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Saturday Morning Spectacular, May 25

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·53m 0s·analyzed·May 26, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

Stern's John Wick struggles reflect pricing arrogance and design mediocrity; market oversaturation favors patient buyers.

Summary

Kaneda discusses the John Wick pinball machine's poor sales performance and Stern's media tour damage control strategy, arguing the game's fundamental design problems (brutal difficulty, fast play preventing screen appreciation) rather than licensing issues are the real problem. He criticizes Stern's pricing strategy, limited edition saturation, and lack of mechanical innovation, while examining the upcoming Godzilla anniversary edition and its implications for the collector market. He also comments on industry drama involving Colin and This Week in Pinball, and argues that patience will reward buyers as oversupply drives prices down.

Key Claims

  • John Wick sales are abysmal and this is why Stern invited media to their facility

    high confidence · Kaneda directly states Stern would not have done this media tour if John Wick was selling well, comparing to past games (Jaws, Venom, Foo Fighters) that never received this treatment

  • John Wick's gameplay is too fast and brutal, preventing players from appreciating the LCD screen content

    high confidence · Kaneda discusses the gameplay formula as fundamentally mismatched to the 45 minutes of 4K video content; Michael Jones quoted saying 'You just need to nudge it a lot' and 'he never got to look up'

  • Stern LE machines lose more money in resale than Premiums or Pros within six months

    medium confidence · Kaneda asserts this without providing specific data, but uses it as evidence of poor LE strategy

  • Godzilla 70th Anniversary will be made with black and white artwork per George Gomez

    high confidence · Kaneda cites George Gomez's direct statement about the anniversary edition design direction

  • A new Godfather LE is selling for $9,000, down from $12,000 new in box

    high confidence · Kaneda observes dealer pricing showing $3,000 depreciation in ~1 year

  • John Wick Pro uses the same playfield as Premium with plastic covering instead of redesigned drop target area

    medium confidence · Kaneda asserts Stern did not engineer different playfields for Pro tier to maintain production efficiency

  • There are now 14 companies making pinball machines

    medium confidence · Kaneda states this without elaboration, noting market oversaturation

  • Stern invited media outlets that would be less critical (avoiding 'rottweilers' in favor of 'poodles')

    medium confidence · Kaneda's characterization of the media tour guest list; acknowledges Jason Knapp as exception with positive coverage

Notable Quotes

  • “It's getting nuts. There's so much happening.”

    Kaneda@ 0:50 — Sets tone for episode about escalating industry drama and market saturation

  • “The volume, like an ocean of playfields and cabinets and all these 500 people with livelihoods families to feed, spending all of their energy and passion making a game where there are not 500 people who want it.”

    Kaneda@ 2:09 — Critiques the disconnect between Stern's production scale and actual market demand for John Wick

  • “We've never had a Stern game on week one, since they've made this many LEs since the price has been this high, we've never had a launch really this bad.”

    Kaneda@ 2:37 — Contextualizes John Wick as historically poor launch compared to Venom and other recent titles

  • “Actions speak louder than words. I don't care to go over to Stern Pinball and hear George Gomez's words or Seth Davis's words or hear Gary Stern's words. What I think everybody wants to see from Stern Pinball are actions.”

    Kaneda@ 10:31 — Dismisses media tour as theater; calls for pricing and LE number adjustments as real change

  • “Explain to me why your LEs are the versions of your games that are losing the most amount of money.”

    Kaneda@ 24:27 — Highlights the perverse economics of Stern's LE strategy where most expensive tier depreciates fastest

  • “The patient man, and I'm not asking you to be patient for very long, but the patient man will walk in and pay a great price for a game.”

    Kaneda@ 28:16 — Core thesis: market oversupply and price depreciation will reward patient buyers

  • “Stern Pinball is stumbling and nobody else can take advantage of it. Nobody.”

    Kaneda — Diagnoses market failure: competitors not capitalizing on Stern's weakness with John Wick

Entities

John WickgameStern PinballcompanyGeorge GomezpersonGary SternpersonElliot EismanpersonGodzillagameKanedaperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_concern: John Wick's gameplay is reported as too fast and brutal, preventing players from appreciating LCD screen content; fundamental mismatch between game speed and visual presentation

    high · Kaneda states: 'you barely have any time to look up at the screen, what's the point of filling that LCD with so much content?'; Michael Jones quoted saying he never got to look up; comparison to Ninja Turtles' difficulty issues

  • $

    market_signal: John Wick LEs expected to depreciate significantly; Godfather LE shows $3,000 depreciation within 1 year ($12,000 to $9,000 NIB), with used copies $7,500-$8,000

    high · Dealer pricing observed by Kaneda; stated LE machines lose more money than Premiums/Pros; Godfather example directly cited

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern manufacturing fixed numbers of LEs regardless of demand; John Wick 1,000 LEs being made despite poor sales; more LEs of John Wick than Ghostbusters, Tron, Batman despite lower demand

    high · Kaneda: 'Stern's going to manufacture 1000 of these, whether or not there is demand or not'; 'There's more Ellie's of John Wick than Ghostbusters'; 'They really think, Stern really thinks, it's baked a process and a meal that it can serve to us every four months'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Growing community frustration with Stern's pricing, LE strategy, and lack of mechanical innovation; shift from excitement (Ghostbusters/Godzilla era) to 'moaning and groaning'

    high · Kaneda: 'I've been covering this hobby for 10 years and I don't really enjoy the last three years as much as I did before'; 'there wasn't this moaning and groaning like there is now'

  • ?

