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Episode 30: Pinball Expo 2025 Recap

In Before the Lock Live Streams·video·1h 14m·held·Oct 28, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Pinball Expo 2025 recap covering homebrews, new releases, and mod market dynamics.

Summary

In Before the Lock hosts Rob and Davey recap Pinball Expo 2025, discussing the homebrew booth lineup (Big Trouble in Little China winning best of show, Monster Hockey, Coming to America), production games (Winchester Mystery House, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Predator), Spooky's Beetlejuice announcement with voice recognition features, their own expanded booth with King Kong topper sales and comparisons to Stern's official Kong topper, and upcoming mods for Kong, Jaws, and D&D.

Key Claims

  • Spooky announced Beetlejuice title dropping November 14th with voice audio recognition technology

    high confidence · Hosts Rob and Davey discussing Spooky announcement; claim that Spooky invested heavily in voice recognition over last 6 months

  • Kyle's Big Trouble in Little China homebrew won best of show for homebrew category at Expo 2025

    high confidence · Rob directly states 'he did uh best of show for the homebrew category which uh is well deserved'

  • Stern's official King Kong topper repeated the main mech (double double building feature) from Godzilla topper

    high confidence · Rob and Paul discussing King Kong topper functionality: 'repeated the the main mech again' and 'it does a double it always double doubles'

  • Monster Hockey is going into production if enough interest is generated via Pinside interest list

    high confidence · Rob states: 'it is going to go into production. So in the in the thread on pin side um they've started to take an interest list'

  • Stern dropped King Kong topper a couple days before Expo 2025, described as underwhelming

    high confidence · Paul explains King Kong topper drop timing: 'a couple of days before the show Stern dropped the King Kong Topper their official King Kong Topper and it was a bit underwhelming'

  • Ryan McQuaid won homebrew topper competition with Sonic Spinball design

    high confidence · Rob: 'Ryan McQuaid who uh designer from American Pinball who did Cuphead... ended up winning with that [Sonic Spinball]'

  • Christopher Franchi created artwork for Spooky's Beetlejuice in similar visual style to Evil Dead

    high confidence · Davey notes Beetlejuice 'looks more sort of in the sort of Evil Dead sort of vein of style... it's Christopher Franchi again'

  • Kyle's Big Trouble in Little China was the second homebrew game he designed

    high confidence · Rob states: 'Kyle's second game. Uh so he's uh he's he's kicking ass'

Notable Quotes

  • “every time you think the homebrew has reached sort of like the pinnacle of what it's capable of, you know, you go to expo the following year and there's more games, the polish is higher, the quality of the games is better”

    Davey@ 11:35 — Reflects on homebrew progression and increasing production quality at successive expos

  • “Kyle's second game. Uh so he's uh he's kicking ass. I don't know what he's got planned next. Um I know he's got lots of people reaching out to him”

    Rob@ 9:26 — Indicates strong industry interest in Kyle as a designer and potential recruitment by manufacturers

  • “the polish the polish on the screen is is topnotch. I mean, he literally has like a match sequence at the end. He has like a high score leaderboard. These are things that shoot, you're not even seeing some of this stuff in production games from the start”

    Rob@ 10:00 — Highlights homebrew quality exceeding some production games, particularly Big Trouble in Little China's software polish

  • “there's a lot of people uh super into their D and D. You got a lot of Metallica topper requests while you're there”

    Paul@ 28:49 — Indicates strong mod demand for specific game themes and the relationship between game theme and buyer behavior

  • “I just thought it was so much more buzzy. There was always people around wanting to talk to you guys. Um, I know you sold a lot of toppers and that's fantastic”

    Davey@ 21:21 — Describes strong foot traffic and sales momentum at Expo 2025 compared to previous shows

  • “I had a very micro display that I put together at the last minute... I tend to use the shows just from a uh catching up with my friends and networking point of view”

Entities

RobpersonDaveypersonKylepersonChristopher FranchipersonRyan McQuaidpersonCarlpersonPaulpersonErnie Silverberg

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo 2025 homebrew booth was significantly larger than previous years with expanded game count, higher polish, and professional production quality approaching commercial releases

    high · Multiple references: 'If you thought the homebrew booth was big at at Expo 2024, this was over the top'; 'every time you think the homebrew has reached sort of like the pinnacle of what it's capable of, you know, you go to expo the following year and there's more games, the polish is higher'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Spooky Pinball has invested heavily (6+ months) in voice audio recognition technology for Beetlejuice, with rumored ability to activate machine via voice command ('Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice')

    medium · Davey: 'my sources tell me that um that Spooky have sort of invested heavily timewise into voice audio recognition over the last 6 months' and speculation about voice activation mechanic

  • ?

    product_strategy: Don's Pinball Podcast ran official homebrew topper competition with prize mix at Expo 2025, legitimizing aftermarket topper design as community activity

    high · Rob: 'Don's pinball podcast uh did a contest where they gave away a bunch of prizes. We were part of that prize uh mix as well... this is Ryan Mcuade who uh designer from American Pinball who did Cuphead... ended up winning with that'

  • ?

    community_signal: Industry manufacturers showing strong interest in recruiting talented homebrew designers; Kyle (Big Trouble in Little China) noted as receiving multiple job approaches

    medium · Rob: 'it's hard to imagine that Kyle's not going to uh you know, get sucked into a pinball company to do to do work because, you know, he's just a he's just a crazy talent'

Transcript

youtube_auto_sub · $0.000

0:16
[music] Heat. [music] Heat. [music] Heat. [music] Heat.
3:00
What's up everybody? Welcome to In
3:00
What's up everybody? Welcome to In Before the Lock where we talk all things pinball mods. And you've got Rob and Davey on episode 30. Davey, we gonna do 30 more of these, man? What's What's the What's the story? Is this this working? >> Yeah, may as well may as well do another
3:13
Yeah, may as well may as well do another
3:13
Yeah, may as well may as well do another 30. See where we're at after 60. >> Oh man, it's uh it's great to be with
3:18
Oh man, it's uh it's great to be with

  • Stumbler (Paul) is working on Kong mods including Skull Waterfalls and spider mechanics

    high confidence · Paul confirms: 'definitely working on some Kong stuff. Um yeah, Skull Waterfalls definitely happening. Um uh we're working on the spider as well'

  • Stumbler sold all 15 Kong toppers brought to Expo 2025

    high confidence · Paul states: 'we had about 15 uh toppers that we brought to the show and those got all got uh picked up'

    • Davey@ 23:52 — Reflects on logistical challenges for European mod makers attending US-based expos

  • “the people who did buy it are you know like D and D lends itself to tabletop gaming to miniatures you know the people who are into D and D tend to be into that kind of thing... you've got to work out are the people who are buying this game going to be the types of people who by mods”

    Paul@ 29:14 — Illustrates strategic thinking about game theme alignment with mod buyer demographics

  • “If you don't leave a pinball show with at least a few regrets, then you're not doing it properly”

    Davey@ 7:48 — Humorous observation about the competitive nature of expos and FOMO among attendees

    • person
    Ricardoperson
    Jake Danzigperson
    Brad Albrightperson
    Brian Allenperson
    Randy Martinezperson
    Scott Danesiperson
    Pinball Expo 2025event
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Barrels of Funcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Big Trouble in Little Chinagame
    Monster Hockeygame
    Winchester Mystery Housegame
    Beetlejuicegame
    In Before the Lockorganization
    $

    market_signal: Strong demand for aftermarket toppers at Expo 2025; Stumbler sold all 15 Kong toppers brought to show, with increased traffic attributed partly to Stern's underwhelming official Kong topper release

    high · Paul: 'we had about 15 uh toppers that we brought to the show and those got all got uh picked up'; Paul explains Stern topper underwhelming release timing contributed to strong aftermarket sales

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern's official King Kong topper drew criticism for repeating the motorized double-building mechanic already featured on Godzilla topper, limiting novelty

    high · Rob and Paul discussing Kong topper: 'they repeated the the main mech again... it does a double it always double doubles. Uh they repeated the the uh just like on Godzilla on the topper again'

  • ?

    product_launch: Spooky Pinball officially announced Beetlejuice release for November 14th with video teaser showcasing translite artwork; artwork by Christopher Franchi

    high · Rob: 'we got uh a heads up yesterday that Spooky has dropped uh the Beetlejuice title and it's coming, I think, on November 14th uh of uh this coming month. So, got a little video clip'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Monster Hockey homebrew features fatigue mechanic where player flippers weaken over game duration; feedback indicated players questioned whether weakening flippers was intended feature or design flaw

    high · Rob: 'they had these really cool features where essentially your players got tired and that decreased your flipper potency... at the same time, nobody wants weak flippers... you sort of question whether it's the game or or or a feature'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Monster Hockey moving from homebrew to limited production run based on Pinside interest list signup; demonstrates path for successful homebrews to reach commercial availability

    high · Rob: 'it is going to go into production... in the in the thread on pin side um they've started to take an interest list um for people who who actually want one of these games and I think if they get a certain number that it is going to go into production'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: D&D theme attracts mod-buying demographic more successfully than sales volume alone suggests; tabletop gaming overlap creates high propensity for machine customization vs. other themes

    medium · Paul discussing D&D mod demand: 'D and D lends itself to tabletop gaming to miniatures... the people who are into D and D tend to be into that kind of thing... are the people who are buying this game going to be the types of people who by mods. And that's a really tricky one to work out, but I think in in D&D's case that um I think D and D lends itself to those types of people'

  • ?

    operational_signal: European mod makers face significant logistical barriers to full booth participation at US expos; storage partnerships with US distributors required for international sellers to compete with local manufacturers

    medium · Davey: 'I sort of can't quite work out how I would do that logistically and bringing all the product over... Nicholas... ends up storing a lot of his product here in a lockup or or with distributors'

