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Ep 145 X-men and Avatar

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 4m·analyzed·Sep 5, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Loser Kid hosts praise X-Men's bold design innovation; Avatar tease builds hype ahead of reveal.

Summary

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss the newly revealed X-Men pinball machine by Stern, praising its innovative offset flipper design and unique Danger Room mechanic as a refreshing departure from recent pinball trends. They also briefly preview Jersey Jack's upcoming Avatar: Battle for Pandora game, analyzing theme licensing value and cultural impact. The hosts express cautious optimism about X-Men's gameplay potential while emphasizing the need to play before purchasing.

Key Claims

  • Avatar franchise has generated over $3 billion in total box office revenue, with the sequel earning over $1 billion post-pandemic

    high confidence · Josh discusses Avatar's box office performance compared to Marvel films; cites research on franchise earnings

  • Avatar merchandise has only generated approximately $153 million in gross profit despite the film's massive box office success

    medium confidence · Josh states he researched this figure online but expresses uncertainty about accuracy ('I don't know if this is true, it kind of scares me')

  • The last offset flipper design in pinball was Gold Wings in 1986

    medium confidence · Josh recalls this as his reference point for offset flipper games, noting it predates his birth

  • X-Men is a B-tier theme in terms of marketability, below A-tier franchises like Harry Potter and Star Wars

    high confidence · Josh and Scott discuss franchise tier rankings based on gross profit and cultural impact

  • Wayson Chang is the code/software designer for X-Men and has previously worked on Jurassic Park Home Edition, Heavy Metal Monsters, and Deadpool

    high confidence · Josh and Scott research and confirm Wayson Chang's prior code work on multiple Stern titles

  • X-Men features a Sentinel head mechanical element with actual ball paths around it rather than empty space behind it

    high confidence · Josh and Scott discuss the Sentinel head design during playfield analysis; note it differs from simple impact mechanics

  • The Danger Room is accessed via a high-risk, high-reward shot on the right side that feeds into a single mini flipper

    high confidence · Detailed discussion of Danger Room entry mechanics and layout; comparison to similar features in other games

  • X-Men Pro model does not include the articulating Sentinel hand animation that appears on Premium/LE versions

    high confidence · Josh asks whether the hand articulation is on Pro; Scott clarifies it is not

Notable Quotes

  • “I went from like anxiety, panic, whatever it is...pinball has been on a downhill slope for a couple years now. Things have felt a little stale. And so when you hear a risk being taken where it's offset flippers...it makes you like, 'Oh, crap, are we just trying stuff now?' And then this comes out, and you're like, 'Oh, this feels new and unique, but yet familiar.'”

    Josh Roop @ ~22:00 — Summarizes Josh's emotional arc from concern to enthusiasm about X-Men's design philosophy; articulates broader community sentiment about pinball design stagnation

  • “This qualifies as 'I want different. I want different. I want that.' Yeah, because it looks really good.”

    Josh Roop @ ~28:00 — References the famous Marty Haynes quote ('I want different, but not that') to suggest X-Men successfully balances innovation with playability

  • “Avatar holds the record for most money made for a movie...it's over three billion dollars. But if you ask when was the last time you saw someone wearing an Avatar shirt? When was the last time you saw someone sporting Avatar gear? That's nothing compared to a movie.”

    Josh Roop @ ~5:00 — Frames the Avatar IP licensing paradox: massive box office but minimal cultural merchandise penetration or fan engagement

  • “If you took the top 25 franchises of all time, Harry Potter's up there. Star Wars is up there. Pokémon's up there...X-Men is a little—it's a smaller—it caters to a smaller audience.”

    Scott Larson @ ~27:00 — Establishes X-Men's B-tier status based on franchise tier rankings; explains the distinction between B and A-tier IP in pinball context

  • “The Sentinel literally gives you the finger to stop the ball. I think it's really cool that the hand comes down and smashes the wire form.”

    Josh Roop @ ~35:00 — Highlights the novelty of the Sentinel hand mechanic as a distinctive playfield feature

  • “This is a game that has a potential of feeling like a Deadpool or swapping out a Deadpool because it looks tough. It has some interesting shots with velocity, but it also is taking it to a next level.”

    Josh Roop @ ~50:00 — Josh positions X-Men as a potential game worth rotating into his collection, unlike recent releases

Entities

Josh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonX-MengameAvatar: Battle for PandoragameJack DangerpersonWayson ChangpersonZombie YetipersonJersey Jack Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Hosts express strong interest in hands-on X-Men gameplay experience at upcoming Pinball Expo rather than purchase based on reveal alone

    high · Josh: 'I want to play this game. I can't wait for Expo...I want to play it absolutely' and 'play a game before you buy it'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Avatar IP positioned as B-tier theme in marketability terms despite massive box office success; Avatar merchandise only generated $153M vs. Star Wars' multi-billion total

    medium · Josh: 'Avatar's made 153 million dollars on gross profit for merchandise...Any idea how much Star Wars has made? Literally, George Lucas...leveraged Empire Strikes Back based on selling toys'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jack Danger's X-Men represents intentional risk-taking in playfield design with offset flippers and non-traditional Italian bottom, departing from recent conservative design trends

    high · Josh: 'when you hear a risk being taken where it's offset flippers, it's not very traditional...it makes you like, Oh, this feels new and unique, but yet familiar'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Marvel has exclusive relationship with Zombie Yeti for pinball art direction; company waits for his availability rather than using substitute artists

    high · Scott: 'Marvel requests him. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. They will wait to get him'

  • $

    market_signal: Jersey Jack's leaked photo approach for Avatar teaser appears effective at building organic community discussion and momentum

    medium · Josh: 'This is a good way of people talking about it...this is super beneficial about having it released now as opposed to ten years ago'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.193

