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Ep 27: Scott's Return and Josh's Epistle

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 15m·held·Feb 6, 2020
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Pinball industry analysis: new game teasers, playfield durability debates, and manufacturer competition.

Summary

Scott Larson returns to discuss his charitable medical work in Guatemala, followed by extensive pinball industry discussion including Joe Kaminkow teased Harry Potter and Back to the Future projects, analysis of Jurassic Park design philosophy and playfield dimpling concerns, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IP history and hype, Spooky Pinball's Rick and Morty gameplay reveal, and emerging playfield material innovations from Haggis Pinball and others challenging Stern's traditional approach.

Key Claims

  • Joe Kaminkow teased Harry Potter pinball as coming, potentially more expensive than Beatles

    medium confidence · Host Josh discussing Joe Kaminkow interview recap from The Super Awesome Pinball Show; notes Jeff Patterson 'freaking out' over Harry Potter mention; uncertain if Kamikow was gauging interest or confirming

  • Back to the Future pinball is being teased by Stern/Joe Kaminkow

    medium confidence · Host mentions 'they tease too' Back to the Future; context suggests Joe Kaminkow interview as source; not officially confirmed

  • Keith Jurassic Park features a 'speedrun' mode where players can beeline to the helipad to record fastest times

    high confidence · Host describing current beta code: 'you can either save people or just beeline it for the helipad and get out of there. And it actually records the fastest time'

  • Jurassic Park playfield has dimpling issues that are concerning but expected to even out over time

    high confidence · Host: 'the ball gets a lot more airborne on that game'; mentions Steve Ritchie said 'they all dimple. They've always all dimpled. It will all even out. It's not a big deal.'

  • Haggis Pinball demonstrated polycarbonate/laminate playfield material that withstands sledgehammer impact

    high confidence · Host describes video: 'they took three different hammers and then a freaking sledge hammer to the thing' and 'you could take the ball and drop it from like three feet off the playfield'

  • Spooky Pinball and Morty includes free topper with purchase and adult mode option

    high confidence · Host: 'The topper... It came for free for supporting them. Like you don't see any other companies out there doing that.'

  • Scott Larson has completed four trips to Guatemala performing cleft lip/palate surgeries through the Shalom Foundation

    high confidence · Scott: 'This is my fourth trip down, and we go every year, and I will do it as long as they keep doing it'

  • Ninja Turtles will feature artwork by Zombie Yeti

Notable Quotes

  • “You know, I love making a game. You know, I'm not going to be as good as Brian Eddy or that kid that made Jurassic Park or the Steve Ritchie.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~09:00 — Joe Kamikow calling Keith Elwin 'that kid' becomes running joke; reveals Kamikow's humility about design vs. business strengths

  • “I love making a game... I also like that kid who made Atomic Meltdown or whatever that game was.”

    Joe Kaminkow @ ~09:30 — Kamikow referring to Scott Denise's Atomic Meltdown; establishes both Keith Elwin and Scott Denise as 'the kids' in industry

  • “They all dimple. They've always all dimpled. It will all even out. It's not a big deal.”

    Steve Ritchie @ ~22:00 — Steve Ritchie defending Stern's playfield dimpling as normal wear; influences host's confidence in Jurassic Park quality

  • “If you've not played a Jurassic Park, I don't know where you've been living. If you've been under a rock, then it's time to get out.”

    Josh (host) @ ~18:00 — Enthusiastic endorsement of Jurassic Park gameplay and Keith Elwin's design despite quality concerns

  • “It actually talked about the whole evolution of that where that broke up... one guy took off. The other guy bought him out and then ended up selling that to Nickelodeon for $80 million.”

    Scott Larson @ ~40:00 — Context for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IP history and commercial success; explains franchise longevity

  • “there's more than one way to skin a cat why can't we invest in some different technology and see what's going on”

    Scott Larson @ ~57:00 — Defending innovation in playfield materials against Stern/JJP's traditional approach; questions why alternatives exist if traditional method is superior

  • “Most pinball is actually geared toward me, my demographic. So I'm glad they're branching out.”

    Scott Larson @ ~50:00 — Acknowledges Spooky Rick and Morty targets different audience; reflects manufacturer diversification strategy

Entities

Scott LarsonpersonJoshpersonKeith ElwinpersonJoe KaminkowpersonSteve RitchiepersonScott Deniseperson

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Joe Kamikow teased Harry Potter pinball as upcoming Stern title, allegedly more expensive than Beatles

    medium · Josh referencing Joe Kamikow interview recap: 'he said that was going to be more expensive than the Beatles, which, cool, I think it'll sell more than 1964'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Back to the Future pinball teased as potential Stern project focusing on original 1985 film only

    medium · Josh: 'they tease too, I don't know if you read this, but back to the future, does that, does that tickle your fancy?'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Keith Elwin implemented speedrun mode in Jurassic Park that records fastest completion times by beelineing to helipad

    high · Josh: 'you can either save people or just beeline it for the helipad and get out of there. And it actually records the fastest time. I love these concepts'

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern Jurassic Park Premium playfield experiencing dimpling issues; community concerns about durability and manufacturing quality vs competitors

    high · Josh: 'the ball gets a lot more airborne on that game' and 'there's got to be a point where the play field has to become a little bit more dent-proof'; compares unfavorably to CGC Monster Bash and Attack from Mars

  • ?

    design_innovation: Haggis Pinball demonstrated polycarbonate/laminate sandwich playfield material withstanding sledgehammer impact; represents alternative to traditional wood playfields

    high · Scott: 'Haggis Pinball... they took three different hammers and then a freaking sledge hammer to the thing... you could take the ball and drop it from like three feet off the playfield'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.226

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. It is episode 27. My co-captain today is... Scott Larson. Dude, it's so good to have you back. Thanks, man. I feel like I've been out of the country for a while. You have been. You've got to tell us. Because last time we had Martin on, I told everyone that you're a superhero contributing your awesome superpowers down there. You've got to tell us what it was like. You know, it's amazing. I feel very lucky that so many people, they want to do something, something for the community or something for some sort of charitable work. And sadly, so many of us get so jaded when you see all these charities out there where they do an expose on it. And you find out, you know, one cent of your dollar goes toward toward actually doing something. And most of it's for overhead or publicity or or PR. And in many ways, we get very jaded with the charitable community. And I those questions are good to ask. You have to ask those questions because there are unscrupulous people out there who will set up charities and leverage the good faith of people for their benefit. Thankfully, my job is one that is something that I can do.
1:32
And so the organization that I work with, it's a local organization here in Utah, and we go down to Guatemala and we fix cleft lips and cleft palates. And everybody donates their time. Everybody pays their own way. And all the money that we actually raise, it goes toward the surgeries. It goes toward the supplies that we need to buy and all that. And so we don't make any money off it. Everything is volunteer time. We pay our own way. And the money that we take down is directly given to facilitate these surgeries. And I'm very lucky that my job allows me to do this type of thing. And I was also lucky to find the right organization. And hopefully I'll be doing it for years and years. But it's an amazing feeling that I'm not sure who gets more out of it is the team who goes down or the kids, because it's this amazing fulfillment that you are doing something because you just want to give back somehow. And I feel, again, lucky that my talents, my skill set is being able to be used in this way. So that's what I did, and I've been doing it. This is my fourth trip down, and we go every year, and I will do it as long as they keep doing it. That is so totally awesome. I know we do this just for fun, the pinball podcast and whatnot, and we hope to help those in the hobby. You may learn something or whatnot, but what you did down there is truly changing someone's life for the better for the rest of their lives, and it's amazing. I don't know. If you didn't see the pictures, become friends with Scott on Facebook. They're just awesome seeing these children that, what are they, one and two? I think the oldest you said was a year four. We can operate anybody under 18. So the laws allow us to operate under 18. So we can do charitable work for pediatric populations.

