressive let's threaten our audience yes that audience that we're asking the audience that we're asking to jump ship with us please if you've subscribed to the new one just don't touch Tom when he's playing that's how serious Tom takes his tournament if you see Joel playing on a machine just go up there and shake the shit out of it while he's playing we were talking about evil dead we were before we were before travis had technical difficulties the the one that was bragging about not okay now we're all we've all done all right i will 61 episodes and we're all still struggling i will spend 30 seconds on this put it into the record joel who is it who is the only one that didn't have any issues at the very beginning of this as soon as we got into the room and we're just chilling out for like first 20 30 minutes travis you did not have any issues until you had issues. You're right. Okay. So Evil Dead. Let's talk about Evil Dead. Thomas not played it. I have now, I've had this game in my house for a few days. So I have a few hours of play on it. Exactly. It scares me. It's the only game. It's the only game I've ever borrowed from Zach where honestly, I have to, I cover it in blankets. I fold the head down and I cover it. Like our kids, my kids have not seen it because I don't want, they see that topper one time and they will, my son will be in our bed for weeks. So, um, with all that said, I might be in my wife's bed for a week.
    17:28
    Uh, with all that said, the game is, um, Franchi crushed it. Like the art on the game, the game looks so beautiful in person. It looks, and the topper is obscene in person. It's, it's, um, if you look at on the video, uh, once again, the video on our YouTube channel, If you do look, you will see that this game is a few inches higher than the other ones. There was an issue. Nothing was flipping out. There was an issue with the delivery of another game. There was a missing leg. So they gave one of the evil dead legs. In the meantime, once again, nothing was flipping out. So they made it right. So when this game appeared to me, it only had three legs. And we got creative. So we put four stern legs on it just so I could stream the game. So this game is currently on four stern legs, which is why it's higher. It's a wide body, so it just feels like an XL game in all areas. It's taller and it's wider. Could you imagine you unboxed a game and you're like, There's three. There's only three legs. What do I do? But Travis, stuff happens. You know this. You work for a pinball distributor. Stuff happens. Honestly, here's what I would do. I would run out, buy a bar stool, and just put it in the back of the game. Well, I get it. I understand. Put the two legs on. Yes. I mean, that would be my temporary solution. But anyways, go ahead, Joel. They made it right, and I got creative to make this right. And this is – so it's on stern legs, so it's taller. So I just – I don't want any evil dead buyer to see this and be like, what? Is that going to light up? No, no. It'll fit well. Now, this topper, though, will stand out in your collection because it's incredible. uh my wife also put two bobby pins in the hair for me because the hair was like all down in front of the face and and i was like nicole can you like put her hair back so i actually have a good picture i'll add that picture now i'll add that picture now my wife did she comment to her i don't you know she just kind of but anyways uh evil dead travis you have played evil dead what are your initial impressions of Evil Dead to let the listeners slash viewers know what they should expect when they play it at TPF. We're just the same as last week.
    19:48
    I'm sorry. I can't right now. Between legs and bobby pins and Tom being in bed with his wife for a week, I mean, we're kind of all over the place right now. Threatening our listeners to punch him in the face. Welcome to Triple Drain, everybody. Hey, I share my fantasies with everybody.
    20:06
    I mean, we could really dive in on which part of all of that is your fantasy, but let's... Yes. Okay. All right. That explains why I have so many kids. Yeah yeah yeah yeah Okay what I will say Joel getting so Yeah let stay on topic No I just I don even know what to do at this point We've... I would say the episode's gone off the rails, but the episode... I don't know if the episode even started on the rails. It's because it's Friday. I know. We've all had technical issues. We're making a very thorough... This is a sixth place podcast effort right here, guys. I'm super proud of us. Yes, yes. Yes. So what was your question, Joel? I asked you if you want to share more thoughts on Evil Dead before I do, you're welcome to at this point. No, I mean, I just played a couple of games on it. It's fine. It was fun. It was a pinball machine. Evil Dead 1, Evil Dead 2. I mean, yeah, I think it's one of their more interesting games they've come out with. I'm more interested in this than Texas Chainsaw Massacre, than Looney Tunes. Sorry, I'm still trying to keep it together. You're good. um yeah so that's it yeah that's that's all i got that's a solid review i will say i want to i want to play it more at tpf i want to play with you guys i want to play it down there with you know bug or luke by there so that way you know kind of like when they explained out texas chainsaw massacre to us that one year joel that way we can kind of get super helpful yeah that way we can get more explanations because i'm genuinely curious you know it's um horror it's interesting because I watch a lot of it like on my downtime as movies, like always have since I was a kid. So I'm fascinated by it as a pinball machine, because obviously, you know, it's it's a very niche thing of a niche thing that they've carved out. So I'm always interested to see how that can be integrated in. And Evil Dead is just such an interesting franchise because I personally don't really like the first two movies. I've seen them like several times because I just, you know, for whatever reason, I've just been different situations to see it. But the third one, Army of Darkness, like I really like like that one. I really enjoy it. But it's just it's interesting because when you look at Evil Dead, if you watch the movie, if you never watched it, you'll watch it. You'll be like, how the F can this be a pinball machine? Like, how do you even begin? I think that's the feeling everybody gets. So the fact that they figured it out, it seems like they figured it out, is like to me that speaks volumes about what they have going on there. Now, it may not be somebody's cup of tea if they're not into horror or into having, you know, that type of topper in their basement because they got to cover it up all the time like Joel does. But, you know, there's obviously a group of people out there that thoroughly enjoy that. So that's good that they're able to create a product that serves that particular niche or that particular customer base. I agree. There's what I will say with Evil Dead. I've only seen the first one. I actually watched it earlier this week. I need to watch the second one before I stream it next week. But if you're a fan of Evil Dead, they did the property justice.
    23:20
    It's all there. The audio clips, the video clips, the art is on point. And then, honestly, the way it's set up, you have four modes that are based off of the first movie. you have four modes that are based off the second movie and the modes are, are awesome. They're, they're story-based modes. Like you are playing out a scene, you're playing out something that happened in the movie. So you're not living in the world of evil dead. Like, no, you're experiencing the, the situations that the, that the people faced. I was very curious how horror was going to work, uh, in pinball. But, um, honestly, one of the, one of the modes you're being chased by evil and you have to, at one point you have to hit a bunch of shots and then you have to hide. So you can hide in any of the areas that you can lock a ball. So the cellar under the ramp and then like the machine goes dark. And so you're focusing on the LCD where like ash is like peeking out and then there's like a jump effect. So it's like they really brought a lot of the theme. There's some of the modes. There's this hacker up. I think hack them up or hacker up mode where you're hitting red shots. and it's the scene where the guy's using the axe to chop up this zombie lady. And every time you hit a red shot, the knocker's going off. So not only do you see it on the screen, but the audio package is fantastic. You're hearing the chopping and the screaming.
