Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

DPP #19 "On the road in LA! Scooby details, Bond 60th, My first guest!!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·25m 23s·analyzed·Feb 22, 2023
View original
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Don explores LA pinball locations, covers Scooby-Doo mechanics, critiques Bond 60th pricing, and interviews non-expert on game appeal.

Summary

Don's Pinball Podcast episode featuring guest Ryan Davies discussing location play in Southern California. Main topics include Spooky's Scooby-Doo (apron locks, Captain Cutler multiball mechanics), James Bond 60th Edition pricing concerns ($20k MSRP, dealer quotes $17k-$19.5k, code imbalance), Stranger Things UV lighting kit, and a segment interviewing Ryan (a non-pinball expert) about gaming preferences and market positioning.

Key Claims

  • Bond 60th Edition retails for $19,999 on Stern's website; distributor dealer invoice estimated at ~$15,000 with retail quotes ranging $17,000-$19,500

    high confidence · Don describing observed market pricing from distributors after Bond livestream viewing

  • Only 500 units of Bond 60th Edition being produced, with ~90% going to home collectors rather than locations

    medium confidence · Don speculating on production allocation based on price point

  • Scooby-Doo features unique apron lock mechanism where balls lock above flippers and eject back into play to enable multiball

    high confidence · Don describing hands-on experience at IO Pinball arcade in Madison

  • Scooby-Doo Captain Cutler multiball triggers a previously unheard Shaggy song (possibly from direct-to-DVD Scooby movie) with sea shanty style

    medium confidence · Don recalling gameplay experience; song source unconfirmed

  • Stranger Things Premium version features UV-reactive playfield paint that activates when demogorgon ramp drops, revealing hidden artwork

    high confidence · Don and Ryan describing firsthand gameplay at Juke Joint in Anaheim

  • Stranger Things designer (Brian Eddy) is rumored to be designing Venom next, and Venom has experienced supply chain delays

    medium confidence · Don stating rumor; no official confirmation of Venom attribution or delay cause

  • Bond 60th Edition code is currently 'unbalanced' due to ongoing licensing issues, with theme integration described as 'shallow'

    medium confidence · Don's analysis after playing; acknowledges code may evolve post-release

  • Stern is implementing QR code leaderboard system tracking gameplay metrics (spins, drop targets, mode triggers) with cumulative unlock achievements

    high confidence · Don demonstrating Stern account system and explaining achievement mechanics observed on Godzilla

Notable Quotes

  • “The code is still what I would call unbalanced... This stake is not seasoned yet, and I think that's due to the ongoing licensing issues.”

    Don @ ~28:00 — Commentary on Bond 60th's gameplay tuning challenges, suggesting licensing constraints affect code development

  • “I don't think that this game is going to be, you know, $19,000 by Christmas. Will it be $10,000 by Christmas? I don't know.”

    Don @ ~33:30 — Speculation on Bond 60th secondary market pricing volatility; raises concerns about unsold inventory and market demand

  • “That UV light underground, upside down, in Stranger Things, I think is a good moment... that paint in the playfield that you can't typically see which is all UV light reactive all of a sudden just comes to life.”

    Don @ ~19:00 — Detailed praise for Stranger Things UV mechanic as exemplifying 'pinball moment' design philosophy

  • “I think if it is venom next and it can take that kind of... because venom's a very dichotomous character... I'm going to keep my pre-orders in on this game.”

    Don @ ~23:30 — Conditional enthusiasm for rumored Venom game, pending UV mechanic confirmation

  • “There's a reason to go back and play that game again... worldwide leaderboards. So they're just starting with this.”

    Don @ ~51:00 — Explanation of Stern's emerging gamification strategy and leaderboard infrastructure as retention mechanism

  • “I didn't realize there's all these things you can unlock and, you know, extra scenes and deleted scenes... I just had no clue.”

    Ryan Davies @ ~56:00 — Casual player perspective on modern pinball complexity and rule depth as surprise discovery

  • “Starting a pinball company is a great way to turn a billion dollars into a million dollars just because there's so much nuance in it.”

