According to Christopher Franchi, Canada's Pinball Podcast is off the airwaves. So what's this? Oh, welcome to Canada's Pinball Podcast. Yes, I've been living rent-free in that man's head for like a decade now. Let's talk about what's going on in the pinball world. So look, I'm looking at this Godzilla black and white edition. I'm in the thread, and I'm seeing people ordering this game. And you know, when you look at it, when you really think about what it means that Stern is now going to make this beautiful new version of Godzilla for now until eternity, it's actually a good thing for everybody, and I'll explain why. We all know that Stern wanted this black and white version of Godzilla to be a limited edition game. They wanted us to spend $13,000 on this game. And now you're going to be able to get it for, I know this is crazy, for the bargain discount price of $9,700. And now we're hearing that all the accessories are going to be available in September. which means they're going to be ready at Expo with the full black and white version of Godzilla. I hope the code is in full black and white when we get to Expo. And I think the sales of this game are going to do just fine. And the reason why is simply this. It is one of the greatest machines of all time. They are now making it in what will be the most unique package of the game of all time. And I think a lot of people, you know, still don't have one. There's so many people out there that still don't have a Godzilla, and I think they're going to sell another couple thousand of these black and white editions over time. I don't think people who have the color version of Godzilla are going to trade up for this. But think about it. As new people get into this hobby, and yes, new people will get into the hobby, and yes, older people in the hobby will burn out and leave the hobby. But if you get into pinball, right, imagine you get bit by the pinball bug sometime in 2024, 2025, and you're looking to buy a game. What's the game that people would tell you you just can't go wrong with? It's Godzilla. It is just that good and rightfully so. And so I think this move by Stern is a smart one. I think it's going to work out for them. I think their dealers and their distros have needed something like this. It's been a really weird two years for people who are trying to sell these products. There's no way sales have been phenomenal over the last two years. You know, it's just across the board. We're waiting for the next Godzilla. Let's be honest. Everybody in this hobby and me included, the thing where everyone's been waiting for is not Canada coming back to the airwaves or potentially winning a seventh Twippy. The thing we're all waiting for is the next Godzilla. I mean, think about it. What pinball machine since Godzilla has achieved what Godzilla's achieved? What pinball machine since Godzilla has done theme integration so damn well? What machine since Godzilla has the amount of mechanisms and world under glass as well as Godzilla has it, right? And Godzilla now is what, like three years old? And that is what excites me about thinking about what's around the corner. I mean, since Godzilla, let's be honest. Like, let's look at the Stern games. Has anything that Stern's put out since Godzilla wowed us the way Godzilla did? We got Foo Fighters. No, great shooting game, but not a lot mechanically in it. James Bond, nope, not so much. Like, I still think James Bond is a little bit of a clunk fest. I think the left side of that game is really uninspired. And look, I get it. It's got a lot of code in it. It's got James Bond on a stick. But think about it like this, like that huge missile. Like it doesn't do anything. It doesn't make you feel anything. And the vertical up kick on the left side where the scuba diver is, again, it just has stuff in it that just feels like half thought out. I don't think Godzilla has anything in it where you're like, that doesn't feel thought out or it feels half baked. So I think James Bond is another miss. And also James Bond. Remember when James Bond came out, it was so incomplete and we had to wait so long for the game to get better. So like that also hurt the James Bond vibe. Trying to think of all the games that have come out since Godzilla. I think maybe Rush was after Godzilla or was Rush before Godzilla. I don't know. But we all know that Rush is not as good as Godzilla. Then you've got games like Venom. No way, right? Just basic fan layout. That game came and went. Nobody really cared about Venom. You know, then we had Jaws pinball. Keith Elwin's follow-up to Godzilla. And Jaws is good. Jaws is the game that's closest to like the magic of Godzilla. I don't think it has it. I don't think any of the mechs in Jaws are that good. I think the code is good. I think the game is going to be really fun. I think the game shoots well. It's a Keith Elwin pin. He knows how to make these games shoot