[music] All right. And we are well, we're not live. I was going to say we're live. [laughter] We discussed about going live, but we're going to get distracted and probably end up dragging this out. So, we are not live, but we are recording. Uh, thank you very much everyone for obviously uh tuning in. Kerry, thank you very much. I know it's late over there. I really appreciate it. Uh, we have Kerry Hardy. For those that don't know Kerry Hardy, [snorts] I find that hard to believe. Um, I don't even know how you go to the shops these days, mate. >> No, it's only pinball. That's the good thing about it is that I'm only pinball famous. >> There you go. Um, I got Kerry on because Kerry has played the two, well, three games that have been announced this week. And what a week. I got a we got a message from Kerry in his Patreon uh le chat. If you're not on Patreon, jump on Patreon. support Kerry. Um he says we we better push our meeting till Wednesday because we'll have lots to talk about. [laughter] Pretty pretty cryptic, but I understand why now. Um yeah, what a week huh? >> Yeah, it's it's been uh a very uh last the last seven days have been well, not maybe not seven days, but definitely the last four or five days have been pretty much non-stop for me. And um the thing is with the the multimmorphic that was actually a couple of weeks ago, but I've been doing other stuff along with work that I didn't really have time to >> get into the editing of it of the video that I did for it and everything. So it has been a pretty hefty last seven days when it comes to like having to edit. >> Yeah, I was going to ask that because I was like, how did you manage to obviously because you work full-time, have a family, I was like, how did you get there and then to barrels because obviously I you went to both. So, that's pretty pretty intense. Um, we'll cover Bonjovi first cuz obviously it only dropped a few hours ago. Um, and obviously P3 has two titles. Um, we it was so funny when this rumor started about Bon Joy, it it was amazing the the amount of negativity that was around this theme. And I think there's elements there that, you know, music pins, especially for me, I don't like music pins that are essentially a jukebox in a box. Like I like the ones like Foo Fighters that have a genre and a theme like sci-fi, Iron Maiden is Egyptian. Uh Rush is time travel. Those I can I can, you know, deal with. Um, so I was like, "Oh, you know, I really hope Bon Joy they were going to go down this western route maybe because obviously he done, you know, um, Dead or Alive and whatever that western film was called." Um, and in the end I was like, you know, surely Barrels of Fun, you know, we're probably spoiled because of the themes they've done. And I think that's probably the issue here. I think people saw Labyrinth, Winchester, June, and was like, we're going to get another killer theme from them. So, I think they were probably a little bit uh expecting, you know, another killer theme, not a music pin. Um, do you agree kind of with that? >> Uh, it's one of those where and people ask me, you know, what the next themes are from manufacturers and there are themes that I'm aware of, but when it comes to to barrels, I I honestly do not know. like David uh he's one of those that likes to keep the the cards very close to his chest >> and it's one of those where I think we're over the last couple of years him and I have are building up a trust where you know maybe eventually he'll let me in but as of right now he still likes to keep everything to himself which honestly to an extent I I'm I completely on board with because the moment it this is just how it works out but a lot of the times whenever ever I do get information, it seems I'm not the only one that gets it >> and then someone else like starts leaking it and it gets around and it looks like I'm the one, at least in my head, I'm like, man, they're going to think that I'm the one that leaked the information kind of thing. So, it it kind of it's a relief when I don't know. >> So, whenever there stuff starts getting out and about and everything, I I don't have to go, well, I I know that they know it's not me because they didn't tell me anything kind of thing. So that's kind of how it was for barrels in this launch is that I didn't know either, but I was aware of the Bon Joby rumor. >> So it was like, man, I'm kind of hoping it's not Bon Joby because I'm not really a fan of their music. >> And it's one of those things where I got in there and when I got in there, this is how soon it was. I didn't get there until Thursday of last week. >> And I I So when I get there, you know, like, all right, you have a seat, you know, and he plays the trailer that everybody saw today. And you know when you play a video on your computer it kind of shows the title and like white letters of the file and so when it boots up I see you know like bof bon joy and in my head I'm like ah damn I'm like it is Bon Joy kind of thing and then we watched the trailer and I was like I was like I was like okay all right you know so then uh then eventually when I got to play the game though that's when things kind of like got better from there and it's one of is where I think when people first see this game and they're seeing the art and maybe a little bit of gameplay, maybe my featureette, and they're not like, you know, I don't want to use the word sold on it, but if they're not