Hey everyone, it's Diane. Earlier this season, Matt and Don visited the Richmond Pinball Collective in Richmond, Virginia, Obvi. For full context, you can check out episodes 12 and 13. Today they're talking to one of the co-founders, Clark Fraley. I guess he's apparently my nemesis now? Any hoodle, enjoy. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Check out the video version on YouTube where I may be making my first appearance. See you there. So, Clark, when you first reached out to us among your dozens of fan emails, you referred to Diane as our robo-assistant. and well actually she's the one who reads our emails and she was kind of offended um so i was hoping you might be willing to like just clear the air a little bit maybe um apologize well pretty sure it was one email but um you know whatever you think is fair uh i didn't mean to offending one i guess sounds sincere very sincere so don did you see where diane went maybe maybe he can say something to her directly i think um i think she's taking a dump oh but her mic is still on well well hang on yeah let me check her mic is still on so i can hang on one second hey hey diane um can you can you hear me i think i think she can um we have clark here and he has something he needs to tell you okay uh diane hello um didn't know you were robot so i apologize for saying that thinking that um didn't mean to offend but uh i don't know Sometimes you get a gut feeling and sometimes you're wrong. Well, this is awkward. Hi, Clark. Do you think all Canadians are robots? Just because we talk a little different doesn't mean we're robots. You don't know what you're talking about, do you? Fair point. Maybe not, but I mean, I didn't know you were Canadian. Like, I guess, sorry. I guess you didn't turn her mic back off Wow Matt, can you please have a word with her? This is not the first time she's done this I'll talk to her Clark, I'm sorry man We're working on this We need all the help we can get So unfortunately we can't get rid of her Well So she's not just an intern She is paid help Yeah, we don't have an intern Or maybe a slightly paid help. Yeah, we're not going to get into specifics, but she does get paid. She's compensated in some form. Snickers. Brought to you by Gorgar. So let's hear it, man. Let's do it. This is Clark Fraley. You've met him already. I haven't met him yet. I've met Clark a lot. A lot. And I love Clark, man. We've had legit conversations, one IRL and one OTP on the phone. Is that how you do that? Yeah. So Clark is the, is it founder of the Richmond Pinball Collective? Is that the co-founder? I am one of a few co-founders, yes. Of the Richmond Pinball Collective, which we talked about for a couple of episodes earlier. Yeah, I survived. thanks to Clark in part I made it I don't think the collective was to blame for that it was specifically the time fantasy game by the way who owns that time fantasy game is that your game Clark well as a matter of fact yes that's what I thought ever since I've had that game weird things have happened oh I know well I mean that's just the latest occurrence yeah it's pretty freaky uh i don't suggest anybody stare at the back glass for more than about five seconds that snail has some different things going on yeah well as long as you're aware of it and keeping tabs on it i think it'll be fine i keep my distance you know when i have to go in that game for any kind of service work. Gloves, sunglasses. PPE. PPE for pen repair. No doubt about it. You can actually summon the snail. This is like I haven't actually put... You're hearing it here first. We're going to try to put him right there. We'll see if that's safe. Careful. Careful. Watch out. we'll see what happens. I think we're good. Okay. So, Clark, can you tell us a little bit about your amazing background situation? I want to know. In life or behind me? Literally behind you, and then maybe the other thing. We could see a Radical, a Baywatch, and a Jurassic Park Stern. Are these your favorite games? Is there a particular reason they're at your house? So, yeah, these are definitely some of them, 100%, you know, Radical, for instance, you know, if you are a, for, I don't know, I guess you would say I'm a lifelong skateboarder for the most part. Okay. Not so much these days, but every once in a while. And, of course, any skateboard-themed game is going to be on your radar. Heck, yeah. So that was my grail for a long time. Yeah. I feel like it's a lot of people's grill. Yeah, there's not. Because there's not that many of them. Yeah, it's not super rare, but they're definitely uncommon for sure. And this is actually the second one I've had. The first one I had was pretty nice as well. A guy I used to work for in town, the first coin-op job I had, he all of a sudden has one in his showroom. He's got like a home sale, you know, retail showroom as part of his business model. And, yeah, this thing's sitting in this showroom. And I'm like, wait, what's up? What's the deal with that? And so I investigated further, and it's a diamond plate. Oh, that's got to be rare. Which, yeah, the story on those diamond plates before they actually made them a regular production thing, the runs of games, the Corolla games, some of the other ones where they were doing piloting of that sort of process in the field. Supposedly, they're like about 100 games per run. So, yeah, theoretically, as far as I know, it's pretty rare. So, you know, it's a clear-coded game. Yeah, yeah. Now, the other