    24:44
    The game itself is crazy lighting effects, and then you have this knocker going off, making this knocking sound while you're hacking away. So long story short, just because I'm going to play this game a lot more, my brother and I had a blast playing this this week.
    25:00
    We're a sucker. I understand the three of us view pinball very differently. And I know you guys typically view games with a tournament mentality. You guys want to find a path. You want to find a repeatable, reliable way to points. So I understand that. Even D&D, you know, we've had a lot of conversations about D&D of, like, Travis has been tackling D&D in a different way than I do. Not all the time. I know you're doing the, because I know at home you do wizard modes. You got to remember, Joel, you're thinking of my own personal thing. I also have to actively think of it from an end consumer point. And the most consumers are not tournament players. So like I have to shut that off whenever I'm actually like formulating. Okay, what is this game? What does it mean? What does it do? What are the sounds? Like that's truly how I judge it. Like points or whatever. Like that's cool and all. But honestly, what we all have to do, we all want to make a certain amount of progress in the game, right? Some people want to get to a wizard mode. Some people just want to light a certain mode. Some people just want to play multi-ball, right? It's at different levels. So I think that's truly like kind of the way that you look at it. But no, I agree. I think all three of us look at it from the standpoint of what is our priority when enjoying pinball. Sure. So for some people, it's absolutely blowing up a machine. For others, it's just trying to keep the ball above the flippers. My, yes. And I know, to me, I just, I love pinball moments. I love the mini wizard modes or the unique experience with the game. Something on the game that just stands out. And obviously, and then I want those moments. I want to be able to share those moments with friends and family or anybody else that step up to the game. So that's why I like, you know, on a Godzilla that my nephew of eight years old can hit the building and see the building fall down, you know, like and he can experience that moment. But yet there's stuff in a game like Godzilla that's way deeper that are fun, enjoyable pinball moments for all three of us at all three of our different levels.
    27:02
    What I will say with Evil Dead is this game is full of moments. There are so many mechs in the game and they have different modes and different multi balls that all highlight different mechs. And so I think my only complaint with the game right now is to see a lot or experience some of these mechs like the lower play field. Right now, to get to the lower play field, there's only a few modes that get you there. And the process of starting a mode is you have to hit a ramp and then hit under a ramp, which is easy. But to select your mode, it's somewhat random. You have to hit a captain ball to scroll through your mode. So it's like for the average Joe, if my whatever, my wife came down and I wanted her to experience the lower play field, we're kind of rolling the dice to see if we were lucky enough that she happens to get that mode to experience the lower play field. So there's little stuff like that, that I that I'm curious how the game's going to progress. But as of right now, it seems like a very fleshed out game. All the modes are in the game. And we had an absolute blast playing it for two hours and we're looking forward to playing it more. So if you have an Evil Dead on order, I honestly think you're going to enjoy this game. You're going to enjoy the game, and I highly recommend anybody at TPF to play it. Very unique layout.
    28:14
    Tom, are you going to play it? It's great. We can get you away from the tournament room. Okay, cool. Just want to make sure you don't have to punch anybody to get to it or anything. That's all. If you're in line and I'm waiting too long, I might punch you.
    28:28
    But we'll just transition into TPF. I mean, that's essentially spooky. Spooky Pinball is going to be down there. They're going to have Evil Dead. I think they're bringing in 10 or 11 of them, so there's going to be a bunch. So try to hop on them. What I will say, if you don't know what's going on, to start a mode, you're going to hit a white shot, and then you're going to hit under the right ramp. That's how you start your mode. Other than that, it communicates pretty well. It communicates pretty well what you need to do and how to do it to play the game. So big thumbs up. Make sure you make time to play Evil Dead.
    28:59
    Let's transition to Stern. Stern Pinball, I'm assuming, will be mostly showing off Dungeons & Dragons, probably Metallica because Metallica, yeah, I would assume Metallica, Dungeons & Dragons, X-Men, Jaws will probably be there, WIC. There's going to be a bunch of games, but I would assume Dungeons & Dragons is going to be the main game they're going to be highlighting or having people play. there has been new code since I've played it last but there's still most of the games there there's still two final wizard modes that aren't in it and one dungeon mode that I know of but yeah nothing crazy to report I mean maybe you guys have played it more than I have in the last two three weeks but anything else to report any new findings any new thoughts on D&D well Tom I haven't really heard your thoughts on D&D I haven't played it that much to be honest just because I've been gone so much. Yeah.
    29:57
    But, yeah, I don't really have an opinion of it right now. It shoots fine, but I need to get deeper into the game. Yeah, I think that's fair. I know Travis has made plenty of content on it. Have you played it much yet, Tom? No, not yet. Like literally I played like five or ten games. I streamed it one night, and that's really all I had time for. Did you stream it on location, or do you have one at your house? It's right behind him. I just saw he's got the cube. That blue cube right there. Yeah, your guy's screen is so small I can't see it. Oh, okay. Well, crap. What are you doing talking to us? You should be playing pinball. I know. I've had other things going on too. but oh like it's a busy man were you at a tournament recently i was at a tournament i ran a tournament well i helped run our tournament oh yeah me obviously but the whopper chopper is that what you're talking about was awesome tom puts in the work travis you know i'm aware gotta go to tpf in a week i mean there's there is like no time for anything well yes play dungeon and the dragon i don't know who all be there i assume brian eddie maybe dwight i think elizabeth gieski all those people have you know obviously worked on the game so um if they're there say hi to them pull them aside um they'll they'll be happy to talk to you about the game um i'm looking forward to playing it i'm at a point i mean i've had people ask they're like do you miss it what about this or that um i really enjoyed my time with dnd um i feel like being that i've i've played every part of the game right now i don't i don't actively miss it because i don't feel like i'm missing any out on anything, but I'll tell you once they release the next wizard mode or the chance to unlock another character, I very much so want to, want to play the game and, and keep chipping away at it and, and see how that game continues to flesh out. Um, but yeah, I, I, I really had a lot of fun with D and D. Um, but that, I mean, that's stern. That's, that's, that's stern. Um, JJP, JJP, uh, I, unless they're going to announce something in the next three days or whatever, I don't think JJP is going to have anything new at, uh, at TPF. My assumption would be avatar. Um, it'll still be avatar. I know CEs are finally being delivered to the customers. So maybe they'll have a CE on location or, um, at the show. I don't really know. Um, but yeah, if you haven't experienced avatar, hopefully TPF will be a chance to experience that. Um, looking ahead though, I do think a new JJP game is around the corner. Uh, the rumor is Harry Potter. and I think that's going to be big even if the game, it doesn't matter Tom joked around that he would have bought Rush if it had one pop bumper in the middle of the playfield but it's true, there are people Harry Potter's going to it's going to sell regardless of what the game is so it's going to be big and I'm excited for JJP to see how that goes I mean once again, that's a rumor though so if it's something else it'll be what it is I mean, Harry Potter's a theme I really love, but I definitely want to see what's in the game and how it's coded. I've been really disappointed with last year's coding for games. I kind of wanted to talk about that. Of every, sure. Of all companies? Most games. Most games seem really behind on code, and, I mean, where is it?