excited about it, it's like I completely understand. It's it's like it's like I get you, but it's one of those when you get in front of the game and you play it, that's when it all comes together. You hear all the audio. You feel how the game feels. You get to do that lower left flipper, that crowd surf shot, which honestly is uh probably one of my my favorite shots in the game. >> And every time that ball was going down the left out lane, I got excited. I don't get excited about outlane drains, but whenever it went to the left out lane, I would get excited. But yeah, when it comes to just like the the feedback, this is definitely a very mixed bag. And if from my perspective at least, just kind of perusing a little bit of pinside and seeing what's going on with Facebook and other chats, it's I almost want to say it leans probably more towards the negative. I mean, what do you think? Is it more negative or positive? >> Yeah, I have to say out of all the launches I've seen in the last, let's say, 12 months, I think this one's probably had the most negativity attached to it. and going through the chats, Discords, Patreon. Yes, I would say it's like 70% people going, um, no, not interested. Can't believe they made it. The transl artwork is terrible, which we'll touch on. Um, you know, why would Barrels do a game like this after doing Labyrinth June and Winchester, right? Um, and I think David hit it very well in your um, uh, episode that you made that went um, up today. I always think cuz I'm in front of you. Um, >> but uh, you know, he said he's about making experiences, right? Whether it doesn't matter what genre that is and for him it's he wants to create something that people feel like they're immersed in that. Uh, and he done that very well with Labyrinth June and Winchester. Um, I guess people were probably sport with those themes thinking that they're doing really quirky kind of different themes and maybe we're expecting uh Dungeon Call of Carl or um you know Fifth Element or something like or you know there was a rumor going around that it was going to be 300 um as well the movie with um Gerald Butler etc. So, there was that disappointment. And I think people there probably is a bit of fatigue with music pins. Maybe because they're not that kind of enjoyable or they're a bit messy, you know, like with G&R, as much as I love playing G&R, I just want to listen to the music, but every time you hit a shot, the music gets interrupted like it's being scratched by a DJ type of thing, especially when you hit that spinning disc, right? And it's kind of like um >> you know, that's not something that >> I don't know. I guess there is that fatigue. Uh and maybe people are just hoping for something better, you know. Um and when you're throwing around themes like Goonies and all that type of stuff, right? Um people are just going, "Oh, I really was hoping for something else." Um I think once you watch like this video of Carl and yes, Carl makes everything look easy. Uh and you look at the layouts. I've spoken to uh Jamie who's played it yourself. Everyone has said this is probably like their best shooter and it has that 90s feel. World Cup soccer. Um, you know, approachable. I know you love that word, but like that approachable [laughter] uh feel, that upper flipper, you know. Um, I know David spoke about that originally they didn't even want to put four flippers in this. They only wanted two. They had to because of geometry, etc. But watching this stream especially uh and listening to the way that and Jeff from Dirty Pool uh who I'm repping his outfit um you know I think the way he does audio in games is extremely unique and I think it's a uh a secret weapon for barrels. Um, not that he's exclusive to them, I don't think, but um, you know, his spinner sounds, the way that even the code and the sounds work together in this from what we saw um, I I think it's like a really good package. Uh, and even me, you know, when I heard it was Bonjovi and then I I saw some leaks, I was like, "Oh, man." Uh, I was a bit bummed out. But, you know, as your video came out, their video came out, Serge's video came out, uh, Dirty Pool did a great video explanation, you CC more and more, you know, I think we're all probably a bit guilty of jumping the gun a little bit. I I just feel unfortunately the transl artwork doesn't help the argument here. It's it's one of the it's one of those things that like you know when the leaks came out and I get messages from people and they're like dude and they send me the picture and this is like this is me just like I've already obviously played and seen the game and everything and then the leaked image of the transl comes out and I'm getting sent this and they're like dude look at this and in my head I'm like yeah I agree it like whenever I first saw like the game up close and got to walk around it and I definitely got that ' 90s vibe. It does remind me a little bit of like Data East style and that's what they were going for. And after my time on it before leaving, you know, you know, as of any other manufacturer, they want to get my feedback to kind of get an idea of what kind of, you know, the what the people out there are going to say about the game more than likely. I told him, I was like, I'll tell you right now, your translite is the weak spot on this game. I was like I was like, I don't like it. And then but he specified that they have an alternate >> and uh and the alternate in his opinion I haven't seen it. I honestly have not. But he's like and the alternate in his opinion is much better. So it seems like he was kind of on board with not really being in love with that original trans back glass either. >> Yeah. Um I don't know. Sometimes I kind of think it's like even when I watch a really bad film, I kind of go at what point did directors edit this, watch it, and go, >> I'm happy with this, [laughter] >> you know? I I'm I'm meant to be speaking to David tonight, I think. And I I will ask him. I have a pretty good relationship with David where I can kind of have the jab and go, "David, what were you thinking with that translite, dude?" Um, and he'll laugh and he'll go, "Look, you know, we're time constraints and maybe that's, you know, we thought it was going to be okay or whatever it was, right?" Mhm. >> But, you know, and then there's a criticism that they've obviously got way too much Winchester powder coating color uh left over because uh you know, I doubt they're powder coating their own games anyway. But, you know, the color looks similar, but I don't think it is. >> Definitely understand how people would see it and go, "Oh, it's just like Winchester." But once you get up close to it, it's not the same. >> It's got much more of a uh what was the term I was looking at? Like cuz it's like a got a chameleon look to it. kind of like how like if you look at something that's got a layer of oil on it, you get a little bit of purple on the light whenever at a certain angle and that's what this kind of powder coat's got to it. I'm not sure what the term for that type of uh um reflectivity is on there, but it's kind of got a a weird tone to it that you can only really see up close. And I tried to get that whenever I was getting close to the lock down bar on my featurette to kind of show it off. I don't know if I was able to pull it off or not though, but it's definitely very similar there. I I can definitely see people giving the parallel to Winchester on that, but I definitely want to kind of like uh go back to the audio package that that you were talking about earlier and this game uh along with Jeff being involved obviously and then the music is there obviously, but something that people just don't know yet and haven't experienced yet is the sound package hardwarewise. They've got a brand new amplifier in there that's beefy as all hell. They've got a brand new beefier subwoofer and the subwoofer is encased in a box that you probably watch the the Jeff Dirty Pool video where he kind of goes over all the new additions and everything. I It's very rare that I can turn the volume up on a pinball machine and have it on full blast without there being static or cutting out. But that was not the case with this game is that it would be so loud that it was honestly just so loud it was hurting my ears, but I wasn't getting any kind of like like fluttering out. It was just so damn loud that I had to turn it down because I was fearing of hurting my damn ears. The the hardware for audio is I don't want to say top tier or top-notch, but I'm just saying it's probably one of the best that's in the industry right now when it comes to just what you're going to be getting in the game from the factory. Yeah, it was I mean I've I work in audio. Uh for me, I've never understood why subwoofers are not enclosed considering that that's how you buy them. When you buy a sub for your cinema or your hi-fi system or your car, they're enclosed and it makes a big difference. Uh which Jeff explains in his video. Um so yeah, you can definitely and I think a game like this needs it especially for theme immersion. Um the uh but yeah, look, I mean, Jeff is easily probably the the most talented audio guy in pinball. Um and it'll be I think a while before we see someone take that role off him um or that title off him. Uh let's talk about the heart mech. Looks a lot like the Rush uh time. Well, it doesn't look like cuz obviously it's a heart, but it kind of behaves a little bit like the rush time machine where it grabs the ball. It's got the ramp. This is three levels. goes in up and on the third wire form. Um, seems to work pretty effortlessly. I mean, we're watching it now in that um, video. Seems to work really well. >> Mhm. It's it's I wouldn't say it's 100%. Uh, there's still definitely some little quirks here and there that I would like to see some improvements on. I made comments about certain things that I'm like, might want to change this or make an adjustment on this. There was times I'm not sure. I haven't watched the gameplay footage here cuz it might have been just the game that I was playing. But the game that I played sometimes when shooting underneath the heart, it would bounce out of there. It was like bouncing off the metal and coming back up sometimes, which was a little unsatisfying. So, I'm kind of curious if it ever happens on Carl's game here. So maybe it might have been just the game that I had or maybe they need to put something down there to kind of uh dole or dampen the bounce back on that because it's very disappointing whenever you get it in there and it bounces back. It's like, oh, come on, man. But the up and down and the magnet inside there seems to work effortlessly on that regard. >> There's some cool mechs. I mean, even that captive ball where you you you use the captive ball through the spinner through