    • 3:18
    Oh man, it's uh it's great to be with you guys. Uh we are excited to talk to you about uh Expo uh 2025, our third Expo together. Uh we did some walking around the floor, check some stuff out. Uh unlike last year, we're not going to do like a full-on video, but we're going to play some of the video we took uh at the show. Uh but Dave, man, it was great to see you. Uh you came in. hot and uh [laughter] crashed, I think. Right. >> Yeah, I did, man. Sunday night, I was
    3:44
    Yeah, I did, man. Sunday night, I was
    3:44
    Yeah, I did, man. Sunday night, I was nowhere to be seen. I was like in communicado, turned my phone off. >> We had uh we had a bunch of people
    3:51
    We had uh we had a bunch of people
    3:51
    We had uh we had a bunch of people coming by looking for you on Saturday. >> Oh, no. Yeah. Literally, I went I went
    3:56
    Oh, no. Yeah. Literally, I went I went
    3:56
    Oh, no. Yeah. Literally, I went I went back to my hotel room with the brilliant scheme of just like getting an hour's power nap and then like woke up the next day. So, I completely failed. >> Yeah. All good, man. Well, it was great
    4:07
    Yeah. All good, man. Well, it was great
    4:07
    Yeah. All good, man. Well, it was great hanging out with you. It certainly was some long days and long nights. Um, let us know how how the audio is, folks. If uh there's something we can do to to tweak it, uh, let us know. Uh, but yeah, we're going to we're going to talk about all things expo. The homebrew the homebrew game was off the charts. >> Uh, we had some new very interesting
    4:27
    Uh, we had some new very interesting
    4:27
    Uh, we had some new very interesting titles to play in Winchester. Uh, got a look at Predator. Uh Davey got his hands on Harry Potter, June, and Star Wars for the very first time. We can talk about Star Wars since you and I uh just did our last video on that one. >> That should be a fun conversation.
    4:43
    That should be a fun conversation.
    4:43
    That should be a fun conversation. >> Yeah. Yeah, that'll be a good one. And
    4:45
    Yeah. Yeah, that'll be a good one. And
    4:45
    Yeah. Yeah, that'll be a good one. And then we had some kind of fun stories, controversies going on on the floor. Um, real quick, we got uh a heads up yesterday that Spooky has dropped uh the Beetlejuice title and it's coming, I think, on November 14th uh of uh this coming month. So, got a little video clip, just one clip, I think, right? >> Yeah, I think so.
    5:06
    Yeah, I think so.
    5:06
    Yeah, I think so. >> Kind of revealing though. Kind of
    5:07
    Kind of revealing though. Kind of
    5:07
    Kind of revealing though. Kind of revealing like they showed us the translate effectively, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. Um
    5:12
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. Um
    5:12
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. Um and it looks good, doesn't it? It looks more sort of in the sort of Evil Dead sort of vein of style. I mean, I guess the, you know, it's Frenchie again, isn't it? So, you would expect it to sort of um then be following that same pattern that they did for Evil Dead, but I don't know, man. Are you excited for it? >> Yeah. Yeah. I I guess I guess you're
    5:29
    Yeah. Yeah. I I guess I guess you're
    5:29
    Yeah. Yeah. I I guess I guess you're going to be able to talk to the machine. Um I I can't stand talking to those devices in my home, so I'm not sure. >> I can't stand talking to anybody. I'm
    5:38
    I can't stand talking to anybody. I'm
    5:38
    I can't stand talking to anybody. I'm like antisocial. The last thing I want to do is talk too much. Apparently the rumor on the street is my sources tell me that um that Spooky have sort of invested heavily timewise into voice audio recognition over the last 6 months. So um yeah, so there's definitely I think Canada was the first one, wasn't he, who suggested that you can turn on the machine by saying Beetlejuice, Beetleju, Beetlejuice. So whether that's part of the game or not, I guess we'll have to wait and see. We'll see. I saw a Canadian at the show. He came by our booth. Um I saw he did a podcast with Don. So I guess those guys are cool now. Um he saw his his uh his dream thing theme was Big Trouble in Little China. >> Okay.
    6:22
    Okay.
    6:22
    Okay. >> And uh I was excited for him to see it
    6:25
    And uh I was excited for him to see it
    6:25
    And uh I was excited for him to see it and and Big Trouble in Little China was in our booth and he walks up and I go, "Hey Kyle," because Kyle did the game. >> Yeah. Yeah.
    6:32
    Yeah. Yeah.
    6:32
    Yeah. Yeah. >> He's like, "Hey, this is Chris. He wants
    6:33
    He's like, "Hey, this is Chris. He wants
    6:33
    He's like, "Hey, this is Chris. He wants to check out your game." He's like, "Canada?" No. No. [laughter] Obviously,
    6:43
    he was super he was super cool with it, but it was >> okay. That's probably the That's
    6:45
    okay. That's probably the That's
    6:45
    okay. That's probably the That's probably the right approach to meeting Canadia for the first time, isn't it? Like, you know, um this playing >> I don't even think you got to play it,
    6:54
    I don't even think you got to play it,
    6:54
    I don't even think you got to play it, man. I mean, the line was insane. You didn't get a >> I feel So, Kyle, if you ever end up
    6:59
    I feel So, Kyle, if you ever end up
    6:59
    I feel So, Kyle, if you ever end up watching um this stream uh either live or on record, I'm so sorry, man. like you know we had some great chats uh me and Kyle and I got to talk to him a lot about the game and um you know a lot about sort of uh you know why he made certain decisions on the game and um you know and I'm I'm just so in awe of uh the amount of time and effort uh that went into this and how he was able to pull this together over such a short period of time. Um but unfortunately m I didn't I didn't get to play it. Um, every time I was over there, um, both Kyle and I looked at the line and it was probably a good 10 people deep and I'll be like, I'll I'll get on to it later. I'll come in the morning or whatever it is. Um, and unfortunately, I just didn't didn't get an opportunity. So, that's one of my big regrets. But look, if you don't leave a pinball show with at least a few regrets, then you're not doing it properly. [laughter] >> Yeah, it it was really cool. I got to
    7:54
    Yeah, it it was really cool. I got to
    7:54
    Yeah, it it was really cool. I got to play it three or four times by the end of the show because I had to stand him stand in the line, of course. Um he actually he had learned a lot from how he had his Friday the 13th game set up and that he allowed you to get to some of the multiballs a lot faster. So the code that he had on there was kind of show specific. Okay. >> Um so people could get kind of deep into
    8:14
    Um so people could get kind of deep into
    8:14
    Um so people could get kind of deep into the game. But yeah, it feels amazing. Uh it it won uh best of show for the homebrew category which uh is welld deserved and just an overall really really amazing package and we were honored to you know be a part of it in terms of helping out with the topper um as well. I got I've got a little bit of video on it. I mean I think probably most of you guys have seen it at this point. >> Uh I'm going to be jumping to a little
    8:38
    Uh I'm going to be jumping to a little
    8:38
    Uh I'm going to be jumping to a little bit of bit video as we go as we go throughout. But yeah, the the the the overall package was just incredible. He had artwork from Brian Allen as well as Randy Martinez uh on this. I think Randy did uh can't remember his last project. Uh but he's done a number of Stern uh machines. Then he had uh a big trouble in Little China fan art for the translite. Uh but it it play it ran really well throughout the entire show. Uh there's Kyle there. Um I think we're past the Canada moment by this point. [laughter] Um but [clears throat] yeah, it was sound Say that again. >> Scott Denise on sound.
    9:18
    Scott Denise on sound.
    9:18
    Scott Denise on sound. >> Scott Denise on sound. Yep. And yeah,
    9:20
    Scott Denise on sound. Yep. And yeah,
    9:20
    Scott Denise on sound. Yep. And yeah, Kyle's second game. Uh so he's uh he's he's kicking ass. I don't know what he's got planned next. Um I know he's got lots of people reaching out to him, but overall uh really really cool to to give that a shot. >> I mean, it's hard to imagine that Kyle's
    9:35
    I mean, it's hard to imagine that Kyle's
    9:35
    I mean, it's hard to imagine that Kyle's not going to uh you know, get sucked into a pinball company to do to do work because, you know, he's just a he's just a crazy talent. Um yeah, and just gets just gets stuff done, doesn't he? Like he's just very very capable um human being. So, you know, big ups to Kyle. He's just doing incredible work. >> The the polish the polish on the screen
    9:56
    The the polish the polish on the screen
    9:56
    The the polish the polish on the screen is is topnotch. I mean, he literally has like a match sequence at the end. He has like a high score leaderboard. These are things that >> shoot, you're not even seeing some of
    10:04
    shoot, you're not even seeing some of
    10:04
    shoot, you're not even seeing some of this stuff in production games from the start. Uh very well done. And I mean, I can I can refer to many that don't have that stuff polished and probably never will. Uh, and his stuff has that. So, definitely definitely hats out to him. Um, homebrew wise, uh, also just like insane setup. So, if you thought the homebrew booth was big at at Expo 2024, this was over the top. Uh, kudos to, and I'll play a little bit of get a little bit of video going on this. Uh, kudos to the Marco team, uh, um, Emoto as well as the Fast team with Aaron Davis. Uh, Ernie was a big part of it. Uh, so many people, I'm sure, were throwing in on that experience, as well as all the amazing homebrews. I mean, the the quality level is is is over the top. Uh, this is the Monsters, Inc. machine from Ernie Silverberg, >> uh, who also worked on the Motherload
    10:57
    uh, who also worked on the Motherload
    10:57
    uh, who also worked on the Motherload machine. And then, yeah, I mean, what was your what was your impression? I'll let this kind of play, but uh >> um walking through the behemoth
    11:05
    um walking through the behemoth
    11:05
    um walking through the behemoth >> like Yeah, every Oh, and that's the uh
    11:07
    like Yeah, every Oh, and that's the uh
    11:07
    like Yeah, every Oh, and that's the uh the Harry Potter, isn't it? Is that right? Yeah, it is. >> It wasn't It wasn't on here.
    11:11
    It wasn't It wasn't on here.
    11:11
    It wasn't It wasn't on here. >> Uh I did get I did get a couple of balls
    11:13
    Uh I did get I did get a couple of balls
    11:13
    Uh I did get I did get a couple of balls on it. Um luckily um until uh it had a Oh, that's a machine rebooting the background. [laughter]
    11:27
    Um, yeah. I mean, that's a fantastic Look, every time you think the homebrew has reached sort of like the pinnacle of what it's capable of, you know, you go to expo the following year and there's more games, the polish is higher, the quality of the games is better. Um, you know, and I mean, these these are essentially very close to being production level games. Probably the only thing stopping them from being production level is the amount of stuff that's in them. You know, they're probably uneconomical to turn into production games as they are. Um but you know these are all professionally this is so this is the uh coming to America um game we we talked lot to what was your friend's name >> Ricardo. Yeah love lovely guy. This is
    12:08
    Ricardo. Yeah love lovely guy. This is
    12:08
    Ricardo. Yeah love lovely guy. This is his first ever attempt at a home brew and it's just I mean it wasn't playing at uh at this expo was it? But um probably will be by the time of TPF. >> Yeah he did have the cabinet there but
    12:20
    Yeah he did have the cabinet there but
    12:20
    Yeah he did have the cabinet there but it was it was coming along. I did see a lot of the Stern guys in line to play it at one point. Uh so I think he had it going. Uh but also this is sitting in in the uh Fast booth. So Fast does a lot of the uh controller systems for homebrew games and they're a big sponsor of this booth and uh supporter of these guys. Nick Aaron actually drove from Washington State all the way across the country, picked up like five or 10 homebrew pinball machines to bring to the show in Chicago >> and then drove back. Um, so he's uh he's
    12:51
    and then drove back. Um, so he's uh he's
    12:51
    and then drove back. Um, so he's uh he's an amazing supporter of the space. >> Uh, that's Ricardo right there. Captain
    12:57
    Uh, that's Ricardo right there. Captain
    12:57
