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Episode 123 - Knapp Assemble!

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 38m·analyzed·Sep 7, 2020
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Analysis

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TL;DR

Eclectic Gamers analyzes Stern's Avengers Infinity Quest announcement with mixed reactions to design and theme choices.

Summary

Eclectic Gamers hosts Jason Knapp from Knapp Arcade to discuss the newly announced Avengers Infinity Quest pinball machine by Stern. The trio analyzes design differences between Pro/Premium/LE models, criticizes the sculpted Infinity Gauntlet toy as cheap-looking, praises Zombie Yeti artwork, and discusses Stern's pattern of recycling licensed themes from Data East rather than pursuing original IP.

Key Claims

  • Avengers Infinity Quest pricing has increased $100 across all models: Pro $61.99, Premium $77.99, LE $91.99

    high confidence · Dennis states official MSRP values directly in episode

  • The main gameplay difference between Pro and Premium/LE is the Dr. Strange ball lock mechanism; Premium/LE has a lifting spinning disc feeding into a subway with clear window, Pro has static version

    high confidence · Dennis provides detailed mechanical breakdown of all three tiers

  • Keith Elwin stated publicly that 'there will always be a spinner on the pro' models

    medium confidence · Tony references this as public statement by designer; unclear exact source

  • Of Stern's last five released games, only Stranger Things and the new Avengers are new licenses; others (Jurassic Park, Elvira, Star Wars, TMNT) were previously done by Data East or early Stern

    medium confidence · Jason claims this but doesn't provide exhaustive verification; conversation suggests this is analytical observation rather than confirmed fact

  • Stern previously released an Avengers pinball game in 2012 that was unsuccessful

    medium confidence · Dennis and Jason reference 2012 Avengers as existing game; Tony calls it 'not a successful game'

  • The Infinity Gauntlet sculpt on Premium/LE looks like a cheap hazmat suit glove with washed-out lights

    high confidence · Jason and Tony both criticize the sculpt; Jason compares it to hazmat glove

Notable Quotes

  • “I was the last person on earth to share the pictures of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and I got a poorly worded misspelled legal threat from Stern to take it down”

    Jason Knapp @ early in episode — References previous legal action against Knapp by Stern Pinball for sharing leaked TMNT images, establishing pattern of Stern enforcement

  • “It's the Walmart of themes right now”

    Tony @ mid-episode during theme discussion — Captures criticism that Avengers is a safe, commercially obvious choice rather than creative risk-taking

  • “I think this was a low effort license choice. It's and I like the Avengers as well.”

    Tony @ late in theme discussion — Summarizes consensus that while the theme is commercially viable, it represents creative conservatism

  • “It looks like it's a cheap adult novelty toy”

    Tony @ gauntlet discussion — Harsh but concise criticism of the Infinity Gauntlet sculpt quality

  • “The good news is we can figure out what the next current theme will be by looking at the rest of the Data East titles. It's probably going to be either Phantom of the Opera, Last Action Hero, or Lethal Weapon 3.”

    Dennis @ late in theme discussion — Suggests Stern will continue mining Data East catalog rather than pursuing original licensing

  • “No glove, no love? Exactly. Yeah, no. Just the entire sculpt for it is terrible.”

    Tony @ gauntlet discussion — Reinforces universal criticism of the gauntlet design among all three hosts

  • “I watched the trailer 10 times so I'm very well very well versed in the uh the nuances of the two”

    Jason Knapp @ early episode during game intro — Shows pre-release enthusiasm and detailed attention to trailer content before gameplay reveals

  • “I'd rather have the flat plastic than this”

    Dennis — Explicitly states Pro model's flat plastic superior to Premium/LE sculpted gauntlet

Entities

Jason KnapppersonDennispersonTonypersonKeith ElwinpersonRaymond DavidsonpersonJeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti)personJerry ThompsonpersonKen Haleperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern appears to be prioritizing commercial certainty (Avengers brand recognition) over design innovation; previous 2012 Avengers game failure not preventing re-release

    medium · Jason analysis frames decision as 'safe' and 'low effort'; Disney relationship enables easy licensing; theme selected for guaranteed sales rather than uniqueness

  • ?

    community_signal: Jason Knapp previously received cease-and-desist from Stern for sharing leaked TMNT pinball images; establishes pattern of aggressive IP enforcement against content creators

    high · Jason: 'got a poorly worded misspelled legal threat from Stern'; hosts joke about likelihood of similar enforcement; indicates Stern's defensive stance on leaked content

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Despite commercial appeal, hosts view Avengers as uninspired choice compared to creative risks like Stranger Things or black-box design heritage like Black Knight

    high · Tony: 'throwaway theme'; Jason: 'not really all that unique'; Dennis: 'it's the Walmart of themes right now'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Game design emphasizes wireform ramps on Premium/LE tier, likely resulting in slower play and longer shot times compared to plastic ramps on Pro model

    medium · Tony: 'wireforms slow games up far more than plastic ramps...premium LE...buy a lot of time to think about your next shot'; notes preference for speed in personal play

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Infinity Gauntlet sculpt criticized as cheap-looking, resembling hazmat suit glove with washed-out LED gems; all three hosts unanimously prefer flat plastic Pro version

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.294

0:00
This episode of the Eclectic Gamers Podcast is brought to you by the Roanoke Pinball Museum in Roanoke, Virginia. The Roanoke Pinball Museum is an interactive museum dedicated to the science and history of pinball. Their mission is to cultivate curiosity in science, art, and history through pinball, while preserving and honoring its role in American culture. The museum is open every day except Monday and houses over 65 machines with models ranging from 1932 to 2018. Roanoke Pinball Museum, your world under glass awaits.
0:30
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, September 6th. This is episode 123. I am Tony. And I am Dennis. And we have a guest, Tony. Once again, I think... Yes, we do. A three-peat. The Three-Pete, the critically acclaimed host of Knapp Arcade, which I have a link to in the show notes if you want to follow the arcade. Jason Knapp. Welcome, Jason. Hey, guys. I'm trying to figure out how I'm critically acclaimed. We have critically acclaimed you. You could probably say criticized, maybe. Oh, no, no. Take heart in knowing that you will most likely not receive any cease and desist for your appearance on this show.
1:25
Most likely. No promises. Yeah, that all happened after your last time you were on the show You upset a manufacturer With your deep dive reporting Oh yes, deep dive I was the last person on earth To share the pictures of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles And I got a poorly worded Misspelled legal threat From Stern to take it down, so I did See? You could have probably just said, hey dude, take that down I wasn't like, okay I don't know, here we are We're still talking about the more legalese version So it clearly generates content, at least for this show. Oh, sure. That's really my goal in anything in life, is to generate Eclectic Gamers discussion fodder. Well, it's a good goal to have. I mean, really, your own page. I would understand that you would have a motivation to continue to generate content for that. But with the pandemic and all this shutdown stuff, it's really just a sea of negativity, Jason. Oh, yeah. I haven't been to an arcade in months. It's so sad. Yeah. I haven't done that. But I didn't catch COVID, so I'm good. Oh, yeah. That's great.
@ gauntlet discussion
Stern Pinball
company
Avengers Infinity Questgame
Data Eastcompany
Zach Minneyperson
The Queengame
Roanoke Pinball Museumorganization
This Week in Pinballmedia
Deadpoolgame
Ghostbustersgame
Iron Maidengame
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
Jurassic Parkgame
Star Warsgame

high · Jason: 'looks like a hazmat suit glove'; Tony: 'cheap adult novelty toy'; Dennis: 'scope looked cheap'; consensus that modders will customize it

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Zombie Yeti art praised universally as strong across multiple games (Deadpool, Ghostbusters, Iron Maiden, TMNT, Avengers); playfield art consistently noted as exceptional though subject matter affects perception

    high · Dennis/Tony/Jason all praise Zombie Yeti's work; debate centers on subject matter preference (Deadpool vs Avengers) not quality; Iron Maiden cited as example of creative thematic playfield variations

  • ?

    community_signal: Raymond Davidson, top-tier competitive player, contributing to rules design for Avengers Infinity Quest alongside designer Keith Elwin

    high · Dennis lists Raymond Davidson as helping on rules; competitive player involvement in design process reflects industry trend

  • $

    market_signal: Across-the-board $100 price increase for Avengers Infinity Quest vs previous releases (Pro $61.99, Premium $77.99, LE $91.99)

    high · Dennis provides exact MSRP figures in detailed breakdown

  • ?

    product_strategy: Three-tier strategy with clear feature distribution: Pro emphasizes spinners and playfield flow; Premium/LE adds lifting disc, inverse ramps, upkicker mechanics; cosmetic gauntlet exclusive to Premium/LE

    high · Dennis provides comprehensive mechanical spec comparison; Jason and Tony evaluate gameplay implications of each feature

  • ?

    product_concern: LED implementation on Infinity Gauntlet gems appears under-engineered; plastic diffusion inadequate, visible bulbs detract from gem appearance

    high · Jason: 'gems are white blobs...can clearly make out LED bulbs behind gems...plastic needs to go'; Dennis notes flat Pro plastic with LEDs looks more natural; comparison to aftermarket Arabian Nights topper gems suggesting superior alternatives exist

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern demonstrates pattern of mining Data East license catalog rather than pursuing original or new IP; suggests next release will be Last Action Hero, Phantom of the Opera, or Lethal Weapon 3

    medium · Jason analysis: 'low-hanging fruit...already have relationship with Disney'; Dennis notes only 1 of last 5 games is new license (Stranger Things); prediction based on remaining Data East titles

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Avengers theme reuses 2012 Stern pinball release; previously unsuccessful game not being vaulted but re-released as new title

    medium · Jason: 'they already did an Avengers pin...2012'; Tony: 'not a successful game...no way they were revolting that turd'; suggests commercial appeal overrides creative freshness concerns