Topics

John Wick sales failure and market receptionprimaryStern Pinball pricing strategy and LE saturationprimaryGodzilla 70th Anniversary Edition announcementprimaryStern media tour as damage control strategyprimaryGameplay design philosophy and LCD screen integrationprimarySecondary market depreciation and collector valueprimaryIndustry competition and market saturation (14 manufacturers)primaryThis Week in Pinball acquisition and community dramasecondaryCompetitor strategy (Jersey Jack, American Pinball, Dutch Pinball, Pedretti)secondaryLicensing constraints and artwork/theme decisionssecondary

Sentiment

negative(-0.72)— Kaneda expresses frustration with Stern's arrogance, poor business strategy, and John Wick's fundamental design failures. He is critical of the media tour as performative and dismissive of competitors' inability to capitalize on Stern's weakness. Positive sentiment only extends to Jason Knapp's integrity and the inevitability of market correction. His tone is exasperated and didactic, attempting to educate the industry on what he sees as obvious strategic errors.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.159

0:00
What can I say except you're welcome for the tides, the sun, the sky. Hey, it's okay, it's okay, you're welcome. I'm just an ordinary dilly guy. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said. All right, everybody, welcome to the Saturday Morning Spectacular. I think it's May 25th. For those of you on Patreon, you're going to hear this show in the best audio possible. It's been a crazy week in pinball.
0:30
Welcome, everybody, to this Saturday morning get-together. Thank you so much for the support. A lot's happened this week, right? We got that Stern media tour. We're going to talk about that. We've got possibly another Godzilla coming back. What is that going to do to the entire pinball collector space? It's getting nuts. There's so much happening. What do we got going on? We got Jersey Jack, Elton John's are still being made. We've got people waiting on Pulp Fiction. We've got Looney Tunes. You can't sell a set.
1:03
So you can't say I think I killed a rabbit. Right. Apparently, like, is it Warner Brothers? It has like removed Elmer Fudd, like shooting Bugs Bunny and remove the iconic phrase. I think I killed like is it what I think I killed a rabbit. Is that it? Like, I forget what the iconic phrase is. But, you know, this is a crazy time in pinball. And I think as I look at everything happening in pinball right now, and as we talk about it on this Saturday Morning Spectacular, it's just such a beautiful period.
1:36
And I mean this when I say it, to just be patient and see where the dust settles. Let's start with John Wick. Let's just get right to it. So this game is like damage control 101 is happening over at Stern. And they're doing everything in their power to try to drum up excitement for John Wick. And there was a moment when I saw these photos of all of these John Wick LEs on the line.
@ 32:20

  • “It's not about Gun Gate, it's more about the game itself”

    Kaneda@ 3:40 — Refocuses debate away from art/licensing controversy toward core gameplay design flaws

    • Jason Knappperson
    Colinperson
    Seth Davisperson
    Michael Jonesperson
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Dutch Pinball Xcompany
    Pedretticompany
    This Week in Pinballproduct
    Pulp Fictiongame
    Looney Tunesgame
    Godfather LEgame
    Albertperson
    Barryperson
    Melvinperson
    Willperson
    Jeffperson
    Zombie Eddieperson

    product_launch: John Wick experienced historically poor launch; first Stern game with this many LEs at this price point with this weak reception; worse than Venom launch

    high · Kaneda: 'we've never had a Stern game on week one, since they've made this many LEs since the price has been this high, we've never had a launch really this bad. Like Venom was better than this.'

  • ?

    industry_signal: 14 pinball manufacturers competing for finite buyer base; no competitor able to capitalize on Stern's John Wick weakness; market approaching saturation point

    high · Kaneda: 'There are 14 companies trying to make games'; 'Stern Pinball is stumbling and nobody else can take advantage of it. Nobody.'; Jersey Jack Elton John is 'slow burn'; American Pinball sales poor despite $500 price cut

  • ?

    pricing_signal: John Wick at $13,000 LE price point facing resistance; Godzilla LE at $10,500 now seen as benchmark; premium pricing no longer sustainable given perceived value

    high · Kaneda: 'as long as Godzilla is $10,500, it's just not going to work that you try to sell a John Wick for $13,000'; COVID pricing period over but Stern refusing to lower prices

  • ?

    design_innovation: Stern criticized for focusing innovation on digital/Internet connectivity rather than mechanical features; John Wick Pro uses same playfield as Premium with plastic covering instead of redesign

    high · Kaneda: 'The adjustments and the innovation and the technology and the engineering is all happening digitally'; 'They didn't even make different play fields for the pro... They just put a freaking piece of plastic that covers up where the drop target is'

  • ?

    announcement: Godzilla 70th Anniversary Edition announced with black and white artwork and colored Godzilla/atomic breath elements; decision made to create Premium version rather than additional LE to address community backlash

    high · Kaneda: 'George Gomez said exactly how this is going to be... They're going to make an anniversary edition, 70th anniversary of Godzilla with black and white artwork. Something will be in color. Maybe it's the blue beam of Godzilla.'

  • ?

    community_signal: Controversy over Colin's acquisition of This Week in Pinball from original creators Will and Jeff; Colin falsely claiming Jason Knapp as contributor; Kaneda defending original creators' work and establishing historical record

    high · Kaneda: 'Colin basically absorbed all of the subscribers to this week in pinball... he bought it... he didn't earn those subscribers... Will and Jeff created This Week in Pinball and did all of the hard work'; Colin claiming 'it's hard being us' while listing Knapp as false contributor

  • ?

    content_signal: Stern's media tour characterized as selective invitation of less-critical outlets ('poodles' not 'rottweilers'); Jason Knapp differentiated as only credible voice invited; tour intended as damage control for John Wick but unlikely to move sales

    medium · Kaneda: 'you invited the poodles and you didn't invite the rottweilers... the only one of that whole group like Jason Knapp I respect the heck out of him'; tour won't help because 'actions speak louder than words'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern's 500-person facility at scale now unable to produce innovations or respond to demand signals; described as 'titanic boat going down the river' rather than nimble operation

    medium · Kaneda: 'I know you want to make efficiencies... you want to keep that big factory going... how big they now are... It is no longer a nimble operation... can they grow into this new facility?'

