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Rob Raith & Alec Gleason - Pinball Expo 2023 - Pinball News

Pinball News (Pinball Expo 2023)·video·43m 29s·analyzed·Oct 20, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Electric Playground founders discuss topper design philosophy, IP strategy, and community-driven future projects.

Summary

Rob Raith and Alec Gleason from Electric Playground presented their topper design philosophy and business at Pinball Expo 2023, discussing how they evolved from a COVID-era basement project creating custom Godzilla toppers to a small commercial operation. They emphasized community-driven design, IP compliance strategy, and technical innovation (optical sensors, addressable RGB lighting, 3D modeling), then conducted an interactive brainstorming session with attendees to vote on and develop concepts for future toppers including Ghostbusters, Addams, and Lord of the Rings.

Key Claims

  • Electric Playground started as a COVID hobby project in a basement when they got tired of waiting for Stern's Godzilla topper

    high confidence · Alec and Rob's opening remarks about Robin's basement origin story and Godzilla inspiration

  • Their first Godzilla topper resulted in a cease-and-desist letter for IP infringement, leading them to adopt stricter IP compliance practices

    high confidence · Rob explicitly states: 'we learned very quickly about something called IP infringement, and a cease and desist letter will really put the fear in God into you pretty quick'

  • The Godzilla topper uses 14 optical light sensors compared to the Twilight Zone topper which only connects to 4 lights/motors, representing significant technological evolution

    high confidence · Direct technical comparison provided: original TZ uses 4 connections, Godzilla uses 14 optical inputs and 200+ addressable RGB lights

  • Each topper takes 8-12 hours to build and involves thousands of parts

    high confidence · Rob states: 'Each topper takes anywhere from 8 to 12 hours to build, so there's a lot to it. There's thousands of parts involved.'

  • Addams Family came with a topper originally, with approximately 21,000 machines produced, making it a high-volume candidate for a new topper

    high confidence · Discussion about Addams production numbers: Rich confirms '21,000' when asked about Addams volume

  • Electric Playground works with a trademark attorney to ensure all designs are legally compliant and IP-friendly

    high confidence · Rob: 'we actually work with the trademark attorney with the design of Twilight Zone to make sure everything we were doing was above board'

  • Their Godzilla topper uses optical sensors rather than tapping into the machine's serial bus to avoid potential bricking from encryption changes by manufacturers

    high confidence · Rob explains concerns about serial bus access: 'we do have some concerns about the companies being able to brick that by changing the encryption on that'

Notable Quotes

  • “If you haven't seen the Twilight Zone topper, please come by our booth. We would love to talk to you about it.”

    Alec Gleason@ 3:53 — Invitation for community engagement and booth visitation, reflects customer-focused marketing approach

  • “We can't afford a lawsuit. We knew that pretty quick... We want to be in this for the long haul. We want to build a business that we can actually build and continue beyond just a couple years, right? So we cannot afford any type of litigation.”

    Alec Gleason@ 9:18 — Explains the fundamental business constraint driving their strict IP compliance approach after cease-and-desist letter

  • “We're building this platform in a way that you can really make it yours. Like if you're very much into like 3D models of buildings, we're working with a mod maker to make that. If you want to just add your own lighting effects, you can do that.”

    Rob Raith@ 13:03 — Demonstrates community-first design philosophy emphasizing user customization and modularity

  • “Everything we're building with Godzilla is going to be modular in the sense that you can add these things onto it over time.”

    Rob Raith@ 17:06 — Clear product roadmap for expandable topper ecosystem

  • “The form and the function like with with twilight zone it was really about the form in terms of like telling the story of Twilight Zone. With Godzilla, it was about the functionality.”

    Alec Gleason@ 11:36 — Articulates core design philosophy distinguishing between form-driven (narrative) and function-driven (gameplay) approaches

  • “I would love to have it, but I only have like a seven-foot ceiling. I don't know a car is going to fit on top of the game.”

Entities

Electric PlaygroundcompanyRob RaithpersonAlec GleasonpersonSilver BallroomorganizationGodzillagameTwilight ZonegameAddams Familygame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Small boutique topper manufacturers face existential risk from IP litigation and licensing disputes, necessitating conservative design approach that avoids character-heavy IP elements

    high · Alec: 'We can't afford a lawsuit... We want to be in this for the long haul... So we cannot afford any type of litigation.' Discusses avoiding Star Wars due to character IP concerns and Toy Story as stronger defensible design

  • ?

    business_signal: Electric Playground scaled from basement hobby project to professional 4-person operation with multiple topper lines in production; planning expansion with modular add-ons and digital display integration for 2024

    high · Rob states: 'So we've got a team of four that helps build these with us' and discusses upcoming digital console add-ons for Godzilla coming 'next year'

  • ?

    community_signal: Electric Playground conducting interactive community brainstorming at Pinball Expo 2023 with live voting on topper projects, audience idea solicitation, and collaborative design input

    high · Presentation structure includes QR code voting, write-in options, audience Q&A, and collaborative discussion of specific game features for Ghostbusters and Addams toppers

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Electric Playground differentiating from other topper manufacturers through modular design philosophy, interactivity-first approach, and focus on under-served games (Addams with broken toppers, newer titles like Ghostbusters)

    medium · Emphasis on expandability ('we can add these things onto it over time'), interactivity requirements, and focus on games with existing user bases and unmet topper needs

  • ?