medium confidence · Josh: 'I'm just excited that zombie yeti is doing the artwork like i know that the artwork's gonna be fantastic'

Christopher Franchi
person
Stern Pinballcompany
Spooky Pinballcompany
Haggis Pinballcompany
Deep Root Pinballcompany
Jurassic Parkgame
Rick and Morty (SE)game
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtlesgame
Harry Pottergame
Back to the Futuregame
The Beatlesgame
[name withheld pending review]game
Shalom Foundationorganization
Super Awesome Pinball Showcontent
This Week in Pinballcontent
Texas Pinball Festivalevent
Zombie Yetiperson
Jeff Pattersonperson
Damienperson
  • ?

    competitive_signal: Multiple manufacturers (Spooky, Deeper, Haggis) competing on playfield durability innovations as counter to Stern's dimpling issues

    medium · Scott: 'Stern's getting so much slack is we're seeing more and more people come out of the woodwork... Spooky, after the dimpling stuff... woohoo, look at us. Like our playfields don't do that'

  • ?

    product_launch: Spooky Pinball released 15 minutes of Rick and Morty gameplay footage showing center kickout mechanics, adult mode, and free topper

    high · Josh: 'Spooky just showed 15 minutes of gameplay of Rick and Morty, and this game looks fantastic... The topper, absolutely fantastic... It came for free for supporting them'

  • ?

    community_signal: Josh extensively defends Ninja Turtles IP despite franchise quality concerns; argues TMNT has survived worse iterations so pinball version unlikely to disappoint diehards

    medium · Josh: 'if you're not a Ninja Turtle fan, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles have went through so many iterations over the last 30 plus years that it's okay if Stern doesn't hit the mark'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Stern's Jurassic Park focused on original 1985 film only rather than multi-film universe approach; design lesson for Back to the Future and other franchise games

    high · Josh: 'Stern hit on with Jurassic Park. They didn't do Jurassic Park World, Lost World... They said Jurassic Park. That's the game... if you're gonna do back to the future do back to the future don't do back to the future three four'

  • ?

    content_signal: LoserKid Podcast positions itself as 'standard pinball podcast' vs Super Awesome Pinball Show's 'Today Show' higher-energy format

    medium · Scott: 'they've got a great show... it's a little bit more of a today's show for pinball... more lively... vs our standard pinball podcast... two guys who are enthusiasts bouncing ideas back and forth'

  • ?

    community_signal: Scott Larson's four-trip charitable medical mission to Guatemala performing cleft surgeries demonstrates pinball community values beyond collecting/playing

    high · Scott: 'This is my fourth trip down, and we go every year... everything is volunteer time. We pay our own way. And the money that we take down is directly given to facilitate these surgeries'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Harry Potter and Back to the Future teased as major IP acquisitions by Stern through Joe Kamikow; represents significant licensing coups if confirmed

    medium · Josh: 'so many people have gone after the license... I would say that the two most likely people who would be able to get something done would be one Joe Kamikow or two Roger Sharp'