    • 3:01
    That's the bright side to look at. Yes. I've not gone anywhere or done anything since March like that at all. It's been nothing but the necessaries and working stuff. So it is for all of us. I'm finally taking vacation days for this week, but I'm not going anywhere. It's just I need to use vacation, and I'm tired of working. I went to Outer Banks, North Carolina a couple weeks ago And then I had to quarantine for 14 days Per the New Jersey state guidelines So I think I'm almost done actually I might be allowed out of quarantine Hopefully soon I wanted to go to Flippers down there There's a place called Flippers But it's like a convenience store That has just a ton of pinball games But I've had some heart issues and stuff like that I really can't mess around right now unfortunately Yeah Yeah, it makes it rough I'm on some medicine that suppresses my immune system, so I'm not supposed to go and get exposure. So it's like, okay, well, I didn't have a life anyway, so fine. Thanks. Thanks for that. You're making me sad. Yes. Thanks for removing my one happy point of my life. Thank you very much. Well, hey, Jason's got games. He can play at home. We're going to talk about those games later in the show, in fact. It's going to be super fun. All three of us do. All three of us have things now. Tony's got one. I saw it. Yep. The Queen. I've got the queen Did you see that thing yet?
    4:27
    Oh, like every day Well, I did want to note in our intro, Tony We actually had some feedback from the last episode We had feedback We did They emailed in, because you might recall, Tony That at the end of the final episode I should say prior episode We talked about the Like, if we go rambly Doing it at the end of the show if we wanted to just talk about random things at the end of the episode.
    4:55
    So one person named Sean L. wrote in and said, I, for one, like the intro talk, but I expect it depends on why you are listening. For those that just want the news, I can see that it might be annoying. For me, I listen while walking dog, driving, etc. So the intro talk is enjoyable. Keep talking about random things. So thank you, Sean, for telling us about your thoughts on our random things. Awesome. And the other one was from a Michael W. and he wrote to say, Hey guys, a third segment where you guys just casually talk would be cool. If you're so inclined, I wouldn't mind hearing more about mobile gaming. I'm in the ecosystem that you guys hate, but it works perfectly for me and my family. There would still have to be games that could potentially cross through Apple and Android, though, that would be good to hear about. Speaking of Apple, why didn't the Fortnite folks file suit against the console companies? Are those the same situation where the console companies take a cut where you used to use their pay system? Cheers, Mike. So thank you, Mike. And I'll tell you, I have a quick thought on the issue with the consoles and their share of money. I'm not super familiar with how they do it. I'm not sure if they get the same cut or they might allow them to go around and go online and do the money that way, too. So they might already have a workaround in place for that. That's not affecting them. That's a good point. I don't know enough to speculate beyond that Speaking of speculation I think we should go ahead and jump right in To pinball Because we've got a lot to talk about There's a lot really about Stern pinball in particular I'd say two of our three main news topics Are going to be in the realm of Stern And I don't think that's going to be surprising to Jason or to you Tony Because Avengers Infinity Quest Has been announced Da da da I do have a link in the show notes To the This Week in Pinball deep dive if you want to go to that to look at all sorts of photos and explanations of who's doing what. I'm going to give my really quick shallow dive summary here, which is Keith Elwin has done the design. He's also doing the rules primarily. Again, however, Raymond Davidson, a top-tier competitive player in his own right, is also helping on the rules on this game. Jeremy Packer, a.k.a. Zombie Yeti, is responsible for the artwork for this game. The sound design is being overseen by Jerry Thompson. The music was done by Ken Hale. Pricing, which we will go into to some degree, is up $100 across the board. So pros are now MSRP value $61.99, premium is $77.99, and LE is $91.99.
    7:32
    And my quick bullet point summary of the differences between the pro and the premium LEs is the premium LE model has a lifting spinning disc for the Dr. Strange shot that feeds into a subway, which has a clear window that you can see the balls in. That's virtual and does not lift as a spinning disc on the Pro model. There's a sculpted Infinity Gauntlet static toy in the back right. That's a flat plastic on the Pro. The Captain Marvel shot on the Premium LE is an inverse wireform ramp, and that's actually just a spinner shot on the Pro. And then the Prim Labs shot on the Premium LE is a vertical upkicker, which feeds into that ramp system that the Captain Marvel adds, whereas that is just a stand-up target on the Pro. The Pro model has a second spinner because of the Captain Marvel shot. So that's like the one thing it has that the Premium LE does not. So I think I've nutshelled that pretty well. Jason, you're our guest. I'll turn to you first. Just in terms of what you've seen, what you've thought of any of the trailers or static images of the game, what are your initial thoughts? uh yeah i mean while i was uh waiting for the rude podcast host i watched the trailer 10 times so i'm very well very well versed in the uh the nuances of the two i guess you know i would say for me i was trying to decide which i would rather get is the pro or the premium and then i i think i would go pro on this really you are the first person granted i've had a very limited audience to speak with, but you were the first person to actually lean pro because I really would have struggled with that. I would have struggled to choose the pro from what I've seen so far. It's close. I mean, I really do think that the Circus Voltaire-esque ball lock, you know, where it lifts up like the, what's that guy's name? The Ringmaster. Yeah, the Ringmaster, where it lifts up like the Ringmaster's head. That's pretty cool. but other than that i mean the upside down ramp i mean i guess there's more wire forms i mean if you look at the premium there's wire forms all over the place it's crazy it's wow that's pretty neat you know the ball launch is different i noticed when i was watching the the trailer over and over again when you launch it on the premium it comes all the way around down to wire form to the flippers when you launch it on the pro it just stops up top and drops into the pops i think but i thought that was kind of interesting difference between the two yeah i think there's a soft plunge skill shot going on there uh for the pro at least okay i'm not sure on the on the premium like a target to hit kind of like a ripley's sort of thing yeah so then i mean the other difference is the pim up kick i guess that there's something having to do with on the right side there when it's sort of like the uh star trek premium where it kicks the ball up like upside down back into the play field i thought it looked like that a little bit but it doesn't really do anything for the gameplay. Really, the main difference for the gameplay is that one ball lock, as far as I can tell. Maybe some of the ramps are different. I haven't seen anyone actually play it. I've only seen the trailers a bunch of times. Yeah, and we are, for those that don't know or are listening to this perhaps weeks and months later, we are recording this before the gameplay reveal streams have happened. So we really only have trailers to work off of. I mean, I think that Zombie Yeti, if you have Zombie Yeti art and Keith Elwin design on anything, it's going to be an amazing game. And they could design a serial killer pinball machine, and it would probably be pretty sweet with the Jeffrey Dahmer multiball. Yeah, well, that's not creepy at all. It doesn't feel like you've been thinking about that for a number of days or weeks. Well, I was trying to think of what the most horrible thing would possibly be, and I would probably still play it. And I was like, that's pretty horrible. Yeah, that's pretty awful. I could top it, but you wouldn't play what I'd suggest. You'd have to edit yourself out. Yeah, basically.
    11:34
    Tony. Well, sure, go ahead. Yeah, this is why I said before we move on to diving more into it, you really steered it, Jason, into the premium versus the pro in terms of the choice of what you'd lean to if you were to get one of these. Tony, I'm curious what your thoughts were between the two models, or three models, really. Honestly, I probably, like you were saying, This one I think would lean towards the premium But I don't know I'm not sold that there's anything That would require it It's not like It doesn't seem like it's like some of the other games Where there's a major major difference Other than the one shot And it's still in the game virtually So It's how important is that to you Is it worth the extra money Yeah So I don't really like the sculpt of the Infinity Gauntlet. Oh my gosh, that's on my list of things. Yeah, we're going to touch on that because I have a feeling we're probably unanimous about that. Okay.
    12:34
    So, similar, Tony, until I see gameplay, I don't know. I mean, I was someone who, when I initially saw Jurassic Park, really thought that I might miss having the cool T-Rex toy that flings the ball around. and then ultimately i at this point if you were to ask me if i was going to buy a jurassic park i'd say pro without a doubt i'd just go get the pro because i went premium it's so it's just well just because it's so fun i haven't played the premium though i've only just i thought i can live with after having experienced the pro it's so fun i know i can live with it and i'd be i'd be okay i'd be happy uh in this case uh yeah the so it's not actually the subway that really pushes me it's more what jason noted the wire forming that there's that the captain marvel shot being another ramp i think is far more interesting than a spinner i love a good spinner but modern spinners are not good but at least it has spinners they stole my spinners in the guardians on the pro there's no spinners we got ripped off and they were doing that for quite a while with uh with pro models it seems stirring was just taking the spinners out mostly because they don't do a whole lot because they're not usually worth a lot of points. Keith Allen, I believe he has stated publicly, there will always be a spinner on the pro. That's good. And in this case, the pro gets two. So if you're a super spinner fan, the pro is the way to go.
    13:57
    But I just thought that having that ramp shot looked more interesting to me than how the pro seems to feed the ball. I, like Jason, was not all that impressed by a vertical up kicker. So I could live without that. And the subway is cool. and seeing the spinning disc lift is cool.
    14:14
