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Episode 15: Wonka, Woz, and Balls Everywhere

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Jul 3, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Poor Man's Pinball defends Willy Wonka JJP against community criticism, emphasizing fun and accessibility.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast Episode 15 features hosts Scott Ian and Drew discussing Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (Jersey Jack Pinball) with guests Eric and Ryan Kuiper. The group defends the game against early criticism from the community, arguing that fun gameplay and universal theme appeal matter more than perfect code integration or movie immersion. The episode also includes discussion of classic games like Medieval Madness and The Wizard of Oz as purchase recommendations for Eric.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack Pinball released first shipment of Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory Standard Edition, with units already in Madison, Wisconsin and coming to Cleveland Pub in Milwaukee

    high confidence · Scott Ian discussing current availability and location placements

  • People are 'massacring' the Willy Wonka code online but this criticism is unfair without sufficient play time

    high confidence · Scott Ian expressing strong opinion about premature community criticism on Pinside forums

  • Jersey Jack Pinball continues code updates years after release (e.g., Hobbit update in November, three years post-release)

    high confidence · Ryan Kuiper noting JJP's track record with post-launch support

  • Willy Wonka Standard Edition represents a new pricing model for Jersey Jack Pinball with features stripped from higher tiers

    high confidence · Scott Ian discussing SE as different pricing strategy than previous JJP releases

  • The Wizard of Oz 2.0 requires board version 2.08 for optimal play, with boards available for purchase at approximately $300-600 plus installation costs

    medium confidence · Ryan Kuiper providing technical specifications based on research; uncertainty expressed about exact pricing

  • Keith Johnson (LOTR2 designer) indicated The Wizard of Oz code is comparable to Lord of the Rings from a design standpoint

    medium confidence · Scott Ian citing Keith Johnson as source; claim is second-hand attribution

  • Scott Ian plans to wait for used Willy Wonka machines rather than buy new due to initial oversupply from negative sentiment

    high confidence · Direct statement by Scott Ian about personal purchasing strategy

  • Willy Wonka has universal generational appeal (spans from 1970s film to current audiences) that makes it attractive for location play

    high confidence · Eric and Scott Ian discussing theme reach across demographics

Notable Quotes

  • “Isn't this whole thing about fun? And you know, this isn't cliche. I'm being serious. Like, you know, we play pinball to have fun, and everyone's like, well, you know, the movie magic isn't there.”

    Scott Ian @ early discussion — Core thesis defending Willy Wonka against community criticism focused on theme integration

  • “Good pinball's good pinball. Bad pinball's bad pinball. And people are poo-pooing on stuff that they, you know, we need to give it more time.”

    Scott Ian @ late discussion — Summarizes the episode's main argument about letting games prove themselves through extended play

  • “If you haven't [played it], don't spout all your hate on Pinside and all these forums unless you've had some time on it”

    Scott Ian @ criticism segment — Direct challenge to online community consensus-building without hands-on experience

  • “When you look at it and you have put a smile on someone's face and enjoy and just look at their expression and how they're enjoying the game can you put a price on that”

    Eric @ mid-discussion — Articulates the casual player vs enthusiast divide that defines community tensions

  • “The first game when I told her, Jon Hey, I'm bringing home Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory. I'm bringing it home, baby... She didn't hesitate. And she goes, oh, that's really cool.”

    Scott Ian @ anecdotal segment — Real-world example of universal theme appeal to non-enthusiast demographics

  • “For people listening to podcasts and watching streams and whatever else is going on with pinball media, you know, if you're not doing it, you don't see the amount of work that it takes to put this kind of stuff together.”

    Ryan Kuiper @ meta-commentary — Acknowledges production effort investment across pinball media ecosystem

  • “Strip away the art. Strip away the screen just for a moment. flip the whitewood and tell me, is this a fun game to flip? Because that's the basis of all pinball, right?”

    Ryan Kuiper — Proposes mechanical gameplay as primary evaluation metric independent of theme/screen integration

Entities

Scott IanpersonDrewpersonEricpersonRyan KuiperpersonWilly Wonka & The Chocolate FactorygameJersey Jack PinballcompanyThe HobbitgameSpecial When Litorganization

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Special When Lit podcast celebrating one-year anniversary; portrayed as consistent, professional media competitor in pinball podcast landscape

    medium · Ryan Kuiper: 'They're like Coca-Cola. There you go. You know exactly what to expect, and they deliver every week' in context of podcast quality recognition

  • ?

    community_signal: Special When Lit podcast conducting live streaming of Willy Wonka unboxing; Flippin' Out Pinball selling open-box units to market

    high · Scott Ian: 'Ken, I think, has his Special When Lit streaming it as we speak' and 'Flippin' Out Pinball. They're selling those things open box now'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong pushback against negative online sentiment on Pinside forums regarding Willy Wonka code and theme integration; panelists argue criticism premature without extended play

    high · Scott Ian: 'if you haven't [played it], don't spout all your hate on Pinside and all these forums unless you've had some time on it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball continues post-launch code updates years after release (Hobbit update November, 3 years post-release); establishes track record of long-term support for Willy Wonka

    high · Ryan Kuiper: 'Jersey Jack Pinball is no exception I mean they still did a Hobbit update last November And that game is how old already Three years'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Metallica machine struggling to move in secondary market at $3,200 after 6 months; suggests current glut of Metallica inventory or reduced demand for specific titles

