Welcome Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is the conclusion. This is episode 36B. And my name's Martin and with me... It's Ryan C. Ryan C, how are you? Good, mate. It's a bit early in the morning, but we committed to this podcast. It's a thing that we do. And, as predicted in the last episode, 24 hours later, Iron Maiden has been revealed. And we felt it was a good time to get somebody on our show to talk about all things Stern and Iron Maiden. So welcome to the show, Zach Sharp. Howdy, guys. How are you? G'day. I'm good. I'm shocked that you guys called this title. I mean, I think it was really the best kept secret in pinball history. So kudos to you guys. I know. It took a lot of detective work to work that one out. We were up all night scouring through a lot of documents to find this. And, yeah, look, it's one of those things. And probably because it was such a highly sought-after title. People really wanted this thing. Yeah, well, it's funny. Me, personally speaking, I actually am not a fan of them. I never really heard any of their songs. But once I started playing Keith's game throughout development, I became a fan. I mean, sometimes the best themes or the worst themes, you know, Congo, Demolition Man, Shadow, you know, some of those awful movies. Well, actually, that's not true. I like Demolition Man, the movie, and I'm not ashamed to say that. But even like ACVC or Metallica, I'm not the biggest fans of their music. I mean, it's fine. But in a pinball environment, I think it's so much fun. So go figure. It's funny you say that because there seems to be a really big – not a really big divide, but I guess the people that have been waiting for this for like five years, someone that was on Aussie Arcade and said he's had his name down on the list for five years. I'm pretty sure you guys didn't have the license five years ago. Who knows? I don't know. I don't even know where I was five years ago. so it's crazy that there's so many people that are so passionate about iron maintenance and wanting an iron maintenance pin. And I guess the good news is the only kind of negative feedback, because there's always negative feedback in pinball and pin side, is that some people don't like the theme. If that's the worst thing about the pinball machine, then I think you're on to a winner here. I will take that win every day. Well, the rumors that we've heard is that the LEs have already sold out. Is that true? That's what I'm hearing. Man. So you better run to the hills if you haven't already. Oh, nice. Sorry, I'll be really cheesy with my jokes. That's number one up to this, number one. There are so many people that messaged me today saying, right, did you get in? Well, it's an interesting story for us because I know that we get a certain allotment that comes to Australia, and I'm on that list, but I don't know until I think the next 24 hours whether I actually have a spot. But if I have a spot, it is absolutely done. Buying in LA for sure. Do I have to buy you out of Game of Thrones for that to happen? Yep, you do. Okay, so the fate of your pin is in my hands. you know if you don't get one then you can use your your podcast cloud to kind of you know yeah champion yourself to get one do you know what the australian distributors don't even know that we do a podcast i don't think we haven't told them at all but what did i say to you marty i i messaged you this morning while i was watching this stream and what did i say about free time to say are you getting this are you sure you're getting this because if you're not getting this I'm getting it. No, I know. And you also said, I might get it as well. I'm like, dude, I'm getting it. Just relax. It's all good. Yeah. It was a weird feeling because I had absolutely no intention of getting it. And I was watching, I think I jumped onto the stream, the dead flip stream. And I kind of, I don't know when I got in, maybe 15, 20 minutes in where Keith was kind of like glass off, explaining the rules, which is kind of a first for you guys. and I was like, wow, this is pretty well thought out. And then he started playing the game and I was like, yeah, I really want to play one of these. It's so much fun. I mean, I was even joking, obviously not talking publicly back in October, but Keith and I met up in the finals of Pinball Expo and the winner gets a new unboxed Stern. So unfortunately I lost, but I was joking saying, well, if I won, I was going to get your game directly to Keith. I wanted your game. No, it's been fun. I know that the stream wasn't archived, but don't worry. We will be doing another one with Keith very, very soon and Jack with the same thing, the whole glass off, him taking us through his thoughts, his ideas behind the rules, and just how everything came together. Can you discuss the reason why that wasn't archived? Is that a licensing issue with songs? I wouldn't say a licensing issue with songs, but let's just say it is not approved to be archived live yet. Okay. So we will re-film when we have the official clearance to actually be able to have it out in the wild. Look, I was explaining that to a lot of people. There's actually different sort of licensing agreements between a live broadcast and an archived broadcast, which is considered playback. so exactly yep and you know iron maiden you know they're amazing to work with and you know they're very protective of their ip and how things are you know marketed and you know released to the public so um they've been fantastic to work with okay so can you then just if you can what you know of the history of this machine coming to all the way up to the release yesterday from when you sort of first saw it i mean i i