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Episode 1078: "Kaneda's Shocking Take on Dune After Sleeping On It"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·20m 26s·analyzed·Apr 15, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.028

TL;DR

Dune marketing disaster, but game itself impressive; pricing concerns remain.

Summary

Kaneda critiques Barrels of Fun's marketing strategy for Dune while praising the game itself as a well-executed theme integration with impressive sculpts and atmospheric design. He argues the launch was poorly communicated, focusing on technical specs rather than emotional connection to the Dune property, and expresses concern about the $13,000-$14,000 all-in pricing and simultaneous King Kong release hurting sales momentum.

Key Claims

  • Dune's base price is $11,600 with fully accessorized pricing reaching $13,000-$14,000

    high confidence · Kaneda discussing pricing structure and accessory package details

  • Barrels of Fun plans to manufacture all 1,000 Dune units by end of 2025

    high confidence · Kaneda referencing distributor communications received

  • David Van Ness sent a note to distributors encouraging more Labyrinth orders to speed up Dune delivery

    high confidence · Kaneda discussing strategy to prioritize Dune shipments

  • The marketing focused on technical features (shaker motor, non-reflective glass, lighting) instead of theme integration and emotional connection

    high confidence · Kaneda's opening critique of launch communication strategy

  • Dune game features a motorized sandworm mechanism with magnet that eats the ball

    medium confidence · Kaneda describing playfield mechanics based on images

  • The game includes day/night lighting effects through a new RGB LED atmospheric lighting system

    high confidence · Kaneda reading official game feature specifications

  • King Kong release on the same day as Dune represents poor timing and will cannibalize Dune sales

    high confidence · Kaneda's direct statement about competing product launches

  • Harry Potter pinball will feature muted film clips, which Kaneda views as a deal breaker

    medium confidence · Kaneda referencing Jersey Jack announcement about upcoming Harry Potter game

Notable Quotes

  • “I don't understand why David Van Ness and the team over there... ended up with such a fumbled launch.”

    Kaneda @ ~2:20 — Sets up central critique of marketing execution despite praising the game product itself

  • “This is not the kind of movie you're going to go back and watch time and time again. It's not the kind of movie where you're going to get a tattoo of it.”

    Kaneda@ 3:32 — Core argument about weak theme choice and lack of emotional connection for modern buyers

  • “I think there's a lot here to be proud of... While it's not the theme I would have selected... I don't think the modern pinball buying demographic clicked with these movies.”

    Kaneda@ 3:16 — Balances criticism of theme selection with acknowledgment of production quality

  • “This game definitely looks like it's got a universe under glass. This game definitely looks like it's got ten times more fun stuff to shoot at than Avatar does.”

    Kaneda@ 8:30 — Direct comparison and differentiation from Avatar, predicting better reception and market performance

  • “My favorite area of this game is that back one third of the playfield... the physical playfield is blending into the film and I think it's going to be really, really cool.”

    Kaneda@ 11:07 — Highlights specific design achievement integrating LCD display with physical playfield

  • “At $13,000, $14,000 all in, it's hard to know whether or not you should pull the trigger.”

    Kaneda@ 17:18 — Key market concern about pricing barrier to impulse purchases compared to earlier $6-7k boutique games

  • “I think when we see this whole thing lit up with the atmospheric effect, I think it's going to be the opposite of Avatar. I think this game is going to bring that sand world to life.”

Entities

KanedapersonDavid Van NesspersonBarrels of FuncompanyDunegameKing KonggameHarry PottergameAvatargame

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Dune base price $11,600 with fully accessorized price reaching $13,000-$14,000 including optional topper, sculpted slings, and shooter knob. Accessories not available at launch.

    high · Kaneda detailed pricing breakdown and accessory package strategy from distributor communications

  • ?

    product_launch: Barrels of Fun targeting 1,000 unit production completion by end of 2025, with manufacturing to begin within month of April launch date

    high · Kaneda referencing distributor email with production plan details

  • ?

    industry_signal: David Van Ness using Labyrinth pre-orders as leverage to incentivize distributor priority for Dune shipments, suggesting soft demand for prior title

    high · Kaneda noting Van Ness sent note to distros requesting more Labyrinth orders to bump Dune delivery priority

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Negative sentiment toward Dune marketing execution shifted to positive upon detailed game review; Kaneda's overnight YouTube frustration resolved after sleep and image analysis

    high · Kaneda explicitly stating 'I'm over it' after reconsidering marketing criticism; pivoting to enthusiastic game analysis

  • ?

    design_innovation: Dune features new RGB LED low-profile inner cabinet lighting system with day/night effects and atmospheric playfield rail lighting to compensate for sparse insert layout

    high · Kaneda reading official game specifications and analyzing design rationale for sparse inserts fitting desert theme