    Don @ ~53:00 — Self-deprecating commentary on pinball industry economics and complexity

Entities

DonpersonRyan DaviespersonScooby-Doo (Spooky Pinball)gameJames Bond 60th Edition (Stern Pinball)gameStranger Things (Stern Pinball)gameVenom (Stern Pinball - rumored)gameSpooky PinballcompanyStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Bond 60th positioned for niche collector/curator market rather than mainstream appeal; operator ROI model questioned (minimum 18,000 plays at $1 to break even on $18k machine)

    high · Don: 'Either you're just insanely into Bond and you have to have it no matter what... or you're some sort of pin curator, I think is who this game is for' and operator ROI math presented

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Casual non-expert player (Ryan) unaware of modern pinball complexity (modes, unlocks, progre progression systems) until exposed to it; represents significant market education gap and growth opportunity for expanding player base beyond enthusiasts

    high · Ryan: 'I didn't realize there's all these things you can unlock and... extra scenes... I just had no clue' and Don noting this complexity surprise as barrier to mainstream adoption

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stranger Things UV mechanic exemplifies 'pinball moment' design—where lighting/mechanics create emotional payoff and sense of achievement. Emerging pattern of using sensory effects for narrative integration

    high · Don extensively praising UV trigger as model pinball moment; contrasts with base game appearance as dark/uninviting

  • $

    market_signal: Video game IP licensing (Halo, Call of Duty) identified as major untapped opportunity in pinball; casual players naturally drawn to gaming franchises they recognize; represents potential expansion vector for manufacturers

    medium · Ryan identifying video game franchises as natural fit; Don acknowledging 'people have been kind of clamoring for these video game franchises' but noting limited production (Super Mario, Roller Coaster Tycoon legacy)

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.076

0:00
What's up everybody? Welcome from sunny Southern California where your boy is now posted on yet another trip. I've got some pinball and theme parks I'm going to get to and for the first time on this show I'm joined by a guest my boy Ryan Davies who's hosting me for the weekend. So we're going to get into all that and more. There's all kinds of news coming. We finally got that Bond live stream all kinds of stuff to talk about all that and more in just I don't know 10 seconds. Let's get ready.
0:32
Grab that K-Cup. You're listening to Dawn's Pinball Podcast. My boy, Ryan Davies, everybody. Let's give him a round of applause. I am here in Southern California. I just flew in today, and it's my birthday weekend. So my wife, being the lovely creature that she is, has given me the boot out of the Midwest and made me go out to the West Coast, where I used to post, where I host, where I rock the most, I believe as the kids say. I'm here for a few days playing some pinball. I'm here to check out Super Nintendo World, also Universal Studios. It's going to be great. And I'm joined for the first time with my buddy who lives here, longtime friend Ryan Davies. Ryan, how you doing? What's going on? Welcome to Southern California. Man, my old coaster friend here, and I'm trying to get him into pinball like most friends do, right? Because we just want to build this obby and have a good time with it. So I've got some topics. I want to get through real quick. And then I got, I'm doing something I've wanted to do. Something that I don't see a lot of pinball podcasters doing. And that is asking people who don't have any intimate knowledge of pinball questions about pinball, right?
1:40
All right. So I'll get to that a little later. Are you ready, sir? Yeah. Hey, first of all, why the heck did you bring the Midwest weather out here? It's cold. It's wet. It's supposed to snow later this week. So I got on a plane this morning in the middle of Wisconsin, four degrees out. I landed. It's like 55 in Los Angeles. everybody's bundled up with parkas there is the the lightest mist of a little drizzle and people are like you know they're like acting like the world's about the flood and the the windshield wipers are going crazy that was just my gift to you just just wait till thursday though when it's supposed to snow and it doesn't snow in la first of all but snow down to a thousand feet uh you're gonna see a lot of cars on the side of the road well it was either the weather or cheese curds okay and I was all out of curd so that's what I brought um so man my last episode thanks everybody for watching that listening to that however you accessed it I got the chance to be the right place the right time to play spooky pinballs Scooby-Doo where are you on location at IO pinball arcade bar in Madison Wisconsin fantastic I can't wait to play it again and it's starting to pop up in other areas too I did want to address a couple of things that I missed on my quick initial review and these of questions that I've got back on it. So one big thing was about the apron locks. So this game is the only one I've seen that does it in this way. Pinballs actually lock onto the apron above the flippers and then can eject back into play. And from the videos that we saw initially from Spooky, this was a mechanism to where you could lock two balls and then actually start a multi-ball. Now, I didn't actually get to that multi-ball mode and it could be because I'm playing the earliest public code of this game and it's not updated or my skills are complete garbage. Either way, I was able to hit the ramps and get the balls to load on those aprons, and then they would go ahead and eject out. I loved the mechanism and how it worked. It felt natural. But what I didn't see was really how to activate the multi-ball part of it. And I guess it's probably because I was so attracted to that Captain Cutler mode. Ryan, Scooby-Doo, right? First season, there's like this zombie pirate diver person. He like glows in green, and he's got the deep sea helmet on.