    33:43
    So let's, okay, so if we're talking about last year's games. So let's start with, what, John Wick? Yep.
    33:53
    Where's the code? I mean, there's a game there. Keep going. but like there's no wizard modes or anything.
    34:05
    Um, you can tell some stuff on the play field isn't, uh, integrated. Yeah. It's just kind of weird. Um, obviously X-Men, they rushed out.
    34:19
    D and D is got a lot of stuff going for it, but there's been known crashes and things like that. But, yeah, I mean, speaking as a consumer, it's not a good feeling when you buy these games and they seem like they're left for dead. Or at least you have to wait a year or two for the code to develop. So, yeah, it's definitely it's a unique thing in pinball that I'm kind of seeing. And I think I've talked to you guys about this off podcast before, kind of what the general flow of this is through the lifespan of a game. And I haven't really heard anybody else really put into words because I don't know unless you actually work in pinball and sell the games. You really don't realize what's happening, like in the middle at the beginning of a first run, in the middle of a first run, the end of it, the beginning of a second run, so on and so forth. but what I've noticed a lot, there is a lot of pushback there coming from people that want to see rules or call outs or just any type of software based feature a little bit further along than what it is out of box.
    35:37
    Now I'm not going to pretend like I know all the answers because Joel and I talked about this last podcast. I have no idea what goes into coding a game or anything like that. But what I do see is what people's reactions are that are spending the money to buy these games early on and wanting to experience different parts of the game. And I fully am in the group that you need your first 10 minutes just to be super tight, like nothing but focusing on that, because that's what everybody on location is going to experience. That's what a home user is obviously going to experience. Anybody that hits the start button, that's what they experience. Now, what I've noticed is if that first 10 minutes isn't tight, the people that play the games are like if they're part of a message board inside on a Facebook group, whatever, they're going to voice their opinion and they're going to let you know. And that's strictly the pinball enthusiasts. Now, here's what happens afterwards. if somebody brand new to pinball discovers that this game exists they're going to use this little search engine called google and they're going to look up information on it and when all they run into is pin side and a full thread of people bashing the game or a full thread of you know on facebook they look it up and they see people you know talking about how well they're disappointed in this or they're wondering where this is or whatever that's like why would they want to go ahead and buy that game like it makes it to where it makes it awfully difficult for a second run yeah i think and yeah and discovery to happen six to twelve months down the road it makes it very difficult you know let's be honest consumers have a very like first impression you know like i when i go up and i play a game for the first time i i want to enjoy the experience If I don't enjoy the experience, I tend not to want to go back to the game.
    37:34
    So if the games aren't coded well, functioning well, it's a turnoff. I mean, that's all valid. What you're saying is all valid because I've seen the same thing. Like full transparency, I've seen the same thing with fun houses. Fun houses get out there. They don't work correctly. Guess what? That's going to piss somebody off. They're going to tell everybody. I guarantee you I could go on Pennside right now and probably find a thread of somebody pissed off about that game. We could probably wrote it. Yeah, I don't I don't do that. I mean, we could probably go. We could go anywhere and find something that somebody's pissed off about about some game. Oh, yeah. And that doesn't mean at all that their opinion is invalid. But what Tom's saying is hitting the nail on the head. what really matters is how they're feeling emotionally about a game. And if you spend seven to $13,000 on a game and you get it in and you're playing it and yeah, you're enjoying it for the first 10, 20, 50 games, however long. But then when you keep playing it and you're kind of wondering, okay, what's next? Okay. What's next? Then you start talking with other people and you start getting other opinions. I mean, human nature, a lot of us, we will listen to opinions and it will have a formulation on what we think about something like that will be our filter to what we're going to see. So it's like anything else, the five people you surround yourself with, or the five pieces of content creators that you usually consume. That's the filter that you're going to see a lot of things through, whether it's right or wrong, that's what you're going to see. So I really do believe that for all manufacturers, like of course, build quality, that's number one, But number two is getting the code, like just really dialed in early on, because if you get people praising your game that quickly and they're saying, oh, the code's great. Oh, yeah, this is excellent. Oh, this mode's really fun. They're going to post about that. They're going to be your biggest cheerleaders and then new people that are looking up that game. That's all they're going to see. And they're going to feel good about that. They're going to feel good about looking down that road for that purchase. And Tom is like saying everything right now. He's he's preaching. This is exactly what is happening, like down to the minute level. That's what's happening. I will say I understand I'm in a unique position because I have a chance to play these games. I have no financial connection to them, so it's not like I have this guilt of, like, did I waste my money or anything. I just have the game. But I know a lot after that first two-hour stream. And what I mean by that is, you know, if in a two-hour stream I feel like I've experienced the game, like, to me, that's not a game I want to own. Like, if I can fully experience the game in two hours, like, okay. Or, like, I want to leave that stream itching to play it more, to discover more. So, you know, mechanically, there's an aspect of that. Like X-Men, I love the mechanical aspect of X-Men. I love the kinetic satisfaction of shooting that game. but I know within the first stream, like, okay, all the modes are right there. You can pick whatever you want So it very easy to to play all the modes because they all available And then you beat two of them and you in the future And it like well uh you know check the box Like it like I experienced So you said you know Travis is important that that first 10 minutes is tight My issue with X-Men is anybody can experience that first 10 minutes easily, but then there's, that's it. Like that's all they have. But there's a difference between experiencing it. And is it tight enough to where it emotionally connects you to where you're like, I want to, I want to do that again. Yeah. That's the difference. That's the replay. Like anything's going to have a 10 minute experience. We could go on any game. Sure. Have that. Are we going to want to keep having that experience? And that's in pinball. I always talk to you guys about you need these many hooks, right? Just like content creation. You need a hook to convince somebody that they want to plunge the ball. You need a hook to convince somebody that you want them to hit a certain shot. And you use that hook through call outs, through light, through just like a fun, like connection, right? flippers to whatever shot flow you have. And that all that's like super important. I mean, human nature is we're going to go back to what feels good. We're going to go back to what makes sense. And that's why we all have games. Right. And anybody listening to this could probably could probably understand what we're about to say that multiple people that have multiple games in their collection, there's always going to be one or two that you always go back to. Sure. Right. It's like old faithful. You're going to go back to it. It's a good palate cleanser. that's the sign of a solid game for you. And that game could be anything like for some people, it could be wick for some people. It could be X-Men. Some people, it could be evil dead. Some people, it could be galactic tank force. I don't know. People have different, you know, different opinions, different ones, but that's, I think that's really the key. And like, when I think of pinball, I think of, okay, how can I make it to where somebody plays the game and they enjoy it the way that we want them to enjoy it because the behavior we encourage right is behavior we're going to get out of somebody like that's what they're going to do and so i'd rather encourage the behavior to keep coming back to want to play different modes to want to do different stacks to want to hear different sounds to explore the game because i think exactly yep that's that's where you get your money's worth right there i think you've explained that well because i'm now i'm thinking back on like, okay, if I step up to a game of TPF that I've had, that I've streamed, it's like, what is it that I want to experience? Like, what is it that I'm missing? So if I, you know, which modes in D&D do I want to play? Because I miss playing those modes or which dungeon or which multiball or same thing with X-Men. And I think honestly, right now, there isn't an X-Men. When I streamed it, there isn't any mode that stood out to me in a way that I like, oh, I can't wait to play that mode again because of whatever.