    I mean, I can live without any of it, really. But I just thought the ramp shots look more interesting to me than just the kind of single-level flowy style substitute that the pros got going on. But I wouldn't be surprised, especially given that these are all wireform ramps, that the pro is probably going to play quite a bit faster. And normally, when I get my hands on a game, I prefer it to have speed than to slow things up. And wire forms, as we know, slow games up far more than plastic efficient ramps do. It seems like that the premium LE, you buy a lot of time to think about your next shot while you're waiting for the ball to get back on these ramps. So, yeah, I don't know. Jason, back to you. So you want to move on. I didn't know if you want to talk about the art or where you want to go. You know, I think the theme, I think one of the things that I found interesting was just the selection of the theme. the licensing department at Stern took some really low-hanging fruit there because they already have a relationship with Disney, so they're like, okay, so if you look at the last five games that Stern has released, only one has been something that wasn't already done by Data East, I think, or in early Stern, because there's Jurassic Park, which was at Data East, Elvira, which has been done like three times, the Star Wars comic, which Star Wars was at Data East, Stranger Things is new. And then Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was Data East, and Avengers was Stern already, you know, Stern had already done that. Yeah, 2012, I think. Yeah, I mean, I think that was the safe, certainly a lack of creativity in terms of licensing, but, you know, having said that, I love the Avengers, and I like the theme, but I just think that it's not, you know, it's not really all that unique or anything like that. I mean, it's better than Guns N' Roses, at least, but it's not, you know, it's not something that is exactly knocking my socks off considering they already did an Avengers pin. What year was that? 2012, I think it was. That's not that long ago, really. No, it's not. Tony, what are your thoughts on the theme? Honestly, it seems like a throwaway theme to me. It's something they were able to get, something that was easy to get and has enough popularity that they can pretty much guarantee sales with it without it being anything special. it'll probably sell though that's the thing that's what I'm saying everyone knows Avengers everyone wants Avengers no one's going to be like ooh I hate the Avengers I wouldn't think so that's why it's going to sell and it's going to be huge from their perspective it makes sense it doesn't feel like something that was necessarily a go out no this is this big epic special thing this isn't the specialness of the third Elvira or the specialness of Black Knight or the attempting something new of Stranger Things theme-wise, it's an Avengers game. I mean, there's a whole bunch of Avengers stuff going on right now. Marvel's everywhere. This is literally like the Walmart of themes right now. The good news is we can figure out what the next current theme will be by looking at the rest of the Data East titles. It's probably going to be either Phantom of the Opera, Last Action Hero, or Lethal Weapon 3. That would be my guess. That's the next turn thing.
    17:44
    Given Mel Gibson, I'm not sure it'll be Lethal Weapon 3. It'll probably be Last Action Hero. Hey, don't forget, with the success of Hamilton, maybe Tommy is going to be back on the musical stage. That's very possible. The Who, they did the... Was it The Who? Yeah, yeah, that was the Who pin. Yeah, but that one's the one Daddy East did was actually based on the then-running Broadway musical, Not Off the Movie.
    18:11
    It's good trivia. Yes, I don't remember where I picked that up, but trust me, I'm sure I'm right. Yeah, no, I don't disagree. When I heard that it was Avengers, I was like, oh, this must be a home pin. That was going around. I kind of wondered. Well, because they did one. They've done one in the last decade, an Avengers. There's no way they were revolting that turd. No way.
    18:35
    No way. It's not a good game. I don't hate that as much as everyone else does. You do. You just don't know it. If you owned it, you would. I don't own it. I played it last summer in California at a boardwalk. And you hated it. No, I liked it. Actually, part of it was broken. It's no X-Men. You hated it.
    18:56
    uh no yeah it's not it's not a terrible game yes the black widow ramp was not that well designed but but since perfected on deadpool so uh you know advancements were made but my point is it wasn't a successful game so there's no reason to vault it so i just figured okay they did uh the pen style home-based star wars it's a brilliant theme adventures is a brilliant theme for targeting the home market. And then there wouldn't be any confusion if it was the Home Pin with this not just being like a reskin of the old 2012 Avengers. So given that, plus we're past the movies for Avengers now, that's just where I was. I think there was a Home Pin actually. There was a Marvel-themed Home Pin for Stern back, not on the current base.
    19:46
    There's a Spider-Man Home Edition. That's the layout. There was an Iron Man as well. There was some sort of, because I remember I was in like a game room store back in the day, and I saw like a dumbed down version of a Stern Avengers. I think it was. I have to look that up. Yeah, I think there was a home Transformers, a home Iron Man, a home Spider-Man, obviously, is the layout they keep kind of reusing over and over on those. They did that again for like the fourth time. Yes.
    20:19
    And so it's like, you know, it is what it is. So then when I heard from Zach Minney with flipping out Penval that this was not a home edition and it wasn't a vault, I knew it wouldn't be a vault. I was like, OK, well, given what it is, I think it was smart that they pulled the Deadpool thing, though, and did it comic and didn't base it off the films. Well, they don't have to pay anybody that way. Yes, that's why it's smart. But then they can put in two spinners and they don't have to be content that they don't have to pay the actors. Right, right. You don't have to worry about, oh, well, we didn't get the rights to the voice of Chris Pratt. So we'll just have the guy who did Samuel L. Jackson's voice on Jurassic Park reprise his role as the narrator.
    21:03
    Why would Nedry do this? That's the new one. It's a spike system. You can do it. Oh, I like to mock. So, OK, so, yeah, and like you, Jason, I totally agree that this I mean, this was a low effort license choice. It's and I like the Avengers as well. I mean, I've enjoyed the films. I don't I didn't I wasn't ever really into comics. So I didn't read the Avengers, but it definitely reeks of let's not try too hard and let's just revisit the well on on. And that's sort of been a thing lately. it seems like we're revisiting the well a lot on just reusing themes that worked in the past rather than but you know i can't go too far you noted stranger things it's a fair enough point to go and look last year and say well you know revisiting black knight which is only known by pinball people was definitely not in the wheelhouse that you would have expected from stern and that was true that is unique that's a steve richie influence for sure though yeah yeah i think they did it so he wouldn't quit that's my theory well he was burned out on doing licensed games well he keeps getting he keeps getting like the worst ones where there's no flexibility yeah the star wars where he has they have to pay for the assets so there's only room for like a rusty spoon as like a as a unique it's like you can't you can't even have a good plunge on that game they took away the good shooter lane yeah you plunge into the out lane it's sad uh okay so given all that I guess we should probably... We have to address the gauntlet first. Yes, yes. I wanted to talk about the look of the game. So you want to start with the gauntlet. You seem to not be a fan, Jason. Tell me of your non-fanness. I need to see it in person, because sometimes... Do you?
    22:56
    Sometimes things... Well, part of my criticism of it, I would like to see it in person before really sticking to it. But first of all, I think the gauntlet looks a little bit like... You ever see a hazmat suit? in the guy's glove.
    23:11
    It looks a little bit like a hazmat suit glove with some very washed out lights put on it. Why couldn't they put gems on there? They're supposed to be Infinity Stones. Why are they white? I mean, the one thing that would be my criticism of it was okay, if they need a lot of light for filming it for the trailer and the intro and things like that, maybe the gems aren't quite as washed out when you watch it in real life, like in person. that's a little bit like the projector on Stranger Things. It looks better in real life than it does when you try to film it. Having said that, they're still not gems. They're kind of just washed-out blobs. I think you do bring up a good point that I hadn't considered about photographing LEDs, and we've often seen that. But normally when we see LEDs photographed, like color LEDs, they look more garish. They seem more whatever color they're portraying. My problem with this is I think that the scope looked cheap, and I think the modders are going to have a field day with that. So I guess... I was going to say, that's screaming for a mod. So I think ultimately, as it bothers me, this would never make me want to own the premium.
    24:20
    I'd rather have the flat plastic than this. I agree. And the other thing is even though it may not look exactly like how it does in the photo I pretty sure based off of the photo that I will be able to clearly make out the LED bulbs behind the gems Oh, no. Because that's what I see. Like, the whiteness, that's the bulb part. So if it's that obvious, my initial thought is, why didn't you use a more opaque plastic for the gems? The plastic needs to go. There has to be a way to make the plastic look like actual gems. Yeah, so I just didn't. I will say this. I think that the bulb effect behind these gyms looks better than what I saw on the topper. I like the idea of having all the lights in the topper, though. That's cool. Yeah, I think it's a good idea.
    25:09
    Again, if it's trying to be glowing gyms, I think you need to try and diffuse that light more. When I look at the photo, they don't all look bad. I'm looking at the one on the premium on the This Week in Pinball site. The green gym looks okay to me. but the top ones don't. You ever see the topper for Totem, and it has the gems on top and the sword? No, I have not. Oh, there's an aftermarket topper for Tales of the Arabian Nights, and in the game it's sort of similar, where you have to collect the gems for the sword. It's sort of like the Infinity Gauntlet, now that I think about it. But there's a topper that's an aftermarket piece, and it has gems, and they light up, and I'm pretty sure they look better than what's coming out now, for the Stern topper. So they stole another thing from Toten for this game, is what you're saying. That's a good point. I hadn't really thought about that. I think that's Marvel's thing. I don't think Stern... Maybe Keith is like, you know what? I really like Tails. I want that lamp. I want that aftermarket topper. Well, you know, the spinner thing is sort of like the Toten lamp. Exactly. Yeah. That's my initial thought. I hear a lot of people say Ringmaster, and I get that, but only because on the premium, it lifts. but it doesn't on the... Otherwise, it's static. It doesn't have a magnet on it. So that's all lamp from Totem. I don't know what the official name of that spinning thing is but I think it goes back further in pinball history. Yeah, I'm pretty sure, too. I just call it a spinning disc.
    26:36
    Tony, what are your thoughts on the glove? The glove. The power glove. It's bad. It is bad, that's for sure. It looks like it's a cheap adult novelty toy is what it looks like. I don't know. Oh, dear. No glove, no love? Exactly.
    26:55
    Yeah, no. Just the entire sculpt for it is terrible. And like you were talking about, the gems are just, there is nothing impressive about that piece at all. It detracts completely from everything else in that whole area. The flat plastic of the Pro looks so much better. Yeah, and I'm scrolling. I'm looking at different photos of it. And the flat plastic with the LEDs and the gem plastic they went with, I think that looks good. I think the gems on that look perfectly good. And how you see the bulb with them is distorted by the plastic, and so it looks more natural. Mm-hmm.
    27:31
    Flat plastic for the win. What do they call that? Butyrate or something? B-U-T-Y-R-A-T-E. I don't know how to pronounce that. That's what the material is for the flat plastic? That's what Stern now uses as the word to describe any time they use a flat plastic. Oh. Thanos Infinity Gauntlet Butyrate with lights Whereas Janice would say It's a flat plastic with bulbs Yours doesn't sound as fancy I know and that's why I don't rate that Butyrate is a Four carbon Fatty acid Okay Which is It's a traditional name for a Are you googling this? Yeah I am I believe it's pronounced It's biturate is the correct pronunciation.
    28:20
    Biturate. Should I take that with or without fish oil? Yeah. I don't know. Okay. All right. So we are all in agreement we don't care for the premium LE glove. What about Zombie Yeti's art package overall, Jason? What do you think of that? Oh, it's fantastic. Is it, though? I think so. Yeah, I agree. I like anything.
    28:40