    • 3:39
    So it's, yeah, with the cleft lips and palates, we try to do them as early as we can. Lips you can do within a couple months of being born. Palates, we typically fix the lip first and then do the palate later.
    3:56
    Not all lips have a broken palate. Not all palates have a cleft lip. There's just some overlap on either of them. But it's pretty amazing that this hospital was set up by a concert promoter out of Nashville. It's called the Shalom Foundation. And we go and thankfully we go and we pay to use their facility. But all the money that we pay goes toward the full time people who are there. OK. And and so we we pay them about ten thousand a week. But it's a building there with with people and that's their jobs and everything. And so it's I feel it's very well, well used. It really is. It makes my last couple of weeks look very boring.
    4:43
    Very selfish compared to your two. Well, it's not – because, okay, I do that one week out of 52. Yeah, exactly. So the other 51, I'm doing what everybody else is doing. I have a job. I have a mortgage. I have – we pay for our kids' school. So it's – that is standard life. And you don't need to apologize for that. That's standard life. It's true, yeah. Yeah. And so there are so many ways that you can reach out and it doesn't have to be something like what I just did. There are local places and do your due diligence. Find something, a way of actually being able to give back. And it helps you look beyond yourself. It's so easy to be self-focused and to be jaded. and we'll get into this later, but it's so easy if you just get overwhelmed by social media or even the news cycle. And it doesn't matter which side you're on. If you're the right side, the left side, blue, green, yellow, whatever, you can find battlegrounds.
    5:52
    And if you get sucked into those battlegrounds, you get really entrenched into an overwhelming feeling of sadness. that there's like, are there good people out there? Because sometimes you don't know. So it just, I would encourage anybody to find something to be able to give back. And whether or not it's your church, whether or not it's a volunteer organization, whether or not it's something that you feel passionate about, I would just encourage you to do something and just figure out what to do. because you'll notice your own personal spiritual namaste will be so much better off. Well, they've even proven, they've had scientists look into this, and they say the families and the people that are the happiest are those that serve others.
    6:39
    And it's just, you can teach your children selflessness, and they'll grow up to hopefully promote that in their own lives. I mean, it's just serving others is a fantastic way to make yourself may realize you have it better than what some other people have it and that you can give back more than you think you can. So, yeah, I would even put it in a different perspective is that it's easy to look in comparisons. And we've all done this where we say, oh, you're so lucky to be born X, because if you compare yourself to Y and that is one way of looking at it. I guess the way I look at it is you can be happy and miserable regardless of where you are, socioeconomic status or political status or government status or anything. You can be happy or miserable. And it's – again, this sounds like a cat poster like on Lego Movie where it talks about a tripe thing. But it was like one of those memes that someone shared, and it's like – it's either like an old Indian proverb or a Cherokee proverb. And I don't know. I don't really have a background in it, in that that culture. But it basically said there, you know, there are two animals inside you. And one of them is a one of the care, you know, caring wolf and all that kind of stuff. And one of them is a ravenous wolf and and attacks. And they say, you know, which one succeeds and says the one you feed.
    8:06
    And so I feel that in life it is the one you feed, which which creature inside you are you feeding? because that's really going to dictate what type of person you are. Well, you know, people tuned in for pinball and we just gave them like a life lesson. I know. I know. Sorry. Sorry. This is good. Yeah. Christopher Franchi's. We broke one of Franchi's rules for pinball. So pinball podcast. So have you listened to Super Awesome Pinball Show?
    8:32
    Yeah. So ironically, one of my one of our good friends here, Matt, Matt Shablone, he texted me and he said, at Texas Pinball Festival we need to have the anesthesiology throw down. I actually messaged Christian who's Dr. Pin and Mrs. Pin and I just said, the crazy thing is we texted back and forth for like an hour.
    9:02
    It was pretty amazing, just going back and forth. Then Mrs. Pin chimed in the next day. She was like, man, I was asleep, but you guys were talking all night. So yeah, no, so I did listen and they, they've got a great show. If you haven't checked it out, it's fun. It's, it's a little bit more of a, think of a today's show for pinball. Uh, and I, I look at that as a positive thing. You know, the reason why they have things like the today show or good morning America or something like that, because it is a fun, upbeat, high energy show that is meant to entertain, but also inform, But it's a discussion. It's it's a little more of a lively experience than I think your standard your standard pinball podcast, which Josh and I are part of the standard pinball podcast community where it's two guys who are enthusiasts who are bouncing ideas back and forth. Yeah. Well, and let's just let's just talk about for two seconds. So did you listen to the Joe Kamikow interview? you you know what so i was out of the country so i didn't so but i did read the recap i read the recap on this week in pinball so go ahead and take it okay uh i just want to point out just like two or three things the first thing is i bet jeff patterson is just freaking out which we kind of do know that harry potter was mentioned i don't know if joe does this to get people like excited to gauge interest i i don't know what it is but he said that was going to be more expensive than the Beatles, which, cool, I think it'll sell more than 1964. And another thing is, I sent this quote directly to you, and it makes me laugh. I've got to pull this up really, really quick.
    10:44
    This is Joe Kamenkow talking about designing pinball machines with Gary Stern. It goes like this. You know, I love making a game. You know, I'm not going to be as good as Brian Eddy or that kid that made Jurassic Park or the King Steve Ritchie. And then he goes on later on to say, I also like that kid who made Atomic Meltdown or whatever that game was.
    11:14
    So Keith Elwin, you are now officially Keith Elwin the Kid or the Kid Keith Elwin. And Scott Denisey is also known as the kid who made Atomic Meltdown. So i i love atomic i actually want to okay i want franchi to make me a back glass now that says atomic meltdown because that is that is awesome yeah and i love that i love that he calls keith a kid because keith is obviously he's been you know he's been a legend he's been in the field forever and he has the two two of the best games that have made in the last two years and yeah so it's it's just funny anytime you talk to someone who's in their 60s and 70s everybody's a kid to them so it's pretty it's hilarious it was great and so it was a really good interview if you got the time i highly recommend it check out super awesome pinball show i'm not going to pretend that i'm not a little upset franchi that you didn't put our intro in there come on you got like everyone else even orbital albert got a shout out in your intro come on dude what's what's going on what's going on yeah no we're just we're just not that important I know. No biggie. Orbital Albert might be your fifth favorite podcast, but we're your, what, 21st? We're the 21st out of 20 seconds. That works. The take-home message from the Joe Kamikow interview, though, is you realize that to make a company, you rely on people who have different strengths. Correct. So Joe is not – he is not a legendary designer, but he is a legendary businessman. And so he is very good about being able to work licenses and figuring out ways of converting one license to a marketable product that is a game.
    13:01
    So for him to actually even bring up Harry Potter, obviously, so many people have gone after the license. but of all the people who work in licenses, I would say that the two most likely people who would be able to get something done would be one Joe Kamikow or two Roger Sharp, because that is what they've been doing. They have been working in licenses their entire life. Well, and the other thing they tease too, I don't know if you read this, but back to the future, does that, does that tickle your fancy? I put back to the future as, um, the matrix. because there are a lot of movies that came out with multiple, multiple sequels. And when you look at it, the first movie was an all-in-one great show.
    13:54
    And when you go back and look at Back to the Future 2, Back to the Future 3, Back to the Future 3 is completely forgettable. Back to the Future 2 it has the fun hey way into the future which by the way is in the past right now but they have the hover bikes and all that kind of stuff and so that was fun but when you look back on it doesn't hold up it feels like a Saturday Night Live skit and so having a Back to the Future game that is just the original movie sure that would be fun because that is iconic But if you look – and I feel the same way about The Matrix. The other two Matrix films are complete garbage. They have no soul. They just have a lot of special effects, and you're thinking, yeah, okay. It was fun to watch, but there's nothing really memorable about it. I'd probably add the last three Star Wars movies to that too. Sorry, Jeff Parsons.
    14:51
    Last three? What about the last six? Come on. Okay. Rogue One was awesome. I will take Rogue One. All the last six canon movies.
    15:00