tremendously well. But Jaws doesn't reach the level that Godzilla reaches. And also, like, it's easier for Godzilla, I think, to be a much more magical pinball experience and a more rewarding game to play. And the simple reason is, is that Godzilla as a theme is a lot more fun than Jaws. It just is. It has a lot more content. It's a lot more campy. And I think when you play Godzilla, it grabs you immediately much more than Jaws does. Because think about it, like you're Godzilla battling all these monsters, going through all these cities, doing all this fun stuff. When you're playing Jaws, it's like, yeah, you're like these dudes on a boat and you're not even battling Jaws for the most part. You're just catching random sharks until you get to the end of the game in which you do battle Jaws. And I just wish Jaws had like a singular mechanism that had a wow to it, right? I mean, remember when we all saw the Godzilla building, how awesome that was? And then we look at Jaws. What would you say mechanically in Jaws is that impressive? And then I would go a step further and say, they just didn't make it look like a world under glass. Like the orca looks terrible. Like they just didn't make it pop the way it should have for Jaws. All right. So then following up Jaws, we've got this John Wick game, which is absolutely dead on arrival. It has absolutely nothing magical in it. And there's nothing that is really captivating people with John Wick. Now, look, it wasn't supposed to be John Wick. It was supposed to be John Borg's Indiana Jones coming out right now, which would have been a lot more exciting for us to deconstruct than John Wick from Elliot Elliot Eismin. but it is what it is. And so the next game is going to be Jack Danger's X-Men 97. And I think we're all expecting really big things from Jack Danger. I think the one thing we all want to see from Jack on this game is a little bit more mechanical magic. I think we want to see a lot more in the toy department in this game, because I think when we look at Foo Fighters, the game shoots really well. It's a really fun game to play. I would say mechanically, not the most going on in that game. When we asked people what was the greatest mechanism in a game the year Foo Fighter came out the number one thing people voted on was that post that flips up and saves the ball from draining that dead flip post whatever Jack calls it how is that the number one mechanism in a pinball machine it's just a post that pops up I mean we got to get back to expecting some magic especially at these prices okay so in the Stern department nothing has like really wowed us more than Godzilla and then you go to Jersey Jack like since Godzilla has anything wowed us over at Jersey Jack no like we haven't been wowed by the Godfather Toy Story 4 Elton John is a great shooting game but I would also say like it's kind of empty there's nothing in it that really like wows us I mean Jersey Jack will bombard you with 18,000 lights they'll do that they'll make a Steve Ritchie game that shoots really well But when you really do look at the game and you say, hey, is this game pulling me in the same way that Godzilla pulls me into a pinball experience? And I think it is harder for music pins to do that. I think people love Foo Fighters because it's not a traditional music pin. So it pulls you into this like storyline. And I think a game that has a good storyline that pulls you into a journey is always going to be a much more rewarding pinball experience that keeps you coming back for more than a music pin ever could. And I say this as someone who owns Guns N' Roses, and I definitely don't feel myself going towards that start button as much as I did with Batman 66. Even though I love Guns N' Roses and I love the band, I will say like so much of it is just about getting to a high score. There's nothing in a journey or a story or moments that I can't wait to get to in the narrative because there is no narrative. And so that's just the reality of the difference between a music pin and a more story driven game. So I think we all want a story driven game, especially from Jersey Jack. Right. If you could decide whether or not it was Elton John with that layout or Top Gun or Karate Kid or Harry Potter or The Matrix. You could just keep inserting themes where you love the story so much and you would love a game to shoot that well with the story you love so much. And that's why Elton John, again, I think over time, unless you love Elton John music, the game is going to wear a little thin for people. So nothing at Jersey Jack has sort of reached the level of Godzilla. And maybe this whole thing is unfair, people, because Godzilla is number one, right? It is number one on the pin side, top 100. And then when you look at the other manufacturers, there's absolutely nothing that even comes close. Like nothing comes within a country mile. There's no way we're putting games