Topics

Dune pinball marketing execution and strategyprimaryGame design philosophy and theme integrationprimaryPinball pricing and market accessibility barriersprimaryConcurrent product launches and market cannibalizationprimaryBoutique manufacturer production capacity and delivery timelinessecondaryPlayfield design innovation and sculpt qualitysecondaryContent creator relationship management and exclusivitysecondaryComparison of modern theme choices vs. nostalgia-driven alternativessecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Kaneda is highly critical of Barrels of Fun's marketing execution (negative) and worried about pricing/timing dynamics (negative) but genuinely impressed by game design, sculpts, and theme integration (positive). He separates personal feelings about the launch from assessment of the final product, arriving at an optimistic conclusion about gameplay despite market concerns.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.061

0:00
Hey! The man you're talking back to me! Take him out! Gotta keep him separated. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said I... Welcome everybody to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, we gotta keep him separated. I'm gonna have to separate my feelings about how Barrels of Fun launched this new Dune game, The worst kept secret in all of pinball from the game itself because I'm going to talk about both of them. I'm going to start out by saying this. I don't understand why David Van Es and the team over there that has been in communication with various members of the pinball media, how they ended up with such a fumbled launch. The thing I'm hearing happened is that some distro leaked the YouTube
0:55
Mountain Vince Fields, David Von emerging fans. bütünماot.com Send all yourassees on my messenger situation. Join the Indianuaаются sicher ingame Bad marketing, it's a bad way to communicate the game, and I don't understand why they didn't utilize more positive content leading up to the launch of this game.
1:34
All they were talking about was the shaker motor, the non-reflective glass, they were talking about the lighting system, all the stuff they were focusing on was not Dune. The modern version of Dune and getting you excited about this game, getting you to watch the movies again, getting you to connect with the property. That's what I would have done. We know the Elton John effect. Elton John is one of the best shooting pinball machines of all time, but people didn't want
2:06
Elton John and instead of like giving people a runway so they could get over that fact And then control the narrative around the game. You launch it like this. Now, that being said, so I'm over it. I don't know why David did it. I don't know why Blake and Brian Savage did it this way. Maybe it wasn't their intention, but whatever they had planned, this was not it. They just could have done it much better than they did.

Kaneda@ 19:41 — Final assessment predicting Dune succeeds where Avatar failed in theme immersion

  • “This is a really, really good theme integrated game... I think there are other sci-fi sort of nostalgic things that would have sold better. Stuff like Spaceballs.”

    Kaneda@ 16:08 — Acknowledges execution quality while arguing theme selection was suboptimal for market

    • Labyrinth
    game
    Kerry Hardyperson
    Blake Savageperson
    Brian Savageperson
    Colinperson
    Caleperson
    Elton Johngame
    Portalgame
    Back to the Futuregame
    Sterncompany
    John Borgperson
    Knapp's Arcadevenue
    Automatedvenue/operator
    ?

    design_philosophy: Barrels of Fun prioritized immersive theme atmosphere over bright inserts, using physical sculpts and LCD blending with playfield to create 'universe under glass' experience

    high · Kaneda praising back third playfield blend with LCD display and overall sculptural approach to desert world creation

  • $

    market_signal: Dune and King Kong releasing simultaneously, creating negative market timing and potential sales cannibalization; Kaneda views this as worst-case scenario for Dune momentum

    high · Kaneda repeatedly emphasizing timing disaster and expressing frustration that Dune would have stolen show at TPF if released alone

  • ?

    content_signal: Kerry Hardy traveling to launch event but reportedly denied exclusive content access promised by Barrels of Fun; first-hands-on reviewer despite access issues

    medium · Kaneda noting Kerry 'seemingly screwed him on all the exclusive stuff' but will still be first hands-on

  • ?

    product_concern: Modern Dune films lack emotional resonance with core pinball demographic; insufficient character recognition and nostalgia compared to classic sci-fi alternatives like Spaceballs or Last Starfighter

    high · Kaneda questioning character name recall, discussing Gen-Z actor disconnect, and arguing market research should have selected different IP

  • $

    market_signal: Pricing tiers at $13-14k all-in create barriers to impulse purchase, encouraging secondary market waiting strategy where early buyers absorb depreciation and collectors scoop later at discount

    high · Kaneda discussing $2,000 non-refundable deposits, potential $3,000 one-year depreciation, and strategic waiting vs. buying patterns