Mandalorian pinball features Beskar currency system players earn during gameplay to unlock in-game perks

high confidence · Don confirming observation from playing Mandalorian machines

  • Pinball industry experienced a major crash in the 1990s when arcades shifted to redemption games; industry has since recovered and is on trajectory for 20-30 years before potential downturn

    medium confidence · Don and Ryan discussing industry history; Ryan's prediction opinion-based

    • “I think Halo is another great franchise. Absolutely. I think would make a great pinball machine if there's not already.”

    Ryan Davies @ ~48:00 — Non-expert identifies untapped video game IP licensing opportunity for pinball

  • “I think we're going to see a lot of price fluctuation with Bond 60.”

    Don @ ~36:00 — Summary statement on Bond 60th market outlook

  • “Either you're just insanely into Bond and you have to have it no matter what, then it really doesn't matter, or you're some sort of pin curator, I think is who this game is for.”

    Don @ ~37:30 — Market segmentation analysis: Bond 60th positioned for superfans and operator curators, not casual players

    • Mandalorian (Stern Pinball)
    game
    Godzilla (Stern Pinball)game
    IO Pinball Arcade Barlocation
    Juke Jointlocation
    Louisville Arcade Expo (LAX)event
    Tilt Pinballlocation
    Brian Eddyperson
    Rush Pinballgame
    Willy's Wonderlandgame
    Super Nintendo Worldlocation
    Universal Studioslocation
    Dave & Buster'slocation
    Costco/Sam's Clublocation

    licensing_signal: Bond 60th licensing constraints affecting code development and theme integration depth; suggests IP holder restrictions on audio/visual implementation

    medium · Don attributing unbalanced code and shallow theme integration to 'ongoing licensing issues'; notes code may improve post-release

  • $

    market_signal: Premium Stranger Things (new in box) appreciated from $9,000 (4 years ago pre-pandemic) to $15,500 on used market; signals severe supply constraints and collector demand inflation

    high · Don: 'I bought my first pin batman dark knight by stern uh the person i bought her from had a new in box premium stranger things for nine thousand dollars and today i went and looked in the cheapest you can find one right now fifteen thousand five hundred dollars on the used market'

  • $

    market_signal: Bond 60th Edition at $19,999 MSRP with dealer pricing $17k-$19.5k raises viability questions for location operators and home collectors; Don predicts significant secondary market price fluctuation and questions demand sustainability

    high · Don: 'I don't know if I mean certainly in my budget the value that I place on the game doesn't match the value that it's being sold at' and speculation on unsold inventory risk

  • ?

    announcement: Scooby-Doo (Spooky Pinball) confirmed shipping with apron lock multiball mechanism and Captain Cutler mode featuring custom Shaggy callout song; next public location Louisville Arcade Expo

    high · Don's hands-on gameplay at IO Pinball Madison; Scooby scheduled for LAX expo per Don

  • ?