like Looney Tunes and Texas Chainsaw Massacre in the same sentence as a Godzilla. And if we were to look at the pinball companies, like who's capable of making a game as good as Godzilla? Spooky Pinball, I don't think they're there yet. I don't think anyone would argue with that. I don't think the other manufacturers are there yet. I think Chicago Gaming Company's Pulp Fiction, you know, much different kind of game than what Stern and Jersey Jack is making. They're definitely not there yet. I think Pulp Fiction's really hard. I keep hearing from people who are playing it, you know, for a game that's now been out for a long time. I don't really feel like this overwhelming accolade for Pulp Fiction, and I don't think that game's going to end up like in the top 30 on pin side top 100. I think the novelty has worn off. I do think it is an interesting game if you have a big lineup, but I think for the most part, I think people are just kind of tired. I think they're tired of waiting for the game. I think a lot of people are still waiting for their LEs. I don't think it's a game where like a lot of people that love stern pinball and they love modern pinball. I don't think it's a game that's going to reward people the way modern pinball rewards people. I just don't. And this is coming from someone who has a Pulp Fiction LE on order, and I ordered it like the rest of you. And I just think by the time the game is available, I'm not really going to want it. So we're all waiting for it. Like, is it going to be X-Men 97? Is it going to be Jersey Jack's next game, which might be Avatar? And again, if it's Avatar, I don't think it's going to work. I just don't think it's going to work. Now, look, on paper, Godzilla shouldn't even be close, right, to the enthusiasm of Avatar, right? Avatar has made so much more money at the box office. There's no debating that, but that's just it. It's like Godzilla's iconic. And I would argue that Avatar is no longer iconic. It's one of these modern properties where like the box office numbers don't really indicate how much people emotionally care or are invested in it, right? It's like, I'll go to Disney World, and I'll go on the Avatar ride. It doesn't mean I'm ever going to feel the same thing as I would feel on a Star Wars ride. And I know that James Cameron wanted Avatar to be his Star Wars, and it will never be. It just will never be. The characters will never be part of culture the way the Star Wars characters are. There's nothing happening in it that's equivalent to like a Jedi or a Sith. The lines from the movie are just not memorable. It's just a spectacular thing to watch, but it's easily forgettable. And Godzilla's different, right? Godzilla's just been an evergreen part of culture for the last 70 years. And we kind of all just like the big lizard, right? We all just kind of have a soft spot for Godzilla and those movies. And maybe it's even hard to pinpoint why we love Godzilla so much, but we just do. Now, themes like Harry Potter, they have the emotional connection to consumers. Themes like Back to the Future has more emotional connection to the pinball buying demographic than even Harry Potter. I mean, Back to the Future is going to be a juggernaut. You know, Back to the Future could be the next Godzilla. It could be the game that does it all. We're going to have to wait a little bit longer than we wanted to. It's not coming out this year. It's going to come out sometime next year. What about a theme like He-Man? Does that work? Now, I know for a fact that Christopher Franchi, the biggest fan of Cadetist Pinball Podcast, Christopher Franchi has worked on and completed the art package for a He-Man pinball machine. It's done. It doesn't seem like that game is coming out anytime soon. I don't know why. It seems like a no-brainer to bring out an 80s-themed He-Man game. I think the pinball buying demographic would love it. I think He-Man's a great storyline for pinball. I think Castle Grayskull and all that stuff would work so well. But look, that game is not around the corner. So that could be another year or two away if it even happens. You know, so Spooky Pinball's next game. Could they make a game that's as good as Godzilla? You know, look, I'll just take a spooky game that's as good as Tron. I'll take a spooky game that's as good as Batman 66. I just want spooky to make a game with a Universal theme and I want them to put mechs and magic into the game not a ton of sculpts But actual mechanical things that work really well the good news for spooky and for those following this company Every game is getting better every game has better shots Every game has better layouts Every game has better mechs They got the artwork down If I could give Spooky one piece of advice, stop using the cheap monitors. I mean, this is something that I'm just tired of. Like, guys, your monitors are crap. Like, there's no true black in your monitors. And