    Yeah, that's true. You can shoot them out of a cannon for all I care. Yeah, but if you had a Back to the Future game just won, then yes. And this is the same thing that Stern hit on with Jurassic Park. They didn't do Jurassic Park, World, Lost World, Jurassic whatever, Insert, etc., etc., etc. They said Jurassic Park. That's the game. so if you're gonna do back to the future do back to the future don't do back to the future three four miscellaneous whatever so would you get it back to the future pinball machine or is it one of those that you'd have to see and play first well if they focus the theme on just the original movie and it plays like a jurassic park yeah yeah i'd do it because that's a fun that's a fun touchstone from the years. And that, that, that is my childhood. Like it came up when I was like 10 or 11, uh, 1985. So I was, uh, it was the summer before I turned 11. So that's that wheelhouse. So, um, what I would say is maybe, but it would have to be done right. I'm not going to buy it just on license. I'm not a, I'm not a fan boy like you are for But here's the thing, though. Okay, so I've been debating this the last couple of days. I know you just talked about Jurassic Park. I just love what they're doing with the beta right now. I love the concept of you've got a game, you've got your full-blown playing ball machine, but then you have the speed run that Keith's doing, and you can either save people or just beeline it for the helipad and get out of there. And it actually records the fastest time. I love these concepts, like God mode or are you a god on Ghostbusters. And so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place because I grew up on Jurassic Park. I love Jurassic Park. But the fact that Ninja Turtles is coming out, it puts me in a spot where I'm like, I'll just wait. Because if Ninja Turtles is fantastic, then, you know, and I've kind of just come to the point where I'm like, I'll just buy them both.
    17:11
    But I've got to figure out when I'm going to do that. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I get it. But what it comes down to, I really do want a Jurassic Park. It's fantastic. and I think it's not just because of the theme, but it's what Keith has done with that game. It's fantastic. If you've not played a Jurassic Park, I don't know where you've been living. If you've been under a rock, then it's time to get out. Come to TPF. We'll play it with you. It looks so good. That premium is just fantastic. My only letdown of all of this is the quality of the build right now. I know people say it's just dimples, but I own a Monster Bash and I have like no dimples on it and my Attack from Mars does have dimples but the ball gets a lot more airborne on that game and I guess it goes to this point I mean, stranger things the ball gets airborne obviously all the time but there's got to be a point where the play field has to become a little bit more dent-proof I don't know exactly what we're going for here and we'll talk about this later because other companies are doing this And I think that's what makes this so much worse is because other companies are already doing what the community is asking Stern to do. Sorry, I didn't mean to go off on three tangents, but there's three. So Jurassic Park beta code or Playfield or whatever you want, go for it, or Ninja Turtles. All right, so mini games, your love of Ninja Turtles, you wish you were the fifth Ninja Turtle, and Dimpling. Okay you know I take the Dimpling first So the random car ride I had with Steve Ritchie where we took him to get highlighters and booze he actually said dimpling he like look they all dimple They've always all dimpled. It will all even out. It's not a big deal. And so, okay, I'll take Steve Ritchie, and, yes, we'll talk about the other pinball options.
    19:08
    So I'm not really that worried about it. Yeah, it does look a little concerning. but I'm going to trust the king on this one. So I'll let that go. Second thing, mini games. You have to have this. If you want to have speed running is a thing. And with all the games I grew up with, the Nintendo, the NES games, which are perfect for that, the speed run is the way most people are playing them now. They're not really playing them to complete everything. And so in order to compete with modern interest, you're going to have to speed run. And really, you're going to have to figure out ways to make it marketable. So being able to stream or to have a competition for a speed run competition, there's a reason why in billiards, they do nine ball. They do nine ball because it's television friendly. There are so many other billiard games out there. but nine ball is the one that's television friendly and so that's why they do it so finding out a way of doing a speed run you're gonna have to do that um the last one uh what was the third one ninja turtles your love of teenage mutant ninja turtles yes i'm gonna get you a uh a uh burgundy uh bandana and a loincloth so you can dress up like the fifth ninja so can we talk about ninja turtles just for five seconds i know people hear me every episode but i've got to say this. So last episode, Mark and I were talking about it, and he's like, you're the only one in this room that can be disappointed about this. I get that. I want everyone out there to understand, if you're not a Ninja Turtle fan, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles have went through so many iterations over the last 30 plus years that it's okay if Stern doesn't hit the mark because there's been so many terrible things to come out of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle universe that I'm just excited that zombie yeti is doing the artwork like i know that the artwork's gonna be fantastic so i don't think you can make it any worse than the michael bay movies like i don't know i just i'm not too worried about disappointment on this one where like the star wars fans they really love the original trilogy and you can't blame them because it's a really good trilogy but if you don't meet that standard it kind of it kind of lets that fan down where me i've seen ninja turtles that are four foot tall. I've seen ninja turtles that are nine foot tall that can throw down with the Hulk, which makes no sense if you're going to be small and silent and deadly. But anyways, you've got... And fitness suitors, by the way. The fifth ninja turtle, I know we were joking about the fifth ninja turtle. There's actually two of them. The first one's name was Venus de Milo. She was so terrible that it broke up the two creators of the ninja turtles. like you can't make a pinball machine so bad that it forces the two ninja turtle creators to go away from each other i just there's just so much that's why i'm saying like it's such a interesting if you really dig into the history of ninja turtles there's a lot of really really low points so i'm not too worried when it comes to a pinball machine and i get there's other diehards out there But someone that says that they love everything of Ninja Turtles, like, congratulations. That's very awesome of you. But I think it's very Star Wars-esque in the fact that there's a lot of good and a lot of bad. And if you want to enjoy the Star Wars universe, you've got to go and take a grain of salt with some of it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So, actually, I equate the Venus de Milo experiment with a little bit like Smurfette in the Smurfs. Okay. And that, no, I'm serious. Like, I still remember the episode when Gargamel made Smurfette as a, as she was supposed to be a plant to take down the Smurfs. And I still never figured out why he wanted to eat them. Or was it magical powers? I don't even understand. The Smurfberries, all the cartoons in the 80s where everybody got magical powers by eating some magical weird thing. and then at the same time on all the games out there in the 80s that said winners don't use drugs. Exactly, yeah. So anyway, I thought that was interesting. But yes, obviously the Venus de Milo experiment didn't work for the Turtles, but Smurfette did work for the Smurfs. So I don't fault them for that, but yeah. I actually do love that they – as Josh referenced, if you haven't seen the Games Who Made Us or whatever. The toys. On Netflix. The Toys That Made Us, yes. There you go. The Toys That Made Us. It actually talked about the whole evolution of that where that broke up. So one guy took off. The other guy bought him out and then ended up selling that to Nickelodeon for $60 million. No, no. It was $80 million.
    24:09
    Okay, $80 million. But then Nickelodeon went and made like $460 million on this franchise that I thought was dead and gone forever. It would be the same as them reinventing Voltron or reinventing Power Rangers and still being able to make money off it. It's shocking to me the longevity of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. It's really, really impressive. And there is a new fifth Ninja Turtle, but you got to read the comics. It's fantastic. She's done right. Venus de Milo was not. And yeah. Oh, who's the new? Her name is Jenica. and she to boil it down to make a long story short she was dying and one of the turtles gave her a blood transfusion to save her and it mutated her into a turtle. So was she like a pocket box turtle? No she was No she's the same as the ninja turtles Okay but they were like normal turtles that like mutated into humanoid form so she was humanoid without being mutated? Yes so she was a human who got a blood transfusion who then turned turtle.
    25:21
    She was an assassin that worked with the turtles. It's very complex. It's very... I don't know. Read the comic books. They're totally worth it. That sounds completely ridiculously stupid, like all of the storyline, which is why it probably fits. This is the only problem I have. I don't know if you've followed a lot of the origin stories, but the Ninja Turtles... No. Ninja Turtles have always had their origin intertwined with the Foot Clan. It's like, it's just, it's the same, like Superman always came from Krypton. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just don't mess with that. And for some odd reason in the Michael Bay movies, like, they just happen to mutate from some science experiment. And when they were in the sewers, a book of martial arts fell through the grate and they decided, hey, let's just learn martial arts one day.
    26:09
    That totally makes sense. So it just, it was really lame. Anywho. Okay. You've heard enough of my Ninja Turtles. we're moving on seriously you you are like king fanboy on this one well i i dude i'm a product i might have been born in 87 but i love the 80s i i've read batman superman deadpool like and granted deadpool didn't come out till 1991 but hey i i read a lot of the comic books a lot of the cartoons i'm just i'm just a fan okay so speaking of deadpool like there was a ad that popped up on my Facebook feed that I really wanted to buy. It was a T-shirt that had Little Deadpool, and it just had an I'm with Stupid Arrow and it pointed to you. Oh, nice. Like yourself, which I was like, that's perfect. Yeah. Did you see someone's little Deadpool head popped off the spring and went down into the drain hole during a game? No.
    27:03
    Well, that's kind of funny, actually. Anywho, okay. Okay. All right. So let's talk about some of the news this week, and then I want to reverse back to two weeks ago. You'll rewind. Okay. So first off, Spooky just showed 15 minutes of gameplay of Rick and Morty, and this game looks fantastic.