0:00
thanks for tuning into the loser kid pinball podcast this is episode 145 it's a brand new day i am josh roop with me my co-captain as always scott larson and scott is it's a wonderful day it's it's new pinball day right okay this this is like one of those things where it's it's quite quite and then hey let's uh hit you with an avalanche exactly and the response to this game has been insane we're obviously talking about x-men we could also be talking about avatar we got two we got two yeah and so if we're if you're gonna buy that game you know the best place to buy it from is flipping out pinball from zach and nicole many with greg bone as the tech support they will get you taken care of and when you buy a product i know you're buying a pinball machine but honestly you want great customer service to back that product because in a perfect world we wouldn't need to fix these machines but we don't live in a perfect world and zach and nicole and greg will get you taken care of from all the way from diagnosis all the way up to getting your part repaired and replaced all under warranty they do fantastic work and i mean the haggis situation should give you an idea of how much their word means to their customers. So check them out, flippingoutpinball.com. Get your X-Men, get your Avatar through. Right, Scott? Absolutely. Yes. Okay, so what do you want to talk about first? I would argue let's talk about Avatar because it's just a teaser. So right now we basically know that Avatar is the theme that Jersey Jack is going to be pushing, and we have little snippets of this. so yeah but we so we have less information on that and i wanted to a deeper dive on avatar when the game is revealed in probably two weeks or so before you do that though i want to i want to hurry and give us a plug we're both wearing our hockey jerseys yeah you're wearing the black one i'm wearing the white one yep these things are comfortable they're nice and big dude i'm loving this like you can wear a hoodie under i got extra large it's very baggy you could put a hoodie underneath this stay warm i will also point out i was concerned because a lot of times when you get a hockey uh sweater they're called sweaters but um they they tend to be really thick and really heavy and warm these are light and i do like that where it feels like you know when you go to the pinball shows you're wearing things around i tend to get really hot because all the games and everything like that this is very cool very comfortable and yes it is baggy like a hockey sweater is so it it looks great and i i love both of the styles i have your style too i just didn't wear it tonight yeah i've got the other one as well i got got the wrong size but they're getting taken care of there you go but uh yeah and uh i think we got one for keith ellen's gonna be going out soon and uh shane told he didn't get a hockey jersey he got a loser kid attacks shirt but man hey both good yeah great great stuff if you want to check that out silverball swag.com slash loser kid so let's talk avatar battle for pandora really we don't have a ton to go off it's been not much he's for like a week now yeah with leaked if you can't see me if you're not watching leaked photos uh what do you think of this approach you know okay actually yes yes okay well okay how can i put this this is something that has been done right and this is what tends to be the go-to way and it actually does work out a little better at teasing something getting people to talk about it and it does build momentum because what happens is and i still remember back when i first got into pinball there was just a random hey here's mustang yeah and everyone okay this was before podcasting became a huge thing before the little fan forums and everything but it felt like oh mustang and oh that's okay i've seen it and it it really didn't move and i know mustang's not a huge theme unless you're a mustang fan right yeah but it did uh it did help out you know i just realized everything's so dark just a minute there we go okay so we have new cameras and so we're getting used to the new equipment Yeah. But this is a good way of people talking about it. I know that with the Internet and all the interesting thing, the the negative things that the Internet can bring, but also the positive things and that you can find these niche forums in these fan areas. we can talk about these things and this is one thing that is super beneficial about having it released now as opposed to 10 years ago yeah because people start talking i was like oh what do you think about this what do you think about the theme what do you think about what's going on and it does give you a little bit of a sense here's what's your thought here's my concern okay so avatar i i don't mind like i've seen the movie i've seen the first one i haven't seen the second one but i think you and i had a discussion about this and i actually did some research and avatar holds the record for like most money made for a movie right it's over like three billion dollars it's ridiculous for the first movie yeah franchise or now is it still like the highest money making movie yes so it was endgame and then beat it in the states but avatar beat it worldwide so what happened was is endgame beat it and then they re-released the first one long enough to beat the record i see so avatar still is number one and that's not including i know the second movie did over a billion dollars as well like it did really really well post pandemic yeah we're talking four billion dollars okay let's let's conservative three billion dollars a lot of money for a franchise a lot of money yeah i mean it took marvel like 23 movies to start well it took probably about 15 movies before it started getting in the billions right okay so we have this movie that's made billions of dollars yeah when was the last time you saw someone wearing an avatar shirt when was the last time you saw someone sporting avatar gear and i did the research and i don't if this is like true it kind of scares me but the number of the figure i could find online was avatars made 153 million dollars on gross profit for merchandise right any idea how much star wars has made that's nothing that's nothing compared to a movie exactly what i just said any idea how much star wars has made millions or billions literally george lucas financed he leveraged empire strikes back based on selling toys make sense he uh this was way before they knew merchandising was going to be a thing and certainly it's a lucky bet on his uh on his standpoint but he got all the merchandising options from star wars dang lucky and don't want to make any more movies right so he got all the merchandising from that and i i am the star wars generation star wars came out when i was four okay and so like this this was the thing for at least seven years everybody had a billion star wars toys yeah so he was able to leverage that to finance uh i don't know if he financed the whole thing of empire strikes back or finance the great the greatest deal so that's why he got so much creative license to do what he did for empire strikes back um now i i know different times right okay the star wars was 1979 was empire strikes back 77 was the original 77 so when you look at that versus now you know so when did the original avatar come out like 2010 nine eight something like because i know they've already done a game right yeah so they've already done a game 2009 and so it's been out there for a while however i don't know of something that has the same cultural impact that uh you know and i know star wars it's not totally fair because we're talking almost 50 years for star wars so uh it is a different time different world literally a different world with the interconnectivity of the internet and and different ways people can get things but is it possible to have the same sort of cultural impact that maybe a star wars it and maybe that's unfair i hey we are we're going to be talking about marvel right now so let's talk about does now marvel had like 23 movies and that's a problem though too because you bring that up but marvel's been around since the 50s 50 60s it has but really the original x-men actually yeah the okay canny but before we transition to this okay so what have you thought so far just the just the teaser stuff okay we got a full teaser trailer today yeah Well, okay. I was mainly talking about just the type of merchant or the type of theme impact, I guess. So now you're going from a comic book that I read as a kid too, by the way. The whole teaser that George Gomez talked about, that was me. Like I read – I was huge into comic books in the 80s and 90s and read this story. This is a great story. It is. So this is a perfect one to take. Now, I'm glad he actually told us what the story was because I, even though I had read it, I had actually forgotten exactly where the Sentinels came in. Yeah. And it's good to remind people because a lot of people now are only connected to the X-Men either through the X-Men 96 or they're connected to the cartoon version or they're connected to movies. Yeah. So this is a little different, but there's so much storyline. I'm glad he went through that. Now, okay, going back to Avatar because we are talking about Avatar. Avatar has two movies. They're big movies. Everybody saw them.

  • “We've talked about this on our show before...Marvel requests him. There is no ifs, ands, or buts. They will wait to get him. And so he is obviously doing justice to the source material.”