the the loop loop. Um, I thought that was pretty cool. Um, there's I think you could there's two two ways you can lock the balls. Uh, it flows. I mean, what I mean, Carl makes everything flow, even a game that's a brickfest, but >> it's I think it's a better shooter definitely than Winchester. And sorry, Carl, if you're watching this or anything, but that's one of the things I told David. I was like I was like, David, I definitely enjoy shooting this better than I did Winchester. And and when I go there and even when I talk to you guys and I tell it how it is, if I don't like how a game shoots or if there's something I don't like about it, I'm going to tell you about it and or if there's something some portion of the game that I don't like and I I've said it to David like the back glass I don't like. Uh the bouncing ball out of there I didn't care much for. Uh trying to think if there was anything else that I mentioned commented on, but I want to say it probably just some code needed to be done. Oh, audio. When it comes to audio, I even I even messaged Jeff when I was there. I was like, "Dude, Jeff, you gotta >> you got to crank up that spinner sound effect." I was like, "I can't I can't hear it." I was like, "That spinner sound effect is doing something, I guess, but I can barely hear it." So, uh and literally overnight he made an update and a change and a bunch of other little things. And we played the new uh beta code like the next day because I was there Thursday and a part of Friday. >> Yeah. Well, definitely. Especially when a concert pin there's so much noise and music and sound effects happening. Uh you you will lose I was worried about it. I was like we're going to lose um Jeff's kind of sound effect cuz he's not doing the music because obviously the music comes from the band's assets, but you know um his tweaks and what gives games heart and soul is the sound effects and the the atmosphere it creates and I was like man how are we going to get this when you've got concert music playing? Um, I do like that you get the choice of playing the song. Uh, I like that that doesn't, you know, change the scoring. I know Dave said that the scoring is going to be pretty extreme on this to make you feel like a champion. I think Carl in the first like one minute was already on 300 mil. Um, >> so I like that especially for kids and like you know a lot of females love Bonjovi. You know, maybe this will bring new people. So if they play and then you've got like dialed in or Ninja Turtle scoring where you've literally worked your butt off for 10 minutes and you've only got, you know, 100,000. Um >> yeah, that's kind of how it was the first day I played it on Thursday. He was Oh, there there was that crowd serve shot right there. So sweet. But like that that but that was the thing is that we played the game for a good while on Thursday evening and he was playing a really good ball going. It seemed like he was doing really good at the end of his ball. It was only like a couple of million. I was like, "Really? That's all you got?" kind of thing. And he's like, "That's what I'm talking about." He's like, "I want this score to blow up kind of thing. I want to feel good about it kind of." And so the next day the new code came in and sure enough the scores the scoring was adjusted and so you got a lot more higher numbers and made it made you feel a little bit better. I'm not going to lie, it did make it feel like you did accomplish more with a higher score. >> Yeah. Um I want to touch on that uh outlane save flipper. I think that's a such a great I'm I'm a sucker for like even in Foo Fighters where Jack put in the post and you save the ball. It's so satisfying, >> dude. I'm telling you, this is one of It's weird. I get it that people like, "Really? You're going to highlight the freaking this shot?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm telling you, every time you make that shot and you put the ball back into the game like that, it feels so good. It's a satisfying damn shot kind of thing." Is it required? Because I I'm serious. You can build it up where you have multiple attempts to save the ball. And I watched David at one point in time do like three or four flips. He had that thing charged up like four times and he screwed up all four times. I was like I was like, "Dude, you had four tries and you kept hitting the target, hit it too late or too soon, but when you make it right up that ramp and it goes back into the playfield, it just it is very satisfying. It doesn't get old. I don't think it'll get old." >> No. And I think they're going there's a little standup post next to it and I think they're talking about putting something in the code where that might give you more time to be there because apparently you can cradle the ball up. >> Um, and that's kind of cool, you know, at the end of the day if you're, you know, you got a few attempts to do it, that's great. Um, you know, so I think did I miss it? I think I must have missed it. Where is it? It's going to be hard to find it now. Um, yeah, look, I think something that's satisfying and the flippers, uh, we didn't touch on it. We quickly will before we move on. >> A little bit smaller. >> They're a little bit smaller, but you're actually able to trap up on this game. For those that own like a freaking Barrels of Fun game, especially on Winchester, for me, I felt like a good portion of my time was trying to