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BlahCade Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 15m·held·Nov 20, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

BlahCade discusses Zen's Mandalorian announcement and speculates on arcade cabinet evolution.

Summary

BlahCade hosts Chris Friebus and Jerry Morgan discuss Zen Pinball's announcement of a new Mandalorian table pack, based on insights from a recent interview with Mel Kirk (Zen's COO). They speculate on whether Mandalorian will be a single or multi-table pack, debate Arcade 1-Up's Gen 2 cabinet strategy including potential second monitors and Wi-Fi, and analyze competitive dynamics between Arcade 1-Up and AtGames platforms.

Key Claims

  • Zen Originals are significantly more profitable than Williams/Bally tables due to reduced licensing complexity and R&D costs

    high confidence · Chris Friebus, citing Mel Kirk's statements about Zen profitability strategy

  • Arcade 1-Up Gen 2 cabinets will feature a second monitor in the backbox as part of standard bill of materials

    medium confidence · Jerry Morgan's prediction based on AtGames differentiation and competitive pressure

  • Arcade 1-Up Gen 2 will include Wi-Fi capability and online leaderboards, likely at $50-100 price increase

    medium confidence · Jerry Morgan's speculation, noting AtGames is testing Wi-Fi with NBA Jam leaderboards

  • Attack from Mars Arcade 1-Up cabinet will be website-only due to lower brand recognition compared to Star Wars or Marvel

    high confidence · Chris Friebus, referencing retail strategy discussion with Mel Kirk

  • Toy Shock's planned Gen 2 cabinet with DMD screen will never materialize because Farsight has partnered with AtGames instead

    medium confidence · Jerry Morgan's opinion based on platform consolidation and competitive obsolescence

  • Zen Pinball will release Mandalorian as a new original table pack in the coming months

    high confidence · Mel Kirk confirmation on recent BlahCade episode; Chris Friebus interview notes

  • Mandalorian is likely a two-table pack rather than three or more tables

    medium confidence · Jerry Morgan's speculation based on licensing scope and character availability from Season 1

  • Williams tables have lost brand recognition relevance outside pinball enthusiast circles compared to contemporary IP like Mandalorian

    high confidence · Chris Friebus and Jerry Morgan, discussing retail/mass-market perception

Notable Quotes

  • “Zen Originals...you're still one license removed which is you're not having to pay for the Williams license and you have much more control over that license agreement”

    Chris Friebus — Explains Zen's strategic preference for original content and licensing structure efficiency

  • “It will be a Gen 2 release for sure...When they release a set of cabinets, it's going to absolutely have a second screen in the backbox, full size, as part of the bill of materials.”

    Jerry Morgan — Key prediction on Arcade 1-Up's next generation cabinet features

  • “Mel was only able to confirm The Mandalorian. And when pushed if that meant that we might finally get, you know, episode nine or would it be a table pack? Obviously, he said, I'm not even going to attempt to go beyond what I've been cleared to say.”

    Chris Friebus — Shows Mel Kirk's careful adherence to NDA constraints while discussing Zen projects

  • “No. [to whether Toy Shock Gen 2 will ever ship] Farsight have snuggled up into bed with AtGames, and they're very, very comfortable in that little bed that they've now made themselves.”

    Jerry Morgan — Declarative assessment of platform consolidation and Toy Shock's obsolescence

  • “They're not dependent upon, is this score display, is it a DMD? That second monitor can become whatever the heck Farsight programs it to be.”

    Jerry Morgan — Highlights AtGames' technical flexibility advantage from dual-monitor architecture

  • “Because it's what the market demands, and you know, they're already testing the waters. Like, AtGames are already doing the investigative work with their leaderboard solution for NBA Jam.”

    Chris Friebus — Notes AtGames' data-driven approach to feature validation before broader adoption

  • “This is what our show – we are not a – We are not a paid promotion show. not a paper we're not a promotion show generally in general we're a speculation show we're an opinion show we have our very strong opinions about things”

    Chris Friebus — Establishes editorial stance and transparency about show format and bias

Entities

Chris FriebuspersonJerry MorganpersonMel Kirkperson[name withheld pending review]personZen PinballcompanyArcade 1-UpcompanyAtGamescompanyToy ShockcompanyFarsight StudioscompanyWilliamscompany

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Zen Pinball officially confirmed development of a Mandalorian-themed table pack, marking entry into Star Wars spinoff IP

    high · Mel Kirk confirmation on previous episode; Chris Freebus states 'we got confirmation that we got brand new ones coming'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Zen shifting development focus toward original IP and contemporary licensed properties over historical Williams/Bally catalog

    high · Chris Freebus: 'Zen Originals...you're not having to pay for the Williams license and you have much more control over that license agreement'; Mel Kirk confirmed profitability of Originals

  • $

    market_signal: Mainstream consumer recognition heavily favors contemporary IP (Star Wars, Marvel) over classic pinball brands; affects retail strategy

    high · Attack from Mars cabinet planned as website-only; Chris Freebus: 'everybody knows the Mandalorian even if you're living under a rock...Belly Williams tables...there's not the brand recognition anymore'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Arcade 1-Up and AtGames in active competitive cycle; dual-monitor and Wi-Fi capabilities driving next-generation roadmaps

    high · Jerry Morgan: AtGames features 'driving innovations' and Arcade 1-Up will 'step up their game'; prediction of Gen 2 second monitor and Wi-Fi adoption

  • ?

    machine_intel: Arcade 1-Up Gen 2 expected to include dual-monitor backbox, Wi-Fi, online leaderboards, and price increase to ~$600

    medium · Jerry Morgan prediction: 'It will be a Gen 2 release for sure...absolutely have a second screen in the backbox, full size'; expects $50-100 price increase to match AtGames pricing

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.225

0:00
blockade pinball podcast this is the blockade pinball podcast i'm your host chris freebus aka shut your trap joining me as always halfway across the world jerry morgan good day folks well then very formal I know I was thinking that because I do this myself with things like that but obviously I've been doing that opening for I wouldn't say 200 episodes but it's been probably about 150 episodes I almost wish that because I don't have the time to do it but if somebody else wants to do it I want a super cut of like it starts off with one box and then two box and then four boxes and then like until there's just a myriad of the voices just doing that opening and see how consistent it is um yeah it'll be pretty consistent i think in most cases because i know me i just with the youtube channels that i watch that do that kind of catchphrases or i mean not that ours is a catchphrase just the opening but um that you start doing it along with them so yeah that's right even with like the same intonation and timing because it's so consistent. It's almost like they dropped it in, but it's not. It's actually live. Yeah, ours is always live. Go figure. And sometimes we mess up and have to start over again. But since it's at the beginning of the show, it doesn't really matter. That's why we put it here, just in case we do.
1:41
If I really wanted to go through all the footage, I'm sure that I'd find all the errors. The times that we were like, let's do a take two on that one. The only time I know that it's different is when we have a guest on, because it's almost like we feel like there's a pressure to just get into it. It's normally shorter or quicker, or there's a different tone to it, I've noticed. So if you go to the interview episodes, you'll notice a difference each time. Yeah. I hear it in post every time when I do the podcast side of things, so yeah. Kind of like how last time we had a guest. We did. Esteemed guest, Mel. Mel Kirk. And it was good to have him on again. Yeah, Mel's always a good time to have on, just because he's...
2:31
Considering he's the COO of the company, he's a pretty straight shooter. He doesn't couch... He doesn't talk around. There's not a lot of corporate babble with him. No. He just gets on with it. Exactly, exactly. So it's nice to hear a refreshing tone, and there's that sense of confidence of what the information that you're getting. And then, of course, if he can't say anything, then you can't say anything.

