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Tribe Multiball with Rachel and Tim: Episode 10, Sweet Sweet Jumps

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Jun 20, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Tee'd Off hosts interview Chris Chandler about Deep Root Pinball, arcade ops, and tinkering culture.

Summary

In this episode of Tee'd Off (Poor Man's Pinball Podcast), hosts Rachel Lilge and Tim Dan Lee discuss personal pinball updates, including Rachel's upcoming Mandalorian Premium Edition delivery, her frustration with unresponsive sellers, and her planned Ladies' Flip Wisconsin tournament. They interview guest Chris Chandler (Tribe Member #30) from Dallas, Texas, who discusses his involvement as a Deep Root Pinball correspondent, his passion for tinkering and arcade maintenance, and his perspectives on industry newcomers like Deep Root and Dutch Pinball.

Key Claims

  • Mandalorian Premium Edition machines are expected to ship at the end of the month

    medium confidence · Tim discussing his personal pinball news about upcoming Mandalorian Premium delivery

  • Deep Root Pinball raised money from regular investors, not pinball players, which is different from other failed entrants

    high confidence · Chris Chandler comparing Deep Root's funding model to industry precedent (Dutch Pinball, etc.)

  • The Houston Arcade Pinball Expo in 2018 was where Deep Root Pinball first publicly showed the Raza machine

    high confidence · Chris Chandler describing his first encounter with Deep Root Pinball at the expo and becoming a correspondent

  • Steven Bowden is praised as an exceptionally passionate and nice person at Deep Root Pinball

    high confidence · Chris Chandler and Rachel discussing Steven Bowden's character and passion for the role

  • Dutch Pinball is now shipping The Big Lebowski Pinball and customer sentiment is improving despite past failures

    medium confidence · Chris Chandler noting that people are placing orders despite previous boycott sentiment, and the company is releasing new software

  • The local arcade where Chris maintains machines recently decided to focus primarily on modern Stern games

    medium confidence · Chris and Rachel discussing arcade inventory changes and the barcade model

  • Rachel has been trying to sell her Deadpool machine after six months of ownership but is frustrated with non-responsive sellers

    high confidence · Rachel discussing her secondary market activity and seller communication issues

  • Chris maintains 8-9 pinball machines at a local arcade

    high confidence · Direct question and answer exchange near end of interview

Notable Quotes

  • “It sounds like I might be in on the first run of Premium Edition that I hear are shipping at the end of this month.”

    Tim @ early in episode — Confirms Mandalorian Premium Edition production timeline

  • “I'm tired of Deadpool. I've had it for about six months. I've played it like crazy so it's time to move on.”

    Rachel @ personal news segment — Indicates collector trading behavior and secondary market activity

  • “It's everything from, you know, giant Ponzi conspiracy scheme all the way through to just, you know, braggadocio and ineptitude.”

    Chris Chandler @ Deep Root Pinball discussion — Summarizes community perception range on Deep Root Pinball

  • “Deep Root Pinball, to their credit, didn't take any pinball people's money, right? There's a long and storied tradition, unfortunately, of new entrants trying to come into the pinball space.”

    Chris Chandler @ Deep Root analysis — Distinguishes Deep Root's funding model from historical industry failures

  • “Even Steven Bowden is the nicest human being on the face of the planet. I want to see them succeed because I want to see stuff get out of Steve's head and onto a play field.”

    Chris Chandler @ Deep Root discussion — Highlights individual character and passion as reason for rooting for struggling company

  • “They've got to do one thing and one thing only: make pins, make them reliably, and do it over and over and over again. If they do that, people will forget about it.”

    Chris Chandler @ Deep Root future outlook — Core requirement for any struggling pinball manufacturer's redemption

  • “I'm hearing people, Jon Hey, I ordered a The Big Lebowski Pinball. I ordered a The Big Lebowski Pinball. But two years ago, they were never going to purchase from them again.”

    Rachel @ Dutch Pinball discussion — Documents community sentiment reversal and FOMO-driven sales recovery

Entities

Rachel LilgepersonTim Dan LeepersonChris ChandlerpersonSteven BowdenpersonDaryl VanlanditepersonRyan KuyperpersonOperator MikepersonDeep Root Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Mandalorian Premium Edition expected to ship end of month; Tim anticipating delivery within next month

    medium · Tim: 'I might be in on the first run of Premium Edition that I hear are shipping at the end of this month'

  • $

    market_signal: Rachel experiencing non-responsive sellers on secondary market despite fair pricing inquiries

    high · Rachel: 'I've been trying to buy a machine. I've been a little frustrated this week with people not responding to their ads... I don't know why post an ad and not respond'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Rachel actively trading machines (Deadpool after 6 months ownership) with disciplined buy-and-flip strategy

    high · Rachel: 'I'm tired of Deadpool. I've had it for about six months. I've played it like crazy so it's time to move on. It's one of those games I purchased to play and then to move on'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Dutch Pinball experiencing measurable community sentiment recovery; customers overcoming 2-year boycott and placing Big Lebowski orders

    high · Rachel: 'I'm hearing people, Jon Hey, I ordered a The Big Lebowski Pinball... But two years ago, they were never going to purchase from them again'

  • ?

    community_signal: Deep Root Pinball's controversial market entry characterized by overpromising (claim to outsell Stern) and John Popadiuk's involvement creating negative perception

    high · Chris: 'Robert came out really hot at the beginning, talked about how he's going to outperform Sam Stern, sell more pinball machines than everybody else combined'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.171