    27:24
    This is arguably, oh, this is now the Simpsons of our time. It's got the voices. It's got the gameplay. It looks like fun. It looks brutal. The center kick out hole spits it out so fast, it's ridiculous. I love that they've done this, and I didn't buy one myself. I know plenty of people that have. I can't wait for them to get in their collections and get my hands on it, because it just looks so fun to play. Brilliant Moopife Spooky. And the topper, absolutely fantastic. It's a couple pieces of plastic and a motor, but it fits the theme so well. And it came for free for supporting them. Like you don't see any other companies out there doing that. Just like, good job, spooky. You guys are doing fantastic. Like Charlie, Scott, we need to have you on and talk to you guys. Cause yeah, we just, we love what you're doing. Yeah, it, it looks, it looks fun. Uh, it's not, I, I've talked about this before. It's not for me, which I actually say is a plus because most pinball is actually geared toward me, my demographic. So I, I'm glad they're branching out. I'm glad they're looking at different things. Uh, I certainly want to play it. I still am of the mentality that before you buy a game, you have to play it because there are some fantastic games that just won't push your buttons. So it does look like a lot of fun. If you're looking for something different than what Stern – well, it sounds a little dismissive, but the Stern game plan and their playfields feel like a Stern playfield, if you know what I mean.
    29:05
    So if you're looking for an alternative, it is a great alternative. This one's not for me, but I'm with you. I want to play some ones. We have a friend who has TNA, and I love it. I think it's fun, and I wouldn't mind having one of those at some point. This one, however, especially with the adult mode, there's zero chance that I'll make it to my house. Well, you can turn off adult mode, but... Yeah. It'll just be solid beats. Exactly. Beep, beep. But it looks great. If you haven't checked out the footage, go hit up Spooky's Facebook page. It's great.
    29:37
    It certainly looks like a great game for this generation. Absolutely. I agree. All righty. Let's also talk about Haggis Pinball. We got a message probably about an hour or two before we started recording, and Damien was nice enough to say, hey, you need to check out my video. And so I thought he was joking because he said that he sent us a video of them hitting a play field with a sledgehammer. And I'm like, ha ha, yeah, like you're doing the deep root thing. Like I thought he was joking. He's like, no, seriously, go watch the video. Did you see this? yeah it's um i it's impressive yeah so so okay well okay uh this is i i'm always i am not an early adopter for technology okay so when things come out and they they have done something different than what has previously done for the past 70 years then i'm immediately skeptical because what I'm saying is that, okay, don't you think that Stern has tried polycarbonate playfields or they've tried a different material, but for some reason – because that's what this is. It's a laminate with the screen printing on it with a laminate on top of it. So it's this plastic sandwich that they have. and I'm all for innovation and trying different things. I do have to beg the question, why has no one else done this? And does it affect the way the ball rolls? Because a ball on a playfield, it doesn't just roll. It also spins. It has different trajectories. And so that's why when you play games sometimes with a playfield protector that has like laminate on it or something, it feels differently. And really, if you look at the way TNA plays, the ball does feel like it rolls differently than other play fields. Possibly. And whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing, but you need to look at that and say, okay, great. But is it still as fun as your standard? Is there something that's going to make it different? So that's why I'm impressed because obviously people want a bulletproof play field. I also wonder about maintenance. I wonder about if it plays the same. I wonder about why other people haven't done it. So, I don't know. What are your thoughts? So my thoughts are I think the reason Stern's getting so much slack is we're seeing more and more people come out of the woodwork, pun intended.
    32:20
    Like Spooky, after the dimpling stuff all came out, you know, you got Spooky over in the corner like, woohoo, look at us. Like our play fields don't do that. I mean, granted, Spooky does have different issues, but their play fields don't do that. And then, you know, deeper, it's been saying for years now, we're still going to, well, we'll see here next month if their playfields really do hold up. And we don't know what they're going to be using as their playfield. But if theirs holds true, there's another company. And then you've got Haggis Pinball, who just on video showed us you could take the ball and drop it from like three feet off the playfield. They took three different hammers and then a freaking sludge hammer to the thing. and granted it wasn't a full swing but it's still you're taking so I think it begs the question because I know what Spooky is doing is different than what Haggis is doing and so I know there's been a certain way that it's been done over the years but what's the old adage there's more than one way to skin a cat why can't we invest in some different technology and see what's going on and I think that's the only reason And it could just be me that Stern and JJP is cutting slack because either bring it in-house and figure it out or stop raising prices. I mean Stranger Things just went up another $200 from Jurassic Park, and we're having these issues. And so I think that's why people are getting concerned. Yeah. Hey, I am optimistic on it. Agreed. and so yeah the way the way i look at it is like i'm not pessimistic i'm not optimistic i'm optimistic and that i hope it's a better way and they've solved the problems uh i am a little bit i'm hedging my bet a little bit just because um when i play tna i feel that it wrote the ball rolls differently it does it feels different and so is it going to provide the same pinball wow factor. Well, and I think the other point to what you had said, though, the playfield's being built the same for the last however many years. They haven't, though. Like, if you look at a 70s playfield, the paint's pretty much gone on any that have not been cleared. And then you look at 80s playfield, and they were a little bit more roughed up, but it wasn't until Diamond Plate was then brought along. And Diamond Plate gave us a whole different thing. And then Stern 2000 series, like we see an evolution and Mylar plays into that and so I think that no two games play alike when it does come to play fields because of that reason over the generations so yeah I'm grateful that the games I have are not roached like the play fields all look great the ones that I bought but I've also not bought any games that have been thrashed So the oldest game I have in my basement right now is Black Rose. And that is a – it's an early 90s game, but it still doesn't have paint that's gone. So, yeah, I guess that I'm more welcoming of an evolution as opposed to a revolution just because – okay, my friend – I'll use the car example. My friend has a Tesla. And by the way, that is a fun car to drive. It's a Model 3, and it has the performance package, and it's like you're driving a roller coaster. You hit the gas, and it's hitting warp speed on the Millennium Falcon. It goes so fast.
    36:00
    I also didn't buy one, even though it's still expensive. I know that. But I also looked at it, and I was like, okay, so what's the maintenance on it? And do you have to ship it away to get it fixed? And so there's like an Audi dealership that's right down the street from me, and I'd be like, I don't know. And I know Audi has their problems too, but I'm saying that there's a dealer there that's been building cars for a long time. And so maybe their version of the electric car may be something I'd be more interested in. I'm not interested in a car for another 10 years or so. But do you see where I'm getting at? Is that an established brand doing something different? Now, usually, I totally admit that it usually takes like a Tesla-type manufacturer that comes along and has a completely different approach to rock the industry to do something. And perhaps that's what Spooky is. That's what Haggis is. That's what J.J.P. was. J.J.P. was the spark that pushed Stern into the game. so maybe this is something that will that will be a revolution in in play fields well and i encourage those that are going to texas pinball festival damien will be there and he's gonna have a kilts there play the game like put your own opinion on it and here's the cool part this game us dollars is 5 250 bucks that is amazing so hopefully he brings some games with him over from Australia with like some extras because these games are really cool and the customization on this is a cool idea too like you can have your name put in the game you have trimmed different colors there's like a toy add-on, and obviously you're going to have a price go up and whatnot, but this is a man that 18 months ago, hadn't even taken off a glass to a pinball machine ever in his life, and now he's building them, and showing him what he can do, So, reserve your opinion for Haggis until you get to TPF and get your hands on it. And then I want everyone to leave us a memo on what their thoughts were, because I really think this is a passion project gentleman that could really do some cool stuff in the hobby if he's supported.
    38:23
    Yeah, this could be a spooky two. It really could be. And I'm looking forward to playing it, because I'd be interested to see just how the gameplay feels. I agree.
    38:36
    Speaking of Texas Pinball Festival, Scott, you are officially confirmed for the Deadpool party. Golly.
    38:45
    The Deep Root party. And you're on the party bus. I am on the party bus. So I, you know, it's, I still, okay, I'll put it this way. Do you remember when My Big Fat Greek Wedding came out? Yeah, yeah. And when like I have no idea what her name is and I'm sorry, but she's the one who wrote it and she was the star and all that kind of stuff. And she says, I feel like the like the new kid who's like going to all these cool parties and I don't even know what I'm supposed to do. I feel like we're the like we're the new podcaster out there. I still feel like we're part of the new the new clan. And I'm like, I don't know. Like I'm are we established? Are we like, what do I do going to these people? Like, Hey, uh, how you doing, man? Yeah. Yeah. That it's me. Um, okay. I'll just go over and hang out in the corner. I don't even know what to say that the fact that we were allowed to go to the, uh, the deep root reveal, I'm really excited about. And, uh, I will, uh, I'll tell you that Robert Bueller put up his own money to do this. Uh, he's hosting this big party, um, for the media who got credentials. Uh, they're They're paying for a hotel. So he is doing a lot of stuff that is, again, still impressive for someone who's trying to launch his own company. I agree.