    43:48
    And yeah, WIC is similar. You know, I think I was so confused while playing WIC. I like the layout, but it's just like I really didn't know at the time the modes really weren't coded in a way that there was no information on the LCD to tell me what I was supposed to do. So the modes are forgettable because I never understood them. So I understand that hopefully games like those, the code can really get fleshed out. Well, I think of some of my other games that I do miss where it's like, yeah, I can't wait to step up to play this, to experience that. And that's something that I know my brother, when we finished streaming. My brother, he's above a novice, but he doesn't really get, he doesn't dive into rules.
    44:28
    But he was locked in on Evil Dead. And honestly, the reason I'm excited to play it more is because all these modes have two phases. So it's like you can get pretty far into a mode and then you realize, oh, there's more there. Like there's a whole other phase to experience. So some of these modes have already stood out to me and it's the beginning phase. Like I want to dive back in to experience the full mode. Now, I fully trust the two of you guys are good enough players. You can, you know, when you guys probably play this at TPF, you'll probably beat the whole mode. You'll beat every phase. But yeah, you want that hook. You're saying, yeah, which which games have really hooked me? Pinball moment or modes or something of like, why am I pushing the start button again? Why do I want to play this again? Well, deeper. And I think, too, where people tend to kind of go sideways on it is they get so enamored with a mech. Right. And a mech can be cool. It can be a central part of a pinball machine. But how does that gel with everything else that you're trying to achieve in that game? How what's the fusion of it with a light show, with a sound, with a rule? Otherwise, it's just a mech that just moves or catches the ball. But, yeah, that looks cool. But we could also go see that at our local science museum doing something like that. Right. You have to add everything else into it. Yeah, it's got to make got to make sense for the game. Yes. And the flow of the game and the story or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, you can't just arbitrarily put mechs in a game and think it's going to be great. It doesn't necessarily make a game great. Yeah. Well, it's only great, Tom, and you guys remember this because we were all novices once. It's only great to the people that are basically within their first six months of pinball or they're super brand new, never seen it before because it's the first time they've ever seen it. They're like, oh, this is really cool. But then when you start understanding how you can control the flippers, there's different rules. there's different manufacturers, there's different layouts. Then that novelty tends to wear off a little bit. And then you look at the additional layers on top of it. And that's kind of the key. Like we could probably all like, let's do this because I want to include you too in on this. Like what's the one game like in the past five years that you guys could think of that did have like a really cool mech to it? Like any game to where you're like, oh, that's really cool. That was super enjoyable. I want to keep doing that.
    46:52
    Just anything. Any manufacturer past five years? You said five years. We could say ever if you want to. We could say ever. Well, the two, and if I really thought about it, there's probably better answers. But I know just like playing Jaws, I really enjoy, I really love the flip block mech. I really, and I love the upper play field, getting to the upper play field and trying to do it. Like that's something that never got old. and then the other one that actually popped in my head which is probably because it's the only thing that I miss about the game but Toy Story, the Duke Kaboom ramp, the Duke Kaboom ramp was such a fun mech in my mind, oh I'm thinking that's the other thing with Jaws, having the moment where the fin pops up, you know, and having to hit that, that is an enjoyable moment that everybody that played that game liked but the Duke Kaboom ramp is the one mech and I know it's nothing crazy but it's like if I stepped up to Toy Story right now That's the only thing that I miss. And that's the only thing I want to experience again. Like I want to hit that ramp. Right. But what about hitting that ramp? Because if we just put like a little jump ramp in the middle, like on a whitewood and say, yeah, I hit it. You're going to be like, OK. But like what else attached to that made you feel like, OK, like I want to keep doing this. Well, what else is there? It's not always there. And so it's only for particular modes. You got to hit a particular shot and you get one shot at it. So if you miss it, it's an experience. You miss, it's like, crap, I got to hit the shot. Oh, here's my chance. Here's my chance. Boom. So there's buildup. Same thing with the fin on Jaws. That fin's not always up. It's not just a stand-up target. It's moving. It's a moment. Take your shot. Try to hit it.
    48:34
    That right there is a prime example because you're emotionally invested to completing it. That's the key. The game can get you to do that through any way that the mech moves, through any sound that you have, through any reward that you have for doing it. That's like the key. That's the full package. Right, Tom? What's yours? I was just going to say the fin on Jaws.