look, just spend the extra $15 and put the better monitor into the game. Like, there's no reason why when you're doing all this work and you've got all these assets, show it to the consumers in the best possible way. I mean, people still have to swap out those monitors and you still have to move like the power fan in that game. Just make some of those simple changes and give us a theme that's more mainstream. I know they're excited about what they've got. And if they've got stuff like Beetlejuice and they've got stuff like the Goonies and maybe Sonic the Hedgehog. And if you have themes like that, that's going to give you the opportunity to be somewhere near the next Godzilla. Again, it's real simple. Like you need a theme where people are receptive to it. And if you do it right, they will come. I mean it. They will come. And I think we've just had a lot of lackluster themes over the last few years. And it is a little head scratching. And so, yeah, I don't ever expect spooky right now. Let's be honest. I don't think they have the talent to go anywhere near what Keith Elwin can do in a game. And isn't it crazy when you think about it? Why is it so hard? Why is it so hard? You've got all of these Keith Elwin pins that you could study, and yet it is still hard when you're designing a pinball machine to deconstruct what Keith Elwin's done, what Steve Ritchie's done, what Pat Lawler's done. I've always wondered this. With all of these great designs out there, is there really any excuse for a game to come out that's not designed well? Like, why is it so hard to make a game shoot as well as all of those games? You've got all of those games to study. You can take them apart. You can measure all the different shots. You can measure the geometry. I get it. I just don't get it. I don't know. I have never designed a pinball machine, but I'm just wondering why it is so hard to make a game that shoots as well as a Lawler game, a Ritchie game, or an Elwin game. I don't know why. I don't know why it's so damn difficult. It's just geometry. It's just wood. And it's like all these standardized parts working together. The hardest thing in all the pinball shouldn't even be the physical side of it. The hardest thing in pinball is the software side of it. Because to me, that's where the real genius lies in pulling it all together. Because remember, the physical game itself doesn't come to life until the software talks to it. Until the software talks to you. Until the software lights stuff up, until the software changes the music, until the software adds the energy to the game. There's almost like hardly any real like emotional energy in a pinball machine until that software is talking to you. And that is why like a big software team that knows what it's doing is critical to making a game as good as Godzilla. Okay, so that's where we're all at. I think everyone's waiting for the next Godzilla. And look, it's funny, right? Because we have the next Godzilla right now. We've got this black and white version of Godzilla. And that is why I think the game is going to do just fine for Stern. You know, I want to end this podcast by saying I had a really great conversation about an hour conversation with Melvin over there at Dutch Pinball X. And, you know, I've been wanting to have a conversation with him for a while. We've been going back and forth. I missed a few opportunities to talk to him and we finally got on the horn and I got a much greater sense of what he's trying to achieve with Dutch Pinball X. We had a great conversation about marketing and building a brand because I think the DPX brand is in its infancy. And as they bring this Alice Adventures in Wonderland to market, it's going to be a really interesting test of not only what they're capable of, but also the market itself. You know, I don't want to disclose a lot of what we talked about, but I will say this. I think this game is going to be a work of that you can play. I think it is going to be a game that is not for everybody. We definitely had a good back and forth about how many should they make. I believe that 500 is too many. I think it's too many. And I think they're going to figure out as they go, you know, whether or not they're going to make 500 in total. And my advice to Melvin, I'll tell you this because I told him this, is that the smartest thing to do when you offer a product and it is limited by nature, This game is going to be limited and you get a certain amount of orders. The smartest thing you can do to preserve your brand and your exclusivity and also make your early adopters feel great about your company. The smartest thing you can do is pick a date by which at this date we're not making any more. We will not take more orders. And that is the smartest thing you can do. Barrels of Fun should be doing that with Labyrinth. This 1100 number, they're not going to reach it. And what that's going to do over time