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SDTM: a pinball show Episode 14: This or That?

Straight Down the Middle·video·19m 55s·analyzed·Apr 29, 2017
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.030

TL;DR

Zach Sharpe and Greg debut 'This or That' segment comparing pinball machines and editions.

Summary

Zach Sharpe and Greg host the first episode of 'This or That,' a new segment where they compare popular pinball machines and editions to help viewers make purchasing decisions. They debate Metallica Pro vs. Premium, Medieval Madness Remake vs. Attack from Mars Remake, Houdini Master of Mystery vs. Alien, Aerosmith Pro vs. Star Trek Pro, and Johnny Pinball vs. World Cup Soccer, ultimately favoring Pro editions for value and newer games for novelty despite proven reliability concerns.

Key Claims

  • Metallica Pro models on secondary market range $4,300-$5,000; Premium Editions $6,000-$6,500, a $1,500-$1,700 difference for hammer, light show, and Mark Cross magnet

    high confidence · Zach Sharpe and Greg discussing Metallica pricing and features

  • Stern Premium Edition and Pro Edition flippers/slings feel different despite using same hardware, with Premium Edition feeling 'better'

    medium confidence · Zach Sharpe's personal observation playing Walking Dead and other Stern games

  • Medieval Madness Remake and Attack from Mars Remake have very similar shooting patterns and gameplay

    high confidence · Greg and Zach discussing both remakes

  • Aerosmith Pro code is reportedly better than Kiss code

    medium confidence · Zach Sharpe stating 'I'm hearing it's better than Kiss Code right now'

  • Star Trek Pro is out of production, secondary market pricing $4,200-$4,400 for home use; Aerosmith Pro new box pricing $5,100-$5,200

    high confidence · Greg and Zach discussing current market pricing

  • People who played both Houdini Master of Mystery and Alien at Texas show changed their preference from Alien to Houdini after hands-on play

    medium confidence · Zach Sharpe reporting feedback from attendees: 'people said it felt good' and 'Houdini Master of Mystery changed their mind'

  • Johnny Pinball has uncontrolled left ramp trickle that sends ball to sling, whereas World Cup Soccer has controlled trickle to flippers

    high confidence · Greg and Zach discussing specific mechanical differences and YouTube viewer comment corroboration

Notable Quotes

  • “For the price, and the jump up to a Premium Edition, all you get is a hammer that doesn't function all the time or has some issues with it, but a cool hammer.”

    Zach Sharpe@ 2:23 — Critical assessment of Metallica Premium value proposition; questions if cosmetic/feature upgrades justify $1,500 premium

  • “Every time that we go to a show and we see a Premium Edition, the Premium Edition stands out. There's something gorgeous about it. There's just something that feels way different.”

    Greg@ 3:26 — Acknowledges intangible visual/aesthetic appeal of Premium Edition despite questioning ROI

  • “You can take $600. Or no. And make it a super beautiful machine.”

    Zach Sharpe@ 3:51 — Proposes aftermarket customization as cost-effective alternative to Premium Edition

  • “I'm going to remake all day long. It's a new machine, and I like new things.”

    Zach Sharpe@ 6:34 — Expresses preference for modern remakes over originals despite reliability concerns

  • “Today, you get to pick which machine comes home or you get to put an order in on a machine today and you can't back out of it.”

    Greg@ 8:09 — Establishes hypothetical constraint for Alien vs. Houdini decision to account for uncertainty

  • “But people who play both of them. They love Alien. I think, man, I love Alien, too, and I love movie themes, obviously.”

    Greg@ 9:21 — Acknowledges Alien's proven appeal while expressing personal preference for Houdini

Entities

Zach SharpepersonGregpersonStraight Down the Middle: a pinball showorganizationMetallica Premium EditionproductMetallica ProproductMedieval Madness RemakeproductAttack from Mars Remakeproduct

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Three-tier pricing model (Pro/Premium/LE) value proposition questioned; $1,500-$1,700 premium for cosmetics and hammer over base model creates ROI justification challenges

    high · Greg: 'For the price, and the jump up to a Premium Edition, all you get is a hammer that doesn't function all the time... Is it worth $1,500 more?' and Zach's suggestion that $600-$700 in aftermarket customization achieves similar results