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.130

0:00
We appreciate you for making the time. Anyone who's willing to take time away from free pinball to come sit and talk about toppers, you're our people. We love you. We appreciate you. We're going to try to make this entertaining. We want this to be interactive. active. I counted no less than three people sleeping in the last session. Let's try to just make it a little bit better if we can. Again, I'm Alec. This is Rob. We are partners and founders of the Electric Playground, and we make toppers. You're here to learn about toppers. I don't know why, but you're here to learn about toppers, and we're going to tell you a little bit about what we do. And then we're going to give you the background of how we think about toppers, and I want you to keep that context in mind because what we're going to be asking for throughout this is for actual live engagement where we're going to brainstorm future projects that we could be working on. And we want to hear what you guys think, what's interesting to you. If these titles are not interesting to you, we want to know what you think we should be building for and what you think is possible. So with that being said, we're in Chicago. It's a pinball expo. Thanks for having us. This is where you go to vote. All right. Scan the QR code. We have five games uploaded. These are games that we've been thinking through. We have some thoughts to share, but we want this again to be an interactive brainstorm session. So we have some things to talk about, but by all means, we're hoping to hear about what you want as well. If the five games listed are not of interest to you, there's a write-in category. Put in what you think we should be thinking about, and we'll talk about those as well. Top votes are going to be, we're going to go through two toppers. The top two will be the ones that we brainstorm together. If we have more time, maybe we can make it three. So how we got here, a little background about how we started this crazy business. This is Robin's basement. Every good company has a basement origin story. We are no different. The topper that you're seeing here was a pet project that Robin started because, like many people in COVID, you're bored, you had time on your hands, and you were waiting for Stern to put out their Godzilla topper. We got sick of waiting. Robin had a good idea. It actually turned out pretty cool. I said, maybe that's a business idea. And here we are. This is actually how we got into the hobby. This is our stomping grounds, the Silver Ballroom in St. Louis, Missouri. It's one of the greatest pinball bars and punk bars that you could ever go to. It is obviously like pinball, it attracts an eclectic crowd. There's every time you win a trophy, you have to take the ceremonial picture in the toilet. This is so a little bit more like, again, we never thought toppers as a business made sense. It was like everybody else. We kind of saw what was out there. We didn't really understand toppers. I even said, who are the people buying these things? Like, why are people paying $1,300 to have some of these things that mount their games? And then when you see all the other options out there, we just thought there could be opportunity to do something better, if you will.

They are developing an expandable platform for Godzilla with modular add-ons including a 3D-molded console with digital displays coming next year

high confidence · Alec describes: 'we're actually building an add-on, which is going to be a 3D-molded console with actually digital displays in it. So that'll be something that's coming next year'

Alec Gleason@ 19:49 — Humorous acknowledgment of practical space constraints that affect topper design feasibility

  • “The interactivity, right? That is a criteria for our toppers, that the interactivity has got to be there.”

    Rob Raith@ 21:08 — Reinforces non-negotiable design principle that all toppers must include meaningful mechanical or technical interactivity

  • “One of the greatest ideas, if I say greatest, I just can't think of a better word... And this is the very first game I've owned, right? Like this is a soft spot for me. I don't really want to replace it.”

    Rob Raith@ 29:46 — Personal connection to Addams Family game reveals emotional attachment influencing design approach

    • Ghostbusters
    game
    Lord of the Ringsgame
    Pinball Expo 2023event
    PinSoundproduct
    Davey Stumblerperson
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Chrisperson
    Robinperson

    design_philosophy: Electric Playground distinguishes between form-driven toppers (narrative/character focus like Twilight Zone) and function-driven toppers (gameplay enhancement like Godzilla), with interactivity as non-negotiable design principle

    high · Alec: 'with twilight zone it was really about the form in terms of like telling the story... With Godzilla, it was about the functionality.' Rob: 'The interactivity, right? That is a criteria for our toppers'

  • $

    market_signal: Electric Playground exploring potential integration with PinSound system for Lord of the Rings topper to enable data-driven video displays showing jackpot progress via serial bus monitoring

    medium · Rob discusses Lord of the Rings concept: 'Pinsound has developed this technology... they're actually monitoring the serial bus... we could use a system like PinSound to basically display those jackpots on that video display up top'

  • ?

    regulatory_signal: Cease-and-desist letter on original Godzilla topper IP infringement now drives strict compliance strategy using trademark attorney review and non-character-dependent design philosophy

    high · Rob: 'we learned very quickly about something called IP infringement, and a cease and desist letter will really put the fear in God into you pretty quick... we actually work with the trademark attorney with the design of Twilight Zone'

  • $

    market_signal: Addams Family (21,000 units produced) identified as high-volume opportunity for new topper despite having original topper, suggesting aftermarket replacement market for worn/broken toppers on classic games

    high · Alec: 'Addams is an interesting one. You guys want me to move on? So Atoms, all the machines came with a topper. Is that correct to say that? Yes. Many of those toppers are broke... but you know, it's such a popular machine... So very popular machine... 21,000.'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Electric Playground planning modular expansions for Godzilla topper including 3D-molded console with digital displays (2024) and exploring concepts for Addams Family, Ghostbusters, and Lord of the Rings toppers

    high · Alec: 'we're actually building an add-on, which is going to be a 3D-molded console with actually digital displays in it. So that'll be something that's coming next year.' Brainstorming session focused on voting for next projects.