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.152

0:00
Hey folks, ears a-tingling, poor man's pinball podcast a-ringling, Drew and Ian! This is the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, everyone's seventh favorite pinball podcast. I'm Ian, and with me is... Drew. I am here today. Hi, Drew. How you doing, brother? Living the dream, sir. Good, good, good. Do we have other people here? We have two other guests with us today. Two? We got two. This is a new record for the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Two, two, two. Who do we got? We got Eric from Episode 4. Eric Brandon Walker. Eric, welcome back, brother. Doing good. Technically, it's not Brad Walker anymore, though. Walker.
1:04
That's all good. Womp, womp. Love you still. Already ruined it. Who else we got with us today? And we have Ryan Kuiper from TurboGrafx-7. Ryan, how you doing, brother? Doing good. Glad to be here. Welcome back, Ryan. Thank you. Welcome back, Eric. Hey, thanks, guys. Glad to have you guys. Well, you guys are all looking handsome as ever. Let's get into some shit, huh? Let's do it, man. One-year anniversaries. Is that ours yet, Drew? Nope, not even close. We've got to keep doing this, and we will keep doing this. Yeah, no doubt. Special and Lit had their one-year anniversary. Congratulations, guys. So Bill and Ken over there, huh? Yeah. A little round of applause. Congrats.
1:46
I've been listening to them for most of the year, and great job, guys. I mean, most of your episodes are pretty fantastic. Cheers to that. They had some awesome guests. Yeah, they did. When they got Brian Eddy, I was like, what? Yeah, that was for real. That was a good episode, too. I still believe Brian Eddy when he said Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventures.
2:09
That's still what I think. I'm going with it. I don't care. Yep. Nobody knows what he's working, right? Do you know, man? I don't know. I mean, he's working on something. You're our rumor guy, man. I hear stuff. You're our insider. I've heard nothing about Brian Eddy. You know, they also did a great stream a couple weeks ago with another guest, Ryan Kuiper. It's true. Yeah, they did that. They did that. I thought you were talking about Chuck.

Special When Lit podcast unboxing Willy Wonka machines and Flippin' Out Pinball selling open-box units

high confidence · Scott Ian mentioning current vendor activities during episode recording

  • Ryan Kuiper has Metallica for sale at $3,200 and has had it on the market for six months without success

    high confidence · Direct conversation between Ryan and Drew during price negotiation segment

    • @ core argument

  • “I think if I buy an SE, you know, I could probably sell it in a year for, say, $6,800”

    Scott Ian @ pricing discussion — Suggests Willy Wonka SE will hold significant secondary market value despite initial negativity

  • “With this game in particular, I think the standard edition with Willy Wonka is a new ball game for Jersey Jack Pinball because of the price point.”

    Scott Ian @ market analysis — Identifies SE tier as strategic departure from prior JJP pricing structure

  • “They're like Coca-Cola. There you go. You know exactly what to expect, and they deliver every week.”

    Ryan Kuiper @ Special When Lit discussion — Characterizes Special When Lit podcast as consistent, reliable media presence

    • Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Medieval Madnessgame
    The Wizard of Ozgame
    Metallicagame
    Demolition Mangame
    Last Action Herogame
    Dialed Ingame
    Keith Johnsonperson
    Zach Sharpeperson
    Brian Eddyperson
    Pinsideorganization
    Cleveland Publocation
    Kingpin The Gameslocation

    medium · Ryan Kuiper: 'Metallica's been on the block for six months. I'm just too lazy to shop at all'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Debate over whether movie-licensed pinball should prioritize theme immersion vs mechanical fun; panelists argue fun gameplay transcends theme fidelity, citing precedents like Demolition Man and Last Action Hero

    high · Scott Ian: 'Strip away the art. Strip away the screen just for a moment. flip the whitewood and tell me, is this a fun game to flip? Because that's the basis of all pinball, right?'

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball Pursuit pricing for Wizard of Oz and Medieval Madness discussed; Wizard of Oz Emerald City (75th Anniversary) premium variant available; Medieval Madness approximately $8,000 street

    medium · Discussion of pricing tiers and availability of Wizard of Oz 2.0 board version 2.08 at $300-600 plus installation

  • $

    market_signal: Willy Wonka SE represents new three-tier pricing model for JJP with features stripped from higher tiers; Scott Ian anticipates strong secondary market depreciation to $6,800 for used SE units

    high · Scott Ian: 'With this game in particular, I think the standard edition with Willy Wonka is a new ball game for Jersey Jack Pinball because of the price point' and 'if I buy an SE, you know, I could probably sell it in a year for, say, $6,800'

  • ?

    community_signal: Ryan Kuiper demonstrates technical expertise building custom components (Penn Stadiums); capable of board-level machine modifications

    medium · Scott Ian: 'He made his own Penn Stadiums. Yeah, you did. I saw those. They actually look real good' and discussion of board swap capability

  • ?

    announcement: Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory Standard Edition officially shipping with units already in distribution to Wisconsin and Ohio locations

    high · Scott Ian: 'Jersey Jack Pinball releases their first shipment Edition's SEs. Lots of people have gotten them, you know, people in the home, operators. There's one in – there's a couple in Madison already'

  • ?

    product_concern: Community criticism focused on limited code assets preventing desired feature integration; panelists counter that core gameplay is solid despite technical constraints

    high · Ryan Kuiper: 'they're saying because they have limited assets, they won't be able to add the stuff that people want anyways' / Scott Ian responds: 'My response would be, is the game fun?'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory has universal multi-generational appeal; resonates with non-pinball audience despite being pre-1980s IP

    high · Eric: 'it's such an iconic movie that everybody knows. Everybody in our generation knows this. I grew up with this and our children will know this game' and Scott Ian's wife (non-enthusiast) immediately approved game after recognizing theme