    Scott Larson @ ~60:00 — Confirms Zombie Yeti's exclusive relationship with Marvel for pinball art direction; validates artistic quality assurance

  • “I want to play this game. I can't wait for Expo. Is it October already? Can we go? Yeah, like now.”

    Josh Roop @ ~29:00 — Expresses eagerness to physically play X-Men at Pinball Expo; indicates high anticipation

    • Stern Pinballcompany
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    Pinball Expoevent
    Gold Wingsgame
    Deadpoolgame
    Foo Fightersgame
    Jurassic Park Home Editiongame
    Jim Leeperson
    Todd McFarlaneperson
    George Gomezperson
    Marty Haynesperson
  • ?

    community_signal: Jack Danger's design philosophy explicitly aims to 'make pinball weird again' and encourage risk-taking; X-Men represents fulfillment of stated creative goals

    high · Scott: 'Jack's always said we want to make pinball...make pinball weird again, right?...Yeah, bring back the odd, back to the '80s'

  • ?

    announcement: X-Men announced/revealed with full specification details including flipper configuration, Sentinel mechanics, and Danger Room feature set

    high · Episode centers on detailed X-Men playfield analysis with confirmed mechanical features across Pro/Premium/LE tiers

  • ?

    product_concern: Community response to X-Men reveal has been overwhelmingly positive across social media, with exceptional engagement compared to prior posts

    high · Scott: 'We had been bombarded with comments...this sparked more interaction than any other time that we posted saying, What do you think of this?'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Hosts indicate X-Men represents a turning point for pinball design after years of perceived industry stagnation

    high · Josh: 'Pinball has been on a downhill slope for a couple years now. Things have felt a little stale. And then this comes out'