    • 2:06
    And it was like a beautiful sight, right? The volume, like an ocean of playfields and cabinets and all these 500 people with livelihoods families to feed, spending all of their energy and passion making a game where there are not 500 people who want it. And when I saw that, right, it's like Stern's going to manufacture 1000 of these, whether or not there is demand or not. And I think everyone is witnessing something we've
    2:37
    never witnessed before. Remember, we've never had a Stern game on week one, since they've made this many LEs since the price has been this high, we've never had a launch really this bad. Like Venom was better than this. Like this was bad. And, you know, watching Stern try to figure out how to just like course correct this whole thing is weird, right? It's really weird. And so
    3:09
    everybody welcome. I mean, I'm looking cliff. This is just an episode. All right. So like Watching everybody do this and watching Stern like invite these people in and watching them try to figure out a way to get people excited about this game, I don't think is really going to work. I don't think it's really going to work. And the reason why is simply this. It's like there's only so many times that people are going to absorb, you know, the astronomical losses. Financially, we'll talk about that. But I just don't think there's a lot of demand for John Wick.
    3:40
    and it's not about Gun Gate, it's more about the game itself and I think that's what's missing from a lot of the distractions if you will is the game itself is pretty brutal it's pretty hard, it's like Ninja Turtles all over again and the early reports from people who have been playing this game they're not walking away in love with the game and then you add to the brutal gameplay, which will never change. Remember this, this will never change. Like if gameplay is
    4:15
    brutal and it's not fun to shoot, or it's like, it's fun to shoot, but it's brutal. Like a game can be fun to shoot and brutal, a game like Rick and Morty. Now look for a lot of people out there that can often turn into more of a frustrating game versus a game you want to own. And I think that's where it's at. A really fast game that is difficult, where you're not going to have any time to look up at the screen, it just feels like they got it all wrong, right? Like the formula is wrong.
    4:46
    Like if you're going to have 45 minutes of 4K video footage, then you're going to want to create a game that has a little bit more stop and go action so you can appreciate everything CERN is putting onto that LCD screen, but they didn't do that. They made a game in which you barely have any time to look up. And because you barely have any time to look up at the screen, what's the point of filling that LCD with so much content? It's just not cohesive and it's just not going to
    5:20
    work. And I think that's another reason why John Wick isn't really catching on with people. You just need to nudge it a lot, says Michael Jones. I don't know. And Michael just said he never got to look up. And I think that's an interesting thing people are experiencing with a lot of these modern games. You know, the moment we have an LCD screen, you have the ability to put a lot on that screen. Jersey Jack. Remember old school Jersey Jack, how they put way too much information on the screen.
    5:50
    You'd walk up to a Hobbit and you don't even know what to look at. Like stuff's happening everywhere. Pirates of the Caribbean, stuff's happening everywhere. Wizard of Oz, there's like four different screens, right? Stuff happening everywhere. So I think we want to get back. And I think everyone feels this way. There is a desire to get back to a little bit more simplicity of what's on the screen and more complexity in what's underneath the glass. And by complexity under the glass, it's two things, right?
    6:23
    It's more ball paths and more toys and more unique layouts. You can look at a Godzilla or an Avengers and you look at all the different ways you can play that game, all the different gameplay elements. And when you look at a game like Godzilla, I think the reason why Godzilla is number one is still that it is a sort of symphony of everything we want in a game. Great layout, great toys, great theme integration, great call outs, great clips, great assets, great music, great modes, great moments, like great everything.
    7:05
    Like you add it all up and Godzilla is a game that checks so many boxes. And Godzilla L.E. was $10,500. So as long as Godzilla is $10,500, it's just not going to work that you try to sell a John Wick for $13,000. And now that Godzilla is coming back, let's talk a little bit about that in a minute. But I want to go back to this media tour that Stern did because I think there's been a lot of back and forth, a lot of nastiness.
    7:42
    and I think people need to all chill out. I think there is a lot of finger pointing and name calling and a lot of nastiness around something that, it was innocuous. Like it was totally innocuous that Stern Pinball was going to invite people to their facility to see behind the curtain, none of which felt radically new. I mean, you know, as much as like some stuff was being billed as like never before seen and some of it you might not have seen before, but nothing radically new just other than the scale was just mind boggling to a lot of people who visited Stern, how big they now are.
    8:27
    And it is a titanic boat going down the river or the ocean. It is no longer a nimble operation. It never was. But now can they grow into this new facility? And so inviting those people over there, so what, right? I don't care. Like, I know Albert went on a rant and Jason wanted to be there and other people wanted to be there. But, you know, as far as I'm concerned, like, I read Jason Knapp's story. It looked like everybody had a good time. I saw them all huddle into a prom bus and go have some drinks and beers and food and
    9:02
    play some pinball and arcade machines. That looked like a good time. As far as I'm concerned, I don't know what the big uproar is really about. I do know that the only reason they most likely did this was because John Wick's sales are abysmal. And the reason why I say that is you just got to ask yourself, why now? And I think why is the most important question to ask right now about what's happening in all of pinball. Why did Stern Pinball right now invite these individuals into Stern Pinball?
    9:34
    if John Wick was a sellout and John Wick was doing tremendously well financially Stern Pinball would not have done this they didn't do this with Jaws they didn't do this even with Venom they didn't do this with Foo Fighters they've never done this before so I think they reached a period where they've realized oh my gosh like we really can't act like the almighty anymore we can't be so arrogant that we're not going to bring in the very people that talk about us, that love us, that keep the conversation going on a weekly basis.
    10:12