  • “Do you think that they are going to step up their game and actually come out with their second version model...Do you think that that is ever going to see the live day? No.”

    Jerry Morgan — Blunt dismissal of Toy Shock Gen 2 viability based on competitive displacement

    • Star Wars: The Mandalorian
    product
    Zen Pinball FX3product
    Attack from Marsproduct
    Jurassic Park (Zen table pack)product
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Gottliebcompany
    NBA Jam (Arcade 1-Up)product
    Golden Tee (Arcade 1-Up)product
    Rick and Morty (SE)product
  • ?

    business_signal: Farsight Studios partnership with AtGames solidifying; Toy Shock Gen 2 development considered commercially dead

    high · Jerry Morgan: 'Farsight have snuggled up into bed with AtGames...I don't think they're going to be doing that [Toy Shock Gen 2]'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Arcade 1-Up pursuing model of incremental cabinet releases rather than backward-compatible upgrades; each generation drives new purchase

    high · Jerry Morgan: 'They're very much going to see what the market will bear and incrementally do upgrades...It will be a full product upgrade. It won't be an upgrade...that you can install yourself'

  • ?

    technology_signal: AtGames and Farsight shifting toward locally-installed ROMs for pinball rather than streaming; technical necessity for pinball responsiveness

    high · Jerry Morgan: 'they're realizing very quickly that streaming isn't something that you do with pinball...all the new farsight titles...going to be downloadable roms that you can install'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Speculation about whether Mandalorian will be single-table or multi-table pack; community discussion suggests two-table most likely

    medium · Jerry Morgan: 'I lean towards a two-pack...it's just a gut feeling'; discusses licensing scope and content availability from Season 1

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Mel Kirk (Zen COO) noted for direct, non-corporate communication style; willingly admits information boundaries rather than deflecting

    high · Chris Freebus: 'he's a pretty straight shooter...doesn't couch...there's not a lot of corporate babble with him...if he can't say anything, then you can't say anything'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Dual-monitor architecture enables Farsight/AtGames to render DMD, backglass, and custom content flexibly; Toy Shock single-monitor approach now limiting

    high · Jerry Morgan: 'That second monitor can become whatever the heck Farsight programs it to be'; contrasts with Toy Shock's score display constraint

  • ?

    content_signal: BlahCade establishes transparent editorial stance: opinion-driven speculation show, not paid promotion; heavy host bias acknowledged

    high · Chris Freebus: 'We are not a paid promotion show...we're a speculation show...we have our very strong opinions about things...take everything with a grain of salt because it's highly biased'