thing about Radical is a lot of them, as far as I know, I think all had factory mylar on the non uh diamond plate ones so a lot of those are actually in pretty nice shape too because they had day one mylar on most of the most of the play field okay i didn't know that i didn't know that yeah so that one uh yeah that one's definitely uh you know bolted to the floor like people say let's get into uh your actual background it might be cool to hear a little bit about kind of how you got into pinball and um how you got into teching and what kind of led you to where you are now yeah no absolutely so what got me into amusements let's just say in general really started with uh collecting home uh classic consoles i guess what you would call it now cool I've got a bunch of those. Yeah, so I was in my 20s. I started collecting Atari 2600s. Nice. Yeah, all the Atari line of stuff, ColecoVision and all that. And then somewhere in that journey, I was like, you know, I should get a real stand-up arcade game, coin-operated and all that. At that time, you would look in the trading post, there was no craigslist there was no facebook marketplace for any of that stuff we talking like and sometimes 90s here or something around mid 90s or uh yeah yeah yep mid 90s and um uh picked up my first two i believe the first two are atari crystal castles which I still love. Nice. And I think the other one was a kangaroo maybe. Okay. But yeah, so then I got those and then it was just like, I was hooked at that point. Yeah. I didn't know anything about repairing them or that kind of stuff. And so that was just kind of take the back door off, peer in, see what's going on in there. and I would clean up the outside started learning how to refurbish them a little bit but anyway that was the beginning and so I got into the classic arcade game collecting hobby for a while and then a natural progression would be maybe I should get one of these pinball machines sure was there like a defining moment for you that made the transition from just regular video games into pinball? Yeah, I mean, had you been into pinball before, or was it just like a spur of the moment, just like a thought, oh, I should get a pinball machine? Not really, I think. So fast forward a few years after starting to collect the arcade games a friend of mine father had a game route and he needed a route guy And so he was like hey you know you clearly like this stuff You should go talk to so-and-so's dad and, you know, maybe he could give you some work and whatever. I'm like, that sounds better than working at coffee shops and whatever. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Not finishing school and trying to play in a rock band that probably isn't going anywhere. Sounds familiar. Yeah. Stings a little bit, doesn't it? So I went. Yeah. Long story short, I got got a job working for a company called Games People Play. They're still in business here in Richmond. a guy named Charles Roland was the owner. And I kind of loosely look at him as my mentor in coin op over the years, or maybe more than loosely. But I learned a lot from him, you know, because I didn't really know much about electronics, certainly as far as like how games work and that sort of thing. Like Charles taught me a lot. So that was a great, great job to have getting in. And so as I was working for him, he had pinball games on the route. And so that's where I sort of got back into it. I mean, I played him a couple times as a kid, but, you know, I would put my money in and all three balls would be gone in like 15 seconds. Yeah, that was my experience as well. I'm going to go back and play 720 and elevator action and it's going to be great. Yeah. And then 2010, my wife and I bought a house and she was like, you know what? Why don't we get a pinball machine? Yes. That's that's a rare thing for. Yeah. A wife say in my personal experience. well so you know laura um you know was uh and she wasn't pinball crazy at that point either and so i was like yeah i think that sounds like a good idea because i still had like a couple arcade games floating around you know at that point i went uh visited my old friend charles that i worked for and um poking around in the back of the shop he's got a bride of pinbot sitting back there that's like completely ripped apart and i was like oh he's got this thing apart maybe i can get a few bucks off you know he won't have to deal with putting it back together he was shopping it out yeah um and so anyway i'm like well what do you want for that thing and uh he gave me a uh fair price of i want to say 700 bucks or something pretty good pretty good which was even at that time a pretty good price. It's like a fire sale or something. Yeah, it's like a $4,000 game or something now, probably. Yeah, even with the dip in the market. At any rate, he was like, yeah. I'm like, okay. Let me know. I'll come by and pick it up or whatever. So he gave me a call later in the week or something. He's like, all right, yeah, if you want to come get this thing, whatever, I'm like, all right, awesome. And I get there, and it's totally done, like fully shopped out, like ready to go. I'm like, I thought he was giving me like an as-it-sits price, not a it's totally done. Maybe this was like an unspoken housewarming gift or something. I don't know. That's awesome. He didn't really say like he was doing you a favor or anything? No, not at all. Nice. So, yeah, that was really cool. So anyway, so we had that in the