think you know we both mod played it at um indisc a couple of years ago when it was back as as archer but what's the journey in your mind being um till the release when we saw the gameplay today i guess my my perspective is a little interesting um you know obviously keys is the best perspective uh but for me you know seeing the initial pictures of archer playing it at the banning or at indisc um in person and was just blown away by how fun it was and just telling him how man this needs to be made and this is you know before stern was in the pitch picture for either of us so when he got scooped up by stern you know secretly inside i'm just like as a pinball fan i'm like god i really hope they scooped him up and are using that layout and then my first day on the job of course you know keith's office and it's like yes it's happening you just walk into that room you walk into the secret room and you go right now that i'm an employee i get to find out all that you're making yeah well funny enough i i've had an nda for a bit even before i started working so i knew it was kind of in development when he got hired but But to actually see it in the flesh and see it progress has been an amazing journey. So what's it like being, I guess, like Stern's on this kind of like this, maybe it's called a hiring spree where they've got Keith and then they've got you, like currently the best pinball player in the world, the top-ranked player. And then they've gone and hired Tim Sexton. So, you know, you guys all play pinball together competitively at big tournaments in different states, but everyone in the US that's highly ranked travels a decent amount. What's it like working with, I guess, your friends, like your friendship group as part of your daily workday? Yeah, I mean, it is a dream job. I mean, I don't know how else to describe it without gushing, but it's so much fun. And to me, it's one of the best decisions Stern has made. in terms of hiring people who are passionate about the product. Because how often do you work and go to a job for something that you're truly passionate about and think about outside of the work office? At my last job at the marketing agency I worked for, not to say that I wasn't passionate about the work we were doing for my clients, But, you know, when I went home at night, I wasn't thinking about Otis elevators or Hewlett-Packard computers. No offense to those products. They're great products. But pinball is just – it's really special. Well, does it change your, you know, like that moment when you go home? Because I listened to the Coast to Coast interview with Keith Owen and Nate Shivers. And he kind of said, you know, when he goes home now, he's kind of done with pinball because he spent all day kind of, you know, tweaking his machine and playing it for, you know, maybe one, two hours that, you know, people invite him to a competition. He's like, no, I'm good. He's kind of all pinballed out. So now that your daily, you know, your workday is concentrating on pinball, does that kind of dampen the hobby a little bit for you or are you still the same level? I am still the same level. I mean, I don't really play or practice at home, even though I own some games. I'll play a little bit, but not really. I love going to tournaments when I can, and we have a monthly league that we go to. So outside of that, I mean, it really hasn't dampened my playing outside of the work office. Okay. Well, can I ask you then? So you can probably go through your collection as well, but what are the kinds of machines that you really like, I guess, to play for fun or to be in tournaments as well? I'm just curious to know whether you sort of like the stop-and-start, the flow games, the deep rule sets, the simple rule sets. What are you into? You know what? I like everything. I know that's really like a trite answer, but I love all pinball. Everything that's on the line at the moment, Zach? Is that what you're into? Yeah, yeah. I can officially say Iron Maiden is. For me, it depends on the mood. I always use the analogy, you know, what's your favorite restaurant? You know, do you always go to an Italian restaurant? Or sometimes you feel like Chinese food or tacos. Same with pinball. If I'm in a tournament, of course, I want the most controlled game because it gives me the best chance to win. in my mind versus something that is more chaotic or luck-based. Some of the older games have a little more of a luck component to it. But for me, playing for fun, I love the old games because I don't have to prepare myself to play for 30 minutes or an hour. I can just go up and play a three- to five-minute game and get all that enjoyment of trying to keep the ball alive, hitting stuff, having some cool stuff happen, and then I'm done. Well, so the reason why I guess I wanted to ask that is because what I really found, what I was hoping would be really interesting and it turned out to be really interesting was to have not just Keith design a machine because, yes, I played Archer and I remember walking away thinking that just flipped so well. it felt so good but what was what was particularly good today was a a top tournament player building a rule set from his mind and and it just felt kind of different and and fresh i guess a take on on a rule set is that is that what you saying as well oh yeah for sure i mean this was keith brainchild and it is just it awesome to see it come to life And you know I couldn be more happy for him and the team that put it together Zach, you mentioned before that, you know, it's nice to have a fresh kind of fresh blood at Stern and people that are passionate about the job. Now, does that coincide with all these kind of new