    • 2:52
    Well, yeah, and he tells you. He goes, no, I can't really say that. So we thought, since that was what our last episode was, that maybe we should interpret a little bit of what was said in that.
    3:09
    Because it's one thing for us to speculate amongst us. It's another thing to speculate with the guests sitting there who can't nod or give a hint. Yeah, it gets to the point where it's almost like a poker tell, really, isn't it? Like, you say something to him, you just watch the eyes. Right. Or you twinge in the eye to go, oh, there we are. I got you there. As they sit there going, why am I still here while you're doing this?
    3:39
    So let's kind of dive right in. We're going to dispense with the banter. We'll save it for later, maybe. I'm going to tease apart the interview. as we do with blockade speculation.
    3:53
    The thing that I most wanted to kind of dive into was our little discussion about The Mandalorian. Which is big news. New original tables, right? How good is that? A lot of people have been wondering what Zinn's vision is with that. And here we are. We got confirmation that we got brand new ones coming, which is awesome. Right. And so, obviously, Mel was only able to confirm The Mandalorian. And when pushed if that meant that we might finally get, you know, episode nine or would it be a table pack? Obviously, he said, I'm not even going to attempt to go beyond what I've been cleared to say. So, Jared, putting on your speculation hat, do you think Mandalorian is going to be a single table pack or do you think it's going to be more? it's going to be an interesting one isn't it because mandalorian is is a individually licensed show right it's a netflix production correct no it's a uh disney plus production plus i knew it was one of those like please insert streaming service here i don't know which one says too many these days right um but you're right disney plus they have all the things so it is within the same house as um star wars correct um so we'll be licensed probably around the same you could say you know probably kick it over the fence and say yes you know it's probably licensed around the same area so yeah you could you could suggest that there could be something else released with the pack but they they have zen do have precincts where they've done single packs before we've got Halls or when we got The Walking Dead, which are just single-table packs only. Because on the one hand,
    5:41
    with Mandalorian, that'd bring the Star Wars packs up to 20 tables. Yes. If you add more, now you're back into, uh-oh, now we're doing others, beyond the 20,
    5:57
    but would they necessarily step outside of Mandalorian for licensing purposes because it would be fun to just say, hey, this is the Mandalorian pack, and therefore would it be themed like, much like what they do where they'll do an offshoot or spin-off table.
    6:16
    Right, right. So, would it be just that, and then again, are we talking about one additional table, so it's a two-pack,
    6:25
    or would it be a three-pack? I mean, lean towards a two-pack is what I'm kind of sensing. Why do you think two?
    6:36
    It's just a gut feeling, more than anything. I've got a problem in that I have not seen The Mandalorian season one yet.
    6:42
    So I'm running on no information about what content could be in The Mandalorian. Right. It's essentially like me going and playing the Rick and Morty table, which has just landed at Netherworld, by the way. I have no prior art with that game. I won't get any of the in-jokes. yeah and and i i've only seen the first season i haven't seen the second season even though it's airing right now i'm waiting for the whole thing to drop before i view um you like to do it like that friendship yeah if it's out well there's two factors involved in that the first being that yes i do prefer to just binge it all out if it's going to be if it's telling a singular story over 10 episodes then yeah i just want to binge it out that way but the other reason is that i don't actually subscribe to disney plus so and i do the same thing with amazon i don't subscribe to amazon but like once a year and so then i'll just cram everything that's i'll get my i'll get my dollars worth so you would literally go i will subscribe for the month and i'll just like binge watch 10 hours of tv a day so i can get up caught up to speed with all the different episodes that i've missed yeah pretty much that's how it works a good way of doing it you know like it's essentially like paying for the series well it's not even that a month's worth of Disney Plus is like what 10 bucks just Disney Plus is I think $4.99 in the US $8 here because I did the same thing with HBO for the final season of Game of Thrones because I always purchased them on Blu-ray that was when I would finally watch them but I knew there was no way I was going to be able to avoid spoilers from the time season 8 ended to the time it came out on disc so I waited until the final two weeks of it and timed it so that I, because there was a seven day trial so I timed it so that I hit the one episode and then ended the trial on the last day of the episode and I was able to stream all the prior episodes up to that point so I was good on that. What I'm trying to get away on hey tangents um winning blockade style that's right is that because i haven't seen second season and the fact that there's going to be a couple of months before uh zen even puts out this pack from the time that season two ends the mandalorian it's very possible that there's other characters that have popped up that they decide to do an offshoot table of related to that but based off of the first season, it doesn't feel like there's enough characters that would want an extra like an offshoot table. Exactly.
    9:37
    Yeah, so that's kind of my guess. And the fact that he was cagey about me, Mel didn't even want to say whether it would be included as part of FX3, which it's going to be part of FX3.
    9:52
    I would think so I mean look they have in the past we know this they have gone and licensed separate apps to get extra exposure in the app store yeah they've done that with Star Wars I mean that's why we see these offshoot packs now because it gives them the flexibility also to try out new things in those packs as well and certainly for the mobile market I see it yeah I think if it comes out on mobile it will be probably standalone absolutely then zen like zen pinball on android like it's it hasn't received any new games um for ages now like it's they now concentrate on those packs the brand of packs because that's what the uh the license stores want now they want that extra bit of um exposure on the app store with their product trademarks and graphics all over it that's how they want it now. Well, I'm trying to think because other than the Williams tables,
    10:53
    the last packs that were delivered were the Jurassic Park tables. And I don't, you're right, I don't know if, they didn't get, they didn't get their own release on mobile. Jurassic Park didn't. I don't know if it's actually part of the Zen store. I should look. Here, kill time, Jared. Yeah. I don't, it's weird because they sort of stopped doing it because I don't think they did it. They did do it for Doom, I'm pretty sure, right? Yes, Doom.
    11:26
    It's the Bethesda pack. So Skyrim and Fallout and Doom. And Aliens also had its own pack. Standalone pack, yeah. I think those two were the start of this whole idea of releasing new packs with subtly different features in it. Well, Star Wars Spinball also had its own app. yes that's right on mobile for the same reasons because they want to try they want to try those different things in those apps they just can't do it it's bundled within the same major ecosystem like zen pinball on android they they need those separated packs to be able to try unusual things um i have a feeling that wasn't the mobile version of star wars the one where they introduced the light and dark side of the force was that only on switch no there was uh so the mobile app had an early incarnation of that and then it got refined for the switch even more that's a classic case of experimentation yeah in in the wild yeah so so yeah looking looking at the uh the zen pinball app on my phone uh if you go under the universal tables jurassic park not there jurassic park has its own tab. Ah, yes. That's right.
    12:47
    So, I mean, the app has been updated to get that. Yeah, that's good. But that's been a while. It has been a while. Yeah, for sure. So it's very possible that rather than Mandalorian going to the Star Wars tab, that Mandalorian will just have its own tab then.
    13:05
    Probably will. If they're going to be offering on mobile. Until they do something about mobile. Yeah, they really need to update the Zen.
    13:15
    I mean, I don't know if you guys remember this. Back when FX3 first came out, and we had an interview with Mel,
    13:26
    so that was, what, 2017 or 2018? Can't remember, but anyway, he had said that, ah, yeah, we're going to be updating the mobile app to FX3 quality so that everything is communicating and talking with each other. Synergy, as you'd say. And it never happened.
    13:49
    Just never came to be, unfortunately. Never did. And then Williams came along and really just put the halt on any development whatsoever on the Zen Pinball app for mobile stores.
    14:04