gain control of the ball just so I could like plan out. I was like, "My god, I just It seems like the flippers were just not they needed some Viagra. I I don't want like, you know, um got style where they go completely vertical pretty much, but I wanted the the ability to trap up and on this game you definitely could trap up much easier than the previous titles. >> Yeah, look, I think it's something that, you know, it's satisfying. It's feels like you've achieved something. I mean, the little ramp, the whole crowd surfing, it suits the theme, right? Like, um I think it's great. And I think the fact that um the the game is approachable, feels kind of like a '90s game that essentially anyone can play. Uh yeah, I mean, you know, sorry Carl, if that means it shoots better, it shoots better. Carl was always going to design anything that's more challenging just because of how good of a player he is. Um but I think, you know, seeing what they've done here, >> uh is definitely growing on me. Um, especially cuz I was a big, you know, as much as I love BonJovi music, I mean, my wife's got all the bands. We, the music is on all the time when we're in the car. My daughter who's 11 likes the music. So, you know, it's it's a it's a great family theme. Uh, and it appeals to it's been around for 80s, 90s, 2000s. You know, I don't think there was ever a period of me growing up that Bonjovi wasn't a part of our life on um we have a channel in Australia called Rage, which has music video clips on on the weekends and stuff. It was always on. Um so it's a it's a technically a really good theme, but I think people obviously have been spoiled were expecting, you know, something like Goonies or 300 or Fifth Element or something quirky, unique. In theory, this is quirky, unique, too. Um, >> and you know, but there's always been push back, right? Like when when um uh Iron Maiden was first announced, there was uproar about that. There was uproar about Rush, especially Rush, because nobody even knew the damn band. you know, so like anything, you know, there's going to be criticism, but look, overall, I think it's a it's a fantastic package, and if they change that translite, um, you know, I think wait till people play it this Friday at um, Southern Fried, uh, you'll start seeing comments online of people going, I've played it. I think it's great, >> which is what happened with June as Yeah, I can't wait to see the turnaround whenever Southernther Fried Gaming happens and people get their hands on it and get the chance to play it. But it's like when we talk about theme and then people get upset that it's Bon Joy or it's not, why didn't they do this band? Why didn't they do this? Why don't they do this? And it's like I completely understand that because you know that if it's not the band or not the movie that you're wanting, you know that it's going to be another probably six months or longer till you wait to see if maybe the next game is a theme that immediately speaks to you. But something that I've noticed about myself over the last year is that I have grown less and less uh basically like focused on what the theme is >> and more on is the game fun does does is it overall and I think it started with me with Harry Potter honestly. It's like I heard Harry Potter I'm like I don't care. I don't I don't care for the movies. I don't care for Harry Potter. I don't I mean whatever. But then [snorts] I played the game and I was like damn I it's a hella fun game and it's just like I mean I'm still not a Harry Potter fan but I'll talk greatness about that damn game kind of thing. And so it goes the same way same way with Bon Joby is like I'm not a big fan of it. Yes I do know their music and yes I was singing along the entire damn time I was playing the game. >> But overall the game Yeah. But overall the game >> shot great. I mean, I'm just like, you can hate the theme or you can hate the bad loss all you want to play it. >> Yeah. Give it a shot. >> And I think that's the common the common thing we always say, and I think we've had this conversation anytime a new game comes out, like just play the game first before you have an opinion. I mean, you cannot like the IP. I think people have to be very cautious how they deliver, especially comments online. I mean, it's we say this every uh have to remember that there are a team of humans that made this game that read your comments as well. Um, and theme isn't for everyone, sure. But play the game first because, you know, everyone shout on Predator. They played it and everyone I speak to loves Predator. Uh, is it perfect? No. Is it clunky? Yes. But it's fun and is atmospheric. Same with Galactic Tank Force. >> You know, everyone that comes over and plays Galactic Tank Force, they love it. They're very quick to criticize it, but they love it. It gets played more than uh Pokemon for argument sake. So, you know, it's one of the it's one of those things that um yeah, I think people just need to be a bit more open-minded. And that leads us on to good segue to multimmorphics dungeon crawl car. Um which we'll move on to. Um that is, you know, again, a theme that everyone was like, what is this? And not realizing that it's the books have been around since 2021. Um and there's eight of them. Um you know, it's probably the first time that we've gotten a theme based on a book. um that hasn't had a movie or a TV show out. Obviously, eventually it will. Um but you