Kaneda's Super Awesome Free Show For TWIPY Eligibilty #1: "Cost vs Creativity"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·22m 0s·analyzed·Sep 8, 2023

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Pinball prices are too high for the creativity delivered; Kaneda calls for design boldness over cost-cutting.

Summary

Kaneda argues that pinball manufacturers are failing to deliver creativity commensurate with rising machine prices ($10K–$15K), citing examples like Galactic Arcade Tank Force and The Godfather as uninspired designs that undersell. He criticizes the industry's cost-cutting approach and praises Pulp Fiction and Keith Elwin upcoming Jaws as models of balanced cost and creativity. He also warns that Jersey Jack Pinball is struggling due to poor code maintenance and suggests that competitors must match or exceed Stern's quality to survive.

Key Claims

American Pinball had three years to develop Galactic Arcade Tank Force and still produced a game with minimal mechanical innovation (diverter button, tank mechanism, suspended cow).
high confidence · Kaneda, directly discussing American Pinball's design process
Keith Elwin designed a full feature game like Avengers in less than a year; he has had two years to work on Jaws, setting high expectations for creativity in 2024.
medium confidence · Kaneda, comparing designer speed and comparing Elwin's past and future output
Stern LEs used to cost $7,500 and were actually rare; current pricing no longer reflects rarity or value.
high confidence · Kaneda, discussing historical pricing and modern collector perception
Jersey Jack Pinball has failed worst at balancing cost and creativity, with The Godfather and similar titles showing poor sales; the company struggles with code maintenance (e.g., Guns and Roses code still unfinalized after 3+ years).
high confidence · Kaneda, directly criticizing Jersey Jack's business strategy and code finalization
Pulp Fiction achieves the ideal balance between cost and creativity—achieved on a single playfield with no LCD screen and generated strong community response.
high confidence · Kaneda, praising Pulp Fiction as a market model
Queen Pinball from Pinball Brothers is overpriced at $11,000 and depreciates rapidly (one resold for $9,200 after minimal play).
high confidence · Kaneda, discussing secondary market depreciation
Stern controls 85–90% of the pinball market and competes well; other manufacturers making inferior products at similar prices cannot win market share.
medium confidence · Kaneda, market analysis of Stern dominance
Star Wars (Stern) appears to be a reskinned game; the hyperloop/hyperdrive feature doesn't fit the theme and suggests original creative intent was abandoned.
medium confidence · Kaneda, speculating on Star Wars design origin and theme coherence

Notable Quotes

“Are you telling me if you go into American Pinball workshop or The Pinball Factory you're sitting in a room with talented designers like Dennis Nordman and Zofia Ryan and the coders and the artists. You can't come up with better stuff to screw to that wood than just a button that changes a diverter, a tank mechanism that's way too close to the freaking flippers and a cow hanging from a wire. Three years.”
Kaneda @ early segment — Core thesis: three-year development cycle for minimal mechanical innovation is unjustifiable and signals cost-cutting compromises
“I would rather own one game where clearly the designer was able to throw his creative juices into that machine and didn't get told no versus all of these games now just feel like okay, like everything looks like it was designed to a cost.”
Kaneda @ mid-segment — States preference for fewer, fully-realized games over cheaper, compromised designs
“I don't like them $15,000 enough to buy a game that the moment I own it, it's going to lose $3,000 in value because other people out there have said yes.”
Kaneda @ mid-late segment — Commentary on secondary market depreciation and loss of collector confidence
“When you tell people you're selling a used machine with low plays, you know what you're communicating to everybody? This game sucks. That's all you're saying.”
Kaneda @ late segment — Notes that low play counts signal lack of player interest, contrary to collector value logic
“The company that's failed the worst at it right now is Jersey Jack Pinball because they took their price way up on two machines that lacked total creativity and the sales are indicative of that.”
Kaneda @ late segment — Direct indictment of Jersey Jack's market strategy and execution
“The bar is not that high. If you look at a game like Venom, are you telling me that nobody can make a game more mechanically interesting than that? Of course you can!”
Kaneda @ closing segment — Sets expectation that competing with Stern's lowest common denominator should be achievable

Entities

Kanedaperson Keith Elwinperson Dennis NordmanpersonZofia RyanpersonEric MinierpersonKeith P. Johnsonperson Steve Ritchieperson