    Yeah, it sort of stagnated. But there will always be a reason for these sort of things. Who knows? there might be a big new mobile app in the works you know it's what we just don't know about yet i still prefer to be all under one uh one umbrella but i think most people do they don't like to switch between apps it's easy enough on a phone it's more it's more of a pain in the butt when you're uh on a console or pc yeah it just takes a extra extra step of time uh okay so there was there was that little bit of of just with the mandalorian but mel also was saying that they are wholeheartedly still going to be doing zen originals and there is no bones about it why because they're profitable for them very profitable way more profitable than the belly williams tables particularly those alpha numerics yeah when you when you spend that time that much R&D making them come forth yeah that's a lot of development time that you've spent but the Zen Originals even if they're licensed Zen Originals you're still one license removed which is you're not having to pay for the Williams license and you have much more control over that license agreement let's be serious it's a lot more popular property like everyone knows the Mandalorian even if you're living under a rock you've at least heard of the name so you know a lot of the Belly Williams tables, like people know Pinball and Belly Williams but there's not the brand recognition anymore because it's not part of the zeitgeist. Well I think that's why in the case of the Arcade 1-Up cabs that the Attack from Mars cab is going to be website only and not in stores because there's gonna be a lot of people that have no clue what attack from mars is but everybody knows what star wars is and everybody knows what marvel is i think you did on the money there uh that's yeah that'll be why it's a site only which is it's it's a bit of a a sting to me because they walk up into the store and get a really cheap one when they go well there's that but but also just no i mean as pinball fans that we are you know those are religious artifacts yeah they are and the idea that people just would go no Star Wars you know it just it's kind of hurts but you know it is what it is right yeah we know why we don't like it but we know why so what that was the interesting the little tidbit that he throw in there when because the same i mean if if attack from mars isn't name brand recognition you know paranormal and and you know the these wholehearted tesla tesla yeah that that's not going to garner attention at all so it was interesting for him to say that those might wind up making it into cabinet form but as padding for some of these other titles. Exactly. Because like if you did just have a Jurassic Park machine and you weren't able to throw the other Universal tables onto it, great, so you've got three tables, now you need seven more. What would you put into something like a Universal pack? Like what out of those Zen Originals would make sense to put in alongside Jurassic Park? like it'll be it'll have to be some sort of science fiction theme right because essentially it's not well kind of that's what jurassic park is sort of science fiction um but it's a bit of a long bow to draw really isn't it like i don't think you i don't think you try to theme it at all i think you literally just go jurassic park jurassic park plus seven more tables yeah I mean seriously think about the toy shock machine and the at games machine are they clamoring to say that it's Gottlieb tables and it's these no it's black hole and haunted house because those are the only two things that anybody recognizes Yeah or anyone who wants to recognize me got leaked Let be serious Right Yeah because if you put Bonebusters out there people would be like well, what the heck is that? You know? Yeah. And if you put Class of 8 and 12 in there, they'll go, no. Nope. You know anything about Gottlieb's angels. So, yeah. So, yeah, it was just interesting knowing that even the Zen originals aren't off the table for being put into one of these cabs. But yeah, they'll probably just be used as filler.
    19:20
    But he didn't drop any hints as to what that table pack that they've been working on forever contains.
    19:29
    Yeah, it's going to be surprising to see what it looks like next year. I don't really have any preconceived ideas of what it will be. again because I don't really have a lot of knowledge of the franchise. So it's going to be new and shiny. No, I'm talking about the real Zen Originals. Oh, sorry, the Zen Originals. Yeah, so I mean, I still say that it's going to be Operantia and Dreadnautical and probably Castle Storm. Well, it might be Castle Storm 2, but I don't know. We need Disco Dodgeball Pinball. Come on. It's just the most obvious thing to make a pinball out of. Why don't they do it?
    20:07
    I've said that or infinity golf like yeah infinity golf is another classic pinball trope that you could do like golfing pinballs are great except for t-dog yeah except for yeah except for like there's so much intellectual property that could be turned into like that but the thing is though those are not i mean sure they're brands because they're zen brands but do they have the i guess the brand recognition that would be needed right yeah sure that'd be great for the the fx3 ecosystem it'd be welcome with open arms but i just wonder you know it it might work like if you were looking at those ones to put alongside another cabinet of zen originals if they start building up those newer ones and then put all those into like a makeup pack that would make more sense but i don't really think at this stage things like tesla and um paranormal and stuff like that would really stand up to critique against some of these newer tables like uh jurassic park well i will say that we're not going to see paranormal until we see a bonsai run yeah that's right so with a full with a full real back glass or another monitor for the back glass yeah i think until you get to there Yeah, there's no point in putting Paranormal in. Since they haven't done Banzai Run, there's no point in going there either. No, there really isn't. And that would be, you know, that's a nice play into the Gen 2 of these cabinets, right? Like, they're going to get to the point where it becomes an at-game style product with two screens in it. Like, two actual full screens in it. Let's actually talk a little bit about the cabinets. A lot of information has come out since we last, I mean, go to the podcast right before episode 207. So before Mel.
    22:12
    It was like people kept it used forever. Right, right. And since then, we've gotten even more news that is confirmation of stuff, confirmation of titles, things of that nature. So obviously, Mel wasn't able to theorize what Arcade 1-Up has up their sleeve. but you've got to believe that the competition is going to drive certain innovations. So here's what I want to – let's play a little – again, we're going to do some speculation this episode, folks.
    22:44
    For those of you that are new subscribers, hi, thanks for joining us. We've gotten quite a few of you. Well, hey there.
    22:53
    This is what our show – we are not a – We are not a paid promotion show. not a paper we're not a promotion show generally in general we're a speculation show we're an opinion show we have our own opinions our very strong opinions about things and we're going to tell you all about those opinions yes so uh take everything with a with a grain of salt because it's highly biased um so here's what i want to here's one i don't want to throw out toy shock in general so it's what yeah is that do you think that they are going to step up their game and actually come out with their second version model the second version model was that was going to have a dmd on the screen rather than having the uh just score displays that the current uh general was going to have and would have the remaining got leap tables that weren't Well, I mean, they were saying they were going to have all 22 Gottlieb tables, but if they weren't, it's basically that the tables that aren't on their Gen 1 are all the tables that are DMD tables. That's right. So that was going to be their plan, was to come out with a Wave 2 that was going to have a DMD screen on it and do that. Do you think that that is ever going to see the live day? No. Next question. Okay, so why... And why is that? Because they've been trumped. There's better platforms out there now. Farsight have snuggled up into bed with AtGames, and they're very, very comfortable in that little bed that they've now made themselves away from, I think, Toy Shock. Okay. So I don't think they're going to be doing that. Farsight have just shifted camps pretty much.
    24:40
    So AtGames obviously has that second monitor. Yeah. which would allow them to basically, they're not dependent upon, is this score display, is it a DMD? That second monitor can become whatever the heck Farsight programs it to be.
    25:00
    That second monitor, do you see that becoming something that Arcade 1-Up will then adopt sooner rather than later, or will it be a wait and see for the Arcade 1-Up cabs? it will be a Gen 2 release for sure. Wow. When they release a set of cabinets, it's going to absolutely have a second screen in the back box, full size, as part of the bill of materials. And do you think that's going to be the same price point? Or will they obviously then have to raise the price? It will be more expensive. so maybe by the $50 so that it's the same price as at games. Cause right now those cabs are four 50, uh, or excuse me, five 50 at games is a 600. Yep. I think they will, they will feature match and price accordingly. So when you say feature match, you're also saying that you think gen two will have wifi.
    26:00
