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Ep 133: Barry O's BBQ with Steven Bowden and David Fix

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·58m 1s·analyzed·Mar 27, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

American Pinball's Barry O's Barbecue Challenge tribute game honors late designer Barry Oursler with innovative mechanics and callbacks to his legacy.

Summary

Loser Kid Pinball Podcast interviews Steven Bowden and David Fix from American Pinball about Barry O's Barbecue Challenge, a tribute game to legendary designer Barry Oursler. The discussion covers the game's development following Barry's passing in early 2022, playfield design decisions including the innovative Bash Lock mechanic, rule philosophy emphasizing player choice and transparency, and hidden Easter eggs referencing Barry's classic designs. American Pinball secured family compensation in Barry's contract from day one, contrary to some community speculation.

Key Claims

  • Barry Oursler was brought into American Pinball in August 2021 with a contract that included family compensation, which was finalized in January 2022

    high confidence · David Fix explicitly states the timeline and contract details, with emphasis on family provisions being included 'way before he started'

  • Barry Oursler passed away approximately one month after the January 2022 announcement, about four days after delivering the complete whitewood playfield layout

    high confidence · David Fix describes the exact sequence: Friday handoff of paperwork with projected April timeline, four days later his wife called with news of his passing

  • Barry completed the core playfield design in approximately six months (August 2021 to January/February 2022)

    high confidence · Josh Roop notes the tight timeline, and speakers confirm Barry's reputation for rapid design work at Williams

  • The Bash Lock mechanic was developed by Ryan McQuaid as a solution to the Space Shuttle lock problem, allowing balls to roll back and forth while rescoring

    high confidence · Steve Bowden provides detailed explanation of the development process with Ryan McQuaid's prototype and Dennis's whitewood revisions

  • Barry had started concept work on a second game called 'American Pinball Factory' focused on parts and service before his death

    high confidence · David Fix references 'initial notes on that, which I've never touched. But they're just there' and describes the concept as a tag-team continuation

  • The original theme concept was 'Car Hop' but was changed to barbecue due to theme availability and Barry's personal connection to barbecue culture in San Antonio

    high confidence · David Fix explains the theme decision with personal anecdotes about Barry and barbecue restaurants

  • Barry O's Barbecue Challenge includes multiple hidden Easter eggs referencing Barry's classic games (Space Shuttle, Barracora, Doctor Who mechanics) intentionally designed for players to discover organically

    high confidence · Steve Bowden discusses the Doctor Who TARDIS reference (1.5x-4x multiplier inserts) and other hidden tributes that Barry's wife received emotional recognition from

Notable Quotes

  • “Barry O's Barbecue Challenge is a game that I hope is a worthy tribute to Barry's career in design.”

    Steven Bowden @ early in interview — Frames the entire project as a respectful memorial to Barry Oursler's legacy

  • “Space Shuttle was my first game that I ever played in my life... me being as involved as I am in the release of this game is a really special moment. It's like an arc of my life.”

    Steven Bowden @ early-mid interview — Personal connection between designer and Barry's most famous work, adds emotional weight to project

  • “Four days later, his wife called me and told me he had passed away. So that took a shock for us.”

    David Fix @ mid-interview — Pivotal moment revealing the tragic timeline and emotional turning point of the project

  • “When I wrote that up with the contract, it was very in line... Kathy has been great. She has been patiently watching. We have sent her updates on the game.”

    David Fix @ mid-late interview — Directly addresses rumors about Barry's estate being excluded; confirms family involvement from contract inception

  • “Don't believe everything you hear on some podcasts. Listen to what comes straight from the manufacturer themselves.”

    David Fix @ late interview — Challenges misinformation in pinball community discourse, asserts manufacturer authority on facts

  • “The reason why I did it like that [Doctor Who reference]... other people can just play a fun game. They don't know. But people will know.”

    Steven Bowden @ late-mid interview — Explains design philosophy of layered game design with hidden depth for engaged players

  • “I wanted to be able to show you why that shot was worth 3.5 million... scoring as transparent as I could.”

    Steven Bowden @ late interview — Core design philosophy: player education and scoring transparency in rule design

  • “You don't have to do that [build sauce meter]. You just won't make as much.”

Entities

Barry OurslerpersonSteven BowdenpersonDavid FixpersonAmerican PinballcompanyBarry O's Barbecue Challengegame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball faced immediate leadership challenge after Barry Oursler's death requiring rapid team coordination; Steven Bowden became key continuity figure documenting Barry's vision from incomplete notes and design principles

    high · David Fix: 'Steve was the first one in my corner saying, yes, let's bring this game out. Let's dedicate it to Barry. And I said, you remember everything? He goes, yep. I know everything now.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Texas Pinball Festival served as showcase venue for Barry O's Barbecue Challenge original designs and Galactic Tank Force beta code testing; beta version performed flawlessly in public testing

    high · David Fix: 'We had it at the show, testing it, and it played flawless. So we were very excited about that, too. While we were in Texas, if you didn't catch the Texas seminar... the new beta version of Galactic Tank Force'

  • ?

    community_signal: Community rumors circulated that Barry Oursler's estate was excluded from Barry O's Barbecue Challenge plans; David Fix directly contradicts this, stating family compensation was contractually guaranteed from August 2021

    high · Josh Roop: 'there have been some rumors floating around or allegations that Barry O's estate was not included'; David Fix: 'From day one... his wife knew about it, too'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Bash Lock mechanic represents novel solution to classic Space Shuttle ball lock problem; enables ball movement and rescoring preventing player trap situations; required whitewood prototyping and manufacturing replication validation

    high · Steve Bowden: 'you couldn't trap the lock. You couldn't trap the game and the ball would move and count... Ryan put a big on that... we got the manufacturer the playfields to be able to replicate that lock feature every time'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.174