0:00
Hey, Poor Man Tribe and listeners, this is Glennie Rogers, and you're listening to the Tribe Multiple Podcast with Rachel and Tim. Poor Man Tribe's the thing, that is who we are. It is true. They're not in this thing, so how could it go wrong? Flip away with us, to an old blockade, and then we'll learn about each other. From two pennants to another Rachel and Tim, who do we have on the show today?
0:41
Hello friends, welcome to Chai Multiball with Tim and Rachel, a pinball podcast that focuses on a dynamic collection of pinheads that share a mutual belonging of the Chai of the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast.
0:55
I am your co-host, Rachel Lilge, along with your other co-host. Tim Lee. How are you doing today, Tim? I'm doing fine. How are you, Rachel? I'm pretty good, thanks. You know, now that we're into June with all the nice weather, I got outside and I planted, hopefully, some seeds that will come up. I know I'm a little late in the game here, but I have high hopes I'll see something in August. What did you do today? Got a really bad sunburn.
1:19
That's about it. Summer. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, and I cleaned and sunburned, two things I don't like. I don't like sunburn either. I'm either ghost or lobster, so either white or red or nothing in between. Same here. Yeah, fun. So should we jump right into our personal pinball news? Yeah. Anything that you'd like to discuss? Perhaps the Mandalorian, you have a date when that's going to arrive at your house. Yeah, it sounds like I might be in on the first run of premiums that I hear are shipping at the end of June. Now, they won't promise anything, but it sounds like I should be getting it within the next month. If not, I'll patiently wait because I'm a patient person. But that's exciting. And I've also, you know, besides playing pinball, I've been trying to buy a machine. I've been a little frustrated this week with people not responding to their ads. It's, I don't know why. I've never had that issue in the past, but I'm tired of Deadpool. I've had it for about six months. I've played it like crazy so it's time to move on it's one of those games I purchased to play and then to move on so I've inquired about a couple of other games because I have a buyer for Deadpool but folks just aren't responding I don't know why, why post an ad and not respond maybe the word's out that I'm not a good guy to come in the tribe no, people just know you're a jerk because you pick on Drew all the time about his pinball skills so that could be it yeah maybe he's got this mad following and they're like you know uh they're boycotting me oh man i think we have big too big of heads all right but that absolutely stinks when i say it actually sucks that people don't get back to you why list it if you're not looking to dump it even if it is a lowball offer there's no reason you can't just send a courtesy message and just say no thanks right yep yep you know definitely was not a lowball offer so well i can't imagine that you do that because I think that you probably check pinballprices.com and other sources in order to figure out the best price for the pinball machine. Do you actually look like at Facebook Marketplace and other things to kind of get a feel? Yeah, I actually start with, you know, pinball prices, and then I head over to the Pinside archive. I always go to the archive and poke around, and I kind of try to keep tabs on games that I like in Facebook, and I'll write them down, but they disappear quickly and I don't know if they're I've never actually investigated if I could go back and look into the archive but on Facebook I try to you know if it's a game I know I want in the future if it goes so pending I'll kind of you know pencil in on the spreadsheet what I think it you know it went for but that's hard to tell on Facebook so are you literally using a spreadsheet sometimes yeah I just dummy old spreadsheet it's not like I have 500 games on there you know i'll just jot down a game and say hey this is what it's going for so i like that method any other pinball news nope none well i think i told you maybe i didn't tell you operator mike picked up his game so patiently waiting for operator mike to drop off another game so what did operator mike pick up he picked up he had a he picked up a bowling game and he picked up pinbot so he's going to be dropping off another game he told me but he likes to surprise me so The way it happens is, I kid you not, is I will hear a truck backing into my driveway at like 10 at night. He always comes at like 9.30 or 10 at night after he picks up the machines on location. I hear the truck. We all get excited. We run out and see what game he's bringing us. Oh, that's so much fun. Yep, yep. He's a good dude. Oh, that's awesome. That's it for me. How about you? As for me, I had the front half of my June League. I did not play so hot after my really great finish in May. Let's see if I can actually bring it up here. Man, I just got a couple of fourths. I just had a hard time getting things together. My best game was on Police Force. The one there at District 82 comes flying red hot out of the pops up on top and usually drains. Even with the center post there, it's very, very hard to catch. And I just happened to be able to get it on my right flipper and, you know, ramp, ramp, ramp, ramp, ramp, ramp, ramp. Is it like really steep in the pitch? Yes, I think that, well, everything there at that pin palace is definitely set up on a very steep pitch. In fact, I do encourage players that have never been there before to look underneath some of the games and may find them on paving blocks of back legs. Wow. So other than that, I had an issue with my demolition man as well as my card tricks. And today I had my, I like to call him my pinball bestie. He lives about an hour from me down in Milwaukee. actually now in Racine his name is Daryl Vanlandite he helped me today I soldered for the first time today so that was cool awesome yeah I'm like I have no idea you know I have games the issue was my lower left flipper wasn't working and just the wire had come undone and we just stuck it back on there and that corrected we also had a credit error and we actually got an assist from the tribe member number one Ryan Kuyper today as well as one of Daryl's other friends in order to resolve it but it was called the lower rebound error i'm like what the heck is a lower rebound why don't you call it what it is and it's really like a right side sling like that's along the right side of the play field but not like a sling by the drain does that make sense yes yeah anyway so yeah so then he also helped to get my card tricks operable again but it needs a couple of solenoids so i'm going to order those and he'll probably make a return trip and we'll walk through that together so i'm still appreciative of daryl he's also a really great pinball player as well he's when i first started playing i played a lot pre-covid because i live an hour between green bay and milwaukee i was able to go either either way and he whenever i go down to milwaukee he's very kind and giving me skill shots and helping me understand a game he's been such a great pin pal so thanks daryl for coming up and spending your time today to help me get that done the A third piece of personal pinball news. It comes in ebbs and flows, I think, Tim, right? Yep. I'm really excited to announce that I do have my Ladies' Flip Wisconsin, my traveling women's tournament, set for Friday, July 16th in East Green Bay. Nice. Yeah. It is held at a private collection by some other pinball players, including the women who won the last Midwest Gaming Women's Tournament that they had. That sounds pretty awesome. You've been working on that one for a while. I have. and just trying to find the right date during summer has been a little bit of a struggle. But I'm just very, very excited to welcome some new women into my favorite hobby, pastime or sport, whatever you like to call it today, including, and I'll just give you a little sneak peek that I have, I think three women from another state, they're looking to come play at my tournament. So I'm very, very, very blown away by that. Yeah, that my little dream has, you know, is blossoming and becoming this thing. It's I'm so grateful people that helped me along the way. And it just I don't know, as Rachel as Rachel, it's just mind blowing. I don't know how to explain that. Well, hey, keep it going. You're doing a great job. Thanks, man. I'm really proud of you. Yeah. Thank you. I really appreciate that so much. Your buddy sounds like a good dude. It's good to have friends and it's good to have friends that, you know, know what they're doing in pinball, because when you get stuck, you can really get stuck. so yeah and daryl is a very patient guy he's able to just kind of break it down and explain it you know i've watched videos and other things but he's able he's just patient and i'm also more of a hands-on kind of person like i'd rather be right there looking at it right in front of me and it's happening right in front of me maybe that's why i like pinball so much because it's right there happening in front of me versus like a video game like that's a deep thought right there yeah and And soldering is a good skill to have. Yeah. When I purchased Black Knight 2000, it needed like 45 wires, you know, soldered. And I had years of train layout experience where you do that all the time. But I have a problem with the play filled up, you know, like that soldering in line. And sometimes, don't tell anybody this, I call my wife down or my son and I'm like, can you hold this wire? that thought went through my mind today because then we the both of us worked it together a little bit and like it probably is really handy to have a third hand just you know because you want to get it right on there or whatever yep oh that's funny good for mrs mistress amy yep mr san mistress ann i'm sorry mr good for mistress anyway yep i think that i'm ready to do our end show of our awesome rad guests this evening So am I. their content until after we interview them or after I interview them, as it gives me more of a feel for the tribe member person themselves. So please bear with me if I ask some rookie Rachel questions. So from Dallas, Texas, I give a warm welcome to tribe member number 30, Chris Chandler. Welcome. Welcome, Chris. Howdy, folks. How you doing? I just figured I'd lean into the stereotype yeah I appreciate that uh you know I know that you're a long time listener so I feel like we can kind of just jump in uh but I do first want to really say thank you for listening and sharing our tribe stuff and just being a cool awesome fan yep thank you Chris hey my pleasure y'all are doing the hard work it's easy uh easy to to listen and be a fan oh Tim does all the hard work I just show up and have fun so he does all the editing and I always have to say thanks to him for that. So, so you're, you're the jobs to his Wozniak then. Sure. Absolutely. Um, he's the Watson to my homes. Maybe, I don't know.