    • 2:31
    That was a pretty awesome interview, man. That was, actually. It was great. I didn't know he was in the studio. Yeah, yeah, I was cracking up. I was crying. It was so funny. Of all the interviews I've listened to over the last year, two years, that one was one of the better ones. That was really entertaining. Yeah, he seemed like a super down-to-earth, cool dude. Yeah. Super, super cool. Yeah, well, that was good. Good job, guys. Production quality and just good old-fashioned pinball fun. So that's special and lit. So they're the reason why they're the guys to beat. Twippy might be theirs. I don't know. What do you feel? I think they have a shot, just like anyone else. Oh, absolutely. Bill and Ken, they do a great job. You know, those guys are, I don't even know, I can't think of a metaphor off the top of my head, but they're just solid. They're consistent. Every week you know what to expect. They're like Coca-Cola. There you go. You know exactly what to expect, and they deliver every week. I think after hanging out with them for as long as I did, the one thing I want to say is those are two super genuine guys. Are they the same? I always ask this about a lot of people. Are they the same in person or are they a little different? I mean, they're funnier. I mean, they're cracking more jokes. I don't want to say they're less professional. So are they a little more reserved on their podcast maybe? I think they're trying to be more professional. And I think they do a really good job doing that. But, I mean, it's not like you hang out with them, it's all like crazy. I mean, they're super awesome. Like, it was a blast. And the same with Jason Fowler. Like, super awesome guy. Like, it was great. Drew and I are just laughing because we are the opposite. Well, I just ask because. No, you guys are, I mean, you guys are genuine. No, no, no, it's not about being genuine. Oh, for sure. No, I appreciate that, Ryan. I'm just laughing because, like, if people meet us in person, they're like, you guys are idiots. and when they hear our podcast, they're like, you guys are idiots. So it's very consistent across the board. No, that's the only reason I'm asking. No, because Bill and Ken, they do a great job. Like I said, they're a little more reserved, but they're, like I said, consistent, and they do a professional show, and I'm just wondering if they're like that in person. That's all. I mean, let's just move past it. They're beautiful. They're beautiful people. Love them. Bill, we love you. Love the podcast. I want to add one more thing about this to you guys. Ryan, go for it, brother. You know, for people listening to podcasts and watching streams and whatever else is going on with pinball media, you know, if you're not doing it, you don't see the amount of work that it takes to put this kind of stuff together.
    5:01
    And when I was down there doing that stream in Ken's gazebo. The castle gazebo. It was, the amount of effort it took was insane. So I will always give props to anyone doing stuff like that, like you guys, and especially like Ken and Bill and all that stuff they put on it was awesome.
    5:22
    Well, I plug a few things in. Sure. We make it work. I don't know. It sounds good on the other end, so that's all that matters. But it's not just plugging things in. It's the editing and all that. It's time-consuming. It's very time-consuming. We make so much money doing this. It's worth it. Worth every second. Every second. The pockets are full. Worth every bit and penny. No pun intended. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Just the other day, I ordered four Wonkas because fuck it.
    5:50
    So stupid. All right, anyway. Moving on. Drew, what you drinking today, buddy? Whiskey sour, my friend. Whiskey sour. Oh, whiskey sour. Yeah. What kind of whiskey?
    6:01
    Do you even have that? I'm joking. I'm not going to even dignify that with a response, sir. All right, Kesslers. Anytime you want to sponsor this fucking asshole. Kessler, this isn't even a shill. I will promote your product up and down. I've been drinking it. I'm pickled. I'm really 90 years old. No one knows that. But, yeah, I've been drinking your whiskey for 80 years. He's so great. That's the secret. Eric, what are you drinking, brother? I'm going with the Belmont Estates Coconut Rum. Ooh, that's the Caribbean rum that we brought back. It's delicious. That's the St. Kitts rum. That's the rum of St. Kitts. It is so tasty. I'm also having one of those, but I'm also double fisting. I tried a new beer today. What is this called? This is from the brewery Third Space Brewing, and this is called Happy Place Midwest Pale Ale. I was laughing with Drew today because we were drinking this, and I was like, man, this tastes like an IPA. I didn't realize. It's a pale ale. MPA, IPA. It's quite a hobby. It's the same thing. So, hey, Third Space, not bad. Good beer. Midwest has replaced India with a Midwest pale ale. There you go. MPA. And Ryan, are you still drinking your Zima, brother? Yeah, two of them this time. Two Zimas.
    7:18
    Turbos on another level, guys. Now, after being on vacation, I'm drying out a little bit. He goes from wet to dry just like that. Just like that. Flip the switch. Never mind. I'm not going to go there.
    7:34
    We love you, Ryan. All right. What do we got first on our program today? Well, I got this scrappy piece of paper here, and it's Wonka.
    7:45
    Wonka. What is there to talk about Wonka? Did anything happen since last week with Wonka? Lots of Wonka talk. Jesus. First, Jersey Jack releases their first shipment of Wonka's SEs. Lots of people have got them, you know, people in the home, operators.
    8:03
    There's one in – there's a couple in Madison already, Madison, Wisconsin. There's one coming to the Cleveland Pub here in Milwaukee this week, actually. What did they say? Kingpin Games on Wednesday or Thursday, potentially. Okay.
    8:20
    Ken, I think, got his special one lit, right? They're streaming it as we speak. Okay, cool, cool. So the big talk has been about the code, and people are just massacring this thing. And I just think it's really unfair for a couple of reasons. And I have some strong opinions about this. I'll sober up for this. Okay, that's how serious I am about it. Drew went from red drunk face to red mad face.
    8:49
    My emoji game is strong. No, I'm just really upset because, you know, people don't like to have fun anymore. Isn't this whole thing about fun? And, you know, this isn't cliche. I'm being serious. Like, you know, we play pinball to have fun, and everyone's like, well, you know, the movie Magic isn't there. Okay, some people aren't going to buy this game for theme. There are people out there that are. I understand that. But, you know, a game like Monster Bash, there's not a movie for it, right? It's just a game, and it's fun, and you like to shoot it. Why can't Wonka be the same thing?
    9:26
    I'd raise that. I'd raise you one. I agree with what you just said. But you could even say it like this. people are going to buy Wonka for the theme, but they're not looking to relive the movie. That make sense? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. If you're not a pinball player, or if you've not played a lot of pinball, and you pick up a Wonka, it will satisfy every need you have for reliving that movie. But for some reason, when you're really, really into pinball, and you've played a lot of pinball, all of a sudden, now you look for more integration. You need more integration. because you've seen what it can be. So now all of a sudden, if it's not hitting certain ticks on your checklist, now all of a sudden you're kind of fucked, right? Because it's one of those things.