    product_concern: Bond 60th code characterized as 'unbalanced' with shallow theme integration, attributed to licensing constraints. Suggests post-release tuning needed

    medium · Don: 'The code is still what I would call unbalanced... This stake is not seasoned yet, and I think that's due to the ongoing licensing issues'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Brian Eddy (Stranger Things, Mandalorian designer) rumored to be designing Venom next; Venom allegedly delayed by supply chain issues

    medium · Don: 'the guy that designed that game also did mandalorian and is rumored to be doing venom next' and 'that's a game that probably was supposed to come out already but it's been delayed supply chain who knows'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Stern implementing QR code-based leaderboard system with cumulative unlock achievements (spins, drop targets, modes) across games (Godzilla, Bond). Gamification and progression systems becoming standard feature

    high · Don demonstrating Stern account system, describing unlock mechanics on Godzilla (copper/silver/gold awards for 30/500/1000 loop shots)

    • 3:43
    Yeah. All right, that's Captain Cutler. so they made a sculpt of this guy in the upper playfield in the back of the game and you can smash balls into him he's got two targets where like his ghostly green hands are out there and when you hit it a little magnet under the playfield like knocks the ball around like he's using supernatural powers to hold it to control it and so when you hit those three targets that's how you build up to the multi-ball and i did mention it briefly but what i want to say about the captain color multi-balls as soon as it launched all of a sudden the character that plays shaggy starts singing a song about zombies or something like he's singing to Scooby-Doo and it's something I have never heard before it was fantastic I played the mode twice just to listen to it it's got to be a song from one of the like direct-to-DVD Scooby-Doo movies or something because it was this like sing-songy almost sea shanty sort of shaggy singing song so there's a lot of strange things in this game that I can't wait to get to when I could have time to do like a full review or actually get this game into my house. Other thoughts on the Scoobster?
    4:44
    No, I think that was it. I did only play it about four or five times at the arcade bar. I was there for a few hours. There were some other people that wanted to get on it too. So I was taking my time and talking with other folks there. So I'm hoping to give a more deep review once I'm 20 to 30 games deep in this thing. And it looks like from now on, this game is going to be available on location. The next public place to play it will be at the Louisville Arcade Expo. LAX is what they call it. LAX is where I was this morning. Less traffic though, right? Less traffic and homes are basically free there.
    5:18
    Today, I took my boy out to try some pinball on location. We went to Juke Joint. It's this bar in Anaheim, California, 735 North Anaheim Boulevard. And it's a fun little kind of, I don't know if I'd call it like strictly like a pin bar because it's not like they were curating that. But they did have about eight machines on display and pool tables and some darts and a nice little bar. What a great little location in town. I got to play Bond. And Ryan, what were your first impressions of playing James Bond pinball? Hey, you know, it was a lot of fun. I am not much of a pinball player. You know that. I did play while I was out at your house last year, which was really cool. Right. But this Bond game, I somehow got 20 million points. Was it 15 million? Yeah, we played a total of about six games on it. and you you clean my clock sir well and I'm not good by any means I'm far from it in fact the ball tip typically goes between the flippers and right down the middle your ball time was was quite low um comparative you know um you know I bounce flipping I nudging I dead flipping I you know getting multi and things and you know I averaging about 8 to 10 million points You know, this guy in his last game, you know, he builds up that multiplier with the pop bumpers up there, and then he manages to just hit that shot that grants, like, immediately 20 million points. The code is still what I would call unbalanced, you know. This stake is not seasoned yet, and I think that's due to the ongoing licensing issues. at least that's what the rumor is. What did you think of the rocket? That seems to be everybody's. Yeah, that rocket's interesting up there. Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting shape. And yeah, it kind of jiggles and wiggles. Smooth and conical. Yeah. I mean, you hit it once, you just want to keep playing with it.
    7:01