“I'm a tinkerer by nature, right? I used to be into go-karting before I was into pinball machines.”

Chris Chandler @ hobby background discussion — Establishes Chris's personality and attraction to hands-on problem-solving

Dutch Pinball
company
Spooky Pinballcompany
Stern Pinballcompany
The Mandaloriangame
Deadpoolgame
Razagame
The Big Lebowskigame
The Simpsonsgame
Police Forcegame
Demolition Mangame
Card Tricksgame
Black Knight 2000game
Pinbotgame
John Popadiukperson
Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization
Ladies' Flip Wisconsinevent
Houston Arcade Pinball Expoevent
  • ?

    historical_signal: Established pattern of new pinball manufacturers overpromising and failing to deliver; Deep Root and Dutch Pinball cited as recent examples

    high · Chris: 'There's a long and storied tradition, unfortunately, of new entrants trying to come into the pinball space and they make all these big claims'

  • ?

    business_signal: Deep Root Pinball funded by general investors (not pinball enthusiasts) with expectation of losses; distinct from typical pinball crowdfunding failures

    high · Chris: 'Deep Root Pinball, to their credit, didn't take any pinball people's money... running off of like pure investor money'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Local barcade shifting inventory focus to modern Stern machines exclusively; decision reflects business model of flat-fee play

    medium · Chris and Rachel discussing arcade moving to 'primarily modern Sterns'; barcade model with one entry fee for unlimited play

  • ?

    community_signal: Chris actively maintains 8-9 machines at local arcade; represents emerging hobbyist technician segment supporting commercial venues

    high · Chris: 'Locally, I maintain pins at a local arcade. That's been a fun, rewarding experience'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Rachel learning hands-on repair (soldering, diagnostics) with mentor Daryl Vanlandite; community knowledge transfer in action

    high · Rachel: 'I soldered for the first time today... My lower left flipper wasn't working and just the wire had come undone. We just stuck it back on there'

  • ?

    event_signal: Ladies' Flip Wisconsin women's tournament scheduled for July 16 in East Green Bay; drawing out-of-state participants

    high · Rachel: 'I have my Ladies' Flip Wisconsin, my traveling women's tournament, set for Friday, July 16th in East Green Bay... I think three women from another state are looking to come play'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Chris suggests Deep Root should have shipped MVP version of Raza in 2018 rather than delaying for innovations; highlights industry best practice disconnect

    medium · Chris: 'If they had just shipped what they had in Houston... they could have later on added all the innovation... MVP, minimum viable product'