  • ?

    technology_signal: Electric Playground implementing machine learning technology to detect RGB LED color changes via optical sensors, expanding beyond simple on/off light detection to color-aware automation

    medium · Audience question answered: 'Can you sense what color the RGB LEDs are? It's possible. So that uses a technology called machine learning... you basically train the light sensor to know what these colors are. That is very much possible.'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Electric Playground transitioning from simple T-tap wiring (Twilight Zone) to advanced optical sensing and addressable RGB platform (Godzilla) with expandable modular architecture

    high · Technical progression detailed: TZ uses 4 connections, Godzilla uses 14 optical sensors, 200+ RGB lights, Ethernet communication, expandable port system, and 3D-modeled components

    • 3:23
    That led us to where we are here today. This is, again, the very first Godzilla topper that Robin designed. Give you just a little bit more context. You can kind of see it in some of our friends' collections. These were actually very popular. but we learned very quickly about something called IP infringement, and a cease and desist letter will really put the fear in God into you pretty quickly. So learning is all around. That led us to where we are today.
    3:53
    If you haven't seen the Twilight Zone topper, please come by our booth. We would love to talk to you about it. The background and origin story of Twilight, I'm a huge fan of this game. It's by far and away like everybody else. They have that, like, this is the game that's never going to leave my collection. I love it. I bought it. I sold it. I missed it. I bought it again.
    4:14
    And ultimately, when we had the feedback of the original Godzilla, let's call it that, Twilight Zone made nothing but the most sense. And we're going to get into why and how that factors into our design process later. But this is where things have evolved to. So we started with Godzilla, or Twilight rather. Now we're getting into the world of Godzilla. Again, stop by the booth. We would love to give you the full tour of how all this works and the evolution of the company. I think it's crazy to think of how fast we've grown in terms of technology and what's capable from our little team here in St. Louis within that short amount of time. But we can get into that if and when you come by the booth. So we did start in our garage. This is our shop that we have. So we've got a team of four that helps build these with us. Each topper takes anywhere from 8 to 12 hours to build, so there's a lot to it. There's thousands of parts involved. It's been a learning experience for us. We're certainly not interested in making pinball machines. But we've got some great equipment. We've got a great team. We've got plans for a couple more toppers next year, so definitely moving along. As Alec mentioned, we've really evolved from the tech perspective. So that original Twilight Zone topper connects to four basically lights or motors in the game. with the Twilight Zone topper. I'm sorry, with the Godzilla topper. It's got 14 optical inputs, so we're actually registering 14 different switches on the game. We're doing a lot with the light show. It's got over 200 addressable RGB lights in it. So really, really trying to build a platform that we can do a lot more with and really bring interactivity into what we're building. We're building with 3D models now, so you guys are probably seeing a lot of this from Jersey Jack lately, showing some of this stuff. We're doing the same thing. So from a prototyping perspective, We can know down to the millimeter exactly where things are going to go. You cut it out, you put it together, and it just goes a lot faster. So nothing with AI, of course, yet, but a lot going on with the tech and the build process for us. So last year we debuted Twilight Zone at TPF. This is our first expo for both Alec and I. This is a shot from TPF. Again, we'd love for you guys to come by the booth. This is really about, as you guys can kind of realize, it's about community. So, like, working on your machines is about community. Building these things is about community. So we're very focused on, you know. Real quick, does anyone know who that other guy is, though? He was supposed to be here, and he happens to be not here. But if you don't know Davey and Stumbler and all his mods in Godzilla, no? All right, there's a few people. Did he make the mods that are in your pinball machine? No. He made them himself. No. So you were talking about the numbers now. Yeah, the neon sign. Well, he was asking if any of the stuff in our toppers are made by him, and they're not. But in the game itself, because you've got the high-tension power. No, that's not us. That's T. Diddy. Yeah. So. Good stuff, too. We're above the game. They're inside the game. I was wondering if you did both. No. Yeah. We've done a couple small things, but mainly we're doing toppers, yeah, at the moment. the actual Godzilla toppers evolved a little bit when we first debuted it four or five months ago the design had some things that we wanted to improve so you can kind of see how some of our process gets into taking community feedback and a big part of this was kind of how it kind of tapered off on the side so you're kind of seeing how that evolves throughout our process we try to incorporate other people's feedback. So I think that slide actually was important. It shows a lot of good stuff. But getting into the design philosophy and things that how we kind of think about toppers, it's a question like, how did you come up with this idea, right? So every time we think about a project, it starts here in the idea, all right, what's the form of this topper? What is it going to in turn, is it going to be influencing the theme of the game? Or is it going to be more game and is actually more inspired by the gameplay and then the function how does that how does it actually come to life like what are those wow moments at the top or anything that we touch we want the spectators that have a moment to enjoy as well right we want it to look as good on top of that game but it needs to have a like whatever that sparkle is whatever you want to want to call it and then everything is tied together obviously with the interactivity of the topper how do we actually utilize the technology that's in the game to bring these things to life if it doesn't exist how in the world are we going to make it exist and that's a that's more probably the where we're going to get into with godzilla so again we being a small business being we have families it's two guys right that started in a garage we can't afford a lawsuit we knew that pretty quick you look at everything that's out there you see things that people are just blatantly you know taking IP infringement on and they're just making things for the sake of making them. We can't afford that. We want to be in this for the long haul. We want to build a business that we can actually build and continue beyond just a couple years, right? So we cannot afford any type of litigation. So we actually work with the trademark attorney with the design of Twilight Zone to make sure everything we were doing was above board.
