Welcome Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 42 and my name's Martin and with me... It's Ryan C and we've got a very special guest on today, don't we Marty? Do we? Yes, yes. Actually, you don't know about this. Mate, I've got someone special. Who have you got? Pinball News and Pinball Profile tried and they failed. But Marty, we got him on. This man had a mountain of dreams and he failed to realise them all And he's here today to defend his integrity He allegedly has a ton of s**t Which apparently is the root of all the problems here The man who successfully sold a company that is now being liquidated The man, the myth, the legend Andrew Highway Ah, it's a pleasure Now Andrew, why did you choose to appear on our show And why did you give Martin from Pinball News such a hard time? It's on my bucket list, so here I am. I guess we all have some weird ones on our bucket list. Now, Andrew, can you confirm that it's really you? Maybe start by telling us a lie, one of the lies that you're famous for. Full Fossil is a critically acclaimed table. There's a lot of top people in the industry who've given it rave reviews. That is 100% absolute bullshit, so I thank you for confirming your identity. Andrew, your games, in particular Alien, and they're absolutely rubbish in their hardware quality and they're falling apart. What do you have to say about that? Well, I've said this before. For us, or for me, when I started this company, I had a certain number of philosophies or approaches that we wanted to take with this. And I've always been a massive lover of WMS games, you know, Bally or Williams-branded games. That's where my real love for pinball came from, playing these games. And the more I got to work on them, I got to realise that, you know, this is a quality product. Everything about what WMS did with their pinballs was quality. And that's the bar that I stepped. So the way that we went about our business. And there's a lot of WMS DNA in what we're doing here. And so, yes, you know, that's the target that we set ourselves to make quality games. Now, of course, you know, I can tell you that that was our target. But, you know, as the old saying goes, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. You know, you have to listen to what our customers are saying about this. Only they can say whether we achieve that goal or not. Well, the customers have spoken, Andrew, and your game is a piece of shit. Oh, thanks. Yes, I'll be proud of that too. Andrew, how would you describe your actions with your time at Highway Pinball? Stupid and irresponsible. In the past, you've talked about your love for the silver ball. More recently, you've talked about your love for hydrofoils. Could it be said that you will love any narrative that will put more money in your wallet? That's correct, yes. Andrew, we've got a really busy show our show runs for like three hours sometimes we've got Slam Top 100 we've got John Puppity to talk about today one thing I want to touch on before we go I mentioned that when I introduced you apparently, allegedly this is not, I haven't seen it, okay apparently you have a top and this is the root of all the evil that has come out of Highway Pimple can I please see it? you can see it you can see it you can see it you can see it yep, I'll show you All right, Andrew. Well, thanks for coming on the show. And I've got to make up a fake name so you don't sue me. I'm Jeff, by the way. I'm Jeff. So thanks, mate. Thank you for having me, Jeff. Well, that was really good to have Andrew Hire on our show. So thank you very much for your time, Andrew. And just so we're clear, since some people don't know when things are a joke or not, that was a joke. It was a joke, my lord. It was a joke. Yes, just in case. But, man, everything's so serious right now with the whole highway thing, and I'm not sure how we're going to tackle this whole thing, because I don't really want to do, like, an hour show on highway and that interview on This Big and Pinball. What have you got to say about the situation, Marty? Pinball news, you mean? Yep, yep, sorry. Pinball news, yep. Is that the one? Oh, and This Big and Pinball as well. That's right. Just making sure we're giving people the right credit. And it's funny, because you and I probably spoke about this before, and I actually had... had, I don't know, I'm assuming you did as well, a lot of people reach out to me further again this week, either giving me more information or asking for information. And I think my response was pretty much standard, which was, I'm kind of now just trying to avoid the whole shit show. Yeah, I mean, after reading that 8,000 words interview on Timbal News, which is very comprehensive and a great job by Martin, Jeff Giles' interview, other podcasts, This Week in Pinball, the forums. I played pinball for the first time in two days today, which I don't know if two days isn't a long break. And I was like, oh, yeah, pinball. It's fun, isn't it? Yeah, playing pinball is fun. And reading this stuff about pinball isn't fun. Do you know what I mean? There's so many things in life that I like doing, and reading about the failures of that thing that I like doing isn't that fun or interesting to me. But it is news. we do have a podcast, we're not trying to bury our heads in the sand and not cover it but what have you heard Marty because no I haven't actually heard anything and no I haven't really been talking to people that much about it outside of the podcast look and probably one of the other things to add to it as well is Ryan what is the truth I don't know who the fuck knows this is what's really shitty about this right is that so obviously since last week we spoke about the fact that the liquidators have been called in for Highway in the UK and then there's this other company called Pinball Brothers that was set up shortly after which everything's been siphoned to. Then there's this other entity called Umbrella Corporation in Sweden or wherever the fuck it is where pretty much all the... that's all been orchestrated. But then a couple days ago we had on Pinball News the interview with Andrew Highway, which was originally meant to be a live interview with him, but then he refused. He wanted to review the question, so there's this big, long interview with Andrew Highway. What do we know, Ryan? Well, what we know is that we don't know the truth. Like, he could be lying through his ass. He could be telling the truth. There's people on forums could be lying, could be telling the truth. I, oh, fuck. It's just, it's doing my head in trying to process all the information to determine what is the truth. So, yeah, I mean, obviously, I mean, it's almost like in business, you have to lie. I know that sounds horrible, but, I mean, it kind of happens throughout life in general and through business. It's only like everyone's making a big deal of it because the company failed. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't want to mention any companies, but, you know, all the companies that are successfully trading now, I'm sure they have to do things that might be a little bit questionable and they've obviously got disgruntled employees as well. But things don't fall apart. So everything kind of gets held together, you know, even if they're fragile strings. But of course, you know, this business has failed. So everything's getting kind of aired out now. Obviously, there's a lot of truths that are being stressed by Andrew. For example, on Pinball Profile with Jeff Teolis, he interviewed one of the coders, and he said that he kind of hadn't started working at all on Queen, their third title. Now, if you go back two years ago on an interview, and that's the interview that I pulled some of the sounds from for our little fake interview, Andrew's saying that you know we've got all these machines ready and you know title number three it already has artwork for it and it already has code in it like all we have to do now is make the whiteboard and we can get into production so obviously that's a that's a lie right like obviously Poe didn't exist for it unless he's talking about you know the basic code that the framework yeah the framework that powers you know a whiteboard to you know every machine has that I guess you know flippers and and pop bumpers So, I don't know. As I said, this is an ongoing story. A lot of people have been dragged into it. Dave Sanders, obviously, the story's kind of getting out about him, his past employees. And he's now got GoFundMe set up to pay for his expenses and stuff. Yeah, and then Andrew kind of said that, you know, he didn't want to be on that, you know, on a salary. He wanted this and that. And he said, she said kind of thing, so. Well, and I also did, I saw some further comments from Dave Sanders on at Pinball Info, which is the UK forum, in fact, Pinball Forum. And he basically said, yeah, I didn't want to become an investor in his company. Then, you know, if anything goes bad, then there's liability. So that's probably one of the better decisions he made was to not become a shareholder of that company now that we know what we know. Yeah. so as I said I don't know what to say I mean there's even someone that jumped on the thread and on Pinside and said that Andrew Highway effectively stole a bunch of kind of pinball machines like he he led them to to Andrew for a show and then they got the back and the guy was out of the hobby I don't know I don't know what to think um you know I almost I don't know anything as like as I said like all this stuff is not pinball to me um it's it's the shit show that's behind pinball, and every hobby that you're in, I'm sure there's this, but I don't want to concentrate on it because I like pinball. I like flipping the silver ball. It's just drama. It's a reality TV show. It's a real-life reality TV show. Yeah, it is, and, you know, forums thrive on this stuff, right, because it's something to talk about, and everyone can get their point across. And you're right. It's not a major part of the overall pinball story that we choose to tell. But, you know, there are a lot of people that have lost their money on this, and they were lied to. So when people were having doubts about either going in on a machine, like, this is the thing that's shitty, right? There was people just saying, oh, I don't know whether I should put my money down, and then somebody, the owner of a company, saying, yep, absolutely, machines are in production, you're going to get your machine. someone puts their money down at that stage and never sees a machine that's the shitty part well that's the thing it's just like you know that might have happened with another company but then you know an investor comes in and saves the company and then it doesn't matter but in this case everything's fell apart so you know there's a witch hunt and people were sending death threats and posting his address and I'm not painting out Andrew to be a saint at all but it's just I think he's just a really shitty businessman, and that's what it comes down to. And the whole lying thing, you know, and yes, he seems like a bit of a, you know, this is just my guess, he seems like a bit of a compulsive liar, and that he lies so much that he kind of has to believe his own lies. But I think that comes with, like, you know, in the Pinball News interview, he kind of said, I did what I had to do in the best interest of the company. that's all, you know, you can say that but if you couple that with being a shit businessman then it all falls apart and just looks double as bad, right? Right. And it's one of those things where had the company continued and been successful he would have slept easy at night saying you know what, I did what I did but it's now a success. Well, it wasn't a success. And I had this conversation the other night when I was streaming there was somebody that's been implicated in all of this that was in chat, and you were there as well. And I just did the hypothetical question. I said, you know, if people had... It's a bit of a Catch-22 situation. If people hadn't, you know, sounded the alarm bells and people started getting their refunds, could there have been a way forward for some people to get their machines and for the company to be a success? Or was it really just too far gone that there was never any way out of this? I think the writing was on the wall, and, I mean, it depends on how deep the pockets are of the investors. I mean, any pinball company can be eventually successful if you throw millions and millions and millions of dollars at it, but, you know, this is business, and the investors aren't going to sit there and lose money. I mean, the balance sheet, which is public, you can go and look up Andrew Highways, you know, so the Highway Limited or whatever it's called. It's all online. Like, the company tax returns and balance sheets are public knowledge in the UK, and they're not in Australia. I'm not sure about the US. But this is the information that was kind of circulating, and this is what people were basing it off. A, you know, highway is, like, I can't remember what it was. It was, like, either 300 or 500,000 pounds in the red, right? And, you know, Andrew hasn't paid for supplier invoices, so I mean when someone's lying to your face and saying yeah we'll get you know shit ready in two weeks and then people have contacts with say like pinball life and pinball life says okay well Andrew hasn't ordered anything yet well then you know that it's bullshit if that's the supplier and you know they're not getting stock then you know that he's telling a lie and that's I guess when people started to to pull their money out and there was a run for the bank I don't think can blame the run for the bank on one or two people, I think it was going to happen anyway. And so the pinball climate has changed. And with all this stuff, we said we don't really talk about it, there's a lesson in everything. And the lesson is don't put down money on anything if you're not prepared to lose money. And if you can avoid pre-ordering a pinball machine, then do that and you will be happier. Pinball machines always come up for sale. If I want to buy an alien today, I can buy an alien. Yep. And, you know, it's interesting. So I was just, before we got on tonight, and I sent you a screen grab of it, I had talked about this on the podcast before, that I was really close to putting money down on an alien. And I actually showed you the email tonight that I got from Andrew, sort of saying, you know, an Australian distributor hasn't been announced yet, but, you know, you can put your money right down directly through us. and I don't know what it was at the time. I kind of just thought, you know what, I'm just not, I'm not a pre-order guy. So that was kind of at the time I thought, you know what, it just, I just don't have the level of comfort that I would like so I didn't put my money down. Fuck me, I'm so glad that happened. Well, I've never said this on the podcast but I actually asked Andrew for a price on 10 aliens. I'm not joking I was just like because there was no distributor at the time and I was just like I hadn't played it yet, I think this was before Expo and I was just kind of getting a bit excited about it and I just thought maybe we should organise some kind of group buy together and I was going to be the one that possibly would lead that and luckily it took like three weeks to answer the email and yeah, I didn't get an invoice or anything I think that's when he was talking to Mr. Dibble about a possible partnership. So, yeah. What's the action going ahead? Oh, well, he said he didn't do an invoice anyway, but that was just me being curious and maybe trying to fish around to see what the wholesaler price was or something on the board. Right, okay. Anyway, bullet dodged by both of them. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, obviously people have lost their money and, you know, they may get their money back at some stage. You never know. There have been other people that have got their money back through other companies going down. Is that a segue, mate? Oh, what do you reckon? Because I just now... That was really my moment of saying, let's move on to the next fuckery and leave this fuckery behind. So, John Papadiuk, Mr Social Justice himself, appeared in court this week against a bunch of people. I think there was 26 or so. And he got a judgment against him, which basically meant that he was liable to pay these people back monies owing to the machine, for the machines that they didn't get. For Magick Girl. It was, yeah, it was a civil case. I think it was Magick Girl or Raza and Alice in Wonderland as well. So basically, they've got the judgment, but that doesn't mean that they get the money. It just means that they're allowed to kind of try and get the money off John Bobby. I think it wasn't a personal liability, so effectively they now, the court has said, the money's coming from you, John, and if he says, I don't have the money, then bankruptcy and no one gets anything. Or, I mean, it's possible, I think Dennis from the Eclectic Gamers podcast talks about, you know, if there's creditors for someone that goes bankrupt, then if they get a job in the future, then a portion of that wage goes towards the money that they owe, I guess. Right, okay. The Jordan Belfort of his time. Exactly, yeah. Well, he's got all the money buried in his backyard, apparently, so, like Kevin Cooley. So, what does that mean now with Deep Red involved? I guess, I mean, as we kind of mentioned with Deep Root a couple of months ago, they've got so many designers that it's almost like they don't seem to need John Papadiuk. So I guess we'll see what happens with that at the five days of Deep Root at Texas Commonwealth Festival next year. It's only four days. They can only afford four days now. They only have four days, yeah. So, I don't know. It's just another book to be closed, or still open, I guess, on the shit show that goes on behind the pinball scenes. Pinball Drama 101. Okay, so, man. It's one of these things we've talked about before. So, Stern, it's a sure bet, right? If you're going to put money down for a deposit on a Stern, you're going to get your machine. Right? Yes. Spooky, you'd agree? Sure, you'd have to wait a really long time at the moment. Sure, but Spooky's pretty stable. Jersey Jack? Yeah, sure. You have to wait a while as well. Yeah, but that's their model. Who else have we got? Dust Pinball. Are you going to get your pinball machine, Ryan? Well, you can't really order one now, but who the fuck knows? Who knows? Who else have we got? So Deep Root, we don't know. Big question mark. But, you know, hopefully the five days of Deep Root, and that's actually not even me being funny trying to say that again, will enlighten us on how that's going to be different. Name another one. I don't know. HomePin. Will you get your machine from HomePin? Sure. Yeah, I think you will. Yeah? Will it be good? I don't know. Well, I think we do know. Anyway. So look, as I was saying, lesson to learn. And I hope, I just hope that people don't get caught up in the theme hype. And that's really what has happened, right? So Alien in particular was a dream thing for so many people. They just wanted it to happen. And it blinded them to a logical decision, which is don't put money down. I just remember that frustrating conversation that I had when I caught wind of someone that I knew that wanted to get in on an alien and this is right before kind of the run to the bank and I just rang him and it was like it was such a long conversation and it only really needed to be a five minute conversation or less but the conversation just kept on going because he happened to say yeah but it's alien and I really like alien and I'm like okay cool I'm making alien dump your fucking money on me and I'll steal your money like you know what I mean like, hey guys, I'm making Harry Potter, send me all your fucking money and I'll keep it and I'll rip you off. Are you making Harry Potter? Yeah. Let me give you my credit card details right now. Exactly. I'll put my down to ten. Can I get a discount on ten of them? You idiot. I'm pretty sure I'm not the idiot in this. Yeah, I know. I know. What I'm trying to say is it's, yeah, as you said, it blinds them. The theme blinds them. Yep. Their childhood blinds them. It's like, if you're really happy to lose the money, then fair enough, but don't end up complaining about it on Pinside, saying, I'm going to hunt down Andrew and make sure he's hydro-folded. Well, okay, now, so you've actually just raised a very interesting name that is allowing me to bring up a point. We thought we'd moved on from Highway, but we haven't. The problem is that the likes of Pinside is where people go to get advice. They do. Yep. And there was some very well-known and well-respected people at Pinside that were advising people to put money down on an alien. Well, it happens. There's cheerleaders for every single manufacturer, right? Yeah. So, any of those people feel any sort of guilt of what's happened? I don't know. I mean, as I say, I don't know. I don't think you can blame anyone but yourself, really. I mean, unless someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes and give you the wrong information. But if they just say, this is a cool game, you know, highways... I don't know, unless it's the accountant, you know, telling you that, you know, we're in good financial situation. No, I know, but you and I are well informed. you a lot more than I am. And so if something came up, we would know the risks, we would know all the details. But let's say if somebody just saw on a Facebook post somewhere that a new alien pinball is coming down, they're going to want to go on the internet and research this. Go to Pinside. This is someone, I'm not mentioning their name, keeps spouting on about don't listen to all the haters. It's a done deal. I know the owner. I know the people. I've seen the machines. there's a food production one somebody's people aren't going to know what's reality and that comes back to my first point I made which is what's the freaking truth what's reality here it's really hard for people that don't know other people in the pinball hobby to really know what's going on yeah you could almost say that about anything in life I mean you put your money in the bank and then the next thing you know you know if you're in Greece or something like that you can't withdraw your money anymore and And it's just sometimes you have to kind of place some blind trust. But I was kind of mentioning before, like, I'm so jaded now by this whole, like, the pinball drama thing that I'm out of, like, everything. And I made this call, and, you know, maybe if you weren't getting it and six other people that I know getting an LE, I'd be like, oh, yeah, I need to get it. but I'm just past the point of buying new machines because there's nothing enticing enough for me to say, yep, I'm going to support this company by paying them before they finish the product. There's absolutely nothing that says, I should spend my hard-earned money to either fund the company or pay them before they finish the product. Not finish like hardware. I mean software and everything. animations, all the modes, everything. If you haven't finished it, then I don't want it. Yeah, fair enough. That's my philosophy, but, you know... No, and I completely respect that, and I understand why you've got that philosophy. And, you know, clearly that's somewhat a comment on my blind Iron Maiden, but, you know, I think there was certainly enough information to know, you know, it was a Keith Elwin game, it was Archer layout and it was Iron Maiden so there's enough of those and it's Stern right? but yeah no it wasn't a dig it wasn't a dig it was just more a dig in my experience in life with almost anything like if I when I ran a company and I send products out to people okay every once in a while something would be faulty and someone would say hey Ryan can I like it's my kids birthday or something give me a sob story and they say can you please send the replacement one back and then I'll send this one to you and I was making nothing, like 10% on these products, and whenever I let my guard down and did it, they would never send the faulty item back because they had no accountability. There's no reason for them to do so. But if I say, no, you send it back, and then I send it to you, then they have to do it. I know it sucks, and not trusting people, but when someone doesn't have any, as I said, accountability for their actions, then they can do it. It's an option to not finish something, not do the best that they can do, not deliver a product, go to Australia and start fucking riding the curl curl hydrofoil. You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. So do you know what this done, which, okay, maybe I'm making this a bit more grand than it needs to be. But so, you know, I've now, how many new inboxes have I had? Three. Star Trek, Hobbit, Wizard of Oz, right? Yeah. And that putting money down, waiting for the pinball to arrive, and then it arriving and unboxing it and playing it for the first time, that whole experience, whether it's one month, two months, six months, because I think Hobbit was like six months from money down to getting it, that was an amazing experience. I loved that experience. I loved the anticipation. I loved waking up every morning and checking where that stupid freaking ship was in the middle of the ocean that had my Hobbit on it. I loved that. And I loved, you know, Lucas coming over and unboxing it and then fixing everything that was wrong. And then we played it. I don't want that experience to be tainted. And I know this sounds a bit silly for me to go. I want you to experience that again, Ryan. Please can't you experience that again? No, the Hobbit killed. No, I understand You have no idea how obsessed I was with The Hobbit before I bought it Like, you don't know at all Well, I can pretty much gather knowing you as well as I do now Like, every single video of The Hobbit I watched Every single stream I watched Like, every night It was sad Every bit of news Every interview The interviews were the same Like, Jack would go from one place to another And I still enjoyed it When I picked it up I still enjoy the shit out of it for months and months and months, but then it kind of, like, it wears off, and I'd rather just get a second-hand T-Mobile machine. I'd rather be like, yeah, I made it. It's fucking amazing now. Like, I'll buy it. Anyway. I totally agree with you, and as I said, I respect and like the fact that that's your call. I just think it's shitty that, you know, if it's, you know, code that hasn't lived up to its hype or the machine hasn't lived up to its hype, all the machines that haven't arrived, that's just that shitty impact that it has on our enjoyment of the new in-box experience. As I said, it's almost like it's not the new in-box experience, it's new in-box drama, because regardless of what is happening, people will pick at something. For example, segue to Jersey Jack. They revealed their new kind of apron for Pirates of the Caribbean, because I believe some people were kind of complaining that the other apron was quite dark. and now people are complaining about their apron. It's just like, just don't give the people what they want because they just complain about everything. I know that sounds stupid and contradictory to what I just kind of mentioned before, but yeah, Pirates is coming along. I have been watching the streams now more than normal and I don't know. Aprons, I mean, their apron is nice because there's no yellow cards on it, so thumbs up from