    • 10:37
    But you're not giving the same sort of cultural impact. Yeah. So you have the first movie, which really, if you look at it from an analytical lens, was kind of a, hey, what these military people come into a foreign area and try to take resources or dominate them or what have you. It was very political at the time because the U.S. was involved in the Iraq War. Yeah. So there were certainly some of that. With the second one, you're kidding. It's a little different in that – go with me on this. I haven't seen it, so this is all new to me. Go for it. Okay. The second one was Star Trek IV and Titanic had a baby. Okay. I believe you. Because the second one is, hey, there's these big mammal things that they're trying to – wait, wait for it. kill and extract a small amount of essence so they can sell it for a lot of money sounds a lot like the first one that you think but now we are taking it to a new level of hey we're doing an environmental theme where now we're killing a uh you know a being for it and the thing is it's a sentient being because they have a connection with the navi so you have those two that are do it now visually it's pretty amazing it's awesome to see it in person and if you go to disney world there is the world of pandora yeah which is is really cool yeah um especially if you go at night because it's all lit up but you are right in that i don't know of any kid that has any avatar toys or any Avatar themed stuff in their room. I would argue that Bluey has more cultural impact than Avatar. Okay, but you're not going to make a Bluey pinball.
    12:44
    Okay, you shouldn't. Okay, you shouldn't make a Bluey pinball. Shouldn't we? Yes, we shouldn't. I want to put it to a poll. Bluey versus Avatar. Okay, Avatar is a better one. Avatar still looks cool. Avatar is still great. And I do like that the huge plus, they have a lot of assets that they can integrate. And the one thing that we know that Jersey Jack is excellent at, king at, is the immersion factor of their games.
    13:16
    So you think about Hobbit. What did Hobbit have over Lord of the Rings? Definitely assets. Absolutely. You have the feeling that you were actually in the movie. Wizard of Oz, same thing. And you have Guns N' Roses. Again, the most immersive experience in a pinball machine is the Guns N' Roses machine. You feel like you're at a concert.
    13:45
    And so this is actually – I would argue this is still a great theme for pinball. all right it's i wouldn't put it as the most impressive theme because we've all talked about the wish lists and i guarantee the wish list that you know people always talk about okay the dad rock ones okay let's do that okay let's do harry potter let's do that let's do you know other things movies you know top movies so a lot of people didn't really have avatar as their list but what is the downside of doing an avatar what's the downside i think so i think it lands in that category of like godzilla and even kind of x-men it's it's more of a it's maybe a meh theme but it has plenty of room to awe if the play field is done right or the right and so i i think there There's a lot of wiggle room there. And I think we're going to start seeing more of this. So this isn't like my understanding. This isn't Avatar specifically on the movies. It's just kind of an own standalone game, The Battle at Pandora, which is similar to like Godzilla. We're starting to see more and more and more of this where they're making their own storylines for these pinball machines instead of trying to follow like take Star Trek, for example. It kind of the missions are solely based on movie scenes from the three movies or the two movies. so yeah i just i think overall i don't know we'll see this next week it's next thursday and we might even get our hands on it even even just as soon right maybe maybe so so we'll we'll keep you in the loop on that one but so overall it sounds like you you think it's a decent theme and kind of let's wait and see what the because we've seen like what three or four shots of the playfield between the flippers the uh the the weird like through the playfield looking thing in the middle sinkhole yeah the sinkhole and then uh what else was there uh the locks yeah playfield and it did but it did look like okay maybe i'm wrong but on the quick teaser they did today did it look like a like a clear playfield with an under playfield i think so yeah that That what it looked like to me So that could be really cool Yeah it could Because the nice thing about play fields is for the most part look at any play field And if you take a pizza and slap it on the center of a play field, that whole area typically is empty. And it has art. It has inserts. It has stuff like that. but if you leverage that and make it clear and do almost like a, you know, a crawl under, like an under play field experience, that could be really interesting. I agree. And that's total speculation, but that's what it seemed like to me. Right. Yep. All right. Let's talk about something we have seen. So X-Men is officially revealed. So it's, it's X-Men, but are they calling it days of futures past? It's just called X-Men. Uncanny X-Men. Okay. so uncanny x-men has now revealed we know so okay i'm gonna i'm gonna give this preference before we get going on this scott someone told us a week or two ago about the offset flippers right and or hinted at it or hinted at it yes i i don't know so i've actually been kind of in a panic for this release and i mean that's not the right word but like really the last time offset flippers have been done was probably gold wings back in 86 that's before i was born um so it's one of those things where it's like it hasn't been done in 40 years so or almost 40 years was it a good concept back then is it a good concept now so it's it's like well crap like is this like we're just throwing crap throwing pickles at the wall to see what slides down i don't know so i was really concerned about seeing this reveal today uh just because like i had no clue what we were going to see and so i don't know how are you feeling going into it scott and i'm a little kind of distracted by sliding pickles on the wall i'm trying to figure that out trying to think it's billy mass and you remember they're doing the pickle races okay was that yeah yeah i was just thinking if steve was any where he calls and apologizes and he's like oh well thanks he crosses his name off people that i'm gonna kill yeah um okay the when i heard offset flippers what i and i envisioned was flippers that weren't aligned yeah so like a a flipper that would be you know i'm doing my hands but not like you know more like this yeah as opposed to the other right so the right side like an inch higher than the other which i thought would be a horrible idea well they did it with Super Mario Brothers. It wasn't too far off, but then you need to have Outlander. And it's a horrible game. That's why people only want it for the theme. It's terrible. It's not that terrible. I would own a Super Mario Brothers. Yeah, I don't. For five bucks. Okay. Maybe a little bit more. But still. Okay.
    18:57
    But, okay, guess what? Have you looked closely at Rush? Not lately, but I think we've had this discussion about it. Right. If you actually look at it, the shots are mainly to the right of center and the flippers are left of center. Yeah. And so it is already positioned to the side. So if you look at X-Men, really, it's almost like a smaller play field that has some extra stuff. You can really box this out and almost make a standard type play field. Yes, he has shortened it a little bit because if you look at where the flippers typically are, they're up a few centimeters.
    19:50
    And so that does make a difference. However, it looked good. Yes, it looked real good. It looked really good. And I was concerned because you never know what someone's going to do with their sophomore release.
    20:09
    You look at now, I always said what Jack did with the home version of Jurassic Park was impressive. Considering a small budget, it wasn't the same full featured as the Cornerstone, never was intended to be. But it's fun. It's a fun game. Very safe. It's a safe game. It's a fun game. With Foo Fighters, took some risks, kind of borrowed some elements that worked in other games, meshed them together, made his own version of it. And Foo Fighters is a solid game. Yeah, I own it. I enjoy it. It's a good game. It's a solid game. Yeah. And it would have been safer for him to go with a standard approach. yeah the fact that he felt you know jack's always said we want to make pinball bring you know make pinball weird again right yeah bring back the the odd back the 80s apparently right so i look at this and i'm thinking dang this looks a lot of fun yes it really does like when i first thought i'm like huh i'm trying to figure that out and especially the entrance to the danger room almost seems like an upper play field that is hidden away in the lower left corner so it's almost a disguised upper play field that's what i was thinking too yep so so when i see this it makes me think that gold wings had a baby with radical between the ball pass like radical and that that lower bottom like gold wings you're doing interesting stuff just zipping around the play field some of these shots i i had to watch this multiple times to be like what