  • ?

    community_signal: Straight Down the Middle introducing new recurring 'This or That' segment format based on positive community response to similar discussion on Pinside forum

    high · Zach: 'we got a really good response. A lot of people really liked it' and 'Greg thought, you know what? Why don't we have our own segment, our own video'

  • $

    market_signal: Star Trek Pro out of production status noted as factor affecting secondary market value and availability; Greg trading it out for newer Aerosmith Pro

    high · Greg: 'They're out of production. Yeah, which is going to add to it' and 'I'm getting rid of my Star Trek, and I'm filling it with an Aerosmith Pro'

  • ?

    community_signal: Greg obtaining and playing Aerosmith Pro (upcoming title) despite uncertainty about long-term appeal; acknowledges Star Trek superiority but prioritizes novelty

    high · Greg: 'Aerosmith is new. It's fresh' and Zach's prediction 'I bet you get rid of it and you end up with another Star Trek'

  • ?

    announcement: Alien pinball confirmed shipping within next year; Houdini Master of Mystery still in development phase

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.060

0:00
How the hell are you guys doing? This is Zach and Greg here with Straight Down the Middle, a pinball show. And we're really excited this week to offer something new for our viewers. I have to say, I got to stop you. You did fantastic. I know that it seems really weird that maybe when we're laughing, every time that we start a show. Yeah. There's always some funny shit going on between us.
0:41
We love Bimbo. We love everything with him. That's when our jokes come out, right before we start. It is when the best stuff happens. So we apologize. Loosen us up a little bit. Yeah, if you guys think that's crazy, man. But we do this for the good time. We are kind of nutty, though. We are nutty, but I just had to describe. He's always talking right before we film to get me going. He says something about my mom.
1:04
Some off-color comment that probably shouldn't be said. Something about my sanctum. It's so great. Leave my sanctum alone. Okay, so get us back into there, Zach. No, I was rolling, baby. You were beautiful. It was fantastic. I'm sorry. All right, so we're really excited this week to be offering something new for you guys. what we touched on, I think it was this month in Pennside, last month, was at the end of our show we talked about some of the forum posts talked about, would you get this game or would you get that game? Would you get Iron Man or would you get Metallica? Stuff like that. And we had a lot of fun with it last month. And we got a really good response. A lot of people really liked it. That's right. People love that. So Greg thought, you know what? Why don't we have our own segment, our own video, then we discuss this or that. Exactly. So that's what we're calling it. This or that. Straight in the middle of this or that. So we're going to go through, I don't know, four or five different options and try to decide which one would be better. This or that. And then, as always, let us know what you guys think, whether you sort of agreed with us with your argument. Yeah, if you think we're stupid or moronic. Yeah, agreed. So let's start it off, man.

  • “I'm getting rid of my Star Trek, and I'm filling it with an Aerosmith Pro.”

    Greg@ 10:57 — Direct ownership decision favoring newer, unproven game over established proven title

  • “Star Trek is the best flowing game in pinball, in my opinion. That third flipper shot, warp ramp, repeatable, is the best in pinball.”

    Greg@ 11:02 — Identifies specific mechanical excellence while still trading for Aerosmith Pro due to novelty

  • “I bet you get rid of it and you end up with another Star Trek.”

    Zach Sharpe@ 13:00 — Predicts Greg will regret trading Star Trek and repurchase it; suggests strong attachment to proven game mechanics

  • “Johnny Pinball is very intense and it a hard shoot but that's what I'm saying it's too lighthearted the ramps are awesome because they're really big wide ramps there's diverters there's scoops there's a goalie that you can hit”

    Greg@ 15:08 — Contrasts Johnny Pinball's complex mechanics with World Cup Soccer's simplicity; defends Johnny Pinball despite difficulty

    • Alien
    product
    Houdini Master of Mysteryproduct
    Aerosmith Proproduct
    Star Trek Proproduct
    Johnny Pinballproduct
    World Cup Soccerproduct
    Walking Dead Premium Editionproduct
    Walking Dead Proproduct
    James Cameron's Avatar Limited Editionproduct
    Kissproduct
    Z Barorganization
    Pinsideorganization
    George Gomezperson
    Flip N Out Pinballorganization

    high · Greg: 'I can get it within the next year here. I'm going with Alien' vs. 'a fully functional game... might be two, three years' for Houdini