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Dune positioned as superior theme integration to Avatar (prior boutique release) with significantly more playfield depth and sculptural detail; predicted to succeed where Avatar failed

    high · Kaneda's direct comparison stating 'ten times more fun stuff to shoot at than Avatar' and predicting opposite market outcome

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Placeholder topper indicates incomplete product at launch; accessory package with sculpted slings, new topper, and shooter knob pricing TBD, creating purchase uncertainty

    high · Kaneda criticizing lack of all-inclusive day-one pricing and noting placeholder topper pending future accessory package

    • 2:36
    All right. So I'm over it. My little hissy fit. I went on YouTube last night. I was extremely tired. I'm over it. Let's talk about the game. The game is now real. The game is out. The game is going to go on the line within the next four weeks. I have a laundry list of features. I've got a humongous email that they sent to the distributors, how it's all going to work. I'm hearing a lot of message about how this is a universe under glass, not a world under glass, a universe under glass.
    3:08
    Look, I think these guys are very proud of this game. And as I look at the game, I think there's a lot here to be proud of. I do. While it's not the theme I would have selected, it's not. I don't think the modern pinball buying demographic clicked with these movies. There's not like an emotional connection to these modern Dune films. It's not the kind of movie you're going to go back and watch time and time again. And it's not the kind of movie where you're going to get a tattoo of it.
    3:41
    It's not the kind of movie where you're reciting lines from the film. I bet if I asked most of you, name me three characters from this movie, you wouldn't really be able to do it. Now that being said, on a theme level, it's not a very strong theme for modern pinball. It's not. And it's very brown, right? It's like this company is stuck in a beige brown world. It's gonna go really nice next to your labyrinth, but boy oh boy, it is again another brown
    4:14
    game from Barrels of Fun. So just aesthetically, you know, the colorful fun of an Evil Dead, or we know King Kong's gonna be colorful and fun. This game, a lot darker. I think Harry Potter's gonna be very dark too, but it does fit the theme. I'm looking at the Knapp's arcade images right now and let's go over this game, all right? Let's talk about the cabinet first. What do we think about the cabinet artwork? We've got the character Timothy Chamelet. See, I don't even know his character name.
    4:45
    I really don't. I don't know who the main character in Dune is. He's holding up his knife. I think he's like leading the army with this rebellious sort of fist pump with the knife in hand. That's on the right side of the cabinet. The Translite has all the characters from the movie They got everybody from the films I mean everybody in this So I fully expect there to be movie clips without muted clips which is going to be good Because if you saw the Jersey Jack note the other day it seems like there going to be muted clips in Harry Potter And you know how I feel about that It kind of a deal breaker but everybody is in this And here what sad I on Knapp Arcade right now And there is nothing but a low res flyer of the game
    5:31
    Low res, I can't read any of the text. I can see it and this is their first official assets of the game. Low res, cannot read what is going on here. On the left side of the cabinet, it's much darker. Reminds me a lot of Lord of the Rings where one side is sort of orange and red and the other side is sort of black and blue. I'm zooming in here and it looks like there's a few characters fighting is what it looks like.
    6:01
    Okay, but that's not what everybody's talking about. And then you got a topper on this game that's just a placeholder plastic topper because they're going to, at a later date, offer an accessory package which is also going to have a new topper. So, so much talk for getting everything on day one from Barrels of Fun. They've been doing a lot of communication around how they're giving you the best bang for the buck in pinball, but the price has gone up. I believe the price of this game is $11,600 and that's not with the more expensive topper.
    6:34
    It's not with the sculpted slings. If you look at the slingshots, just flat plastic and it's not with the shooter knob. So if you add all of those things up, you're getting much closer to a $13,000 to $14,000 game. I don't know how much the topper is going to be. A little disappointed it's not all available on day one. So people don't know how much in total they're going to need to spend if they want to buy this game with all of the accessories. I don't like that. From a communication standpoint, I would like to know on day one, how much is everything all in?
    7:10
    We know there's going to be a thousand units and it sounds like games are going to start to be made over the next month. They're anticipating to make all 1,000 of these games by the end of the year. Now that's a lot. That's a lot because it's already mid-April. So all these companies promising we're gonna have all the units made by the end of the year, I hope they get there. Now looking at the game too, you know, the coin door is weird, that one coin slot, and then they've got just the generic shooter knob.
    7:42
    The armor is just basic armor. I just feel like there's certain details where I would have liked to have seen a little bit more. For example, the speaker area. I guess it looks like a worm, right? The speaker grill itself, which is kind of nice. But it's just a lot of dark brown. The legs, the armor, the speaker grill area. So I have to stand over the machine. But look, if you like Dune, I think this game really does a great job Bringing the theme to life.