know, it's sci-fi meets fantasy meets quirky kind of fourth dimension uh with the guy that breaks fourth walls. Uh he kind of reminds me, if you listen to the audio books, the character kind of reminds me of um the guy from the Simpsons. Um, uh, I can't remember the character's name, but he's kind of got that, um, not like Jock me. >> Are you sure it's the Simpsons and you're not thinking of the Family Guy? Cuz I think if you're thinking of the same guy, >> I'm sorry. Family Guy. Family guy. >> So, you're talking about the guy in the wheelchair. You're talking about Yeah, dude. We're We're right there. Sympatico. Cuz whenever I first started listening to the first book, he had kind of this tiny tone to his voice. And I'm like I'm like what is this gonna be all the time? I don't know if I can handle an entire book series. >> But as the book progresses, literally like I said, I'm only halfway through the first book. But even to up to the halfway point that's kind of like faded away. He doesn't have much more of that kind of talking whenever he's mentioning. So it got better. It's definitely eased away. So it's it's better. But I can understand why you get that that parallel right there cuz I was right there with you. I'm like that sounds a lot like that guy's voice. But from what I'm hearing from people that have read the book series, it only gets better. And evidently, there's just a lot more. And I think it's one of those that if this initially, if you have like no knowledge of DECC, I am right there with you where you're like, why would I want this game? I I have no bond to it. I don't even know what it is. But you have to acknowledge that what they've done underneath the glass here >> is pretty freaking sweet. whether to take just throw the theme out and just hardware alone and how this game shoots is pretty damn cool. >> Yeah, look, I'm a pretty big ambassador of P3. I think Jerry has always every time evolved, evolved, evolved. You know, he went from getting criticism that there was nothing on the, you know, the bottom three quarters to portal extended to, all right, I'm going to chuck you even right next to the flippers. Um there there's a lot in this game and having the sculpts done as well now um is a great collab. The game looks amazing. Uh and even if you haven't looked at the IP uh or haven't seen figures artwork from the books, you look at this and you go, "Well, this looks fantasy. It looks appealing. um you know uh it's having I think an IP like this where ironically um it's the fact that the audio book the voice actor for the audio book is so good that it's probably one of the only books that's probably driven more people to the audio books than the books >> because everyone talks about his voice and his expressions and his um uh enthusias IASM with the characters and how much immersion it brings you into the genre. Um, and that's become an awesome asset for Jerry because and Multimorphic because obviously they've got him uh they've got that kind of following because I mean it's he's the first pin that's ever been announced at Comic-Con. >> Like >> you know that that was a >> definitely great marketing for him. I think it would have been because just merely showing the game and announcing it is like that's awesome kind of thing. But if he would have had a game there to really have people physically go up and look at and see and and I think that would have been top tier >> like from for pinball in general. >> Yeah. >> I mean I don't know. I'd like I'd like to ask Jerry, and I'm sure I'll talk to him soon, but you know, was the fact that the author kind of teased this a few weeks ago, announced it at Comic-Con, do you think maybe in the licensing agreement, you know, he's pretty proud of his IP that he would have said, I want to be the one that um announces this because it's mine. It's my baby. Right. >> I mean, Jerry, I asked Jerry whenever I saw the release at Pro for Comic-Con. I'm I'm like, "Dude, was this planned?" And he's like he's like, "Yes." He's like, he's basically it was an offer he couldn't refuse. It was like I guess they asked for permission and he was like, "Uh, yeah, I got kind of thing. Go ahead." Yeah, sure. I guess all gung-ho about it. >> Yeah. Look, I I I think it's a it's a fantastic theme for Pinball and I think with Jerry's screen, it obviously um really uh you can use that asset for the assets and stuff. It it would have been a lot of work cuz obviously there is no game, there is no TV show, there is no cartoon. uh they would have had to make everything from scratch. Um, sorry. And you know, it seems it looks presents really well. And man, that turning tone like that when I saw that, you know, I remember you had said in your Patreon that the first thing you said to Jerry was, "What the [ __ ] is that?" Right. >> And um, it's the first thing when I saw the photo that the author had posted up at Comic- Con, I was like, "That disc is huge." I said, "What the hell does that do?" Um, and it literally does everything right? >> Yeah, it does everything. Uh, I mean, if you name it, it does it. I mean, as as I got I It's pretty much does everything. And I I It's got a number of thing. Ball path, diverter. I mean, it's got an ejector on there. It could basically it turns into the missile thing like on Terminator 2 where at certain points of the game, it can go and launch and hit targets or whatever. It's uh Yeah, it's so close to