changes with this machine? For example, the first pro with four flippers, the first pro in a while that has service rails put back on, all the changes with the alley having like four decals, shaker motor, you know, the JBL sound system. Does that coincide with Keith joining or is that just a general direction you think that CERN would have been taking anyway? I think it's a combination because you have a lot of and it's not just Keith but I mean I'll use Harrison Drake who is the engineer on the game with Keith and him doing his due diligence behind the scenes to see how some mechanisms can work or not re-engineering but I mean I guess I could say re-engineering some parts and components that are more efficient that can allow for other stuff to be added into the game so So I think it's all of the above. Okay. And it was in that video that was removed, but I think this is when I kind of joined in where there's a target that you can hit, but if you hit it by shatting the left in lane, it does something different. Can you explain that rule? Because as I said, it wasn't archived, so I just kind of caught the end of it. Sure. And like I said, people will go through the rules again, And hopefully I'm not misquoting it. But so I know for at least one instance, there's the four spot targets to light your 2X playfield multiplier, which is, you know, by the lit in lane. So say that you had three out of the four hits. So you just need to hit the one last one to light your playfield multiplier. if you had the ball on the right flipper and say it was that top super jackpot spot target if you shat the inline and hit the target it will spot that last one so it's an opportunity to kind of spot stuff that's harder to hit or whatever you're in it would help benefit you it's funny that kind of feature is put in by somebody that's very good at doing that and it appeals to people that are really good at doing that. I don't know how your chat sitting skills are, Ryan. Mine aren't so good. Yeah, after coming back from the US, I can do it with my eyes closed. Yeah, no, it's cool. It's kind of like an action button without an action button, right? Yeah. And that's the one thing I kind of noticed. When you look at the inserts of the play field, everything is there. And Keith mentioned as well on Coast to Coast that he wanted to kind of make it like a 90s game where everything is on the play field that you need to see. Yes, the LCD is integrated well, but you can look down at any point and you can see your progress towards everything. You've got your lock one, your lock two, you've got your power, your power inserts, your mode progression, everything, like the spelling mummy. Yeah, I mean, can you talk to us a little bit about that? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's actually something that Josh and I both are very passionate about. And this goes back to our days where we were game critics for PlayMeter magazine. When we would do our pinball reviews, one thing that we've always said and felt that all pinball machines should do is, if you have the game turned off, you should still be able to see, just looking at it, what you should be doing. So to your point, you see in the layout of the game, it's like, oh, well, lock one, you see different inserts and it's telling the story of what you're kind of shooting for and what your goals are. You know, spelling mummy, get this multiball. And I love games that do a good job of not relying on, you know, the LCD display or the dot matrix display or even the rules card to have all of your information. I love when a play field kind of tells the story. yeah what I also liked about the and that probably talks to the inserts and how the play field looks is that the rules are they're fairly deep but it's all laid out there at once it's not like you are forced down a particular direction there's multiple things you can be doing at once yeah which makes it very situational is it four or five modes that there is on the game um i thought i don't have the picture in front of me i believe it's five five so kind of like walking dead right yeah i guess walking dead yeah probably so so are you are you already looking at that and obviously you've probably played it as well but are you already thinking about strategies on how you'd blow this thing up well it's funny because um you know during the development of the game you know i would talk with keith and we'd just bounce ideas off of each other and, you know, with the other team members. And the one thing Keith really wanted to kind of dial in with his game is in something that like Lyman does really well with, you know, like The Walking Dead, for instance, is you're never out of it. So your strategy is constantly changing based on, you know, your status in the match. I mean, you could just play one mode in The Walking Dead or, you know, one mode in Iron maiden and just blow the thing up if you can execute on it so it's not like well i got to that multiball and i did terrible now i'm in jail and i have to grind my way back to something it's like you're always in it so at least for me just playing it i just have fun i haven't really had like the thought of all right well this is exactly what i'm going to do step one step two step three when I play this in a tournament just because it hasn't been in a tournament. It's funny, just being a tournament player, you don't know how to play it in a tournament until it's in a tournament because I'm not one that's really good at catching bugs and whatnot. It's like some people might do something this way and I'll witness it or watch what they're doing. It's like, oh, that's a good idea. I should try to do exactly