Signals

?
design_philosophy: Kaneda argues that manufacturers are designing games to cost targets rather than creative vision, resulting in uninspired products at premium prices. He contrasts this with the design-first approach (Pulp Fiction, Jaws) where creativity is prioritized and pricing follows.
high · Repeated criticism of 'designed to a cost' mentality; comparison of Toy Story/Godfather (cost-optimized) to WoZ/Dialed In/Hobbit (creatively led); advocacy for 'no budget' design approach with Top Gun hypothetical
?
product_concern: Jersey Jack Pinball's Guns and Roses has been in market 3+ years with unfinalized code, and Scorebit was booted from machines without replacement. This signals lack of product support commitment and design rigor.
high · Direct statement: 'Guns and Roses has been out now for three freaking years, over three years, and you can't finalize the code on the game?' and commentary on Scorebit removal without replacement
~
sentiment_shift: Kaneda identifies a 'great pause' in pinball where content creators have stopped uncritically praising all releases and buyers are withholding purchases until cost-to-creativity ratio improves.
high · Explicit statement: 'The great pause in pinball is great'; reference to years of content creators 'shilling everything' followed by 'now we're seeing the pause'
?
collector_signal: Low play counts on new machines are being used as selling points, signaling machines are unplayable/unappealing to owners. Queen Pinball dropped from $11K to $9.2K rapidly. Kaneda argues low plays telegraph that 'this game sucks.'
high · Queen resale example; statement: 'When you tell people you're selling a used machine with low plays on it, right away after the game just came out, all you're telegraphing is this game sucks'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.066