the flippers though sometimes that it's like you've got to be very quick whenever it ejects back at you. So the disc underneath, right, has ball paths to help you make shots to the back of the game, right? And then there's stuff on top. >> It depends on the stuff on top is merely going to divert the ball to the left or to the right. >> Mhm. >> And now everything below is you've got targets, you've got uh I don't want to call it a scoop, but it basically can catch the ball. And when it catches the ball, the the disc can turn around and face upwards. And it depends on, you know, the mode that you're in for the game or whatever, but you can eject the ball towards the shot, but you also have this basically a habit trail or like a basically like a curvature portion of that disc that is utilized to make that upper right shot behind the uh right ramp, I want to say, or whatever that is up there. But you you utilize that. It's a very important mech. There's no just like, oh, disable the disc of insanity and you can play the game. like, "No, this is a very important thing. You you need this in order for the game to fully function." >> Yeah. And you saw it just there in that shot, the way it moves. Yeah. Look, I I like I said, I've been a huge ambassador for P3. I think their tech is impressive. It's different. The flippers feel better now than they ever did. The fact that if you had a a P3 from 5 years ago, you can upgrade your flippers free of charge. Um, you know, is it the type of game that you'd put on site? Maybe not. um because there's a lot to it and you know it it's different. It doesn't operate like a Stern or like a uh any other traditional pinball. Um I too I think if you've got a good team like Rachel and Kale for instance, if you had this sited, you probably could get away with it because if anything needed work, they'd probably be able to um jump straight on it. Um but this is a it's a popular theme. I mean, the amount of people at Comic- Con that love this book, dressed as the characters, were in that hall when they did the announcements um for the TV show, The Pinball, and the new book. Uh it's got a cult follow. It's got a massive following, right? So, this could bring people into the into the hobby. Uh and it seems to be from what I'm hearing from some of the chats, people have been given an order number. Like, it seems to be he sold like over 400 of them. I thought they were saying I mean at least I was hearing numbers that it was in the 600s. >> Yeah, probably not. >> But it's one of those where I was like I was like good good for Jerry. I mean he's been listening to feedback good and bad. He doesn't obviously it's been a lot of bad over the years and what people like and what they don't like. And I I think that's been the overound like you know only complaint about this is that it's it's on his platform. >> There's no complaints about the art. There's no complaints about the the mechs or anything like that or the voices or the audio. It's just like it's on this platform. And again, I would stress that people need to give it a play. And then if you still don't like it, okay, cool. I mean, but I think he's done a lot of changes to cater to those of us that would prefer a regular playfield pinball machine. He's made the playfield much more static while you're playing to make it look like regular inserts. The only time it goes into a full motion video is whenever the ball's being held and you're going into boss battle. >> Yeah. >> You know, so he's doing a lot of things to cater to those of us that prefer a standard pinball machine. >> And and like I said, I had Jerry sent one over to Australia for us to show at a couple shows and everyone I interviewed, I asked them, "Does this feel any different from a pinball?" And they all said no. Uh they they all were. And even the I had some real harsh like traditional pinball dudes in their 60s plus that are pretty critical and they enjoyed playing it, right? So I think people need again be more open-minded and actually go and play one >> because it's nowhere near as bad as what they think. And I think there just because it's different doesn't make it bad. >> Um but you know uh Jerry's extremely humble individual like you said he listens. He does. Uh he may not like some of the criticism people give. No one's going to want. >> I can tell you right now how he does some of the criticism even coming from me. There's there's definitely disagreements kind of thing. Sure, you know. So even just the small things, the feedback, like I said, if I play a game, I get feedback. This is what I like, this is what I don't like. Uh one of which was the lack of better lighting in Dungeon Crawler Carl. And he he text me letting me know that they are in progress of improving upon that. So, the game will have more light by the time I guess it reaches customers. And as far as everything else in regards to codewise that my complaints were, that's all going to be developed over the next course of however long it takes for him to start shipping, which I'm hearing is at the end of the year. >> And obviously, while you were there, there was this thing. Oh, by the way, behind the curtain there was another game, which is obviously the the disc is still in it. The back is a little bit different. The shots are the same though right? >> Yeah. It's mechanically It's just like what we're used to seeing when when Spooky did their dual theme. It's