  • ?

    product_concern: Johnny Pinball noted as mechanically difficult/uncontrolled left ramp trickle causing ball loss to sling instead of returning to flippers

    high · Greg: 'Whenever it comes back down, it actually comes to your flippers instead of just trickling out of the left ramp' with Johnny Pinball 'trickling out right to that sling'; YouTube viewer corroboration noted

  • ?

    product_concern: Metallica Premium Edition hammer functionality issues noted ('doesn't function all the time')

    medium · Zach Sharpe: 'all you get is a hammer that doesn't function all the time or has some issues with it'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Player preferences shifted from Alien to Houdini Master of Mystery after hands-on play at Texas show, despite Alien being proven/shipping sooner

    medium · Zach: 'people said it felt good... Houdini Master of Mystery changed their mind' and 'people who play both of them... after throwing and flipping on Houdini Master of Mystery a little bit, it was Houdini Master of Mystery'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Modern remake games (Medieval Madness Remake) have LED-on-board lighting design limiting aftermarket LED replacement without filters

    medium · Greg: 'a lot of the lighting is on boards, so you can't really change out LEDs unless you put little filters in there'

    • 2:10
    Metallica Premium or a Metallica Pro. And I'm trying to, I don't even really know your list so that I can just go off cuff here. Yeah. Metallica Premium or Metallica Pro. All right, my first thought is Metallica Pro. That is because, for the price, and the jump up to a premium, all you get is a hammer that doesn't function all the time or has some issues with it, but a cool hammer. Very much so. A light show, which is a cool light show. And what else do you get? Maybe a little bit of different art package? Yeah, and, man, I sort of agree with you on that. You get the cross magnet. Yeah. Or the rising cross, rather. Yeah, it's... Who cares? For the price point, it throws me off, sort of like when you got Walking Dead and Walking Dead Premium. I don't know what to go with, man. I haven't put a lot of time on premiums. So we're looking at a pro on the secondary market. You're going to find one for $4,500 to $5,000. They hold their value. There's a really nice one right now for $43,000 somewhere. That's nice. That's all nice for $48,000. I think $45,000 is. They hold their value. I think $45,000 is. Premiums are going to be over $6,000 to $65,000. So we're talking about maybe $1,500 to $1,700 difference. But this is what throws me off. This is the only thing. Me and my wife, we're both in agreeance. Every time that we go to a show and we see a premium, the premium stands out. There's something gorgeous about it. There's just something that feels way different. To me, it's like I said about the Walking Dead Pro or Walking Dead Premium. There's just something that really stands out about the premium. Now, I don't know if I can justify spending $1,500 more for that beauty and things like the hammer. No, because you can take $600. Or no. And make it a super beautiful machine. Yeah, I'd take $700, get it powder coated, get it colored DMD, get it all of this stuff. I agree. So I have to go too. I have to go with Metallica Pro. I mean, really, I do. And I will say that Stern, nobody ever talks about this, but every time I play a Stern Premium or LE, The flippers, the slings, they all feel different. They feel better, usually, than the Pro. Pros are just real snappy. Everybody tells me, they're like, Zach, it's the same hardware, it's the same shit. But, man, I don't, it just doesn't feel like it sometimes. Something does feel different. I agree. Like, my Walking Dead Pro, the premium I had, it just feels different. Yeah, I do agree. Yeah, something is way different. Because I play a crap load of Walking Dead Premium at Z Bar. And then I come to your house and play the Pro. Yeah. And it just feels like they're different machines. snappier and things just something is very different so that's this or that what it was we got okay so now we're looking at medieval madness remake okay where do you go with attack from Mars remake okay you start us off on this one um mine is medieval Madness I just think that the game I mean obviously it top
    5:04