    I'm glad the glass is in place because I'd hate to chip a tooth. Oh, man. All right. And then right next door, we had Stranger Things, a completely different type of game from the same manufacturer. and it had the ultraviolet lighting kit installed. And you were the first person to trigger that when we were playing. Yeah, it was pretty sweet. I'm, you know, I love that kind of, you know, black light stuff and the way that it triggered and just made the whole game experience. When I first actually sat down or stood at the game, I guess, you know, and looked at it, the game looks so dark and that's all I could think. But once I triggered that, it really changed the whole gameplay. There's this concept in pinball that people talk about and it's like a pinball moment. Okay. And what this is, is, you know, you're playing the game, you're slinging the ball around, you're hitting the targets, but then something activates, like the ball locks somewhere, and then a scene plays out, or the music changes, the lighting changes, and it's like something's starting. Like with Guns N' Roses, when you start a song, like Live and Let Die or something, and it's building, and the lights are slowly going out to dark, and then all of a sudden it comes back with a shaker motor, and the lights all lit up, and it's like a great moment, like I've achieved something. And that UV light underground, upside down, in Stranger Things, I think is a good moment. You know, you hit the drop targets you get the uh uh demogorgon ramp to fold down then all of a sudden the the paint in the play field that you can't typically see which is all uv light reactive all of a sudden just comes to life and changes the look of the whole game fantastic i still want one yeah when i i think i asked you there is this new like is this the first time this has been used because it's so brilliant like i think it could be used for so many other things in the world of pinball yeah and you haven't even seen the the game with the projector involved either this one just had the stickers it was the pro version so uh yeah the guy that designed that game also did mandalorian and is rumored to be doing venom next like from spider-man and uh that's a game that probably was supposed to come out already but it's been delayed supply chain who knows the stern has a backlog of games they're trying to work through um but i'm if it is uh you know brian eddie's venom and it can take that kind of because venom's a very dichotomous character you know very black and white so if we can see that flipping of the play field you know i'm gonna keep my pre-orders in on this game yeah absolutely i was bummed that mandalorian was down it was sitting there dark at the very end and not working so yeah we'll have to find that somewhere i played all three versions of mandalorian i can appreciate it i've had some pretty good games on it particularly the limited edition uh blue moon and was in mendes wisconsin i played it there last um yeah it's a good game i like the bones of it i like the theme um but i really am if it is venom next i'm really anticipatory exuberance is what I have to see what this game is.
    9:40
    So, yeah, so it was a good time, a great place there in Anaheim. The L.A. area is not like Chicago or the other upper Midwest where there's just, like, pin bars everywhere. But this was a good location, and I hope they keep building and get some, you know, higher-tier games in there as well. What else did we do today? We got some food. I don't want to bore everybody with that. Oh, a little video drop that we've been waiting on. And this is the Bond 60th edition. So I think I confused the heck out of my friend here when I tried to explain the different tier systems of Bond and how there's two different even versions of that game within that subset. Anyway, the Bond 60th edition, for those of you who know, that live stream is going on actually right now. And I was able to catch a little bit between bites of my Wiener Stitzel Texas barbecue hot dog today. and I've got some hot takes that are kind of in two different flavors. First off, the game itself. Spinning hat in the middle, some kind of wide open shots that look fairly fun. I want to play this game. I want to see this game on location. There's only 500 of them that they're making and probably most of those, 90%, are going to be going to people's homes. So either I'm going to get invited to somebody that was wealthy enough to spontaneously purchase this thing for $20,000 or I'm going to find a very generous location that's taking this expensive game and actually putting it out in the public to play. And I think Tilt Pinball in Minneapolis is the place I'm going to go to for that. But I really want to play this game. I mean, it's a brand new game from Stern. It looks exceptionally well built. I want to see the integration with that LCD screen in the play field and the scoring reels and how multiplayer works. So I'm very excited to check it out and play it my other take has to do with the market price for this game so um this game was initially released by stern on their website you had to pay in full twenty thousand dollars was a price nineteen thousand nine ninety nine then the other place to get it was from a distributor distributors could set their own prices we don't really know what the exact price of it was um to the you know what the what's what's called with a car when you when you msrp no no that's what they sell it for but dealer invoice. Yeah. So the dealer invoice is rumored to be around $15,000. That makes sense. And then dealers set the prices and I've seen, you know, they're not publishing the prices. The dealers are, you have to call them and contact