    And so I think this move was very strategic. I also think it's not going to do anything. Like it's not going to do anything for John Wick sales. It's not going to do anything for Stern. Because I think you and I, and I mean this when I say this, actions speak louder than words. And I don't care to go over to Stern Pinball and hear George Gomez's words or Seth Davis's words or hear Gary Stern's words. What I think everybody wants to see from Stern Pinball are actions.
    10:46
    And I think the actions everybody wants to see from Stern Pinball is either in action to lower the pricing because COVID pricing is over. And I want to talk about their inability to lower the pricing and the stubbornness to think that people were going to throw $13,000 and $10,000 at John Wicks. I want to see them lower the prices. If you're not going to lower the prices, then the next action I want to see you take is to actually lower the number of LEs on certain titles because you know the demand is not there for that specific title.
    11:25
    They've never done that, right? Same number. There's more Ellie's of Venom than Star Wars. There's more Ellie's of John Wick than Ghostbusters. There's more Ellie's of John Wick than Go Down a List, than Tron, than Batman, than properties with way more enthusiasm. And yet they haven't done that. They really think, Stern really thinks, it's baked a process and a meal that it can serve to us every four months without making any adjustments to it.
    11:57
    And the adjustments they are making, it's not happening below the glass. And this is the real issue, everybody. The adjustments and the innovation and the technology and the engineering is all happening digitally. They are really investing and doubling down on Internet connectivity. And they want it all to be on the screen and on the Internet. and downloadable content is coming and paying for certain perks is coming
    12:28
    and all of that is coming. And so when you look at John Wick, and I mean this when I say this, when I look down at John Wick and I look at what's in the game, right? Let's just forget about the artwork, forget about Cary Hardy waving guns, forget about Hitler quotes, forget about like all the back and forth, forget about it all. All that doesn't mean anything. The only thing that I'm looking at is what they engineered in this game.
    12:59
    And it's 2024. This is like 50 years. What is Stern now? Like 40 years of their experience making pinball machines. And does this look like the culmination of what they know how to put into a pinball machine after 40 years And I know that like Elliot is not 40 years old but Gomez has been in this industry for a long time So is Gary, you know, and like it's just not adding up like there's not enough in the game.
    13:30
    And not only that, there's just like lazy things like they didn't even make different play fields for the pro. Do you know that? Like, look at the pro machine. Where the drop target goes in the pro, they didn't even make a different play field than the premium, right? They just put a freaking piece of plastic that covers up where the drop target is in the pro. So Stern, you know, I know you want to make efficiencies. I know you need to keep that big factory going.
    14:01
    But ultimately, all of your efforts are going to be summarized by how good the product is. And if the product isn't good or the product isn't worth the money, then none of the mediators are going to matter. And no one's going to be guilted into buying these machines because there's men and women who work at the company that have families. I saw that a little bit. There's a little bit of a desire to sort of make people feel somewhat empathetic
    14:33
    to a company that employs 500 people that is connected to thousands of other vendors. And I remember hearing speak like that when the government had to bail out General Motors, right? It's like we had a feel for all the people there that had been making a product that just didn't have the demand anymore and they got bailed out. And I just want to say this. I don't think that those comparisons are equal, But I also don't feel any guilt or empathy or need to bail out anyone who works at Stern.
    15:09
    They're all, no one's forcing them to be there. And I bet they enjoyed working at Stern a lot more when there was excitement for games like Ghostbusters LE and Godzilla LE and excitement for games. You know, there wasn't this moaning and groaning like there is now, right? There just wasn't. I mean, I've been covering this hobby for 10 years and I don't really enjoy the last three years as much as I did before.
    15:39
    I'll tell you why. Because the emphasis is no longer on the games because the games don't add up to the prices and they want to try as hard as they can. They want to try with every iota of marketing skill they have. They want to try with every relationship they've fostered. They want to try as hard as they can to avoid you from thinking about this hobby through that lens.
    16:10
    And I think it's a decade in the making arrogance that as long as it's fun, we can charge whatever we want. and I think that only works is if the fun is through the roof and the product itself is as good or better than games you have already in your collections and so let's talk about what Stern's next move is going to be and it's going to be dicey
    16:40
    because if they make Godzilla premium anniversary edition so if they remake Godzilla and ladies and gentlemen Let's just clarify once and for all, George Gomez said exactly how this is going to be. All right. This is how it's going to be. They're going to make an anniversary edition, 70th anniversary of Godzilla with black and white artwork.
    17:11
    Something will be in color. Maybe it's the blue beam of Godzilla. Most likely it's going to be Godzilla himself. Right. And maybe some of the blue from his, I don't know what you call it, his atomic breath or whatever his ray beam is, right? Okay, so that sounds awesome. I mean, just on a pure do you want a Godzilla black and white, which is way more appropriate for the Toho Godzilla, for the throwback of the show itself, and just more classic feeling.
    17:43
    and dare I say that the weakest link I think I've heard people talk about when they talk about Godzilla is the overly colorful zombie-y art style in the game. That it's just too colorful. Like Godzilla should have been a little bit more muted. Muted? Muted? Muted? Muted? I think it's muted. Godzilla should have been a little bit more muted. It should have had a little bit more of an old school Godzilla feel to it like the old Godzilla posters, and it just feels more colorful like Ninja Turtles, right?
    18:19
    It feels very much along those lines, and I think taking Zombie Eddie's artwork and putting it in black and white is going to get really interesting because there's going to be a lot of interesting contrast now with the game. Yes, Godzilla's skin looked like a little bit like a watermelon. I've heard all the jokes. It's still the number one game in the world, the number one game in the world, maybe the best game Stern has ever made. So say what you will about Godzilla. There's really not a lot of weak links. You know, even nitpicking zombie Eddie artwork is kind of stupid because
    18:51