    48:57
    Okay. And prime example here. Besides just hitting the fin, Tom, like what else is associated with that? Like what do you do in order to even bring the fin up? Well, you got to start a multi-ball or like complete your encounter jackpot. I mean, that's like once that comes up, like you play scars and you're hitting all the shots and all of a sudden that fin pops up. You just want to nail it, you know. Yep. And there you go. And it pops up red. You know, you kind of see things change a little bit. The visual cues, the sound cues, you know, like when the multi-ball progression starts, It's like kill it, shoot it now. Now, you know, like that's an exciting moment in pinball right there. Yeah, exactly. And that's like truly like once you unlock this part in your brain and for the listeners out there, viewers like think about that one mech like you really, really like and think about it outside the box. And it's not just because of what the mech is. It's the things that add on to it, the surrounding atmosphere. and that's really where you get the winners right there. Like that's what stands out so much more than everything else. And when the lights, the sound, the rules around that can be excellent, then that makes like the tight game, right? Yeah, absolutely. So when we look at, you know, we could take X-Men, for instance, right? Like why is it not jiving with some people? Like why do people not like the X-Men hand or the Sentinel hand just like crashing down the ramp and the ball just like shooting down the middle or, you know, whatever. Like what about that isn't appealing to people? Because it's not rewarding when you hit a shot and a ramp breaks and the ball goes down the drain, your ball ends. Yeah, it hurts you more than it helps you. Yeah, I know I've said that before.
    50:55
    But yeah, that was just a frustrating thing. Like you, oh, I made a shot. oh it just killed me yeah and there you go cool and that may not yeah right and that could be prevented by not just allowing the mech just to do that and that's it it there could be a whole mode tied into that that you're actually battling the sentinel but you have a ball save on while that's happening so you don't feel nearly as like honey dipped at the time that the ball is just shooting down the lane. There's ways that you can work around that. Very true. And yeah, that would make, that would maybe make that mech more appealing and fun. Yeah, absolutely. Because it's like, yeah, it could be a cool mech. Oh shit, I'm battling a Suttinal. Yes, like obviously Jack put that in for it to be cool. Like, right? That's why it's there. Now it just needs to be implemented. it like there's too much time in that game if you play it it feels like obviously it's not random there is indications but for 95 of the people it's going to be random like they're not going to see the visual cue or the audio cue right on the hand yeah right they won't know well what i mean i do i do like x-men but i think it's because of the shots but i think somebody somebody made the comments of like oh cool so shots they either said shots or ramps or the new mech. And it's just a, sure, there's kinetic satisfaction when the ball is whipping around in a unique way. But I understand what you're saying, that if the mechs in the game aren't special, if they don't make a moment, if they don't bring you in, if they don't, if it's just there, if it's just a bash toy that's always there, you can bash it whenever you want. All right. Prime example here, Joel. Oh, I'm ready. The spinner on Evil Dead, what do you think about it? So the spinner on Evil Dead It's right up the middle You can hit it all day long But the one reason I like it Is because the audio cue Is a chainsaw So when you hit it It's a It makes you smile It makes you laugh Something so simplistic You can really draw it out AIQ does that also With the spinner on the left The Hulk spinner That right there Yes. And that's like the whole package coming together. When the gamma ray goes off, I got to hit this thing. Every team out there is capable of doing this. Every single team out there is capable of doing it. It's just a matter of taking what is usually in every pinball machine. Right. Could be a pop bumper. Could be a sling. Could be something like, OK, D&D. Like Elizabeth coming up with the stealth slings. Like that's something unique. A sling is on every single game. and now it's like, okay, I don't want to hit it because I want to not alert the guards or I could be like Tom and I want to punch the shit out of it so I'm just going to hit the slings anyways and I'm going to go for it. That's a good point. She made a mech. She made that mode make a mech. You're right. The slings are in every game so nobody ever considers that a mech to talk about or be excited about. Right. That made it exciting? That made it exciting. That's a really good point. Iron Maiden did the same thing with the second Tomb Award. when the slings become worth like $250,000 or something like that. Right, super slings or something like that. Yeah, so now you're like, oh, I want to get Mummy Multi-Baller Trooper with this and put two or three X so I can keep something going. Yeah, that's what really meshes things together and makes it feel really good to even just do the simple things. I think that would be a fun activity to do is to sit down with, look at each individual pinball machine and let's break down every mech, whether it's spinner, drop target, stand-up target, anything, And it's like, is that piece of hardware at some point bringing like a value or like bringing experience to this game? That's game theory 101, game building 101. Like every I truly feel like if I was designing a game, which I'm not, I have no idea how to. I'm just telling you my mindset to it. Maybe you guys are the same mindset. Maybe I have a different one. If I'm building a game, I want a reason for everything to exist in that. and I want to try to make it, it doesn't have to be the star of the show, but I want it to chain together with something else to where it makes total sense for it to be there and it makes the player feel like, okay, it belongs. Instead of having a shot or a certain piece of equipment or whatever that just is like, okay, why is this here? Why do I want to shoot this? I want to avoid that. I just want to hit this instead. You know, it's like, there's going to be a hierarchy of priority anyway of everything. But you still want it to piece together, and that's just proof right there. Like some people have figured out how to make slings fun. Some people have figured out how to make pop bumpers fun, like Godzilla, the saucer. You hit that pop bumper. It starts with freaking multi-ball.
    55:56
    Rick and Morty figured it out, like on the Spooky Game, right? That was interesting. I was going to – like TNA. TNA has one pop bumper. But the fact that the light show goes nuts and the shaker motor goes off every time you hit it, It makes it a, it's that mini moment of just like, it scares you. Yeah. Think about that. We're talking about a game with a pop bumper making like a standout moment, a pop bumper. Yeah. Like we figured out slings, spinners, pop bumpers. There you go. You can do it. Those necks are there. Yep. Yeah. Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Yeah. That's a good TED talk. So sorry, everybody. I started that, but. No, Tom was right. Actually, Travis and Joel made me feel better. No, Tom, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's a lot of people feeling that way, and rightfully so. And I mean, it's like anything else. I think everybody in the pinball industry wishes that they could bring out a game that's like 100% polished, 100% done. Well, and I understand that, you know, the games aren't going to come out 100%, But, I mean, it just seems like some of these games are just forgotten. Yeah, you're just saying you want the medium rare when it comes out. You don't want it rare. Yeah, that's all you're saying.