them. And I've seen quotes as low as 17,005 all the way up to 19,500 and somewhere in there. So what's, I don't know what the demand for a $20,000 pinball machine is that doesn't have, you know, ramps and, and, and UV light and, and a lot of music and theme integration because the theme integration has been a little shallow with bond yet and that may be due to the licensing and it may blow up with the code but from this perspective i don't know if i mean certainly in my budget the value that i place on the game doesn't match the value that it's being sold at so what's going to happen to this game over time are there going to be unsold inventory um unsold inventory does not generate any any uh revenue It doesn bring joy right It brings clutter And so how deeply discounted if at all are we going to see this game That's what I'm waiting to see. I don't think that this game is going to be, you know, $19,000 by Christmas. Will it be $10,000 by Christmas? I don't know. What's this going to go for on the used market when somebody's kind of played all the code and is ready to move on to something else? I think we're going to see a lot of price fluctuation with Bond 60. I think it's the best way I can put it.
    13:06
    Yeah. Are you excited for Bond 60th? Hey, you lost me a 20K. I mean, you start talking about $20,000. I mean, that's pretty wild for a pinball machine. Not knowing a lot of the pricing, but that's a lot of money. Well, one thing for sure, walking into an arcade that has this on location, it's not going to cost $20,000 to play it. Well. $2, maybe it's at a Dave and Buster's or something. I was going to say, they've got to make up the money somewhere. I mean, if you were an operator and you put this in the arcade and you did spend $18,000 on it, that's a minimum of 18,000 plays at $1 in order to get your money back on it. So I don't think there's any money in this for an operator alone. But if you've got a refined pin bar and you're selling craft cocktails and mules and such, and there's inflated prices on those due to the high quality that you're providing, and this game is what gets people in the door, that's where I see the value for this. So either you're just insanely into Bond and you have to have it no matter what, then it really doesn't matter, or you're some sort of pin curator, I think is who this game is for. Either way, invite me over. I want to play it. I want to live stream it. I want to touch the buttons. I want to flip the flippers. I want to spin that hat.
    14:21
    All right. Shall we get to the interview portion? Let's do it. What a great idea this was I have. Clueless. Even more clueless than a novice in pinball. Let's ask some pinball questions. All right, question number one, Mr. Ryan Davies, and this goes back to price. What would you expect, and maybe I've led on a little bit more now, but what would you expect to pay for a pinball machine if you were to walk into a supplier, somebody that's got foosball tables, pool tables, roller alley games, which are what are the common people call those? You roll the wooden ball and it goes, ski ball. Yes, ski ball. They had that today, actually. Yeah, so you walk into this place, and they've got these for sale, new. What would you expect a pinball machine to cost? you know so so uh you know you walk into costco or sam's club and you see those kind of consumer level models and i think those are like you know three four hundred bucks right you know some of them are a little jankier than others i know we've seen the virtual pinball there they've you know that's that's on the cheap yeah yeah i'm guessing probably three four thousand dollars i think i think that is a total reasonable estimation and um you'd probably be hard pressed to find something of quality made after 1984 for that price and that's but you know four years ago pre-pandemic all day you could find that i told the story today when um i bought my first pin batman dark knight by stern uh the person i bought her from had a new in box premium stranger things for nine thousand dollars and today i went and looked in the cheapest you can find one right now fifteen thousand five hundred dollars on the used market this thing was new in box like never touched if I only knew, sir. This is Bitcoin all over again. First time I heard about Bitcoin, it was a nickel. And I'm like, virtual currency? What a terrible idea that is. And I think I may have actually been true on that point, but I could have put $5 down on some nickels, some virtual nickels, and cashed out and got myself a Lambo or something. Yeah, I think we all missed out on that one. All right. Well, live and learn hindsight being what it is. Question number two. You walk into an arcade. You see all these shiny lights and everything. You're seeing the Chuck E. Cheese characters playing. You're waiting on your pizza. What would cause you to walk over and play and put money in one of these games? What type of theme would grab you from across the room and cause you to go up there and throw some quarters in it? All right. So as you know, I'm a big Xbox player. Absolutely. I waste a lot of time. Yeah. Don't tell my wife. Actually, she knows. Yeah. It's very obvious. It makes you endearing, sir. I do have two kids, so it's