house for, gosh, five or six years or something like that. So your wife is Laura, right? Yes. And so, yeah, I think she had talked to us a little bit maybe before you had. Yeah, social media. That's right. Yeah, yeah, social media. I'm curious. I'm just putting myself in that situation and thinking about if I brought home A Bride of Pinbot as my first pinball game. and my wife had asked for the pinball game. I'm just thinking about that game. I think my wife would be like, never mind, I'm not interested in pinball anymore. That's funny. I didn't even think about the theme like that. Well, I mean, the innuendo is heavy with that game. It's suggestive, yeah. Yeah, that's very true. It's no Big Bang Bar. It's no Big Bang Bar or Sopranos. There's not literal strippers in the background. Or Stern Playboy. Right, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a notch down from that, yeah. Five or six years, I think, after that, Laura and I went to this place called Flippers by Chiefs. Oh, yeah, yeah. We went to Flippers. You know, your neck of the woods. Yeah. Well, not exactly, but in North Carolina. Well, yeah. So we walk in the door, and the clouds parted, and the sunshine came down, and it was just like this metropolis. So, yeah, we spent a bunch of time there. So that kind of gets us to the segue of League. So I think I was playing Medieval Madness and got some troll champion or some ego award or whatever on there. I took a picture of it and posted it on whatever social media at the time. MySpace I think we were in the Facebook we were probably in Facebook and so this guy Taylor James Rees that's one of our local players he somehow saw it saw that picture and he had been cultivating house league for a number of years in Richmond and he He hit me up. He's like, hey, you want to come play some pinball? Yeah, I would do that. And so anyway, we went over to his house and hung out and, you know, he still has a really nice collection of games in his basement. And, you know, long story short, they ended up joining the league. Cool. And that's what kind of opened the can of worms really at that point, where I started playing competitively, meeting other players. You meet pinball people? Yeah. So then I'm like, okay, so we have one of these. I think I need to feed it after midnight and see if it'll multiply. And it did, thankfully. And so, yeah, then the home collection started growing. And then Laura went to a local tournament, and she got hooked on the competitive side of it, too. Nice. And so then we're both, you know, playing house leagues. It's all over at that point. You've got the joint effort. Yeah. We combined forces, and, yeah, now all of a sudden the house is filling up with games. Yeah. Yeah, so that's why we are the way we are. yeah don pointed out earlier that i that he's uh my pinball wife or i'm your pinball we're basically a uh pinball we're pinball wives with each other somehow i'm not sure how that works yeah because because we don't have uh you know we don't have that partner that is into pinball yeah yeah so we have to share you know those very like for example playing john wick for the first time. Yeah. You know, we had to wait for each other. It's almost like waiting to watch the next episode of your favorite series. You know, it feels that way. Yeah, I mean, part of that is because we have a podcast too. I'm not complaining. I'm just, you know. It's fun, Pat. I love you. Yeah. I love you too. I love it. And now, very important message. Since coming to Richmond, I've talked to a lot of you and you've told me the same basic thing. You love the rock and roll that we play, but go deeper into the best classic and new album tracks in our library. So that's why we started Deep Cuts, and your response has been great. Tell us what else we can do, and thanks for listening to XL102 and Deep Cuts. XL102 and Deep Cuts. And now, back to the show. I'm really curious how you guys arrived at the collective concept and if there was precedent for that among arcades that you were aware of. So a little bit for sure. So there at that time was a place called the Sanctum up in Connecticut, or still there in Connecticut. That was a pretty well-known pinball arcade that did something kind of like that. There's the pinball co-op in Vermont. that also does something kind of like that, where it's a pinball arcade that's not a coin drop. It's like either a flat rate entrance kind of thing for the day or membership kind of situation. Gosh, we met like every few months or something for quite a few months, just hammering all this stuff out. Like, how are we going to price it? What hours are we going to try to operate? What's the loan agreement? How many of our games are we putting in? How are we staffing it? You know, there's a lot of stuff that we're really, a lot of it kind of doing from scratch. Like, we did take some ideas from the other places, but a lot of it we were either tweaking or, you know, just having to come up without the gate. When abouts was that, Clark? About how long ago? So, the first pop-up arcade, so let's put it this way. So the club has been operating in an actual official capacity for a little over seven years Okay cool cool Now and yeah the planning sessions and pop arcades were happening somewhere between a year to a year and a half prior, I think, roughly. Don't quote me on it. That's a good chunk of time to kind of work things out and as, you know, kind of as you go. I think we kind of went