    10:14
    You're doing, you know, Jersey Jack, I think, when I played it, and this is an early demo of it, I enjoyed it. I thought Wonka when I walked up to it. That's just me. And I'm going to bring up a couple of older games, and you guys can agree or disagree. And I understand it's hard to compare because, you know, we keep talking about technology and innovation and stuff. But at the end of the day, it's still a pinball game. It still has the silver ball. It still has flippers. So everything under the glass, there isn't that much advancement. Right. We can all agree on that. The switches and stuff. The big advancement is the big screen that Jersey Jack uses. So I understand that. But let's look at a game like Demoman. Okay. That was, guess what? That was a movie, ladies and gentlemen. When you play that game, do you say, oh my God, this totally brings me and immerses me into the movie? No. But why do we like that game? Because it's fucking fun. Super fun. Sorry. Another one. The first game I ever bought, Last Action Hero. The movie actually did pretty well. It's Arnold Schwarzenegger. It was a cool movie. Right?
    11:20
    I didn't think about that movie when I'm playing that game. It was just a fun game to play. and and there's a hundred other examples like that you have any or you you want to add to any of this uh ryan well i think when i first walked up to wonka the first thing i thought was this isn't what i had in my head i guess what i had in my head was the uh that chocolate river area where they're like everything was edible and like that was what was in my head but you're saying you wanted to eat the pinball machine i would have i get what he's saying but i said oh it's not what i had in my head but what they did was done very well and the game shot like butter everything was just boom boom boom boom it's it's super flashy it it it's not like it's radically different from other jjp games the the shots are a lot like dialed in right it's It's very similar as far as being flowy.
    12:25
    And, you know, the thing about code is so funny, especially when games first come out, because everyone's like, oh, the code sucks. Well the code both well I shouldn say both all these companies continually do code updates JJP is no exception I mean they still did a Hobbit update last November And that game is how old already Three years. Yeah. So same thing. I mean, I would not worry about code in the least.
    12:54
    The game's beautiful. The gripes about the artwork is nothing to me. But I'm just going to challenge you here. The part about the code that people are having the biggest issue with is even with more code. And I agree with you on your statements because I'm in the same camp as you. But they're saying because they have limited assets, they won't be able to add the stuff that people want anyways. What do you say to that? My response would be, is the game fun? Thank you.
    13:21
    I mean, that's all that matters. No, that's the point I'm making throughout this whole thing because I always tell people, strip away the art. Strip away the screen just for a moment. flip the whitewood and tell me, is this a fun game to flip? Because that's the basis of all pinball, right? Just the shots and the layout. And that thing has good shots and layouts, in my opinion. And I know some people differ, and that's fine. Eric, you were with us at MGC. What did you think of Wonka? We never got your take on it.
    13:55
    I really enjoyed it. I think when it comes to pinball, you have two different type of people who are looking at it. You look in people who are kind of like the experienced pinball enthusiasts who think of it as a, oh, this doesn't have this, but it should have this instead. And it should really go with this instead. Or I wish this would have this. and then there's others who look at the play field or look at the game and play it and they're like this is really fun look at look what i just did there that's so cool look at look at what just happened when i did that like a five-year-old like a like a child exactly when you look at it and you have put a smile on someone's face and enjoy and just look at their expression and how they're enjoying the game can you put a price on that and can you put not only that but it's more of is jersey jack more for selling the game or making it for people to enjoy the game as well i think a little bit of both but i think with wonka you're doing uh uh they're they're gonna probably reach more towards the enjoying the game portion because it's such an iconic movie that everybody knows. Everybody in our generation knows this. I grew up with this and our children will know this game. I think multiple generations. It kind of spans for the 70s. The movie was made before we were alive, but yet we all know the movie. To add to what you were saying,
    15:32
    I think this is a game when put on location, people go whoa. Willy Wonka promotion. Oh, agreed. Fuck yeah. You see that big Wonka logo right there? You're like, I want to play that. Absolutely. And it's bright. It's flashy. It's got the LCD screen. Oh, yeah. It's going to draw them right in. Oh, totally. I'm going to say this once again. Everyone knows my wife is not into pinball at all. I've brought several games into the house now. Games have left. Games have come in. Wonka is the first game when I told her, hey, I'm bringing home Wonka. I'm bringing it home, baby.
    16:08
    I was, the conversation was a little different when I was talking to her. He didn't have his pants on, kids. I know. Here, here I'm like, I'm bringing a home baby there. I'm like, tail tucked between the legs. Hey, can I bring this home, please? So if I take out the garbage, can I get a pinball machine? Have you been watching me and my cameras at home? My cameras, yeah. But she, she didn't, she honestly didn't hesitate. And she goes, oh, that's really cool. You know, so here's somebody who, yeah, once again, she's she's the same age as me we were born in the same year you know she grew up watching wonka like the rest of us and she goes that well first it was it's not going to be johnny depp is it but but when i showed it to her she got it and she said yeah that's really cool so that that says a lot for someone who you know she didn't like metallica she didn't like iron maiden you know uh she's lukewarm on hobbit and simpson you know simpson she likes because she's a simpsons fan too but it's a very uh generic theme where everyone knows everything it's not specific to correct yeah yeah it's just it's it's one of those universal themes and um just to kind of wrap this up with a nice little bow though about all these people that are complaining hey first of all i think some of these people once again they haven't played it enough i haven't played it enough i get that i need i want to get some time on it but if you haven't don't don't spout all your hate on pin side and all these forums unless you've had some time on it and you say is this a good pinball game to your point ryan you know is it fun well that's i mean that's the thing is it fun yeah uh is it gonna draw people in on location yeah look at the thing yeah i mean it's got an amazing theme and it's so flashy those look those little pencil eraser size leds they put in the playfield i mean all that little stuff people were bitching about that they said oh they're just little lights little lights there are little well are you kidding me you know one of ryan's favorite games in his collection is dialed in well the the theme isn't great everyone can admit that it's like yeah it's okay whatever man does that game fun to play it's super fun we streamed it ian who wasn't a believer and dialed in loved the game it wasn't i wasn't a believer I knew Pat's my boy, so. Yeah. Okay. Well, there you go. Pat can't do any wrong in my book. Fair enough. Well, whatever it is, but I'm just saying, we've all come to the same conclusion, though. Good pinball's good pinball. Bad pinball's bad pinball. And people are poo-pooing on stuff that they, you know, we need to give it more time. Oh, absolutely. I think is where we're at. That's my take on it.