    100%. That's like, they already like, you can derive from what Mel and, and John Dynamon are saying that they're doing it very carefully the first time around, but you can almost guarantee that they're, at the moment, negotiating with their license holders to say, hey, is that okay if we actually do Wi-Fi leaderboards online store in this product? Because it's what the market demands, and, you know, they're already testing the waters. Like, AtGames are already doing the investigative work with their leaderboard solution for NBA Jam. so they already have test case out there in data to help them make that data driven decision about whether it's viable or not and yes we know that John has confirmed in the past that you can chuck wifi in there but you know you've got to have the ecosystem surrounding it to make it work and that's the expensive bit but that's the direction they need to go because all the other markets like AtGames say what you want about them but they do actually have a very good ecosystem you can plug into right that's that's their strength actually yeah product spring yeah that's their market differentiation so if at game not if um okay why not want to step into that same level as at games and they may not for strategic reasons if they do though they need to actually start adding capabilities into their products now i wonder i've been wondering for a while if the boards that are being shipped in the Gen 1s don't already have the module in it already and it will be activated by a Wi-Fi update like a USB update I'm just really curious because if they know that that's the direction they want to go in and they would have been planning out Gen 1 and Gen 2 you can guarantee it right like if I was doing it and if i knew that when gen 2 came around i'd have all these customers wanting to like get upgraded boards for their games i would be future-proofing that board now with the understanding that i'm going to be adding wi-fi almost certainly in generation 2 and that wi-fi module would be just off or just not catered for in the software and when the software then supports it it just magically starts working you know i don't think i'm as optimistic as you don't think i don't i don't and the reason why i say that is based off of what they've done with their arcade cabinets um they have to date they have nba jam and they are doing my thing marvel Silver's Capcom, I think, is getting the Wi-Fi put in.
    28:54
    I don't remember if... I don't think Golden Axe has it or not, but they for sure are talking about Golden T.
    29:05
    They're not talking about retroactively being allowed to upgrade your old cab to incorporate that. I mean, you'd have to literally buy the whole brand new board and that's not going to be a cheap little piece, an add-on.
    29:24
    And there's going to be probably enough improvements to something like Golden Tee for the cab itself, considering I think that was a Wave 1 cabinet for them, that those owners might very well want to just plain upgrade completely with a whole repurchase. the... So I think that they very much play to what it needs, like, what increments can they do that the customer base is cool with.
    29:59
    They're still going to have to figure out yeah, are you going to be able to add games or not? And I think in the case of the Star Wars cabinet, you're only going to be able to add Star Wars games. With the Marvel cabinet, you'd only be able to add Marvel. With Attack from Mars, you'd only be able to add Williams.
    30:17
    Because, why is that? This is their model. This is their business model. They want to sell more and more and more. Look at how many Pac-Man releases they have. And they keep on releasing Pac-Man in various incarnations. And you would think that the public would be sick of Pac-Man, and yet people still are buying these cabs.
    30:38
    Because it's a slightly different product offering, like different games on each one. Different games, the monitor is better, the buttons are a little bit better, etc., etc. Yeah. You know, certainly if we look into my claims that yes, the next one will absolutely have a second screen, then that would not fit in with that module board already having Wi-Fi on it because that would make it... Well, number one, the cabinet that we have now that's being released and sold now doesn't support the second cabinet, and I don't see them... Sorry, it doesn't support the second monitor. So I wouldn't see them going, oh, look, you can upgrade your existing box and put a new monitor in it. No. They'd just make a new one, because that's just too hard. So even though Mel says it's easy enough to swap the boards out, that's not something that an average consumer would actually care to do, I don't think. I mean, I'm just going to say, do you know how much the lit-up marquee is?
    31:37
    If you want to buy a lit-up marquee, it's 80 bucks for just a lit marquee just with a led yes in the back of it yes really yes wow so that's a severe piece of non-tech you know i i think that they're very much going to see what the market will bear and incrementally do upgrades and put things in. It will be a full product upgrade. It won't be an upgrade, like a hardware upgrade that you can install yourself. Correct. So I think if... Brand new box. I think if anything, you're going to see Wi-Fi the next wave.
    32:23
    As for a second monitor, I think that would be not until a third wave. I think that my opinion is the market's that hot at the moment. that it will be in the next wave. That's my prediction. Let's mark this episode.
    32:39
    This is the prediction. So, knowing that at games is kind of driving in terms of, hey, we've got a second monitor, hey, we've got Wi-Fi, downloadable games, and that we think that's going to drive what Arcade 1-Up does, what is Arcade 1up doing that you think will drive AtGames? That AtGames is going to go, ooh, we need to adopt that.
    33:10
    That's an interesting question, which I haven't given a lot of thought to. Let's see. Well, I think what I've seen in the AtGames forums, I mean,
    33:25
    they're looking, with all the Farsight games, to have everything locally installed so i think they're realizing very quickly that streaming isn't something that you do with pinball um so they're looking at um i think all the new farsight titles that are being produced for that games are going to be downloadable roms that you can install onto the hardware you're talking about all the the tato games or tato how do you pronounce it it's probably tato the the tato titles that uh farsight we're assuming is going to be working on. Yeah, I think there's a few other ones too. They might be bringing in some other Farsight tables as well that will be going on there. Like what? I don't know. They're not being super revealing. Well, no, but what I'm saying is what other Farsight tables beyond Stern could they bring in?
    34:19
    Well, when I mean that, I think not all the tables are available yet on the platform. So I think they're releasing them incrementally. so all the ones that Farsight have made like all the Gottlieb ones well yeah but okay so Jared may not be aware I made videos of all the tables that are going to be available on all the various cabinets and I guess I have not made one I haven't done one about Gottlieb look for that folks I guess I'm going to have to be doing that the 22 tables the two that are not going to be included are We did talk about this, the original version of El Dorado and Big Hurt.
    35:04
    Wait, is it Big Hurt? Big Show? Big Hurt? Yeah, Big Hurt. The baseball one. But other than that, there's only 24 Gottlieb tables total with those two included. So take those out, 22. There's the 22 that are going to be included. Beyond that, you have, I think it's 16 or 18 Stern titles that I don't think they're going to be allowed to have locally installed in cabinet mode.
    35:37
    Well, maybe not. Because I don't think, well, and I say that because I don't think Stern wants them to. And when Arcuda, when they were doing the whole Arcuda thing, the Stern tables were specifically not converted. Yeah, they were excluded.
    35:53
    And beyond that, Farsight doesn't have any tables. Yeah, true. Well, I think what they've learned, like if we cycle back to the question of what will, what is at games taught? What is, okay, what I've taught at games. I think in general they're going to try and make all the pinball games first class citizens on the cabinets so that you can actually play them locally I think potentially as well this might be a byproduct but what I think is that because arcade went up the hardware and everything on there is designed to work like one-to-one with the um the games that are installed on it giving it a better overall experience like you know the the solenoid feedback and the accelerometer tilt and stuff like that one thing that's missing on at games is the fact that if you bring your own pc and plug it in um you lose accelerometer tilt and you lose um uh well they don't even have haptics so So they, well, do they? I thought they said that they had solenoids, but they haven't said how many. Yeah. Let's assume they had solenoids, but I'm pretty sure that the non-native titles, so the ones that aren't Farsight, you don't get that. No, they would have no way of communicating that information. So that would be something that, if they really wanted to make the product very good.
    37:29
    So you saying with what games would want from would learn from what the market is asking with regards to what Arcade 1 has put out is that one connection that is truly communicating and working 100 as dedicated with those tables that are built into it Yeah, really offering a first-class experience. But you don't think there's going to be anything that they want from cabinet design or... I guess that's really what it comes down to, cabinet design and hardware design.
    38:06