through periods of maybe even a little bit of cold feet on it. I know, just for candor, I was at one point kind of like, I don't know, this just seems like a lot to take on. Sure. Which wasn't a wrong thought. Correct, yeah. But here we are. But yeah, we kind of got reinvigorated and like, all right, we've come this far with it. We've got what we think is a workable model. Let's just sign a year lease if we can and go for it. Cool. Man, Clark, I just want to give you mad props, man, because it terrifies me to think about not even financially, but just the sake of time. I'm so happy to have met you and to have this location, the Richmond Pinball Collective, that we can go to within a couple hours that you're describing right now. That we can play, man. It's awesome. Thanks for doing that. Thanks for having no fear. Well, I mean, folks like you guys that are totally stoked about going to a place like that are the reason that it's still in business. You know, we I mean, we initially did it for ourselves, but also, you know, hoped that that would generate, you know, a bigger scene that did happen over time, too. I think something important to kind of mention as well is, especially for the newer players, the first time that I played in a quote-unquote free play model, right, where you pay like a one-time fee and then everything's on free play, it is a literal game changer. Yeah. Right? Because you can actually relax and you can play the game. Oh, you know, you drain three balls in a row. Okay, let's just hit start again. Let's go again. And that's part of the hype that I feel when I think about you guys as the Richmond Pinball Collective, because that's much needed. I want to go ahead and endorse slash invite anyone within the area to please check you guys out. Richmond Pinball Collective. Yeah. I've been twice now. Those games are in tip top shape. One of the games was malfunctioning, and you literally just ran over there, opened that thing up, and started tweaking. It was awesome, in real time. Having a crew. We had a good crew, board members starting it out so that everybody has different things that they handle. How many founders did you guys start with, and how many people do you have now that are running the Richmond Pinball Collective? Yeah, so we started with five folks, and we now have eight of us on the board. Don't ask me how many volunteers we have. We've got a lot. I think people saw what we were doing and trying to do and realized that this is really, you know, by the people, for the people. and that I think inspired people to want to volunteer because you know we're just trying to you know have a place for each other to come and play yeah I know Don is wondering so I'm going to ask for him do you guys have any Arnold Schwarzenegger style muscle men on your crew to just like throw a machine over his shoulder and move it because it seems seems like you almost have to have that if you're constantly moving all these games around. Who's the strongest person in your crew? How much can they bench? How much can they squat? Well, you know, our strongest member is the Wicco pinball cart. It can bench as much as you want it to, provided you can push the pedal down on it. It's cheating a little bit. Does he have a brother? We're actually in the market for a muscle man ourselves. We're looking for one for our crew. I think they're siblings. I think the Wicco family is very big. This one was almost in retirement, I think. We picked it up. And so, yeah, if you dig around enough, you might be able to find one of his relatives. We had some questions about teching games because clearly you have some experience with that and a lot more than the average person, I would say. But you said you don't have any necessarily electronics background per se, but you learned on the job somewhat, right? Yeah, prior to coming into Amusements, yeah. My dad, when I was a kid, taught me how to strip a wire and maybe put some solder in a soldering iron, something like that. But that was pretty minor. I did actually have to learn a little bit. I almost kind of forget about this. I got my novice ham radio license when I was 10, I think. Nice. Wow. And so you do actually have to learn a little bit. What was your handle? Um, so KC4GBD were my call letters. You didn't really have like CB type handles. Okay, okay, I got it. So nothing colorful like that. Yeah. Uh, I mean, some people would maybe give themselves that too, but yeah, all that, you know, the hams, um, you know, all had a, just like radio stations, you know, it's FCC licensed. So you have to have a specific, you know, uh, call sign. Yeah. um so how many games of how many pinball machines do you think you have worked on different machines like just ballpark is it like i mean it's i mean it's obviously over like 40 are you looking at like a total number yeah like i mean it's got to be is it over 100 different different games okay how many different games yeah just to get an idea of the breadth of your experience with machines. It's got to be a huge number. I will first give you a disclaimer that there are some folks out there that have worked on way, way more machines than me. Sure. That's tough. Maybe not as many as 100. Yeah, it's really hard. We'll just say 100. I have no idea. Okay. Dude, if it's... Just looking at you, Clark, I know it's over 100. I don't know if that's good or bad that sounds bad that's great can you see each wrinkle from each game do I need to change the