    the game does look great. I will say this though. I've always said this though. I think the Ellie of Godzilla is boring. I've always felt the Ellie of Godzilla is super boring. I've never felt the desire to have a Godzilla LE. That armor sucks. It's so boring. That Mechagodzilla armor is terrible. The gray, it's so boring. A Godzilla LE does not pop in a lineup. It just doesn't. There are so many other games that pop in a
    19:23
    lineup more than Godzilla LE. Here's what I think is going to happen because you know they wanted to make this a limited edition a la Elvira blood kiss edition. You know, they wanted to so badly to make Godzilla Ellie 70th anniversary. I bet what they were going to do was make 700 of them and make it and they would have sold every one and every single Ellie owner would have been burned.
    19:54
    And you know, that was the original plan. But distributors and us, what did we do? We became toxic Avengers. We spoke our minds. Stern, you can't keep doing this. And George Gomez had to go and course correct. Again, their original strategy was to do what they did with Elvira. See, this is the part George Gomez doesn't get. He doesn't get it. I respect you, George, but the part you're missing, George, is you don't get it.
    20:24
    You don't get it. Because I've heard George's interviews, and he doesn't get it yet. He's like, I don't understand why someone who has an Elvira where there's only 199 of them, right? The signature edition games. I don't understand why those people are mad when we made the 40th anniversary of Elvira. Like, why are they mad? They still have an LE with less numbers attached to it. I'll tell you why, George, why they're mad. it's not just about there being 199,
    20:55
    is that you then went and made another version of the game, the 40th, and you made it nicer than the 199. So you burned those original people because they just want the nicest version of the game, George. This is the part you don't get. Okay, then what did you do, George? You guys, you then went and made a Blood Kiss edition, which is even nicer than the 40th anniversary edition. and now you don't understand why those people who bought the 40th are all pissed off because you
    21:27
    made an even nicer version so george here's what's going to happen now you're going to make a godzilla premium because you can't go back and make more le's because you promised that now you're going to go make a nicer version of godzilla and bill it as a premium and you haven't broken your word, but now you've made, if someone loves Godzilla, the LE owner should always have the nicest version of the game ever. They should have the most unique,
    21:57
    the most special, the most like appealing to look at. Everything should be the best, right? And it's like, you're not gonna do that because you're gonna make a version now that is gonna be the nicest version to have because you're gonna make it better. And then you're gonna piss off, even if it's not limited, you're going to now create, watch what happens to Godzilla Ellie's when this new version comes out. Watch what happens. They're going to go down in value. And then all of a sudden you've pumped more games out into the world.
    22:31
    And again, it's like if Stern continues to do this and make anniversary editions, to make a Batman 70th anniversary edition, if they continue to do this. And by the way, it would be Batman's 60th, not 70th, Batman's 60th anniversary because the last one was in 2016 and that was the 50th anniversary of Batman. So this is what's going to happen, right? And you could keep doing this. You could keep doing these moves and make a Star Wars Boba Fett edition.
    23:08
    You can make an Ecto, a Ghostbusters Ectomobile edition that comes with the topper. You could go make, let's just throw out like Tron, Ellie's all over again. One light cycle's blue, one is the orange. You could do that. you could do make a Batman anniversary edition where 400 Batman editions and 400 Robin editions.
    23:38
    You could keep doing this because the only thing they're doing is they're changing either the color palette or the armor. But Stern, what you don't get is this. What you don't get is this. What's kept your company and kept people buying your new inbox all these years is just this feeling that if I get one of the best, that it's not going to get replaced by something better. And you can't fall back on just the numbers are the only thing that
    24:14
    make it more special because Stern, wake up call. And this is a wake up call to George Gomez and Seth Davis, explain to me this, George and Gary, Zach and Seth and all of you guys. Explain to me why. Your LEs are the versions of your games that are losing the most amount of money. A Stern LE financially loses, within the first six months, way more money than a premium,
    24:45
    which is unlimited, way more money than a pro. So explain to me why you think you're onto something with your current strategy. And so how many times do you think you're going to be able to unload these LEs onto buyers and watch them lose their shirt on everyone while their friends who bought the premiums are in much better shape? And heck, their friends who bought the pros are in the best shape.
    25:16
    So the cheapest Stern is the best buy. That is upside down marketing. That is upside down business strategy. And that makes no sense because what you're saying, Stern, is the people you care the least about holding value and giving them value are the people that are spending the most money. it's like buying a first class ticket and you get the peanuts and the dudes back in coach
    25:46
    are eating a filet mignon and I don't need an all expense paid trip to go see you guys I can just observe your actions and what everybody wants in pinball now Stern is for you guys to stop talking and start making moves that actually repair the damage that you've made with your own customer base and it's not gonna happen by flying ten media outlets I mean other than Jason Knapp you invited the poodles
    26:20
    and you didn invite the rottweilers you invited the poodles you didn want the dogs with any bark and I the only one of that whole group like Jason Knapp I respect the heck out of him And he the only one who covered it too It's like when you see that little clown Colin running around, you see what Colin did in Pinside? He wrote this post being like, because people were sticking up for Jason Knapp. And Colin's like, yep, it's hard being us. And everyone's like, what do you mean us? Like, you're not part of anything, Colin.
    26:52
    you're not in the same conversation as Jason Knapp. There's no us. There's no solidarity. And he's like, yeah, we're all buddies. No, Colin, no, no. You don't get to just walk in to someone else's praise and say, hey, yep, that's what it's like being us, Colin and Jason Knapp. Nope, nope. And maybe you should remove Jason Knapp as a contributor to your kinetesis site because he's not. He doesn't contribute to your site, nor does he want to.
    27:23
    And you don't get to like list people as contributors when they're not. You need to not think that we forgot this stuff, buddy. All right. Okay, us, hard being us, hard being us. It'd be like if someone was coming to like, if Zach Sharp made a marketing move and people didn't like it and I chime in, I'm like, yep, it's hard being Zach and Chris. You know, it's hard being us marketers. Like, you know, he, you know, Zach and I, like, we get it. We get what we get. Why you feel this way? You know, you don't get to put yourself into that association.