me, guys. They listened They knew the only thing to make you happy Was for them to not put yellow cards on Well done They haven't had yellow cards from the beginning That was one of their founding pillars of success Like EGP Monster Bash Remake, Marty When are we going to see it? Well I don't know But isn't there some Rumour now that it's not going to be the next one? No. Someone posted, it's the Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show, and it's happening in June sometime, I think, and they posted a Facebook post saying, hey, you can win a pinball machine, and the grand prize is a brand new Monster Bash pinball machine, the remake. And then literally, like, someone screencapped it, and then literally 10 minutes later, they removed it. Right. so I pretty sure it is the most abashed remake it it come back It be revealed soon I guess What someone showed me on the weekend was the medieval You know how AFM has the big screen? Yes. The huge, yes, the oversized screen. So I believe they're now at a show, I believe. They showed the medieval madness version of that. And I have no idea how much it costs, but it looks cool, right? Yeah. Yeah, okay, cool. Looks great. I don't know what you're going to say to that, but yes, it does look good. It looks great. And so what we loved about the Attack from Mars remake was the big screen. Yeah, yeah. Actually, they've got the dots there anyway. They were just on a small screen. But another bit of news, Marty, that I've just caught on this week in Kimball, just before we move on from Jersey Jack, apparently it's heavily rumoured that the next title from Jersey Jack was going to be Toy Story, followed by Willy Wonka, but now apparently it's flicked. So apparently Willy Wonka might be next, and Toy Story will be after that. Even though the Toy Story movie comes out in June 2019, which I guess revealing that next would make sense, because it probably takes them six months to produce it, maybe they had a change of heart, and if that is a title they're bringing out, it will include all four movies instead of three movies, right? Right, okay. Who knows? But I think that the first three movies have followed enough as an overall story arc to kind of be a complete pinball machine, but maybe you've read the script of the fourth, and I don't know, maybe it continues on quite well. Who knows? Okay. Are you interested in any of those titles, Willy Wonka or Toy Story? I am more interested in Willy Wonka Obviously if it was the superior Johnny Depp version Is that all I'm going to get from you? Because I repressed that memory And now I remember that I actually don't like you as a human being Okay, my take on it is it's very interesting, both of those themes, because Willy Wonka is very, in my mind, similar to Wizard of Oz in that it's a timeless classic. It's an old classic. It's a movie that we saw in our childhood that we now reflect on as an adult. I don't know how it resonates. I think visually it will make a spectacular machine. Yeah, Jersey Jack are pretty good at... I don't know, we just saw what we saw with Wizard of Oz and I think they're both amazing things for that company to do. Pat Lawler was apparently the guy that was meant to be working on Toy Story, so who would be working on Willy Wonka to be shifted up there? I mean, they only have, I guess, Eric and Pat Lawler. Yeah, so does that mean that Pat's done two, or does that mean Eric has been designing this in his spare time? That's why I couldn't do the three-screen disc. Ah, that's why. We figured it out. But Toy Story is a theme as well. What I like about Toy Story and what it represents is that I think it's more of a current young audience theme. Yeah. Well, it's 20 years old, right? Yeah, it is. But, I don't know, it just seems more modern than Willy Wonka does. Oh, for sure. Like I said, Willy Wonka hits the right nostalgia points, I think, for a lot of people. Yeah. And talking about nostalgia, can we talk about these next two rumoured Stern titles? Can we stay way into that? We can. Okay. Well, we weren't going to. Yeah, we weren't going to. but, you know, then this week in pinball has just announced them as well, so let's say what they are. Well, they're not announced yet. They're rumoured, Marty, so these things might not happen. They might not. You never know. You never know. So the first one is Beetlejuice. Are you a Beetlejuice fan, Marty? No, I'm really not. Now, I will tell you, though, I have seen the film. Ten points for you, Marty. Thank you. Probably the first film that we've noted in this entire podcast that I've actually seen. And I liked the film a lot, but I've never seen it since. 1998, right? So, geez, how... Okay, that's 30 years, right? So, another tick for the nostalgia thing. Old as fuck thing. It's a bit of a cult classic in that... Was it popular back in the day? Okay, budget, $15 million. Box office, $73 million. I don't think $73 million was that much back in the day. It's not a lot, but the movie didn't cost too much. It probably did much better in the video store, back when you could get videos. Exactly. I mean, I was four years old when this came out, well, three and a half when this came out. So I watched it when I moved in with my girlfriend, who is now my wife, and it was a movie that she watched religiously as a childhood. And maybe that's why she's so fucked up, because this movie is fucked up. It's really fucking weird, isn't it? It's weird as fuck, and she used to watch it as a kid. As an adult, you know, probably not so much. But I was like, yeah, cool. But as I said, there's nothing there for me to, you know, no nostalgia strings to porn. The other theme is Superman, the original Superman, 1978. So the movie. So not from the original TV show, but the movie? is that right? Yeah, let me look up Superman 1978. Yeah, I think 1978 was when the first, first like, is it like Christopher Reeve movie came out or something like that? Yeah. So, okay, budget, 55 million, box office, 300 million, right? So that's a lot more. It's a little bit better. The Superman that I remember the most, I'm not sure about you, Marty, is the one where the aliens kind of float around in mirrors in space. That's number two. Yeah, whatever it was. I was going to say like the Forbidden Zone or Triangle or whatever the bloody hell it is. Zod, I think, was one of the characters' names. Yeah, that was Superman 2. Okay, that box office for that was $190 million, so I guess they chose the right one to base it off. So, I haven't watched the movie since I was a little kid, but it's Superman. I mean, who doesn't like Superman? It's freaking awesome. Yeah. Do you know what's really interesting? You know, when we streamed a few weeks ago, we actually streamed the, I think it's the only Superman pinball that's ever existed, the old Atari. And so many people were in chat asking about, you know, will they make a new one? And I honestly just went, no. If they were going to make one, they would have done it by now. Yeah. I mean, I guess DC, I mean, Marvel has obviously been writing the comic book Wave and DC were pretty slow, but now they kind of joined the party and making the... What was it? When were they joined all together? That was a such a shit movie. But, yeah, I mean, Superman is an evergreen thing. Justice League, was it? Yeah, Justice League, yeah. Anyway, that's a good title. Beetlejuice, this is the weird thing. Superman, you could put that anywhere, right? It's good for operators, it's good for collectors. All three models that Stern has, tick, tick, tick, right? Like, Beetlejuice? The collectors. A Beetlejuice Pro. Like, who would buy a Beetlejuice Pro? I don't think people on location are really going to be flocking to it. That title is more suited, I think, to, like, a super... Like, you've got to be really into it, right? Well, yeah. Like, as soon as you just said that, you know, which collector, it's like, but also, if that was on location, who would walk past it and go, oh, hell yeah, here's my two bucks. I don't know. I mean, when I was in Vegas, I was blown away by the licensing for slot machines. It was like Big Bang Bar slots. Oh, yeah. Downtown Abbey slots. I was like, what the fuck? I know. I know. It's really funny. When you go to Vegas, they will stick any old shitty license in a fucking slot machine. Well, there was a breaking... Yeah, there was a breaking bad one as well. I was like, oh, that's pretty good. Oh, my funniest one. And I've now seen it since, so I know it's one of these things. but when I saw that they had an Ellen slot machine. Ellen like? Ellen the talk show device. Ellen DeGeneres. Ellen DeGeneres has a slot machine. And, you know, I love all things that are kitsch. So I was like, oh, hell yeah, I've got to go and play this. And when you get like the bonus feature, she just walks out. Is that dancing? Yeah, well, she does dance, but she walks out and she does a joke and then walks off the screen. It's actually hilarious. But they put them... There was a whole row of Rolling Stones slots and arguably better than the Stern pinball machine. So... Yeah, I saw the Wonka one there, so I'm guessing the license is kind of similar for that. There's a Ron Burgundy one. Really? Game of Thrones, obviously. The Goonies. Oh, my gosh. Okay, the fact that there's a Goonies slot machine really excites me. You think? Really? Yes. a Goonies slot machine. That's why I didn't play one slot machine because I think I just hate slot machines. Maybe I would have enjoyed it because maybe if you get laughs out of it then it's worth it. But I don't actually understand it. How good is the Goonies film? It's magical. I have no idea. Fuck you, Marty. That was a trap. I've never seen it. Elvira was there with the big boobies. I'm just looking through my pictures now, guys. This is really riveting stuff. The Big Lebowski. I wonder if they'll make a Big Lebowski pinball machine. Plants vs. Zombies 3D. No way. Plants vs. Zombies 3D. Unbelievable. Downtown Abbey. Sons of Anarchy. There was Sons of Anarchy. There was The Simpsons. Yeah, okay. Fucking Michael Jackson. There was a Michael Jackson one. I don't know. Anyway, what was our point? We just fucking went off on a tangent there. We were just talking about these licenses. So Superman and Beta Juice. Oh, Ted. Sorry. one more Ted as in the as in the Seth MacFarlane movie yes what Ted oh okay two more I got a fucking million pictures here Sherlock Holmes right off a TV show oh okay I think and Orange is the New Black Marty there's an Orange is the New Black slot machine like yeah it's my fucking thing about lesbians in fucking jail oh my god the Breaking Bad was one and that's one that I'd love to see implemented as a pinball machine just to see what they're going to do because it is about cooking nests. And you somehow weave that into a pinball machine. Can't see that in a time zone. Yeah. Anyway, Superman. Yes. Okay, look. So when I think of Superman, I think it would have to be a fast-flow game and maybe that will be Steve Ritchie's next machine considering he did the first Steve Ritchie, the first Superman song? That's right. Yeah, that's right. Steve Ritchie did a Steve Ritchie. That was one of our episode names. That's right. A Steve Ritchie's a Steve Ritchie. The thing about Beetlejuice, I will say this, is that even though I can't remember too much of the movie, what I do remember, it did have a very sort of vivid and recognisable visual style. So I think visually it could make a great machine. Oh, my gosh. The colours and stuff from that pinball and the humour and the kind of craziness, you know, it is a good licence to work off. There's multiple hats we can put on, right? We put the operator hat on, you know, maybe not that good. We put the collector hat on, yes, it's going to be amazing. The artwork hat on, oh, my gosh, they can go nuts with this. Call-outs, you know, it depends on which angle you're going for, but Superman's obviously going to sell a shit tonne. Well, you could save the hyperdrive for that, right? The hyperdrive... Do you remember that scene in Superman where, like, someone dies and then he travels around the world? Turn it backwards. Turn it backwards. Yes. Yeah, turn it backwards. That's the hyperdrive. That should be, like, the wizard mode, the fucking loading into the hyperdrive. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. They'll use it again. They'll use it again. Yeah, absolutely. So, look, as we've said, there are rumours. We just don't know. I mean, other ones, you know, Deadpool, Monsters, Beatles, Steve Richards, Black Knight 3000. I'm literally just reading this off this bit and pimple. so that's like six titles like holy shit and then there's Elvira 3 don't forget that yeah like what do you think about that what do you think about this stuff leaking out I mean I was just about to say what I think is someone needs to shut some people's mouths like how does this stuff get out someone needs to shut the fuck up um I mean me and Marty kind of got this information a couple of days ago. I mean, you know, we sat on it and we weren't going to talk about it at all because, I mean, it's hard. I know that sounds horrible, but I don't think people need to know six titles in advance, right? Like, I know it might save people's money and like, ah, you know, Superman's my dream theme and I was going to buy Deadpool to tie me over or, you know, but now I'll save my money up and that might be good for the consumer. But, I don't know. I mean, pinball machines hold enough of their value and you don't really know what machine's going to be good and what isn't. I just don't, yeah, I don't want to know that far in advance anymore. Maybe the next title or something, but six hours in advance? Like, holy shit. I know. It's kind of what I was saying before about the whole new inbox experience. Sometimes it's actually kind of nice to have to wait and then have it revealed, and then, you know what, it's only a couple of months away. So, you know, we talked about Iron Maiden, and, you know, people were saying, oh, you know, Stern really hyped it up. No, they didn't. They didn't mention it at all. In fact, the first time on Red Bull they actually mentioned it was when they had that five-second clip on the Deadly Train, right? That was the first time they mentioned it, right? That's hilarious. Because it's true. It's just like, for all of us, you know, consumed by podcasts and pin-sides, you know, nothing is new. But for everyone else, when they make that announcement and that post on Facebook, like, Serna from Elk Road Village is proud to announce, and we're like, yeah, we fucking know. Well, I remember. I've got to say, I remember the first time I knew, and I know it's not necessarily the title that people get excited about, but when WrestleMania came out, the first I saw of it was the day that they revealed it. Yeah. That was the first I knew about it. And obviously it was a letdown because I didn't really like the title. But that was back in the day where, you know, these loose lips weren't sinking ships. Well, maybe they were. And maybe we just weren't in the loop back then. I don't know. I'm starting to think like, as I said, with social media, you know, This Week in Pinball kind of having that list that's always there kind of to remind you. And with podcasts, I mean. Yeah. There's probably a bit of competition out there to try and who can get the scoop on this stuff. I'm happy not to get the scoop. No, that's right. If people are going to mention it anyway, then, you know, I don't want to avoid it like it doesn't, you know, bury my head in the sand. It's out there. So there we go. It's a lot of titles. You can jump on This Week in Pinball and see the full list of rumoured titles from all manufacturers. as I said they're rumours but they've never really been wrong so yeah that was the news we got a Stern of the Union nothing really much in there but what that little thing that I added into the show notes I was browsing Reddit in the Pimble sub-forum and someone posted that Stern of the Union as a thread and I just clicked on it and looked at the comments it made me laugh so much because so this is reddit maybe they're some people are out of the loop someone said what the fuck is a stern army it made me laugh they must have been in Australia where it means nothing to us it means nothing to us yeah come on who's looking after it Zach Schaaf maybe come on Zach get us a stern army we want to be stern yeah we'll be the first ones rage tilt at Ryan's like his house can be the first stern army because we don't really have that many locations here I know you're on the Gold Coast, Brisbane. They've got heaps. There's a couple of big locations with stern machines here. You could do it. And if you want to promote more sales in this country... Anyway. Free transplants. Anyway. So there was more code updates. So Star Wars, we're in the final phase of testing the latest code. Guardians of the Galaxy, blah, blah, blah. Batman 6 is another great update. Yes, it's looking really good. Hopefully we'll be able to stream that with the latest code soon. Kiss coming up. I don't know. That's it. As I said, everything is just up and coming. I mean, it's going to be the same thing almost every, you know, every month until there actually is the update. And, hey, there have been a lot of updates recently. I mean, when we first started the podcast, it was like, oh, my gosh, there's been an update. But now there's like two a week or something. There's updates every week, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So things are moving in the right direction there. Well, let's plug some podcasts. We talked about how there's a million podcasts out there at the moment. Yes. There was two new ones kind of announced this week. There's the Riptide podcast with Steph and Crystal. Yes. Two females. So Mrs. Pin kind of opened the floodgates and now there's women everywhere. I listen to their podcast. Yes. Great little introduction to who they are. Yes. So that's called the Riptide podcast. We will link it in the show notes. And there's another one this morning, Marty. Is that right? It was. Well, isn't it official? I would say if there's a Facebook page, it's official. Yeah. You can look at that, mate. Silver Ballers. We like the cool name. Christopher Franchi, our mate. We gave him a taste of podcast fame, and he enjoyed it. And, yeah, basically, I think he's going to be interviewing people in the industry. And I'm guessing it might be Stern only, since he's a Stern employee. so we'll link that in the show notes as well. There's no episodes. I guess this is also a good chance to thank everyone, I guess, for subscribing and listening to our podcast. As we mentioned, when me and Miley started, when we got the stack working, we were like, oh my gosh, look, there's 100 downloads. Oh, there's 150. And then I think one day one of the episodes hit 1,000 and we were like, holy shit, let's have a party. I know. That was so long ago. Yeah. And now, like, the Keith P. Johnson episodes, I know Keith has an amazing resume with his 20 years extensive experience and, you know, Lord of the Rings and this and this and that. Well, he can add to his list now, like, the most downloaded episode on the Hedgehead podcast because that episode went absolutely gate-busters. Absolutely bananas. So, being Marty, I always say we don't know what people want to hear. You know, was it the fact that Keith is a coder and people like code? was the fact that he spoke really openly about everything. We didn't edit anything from that interview. He just spoke freely. So let us know what you actually like. We get feedback, but people don't say, oh, I like that more than this. They just say, yeah, that was cool. That was a cool interview. Enjoy. We appreciate it. We are humbled. We're really happy that people are enjoying what we do. So don't forget to vote on the trippies. Marty, where do you like to play pinball? In your house? I play pinball most in my house at the moment, yes. Have you ever played pinball on the bus, Marty? Have I? Yes, I have. The pinball party bus. I have played it on the pinball party bus. Who is the pinball party bus, you ask? Let's find out, motherfucker. Let's do this. All right, so joining us today, this is something that we mentioned. Believe it or not, Ryan, episode four of our podcast was the first time that we mentioned the pinball party bus. Can you remember that far ago? I do. It was exactly 38 weeks ago. I remember like it was yesterday. And so 38 weeks later, we've decided to get Mick and Dion from the party bus on our podcast for a bit of a chat. How are you, boys? Yeah, good, thanks, guys. Thank you. So walk us through the story, the origin story. Obviously, you guys had a number of pinball machines in your house. How do you go from there to gutting a bus and putting the pinball machines in the bus? Yeah, well, all right, the way it really started was probably about five years ago, we got our first sort of project pinball together, which was fish cows. and that took us probably about three months to get all the parts. It had nothing in the backbox at all, no boards, a lot of bits and flippers missing, the catapult, the fishing reel and Dion was pretty much the one that sourced all the parts for it and we ended up getting it working within about three months. Yeah, I had to research and pretty much find everything, the whole hardware, all the boards that work with the whole system, the WPC system that runs. And so from there, because that one ended up being successful, it just drove us to get another project pinball and then sell that and then get two more, and then it just sort of built over five years. We did about 20. Yeah, our first one was a revenge from Lars. We had to travel pretty much six hours up to New South Wales. Had to go to Wagga Wagga to get revenge from Mars. So that's a pretty big undertaking to fix a project machine. What was the background behind that? Did you have experience with other types of electronics? No, not at all. We just thought let's... We had a little bit of computer knowledge, but there was no really, I don't know, no tech knowledge much. Yeah, I mean, we both loved pinball anyway and just thought let's give it a go. and if it wasn't successful, I don't think we'd be here today. But as it was successful, it just kick-started our desire to create more, fix more machines and that built up enough profit to have four to five machines at home to keep. So from there, once we had them at home, people would come visit us and we'd have parties here and then they'd say, guys, can we hire one or two machines for our party? And then we'd go, oh, yeah, but we've got to pack it up, fold it up, put it in the four-wheel drive, take it there, leave it there, come back the next day and repeat the process. So my brother-in-law, Adrian, he, like I said, there must be a way to deliver many pinballs at once without having to set them up each time. And my brother-in-law just sort of offhand said, Can they go in a bus? And I just sort of went, yeah, they probably could. So that was probably about two and a half years ago he said that. And I mentioned it to a bus driver friend of mine who works with a bus company and he said occasionally they decommission old buses and he'll let me know if they ever have one. So it was about December 2016. yeah December 2016 just before Christmas he gave me a call said Mick the boss is getting rid of two buses practically giving them away do you want them both and I said I think maybe one might be enough to start with just for now and we don't have enough pinball machines to fill two anyway so I said why not you know now's the opportunity let's give it a go and I said once dad told me I was like oh we're really doing this. It became a reality and we just dived in, give it a shot and from there we just sort of sourced a few friends who, firstly Dion and I took all the seats out of the bus, that took a while. Dion was underneath holding the nuts with a spanner, I was drilling the bolts out through the floor and we had to sometimes actually really try and force the seats out because the screws were pretty much so rusted after 30 years that the seats couldn't come off. The bus was 30 years old, so the seats had never been removed in that time, so the bolts were a bit rusty. Yeah. So was the bus in decent condition, like the engine and everything? Like, has it... You know, did they ever change? I mean, the bus is always on the road driving, so I'm guessing after 30 years, it either had its engine replaced or got over a... Yeah, yeah. I'll give them... A couple of thousand miles from there. Yeah, I was given the whole service history, a big pad of paper with all the regular servicing. So it had been well maintained and was in great condition, but the registration had run out. So I had to sort of do the roadworthy, get all the mechanics up to date. But that was all within our budget. And, yeah, so then after we removed the seats, we had a friend who is a welder who I met in an English class. I help sort of migrants with a second language, help them in conversational English. And he is a welder, and he helped weld up some frames that bolt to the floor, and then it's like a cradle, so the pinballs sit on that welded frame without the pinball machine leaks. And, yeah, also another friend who was like a sign writer, He helped us with our logos and all the signage, our flyers, and the sign decals on the bus itself. So that probably all took about six months to get it all up to scratch. And by July 2017, we were on the road, ready to go. Yeah, already. We launched and the week before the launch, we basically went to my TAFE that I was at during that year and revealed it to everyone there as a free launch. Yeah. And so that was at an event called TGF at Frankston, Frankston TAFE. So they do that during the school holidays. I think it's Tech Games Fest. Tech Games Fest. So it's all about video games and making them and playing and one of my teachers, like I told him about it because I told him I like fixing pinball machines and playing them and then he told him about the bus and he said, oh, this would be great at our TGF event. Yeah, and of course the first two people who came on board the bus, our very first time that we started, was Stacey and Jordan Treadway. Who knew about that? Oh, wow. So yeah, Dion's teacher from TAFE Knew Stacey through I think Melbourne Silverball And Weird and Retro I think it was too Yeah, he said, I've got a pinball friend And it happened to be Stacey And he brought Jordan along So they were the first two on the bus So for those who aren't familiar What are the five machines Five machines on board the pinball party bus? That's right, yeah Five pinballs Also, we've got the Addams Family, which is my all-time favourite. Simpsons Pinball Party, which is one of my favourites and the one that pretty much got me into pinball. Family Guy, Jurassic Park and the old Simpsons, Data East Simpson. And that's probably been one of our most reliable ones, the oldest one. Yeah. and so how long after launch I guess did you know the the phone go off the hook for you to be booked into parties and what sort of um journey was that like yeah it's interesting because um like even with say with Facebook I wasn't even on Facebook before I had the bus and I thought this is a quick way to get out to people and my wife said yeah yeah you might as well set up a page and we've got a website as well. My brother-in-law helped us set that up. But yeah, I've just found Facebook was such a quick way to tell a lot of people at once and then your friends tell their friends and it just spread from there. And also we were fortunate enough