    Uh, that's Ricardo right there. Captain America. >> Yeah.
    12:58
    Yeah.
    12:58
    Yeah. >> And that's Davey's face. This is the
    13:01
    And that's Davey's face. This is the
    13:01
    And that's Davey's face. This is the [laughter] Did you get to play this? This was uh >> I didn't, mate. No, I didn't. I didn't
    13:05
    I didn't, mate. No, I didn't. I didn't
    13:05
    I didn't, mate. No, I didn't. I didn't get to play it. >> The the video online of this thing is
    13:08
    The the video online of this thing is
    13:08
    The the video online of this thing is incredible. It looks really cool with the lights going, but it's like a tabletop game, and you actually like kind of hug it to play it. Uh, which is really fun. Um, and couple couple Adventure Time games. >> Yeah.
    13:21
    Yeah.
    13:21
    Yeah. >> Uh, they had Sonic Spinball by
    13:25
    Uh, they had Sonic Spinball by
    13:25
    Uh, they had Sonic Spinball by >> Ryan McUade,
    13:27
    Ryan McUade,
    13:27
    Ryan McUade, >> uh, who who actually won the homebrew
    13:29
    uh, who who actually won the homebrew
    13:29
    uh, who who actually won the homebrew uh, Topper contest. We'll talk about that. >> Oh, okay. Right. That's interesting.
    13:33
    Oh, okay. Right. That's interesting.
    13:33
    Oh, okay. Right. That's interesting. >> Um, there was there was this was another
    13:36
    Um, there was there was this was another
    13:36
    Um, there was there was this was another player game that was really fun. >> Uh, there was the really uh really
    13:41
    Uh, there was the really uh really
    13:41
    Uh, there was the really uh really popular uh monster hockey game, which we'll show you guys. Yeah, we should have a bit of a chat about that because that was uh >> um you know besides uh Big Trouble in
    13:52
    um you know besides uh Big Trouble in
    13:52
    um you know besides uh Big Trouble in Little China um and it's probably incorrect to be talking about this now while we're looking at these other games, but um Monster Hockey just had a lot of attention all show, didn't it? I mean, it had an amazing um display. There was like a big sign with artwork by Brad Albbright. Um the artwork on the game was done by Brad Albbright as well. Um uh is it is it Jake Jake Danzig who who did the design work on monster hockey um and >> uh and you know it was a beautiful
    14:24
    uh and you know it was a beautiful
    14:24
    uh and you know it was a beautiful playing game. So the idea is is a is a ice hockey head-to-head um game in much the same way as the uh the old uh uh what's what was the one that was at uh TPF? So, it's like this the football um >> uh Yeah, the Alvin Gvin.
    14:44
    uh Yeah, the Alvin Gvin.
    14:44
    uh Yeah, the Alvin Gvin. It was actually a rethe, >> right? Okay. Yeah. I didn't realize
    14:50
    right? Okay. Yeah. I didn't realize
    14:50
    right? Okay. Yeah. I didn't realize >> I've got it. Yeah. Okay, here we go. So,
    14:52
    I've got it. Yeah. Okay, here we go. So,
    14:52
    I've got it. Yeah. Okay, here we go. So, so this was really fun. I mean, they had an amazing booth set up. Uh but the Brad Albbright, did you mention Brad did the artwork on this one? Uh some of the gals that have the mohawks that you often see, they're in the artwork. Um, and this was this was just a ton of fun. U Dave and I did end up getting to play >> I can't remember who won that game
    15:11
    I can't remember who won that game
    15:12
    I can't remember who won that game though, Rob. Do you do you remember? >> I don't even remember either. I played
    15:15
    I don't even remember either. I played
    15:16
    I don't even remember either. I played Alec as well. I had a little bit of a bug that uh tripped us up. So, I can't remember. But it was it was cool. >> I mean, it was I think there was some
    15:24
    I mean, it was I think there was some
    15:24
    I mean, it was I think there was some talk of like this play speed could have been sped up. So, there was a little bit of like feedback they were getting on how >> Well, yeah. So, so essentially, yeah,
    15:32
    Well, yeah. So, so essentially, yeah,
    15:32
    Well, yeah. So, so essentially, yeah, that that was a bit of a problem in the show setup um was that um it probably took a took a while to get a game because the the three periods sort of were about 2 minutes each. So, it's about six minutes a game no matter what you do. Um so, that's kind of a bit bit tricky in a show setup. Um, and also like in terms of um, they had these really cool features where essentially your players got tired and that decreased your flipper potency, you know, so your flippers became weaker as the game went on, which is a really cool idea, but at the same time, nobody wants weak flippers. So it was a bit of a bit of a funny sort of concept I think because you sort of you sort of question whether it's the game or or or a feature and had to be explained that that was that actual feature. But one of the um really cool aspects about uh Mons League Hockey is that it is going to go into production or at least if they get enough interest it's going to go into production. So in the in the thread on pin side um they've started to take an interest list um for people who who actually want one of these games and I think if they get a certain number that it is going to go into production. So if you did get to play it at expo and you were really keen on it um and you want one for your house um then yeah jump on the pinside thread and make it known because it would be really really cool if um you know there were some of these out in the wild eventually. Um, and you know, it's it's a it's a tricky one cuz um it's obviously a two-player game. So, for people who play pinball on their own, which is a lot of us, it's not it's not going to be suitable for a lot of games rooms. Um, but you can imagine it at uh at parties, you know, kids playing each other and, you know, it was getting a lot of attention um for from younger generation people playing each other. Um, and that's a really cool thing that pinball needs. So, you know, I'm I'm a I'm a I'm a big fan of of this work and I hope um I hope it sees the light of day. >> Yeah. And the in the Alvin the original
    17:25
    Yeah. And the in the Alvin the original
    17:25
    Yeah. And the in the Alvin the original Alvin G game, which I think was from the 80s or 90s, it actually had a oneplayer version, it has these interesting metal bars that sit over the flippers. So, whenever the ball hits the flipper, it flips. Um, now it's not something you probably are going to have a ton of fun with, but it's definitely definitely neat. But just the form factor, I think, in the right size collection, uh could be could be really cool to have. I mean, again, the polish is just off the charts. So, definitely a cool one to check out. Um, I think I mean, there was there was so many homebrews. I wish we had a little bit more video. Uh, but I'll also call out the fact that there was a homebrew topper uh competition as well. So, Don's pinball podcast uh did a contest where they gave away a bunch of prizes. We were part of that prize uh mix as well. And uh this is uh the one that won ultimately. This is Ryan Mcuade who uh designer from American Pinball who did Cuphead. We'll see what happens with that. Uh but Ryan did Sonic Spinball in the homebrew booth and he ended up winning with that. But there was some other really cool stuff. Um this is a topper for D and D that you can pick up from the Pinball Scientist. He actually sells uh this one uh in a limited production. And then we had a really cool Godzilla one. Um, and uh this the Batman 66 remake. Uh, this is Don's uh King Kong topper that he did. And then [laughter] this is Don's X-Men topper that he did. >> And there was a really interesting Oh,
    18:55
    And there was a really interesting Oh,
    18:55
    And there was a really interesting Oh, yeah. Here we go. The Wo Nelly [laughter] topper. That one's really cool. Um, so >> if you're into pinball, you've probably
    19:02
    if you're into pinball, you've probably
    19:02
    if you're into pinball, you've probably done a homebrew topper. I think most people that are into pinball have done something. But uh Don and Rob Burke partnered to really kind of blow this out this year. So that was that was really fun. >> Yeah. Very cool idea. I hope they hope
    19:14
    Yeah. Very cool idea. I hope they hope
    19:14
    Yeah. Very cool idea. I hope they hope they do it on subsequent shows as well because uh it's a very very cool idea. >> Yeah. So um
    19:21
    Yeah. So um
    19:21
    Yeah. So um what what's next? What do you what do you want to hit next? And >> well let's talk about let's talk about
    19:25
    well let's talk about let's talk about
    19:25
    well let's talk about let's talk about your um let's talk about your booth, man. I mean it was very exciting this year. Um >> we uh we had a lot of fun a lot of fun
    19:34
    we uh we had a lot of fun a lot of fun
    19:34
    we uh we had a lot of fun a lot of fun with our booth. Uh, this video is up on our Instagram. I think that's uh George Pro, the coder for Pulp Fiction playing along with Roger Sharp and then Joe Kamikow. So, tons of tons of big names in pinball playing the game. Check it out. So, that was >> there's Alec filling with his nuts.
    19:55
    there's Alec filling with his nuts.
    19:55
    there's Alec filling with his nuts. [laughter] >> Um, and this is a this is a bigger booth
    19:59
    Um, and this is a this is a bigger booth
    19:59
    Um, and this is a this is a bigger booth than you've ever had at any other show, isn't it? So, a lot more work to games. the tents, but we we kind of took it to another level this year. >> Yeah, man. I was I was so impressed with
    20:10
    Yeah, man. I was I was so impressed with
    20:10
    Yeah, man. I was I was so impressed with it. You know, you had you had these uh really great signs uh showing electric playground up in the sort of the ceiling area. Um a little sitdown area here where people could go head-to-head on this amazing rotating uh pinball machine. Who'd you pick that one up from? >> So, Mad Pinball brought that. They're a
    20:27
    So, Mad Pinball brought that. They're a
    20:28
    So, Mad Pinball brought that. They're a distributor that carries our toppers and they brought it along. Uh it actually four players sit at it and between each ball the entire playfield rotates. So everyone uses the same flippers but the flippers rotate uh to your spot. So it's it's just a really cool experience. Very very rare game. >> Um and uh then we had Alice, which was
    20:49
    Um and uh then we had Alice, which was
    20:49
    Um and uh then we had Alice, which was the only one of three Alice's on the booth. The only Alice that wasn't uh in the uh main Alice booth and it was in a unique lighting setting. um got a lot of comments about being able to experience the lighting on that and people really enjoyed it. We had of course had our topper on it so that was cool. >> Yeah,
    21:09
    Yeah,
    21:09
    Yeah, >> overall a great show. I mean a lot of
    21:11
    overall a great show. I mean a lot of
    21:11
    overall a great show. I mean a lot of traffic um in general. Uh I don't know how did you feel about it this year compared to previous ones? >> Uh I mean I just thought it was I just
    21:20
    Uh I mean I just thought it was I just
    21:20
    Uh I mean I just thought it was I just thought it was so much more buzzy. There was always people around wanting to talk to you guys. Um, I know you sold a lot of toppers and that's fantastic. Um, you know, and I we were sort of talking a little bit about sort of I guess why why this was such a bigger show for you guys. Um, and you know, I think it's I think it's sort of uh multifaceted really. I mean, obviously you had a bigger you had a bigger area. It was it was sort of laid out really well. It was a nice place to hang out. It was really easy to hang out there. There was always a lot of people around. You had Kyle with Big Trouble in Little China sort of off on the corner which was always getting a lot of attention. So I think the footfall from Big Trouble sort of then sort of filtered through to the tent as well. Um >> and and you know I think I think as well
    22:04
    and and you know I think I think as well
    22:04
    and and you know I think I think as well probably in terms of you know the sales and stuff you know the elephant in the room is that um you know maybe a couple of days before the show Stern dropped the King Kong Topper their official King Kong Topper and it was a bit underwhelming. >> Yeah, you know all that all that
    22:22
    Yeah, you know all that all that
    22:22