    9:37
    So how this all kind of comes to life. Again, form to us, these are kind of the more clear definitions of what this means. So again, when we're looking at the game or thinking about what a topper could be, the first thing you're going to look at is the game. Can we make something that's going to actually be IP friendly for the theme, or are we going to design a topper that's going to be more about the gameplay and enhancing that experience for the player? So that's really what form means to us. The functionality, again, how does this kind of, like, what is the experience going to be? Is it the lighting design? Is it, for Godzilla, undoubtedly the light programming and the experience you get from the light show is, to me, one of the greatest parts about that game. How it actually plays and complements the gameplay, if you are into that game and you know how to move through the missions, the topper will actually provide you wayfinding through the game, which is for us, it hasn't been done in toppers. We think that's important. We think it needs to complement the gameplay just as much as anything else. And then also what that interactivity is Like what is the mechanical movements in Twilight Zone Obviously the wow moment of the ball the gumball like actually moving around the the habit trail that was something that was really impressive to a lot of people but it also communicates the progress through the game in the sense when the multi balls lit the the door is going to be flashing that it's going to tell you something is going to happen if you hit that so when you're playing pinball you're focused down here sometimes having that just another scent is something feeding into the senses can help you from a player's perspective we want to leverage that at the end of the day we're players ourselves uh he's better than i am undoubtedly but he knows he knows deep rule sets and he knows how to design for uh to make i guess the games a little bit more uh accessible in that way so um you know the the the form and the function like with with twilight zone it was really about the form in terms of like telling the story of Twilight Zone. With Godzilla, it was about the functionality, and both of those tie into the interactivity. So with this one, I don't know how well you guys know Godzilla, but it's really the game is about creating destruction. You are Godzilla. You're trying to create destruction in this game, and your score is reflective of that. And a key part of it is activating these monster monitor modes and moving through the city. So when we designed this, you know, we really wanted to help communicate that to you, communicate the progress, and ultimately celebrate that throughout it. And the way you do that, of course, is having a lot of information about what the progress of the game is without actually tying into the CPU of the game, which we don't have access to do that. So from a tech perspective, this module we built is, there's basically a node board that sits underneath the play field. It's actually connected to this device that has eight optical sensors, so it's kind of like a nightlight, but the reverse of that. so light turns this thing on. And that board there on the left, which sits under the play field, communicates through a standard Ethernet cable to the board that's on the back of the topper. So on the back of the topper, you've got various things hooked up. We're telling the topper that things are happening. And what's really cool about this is it's expandable, so not only for our mods, but also mods that others are building. So we're building this platform in a way that you can really make it yours. Like if you're very much into like 3D models of buildings, we're working with a mod maker to make that. If you want to just add your own lighting effects, you can do that. So basically there's a series of posts on the front of the topper that you can put stuff in. You can remove the buildings. We've actually got four modeled buildings from Sleel, another mod maker in the Godzilla community that you can come check out. And then you can also light those up. So there's ports on the back to light those things up. If you want to do something with your undercab lighting through that, you can. There's a lot of expansion ability for that.
    13:39
    So that's kind of our process, if you will, and I know we kind of went through that pretty quickly, but we're hoping to work with you to kind of talk through some ideas that you might have, because really we want to build toppers that you guys want for the games that you want.
    13:55
    So I hope a few of you voted. I'm going to pull up the results real quickly, so give me a second on that, and I'll let Alec fill some time. fill some time talk amongst yourselves did anyone do the write-in I'm just curious is anyone actually did anyone even vote well done Chris yeah an army of one we'll probably get yeah yeah question question in the audience please
    14:33
    So the X reports was on Godzilla, not Twilight Zone. Yeah, and again, it's kind of a testament to the evolution of the company. The Twilight Zone is very rudimentary. It just uses T-taps to tap into your existing wiring, which tells the topper to do what it does. We've completely programmed Godzilla, right? So we can make that thing do whatever we want. Twilight Zone just does what it does.
    15:06
    Tie for first. Need another vote. Uh-oh. Who's the winner? Is it 30.8? Let's give it two more minutes, and we'll talk about the top one. All right, two more minutes. Any other questions? Chris, this is your moment. You asked.
    15:24