0:00

Welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast everybody. Happy Friday. I'm your host Kaneda. Here's what I want to talk about on this episode of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Today we will discuss the most popular pinball practise Crossingcard creative mechanism that does not아ck This is the Pinball Podcast Network, where we ask ourselves a very simple question. Is the creativity in pinball, is it aligned with where the cost of these machines are? And now for each and every one of us, we have to ask that question when we get asked to buy a new machine. Because people forget this, this entire hobby for the most part, all of these pinball companies, They 100% absolutely need new in box sales to stay viable. And can all of these pinball companies, there's like 12 of them, there's three new companies about to throw their hat into the ring, there's a mystery game, there's tilt bob pinball, then Padretti's gonna do a remake. Can all of these companies survive? Can Spooky Pinball announce two more games next year? Are we gonna get three more games from Stern Pinball, two games from Jersey Jack Pinball? We're going to get Pulp Fiction. We're going to get another game maybe from American Pinball. All of this is going to want your hard-earned money. And when you look at these games, there's a reason why games like Galactic Tank Force aren't moving. There's a reason why games like The Godfather are not moving. There's a reason why Venom LE will probably never sell out. Because at this much money, you're simply looking at these games, you know what pinball is capable of, And you're saying to yourself, I don't see the correlation between these prices and this creativity. You know, I put up a poll. It was a very interesting poll. It was like, which remake would you like to see the Pinball Brothers and Pedretti Gaming do? Do you know what had the number one answer? A third of you said the following, I don't want any more remakes. I don't want something old to be reskinned into something new. You want brand new creativity. I don't understand. With all of the money and all of the talent and all of the time these companies have to make a great game, American Pinball had three years, three freaking years to make Galactic Tank Force amazing. Are you telling me if you go into a pinball workshop or a pinball factory You're sitting in a room with talented designers like Dennis Norman and Zofia Ryan and the coders and the artists. You can't come up with better stuff to screw to that wood than just a button that changes a diverter, a tank mechanism that's way too close to the freaking flippers and a cow hanging from a wire. Three years. How does it take you three years to make that? Keith Elwin can design a full feature game like Avengers in less than a year. Imagine what What's the pinball going to be like now that he's had two years to work on it? That's why I think everybody is expecting real creativity to return to pinball in 2024 with the release of Keith Elwin's Jaws. But let's stay on this topic for a minute. Why isn't pinball more creative? Am I being too nit-picky? Am I complaining about something that I wish was there that just isn't there? I don't think so. We know and we see so many pinball machines from 30, 40 years ago that had a lot more creativity put into the machines itself. So then it's obvious why the machines are becoming more barren, why the machines are becoming less imaginative, why there's not as much dreaming and innovation happening under the glass because these companies are realizing that they need to design to a cost. And I get it. Like you got to stay in business. But what I don't get is a company like The Designing to a cost why and they've done that now two games in a row They clearly designed a game to a cost when you lift the hood on Toy Story when you lift the hood on the Godfather it's nowhere near as much in those games as games like the Wizard of Oz or Dialed in or the Hobbit and then you lift the hood on these games which they design them to a cost and then look at the Today's talk is going to be a full video, but you're not getting the sales, so it costs them more than the cost they were trying to achieve. And I don't understand if you've got a billionaire backer, why aren't you designing every game to put as much as you can into that game and then when you're done with it. So let just imagine this you give Eric a game like I don know top gun and you say look man just make the best version of top gun possible don worry about the cost but you gonna see where I gonna go with this Why don you just let him do that Alright let say he comes back with a game and it a Top Gun game with everything you could possibly want in it You got the assets from the movie you got the aircraft carrier you got the fighter jets you got a way to launch the multiballs they eject out of the cockpit Everything is in that game that you could possibly want and Eric comes to you and you like alright well Well, what is the bomb to make Top Gun the way you want to make Top Gun? And he says to you, well, it's going to cost us $8,000 to make every single machine with everything I've put into this game. And you're like, all right, fine. And then you know you've got this masterpiece with everything in it that the designer wanted to create. You didn't hamstring them. You didn't give them parameters. And then you price the game accordingly. And we know that this hobby now has enough wealthy people in it where you're gonna find at least like 500 or 1,000 buyers if the theme is right and the game is loaded. Yeah, people would rather spend $20,000 on a single game that has everything they want than $10,000 on a variety of machines that are all compromises that don't have a ton of creativity in it. And that's where I see pinball right now. I would rather own one game I'm not a fan of the word, but I am a fan of the word, but you can't say it's a game where clearly the designer was able to throw his creative juices into that machine and didn't get told no versus all of these games now just feel like okay, like everything looks like it was designed to a cost. And I get that companies like Stern have to design to a cost because they are a mass market company, but it's about everybody else I'm talking about right now. Now, why is everybody else doing the same exact approach? Like making these games that don't have a ton in them, there's not a ton of innovation, not a ton of creativity, and then they want to charge you so much money for the game and their prices are the same as a Stern machine. I mean, we all know this. Stern is laughing all the way to the bank. I mean, they were laughing all the way to the bank with a $13,000 LE and a $10,000 premium. And look, they were shown that people would pay that much money. Do I think people are going to pay that much money on every single title? No, I don't. I think games like Venom are exposing Stern for its marketing strategy. It's not going to work on a game like Venom. I mean, just imagine if Black Knight came out today, like Black Knight Sword of Rage. How are you going to sell that game at $13,000 and $10,000? And so now the pressure is on, like every game Stern needs to make has to have a ton in it. That's the one good thing about high prices. If the creativity isn't there, there's no way you're going to feel like this game should cost this. If you look at the conversation around the Godfather, is the conversation around the gameplay? No. Is the conversation around the theme? Yes. Is the conversation around is this theme worth this much money? That's the conversation. It doesn't matter how much work Keith Johnson put into the code. It doesn't matter how many diverters Eric Minier put into the game. The narrative around that game is simply, is this game worth this much money? And people are looking at it and they're saying no. And I'm happy they're saying no, because it sends a message to Jersey Jack. It sends a message to the distributors. I don't care how much I like my distributor friends. I don't like them $15,000 enough to buy a game that the moment I own it, it's going to lose $3,000 in value because other people out there have no Yes, I can't wait for the next week and I'm ready to go to bed. Thank you. Thank you for watching. I hope you enjoyed it. I will see you next week. Bye, bye. Bye bye. And that's just the stark reality. I just saw someone bought a Queen Pinball Machine. How is Queen Pinball from the Pinball Brothers like $11,000? Are you kidding me? $11,000. And I saw someone trying to sell it for like 9,200 bucks. And they're like look, the first owner put 150 plays on it. I put like 50 plays on it and now you can save $2,800 if you buy it from me. You'd be the third owner of a used machine for $9,200. Are you kidding me? I mean, how many of us have forgotten that Stern LEs used to cost 7,500 bucks and they were actually rare? That's not a rare machine, queen. And also like if you're going to sell a pinball machine, people, do me a favor. Just sell the machine. Don't tell people how many plays it has on it. When you tell people you're selling a used machine with low plays, you know what you're If you're communicating to everybody, this game sucks. That's all you're saying. If you buy a pinball machine and you put 50 plays on it, and then you go to sell it, you are telling everybody this pinball machine sucks. Just don't even say how many plays are on it. Just say it looks brand new. Here's the other thing, just make something up. This is going to be the funniest moment of truth I ever give you on my show in like 10 years. It's a good thing that we have this kind of thing that if you spend like a week and just put an extra five hundred plays on it, it would actually get you more money for your machine. This is not a car people, the low miles don't count. When you try to trade a pin with low plays on it right away after the game just came out, all you're telegraphing is this game sucks and I don't want to play it, you know?