    It's a top. Is it worth $1,500 more? Yeah, I think so. I have to go with on this one. I do. I wish that the price point was lower, but I just can't get over the castle. And I know, again, it's one of those repetitive shots. But, damn, man, when you're starting to work on even the third castle, it's so challenging. That gate coming back at you. It is fun shots. I mean, Attack from Arsona does the same thing, but I like the layout, and I feel there's just a little bit more on MMR. Can I push? Yeah. Just push and do, I don't know. It's tough. Yeah, they're even. Don't really care? Yeah, it is even. They're even. I would think if you're looking between the two, don't get both. That would be my, no, you don't like it? I'd say don't get both they're very similar shooting games yeah they are I agree with that so if you have a smaller collection don't get both unless you have a large collection but at the end of the day pick a theme that you like so what are you going to settle on then you can't do it you've got to pick that's part of it medieval madness I like Attack on Mars I like medieval madness I like them both too medieval madness is the that's a weakness or that but we had to throw it in there because people have been talking about that Now, you don't have this on your little sheet, but I'm going to throw this in.
    6:27
    Medieval Madness Remake or Original Medieval Madness? Oh, man. I'm going to remake all day long. It's a new machine, and I like new things. I always like original stuff. I know. Collectors. Yes. I think it feels good. Collectors. It's a proven system. It's easy to work on. You're always going to find parts. Proven system with 20-year-old switches. Yeah, but you can replace the switch easy. I know. I don't know what's on. Motors? Yeah.
    6:55
    Cabinets? People will be able to work on them. You know what happens to cabinets after 20 years? Oh, yeah, cabinets. Cabinets get bumped and skinned. Yeah, but you go with a new game. I don't know how this system runs on the remakes, and is it going to be something that you can work on? It's going to be easy to work on. Yeah. I mean, I do like the reliability factor on that. The only thing I don't like about the remake is that a lot of the lighting is on boards, so you can't really change out LEDs unless you put little filters in and stuff like that. That's what I'm saying. I don't like that. My vote's completely on the original, honestly. And I like Coinmex. It's so weird, but it's the nostalgia thing that adds to it. I know that I'm one of those people that argue that because I just like Coinmex. Now, if you go like Flippin' Out's Dragon Door that you put on the replacement, that adds a lot to it. Yeah, who cares about Coinmex? Yeah, Coinmex, I can do away with Coinmex when I've got this crazy-ass dragon face. Lit up dragon. I'll go remake. What else we got? Okay, so now this one right here, this is tough, but we had to throw it out there because, again, people are discussing it. Okay. Houdini. Already? Houdini? Yes, Houdini.
    7:55
    Or Alien. So how can we even give an educated guess on this? We can't. Who cares? We'll do it anyway. It's all speculation. But it's being asked. There's some talk.
    8:09
    Today, you get to pick which machine comes home or you get to put an order in on a machine. today and you can't back out of it. Oh, I'm alien.
    8:18
    Today. Only because that machine is ready to ship for the most part. It is being shipped, is it not? What about if it's guaranteed to be made?
    8:31
    Not when. It might be two, three years. But a fully functional game, are we throwing that in there too? That not only is it guaranteed to be made, I would have to go with Houdini. I know that throws it off. So the only reason you're getting Aliens is because it's proven. No, I'm going for Houdini in the long run.
    8:51
    Aliens, I would say, if you're going to throw in all that other stuff, Aliens just because it's proven it's being made. Oh, boy. I've got it. But this is the thing. If some of the people come back from Texas, and some of the people said, listen, I was Aliens all day long. I really loved Aliens. But after throwing and flipping on Houdini a little bit, it was Houdini. Houdini changed their mind. And it can't be that far along, code-wise or anything else, but people said it felt good. But they say the same thing about Alien. What do you mean? Yeah, they do, but people who play both of them. They love Alien. I think, man, I love Alien, too, and I love movie themes, obviously. And you get to interchange the cabinets. I got a theater down here and everything, but the Houdini thing, there is something so neat and fantastic about it. My pick would be Houdini. These are hard, man. Mine would be Houdini just because of the good things I've heard about it. I've never touched either machine yet.
    9:46