    I'll answer. I'm unable to use the scan on computer Jones, but I would like to put my vote in for Indiana Jones. All right. Yeah, you can go to teppinball.com slash vote if you can't hit that QR code. Wow. Can you expand on the intellectual property issue? It took me very long. Was that with Stern or was that with the fellow? Well, okay.
    15:47
    So the pinball companies have the right to use the license, right? And, of course, it's in their interest to enforce that license while it's within the framework of that time period, which is typically three years. So we care about both companies' interest in intellectual property at that point. For us, art and expressing things is about being inspired, and we believe that we have the right to use the things we're using because we're inspired, and we're using common objects, and we're displaying that. So that's not to say we wouldn't like to acquire licenses at some point with our toppers so we can really give those characters. So a lot of the decisions we're making is around how much character IP there is in the topper, And so we would never do Star Wars because it's about celebrating the characters, or you can make that argument. Toy Story, for example, that's one of the more stronger things to defend from an intellectual property perspective. So in this Godzilla type where you see the suggestion of Godzilla, but it's a monster with spikes.
    16:46
    And we can, of course, change things too if we need to, if we run into issues. Do you have two versions, one that's just acrylic and another one that has... So with the Godzilla, we're actually building an add-on, which is going to be a 3D-molded console with actually digital displays in it. So that'll be something that's coming next year. Everything we're building with Godzilla is going to be modular in the sense that you can add these things onto it over time.
    17:13
    Sure. Please. So the optical references you're saying, are you saying you're looking at specific places in the game and picking up? Yeah, so there are mod makers that are tapping into the serial bus, and we do have some concerns about the companies being able to brick that by changing the encryption on that. So for us, we're using, in the case of Godzilla, there's 14 optical light sensors that when they sense the light is on, but we're able to use them in conjunction with each other. So, for example, with the four monster monitors, when they're all four on, we can tell the topper to do this rainbow display, So you get this very high visual impact of like, okay, now it's time to change cities because you've got all four monster monitors lit.
    18:00
    So a lot of them are semi-contained. There's also the sensors are very tiny and can be angled a certain way. But the places that we're using, there's a couple of cases where we're using a T-tap to light up another light, and we're sensing that light, and it's behind heat shrink. So we're not actually in any way using the power of the machine other than the light, a single light, that then we're sensing that. So in the case of the GI, we have to do that in a couple cases. So we've got 20 votes in, and I think, is it Ghostbusters?
    18:34
    Okay, so we've got a great idea, we think, for Ghostbusters. We'd love to share that with you guys if we don't get a lot of responses. but I'd love to hear from anyone that did vote for Ghostbusters or otherwise if you've got any ideas that you'd like to see in the Ghostbusters topper. With the caveat of remembering, we can't add, like, Bakeman on top of the car, any of the licenses. So with that being said, is there any ideas that you guys thought of that you wanted to maybe chat about? No? Give him a sec. Sir? Yes. I thought about just the extra car. The car? Yep, yep. So the topper that was from the manufacturer, which you can't acquire anymore, was the light bar. Is there a specific variant on that, or are you talking about the actual car? Yeah, yeah, yep. With like the headlights or like the front, maybe the grill of the car?
    19:34
    You know, whatever. I was thinking about the grill. Yeah. One of our favorite ideas, so we have some signs in our booth. one of the signs we came up with is you're going to wish you had a taller ceiling because everyone comes by our booth and just, I would love to have it, but I only have like a seven-foot ceiling. I don't know a car is going to fit on top of the game. I don't know how we're going to make that. Well, sure, if it goes a long way. Oh, so you're going to go like the length of the car. Yeah.
    20:00
    Maybe. Yeah, I mean, I love that idea. I look at the car as a character, and it's very, very much in that intellectual property zone that I think that we probably would want to avoid tackling.
    20:11
    both from a legal perspective and, you know, just the other, I would say with the light bar too, like it's pretty close to what's out there. But I think it sounds really cool.
    20:24
    Other, Davey, welcome. We talked about you earlier. Yeah, you're under the bus. No one knew who you were. No, that's not true. That's not true. Other ideas for Ghostbusters? Crossing the streams. Oh, man. Yeah, so. I don't know if you can do this, but trapping. the streamer. Uh-huh. Yep. He'd be hovering around like he did in the ballroom. Right, yeah. The streams is a great one. There are a couple cool toppers that I don't think quite get there to really take advantage of that. But, you know, the four Ghostbusters, there's a topper out there for Ghostbusters with the guys with the backs, and they've got something going up.
    21:04
    But thinking about the form and the function but the interactivity, right? That is a criteria for our toppers, that the interactivity has got to be there.
    21:13
    So I think there's probably some really cool stuff there. And we're doing a lot with motors and servos to what we can do. We actually went through a spell where we found this little Tesla coil, and actually you can surround the Tesla coil. It's like a $50 device on Amazon with a glass tube, and they shoot up and they're purple and they're perfect. but it's a lot of energy in a small location. So we kind of decided other legal reasons to maybe Very loud Very loud very loud very loud But the idea of the beings undoubtedly there something cool there for sure Yeah, yeah.
    21:53