to my wife sent an email to our local newspaper, the Knox Leader and yeah, they quickly got on to us, did an interview, did a photo shoot and And once it was in the Knox Leader, it then linked to the main Herald Sun website, and we got phone calls from there, which was great. And so how many events would you do a week, month or year? Well I mean we only really set it up to do as a weekend thing at the moment and just if it grows from there that great So yeah birthday parties any events or functions on weekends we attended, probably get maybe a couple of birthdays a month and that's on weekends again. We just recently last weekend did, we were at the whole weekend at the Man Cave Expo at the Melbourne Showgrounds And that really just was an event where, so, you know, if you want to set up your man cave or a games room, anything that goes in there like pinball machines, pool tables. Sound systems, even beer, furniture. Furniture. Old granophones they had and various antiques. And we thought we'd try to get in on that. And for those who either can't afford to buy a pinball machine for their man cave their significant partner won't let them buy one, then hiring the bus was another option. Yeah, and Zach's Amusements was also there too, and we said to them, like, if you want to buy a pinball, you can head down to Zach's Amusements, and they've got some of the new games, like Iron Maiden that's coming out, or Star Wars, or Batman 66. And they said, if you want to hire, go to those guys down there, the pinball party bus and we gave them pamphlets and we helped each other out and we were sort of referring each other to each other. Yeah, it was pretty good. So obviously these machines, since they're on a bus and the bus has some kind of suspension, that's one of the first things I noticed when I was in the pinball party bus with my family is there's no tilt bar, obviously, because people would step on the left or the right and the machine would tilt without you kind of doing anything. so have you ever had any issues with people kind of, I guess they are in the bracket so people can't throw them around too much but has anyone ever been kind of so rough that you had to kick them off the bus so to speak? No, no, no, they've mainly been pretty good. Occasionally you get the ones that shake it a bit harder than others but yeah, the frames they sit on are pretty sturdy so there's never been a problem. Initially we did leave the tilts in there but they kept tilting, Like when we would walk in and out, it would just all tilt, so we just unscrewed the little bob. Yeah, so it was more people walking around that caused the tilt rather than people shaking the machine. And so how do you level the bus itself when you actually arrive and you've got, you know, like it's on a bit of an angle? How do you prop the bus up to its level? Yeah, sure. I mean, usually, so if someone makes a booking, I always go on Google View and check out what their street looks like. If it looks too hilly or too much of an angle, I'll let them know, hey, I can park around the corner, that looks a bit more level. But, you know, we've sort of had 100% success rate and kept it level each time. And it's usually a left-right thing because if we park the bus on the street, the street always angles towards the curb for drainage. So we usually put planks of sleeper wood, thick pieces of wood, under one side of the bus where the kerb is and just drive it up to level off the left side usually. Have you ever thought, and was it ever part of your thought process, because, you know, sometimes when you're driving around in a city, you see those party buses where there's like a little mini disco for, you know, teenagers and people that are going to their, you know, their prom or their whatever it's called in Australia, I've forgotten. I've been Americanized. So have you ever thought of something similar where people could go on the pinball party bus and play pinball while the bus is driving? I think you've answered your own question. It's like, this isn't safe. People think we do that. A lot of people think we do that, especially at the Man Cave Expo. They kept saying, oh, how do you keep the bus, how do you play while it's moving? so I said no no no just stay still stay steady and level just a portable arcade that will stay at your house the bus is really just a delivery system that's what I tell them it's a way to deliver many pimples to you at once but we we always get phone calls from people saying oh I'm ringing up to about the bus can you pick up about 20 of us from you know road but pick us up from Rosebud and take us to Melbourne Airport? I said, no, no, it's not a bus. So we don't even have seats in for passengers. It's really just to deliver the pinballs to them. Yeah, they've only got just one seat for me to sit in while we drive and the rest is just the pinballs fill up. That's it. And, I mean, my main concern was always going to be bus driving around, shaking, rattling and going over speed bumps. I just thought, gee, this is really going to loosen a few wires and fuses and things like that. But I've been really surprised how well they've held up. Yeah, we fold the heads pretty much down and strap them while they're moving so they won't fall out of the frame. Yeah. So they're snugly fit in. No, they travel nicely. I'm really surprised how well they travel. And so do you now no longer have machines inside your house? Nope, no, it's so quiet My wife Karen loves it So no desires? That's why we keep heading to those competitions And entering in those raffles at pinball charity Because we definitely want one back at home That's right, we definitely want one at home We'd love to get another one back home Just so we don't have to keep driving to the bus to play our own pinballs So where is the bus? It's not in your house? It's parked at a bus stop, is that right? Well, it's parked at a storage facility and has 24-hour access that has floodlit car park, 24-7 security, cameras. So, you know, we might end up coming back from a party around midnight or later and we can safely park the bus with a swipe card, get in, leave the bus there, get back in our car and go home. So it's been great where we've parked it. It's been a really good facility. And so what machines that you know of that have been recently coming out are you most excited about? And I guess what I'm asking is if you could get a machine that you would put in home, what would it be? In home or in the bus? Let's just say in the home. So it's strictly not a business decision. Okay, sure. I'll pass it on to Dan. For me, I have a huge wish list of tons of machines, but for me, I have a huge wish list of a ton of machines, but I think it would be either a Lord of the Rings, a Batman 66, or a Metallica. Those are my top three. I'd maybe get one of those. Yeah, I think Batman 66 for me, because I grew up with that Batman. I'm probably in Marty's era. Sure. And I'm slowly getting into it too because my uncle actually gave me for my 18th the Blu-ray box set of all three seasons and I'm like, yes, I can watch it because I came back from Chicago after seeing Batman in the factory. I was like, I need to watch this series now since they're making a pinball of it as well too. That's awesome. And I mean, you said that you kind of restored possibly about 20 machines. So obviously you were kind of turning over your collection quite regularly. those five machines in the party bus, like, once you put them in there, were you like, that's it, we're done? Like, I guess since everyone that you're going to is a new customer, you don't need to cycle them around, like, somewhere, like at Pixel Albi where it's static and the same people are coming, you have to turn them over. Yeah, that's right. That's what I thought. I thought we might have to rotate them every now and then, but I thought we're not really going to get that many repeat customers within, you know, like a month or so. that it's not like they're going to go, oh, you've still got those? No, but every function we go to is a new event, really. Yeah. It can be a bit of a pace, taking them on and off the bus. It's easier to get them on than getting them off. We had to take one off to put a family guy in, and there was a bit of a headache getting it out through the front door of the bus. If we could, we would like to put maybe... Yeah, they weren't. It was, but, yeah, at the moment, these machines are working out pretty well, and everyone loves them. Yeah, especially Adam's family. Some people go, Adam's family? That's what they used to play in at all the time. Yeah, quite a lot of people who come on are really happy to see Adam's family again because they haven't seen it since, I don't know, 20 years ago. Do people offer to buy the machines off you? Yes. I'll take it off you. Yeah, a couple of people have. All they've inquired where you can find, you know, an Addams Family or a Simpsons gimbal party. Yeah. Yeah, but we just keep saying, no, these machines are not for sale. These are our collection, pretty much. But I should say, as you mentioned at the start of the interview, Marty, you know, you mentioned this in episode four of your podcast and by the week later, Ryan came and saw us at one of our first events, which was the Donut and Beer Festival. Oh, yeah. And, yeah, from there it's really just, it's been great how the pinball community has sort of just been opened up to us through, yeah, probably from meeting Ryan initially and then Stacey, Jordan and Martin. It's just sort of grown from there. We really feel like we're part of a pinball community, which is great. because Bomber Action, after they finished their once-a-month pinball thing, we were just wondering, where can we play pinball now? And now we see you all over the place. Yeah, exactly. It's the number one thing. When I see someone that's interested in pinball, it's usually when I'm buying a machine off someone, off Gumtree or something. It's just it always pains me to see that somebody's interested in the hobby and they're not part of the community because that's the best part of it. and I think I mentioned Aussie Arcade or something to you, Nick, and I can't remember if it was the buy-sell group, but yeah, you're kind of everywhere now, and you and Dion, it's great to kind of see you guys out and about and spreading the word. You guys are pinball ambassadors, I guess, as well, because you're delivering pinball machines to people that bring you up. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of good locations to play them, but not everyone can get to those locations, so it feels good to bring the pinball to them, to the people, and, yeah, expose some people for the first time, especially we do quite a few teenage birthday parties and some of the kids or their friends have just never seen a pinball before. They just come in and go, Whoa, what are these? But you can really tell the ones that pick it up straight away and the ones that just keep double flipping all the time. But we do tell them, like, when the ball goes to the left hit the left flipper button and same when it goes to the right and if they do get that then they start to play really well they can get it pretty well some of them you just tell them the basics and they just you go wow if they keep playing they're going to you know they're going to be in Jordan's league and so so where again you mentioned it before so where can people find you again if they want a people party bus and we probably must also mention that this is in Melbourne in Australia. So if you're overseas they're probably not going to put it on a boat, I'd imagine. We would want to get it to America and also have it there in Chicago and Canada. But for now we'll work on Australia at the moment. But I should mention it is a world only concept. If you Google it, I bet you won't be able to find it anywhere else. So it is only in Melbourne, Australia. but we do plan to, we'd love to be in Texas next year at the Pinball Festival with Ryan maybe again, or Martin. Yeah, one of us will be there, I'm sure. And yeah, I'm hoping to maybe even give a little talk or a seminar about the pinball bus, a little presentation and just see if we can partner with someone in the States. Yeah. So if anyone's listening, we might be at Texas, pop over and come and have a chat with us, see what the possibilities are to expand in America or Canada. And even meet some of the people. You should have bought that second bus. That second bus that you got offered. That would have been your franchise opportunity. I should mention our website is www.pinballpartybus.com www.pinballpartybus.com and we're also on Facebook, Pinball Party Bus, three words. Are you also one's the sharing Google thing only Instagram is the other one oh there you go well thanks guys for coming on really appreciate all you do for pinball in Melbourne and hopefully global at some stage thank you very much guys it's been a pleasure and as I said listen out America here we come thanks for having us awesome thanks guys see you guys bye so there you go honestly two of the nicest people you will ever meet in the pinball community yep spreading the love one pinball bus at a time and as I said they're at every competition they can get to now they're coming to my my rage skills that were there the previous month and they're quite good players and they're learning and yeah it's great to have them yeah and it's really funny I mean they sort of mentioned it as well but if you remember I think it was kind of like even episode three, we mentioned something about the pinball party bus, and then the week after, you had sort of met them, and then we talked about it more. And I remember back at the time, you said, and they're going to come along to a competition. I went, oh, okay, cool. It'd be really good to meet them. And now we see them at