0:00
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. It is episode 133. I am Josh Rupp. With me, my co-captain, as always, Scott Larson. And Scott, we've got two awesome guests on today. They're going to be talking to us about their new game, Firey O's Barbecue Challenge. If you want to buy this game, where are you buying it from? I will contact Zach and Nicole Minney of Flippin' Out Pinball. They have always been able to help us out. And if you want that specialty game, they can definitely help you out. And definitely, Barry O's Barbecue Challenge definitely fits the bill for a specialty game. Definitely. We're going to talk about that today. Awesome. And if you want to see our pretty faces, I keep forgetting to say this at the beginning of the episode, you can join us on YouTube and look at all of us as we smile.
0:50
See Fix and Steve Bowden. You guys are here joining us from American Pinball. We're excited for this game. Tell us about this game, guys. Tell me what... Give us the rundown. Yes. You want me to do it, or you want me to do it? All right, fine. Go for it, Steve. Barry O's Barbecue Challenge is a game that I hope is a worthy tribute to Barry's career in design. Absolutely. That is why you'll see some of Barry's call-outs in the game. But as far as the game itself, Mario's Barbecue Challenge, you are an unknown chef, an unknown challenger at the festival. Okay. It's the greatest festival in the universe. It has barbecue and it has hot rods there.
1:35
You know, most barbecue festivals have lots of car shows there. So I really like that mix of having them together. So your goal is to try to basically roll the festival as an unknown challenger and defeat the six stars of barbecue who are on the similar play field, who are in these barbecue contests with you. So your goal is to not only defeat them, but while you're doing that, also do some of the do some of the hot rod challenges that are also part of the festival. So you're showing your multitasking abilities. And in that way, you are basically becoming the master of the festival. Massive cooking, massive hot rods, and then some other things, some Easter eggs that might show up that might come in later. We'll see. And this is, honestly, this is a really cool tribute to a man that helped guide and direct pinball. Some say that he saved it back in the 80s with Space Shuttle, that design. I mean, he was on the first talking pinball machine, Gorgar. I mean, Barrow's got quite the illustrious career over pinball over the last four decades. Yeah, but Spaceshuttle, I finally get to remind people of this. I've said it before, but in other interviews, but Spaceshuttle was my first game that I ever played in my life. It was Spaceshuttle. So me being as involved as I am in the release of this game is a really special moment. It's like an arc of my life, really, that was my first game that got me into pinball. and now with this game, being able to work with Tim as much as I did on this and have this come out the way that it did, it really is a special thing. And I hope people enjoy it and can appreciate what we have here.

  • American Pinball is a team of approximately 15 people plus manufacturing partners, with multiple code updates planned for Barry O's Barbecue Challenge

    high confidence · David Fix lists team members (Steve, Casey, Joe, Ryan, Jack, Jessica, Bobby, Natasha) and states 'there are more coming' updates beyond the three already released

    • Steven Bowden @ late interview — Demonstrates design approach rewarding player engagement without forcing specific strategies

    Flippin' Out Pinball
    company
    Space Shuttlegame
    Gorgargame
    Ryan McQuaidperson
    Sophia Ryanperson
    Dan Hughesperson
    Loser Kid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Josh Roopperson
    Scott Larsonperson
    Barracoragame
    Doctor Whogame
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Baltimorecompany/event
    Kathy Ourslerperson
    Galactic Tank Forcegame
    Dennisperson
  • ?

    design_philosophy: Hidden Easter egg strategy: designer intentionally includes subtle references to Barry's classic games (Doctor Who TARDIS multipliers, Space Shuttle drop target positioning, Barracora elements) as organic discoveries for engaged players

    high · Steven Bowden: 'I did it like that... other people can just play a fun game. They don't know. But people will know. Okay. That's the reason why I did it like that'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Steven Bowden emphasizes transparent rule design showing players exactly why shots score specific values; screen placement prioritizes player information visibility for fast decision-making

    high · Quote about showing 'why that shot was worth 3.5 million'; center LCD screen design philosophy explaining placement of two large numbers for 'risk reward system'

  • $

    market_signal: American Pinball distribution through Flippin' Out Pinball (Zach and Nicole Minney); confirmed pre-orders suggest commercial viability and operator/collector interest in Barry O's Barbecue Challenge

    high · Josh Roop: 'Zach Minney and Nicole, they have ordered barbecue games so yes, you can buy games through Zach Minney and Flippin' Out because they have already ordered them'

  • ?

    community_signal: Barry Oursler was brought into American Pinball from failing Baltimore company in August 2021; represented his final game design work before his death in early 2022. Had conceptual plans for second game ('American Pinball Factory') left unrealized.

    high · David Fix: 'Barry called me up and said, hey, David, things are going south. I think the company is going down. I need a gig.' Initial notes on American Pinball Factory concept exist but 'never touched'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steven Bowden worked with Barry Oursler at Baltimore facility before joining American Pinball; maintained design continuity after Barry's death by documenting and completing his vision

    high · David Fix: 'Steve and Barry worked together in Baltimore beforehand'; Steve references processing grief then 'get back your work presentable' to complete Barry's rules

  • ?

    product_strategy: Barry O's Barbecue Challenge has incomplete wizard mode and additional content planned; multiple code updates already released with more coming. Wizard mode difficulty will scale based on player performance

    high · Steven Bowden: 'Barry's final is being worked on... depending on what you do during the main competitions is depending on what wizard mode you face. That's all I'm going over there'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Center LCD screen implementation presents design challenges; not mirrored to maintain player-facing information priority; developers working on transparency of certain rule mechanics still in development

    medium · Steven Bowden: 'the screen in the middle is not mirrored. That's very important... There's one thing that I want to work on that's not as transparent, but I'm working on it'