    But just play field art, everything else. I feel better about Houdini of what I would want I don feel better about it I think I the same boat I would out of the two machines which one do I actually want is Houdini Yeah But I would go with Alien because it proven I've seen videos. I've played it myself. Yes. It is spectacular. Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I really like that. Agreed. And I can get it within the next year here. I'm going with Alien. Agreed. Okay. So that's pretty settled. That one's going to cost, definitely let us know on that one. I'm very serious, man. Because I want to know. Who the hell's going to pick Houdini when they don't know what the hell it is? There's a lot of people that did, though. But it did flip. It did. And a lot of people picked it. I'm telling you, a lot of people picked it. And it threw a ball off the play field. Yeah. It's neat. So, okay. So, next we've got new in box, Aerosmith. Well, I ordered one. So, yeah. I picked that. But, but, but. Okay. We're going against another game of y'all. Okay. Star Trek Pro. Wow. Ooh.
    10:44
    Okay. Aerosmith Star Trek Pro. So, we have a proven versus an unproven. Yes. Damn, these provens and unprovens. Well, but I mean, Aerosmith, there have been a lot of... Well, I mean, here's my explanation. I'm getting rid of my Star Trek, and I'm filling it with an Aerosmith. With an Aerosmith. So, for me, the decision came down to Star Trek is the best flowing game in pinball, in my opinion. That third flipper shot, warp ramp, repeatable, is the best in pinball. But, the rule set gets a little stale. There's 18 modes, and I love them. I love the flow. I love the college. I love the light. I love the freaking game, as you'll see in our upcoming review. But Aerosmith is new. It's fresh. It plays like Metallica to me. It does. And it's a board design, so I'm excited about that. And I like Aerosmith. I think if the code is strong in Aerosmith, which I can't wait for yours so we can find out.
    11:42
    I'm hearing it's better than Kiss Code right now. I don't think much. But still. Yeah, it's still good. I just, when I played Aerosmith a few times, I really liked it. But for some reason, it didn't feel like there was last ability there for me. And that's based on just very few games, and stuff changes when you get a lot of games in. But Star Trek, I mean, I can just shoot on that. And they're out of production. Yeah, which is going to add to it. But the thing is, too, is if you get a new box, what's the new box Aerosmith price? Good price, or decent price. $51.52-ish. Okay. And then you can pick a Star Trek up for $42, $43. Am I too low? Yeah, you're haggling pretty good to get one at $42. I mean, no, it's a good deal. It's coming across good. Are you getting a home use only one? Yeah, let's say $43 to $44 for a home use only looking nice. So, I mean, you save a few hundred bucks, $600 or so, and you still turn out with a nice game. The only reason I want Aerosmith is because it's new. Yeah. And it's something I haven't messed with. And it's got an LCD display. Yeah. That's the only reason. But I think in the long run at this point. And it's got Jackie. Yeah. And it's got a toy ball. Yeah, but. And it's got wire forms. Unless it just blows me away. And it's got original artwork. Yeah. And the call outs are cool. And it's got music. I bet you get rid of it and you end up with another Star Trek.
    13:03
    I have one too. I know. That's what I'm saying. You'll end up with another one. So that's my little thing. I want to play that game when I don't have that game. That's a weird thing. Like, every time I don't have Star Trek Pro, I go back to, like, man, I want to hit three or four warp ramps in a row. This is a different feeling game than a lot in a lot. I miss that a lot. So, I would go with Aerosmith just because it's new. Cool. But in the long run right now, until I get more time on Aerosmith, Star Trek. Okay. For the long haul. We're in agreement. Yeah, okay, nice. Do we have any more? Yeah, we got one more. Okay. That just got brought up. Okay, what was that? We posted our Johnny Mnemonic review.
    13:43
    And me and Zach were talking. We got to talk about freaking Johnny Mnemonic again. Me and Zach were talking on the phone. And he picked up a World Cup soccer. I did. And he's like, I don't even know what brought up. Something was said. A buddy of mine had one. It was cheap. And I thought, eh, I'll flip it around on it a little bit. So Zach was like, World Cup soccer beats the hell out of Johnny any day. I'd take World Cup soccer over it. Yeah. I'm like. Duh. I was like, are you crazy? Are you crazy? Like, World Cup Soccer, it is fun, but it's simple. It's simple. It's so just. It's not just Papaduke. It's simple. It's not just Papaduke. It's simple. It's a simple game. All kinds of cool layouts. It's fun, and it's nice, and that's what I said. Johnny is. You know what I hate about World Cup Soccer, though? Whenever it comes back down, it actually comes to your flippers instead of just trickling out of the left ramp. It's a controlled trickle. I was just playing this thing before we started recording. It's like, oh, here it comes on Johnny Mnemonic trickling out right to that sling. You know somebody commented on our YouTube video on it too. Love that. About the exact same thing I was like oh my God I don even notice it to me I mean they just totally different games but Johnny is very intense and it a hard shoot but that's what I'm saying it's too light hearted the ramps are awesome because they're really big wide ramps there's diverters there's scoops there's a goalie that you can hit there's a spinning ball oh my god I got a freaking power glove Power Glitz. Awesome. Make it go.