    27:54
    Okay. Stick to your last brother. Stick to your last. All right. So look, none of it's going to work. We are in a really brave new world of pinball. The market is so oversaturated. There are 14 companies trying to make games. If you have patience, you will win. If you are patient, you will come out on top. The patient man, and I'm not asking you to be patient for very long, but the patient man will walk in and pay a great price for a game.
    28:25
    Did you just see a dealer now is selling a Godfather LE new in box for $9,000. That's $3,500 cheaper than, no, $3,000 cheaper. I thought it was $12,500. It's $12,000. That's $3,000 cheaper than that game costs new in box. a little over a year ago. Okay, and that's new. Imagine now what a used Godfather LE costs. If a new in box one is nine,
    28:55
    your year old game is around eight to 7,500. And so now you've lost $4,500. How fun is that? You having fun? And the reason why I say be patient and the patient man waits is this. Well, here's the thing, Emily, and then I'll go back to what I was saying. colin basically absorbed all of the subscribers to this week in pinball okay imagine this emily imagine doing this like it's disingenuous it's not authentic he bought this week in pinball
    29:28
    apparently for five bucks or whatever it's sold for um and now he's saying that he has those subscribers okay but you bought it like you didn't earn those subscribers like let's not forget that Will and Jeff created This Week in Pinball. See, people forget this. They created This Week in Pinball and did all of the hard work that made people subscribe, not calling. They got pushed
    30:02
    out of the hobby. They want nothing to do with this hobby anymore. They did so much hard work. It was thankless work. And Colin saw an opportunity to acquire a fan base that he did not earn or create. OK. OK. It's just that simple. And now he's boasting about it. And when he moved over the trip audience to his kineticist Facebook page, he's now promoting it as like, look at them numbers.
    30:32
    Look at them numbers. That'd be like inheriting money and being like, look how much money I got. Yeah, but you didn't work for any of it. You didn't work for any of it. No, John, it's not living rent-free in my head, John. I want to talk about some of this stuff because I think it's important. Because I think people don't understand history and how things went down. And I think people should be giving credit to the people who made this week in pinball. OK, so when I'm out of pinball podcasting and Saturday mornings and Facebook one day, I hope someone stands up and tells the truth of what happened historically.
    31:07
    And it's not about living. Believe me. Believe me, the guy does not live rent free in my head. I don't even think about that guy. And, you know, he only pops up every once in a while and it's like whack-a-mole. He's back down again. You never hear from him. He can't do this. He can't do a Facebook live. He can't do anything. um all right so we are at a point now where the patient man the patient man is gonna get whatever he wants whatever she wants right if you're patient you know when i saw stern making
    31:38
    all those john wick leds i'm like this is good this is good because those games now have to go somewhere and you know where they're not going to go into most people's homes and when that happens they're going to be on sale. And if you want a John Wick and you want an LE and you paid 13 already, you just lost three to four thousand dollars. All right. So look, I think Stern Pinball needs to hear from the people they don't want to hear from. And I know I've covered off mostly on Stern
    32:09
    on this episode because they're the number one pinball company. It's by far like they're so by far in front, it's not even funny. I mean, look at them. They're stumbling right now. Stern Pinball is stumbling and nobody else can take advantage of it. Nobody. There is nobody taking advantage of Stern Pinball stumbling right now, right? They're stumbling. Like, Funhaus remake, that's not going to take advantage of it. And by the way, Pedretti, they still have not uploaded any gameplay footage of their own product. And so why did you
    32:44
    reveal Funhaus and they did it strategically. They saw Stern Pinball stumbling with John Wick. They reveal Funhaus and then what? Nothing. Nothing. Where's the official stream? Like, where's the gameplay? Where's, you know, it's like they're just trying to sell you on the artwork. And I'm sorry, gang, but like, that's not enough anymore. You can't bring back a 35 year old game with a new art package and a 2.0 kit that people don't love and then not stand behind it and follow up with more content and your order banks are open. This is the part
    33:18
    that annoys me is like all of this. It's so thinly veiled. Like if you want to take people's money, give them as much as they need before they have to pull the trigger. But nobody's taking advantage of this right now. Jersey Jack is not. I mean, Elton John is a slow burn. It's not selling like terribly, but it's not selling like crazy. American Pinball taking $500 off its pins, they could take $5,000 off their pins. Nobody's buying them. I mean that when I say it. American
    33:50
    Pinball could take $5,000 off of their pins and nobody's buying these things. It's just there's too much. There's too much out there. It would be nice to finally get these Pulp Fiction LEs. I think Back to the Future is the thing that's got me the most excited. The company that should be taking a little bit of a John Wick advantage is Dutch Pinball X. Like, where is Alice in Wonderland? Like, where's the teasers? Like, where is just announcing the title?
    34:22
    It is an unlicensed IP. Do you know what that means? It's not unlicensed. It's a license that has an open IP, which means there is no license holder. which means Dutch Pinball does not need to get approval to start sharing or talking about Alice in Wonderland. There's absolutely nothing keeping them from building a little bit of a groundswell around this game.
    34:52
    And I've been trying to tell Barry and he's trying to tell Melvin, but Melvin's not listening to me because it's another one of these like stubborn marketing moves where you're just going to pull the curtain off it and think you're going to sell 500 at 14,000. Chris, you said you wanted companies to lower prices and AP and all I'm saying, bro, don't make me rant again. Albert, first of all, it's nice having you here. I know you got upset,
    35:23
    but don't worry. Not being invited to the Stern Media Day is a little bit of a compliment. it means you're doing something right. They didn't want people who wouldn't toe the line there. And the feedback Stern needs to hear, they need to hear feedback from people that are upset. They need to hear feedback from people that need to tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.
    35:54