    • 3:23
    Okay, so let's go through the play field a little bit because obviously there was a collaboration to take Barry's ideas, to bring it into this, but it's not solely. This is a group project, and it's a...
    3:39
    It's a tribute, isn't it? Like you're bringing a lot of burial things, but you had to take it to the finish line with extra help. Well, let's step back here. Let's just rewind a little bit. Okay. Get the whole picture. Okay. So in August of, it would have been 21, we know that Baltimore imploded. And Barry had already been in contact with me beforehand. Obviously, Steve was there.
    4:13
    Barry had helped me find Sophia Ryan, who is our mechanical engineer. So Barry called me up and said, hey, David, things are going south. I think the company is going down. I need a gig. And he also shared with me at that time that he wasn't coming back, that he had been battling cancer again and certain things have happened. and I kind of shared this with Josh just a little bit ago, that we wrote up the contract. We started the contract in August. And with Barry, it was me and him on the contract. Barry had a handshake before the contract even started. So he immediately started working with Steve in August on the game design.
    4:55
    Barry has always been considered a quick gun, a quick person with a pencil, and he can bang out a play field really fast. Mark Richie always thought it was amazing what Barry could put together in a very short period of time. The contract was written up and at that time, before the contract was finalized, I had said to Barry, why don't we put something in here for your family? And we did. We put it in way before he started that his family would be able to, which was different than the whole industry has ever done. So we wrote that up for him and put that in and then the contract was signed by the legal team and everything in January when we made the announcement of him joining America's Involvement. That was January of 2023, right? Yeah, January of which year you're talking? 23. That's January of 2022. So last year, last year, 23. Okay. Been one year since we did that. So January 23, we made the announcement, and then, you know, it's like a... Where's that 22? It may be. It's 22. It has to be 22. Okay, okay. So after we finally got Perry on there, we made the announcement, and after we decided to follow through, Steve had already been working with him. All right? The game plan and layout was pretty much done. In fact, Barry called me up, and he had just sent over to Zofia the entire white wood play field layout. Steve had already seen it. And we were going to start making the first white wood for him. In fact, I told Mary this is how it went. It was on Friday. I said, Mary, thank you for giving me all the paperwork at the time. We're going to do this, X, Y, and Z. I said, give me a month or two because it's going to be end of March, April. Let's have him come into the office and flip the white paper the first time. He said, that would be better to be up in Chicago during those periods of time. It's perfect. So that's how we left it. And then literally four days later, his wife called me and told me he had been vaccinated. So that took a shock for us. Steve really doubled down, worked out all the rules, everything that he had already worked with Barry. went through all the notes on very grabbing everything you possibly can that they had already talked about that whole period of time right well in the design phase when we were talking about this stuff I already had a bunch of things that we have worked on the initials like hard for that first okay submitted so I hear the news I get the call you know we have the moment you know get stoic get you know make sure get back your work presentable you know to tell people, okay, and then it becomes, okay, trying to get everything down that we were going to talk about when he was here on paper because I would just not be able to live with myself if I had forgotten some stuff that we had talked about that wasn't written down. There was a lot already down, but there was literally stuff like in the initial rule set that I had covered in green that people were burying us burying us, do not touch this, we must have this, we must do this in this game. So some of that was brought all that was brought forward as I was writing it down and make sure I had everything done as the initial plan was going forward. So that's how that worked. So but at that point, at that point, once I had processed the things I needed to process with what would happen and I began to work with, okay, what do I have here? It became, how can I make this a varied game? How to make this a very true game? Do I have, what can I use here?
    8:51
    We have the space shovel parts, we have parts we wanted to do with, and that's how it sort of flipped over into, I'm going to try and make this a varied game.
    9:03
    And pretty much with the team, when we lost Barry, It wasn't like, it was pretty much within that week. We as a team sat down and said, let's dedicate this to Barry. And that's when Barry O's barbecue challenge, we want to call it Barry Osberg's barbecue challenge. No, Barry O's barbecue challenge just had a great ring to it. And we were like, this works. This works for a dedication for a person who, and then Steve and the rest of the team just started working on this. We built up the white wood. We flipped it on time, which we were going to do. We found one problem with it. And Dennis helped out with that. We looked at the design. Barry had the three bank drop targets. Yeah, the three bank was going to be on the right. You notice that they're right there, right? Okay. So the attempt, the thought, our thought was, let's see if we can have the three bank lead up into a combo shot into the upper hole, you know? Okay. But the problem is once you, as we learned, once you take out a few of those targets, it gets a little dead up in there where certain things aren't as smooth up there. It came to be a ball trampoline. Yeah. A drop target was down. And it's like, just put it in the space shuttle position, please. Okay. Okay, please.
    10:22
    Let's put it in the space shuttle position. It belongs there. When people see it there, they're going to recognize why it's there. I mean, never mind it as a special on the art, but that's much later. But I'm here to recognize why we put it there. It makes sense there. The backhand is there. The sweep is there. So that's why that moved. Absolutely. And Dennis did it within a couple days. Quick. What's that? That art. Dennis was mad on the spot with that. I was like, Dennis, you're right. Yep, I got it. Yeah, you're right. You're right, man. He got it. And from there, it was just small, little changes. nothing wholesale, the whole game design was there. We brought in the smaller LCD, but really the inserts up in the top, all of that was pretty much locked in already with Barry. We already had stuff pretty much done. Now, the small story about it, we can tell, the original theme of the story was going to be Car Hop, but we kind of told him that Car Hop had already been taken, They've never even been done and it's a little outdated. And it wasn't that hard to explain about barbecue restaurants and barbecue festivals. Especially since he and me in San Antonio and taking me as well as the people to various barbecue places and him cooking up barbecue and keeping his house with his family, eating some barbecue. So that's, the theme is not random, okay? No, no. No one convinced Eden to get very on it. even said there's more barbecue restaurants here than mcdonald's right and he's like i i understand it i understand it so yeah so i mean i guess well i guess i don't know what part of the show this would be but i mean like that's what you're talking about the top lanes right yeah the original design there's four top lanes right that's with one row of lights now there's two rows of lights why because I wanted that to be barricaded. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Correct. Oh wait, I can make a second row and add the fun thing with barricade and brought back in, make it a little harder. I like barricades, top lanes, and I can't do them. I'm really bad at it. Oh, and it's really exciting to play that way. So that's like, that's one thing as far as the transition from the Ferris original design of the one row of lights to two rows, like it's like that. So as far as, I mean, yeah, well, we showed some of the original designs at Texas. Right. At Texas. But the other thing we basically talked about was that we, because Steve and I both love Space Show. I own two Space Shows. I remember playing Space Show when it came out also. And I know what everybody says, it's safe, pinball. It hit a good run at Williams. It did some good numbers. It had some cool stuff. And people love space shovel. But one of the things that Steve and I always, everybody always talks about is when the balls are in the lock, you hit it and you can't do much with it. So we were looking at this because we had two physical locks on the plate field that are going to lock balls. Is there a way we can do something? And we started, you know, talking about it. And then Ryan McQuaid, who jumped in the year, said, hey, we can turn them into where they can roll back and roll forward. And that's when Bash Lock pretty much got developed. It was really quick. Ryan worked on the white wood, made a prototype to show the ball rolling back and rescoring, rolling back and rescoring. And then more importantly, that you couldn't Dracula-shape the lock. You couldn't shape the game and the ball would move and count. That was one of the first things I checked. And once I saw that, I'm like, oh, OK. I give my blessing. Yes. OK, because this is, I want people to see we can hit this, see if we can score it, see if they can hit it out, we can score them for that put it back in we can score them for that Things like that started to form after the concept worked and Ryan put a big on that So yeah I mean he just got championed that with Dennis working through whitewood provision whitewood revision to the point where we got the manufacturer the playfields to be able to replicate that lock feature every time And it just came out It worked out great And then we made rules for it And it funny because we talked about calling it a playfield and it smashed saucers, but it was kind of a thing. And then we said, well, why don't you just call it Bash Locks? And then that just took off and it just stayed with it. So we've called it Bash Locks ever since. So it's kind of fun, you know?
    15:10
    So looking at the timeline, because you said that Barry hired on August of 21 and you guys announced in January of 22, and then sadly he passed away a month after you guys announced that.
    15:23
    He did that. So he essentially did this play field in about six months or less. Yep. And you said you were known for just making – That varies timeline. He was always going at Williams and everybody to start something in six months. And it's funny. He had already started working on another game, which I think I was going to say the late day. Right. He only had a concept, which was as crazy as this is going to sound. I know what it is. Of course. He was talking to me about this too. This is going to be the second one. It's going to be called American Pinball. Yeah. Factory. Parts and service. We managed to take the ball around and get the pinball machine made, put it in a box, and get it to the doctor so the truck can pick it up. It's crazy. I have this. I have initial notes on that, which I've never touched. But they're just there. Because that's in addition to this game. We were talking about that, too. Again, it was basically going to be, yeah, Barry's coming here, I was going to be with Barry, and we were just going to be like a tag team, really, doing Barry-style games, a lot of games.
    16:33
    And it was going to be. And Steve and Barry worked together in Baltimore beforehand, and they were excited about some of the stuff that we were going to help. And then that never got to see the light of day. So when this came about, I was like, we have to continue. Steve was the first one in my corner saying, yes, let's bring this game out. Let's dedicate it to Barry.
    16:57
    And I said, you remember everything? He goes, yep. I know everything now. So they were writing it down. I have a plan. I have a plan to work out, which became, like, first became a multifaceted plan, and it finally got melted down to one coherent plan, because that was a bit of time before that happened as I was trying to work out. how to make this one coherent theme while also making it a very game. You know, so there's a bit of marrying has to go around on there to make that work. But yeah, once you had that, then we were, we were fixing running. And, uh, yeah, I am, I am, I am pleased with what has come out that there's still more updates to come. Oh, I love this game a lot. There's a lot that's not in here. There's a lot of rules that aren't in here. And assets. A lot of that's not in there yet. So I am hoping that once this... You're saying not yet. Not yet. I have a plan. So I can look at my... We're still developing it. We've had three updates, and there are more coming. And so for everybody else in the home, while we were in Texas, if you didn't catch the Texas seminar, Texas also had the new beta version of Black and Tank Force. So very shortly that beta code will be available for everybody. We had it at the show, testing it, and it played flawless. So we were very excited about that, too. Remember, we're a small company. There's Steve, Casey, Joe, Ryan, myself, Ryan. Ryan, you got Jack, Jessica on animations. Jessica, Bobby, I mean. Natasha on electric.
    18:40
    You're driving on a team of maybe 15 people. that are building and coming up with a concept of a game. And then God bless the lighting factories. Yes, that's right. All those guys back there that take it and make it work and look great. And we can't forget Dan Hughes, right? The guy who did all the art for this. I love his car. It's his car artwork. Yeah, I love those. And so I wanted it. And so that's what you're seeing. I like the barbecue guys at the bottom. They definitely look straight out of a barbecue thing.
    19:20
    The Burton brothers? Yeah, yeah. Burton and Rose, that's right. Absolutely. Burton and Rose. That's right.
    19:28
    But understand that Dan Hughes also worked at WMS. He also worked at Williams. He did artwork for, I want to say, Indianapolis 500. He did work at LNG. He knew Barry. Okay. He buried the prankster that he was and was excited to work on this game with Bear. And then when Bear UK asked, he was like, well, we have to definitely do something. And he did the back class, and he did everything else that we've seen on this play field. Pretty cool.
    20:01
    Okay. Now, there is something that I would like to give you the opportunity to discuss because there have been some rumors floating around or allegations that Barry O's estate was not included in the original plans for this game. Now, that's what some people have speculated on on other podcasts, and so I just figured this would be an easy way of asking you directly, were they always involved in the plan? Yep. From day one. That's why I said that in the beginning with the contract. When I wrote that up with the contract, it was very in line. And his wife knew about it, too. And, listen, Kathy has been great. She has been patiently watching. We have sent her updates on the game. She knows what was coming. She couldn't wait to see it. We put some hidden stuff in there for the tributes, which she absolutely broke down and started crying in love. But we kept her apprised through the whole process of this, and she was very excited about it. So, you know, some podcasts would also say that I'm dead or that I'm dying or I've fallen and got hit by a truck. Don't believe everything you hear on some podcasts. You know, listen to what comes straight from the manufacturer themselves. If we want to tell you that something's coming on, we'll tell you, okay? and that's why we've killed a lot of rumors that for some reason there's always a rumor about me and my earthly demise so there you go so not true and by the way some podcasters might say one thing but like you said Zach Many and Nicole they have ordered barbecue games so yes, you can buy games through Zach Many and flip it out because they have already ordered them okay I would say I'm glad also Bowden that you've pointed some of the stuff out about Barracora and the space shuttle stuff on the left side because one thing we have for two is this is just like a replica of Hot Wheels but if you look closely at this I mean it's I love that not only are you like showing Barry O in the artwork but you're also doing it through the games that he made as well did you figure out another one? figure out another one that's on the play field I told you Barracora Give me that one. Space Show or Space Station are obvious. How about that right ramp? I'll give you that. What's the right ramp again, Tom? What is that? I'm trying to zoom in on. What do you see on the right ramp? I see the spatula, which is cool the way it is. Keep looking at the spatula. What's that look like? What are those inserts? What do they say?