not as much time as I want. But I love the video games. I love Call of Duty, Halo. Those are two great franchises, I think. I don't know what a Call of Duty, and maybe it exists. Yeah. Is there a Call of Duty pinball machine? There is not. Okay, there you go, Activision. Microsoft now, let's go. You know, Call of Duty, I think Halo is another great franchise. Absolutely. I think would make a great pinball machine if there's not already. It's not the first time I've heard that either. People have been kind of clamoring for these video game franchises. I mean, there's been Super Mario Brothers pinball. There's been Roller Coaster Tycoon. but as far as video games themselves we haven't really seen a whole lot like there's no silent hill um definitely no halo and the installed player base for something like that is huge enough that i think you know i mean there already are arcade versions of these games like there's a halo arcade shooter right um so yeah i could totally see that and and a video game is something that's just set up for licensing i mean that they made this product they've got this ip they're ready to milk it you know this isn't like talking to um you know the the estate holder for prince you know um and you know trying to convince them of like what a pinball machine is that you're trying to make why you want to use his music and then when they ask for 10 million dollars say there's no way i could physically pay you that money plus recoup money on this machine i'm building which costs about four thousand dollars or five thousand dollars in parts just to put together to begin with let alone you got to pay the licensing and then you got to have a profit on it to you know employ your workers and everything um but yeah i could see video games being this untapped market. You should be able to do a whole line of them. Well, and I think the cool thing about video games is the progression you play. Like Call of Duty, I unlock guns, and all these challenges and stuff. Imagine a pinball machine where you do that, and you have double XP and all these things. We're starting to see gameplay integration in pinball. That QR code reader that you saw today, that wasn't working because maybe the Wi-Fi is not hooked up or it's not registered. So I have an account I created for free on Stern's website, And so I have a QR code I scan it logs me in it keeps track of like how many games I've played and you know There's achievements to make in there, you know based on how many points you get how many drop targets you hit Did you trigger this mode or whatever you get a credit for that? But also like if you play a game and you hitting a spinner so many times once you hit a thousand spins Cumulatively that unlocks an achievement achievement So there a reason to go back and play that game again With Godzilla there a loop shot that you hit that wraps around the building, and when you do 30 of them, you get the copper award. And then when you do 500 of them, you get the silver award. And when you do 1,000, you get the gold award or something. So there's ongoing gameplay, and that's something that they're working on now. Well, hear me out on this. Do they compare your scores with other people around the world? Because how cool is that? like worldwide leaderboards. So they're just starting with this. There's pin bars that actually have, you know, flat screen up on top and they'll keep like the scores for that month or something, or they can say, okay, we're running a tournament for the next two weeks on this game. Come and play it whenever you want. And the scores will be posted on the leaderboard. And at the end of the term, you know, we'll take the top five scores and you all get, you know, a free beer and pretzel or something, you know? So I think with the just starting to roll this out. And so for something like a halo where there's experience points and upgrades and things that, you know, The farther you play and the more you advance your rank, maybe now you're getting more points and you're following like that kind of leaderboard or something. So I see that as all unexploited open territory for pinball. Maybe we should go have a business meeting or something, Don, because I think we just gave away a few ideas. I mean, right? Yeah. I don't know.
    20:13
    That's why we're sitting here. So when I look at like the easiest way to lose money, I think opening a restaurant is a good way to do it. Starting a pinball company is a great way to turn a billion dollars into a million dollars. just because there's so much nuance in it. But yeah, I think these are the ideas that are being tossed around in the boardrooms right now with these companies that are rolling this out. And maybe they'll have downloadable content, where like I have Rush Pinball and there's eight songs in it, but maybe they release a package where there's five extra songs and they charge me 60 or $100. And then I can download that code and have more things or more integration. So yeah, Mandalorian actually has a whole Beskar currency system within the game that you earn Beskar as you play and then you can cash that out for perks during the game. So I think it's already something that they're thinking about. And the gamification of pinball is, I