    40:05
    And then afterwards, they even threw out there that, hey, we've got a bus that's going to be going from San Antonio to Frisco. If you want to ride, let us know. We have a few spaces. And so I got one of those spaces. So this will be really interesting. This will be an eye-opening experience. It's going to be awesome, dude. I'm sorry. But I'm excited to go and tour the factory, get my hands on games, talk to everybody. Talk to Dennis. Talk to Steve. Talk to Barry. Everybody who's going to be involved because these are all legends in the industry, and we have a whole day just with them. Well, that's what I think is cool too is they said right in our letter that it's not just Raza. There will be games with an S there to play. Yeah. So. Hey, he's going big. And so I, okay, I, you know what? He's gotten a lot of criticism and I would say justifiably so for, uh, for some of the claims, but I'm really curious to see what they're going to come up with for this reveal. I'm really excited for it. Okay. So you talked about us still being the new kid on the block, but we've got to talk about, we talked about him two episodes ago. Macho pinball. This dude is, oh yeah. Okay, I want to play pinball with Macho Pinball at Texas Pinball Fest. You don't even have to tell me who you are. You can come in a Randy Savage mask and tassels and your Slim Jims, but we will play dollar games at some point. So I'm throwing it down there right now. Macho, you pick the game, and we will take you out. I agree. But, Macho Pinball, if you are listening, I'm going to put out a challenge to you right now. if you, sir, are the real Macho Man Randy Savage. Why, by the way, he isn't because that man died back in 2011.
    41:57
    But if you were the real Macho Man Randy Savage, the real Macho Man Randy Savage produced a rap album, you better rap as Macho Man Randy Savage. I gotta hear this.
    42:12
    Wait, are you serious? I'm dead serious. He did a rap album? Yeah, you can go on YouTube. Macho Man Randy Savage produced a rap album back in 2003, if I remember correctly.
    42:23
    Oh, so this was even after. So in the 80s, it was a big thing for movie stars who wanted to be music stars and music stars who wanted to be movie stars. So I bet you don't know this, but Eddie Murphy has a singing album out there, and it's not a joke.
    42:40
    He does. The funny thing is you've probably heard the song. It's like, my girl wants to party all the time, party all the time. And it's him singing. So it's, yeah. And Don Johnson had an album, and he sang with like, I think he sang with Barbra Streisand. Seriously, Don Johnson, dude from Die Hard, Bruce Willis had one. Like, all these random celebrities that made albums. So I thought you were going to say Macho made an album in the 80s. No, he made it in the 2000s. He actually made one, and then another one was released after his death. And I think it might have been like his estate took songs that he wrote afterwards and stuck him in. But seriously, it's like Macho Man Unchained or something like that. And it's pretty interesting. Is it like the Twisted Sister Christmas album? No, you've just got to go listen to it. Okay, it's an experience. It's a challenge. I got about two songs in. I was like, okay, I think I get the idea of the CD. Yeah, exactly. That's usually how it goes. You're like, yeah. And Shaq did his rap album too. And I've got to say, I really do appreciate Macho Man, episode number four. If you listen to our Lauren Gray episode, he pretty much took everything we said and put it in his episode number four. His breakfast shake, that was Scott.
    44:03
    Trademark, yeah. Your trademark. Yeah. Hey, you know what? That's all you. That's all you, Macho. You make it your own. Seriously, Macho. So you got to tell us who you are and we got to send you a hat, you know? No, you know, it's even, okay. Yeah, we can send you a hat, but I, you know, I don't even want to know who you are because it's better not knowing. But I want one of those sweet, sweet pink t-shirts. Like, come on, dude. Yeah, no, it's, it's fine. Like we can, yeah, we'll send you a hat and you can do a macho man thing. By the way, I have been wearing the beanie hat for the last week. Isn't that thing warm?
    44:37
    Yeah, it's awesome. I am a frigid guy, and so this keeps my cranium toasty cozy. So it's awesome. Well, what's even funny is Martin from Head to Head, well, formerly Head to Head, he posted a picture of him car shopping. He had our hat on. And then Keith Elwin said, dude, your hat's so 2019. And he had our new beanie on, and I was dying.
    45:00
    Yeah, I felt a little bit like Wayne's World. We're not worthy. Yeah, Keith, we're not worthy. But speaking of, we've got to have him back on soon.
    45:11
    Yeah, love to. Let's talk. I want to rewind two weeks. So you were in Guatemala, head-to-head, called it quits. Then Zach and Dennis decided they were walking away from this week in pinball. And then Special One Lit said, hey, we're hanging up the reins as well. And I think by the end of Monday night, people already kind of had it figured out. And it was what it was.
    45:39
    And you were kind of hearing some of this down in Guatemala. But I want to recap what I was going through at that moment. So Monday, I didn't have a clue what was going on. I didn't know this was a thing. Someone sent me the video about the pinball network, which we put on our Facebook page. And at first, I'm not going to lie, I was a little upset. And the reason being is I consider myself good friends with a lot of these guys. and so I was kind of like, why didn't we get invited? I didn't understand the concept and whatnot and by Tuesday morning I was over it. It wasn't a big deal. Then we had Martin on and Martin kind of told me, hey what I'm doing is Jeff and Teal's and I are doing a show. That's all I know. So I was like, cool, not a big deal. And then he told me, but they're going to be telling everyone here on Wednesday. and so I'm going to take it from there. I've written down my thoughts from Wednesday on and then I guess you're going to give your perspective being an outside person, right, Scott? Yeah. So I wrote down my thoughts. Granted, this was almost two weeks ago.
    46:49
    So if it sounds very past tense and I'm reading, it's because I am reading and it is past tense. So here we go. I'm going to give an outsider's looking in perspective. Scott and I were not made aware of the Pinball Network, and we weren't 100% for sure it was a real thing until the announcement on Wednesday the 22nd. It was fairly clear what was happening between the multiple podcasts quitting and then the teaser trailer that was posted on Nap Arcade a week before the podcast started calling it quits. So let's rewind to Wednesday afternoon when the official trailer was dropped. My initial reaction was, cool, this is a way for some prominent personalities in pinball to give more content without causing less burnout. yes there will be more content but between six hosts for one show it should be easier to make schedules work even martin who went from a weekly show now will do a bi-monthly show which definitely helps with counteracting burnout so the trailer drops right and within an hour or so deadflip streaming posts that no girls allowed picture i'm pretty for sure you've all seen it if not i know deadflip still has it up on his page um which who could who could deny really seriously like looking on the surface of the trailer, it's a bunch of white dudes coming together to create content. But when I saw the trailer, I didn't see that. And maybe it's because I'm not a woman. I don't know. I have diversity in my family, but I didn't take offense to the fact that nobody in the pinball network isn't a representative of my specific background. But when I look at the gentlemen in the video, I saw the content of their character that I've known for the last year or two. Dennis Creasel has stood up multiple times for women's rights in the pinball hobby and has thrown support behind multiple females in the hobby. Zach many has talked very positive about women's rights when issues have come up within the hobby and has had female members of the community on the twit podcast. Greg bone speaks very highly of women in the hobby and has even publicly talked about his daughters and his family and how he is teaching them to be empowered as young women. Jeff T. Ellis has had more female community members on his show pinball profile than probably all the male driven podcasts and streamers put together. Jeff has been very open about talking about the Women's Advisory Board for EIFPA and how it is making positive strides in the hobby for women. Those are just some of the reasons that played out in my mind as things unfolded over the next 24 hours after the reveal. And let's not sugarcoat this either. This post came out and it was like someone had poured gasoline on the pinball portion of the internet and lit it on fire. I stepped back publicly in that moment because I considered everyone from the Pinball Network and Jack Danger to be either friends of mine or at very, very least, good acquaintances. I could see the issue from what I felt like was every angle at that point. And with me, I never comment on one of those threads. There was multiple reasons that I didn't post on it, but I feel like people don't talk with each other, they talk at each other. And that's typically what happens on these threads. So depending on how the reader reads the comments determines on how the conversation would go. And a lot of these times in these comment thread situations, people end up explaining what their comments mean more than actually discussing the issue at hand. One of the main factors of what played into this whole situation for me was what had been happening publicly leading up to this reveal. I don't know if you'd notice it, but there has been an interesting amount of tension between Jack Danger and certain people at the Pinball Network. You can go back, you can read these posts on Facebook as long as they haven't been taken down or modified. But between both Jack and Zach being called trolls, Zach being called a racist, the drama of the Twippy Awards, and the exploitation of their qualifications of their specific categories, it felt like it was just another attempt at another fight. Again, this is from my point of view of my perspective. Others gave their perspective, and it seemed like some were genuine in their concern, while others just wanted to add fuel to the fire that was at a roar at this point. But by Thursday afternoon, Crystal Gimmick announced her joining the Pinball Network, which, by the way, I felt bad because right out of the gate, her post looked like she was already defending her decision to join, and the fire was put out. But this is what upsets me the most.