    • 11:41
    We could go, we could go with those kinds of comparisons all day if you want. He's the tuna to my tuna melt. All right, let's move on. Okay.
    11:51
    Um, I know this isn't your first rodeo because I read in the document that you dropped to me this week, which I think is funny. He's the first guest that actually sent us like a document of the, you know, like an actual document, just not just like a messenger list of things, but an actual type document of the ideas and things for the show. I think it's so cute and I'm really appreciative of that. I thought first we could at least give you an opportunity if there's any other hobbies you'd like to talk about that you're currently into. It does look like you also are a big fan of Bucky's. Yes, yes. sent Drew and Ian a couple of different care packages of beaver nuggets. And yeah, Buc-ee's is, if you haven't been there, it is a sight to behold. There's literally over 100 gas pumps there. The thing is huge. They have, I don't know, 50 feet of different soft drink fountains choices. They have candy. They have an entire clothing line. You can buy polished rocks there. I mean, it's insane all the stuff that is inside of Buc-ee's. Not to mention the cleanest bathrooms you'll ever find. It's a chain of gas stations, basically? Yeah, yeah. So it was started by a couple of guys from Texas A&M. The gist is they started just with the whole thing of the clean bathrooms and like a buttload of gas pumps. The whole idea of just being to cycle people through it. And it's sort of become a phenomenon. It's kind of interesting. Do they know that you are their number one fan? Oh, no. There's people that go way further into it than I. Oh, I believe that. I ship product. I have a Bucky's hat. you know that that's about the limit of the how far i go okay i see we have a gas station chain called quick trip around here and people are just quick trip diehards i think there's one within there's actually three within a two mile radius maybe less than that of my home but it's funny what about you tim do you have like a gas station like that in your area yeah it's called sheets i think they're in like five or six different states but they're headquartered here locally Same thing. You have your Sheetz attics, and they have like a – they call everything like schmuffins and schmegels. They put that schmuck on the front, and people go crazy over it. Hilarious. All right. There's Wawa out east, and the people here in central PA in western Pennsylvania get like so annoyed with Wawa, and it's like a big gas station war. But does Buc have donuts I don know what else They have to Yeah I would imagine But you know I would be remiss if I didn make the obvious joke of having to pull over and take a Schmidt
    14:24
    Hold on. Thank you. Be here all week. Try the meal. Right. I bet there's got to be some type of gas station podcast that exists out there as well.
    14:33
    I'm sure there is. There has to be. Do you listen to any other podcasts, Chris, outside of pinball stuff? Yeah, there's actually quite a few different podcasts I listen to. I'm an IT nerd. Specifically, I focus on things around developers and what's called developer experience, basically making life not suck for developers. How kind of you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So there's a lot of stuff in that space I listen to, you know, things that are related to, quote, unquote, DevOps for people that are in the industry and understand what that means. But also things like Freakonomics and, you know, just other interesting things that make me think, you know, so that, you know, I try to mix it up. And there's a hell of a lot of pinball podcasts in there as well. Yeah, I would think that might be the lighter content in what you listen to. Maybe. I don't know. Freakonomics. I just had to say it. I don't know. I don't know if you've ever heard that. That was a robot chicken thing.
    15:26
    Anyway, looking at the document that you sent me, I noticed, and also my heavy Facebook stalking that I did of you recently, that you were a Deep Root correspondent for two different pinball shows. Can you talk to me about how you got involved with Deep Root? And, you know, I want to remind people I'm kind of a rookie person still in some ways, so, like, a real basic explanation of Deep Root might also be helpful to some other casual listeners. Yeah, it kind of depends on who you ask when it goes to Deep Root, right? It's everything from, you know, giant Ponzi conspiracy scheme all the way through to just, you know,
    16:03
    braggadocio and ineptitude. But, yeah, I mean, the whole idea with Deep Root is there's supposed to be this other entrant into the pinball market, and they're supposed to really, you know, they came out, you know, in true Texas fashion, guns firing, and really claimed that they were going to shake up the industry. Right. But it was going to the Houston Arcade Expo in 2018 that really made me think about doing it. Or, you know, think about being a Deep Root correspondent, right? So back with the Special Win Lit Days when Ken and Bill were running that podcast, they were looking for a Deep Root correspondent. And I went and saw them in Houston at the Houston Arcade Expo in 2018. And, you know, they had the Razzes there. And they just sort of out of nowhere brought those things. Nobody's really expecting it. And I was there the whole time pretty much playing Raza. There was all these other pins, all these other arcade machines, all this other stuff going on. And I just, for some reason, really found myself gravitating back to that machine.
    16:57
    And so they really were onto something there. I'm the kind of person that when I get into a hobby, I just really go all in.
    17:04
    And like everybody, I was just consuming every podcast I could get, reading Pinside every day, just scouring the web for all sorts of information. And I'm usually somebody to get involved in the community. So when they were asking for a Deep Root correspondent, and then after I saw what they had, I was like, okay, well, they're in San Antonio. That's like five hours away from me. You know, what the hell? I'll give it a shot. And so it was back in the special and lit days that I joined as a correspondent. And then we all know the fun that happened between that and the pinball show. I'll let other people discuss all that fun stuff. Good idea. Yeah. So, yeah, I decided to, you know, keep going with it, with the pinball show. And yeah, because of that, when in September 2019, they finally got around to letting us go down there, you know, that was, let's say, an adventure. How about that?
    17:52
    That, you know, I was new coming into pinball in September 2019. So all of that kind of just went over my head. And now looking back and some of the other things that I've read about it, it's pretty interesting. Like, I feel bad for investors. Can I say that much? Yeah, I mean, I will say that it's a little different in the fact that, you know, Deep Root, to their credit, didn't take any pinball people's money, right? There's a long and storied tradition, unfortunately, of new entrants trying to come into the pinball space and they make all these big claims and talk about how they're going to do stuff, looking over at you, Dutch Pinball. And they just never are able to deliver. and at least in this case, DeepRit was running off of like pure investor money, like, you know, regular folks with, you know, decent sized wallets that can afford to lose the money and they're not expecting a pinball machine in return, right? So at least that was different. But, you know, unfortunately, what's where the parallels have come from is, again, one, Robert came out really hot at the beginning, talked about how he's going to outperform Stern, sell more than more pinball machines than everybody else combined. And that combined with the fact that he brought in John Papaduke, aka J-Pop, as a designer who had himself tried a few times to run a business and never delivered on it. It just left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. So you have this sort of dichotomy where if you look at Spooky, almost everybody roots for Spooky, right? I don't know of anybody who says, man, Spooky sucks. I hope they fail, right? Everybody loves Charlie. It's a classic American dream type of story, right? Absolutely, they are. And then you contrast that with what happened with Deep Root where they just came out really hot, really heavy, and so far have not actually delivered anything. You take that, yeah, the J-pop thing, it just – there's still people rooting for them, and I'll be honest. I'm one of them. I want to see them somehow be able to salvage this thing. I just don't know how they're going to do it at this point. That's good. I was going to ask if you thought – if you had a feeling one way or another if it's a possibility for it to happen or if you're rooting for them. And I'm glad to hear that. You know, I try to root for the underdog, too. Well, yeah. And, you know, if there's any reason to root for Deep Root, it's Steve, right? Steve Bowden is the nicest human being on the face of the planet. And one of the greatest things about going down there to see that launch, you know, put all the miserable stuff that happened aside, is talking with Steve. That guy is so freaking passionate and so made for that role that I want to see them succeed because I want to see stuff get out of Steve's head and onto a play field. I want to see those rules