    Totally, totally. Other Ghostbusters ideas. Tell them yours, all right? Just drop it down. What? Give them yours. Oh, okay. So Chris in the Cardinals hat back there, we are from St. Louis. Are you voting? What are you doing? he let me borrow his Ghostbusters for a month, which was awesome. And I got to really get a feel for it. Do anybody here own Ghostbusters? We've got lots of Ghostbusters fans. So I really love that game. I had never really played that much. But one of the cool things is you've got this in the center. So we've got some pictures of Ghostbusters. Let's go back to the script. so in the center area uh up above the flippers you've got this ghost counter which is you trapping ghosts so it's 10 20 30 40 50 up to 100 and there's some key things there you're you're capturing uh an extra ball i think at 50 you're activating a mode at 100 and and there's ghosts all over the play field so one of the things that's lacking in this game is a focus on the storage facility so that's the thing that was in their basement with the big red container and they stick it in there and eventually it explodes. And there is a storage facility in Multiball. So the idea here is to really focus on the storage container, which we can come up with a version of that that we will feel confident in displaying. It's not really a character. And the idea is to display with a digital display, kind of old school, like red on black, like that count. So you're actually kind of like capturing that number of ghosts you're achieving up there. And it's a really important thing, and you kind of lose sight of it sometimes. So if you're reflecting on it up and you're like, oh, I'm at 50, I'm at 70, I'm at 90, like 100. And then when you activate the storage facility multi-ball, the entire play field goes red and a bunch of lights. So we're thinking about putting like real domed old school lights up there that flash when that goes. So that's something that gets us excited is like how do we communicate something, but also hit something that's kind of lacking in the game right now as far as a focus. and the wow moment, like the thing I think that tied it together, a video screen that the more ghosts you capture, the more ghosts in the animation start showing up. And they're all flying around inside, you know, the reactor, whatever you call it, the storage unit. So the more ghosts that you're capturing, the more it gets packed until it just explodes, right? And that's kind of that big wow moment. See, she likes it. I try to conveniently forget the really hard stuff.
    24:30
    No, but yeah, I forgot about that. So have a little window to look into it, and the ghosts are kind of circling in there. And then whenever it does explode, maybe do some lights around it.
    24:41
    I'd love to have a trap, you know, to trap it in there, too. Because that's the whole point, right? It's the whole scene with the sliding in there. I was like, we could make that. Yes, sir? Can you sense what color the RGB LEDs are? It's possible. So that uses a technology called machine learning. so you basically train the light sensor to know what these colors are. You know, you kind of do it, and that is very much possible. It would require a different kind of sensor than we have, but we do have that board with all those outputs and inputs, so it could be added for sure. That's a great idea. I mean, that, frankly, could be added to Godzilla if there was a use case in Godzilla for something like that, for sure. Other Ghostbusters ideas? Yes? I was just wondering if you thought of interfacing your system with something like Pinsir. Yeah, yeah, so I'll bring up one of the ideas we have. So for Lord of the Rings, we really want to do something that celebrates a key moment in that game, where you're getting jackpot one, jackpot two, jackpot three. It's actually on this timer where you have to get them in sequence, and it can build up to like five or six. And it's a huge opportunity to celebrate a moment. And then that's combined with a key element of that intellectual property that we think we can work with, which is the eye. So how do we get that eye up there in a video display? How do we celebrate these jackpots? And that jackpot thing is actually something we can't detect with the tech that I've been showing you. Like we can't know that the system is on jackpot three or four. Well, Pinsound has developed this technology that allows you to basically replace sound effects and voiceovers. So Alec has a Terminator 2, and there's not a lot of, or maybe not even any Arnold audio in there. In the original? Yeah, so he's got this Pinsound system that replaces all the audio, and Arnold's yelling at you the whole game. It's pretty cool. And the way they're doing that is they're actually monitoring the serial bus on these older, like, SAM and Spike-1 systems, and they're able to basically replace the audio. Well, in that case, we could use a system like PinSound to basically display those jackpots on that video display up top. So to give you the idea a little bit better, it's a larger display. It's generally focused on the eyeball, but then it's also celebrating maybe with eyeball effects like those jackpots. And the eyeball follows the ball, right? That too, yes. The hard part, the hard part I mentioned. They're always searching.
    27:15
    Other Ghostbusters. Otherwise, we could really move on to any of these if you guys have key ideas. It looks like our second biggest was Atoms. So Atoms is an interesting one. You guys want me to move on? So Atoms, all the machines came with a topper. Is that correct to say that? Yes. Many of those toppers are broke, but not enough to say, like, hey, we've got to have another topper.
    27:37
    But, you know, it's such a popular machine. There's so many, which is important to us for our business. It's like the volume needs to be there. I think it's what, 20,000? Rich, correct me, do you know?
    27:48
    Adams? 21,000. So very popular machine. It predated Twilight Zone, right? Yep. So you've got a topper that people generally like. I like it. but there's so much interactivity in that game. That game is relatively straightforward from a rule set. It would be really cool to kind of highlight some certain things. So we've got some ideas on that one. Before we share it, maybe we can get some ideas from the field. Do you guys have anything? Oh, yeah. Pull up the game.
    28:31