    And they're not getting it. They're not getting it. Or maybe they secretly join Canada's Pinball Podcast and maybe they hang out here. But Michael Grant and George and Jody and Zach and like, I get it, guys. I get it. You guys are very successful. You've done a lot very well. But you also have done a lot really bad over the last three years. And you're not reading the vibe. And vibe is everything. You know, it's like a company when the culture shifts in the wrong direction and it gets negative and it gets toxic and people start to like second guess.
    36:34
    Why do I work here? Do I do I respect the leadership decisions? Do I feel good associating myself with a company that does this? This is where Stern doesn't get it. they just think that everything gets multiplied by fun, that they can do whatever move they make. And it's just, we're all gonna keep lining up to buy because pinball's fun. And we're not gonna think a little bit deeper about the moves they're making,
    37:04
    what it says about how they feel about us, and what investing a lot of our money in their product in the long term, what that might mean to us. Like there might be some implications. If you spend $100,000 on Stern LEs and your collection is worth 60 grand in five years, how are you going to feel? Right, how are you going to feel? Because that was never the case. You know, it was an interesting week.
    37:35
    It was an interesting week. Did anything else happen in the pinball world that I should be aware of? The story has been on Stern mainly. I think Jersey Jack is getting ready for its next game over the next like probably six months. I'm excited to see what other people do because pinball now is home runner, big miss. You hear nobody talking about ABBA. Nobody talking about Funhouse Remake. The John Wick Owners Club is four pages long, people. If you put up a thread today, how do you feel about Canada?
    38:09
    I'm serious. if you put up a thread on pin side today someone do this how do you feel about canada i would have four pages by noon by noon today there'll be four pages of people articulating what a narcissistic sociopathic nightmare of a toxic pinball personality i am that's cool that's cool if you want to see what live and rent free is go do that thread and see how many people have strong opinions four pages on a brand new Stern game that's been out for three weeks now. And they can't even get past
    38:45
    four pages in an owner's club. That's pathetic. This is the worst launch they've had since WWE. All right. But they can't afford launches like this. Something went wrong. Something went horribly wrong. And I don't know if they have a way out of it. I think they do have a way out of it. It's called Godzilla Anniversary Edition. And then it's called Pokemon. And then it's called Masters of the Universe. Maybe Dungeons and Dragons. They've got stuff coming. This isn't the end. This is a
    39:21
    blip. This is a, you know, this is, this is a flop. I mean, Stern, every once in a while, Stern is going to have a flop. And when they have a flop, they go back to the well. They're smart, Right It smart to go back to the well If you flop on John Wick you make up the millions with another run of Godzilla Zero R zero development costs You already spent all the development costs You can go make millions for doing nothing more than an art package When Jersey Jack has a flop, what do they do?
    39:52
    They release another flop. They don't go back to the well and re-release a game people want. People want Pirates of the Caribbean. All right, so you come out with Toy Story 4, and it's a flop. What do you do? Do you make another Pirates to fill the gap? Nope. You make another flop in the Godfather. And Godfather flopped. So what did they do? Did they go back to the well and make more Wizard of Oz games or more pirates or more of something people wanted?
    40:23
    Nope. They made another flop. Elton John. It's not a sales phenomenon. Now, look, Elton John is a great game. And as much as, you know, I made fun of it at the beginning, Elton John is the game of the year. there's no other game that has made a mark after playing it better than Elton John let me spend a few minutes I can only do an hour show today because I got to go get a haircut we're doing a pro photographers coming in here
    40:55
    to take pictures of the boys and me and Brenda and I told Brenda I need to get a haircut Cassian is sleeping next door let me end this show with some positivity because I want you guys to understand that I love this hobby more than people realize, and that is why seeing boneheaded moves and Stern being greedy really upsets me because they don't need to. They're a very successful company. They don't need to be greedy. Jersey Jack Pinball's Elton John is a magical game,
    41:30
    and the reason why it's a magical game, And I know I've got some Canada fans that don't like it, that think it's cheap, that think it's – no, no, no. And I've played pinball for like noticing what's actually happening in a game now for a little over 12 years. And I want to tell you right now, Elton John is one of the best shooting pinball machines of all time. Elton John is easily I think the most impressive modern pinball experience
    42:01
    you can have it's only second in presentation impressiveness to Guns N' Roses still to me and I'm not just saying this because I have a Guns N' Roses what GNR does with the lights synced up with the song Elton doesn't have that as much like Elton has some moments But GNR as a pure visual wow, like when you watch somebody play Guns N' Roses, there is no other modern pinball machine that creates a visual wow like Guns N' Roses.
    42:36
    Doesn't shoot nearly as well, right? It doesn't. It doesn't even come close. So Elton John is the most impressive modern pinball experience ever. I would say it is the nicest modern pinball machine that checks almost every single box you'd want to have an incredible pinball experience. The artwork is phenomenal. Like it looks stunning. The music and the sound are incredible.
    43:08
    Like it sounds better than any modern pinball machine. You could add some pinwoofers to it. Sure. It doesn't need it. It really doesn't need it. Yeah, you're getting better, but it's great. it's got, I think, some of the best flow in any game ever. The game just is fast, but it's not brutal. You know, take some notes, John Wick. What I love about Elton John is the gameplay is super fast, but it's not brutal. You are going to drain.
    43:38
    You're not going to play for 45 minutes, and you are loving the speed, but you can't take your eyes off the play field. it doesn't bombard you with multi balls it doesn't like you know how to start them you're not just hitting random switches and you're in multi ball all day long like GNR you know maybe some of them get repetitive like crocodile rock but my gosh there is maybe no more fun multi ball beginning than rocket man multi ball and I think everyone needs to just realize this when a multi ball
    44:11