come up. I want to see all the great ideas he has. So if it's not with Deep Root, I hope somebody lets him actually do that job and share his genius with us. That's great. We're rooting for you, Steve. Yeah, I've heard Steve is a good guy as well. And let's be honest, if another pinball company succeeds, it's just good for the industry, right? It gives us more options. You know, who cares at this point what people said coming out of the gate? I like Steve. I like to watch his streams. Albert has told me a lot of nice things about Steve. And, you know, you just want to see the company succeed for the employees and, you know, guys like Steve. And like I said, I just want another pinball company. Absolutely, absolutely. And I will say that there is no doubting the passion from all the folks down there, right? Yeah, just for all those reasons, I would love to see them be successful. You know, just unfortunately, it's at put up or shut up time, right? They got to do one thing and one thing only, make pins, make them reliably, and do it over and over and over again. If they do that, people will forget about it, right? I mean, you know, that's the number one thing you got to do, ship pins. Yeah. Yeah, and everybody was upset about the Big Lebowski because you had mentioned Dutch Pinball, but I know a large number of people that have now put their names on the list to get a Big Lebowski after everyone said we're never going to buy from Dutch Pinball again. Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, I mean, again, that's not exactly the perfect model for a pinball company, but I will say they're at least doing stuff, right? I still have no idea how they're going to dig themselves out of the hole they dug, but, you know, to their credit, they're trying. I mean, they released new software recently. They're shipping people's pins. I mean, it's not exactly a feel-good story, but it's not the complete shit show it was before. Yep, yep. I guess my point was just that people are starting to come back. I'm hearing people, hey, I ordered a Lebowski. But two years ago, they were never going to purchase from them again if they were ever to make a machine. But if you put out a pinball machine and it's a good quality pinball machine, people will start to buy it. Well, exactly, especially when you start putting limited numbers and add the FOMO factor. Right. The walls will open up. And I think Raza looks great. I love roller coasters. I don't know if I've ever told you that, Rachel, but I absolutely love amusement parks. I was excited when I saw a zombie roller coaster game because I like roller coasters and Amy likes zombies. Oh, it's a perfect matchup then. Yeah, that's awesome. High spousal approval factor on that one. Yeah. Yes, sir. nothing wrong with that at all she actually watched the live stream with me when was a fliptronic that went on there yep yep yep yep amy watched the live stream with me she's like we got to get this game and i'm like well i think that's the only one but someday well and that's the thing that gets me is is had they just shipped what they had in houston i you know we wouldn't be having this conversation right they could have later on added all the innovation and and whatnot so you know i think i think it's the the tried and true story of You know, in technology, we have the concept of what's called an MVP, minimum viable product, like just the thing that barely does enough stuff to be of value. Right. And they should have started there and then bring in the pin bar and all the other stuff. Right. So. But hey, you know, again, let's let's hope they manage to right the ship and somehow make it happen. Right. I agree. Well, thank you for that little introspect into Deep Root. I do appreciate that. Do you want to do future correspondent work for other shows? No, I mean, I really decided to take a step away from it just because of just, I got a lot of stuff going on, right?
    24:06
    What are you doing in your local pinball scene? Well, so in addition to just day-to-day life, right? Right. Wife, two kids, having a second house, other hobbies, whatnot. But there's other things I do. Like locally, I maintain pins at a local arcade. Okay. So that's been a fun, rewarding experience. I mean, knock on wood, my Simpsons has been rock steady. And I kind of missed that part from the first machine that I had, which, you know, we'll probably talk about a little bit later. But I'm a tinkerer by nature, right? So that's part of, you know, I used to be into go-karting before I was into pinball machines. And so, you know, it also had that sort of similar mix of I'm doing something physical that's real, that's challenging and needs mastery. But then there's also the take it apart, put it back together, improve it, tinker, you know, that sort of cycle to it. So, yeah. Wait. So you mean like the racing carts? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a. Oh, wow. Yeah. So mine was was on the lower end. It was like a spec class. But, you know, I did about 65. So when your butt is literally an inch off the ground, 65 is pretty freaking fast. Yeah, that's fast for a go kart. Wow. So, yeah, it's the same thing. Like you probably had to do engine work. You know, you're trying to get the best performance out of the out of the cart. So I could see that parallel. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're messing with gear ratios and other other stuff, you know, just trying to eke out an extra tenth, you know, of a second a lap or whatever it may be. Right. It's the same thing as formulating a strategy for tournament or for home play. Just trying to figure out how do I how do I stack these things to to get this extra objective? And, you know, it's, it's, uh, like, for example, I used to be into the card game, Magic the Gathering. Okay. I realized I spent more time actually building decks than actually playing. Right.
    25:59
    For me, the fun was figuring out, like, how do I cheat the rules? How do I break the system? How do I, you know, how do I do the thing that wasn't intended? You know, so that, for me, that's, that's sort of part of what makes pinball appealing to me as well. Right. It's just coming up with different ways to sort of attack the problem. You definitely are a tinkerer. I like that you use that noun for yourself. Have you taken apart a clock?
    26:22
    That's a good question. Yeah, I'm just curious because people that are into that, they sometimes take things apart and they have maybe one piece left over at the end, especially growing up as a kid. I was just curious if you had something else. Yeah, pretty much anything in the house that breaks, I refuse to let it go, right? Oh, boy. My wife bought me a really nice espresso machine, and the button that registers when you push the little basket in to make the grinder go went out. Okay. So, of course, it's out of warranty, and I'm like, screw it. I took the whole thing apart, looked at it, desoldered the switch, tested the switch, found out it was a physical problem, added a little extra stuff in front of it to make it push in further. fixed it, put it all back together, done, right? So that's kind of how I'm, pun fully intended, wired. You know, I just, I'm the kind of person that when something breaks, I want to try to fix it. Man, I wish that I had you handy right in my back pocket here to help me fix all sorts of things. I don't, my brain just doesn't work that way. And I always really enjoy meeting people whose brains do. It's just, and I also find a lot of people in pinball that they are tinkerers or engineers or I mean all sorts of folks but there's quite a few of those that are able to they're looking at the pinball machine as a problem or looking at a solution to it right yep absolutely yeah and so that's awesome I like knowing that about you yeah I'm the same way as you Chris except when I start to get into it I screw it up royally and Amy's like I'm gonna call our buddy Rich to come over here and help you out. And I'm like, no, you're not. I'm going to get this. And after about a couple of days, I'm like, yeah, you better call Rich. But I try. I try. Yeah, I will say, yeah, my pride doesn't get in the way. I know when the right time to pull the ejection cord, right? And just say, all right, I'm out or things to farm out. It's like, you know, I could do that, but hell no, I'm not doing it right. Yeah. I do not. I go down with the plane But hey can I ask you how many pinball machines at the arcade do you help out with About eight or nine maybe Okay So, yeah, in fact, what's interesting is they, I don't know, maybe this is a reflection on me, but they just decided to get rid of a lot of their stuff and go primarily modern sterns. Yeah, they're a barcade, so they have the model of one entry fee, and then you play everything you want. Okay. But yeah, it's with the, with everything that happened with COVID, you know, and the fact that, you know, my, my wife's going through cancer treatment. I, you know, I just couldn't go there anymore. And so for that reason, he decided to just go ahead and refresh his lineup and go all modern Stearns. You know, he had things like a 1970s Bally Star Trek, you know, Austin Powers, Starship Troopers, you know, like some, some relatively older machines. For sure. And, you know, they just, unfortunately, they just weren't up to the task. I mean, you know, in their defense, they're 40-plus-year-old machines, right? So. Yeah. When did you get into pinball? Well, you know, my origin story is pretty much