    18:50
    I like Wonka. hey wonka's coming to my house one way or the other um you know ryan and i were talking before the episode here tonight and you know i think we agreed that and the distributors are going to hate me for saying this but i'm gonna wait for a used one just because because of all these people that are poo-pooing it zach many's dick got flaccid right there sorry sorry zach sorry does it help if I talk like this.
    19:22
    But I think, you know, we've all seen in the past what happened with Hobbit and Dialed In and other games. I mean, Pirates was a little different because they stopped making it prematurely. Wonka is very popular. They're going to sell a lot. I'm going to sit on it and wait, and I think eventually I will have one in my house, but I'm just going to wait for a nice used one. I think it's going to be a very well-selling game for J.J.P. Sure. And they might keep selling it for a few years. And that's great, and I'm very happy for them, and I'd like to buy a new inbox. And I might buy an SE, but Ryan and Ian seem like they're going to punch me in the face if I do that. Not punch, no, snake bites. Buy an SE? Snake bites. Snake bites? Yeah, both arms. What? No, as he's giving you a snake bite, I will punch you in the face. No, I'm joking. Hey, man, it's your money. I'd be damned if I'm going to tell someone how to spend their money. Yeah, do what you want, man. Absolutely. It's not even about that. It's just, I think if I buy an SE, you know, I could probably sell it in a year for, say, $6,800, right? I guess I'll say this. With this game in particular, I think the standard edition with Wonka is a new ball game for JJP because of the price point. Fair enough. It is. And the fact they took shit out of it.
    20:39
    Wonka better. I'm going to call my SE the special edition. Okay. it makes me feel better I'm special, my mom says I'm special so, you know no, that's good, alright well, okay, so Wonka, you still injured then? I'm still injured I am a believer once again, before the podcast I was asking all these guys, you know I have this money set aside I'm ready to pull the trigger, Zach Manning give me my deal you just said used oh, you know what you can do? What? Contact Zach after they unbox tonight at Special and Lit. Flipping out. They're selling those things open box now. Zach, are you listening? Yeah, why don't you go with that? No, I'm being serious. Yeah, email that fucker tomorrow. I'm sorry. Right now. I'm swearing a lot now. It's because I'm drinking. I'm sorry, Orville. Should we call him on air? Zach? Oh, yeah. That might be fun. Anyways.
    21:37
    That's shaking. We've only done that once, and that was with Ryan, and even then I felt bad. That was fun. No, no, but what I was going to say is we were talking about, you know, like I said, I have this money set aside, not necessarily for Wonka. I'm getting another game. The wife said, okay, I'm good. I might get something else and then, you know, trade it for Wonka later. Sure, sure, sure. So, you know, I'm looking for suggestions. Yeah, no. There you go. All right, four guys at the table. All right, so thumbs up or thumbs down for Wonka. You're a thumbs up, Drew. Thumbs up. Eric, thumbs up. I'm a thumbs up. Two thumbs up. Wow, two thumbs up. Ryan's cheating over there. So he's got two thumbs. Would you get rid of any of your games for Wonka, Ryan? We've talked about this. Ooh, that's a good question. Ryan's got a lot of really good games, but he's got a lot. He'd get rid of Metallica for it. Well, Metallica's been on the block for six months. I'm just too lazy to shop at all. No time. How much are you selling that for? I might buy that.
    22:34
    We can work out a deal if you like. $3,200? $3,200 is a little low. I got it. Are we in the ballpark? No. I love that laugh I'm like yes I'm getting another Metallica he's like no this is good podcasting right here folks I love it live bartering with Drew ok 3250 yeah wait until he says 3200 and I'll wash your car for a week it's one time dude a week one day you'd only do it one day bro it's clean I did it on Tuesday I'll take your broken foot sparky all right what do we got all right eric i wanted to go back to you brother since you're a little quiet over there man i wanted to bring you in last time we heard from eric it was episode four and we were he was discussing possibly getting a pinball machine and we talked about playboy right yes that was playboy you wanted a lord of the rings and if i stopped those are the two right There's a couple. There's The Hobbit and there was Medieval Madness. I have two of those four games. I have a Hobbit for you right now. I know. I played it. You won it? It was broken. That's exactly why I don't want it.
    23:50
    It was working this week. He probably wants a Black Arrow. It works every other week. It's a deal. It works every other week. You can play it on Wednesdays and Thursdays. and on full moons. But Friday and Saturday when you have people over, it won't work. Don't do it. Don't have anyone look at it. Yeah, you can play it by yourself and have fun. As soon as someone comes over, you're like, hey, check out my awesome machine. I have eight balls in the ball trough. Isn't this a five-ball game? Yep, but there's eight balls in the ball trough. Oh, my gosh. I remember playing that. I was like, why is there so many balls? They just keep popping up. But you drain one. The whole game's over. But for the kids it was awesome because they're like, oh, there's balls everywhere. And they're playing and flipping and you're like, this is cool. And I'm like, they don't care that my game's fucked up. This is awesome. That's right. So anyway. That's a 25-15 mark. I'm going to write that where Drew said, balls are everywhere. This is great. I'm going to save that for our intro next time.
    24:58
    All right, Eric, go on, sir. No, no. So I'm in, you know, just looking around on Pinside, just, you know, the market every once in a while. I'm looking at a Woz and a Medieval Madness would be my top two at the moment. Okay. Let's go around the table here. Woz or Medieval Madness, Ian?
    25:19