    Yeah, you know all that all that contributed to it. I think having just more stuff for people to buy. I I thought, you know, the market is like we're always kind of analyzing it as mod makers or sellers of games and you you'd think sometimes the market is soft at different points, but you know, a lot of people were picking stuff up. I think seeing it in person, you know, a lot of people are waiting to see these things. Uh the Kong topper, we got a lot of comments on, you know, comparing our topper to the King Kong topper. uh both at a price point level because the stern one is quite a bit more and then also just like >> it's interesting that they
    22:54
    it's interesting that they
    22:54
    it's interesting that they >> functionalitywise, you know,
    22:56
    functionalitywise, you know,
    22:56
    functionalitywise, you know, >> repeated the the main mech again. Wow,
    22:59
    repeated the the main mech again. Wow,
    22:59
    repeated the the main mech again. Wow, you got a lot of updates coming through over there. >> It does a double it always
    23:03
    It does a double it always
    23:03
    It does a double it always >> double doubles. Uh they repeated the the
    23:06
    double doubles. Uh they repeated the the
    23:06
    double doubles. Uh they repeated the the the uh >> just like on Godzilla on the topper
    23:09
    just like on Godzilla on the topper
    23:09
    just like on Godzilla on the topper again. So, a lot of comments on that. You know, a lot of people did do like it though and um that's that's fine. But yeah, we had about 15 uh toppers that we brought to the show and those got all got uh picked up. >> That's great, man. That's great.
    23:24
    That's great, man. That's great.
    23:24
    That's great, man. That's great. >> Dave, you had you had a little bit of a
    23:25
    Dave, you had you had a little bit of a
    23:26
    Dave, you had you had a little bit of a display going on. >> I had a little bit of a display. Yeah.
    23:30
    I had a little bit of a display. Yeah.
    23:30
    I had a little bit of a display. Yeah. >> Yeah.
    23:30
    Yeah.
    23:30
    Yeah. >> I felt Yeah. Yeah. I I I had a very
    23:33
    I felt Yeah. Yeah. I I I had a very
    23:34
    I felt Yeah. Yeah. I I I had a very micro display that I put together at the last minute. when I was talking to um Nicholas from Pinound about it and stuff, you know, being another sort of European mod maker who does come out to the shows and Nicholas obviously goes to a lot more effort than than I tend to do. Um I tend to use the shows just from a uh catching up with my friends and networking point of view. uh mainly because you know actually having a booth or or a desk or whatever it would be at the show and selling product I sort of can't quite work out how I would do that logistically and bringing all the product over. Um but Nicholas sort of does does try to do that. Um and he ends up storing a lot of his product here in a lockup or or with distributors and then and then brings it to the show. But even then, he still feels very much like he's uh the poor cousin, you know, with everybody with their big, you know, rigs, you know, and banners and lighting >> stuff. I mean, if we weren't four hours
    24:37
    stuff. I mean, if we weren't four hours
    24:37
    stuff. I mean, if we weren't four hours from Chicago, I don't think we could pull off anywhere as close to what you just saw. >> Yeah. And and you know, I saw you I saw
    24:43
    Yeah. And and you know, I saw you I saw
    24:43
    Yeah. And and you know, I saw you I saw your rig as you left, you know, it was a massive trailer, you know, and you know, you you know, it's a it's a huge undertaking, you know, even for you. So to do it remotely is, you know, almost impossible. So, you know, I'll probably just keep doing what I'm doing and and, you know, make up for it in other ways. I >> Well, I did I do have a bit of a
    25:03
    Well, I did I do have a bit of a
    25:03
    Well, I did I do have a bit of a surprise for you. So, on Sunday, which I guess is yesterday, I went over to Alex's house. He's got his tricked out uh Godzilla going on and he he got his center building from from Stumbler. Uh so, I got some I got a little bit of video on that. I'll play it for you guys. Okay, let's see. >> Yeah, so uh this his machine is is
    25:26
    Yeah, so uh this his machine is is
    25:26
    Yeah, so uh this his machine is is amazing. I mean, he's got a lot more going on here than Stumbler stuff, but he does have all three buildings, and this was my first opportunity to ever see all three of your buildings kind of going in unison. Um, and what I really love about what you did with these is that, you know, you started with the Tokyo Neon Tower >> and the all three of the buildings pay
    25:48
    and the all three of the buildings pay
    25:48
    and the all three of the buildings pay homage to the Tokyo Neon Tower off the scoop. Uh, so they all go really well together. You're basically like flanking the left building with the neon tower and then flanking the right building with the neon tower. And I mean, obviously, you know, you did this. I don't need to describe this to you, [laughter] but I I carrying it anyway. I had never seen it before like that. And then you and I guess anybody who bought all of them gets this little custom plaque. >> That's right. Yeah. So, it was I mean
    26:14
    That's right. Yeah. So, it was I mean
    26:14
    That's right. Yeah. So, it was I mean that wasn't even my idea, man. Like that was a that was a customer who came to me and suggested it as as an idea um to uh you know just just basically say thank you to all the people who you know have made significant investments in in my company buying those mods. Um and I just thought it was the most brilliant idea. I' been been trying to think of a way uh because you know you quite often get asked for uh discounts you know if you're buying all four mods or anything like that and I couldn't work out a way of doing it so that it was fair you know because I don't you know if I was going to give a discount to one person I'd want to give a discount to everybody and I couldn't work out a way of doing that so that it was evenly distributed amongst all the people who have supported us over the years. So, when you suggested this uh plaque that uh that goes in the usual sort of position on an Ellie uh game, they usually have a little plaque there to tell you that it's an Ellie machine or whatever it is and what number it is. Um I just thought it was the best concept and you know, I thought if I could light it up as well so that it could, you know, be like a cool lighting feature because obviously that's what we love doing. Um then so much the better. Um and then yeah, just sort of came up with the came up with the the mod. It worked really well. Um and then just sort of built us a little system uh on our checkout process to check when a customer goes through it, looked at their previous orders, checked to see sort of what um mods they bought and if they'd bought all all four, then it just included it automatically in their in their checkout basket. But obviously not everybody's going to um have bought directly from me. Some people buy on the secondary market. some people buy the game and it's already got the mods installed. So, we made sure that those people got covered as well. Um because, you know, why not share the love? >> Yeah. No, it turned out great. We're
    28:04
    Yeah. No, it turned out great. We're
    28:04
    Yeah. No, it turned out great. We're getting getting a couple shout outs out there uh for Charles. Uh we we've of course got requests on on more work. Are you are you working on more Kong stuff, Paul? >> Yeah, we're working on we're [laughter]
    28:17
    Yeah, we're working on we're [laughter]
    28:17
    Yeah, we're working on we're [laughter] Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. So that's that's cool. I think they've all probably talked about this uh over PM on Pinsside, but yeah, no, definitely working on some Kong stuff. Um yeah, Skull Waterfalls definitely happening. Um uh we're working on the spider as well. Um so that's all. Yeah, I don't mind sort of telling people that. >> You know, I got we got a ton of we got a
    28:39
    You know, I got we got a ton of we got a
    28:40
    You know, I got we got a ton of we got a ton of D and D requests for toppers. like you've got your your it's there's a lot of people uh super into their D and D. You got a lot of Metallica topper requests while you're there. >> Okay. Yeah.
    28:52
    Okay. Yeah.
    28:52
    Okay. Yeah. >> Um so thank you D is a funny one out.
    28:56
    Um so thank you D is a funny one out.
    28:56
    Um so thank you D is a funny one out. Yeah. >> D is a funny one man because like um
    29:01
    D is a funny one man because like um
    29:01
    D is a funny one man because like um >> you know I'm not convinced that it sold
    29:03
    you know I'm not convinced that it sold
    29:03
    you know I'm not convinced that it sold massively, right? But um but what I do think is the people who did buy it are you know like D and D lends itself to tabletop gaming to miniatures you know the people who are into D and D tend to be into that kind of thing and you know we always talk about this when we do our seminars and stuff like you know when you when you try and work out what kind of mod to do you know you've got to look at how well a game sells but the the weird one that is really hard to work out is are the people who are buying this game going to be the types of people who by mods. And that's a really tricky one to work out, but I think in in D&D's case that um I think D and D lends itself to those types of people. The modding around DND has been really solid. >> Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I
    29:49
    Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I
    29:49
    Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I don't know the sales numbers between DND and John Wick, but I can certainly tell you that the mod buyer mentality of those two would have to be very different. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
    30:00
    Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
    30:00
    Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> We got some Jaws questions. Does he got
    30:02
    We got some Jaws questions. Does he got
    30:02
    We got some Jaws questions. Does he got anything going on with Jaws? >> Jaws. Uh, what am I going to do for
    30:07
    Jaws. Uh, what am I going to do for
    30:07
    Jaws. Uh, what am I going to do for Jaws? So, I had I had So, obviously we've got the the the buoy of death um which is a buoy that rocks back and forth and has like an LED screen in it. Um, that's heading back into production um in the next couple of weeks. Um, because obviously Jaw's 50th came out and there's been a renewed interest in in mods since Jaws 50th came out. Um, and then we're uh obviously been supporting the chum chuck chumchucking Brody mod, which is um which is a mod that that has Brody up on the uh on the orca chucking charm and stuff. So that's using one of our boards. Um, also J85M is releasing like a torches um mod that um is going to be uh RGB has an RGB sensor to sort of uh interact with the games GI and things like that. Um, we had promised to do more water in Jaws as well that was going to run off the same um system as the the buoy of death um and reuse sort of a similar sort of water um uplight uh and blood and you know chum in the water when when certain things happen in the game as well. So, we had promised that uh when the buoy first came out. Um, I haven't had a chance to look at it just because we've been focusing on other things, but yeah, I think I think one day we'll definitely um bring those back out as well. >> Cool. Cool. All right, so we're on this
    31:35
    Cool. Cool. All right, so we're on this
    31:35
    Cool. Cool. All right, so we're on this virtual tour of the expo booth. Let's leave the electric playground stumbler area. Where do you want to Where do you want to go next? >> Uh, mate, let's let's get straight to
    31:45
    Uh, mate, let's let's get straight to
    31:45
    Uh, mate, let's let's get straight to Winchester, shall we? I mean, that's the >> Okay.
    31:48
    Okay.
    31:48
    Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Can we do that? So, so,
    31:52
    Yeah. Yeah. Can we do that? So, so,
    31:52
    Yeah. Yeah. Can we do that? So, so, so admittedly, I didn't get to play Winchester. Um, spent a lot more time in my booth, which is probably why we had more sales this year. Um, and didn't the line on this one was as equally as as insane timewise as big trouble. Did you get to play it? >> I did, mate, a couple of times. Um,
    32:10
    I did, mate, a couple of times. Um,
    32:10
    I did, mate, a couple of times. Um, yeah, sorry to Kyle that I that I waited in life with Chester. Please forgive me. Um, no. Uh mainly just because I sort of just wanted to see um I'd put my name down for one and sort of read the room a little bit, saw that it was kind of like quite hypy that it was going to sell out. So I got my name down for one um and wanted to go talk to Carl um just sort of get his sort of read of the last couple designer >> sorry
    32:38
    sorry
    32:38
    sorry >> streamer of pinball.