happened there wait yep rewind it 10 seconds i still don't understand that remind 10 seconds i i went from like anxiety panic whatever it is whatever you want to be like here's my here's my problem like pinball has been i'm i don't want to say on like a downhill slope maybe it has been it has been for a couple years now let's be honest um things have felt a little stale and so when you hear a risk being taken where it's offset flippers it's not very traditional what they're doing you're messing with the italian bottom which really hasn't been done in the last 40 years it makes you like oh crap like are we just are we just trying stuff now and then this comes out and you're like oh this feels new and unique but yet familiar because it takes some elements from games that do well that do great and so i just i want to flip this game this game looks so insanely cool to play and it just the one thing is is i don't know i i don't i i'm jumping all over the place because i'm like i'm thinking of the sentinel head and i'm like the sentinel head's really cool and and it's ball pass behind the head instead of just i thought it was like you bash the head and then like it's just space behind the head right kind of like on circus voltaire which has been yeah i mentioned back and forth with this but there's actual ball paths around the head like it goes up to ramps and it goes places instead of just like you're hitting a head and then there might be something back there no there is actual purpose to it so there's just this is so unique and so different i think people we've had nothing but positive so we posted this on all the socials today and i've had a hard time keeping up we had been bombarded with comments i was working so i'm glad you were able to do it but yeah it was interesting seeing you know when i had breaks and i could look at it seeing how how actually this this sparked more interaction than any other time that we posted saying what do you think of this yeah yep and all the all the reactions are pretty much the same it was xmas okay like it's it's something we recognize but it's not a theme we're dying for um you zombie arts awesome art but we've kind of seen it before so what are we getting from jack danger and everyone has just been like holy crap this looks absolutely insane to play the concern is is like if you've ever played gold wings it'll kick your butt right the offset flippers or can be a little mean it doesn't look like a simple game but you know what you can have a simple uh a an italian bottom layout that's super mean too i can think of a few board games that qualify yeah so i don't know i want to i want to play this game i can't wait for expo i think yeah pinball expo let's do this let's is it october already can we go yeah like now yeah it looks great the you know it's uh as we said i think the theme qualifies in the recognizable but solidly b theme yes like i it is definitely better than venom okay which is funny because like x-men was considered like a top tier license at one point in time right i mean it's kind of what helped propel marvel into the movie era like yeah they say blade is what started it but then like the x-men movies came right out after no it was it was the x-men movies and spider-man yep like like x you know the toby mcguire spider-man and the brian singer x-men movies that showed hey the technology is here like we can make a really good version of a comic book movie yep and really the avengers were never considered as popular as the x-men it was the x-men all the way but because they sold the x-men rights for actually cheap to uh fox and they basically said well let's do the avengers then and that was pretty much what they did now they made the Avengers the A-team after all their stories.
    26:11
    But really, the X-Men, it's still a great theme. But if you know what I mean by saying it's a solidly B-theme, I'm just saying that it is recognizable. Okay, A-themes. What are A-themes? Harry Potter. Harry Potter, yeah. Harry Potter is A-theme. Star Wars. Star Wars, A-theme.
    26:32
    Godzilla is a C-theme. I've said it. Godzilla is a C theme. Jurassic Park would be a B theme. People need to realize we're not ranking these themes. We're just going based off of marketability. If you took the top 25 franchises of all time, Harry Potter's up there. Star Wars is up there. Pokemon's up there. I mean, yeah, some of these might. Hello Kitty's up there. Yeah, that might not translate great to pinball. But what we're saying is if you go based off of the money and the gross profit, there's obviously themes that make more money than others. And Marvel's up there. So that's all I'm saying is that from the X-Men standpoint, it's a little – it's a smaller – it caters to a smaller audience. Yeah.
    27:11
    That being said, integrating this type of story and these shots, this is – this goes in the face of back on the good old head-to-head days with Ryan and Marty. I still remember something that Marty said that everybody talks about. I want different. I want different, but not that. Yeah, but not that. He always said that, right? I would say this qualifies as I want different. I want that. Yeah, because it looks really good. Yeah.
    27:46
    Yeah. What do you think about the entrance to the the danger room? Because that seems quite interesting. so it's i think it's very interesting so if you're following along with us you can go to sternpinball.com and look at the new x-men game there um but the way to get into uh so the danger room what scott's talking about is that left of center it's that we're calling it kind of like a mini play field but it's just that little mini flipper on the left side okay it's it's like where the balloon shot is in Wizard of Oz. Yes. And it's similar to the Foo Fighters upper play field. You've got a spinner shot, and you've got a ramp out. That ramp out brings you right to the left flipper with what's called Cerebro Ball Lock, which is, I assume, like a magnetic ball lock, which stops it right above the flipper to give you some time to breathe. Then it's going to drop it to your flipper so you can shoot. But to get into the danger room, if I remember correctly, it's on this right side kind of over where the ball uh the the shooter lane is you've got to shoot um kind of up into this area around that pop bumper kind of the pop bumpers in the same place as it is on godzilla similarly or jaws um so you're shooting that and it drops you down into this this danger room my question is is it so it says it's high risk so how i saw it is this is a shot that you shoot This seems like the katana shot to me, like a similar version. Yes. Like it seems like you shoot left to go over the storm decal. There's a quick hyper flex ramp ball path that takes you across the play field and then drops you down. So you're hitting the shot with velocity. Oh, you're correct. Yes. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. So it hits your shot with velocity, and therefore there is enough momentum to swing it around below the flipper like the hyperloop shot or the – whatever that – the hyperdrive shot in Star Wars or the hyperspace one. But it brings you with velocity, and it takes you up and then drops you onto the left flipper. Yeah. Now, there's danger because you go into that left flipper, and if you do not shoot out of there, you're drained. Yep. Like that's the only – and there's only one flipper there. There's not two.
    30:19
    Yeah, and it's – It's a mini flipper too. Jack has marketed it as high risk, high reward. So I wonder, is that area – like here's the problem. So if you put on your tournament cap, if this is really high points, what's not stopping you from just milking that area? But again, if it really is as high a risk as he's saying, you might not want to be in that area. Well, isn't that the point of the coder, though? The secret sauce of the coder is to be able to find, okay, where is the score balancing? Which is Wayson Chang. Yeah, Wayson Chang. And what else has Wayson done? uh was it wwe and we looked this up before crap did but yeah that's why i asked you because i forgot son of a gun i got put on the spot well i shouldn't come back later for it hold please uh wwe let me i'm i'm pin citing this right now we're doing this live we'll do it live um uh wayson chang so yeah so lonnie ropp wayson chang so wayson did the the software on jurassic park home edition right he did heavy metal monsters pro so the monster stuff he worked on deadpool um yeah so i mean these are solid games i i think so it looks like wayson works in tandem so it looks like probably home edition was his first which that's a solid solid code set i mean it's a little more bare but then it gets a home edition so like you can't really expect much from it yeah same with heavy metal it's it's but um and and monsters was more of dwight so i wondering if wasin game monsters is okay i i always said i give monsters a pass because yeah we kept saying hey the games are too hard And they like okay here this And they like again this is the hey we want different but not that
    32:12
    The rules were a little too stripped down. So, you know, it's the Goldilocks zone, trying to find the sweet spot. Yep, yep.
    32:21