typical one, right? I never really played them much as a kid. I was really more of an arcade guy. In fact, I kind of got annoyed at Adam's family. You know, I was over there playing Street Fighter and hearing, bing, you know, and the dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun, Music going off. I'm just like, you know, I don't know. But the main thing is I just never understood pinball, right? And I could play a game for 25 cents or play pinball for 50 or 75 and not know what the hell I'm doing and be done in 30 seconds, right? Right. So I just never knew, right? And then I got a friend that bought one in 2017. And that's really kind of when the light went off because, you know, I had somebody to sit there and explain, like, hey, there's actually rules to this, right? And, you know, there's objectives there. What was the game? It was Stern Star Wars. Okay. So, you know, it was that whole light bulb of going back to what I said earlier, right? The how do I cheat the system? How do I, you know, so you're talking about things like, okay, I'm going to stack this and this. And, you know, I can, like, for example, with that game, love it or hate it, the multiplier aspect of it, right? You have to keep hitting these stand-up targets to keep the multiplier going. And if you can do that, there's a huge payoff, right? Yeah, it's enormous. Typical pinball, though, risk-reward, right? you hitting those you're likely to center during so you know just understanding all of that you know really just that's that's sort of what what made the light bulb go off for me so from there it was just going straight into pinball arcade going on location playing in a couple of tournaments luckily not coming in last you know that's always good but it's always somebody's turn to come in last it always is well speaking of last a comment you said you know you didn't understand pinball Drew still doesn't understand pinball I swear Tim if I thought I came over there to Pennsylvania I will throttle you it's blessed right alright was that scary Chris did I scare you I hope not alright we don't want to upset the host move along nothing to see here okay so you played a lot of pinball arcade and you just absorbed that content? Did it explode as far as watching videos and listening to podcasts and everything as well then too, as usual for most pinball players? Oh, yeah. It was a lot of, you know, at that point I thought, okay, well, I need to know all the rules of every game, right? So I went through that and tried to go through the entire list of all the Bowen tutorials and cram all that in my head. And then for the games that were on pinball arcade, I tried to apply that and so on and so forth. So what was the first game that you purchased? Well, what the route most people did, you know, started at the low end and bought a pretty beat up high speed. I mean, it was nice in the fact that it was functional and it played right. You know, it wasn't something where I did like jump in and start doing board work day one, although I ended up doing some of that, you know, reflowing connectors and things like that. But primarily it was it was just ugly. the back box was held together by brackets from the old store handy dan which if you don't remember that uh because you're probably not nearly as old as i am handy dan was the predecessor to home depot so like before home depot ever existed that's when these brackets were made and and applied to this machine so right so so i i'm guessing some drunk person must have like you know ripped the back box off of it you know pretty much when they bought it or something i don't know but anyway yeah long and short i had to build an entirely new back box for it put a hard top on it and you know got it in pretty good shape and actually you know ended up flipping that and kind of broke even you know but the hope was you know everybody's everybody's dream is oh i'm gonna buy this machine for cheap right and i'm gonna put all this love and care into it and somebody's gonna pay me this money i'm gonna take that i'm gonna bankroll my way all the way to you know some greater machine up the road and it doesn't work like that i broke even and and like instantly killed that dream. I'm like, screw this noise. Yeah, if you break even on your first machine, you're doing well. But let me ask you, so your first machine out of the box, you pretty much rebuilt the back box and put on a hard top? Yep. Yep. Okay. That blows my mind. Good for you for a first machine. I'm just too stupid to know any better.
    33:45
    No, that's really amazing. I mean, coming from my perspective where I, you know, I soldered something for the first time today, I was pretty excited about that. I'm pretty blown away to hear about as much work as you did on your very first machine. So you traded that out, and how many games do you have now? Just one. I just have a Simpsons pinball party. Oh. Yeah, it just so happens that Eric Smith, the owner of Titan Pinball, lives literally five minutes from me. All right. And he had a really nice Simpsons that was actually at that Houston Expo I talked about earlier. So, yeah, I ended up buying that off of him. That's been my one and only machine since then. And so it's been, what was it? I guess that was November of 2019. So nothing but Simpsons since then. Is it a game you would bolt? I think so. I mean, for me, it's theme. I mean, let's be honest. It's not the best shooting pin in the universe, right? It's not horrible, but it's not a flow master for sure. No, it is not. I find it clunky for sure. Yeah. So, I mean, once you play it, you do learn where the shots are. You learn the rules. And for me, it was a couple of things. One is I love the Simpsons, always have. Second is Keith Johnson rule set, right? That buddy of mine I talked about that got me into pins. Yes. He's since become a massive JJP fan. And so he's got, currently he's got every JJP except for Dialed In. But anyway, it was early on looking at his collection that I came to understand the value of Keith Johnson rule set, right? It's just, there's so much stuff you could do. It's deep. It's a very deep set. Well, and it's not even just deep, but also just the stacking possibilities. possibilities and there's so many different ways you can play it. I mean, I've had it, like I said, for, you know, well over a year and a half and I'm not bored with it. I still have fun playing it. What is the best competitive strategy, do you think, for that game? You know, that's the weird thing is you would think as long as I've had it that I would really have like started to tear all that apart. And honestly, I just kind of play it to play it. Like I play that, I play that machine really for progress. So I've managed to get to four of the six items you need to get to the like uber wizard mode in that game oh very fancy yeah and which is pretty damn hard actually i mean i've never been able to do it since then but no i just kind of play i mean like for i mean going to your question i mean like a prime example is assuming this wouldn't work for tournaments but you know there's there's one of the ramps that you hit the most tavern ramp if you hit that 10 times you get a lights extra ball for example There's a mode called Duffman whose objective is hit that ramp five times. So like that's kind of, to me, a painfully obvious first mode to try to go for. Right. Because, you know, you're making progress towards that extra ball. Right, correct. But what's funny, though, I'll have to share it with you afterwards. I wanted to get my mind wrapped around the rule set. And so I made this crazy elaborate flow chart-y kind of thing that shows all of the rules and how they all interconnect and stuff. It's kind of like, you know that meme from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, right, where Charlie's got all the yarn strung? The conspiracy board, yes. It's kind of like that. Okay. I hope that you share that on our fan page, Wrath in the Tribe. I think that would be really awesome to see that. Yeah, when you post this, I'll reply back with that. It just gives you an idea of just how insane the rules are in this game. Yeah, and that's something that I'm trying to really start to focus on, so I'm really excited to see that. I do want to mention that there are several tribe members that actually have a Simpsons pinball party. I took a chance to play Jews, and his was really nice, but I can't tell you what the GC on it was. But we should definitely compare scores. Oh, I already have. Oh, you have?
    37:25
    Did you wipe him out of the water? Nah, he's at 200. I'm at 215. Okay. Either he doesn't suck at pinball, or I almost barely don't suck at pinball. One of the two. Yeah, it could be both, right? Who knows? Yeah, exactly. Dude, he plays with the glass off of a 5.0 pitch. Shut up, Tim. Shut up.
    37:46
    I can't wait. I cannot wait until Expo in October just so that you and Drew can have some type of tournament. Chris, do you have thoughts on that? So we can finally put that to rest who the worst pinball players between the two of them? Yeah, let's make it like a best of five, best of seven, something like that. Whoever loses chooses the game on the next round. I think, you know. Yeah. See if we can get some fencing and have it be like a cage match type of thing or something.
    38:12
    I've always told Drew it's a battle for last place. And oh, my goodness, if I lose to him, I'll never live it down.
    38:20