    22:44
    Inserts say, you know, play filled. I can't zoom in that close on it. Okay, well, I'll tell you what they are. Okay, so you have the six inserts, and they say 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x, 3x, 3.5x, and 4x. Okay. What game, what paragame does that?
    23:05
    Exactly like that. Of course you're going to put me on the spot like this. Yeah. I'm waving the flag. I'm not the rules guy. Is it Dracula? You got the answer and you're yelling at your podcasting? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it Dracula? You know what? They just might have to get into TARDIS at some point.
    23:30
    And now you're getting away. Now you gave it away. But it's things like that, yeah. So, yeah, a little bit of – I mean, just even – I'm glad to see if they figured it out after I gave them that clue. Well, Doctor Who is the TARDIS. Yeah, he did. Oh, yeah. Okay, I know what a TARDIS is.
    23:53
    Okay, yeah, I don't know what it stands for, but I know what franchise it is. It's the blue phone booth that takes you everywhere. But it is fun to see people find that, like organically, because that's the reason why I did it like that. Okay.
    24:12
    And then other people can just play a fun game. They don't know. But people will know. Okay. Ah, okay. Yeah, yeah. Now talk about the screen in the middle, okay? Because there are challenges with having screens in the middle of a play field. So talk about the incorporation. Talk about the decision of putting that in there. And talk about how it's incorporated into the game. Remember, the screen in the middle is not mirrored. So that's very important. That's very important. It was very important that we didn't do that because I needed to have more information in your face than I wanted. And if you've played the game, you'll see the two big numbers there. There's a reason why they are always in your face looking at you because it's sort of like a constant risk reward system there that's always in your face along with the quick references, certain things that are in the upper screen like the meter, like the sauce and all that as well. But I wanted to make sure this was also a convenient place to look at information where you're not looking up as much because, you know, on a fast game like this, it's hard to do that. So I want to put the very important information, the very, it's business time down there on the screen. It's party time in the back, really. Right. And mostly the player's screen. So, you know, giving you all the player's information. Like your score is always there. Like the current player score is always in there. So everyone else is up there. But your player score is down there. Once you start a mode, there will be tool tips up there, like, you know, pro tips, like, shoot, this may mean whatever. And then I'll have the score running down so you always know what you're scoring. That was one thing. Another thing that was important to me is to try to make the scoring as transparent as I could.
    26:00
    Like, you know, sometimes you shoot shots, and the shots were 3,473,000. You have no idea why. I wanted to be able to show you why that shot was worth 3.5 million. Could you just saw it?
    26:13
    So I'm mostly there. There's one thing that I want to work on that's not as transparent, but I'm working on it. But the mini screen helps with that, too. It helps with that, too. And I've heard people appreciate the mini screen.
    26:31
    And as far as, you know, it can be a personal look and everything. but it was great talking to you. Steve's going to stick around.
    26:43
    So I'll catch you guys later. Thank you, David. Go, Steve. All right, so back to the screen. So, yeah, so one of my goals with this game is to really make it like a quickfire turn to game queue. So, if you, it's sort of in the way of why those two numbers are there, why they're always in your face, which you very widely there and that's sort of a let's make a deal, you know, do you want to keep pressing your luck sort of thing with that system. So, I mean, I am glad we have it there. I'm hoping people would be able to use it in a way that will help them play better. As she said, it's in a view that you're kind of looking at that area most of the time anyway.
    27:31
    You know, so, yeah. So one question I have looking over these pictures and whatnot is that you guys have spinners on the ramps. What's kind of the logic behind that, and is there something special that we need to accomplish with them? Do you have special rules that you're going to have set up for them? Oh, yeah. Well, the spinners on the ramps is that, well, I like, well, spinners are great in general, But I like that because it has the ramps on a repeating shot so that you can, like, if you can keep repeating the shot, you can keep spinning the spinners. It offers that. Because usually when you shoot a spinner, the ball is somewhere else, and so you can't get it back and get more spinners, you know. But the thing with this game is, yeah, you can repeat the spinner if you keep hitting the ramps. But the ramps, the left ramp is easier than the right one. The right ramp is a little bit more difficult, but that's why I'm paying you to play the legs on it. Okay. So that's what balances that out. The spinners themselves are in charge of keeping track of how much you've been working on your secret sauce. Okay. So you go back to the narrative of the game. Right. You also, as the challenger, I've been working on like the barbecue challenge. They have their sauces they give you at the competition, but you always have yours. So if you build up your sauce to 100% and send you a back of your sauce, your sauce is already better than theirs. So that will give you a better rating when you win the challenge So it sort of as you shooting the spinners as you shooting the rams and the other things if you make sure to build that meter up to match and have your sauce, that means you're going to get a better trophy for doing that. So, one of the things I want to be sure to do with this game is that, yes, you can play the game straight through and just bum rush it through and you won't score as much, but if you care, you will be rewarded. is basically like that. Okay, so it sounds like a speed run. If you speed run the game, you can get to the end, but you're not going to maximize a lot of points. You need to actually build... You have to construct the modes and go through them. Right. For example, the basic cook-off, the foundation of the game, all cooking is orange shots. Orange shots is always cooking. Orange, orange, orange, right? If you could just shoot the orange shots for level one, go into the saucer that says orange, and you're done. But you didn't really do anything. Okay? So you might leave that with seven, eight million, maybe. But if you remember to spin up your sauce to 100%, that upgrades your trophy. If you remember to get some side orders at the drop targets, Make your macaroni and cheese and your coleslaw while you're cooking. Show your multitasking abilities. Shoot those job targets. I'm paying you for that because if you shoot those job targets, you might drain from them. So I'm going to pay you for that. Remember to do those. And the most difficult part of it, if you can get your meter correct, if you can get your flavor at the right level that the judges want, that gives you another level. So the perfect way is doing all of those things and then winning. then that gives you the biggest multiplier so you don't have to do that you just won't make as much so does this game have an ending then? like once you finish does it end the game if you get to the end? no right now Barry's final is being worked on so it's going to loop to the next contestant so that you can light your box You have to win a cook-off to lighten the lot. There's not a hard end yet. That's one of the updates we have to go through.