competitions all the time, and they're just great people. Yeah. As I mentioned in the interview, it's great to be part of the pinball community, because that's what's the best thing about pinball. I just listen to Mrs. Pin go off the bat. I'm not sure if you've listened to it on the way to the party. go off about how much fun she had in Allentown. And it reminded me of that part of my pinball journey as well, going to my first whatever and saying, wow, why are people so nice? Yep. Am I an arsehole? Yeah. Why am I not nice? Yep. And it rubs off on you and you end up becoming nice. I mean, fast forward a bit. I loved the latest episode of Mrs. Pin. So I especially loved when she was freaking ecstatic because she came 95th out of 102 people. Like, I couldn't stop smiling as I was driving in my car listening to her podcast, just feeling how excited she was. But that's what it's like. Well, it's true. She's a glass, you know, half-full person because, yeah, she beat seven people. I know. After missing out on the first round. So, yeah, we'll see. What else have we got this week, Ryan? Well, I'm just looking at the Pinside Top 100, Marty. Yes. And Iron Maiden has... It was at one, and then it was five, and it seems to update, Marty, like literally while we're recording. So we've got a good time slot here. It's back up to number three. Number three. Okay, so it's had some new ratings. Yeah, and, I mean, we kind of went on a bit of a bitch. I'm not sure if it was mainly me about people... We both kind of took a bit of the piss out of it, out of some of the ratings. Yeah, and what we got, and we forgot to mention this last week, but we got an email from a very kind of disgruntled Pinsider. Should I play the voice recording, Marty? Yeah, if you can. Okay. Hey, this is Pinside Pete. You guys got a freaking attitude problem. I'll tell you why I gave those ratings I did on Pinside. Here's why. Iron Maiden, it says two minutes to midnight. I know it wasn't because it was 8.30. It was my bedtime. That's a fail. And TNA, total nuclear annihilation? I'm sorry, but the girl on the back glass just doesn't do it for me. She's not hot like the Spryce and Spares girl. Oh, boy. So you don't like my ratings. Let me rate you two guys. Martin, you need to smile more. Try laughing once in a while. Maybe have a drink. Take the edge off. I give you a seven. And Ryan, you never know what's going to come out of his mouth. Last time I listened, he talked about a circle jerk. Gross. No one's ever going to see my wiener, ever. So you two guys can just fuck off. Hey, did you just swear? No, Mom. I had to go. I have listened to that sound clip. I don't know how many times. and it's so perfect. This guy goes by the name of Pinside Petey. It's Pinside Petey. Pinside Petey. What a little shit. Yeah. I love how he gave you a seven, but then he didn't rate me. He just said I'm fucking gross. You're beyond rating. I'm beyond rating. I'm unrateable. So, shall we go to the slam? Shall we use that as a segue to the slam that's up 100? Yes. So let's recap on what happened last week. I got Doctor Who. You got Catacomb. I think that's how you say it. Well, how do you really say it? Catacomb. So there were 66 votes. I managed to pull out the win just, and I'm pretty sure it was because I had the most epic gift ever of a cat being combed by like seven people. And people were even commenting saying, I gave you the vote because of the cat gift. Who doesn't love cat gifts? So, what was Catacomb? Catacomb was like 99 or something. Something like that, yeah. So, I'm taking that as a win. I know you've sort of said that, you know, you haven't lost the last five times. But the gap between how high yours have and how low mine have been has been an absolute chasm. So, I've done well considering. So, I think people are voting for the better argument. It was the gif, and I chose the gif as well. I was like, I've got to throw Marty a bone here. He's not going to get his joke through the phone. It's like, see me. So we got, I think, two emails during the week saying, yes, you have done Big Bang Bar before. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to have to go through a whole list of all the previous episodes and find the point. And I was like, yeah, just look at your Facebook page with the poll, and you can get a list in like two minutes. Like, ah, you just saved me. And it gave the list as well. So are we ready for the next Flam the Top 100, Marty? Yes, let's do it. Please generate a number from zero to a hundred. Sure. Twelve. Ooh, I'll take that. What? Star Trek. Oh, yeah. Yes. No. The reason why I'm more excited because I know how much you love that game. I love that game. Oh, my God. Good luck arguing against that, Marty. Yeah. Okay. Please generate a number from 0 to 100. All right. 54. Guns N' Roses. You'd love G&R, Marty. You just played it the other day. I actually do love Guns N' Roses. I do, however, feel that this freaking game is entirely rigged. Okay, well, if you really want to, you can generate the numbers on your phone I'm going to do that next time I'm happy for this to stand, but it just so happens that you happen to get Star Trek When you know it's my favourite game of all time I hate that game Three, three it up, go, do it No, come on No I refuse to go on, Matty, come on I don't want to win six times in a row, I want to lose, come on No, no, no, I'm happy to go, let's do this You're going for the pity vote now, Marty. Absolutely. Are you ready, Marty? Yep. Star Trek, Steve Ritchie's masterpiece. You put this next to Spider-Man like I have, people say it's the same layout. No, Star Trek is better. I've owned Spider-Man twice and I've moved Spider-Man out of my collection twice. The flow on this machine is amazing. Starting a 30-second mode and finishing it with a nine-way combo makes me feel like the king, okay? Steve Ritchie's not the king. You are when you do that nine-way combo. You can do a six-way for a silver, a three-way for a bronze medal. There's three layers of modes, 18 modes, awesome multi-balls. Star Trek. Okay. Not a bad start. Yeah. Go for it, money. Let me know when you're ready. Okay. Almost there. Just loading up some flyers. Yep. Getting the flyers ready. Okay. You ready? Ready, set, go. Here we go. So Guns N' Roses is by far the best data race game that was ever made. Wide body that really works. It's got the GNR ramps, which somebody only noticed the other day for the first time. Anyway, that's crazy. Really good rule set. Love the multiball. Love the modes that you can lock in by using the trigger. It's fantastic. It's got magnets under the play field. Fantastic art. Really good flow to this game as well. Some nice tight shots which reward great players. It's a fantastic game. What do you mean by the GNR ramps? The GNR, is it like in the shape of a G and N and R? Yes. Are you going to look it up for the first time? Well, no, I don't really care. It's a crappy game, so I'm not going to look it up. I'll look it up after. I'll look it up after. All right. I'm not even going to bag GNR. I'm just going to keep on talking about it. You know you've got a winner when you don't need to bag the other game. Okay. Star Trek. The Alley. Beautiful machine. A real alley. The lasers that shoot out the sides, the little thingies that stick out on the head box. It was the last alley, I guess, before Iron Maiden came out. The warp ramp. Let's talk about that. The single most satisfying, repeatable shot in pinball. You cannot get a shot better than that because it goes up. The lights chase it beautifully. The fucking flashes give you an epileptic fit. And then the ball drops down off the ramp and you can hit it again. and the call-outs are amazing. That's a hard call. Maybe five minutes to talk about how good this machine is. All right, Marty. You ready to go for your... Hey, I want you to talk about how much Star Trek sucks. I'm going to. Yeah? Okay. Go for it. Ready. First of all, the artwork sucks. It had the most amount of backlash that Stern has ever had, well, up until Game of Thrones, about the art. It's just terrible. And yes, the ramps are there, but they're a little bit samey. and that warp ramp, what do you get when you get 9.9 warps? An adder ball that does absolutely nothing. And how about those modes? Have you been to Enterprise and Mok'Rhyme? Have you been to 5U Mission? No, nobody has. It's too fucking hard. Ruined the game. Like you're acting like the deeper rule sets have ruined the game. Well, it's the carrot in money. I'm looking at this GNR picture that you sent me, Marty. I can see the G I can see the R where's the N? I don't know up your ass is it is it where's the N? there's no N it's guns roses guns in roses yeah okay um but had you not noticed the G and the R ramps before? no I just remember someone telling me that it's impossible to find repro versions of the G the yellow ramp anyway um you're gonna lose money but I'll give you a good gift. There's going to be plenty of good Guns N' Roses gifts. There'll be some good Star Trek ones as well. But Star Trek, as if you don't... Yeah, fucking bullshit. Right, right. Well, how many times have you been to Enterprise Amok? Because that's not even the final wizard mode. That's just the middle. I guarantee... How many times? Zero. Right. But I guarantee that if I put everything back to normal, I would get there in one session because when I was when I was fucking around with my thing, I took the outpost out I went crazy with the settings and I was pulling 300 million games so if I can do that with no extra balls then, Star Trek is essentially a 5 ball game if you have a decent enough game you'll get enough warp ramps to get the extra ball and you should be able to finish the second level vengeance whatever, right? Sure. So it's a five ball game and I think I can get there. Okay. So how long have you had the game now? Two years. And how many times have you been to Enterprise Amok? TNA has made me a considerably better player. How many times have you thought to yourself I am going to get to five year mission this time? Zero. Right. It's impossible. It's not impossible. Keith Elwin didn't fucking half an hour on his own. Well, he is superhuman. We love you, Keith. Anyway, it's a carrot. It's a carrot dangling in front of you. Can you imagine if, like, we go to Keith P. Johnson's house, once in a while we have that beautiful game and everything aligns. Can you imagine if, like, you know, during ball one, you get to the end of whatever pinball machine you're playing? You want it to be, like, lined up perfectly, that it's so deep that you kind of, like, just get there, right? On your last ball. On your last ball. But you and I, neither of us have ever been to Enterprise Amok, so that's not even close to getting to the final round. Okay, how about this? After my next tournament, I'm going to put everything back to factory default. Yep. I'm going to lower it back down to 6.5 degrees. Yep. Because that was the final thing. I was going to talk about this in the whole This Week in Pimple thing, but the final thing that I needed to do to make the Pimple Machine harder was increase the pitch, because I forgot to do it. It was at a more shallow pitch due to our head-to-head battle thing. I forgot to ever raise it back up. At 6.5, the machine plays like a fucking dream. Like, you just hit. You hit the right ball a bit, and then when the ball comes to left flipper, I can hit that right ramp, like, 90% of the time, just perfectly. I don't know. It plays like butter. But I will tell you this. You know how there's a combo champ? Remember we compared combos, and we both had the same amount, like, yeah? Dialed in was significantly higher. Like, my combo champ on Dialed In was like 130, 140. And it almost doesn't make sense. You're like, oh, you know, there's more flow in a Steve Richard game. No, Dialed In, like, doubled the amount of combos on that game. Anyway, moving on. That'll be up in 24 hours on our Facebook page. You can vote for who had the best arguments and just award me six weeks in a row. Or whoever's got the better gift. And so, you know, I felt that I should have had more votes last week because you said Daylex. So, guys, you've just got to give me this. He can't have six weeks in a row. Let's see how many people listen to the actual podcast. Funny. So, shall we continue with This Week in Pinball? Or shall we head to our Pirates competition? Let's do This Week in Pinball. sometimes I don't know if it's that was meant to be a segue but sure yeah sure we had it nailed up until this moment smooth as butter okay this week in pinball not sponsored by dev what did you get up to Marty well did you see the Iron Maiden limited edition stream this week was that last week or this week I can't remember I'm losing track of time yes I saw a little bit of it yes It looks spectacular. Does it look that much more spectacular than the Pro? Yeah, I think it does. And I guess what I kind of like about it is, I mean, the lighting adds more of an effect to the playfield. It kind of just makes it a little bit more special. The two things I liked, obviously, it's now got that Newton ball that rises mechanism, which locks via the left ramp. And it's actually got the center ramp up to that bullseye that now lifts up. and everyone said it's now much easier to be able to start a mode via that. So, yeah, I like what I see. I really like what I see. Yeah, we still haven't seen the premium. I think we're going to see that sometime this week. So by the time you listen to this podcast, it might already be out there. I think everyone's going to win no matter what. As I said, people are going to complain about this title no matter what because of the theme and because of this and because of that. But it just seems like it's one of Stern's best. And I think I've mentioned before, it looks great without any real