    50:57
    Most everyone that demanded equality didn't give an apology. Heck, most didn't even give an acknowledgement that the diversity people were demanding had actually happened. But I take two things away from this, and again, this is all my perspective. First, between the arguments leading up to this and the argument itself, I feel like sides are being made and lines are being drawn, which I do not like at all. Pinball is a hobby about bringing people together and dropping the social diversity lines that have been made. So for the – I'm almost done. I'm almost done. so for this to happen felt like it literally split the hobby into two pieces for me we need to figure out how to talk about these issues without what people have dubbed as mudslinging second the hobby is full of personalities and egos what you see in the hobby doesn't necessarily reflect the person that goes home to their family at the end of the day we as a hobby need to respect that so don't bring people's families into the fight i saw this going on in the comment thread and it really, really bothered me. Maybe it's because I'm a father and I have a wife that I very much love and respect. But please, leave people's personal lives out of this. I appreciate open discussion in the hobby about these issues and encourage people to have a respectful conversation when it comes to these issues. For me personally, I'm not a woman if you couldn't tell. But I respect those in the hobby who are. I want for women in the hobby what I would want for my wife or my daughter, a place where they are respected and feel safe.
    52:28
    It's good. It's your raw emotion that happened. And really, you were texting me about it and said, well, check this out. And I was very busy at the time, so I didn't have time to really get into it. You actually interact a lot more with more of these personalities than I do. I have messaged a few of them back and forth, and I've had a positive relationship with them. But I would say that you have interacted and gotten to know more of them than I have. And so in many ways, this felt a little bit like a family feud for you.
    53:07
    When I see things like this, every time I look at a reaction, and especially when you're examining things, I always try to start with the end goal in mind. And then I try to walk back from there. So I ask myself, when all these things happened, was the end goal to bring a more positive view on pinball and to be able to open up forums for many people to contribute?
    53:41
    Or was it an attempt to attack a potential rival network? and you can take your own perspective on that.
    53:55
    I felt that the mudslinging wasn't as genuine as it appeared to be. Dennis even went on and explained a big post, a very well thought out post, and it was completely ignored, just like you said. No one actually acknowledged it and said, oh, they have responded. it just seemed like we are going to ignore what they're saying and we're going to keep pushing our view of the narrative because it helps reinforce our stance.
    54:31
    Sadly, you see it in the news right now, and it's always really been this way. But you see, if you turn to this news program, you're going to get this editorial slant. If you turn to this other one, you're going to get an editorial slant. And so that's where you need to start and say, what was the end goal with all this?
    54:53
    I will also point out that, sadly, the cynical part of me says, if you want to examine the motivation for a lot of people, you also need to consider the revenue streams. And if revenue is part of your pinball business, then what people do can affect you positively or negatively. And that will elicit some reactions, positive or negative. So that's the sad thing. I've said it before that I always cringe a little bit when people say pinball people are the best. Yep. because you see things like this too. And so are pinball people the best? Yeah, they are. Are pinball people the worst? Yeah, yeah, they are. Hop on pin side and stay there for 10 minutes and then think, do I want to be part of this hobby when it just seems like a one-upsmanship of snide comments? When you have a network that's coming out, and this is the equivalent of judging an entire movie on a trailer. you can look at this 30 second snippet and say, this is what everything's about. Okay. Well, I guess part of the question is, okay, have you done it? This is your snap reaction on a 30 second thing. Now, okay. Are some of those feelings genuine? Yes. Are some of those things that are brought up Are they personal dog whistles that really makes you feel a strong emotion Absolutely But I get back to this story I heard it before It could be apocryphal but Walter Cronkite, when he was coming up and he was on the news and there was something that came through and they said, this is breaking news. And he said, okay. But instead of immediately reporting it, he went over and he started calling to verify things. And they said, well, if you don't get on and do this, you're fired. He's like, okay.
    57:00
    And I can't remember if it's a real story or apocryphal story, but here's what we need to remember. Verify. If you have questions, great, ask them. But here's an easy tip. Ask the source. if you have a question ask dennis or ask zach or whatever and so now if they give you a feedback that you're like oh okay well that's exactly what i thought it was going to be okay fine if you want to draw battle lines that's fine but a lot of times you know the the greatest distance between two people is a misunderstanding and unless you're willing to go to the effort to say look it's so easy just to pop off and say a reactionary comment is that really helping like what's the end goal is your end goal to actually bridge lines and open up things and and i'm not really trying to relegate i don't i i've said it before i don't care what your religion is i don't care what your race is i don't care what your gender is i don't care what your orientation is. The reason why I got into pinball is because, hey, you like pinball. I like pinball. Great. Let's play. And that's my escape. But once you insert the qualification of what type of pinball player you are before the pinball player, then that's when the battle lines start coming up. I agree. And if I'm a pinball player, okay, this is Scott Larson. I'm a pinball player who happens to be a white male Christian Mormon anesthesiologist who lives in Utah. Great. But the first thing that I am is a pinball player. When it comes to that group, obviously, pinball is not what defines me. But in that setting, it is. And I want to make sure that anybody who comes into my house and wants to play pinball with me, and if their qualification is, hi, I'm insert name here, And I'm a pinball player who happens to be an LGBTQ player who feels relegated to the shadows and doesn't feel like I have a place in pinball. That's who I am. But guess what? We still want to play pinball together. Great. You're welcome in my house.
    59:17
    And I want people to feel that way. And so I want people to feed. It's getting back to that wolf thing. What wolf's inside you? Feed the nice one. Feed the one who's trying to reach out and try to look beyond opening doors instead of slamming in people's faces. And like I said, I respect Jack Danger. I respect Zach Many. I respect Ken Cromwell, Dennis Creasel. These people are all involved in this. I respect a lot of people in this community. I respect Chris Koulouris. Like, he does something different and brings something different to the pinball hobby. You may like it, you may not.
    59:59
    And I reserve my opinion on that as well. But my point being is there should be a certain amount of respect for people that are taking their free time to entertain you. If you don't like it, move on. I just said it in the epistle, as Scott put it.
    60:18
    And I don't really think there needs to be much more said than what I've already said. So it reminds me of the if you haven't seen The Hunt for October, you should go see it. It's an amazing film. And there's one part where it is haunting, where Captain Ramius or Remus or Ramius, I think he's talking to Sam Neill, who's his lieutenant. And he talks about it. He just he just says his life. And it's a submarine film. It's a submarine war film. He said, you know, it's a life at sea. I'm paraphrasing. A life at sea with no victories, no battle monuments, only casualties.
    61:04
    And I feel that recently, especially in the pinball social network, there are no victories. There's only casualties. Like no one wins in these fights. and if you really want to look at expanding pinball this isn't how to do it i agree okay let's let's end this episode on not this note i don't know if you call this a positive so about a week ago a gentleman reached out to us on pin side his name's jockton and jockton has made this product called pin shades and he asked if he sent us scott and i a pair if we'd honestly review them no bars hold however you say it and just give our honest part no holds barred give our honest opinion about these things um i wanted to get your opinion about these scott okay now let me point out that so i got in town a week ago okay and i have been i jumped right back into working and so i have i have not had time to play location pinball so i wanted to hold off on using these because i actually splurged when i bought my collection and i have anti-reflective glass on every single one of my machines okay so i was concerned that i would not be able to get an i give an honest review because right now I already have like non-glare glass on my machine. So I'm hoping to get to our local pinball venue Keto's and try them out there or go to my friend's house who doesn't have AR glass and everything and to try them out. So it is on my to-do list and I swear I will give an honest review. Josh, but I know you don't have anti-reflective glass on your machines. So what did you think so i'm going to give you a couple different angles i'm going to give you when i first got the product jockton sent it to us ups uh it was very nicely wrapped with bubble wrap inside of a box the first thing you see when you pull it out is a glasses case it's a leather it's not really like hard case it's it's a little flimsy which is it's fine it's a case i mean anyone that owns it's a glasses case yeah yeah so you unzip them uh they're wrapped in plastic, you pull the plastic off. My first initial thoughts when I pulled them out of the thing was, um, I, I thought, at first I thought they were cheap and I don't know why I thought that, uh, cause now more than I've held them, I think it's honestly the lens itself. The lens is plastic, which my glasses are made out of plastic, but my glasses that I wear, my prescriptions are a heavier plastic that feel like glass, where these, they feel very much like plastic. But it's a nice solid metal frame.