    32:41
    streamer of pinball.
    32:41
    streamer of pinball. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. And uh so he's a big
    32:43
    Yep. Yep. Yep. And uh so he's a big
    32:43
    Yep. Yep. Yep. And uh so he's a big tournament player as well, isn't he? Um, and this is his first uh game design uh with Barrels of Fun, who released Winchester. And uh just to give the background of Winchester for anybody that doesn't know, um Winchester Mystery House is a game by Barrels of Fun um that nobody knew was coming really. You know, we didn't get any whispers of it, no rumors of it. Nobody mentioned that Barrels was going to drop another game um at the time that they did. Um, so it was a big surprise for everybody and I think they dropped the uh announcement for it three days or so before Expo. Um, and it was going to be limited run. Uh, it was by a new designer KL D'Angelo that everybody uh sort of knows and loves. He's very sort of popular on the left with the coin weapon. Yeah. >> Yeah. Very popular guy um on the pinball
    33:34
    Yeah. Very popular guy um on the pinball
    33:34
    Yeah. Very popular guy um on the pinball scene. Um, and and it looked it looked really good. It looked really fun. sort of a bit of a sort of a horror sort of um spooky sort of theme if you will. Um sort of stepping on spooky pinballs toes a little bit I suppose. Um the arts again by uh Brad Albbright who just seems to be all over everything at the moment. Um so big ups to to Brad for for um you know getting on a production game like this. Uh and the arts gorgeous. Um the cabinets got uh effectively rads. Um, so they're kind of I guess laminated um plastic panels that just sort of give it a really sort of amazing sheen. Um, and word word was that it was going to be quite a tough game. You know, we saw Carl's um stream I think a day before Expo. Um, and you know, this is a top tier player. I think his game lasted 12 minutes. Um, so you know that gives you an indication of um that it was going to be a tough playing game, which I don't mind. Like I'm I'm well into tough games. You know, I I sort of can't I don't have the time to spend 40 minutes playing through a single game of pinball. So tough games like Pulp Fiction. Um, you know, even even uh even Metallica for me I find quite tough. Um, so yeah, I was all up about that. And it was tough. It's really hard to control the ball around the flippers. um very hard to trap up. Um there's uh quite a bit going on uh over on the left middle of the playfield. So quite easy to miss a shot there and have it sort of ricochet and um go particularly down the left out lane uh is a really sort of dangerous spot. Um but overall the game's fantastic. It's got a rotating uh ball path similar to G Gilligan's Island um but sort of done in a better way. It's faster. Um, it's it's yeah, I really loved playing it. Um, and I think generally the feedback was fantastic. Also, massive shout out as well to to um Jeff Dodson uh who did the sound work on this. Unfortunately, you don't ever really get to hear the sound at Expo. Um, just because the noise is just unreal. Um, but I heard it on the stream. Sounds fantastic. It's really moody and peculiar and unsettling. exactly what it should be. I think um this is Jeff's first um time. He's he's he's done a lot of sound work in the past, obviously, which is why they picked him up. First time he's he's worked on a production game, and I just think he knocked it out of the park. So, really really proud of of Jeff and the work he's done on this. Um >> and did he not work on maybe Dune and
    36:15
    and did he not work on maybe Dune and
    36:15
    and did he not work on maybe Dune and Labyrinth as well, or was it this was >> I don't think so. I don't think so. I
    36:20
    I don't think so. I don't think so. I
    36:20
    I don't think so. I don't think so. I did I I couldn't tell you definitively, but I did a bit of um a chat GPT on June and beforehand and he didn't get mentioned. So, >> and I think you made a comparison to
    36:32
    and I think you made a comparison to
    36:32
    and I think you made a comparison to this game that might have pissed Carl off. Is that is that what I heard? [laughter] >> What's that? Oh, yeah. Well, I compared
    36:39
    What's that? Oh, yeah. Well, I compared
    36:39
    What's that? Oh, yeah. Well, I compared it to I compared it to Pulp Fiction. I was like, >> I want to hear that comparison because
    36:44
    I want to hear that comparison because
    36:44
    I want to hear that comparison because looking at it, I don't see it. But >> I know totally. But
    36:47
    I know totally. But
    36:47
    I know totally. But >> he gave you a little bit of a weird look
    36:49
    he gave you a little bit of a weird look
    36:49
    he gave you a little bit of a weird look on that comment. >> Yeah. You know when you say something to
    36:51
    Yeah. You know when you say something to
    36:51
    Yeah. You know when you say something to somebody sometimes and you can tell they're just humoring you by saying, "Yeah, yeah, kind of does." But in his head, he was like, "What the is this guy talking about?" So, but the reason why I say that is because for me, Pulp Fiction is like it's all about the flipper control around the lower end of the table. Like the shots are quite hard. Obviously, it's single level, so it's completely different in that respect to this game, >> but in terms of controlling the ball
    37:19
    but in terms of controlling the ball
    37:19
    but in terms of controlling the ball around the flippers, it never feels safe. Winchester never feels safe. And Pulp Fiction feels exactly the same way. You always feel like you're battling the game and trying to get the ball under control. And I think they're very similar in that regard. And I really like that because I think it I think it creates a lot of adrenaline when you're playing. And um and it's got a real one more game appeal. And Winchester has that. Pul fiction has that. So yeah, I think um yeah, I don't I don't know if KL agrees with me, but I think it definitely sort of feels like P in that regard. >> Well, yeah, I mean kudos to them on the
    37:52
    Well, yeah, I mean kudos to them on the
    37:52
    Well, yeah, I mean kudos to them on the launch. I think everyone's excited about seeing a game of this type or an original theme, which a lot of us have decided doesn't work anymore um come into play uh and do so well. And I think Carrie Hardy did a great job of helping to create the intrigue around this. I mean, as an American, which I know you're not, I I had never heard of this place. Like, literally blown away how I had never heard of it because the story behind it is incredible. The visual of the place is incredible. Uh Carl is uh lives in California, so I assume he must have had some either affinity for this place or maybe a relationship with the family. Uh but kudos to them for being able to keep it under wraps uh like they did because that's certainly not >> Yeah, I mean I sort of made the point
    38:36
    Yeah, I mean I sort of made the point
    38:36
    Yeah, I mean I sort of made the point that I I can't remember really there being a comparison um where you know at least there's not a rumor of something happening or a rumor of a game or anything like even if we didn't know the theme nobody even thought Battles was going to release anything um you know in between this and what their next big title was going to So >> maybe they didn't know either. I mean,
    39:00
    maybe they didn't know either. I mean,
    39:00
    maybe they didn't know either. I mean, obviously they've been working on it and ready to launch it, but the fact that there was >> no other games launching at Expo is a
    39:07
    no other games launching at Expo is a
    39:07
    no other games launching at Expo is a very unique opportunity. >> Uh that'll that'll happen again quite in
    39:12
    Uh that'll that'll happen again quite in
    39:12
    Uh that'll that'll happen again quite in that way, especially for an original theme. >> Um so definitely
    39:17
    Um so definitely
    39:17
    Um so definitely >> I mean it was it was the perfect storm,
    39:18
    I mean it was it was the perfect storm,
    39:18
    I mean it was it was the perfect storm, wasn't it, in terms of them getting their positioning on it just right. And I think there's also a bigger story here too, which is that um and you mentioned it earlier just in terms of um the general sort of um you know health of the pinball scene and pinball sales. Um you know and and in a lot of respects everybody's been talking about how you know the glory days are over. FOMO is over. Um you know uh secondary sales have been going down. LE sales have been going down. You know, it's been a general glooiness, I think, to the the general sort of pinball outlook in in terms of new inbox sales. Um, but you know, Evil Dead was a sellout. Um, and a lot of hype behind that. And obviously that sort of wasn't enough to sort of turn things around, I suppose, in terms of what people um, you know, believe with the health of the pinball scene. But then Winchester comes out similar. But also, you know, we should also mention Alice as well. So Alice was a sellout. Um >> um again, limited run, 500 units.
    40:26
    um again, limited run, 500 units.
    40:26
    um again, limited run, 500 units. Winchester, I guess, following a similar type of pattern. You know, 555 525 units, says says Charles. So, thanks. Thanks for that, Charles. You helped us out with that one. 525 uh units of Winchester. Again, a sellout within two days, three days, maybe. Um, and I think that it just is a good thing. You know, I I think that, you know, I don't think any of us really like FOMO, uh, fear of missing out and people flipping games for profit, uh, you know, within days of sellouts and things like that. You know, they all are kind of quite sucky aspects of the pinball scene. But, but the fact that um, seeing these games come out and selling out in two days is is a really positive thing. It creates a lot of excitement in the scene, a lot of uh you know um you know enthusiasm and positivity um that might not have been there maybe a year ago. So I think it's I think it's just a great thing all around. >> Totally. Totally. Well, another game
    41:30
    Totally. Totally. Well, another game
    41:30
    Totally. Totally. Well, another game that didn't catch that fire unfortunately and is mired in some bigger challenges. Uh Predator. So let's move on to that one. but also a first chance for a ton of people to get a look at this one. Did you Did you get to Did you get to put in some time on Predator? >> Uh, if you call a threeinut game time on
    41:52
    Uh, if you call a threeinut game time on
    41:52
    Uh, if you call a threeinut game time on Predator, then yes, I did get some time on Predator. >> If you call what? I missed it.
    41:57
    If you call what? I missed it.
    41:57
    If you call what? I missed it. [laughter] >> So, I waited behind a Tory player. Tony
    42:02
    So, I waited behind a Tory player. Tony
    42:02
    So, I waited behind a Tory player. Tony Tony player. >> Okay.
    42:03
    Okay.
    42:03
    Okay. >> Who who got the who got the grand
    42:05
    Who who got the who got the grand
    42:05
    Who who got the who got the grand champion score? I literally waited for half an hour for him to finish his game and and he absolutely blew it up. Got the grand champion and then I was like, "Oh, this must be an easy game then." And I jump on and literally had the three worst balls of my life. And my game was over in three minutes. And you know when you have a game like that, you just all you want to do is just get out of there as quickly as possible so that nobody sees you because I was so embarrassed. Um, so look, I can't really comment on it to be honest, but um, but I can I can give you anecdotal stories from the rest of the UK crew who got to play it. And I think generally it was generally wellreceived. I think um people thought that um perhaps there were some design ballpath physics issues that sort of could be tweaked. But I think all in all um everybody agrees that this is easily Pinball Brothers best game to date. And I think that should be >> I had a lot of people tell me a story
    43:08
    I had a lot of people tell me a story
    43:08
    I had a lot of people tell me a story similar to yours. Uh I had a lot of fun with it. Uh, I definitely thought it shot infinitely better than Alien. Uh, which I I know a lot of people like that one, but I think it's this one's on this one. So, we mentioned Fast earlier. Uh, Fast does boards for >> Padreddi uh, who made this game. So,
    43:28
    Padreddi uh, who made this game. So,
    43:28
    Padreddi uh, who made this game. So, Pinball Brothers machines are made by Padre. Uh, and Fast was partnered with Padrei on the Funhouse remake. So, this is the first Pinball Brothers game with the Fast boards. Um, also it's worth noting that all of the barrels of fun games use fast boards. And why that's important is because it's fast uses a more traditional Ballet Williams flipper set. Um, so if you if you don't like the feel of a game, sometimes it might be uh related to the flipper assembly and this uses Bali Williams flipper assembly just like uh barrels of fun games. >> So felt good. It's a wide body, so it's