    8:12
    Now, looking at the playfield, the universe under glass, what do I think about this game? Well, first and foremost, I've heard a lot of people say, this is just like Avatar. It's a theme nobody really wants, and it's going to go down just like Avatar. And I 100% disagree. And here's why. This game looks like it's got ten times more fun stuff to shoot at than Avatar does. This game definitely looks like it's got a universe under glass. It definitely looks like all these wire forms going all over the place.
    8:46
    I mean, you kind of get that sense of like the worms slithering through the desert. I'm getting that vibe. I love the sculpts in this game. I mean, people are saying it reminds them a little bit of whitewater. And the only reason that is, is because of all the sculpts. It really looks like a three-dimensional world under glass. And that's what you want to see. So kudos to the team over there for not going flat plastic. I bet you were going to see a lot more flat plastic today when we see King Kong.
    9:17
    I don't know if Harry Potter is going to have this level of sculpts, but out of all the companies in pinball right now, I really do want to give Barrels of Fun a lot of credit for these sculpts because this is what should be under glass for this much money. And you know, look, last night I was like, oh, the art. Yeah, the art is very barren, like a desert. It really is like there's not a lot of art. There's not a lot of detail. And when I look at it now, you sort of have just a few characters in the middle.
    9:47
    The inserts are interestingly located in this game. What you can see in this game is sort of how the inserts are going to light up. And I feel like they're going to escalate as you're getting through the different modes in the game. I like that there not too many inserts My one fear when I looking at this game right now and this is probably why they have the new lighting system if you look at the middle of the game there really not many inserts which means there not going to be a lot of light So I think this game is going to utilize the new lighting system on the rails to create much more of an atmosphere because I don think you going to get like a ton of inserts lighting up on the playfield itself
    10:30
    And it kind of makes sense, right? You're in a desert and that's where this franchise takes place. You wouldn't expect there to be too much light. You kind of want that desert vibe to come through more. And I'm really happy to say it does. I mean, what's going to be stunning in this game, I can kind of tell right now. My favorite area of this game is that back one third of the playfield. I love all the sculpts and then it goes into that LCD screen that's in the back box area, right?
    11:02
    The back of the game, the ability for them to sort of have a desert sequence. It's almost like the physical playfield is blending into the film and I think it's going to be really, really cool. I really do. Got three flippers in this game. I'm going to be talking about the pinball game. It looks like you've got a physical ball kick out in the left out lane. Really interesting area there. It looks like it kicks it out up the wire form and then feeds it back to the left flipper.
    11:33
    So that's going to be really cool. There's some drop targets. There's a third flipper. And then there's obviously the main mech, that big sandworm that comes up with the magnet and apparently it's going to eat the ball. I'm not sure what happens, right? They haven't shown us the whole sequence. We're going to get more of that. And then there's another mech in the upper left corner. I'm not sure what that thing is from the movies. I should know the movies better. And what's also interesting is you've got that sculpt in the upper right with those
    12:03
    two holes. And I don't think the balls come out of there, but really atmospheric and well done on the overall look of this game. It comes with the inner art decals. Let's read the game features. Three flippers, six balls, Horizon Atmospheric Lighting. So I think that's going to be really cool. I think this game is going to have more of an atmospheric effect than even Avatar does, which never really worked right. In all new RGB LED low profile inner cabinet lighting system for Arrakis Day night lighting
    12:36
    effects. Can't wait to see that. All RGB WLED playfield insert lamps, general illumination lamps and playfield apron floodlights. Evergloss high gloss decal art with metallic embedded details. So that's the cabinet artwork. It's kind of like their version of Radcals. Infinity glass, thunder from down under. It's got the two LCD screens. Now I'm hearing that we're going to see the full reveal of this game today. So a lot's going to happen today. We're going to see more of Dune.
    13:06
    We're going to see King Kong. We're going to get a lot, right? Harry Potter seemingly a few weeks away. So here's my overall take on this Dune game. If they sold a thousand labyrinth machines, they're gonna sell these games. And this is the thing about boutiques. You only need to sell a thousand. And did you give enough to sell a thousand units? Now, the one thing is it's not cheap. And I think people are gonna wanna fully accessorize this thing. And I think fully accessorized out the door, you're looking at 13, $14,000.
    13:42
    And then the question becomes, do you wait it out? Because as we saw with Labyrinth, towards the end of the run, the demand dries up. You know, it's interesting about David Van Es' strategy here. He sent a note to the distros. They're really trying to get distros to order more Labyrinth machines to bump them up in terms of when you'll get your Dune machines. I don't know how much demand there really was for Labyrinth. I don't think there was even a thousand, but this game looks so much better than Labyrinth.