    64:04
    The rubber that is on the earpieces is nice. It's what it needs to be. So that was my first impressions. And I was excited for these because our closest location is a bowling alley, and it has that hospital lighting. You know the fluorescent lights that – I am very familiar with hospital lighting. So the fluorescent lights, and they're right directly over the pinball machines over there. There's a fun house. That's the worst. There's a fun house. You have to lean your head way to the left. I'm doing this as I'm talking about it. So you can even see the play field. And so it's a 20-minute drive. So I slapped these on. First night I had them at home. I don't have anti-reflective glass, but my lighting in my house isn't too bad. So I've never really noticed the reflection until I put these glasses on. I've got Attack from Mars, LE, I've got a Monster Bash LE, and I've got a World Cup Soccer. And there's a lot of reflection that comes off those sweet, sweet toppers. I've never noticed this. And I put these glasses on, and between that and the LEDs, that glass was just beautiful. I had no issues with it.
    65:23
    The day before I had the glasses, my warm-up game on Attack from Mars was $2 billion. My first warm-up game with the glasses on was $5 billion. I don't know if it has anything to do with the glasses, but we'll move on from that. But I've gotten so used to these glasses now that I actually have to wear them while I'm playing because of the anti-reflection. Same with Monster Bash. It has that really bright topper. I didn't have any groundbreaking scores on Monster Bash but the other thing that I do like about these they're big enough and wide enough that if you do wear glasses they fit over the top without you looking silly I asked my wife, I said do I look ridiculous in these? and she says, well you look ridiculous playing pinball so does it really matter?
    66:12
    but anyhow they feel comfortable over my prescriptions I love wearing my prescription glasses Did you try them on, Scott?
    66:21
    I did. I briefly tried it. And I will say that if you want glasses, though, you want them to be lightweight. I agree. And so I didn't really quibble about that. And really, most glasses are – you're paying a lot more than you probably should be. I actually used to work in an eyeglass shop. and most of those things are manufactured to look expensive when they really are probably the same type of uh yeah they're they're they're low cost because that's how they make money exactly um i will say there are games there are games that are game changers so being able to see the upper play field is huge um for example when i put now the this is using an anti-reflective glass but the principle is still the same i put an anti-reflective glass in black rose and my wife came down and she looked up and she said, wait, there's a painted ship on the back. Because if you look at the, like below the back box, I don't know what that part is called, but if there's like, the pin blades are on the side and the very back panel, there's a ship painted there. You could never see it before because there was so much glare and the upper third of the playfield, you couldn't even see. But now I can see the whole playfield. And so it does provide a huge advantage because most pinball machines, most of the shots are in the upper half to upper third of the play field. Yep. So you can certainly try them out and see. I am looking forward to try them out on a place that doesn't have anti-reflective glass, and I will give you my report. So I want to mention two more things. So just like you said, that back box, everyone has a back box on their pinball machine. the bright LEDs reflect on that last one third and I've never noticed that either and it has made seeing the upper third of that play field so much easier I did go to the bowling alley the one with the hospital lighting and the first game I ran to was Funhaus because I knew that Funhaus was the hardest one to play because you can only see the play field if you're leaning 45 degrees to the left pop these bad boys on I did the, you know, put them on, take them off, put them on, take them off. And I will say it did not eliminate the fluorescent light that was directly above. It shines directly on the glass. But as I was playing Funhaus, I didn't even notice as I got into the game that the reflection of the fluorescent light was there. And I didn't have to keep my head cocked 45 degrees to the left. and I must have been playing better because I have played this fun house is trashed by the way the hot dog insert in the middle raised up instead of the operator actually fixing it he just sanded down one side of it so it's turned into a ramp now that launches the ball into the back half of the game it's wonderful but anywho I could actually see all that and the highest score I think it ever got on fun house was like 4 or 5 million first game with the glasses on 12 million and I got the high score for that location so that must mean something not only about my skills but everyone else's skills because no one else has taken the high score on this game no one's even got to put their name on the high score of this game the other games I played the light wasn't directly over it but it was nice to have these on because with the lights being to the left and the right they still shine off that glass pretty bad putting these glasses on fantastic, saw great, high scores all around. Honestly, my game has improved because of these. So, I would recommend this product to anyone. Especially for, how much did you pay for your anti-reflective glass, if you don't mind telling us, Scott?
    70:17
    Oh, it's a few hundred bucks each. Each sheet is a few hundred bucks. It was like $200 to $300. These pin shades are $80. and you can find jockton he's on pin side just type in pin shades p-i-n-s-h-a-d-e-s uh he's there hit him up um he's also done a discount code for our listeners so if you give him loser kid 10 he'll take 10 off the purchase it's 79.99 i can't remember if that includes shipping or not, don't quote me. But I mean, still, $8 off of your total price, I mean, $70 for these glasses, I think is still of a deal. Yeah.
    71:03
    It's anytime you can have a it's basically a mod that fits on any game. And really, we're not getting anything for this. So this is just our honest opinion. So if you want to try to up your game on location, which is really one of the hardest things to do, is increase your advantage on location. It really does. And if you're looking at tournaments, tournaments usually have horrible lighting too. Agreed. So that's just another place. If you're going to Texas or going to any of these pinball festivals, they all just set them up wherever they can, and the lights are usually horrible. So if you can get an advantage in those things, you know what? That winnings that you're going to have are just going to offset what you paid. Well, and speaking of advantage, we got a message from Charles Bell and he wanted to thank us he bought one of our hats a couple weeks ago and he wore the hat it got him into finals for states and he ended up taking third overall and he's like I've already got my sights set for first in the state next year exactly you know it's all the it's the loser kid it's the L1 experience that's what it is you are channeling the goat by wearing the hat absolutely so if you want a hat I do have a couple left. I've got some more beanies on order because they went like hotcakes.
    72:24
    We'll have them at TPF. If you want a hat at TPF, please message us so we can keep a hat for you. We've already got one for Jeff Teolis and one for Lauren Gray.
    72:36
    So there's already two spoken for. But if you want a hat, please let us know so we can get you one. We've been running an hour and 20, dude. Yeah, I know. It's been a little bit more of a namaste episode to talk about the pinball karma. And, you know, again, we try to keep it light. And I hate dealing with this stuff because it really detracts from what I'm trying to do in pinball and escape from whatever drama we're all dealing with. And so, you know, again, feed the right monster inside you. Feed the good monster. Ooh, speaking – hold on. Speaking, feeding the good monster. I don't know why I'm relating this to Orbital Albert.
    73:21
    Go check out his Truce episode. We totally... So I don't know if you knew this, Scott. So he did a Top 5 podcast like a year ago, or back in the summer, I think. And we were an honorable mention. We weren't even near the Top 5. But guess what? We made it in his Top 5 this time. Oh, yeah. Number four, baby. Number four. And thank you, Albert. Thank you. Those were very kind words. Loved what you said. And congratulations on your TPN entry. You mean TPF? TPN? Oh, the Pinball Network. Yeah, sorry. Okay, all right. Got it. So.
    74:01
    Oh, my goodness. Anyway. All right. So we're wrapping up now. Any parting wisdom that you have to say, Josh? Treat each other nicely, dude. Play some pinball. Or I guess not dude. Treat each other nicely, people. Play some pinball.
    74:19
    Yeah, let's be positive in the pinball community. And if you're looking for us, we're on all the major podcasting networks. And if you're an iTunes listener, please leave us a review. It actually helps boost our ratings, and it helps more people find us. You know it. Also, if you want to contact us, we're at Loserkidpinballpodcast at gmail.com. We're also on Facebook at Loserkidpinballpodcast and Instagram. If you want to hit us up, honestly, probably the best place is to hit us on Facebook.
    74:50
    Yeah. Other than that, man, I'm excited for TPF. I'm excited for the people coming on our show here in the next two weeks, hopefully.
    74:58
    Yeah, it'll be great. Thanks, Josh. You guys have a great time. You too, man. Ha ha ha ha!