    Well, this is a problem. I think for everything that AtGames is, they're probably the cabinet, honestly, that is going the right way in the market. like they're offering things that like at a pretty good price point let's be serious that most cabinet builders expect so they expect that back glass they expect a dmd that's separated which you know both products have but that that back glass is the thing that people are really getting the most excited about with the at games product okay so i actually think from a from a hardware product offering i think actually arcade one-up have some catching up to do with that games i'm not suggesting that the at games game ecosystem is in any way superior to the arcade one-up at games ecosystem uh well the arcade one-up games that are being offered but they do have the advantage that they must have done some market research different to arcade one-up or had to make some decisions based on price point etc about what they wanted to produce because like really that cabinet design aside there might be some tweaks they can actually make to the cabinet design which i think flattening it out like arcade one-up has done and recessing the screen does seem to make it look better i'd need to see it in person but it feels a little bit more pinball like doing it like that so yeah there could be some cues they could take from arcade one up about cabinet design but really the overall layout of what they've got is more down the line of what a more pinball enthusiast would expect in the cabinet and the thing that is intriguing is that with the attack from mars wave they're the thing that would be really nice and they i mean this comes down to why they wouldn't have included um safe cracker in the list of tables, even if they have or haven't already, because you need that back glass, right? Oh, yeah, you're not kidding. You absolutely do need that back glass. So that's really, before they go down any of those tables, they need to look at that back glass. Even Cyclone. Oh, not Cyclone. No, Cyclone. Well, Cyclone has the little spinning. It doesn't really matter much, but it does have the spinning disc. It's still a thing. Junkyard has a couple of lights that go up, but Junkyard is coming out as part of the pack.
    40:46
    So that's going to be interesting, how they're going to handle that. Yeah. So, yeah. A little reality is going to have to be altered in terms of what you're... Hey, why is the back glass now suddenly where my table is?
    41:01
    So let me just ask, is the Attack from Mars table up for pre-order yet? Honestly, I don't know. I've only heard that the Star Wars and Marvel table have been put up for pure order. Hmm. Interesting, hey? I wonder why that might be.
    41:21
    Jared's got that Captain Aether Canary look. Why, Jared? Why? What are you not... I don't know what you're speculating on here. Based on our discussions that we just had then, there's something fundamentally missing from that particular range there's a technical limitation that they they need to solve potentially unless they manage somehow to zoom in on an element of a back glass into the dmd and show those elements that are on the screen that you need to actually select from like in junkyard for example um or they just you know do the thing and just use that break the illusion and use the main screen to flick up to the back glass which is just going to look really rubbish let's be serious like that's not going to be good in a cabinet um they've got potentially something they're working through right now to potentially test the market on what a two-screen device would look like that's my goal all right jared jared's uh he's got some bold predictions this episode he's going out on a limb. Well, if we're going to speculate, let's not stuff around. Let's get into this and let's really throw some wild ideas out there. So we've covered now the fact that neither AtGames nor Arcade1Up want anything from ToyShock and their cabinet. That ToyShock is probably going to walk away from this whole venture because it's just not worth jumping into the fray. That leaves Well Played Arcade. Well Played Arcade, who has the Zachariah tables, does not have a display of any type. But they do have Wi-Fi, and they do say that they're going to have a store that will allow you to purchase and add tables to your collection. Yeah. So, is there anything other than that store that either two biggies would want from Well Played?
    43:31
    No. It's not really a great cabinet. Do you think that Well Played is going to have a second wave that will have a monitor, or do you think that they're going to go the way of Toy Shock?
    43:51
    I'm not sure. I mean, let's look at the facts. It's like Zachary or MajorPixel does have a cabinet mode in their game. Yes. It is only on Steam, and you can guarantee that they're using an Android build. In fact, probably looking from it. No, they confirmed it is an Android build. So you can pretty much guarantee they wouldn't be doing a lot of software modification to that build because it would be too costly, given the size of the studio. so I don't think that they will have a second wave I think that they will do exactly what Magic Pixel has been renowned and have done very well up to this point, they will exploit the form factor of the cabinet to its maximum degree and they will do everything they can on that cabinet to jam in all the games that they have inside the Android build, and that will be what you get. I think they have one shot on this. I think they've already made their decision about what they want. It's a very affordable cabinet. It's probably on the cheaper side of things, so it will cater for a different market.
    45:05
    And if I was to have a Toy Shop cabinet or one of these, it would be a tough choice. But if we're looking at the range of games that will eventually become available on this cabinet, it probably would actually be the well-played because you just have more longevity in it. It'll give you more bang for the buck. Yeah.
    45:25
    My only thought would be to address the display issue. They also have the small form factor cabinet. They have the tabletop. And I think that they're going to, via Wi-Fi, link it to your phone and have you just put your phone on top. There's your display.
    45:46
    for your DMD. And I think that they would do the same thing with having an add-on module that you can, an add-on screen that you can purchase separately and just slap on top of the back box and there's going to be your display. So I agree. I don't think there's going to be a Wave 2. I think this is their cabinet. This is their machine. And you're right. It's just going to be a matter of, hey, at least you can download even more tables. That being said, And so I made a critical mistake in terms of what tables were going to be on this. I thought that it was going to be the 27 solid state tables that actually exist in real life being put onto this well-played arcade cabinet from Zacharia because I misinterpreted when people say recreations of real world tables.
    46:41
    That's not the same thing. they were remakes but they didn't use the word remake and remake is what they call what is actually going to be included which is all DMD versions of it's basically Magic Pixel's own creations which is very strange I guess there's no like the well played cabinet doesn't have any mention of Zachariah on it does it not that i've seen that's the interesting thing that we need to think about when we're looking at this cabinet because it's not it's not celebrating the zechariah name it may even be that there isn't even mention of zechariah in the in the build that they're using it may just be well played pinball and he's 20 years tables yeah but if you're offering the ability to download more it's going to be those Zacharia tables and the names are all Zacharia and the artwork is all Zacharia so I mean there's even Z's on top of the pop bumpers yep but you know the only ones that really heavily feature like that would just be easy enough to the only ones that are original Zacharia are the original Solid States and some of the EMs And the EMs, yeah.
    48:07
    So putting those ones aside, if you exclude those altogether and just look at the ones that Magic Pixel have gone and customised and made their My Own Creation tables out of,
    48:19
    removing any mention of Zachariah from those tables isn't a tall order. And it would mean essentially that they didn't probably have to pay any licensing for them because they're completely different names and everything. oh no they've no they remake they're like farfalla remake right so they still mention the name so yeah there's that so you're you're you're thinking that this choice was made on a licensing decision potentially because i'm thinking their choice was made off of and again this comes from me making the video is showing off all the tables.
    48:58
    The remakes are all DMD. They all have modes. The slingshot gap is typically of the wider variety rather than all of them being the super narrow kind of oddball variety. The layouts are more traditional. You've got ramps and habit trail, you know, wire forms. so they're more modern and considering that not many people stateside have ever seen a real Zachariah table they're pretty rare to see out in the wild I've only seen a couple here in Australia on location so it almost makes sense to just go hey, these are our creations or more in tune with the aesthetics of the time I do think it's kind of a mistake because I liked the variety of what those 27 solid states offered. Everything from an EM that's basically been converted into a solid state all the way up to some interesting design choices with playfields and how things function. you know i think if anything the the zacharia pinball offering is probably it may not have the strength of table design that some of the other offerings have but what it does show you is evolution it really does show how and this is in some part what magic pixels own thoughts of evolution mean but at the same time when you're going from from the solid states which are essentially the bedrock like all the all the game designs in magic pixel have been based off the solid states the the retro tables or the ems are riffing off the designs in um or the branding at least the the art package of those um solid state tables and going back in time but then you go forward in time with the dmds and then you go even more forward in time with the deluxes which are like essentially video screens so essentially they're using they're really it's a really creative thing about their package right like they are really we said this before that by far they are getting the most value out of their license for sure but it it shows you the i guess the the the pinball design chops that this studio has that's that's a lot of skill to be able to go we know