    You're trying to trick me. It's so obvious. I almost feel silly having a discussion about that. At least I'm not a yes man. I'd be like, you know what? You're right. Is it his best pinball art page? It depends on the subject matter. I think everything he draws is really good. I just think it depends on whether you like the subject matter or not. You know, that's basically the way it goes. Well, I'm making you pick, Jason. If you had to write this moment, I know it can change depending on mood. if you were to pick just playfield art, what zombie yeti playfield art is your favorite? So what do we have? We have Ghostbusters, Deadpool, Iron Maiden. Or did he do Deadpool? He did Deadpool, right? Yeah, he did Deadpool. He did. You have Iron Maiden, you have Primus, and you have Turtles in this. Ooh, the Turtles is pretty good. I think I like this better than Turtles, though. Just because I think I like the subject matter a little bit better. I'd see myself as more of an Avengers guy than a Turtles guy my wife was like what they did Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles so I was like I guess I'm not getting that one so what's your pick? I think so I like the Deadpool art I think that the actual Deadpool dude peeling off his face on the one back glass is what puts it behind Avengers for me yeah but I said only Playfield That's true, you did say Playfield I mean, they're both good I like them both Yes, but I said pick one I even like the premium Deadpool With the shark that no one likes I think him fighting a giant Megalodon is cool I just didn't like the color So you're not picking, well thanks for nothing Jason If they all were good I don't know I know, I know, that's why in a way it's pointless Avengers Going with Avengers is his best Tony, what Playfield would you pick? I'd probably go Deadpool. That historically has been my pick, and I think I still would say that. I'd actually do Ghostbusters a second, and then probably this third. Yeah, I'm pretty comfortable with that. But it's all good. I mean, I look back and even though the theme does nothing for me, what he did with the sand and stuff on Iron Maiden I think is so cool with how that play field looks. The three different ones on Iron Maiden, how they all have kind of themes to them, like there's an Egyptian one, and a fighter pilot one. The fact that there's actual specific themes to each one is amazingly cool. I like that a lot. And that's actually, I guess, again, it wouldn't affect my buying decision at all, but that I suppose is a minor gripe of mine on this, is you basically have the Premium and LE are the same art package. The only difference is on the side art and stuff is some of the blue colors were swapped for yellows. but it's still the same Thanos theme personally I if I were to pick the side cabinet trans light art package I would go with the LE I think the yellow powder coat looks good I think that's too much yellow no there's no such thing I think I was just about to say I think the powder coat's a little much on that I look at it and I go it reminds me of Plotchman's which is my favorite mustard oh that's interesting. I never heard of Plotchman's mustard. I thought it was too much. Plotchman's is the cool one in the weird shaped bottle. I figured you was a Grey Poupon sort of guy. You're very classy.
    32:16
    Excuse me, sir. I never buy premiums in L.E.'s, but I buy Grey Poupon. That's premium or L.E. mustard.
    32:26
    This is my limited edition mustard topper. Mustard topping. one of 500 autographed lids for your mustard all right so you think the yellow is too much so what would you pick premium or pro on the art uh caps and translate i don't know i i i honestly i was looking more at the mechs than the art for the premium and pro so i don't buy off of art ever so i don't blame you but yeah i didn't really look at the art too closely between the two of them i didn't notice where i was like i know that the pro has no the premium has thanos on the side Thanos, Thanos, whatever, on the side. And the pro has a different art on the side. Neither one, I wasn't like, ew or wow for either one. It was just, they're both good. Tony, did you have a preference?
    33:15
    Yeah, I prefer the premium art. I mean, honestly, though, I could see, I kind of like the pro trans light better. But the side arts, but it's real close. But the side art, I prefer the premium side art. Yeah, I kind of like focused side art where it's focused around one character rather than the montage thing. Yeah. We get a lot of montage things in pinball. But that LE is just, it's too yellow. I mean, it's not just the powder coat because they went and they changed the side art to yellow and red instead of the yellow and pink. That's right. It looks awesome. Which makes it even brighter.
    33:54
    And Thanos' face is more washed out and the glove is more washed out. Washed out with power. Yeah, okay.
    34:04
    I think it's just too much. And I like yellow. I don't mind yellow. I just think that it's too uniform. That would be my critique of the Ellie. I think there needs to be more contrast. Yes, too perfect.
    34:19
    Difficult to achieve, but yet somehow possible. Price. Hey, Jason, you got any thoughts on Price? Oh, wait. I do. I researched it because I was sitting here waiting for this to start. Did you know, Dennis and Tony, that the price of lumber has increased 160% since April, according to the National Home Builders Association? I did not know that. That doesn't surprise me. So that's why, Stern, I think, besides the fact that they just raise prices whenever they can, I think that there was actually somewhat of a need in terms of raw materials to raise prices. I could see the price of the wood for the cabinet and the playfield You know, that $100 probably is a big chunk of that It would be my guess I like your guess, Jason But I'm going to disagree with it You're just going to say they raised prices anyways No, no, well, I mean, they did According to Zach, and for those that don't know I usually record the Pinball Show on the same day I do Eclectic Gamers And I usually record it first So that's where this is coming from You saved the best for last Yes, I do. And from that, he had noted that the last Stern price increase was January, which I believe was $100 as well. But that's not why I disagree with your theory, Jason. The reason I disagree is this price increase is only on Avengers. It does not impact Turtles or any of the other games. It does starting January 1st, I heard it's retroactive. You're correct, and that's what you mentioned, is that as of the start of 2021, all of the on-the-line games are going to go up to the same price point. But that they have not done so yet does not make me think that it's driven by lumber.
    36:03
    Because if it's, holy crap, we're not making our profit margins because lumber just spiked in price, then they should have raised the price of turtles, too, at least turtles. maybe or else they're just delaying it by a couple months to avoid pissing people off even more than they probably already will be i mean they could but again that pricing you mentioned was like march or so turtles was only what may so why didn't we see the price on turtles i don't know i don't get it yeah i don't know it may be a motivator um and i would agree that that keeping that price flat for the time being would probably help keep some people calm but i i just i'm not I think Stern is at the point where they want to do incremental price increases on an annual basis at least, and I actually think that's smart.
    36:51
    I think it's better to do that than to wait a few years and then say, okay, we're increasing prices by 500. I think you get more of that. Yeah, I get little drips and drabs, death by 1,000 cuts rather than one massive blow. Yeah, and this is just from my own professional experience of trying the different models of things like on dues payments and stuff, keeping them flat versus – and it's weird. It's like the incremental approach is annoying. People will whine about it, but it's easy to budget. It doesn't people don't. Whereas in other instances, I've seen, oh, great, you've now increased us by 12 percent. We're not going to participate because that's just a huge spike. Yeah. I mean, the question I find, though, is like, at what point does it start to price people out? Because I know my day job is in the auto industry and I've been saying for a couple of years now, because the way the auto industry works, all the companies are public. There's no growth in units particularly because, you know, anyone who wants a car has a car, basically. So you're just stealing market share from your competitors. So the only way to show growth as a public entity is to raise prices. So automakers raise prices, raise prices, raise prices. And at some point, the price inflation of automobiles has so significantly outpaced wage inflation that it becomes unsustainable. And I just wonder, in the pinball situation as well, at what point, you know, is a premium game going to be $8,000 pretty soon? That's crazy. You know, I mean, we're getting close to there on MSRP. No, you're right. You're right. In fact, I know Twip had projected, based off of the MSRP, that the street price now for the pros of this game are probably going to be in the $5,800 to $6,000 range. As a case in point I bought, new in box My Star Trek Pro For under $4,800 in 2015 You bought it new in box for $4,800? Yep I hate you, I paid $5,000 You should hate me So you think about that It has now been just under Because I bought it late in the year It has been just under 5 years Since I bought Star Trek And their pricing has gone up $1,000 That's crazy And that's not inflation no because inflation has been very low for the last five years so no there's no one there you know it's it's weird i mean i don't interest rates have been low so so low for so long and you know economics just dictates that theoretically that would increase inflation but it really certainly not wage inflation that's for sure yeah and no it's it i think it's an excellent point in fact when i bought that game i remember at the time my policy was i will never spend more than $5,000 for a pinball machine. That was my rule. Now, I have changed career-wise since then. I now make significantly more money than I did in 2015. Oh, excuse us. So my standards have changed. Well, how math factors makes a difference. I'm sure for Tony, things two years ago versus what he can do now thanks to promotions is significant. Yeah. Now I actually reduce my debt instead of continually increase my debt. And at this rate, 40 or 50 years from now, I might have no debt. I mean, the only reason I bought TNA was because I quit jobs and I got a vacation payout. That's how I justified it. It's like, oh, I have free money.
    40:12
    That's pretty good. I'd take that. Yeah. I kind of wish I had the money back and then I could buy Avengers. is that a game that you would actually be interested in purchasing i'd want to try it first it's tough yeah it looks good i've wanted an elwynn i really was tempted by jurassic park really was the only thing was i could easily play it on location so i didn't you know that really what's that exactly what is that so sad the locations are open now but i know i know there i have a lot of good friends that have uh arcades in new jersey that are open but I just personally can't do it because of my health concerns. So, you know, I feel bad for them. I mean, it's just I went around and tried to buy T-shirts and everything else from every arcade just as a show of support. Any arcade. So I have like an entire wardrobe of T-shirts from like Texas arcades and like all this stuff at the time the pandemic started. It's because I felt bad for them. But I mean, I can't personally do it right now. I just can't. And that was my lifestyle. I would do that all the time with my kids. Tony, I know your lifestyle isn't going and buying a bunch of stern new-in-box pinball machines, but what are your thoughts on the price increase? I'm not surprised. I'm disappointed to see two price increases in a year. Yeah. That's a good point. At least do it on a calendar year. Right. To have two in this year is just, I don't know. Especially when there's been, would you say there's been fewer games this year? I would think so. Definitely fewer made and fewer announced. Yeah, fewer announced, though. So basically, the gap between price increases in terms of game releases is even less than normal, I would think. Hmm. That's an interesting point, yeah. I mean, at this point, at what point are we going to get where we're just going to see a price increase with every new game or every other new game?
    42:08