is it's just going to make all the value of the existing ones decrease. And gang, like, yes, these companies that are making very limited number of games, part of their strategy should be how do we preserve some of the value for our customers for two reasons. That will keep those customers coming back to us and they should be on the list for the next game without needing to be on a new list. And it will also attract new buyers to our company because they won't want to miss out. And yes, it is FOMO. And that is the brief for any boutique company that's not making a lot of games. We need to have FOMO to buy the game. Now, the other thing is this. It's a different pinball world now. You can create FOMO without creating an army of scalpers and people giving deposits and then walking away from their orders. And that's the tricky part that they're going to face over at Dutch Pinball X because I know that Melvin doesn't want to take non-refundable deposits. And I don't like non-refundable deposits, but it is really hard when you think about what they're going through. If I take a bunch of non-refundable deposits, and how do I know that 10 of those are not scalpers? like right just speculating and now I have to go order 10 parts that are maybe ordered for a guy that's just speculating on the price because he wants to charge over for my product and then when he realizes the secondhand value isn't worth more than the MSRP what happens if that guy just wants to cancel his 10 orders now I've ordered parts for these 10 games so I think it's a tricky situation it is a difficult balance. Now, I will say this. I think Dutch Pinball has now proven to everybody that they're not a company anymore where you have to worry about getting your game. The timeframe that they're looking at is by the time the game is revealed, and it should be some time around Pinball Expo, by the time the game is revealed, the products will be on the line within a couple months. Now, that's standard practice. When Stern reveals a game, usually the pros are on the line, but you're not going to get your LE for two months. Difference is, is like Stern can make hundreds of games a week. And if you're Dutch Pinball X, you know, you're probably more around like 10 games a week or 40 or 50 games a month. So if you're going to make 500, you're looking at almost a year build time, 10 months plus the two months to get the game on the line And so that a 12 month run So it all uncharted territory It was a great conversation You know when we were talking about the game itself it was interesting because Melvin said to me I'll just say this, Melvin, I know you're listening to this, Melvin, because you joined the show and I hope you appreciate what I'm about to say here. He's like, Chris, like the game doesn't have like one wow mechanism in it. He's like, you know, it's got magnets under the playfield that will throw the ball around. It's got an upper playfield that's floating that has magna flip area. It's got a physical ball lock under the game that you can see. And he's like saying all this stuff. And I'm like, Melvin, where you been? Games have like nothing in them now. Like all of that sounds more magical to play than what's in a lot of these modern games. Like, where you been? I was like, John Wick, by the biggest company in the world with the most resources, doesn't have anything mechanically as interesting as that. It's got a damn captive ball. This like Mustang pops out just to open up a ball pathway. There's nothing in it. And that's Stern with like hundreds of employees. And that's the best thing they can put into the marketplace. And everything you're describing sounds a lot more magical. So we're going to see more on this game as the months go by. And I know that Melvin wants to launch it with a little bit more secrecy. He doesn't want to show us the game until the game is done. And when he explained why he wants to do it this way, I understand it. It's going to be this work of art. Ferrari doesn't release just the door and then a wheel and then the roof. Like you see the whole Ferrari at once. So I'm in the same camp as all of you. I can't wait to see this thing in all of its glory. I know we're going to get some content to share with you guys as soon as they're ready to share it. So I just want to say like Melvin, I'm glad we talked and it was one of those moments. I'll be honest. There was some contention because we missed out on connecting. What I love about this hobby is when you just get together with people and you talk it out and you discuss it, even if you have differences of opinions or even if you feel like you're in a heated debate with somebody, all you got to do is pick up the phone. And I mean, just pick up the phone and talk to people in the modern world will do wonders like too much conversation happens through text messages and messages. and all this stuff and like you fire something out