    I would do Woz but Medieval Madness would be a great number two That would be I mean it your first purchase We have to keep that in mind right Ryan Can I go back and just say whichever one you can get cheaper Okay. Because you can't win either. You can win either one. True. But you're really not. They're both almost identical, right? In price? I mean, you're. I thought Waz would be a little bit more, but. It depends on which version. Six to nine, right? But. Is Waz still going nine? Waz or. Medieval Madness is. Eight thousand. most of the time. So you're at 75 to 85. The new ones? Yeah. What kind of game do you enjoy playing? What style? Well, that's an extra fill of the game. Good question. These are two totally different games. Okay. I like, and I explained this. You have played a lot of Medieval Madness. Oh, I love it. Yeah, I have it on my phone. I have the Williams app. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love playing that. I love a game that has a ton of toys on there, and it's a ton of toys and it's very just it's really fun to play and i played both medieval madness and wizard of oz and wizard of oz is fun to play but i really really enjoy medieval madness the i just love doing a lot of stuff in that game um but wizard of oz i'm not gonna lie is a lot of fun too and here oh let me give you a little more specific in this one too i'm looking for specific wise. I'm not looking for the yellow brick road because that's like a lot of money just recently came out. I said douche money, which is probably the same.
    26:55
    We're going down that road. Wow. Sorry, that is exactly what I heard in your douche money. I'm not looking for all those listeners that have douche money. Sorry.
    27:10
    If you're a listener and a fan of us and you get douche money, we support you. If you bought a yellow brick road, it was a great purchase. Thank you, guys. Congrats on your douche money.
    27:20
    We love it. I'm not looking for the ruby red. I'm looking for the emerald city, the green. Was that the 75th anniversary? Yes. Now. Yes. Ryan is the JJP. He's our JJP correspondent. I've done some research on the Wizard of Oz. 2.0. Yes. That's the only thing. The boards. Yep, make sure you have the 2.08 boards. But they have those available for all of them now, right? You can purchase them. You can purchase them, and then you can install them. Oh, what are they, like $300 or something, right? I think they're more than that. No, more than that. And I think the install is what kills you. I think five or six, I think. How hard is it to swap a board? I heard that there's screwing involved. I screw pretty good. What else?
    28:06
    I think that's it. You're shooing then. No, I heard. I should start. I've not done it, but I've talked to people who have. I made my own Penn Stadiums. Yeah, you did. I saw those. They actually look pretty good. I saw them. They look pretty good. He's capable. Bust out those guns. Although, he didn't mention on that last podcast about his poor man's stadium that there are fucking, it looks like a goddamn power cord is coming out of those things.
    28:31
    His Penn Stadiums look like they could power my car. Those things are like an inch thick. I don't understand how they got so thick. It's like charging a Tesla. Oh, my God. They were huge. Anyway, I'm sorry. Two different types of games. So, do you understand the rules of Woz? Not really. That's when you're going to get hooked. Now, I do not hide the fact that I am a Keith Johnson fan. Whore? Fan? Yeah, same thing. Keith said that that would be his version of Lord of the Rings 2 from a code standpoint so if you like Lord of the Rings you would definitely love Woz, I don't have a Woz I want a Woz, my wife wants me to get a Woz that's her favorite game I want it because of the code the theme doesn't do it for me but the game itself is easily one of the most beautiful games for me exactly, it looks very flashy it's just eye appealing it's everyone can play it everyone can play it it's not like you know metallica it's like when steven look i'm not really into hard rock or something like that i'm not gonna play that i mean everybody knows wizard of oz you know so that's what entices me a lot as well it's tough because price points about the same two totally different games and it's very difficult to find a good price medieval madness it's the same price as there's pretty much a brand new one Another thing, you will not be disappointed with either. No. Especially being a newer pinball. It's your first game.
    30:05
    You will have a lot of fun with both. Your wife, your kid will enjoy both. Because both those games lend themselves. How old is Atlas now? He just turned four. Yeah. Okay. So his son's four. Both those games are really good. His son's taller than me. He is. True story. He's a big boy. And your first choice about trying to get a Playboy from Episode 4. Yeah.
    30:31
    Maybe better for Atlas, but we're scratching that. Make better life decisions, as Bruce said. It's still in the back of my head. I'm not going to lie. I'm getting one of those. Hey, it's a fun game. I played it. It's in the back of every man's head. Yeah. Get a Playboy machine. Why not? It's Hugh Hefner, and it's got beautiful women on it. But no, so you can't go wrong. But what you can go wrong with, if you don't pull the trigger. Oh! I'm calling you out, Eric. Well, I would just say that both will work for him. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Ryan's point, though, is true, though. Woz is deeper. You will get more longevity out of it. Here's the thing. It is deeper than medieval madness. Oh, it's way deeper. But the thing is, even though Woz is infinitely deeper than medieval madness, is Meat of a Madness is very fun to play over and over, just like Monster Bash, just like Attack from Mars. So it's not like you're going to play Meat of a Madness and be like, I'm done. You're going to be like, all right, round two, let's go. I only destroyed the castle twice. This is bullshit. And that's why I keep replaying it over my phone. It's like, I kind of want to play this again. This is really fun. To your point, Ian's got this Monster Bash here. I get to play it every week. I still play Monster Bash on my iPad because it's just such a fun game. Those three games, Monster Bash, Attack from Mars, Meat of a Madness, they're all Lyman games. Yep. And who also did Metallica, Walking Dead. Oh, okay. A lot of really great rule sets. Batman 66. Yeah, so I mean, out of those two games that you listed, you literally have two of the programmers and everyone's like, who's the best one? Ah, okay. So, I mean, man, it's tough. You can't go wrong. You can't. You could almost flip a coin. But it is Brian Eddy, too. That's true. Yep. I love me some Brian Eddy. And here's the other thing to consider, Eric, and we probably talked about this before, but you buy it.
    32:27
    You see me. I've been putting games in and out, right? You buy it. After six months, if you want something else, sell it and get something else. Yeah. It's true. Absolutely true. So as long as you buy it at a reasonable price, you'll get most of that money back. And then if you want to get a different game, then get a Wwise. I may end up getting a used Wonka. Who knows? There you go. There it is. I really enjoyed it playing it. I would probably, with Medieval, are we thinking remake? Oh, yeah, the remake, yeah. They are doing a remake with the big screen.
    33:01
    The big screen? Has that been confirmed? You mean they already have the color screen? Yes. Uh-oh. Well, I was told. Let's rewind here a second. Uh-oh. I heard it too. I don't know if this is confirmed. I heard it too. Do you have insider knowledge there, Ryan? From the company? No. You heard it here first, folks. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Shooting from the hippocampus. Here, let's edit that. Say from the company, yes.