that, but 1% better, so I beat them. Well, that's really interesting because I know that most of the exploits that have come from these B-Mobile machines has really come from the tournament scene. So there's probably some pressure on Keith. From Keith and me, that's right. From Keith personally against me multiple times. Right. So there's got to be some pressure on him to make sure that he's got it so balanced that people can't find these exploits. Unless he just saves one and he just waits to face me in a final and then he just takes it. So shatting the right lane instead of the left lane just gives you a 40 times multiplier. So could you talk to me for a sec about that bullseye target in the middle as a mechanical perspective? So is that a new mech or is that a tweak on an old mech? That's a great question. I'm just a marketing guy. It looks good. I'm not an engineer. But, no, I mean, I know it's similar to some of the old school games. So not even to bring up Wonelli or Past Blue Ribbon, but some of the old school games had those multiple target switches. So you had, like, the outer ring, and then you had the middle, like, pen or pin press. God, I'm really butchering this, guys. but he made it so it was like it was three different switches okay so cool yeah I haven't seen it on a new game before so it looks like a cool little thing to aim for and one last thing kind of about the layout and the rules unless you've got more money was there also a bit where he said if you shoot the inner loop kind of the inner loop from the right flipper with the other flipper down, the other upper flipper down it's worth more than if you hold it up that is correct which is funny because when I play I just instinctively kind of like when I'm on Twilight Zone or anything, I'll always just hold up the left flipper to open up that gap but it's funny, like nope he rewards you if you keep that flipper down that's funny, yeah I'm not sure if There's another game that does that, but it's almost like a mechanical risk-reward thing. How confident are you with a shot to make it 50% harder or whatever it is to get some more points? So that's very interesting. I'm sure it was a programming nightmare for Rick and the team, but in the end, I think we'll all be happy. Well, it's a baptism of fire, right? Getting Keith out as your first guy. So just probably as an overall with the development cycle again, what do you think was probably the biggest challenge getting the product to market? I don't know what I would say the biggest challenge. I mean, every licensor is different. So in terms of, you know, the expectations of like when you want to release and have something out to the public versus when you can, that's always challenging. Just because, you know, from my perspective and, you know, this affects more of my roles and responsibilities is always needing to be able to pivot if things change. You never want to be married to an idea of like, all right, this is the way that a game should be launched and this is exactly what's going to happen. because in the big scheme of things, this is just a pinball machine. And when you're dealing with licensors that are much more concerned with other things that are way more important for their business, it's just being willing and flexible to do what, in the end, makes the best impact. And so then just looking at the machine, we've obviously seen the pictures of the Pro. Yes. I don't know whether you can sort of release the information now, but will there be different art for the Premium and the LEs? Yeah. No, I mean, obviously you will see it when it's publicly available to release, but you can see it, read in the feature matrix. But, yeah, the Premium and LE have different art packages. On the play field or? TBD? TBD? that would be my non-answer but uh definitely um the back glass and cabinet yeah awesome well zombie yeti i think just even on the pro itself has just done an amazing job with the art it looks fantastic and and and i i'd said you know 24 hours ago that i really wanted to look at it because there are a number of different art styles that Iron Maiden have used over the years. It's evolved over time, and obviously they released Legacy of the Beast, the video game, and then it's a comic. So I was really curious to see what he'd actually do with the art style, and I reckon he's absolutely nailed it. Yeah. I mean, he is so talented. Right. Did you have much input in that, or was that with just like, you're the man, do what you've got to do? I mean, like I said, I mean, the licensor was definitely heavily involved. So, I mean, I'm sure, and I wasn't a part of those discussions. I mean, I definitely looked at the art during the development and everything. It's like, man, that looks so good. And then, you know, there's obviously going to be changes. Nothing's ever just accrued on the first pass. But just the evolution of the art and what, you know, the input from the licensor and everything that got updated and then finally approved. And I don't think it could have looked any better. Yeah, absolutely great. So from you and in particular your role as head of marketing and PR, I think it is as well, you've been with Stern for how long now? Since August. So if you do the math, I don't know, was that eight months maybe? Yeah. Yeah. So what do you think, you know, you in that role have really been able to sort of add to the whole way that these machines are presented when they're revealed? I think it a two answer to that So I mean obviously there the public aspect of it but I think for me some of my influence internally at OutHope has helped just in terms of you know going over to the product development side you know giving my input on you know rules ideas for design and stuff that more behind the scenes Yeah. And then, you know, with the whole Stern of the Union, just trying to have a little bit more of an open dialogue with the community versus just being silent as much as possible. I mean, obviously, there's always going to be everyone wants, you know, every answer right now. And if it doesn't happen right now, then it's a big like, what the hell? But, you know, I try to do as best as I can to be as open as I can as part of the company. Yeah, but a lot of people think it's really simple. We ask a question on social media, the company should respond. But once you put yourself in that position where you are communicating directly as frequently as you are, that's a significant undertaking. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I love this job. I've never been as busy professionally as I have, but I love it and I would not change a thing. Zach I'm guessing you've played the premium and the LE and there are obviously some small differences with the mechs that are on there do you think that it makes the game shoot significantly different or is it pretty much just the same but just with a slight variation I would say it plays a lot like the same but the mechs on the premium and LE are really cool I mean, I know the words in the feature matrix won't do it justice in terms of the interactive sarcophagus ball lock and the Newton ball inside the spot target on the side and the ramp diverter behind on the left-hand ramp. I mean, they're both really fun. If you're asking me which one would I choose between the two, of course, I'm going to say the premium. But it also depends on… Is that because the LE sold out? yeah exactly of course i'd say the la but yeah good luck um i like i said you know i'm not the biggest iron maiden fan and i'm sure for the more passionate base you know if that egyptian theme resonates more with them versus the pros um theme that might be a determining factor um i don't think you can go wrong with either i mean the game is so much fun yeah i agree and and look Again, looking at the Playfield art, it was just probably a challenge for him to be able to incorporate so many different art styles from the Iron Maiden back catalogue. And it just works really well. And the first thing I obviously notice is, you know, you've got the Egyptian theme and it's all sort of that power slave album sort of theme. Yeah. But it does incorporate, you've got sort of different sections that sort of correspond to other albums as well. So he's done a great job being able to integrate that. Yeah. I mean, you got the, God, it's so funny. You rewind, you know, five months ago and you say Eddie and I had like no idea. I was like, all right, that's peace of mind, Eddie. And that's cyborg Eddie and blah, blah, blah. I was like, okay. I'm going to end it right now. I made my kid cry today because I showed her the play field and I said, what do you think of this? And she just started screaming. And I said, okay, how about this angle? And because there's so many Eddies on there, every Eddie pretty much made her cry, which is job well done to Zombie Eddie. I was going to say, the shoot again one with the hand going through, I did say that. That was a good image. Yeah. Well, so then just going to you, okay. So you've obviously had a very good run tournament-wise, you know, over the last few years. You are still the number one ranked player. and by a few points, I noticed when I looked yesterday. What do you think have been your sort of favorite tournaments that you've participated in the last 12 months? I would say, I mean, by and large, Pemburg. I mean, I feel like if anyone answers that question and doesn't say Pemburg is like the favorite or best, biggest tournament, then they're lying or they haven't played in Pemburg because that tournament is just incredible. I can't believe they've you know increased to 840 people I know it's sold out in 45 seconds which I didn't realize at the time I mean I was at my computer you know at yeah what was it I forget the time whatever 10 a.m central time refreshing refreshing just like everyone else and you know put in my cart bought it it's like all right great you know confirm with Josh like Josh you got it Yep, cool. And then just seeing posts a minute later saying, it sold out. It dropped. And I was like, dude, did you see that? It sold out? It's like, oh, my. My stomach kind of dropped because it's like, oh, my God. That could have been me potentially not having access to participate. So it's awesome. It was almost me because I had mentioned on a previous blog, I had to admit to it, that I accidentally put the wrong ticket in my cart. And I thought, you know, that's okay. I've got a couple of minutes to be able to work this out. By the time I had taken it out of my cart, put the right ticket in, it had sold out. Were you able to get in? Yeah, I did. At the 15-minute mark, as everybody's cart started to expire because I had a 15-minute timer, that's when I got in. So I was very pleased. But I had that sick-to-my-stomach feeling because I think it was like 2 o'clock or something, maybe even 4 o'clock in the morning here. I'd waited up all night and had just done something so stupid. But anyway, I mean, so I will see you at Pinnacle. Absolutely. No, I mean, if I did not get in, I mean, I would join the wait list immediately and fly out and just stand there as an alternate to try to get in. Like, I will never miss that tournament. And so what other ones have you done this year that you've enjoyed? Obviously the circuit final last weekend and the Heads Up Championship. Well, so just on that as well, we