    31:28
    The wizard mode you face will be based on your performance. I don't want to say any more about that yet because it's not in the game in that particular version. But it will be. So depending on what you do during the main competitions is depending on what wizard mode you face. That's all I'm over there. Right. One is a very true. You know, for a specific reason, one of them is that. But yeah. So but that's just the cook off part. Then you have the old part, you know, and you certain modes, you get certain perks for doing. Oh, you know, like I give you one. If you do a mission, a mission involved, the barbecue pit targets, you know those six targets there? Right? If you finish it, you get the ability where you hit a barbecue pit target and you get spotted another one.
    32:22
    So it may get easier to finish for the rest of that ball. Okay, good to do, all right. But that's another game, we already mentioned this game, but that's another callback to which game? Doctor Who, Doctor What, Doctor Four, both of those did that. where you hit a target and it gave you another one. So you can use that to get some barbecue pit targets and get more awards really quickly, but they're very dangerous, so don't drain, and whatever, blah, blah, blah. Game play, game play. So that's just one of the perks. There are other perks like vans are worth more, and orbits are worth more, and what else? Saucers are worth more, things like that. So there are lots of things that you can build a play field. You can sort of build like a godlike play field could last long enough, but don't drain them because they're just gone. So that could be one way to come back from somebody who's gotten hundreds of billions. It should just do a few modes, get a play-through next, and then you're good. That's another thing I'm hoping to see is that I want to see from hundreds and thousands of games, is there part of the rule set that's, of course, broken to where if you go too far you can't catch up. I think I have multiple things that balance that out, but I want to make sure of that. And if not, then that's just numbers. But it's fun to see someone finish a cook-off and get like $200 million, and they're like, man, I think that's unbalanced. Well, no, because you hit this many food shots, and then you did the sauce, and then you did both side orders, and then you got the media perfectly correct, and you did it in 50 seconds, so you get a time bonus, and you got a playing field at it. I have to pay you for all of that.
    34:07
    It's like, can you get me all this money? That's what that is. So, yeah, you earned that. I know. Good, legal. Good job.
    34:16
    There's a reason why you got $200 and he got $40. Okay. So there are other games that have been introducing, like, challenge modes or a kind of a warp zone mode where they can warp to a certain part of the game to do a mini wizard mode or something like that, or a co-op, like two-on-two or one-on-three or something like that. Are you considering doing anything like that in this game? Well, I'm sure we can get to a point where we consider putting our team play in there. I mean, that's just putting team play in. Like, yeah. So, I mean, I don't want to say officially, but of course, other games have team play, why not? Is there something that warps you up something?
    35:03
    Yeah, not now. It won't be. I'll refer back to the statement of, it will depend on how well you do, which wizard mode you see.
    35:14
    Okay. So, again, since I don't want to comment on things that are not officially in this version, but they are in the plan, and so we'll see, you know, what happens there. Okay. I mean, I don't know. I mean, do you want to – I'm kind of traveling on about rules because that's what I do. I mean, being privileged enough to be, like, you know, co-designer to Barry and being able to put my rules in a Barry game already geeks me out crazily. But just forgive me if I'm rattling on. Well, you're good. You are good, Steve. Like, we appreciate you talking about that stuff. Yeah. You know, one thing – like I said, Barry has a ton of games. Gorgar. He designed Barakor, like you talked about. Joust, like the legendary Joust. But not Taxi, Travis Murray.
    36:01
    No! Not Taxi, not Tiger. No, no, no. But how many games... So you've alluded to at least four of Barry's games that have been referenced in this game. Can you kind of give us a rough idea how many of his games are... I can give you the answer. The answer is 11. I would say 12, but I'm not really like, it's a 2-in-1 so I'm saying 11 you know I don't want to say because the 12 is kind of a stretch because it's the same idea but across multiple barrier games so it's kind of one so at Texas Football Festival I brought up a spreadsheet and I hid all 11 in there and had been trying to guess which ones they were and they got 9 of them with some clues. They got nine of them. I gave them some clues of course, but yeah. There would be 11 because there are others that are not on the play field, but you have to play the game to find one.
    37:08
    I alluded to one, which will depend on how well you do in the game. That's not going to be on the play field. That's in rules.
    37:17
    I don't know if I want to... Well, I think it might be fun to talk about this one. I'll give one more. It'll be a little bit obvious to people who play it, maybe. Okay, so I'm talking about the whole mini screen thing, right? And the mini screen has the recipe value and the multi-ball jackpot always sitting there in your face. It's the base screen. Okay. If nothing else is happening, like a mode or whatever, it's those two big numbers looking at you, right? Always asking if you're going to go for it now or now. Right. So basically what it's doing is that you're building value in that multiple jackpot with your recipe values or every shot, every shot you make to cook your food for the parking contest. You're adding value to that to that multiple jackpot. Right. So it's that number, that multiple jackpot that you take into the multiple. It's your decision when you start it. That is your base value. okay so if you start at two million and i come up after you and i'm like no wait i'm going to try to start at two and a half million because my number's going to be better and that's the base value it's going to go up from there it's just sort of like ascending if you've seen the game like you've seen this little bit of who wants to be a millionaire ladder going up right it's it starts at whatever that base number is, right? And that's under your control. Like, don't drain it or else you lose some. You know, it's a classic mystery board stuff that should be engaged, right?
    38:51
    But it's about that number and how well you've been cooking your food, right, without draining, and you can decide when you're going to start your journey up the ladder. And it's that number that starts counting up that ladder. And that ladder, the way the ladder works, is a reference to a very, um, and how, and how it works is a reference rules wise to a very, it's one of my favorite multi balls ever. Um, so, um, I don't want to go any further. We want to leave it as a spoiler for people that figure it out, but you know, it is, it is a, uh, it is a reference directly to, to a very, it's just that you, OK, instead of instead of accepting the values that this multiple gives you, it's whatever you put in, whatever what you bring at the table. So so I bring in five million and you say, no, I've got three point five million in my pocket. I'm going to try to work six million. OK, let's go. Don't die. Don't die.