    I mean, we may be at that point. It started to feel that way to me with some of the other manufacturers. But it all varies. I mean, Hot Wheels did see a slight decrease. There is less to it than there were the predecessor games. I was going to say, that's not saying a whole lot. Yeah, I know. I like that. I mean, I think some manufacturers are recognizing, especially those that started at the higher dollar point. So same with Wonka stripping a mech and actually offering their SE at an affordable rate. You know that Hot Wheels is, I mean, I think it's an amazing game, but you know that it's stripped. When I'm watching the stream, I'm like, hey, I talked to my sixth grader. I'm like, hey, look at this new game. He's like, wow, that looks really empty.
    42:46
    My sixth grader said that. The middle school burn. So if a sixth grader going into sixth grade, too, is noticing that a game doesn't have a lot of stuff, I guess that it's probably the case. But I still think that game is cool. I like the theme. I like the idea of collecting cards. I like the Hot Wheels game.
    43:08
    Well, we'll just have to wait and see if it does well for them. I think they got really screwed on the pandemic thing, sabotaging their reveal, and the fact that they were marketing it from operators.
    43:20
    Operators are not picking up games right now. I think it'll still be by far their number one selling game. Hmm. Interesting. I mean, when you compare it to Oktoberfest, it didn't sell any. Well, yes, that's a good point. And then, what else is there? Houdini? Yeah, Houdini. I think Hot Wheels will outsell Houdini. Okay. Actually, I don't disagree. The only reason I hedge is I think sales are just down a lot because of the pandemic. That's a good point.
    43:46
    I think it's a pretty low bar to hurdle, though. I don't think their sales were off the wall. No, from reports I've heard, neither of their games sold 1,000 units. Oh, wow.
    43:57
    My spies are everywhere. Why do you want an Oktoberfest? The theme is so dumb, but you never see it anymore. It's so unusual. There's a reason.
    44:08
    Who does it? TurboGrafx streams Oktoberfest, and it's fun to watch. That's just because it streams good. Don't be tricked by this.
    44:16
    It's not fun to play. Yeah, I don't know. I've only played it a couple times. Maybe this is a sign. Every place I played it at, it left. That's probably not a good sign. It was at Penskate. Penn Skate, there was a skate park that had one, and they had one very briefly at Sunshine Laundromat, and they had a lot of mechanical issues, I think. So it left. And then, oh, they had one at the Pinball Gallery, too. That was the third place. Both Pennsylvania arcades. So I played at three different places, and I don't think that any of those three still have it. So it's probably not a good sign. But you still won it. I don't know. I wouldn't mind. I'd have to get a really good deal on it. I think that's part of the appeal. It would be packed with mechs and stuff, and it probably would have terrible resale value. Well, you know, if you want a lot of stuff in a game, there's always Thunderbirds. Oh, no. That art is so creepy.
    45:16
    At least make it Team America. We all wish that. That's screaming for a re-theme to a Team America. Someone's got to grab one of those for like $3,000 on resale value. I hear you can do it. It'd be like America. F yeah.
    45:35
    Well, is there anything to cover on Avengers that we haven't yet before we move to the next topic? One thing I might've missed it because I'm sure people heard my dog went nuts because our backyard was invaded. So I had to go take care of it.
    45:47
    But did we, well, yeah, it was invaded by a, by a plastic bag blown in by the wind. Oh, not like Dennis's house was invaded. No, no, no. She just started going. My dog rarely ever barks. I love home invasion jokes. It's a little weird.
    46:06
    Zombie Yeti's done the last two? Yes. Art packages? Yes. Because Turtles and Avengers both were. Johnny Crap was Jurassic. That was the one before those two, right?
    46:21
    Oh, well, Stranger Things was. Stranger Things. Oh, Stranger Things. Right, right, right. Who was Stranger Things? I don't remember. I don't even know.
    46:31
    Do you want to know? I'm looking. I have. Now we're going to force Dennis to cut out all this dead air.
    46:41
    Okay, so Bob Stedlick. Hmm. I don't know. Who did the Star Wars Pro Premium and Limited Edition and the LE Game of Thrones.
    46:55
    Hmm. Okay. So they put Bob on when the license restrictions are really high. That's basically what it sounds like, yeah. But yeah, you're right. Yeah, yet he's done the last two. I just thought it was interesting that he'd done the last two back like that. Well, I don't think this was secret, and I apologize to Jeremy if he meant it to be, but he didn't tell me it was. But I had been communicating with him, and he had mentioned that there was a project with Stern that sort of fell into his lap. I assume it was meant to be for another artist, and I'm guessing that's Avengers, but it may have been Turtles. But basically, he ended up accepting the two projects back to back because there was a need for someone to step in and do the art on one of them. Well, a lot of those artists that Stern uses do concert posters and promotions, too, and there's really not any concerts right now. It makes a lot of sense. It makes the pandemic's been tough on a lot of people. Well, if you want something to hit your wallet, let's talk about the Elvira topper.
    47:58
    That's right, Elvira House of Horrors. There was a distributor that announced that they showed some images of the topper and said that it's $1,000. That was not a placeholder price and that it was limited to 200 units. $1,000? $1,000 or $990. You got a real unfiltered reaction to that because I hadn't heard that yet. Well, 999. Let's put it that way. I was pissed off about the Jurassic Park hidden mode. This is even worse. Okay. Well, from what I understand from Zach Minney, the price that might – it's not necessarily guaranteed to be the $999, but that is what has been initially indicated. but since the topper is not officially released yet that price could change uh he did indicate that it is not being treated like the r2d2 topper it not technically an le topper so if stern stern might only choose to make 200 units of it but it not officially capped at 200 So they would have the ability to make more if they wanted to. If more than 200 people wanted to spend $1,000 on a topper? Yes. Does it come with a lock of Elvira's real hair? I was going to say that... I don't know what it comes with. I've seen some... It's a really special topper at that price. I've seen some people indicate that maybe it has a screen integrated into it in some way. I'm not. Pinball Paparazzi shared a picture of it, and it looks like the front opens up, and there's, like, it's the, you know, it's like the graves when it's not transformed. And then it opens up, and it looks to me like it's just a picture of, like, Elvira, like, long and narrow picture of her. But it has to be something cooler than that for $1,000. No, I mean I don't know My baseline thoughts are In terms of whatever it's got going on And it isn't going to be Quote unquote worth $1,000 But that said Stern has been raising their topper prices We didn't talk about the topper really much on Avengers But it's set to be $600 And purportedly it will also be having a mode That it unlocks just like the goat mode With Jurassic Park So they're doing the software I hate DLC They're doing the DLC model with that. I don't know that this has that. I mean, when they came out, I'm going to rant. Because when they came out with the Jurassic Park topper, so I got a Jurassic Park premium, and I paid mid-7,000, mid-to-high 7,000 for it. So $7,000 plus is not enough to get all the modes in a game. You have to try to squeeze another $500 out of me to try to play all the modes on the game that I just spent approaching $8,000 on, now that they keep raising prices? Well, Jason, that's an interesting point, but I would say you got everything that you paid for in the Matrix.
    51:00
    I knew it. That's right. You're in cahoots with them. My favorite hoots are the cahoots. It's just insulting. I hate the DLC model in video games, too. Most gamers do. But we still pay for it.
    51:16
    I don't know. I'm much less likely to play a game that has DLC than one that doesn't. Well, and here, the difference to me is in video games is I have no problems paying for DLC that is, you know, story continuations or new things that you can do after the story. Or like with Fallout where they add in whole side quests that take you to whole new areas. I'm playing Baldur's Gate again right now. and Baldur's Gate has Baldur's Gate, and then at least two expansion packs after that are continuations of the story. So I guess it's a fine line between what's a new game and what was stuff that was hidden in there the whole time that they're just trying to gouge you for. Like, buying a fighting game and having to pay for individual fighters in the game is absurd. I hate that. I agree with that.
    52:03
    That's what I mean. I'm against stuff like that, or, hey, here's this weapon, and, oh, but you have to buy it. It's in the game, but you have to buy it to be able to use it, is different to me than having big major story additions.
    52:20
    And quite frankly, pinball doesn't need DLC, period. I mean, I get what they're trying to do. It's a business they're trying to make a profit. If they can do it, and people are going to still buy pinball machines, I'd probably do it too. But I don't have to like it. But would you actually spend the time and effort to create code and to create a mode that will only work for 200 people who have spent the extra to get the special don't-you-feel-fancy topper? I wonder how long it took them to create the topper and the mode, like on an hourly basis, what they're actually profiting from that. Is it worth it? Like, if you're right, if they only sell 200 toppers, is that negative sentiment that it generates with a lot of people worth whatever meager additional revenue they generate? I don't know.
    53:14
    Yeah, it's an interesting mix of stuff. Judging from just my opinion, my assessment of what the mode was for Jurassic Park, I do not think there's a significant amount of programming time that's going into that. No, probably. So if it's going to be like that, where it's just like a progressive jackpot style hurry up or multi-ball mode for Avengers, that is going to be behind this topper paywall. And that's what they're going to use to justify that the topper is going to be $600 rather than $400 because you get software with it. Okay. I mean, it is what it is. I have some issues from like a scoring perspective. Like, you know, when it comes to high score competitions, are you at a disadvantage against someone who owns the topper? You'd have to turn it off. Yeah. So, but I mean, exactly. There are ways around. It's like Mustang. That boat exists in Mustang. We have a Mustang at my office, which I'll probably never go back to because they're closing it. But we have a Mustang and I always like wait until it's like M-U-S-T-A-N. I'm like, oh, maybe I'll try for a high score. Because the free multi ball is almost ready. I mean, from Stern's perspective, here's the thing.
    54:26