crazy toys and necks. Yep, that's right. And it just proves that, I don't know, it's like, what is pinball? Pinball to me I mean I remember someone saying to me Metallica their best game ever because it that one game where everything aligned and they got amazing art amazing code and amazing Was it you Yeah, yeah. I think someone else said it as well. And amazing toys. And he went on about the hammer and Sparky and the snake. And, I mean, I've disabled my cotton lock on Metallica for the competition. And I unplugged the magnet as well because there's a bug in the code where even if you disable the magnet, it still powers up. Anyway, I unplug the magnet, and I don't know if I want to turn it back on, because the game is almost, like, better when it's just, like, it's free-flowing and it's a virtual lock. I know I've probably disabled the snake, but I'll just kind of leave it as it is. I don't know. It's an interesting shift into maybe a new era of pinball where there's going to be less toys and less things that slow down the ball, because Keith Elwin obviously isn't a fan of that. I don't think Keith Elwin's going to have a Rescue 911 helicopter that's going to grab the ball slowly and move it up there. I think that's going to be his style. Jersey Jack, very neck and toy happy, right? Yep. Do, ah, what do collectors want? Collectors probably want those toys, right? Yeah, I think they do. And again, you know, Iron Maiden is no exception. There's two toys in particular that I saw, and I'm assuming they're not on the pro, and they were just really finely detailed toys. They actually look great rather than it being a matchbox car that's just been stuck on the playfield. I don't mean toys like figurines. I mean toys like things that interact with the ball. Sorry, I should be saying that, not toys. Mechs that interact with the ball, right? I think what we want is mech toys or whatever they are that do something different, I guess. So, I mean, you hear people are sick of bash toys, right? Yeah. So that's not inventive at all. That's just you've got either a magnet underneath it or something that, you know, has a toy above it. But, you know, what was the last really inventive toy? I mean, you've got obviously the toy box in Aerosmith, but that was done with Indiana Jones, even though it didn't have the ball that flipped over, but that was in NBA. So there's not necessarily anything new. What's a new toy? I mean, Jersey, Wizard of Oz has a bunch of them, but the ball doesn't really interact with them. Like, you have the spinning house, which is super cool, but the ball just goes around the house, kind of like you're the tornado kind of thing. The monkey that grabs the ball. I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff, but... And it's called it... Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. The more I play pinball, the more I'm like, yeah, you don't really need these crazy things that... For me, it's mainly slowing down the ball. Yeah. Yep. I don't know. Maybe the rotisserie. Even though I know it's a bit dodgy, but the rotisserie on Batman 66, that's relatively inventive. Yeah. Inventive, but not as fun as what I thought it was going to be. I don't know. The ones that I like the most are the Medieval Madness Castle. I think that's an amazing all-in-one mech. And the Doctor Who, whatever it's called, Time Sander. Yeah, I just think that's an amazing, very inventive kind of three-level play field. So, yeah, I guess we'll see where... Because, you know, last year was all about, you know, original themes are back. Is this another paradigm shift into games that are amazing but they don't have to be amazing because they have that one mech that grabs the ball. Right, Angelus guys, tell us what your favourite mech was or is or what you'd like to see. Give them some ideas. Money. I was sitting indoors this week watching Cobra Kai. I watched five hours straight on YouTube and you were at a pinball competition. I was. I was at Argonauts. I'm back in the groove with my tournaments this year. It's been a while but I'm now back And guess what, Ryan? I came first. I did. Yeah? I came first. Good job. Of the people that had a chance of winning. Okay. This should be the question after every segment on competitions. Hey, did Jordan Credaway come? Yeah. Okay. So he lost. So then who came second? Really? Yeah, who came second? We had a joke about it because I came second and someone said, oh, well, that's practically a win. I said, it's a win. When Jordan's here, I'll consider that a win. But, again, and we talked about this as well, in that it wasn't like he was a runaway. He was just consistently better than everybody marginally on each of the machines, if that makes sense. The good news is that Jordan is not coming to my competition. He wasn't there at the first one. It's just Jordan's free zone. Yeah, he's got enough points for him. What are you talking about? There's more... Oh, he's going for the Cooley Classic. Yeah. Well, there's more points in my one than the other tournaments in Melbourne, but as long as you win money and you don't come fourth... But look, what I did like about this was it was a good collection of machines. So if I can try and remember them, you had Medieval Madness remake, there was a Dialed In, There was Indy 500 There was Shadow Playboy Jackpot Star Trek Next Generation And Star Trek Next Gen And they were all in really good conditions So they actually played well And that's all I ask Yeah We'll just dig at my Metallica thing I fixed it, Marty I fixed the coin Yeah, it's fixed It wasn't a dig at your Metallica thing But thank you for bringing that up and reminded me that it sucked. Well, it's now fixed, and the machines are still hard as all hell. Yeah, I like them like that. I enjoy seeing your rage. So, sorry, that was another funny thing about Mrs. Pym, which is like, no one warned me that playing in tournaments I used to wait a really long time. Yep, been there, done that. That's right. That's why my games are hard as fuck. Anything else you did, Marty, this week? No, that's it, pinball-wise. Cool. So I mentioned already how I fixed Star Trek and made it super hard. Yep. Lord of the Rings. I started playing that for the first time in a while. I just totally forgot how good that game was. I know you're a bit fuzzy on the rules of Lord of the Rings, Marty. I'm really fuzzy. Okay. There's, on the default settings, two of the multiples are way too easy. One is the Fellowship of the Ring where you have to collect all the dudes to start a multiple. All you do is hit every shot in the game once, and you've got it. And one of them is hitting the pop bumpers a certain amount of time. Sure. I've now turned that to hard, so you have to hit them in order, and that kind of slows down the progress of that. Okay. Not too hard. The other one is the two towers multiball, and that is literally just lighting the keep letters, right, inlanes and outlanes, and then shooting the right ramp. And you can stack those kind of – you stack the locks kind of thing so you have them all lit, so you can just shoot the ramp three times. and basically you can just kind of like just backhand that ramp, trap it up, backhand the ramp. I've now got it set on the very, very hard setting so if you accidentally roll over a letter that is lit, it'll unlight it and you can't say it's lost. So the hardest I can possibly kind of do and that makes it very even between the three multiballs. So that's mainly what I've done to that. I've taken the outpost out as well because the game does play pretty long but with those settings, I think that's good enough for the skill level that we're dealing with. Yeah, there's some other stuff that I want to do, but I don't want to bastardize the game too much, like Star Trek. Here's a funny story. How urgent would you be if you've got a brand new machine, Marty, to get mirror blades? Would you wait overnight to get them? This guy was so desperate to get his mirror blades, he rang me up and he sent an Uber. He's like, can I get... So this Uber driver rocked up to my house, and he was like, oh, hi, you, you know, let's make up a fake name. Are you Damien? I'm like, no, no, no, you know, these are mirror blades for Damien. Can I just put them in the backseat of your car? And he's like, what are mirror blades? I'm like, it's just a package. He goes, it's a package. You go to Damien's house. And he's like, okay. So I just put the, yeah, he paid, like, I don't know how much the trip was, but he was about 30 minutes away, and he paid an Uber to come pick up the mirror blades. Well, movies aren't that expensive, really. True. I mean, it depends on what price you put on your time. But, yeah, I found that pretty funny. I got a new machine, Marty, in my house. Did you? Yeah. Are you going to act super surprised? Am I? Because I don't know this game is Big Bug Hunter. So TNA finally made its way to its rightful owner, which is Nima. And, funny enough, he has it for sale. So if you want a TNA, he has it for sale. It's an amazing TNA with no issues and only a couple hundred plays, or probably less than a couple hundred. Yes, my friend rang me up and said, would you like to house my big bug hunter? I don't have any room. I'm probably going to sell it next. Do you want it before I sell it? I said, a free pinball machine? Yes, please. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and people warned me that this is... I know... ah jeez what was the conversation I had with someone I said hey I'm getting a new machine guess what it is and he's like well give me some hints I said it's a it's a stern that people consider as a turd and then he just goes ahead and mentions like so many games like Transformers no Avatar no Avengers no CSI 24 Sharky Shootout like this and I'm like holy shit there's a lot of a lot of games that are considered a turd I'm like I'm just going to tell you it's a big bug hunter. Anyway, I set my expectations as low as they could go, and I was physically upset after playing the machine. Like, I actually felt, like, distressed. I was just like, this machine fucking sucks. Like, there's no redeeming features. You know, the next day, I started to learn the rules a bit more, and believe it or not, I'm actually starting to, I can't believe I'm fucking saying this, I'm actually starting to like this game because it's, that's the only thing I can say nice about it, it's unique, right? There's no other game that's like this. If you want a Steve Ritchie game next to another Steve Ritchie game, the shots feel the same. This is completely different. One thing I absolutely hate about it is the pop bumper area. I'm not sure how much you know about it, Marty, but it's kind of like Avatar and Walking Dead where the ball gets in there and it only has one little tiny exit. it. And I'm just like, get out of there, man. It's a John Ball thing. He likes to make very tight exits to certain pop-up areas. I don't know enough about it yet, but the call-outs are horrendous. I know you don't like the theme, and a lot of people don't like the theme because it's a bit yokey. So look, I was sort of thinking about it today, because I know you sent me some messages through the week saying how much you absolutely hate it and thought it was terrible. I've sort of said that that era of Sterns, where they had a relatively simple... It was a simple layout and simple rules. I kind of like that, because at least I know the entire rule set at any particular time, and I don't have to worry about multipliers and stacking things and combining and whatnot. Well, hey, do you know the software on this game, Miley? Because I'm trying to figure it out, and it's not... I can't figure out the whole addable thing. Like, I'm in a multiball, and then sometimes it's just two balls and then I hit like one or two shots and I don't know what I'm hitting and all of a sudden it's just four balls are out and then I play it the next time. I think you've got to hit the bird shot, which is the kickback. Okay, so the bird shot is the one in the middle. The kickback is the ram. Are you talking about the ram? Or the bird? I can't remember which one. Maybe the one... It's been a while since I've played it, but the one that actually holds the ball, like, you know... Okay, that's the bird. I think it's one of those. You've got to hit it a couple of times to get edible. Okay. But what I was going to say was... Yeah, I don't know what I'm doing. Right. So I was trying to do a bit of... And I've sent you a picture showing you where it sits as far as the history of CERN machines and also its ranking. This is from IPDB. So it's got a ranking of 6.8, which is not great. It is better than Avengers, which got a 6.5, right? Yeah. It's also better than CSI, which gets a 6.7. It's about the same as 24. But Iron Man is a 7.9, right? And Avatar is a 7.4, which is respectable. So what is it about these particular games of the time that makes them good versus shit? Is it layout or is it rules or is it theme? I think the amazing thing about Big Bug Hunter is that it is shit across everything equally. It's got shit art. It's got a shit theme. It's got fucking horrible call-outs. The layout is just weird. It's got one ramp only. The buck's kind of fun. The toy, I agree with Nick Lane there. It's fun. Nick Lane from Buffalo Pinball loves this game, and I don't know what he's smoking, but I want some of it. Really? Yes, I really do like this game a lot. Alright, we'll do a swap, okay? I'll take your Iron Maiden Oh, that is such an even swap There'll be some money, there'll be some money your way, okay? No, but look, my point is that these games are fairly polarising There are people like myself and Nick Lane I also think Kevin likes it as well That likes Pickpock Hunter And, you know, the game that came out after it, Avatar I really like Avatar And it's not, it's not a great layout And it's only got one ramp And blah, blah, blah But there's something about it that I find a little bit charming because of its simplistic nature. And, you know, Iron Man came out at the same time. And when it came out, everyone said it was really simple and it was really, you know, basic, and it was like an EM. And then all of a sudden it came good again. Here's the thing, though. I think, well, one, it had the theme, obviously, to kind of save it. But when you have a really simple layout like Iron Man, you know, orbit, orbit, bash toy in the middle, shut off the middle, and then two ramps, you can build a good rule set around that, right? Whereas when you have a game like Big Buck Hunter, yes, it's unique, but with its uniqueness, you know, it's a very sloppy kind of design. Like, for example, it's really satisfying hitting an orbit, especially when it has a spinner. The spinner sits behind the buck. You can't hit the spinner unless you get the buck to move first. So you hardly ever hit the spinner. And I think all the spinner does, and I might be wrong, right, is it lights the critter. And if you have critter lit, when you drain down the outlay, it's like, oh, you got a critter. And if you don't hit it, it's like, oh, you shot a doe. Like, all right, I don't know what that means, but it's 200 points. And it comes from the era of Stern having the worst skill shots where you cannot get the balls of that hurt all the way around. A post comes up, the ball goes into the pop, just like Iron Man, and you have to line up the light, and it gives you 250,000 points. Congratulations. Yeah. I don't know. So, do you know what? I'm looking at the list now, right, and I'm seeing what's done well and what hasn't, right? So, of that era, if we go back, let's say, five or six machines, Batman gets an eight. So, thumbs up. CSI 6.7. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why are you going off IPDB and not Inside? Well, because this is just where I happened to get these so I could get the data of them. But I guess what I'm sort of thinking about with those ones is, and the reason why Iron Man probably stands out amongst all of those, is it's actually a really good tournament game. Okay. And if you think about those games around, it's a big buck hunter. People don't like it in tournaments. Avatar, people don't like it in tournaments. Tron, people like it in tournaments. You know what I mean? I think that's probably the difference. That's what makes it have last ability is that the tournament scene is where you get a lot of opinion, I guess. I always say that I kind of like games that don't really have crazy multipliers and just one double scoring and that's enough. Maybe I should take that statement back because this game has the most boring scoring opportunities. like everything is the fucking same. Like you're in one multiball, jackpots are like about 300,000. You're in like five other multiballs and every single multiball kind of has the same base value. It's just like, how do I blow things up? How do I get things moving? It's just like, it's just so linear in its scoring. It just makes it a little bit more interesting than that. Anyway, it's an old game. I don't think Stern cares. I'm complaining about a game that came out eight years ago. They got Iron Maiden now. They don't give a shit. I'm just, yeah. And as I said, I'm enjoying it. It's going to be in the competition. It is pretty fucking brutal as it is. I'm going to make it even more brutal, just so people really fucking hate the game. And that left outline, just magnets. So I guess we'll be streaming it sometime soon for fun as well. Yeah, for sure. I don't know how long I'm going to keep it, but he said he's in a rush, and it's filling up an empty spot. So I guess it comes down to, I guess, me taking Game of Thrones out of here. It will have to be awesome. I'm buying my freaking Hobbit. Anyway, let's not go there. One of them. Okay. That's it. Shall we have our one piece of mail for the week? We're going to skip all the mail. You saw it last week. Okay. One piece of mail. My first hate mail. Yeah. Ryan gets his first bit of hate mail, everybody. You ready for it? Shall I read it out? Yeah, you can read it. Dear Ryan, you smell love, Hannah. Oh, God. I just, like, you can't end a bit of hate mail with love, Hannah. I know. And I was like, is this Hannah Hatch? Is this, no, it's not. It's just Hannah. And P.S., I hope this counts as hate mail. P.P.S., my husband Clarkie just subjected me. I love the word subjected. Me to many, many hours of your podcast on our trip from Horsham to Canberra. back again. You guys are funny, but your interviews are boring. PPPS, is there a support group for Pimble Wives? Yes, there is a support group. Mrs. Pinn has started it. It's called 1-800-PIN-SANITY. It just doesn't exist yet. It doesn't exist yet, but our interviews, I was thinking about it on the weekend and I was just like, yeah, if you're into Pimble, I was like, I don't want to sound like I'm up myself, but it was like one of the most interesting things I've heard on a podcast, and we just had a big... For me, it was. I know it was. Okay. Someone came to me during the week and said, it sounded like you had sort of really tuned out, and I went, yeah, I had. Because when Ryan started going on about code, I was like, you know what? I'm just going to let him go with it and go into a little code coma. You know, I would have liked to have talked about tournaments more. But he doesn't play them anymore. Well, I know. Okay, we'll talk to Josh. We can get him on the show. I understand that. And even I, after listening to the interview with him after, just found it incredibly fascinating. I really did. He's just very articulate, can explain himself very well. It's how open he was. That's exactly right. And I just love it. We were, I don't know how you'd put this, but we were very direct with him. We were saying, well, hang on, think about it this way. And he's like, yeah, you know what, great question, and this is my thoughts. And you kind of go, okay, thank you for telling us your thoughts. That's great. Yeah. When we started the podcast, I had maybe like, if you asked me to name three people that you would like to interview, like your dream kind of interviews, you know, Keith would be one of them and the two other ones we haven't interviewed yet. But after I interviewed Keith, I kind of realized that those two other ones, they wouldn't be as good because even though they kind of have similar positions or whatnot, they wouldn't be able to talk the way that Keith talks or they don't talk the way that Keith talks. So maybe that's why that interview did so well and why it's our kind of number one episode already after one week. So, but yeah, I understand that interviews can be boring even to people that are into pinball, but if you're not into pinball, like that interview is just like, you'd rather hear like, you know, waves crashing or something. It just makes sense, right? I had someone in my car during the week and that was on and they actually heard a little bit of before I got to change it to music and they literally turned to me and said, do you honestly listen to that shit? And I said, listen to it. I'm on it. I create this shit. Oh no. Funny. Well, we got, I mean, one quick one that I want to go through. We got a email from Ryan Wagner, with another hate mail during the week, but it was horrible. Some people just try to be mean and they just can't. He's too much of a nice guy. This is Ryan from Comet Pinball. But yeah, he talks about the Trash Talk Invitational and Shall We Go Too Muddy? Our Pirates Competition. Yes. Was that Ryan's email? You didn't even really go into the detail of it. Well, I don't know. You left it out. I don't know. Oh, sorry. The Screaming Children thing. Yes, I want to say this. I want to retract what I said about the screaming child thing. And, you know, Ryan mentioned this. The screaming child thing from the Alice Cooper Nightmare Castle, for some reason in my head, and it's still annoying, I still don't like the sound, but I kind of worked it up in my mind and kind of made it a lot worse than it actually was. And I didn't hear it for a while because I'm not going to go out and seek that out. And then when you listen to the podcast and you played it at the end, I was like, huh, that kind of more sounds like a kid on a roller coaster ride or something. I was like, huh. Yeah, I went into this whole rant about saying it's the worst sound in pinball. I'm sorry. It wasn't that bad. I just, you know, I didn't do it on purpose to make a big deal out of it. All right. It's just what's in my head. Anyway. Good publicity, right? Well, hey, that bitch about that got Keith P. Johnson to message us and talk about something else, and that's how we got him on the show. There you go. Well done. All right, the Pirates competition. The rules were send us a 10-second or less clip about being a pirate or in your best pirate voice, and we'll play it on the show. We will choose our favourite each, and basically we'll put it down to a Facebook vote, and the winner will win a signed by Captain Jersey Jack Pirates of the Caribbean translight. We got a decent amount of entries. I think we have six or so here. Again, effort Just through the roof So the quality that came through Yet again on this Has been absolutely phenomenal People have just gone to An amazing effort Just to make us laugh And probably make themselves laugh as well So we are going to play them all, Ryan Here we go Pirate mighty here, har Walk and play, Captain Price Har, your days are done and I'll be shooting a bolster in the cannon. We've got this one, which is a very smart one. It took me a while to guess. Yar! We're fishing in of the creature the right in which I never seen before. A toy tanic struggle. Man and beast. Why not the creature in you? Into nothing. Yar! All right, the joke there, if you missed it, was internet thing, right? Which is a joke about internet thing, which is we laugh about a lot, the Pirates of the Caribbean stews that was in thing. It's a bit of an in-joke, that one. It's an in-joke, okay. It's hilarious. Well done, Stacey. Here's another one. Arr, I love head-to-head pinball, yes. Cali-a-wagon, roof sacks, and I'm gagging for JGP Translate. Arr. Yar, mates, we found the treasure down under. Yar, there's a treasure chest full of Tim Tams. Arr, put those Tim Tams in me roostack. He's making me recognize by his voices. Here's another one. You know why Pirates of the Caribbean Tim Borgs are the best? Because they just arrr. I love it. I love its simplicity. All right. We have the next one. A pirate called Andrew the Shyster was once the world's new pinmeister, fell hard on his ass in a world under glass, escaping his hydrophile even faster. Our geometry. I love that one It was great and then Arr, geometry And last but not least Arr, matey Nothing like talking to the virus Come over, you thieving Australians My kind of crooks It's Captain Bud BUDGY SMUGGLER! And I heard you whining about the lack of spinning dicks on the pirates again. Oh frickity hoo! You wanna spin? Come here and rotate on my cannon! There she blows! I don't want your fleeting tram's light. You ripped it, Brian C., you son of a bitch! Let the motherland never take the treasure! And fuck off! Oh, God. Oh, God. Come faith on this cannon, Marley. What could that possibly mean, Marley? Honestly, best competition results ever. Those last two, amazing. So how are we going to do this, Marley? Do you want to pick your favourite, and then I'll pick my favourite? My favourite is the last one. The last one. Bud G Smuggler. He did say in his little rant, he doesn't want the translate. You're empty, Ryan C. I know. Well, if he doesn't want it, it has to go to someone else. And I would... Will you go with which one you want? Well, my favourite one, besides that one, is the round... Geometry. Geometry. Andrew, it's been in my head the entire week. There once was a pirate called Andrew Saystar. Well, that's my other favourite. Well, okay. Well, we've got to choose because the other one with, you know, the Tenen and Budgie smuggler, he did email us and say that he already has a Pirates of the Caribbean trans light and he just wanted to enter for fun and to crush his competition or her competition. We don't want to say if it's a boy or a girl. It's anonymous. So we've got to pick another one. Now, we did say, Marty, that it has to be limited to 10 seconds. That did happen. Yeah, everyone pretty much ignored that. So I don't know. I feel like we have to give the second position to someone that actually followed the rules and done it in under 10 seconds, right? Yeah. I don't know. So do we put that one in? Yeah, let's do that one. Okay. so gag him for the trans light or Andrew the shyster we will put that poll up maybe on Wednesday you guys get to vote who gets the trans light and next time I don't know how to do rules we gave rules this time everyone ignored them we didn't give rules last time and we got fucking like 8,000 word essays and news articles and we couldn't read them out so I don't know how to run a competition Marty it doesn't matter As long as we have fun and you make us laugh, that's all we care about. Cool. All right. Is that it? Are we done? Are we done, Marty? Can I tell everyone where to find us? You can. It's time for another Head to Head Pimble. I'm your host, Martin and Ryan C. You can find our group on Facebook. We're also on Twitter at H2H Pimble. Email us at headtoheadpimble at gmail.com. And please subscribe on either iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Play. There we go. That was alright. Yeah, that was awesome. You can never have too much Teolos. Do you like my voice? That was me. That was me. That was great. Awesome. Alright, thanks everybody. See ya. Bye.