    44:07
    So felt good. It's a wide body, so it's
    44:08
    So felt good. It's a wide body, so it's not going to feel like a traditional game in some sense for that reason. Uh, but visually, it's like super impactful. The audio was really good. I thought the onscreen displays were good, and I felt like I was playing Predator even though Arnold's not in it so much, if at all. Uh, but overall, like a lot of lot of really interesting ball paths. Uh, definitely >> just overall feels like a more
    44:32
    just overall feels like a more
    44:32
    just overall feels like a more traditional game than than Alien did to me. Yeah, for that reason. >> Yeah, easily the best game to date. I
    44:39
    Yeah, easily the best game to date. I
    44:39
    Yeah, easily the best game to date. I thought the theme integration was fantastic. They've always kind of done that well. Um, you know, I think Alien's a bit of a weird one because obviously that was done by Highway and then later by Pinball Brothers. So, it's kind of not really a Pinball Brothers game, even though Pinball Brothers were involved in Highway as well. And it's all very complicated. And we talked to we talked to the US uh rep uh Sean for a while. Uh nothing nothing too revealing other than they're they are only making I think 150 total of these even though the original number was like five or six hundred. So, basically, uh, what's happened is that Disney, who owns P the Predator franchise, is pulling back licensing agreements, uh, for properties and in Europe specifically, which is actually why we're not seeing Star Wars in Europe. But basically, I I believe what what's kind of happened with this, and a lot of it has to do with what's going on with Arnold is what I'm kind of inferring is that a lot of the expectations that were set with this project by uh the organization, Disney or some somebody else just didn't end up like happening. So, they actually have to finish production on this by the end of the year that's public. >> That could also that that could also be
    45:55
    That could also that that could also be
    45:55
    That could also that that could also be be an excuse for weak sales, too. Um, >> well, like my my understanding is like
    46:01
    well, like my my understanding is like
    46:01
    well, like my my understanding is like they basically have to finish up with production by the end of the year based on the licensing agreement. So, this is going to be a pretty rare game, if not very rare game. >> Um, I feel for these guys in terms of
    46:12
    Um, I feel for these guys in terms of
    46:12
    Um, I feel for these guys in terms of the investment that they made in it, but in general, >> I think this one's worth a shot. I mean,
    46:17
    I think this one's worth a shot. I mean,
    46:18
    I think this one's worth a shot. I mean, hopefully you guys will get a chance to to check it out because it's >> I thought the sculpts in it were
    46:21
    I thought the sculpts in it were
    46:21
    I thought the sculpts in it were fantastic, man. Did you Did you get a Did you check the sculpts? >> Yeah, the sculpts are really well done.
    46:27
    Yeah, the sculpts are really well done.
    46:27
    Yeah, the sculpts are really well done. And I mean from a particular from an environmental experience like it definitely definitely really cool. >> Yeah. Felt felt like Predator. I I was
    46:35
    Yeah. Felt felt like Predator. I I was
    46:36
    Yeah. Felt felt like Predator. I I was surprised. I I I expected to like it less than I did. Um and you know I was I was impressed and you know in comparison to ABBA like there's absolutely no contest which is the better game. Um so you know here's hoping that Pinball Brothers continue on and just go from strength to strength. I mean, look, like ABBA, I couldn't even finish a game. Like, it's it's it's a clunkfest and like I don't know. I'm sure that they we're building that game for a certain market. Uh, but at the end of the day, like Predator is definitely worth worth giving a shot >> for sure.
    47:11
    for sure.
    47:12
    for sure. >> Um, all right. So,
    47:14
    Um, all right. So,
    47:14
    Um, all right. So, >> should we talk about Dune?
    47:15
    should we talk about Dune?
    47:15
    should we talk about Dune? >> Go back to barrels.
    47:16
    Go back to barrels.
    47:16
    Go back to barrels. >> Talk about Dune real quick. Uh, not a
    47:18
    Talk about Dune real quick. Uh, not a
    47:18
    Talk about Dune real quick. Uh, not a new game per se, but a new to you for sure, right? What did you think of that? >> Yeah. Um, so June's had a tricky time.
    47:26
    Yeah. Um, so June's had a tricky time.
    47:26
    Yeah. Um, so June's had a tricky time. Um, I don't think it's had great sales. Um, I think probably that would have dictated the fact that they pulled Winchester into Expo as quickly as they did. >> Um, but I think that the success of
    47:41
    Um, but I think that the success of
    47:41
    Um, but I think that the success of Winchester has probably brought more people um to relook at June as well. Um because look, June came out at such a hard time, didn't it? It came out amidst Harry Potter, came out amidst um King Kong, and it was up against all it was up against these really massive releases for the year. And so it kind of just got swallowed up. Um they announced it early which I think um David uh David David David David Vanise who's the uh CEO of Barls of Fund has sort of admitted that it was probably um they made the wrong decision on that in retrospect. Um they should have uh baked it for longer. I think they probably uh so what you're showing there is the new back glass um that they've just released which is miles better I think. I mean if you're going to get >> it's incredible. It's incredible. This
    48:33
    it's incredible. It's incredible. This
    48:34
    it's incredible. It's incredible. This is uh Johnny Crap's work. Johnny Crap >> did Jurassic Park
    48:39
    did Jurassic Park
    48:39
    did Jurassic Park >> which doesn't look anything like this.
    48:42
    which doesn't look anything like this.
    48:42
    which doesn't look anything like this. >> Um I just I just want to comment on this
    48:44
    Um I just I just want to comment on this
    48:44
    Um I just I just want to comment on this like this like translite alone like changed my >> perception of the game because I I love
    48:52
    perception of the game because I I love
    48:52
    perception of the game because I I love Dune. I'm reading the books for the first time now, but I love the movies and I I played the original PC game in the '9s, not even knowing what I was playing at the time, but fell in love with the concept of it. Um, I don't know if you guys remember that game. Nick reminded me today that the the interface has a the face of I believe Paul in the UI and as you inflict damage in this like resource management game, like the face inflicts damage and it was just really immersive. But I think I bring that up because this game is immersive. We all know that. But that translite with what's his name's face on it that a lot of us hate love to hate, you know, created a bit of a disconnect for for a lot of us, I think. Uh Timothy Shamlet. >> Yeah.
    49:39
    Yeah.
    49:40
    Yeah. >> This this image right here
    49:43
    This this image right here
    49:43
    This this image right here >> doesn't do it justice looking at it here
    49:45
    doesn't do it justice looking at it here
    49:45
    doesn't do it justice looking at it here on the screen. I mean, this artwork is freaking incredible. Um, so definitely if you've got this game, I recommend looking into this one. >> Completely completely transforms it.
    49:56
    Completely completely transforms it.
    49:56
    Completely completely transforms it. >> Totally. Totally. Um, so I'm excited.
    49:58
    Totally. Totally. Um, so I'm excited.
    49:58
    Totally. Totally. Um, so I'm excited. I'm excited for what is in store for this game and getting a chance to play it in a home environment. Um, they actually had one thing that Barrels did really cool is that they had a private room on the fifth or 10th floor. I don't know what floor it was, but you could actually go play the game in a different, you know, quiet environment. Um, and uh that that was really cool to get to experience >> that. Yeah, because I didn't um I mean I
    50:24
    that. Yeah, because I didn't um I mean I
    50:24
    that. Yeah, because I didn't um I mean I did get to listen to the sound a little bit as I was playing it. Um >> uh and it is it is very atmospheric. Um
    50:33
    uh and it is it is very atmospheric. Um
    50:33
    uh and it is it is very atmospheric. Um which which June is. So I mean I and you know so this is the first time that I played June and I was really surprised how much I enjoyed it. I thought it was a really really good shooting game. Um, and I think probably it's not been maligned, but I think it's been overlooked. Um, you know, because of all those titles that I mentioned. And that's interesting, isn't it, that it is it is actually a backlass or a translite. So, that is that's that's a really interesting u bit of information there. And that and probably that sort of contributes to the reason why it looks so >> Yeah. Yeah. The technical term probably
    51:05
    Yeah. Yeah. The technical term probably
    51:05
    Yeah. Yeah. The technical term probably isn't what he's calling me out on. It's It's more that it's actually a different uh process that it's created and it I don't know if it has well it does have some mirror up in the top but yeah the the fidelity of the color is like really >> absolutely and look the game shoots
    51:21
    absolutely and look the game shoots
    51:21
    absolutely and look the game shoots really well. Um you know the the the worm eating the ball is a fantastic feature. You know it's an incredible mech. you know, for anybody that's into um mechanics, you know, um just looking at the thing and trying to work out how they do it is just a really interesting sort of mind puzzle. Um I think I'm going to be really disappointed if I ever get the game and then actually see how they do it. Um as is usually the case with these things, but look, I'm I'm into it and if one pops up in the UK, then I'll definitely be on it. Um, and you know, I think that I think that that's probably been due to Winchester. So, I think it's been that release has been such a positive thing for that company because they were the ones with all the hype at Expo. Um, and it's incredible to think that, you know, um, that sort of Barrels was in sort of one position two weeks ago and then in a totally different position at Expo. Uh, and yeah, just really proud of the whole team and and everybody that's sort of um, you know, been putting in all those hard those hard hours. Um because you know they're really they're really in a good position right now. >> Yeah, totally. Totally. Um so uh I did I
    52:34
    Yeah, totally. Totally. Um so uh I did I
    52:34
    Yeah, totally. Totally. Um so uh I did I did skip I want to give a quick heads up. Uh so Ernie Silverberg who did the uh yeah that's Davey's face. Um Ernie Silverberg who did the Monsters Inc. also uh had the playable Mothership. So they had this there last year. This is, if you've ever played Hercules, this is way bigger than Hercules. It actually uses effectively uh the size of pool balls. Uh a lot of work from Brian Allen on this. Uh it uses pneumatics to run the flippers. So, uh the size of the flippers and the size of the ball. It actually has a multiball, uh which is incredible. Um I don't believe it had too much like lighting and and audio in it yet. Um, so it felt a little bit of a a different experience because it didn't have that. But just incredible work on this at the home brerew. This is actually Rob Burke's machine. So Rob Burke runs the show and he has Pastimes Arcade. Uh, Guinness World Record holder for most machines owned, but this is a a project he is investing a serious amount of money in uh to make happen. So definitely uh really cool to get get >> and you you can't really sort of pick up
    53:44
    and you you can't really sort of pick up
    53:44
    and you you can't really sort of pick up on it um because we haven't included the sound in the video, but those pneumatic flippers are just incredible to listen to. Like they just go every time you hit the flipper. Um and it just sounds like the most incredible thing. Um >> and there was no glass on it so you
    54:02
    and there was no glass on it so you
    54:02
    and there was no glass on it so you could really hear them too. >> Yeah. And the story of like how they
    54:05
    Yeah. And the story of like how they
    54:05