visual enhancement go back to the smooth smooth myself out the pinball wrinkles I wanted to ask kind of back to the teching stuff a little bit sure So when we were over there, when we were at RPC, we played Wipeout, and we were kind of almost wanted to buy the one that you guys had when you sold it. But we were really curious about the flippers. Like, what did you do to the flippers or whoever? Do you know what happened with the flippers? How do you make – because they were obviously, like, Williams-style flippers, not Gottlieb flippers. Yeah, so I have to check. So Alex is one of our members that loaned that, and I'd have to check in with him. I have worked on that game a little bit, and I believe still had probably rebuilt but original Gottlieb Flipper Max on it. Okay, so it's more just switching out the Flipper bats on those. It was probably like, yeah, rebuilt with new parts and probably pitched, you know, the game pitched properly. Yeah. And those two things certainly could make a game feel great or terrible, depending. Yeah, for sure. You know? We were talking about that because, I mean, you definitely swapped out at least, you know, the bats. Yeah. At least the bats were swapped. Some of the other games, right? I mean, that was like a pretty obvious thing to see, but. Yeah, for sure. So on a lot of the early Solid State Williams games, like Blackout. That Blackout you guys have is beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, that one's actually – so there's a product for listeners that may not be familiar. There's a product called a Hardtop. Okay, that one is Hardtop? All right. Yeah, that Outside Edge makes, and they make them for a bunch of different games. It's basically a polycarbonate layer that has printing of the playfield artwork on the bottom and then also has an adhesive layer on the back of that. And that's what actually allows you to adhere it to the playfield. So Firepower is one of the other ones I have. And some people go back and retrofit drop targets into those. whereas the production model had stand-ups. They actually created it, and the code is written for drop target mechs. And so when I was going to do a hard top on that, I'm like, well, man, I should put drop target mechs in here. Heck yeah. Starting from scratch, the code, it's already there. Yeah, yeah. The only thing that you have to do that can be invasive if you don have an early play field or a reproduction one is they have a 10 point switch that sits behind the drops that you have to route a cove out for okay I was just like do I really need a 10 point switch behind the drop target yeah I don't think I do so I didn't put it in there I'm like I'm not routing that thing out for a 10-point switch. Yeah, yeah. The drop targets are the cool thing. Right, right. There were reports I've read in some old RTP posts about people that had done one and taken it to like Pinball Expo back in the day or something. And, you know, they talked to people about what they thought about it and all this stuff. And I think, you know, back then they thought it maybe slowed the game down a little bit because drop targets generally will absorb some of the momentum of the ball. So the return from the ball is slower. I think this is where the hard top mitigated some of that drop targets with the hard top and it's like perfect that's what I think anyway that's cool man do you have that one at the RPC right now? we do not so I have not taken it's in my multi pen which is a I know we talked about it a little bit it basically is a Williams System 3-6 cabinet that you can put any playfield in. That's awesome. Some of them I've got four playfields. I guess I can jump into this. I was actually going to say this is actually the perfect segue into this because I did have some questions based on our previous conversation. I did want to learn more about the multi-pin and also there was like that Gorgar that you modded, and then there was also, you know, it kind of ties into Expo too, right? Because you're going to be bringing your homebrew plus these modded games, right, into Expo. Yeah, just the multi-pin, yeah. Okay, just the multi-pin, sorry. Yeah, homebrew maybe one day, but yeah, not currently. We don't have to, yeah, you don't have to share if you don't want to share that yet. Well, it will definitely be a skateboard-based something or other. Oh, shoot. We need a modern skate pin. There's so much cool stuff you can do. Why isn't there a Tony Hawk pinball? Well, there were rumors about that with maybe somebody putting that out, but I think that may have been a game that maybe recently came out and not actually a skateboard game. Clark, can I get you? I have no inside information. I'm just going on working off all the rumors I hear everybody else talking about. Clark, can I give you the name? Sure. Radic Clark. For the game? Yeah. I was thinking more just classic Bones Brigade, but, you know, hey, I'm open. My vote is for Radic Clark or Radical 2. Okay. Hey, we can work with that. I know a lot of folks are also kind of like anti-hardtop, but, you know, the way I see it, especially if the game is in an arcade. Yeah. If, you know, I mean, just like me and Don, more people are going to play it, more people are going to enjoy it. Yeah. You know, if you have it at your home and you have, like, your personal collection of kind of your pristine collector's versions and stuff. Yeah. I get it. Do your thing. Yeah, I get it, yeah. I'm kind of, I'm all for kind