    And even from the purchasing perspective. So I'm not a big topper person, so bear that in mind. But my thinking is, obviously, Stern's got investors. Stern needs to make money. People are buying these, so it's working. And if you buy them, even though I would say, like, from a feature perspective, this is a waste of money. Like, whatever a virus topper does, it's not going to do $1,000 worth of stuff. the fact that even non-limited toppers seem to be selling more used than they are new means that they are appreciating in value so i can't even say it's a sucker buy because you can get your money back if you want to get out of the topper well the jurassic one sold out fast it did it sold out very fast and we don't know if and when they're going to make more of them so there's just there's this demand and now why is it the way that they're doing this versus maybe like upping their quantity at a lower rate. Personally, and I don't know this is true, but personally, I think Stern hates making toppers. They won't outsource it for whatever reason. They're manufacturing them internally, and they're not very good at it. Like, they're really slow about building toppers. I couldn't believe that they revealed the Avengers topper. Usually it's like three years after the game. Well, but who knows when you're going to get it? Because look at how long ago, you know they didn't have to jump through a ton of approvals on the Black Knight topper, and it was only just recently that they finally got them. Those are all sold out, too. That thing's actually pretty cool. It is cool, but it was $450, so you know what they can make money at. That for $450 is way cooler than whatever they're going to do for a virus for $1,000. But if their plan is, we always want to, you know, a virus purported $200 aside, like if their normal thing is, we always want to make somewhere between $500 and $1,000 toppers, and we just want to make as much money as possible at it, then obviously the only solution is to up how much they cost to set, how much they sell them at without upping how much it costs to make them. So that's where you start doing DLC stuff because your programmers are on salary. It's not costing you any more money to have them make a new mode rather than go back and fix Ghostbusters. So that's what you do. The bottom line is it's tough to blame Stern. If they come out with a Jurassic Park DLC topper and it sells out instantly, like if I was selling, if I could sell anything and it would sell out instantly, I'd do it. Like, why wouldn't you do it? No one's buying, so I'm not. But from a hobbyist perspective, here's where I think there's a legitimate complaint. And that toppers historically were just accessories that people could have. And now at least official Stern toppers feel like they're designed for whales. People that have way more money, and it's just another way to flex and to show that you're better, that your wallet's better, and thus you're a better hobbyist to get the sort of like, if you're a completionist now, is this going to cost an obscene amount of money to invest into all this stuff to get all of these added features? And I totally understand why that's off. But yeah, you could get your money back if you sell it, but you still have to have the money to get in on it in the first place. And you really, I think you have to sit and really ask yourself about a topper. We're talking, if this price is right, six Elvira toppers equals a pro. I mean think about that Not for long though That's true Thankfully that's true So that's the aspect of that I had someone email Into me about the Thing about Stern and upsetting people And I think that Actually that was a non-issue Because as long as Stern Home pin aside As long as Stern is the cheapest game in town For a commercial grade pinball machine it doesn't matter how mad you are about their accessory market they're still the only affordable pinball company no i mean i that that's very true if you look at a stern pro versus a jersey jack i mean my gosh i can't i can't afford it really i mean i that's why i have no jersey jack pins right now of course i did buy a jurassic premium but you know even if even an entry level jjp what's it's still probably more than that right what did you pay for the jp the dry well yeah uh mid sevens yeah i think i think a standard new in box wonka uh 7500 pre-shipping well that was smart that was when they decontented it prior to that yeah it was another thousand above yep yeah wonka's tempting too bad i don't like i'm not wild about the theme the theme yeah i don't know the game in general feels kind of floaty to me when I played it, but I don't know. Well, maybe you like Guns N' Roses. Oh, gosh, no.
    59:11
    I mean, I hear people saying, trying to claim that Guns N' Roses is still relevant in today's world, and it's beyond irrelevant as a theme.
    59:21
    But I do like Eric Minier, and I think that his designs are incredible. So it'll probably be an amazing, fun game that I just wouldn't want to own because of the theme. That would be probably what it'll boil down to. I can't imagine staring at Axl's face when I walk down into my basement every day or be like, kids, this is a band that sings about like these horrible. Here's a song about heroin, kids, you know, like chasing the dragon or I just I can't. Guns and Roses is a theme for me is like a big zero. But I do think Toy Story will be cool. That's interesting. If it ever happens. If Guns and Roses let me have a mode where I was feeding Axl cheeseburgers, maybe. The fat axle Yes I want to plump him up Someone has to make a fat axle I would get that Just frame it To throw mama from the train Back glass Well moving from the topper talk We'll go to Deep Root So they put out a Facebook post just the other day Asking for people to kind of write in Give them some quotes to win a t-shirt about Playfield Dimpling, and they showed a little... Was that confusing, or was it just me? Huh? The way they worded that was confusing. A little bit, yeah. I read it, and I was like, what? I was like, this sounds like a lot of work to just understand what they're saying. I'd have to reread it. I thought I understood the first time, but it was kind of lengthy for what they wanted. So basically, they want people to send an email, not post on Facebook, but send an email in to give them a quote that they could use for PR purposes. So that was part of the confusion. They had some language trying to explain that. By doing this, you were agreeing that you could be associated with your quote in their marketing.
    61:13
    And then they had their little logo where there's a little hand and it says, hammer tested. And you see it going, dink. To me, it looks like a dink.
    61:22
    It's like a soft hammer. Like one of those children's toys that goes like, I know it's not a ball-thumb hammer, but it's not a dog toy. Well, it has a little trademark, a little TM, and you see a little splash on it, and it makes me think, dink. I mean, personally, it's a little logo for a T-shirt, so it is what it is. I mean, I would have gone with something far more Soviet-inspired for this. A hammer and a sickle? No, well, not the sickle. I mean, that's like... A sickle-tested play field. You think it's sickled all our play fields? I'm not going to plagiarize the USSR flag But I'm just saying Comrades, test our playfields That'd be like if they wanted a whole Collective themed thing in pinball Maybe you do something like that That probably hurts your sales Because there's still some people that are a little salty Pinball sales in Russia There's just some people that There might be some Cold War baggage that might hurt your sales That's a vast, untapped market. You know how big Siberia is?
    62:31
    Yes, I'm waiting for the game where you go and you poison all your political rivals. It's gulag multiball.
    62:43
    It's COVID doctors keep falling out open windows. Hurry up. Oh, no. Oh, too soon? Okay. So the reason why I wanted to bring this up wasn't about the logo or the T-shirt of the contest. But I think that now that Deep Root is game ready for their reveal later this month, this, I think, is a smart strategy for them. They need something to stand out. And I think them trying to exploit that other pinball companies have garbage playfield quality is a good angle to go with. Because – 100%. I mean, Stern? They need something to make up for their terrible game that they showed a year ago and have been utterly silent since. Well, and they've been unwilling to show us anything new since then. Because, remember, that was the prototype that had zero of their innovations in it. So you got half the impression that you weren't even looking at the real game. It was a pre-alpha prototype. Yeah, it was odd, to say the least. That was odd. It's better than a box of lights, which is what Papaduke used to do. Absolutely. That's a big step in the right direction, considering the designer. But when I think about it, you know, clear coat and playfield chipping issues have been within the last two years associated with Jersey Jack, Stern and Spooky. And then Stern, too, as I have quickly learned from my fairly dismissive statements on the pinball show and the slew of emails and messenger messages I've been getting, the playfield printing quality on TMNT. Some people said they were kind of washed out I guess There's a bit of that but there's also people that have indicated that they can see where the printer inkjet head isn't like you can see the vertical lines in the print job like they printed it too fast or something like they put it on quick print mode
    64:37
    Inkjet? I don't know for home printers inkjet is garbage you should at least use a laser printer Yeah well You know, you got to save that money to invest in your topper design. So anyway, the printing. So it's a it's a thing. It's a thing right now. People are still upset with Playfield print quality. So this, though, is really focused on the dimpling. And there's been a tremendous amount of commentary about dimples versus craters versus clear peeling to clear bubbling to paint coming up. so this idea and in fact I think it was first mentioned on the EGP interview we did with Robert years ago was that they were willing to smack their playfields with a hammer and I think leaning into that is a great strategy for them. Well they stuck to it at least they've had a lot of bombastic claims over the years that a lot of things haven't materialized but this one they stuck with. In fact if they're doing like these little dink hammers like the logo suggests I think when you buy a Deep Root game, it should come with the hammer they used to test your game. Yeah, it's like the little Shawshank Redemption hammer that it uses. Yeah, that's what I remember. A little dink hammer.
    65:48
    Here's your certified, here's the dink hammer that did your playfield. And then they can just form into the back box a holding spot for it. There you go, it comes with a topper. A hammer topper. If they can really come out with playfields that you can even somewhat hit with something and it doesn't dimple. I have to say that is impressive. It is.
    66:11
    Who was doing that? That was the Celts. What are those guys' names who did Celts? The Australian company. Yes, Hagas. Hagas Pinball. Hagas Pinball came out with the new playfield manufacturing method that's indestructible. Remember, before the pandemic, they were hitting it with hammers and all kinds of stuff and videos. It is possible to do it. The question is, though, will these playfields be made completely out of wood, or what will they be coated with? I don't know on the coating. I believe in their post about this contest, they did indicate that the playfield is wood.
    66:49
    So at least a base layer or something. Because the Haggis one has all sorts of layers and coatings. In fact, they offer a regular plywood version. I think because Zach Mini whined about how the ball might roll different. I think that game looks cool That's another one I would get I think that looks cool I want to try it I say that on everything though What game do you not want to try? I like to try all games Tony I'm willing to try everything I like single level games That's why I have TNA I got several single level games In my collection You're a street level entrepreneur Single level I only have one street level game.
    67:34
    But you love them. You love all Gottliebs in general. Oh my god. I thankfully don't hear that as much as I used to. It's like, you own a couple Gottliebs. You haven't had me on in a year. You're the one who bought Mario and Dreddy. I don't understand why people are judging me. I've owned at least four or five Gottliebs. I had Rescue, Mario and Dreddy, Teed Off, Wipeout. What else have I owned? I think that might be it. Well, I have, like, this broken EM, golly, out of sight. Oh, no one counts the EMs. Yeah, I don't think that counts. Those were respected. So, yeah, I had four. Yeah. You just need to get yourself a Waterworld, and you'll be all set. I like Waterworld. It's sort of an AFM-style layout, if I remember.
    68:18
    That's probably the best one of all of them, and I haven't owned it. Well, that brings us up to our last pinball segment, which is a game. Jason, shall we play a game? Sure, sure. Yeah, you'll love this game. It's great. I know, because I designed it. Self-proclaimed fantastic. It is. Now, I don't know if you've ever heard any EGP episodes where Tony and I have played a game called Build-A-Bank.
    68:43
    Oh, yes. Actually, I want to do a Build-A-Bank. No, we're not doing Build-A-Bank, so shut up. I would crush you guys. That's out of fear, that's why. No, you would not. Because once you realize just what the randomizer does to you, you will be done and you will be like, my set of six games is garbage. I thought Tony had you on that one. He only lost by one vote. I voted I don't ever win. I needed to create more fake accounts.
    69:09
    Sort of like people who vote for the Twippies do. I thought Tony... Oh, God. He led for like the first two days or three. Yeah, I voted early. Not often enough, apparently. Apparently not. Just early. What can I say? I lost because Dennis voted for himself. I did not vote for myself. I had Ghostbusters, and some people respected that bold choice.