    That's all right. I don't know who I'd root for. Would it be bad for me to cheer for my co-host or should I cheer for Drew, who I love dearly? So I don't know. Yeah, that's going to be a tough one. I might not even be able to be in the room. Or I can be Switzerland and just be neutral, be the referee or something. Maybe that would be better. It's kind of like choosing between a kick in the nuts or a punch in the eye. Yeah. This one happens and the other. Neither sounds pleasant. Chris, are you coming to Expo? You know, I haven't decided yet. I happen to live about 10 minutes from where they host TPF. So that was a no-brainer for me. There's no reason not to go to that. Still haven't figured out what's going to happen with Expo. But I guess I need to figure out soon. Otherwise, there won't be anywhere to crash on Drew's couch or something. Yeah, the weekend after Midwest Gaming Classic. I'm so excited to go to both of those events. I've not been to anything like that yet, so it should be pretty entertaining to say the least. Chris, do you consider yourself – I think that we've already resolved this. I might actually know the answer. I think you're more of an enthusiast. I don't think you classify yourself really as a competitive player or a collector, right? Are you more of an enthusiast out of all three of those? Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, for me, it's about absorbing all the things around the hobby, you know, interactions with people in the hobby, that sort of thing. And, yeah, you know, maybe one day when I kick both my kids out of the house, you know, maybe I'll shift into collector mode. But I don't know. That's all right. You also mentioned that you stream once in a while and very, very occasionally you stream. Yeah, yeah. It's been quite a while. But, yeah, the last time I streamed was when I was showing off a Pinsound mix I was working on with a guy named Stephen Kandel, who, in a very strange coincidence, also used to work at Deep Root. Oh. Yeah, just to bring it full circle.
    40:12
    But anyway, yeah, that was his COVID project, right? He bought a Pinsound board, which if you're not familiar with Pinsound, what it is. I am not. So on older machines, you can't easily replace the audio files. Okay. So what a pin sound board does is it sort of gets in the middle of the CPU of the game and whatever the sound system is in that game. And it allows you to customize all of the audio. So when, you know, like say, for example, whenever you hit the the Mose or I'm sorry, the auto shot on Simpsons Pinball Party, it says some random auto quote. OK. You know, like, dude, my shoes are talking to me, you know, something like that. Right. Well, you can you can customize all of those. You can't change the events. Right. I can't make it say random things at different times, but I can replace audio file A with a new one that is like CD quality audio, which is big on Simpsons because it has that old crappy 8-bit audio, you know. All right. Like the audio in your Demoman, for example. Or is the Demoman a WCS machine? Is it a Williams? Yeah. You're asking me? Yes, it is, but I can't tell anything else other than that. Anyway, there's an era where they put better. M-class. Yeah. There's an era where they put better sound in those machines. I forgot exactly when that happened. But anyway, it's like that old 8-bit, crunchy, sounds like crappy computer sampling type stuff. That's what the default sounds were in Simpsons. And so what's nice is you can replace the background music with CD quality audio, and you can choose different songs and whatnot. So that was kind of fun to help collaborate on that as well. Did you trick out your Simpsons game then with different callouts? Yeah, with all the callouts, yeah. we went nuts on that. I mean, again, most of it's Steven's work, right? I added, I helped choose some of the, some of the music for it, added some extra samples and call outs and things like that. But yeah, it's you know, it was, it was a fun, but tedious adventure. You know, it's, it's kind of like editing a podcast. You're going in and clipping audio from, you know, from the Simpsons movie or from the episodes and having to, you know, set audio levels for it and trim it down and blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, squeeze it in there and make it fit. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Cause that's the thing is, is call outs. I gotta be really short. You don't want this real long drawn out call out or the end of stomping on each other. Yeah, that makes sense. I have experienced a Spider-Man game that was modified at a place in Milwaukee with,
    42:42
    instead of the bash toy that in it whatever it is it was modified Let just say with the former president Yeah I was going to say I remember Drew and Ian posting that And it has call as well and it really really funny It's so funny. So that's interesting. Now I know how that occurs. Yep. Cool. Thank you. Sure. Tim, did you have any questions this evening for our guest? Simpsons, I really enjoy that game, Chris. I actually am impressed that you helped with that project. I've always thought of doing that because I have a Dark Knight.
    43:15
    And, you know, I don't know who they got to do the Batman, you know, voiceover in Dark Knight, but it's like me in there talking like Batman.
    43:27
    And, you know, I've thought about it. You know, I've looked up, you know, how to do it and so forth. So I've kind of thought about it. So maybe that'll inspire me. Maybe that's my next project since I've restored three pinball machines, but I haven't done anything like that. So maybe that's something I can kind of look into. But how about – you said that you really didn't play pinball as a kid. Yep. You were more of an arcade guy, right? Is there anything else you did as a kid? I always like to ask people that. What was your hobby as a kid then besides arcades? The other major thing was BMX. We had an undeveloped housing division next to us, right, that had this sweet set of just undulating ground, which, you know, here in Texas, it's very flat. I mean, in fact, there's a town in the panhandle of Texas called Level Land, to give you an idea. All right. Wow, very inventive name there. Exactly. Yeah, we're creative here. So, you know, it was very unusual, but it made for a bitchin' BMX park, right? So when I moved there, a lot of the kids in the neighborhood had already set it up, but they went out there with lawnmowers and literally mowed down all the grass and then drove on it so much that that was what we did all day every day was just go out there and do sweet, sweet jumps out on the BMX track. Sweet, sweet jumps. Sweet jumps, just like Napoleon Dynamite. See, I gambled with that question a little bit. I thought Chris is going to give me something really good that he did as a child. We had Ryan Kuiper on last episode. That guy didn't even have pegs in his bike.
    45:05
    Love you, Ryan. You're triggering something, man, because there was the BMXers versus the freestylers, right? And the BMXers would never have pegs on their bike because that was freestyler stuff, right? Yeah, you couldn't have the pegs when you were racing. But I love you, Ryan. I just – I asked him that. He's like, I did have pegs on my bike. so chris have you played the bmx pinball machine no i haven't and i haven't uh and i so i after bmx i went to skateboarding so again talking about you know warring factions right once once i became a skateboarder like all my bmx friends never talked to me again oh yeah but so i haven't played i haven't played uh radical or uh you know any of those other you know bmx and or skateboard-themed pins. Would love to. Someday, those pins will find their way to you. Yep, yep. Or vice versa. Well, I just, the thing is, I need to be more, so I've only been to one TPF. Texas Pinball Festival, for those who don't know. Correct, correct. So, you know, I told, but, you know, I got really impatient, right? I only would play certain pins that were open or available or, you know, what have you. So I told myself next time, I'm going to go deep into the archives, right? I'm going to go pick out all the quirky machines. And, like, you know, my goal is going to be try to play every one. But, you know, they generally have multiple hundred machines. So that's going to be a tall order. Yeah, I was trying to say or think about that. If it's multiple hundred machines, are there duplicate machines there? Is everybody required to bring a different game? How does that even work? No, there's a few dupes. Like, Kerry Hardee's was the nicest last demo man. or I mean Last Action Hero rather that was there but there was a couple different high speeds there for example and stuff like that they even had a big Lebowski believe it or not which is pretty amazing so it was nice to be able to play that game because that was a rare treat that's one game I spent quite a bit of time waiting in line for and playing just because of the rarity of it yeah and then when you wait in line are you limited to only playing one game then you have to go back to the back of the line well I'm only 5 foot 7 so I'm going to say yes If I were bigger, perhaps I could pull off a couple of games in a row. But, yeah, it is Texas. You never know who's packing. So it's probably best just to go to the end of the line. Yeah, there you go. On that note, when I was at Replay FX, I was waiting to play Simpsons Pinball Party. I had never played. And the guy in front of me played three games.
    47:43