what ems look like and the thing is some of those em tables are crazy in design and that's exactly what some of the early ems were they were just unplayable because they were just so oddball when they were trying to work out geometry and stuff in games of what worked and what didn't like they were essentially experimenting in the wild with all these players um in the early days of em like in wood rail days and some of the some of the em designs in zachary at pinball are very much inspired on wood rail designs they're oddball to say the least um but i'm just gonna i'm just gonna clarify here too for those that don't know in match pixel zachary at pinball there are there's an em tab those are the tables that actually do physically exist in the real world and then there's the retro tab the retro tab is magic pixels interpretation of what tables would look like as an em yeah that's true um which makes it makes it hard to commentate on because there's a blurred line right sometimes like the retros are really let's see how completely ridiculous we can make a table and still have a ball travel around on it because those ones are... There's some really strange ones. There are some tables with just literally the whole bottom half of the playfield is filled with gobble holes that will eat your ball and return it to the outlane instantly. And the whole top of the playfield is just loaded with pop bumpers. And it's just... It is like wood rail craziness, really, in its design. But it takes it to the next level. They really are some weird designs. but still interesting to check out. Whether I want to buy them as a DLC, I don't know.
    53:37
    Maybe not, because they're just a little bit too out there. They're not really super enjoyable to play, I'll say that. Well, this brings up something I've been kind of... People have asked, hey, can you comment about the Zachariah Deluxe tables?
    53:54
    And other than playing the free trial version of it, I haven't purchased any of them. No, me neither. And I've been asking myself, why haven't I? Because I... Each one is vanilla.
    54:06
    What's that? I feel that each one, particularly the animations on the DMD, it's cookie cutter. Well, and that's what I was going to say. It follows suit with actually what they did with the remakes. And that is, for the remakes, it was just, well, instead of having a score display, we're going to put that score in a DMD. But we're not going to put any character animation or any kind of animation with scenery or there's not going to be a video mode, nothing. There's going to be nothing on the DMD other than a score and maybe firework graphics and text telling you what to shoot for. That's about the extent of what's going to happen. And so the deluxe tables, it takes that exact same methodology with, hey, we've got a video screen just like you would see on the latest Stern tables, but they don't do anything with it. It's just literally a score display. And as I was playing through all of the remake tables, of which, hey, at least there's this, Jared. Our voices are going to be on a cabinet now. On a cabinet, that's right. Look at that. We're famous on the cabinet. But what I noticed with all of the call-outs, we all had essentially the same script. Yeah. Which was... We really did. calling out spinner, double jackpot, loops.
    55:31
    That was it. We weren't calling out... Look, you take that and you look at medieval madness, and it is all character. And they're not sitting there calling out loops necessarily or anything. It's building a story through all the call-out voices. Yeah, and that's what's missing, isn't it? It's completely what's missing. The tables themselves... They become interchangeable. They do. And the thing that's frustrating, and I get why, right? Hiring a voice talent and developing narrative for... I was going to say, it's not the hiring of voice talents, it's the developing a narrative, a story. Working at the heart of a table it hard to do So like these newer tables that zachary are offering they they have different shots to take and they have a different feel to them but they very very anemic in the the theme and the integration and i think that's what makes me not click the purchase button that much on them that's yeah because it's not it's not that the design the layout is bad it's just not memorable essentially it almost feels like you're playing a whitewood after whitewood after whitewood yeah and you don't nothing sticks with you with alpha 0.2 code on the play field that just allows you to flick and have your score registered yeah and like and that's that's the frustrating bit um it's it will be good if they could somehow weave some story into these remake tables because they're calling out for it they really need something to bring you in and look if they did that there might be a different story but at this stage they're just they're very samey to play and interestingly enough that's kind of the problem with the real zacharia tables i mean they're all it's it yeah there's art but yeah that's it there's not call outs that there's not well look it's very much the same like the the original wave of solid state tables that zachary released they were in the era of you know the system that very early like 80s people tables like yeah they were going from 80 to 87 i think for the solid states and they stopped producing it was early on where they went nah we can't do any more of these tables like they weren't going to the 90s in the age of dmd and stuff like that it was all alpha it was just not even alpha numerica is just alpha tables so like you know having played those tables they don't do speech they don't really do anything like that oh sorry they do do speech but it's like one or two phrases but think about this centaur which was 1981 has oodles more theming and character and stuff that than anything that Zachariah ever put out. It almost tells a story with only about five or six call-outs. Right. Which is, when you think about it, pretty ingenious. And the same as Gorgar. I was just thinking Gorgar. Gorgar is six call-outs, yet it actually has a narrative to it. Yeah. So, it's possible. And you did right, Chris. You can do it. But Zachariah chose not to. They just chose to let the artwork and the playfield layouts tell the story and not tell that story through any sort of computerization.
    59:12
    So see here, folks, if you're wondering why we pile on like we do, a lot of this is based off of our own experience with what we have played and what we've put hands on.
    59:23
    I've played every Williams table that is being offered digitally, and I've actually put hands on real Zachariah tables.
    59:35
    So have I. I've played literally every table that was in Pimble Arcade. Right. So, I mean, it's like... And based off of that, believe me, you throw me in a row of Gottliebs or you throw me in a row of Williams, I'm going to walk to that Williams row every single time and only will go to the Gottlieb table row... When the Williams are busy. Right. yeah like you wait for a game then as soon as that William's available see you later I'm walking mid-ball away from that thing yeah completely when it comes to our opinion about which cabinets we would prefer and stuff well I have experience with what Arcade 1UP has put out in terms of their video cabs I've never put fingers on anything at games it's ever made Arcade Legends no yeah so I mean it's hard for me to get excited about something that I've not so much as I don't even know what the button press feel like on an arcade legends cabinet. And I mean, down here, it's so hard for me to even get access to any of these products at all in Australia that I have even less chance of getting my hands on one of these things. So really, if Chris manages to find his way into having one of these things, I'll be living vicariously through him on that because it's, I really don't think Australia is going to see a lot of these. And that really makes me sad. I mean, who knows? And believe me, if I do, I will document the crap out of it.
    61:03
    Oh, yeah. We're going to have to get you a couple of extra webcams, Chris, so you can do screens. I don't think that I would actually do a live unboxing, but there would be an unboxing.
    61:19
    Look, I know people do like to see things being put together. I just don't really understand the attraction for it. Jared, I'm discovering that I don't understand at all what people actually want to watch because there's stuff that we've made and put out that have gotten way more video hits than other things, and it boggles my brain. But I just go, okay, if that's what you guys want, then I guess that's what content we need to put out.
    61:42
    Let the audience speak. Yep, something to that effect. Well, let's see. We covered a little bit about what Mel said. We covered the competition aspect of what the market will decide in regards to the four cabinets. And then we kind of laid into Zachary a pinball a bit, didn't we? We did, because people wanted us to. So blame them. Blame them. It's all their fault. That being said, okay, let me ask you this. Which would you rather play, though? Would you rather play some pinball arcade Gottlieb tables, or would you rather play some Magic Pixel Zachary tables?
    62:25
    That's a very difficult proposition to consider. I think I'd rather tool around with the Zachariah ones. Because the ones that are in the Gottlieb tables that came out after EMs, they're just not really that great. it's so tough it is it's a hard one it's splitting hairs really really tough what would I play now if I wanted to go and play pinball and I had to choose between those Godlieb probably win out over Zachariah. I think their table layouts are subtly more sane, although some of those early 80s ones, yeah, they're not so hot. Like, you know, at least the art's appealing. The art is appealing on the Zachariah tables. They put a lot of effort into the art. See, I'm the opposite. I don't like Zachariah art at all.