    I saw a joke the other day where, you know, Baby Bear was asking, you know, Daddy Bear's like, someone's been in my bed. And Mommy's like, someone's been in my bed. And then the baby was like, how long have you two been sleeping in separate beds? Yeah. And it's like this whole like touching.
    32:36
    Let's move on. Okay. So, okay. So Waste and Chang's on code. Okay. Here's the thing. Okay. What's the first couple of things that popped out to you when you started watching this trailer? Besides like, it's hard to keep up.
    32:50
    It just looked like there's a lot of ball movement. He makes it look really smooth. Yes. However, it still looks a little bit like a breakfast if you're not nailing the shots. Yeah. And that's kind of how Deadpool is too.
    33:08
    Well, and the other thing too. Yeah. Deadpool's really hard if you don't nail those shots. Yeah. The first thing that popped out to me was like the literal sentinel between the head and the hands. It looks good. Yeah. And it looks way good. I find it interesting that the sentinel literally gives you the finger to stop the ball. I think it's really cool that the hand comes down and smashes the wire form the actual wire form does it do that on the pro as well no and the hands aren't really like the hands don't articulate on the pro right and I don't think they're in it on the pro like so the right one is right left one looks like it's like an art thing with the right yeah so someone can point out I think this is all ramps there's no orbits and I think they're right.
    33:58
    I don't fully understand the, uh, the beast layer. Um, the very target ball. Yeah. Very target captive ball thing. Do you just hit the target below and it becomes more like, again, this is, I mean, this is the magical world of pinball where you're, you're borrowing and integrating from other people. Right. Yeah. And, and so this is where you have, it looks a little bit like a repurposing of venom yeah kind of huh yeah i was kind of thinking the same thing yeah where venom has the carnage target and he's going back to i can't remember what the sanctuary shot is but this is almost using those uh those hyper um oh that the ball the hyper ball feeds that are on the wire forms yeah but he's using it a different way where you're shooting up to it and then hitting the very target yeah so the one thing that really stuck out to me too is that crazy eight ramp which i don't think's on the pro but it is on the premium le where you shoot it and it curves around but then it goes through another ramp and curves back around that's insane that's cool that's making the ball doing interesting things right okay there's one thing that bugs me and maybe it's just okay like i didn't do the research okay i've done some research okay i'm not gonna lie this last weekend i had covid and we were already planning on going camping so my wife we already had the trailer up the mountain everything so my wife's like why don't you just stay home away from the rest of us and we'll go camping and i was like sure so i had a lot of time on my hands this weekend i streamed i i read the this comic days of futures past issue 141 and 142 i watched like the first season of x-men the animated series i watched the movie days of futures past so i feel a little rehearsed on this okay okay back left wolverine's like in this like almost like ninja pose and there's like this is the fastball special isn't the fastball special like when colossus throws him is it more like a superman pose with his arms out in front of him his legs behind him kind of thing yeah yeah it is he i know it's stupid i know it's something i'm like but i'm just like is it the fastball special though no but could you imagine having wolverine with his arms his outstretched arms and claws and like flying like superman true true there's no way like that is a more typical wolverine pose right there but even like in the stern presents like the five minute thing like jack's like this is the fastball special and i was like is it though but yeah maybe maybe they're just doing a gymnastics pose yeah i know it's really stupid i know people people i can hear the eye rolling through the mic and through the headphones i apologize i just i wanted to if that's your one negative you take from all this like honestly you're you're knocking it out of the park right i you know i i just looked at that and i said ah that's pretty much what wolverine what pose wolverine is in and actually okay actually do you know what it looks more like it looks more like a saber-toothed pose it kind of does i know listen to our nerds hanging out So we have a podcast. Okay. Our nerd is on full display. We made our own skirts and we're wearing our own merchandise. I mean, come on.
    37:15
    And you know what? I am very happy and comfortable. Yeah. I'm comfortable in my own merchandise. Yes.
    37:22
    Okay. Final. Okay. I mean, obviously it's day one. We haven't played this. Yeah. All we have is their little quick reveal and we keep watching it, trying to figure out more on it. Yeah. let's do some breakdowns what do you think of gameplay just based off of what you've seen interested that's what i think i think it looks interested now if you're going to have a knock on john wick john wick is very much i've seen maybe not this before but i've seen a version of this before and and this was my thought on stranger things like i have attack from mars and I thought, well, I could get a Stranger Things. And I've been offered a Stranger Things a few times, like really nice versions of Stranger Things. And I've always passed because I thought, well, I still have Attack from Mars. Has a very similar feel. I don't know. Anytime you buy a game, you have to swap out a game. And I never found a game that I thought, this is different enough. So when I went from Spider-Man to Iron Man to Deadpool, That was my progression there. And I don't really plan on swapping Deadpool out anytime soon because I still like it. This is a game that has a potential of feeling like a Deadpool or swapping out a Deadpool because it looks tough. It has some interesting shots with velocity, but it also is taking it to a next level. I agree. As far as far as gameplay for me, I'm not sold on like I'm not buying just yet. i've got to get my hands on this game i want to play it absolutely i want to play it i'm definitely in the camp of like i'm excited to play with john wick yeah like i don't mind playing it was fun but even from first impressions i was like yeah like yeah like i'll play it right this i want to play like if i i see a lineup and i see this in the lineup i'm going straight to it because i want to see how this plays i think that's the thing too is a lot of people like i haven't seen anything like this in the last 40 years right so i want to know how this plays and i love that okay so gameplay obviously we're both excited maybe not sold on buying but definitely want to play okay but i i will point out i'm interested oh okay there are a lot of like i'm interested but i i still i'm under the camp play a game before you buy it definitely same because i i bought shrek sight unseen played it and i i immediately unboxed it and played it and i thought i have made a huge mistake because i was like this wasn't it wasn't fun from like the first plunge okay artwork zombie yeti how you feeling about it come on i this looks uh now when um when george gomez talks about this is a good throwback so i've talked about when i read comic books the four artists that that um really were the huge ones back then there was todd mcfarland todd mcfarland did spawn also did venom really he's the one who came up with the storyline and spider-man okay you have jim lee who still has some of the best anatomic versions and they look like they're like Greek gods and goddesses. It's great. Wills Portacio has a little more stylistic feel and Rob Liefeld. So those are the superstars. If you want to know what I'm talking about, go check those guys out. Okay? This feels like a Jim Lee type and if you want to pick one style to emulate, you want to pick Jim Lee. so so look at it this looks great uh hands down no no no questions asked this looks perfect for this theme here's what i'm gonna say about this okay so zombie yeti we've talked about this on our show before like he's been on here and like and he said like marvel requests him like there There is no ifs, ands, or buts. They will wait to get him. And so he is obviously doing justice to the source material, right? Yep. As I go back through, so just in Marvel stuff alone, we're talking Deadpool. We're talking Avengers Infinity Quest. We're talking Venom.
    41:55
    What else has Zombie Yeti done? Well, okay, so rule those off again. Sorry, I thought I heard my – oh, I think my cat was. trying to attack mine. So Venom, Avengers, Affinity Quest, and Deadpool. Is there another one he's done? I feel like there's more that he's done. I could be wrong. I apologize. We're going to go with that right now. Okay. At least three Marvel themes, right? Three Marvel themes. You could kind of lump in Ninja Turtles, even though it was based off the animated series. But it was a comic book, right? Okay. So we've got four solid comic book themes. and now we have X-Men. The thing that separates this, if you go and look at all those other ones,
    42:40