    33:28
    Edit, edit, edit. If I were you. It's a horse apiece. It's really you. It is. Whatever you. I want a Woz too. I'd go Medieval Madness. Here's the thing. What's your vote on it? This is... Give a ruling. I'm not joking when I say this.
    33:48
    You have to get both. You laugh, but no, you do. And that, once again... Not an option. No, it is an option. Hear me out, Eric. Hear me out. We all started off with one. Yes. Yeah. There are, at my house, I told my wife when I got my first one, I'm like, we're just getting one.
    34:09
    There's 11 in my house now. And only six are mine. You're like a heroin addict. Heroin addict. Oh, my gosh. It's a true story. Same with me. And that's, you know, my room's smaller than his space there, and that's why you see me swapping these games in and out. Like, once again, Metallica is my favorite game, but it's not in my house because I played the shit out of it, and now I'm getting new stuff, you know? I mean, I like it. So if you're into the hobby, yeah. Okay. And then get four. work up to 11 i have bought two at once like two days are we still talking about pinball two days before my daughter was born i bought two i rented two pinball machines let's do it you guys feeling saucy always do you feel like a little bit of love saucy's my middle name so cue the music we're doing it it's coming back kids for this episode Oh.
    35:07
    Love letters. This one, Drew's shooting from the hip. Love letters. Drew's shooting from the hip. Shooting from the hip. Ryan doesn't have one. Eric spent three days making his. And if this one doesn't turn out, edit, edit, edit. And I wrote one myself, but you know what? You guys go first. No, you know what? I think we should go first. Who? It should be Ryan. I wrote one for Ryan. Oh.
    35:32
    Nice guy. No, that's the thing now. I'm going to just keep writing them as I feel saucy. So, Ryan, why don't you start us off with your love letter written by me.
    35:45
    I made sure it was extra raunchy just because I want to hear Ryan say these words. All right, Ryan, take it away. That's not too bad. Dear Twilight Zone, mind you, this is the words Ian's putting in my mouth. That's not all he's putting in your mouth. literally crammed the paper into my mouth. Everyone wishes.
    36:09
    Your fat ass body is something I would like to get close to. And when I say close, I mean I want to be inside you.
    36:23
    A clock with gears. Four magnets. A gumball machine. Magnetic flippers. So much sexy goodness that just makes my knees weak.
    36:35
    And this part here, it's almost accurate. Pat, I will have your babies. Love, Ryan. Alright, there you go.
    36:44
    Love letters. Alright, I'll go next here. Dear TNA, when I first heard the abbreviation TNA, I thought, yup, it's about time they made a pinball about T and A.
    36:59
    Then I found out I was mistaken and it was about shutting down nuclear reactors. So that made my pants brain reset quickly.
    37:07
    My pocket bugle had to go back to sleep, but the game is cool. I love you. T and A. This segment gets worse every time we do it.
    37:23
    Eric, why don't you take us home? Eric, go for it. Alright. Dear Pinball, I wish I had enough money to purchase you.
    37:36
    Don't tell my wife, but I'd like to go on a date with you. I love to do some nudging in your gobble hole while multi-balling your super jet pot.
    37:51
    Your bumpers will need a rest when I go for your extra ball and drain all over you. I change your mode into four players and plunge you your popper until I reach grandmaster
    38:14
    What do you say? Pick you up at around eight? Hungerly yours, Eric. Oh. Holy fuck, that was good. Oh my god. Eric's good at that. God, you're like fucking Hemingway, but for love letters.
    38:36
    The R-rated version of Hemingway. Holy shit. All right, Drew. Take us home, brother. I've been busy all day, and I literally wrote this while they were doing this. I was watching. Yeah, it's true. Hey, I was busy all day, too, and I had a Ghostwriter. Yeah, where's my Ghostwriter? Sorry, dude. I had the idea earlier today, and then I was like, I'll do it later, and then it just never happened. So, yep, this is literally 30 seconds of work. You guys ready for this?
    39:09
    My love letter is to a new in-box game. New in-box game. I love how you smell. I love when the driver drops you off at my house. Yep, he drops you off because I paid a lot of money for you. Then I need to call my friend Ian To help get you in the house And Ryan Cause you guys You're a big package That I gotta get into my house They help lift you in my house I'm 40-15 Big package Ben and Ian and Ryan Help me get inside your box how dirty can we get love Drew hey good job everybody holy shit man that was good oh man that's pretty good right on the fly not bad that was really good and by the way that was dedicated to Brad Hopkins there you go Brad I was going to say Brad might not like this Brad will not like this Brad I know you're listening We love you, brother. Yeah, it's all good. We love all our Canadian brethren. Because once again, and I don't make this up, I'm French-Canadian. My grandfather was born in Canada. So I love you guys. Eh? Yetter? Hey?
    40:39
    That was just racist, wasn't it? Are you predisposed to Tim Horton's coffee? I love Tim Horton's coffee. Oh, that's crazy. That is crazy. Well, yeah, I think that was good love letters. I don't think we're going to do it every week. but we will sprinkle it in here and there when the mood hits us right. We've had a few, believe it or not, emails requesting love letters. You know, I think we've had more that have been pro-love letter than anti-love letter. Yeah, it's just been Brad.
    41:08
    Sorry, Brad. However, however, but then again, you know, it's not special if we do it every week. So we'll do it every once in a while just to make you guys feel good when you're driving there, going to work or whatever. So that'll be the love letter segment. And instead of a mailbag this week, maybe we do a few shout outs to a couple of, uh, I don't know. There's some good, good podcast stuff this week. Yeah. I've been listening more to orbital Albert. Um, he's a good dude. I just, I like listening to him. Uh, pinball nerds podcast, pinball nerds podcast. I love you orbital. Yeah. He does good stuff. He's, he's enthusiastic. Absolutely. You know, he's just, he just loves what he does. He does it all the time. I appreciate it. Same thing on his streams. His streams are good, too. Yeah, I need to watch some of his streams. And he always advertises his streams on his podcast. And I'm always like, I need to watch that. I do. I just need to watch what he's doing. Because it's, yeah, good job, Orbital. Yeah, he's pretty funny. And I liked his assessment of us. He goes, you know, he's like, they swear too much. Then he kind of retracted that and said, ah, you know what? You guys swear the perfect amount. And then we were just laughing. And then he goes into the whole, I don't think they're poor men because here I am doing my podcast on my flip phone from like 94. And they actually have microphones and they're talking about their $8,000 machines that they're going to buy. And he's like, one day I might have enough money for one of those, but not now. And I said, well, all that is very well noted. Thank you, sir. Oh, that's too good. But yeah, you know, whatever. I don't know. We don't spend a ton on this stuff, the podcasting side. But yeah, dude, I have one machine, you know. Orbital, if you sold all your machines, I think you could pull off a monster bash. I'm pretty sure. Sure, sure. That's the sacrifice I made, so.