think, where we're going with our next evolution. Well, I'll be honest. Like, you know, I went out to your house last year. I had no idea that a pinball machine had so much to it. I mean, to me, it was hit the flippers, hit the balls. I didn't realize there's all these things you can unlock and, you know, extra scenes and deleted scenes and, you know, maybe deleted scenes. But anyways, all these wild things, I just had no clue. Right, yeah, and I was interested in pinball as a youngster. I liked to play them at the arcades and things, the family entertainment centers. And then now that I've kind of come back to it again, it's like it's been evolving in the background this whole time. There was a big pinball crash kind of in the 90s where, you know, arcades were changing, they were going to redemption, you know, people weren't really buying these games, and so the industry was kind of struggling along, and then it just hit this upkick, and now it's on such a trajectory that this is going to be like, you know, 20, 30 years before we would ever see like another downturn. and so especially with advances in the gameplay part of it that they're going to be doing so i'm excited about that we got all that out of a question that was good let's see this is this is like this is why you should subscribe to don's pinball podcast i mean just yeah drop me quality content don's pinball podcast on facebook.com hit that follow button i think you know i doubled my followers in the last couple weeks with all this new news that's coming out and there is more to come i think that's enough of my advertising for right now one more question um and this this one was kind of uh just in general like if you were to walk into an arcade family entertainment center whatever would you even be drawn to pinball or would you be going over playing flappy bird or playing the red ball drop game you know or these more kind of like redemption games or ski ball or experiential games you know is there a draw for pinball from someone that doesn't realize you how deep these games can be. I think my respect, or, you know, I definitely look at it differently now that I've spent some time with you and played these machines. Before, absolutely not. Probably not my number one choice. I play the stupid coin flippers or coin pushers. God, I love those. Those are such a waste of time and money. But, in fact, I took my daughter, Dave Busters, a few months ago, and we spent like an hour and a half on the stupid game. And she's like, I want to go do this. I said, no, we're getting the tickets. We're so close. We're going to get that. It's worse than a slot machine. So which one was it? Was it Angry Birds Tower coin one? Yeah, that's really cool. Oh, man. Yeah, that's a cool one. Is there a better feeling than watching that coin tower topple? I mean, you said birth of a child, I guess, but it's pretty close.
    23:26
    Yeah, I mean, the whole redemption thing is just crazy. Give me another $100 of credits. I'm going to make this tower fall. Yeah, I don't know why. I think it's that feeling that you're winning something right away. It's that instant Don's having a wrestling match with his microphone. We're good. We're going to keep going. This will be a full pull here. Don't worry about it. Anyways, you know, that instant gratification, like, you know, some of these games you have to wait for the tickets or whatever, but you watch these coins fall over and you're like, yes, more, more, more. Man, it's designed to feed on that primal whatever we have deep-seated in there. My wife is the same way, and I like them too. The Wonka machine where you get the cards and then you can, like, collect all 1,000 of them and turn them in for a ton of points. That's the other one. I've seen like a DC Comics one. SpongeBob's got a weird one. Yeah, but I feel you. So yeah, hopefully as these start to build and tournaments become more accepted, it's not just people that are at the bleeding edge of flipperdum with their hands full of calluses, but like normal people just get together for a pint or two, some nachos, and like playing in their local league. I'm hoping to see that develop in that manner. Are you talking pinball or coin pusher? I'm talking pinball. Okay.
    24:35
    Coin pusher tournament league. Coin pusher tournament. Come on. That sounds good. I mean, hey. We're just full of ideas. Hey, give me a couple of pints in me, man. I'll throw a lot of money at that and try to get prizes.
    24:46
    Well, good. Thanks for doing this, buddy. Thanks for hosting me this weekend, too. Yeah, man. It's going to be fun. Birthday weekend. It's going to be fantastic. We got some fun stuff planned. All right, cool. Well, you'll hear about all that and more on the next episode.
    24:59
    Of Don's Pinball Podcast. Ryan, thank you so much, brother. Of course. Thank you. Appreciate you coming out. Give me the fist bump. Don's Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. You can get at me. Also, Don's Pinball Podcast at the Facebook page. Just Google it. I've got a lot of merchandise coming. Got some new graphics dropping. If you've ordered shirts, they're shipping soon. They just came in. I've got to package them and ship them out. What else?
    25:21
    Email.