    Zombie Eddie has this very much, it's almost like with Deadpool, I'm going to take that as a great example. If you look at that play field, it's almost like a movie poster. You've got the fan of people in the movie, aka the game, and then you've got little snippets here and there of little shots from the movie or from the game. Oh, he did Guardians of the Galaxy, didn't he? No, that was Christopher Franchi. Oh, that's right. So it's very movie-esque, right? And I feel like that's how it's been kind of like with Venom. Venom was a little more segmented a little bit. And Avengers Infinity Quest, you look at that play field, it's almost like there's lanes. It's the best way to describe it because each shot is like one's Thor and one's Lex. It's very lanes. the thing about this the thing that i love about x-men that he's done it is like he literally took the comic book opened the pages and slapped it down on the play field almost like you're layering comic book over comic book yep and so you're seeing these different scenes and the story being illustrated on the play field and out of everything he's done comic book wise i think this is some of his best work like we can critique like shading and da da da da i'm not an artist i'm not gonna I'm not going to do that with you. But seriously, go back and look at his other stuff with Marvel. This is literally taking you into the comic books. And I think it just was done perfectly. I don't know what your thoughts. Yeah, and Chris, I love you. Just thinking about Guardians of the Galaxy, which is another comic book theme.
    44:20
    Obviously, that's a different style. So every artist tends to have their own style. So as we talked with Franchi, I did Beatles, did Guardians of the Galaxy.
    44:33
    And when you have that force. Yeah. When you have that, he has definitely more of a picture style approach. Okay. Yeah. When you have and I would argue Michael Bernard with Jaws and with Rush, it's a different style. Okay. And with Rush, it was like finding all the Easter eggs from all the Super Rush fans. And when you have Jaws, he's painting that picture. And the picture of having the water, it's different. You are 100% right on being able to say, let's just say I took my comic books and I cut up some pieces of the different comic books and then put them on the play field, laid them down. This is exactly what it is. Now, what's the casualty of that? The casualty and the criticism that people feel with zombie Yeti stuff is it feels very busy and it does. Yeah, this one definitely does. This one definitely is the busiest. Yes. So if that is a distraction, I can understand that. I would argue it works really well for this theme. Yes. It's a busy art on a busy game. Yeah. And it works. Yep. I agree We can't really talk about code we haven't seen much about that And honestly the rule Cards kind of weird and barren and we don't Fully understand what's going on And we couldn't figure out how to start a mode Yeah how do you start a mode on this I'm sure they'll fix that We didn't really talk about this I guess toys and mechs is separate What do you think about toys and mechs It's nice This is a new take on just a second i'm gonna cough this is a new take on the bash toy right and this is bash toy 2.0 where it comes out but you have the the you know the mouth opening which is which has been done similarly you know with the group mouth but having kind of that kick back when the mouth opens That's a new twist, and I do like that.
    46:48
    On the side with the broken ramp, very similar to Godzilla in that it has a ramp that gets disconnected with action. Now, Jack personally has done this in a different way with the Home Edition with the jump ramp.
    47:08
    So he's played with these states of change, and I do like that situation. um i don't really understand the very target much and is it just for for looking cool is there anything else associated with that so i'm not i'm not really sure what to say about that one um the hand the hand like okay i'm all about having a way of bringing you into the game The hand looks really cool. I agree. And, you know, I love the motion. The thing that I like most about Avengers Infinity Quest are the ball paths and the movement, the long trajectories of the ball moving around. Yeah. This has that like even more so So him to be able to have this rat nest of ball paths and having them intersect and incorporate that OK, I don't want this to sound bad. I want this to sound very complimentary.
    48:22
    I see elements of Deadpool in here. I see elements of Avengers Infinity Quest. Yeah, I see elements of Foo Fighters in here. And I see elements of, you know, I would say a Borg style bash toy that's taken to a different level. Yeah. I don't think that's offensive at all either. I would say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And especially if you can bring a new twist that elevates. And this seems to have elevated on every level on first glance. Yep. I agree. so and i'm i'm there with you when i when i saw it first honestly i think i think you could have got away with not having the head go up and out up and down from the play field if there's not much uh state change to it you know i'm saying like it's still a bash toy even though it's down um i think on the pro you'll be happy that the head's stagnant it still kicks back but you're not getting that up and down motion out the play field right um i really think the hands are cool I think if you're in the market for this I think you're just as happy with the Pro as you are Premium But you are taking You're getting 90% of the gameplay out of the Pro But that Extra 10% is really cool And that's what it should be But it should be That extra 10% It's interesting I'm trying to Figure out, it looks like you still go around the sentinel head it doesn't it's not like it passes over it correct so the way it works is if you shoot to the left it actually comes back around the back of his head and goes up this ramp down to the right if you shoot to the right it goes around the left and like kind of up through these paths on the left yeah so there there's no orbit or anything like it actually leads to more ramps that's why i'm like i joel engelberth was like no fear and i'm like yeah it's it's it's a lot of ramps it's can we get more ramps yeah but you know when like spooky like teased like 17 ramps like right five years ago on it was like tna or whatever right that's what's coming out 17 ramps i felt like jack took that to heart he's like you guys are joking about that but i'll do it yeah i'll do it one day we can do 18 we have the technology but no seriously okay overall i think i think this is a hit i think it has a potential right because everything is guarded with we're not sure how it plays but it has potential we're hearing it selling better on day one than the lot outside of jaws the last couple of releases it's doing it's doing fairly well so right well foo fighters did really well too i mean to jack's credit foo fighters was and for his initial effort and he He had, I would say, another solid B theme. Yeah. But it really does. Can you believe Foo Fighters was almost 15 months ago? Yeah. 16 months ago? Yeah. Crazy. That's wild.
    51:27
    Yeah. I would argue this. I was cautiously. I was concerned when they just said X-Men because we have an X-Men, right? Yeah. Like all these themes that – it seems like pinball is recycling some themes. X-Men has come out before.
    51:46
    Avatar has come out before. Guns N' Roses has come out before. And wait. Godzilla has technically come out before. Yeah. So finding different ways of doing an old story. And you know what? Goldeneye. James Bond has come out before. Right. but finding a way of incorporating the magneto stuff too without making it feel reductive was was really cool i agree so over overall we want to play yeah okay before we shut this down i want to do a quick review i teased this like a week or two ago i got the new pin snake I got it so I had nothing to do this weekend so I decided to clean pinball machines you decided to pull out your snake and start going around the play field exactly so I went to the hardest one I figured would be to clean would be World Cup Soccer right you got long orbits you've got ramps stacked on top of each other and like if I'm going to be testing one it's this one so I started just getting in there I did the left orbit first it reaches almost all the way to the pops it's shy maybe an inch or two um okay first off if you haven't seen the pin snake please go to pinsnake.com i think it's pinsnake.com just google pinsnake i promise you it's gonna pop up okay i'm gonna the dude is actually not taking any more orders right at the moment because he's trying to build up a supply it is for pinball Expo. It's Hensnake.com. Yes.
    53:22
    You can go there and you can order them, but you're not going to give them for a month and a half because he's trying to stockpile to take them to Expo.
    53:31
    Anywho, I took it around the World Cup play field. If you haven't seen this, it's almost like those fidget toys. The ones you disconnect and put back together. It literally has a snake head on it, but it's got Velcro on the sides and on the bottom.
    53:46