    43:06
    And Drew, Drew, he's sacrificing his marriage, his life, his job. Drew doesn't give a fuck anymore. We are middle class all day long. We are. and in a couple of my alice drew pulled up in a broken prius true story that his boss gave him yep a dented prius that i paid zero dollars for i love it yes um my alice cooper's nightmare castle is officially on the line that's a good shout out yes i am number 157 we love you charlie yep they are in the 140s now they're they're making them they're getting off the line So I should have mine in a couple of weeks. We're actually going to do a road trip. Road trip? Yep, because Spooky is two hours away. We are going to go there, and we are going to pick up Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle, and we might do a podcast along the way. And I'm not leaving until I find out what Denise's next game is. So I'm going to bring some chains, a couple padlocks, and I'm going to wear no pants. Hunger strike. I'm going to learn pretty quickly what this game is. I'm sure the answer will be no, but we should try to get Eric Pripke to come with us. Yeah, he'll say no for sure. Nobody wants to take a two-hour trip over there. But I do. I'll go with you, brother. Ryan, you in? Work-depending, yeah. Eric, you in? Work-depending. No, that's the beauty of it. It doesn't have to be a certain day. We can coordinate it. All right. We'll coordinate it. I'd like to see their facilities. I don't know how the hell we're going to fit in one vehicle. We'll make it work. going to bring down there. Eric doesn't give a fuck. I'll rent the van. He doesn't give a fuck. We'll figure it out. We'll rent the van. We'll do whatever. Because I'm dropping off my Hobbit there to do a swap.
    44:53
    At Spooky? Yeah. Oh, okay. Chris from Kingpin Games, he said, yeah, just drop it off there and he'll pick it up, which is cool for him. I was thinking, what if I'm like, yeah, I just won't drop it off and I'll say, hey, come to my house. Just pick it up. No. Can't do that now. But either way, we need a place for a game. So we'll figure it out, though. Very cool, man. I'm excited about it. You excited about Alice Cooper coming? Oh, my God. Super. Every time I hear more about the game, I read about the rules. It's just so cool.
    45:24
    That was fun to play at Midwest. That was really fun to play. How can you not dig the rule set, the way they set that game up? I mean, that's pretty badass. Yep. No, I agree, brother. I agree. All right, man. That's going to do it for this week. This week is done, man. And we're at 46 minutes. Wow. So we did all right, guys. Two weeks in a row, we did it? Well, we're going to edit this. It'll be back down to 35 for everybody there driving. But no, I'm joking. It was good. It was a good episode. We'll keep it going. We'll keep it rolling. Try to keep them short and concise. Right, guys? It's better that way. All right. Well, on behalf of poor man, I thank you very much for listening. My name is Ian. You can email us at thepoormanspinball at gmail.com. There you go. Poor man's pinball. And then like us on Facebook, Poor Man's Pinball Podcast at Facebook. So this week I shared a bunch of memes. I didn't really do much. But it was funny. I got some good responses from the memes. But, yeah, again, emails, poormanspinball at gmail.com. Send us your love letters. We will read them on the air.
    46:28
    Send us what you like better, Waz or Medieval Madness. Ooh, nice. That would be a good poll. Well, we'll put up a poll on Facebook. Make sure you vote on that. Maybe we'll figure out what Eric should spend all his hard-earned money on. Eric, you have no control anymore. The deciding factor. America, you decide. Eric, have you asked? Call it now, America.
    46:50
    Have you asked your wife what she wanted? Probably a was. Most likely. She has not played it. She's seen the Medieval Madness on my phone, and she tried a little bit. But she's like, I can't play this. You know, you're tapping. And she's like, Matt, you can't do it. but we did go to Updown and we did play Medieval Madness there and she did enjoy it but I do have a feeling she would like Wizard of Oz a lot more just for the theme factor I think you solved your dilemma they have one at Updown? Medieval Madness? yeah it's in like a corner I think Woz is a great family friendly game as far as mass appeal I think that's why so many wives are like yeah get that game And the husbands are like, all right, fine. And then they're like, wow, this game's amazing. Good call, honey. No, that has... See, it's all her idea.
    47:43
    That's why that game has sold so well, because that is one of the few, what do they call them, chick games where... No, I... Call that a chick game. Family friendly. Yeah, family friendly. Well, no, but there are games that are skewed more towards the female persuasion, and that's one of them.
    48:01
    The females that don't play pinball, how's that? So that's the centipede of everybody. Wasn't that always the big thing about the centipede arcade game? Like, it was female friendly. Oh, really? Yeah. They gravitated more to centipede and millipede than any of the other games. Sure. No, they're always out there. I mean, you know, when you have, like I said, like, my wife's a great example. You know, she's just not really big into pinball. You ruined my exit, by the way. This is way too long. Yeah, whatever.
    48:30
    Like, I care about ruining your shot. You know. All right, hold on. What was that? $49.55. If you can find a game that your family likes and your wife likes and your kids like, it's a win. Yeah, it's a huge win. That's all I'm saying. And Medieval Madness is actually one of those three. And truth be told, the way I would look at it more also is the kids. Getting the younger generation into pinball. That's kind of the way I look at pinball.
    49:00
    It's cool getting other people into pinball who aren't into it, But if I have friends over with their kids, I'm like, let the kids play pinball. Yeah. Yeah, the kids playing Hobbit at my house, the broken Hobbit, they were having a blast, you know. And, like, some of the older people are playing Simpsons and loving it. But, yeah, the Hobbit, they're like, oh, this is so cool, you know. So, yeah. I think, once again, go with either one. You'll be fine. And there you go. All right. So, wrapping up this week's episode. I'll try again Ian in his captain hat edit edit edit I'm gonna edit the shit out of Drew I'm wearing a captain's hat because I was piloting this shit today so and then I got mutinied yeah it's alright I love you guys Drew hijacked this plane yeah I love when Drew drinks on these shows it's great alright so emails at poormans himba poormanspinball at gmail.com there's no podcast in there poormanspinball at gmail.com and like us on facebook at poormanspinballpodcast also tell us your love letters and send us your love letters and send us what you think maybe we'll manage it and should Ian pilot the ship or never again I'm fucking done with this should Drew hijack the ship I'm done with this All right, well, thank you very much. We love you guys. All right, what do you think? Say bye. See y'all. Eric. See you guys. All right, Drew. Peace.