    begins in pinball, it should be a moment you never get tired of. It should be a moment you want to get back to time and time again. It shouldn't be something that's just repeatedly handed to you in a very sterile and boring way like some Jersey Jack games and some Stern games. No, when you get to multi-ball, it should be like Adam's family, like Lord of the Rings to war. Like it should make you feel like there's there's like sweat building up in your hands and you can't wait to tackle what's about to happen. And that's why when you get to Rocketman multiball in Elton John, it is epic. It is wow. It never gets old.
    44:57
    And I'm telling you right now, if all things were considered right now and Colin didn't destroy the stupid twippies with his silly tirade against people being recognized, if the twippies were happening this year, this would be and should be the game of the year. It is that good. now the only thing not working in Elton John is the price is the price and I've said this before
    45:34
    and I'll say it again I'm not so sure Elton John pricing will ever go down that much and nor should it nor should it because the game is that good it just is and when you own it trust me when you own it, you're not going to want to get rid of it because next to Jaws, even though Jaws is Jaws, right? A theme you might would rather have, even though Jaws has like, you know, Stern's approach
    46:07
    to coding, even though Jaws has probably more objectives, you'll spend your whole life and never battle Jaws. I mean, that's Jaws. You know the whole reason why they're doing this, right? You don't see anybody killing Jaws in Jaws, right? How many months has Jaws been out? Has anyone battled Jaws? Is it even in the game? And when it is in the game, you're never going to get to Jaws. But you know why you're going to get to Jaws? Because Stern's going to make a $2,000 topper. And if you buy the $2,000 topper, that'll give you a shortcut to play Jaws right away.
    46:41
    All part of their strategy. All part of the plan. Let's make these guys. Let's give them the Mike Tyson cheat code for $2,000. That's all it is, people. The toppers are Mike Tyson cheat codes for $2,000, okay? But man, I want an Elton John. Man, I do. I, you know, look, financially right now, I just, I sold my Batman SLE. I sold it yesterday, sold it. $28,000.
    47:11
    I'm happy with who bought it. You're gonna see it. You're gonna see where it lands. Could I have got a little bit more money? Yes. I think 30 is where the last one sold. The reason why I took 28, local sale, no shipping, no headaches. And I know it's going to a guy that's not going to like OCD the damn thing. He's actually going to put it out for people to play. So I'm, and you know where that money's going? $28,000 of Batman pinball money is going to $38,000 in furniture that I bought for the family.
    47:50
    As I said to Brenda, I'm 1 million percent happy about that move. When you walk into our home, I don't just want like any table. I know the kids are going to be doing crazy stuff, but I want people to walk into our home and that stuff matters more to me, right? It matters more to me. You're going to see like a beautiful kitchen table. You're going to see a couch that can withstand the children. You're going to see the new like picture frame TV. You're everything. I want my wife to walk into the house and we feel good about it. Jonathan Adler stuff,
    48:22
    you know, five grand here, five grand there, seven grand. Like I just, yeah, let's get it. And when I was furniture shopping, it was crazy because like, wait, that couch is only $2,000. How can this couch be $2,000? How can the couch be $2,000 when a stern topper is $2,000? So I was really happy to do that. I also, instead of buying another pinball machine, I bought myself a little toy. Now, my toy has four wheels because I need another car. The Demon is fully paid for.
    48:53
    Felt good. Final Demon payment. Got the title coming. So now the cost of owning the Demon is only 200 and something bucks a month when I move over to Connecticut Insurance. Brenda and I are going to get her a family mobile in Connecticut in the next couple weeks and then I needed something though I needed something just around town I needed something around town I needed something just to go to the gym in pick up something from the grocery store go visit my brother go visit my parents I'm not going to be taking the demon as my daily
    49:25
    when Brenda needs the car for the kids so I got myself a little something fun I will share the photos of it when I'm done It's very Kaneda. It's very Neo Tokyo. It's very me. And it's not expensive. Now, the other thing is like it's the price of two Jersey Jacks, CEs and like a stern premium. I mean, that's what the price of this car is. And, you know, I would much rather have this. And I think everyone's in the same boat there. We're spending way too much money.
    49:56
    Great games are out there. But, you know, we all know they're not worth this much money. And I'm at a point in my life where I'm still going to have my Guns N' Roses CE. I'm going to still do my show. I have room for two pinball machines. What takes that second spot next to GNR is going to be a battle amongst these manufacturers to see who amongst them can take over the real estate in Canada's cozy three-bedroom house.
    50:28
    I mean that's where it's at. I spent over sticker on this house in 20 minutes after seeing it more money over the listing price than almost probably all of your pinball collections are worth so just know that that you know that this is not a sign of I've hit rough financial times it's just the re I'm everything's still great it's just man homes are expensive and commuting towns to New York City because I'm still coming into work two to three days a week, a one-hour train ride into New York City.
    51:01
    I'm super happy. My house is a four-minute walk to the train station. And when I'm on the train, you best believe I'll be able to read up on Pinside and what's happening on Naps Arcade, put up my Facebook memes. And then by the time I grab the mic, I'm gonna have even more, more stuff for you guys to chew on. Everybody, I love you guys. thank you so much for the support we're at 714 subscribers because of all of you if you're not a subscriber
    51:31
    think about it if you have a friend who just got into the hobby give them the gift of Canada you know 60 bucks a year and tonight I'm going out with Bill Brandis and his beautiful partner and his parents in New York City Brenda has given me permission to take Bill Brandes to my Japanese jazz bar, which is the best bar, not just in New York City.
    52:01
    It's the best bar in the country. It is so good. And there is a line down the block to get in for a reason. There's a line all the way down the block on a Saturday night, a line down the block. Guess who doesn't wait online? Canada. I love them over there. They're like family. Okay, everybody, be good. I love you guys. And we will be back this week with more episodes of Canada's Pinball Podcast. Thank you, guys. You're the best.
    52:32
    You are the best. They try to come at us. 60 subscribers talking smack to 716. Drop the mic, people. Number one. Making thousands and they're making hundreds. It's funny. Canada's Pinball Podcast. He did it again. It's going to break you down. It's making me laugh all day.