    It comes with a special rag and uh it's just like a uh what are they no no lint rag dust free i can't remember what you call it it's a microfiber it's a microfiber thank you yes good cramony people it's it's 10 15 at night and i've been up since five it's it's been a long day and i've had to deal with idiots and it's been a big idiot day hey i'm glad i'm sitting on a pinball podcast talking about the thing i love because you're talking you're talking to one of the idiots you're dealing with no no no you're not even close no anywho so the pin snake yep so it was really cool because here's the thing i don't mind cleaning until you get to the part where you it's like well i can't reach in there and i don't want to tear off ramps to clean and six inches you always you always scrape your finger like your knuckles i every time i try to clean back there i always come back with bloody knuckles yeah and so you're always like well this will do enough like i've got the ball pass out of the main way but like 100 plays later the ball paths are back and it's it's getting dirty again because you weren't able to get everything and so i always dread getting in behind everything um so i was i'm really i was really excited for this and so i i get it in and i start cleaning world cup soccer and i said yeah i was short a little bit but the even though i was a little bit short i could still reach with my bare hands so it wasn't a big deal i was able to get through the pop bumps area um it handled the ramps great i was nervous that there wouldn't be enough pressure to push down onto the playfield to clean it wasn't a problem it cleaned those spots without me having to because like you know when you're cleaning with a rag you want to apply pressure down so you're getting the grub off it did it well did you dust or did you like apply novus i did uh i did novus one i did not do novus two i just did this one that one right there so if you're looking on YouTube right now. It's the Blue Novus. The Blue Novus, not the Red Novus, and definitely not the Green Novus. I don't know if I've ever used Green Novus in my life. You should never use the Green Novus. Yeah, I don't know why they make the stuff. Like Red Spica, definitely. Because it's not just pinball specific. Yes. It's for autos, boats, planes, motorcycles, and most plastic services. Exactly. Flash pinball. So, I went through the whole play field. I went as if I could not touch. I tried to do everything with the snake um so obviously there's there's a couple limitations if you're going up a ramp so like in world cup soccer the ramp on the right goes underneath uh a plastic form and so it's kind of hard to get in there with a hand um if you're going up a ramp obviously the snake stays very parallel it doesn't flex up and down flex left right but it won't go up and down so like there's a little bit of that but honestly that's fine with me because if you had like flex up and down, then you couldn't put pressure. Yeah. You couldn't put pressure. And as soon as you did, it would pop up. So like, that's not, it's a pro and a con. Like, I don't know how you'd fix that problem, but it's more of a pro because then I don't have to push down.
    56:54
    Really it hit every spot. I think if you're looking, this is, I want to say it's 35 bucks. Is it only 35 bucks? Yeah. It's not expensive. It's 35 bucks and maybe a little bit of shipping. it is the must have tool for your kit if you don't like cleaning your pinball machine it's going to make it so much easier no one likes cleaning their pinball machines unless you're Nick Lane but it did fantastic I give it a 9 out of 10 like I said there's some limitations but overall for what you get from it the limitations aren't really there I can't clean a 180 wrapped okay well i'm gonna have to just get in there and do it anyway you know what i'm saying both sides so yeah so it's 35 bucks and a pin snake towel three pack is 10 bucks so and that would be my recommendation like i wish i would have got the three pack towel with it if you're gonna buy the pin snake because here's the thing like the towel's great but you're gonna clean one of your pinball machines and be like uh yeah i can flip this over and use it again but if you're like me you've got a collection of five or more right you're gonna be like fast you can clean it fast they get black quick like quick it shocked me how clean and here's the thing too so the the actual rag goes onto the side of the snake as well just not the belly but on the side i didn't realize how much dirt i was getting on this i pulled it out i was like holy crap like yeah like obviously your ball makes contact with the walls right and so i don't know why but i was like it's nice that you're you're not just cleaning it's it's a good solid motion for everything right like you're not just you're kind of doing double the work of like half the effort right so it if you don't have one of these I highly recommend them obviously they're on hold the dude's selling it he can't keep them in stock like they're obviously a good product if you want to see like an actual like usage Kerry Hardy did like a little five minute video on it right and he's not even sponsored by it and he was like I feel like I we're not sponsored by it either yeah true for 35 bucks we were sponsored yeah we it was sent as a demo yeah yeah it was sent as a demo i will give you that but okay um but yeah it's like we're not getting paid to do this review so there is that so okay check out pin snakes all right and we are looking forward to avatar people talk more about it too next time yeah uh so it was fun to actually start talking about it now just seeing our reveal but definitely a lot more coming up. I'm excited to see what they're bringing up because I have a feeling they have something special. So really quick question. We've only got like maybe five minutes. Okay. Because I got to get going. Do you think, because the rumor is right now, so American Pinball was going to unveil Cuphead before Expo, but because now JJP's revealed something, Stern's revealed something, Dutch Pinball's revealing, Alice, they don't want to get caught up in the... Another Texas Pinball 5. Yeah, but that was like seven, eight titles. Do you think it's wise for them to hold off? Yeah, they have to. I don't. I think they need to reveal now, and they need to have it at Expo so people can get hands on it. Okay, if they had it available, yes. If they had it available and ready, yes. but they they've always struggled with getting a game ready and play worthy and it's worse if you pre-reveal before you're ready and then people's first impression is just uh too hard to overcome and because it's highly suspected it's cuphead that is you have to make your impression in the first five minutes so if they are not ready and they're behind which they typically have been i would say this is not the time to reveal okay you have two big ones coming at you x-men feels like it's going to be a big hit yeah avatar has a potential of being a really big hit what was that except it could be a juggernaut it oh yeah yeah okay so scott says don't i say do we'll see what american does all right yeah but other than that yeah man i i'm stoked like between x-men and avatar yeah expo expo is going to be amazing if you have someone just messaged me today all the jjp tickets are sold out for the tour so yeah uh if you're going to expo you better you know okay seriously go and still try out because the jjp okay jjp's factory is fun it's a great experience we did the stern factory it is impressive just to see how the sausage is made at least the the part of the sausage they'll show us because it really does give you a new appreciation for how hard it really is to make a pinball machine well ken gave us a private tour of jjp yeah amazing yeah well and we couldn't make it because we were doing the the charity so that was very kind of ken to do that i agree well if you want to get a hold of us or actually first if you want to buy our swag because you've been looking at us for an hour now and you're like dang those are some nice and you're thinking you could make this look better which is yes or you want a pair of shoes i just got some shoes i got the vans uh silverball swag.com slash loser kid uh what was the thing the deal we made on like the last episode if you show up in some loser kid swag i don't know maybe i'll have to go back and let's give you a high five take a picture we'll figure out what it was yeah exactly um that reminds me though if you want a hat you're taking pre-orders from the hats it's pinned to the top of facebook go there submit a response um i will be doing that at the end of like the 27th is the deadline because i have to get these in get them ordered we have the gold we have the gold one the it's gold baby we also have are you making any more of these the these loser ones yeah anything we've offered in the past besides the black red the og yeah yeah the og we cannot get our hands on but anything else if you want it we can get it i have pictures okay yeah so if you want to get a hold of us we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com you can get a hold of us on facebook twitter x whatever instagram threads twitch youtube all at loser kid pinball we've made it easy just all in a little bundle like that uh i've totally lost track of what i was trying to say check us out on youtube please subscribe all that jazz um yeah give us our last thought scott okay and we may have more in-depth information on the games coming up here soon yes maybe even as soon us next week. Maybe.