    57:22
    It's tough. I understand that's tough, especially with Stern. They're still on three cornerstones a year. Rumor is they're going to throw in a remake as well. I mean, they're trying to put out a lot of product. and I actually had that thought I'm not just here to talk up Evil Dead but it's like there's a difference when you have a company like Spooky or a company like Barrels of Fun where the entire company is focused on one project for a year and a half and I understand Stern has design teams so that design team has one project for 15 months maybe a year and a half but there's just something about when it's like when an entire company can put everything they have into one and focus in on one game That's why I was super impressed when Labyrinth came out. The game was essentially complete. But yet, the team was actively participating in streams and adapting and adjusting the code based off of how they're seeing people play. And then I'm seeing that with Evil Dead. Like, Evil Dead, sure, I don't think the Final Wizard mode's in the game. But, like, it feels like a very fleshed-out game. And I know Bug and Luke and others are actively watching the game and reacting and tweaking.
    58:26
    I'm actually excited to play Evil Dead. I want to check it out for sure. You did use the right phrase, though, and that's the key. A game can be completely unfinished as long as it feels like there's something there. And when you feel like there's something there, then the game's on the right path. It's when a player doesn't feel that something is there. Because if you don't feel like it's there, you're going to tell everybody about it. If you feel like something's there, you're going to tell everybody about that, too. And it kind of gives coverage, you know, for the future updates and future tweaking and all that. Yeah. Well, we need to keep moving. I know. Let's keep moving. We've got a lot of time. We've got a lot of time doing all of our tech issues.
    59:08
    One of the big reveals, and I don't have 100% confirmation on this, but there's a very good chance that Multimorphic will have their next game at TPF. Which is rumored to be Portal, correct? That's the rumor. The rumor is Portal. um they have announced that brad albright is the artist they've announced that and then they also announced i think it's even ian harrowman heroine uh i harrower i have a hard time pronouncing it um ian i'm trying sorry bud he's either the game designer or the program he's highly involved so they've already announced so these are two new additions brad albright his art is fantastic so new additions to the game they have not announced what it is I do know Loser Kid Loser Kid's been doing a lot with with Multimorphic in the last few weeks feel free to check out their content if you're curious about it so I would assume you know watch them I will assume they'll be involved in the reveal in some way but yeah I mean that's we're talking I mean I'm going to be at TPF exactly a week from now so sometime in the next few days that will be announced so we really I don't have much to say. Otherwise, play it. If you've never played a P3 system, it's a unique experience all around. I do think every game that they've released is getting, like, it's only getting better, in my opinion, or they've improved upon it. With all that said, the system is 10 years old at this point. So I'm just, I'm curious how far they're going to push it. If there's another iteration of the system coming. I don't know. I don't, you know, there are questions there. I think the only way to go from right now, if you're not doing a new system and you're keeping with that older system or just the P3 system in general, I think it's figuring out a way to get the mix, the play field or anything to do with the module in front of the scoops a little bit more. Which goes against what their bread and butter is, which is that interactive LCD screen or whatever you call it, the screen in the middle. right but I feel like yeah I feel like you gotta get some mechs in front of the scoops there like you gotta get some shot paths going on that has to go beyond just the screen interacting with the ball yeah like that that kind of what i hoping to see with this next one like i i feel like we going down that path right we can always stick to the upper one-third of the play field i think yeah there's got to be a way to put something there to where it does come in front of there like i think heist kind of did that well yeah yeah yeah it's not a permanent mech it's not like a mech that resides on top right no I'm talking about something that's modular. If they could somehow figure that out, I think that that would be a unique enough value prop that would make a game stand out a little bit more. We'll definitely have to report back on that. That's the one that I can think of. That's the one new game I'm really confident will be there.
    62:10
    Barrels of Fun. You don't think Barrels of Fun will have a game? I don't know. Barrels of Fun is being tricky. They are Texas-based. What I'm saying they're being tricky is if you go to the TPS website, you can see the game list. And right now the game list for Barrels of Fun is question marks. So I think it's highly probable that Barrels of Fun's next game will be there. Somebody told me the rumor is Dune or something else. There were two things they said. I've heard Dune and Goonies. The rumored titles. I have no comment. I have no idea. But those are the rumors I heard. I personally am a fan of rumors. Let the rumors fly. But we will see. We will see what happens. Either way, I've been... March 21st, Joel. They're doing a seminar at 7 to 8. So why would you be doing something on Labyrinth that's been around already for... Okay. So let's lock it in then. I'm just saying... I don't know for sure, but yeah, I'm just saying there's question marks and all that. Yeah. The Dune and Goonie stuff, that's interesting. I don't know. I genuinely don't know. I just know personally I was thoroughly impressed with Labyrinth when we streamed it and had it here. And the game came out, the gate, very fleshed out, well done.
    63:31
    And I know it's David Van Ness and the rest of that company. I mean, I was really impressed with Labyrinth all around. So whatever the next release is, I think we're going to be in for a good time. Let me ask you this so I don't give away anything. What's going to be your reaction if it's not Dune or not Goonies?
    63:50
    Like, are you happy about that? Or are you be like, I'm interested? I'm just wondering, are you guys all in that it has to be Goonies or it has to be Dune? No, because those things really don't do anything for me. Like, my son would go crazy if it was Dune. but uh okay like i yeah i to me those those things just don't hit home with me so do if it was rush no just kidding we're gonna redo rush dune for me i loved the movies so it's like if they had movie aspects but really they have to have the sound they have to have the sound oh man so that to me it's like if it was dune there's so many, well, they need this, this, and this. And if they don't have those, then yes, I would be let down. Um, but if it's not doing, that's fine. I, my, I came away from labyrinth as a labyrinth as a theme is not a theme that I love or particularly care for, but I loved everything else about the game. I thought the game itself was really fun. My brother talks about labyrinth all the time, wishes we had the game. Um, so I've just always been excited for whatever barrels of funds next game is. The first one was so good. I have confidence. The second one's going to be a blast so i'm very open-ended on i don't really whatever the theme is i'm excited i'm excited so that's that's essentially the only two that we are really aware of that will be presenting a new game or we don't know for sure barrels of fun possibly just based on looking at the website speculation right multi-morphic we're just guessing because they usually do that every tpf like last year was princess bride so yeah so we've yeah it's a lot different than a couple years ago you guys remember the insanity of like what was it 2023 with like yeah seven games godfather i think it was godfather pulp fiction foo fighters scooby-doo scooby-doo we've said jjp we're not expecting anything new stern is going to be a lot of dnd spooky we've talked about evil dead multi-morphic should have something barrels of fun should probably have something american pinball at this point i don't i don't think they're going to show anything new i don't even know where as a company i don't even know if they're going to have a booth i don't know what's going on uh you don't realize what they're doing right now american pinball they they changed into i i think like a manufacturer now like uh they're making a contract manufacturer yeah so um cgc cgc has announced on their website it shows on their website it says cactus canyon with saloon mech so this is the root this has been the rumored slash somewhat shown uh new addition to cactus canyon remake which is behind me that um they're adding saloon doors in front of bart and there's like one or two other little things um so if that's the case hopefully the the goal of having them at tpf is to have people play the heck out of them for three days and if the mechs survive and look good through all that testing. Hopefully they're at a point to actually start selling these upgrade kits with the Lyman 2.0, the Josh Sharp 2.0. Does that include the code with it? Is that what they're going with? Because if they are going to add a mech, there's, you know, there's nothing in the current code that would recognize the mech. That is wild that a new mech is getting added on. Cause it's, that game came out November of 2021. It's been a little while. November of 2021 and we're in 2025. So I know the big rumors with CGC are obviously we're waiting on that kit. They're actually pumping. They're building Pulp Fictions. The LE version, the higher version, people are already getting those. I'm assuming they'll have Pulp Fictions there. People are waiting for them to officially announce the Medieval Madness remakes. Like, hey, put in your money now. We're ready to sell them. I don't think we're going to see that at TPF. Maybe I'm wrong.