do actually have a bit of a correction that we need to make. Yes. I'll let you make the correction. I'm just going to sit back and keep my mouth shut. Well, look, honestly, in our defense, everything over there is considered a major compared to him. But, you know, we sort of did get some messages. But the first message, I actually just want to play a message that we got about this. Yeah, this is Sheriff Tex Peckerwood of the Las Vegas Police Department. Still trying to find that Australian who kicked one of our boys in the bag. And I heard on your little podcast you said that Josh Sharpe won a major. Well, you stupid Australians. That ain't no major. it's a good tournament but Josh Sharpe ain't won no major oh that's awesome hey you know what if Jeff Teal if he keeps pushing the buttons you know Josh is the president of the IPA it's in his power He can just declare it a major and just kind of pat himself on the back. So, you know, you keep poking the bear. Just be careful, Jeff. Look, he got a giant belt. Surely that is worthy of being called a major. Sorry. No. You know what? I won that same tournament. It's not a major. I mean, it's a very big tournament. He'll get his name in the banners wherever the new pop-up facility ends up being. But it's not a major. Sorry. Sorry, Jeff. Still the favorite zone. But then straight after, you then won the IFBA Heads Up. So what do you think about that? I did. So I had never played in it before. So I, you know, I roughed matches before, and I felt like, man, that would be fun. I really want to play in it. So it was both Josh and my experience, our first time playing in it, and it is fun. I've never felt so much, like, adrenaline. in, that sigh of relief when you hit a challenge and you won. It's like, ah, you just take a deep breath after every single match. I've never kind of felt that playing pinball that intense, that quick. It's really fun. I mean, I don't think every tournament should be that way, but in terms of being able to handle 50-plus players and finish in one day at a reasonable time, I mean, I had a blast. That's awesome. And what was the prize today? It wasn't a – because I know Stern gives away a certain amount of pros, as you were talking about before. It wasn't another one of those, was it? It was a new-in-box game. Oh, there we go. So maybe we'll see if I can – it was maybe going to be a WWE LE. Maybe I can get Keith's game after all. We'll see. No, Bowen and I, I faced Bowen in the finals, and before we played, we agreed to a split. So we're going to, well, I guess I won, so I'll be responsible to sell the game, and we're going to split the money. Ah, okay. Do those deals happen quite often with top-level players and agree on the split before the final? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would say it depends on the discrepancy. So with some tournaments where, you know, first place is a game valued at five or six grand and then second place only gets 600, you kind of want to like hedge your bet a little bit. It's like, well, if you really don't want a game and I really don't want a game and we can both walk away with, you know, 3000 each, then yeah, sign me up. so does that um does that kind of take the pressure off the the tournament when when that happens i know you said you were excited and you had lots of adrenaline when you were playing but um does it make you even enjoy the tournament a little bit more um for me the the money does not mean anything i mean i i'll take it um i mean i'll use pinberg for instance uh the year i won and not that's not a way to rub it in josh's face or anything but uh well it is the the prize differences between first and fourth were like they're so huge that um i think it was a year prior um or it was like old papas there was like a good way of doing the split where the only person that really got affected by the prize difference was first place so it's like instead of winning 15 000 you won 12 000 where it's like she told me i'm winning 12 000 versus 15 000 like yes $3,000 is a lot of money. But at the end of the day, it's like I want to win. I want to get that trophy. I want to get my name in the banners. The money is a nice add-on. It doesn't add or remove any kind of pressure for me. I can't speak for other people. And so, look, I'm the tournament guy on the podcast, and a lot of people do ask me. I don't even know why they ask me, but you know how they can become better players. it's sort of been interesting for you because you've had pinball all your life um how does somebody catch up to how many years you've had playing pinball you know it's funny i a lot of people say like oh you know people who had pinball all their life they're just going to be better and you know that's just not the case and it's funny because i can use my best friends as like the perfect litmus test of that. So like, well, yes, I did grow up playing pinball. Ironically, I played more video games growing up. It wasn't until I was like a teen where I would play more pinball. But my friends, you know, I can look at all of them who have equal level playing field, no pun intended, of, you know, playing pinball. And, you know, some people just have natural hand-eye coordination and ability to, you know, play. Like a friend of mine who lives in Hawaii, I mean, he really only plays pinball once a year because there's nothing out there. And he comes out to Pemberg every year. And he is the best of my friends in terms of the ability of being a good pinball player Whereas you know I have another friend who plays a lot and he good but it like he can play and practice for the rest of his life And as long as my other friend plays you know here and out