there and you don't hear people's tone of voice. You know, when you're not talking in real time, the way we were designed to talk to each other, you don't get anywhere. You absolutely don't get anywhere. And speaking of not talking and not getting anywhere, I don't understand this like haggis thread where everyone is now, everyone's now trying to figure out what number game they have. I don't know how many fathoms have yet to be built. You know who knows that number? Marty and Damien and I don't think we're going to get anything out of them. I don't know if we're ever going to hear from them again. I think Marty might try to resurface and rejoin the hobby unsuccessfully. I don't think people are going to let him back. I think his podcast with Jeff Teoldis is done, especially after the last few shows where he was really smug with people complaining about the state of Haggis. It's just over. It is absolutely over. Now, look, I still think that Damien is going to try to build all these games. I mean, I think there's a reason why he took the equipment. I think he's going to try to do whatever he can do to put these games together. The problem is, is like now the only way to achieve that is if he uses his own money and he just doesn't strike me as someone who's going to use his own money to get this done. I think the way he set up his company was to protect his personal assets, which is normal. You know, when people are like, oh, how dare he do that? Every startup does that. It's not unique to these guys. Look, the red flags were there from the very beginning. I believe I saw those red flags right away. I think everybody should have. I think the biggest red flag was Celts. I mean, you saw it. You saw it right away. You can't just build 10 games, 20 games, and then take orders for 300. Like, it just doesn't work like that. You know, the one thing I wish happened is I wish more people would have spoken up. I really do. I wish more people would have spoken up. There were people who stepped inside of Haggis who saw what was really going on. You know, it's just like me and Wayne. It's like Wayne's over there in Australia and everyone's like rooting against Wayne. And it's weird. It really is weird. I mean, the people that are just trying to tell you what's really going on oftentimes get told to shut up. I'll tell you this, like we didn't lose any money. Like nobody who listened to Kaneda lost any money. And if you didn't listen to Kaneda, you might have lost a lot of money. Now, there are some people I feel bad. They paid in full. And you never should have paid in full though. You never should have paid in full. Like the writing was always on the wall. Even from the very get-go, you knew that people were not getting their games after paying in full for like almost a year. And so why did you pay in full? And if you just refused to pay in full and you ordered through a distributor, you would have got refunded. I mean, that's the good news is that anyone who ordered through Nitro and Flip N Out Pinball, they're protected by their distributor. I know they don't want to bail out Damien. And of course, they're going to lose some money on this because even if they transfer over that deposit money towards another order with the company, they're losing out on that profit. Nobody's winning here. Like nobody is winning. Nobody is winning. It's just we've seen this too many times. There's no reason why anybody should get burned. Yeah, I was just thinking about this when I was taking a break. Like why would anybody in modern times? Why do you even need to preorder anything now? I mean, just think about it. There are hundreds of distributors around the world with amazing pinball machines sitting in a box on a shelf that they will send to you today. So what's the problem? If you want a great pinball machine, why would you ever risk your money and be anxious about even getting a game in a world in which there are thousands? I don't mean like hundreds. I mean, thousands of games are sitting in a box waiting for you. You should never pay in full for anything unless the thing is in your arms within 30 seconds of paying in full. And yes, people have to start taking responsibility for that. I mean, you're a grown adult. Why are you risking $8,000 on a guy in Australia who hasn't proven he can do it? It's just that simple. And again, there's just too much great pinball out there. And I'm talking about thousands of new in-box games that you could have tomorrow. If I started talking about just used games that are actually real, that are dialed in by owners, then there are hundreds of thousands of real pinball machines, real pinball machines that you have access to. It's over. Kickstarting these companies is over. Everybody, have a great Wednesday. it's so weird like being on the airwaves when Franchi said the show is off the airwaves. What? We ain't going anywhere. Later. Oh, Champs-Élysées.