16:52

I won't really fault them for what they're doing because they clearly own like 85 to 90 percent of the pinball market and they own it for a Reason, and if you want to be successful in pinball, it's staring you right in the face erten tila garcia kar logical Comfreyenfariado As you can or improve upon what stern is doing if you're making pinball in Spooky Pinball in 2023, 2024 and you're not at level with Stern or better, what are you doing? How do you think you win market share with an inferior product that cost the same amount of money? I mean, how silly and inane and idiotic can people who go into pinball be? Like, you know what the bar is and the bar is not that high and that's my final point today, ladies and gentlemen, on this Friday episode. The bar is not that high. If you look at a game like Venom, are you telling me that nobody Can you make a game more mechanically interesting than that? Of course you can! There's no way it is that difficult if you've got a year or two to make a single game to get more creativity in your product. Oh man, I'm fired up! I'm all excited about tomorrow's Saturday Morning Spectacular continues. I've had a couple week hiatus. It's been good for me. I've been going to the gym religiously. I've been eating better religiously. I've been feeling great. I've been going to bed at earlier hours. I've cut coffee out of my diet. It's interesting when you cut coffee out and you get better sleep and you eat better and you don't get so stressed out and you don't listen to everybody on the internet telling you what a terrible person you are. Guess what happens in life? You feel good. You wake up, you feel good, you feel stronger and you have more energy. It's ironic that people turn to coffee for energy because it actually has the opposite effect with me because I drink too much of it and then I can't sleep and then I don't have as And I also want to say if anything I've said inspires you to take 20 minutes a day and to just change the way you eat, change the way you think, change the way you work out, change the way you spend your time. I see a lot of people spending a lot of time on Pinside, on Facebook, a lot of time talking about, arguing about, streaming about, talking about pinball. I do this on a weekly basis, but trust me, this is not the center of my life, it's not the center of my universe. The center of my universe is my family. And the reason why I want to take care of myself is because I've had a child later on in life and I want to be around for Killian as long as I can. If you want to get me crying, if you want to see the Kaneda waterworks going, I'm not going to start crying because content creators make fun of me or make videos about how much of a loser I am. And trust me, it doesn't bother me that much. I understand the cause and effects of my actions in this world. And I am a fractured human being. That's always a work in progress. But I think that's somewhat of what makes me interesting. And I think that's somewhat of what people can relate to. I think the world's turned into a place now where everybody always acts like they're perfect. Everybody always loves to point fingers. Everybody always loves to find a moment where you act inappropriately and then they want to like hold on to that moment forever and cancel you. I don't believe in that. Have I made mistakes? Sure. But I don't think anything I've done is truly, truly, truly, truly hurt anybody that badly. And I mean that. And if I have hurt anybody badly, I would love for those people to call me up and let's talk about it. But that doesn't happen. It never happens. People just can't have adult conversations. I want to thank Emily Anderson who I had a great phone conversation with this week. You know, sometimes when there's all this pinball drama going on, I just love to reach out to people and see what's up, like how's everything going, like you know, what do you think, like how do you feel about pinball, how do you feel about what happened, you know, what's going on in your world, like stuff like that. And it just helps to give me a different perspective. So Emily, thank you for taking the time. And I'm super excited, my birthday's coming up in two weeks, and Derek, you know, my best friend Derek, I left him out of the damn video I made recently. My best friend Derek is flying in from freakin' Texas, and we're gonna spend a few days in New York City, and I've got such great plans for Derek. He's gonna get a little slice of what it's like to be Kaneda in New York City. Everybody, have a great Friday. Take care of yourselves. If you're around tomorrow at 10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time, I'm gonna miss Ireland playing in the Rugby World Cup to do this show for you tomorrow. So don't ever say Kaneda does not sacrifice his family time for you guys, but it's not the center of the universe. Pinball should not be the center of anybody's universe unless you work at pinball and it's your livelihood and it's your living. Everybody talk to you soon. Have a great day. MSN TT Thanks yall to the winners andice for watching.