    69:37
    Okay. So this will be very similar, though. So, Jason, I think you're going to get a good taste of Build-A-Bank, even though it's different. We're not going to have people vote online, though. Okay. This is – there's not going to be voting at all. We're not even going to vote amongst us. This is called Fix-A-Bank.
    69:53
    Okay. So it's simple. Now, Jason has already given us the games that he owns, and I'll run through those real quick. So you have currently in your lineup Guardians of the Galaxy. Is that a pro? Pro, yes. Then you have the premium version of Jurassic Park.
    70:11
    You have the old solid-state game 8-Ball, the Bally. Yes. You have Game of Thrones. I'm assuming that's a pro as well. Pro, yeah. That's the right answer, Seth. Thank you. Yeah, that is a correct answer. I love that game so much. It's fun. And then you have Star Trek Pro. Yes. So you have five games. Right now, yeah.
    70:34
    Here's how Fix-A-Bank works. Tony and I, and you, are going to fix your lineup. Oh, yeah. Sell it for an equivalently priced item? No, no. The rules are ultra simple. I will take one of your games and I will change it to something else. I must change a game. I cannot, you know, I can't just go, I make eight ball, eight ball. I can't do something stupid like that. Make it eight ball to last. Yeah, exactly. And it can be any game. Do an EM, as long as it's a flipper pinball, it counts.
    71:06
    Then Tony will go, he can either change another one of your games or he can change the game I changed, including changing it back. and you, Jason, will get the last change. So we could change up to three of your five games. Or none. Or actually end up back exactly where we started. Is pricing factored in at all?
    71:28
    Okay, well, I can make some changes. Exactly. You see how fun this game already is? An unlimited budget. After I win the lottery, we're going to fix my pinball lottery. And the whole point is when we're done with it, Jason, you will have a hypothetical better lineup than you currently own. Doesn't that sound cool? Well, if money's not an object, that's pretty easy. Money's not an object. I'm not. Maybe after this, maybe after episode 123, we decide money is an object. I think I found a loophole in your game. No, no. There's no such thing. So since I outlined the rules, I'll go ahead and go first. and I think that your lineup currently as it stands is way too stern heavy it is you don't have enough variety here there's so many other interesting games that you could have and so what I'm going to go ahead and do is I'm going to get rid of Guardians of the Galaxy Pro I think I was tempted to pull Game of Thrones because you have five games and you have two Steve Richies but they're both good games and guardians is a good game as well but it's kind of flowy and you've already got two other flow games and that's me not counting stern jurassic park as a flow game which i really should so given that i think you need something that requires a lot more precision and accuracy so i am going to give you eight ball deluxe but for guardians not for eight ball so now i own eight and 8-Ball Deluxe. You do. And you're complaining about the lack of variety in my... 8-Ball and 8-Ball Deluxe are totally different playing games. I suppose. So that is... That's my change. So... So you're giving me 8-Ball Deluxe for Guardians? Yep. Oh, yeah. By the way, money's no object works the other way. You thought you were so smart. I'm getting screwed. Well think about that You got to keep the cash Okay trust me this is a better lineup now This is a better lineup Now Tony Not where I expected that to go. So, Tony, the current lineup is 8-Ball Deluxe, Premium Jurassic Park, 8-Ball, the original, Game of Thrones Pro, and Star Trek Pro. What do you want to do? Well, I'll tell you at this point, for the lulz, part of me wants to replace Game of Thrones with Bad Girls. Oh, that would be so awesome. So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to pull Game of Thrones and I'm going to throw Bad Girls in there. Jason, do you know Bad Girls?
    74:11
    I am familiar with it. That is a fantastic back glass. Do you know the layout? Not as well as I should. It is a mirror image of 8-Ball Deluxe.
    74:23
    That's why Tony did it. It's got a very target instead of the inline drops, and it does have multi-ball. But it is 8-Ball Deluxe, just a mirror image of it. All the shots on the left are on the right and vice versa. I'm not sure what I did to you guys to make you hate me so much. You started being all like, I'm going to win the lotto, and I'm going to be all like, I got money, and I'm going to have this awesome lineup. and hey no i guess if i if i had the ability to screw you guys and no like ruin your lineup trust us jason this lineup is better than what you own i'm getting you i'll work i'm gonna get you a raven next time we do this hey you know stern jurassic park could be replaced with raven but but jason it's it's up to you we've already improved your layout but you get to make the final choice you could undo something we did you could take what we did and do something completely different, or you could change one of your other existing games that you're now bored with. I think I'm going to have to actually leave Bad Girls over 8-Ball Deluxe, because I don't want two 8-Ball-themed games. Okay. Even though it's still an 8-Ball-themed game, just not in its name, okay? I just, I mean, theme matters to me somewhat. So, everyone, people are going to walk down to my basement, I'm going to have all pool-themed pinball machines. Oh, yeah, I'm telling you, Sharky Shootout could go in for Jurassic Park. Oh, yeah. So I'm going to replace 8-Ball Deluxe With 8-Ball Champ And I'm going to replace it with Jersey Jack Pirates of the Caribbean Collectors Edition Oh wow Now that's where you were going with that money's no object I see you didn't deviate ultimately A lot of people love that game I know Nick Waynover with Buffalo Pinball thinks it's the best I believe he thinks it's the best pinball machine ever made it's up there i mean i have a friend who owns it and it's unbelievable and the prices for it now are out of this world that's true it was either that or big lebowski i probably would have considered that too i think you made the better pick personally even though i i lean towards standard bodies versus wides uh big lebowski is notorious for breaking all the time i was gonna say i think maintenance is what broke the tie there because not only is big lebowski break but to get replacement parts for it is an absolute nightmare so okay so jason you're Your now fixed-a-banked bank is Pirates of the Caribbean Collector's Edition from Jersey Jack Pinball,
    76:46
    Stern's Premium Model of Jurassic Park, Bally's 8-Ball, Gottlieb's Bad Girls, and Stern's Star Trek Pro Edition. I'm good with that. See, it's a better bank, is it not? I mean, I agree it's a better bank. I think Hard Bodies would swap out for Bad Girls, but other than that... Yeah, but I worry that you wouldn't have enough pool theme then. Yeah, there's not enough.
    77:11
    Okay, well, that was Fix-A-Bank, the rapidly developed game inspired by Build-A-Bank. Hastily cobbled together. Hastily cobbled together that I in no way have actually planned out for over a month. I actually enjoyed it. I thought it would be fun. I thought it would be a fun idea. Okay.
    77:29
    Well, Tony, we're done with pinball, so I know we have a couple video game topics driven by the news that you have identified. We do. Just a couple, with so much pinball news and after the dearth of news that we've had lately, I decided to keep it short and sweet.
    77:45
    One thing I think was not really possible to skip on was NVIDIA's announcement of their new cards. Oh, the memes everywhere. I'm drowning in them. Yeah. I mean, it's hilarious. If you look up the 3090 memes, there are so many good 3090 memes out there. But their new RTX series video cards are coming out. They're starting out with a normal mid-price, the 3080s, like $700. The 3070 is going to be their $500 entry level one. But the big one, the 90, the one everyone wants, $1,500.
    78:27
    That's the price of a whole laptop just for a video card. Just for the video card. I mean, it literally brings everything to life. It steps out of the monitors, obviously, for $1,500 it has to, and directly interacts with it. Yes, that's what most of the memes are like, showing, here's Minecraft, and then it becomes a landscape photorealistic painting.
    78:48
    You could get one and a half Stern Toppers for that. Come on, guys. You could. This would be more useful than a Stern Topper. I don't know. The Stern Topper might come with a mode.
    78:58
    Now, one of the things I've noticed, Tony, is the 3090 is huge. Yeah, it's a couch. I don't know if it would fit in my computer.
    79:09
    I've looked. It will probably fit in my... It takes three slots. It takes three PCI slots. That's how big it is. And they actually had to create a special 12-pin power adapter for it that they give you like a converter link cable so it'll plug into something that you actually have in your computer, but just to make everything fit into the space they had to make it work. But, yeah, it takes three PCI slots. It's so big. On the other hand, it'll run 8K at 60 FPS.
    79:49
    By next year, it'll be the size of, like, a team head, too, and it'll cost, like, five bucks. That's how computers work. Yeah. I mean, I saw a meme somewhere. I should have saved it. but the guy had this enormous computer and then another smaller computer beside it and he's like that's my computer and that's the video card for it there's just wires that lead out into the video card and then back into the computer because he can't physically connect it so Tony the question is when are you buying it I have three on order that's nine PCI slots That's nine PCI slots. My new computer was big. No, I'm not. Are you buying the 3070? No, probably not. I'm running every game I play at max at 144 hertz at 100 plus FPS. I'm pretty happy with what I've got right now. I actually need to talk to you guys. I need to get a gaming laptop. I don't like to be tethered to the desk, but I want a more... Well, it is, but I want to get Baldur's Gate 3 when it comes out, and I'm pretty sure it's not going to work that great on my Surface. Well, Tony might be able to send you some recommendations. I don't know anything about gaming laptops. Alienware looks pretty good, but I don't know. I know I'm limited on laptops. I don't normally look at laptops, but I just don't like to be tethered to my desk. Freedom isn't free, though. You'll pay a price, a price in dollars. It'll melt my lap as I Try to run I have fourth degree burns On my thighs as I'm trying to run A new graphics card You don't have to worry about There's a lot of things you don't have to worry about anymore I mean that's how A lot of people use For birth control now is they just keep their laptop In their lap for an hour every day There was an article like last week That said people who use their iPads before they go to bed have lower sperm count or something like that? That depends on what you use the iPad for.
    82:03
    Yeah. I guess. They lose some to me. I'm just saying, if they're visiting certain websites, that's not... I don't even know why they did a study.
    82:14
    I was like, good, I'm going to start using it more. And then I'm going to Follow that up. The 35th anniversary of Super Mario Bros. is happening.
    82:31
    It's a me. They're kicking out a new Super Mario Bros. game. It comes out October 1st. It is only going to be available for Nintendo Switch Online subscribers. I have that. And it is a battle royale game. Wow, that's awfully violent for Mario. it's it's super mario bro 35 isn't mario already in smash bros yeah he is and isn't that exactly the same oh this is this is a different style battle royale this well i guess battle royale is like many players instead of one right in this case there's 35 players playing simultaneously the exact same map. And as you kill enemies, they get thrown to other players' maps. It's like the Tetris game. And then when you die, you're out. And it just keeps going until there's only one person left. So you don't have to buy it? It's like the Tetris. It's free with a subscription? Yeah, it's free with a Switch Online subscription. That's pretty cool.
    83:38