a little bit he'll always just be naturally better. So, I mean, it's no different than, I guess, like bowling or basketball. You know, if somebody is just naturally good at shooting a ball through a hoop, you could have somebody who's just not good and they can practice every day for their whole life and it's just not going to happen. But at least with pinball, it's fun, regardless if you're good or bad. And a lot of people I speak to, particularly of my vintage, a lot of people sort of had a bit of a break from pinball probably around the late 90s into the late 2000s. And it was interesting for me because I played pinball all my life since I was about the age of five or six. But I remember coming back from my probably about a 10-year break, that everybody played, particularly in tournaments, pinball very differently now than they did back then. Was that also the same sort of thing? But because you were playing all the way through, did you see a natural progression of play styles change over time? Or was it always like that for you? Oh, no. I mean, Josh and I always joke, but Lyman was our Yoda growing up. We had our local league, and he was the first person I ever saw do a dead bounce. So it was on Adam's family, you know, he'd shoot the chair. And instead of, you know, just shooting on the fly with the left flipper, Josh and I would watch him and he would just let the ball bounce over to the right flipper, get control. And it was like, oh, wow. Like never thought about doing that approach to, you know, playing. So it was just really cool. Like loop passes, live catches. I would say for my pinball play, I was always pretty decent on the junior side. And even when I was forced into the adult division, Kaylee George was the first person that I really saw consistently live-catching. And that was probably the last skill that I quote-unquote learned or tried to get better at. And, you know, I would not call myself a live catch expert by any means. But once I started implementing that into my repertoire, I guess you can call it, I noticed my results go up. So, I mean, just adding another tool to the toolbox and that just evolution of skills. I think nowadays it's incredible because you have streaming and everyone's able to see everyone utilizing these skills. and the youngins are picking up on it crazy fast. I mean, you look at Colin Urban, who almost knocked out my brother yesterday. He almost knocked me out at InDisc. You've got Alexander Kismarczyk, Escher, even the young kids who are getting older, Timothy Street, Joshua Joshua Henderson. It's incredible. I mean, I've never met him, but you have your own with Jordan Treadway, who's just demolishing everyone. There's a guy, there's a kid from Germany who's going to be in the Toronto IFPA World Championships. I'll butcher his name, but I think it's Johannes Ostermeyer. I mean, he's 15 and he's just like sweeping everything. It's awesome. I mean, it sucks for me, but it's awesome for... Because I think that's because they haven't had to go through the major changes that we've had to in our play style. That's how they've learned. And as you said, they've also got access to a lot of media that can show them how to play and they can just practice. Yeah. So before we move on, you're talking about the live catches and seeing it for the first time. I mean, with the older games, you have like a tap passing and shatting. You can shat to newer games, but it's a bit slower and possibly easier on the older games like EMs and solid states. Was that around when you were a kid or is that something that's newer? because I was trying to discuss it with somebody the other day. I'm like, who was the first person? Like, these old games weren't designed for shatting, but, you know, you can really blow up a game when you can, like, you know, like on Alien Star, we're talking about it, where you can shat to the right lane and 50x the spinner. I mean, funny enough, I mean, I know it was before his time, but I think there's a reason why it's called shatting the in lane. And, I mean, that's Neil. That's Neil Shatz, yeah. Ah, okay. He was the one that I saw doing a lot of that stuff, and I always joked, I always called it playing with your food. So, like, I would do it for fun, but similar to, you know, watching Lyman do a dead bounce, I wouldn't do it in a tournament because I was, like, too nervous that, like, I would let the ball bounce, and it'll just drain, and I'll look like such an idiot. So it took me years for, you know, myself and even Josh to, like, all right, screw it. I do this while I play for fun, and it works. I'm going to do it in a tournament. I don't care. And it's like, wow, it works in a tournament setting. So just getting over those nerves of trying to, you know, chat something or tap pass and just trust that it will work. I can't believe I asked that question because I remember I knew that answer. I remember watching it somewhere. So I also know that the Lazarus save is from the Bible. So thank you for that. Thank you very much. I don't know what else to ask, but I just got a message from – I know this is pivoting a little bit and changing the topic. We're not going to do Slam the Top 100 or a pinball quiz against Marty, but there's a quiz show in Australia called – Hard Quiz. Hard Quiz. Hard Quiz. Yes. And a friend of the show, John Carson, he appeared on it today. and I'm not sure if he's under NDA, but he's not letting me know if he won or lost, but he just finished recording. And basically, Zach, you get to choose your category. So you get to choose a category of expertise. And this guy is like a surgeon, right? It's what he does every day. Now, instead of choosing surgery