    All right. Anybody like to share? Adams. Come on, Davey, you promised you were going to talk. Yes, sir. So I've had apps for a long time. I love the topper. I love one of the first games that really had that wow. I love the jackpot and the sound building and the light building of the topper. And I think what I just popped into my head would be something where you can replace that functionality when you buy the new toppers, you have the mode somehow can also do that, like the really bright lights and crescending building of things, and even how it can even outdo what that does. And then add, the address of all these, the ability to also call out noise and things like that. So in a sense, how it does what the original topper does, but it also replaces the functionality that other people felt about the existing. And would you imagine the design still being relatively the same. It's just kind of like light is building.
    29:37
    Oh, fair enough. Well, I mean, honestly, one of the greatest ideas, if I say greatest, I just can't think of a better word. I love this topper. And this is the very first game I've owned, right? Like this is a soft spot for me. I don't really want to replace it. Explain what's going on with the top. So it's just an extension of the back glass. You know, it's the top of the mansion, right? And it's the clouds and it's the steeples and the windows up top. But it's also the reflection of the main mansion in the game in the play field.
    30:09
    Well, it lights. You know, the clouds light up in the multi-ball. Okay. Yeah. Usually it's too yellowed for me to see that. Yellowed or smoky. Like in the ballroom, it used to be a smoking bar and their topper was disgusting. but I still love this design but it doesn't mean we couldn't make it more interactive, more 3D. If you just recreated the clouds, I don't know if anyone saw the Funhouse topper that they have down, what's the booth by it? Do you know the name of it? It's fast coding. Well, they're vacuum formed clouds, right? And they look exceptionally and they look beautiful when the lights are back behind them. There's no doubt you could create a cooler cloudscape than just that clear plastic. And then you can make the 3D elements of the mansion easily. But to your point, how do you make it in an experience? How do you create that crescendo of light building through those clouds? That's an interesting problem. The storm taking effect on top of your game could be a really cool idea and still honor the tradition of what is, like, this is the granddaddy, right? So this one's really tough for us to think about doing because you kind of don't want to mess with what's almost like perfect in a weird way. The first thing I thought when I was on the list, I'm like, well, no one's going to buy that. That's what we said.
    31:35
    Yeah. It's lightning that makes the game, too. Like, the magnets? Yeah, the power. Yeah. So you can just go, I can't even do that. Whenever the power grabs the ball, it's like lightning bouncing back and forth maybe between the two clouds or something. It's like a magnetic power.
    31:57
    Yeah. I think it would be – part of what I think we're tapping here is it needs to do more than just the multi-ball sequence, right? It should be a bigger part of the game.
    32:08
    I'm curious. Does anybody know what the resale value is on these toppers? Because, I mean, there's a lot of people that don't have them. And has anyone ever tried to buy one or sell one? They're remaking that. They're remaking that? OK. They're buying it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think this one is going to have to be a home run to work, right? Like with Twilight Zone, there wasn't a lot of options. That was a key choice for us With this one one of the ideas we had was creating effectively a cuckoo clock style house on the top where windows and doors open up which would be a home run right? But then, of course, you've got the building on the back glass already, so now you've got another whole building on top of it. So there's some interesting challenges with this one for sure in that sense.
    32:53
    Other ideas? Yeah. If you're going to do anything with the atmosphere, you have to be careful because the top row is the only place on the back box with the name of the game is. Very interesting. Yeah.
    33:05
    Shit. You got on the side of the game. We said we weren't going to cuss, and that got him there real quick.
    33:15
    Sometimes you just need someone to present it that way. All right. So let's just for fun come to a screeching halt on that one, unless we got another idea. Yeah, go ahead, Rich. Yeah, yeah, and that's a key thing in the middle, but it's not really that well done as far as community games. That would be really cool for sure. Maybe we could bring that Tesla coil to life and actually have the lightning coming out of the hat. Does anyone here have an Adams without a topper?
    33:55
    No? Everyone's got a topper? All right. It's good to know. All right. Yeah, so we kind of added some of these because, you know, we wanted to kind of get a mix of different manufacturers. Oh, Flash Gordon came out with that up there. That's a cool one.
    34:08
    Does anybody have ideas on any of these that are on the board that they want to share? Someone came by the booth earlier and wanted to talk about Indiana Jones. Are they not in this crowd? I told them about the panda, didn't I? No, I should talk to this tribe. yeah that's that's it there's a lot of there's a lot of good toppers for indy right um i i at one point said i was never going to do another ball because like it's been really hard to make that ball go on twilight zone it's been a lot of work but i think you know that's something to where that that kinesthetic level so with indy you know one thing that comes up a lot is like the ball rolling down the hill, right? And, like, imagine if that was on the topper. I mean, I think there could be a case for someone who sat on the fence for these great toppers. It's like it's time to pull the trigger, right? And, of course, you know, if you love this topper, resale. So that's one idea. I mean, I think we've kind of struggled with, like, really key Indy ideas. Let's pull it up. Let's get into Indy. I want to hear people's thoughts on Indy. So it was only a 10% of the votes. I doubt there's many hands going to raise. But did anyone have any ideas for Indy that they'd be willing to share? Sir? Can you put all three jackpot items there, which have the stone? Sure. Yeah, those would be certainly doable. I've thought about just even as simple as just having the stones with the one, two, three stripes, you know, just indicating that. But it just seems so obvious. And obvious isn't the goal, right? when I think about Indiana Jones and this title in particular, it's all the movies it's the best movies anyway, it's all three of the good ones and you want to bring in elements of all those to life in some shape, way or form and it keeps coming into my head it's almost like an Indiana Jones obstacle course in a weird way the boulder has got to be part of it as much as it's going to make his life a living hell, we've got to figure it out so the boulder chasing something around, the bridge scene with the swinging rope bridge is obviously a piece of it.