    14:17
    I gotta be honest. It looks so much cooler than Labyrinth. There's a lot more going on in this game than there is in Labyrinth. And look, I think the response to this game is going to be interesting because it's definitely a game that has a lot in it. And I think it's going to be interesting to see what we get from King Kong today. Because if Kong has no assets and is an all original Kong adventure and it doesn't have a lot in it, people might start to look at this Dune machine with a lot more favorability.
    14:50
    Now I also think most people are going to wait to see everything before they pull the trigger. The only game you're really going to have to probably pull the trigger on today is a King Kong LE. Just because historically Elwin LEs have done really well and once they sell out it's hard to find one. We know all the King Kong LEs have already sold through but you know will distros still have them come the end of the week It only Tuesday right It only Tuesday I can wait to see Kerry Hardy review after he gets to jump on this machine
    15:27
    Poor Kerry, man. He flew down there and they seemingly screwed him on all the exclusive stuff he was going to be able to do, but he will be the first one to have hands-on time with this game. Colin is down there. I think Cale might be down there as well. I was not going to make the trip. I was not going to make the trip because when this game actually does ship, it's going to go to automated and I'll have a chance to play it. Same with King Kong. So lots happening this week, people. Lots happening this week. Look, I just want to end by saying this is a really, really good theme integrated game.
    16:03
    Whether or not the theme speaks to you, yeah, it's not where I would have gone. I don't think market research takes you here. I think there are other sci-fi sort of nostalgic things that would have sold better. Stuff like Spaceballs. Heck, even Last Starfighter might speak to more So I just think the new Dune, and a lot of people that love Dune also have fondness for the David Lynch Dune. It's just like the new one, right? It's like none of us are into Timothy Chamolay and Zendaya.
    16:35
    Like these are like Gen Z actors, right? These aren't the actors and these aren't the movies that have forged an indelible bond with you. But I am impressed that David Van Essen team got a modern blockbuster theme. Only one issue too is, isn't there a third movie coming out? And so now they've made this game based on the first two films and a third installment might come out. You know, a better theme would have been to make the new Tron movie coming out, which
    17:05
    is happening this fall. And in the end, it all comes down to one simple thing. When these games were six to seven thousand dollars, it was a lot easier to just pull the trigger, support these boutique companies and pull the trigger. But at $13,000, $14,000 all in, it's hard to know whether or not you should pull the trigger. Because what you don't want to do is give that $2,000, they raised it, it's a $2,000 non-refundable deposit. What you don't want to do is lock yourself in on this game, and if you want all the accessories,
    17:41
    that's a $2,000 deposit on a game that might be $13,000 or more thousand dollars, which Which then might lose $3,000 in one year because Back to the Future is coming out, Harry Potter is coming out, Stern is not done, right? In four months, another Stern machine will be coming out by John Borg and it might be Pokemon. That's the problem I see in all modern pinball is you really can only go in on these games when you want to keep them. And then the problem becomes if you really want to keep them, you might as well wait
    18:11
    And let the new in box buyer take the big hit and then swoop in and get it for $3,000 or less. It's just a problem with the whole industry now is like nothing makes you really want to pull the trigger right away. Because again, six, $7,000, these things are sold out in day one. $13,000 fully accessorize, I don't know, especially with King Kong dropping on the same exact day. I mean, talk about the worst timing ever. It is the worst timing ever. I wish this game would have like stole the show at TPF.
    18:44
    It really would have. Like this looks way, way cooler than Portal. All right, so we shall see. I'm obviously gonna do more shows today. And also I'm gonna go live when King Kong drops today. So join me on YouTube and let's watch Kong together. But these are my first impressions of Barrels of Fun's new game, Dune. I think it was a marketing disaster. David and team have a lot of maturing to do when it comes to how to market a game and bring it to market and utilize all the content creators that are out there to their benefit.
    19:20
    I don't think they did it properly and it's really a shame because I had a lot of personal conversations with them and they did nothing they said they were going to do. So that's unfortunate, but that does not take away from the effort I see in this game. It does look to be a real universe under glass and it looks really neat. And I think when we see this whole thing lit up with the atmospheric effect, I think it's going to be the opposite of Avatar. I think this game is going to bring that sand world to life and then some where Avatar missed the mark completely on bringing the world of Pandora to life.
    19:58
    Everybody, thank you for being a subscriber. More shows coming today. Crazy day. There's a reason I took off. I go back to work tomorrow because I knew, I knew I needed to recover from the jet lag and I knew this was going to be a crazy day in pinball. Kaneda out. Hey, hey, hey, Pinball Mike, 218, I want to be with you anytime. Hey, hey, hey, come on and play.