    63:45
    It's a mess visually. Whereas I think Gottlieb tables, they still understood the art of doing a play field for the most part. Now, if that makes sense, I don't like the Gottlieb Premier tables at all. Well, the thing is that's what you're playing, except for some of the, well... No, but in terms of like Big Shot or Black Hole,
    64:10
    I certainly would hold those above the Zachariah tables. Yes, correct. they definitely are superior in art but you've got to deal with those early solid states in there as well sorry the mid solid states on that package so essentially what you're doing you're basically breaking down your choices to half the collection on that table. I guess I should really put it to the test. I think that's what I'm going to do I'm going to make a video of me playing the Gottlieb tables that are going to be available from AtGames obviously everybody knows what they are by this point but I don't think I've actually seen a video of anybody playing through every single one of them so just like the previous videos that I've put out I think I'll do that and we'll see what I feel like if my opinion is different by the end of that because my mind was certainly made up after playing all those Zacharia tables yeah so okay you have fun with it I won't be doing the same take one for the team Chris so hey we do appreciate everybody that's become new to this channel that is subscribed feel free to leave comments let us know what is the content that you want from us what is it that you want more of for us to focus on and maybe we can I mean we're going to do what we want to do but we'll also squeeze in what you guys want to do.
    65:44
    Providing it doesn't cost us anything. Because we don't have a lot of free money just to throw around casually on buying arcade cabinets, etc. Right. Because as much as I would love to review all four cabinets when they come out,
    66:01
    it's not going to happen. No, it's not going to happen. I'm going to count myself lucky if I get one to review. so um and and if i'm getting one and it's coming out of my own pennies it's going to be an arcade one-up one just uh putting that out there um i i have after playing all those the stars one i'm kind of disappointed with the table choices truth be told i there's only two that i like about three that i'm meh on and the other five i'm like i mean me and jared hate masters of the force and that's in there that's one of them ever have been included on that package it is just terrible um sorry said but not a good table at all i mean we did because we did a breakdown of all of our we ordered or ranked all of the star wars tables and a bunch of the ones that we ranked low or included her in this package yeah maybe they're maybe they're saving the best for last right like maybe this will be a gen 2 offering where the good ones are actually in there so they don't burn off the base they don't burn off all their top a grade titles like fastlight didn't well because i did for the fun of it just play the ones that weren't i didn't make a video of this but i played the ones that weren't going to be included and i had a way better time with those so yeah hey look in closing because i think we're done yes we are yeah so in closing I have been going through all the FX3 tables and looking for the ones that don't have the achievements unlocked yet I'm doing pretty well with the Belly Williams ones I've only got a couple left which is Safecracker which I presume the achievement is get to the vault which is basically impossible because you don't get any memory of the vault letters you get and I think Dr. Dude is become Super Dude which is like I got there, I was two steps away the other day from getting Super Dude, so that's something. It's plausible you can get that one. But I've been going back through some of the Zen originals, and I went through Back to the Future, which I never really got into,
    68:12
    but what I did the other day is I went, okay, so the reason why I'm not getting into this game probably is because the rules aren't as intuitive as the Belly Williams tables are. That's one of the things that these zen originals do often have a problem with yes and for that reason i thought you know what i'm gonna do what every technical writer should do and refer to the fine manual rtfm in the game and see what this thing's all about and as soon as i did that i got about 600 million on the game and got to the wizard mode in one setting wow so so so my tip dear listeners is to rtfm for the zen um tables that you are trying to work out what the actual freak is going on with and you're going to have a much better time if you do like even the jurassic park table for example like i i enjoyed playing the jurassic park i found that i've been gravitating towards that table pretty frequently recently because it's it is surprisingly fun um but which which one specifically the jurassic park jurassic world or jurassic mayhem the jurassic park original okay one with mr dna in it gotcha um yeah and i've i now understand that game far better and again i think i played that one and i got three times pinball wizard score in it after reading the instructions so so definitely read the instructions uh that will help you so we would have thought use it 11 read the instructions there you go hot tip hot tip read the instructions all right well yeah we are at the end of the show here so uh thanks for watching we do enjoy doing these um and uh yeah we're going to continue doing breaking these up into minis because i know that interestingly enough i took a survey and there's almost no cross-pollination of either you watch the entire show or you only watch the minis but you don't do both so that's good to know also i think friend of the show constrastan suggested we use time stamps in the main one we wouldn't have to do minis but i tend to agree the exposure we get on in each individual episode warrants them being split up and made them episodical of the main show. Yeah. So we'll continue to do that.
    70:45
    You know, recommend us to your friends on Twitter and link us and do all that jazz because we really do want to see this CR numbers grow a wee bit. There's one other thing we should probably mention as well. Chris is now essentially an instructional designer for This Week in Pinball.
    71:05
    On this week in pinball, it's called Pinball University. And Chris's article about, what was it again? About the basics of digital pinball. Yes.
    71:16
    His article that he wrote a while back now is now featured as one of the courses that you can complete. So go and get your degree in pinballology on the Pinball University and become a professor of pinball. Well, and since you mentioned it too, I just did the first posting of it last week. A new thing called Last Week in Digital Pinball that we'll be publishing on This Week in Pinball. I'm not sure what the frequency of it will be, but it's basically... It's news, basically. Literally, because that's what he wants. He wants to aggregate whatever pinball news there is and put it out there. So I will do my best. That's what that's going to be. Kind of try and do my best to not be too biased.
    72:08
    If you want the bias, you come here. If you want just kind of the straight skinny, you know, it'll be there in a little bite-sized nugget. Just the fact that I am going to this week in Bimbo. But, yeah, so go ahead and visit that. And, hey, you know, if you've got comments regarding what's going on there, drop me a note on the Twitter here. and I will incorporate that way also. Other than that, we will be back probably in two weeks, I imagine, unless something gigantic drops between then and there. I think that's going to be the goal.
    72:44
    We're happy with if someone wants to drop massive news between now and two weeks. That would be pretty sweet. Yeah, so basically that would put us at after Thanksgiving here in the States was that Saturday after. So there's got to be something. It's got to have been Black Friday news, whatever. We'll have dropped by then, I'm sure. Look, this is a tangent again, but Black Friday, Cyber Monday, is that even going to be a thing this year? Cyber Monday, yes. Black Friday, no. Yeah, nah.
    73:12
    No, because they don't want the crowds. Yeah, they don't want the crowds. Cyber Monday would be good. You can expect some pretty steep discounts on all your pinball platforms on Cyber Monday, for sure. right keep an eye on your app stores if you need to catch up on the titles that you're missing and not that we we have not done this in a very very long time but uh you know if you wanted to buy somebody that perfect christmas present that happened to be mentioning blockade on it jared is wearing a wonderful t-shirt jared where did you get that t-shirt from well i got this from a link on our blockade pinball.com episodes each episode has a link to our red bubble page um where you can buy all sorts of blockade merchandise you can buy shirts like this in the coral color that i'm wearing or green or whatever you like you can print it on whatever there's tank tops there's mugs there's mouse pads yeah you can just go nuts and you know get more than apply a number of different um uh designs and stuff and get them printed off and shipped on one bulk lot you'll save a pile on shipping so get in there and get your christmas presents done i'd suggest probably getting it done pretty soon it's gonna be pretty the mail system in the world at the moment is a little bit disrupted so i would suggest going getting those orders in pretty quick yeah you know we get a little bit from each uh shirt sale not a lot It basically helps us cover our web hosting fees. That's essentially all we need to cover. This show's pretty lean. All we need is just a web hosting cost covered for a year, and we're good.
    74:54
    All right, so that's going to be, like I said, in about two weeks, topic unknown other than Jared's favorite things. Stuff and things. Until then, bye-bye. Bye-bye.