    Yeah. And the story of like how they move this thing and and h and Ernie has to like prop it up on these crazy props and and like roll under the machine to like work on the mechs. I mean the playfield doesn't lift up lift up on this guys just so you know like it is a completely different beast. >> Oh my god.
    54:22
    Oh my god.
    54:22
    Oh my god. >> So super cool. Um all right so uh I
    54:25
    So super cool. Um all right so uh I
    54:25
    So super cool. Um all right so uh I guess I guess we have to talk about Star Wars. Is that how you're feeling about it? >> Yeah. Should we should we quickly talk
    54:30
    Yeah. Should we should we quickly talk
    54:30
    Yeah. Should we should we quickly talk about Star Wars? We need to talk about Harry Potter too. We are running out of time, aren't we? Oh, we are. Well, man, like a lot of lot of lot of uh Oh, this is this is the black and white uh with our top right there. >> Um sneak that in there. Okay, here we
    54:44
    Um sneak that in there. Okay, here we
    54:44
    Um sneak that in there. Okay, here we go. >> Um yeah, so um your first your first
    54:49
    Um yeah, so um your first your first
    54:49
    Um yeah, so um your first your first flips on Star Wars like you know, tune out the the world. What was your and your your own comments on played? What was your comments on it after playing it? Don't do that. >> Uh I hated it. I hated it. [laughter]
    55:02
    Uh I hated it. I hated it. [laughter]
    55:02
    Uh I hated it. I hated it. [laughter] >> Honest. I'm I'm like a massive
    55:06
    Honest. I'm I'm like a massive
    55:06
    Honest. I'm I'm like a massive funny. Uh yeah, I hated it. Um I love Stern. I love Stern. They're my favorite company. Um they've made my favorite games. I think they're so much better than this, Rob. I'm sorry, man. >> So much poo.
    55:21
    So much poo.
    55:21
    So much poo. >> So much better. So much better than
    55:22
    So much better. So much better than
    55:22
    So much better. So much better than this. >> Oh, I thought he said there's so much
    55:24
    Oh, I thought he said there's so much
    55:24
    Oh, I thought he said there's so much poo in this. [laughter] >> Well, that too. Can I Can I say both?
    55:29
    Well, that too. Can I Can I say both?
    55:29
    Well, that too. Can I Can I say both? Yeah. Can't be both. Um Keep talking. I I'll tell you >> what I uh we we played it. Um I didn't
    55:38
    what I uh we we played it. Um I didn't
    55:38
    what I uh we we played it. Um I didn't we didn't have a good game on it. We were bricking all the shots. We probably had about five beers in us at this point as well. So, you know, take that with a grain of salt. I know a lot of people have bought the game and love it. I say it shoots really well. We couldn't hit the Death Star shot. Neil will say we just need to shoot better. um you know when you sort of just I don't know like I think I was already predisposed to hate it. So when I walked up to it I kind of didn't I wasn't being fair either. So you know but I didn't enjoy it and the Stern booth was pretty empty all all show. You know, I think that the focus was away from Stern. And, you know, I think regardless of whether it's a good game or a bad game or a mediocre game, they're not doing enough to capture the audience at the moment. Um, attention is shifting elsewhere. And I do believe that they need to refocus that attention um by being more innovative, by trying more challenging stuff. And look, you know, Uncanny X-Men, you know, uh, so Jack convinced them to take a risk on that and look how that turned out. So now they're just playing it safe. And, you know, I get that there's decision making behind the scenes that is contributing to this stuff. And you know, there's a whole bunch of background information on why a new Star Wars game got released and the fact that it was the distributors that requested it, which doesn't really, you know, because they they vaulted the original Star Wars. Distributors were up in arms that they'd vaulted that Star Wars and said, "Bring back Star Wars because we we just always sold it." And so then they they develop a new Star Wars to then put it in its position. That's the story. But it makes no sense to me because like what why would you spend six months or whatever R&D creating a brand new game when you could just like unvault the old Star Wars and and appease the the howling masses. So there's there's so much weirdness uh that goes into this story. There's the EU stuff that you mentioned earlier where they lost the license to sell this game in the EU. So that's like I don't know 20% 30% of your market that just got obliterated over an email. Um, so you know, in my head I was like, "Oh, well, they must have just stopped production on this early and just then just released it because of that." But apparently that's not what happened at all. And they will be getting that EU license at some point. At least that's what's been told to people I've spoken to who have spoken to Seth and and people like that. Um, so I don't know, man. It's just it's just all weird to me. And I feel like um you know companies like Barrels and Spooky are sort of you know and JJP as well uh you know I played Harry Potter um at the show for the first time and I thought it was fantastic. I know that you've played a fair bit of Potter already, haven't you? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um
    58:37
    Yeah. Yeah. Um
    58:38
    Yeah. Yeah. Um Potter Potter's amazing. I mean I think obviously there's a lot of really cool stuff to check out now. And yeah, I think that they mailed it in in a lot of ways. I I will say like so, you know, I spoke positively about it from [clears throat] playing it and uh I have to defend that on some level. Uh so so there's 9,000. >> Please, please do. I would like to hear
    59:02
    Please, please do. I would like to hear
    59:02
    Please, please do. I would like to hear that. >> There's there's just just as a statement
    59:04
    There's there's just just as a statement
    59:04
    There's there's just just as a statement of fact, >> there are $9,000
    59:08
    there are $9,000
    59:08
    there are $9,000 FU and Venom Ellies on the market. Okay, I play the LE of this game and the Ellie and that was my first experience of it was on the Ellie. The L is Ellie is gorgeous. I mean, regardless of the stickers, stupid stickers of the AT-ATs on the side cabinet, the LE is gorgeous. This is the best Star Wars pinball game that I think you're going to be able to find amongst all of them. It play It's fun as hell. I mean, I I had a horrible experience of with it at Expo. It sucked. But like when I played it in the right environment, you know, I really liked it. I've played a pro on location, I really liked that. I I think that this is a game that at the right price, which is why I brought up the $9,000 LE thing. It's worth having. I I think it would be hard to, you know, make a move at 13K on the LE, but every LE from Stern is hard to make a move on. I mean, like, yeah, the the work the effort is just not being put there >> at that price. But it's a it's a fun
    60:06
    at that price. But it's a it's a fun
    60:06
    at that price. But it's a it's a fun game. Um, I I don't know. I mean, I think I think I think all your comments are true. Uh, I'm gonna I want to share this photo because we had a >> I have more to say on it if you want to
    60:18
    I have more to say on it if you want to
    60:18
    I have more to say on it if you want to keep talking about it. >> We [laughter] were leaving We were
    60:21
    We [laughter] were leaving We were
    60:21
    We [laughter] were leaving We were leaving the floor uh on I think Friday night, the night before Davey crashed and burned the next day. [laughter] >> We got we got to we got to get this in
    60:31
    We got we got to we got to get this in
    60:31
    We got we got to we got to get this in with uh with Roger Sharp. I don't know, man. I think I think we probably have to save more dive on it for another episode, right? >> Yeah.
    60:39
    Yeah.
    60:39
    Yeah. >> Do we keep talking?
    60:41
    Do we keep talking?
    60:41
    Do we keep talking? >> No. No. We're running out of time. I
    60:43
    No. No. We're running out of time. I
    60:43
    No. No. We're running out of time. I don't want to I don't want to keep bitching about it. Everything I say everybody already knows. >> So So one of the reasons you don't like
    60:49
    So So one of the reasons you don't like
    60:49
    So So one of the reasons you don't like it is because you loved Potter, right? Like what did you think of that one? >> Uh I loved it, man. I I actually I
    60:55
    Uh I loved it, man. I I actually I
    60:55
    Uh I loved it, man. I I actually I actually >> I actually loved it a lot more than I
    60:58
    I actually loved it a lot more than I
    60:58
    I actually loved it a lot more than I thought I was going to. So >> it's a blast. It I mean look, I say Star
    61:02
    it's a blast. It I mean look, I say Star
    61:02
    it's a blast. It I mean look, I say Star Wars shoots great. Potter is way more fun. It shoots. Yeah, Potter's way more fun and it shoots great. So, for me, when I first saw Potter, I was like, god damn it, they've done the same thing that they did with Avatar, which is they've just created an absolute mess in the back half of the playfield. That's, you know, just wire forms everywhere, ball paths everywhere. It's going to be clunky. It's going to be hard to shoot. You're going to have no idea what's going on. And and probably that last comment, no idea what's going on. I don't have any idea what's going on in Potter. >> Played it many, [laughter] many times. I
    61:35
    Played it many, [laughter] many times. I
    61:35
    Played it many, [laughter] many times. I still have no idea and I don't care. I don't care. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, even Elton, which is
    61:41
    Yeah. Yeah. Um, even Elton, which is
    61:41
    Yeah. Yeah. Um, even Elton, which is like, you know, a much simpler JJP game, I've still got like very little idea what I'm doing. Um, but but so even though I thought it was going to look like a uh I thought it was going to play exactly like Avatar based on the way it looked, I think it shoots completely different. Um, it's really smooth. It's really flowy. It's really comboable. Um, yeah, I was just I was just really impressed with it. I thought it was I thought it was fantastic, man. So, you know, I think um I think they'veve, you know, for me it it looks like Avatar in terms of how they've laid everything out, but it shoots like Elton. It had that smoothness. It had that flowiness >> and way better theme. I mean, even if
    62:27
    and way better theme. I mean, even if
    62:27
    and way better theme. I mean, even if you don't like Potter and you don't like Avatar, it's it's going to outclass that theme any day. Uh it's a blast. It's visually like there's a lot going on with it. I mean, comparing it to Star Wars since we just talked about it, it's like if you're if you're looking at a same price point, it's not even a question. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
    62:46
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
    62:46
    Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. >> So,
    62:47
    So,
    62:47
    So, >> so yeah. So, um Well, I I think
    62:51
    so yeah. So, um Well, I I think
    62:51
    so yeah. So, um Well, I I think >> we just had a mod show. We didn't talk
    62:52
    we just had a mod show. We didn't talk
    62:52
    we just had a mod show. We didn't talk about mods at all. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Mods. Um
    62:57
    Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Mods. Um
    62:57
    Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Mods. Um >> should we uh do you want to hit let's
    62:59
    should we uh do you want to hit let's
    62:59
    should we uh do you want to hit let's hit you hit one and then I'll hit one. How's >> Yeah. Can you do Can you do one first?
    63:03
    Yeah. Can you do Can you do one first?
    63:03
    Yeah. Can you do Can you do one first? um just in case you've got something lined up because I think I need to get something sorted. So, yeah, you do yours first. >> Okay, cool. So, all right, let me hit it
    63:11
    Okay, cool. So, all right, let me hit it
    63:11
    Okay, cool. So, all right, let me hit it up. All right, so guys, that's our expo recap. Uh thank you to all our customers who came and showed up and hung with us. Uh thanks for being here, Paul, uh and many others, I'm sure, uh to be here with us. It was a really good time. Uh we did uh we also uh each day we had a private uh reveal of our new Circusville Terror Topper. So, thank you for everyone who came and checked out that. Uh, we do have a wait list open on that on our website at uh it's if you go to our topper section, you can find it and we're going to be showing more on that. Uh, but for each of you that gave us feedback uh we are working to incorporate that and we'll be uh releasing that at some point before the end of the year. Uh so, Mod Mod World uh let's kick [music]