    39:57
    But make sure you actually start to multi so that you can start going up the ladder and try to take me down. So, yeah, but that would be an example of a very game that's not on the play field. Okay. So how many modes are in the game, or planned, anyway, and how many multi-balls are planned for the game?
    40:22
    All right, so there are nine modes in there in front of you on that little octothorpe on the bottom there. The reason why the octothorpe is there, I mean, you know, the reason why it looks like that. And then you have the sub-wizard mode, which is being worked on, which will happen at halftime. That's a multiball. You have the pitman's multiball, the main multiball. You have the side dish multiball, which is the drop targets. You have the wizard mode, depending on which one you get. What else? What other modes? Well, there's other ones that are planned. I don't want to promise, but would make sense. Like, you know, if I had a question, hey, there's nine modes. What happens if you beat all nine modes?
    41:13
    It's just like a leading the witness type question, you know? I know that would be one. But, you know, but but say the reason why you have that on the bottom is like, well, what if I beat these three? What if I beat these three brothers? Right. So what if I beat these eight modes in this particular way? So those wouldn't be modes, those would be like perks and stuff, but more of the tournament aspect of it when you get to it. So that's more of the level two, like once you get used to the level one stuff of beating a mode, it's like, you know what, I'm going to try to go after the left column specifically for a reason. He's like, no, I'm going to go after the right column or I'm going after the middle for a reason. So yeah. So you can, so I'm looking forward to some people putting together some craziness where they get some like triple, double, 4X super and they think it's an ice part, not dope. Like, nope, allow it. It's correct. Pay the money. You did everything right and you didn't train. I have to pay you. That is correct. You have won the barbecue contest. Well done, sir. Well done, sir.
    42:36
    So I've done the math kind of. So if you guys started this in August of 2021, and it's finally showing in February of 2024, it's roughly about 30 months from start to finish. Was this kind of pushed around in production schedule because of Barry's untimely passing, or was this kind of just always the game plan? Was this game never supposed to come to fruition? Like, it just seems like there's a lot of time. I was doing this game.
    43:02
    You're like, I'm doing it. Okay. But we're also working on stuff. Like I'm here, hey Steve, go work with Bahala now. Let's make this better. Oh, okay.
    43:15
    Hey, let's go, let's meet Galactic Tank. Okay, do Galactic Tank, okay, help work with that. Okay, good, yeah, okay, good, good. And while I'm doing that, by the way, I have pages and pages of rules and writings and working with Barry and stuff also So you can do more than one thing It just that things take time Oh yeah definitely Things definitely take time And you know, and it's just, it's, and now was a good time. So yeah, I mean, in between working on this and updating and testing Galactic, updating and testing Legends of Valhalla, getting some more tournament level coding in there with Frank, who did a great job there, working with him. So it's just activity. I mean, things take time.
    44:01
    I mean, I don't know the exact point of working with when and what, but I've been here all the time. You know, all the stuff about timelines and drama and rumors and all that stuff, I've been awakened to all that recently. I'm like, what? Okay, I just wanted to make a great game that Barry and I were working on.
    44:21
    What's happening here? What is this? you're making honestly looking at this game you're making the other designers jealous because this is quite the tribute to Barry this is a really cool I'm hoping you know I didn't want to make you know I didn't want to make them jealous because I mean I'm a super rookie you know I was trying to learn the best I can from Barry you know and all that but yeah I was at that point I was like okay what can I do how can I pull this off how can I get everyone on board everyone was on board and I was like of course it's Barry you know how could I get as much Barry-ness in here but yet not too obvious you know like it's not like you have to work through it in order to see this is if you don't know Space Shuttle yes Space Shuttle is in the yard but there's a reason why Space Shuttle is in the yard yeah right next to the spicy sauce yeah there's a reason why it's there pointing to the Space Shuttle drop targets but if you don't know it's like okay why is a space shuttle there? Well, you'll find out. If you're good enough, you'll find out. You know, but... Go to the barbecue challenge on the moon, maybe? Yeah, maybe. I mean, where are we going with this multiball? I mean, we're pulling up this ladder. I don't know. Where are we going?
    45:42
    I mean, where are we going? But, yeah, so I'm glad it has come out this way. I'm glad it looks the way it does. I mean, it was great. I'm glad that things came together. As far as rules of integration and design, I'm glad I was able to represent this way. And yeah, I don't know what else to say. I'll just keep saying stuff, because I'm just very happy that it has come out. And American people did it. The team and everybody was working with me doing this and pulled this off. I mean, that's, yeah. I'm just very excited, appreciative, and grateful, really.
    46:28
    And just grateful that this happened and that it's out and people can play it. And so now I can get, you know, criticism, positive, negative, which I'm looking forward to to see, okay, because that's how you learn. You know, okay, I'm learning how the game is not doing a good job teaching the player. You know, I'm going to work on that. You know, I'm learning how things are good, things are not. You know, people aren't able to see this yet. People are seeing this. Okay, right. People are going for this. Boy, I can do it. So part of the things that I was looking forward to is this process. You know, it's like, yes, it's out. So now I can see, okay, what's good, what's not. Let's see it. All right. So.
    47:04
    Okay, tell me about the different editions and why should someone consider buying the limited edition and what's the target audience for the standard edition? Why is there only a hundred one? Well, I'm not a salesman, so I'll do my best. Sure, sure. but you can at least fill us in. Yeah. I know that the limited edition has the side lighting. We call that the aural lighting, whatever marketing term we're using for it. But, you know, I like that lighting because it's from Galactic Tank Force, right? And so it makes the game look good, too. And we get to use some of the lighting there to sync up with light animations and stuff. That's really cool.
    47:45
    I think the limited edition has the plate on it, you know, it's limited to 100. It is limited to 100.
    47:55
    Okay? Nice. So it's really limited. It's not like 5,000 limited. That's what they told me. That's what everyone told me. I'm like, good, okay, good. Thank you. Just whatever the number is. Okay.
    48:10