and a specific part of surgery as part of this question, he chose pinball because he's passionate about it. And he's been practicing on Aussie Arcade. he's kind of started a thread saying, ask me as many like hardcore, obscure questions as you can about pinball. And he was wanting to learn all these kind of like special tidbits. So he let me know five questions just now while we were talking that he got asked today. And I want to see with your extensive, extensive history in pinball, if you can get them right. Okay. So do I get a lifeline? If I know this is not your friend. No, he'll let you down. Okay. What was the last game? I don't know this one, so you can just make it up, and I'll think you're right. What is the last game that Kordek had a hand in? Technically, well, I might be wrong, but I think it was Episode 1, Star Wars Episode 1. Okay. What comes up on the screen when you do a death save in Rocky and Bullwinkle? You get... I know you get points. I don't know what it... I don't know what it's called, or I don't know what the display effect is, but you actually get points for doing a death save. Okay. This is probably an easy one. It's nice and fresh. What was Escher promised when he won Papa? An ice cream truck. Yes, that's the one that I know. who was the Yeti on Whitewater modeled after? Dennis Nordman. Yes. And, uh, these questions they asked him on the show. Yes. These are fricking tough questions. No wonder it's called. I was going to say the Rocky and Bull one. That's a tough one. I mean, I think he's like wanting to get technical. Yeah. They must, they must have like some junior at the show that just Googles just insane. Like just, just we questions. Yeah. People trivia, like not on a main website. It is actually called, it is actually, so it is a game show and it's a quiz show, but there's two parts of it. It is called Hard Quiz because they deliberately ask very, very difficult questions. But, and if it gets aired, you'll see it because, you know, we love Dr. John. But the host of this show is a very funny comedian and he just pretty much takes the piss out of all the people that are the contestants. So they're not going to use like the NBA fast break trivia questions, I'm guessing. They are terrible. The last question... I don't even know where this would be written down, but what target do you hit to rescue Dorothy? To rescue Dorothy? The back... The monkey targets or whatever. I don't know what they're called. Winged monkey. Those two targets. The castle doll. That's great. Ah, okay. Hold to rescue, not to... Not to get a lock-in. Yeah. I can argue semantics on that One's to capture Dorothy the other's to rescue Dorothy Rescue, you've got to spell rescue and then shoot behind the doors Yeah, wow These are hard questions This is going to be good because we want to see pinball in the media, right? Zach, you've had a big involvement with that with news companies coming to CERN all the time and doing news pieces so this will be one of the first sightings of Pimble in the quiz show. So we'll make sure that gets taped and we'll upload it online when it airs because it just filmed a couple of hours ago. Yeah, shoot that my way. Do you have anything else you would like to talk about? No. Buy Iron Maiden. My marketing hat. I'm hoping to. Fingers crossed in the next 24 hours I find out whether I got in. Looking forward to that. Are there any exclusive head-to-head information that you can release that you haven't released yet? Come on, Zach. Give us something. We're desperate. I got nothing. Oh, that's awesome. Well, I'll actually get to see you at Pinberg this year. Awesome. And I am popping into Chicago after, so might stop by. I'll give you a factory tour. Yes. Fantastic. I didn't even have to ask. Well done. it's the podcast pulling power okay we're pretty much B-list celebrities these days so yeah B-plus oh thank you give yourselves a plus alright well we know you're busy you've got you've got this launch to still do so enjoy thank you thanks for having me on really appreciate you coming thanks man alright take care so there you go that was Zach Sharp from Stern Pimble. What a great chat. Yeah, that was our first Stern interview. Yeah, really good. I like what he's doing at Stern. Obviously, we really like Iron Maiden and we wanted this episode really to be dedicated towards Zach and next episode we will go into our impressions and you will also find out, did I get my Iron Maiden Limited Edition? You better. Yeah, I've been talking to a lot of people, and a lot of people are dumping machines, right? A lot of people were selling machines last week for this thing, but it caught a lot of people off guard. And people were like, holy crap, I need to sell this, this, and that to buy Ironman. So it'd be interesting to see what happens in the next 24, 48 hours, because not everyone is guaranteed a spot, I guess. I think 50 LEs possibly are coming to Australia because we usually get 10% roughly of the allocation. So, yeah, we'll see what happens. Well, there you go. Next week, you'll find. So, thanks, everybody, for listening again. And I hope you've enjoyed the two-part episodes this week of 36A and 36B. Maybe 36C tomorrow. We'll have an interview with someone else. Maybe Keith Elwin. Yeah. The doors are open now, right? We've got the keys to the city. We do. Thanks, everybody. Don't forget to, if you want to contact us, headtoheadpinball.com, headtoheadpinball at gmail.com, h2hpinball is our Twitter. Yeah, and thanks for all the votes for Roadshow. It's been making me very happy to see all those votes come in for Roadshow on Slammertop. Thanks, everybody, for your sympathy votes. Well done. All right. Bye. See you.