    Finally, on game four, I said, are you serious? And I think he got the hit, and then he played one more game and left. But I really wanted to play that game because I love The Simpsons. But I'm only 5'6", so I probably shouldn't have said that.
    48:00
    You just need to have some tribe members there to back you up. That's all. Yeah. How tall is Josh Mudd, right? He looks like he's 6'4", or something. So we just need the beef and security for the short people. I'm only 5'4 1⁄2". Don't forget that half. So I'm right there with you. Round up. Yeah, that's right. Hey, five-five then. I'll take it. Sure, why not? Tim, would you like to ask our guest the most difficult question? Yes. So the most difficult question you will ever be asked in a podcast. Number 30. Is Santa Claus real? Well, I believe in a little Kris Kringle. I think everybody should, don't you? Yeah. That's what I tell my kids. See? Santa brings gifts to those who believe. There you go. Yep. The second most important question is, how did you get into the tribe? Well, so this goes back to the correspondence stuff, right? So we had a, as I termed it, correspondence gone wild episode where all the correspondents got together and just said, hey, screw it. Let's have a podcast episode of our own. Right. So we're doing a little pregame warm up or whatever you want to call it. And, you know, I was mentioning about this is back when Drew was going on and on and on about Screwball, right? Yeah. Almost every episode he's talking about how awesome it was and that's what he's drinking, blah, blah, blah. So I've gone to the liquor store, and as I'm going to check out, sure enough, there's a display thing there with Screwball on it. I'm like, all right, I'll bite, you know, because I am a bourbon guy, right? All right. So I'm like, okay, well, I can see peanut butter at that. Okay, sure, I'll give it a go. Oh, my God, it was horrible. absolutely horrible yeah i don't like it either and so you know so so uh i've been reaching out to to drew and ian you know intermittently like a lot of us right you know sending them dirty memes and you know making smart-ass remarks and and so on and so forth and um and so you know i was i was busting drew's balls about about screwball and how bad it was i was gonna make him pay me 28 bucks or whatever it was you know for that bottle or you know what have you just you know giving him a hard time. And, you know, it just, the whole thing, you know, just, it was a typical conversation with Ian and Drew. Right. And, and so I'm relaying the story to the guys and, you know, and I said, yeah, I said, you know, talking to, I'm talking, you know, talking to them, I'm going through the whole story and say, yeah, it's, and I said, you know, and it's exactly, you know, the conversation went exactly how you'd expect it to. Right. And in hindsight, because, because, um, I should say that, that Zach, when he edited the episode, put that at the end of like the, you know, sort of the filler at the, at the end. And so hearing it back, I can see how they got this way, but drew an Ian thought I was like, Oh yeah, that's went exactly where you'd expect it to go. Right. And so they actually got pissed off at me. Yeah. That's the wrong way. They took it all the wrong way. Oh man. They lit me up, man.
    50:52
    And in the meantime I'm going, no, that's not what I meant. It's like, no guys. Like I, I think you're awesome. I said, what I meant was it's exactly like you guys are legit. Like what do you, what you see and hear on the podcast is exactly who you are. Right. It's not, it's not a, I said, that's the way I meant it. I said, I can totally hearing it back. I totally understand why you, why you're coming to the conclusion that you are, but dude, I promise you that's not what I meant. And so, so I'm just feeling like absolutely horrible. Like, all right, well, these guys are never going to fucking talk to me again. Right. And, and so, you know, we kind of left it where they're like, uh, all right. but you know don't you know and i thought okay this is the last i'm ever going to hear from them and lo and behold fast forward i don't know like a month later and so i don't know if i got like a sympathy vote into the tribe or what it was but you know about a month later that's when i when i got inducted so i was like oh okay i guess i didn't piss them off that bad i love that well i think that you know you you're trying sometimes words are so easily misinterpreted in this world Right. And maybe part of it, too, is that you were approachable and able to get it resolved. Well, yeah, I mean, to me, to me, it was important that they understood my intention. And, you know, if they, you know, and they would have been perfectly in their rights to say, OK, fine, you're full of crap. I don't believe you. And just, you know, dismiss me. Right. But, you know, we we worked it out. So, you know, then obviously I'm super stoked about that because of all the great things of meeting everybody in the tribe. And it's just, you know, that's funny. It was what I felt pretty small that day, though. Like it was like, really? Yeah, well, well, it wasn't. But the thing is, it wasn't my foot in my mouth because I didn't mean it in the way that they thought. But, you know, the whole thing is you're doing this over, you know, Facebook Messenger.
    52:41
    Do they really believe me? Do they not? You know, it's hard to interpret for sure. Exactly. That's funny. Now, that is an interesting story. That's better than some of the other ones that we've received. Are you sure you just intentionally pissed them off in order to get into the tribe?
    52:57
    That's the fifth pillar. Ah, there you go. There you go. I'm breaking it open. Now everybody knows. Yeah, no wonder I'm in because I trash Drew all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Drew and I are really good friends. I spent an hour on the phone with him earlier, so he's given me permission to trash him, but I still think he sucks at pinball. but was that before or after chris you were on the one poor man's pinball podcast fan page zoom session oh yeah you know that's that's a good point i think it was after that that's a really good point yeah i'd forgotten about that that uh yeah yeah you're right because yeah the fact i actually messaged and said did you guys mean for this to go to the fan page and so i was the only person who showed up that wasn't in the tribe nice so now that you mention it tim that i bet that's what it was yeah because you were uh we had a good conversation with you that night and you know i i think that you know if that was after yeah you definitely it was a good fun night and you got along well with everyone so and another thing i wanted to say is we have a beer on the east coast it's yingling they make this hershey porter i believe jonathan hall posted a picture of it so you must you know you must be able to get it you know in other parts of the country But I don't like screwball at all, but if you take screwball and you drop it into a chocolate porter or any kind of chocolate beer, it is phenomenal. Oh, boy. Yeah. Well, yeah, because for me, you've got to cut the sweetness. So I could see how that would work, right, if you've got the Reese's peanut butter thing going on and, yeah, about to give that a shot. That sounds delicious. Yeah, it's really good. But Chris, we are glad that you insulted them and ended up making amends and got into the tribe because you've been a good addition to the tribe. Well, it's kind of a microcosm of my life. It's like a series of fuck-ups and recoveries, right? And that's just sort of how I stumble through life. Oh, that's the theme for you too, huh? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it seems to be a theme amongst the poor men in the tribe. But now you're helping them out with producing the show a little bit, right? I think you help out there as well. Yeah, so Mike Williams has been brunting most of the load. But, yeah, yeah, we try to help out during the show because, you know, what we don't want to have, we want to keep Ian and Drew kind of focused on the flow of the show, right? And Mike and I will pick out comments from chat and stuff like that. So, you know, so slip us a little cash and we'll get your chats in there more often than others. But yeah, we just wanted to try to just, again, do our own little thing to help out. Yeah, I'm a mod during the show, but I'm going to be honest. You know, with this show, you don't have to mute anything. So sometimes I just put Josh Mudd in a timeout for fun, and that's literally the only thing I do as a mod. Power tripper.
    55:52
    No, it's just fun to put Josh Mudd in a timeout. Don't tell him. Yep. no one puts josh mud in the corner i don't think so i don't think anybody could nope nope uh well thank you so much chris for being such an excellent guest tim as always thank you for being my loyal co-host yep thank you rachel thank you chris it was a good time yeah thanks for having me i really appreciate it and again thanks for for all the hard work y'all are putting into into this right i i look forward to like thousands of years from now whenever somebody finds this on the internet and they're wondering who the hell are all these people they're going to be able to finally figure that out. Sounds good to me. All right. Take care, everyone. Happy flipping. Bye.
    56:40
    Hello, Dottie. It's me, Pee-wee. Where are you calling from? Texas. Where? Honest. Listen, I'll prove it. The stars at night are big and bright. Wait, don't hang up.