of making these games more fun. Get them out there and, yeah, kind of bring attention to them again. Yeah. Yeah, I think the, you know, the reservation some folks have but the hard tops is slickness. Yeah, ball rolls a little different. Yeah, and so I think a bunch of us have played games with hard tops, reproduction, clear-coded playfields, whatever. If you have a waxed clear-coded play field, it plays pretty similar. I will not say it's identical. I think there's a little truth to them playing just a little faster, a little slicker, but by no means in any kind of objectionable way per se. Right. My hard top Gorgar is the nasty, you know what I'm saying? I don't know what expletives are allowed on the show, so I'll just leave it at that. Whatever. But I cuss like a sailor sometimes. But anyway. Yeah, you don't have to, you know, don't worry. We can also bleep you if you want to. We'll bleep you. We'll bleep the shit out of you, dude. There we go. okay so uh gorgar yeah is pretty nasty like so we have the one that you played at the club that's an original yeah it's not clear coated um it is cleaned and and with a coat of wax but that one is definitely friendlier is that the gorgar that you modded to have more words yes how so let me ask you a question um how hard was it to teach gorgar extra words was he i mean was he easy to get along with was he how how is he as a so he's he's a little bit of a curmudgeon yeah yeah usually so when we start a session yep if if he hasn't had the requisite number of sacrifices right prior he gets real testy so we're talking like virgin maiden sacrifices that he needs some there's a caliber there's a scale of sacrifice curmudgeon he knows what he likes and if yeah he responds accordingly so the fuse is a little bit shorter with lower grade sacrifice You can't just give him like a Snickers and sacrifice a Snickers to Gorgar. Maybe Snickers satisfies Gorgar. They're packed with peanuts. Packed with peanuts, yeah. So what were the words that you taught him, coerced out of Gorgar? Yeah, I want to know. I would start with syllables. Can we get through two syllables of this three-syllable word? and it was like hooked on Fox with Gorgar. Like we, you know, over time, it's tough. We, we got there. Um, but yeah, not easy. Moody. Uh, I look, I even, I went out one time and got a sacrifice myself. I, we're not going to talk about the legality of it, but I just, I like, if I don't make this happen, the session's not going to happen. Yeah. It's got to happen. So freaking diva, you do what you do. We've really made some headway. You know, We've worked on his vocabulary. I think he might be up to like, we might have got him up to 20 words. Wow. 20 words. Nice. Yeah, man. Look at him. I mean, I bet he's way more coherent now. He's doing great, man. Gorgs, like, I feel so great about him. Yeah. Celebrate Gorgs. All day. Nice job. Shout out to Gorgar. Yeah. Learning all the words. Will we be able to hear Gorgar's expanded vocabulary at any point? You will. If you come to Pinball Expo, I was like, well, if I'm going to go, I should take this thing and let people enjoy it or not enjoy it. We'll see. I will be enjoying it for sure. I think we're going to see you there, man. I don't know if we should officially say that we're going to be there, but I spent a lot of money this last weekend for travel-related stuff. I think we're going to be there. I think we're going to be there. I don't know. Awesome, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd love to sit down and bro out and play some, you know, Gorgar. Gorgar. Man, I wish Gorgar was going to be there. Modified with all his new vocabulary. We are looking forward to it. So my plan right now, Clark, is to bring just like one outfit, and then I'll figure it out when I get there. Yeah, don't shower. Don't use deodorant. Yeah, you know how to do this. thank you uh no actually do not do that and shower every day deodorant uh do not i mean look yeah latest flat uh flatus happens but if you can try to isolate it uh you know hang out hang out a door somewhere to the outside release come back in the building yeah what's going to be Mindful. What's going to be the Expo virus? At NAMM, we have NAMM-thrax, which is the virus that gets everyone sick at NAMM every year. NAMM-thrax is the official name. Yeah. I don't know what the Expo one is. I don't know. It's, you know, pinball crud, show crud, some kind of thing. Hopefully not so much on the COVID front. Yeah, Expo-vid. Yeah. No, we do not want Expo-vid. clark um i from the bottom of my heart i i want to say thanks man thanks for giving us your time and giving your time to put together you know the richmond pinball collective and um you know reaching out to us too right uh letting us know that you know you listen to the show and everything and um you know we're super happy to have you and kind of share your thoughts with everyone. Yeah, man, I think this was awesome. It was great. Yeah, thanks for having me on. I love your show. Well, thank you again, Clark. And we've got to have you back because there's an absurdly endless list of things that we could continue to talk about. I'm always available. I'm already going down the list in my mind of all the things that we could talk about next time. Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess we'll see you at Expo. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll see you at Expo. Absolutely. Thanks. See you, man. All right. Bye, guys.