    What else is limited? Let's see. because it's the powder-coated legs or something. I'm forgetting some stuff. It's on there. There's a sheet. Okay. Okay, Steve, I got you covered here. Okay. It has the red powder-coated side armor. Yeah. It has the new Aura lighting system pre-installed. It has the magic glass. It has a shaker motor. It has a knocker. It has a limited BBQ cooking apron and a limited edition plaque. So that's what it is. The Classic Edition, and that's at $8,495. The Classic Edition is $6,995. And obviously it has all the same gameplay, I'm assuming. Everything, everything. The gameplay is the same, 100%. That must be the thing. I can't have it. Yeah. I can't not do that. Okay. Okay, but that's actually not, like, for $1,500, like, if you want to upgrade to the Limited, You're getting powder coating, which, by the way, if you do it afterwards, about $300. A shaker motor, you're already looking at a couple hundred bucks. A knocker, if you put that in afterwards. Magic glass and the RSS. So you're basically just paying for the upgrades, but really you're getting them all at a reasonable price. I actually don't know because that was also part of my goal. I mean, you know, one of the goals was to make it a game that many people can play. And so it being affordable or as affordable as we can make it helps with that. You know? So I know, yeah, when you're a designer, you're supposed to over-design and let them cut stuff or whatever. And so then.
    50:01
    I don't want to prevent people from playing this. I mean, I hope it shows up in a lot of routes. I hope it shows up in a lot of barbecue places. You know, let's get some huge barbecue places like the Hard Eight. I went to the Hard Eight at Texas finally. Finally, I'm going to go to the Hard 8. Everybody talks about the Hard 8. Yeah, that's the reason why everybody talks about the Hard 8. Yeah, it's good. I believe it. So, yeah, let's get one at the Hard 8. Let's get one at all these barbecue places around here. I want to see them in San Antonio on my old stocking grounds. And I was working for Voldemort. You know, yeah, I'm really hoping it's easy to buy, easy to route, easy to maintain, and all that stuff that I hope will help.
    50:44
    So one question I had too is, is this, is Berrio's running the same board set and stuff that Galactic Tank Force and the other? It's the new set, yeah. It's the new board set. The new board set. Yeah, it's that.
    50:59
    Yes, it is that, yes. Awesome. Okay, where are the next places you guys are going? What shows are you guys going to be at? So if people want to drop by and say hi. We've got Midwest Gaming Classic. I know I'm going there. We've got a seminar there. I'm definitely going there because the tournament's there. So I'm going to go to the Midwest Championship there.
    51:24
    Let's see. Pim Brewery, they'll be there. The game will be at Pentastic. I'm going up to Pentastic. It's a third circuit event, so I'm going there for that tournament. But, you know, we'll be doing a seminar there. Me and Ryan will be there for that.
    51:40
    What else? There's nothing else on this board that I know, but I think it's somehow right outside this door. I can probably look at it and see where they are. But I know about Midwest Game Classic, Pembroke, and I know about those because there are literal markings on this board as to how many games are going there. I'm just looking over their heads. So I know about that. But we'll definitely be at Midwest, looking forward to that. And I will definitely be at Fantastic, looking forward to that. especially going back east, you know, seeing some of the boys that have seasons last year. You know, some of the New England boys back there, you know, loving to get some of the New York boys coming over. Yeah.
    52:23
    And I'm assuming it's going to be at Expo because we're hoping to come to Expo. Yeah, of course, 40th anniversary. Yeah, the big hullabaloo, the big shindig, the big 40th anniversary, all the tours, all the majesty, all the pomp and the circumstance. and the barbecue. Yes, we will have that. Yes, definitely. So the question everyone wants to know, I don't know if you can answer this or not, but how do I get my hands on these sweet Burial Barbecue Challenge aprons? Like, is this... It says limited edition. I don't know if it says... As far as I know, the answer is order a limited edition, but that's as far as I know. But, I mean, if Dave were here, maybe he'd be able to provide a more complete answer to that. But as far as I've been told, is like the orange delivery edition.
    53:12
    Okay, you're also wearing a pretty sweet hat. That's a pretty sweet hat that you have on. Finally, let's get some swag. Finally, a shirt. You got a shirt, too. Look at that. I know you're already keeping a shirt, right? On the store, $20. Size small, 3XL. I'm surprised I remember that from the day. I think the logo should be lower, though, So on my belly, it expands as you eat. So when it looks like this? Yeah.
    53:43
    But, yeah, we're getting our hats going. We're getting our shirts going. It will be on the site, AmericanPitball.com. Look out for that. It's not already posted already. We've been having some very recent meetings about getting those on there and getting them on there and circulating everything. So, yeah, these will be available. And I love this shirt. I will wear it too much. I will wear it too many times. You know, other people saw, in Texas, saw a few people saying, like, Galactic Tank Force hoodies and stuff. That was another shout out. We got a call, people were like, yeah, we love those Galactic Tank Force hoodies. You know, those are going to be for sale and day-naming, you know. So there was a lot of saying, look out for the site for some Galactic Tank Force stuff as well. So they love those hoodies. As far as the hat, sure, it will be sold. I'm sure it's already posted, I think, for $20, all the TX.
    54:43
    Nice. Awesome. Well, Stephen, we thank you for coming on. If someone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way to get a hold of you? I am funwithbonus at gmail.com. You can email me there. If I get it, I'm going to solve the spam. But I am fun with bonus on most internet platforms, especially Facebook and Instagram and Twitter X. Do we use Twitter X anymore? Whatever.
    55:12
    So, yeah. So I am fun with bonus.com. Visit the site. I need to post more there. How about that? I just haven't had a lot of time. So I use Facebook a lot and Instagram to help you out there. Awesome. That's me.
    55:26
    See you at the show. Cut off soon. We'll talk more with you. And yeah. Sounds good. Thank you so much for having me on, man. It's so exciting. How exciting it is to talk about this game. It's like,
    55:40
    I'm so grateful that this happened. I am so, so happy and grateful that this happened. I don't know what else to say. I'm just happy to see someone play and having fun and everything. well we're looking forward to checking out in person we couldn't make it to Texas but we're definitely making it to Expo and definitely looking forward to feedback anybody who's played it I want all the feedback and as long as it's constructive I want all the feedback please because that's how we learn through feedback we receive feedback already and we're working on it there's a bunch of stuff that's going in right now to get the feedback.
    56:26
    Look out for further updates. And speaking of swag, if you want to get Loser Kid swag, go to silverballswag.com slash Loser Kid. We have shirts. We want to thank Steven Strom. Scott saw him over the weekend, and he was sporting our new Loser Kid Attacks pinball shirt. Yeah, I mean the Loser Kid from Mars pinball shirt. Yeah, that one.
    56:49
    And if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. you can find us on facebook instagram x or twitter whatever floats your boat there we're also on youtube and on twitch hit up subscribe like do all the fancy little things even comment we're getting plenty of comments i appreciate everyone that's uh commenting even on episodes from like a year and a half ago like why is there no gameplay footage to pulp fiction here well this was an interview that they released like yeah before the game was yeah any whatever but thanks again and if you want to watch our beautiful faces you can look at YouTube my parting thought is I'm hungry now I want to go get some barbecue me too there's a place around here called Big A's near here I think I'm going there I'm going home awesome thanks Steve, appreciate it thank you, appreciate it guys, thank you so much
    57:51
    Thank you.