    67:52
    What other companies am I missing? Turner Pinball will be there. Turner Pinball is making stuff. They're shipping games, so I'm assuming people will have another chance to play Ninja Eclipse, which is fun.
    68:06
    I'm going to offend somebody because I'm forgetting them. I know, well, Dutch. Is Dutch or Pinball Brothers going to be there? And if so, what would they have? I'm not seeing a Dutch or a Pinball Brothers on there. Because Dutch has wrapped up Big Lebowski, and I think they have moved on to Alice. So maybe there'll be an Alice there. Maybe. I don't know.
    68:37
    You think that other smaller Alice pen, like the little mini one's going to be there? The Kickstarter one. Yeah, the one with the mini ball. I don't think there would. I don't know. The pop bumpers that make the air balls go and all that. You don't think so? Kudos to them for finishing that Kickstarter, though. Yeah, yeah. They raised like $500,000. There's a lot of people that want mini pinball. Well, hopefully it all gets fulfilled.
    69:04
    Well, it's customer-funded, or consumer-funded, so why not? That's always worked in pinball. I don't know. I feel like I'm missing somebody. So if I'm missing somebody, I'm sorry. Who do you think you're missing? I don't know. It's always the, you know, I've kind of rolled to the big ones. On the exhibitor list, American Pinball is on there. But on the actual seminars and all that, I'm not seeing them, but I do see that Stephen Bowden is going to be doing an X-Men rules seminar with Mike Vinacore. So he's presenting a Stern game. So I don't know if this exhibitor list is updated. I don't think American has any employees that would present at this point. I'm not sure. I don't know. Maybe we'll get surprised and there will be a new pinball company. You already said Chicago Gaming. I'll go through it for you. You said Chicago Gaming. Jersey Jack, they're going to be there.
    69:57
    Multimorphic. Ramps. Ramps Pinball. That's the other one. There you go. Road Trip. I have not played that, so that'll be new for me. Well, I'm going to make sure you play it, Joel. You're going to experience all the ramp fun.
    70:15
    Spooky, of course, we said. Stern. Yeah. Turner. I mean, that's everybody. That's everybody on the list. So really, it's, I mean, me personally, I'm excited to play the two new games, the two which hopefully is Barrels of Fun and hopefully Multimorphic. Otherwise, there's going to be an opportunity to play a lot of other stuff. And then looking ahead, I mean, we talked about last time, like, looking ahead, rumored Harry Potter, Stern's going to be rolling off, you know, rolling out with another game probably in the next two months.
    70:46
    Yeah. We're just going to have to wait and see. What do you think? What would you want to release first? If you're a Jersey Jack, do you want to release Harry Potter before the Stern Cornerstone, or do you want to wait until after an Elwynn game releases? I would release before. Yeah, I would too. I would release before all day long, especially if you have Harry Potter. You're going to get a lot of sales just off the name alone. But sure, there will be people that will be holding their money to wait for both releases and then try to pick which one they want to commit to. But I just think you're going to lose. Elwin is Elwin. I think for people, there's going to be a lot of people that will pull the trigger on Elwin, and then they're not going to have the money for it. It's kind of weird, too. I truly wonder if somebody announced their game before the next Stern, whether or not the pinball enthusiast crowd would be kind of frozen up just to wait anyway. So maybe that leads to other people wanting just to wait out Stern. It could be like a game of cat and mouse. Like, can you imagine that standoff? Like, everybody's like, are you going to announce first? Are you going to wait? Like, how's this going to go?
    71:53
    It's a great point. I don't know. Luckily, though, we have two big hitters. Like, if it's Harry Potter, Harry Potter is going to be big regardless of what the game is. And then Elwynn is Elwynn. Elwynn, it's going to be big. So it's like, luckily, I would feel a lot worse if it was, you know, Harry Potter versus some new designer at Stern that's never released anything. Yeah, good luck. If you're Stern, you're rooting for Jersey Jack to hit it out of the park. Like you want Harry Potter to be great. And the reason why is because that will just draw new people into pinball. And Stern has the biggest active catalog there is. So why would they not want that? Yeah, once you get one. Oh, yeah. That is something I've been seeing that more and more. Obviously, Travis, you know that. Well, you guys both. You guys have been in the hobby a long time that your friend group and people you hang out with, you've seen their collections go from like, what's pinball to all of a sudden they have 10.
    72:51
    But even in my local friend group, it's like there was a guy that, yeah, I think he got a golden tee. And then now he's like three pins in. You know, it's just like everything after that, I keep hearing his name more and more of, oh, he's interested in that. It's like, dang, he's really, he's all in. People go down the rabbit hole. My last shill for Evil Dead is now that my friend group knows that I have this game, I had a husband and wife come over. Derek and Jenny came over yesterday during the day, and then my other buddy Chris came over during the day to play this. And all three of them left like, I need a – we're going to have to buy this. You have friends that visit you in the middle of the day on a weekday? Yeah, I work from home. He works from home. I work from home. Do you guys just like all get in your golf carts and just drive to each other's house? Is that what it is? This is like this golf cart private chat. One's a doctor, and he has – so he does weird hours. And then the other – There we go. There we go, Tom. Yeah, he just happens to have like his shift. He always has one of the weekdays. Does he have spinners on his – Yeah, I imagine that. Nobody came over. There was nobody who came over to the golf cart. Does he have spinners on his golf cart? No. No? No. Does he have like a boom box or like a sound system? LEDs on the golf cart? Yeah. I don't think they have. Like underneath lights, like Fast and Furious golf cart. But what I was saying – Bullshit, Joel. You sent me pictures of your golf cart the other day. I know this. I have a golf cart. Yeah. We putz around the neighborhood all the time. Me and the dog. It's great.