    15:24
    I'm taking Johnny all day long. Power Glitz. It's so fast. It's so cool. And you got to hang. Let me kick this. Power Glitz. I like soccer. I do. I don't. I hate soccer. I like soccer, but. Oh, my God. My kids try to play soccer.
    15:40
    I quickly talked them out of that deal. I was like, man, if I'm stuck watching this shit. I like it. I don't mind it. I don't even like grown men playing soccer. But World Cup. I mean, there's a lot of games I would love to have World Cup over, but not over, Johnny. Sorry, guys. I think World Cup's a pretty solid game, and it belongs in a lot of collections. You know what, though? I'm just glad that we differed. Yeah, we did. Because we agree on too much. Do you like the, I was playing that right before again, and boy, oh boy, it's louder than the music, the clanky clunky on the game. Bam, king, king, king, king. George Gellman's going to seriously send you, like, hate mail. Like, I'm going to send him your address and be like, if you want to send this bastard or some poison or something, some ricin. Pack that shit in the mail and send it to them. But I did tell Greg, the ramps on there, they are 90 degrees. No, we have to clarify that. For whatever reason, I had 90. You said it once. It's like 180 degrees. They're 180, but they are smoother than the right ramp shot on Lord of the Rings. Yeah. And if you hit them right, they can actually be smooth, believe it or not. But 90% of the time, it's a hard game. It's a fun game. I just like ragging it a little bit because it's Johnny and Mike. Good times, though. Is that it? That's it, man. That's our This or That. I like our first episode of This or That. I like it, too. I hope you guys like it because, I mean, we got really good feedback on that last one. Send us some what we would love from you guys if you're watching. We appreciate you watching. Send us some This or That. Yeah. Send us some situations you got into where you're like, oh, man, I don't know. Should I go with this or should I go with that? Because, honestly, it's probably one of the most important episodes that we could do because Because that's the thing about what's on people's minds the most, I think, is this or that. What do I buy? Do I go premium? Do I go pro? Yeah, yeah. What do I do? Unless you've got mad cash to throw around, you just pick up whatever you want. It's like I like Ghostbusters, but I also like Walking Dead. Exactly. What do I go with? What should I go with there? Should I? Oh, yeah. Yeah, so send us, man. Send us your ideas. What problems have you had? What machines have you been stuck between that you can't decide on? And let us know. And then check us out. Facebook. Instagram. YouTube yeah definitely YouTube not Tinder not Tinder I'm still making a Tinder account not Tinder account I put your face on there you guys freaking kick ass thanks so much for watching yeah you right there that's what I'm talking about and subscribe guys if you enjoy this or don't it's ok just keep watching no you subscribe I'm playing Zach on this one you subscribe I'm not giving you options on this one you subscribe we really appreciate the views guys reach out to us let us know what you want to see which you don't like seeing. The annoying jokes that Greg, that you don't like. The power glove. Rewind that and watch that again. The power glove.
    18:44
    Baby, baby, baby, why you do Cocaine is a hell of a drug I'd say your mom's a hell of a drug, but she's not So I like to play pinball? That's right Off the glass, I mean, you got a credit card Fucking Texas I like Alice Cooper now You don't change my fucking mind? Get out Cocaine changes my fucking mind You want a fucking pinball machine? cocaine themed pinball machine dispenses cocaine when you win hell yes playing all night long take my dollars bitch oh what are we doing here did you have do you want to close on that yeah cause that was really yeah it's really crazy how the do I have allergies or cocaine habit or both this or that cocaine habit or Clareton or Coke I'm gonna lose my shit alright here we go