    36:23
    The mine shaft scene, 100%, right? Maybe I'm alone in this, but I still also have this idea of a monkey where its head pops off and you've got the monkey brain scene. I just love that scene. The dinner sequence to me is one of my favorite parts of that stupid movie. The snake belly opening up and all the baby snakes coming out. We're not going to do that. I hate snakes. But there's so much fun stuff in that. The Holy Grail and the third one, the invisible walkway. I don't know how you bring half of this stuff to life. But this one to me seems like it needs to be an amalgamy of all the movies. And I think that's the way it makes the most sense. Going back to the earlier part of the present, this is like one of those instances where it's about the theme more than I think it's the game in an idea for the topper. It's more a celebration of the theme of Indiana Jones before the fourth and that fifth movie came out. I didn't even watch the fifth one, so maybe it's good, but I don't know.
    37:25
    All right, Indy, we're super curious about this one, so I'd love to hear any other thoughts you guys have.
    37:37
    Yeah, yeah. Meaning not the ones that already exist, the arc, you're not talking. I mean, small people doing things. Yeah. There is certainly a couple people. Good. Yeah. Someone needs to do it. Yeah. A lot of people are focused always on the arc, because it's such an obvious sort of topical structure. It's not symmetrical.
    38:01
    You know, you can't do it in gold. Sure. Yeah. I think this one actually lends itself nicely to what we do from the IP standpoint. There's so many iconic things in it that don't require the character, right? so I think this is actually something that would be in our wheelhouse yet it's one of those ones where we have so many ideas for it I don't know that we come across like what's the right one where other ones where it's very clear what we want to do so Lord of the Rings is a great example of that so one thing to keep in mind too just as you guys watch our progress and have opinions on what we decide to do roughly 15% maybe 10% depending on the batch of our Twilight Zone topper are going to people who don't own the Twilight Zone pinball machine. So a lot of them, they have this nostalgia of, again, they no longer have. A lot of them just aren't going to pull the trigger on it, but love what it does. And we actually have built in switches to allow you to operate that independently of the machine. So I don't know if this applies to the Indiana Jones, but just so you guys kind of You know, like we're thinking about like what are the things that people would want for their bar to celebrate, you know, these games.
    39:45
    And in a lot of cases, you know, they may just be a fan of that theme and they may not even be into pinball and there could be a market for that type of thing. So that's something that's part of our process.
    39:54
    We've got about less than five minutes. Yep. Four. Someone put in Flash Gordon, right? Someone put in Flash Gordon. I want to hear what they were thinking. Not that they just You had an idea for a topper What is it? Who's going to be the brave soul in a minute that they put in Flash Gordon?
    40:13
    Anyone? Bueller? Seriously, nobody What's a key element of the game? I have no idea, I've never played it I was hoping that's why they got to speak up Anybody tell us a key element of a Flash Gordon gameplay?
    40:29
    Flying monkeys The barbarian with wings is what I remember. Whatever that glider thing you ride in. A chariot? Yeah, like a flying chariot. I mean, I've seen some of these machines. These are often beautifully redone. So I think one thing we would love is to augment some of these older machines. Sometimes when we think about older machines, we think about what people would be willing to spend for those machines relative to the price of the machine, while still kind of maintaining that interactivity goal that we have. That was $25,000. Okay, well, take that back. Oh, that's eBay prices.
    41:21
    But, yeah, any thoughts? For the folks coming in, we're talking about topper ideas. We build toppers, so we're brainstorming different ideas. So we're just kind of wrapping up. Good to see you here.
    41:35
    Any other just general ideas anybody would like to share? Were you late to the game, or did you just come in? We didn't know the names of these.
    41:50
    Nice. So who are those people that you just saw? Yeah. Nice. It sounds obscure enough to get around the IP part. No one cares about that too much.
    42:08
    All right. Wrap it up. All right, guys. Thank you so much. Again, we have a booth. We're kind of when you come in, we're a little bit on the right. We'd love for you to come by and just learn about some of the tech we're building. We'd love to have your feedback. Our Godzilla topper, our first batch for that is on Saturday at 12 o'clock. So you can pick that up on our website. We're going to be selling that, again, 30. And then we've got a wait list for Twilight Zone, but we're getting some out to the next batch probably in early of 2024. So we can get that into your hands. None of our toppers are limited at this point, so we can get it to you if you'd like it. Anything? We're running a show special, 50 bucks off. Yeah, so if you'd like to get on the list, Chris wants in on that, we can get you on the list for $50 off. We've got actually just 10 units reserved for this, and we've gone through a couple of them so far. But we can get you in before December 15th on this current batch if you guys want to pick it up. The retail on that is $16.29, so it's normally a $100 deposit for that, but it would be $50, and then the final amount is due when it's ready to ship.
    43:18
    All right, thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thank you.