    64:07
    And somebody somebody told us our our
    64:07
    And somebody somebody told us our our show's too long, so we're going to keep being too long for you. I'm super sorry about that. I I kind of agree, honestly. >> That's mean. That's just mean.
    64:16
    That's mean. That's just mean.
    64:16
    That's mean. That's just mean. >> It's okay. It's okay. Uh, all right. So,
    64:19
    It's okay. It's okay. Uh, all right. So,
    64:19
    It's okay. It's okay. Uh, all right. So, I got the chance to visit uh a couple uh months ago uh the al cove in uh Alabama, the University of Alabama. Uh is it Tuscaloosa? Yeah. Yeah, Tuscaloosa. And uh Chad is the owner of Al Cove. He also owns Luca. Uh he's got a really cool setup there. This is his setup for uh a couple games. He's only got five games at this location. Uh but they uh he's got a really cool setup there. But he's got this Iron Maiden. >> Oh yeah, man.
    64:53
    Oh yeah, man.
    64:53
    Oh yeah, man. >> Is turning.
    64:54
    Is turning.
    64:54
    Is turning. >> We talked about this on the show. Do you
    64:55
    We talked about this on the show. Do you
    64:56
    We talked about this on the show. Do you remember? >> A Beasty Boys game. Did I show this
    64:58
    A Beasty Boys game. Did I show this
    64:58
    A Beasty Boys game. Did I show this already? >> No, no, no, no. But um we did mention
    65:02
    No, no, no, no. But um we did mention
    65:02
    No, no, no, no. But um we did mention it. We did mention it on the show. >> Did it because So there was also a mod
    65:07
    Did it because So there was also a mod
    65:07
    Did it because So there was also a mod that it I have to show this first, but like >> this stuff you can't buy. You can't buy
    65:13
    this stuff you can't buy. You can't buy
    65:13
    this stuff you can't buy. You can't buy this game like this. Uh the video is like fully done. Uh and uh super cool. So if if uh if we've covered this already. >> No, no, no. The time that we the time
    65:25
    No, no, no. The time that we the time
    65:25
    No, no, no. The time that we the time that we covered it um they were basically working through the sound and sort of and the the translate was done, but none of these mods like uh on the playfield were done at that point. So it's obviously had a lot more work done to it since then. >> Oh, so we covered it a long time ago.
    65:41
    Oh, so we covered it a long time ago.
    65:41
    Oh, so we covered it a long time ago. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, super cool. Uh, but he also had a foo. So, so I learned that he owns these two bars with the with the pinball, but he also does mods. And, uh, if I remember, if I can find it quick enough, but he he did has this really cool overdrive pedal. Have you seen this? >> No, I haven't seen this one.
    66:01
    No, I haven't seen this one.
    66:01
    No, I haven't seen this one. >> Yeah. So, this this sits on the left
    66:03
    Yeah. So, this this sits on the left
    66:03
    Yeah. So, this this sits on the left side of the playfield. Uh, I really like it because it actually has actual knobs and the actual wiring from a amplifier or I'm sorry, guitar pedal. Um, and it's really really nicely done. Uh, you can pick this up on Pinite. If you guys search for uh overdrive pedal uh foo fighters, you can find it. Uh, but yeah, he's got an insert from an actual playfield there on the top. So, I thought it was just really cool how he combined, you know, real world elements from a guitar pedal, but also a pinball element into it, and it lights up real nice as well. >> Very cool. Very cool.
    66:40
    Very cool. Very cool.
    66:40
    Very cool. Very cool. >> I think it includes uh includes those
    66:43
    I think it includes uh includes those
    66:43
    I think it includes uh includes those plastics as well, which I always appreciate it whenever mod makers are including, you know, complimentary plastics for their stuff um to kind of offset it. Um so, yeah, definitely Chad, kickass job on this. Uh >> yeah,
    66:57
    yeah,
    66:57
    yeah, >> and uh really really like checking it
    66:58
    and uh really really like checking it
    66:58
    and uh really really like checking it out in person. >> Yeah, [clears throat]
    67:01
    Yeah, [clears throat]
    67:01
    Yeah, [clears throat] Foo Fighters is having a bit of a moment, too. Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm ready, man. >> Okay,
    67:05
    Okay,
    67:05
    Okay, >> so uh yeah, here we go. So C Arcades, um
    67:09
    so uh yeah, here we go. So C Arcades, um
    67:09
    so uh yeah, here we go. So C Arcades, um who I'll quickly go back to page one. So, CRADes, who has produced a lot of mods for Jaws, um uh has, you know, done, um redone the boat, uh has done Chrissy, um and the and the boy on the left hand side with a like a resin water and a shark. Very, uh good mod maker who does a lot of sort of detailed work. um has been producing these uh these slings uh these sling recreations for Godzilla. Um you can see sort of has sort of flickering flames in them. Um and has been producing these for a while. He's sort of gone a bit underground I suppose while the I think he moved house and he created a new workshop and he's um sort of been busily sort of producing these. has just recently sort of come back onto Pinside to announce that he's going to be redoing the Drake building in the center of Godzilla as well. Um, now this is one that uh has already uh had a little bit of mod attention in the past. Um, so Tom Da TDD has uh done a reskin um of the Drake building uh which is I guess just a a sort of a 3D sort of facade um uh change uh where you sort of um screw in these panels onto the side to give it bit more of a 3D aspect. Um, the J85M was also looking at doing something for that as well and and and making it a bit uh another level again, but John hasn't actually announced or released anything. Um, so now Chris has announced that he's going to be looking at it as well. Um, and he's going to be replacing the entire building, which is a metal uh mech, I suppose, with a 3D printed one, and it looks like resin at the moment, at least the prototypes in resin. Um, really cool idea. What he wants to do is create uh panels in the side that are flaming much like his slings were that change depending on the building damage um inserts that are in front of the building. So, anybody that doesn't know Godzilla, you bash the building uh for a certain number of times. You build up the building damage which is shown in these flaming LEDs in the playfield. And then finally, when you hit it enough, the building drops and allows you to lock the balls for multiball. Um, so he wants to uh have these LED panels in the side of the building that replicate um how much building damage you've got down here. So, it's it's actually a really fantastic concept. Um, and if he's able to pull it off, it'll be incredible. Um, but there's been a couple of questions as to whether 3D printed resin is going to be strong enough to withstand um, multiple ball hits. I mean, his stuff is really finely detailed. Um, this building can take a a pretty significant ball hit, particularly when the building is dropping. So, if you um if the building's sort of partway dropping and you and you smack it with a ball, it can go right into um these vertical parts here. And uh Chris assures us that um that the building's going to be absolutely fine and that he's using a 3D printing material that's going to be able to withstand ball hits. But if mod making has shown us anything in the past, then nobody's really been able to create anything um that can withstand a ball hit um that's not like, you know, inje injected molded vinyl or something that's got a bit of flex to it. So, look, we'll see how uh that all pans out, but really cool idea. Um and it'll be interesting to see how it goes. >> Yeah. Has he is his is he uh do like a
    71:00
    Yeah. Has he is his is he uh do like a
    71:00
    Yeah. Has he is his is he uh do like a lot of lighting stuff in his mods these days? I haven't been following his newer stuff or new. >> So the the first the first circuit work
    71:08
    So the the first the first circuit work
    71:08
    So the the first the first circuit work that he he did was the slings. Um and that was using a sim you know the uh the furnaces on Black Knight uh Swords of Rage. Um, so it used sort of like a a fairly simple circuit uh of resistors and LEDs, but the way that the circuit worked is that it created this flickering sort of fire effect. Pretty sure he's using the exact same technique on his uh slings. So, I'm not sure um what technique he's he he wants to be using on the building. If if it was me, you know, I'd probably be just doing the same thing all over again. Um, but I think he's also going to have some issues with picking up on those signals from the burning building uh insert on the playfield. Um, that's an RGB uh panel. Um, there's no easy way to pick up that data. Um, you know, as as as you've experienced in the past too, Rob, the only way to do it is with with light sensors, and that's a very complicated thing to do. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. I mean, it's
    72:12
    Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. I mean, it's
    72:12
    Yeah. Yeah. Well, cool. I mean, it's it's man, I I don't know. I I'm I'm blown away by the work all of you guys have done on Godzilla uh underneath the playfield. I've done some work above if [laughter] you haven't seen it. Um but >> just when you thought Godzilla was
    72:26
    just when you thought Godzilla was
    72:26
    just when you thought Godzilla was finished with modding, somebody comes >> like I cannot believe that he's taken
    72:30
    like I cannot believe that he's taken
    72:30
    like I cannot believe that he's taken this I I can believe he's taking this on. But it's the testament to this game >> and how much fandom uh there is around
    72:38
    and how much fandom uh there is around
    72:38
    and how much fandom uh there is around it. And I think it deserves deserves uh giving it a shot. I I hope it works out. All right, Davey, do you want to call it, man? Um we Oh, you're going to TPF? You gonna make it? >> Yeah, I'm going to TPF on this one,
    72:50
    Yeah, I'm going to TPF on this one,
    72:50
    Yeah, I'm going to TPF on this one, right? Okay, you are. >> Uh no, definitely going to TPF. I'm I'm
    72:54
    Uh no, definitely going to TPF. I'm I'm
    72:54
    Uh no, definitely going to TPF. I'm I'm sort of half considering expo next year just because I constantly get invited to uh DPO, the Dutch Dutch Pinball Show, Dutch Pinball Open, um which is around about the same time as Expo. Um, and obviously I've got a lot of friends uh over in the Netherlands now, you know, Ren and Barry and Melvin and these guys um who all sort of work in and around Dutch Pinball. Um, and I'd love to go and hang out with them on their home turf and just see what the uh Dutch show is all about. So, I might skip Expo to go to that one next year just cuz there's no way I could organize >> two shows in one month uh with my
    73:32
    two shows in one month uh with my
    73:32
    two shows in one month uh with my family. But yeah, no, definitely going to TPF. Um, and looking forward to it. Can't wait. Cool. So, on our next show, uh, Stellar Mods gave me their, uh, biplane spinning thing, so I'm gonna get that installed. I got a >> I got Yes. Thank you guys. Uh,
    73:49
    I got Yes. Thank you guys. Uh,
    73:49
    I got Yes. Thank you guys. Uh, >> met him and his son. They do amazing
    73:51
    met him and his son. They do amazing
    73:51
    met him and his son. They do amazing work. Uh, I got a new set Kong. I got a new plastic set for King Kong that I'll be talking about. >> I'll be talking about our new Alice mod.
    74:00
    I'll be talking about our new Alice mod.
    74:00
    I'll be talking about our new Alice mod. We did a White Rabbit. Uh, Davey may have something new. If not, he'll have a host of of mods to talk about. Um, so I know it's been a bit, but we'll be back with you guys soon again. Uh, probably one more time before the end of the year at least. And, uh, thanks guys. It's always a pleasure. Davey, any final words? >> Keep pinballing.
    74:23
    Keep pinballing.
    74:24
    Keep pinballing. >> Keep pinballing. [laughter]
    74:25
    Keep pinballing. [laughter]
    74:25
    Keep pinballing. [laughter] >> I'm just trying out a couple of
    74:26
    I'm just trying out a couple of
    74:26
    I'm just trying out a couple of catchphrases. I don't think that one really works, but I'll keep trying out some new ones. >> Keep pinballing. [laughter] I won't put
    74:32
    Keep pinballing. [laughter] I won't put
    74:32
    Keep pinballing. [laughter] I won't put you on the spot next time. signing off. >> See you later.