    74:15
    No, I was just saying, I was really impressed with their, their, yeah, their initial, their initial impressions were, they, they were blown away by it. But all right. I think that's it. TPF besides that, eat, eat barbecue, eat barbecue, talk to everybody there. Everybody that there's passionate and loves pinball. so say hi to make some friends and if you see any of us or any of the other content creators you like feel free to say hi there are people from the industry there you know there's a chance that if you're standing in line playing a game one of the employees may have been the designer of that game that's standing right next to you so you know be social engage with others and you're probably going to make some friends and meet some really really cool people but yeah I love TPF it's going to be nice it'll be warm should be a really good time so I'm looking forward to that.
    75:08
    Besides that, we can probably start wrapping it up. Was there anything else you guys wanted to talk about or mention? We could give a quick shout-out to Raymond Davidson for winning Penmasters this past weekend. And then what else happened here? Zoller won the whole thing. Zoller won nationals. Yeah, Jason Zoller. Yep. And then Tom won seventh place. Oh, yeah. Tom won seventh place. Tuesday, what is it, Flipper Frenzy? So, congrats. That was awesome, Tom. He's got the plaque to prove it. It was awesome. No, Pin Masters was a lot of fun to watch, though. If you guys haven't watched it yet and you're in the tournament pinball, go back and I guess it's still on Twitch with Backhand Pinball, Tom. Is that who it's with? Yes. I think. Backhand Pinball. Yeah, so go check that out. Excellent job. Yeah. Well, especially Saturday night. The Saturday night stream was awesome because it was you, Tom, and Bowden on commentary. And Ron Hala Jr. too. well he showed up eventually yes i think it was just you two for the portion i listened to and that was by far one of the most entertaining slash informative like commentary boost i've heard because it made like colin's game on sea witch that much more fun like just what was happening and everything so it's like yeah i i fully believe that was like a clinic in showing commentary that's digestible for people because i mean i've told you this before tom and joel if you watch i don't know Joel if you watch tournament streams or not but he doesn't it just it drives me sometimes it just like we're we're all like amateurs when it comes to that but it drives me up a wall when a player like just does nothing but talk about themselves or a commentator does nothing but talk about themselves or they critique everything or just like non-stop or they're like using derogatory words towards them I'm just like I get it you want to give some critiques but there's just a tactful way to do it right makes it fun and engaging and not like just cringe inducing and tom like you guys you guys nailed it there's there's plenty of teams out there that that do it but i just want to definitely commend you for like how that went you guys had a good flow and what was happening so that was a lot of fun this is that steve's awesome at you know commentary. I just fill in you know he makes it easy. Let's put it that way. I was having fun. That's what I mean. You both genuinely felt like you guys were having fun. We were having fun and you know commentating on the action and it's just easy.
    77:49
    You just gotta love it. Yeah. And Joel's done it before. Joel did it. Joel does it. Yeah. I love it. Hopefully I'll have a chance to do it some more at TPF. Are we supposed to do it at TPF, Joel? I think Jamie had reached out to me and he said he wants to give us a schedule. Final four. He didn't reach out to me. Because he knows you're going to be in finals, Tom. He knows you're going to be in finals. That's why. Right. All right. We'll have to do one round, Joel. I think we can do it. Oh, yeah. It'll be fun. You can teach me how to do Redline Mania again. I feel horrible for the group because we're going to break everything I just said I don't like about commentary. So that's what it is. If they have a telestrator, that's all I need.
    78:28
    Yeah, I think just love it. I think just as long I can handle commentary as long as I know that the people are having fun and they're genuine about it. Like whether they're busting balls or something like that. Like that's what Levy like Levy cracks me up. I know he's not everybody's cup of tea. I know he's like totally over the top with everything but it's kind of like just seeing that character play over the top that everything is just the most crucial game nine of if but thing it could just be like some podunk tournament that's what like stuff like that if somebody's excited and they're genuine about it like that's like I'm able to digest what's happening there yeah absolutely no it'll be fun well yeah let's go and wrap it up friendly reminder for the people that skipped the very beginning of the show So we are no longer going to be part of the Pinball Network. So please, on your podcatcher, whatever it is, search Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. You will see there is a separate show. Please follow and subscribe to that show. Same with YouTube. I will put the link in the description. If you're watching this on the Pinball Network channel, we have created our own YouTube channel. Please migrate over there, like, subscribe, all the things. So hopefully we just don't want to lose anybody. this might be the last episode on the Pinball Network. We may have one more as another friendly reminder. But yes, we don't want to accidentally miss anybody. So that, yeah, we have full intentions of making plenty more content. 60 episodes in, looking forward to having many, many more.
    80:00
    Yeah, but let's plug it up. Travis, plug away, man. Yeah, you guys can find me right here on the Triple Drain Pinball Podcast and now over on the YouTube Triple Drain and also on my work, the Pinball Company YouTube, where we do tutorials and all that. And you can also find me in the gym doing calf raises.
    80:20
    Perfect. Tom, go for it. I will be here on Triple Drain and Fox Cities Pinball. Yeah. We've got a lot of tournament streaming coming up over the next couple of months, so it's going to be exciting. That's awesome. Yes, and I am Joel. you will find me on the Flippin' Out YouTube channel. My brother and I stream every Wednesday night from 10 to midnight. Come check that out or watch any of the past streams or tutorial videos that we've been doing. But yeah, and then as well as here, Triple Train. So, oh, hey, sign up, sign up for Papa 22 in case we don't get an episode out. I think it's April 5th.
    81:01
    Oh, we'll get one out. Yeah. Sure we will, Joel. Are you sure, Joel? Normally we do a TPF follow-up. We usually are pretty good at getting a TPF follow-up in. For the record, I'm trying to get you two bozos to record a podcast while we're down there, even if it's just for 20 minutes. Maybe we'll do that. We'll see. Maybe we'll do that. We'll try to figure it out. Yeah, appreciate all the listeners. Thanks for everybody that has supported this show so far.
    81:28
    Whether it's just clicking on the video, listening, or we have a Patreon, thanks for all that. anything. Yeah, we really appreciate you guys. And hopefully we'll have a chance to meet you guys in person at TPF. So like always, Tom, you get the last words. Be excellent to each other.