    Yeah, it sounds interesting. The video clip I saw looked pretty interesting On it What's weird is It's only available until March Yeah I don't understand why the game has got Not even a 12 month life cycle And then they're ending it Six months Though you're not wrong Jason In fighting games The four player all versus As a subgenre is called Battle Royale So Smash is Considered a Battle Royale as well But not like these PUBG things Right I don't understand Maybe it's high maintenance to keep it running Everything I've seen Has been Comments about the six month life cycle It's like why Yeah I just don't understand It's not like it's a live Studio audience one versus one hundred Game or something Weird Maybe they'll change their mind if it's really popular I like 1 versus 100. I did too, but I understood you actually had to have a show host and bring them in and schedule it. And I could see why that would end. I don't understand why a Battle Royale game, which runs itself, has to end. Maybe if it's popular, they'll keep it going. That's what I'm wondering, maybe.
    84:53
    But it's Nintendo. They do weird things. Switch Online is so cheap that I have it and I don't even think about it. I don't even think I've used it. I was playing Splatoon on it and things like that. But other than that, the old school games that they share on there are pretty neat, but I usually play them once. The old NES and Super Nintendo games that come included in it, I play them once or twice. I'm like, oh, wow, Double Dragon. That's fun. But then I'm done with it. That's exactly what I did with it. We've got the family one because we have three Switches in the household.
    85:28
    Because I have one. I say that you can't see it, I did air quotes with that one because I purchased it. It was for me, but I've not actually touched it or played it in a year and a half or two years. I did the exact opposite. I bought one for my youngest son for Christmas a couple of years ago, and I've just like absconded it. Like, it's fine.
    85:51
    I started shaking so badly from not going to arcades at the beginning of this whole pandemic. I just every day would buy Switch games, Switch games, Switch games. I'm like, I got to do something. I must have a backlog of 100 unplayed Switch games. Welcome to my life. I have so many Switch games, and I finally was like, why am I buying all these Switch games? So I started buying old PC games. Oh, yes, because that's much better.
    86:13
    Bard's Tale, Heroes of Might and Magic, Icewind Dale. Like, every old game I played when I was young, I started buying again. So that's my current addiction, because I can't go to arcades. What's my Steam game list up to? I use GOG, though. I don't use Steam. I've used GOG also for a lot of older stuff Yeah that's what I've been using for the older things But yeah I'm showing 517 games On Steam Oh my gosh So And I've played 12 More than that But I bet you it's not much more Than 250 Oh my gosh Well as an esteemed member of eclectic gamers, all those are free, right? Oh, yeah. I'm going to shovel them to you. Actually, what most of them probably are, not probably, what a lot of them are is purchases like through Humble Bundle, where I'll get 15 games because I wanted one. Those are good deals.
    87:19
    Yeah, it's like, I want this one game and it's cheaper to get 15 games plus the one I want than it is just to grab one. You use the highest tiers. You're a very high-maintenance gamer. I am a high-maintenance gamer guy. That's very true. You don't want those entry-level humble bundles. Oh, no. It's all or nothing. That's how I am. I am a very high-maintenance gamer.
    87:47
    So, yeah, I don't know. It'll be interesting. I'm pretty happy with it. I'll play it. Yeah, I'll play it, maybe, if I can find my Switch. I don't know. My wife has it somewhere. I just got a new TV. I'll throw it up on the TV. It'll be sick. 65-inch Mario multi-brawl.
    88:06
    I said, yeah, that actually could be pretty cool. I played the Tetris. I did play the Tetris Battle Royale game a little bit when it first came out. I did. It's frustrating because I'm not quite good enough at Tetris to actually... There's some freakishly good people on there. Right. And I think it's that way with any battle royale game. That's how it's been with every battle royale first-person shooter I've played, where it's like, I feel like my team would be doing better if I just wasn't here.
    88:40
    The weakest link. Yeah. My son's good at all those. I definitely had teammates who got to a point where they're like, hey, man, we're not rezzing you again. It's just getting in the way. you're dead and they're like you know we're not gonna bring you back yeah yeah it just just they just keep going and it's like okay that's like hey guys guys and then once you and then most of those games once you drop to a certain point once you've been dead long enough you're dead dead you can just leave and go play another game so I'm not a huge online like first person shooter player anyway other than like Overwatch as most people know first person shooters make me feel like I'm going to barf I don't like them not like because I hate them but because like it's like making me dizzy like a roller coaster really yeah I don't like the perspective yeah I've never had that issue I have had issues with stuff like oh how do you put it just certain I've had games that were twitchy enough I guess that they'd give me I'd end up with headaches because it felt like you didn't go into an epileptic seizure did you no no no it just felt like everything moved too fast so it felt like I could never get anything under control so it just felt like I need third person I can't do first person Yeah. See, I'm not a big fan of third person because I never played a lot of them and it's like, I don't want to see myself. But there's points where like, I just started playing literally this morning, Battlefront 2. and it lets you choose between third and first person. I've actually been doing some third person because it's nice for doing stuff like looking around corners.
    90:41
    I've been doing all third person isometric CRPGs. Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, all those games from back in the day. That's what I've been doing the last couple weeks. See, isometric games are my, that's my bread and butter. I play a lot of those. I've been playing or not, I haven't been playing I'm wanting to get but I'm one of those guys I like to wait until the plugs have been all worked out and I want to wait until they've finished all the issues but I really want to play Wasteland 3 yeah definitely, I have two that's another one of my, I bought this and haven't played it yet, on Switch I've got Wasteland and Wasteland 2 with 3 out now, I'm really wanting to get it.
    91:25
    It sounds cool. Yeah. No, I've played it before. I've played two before. I think it's still like 50 bucks right now, though. Yeah, yeah. It'll drop. Yeah. It literally released like last week. Yeah.
    91:40
    It's still huge, expensive, popular, and they haven't fixed all the little issues. That's the kind of game that's right in my wheelhouse, though. I love that kind of game. Yeah. Those are the ones I tend to play most of, just like when they had originally came out, the XCOM games, the new XCOM games. I mean, I played the old XCOM games religiously. Never played that one. For years and years and years. And then when the new XCOM games came out, I picked them up and I played the crud out of them too.
    92:11
    To the point where I've got just insane amount of hours in XCOM and XCOM 2. Let's see. I hate that now when I play on GOG I'm not used to that where it's like You've played this game for 100 hours I'm like no I haven't I've been playing this for 100 hours I can't believe how much time I wasted Oh yeah it's terrible You might play time on XCOM Enemy Unknown Which was the new XCOM was 138.6 hours And on XCOM 2 It was 78.4 hours And then they just came out with Chimera Squad Which I put another 30 hours into I don't like to look at it that way It makes me sad I'm like wait I don't want to spend that much time on this Oh yeah when you start seeing Like my time in games like Torchlight 2 And let's see Torchlight 2 268 and a half hours Oh Some of the Civilization games I have up over 200 hours also It sneaks up on you It does and that's the thing With a lot of these games it can be like that. Fallout, because they're open world and I am notoriously ooh shiny or squirrel, however you want to consider it when it comes to games like that. Squirrel.
    93:34
    Fallout 4, at one point, I looked at it and I hadn't even started the main quest lines at all. I hadn't even been to the main city, the main area where they tell you to go to right after the beginning, and I was 70 hours into the game. But I'd been in all sorts of other places, some of which I definitely shouldn't have been in because I did not have everything I needed there. Baldur's Gate 3 sounds like it's going to be like that. It looks like it's one of those games that's going to be like 500 hours. They said the early access demo that they're releasing September 30th, is going to have I forget how many. It was like 50 hours of game. It was just like early access. Yeah. In the demo, I was like, what? It was a lot. I was like, holy cow, this game's going to be humongous. Oh, yeah. I may have played the first one. I don't recall. I'm playing it right now on Switch. They released it on Switch.
    94:36
    I think I played the first Baldur's Gate. I love those games. Any of the D&D to tie into your eclectic gamers lost Lost Subject Matter. Any of those D&D computer games are fun.
    94:50
    I did play a number of the Neverwinter Nights. I bought that too, just like the other day. They're like five bucks now to buy. I always liked the Neverwinter Nights. I don't think the graphics aged that well in them, but the whole concept is still fun. Well, unless Tony had other gaming news, I think we reached the end of the show. Sadly, we have to end or else we put the listeners to sleep. Anything you want to plug or promote?
    95:19
    Not really. I don't make any money from anything, so I guess it's not really worth it. Don't you feed off of the popularity of your Facebook followers? Oh, yes, yes. I do have a Facebook page and an Instagram page, Nap Arcade on both, if anyone's interested. On the Instagram page, I share one picture of an arcade, one game per day. It's all classics now, though. so it goes back because i haven't been to a new arc i used to share all the pictures of new arcades that i've been to with my sons but i can't go anywhere right now so we're doing the classic edition i just shared a picture of a south park pinball machine the other day that south park picked up on and it had like 800 or a thousand likes i'm like what i'm like how did this i guess they re-shared it on their thing so i share one game a day on the nap arcade instagram and then anytime I just see any interesting news, I just share it over on the Facebook page.
    96:16
    Well, we have a Facebook at facebook.com slash eclectic gamers podcast, where we usually shows share and show zero games a day. Then we have our email address, which is eclectic gamers podcast at gmail.com. We have Twitch, Twitter, and Instagram, which is eclectic underscore gamers. And we never do anything on Twitter or Instagram. And yeah, we really don't do a lot. I did actually put out, because we were doing it for the pinball show, for some reason, Zach wanted more reviews. So I did throw out a link to the pinball promoter database with This Week in Pinball. And so, anyway, we have a few. We'll probably read them or something. I mean, I've read them myself, but I don't know if I'll read them aloud or not. I don't normally do that. But anyway, if people want to leave a review on iTunes or something, there's some way to do it. Don't ask me how, but there is.
    97:06
    That's all I have to say about that. Jason, thanks for joining the show on Relatively Short Remedies It was super fun I always enjoy talking with you gentlemen And otherwise We'll be back in a couple weeks So until then, that's Jason I'm Dennis I'm Tony And hopefully there'll be more news next time too It was nice Yeah, it was good I had this whole thing built up in case there was no news Because I just re-watched the 2010 True Grit I realized I've not seen Barry Pepper in a movie since then. And then we had actual news to talk about. Your backup plan for Pinball News was to discuss Barry Pepper's filmography? It was. That was my backup plan. Yeah, we had two people write in and said it was okay, so we can do that now. Yep. Okay. Well, we'll be back in a couple weeks. So see you, everyone.