the same thing on this game. But this game I kind of liked more. It it it's one of those where I'm like, man, I I the music just felt much more. I don't know. It fits so well. It I just enjoyed the music better overall. And the light shows on this game are just like so good. And I I don't know if it's caught into the gameplay footage on this. I haven't watched Kevin's footage on this when he's playing it or anything, but there's a point in time on this game where it this light show like is feeding down through the traces of the artwork on the upper portion of the playfield. Like it just looks like water, but it's light illuminating and it just looks so wicked. I'm like, please tell me that's going to be in the trailer for this game. I wish I would have been able to record it. I didn't know the game did that on a particular mode. I'm like, man, I would have loved to have had my camera going for that kind of thing cuz that is a wicked damn light show. But just it's just this game is much more, you know, it's just brighter because it's not being blocked by a giant, you know, dungeon and that was done by Stumbler over there on dungeon crawler Carl. >> I think there's that element of sci-fi, right? Like I think we naturally everyone loves sci-fi. So being sci-fi, this reminds me a lot of Final Resistance, which I thought was absolutely fantastic. the color scheme and the and kind of the whole sci-fi of it, but I think even the disc >> suits the sci-fi as well, you know, and the way that incorporates with the theme. I have only watched the movie. I've never read the books. I know Jerry's a huge ambassador of the books and will disown you if you if you tell him that you haven't read the books, but um cuz Jamie was like, I don't even know what this is. And he was Jerry was a bit surprised. So, um, you know, like these targets now facing the flipper. >> Yeah. They're right there in front of the flipper, man. It's one of those that you talk about risky. They're like so close, but it's just so damn cool. And there's another mode where that turns around the other direction and you're trying to like defend and you're having to hit the targets when the targets are facing towards the upper portion of the playfield. >> It's It's pretty damn wicked. I I think both these games, the way they've been presented and the way that they've gotten better with the extension stuff, I think that it will be now that like P3 have cemented with especially with the um the traditional pinball players. Um, you know, an opportunity to kind of go, well, hold on, these guys mean business. This is very similar even though it's different. Um, look how much is in it. Um, having those themes as well. I mean, Portal was a fantastic theme because it's a video game, but there was still a lot of people skeptical of the platform and kept saying, "Oh, we wanted to see this on a Stern or but you couldn't do those things on a Jersey Jack or a Stern, right? Because you need to be able to appear, disappear, you know, have the um the rooms and stuff like that. Like it it is >> certain themes, as much as you may not like it, suit the P3 platform." >> Yeah. >> Um and there's no question about it. I mean, Jerry's technology, I mean, even the screen, the ball tracking, like I don't know if you've ever done a test, if he's ever showed you the way you can do the test of the ball tracking. Uh, it's impressive and it moves fast and it's very accurate. Um, you know, I guess over time people say, "Oh, what happens with this the the cover over the screen? Do you need to I mean, everything's cleanable, replaceable." Uh, the Flipper Mech and Jerry's games, like you l it's like a drawer. You just pull it out and plug the new one in. Much easier to change flippers than it is to do it in a traditional pinball. Um, but yeah, when we saw the two themes, did he explain why he did two themes? >> Uh, no. He didn't explain why. And if he did, maybe I was so focused on looking at the damn games that I probably don't remember if he stated why, >> but it was one of those where Dungeon Crawler Carl was the first game I saw. Uh, and I got a chance to play it about a game or two and he's like, "Oh yeah, we have something else over here." here and he just pulls this curtain back and I'm like, "Oh my god, my wife is going to want to play this cuz she uh she loves the book series and she had me read the book back when we were dating." And I still remember me hanging Christmas lights listening to the audio book and and it's one of those where I think for those that have read the book or listened to the book, then you would you would have to agree that the book is definitely better than the movie. And it's one of those endings for a book that makes you kind of go, "Oh, snap." kind of thing. And but the movie just doesn't do it justice at all. >> Yeah. And I mean, I the dual theme I don't actually mind. Like Looney Tunes and Texas are so different that again when we had them at the festival, we asked people, "Did you notice that these were the same?" And everyone said no. Um so like the idea of doing two games for me is cool because it means I don't have to wait another year for a release, right? >> Yeah. And it gives you a chance to get a game that has a better odds of grabbing a different demographic, too. I mean, like you're able to use the same layout, but copy paste a different theme on top of there. It kind of ups your chances for finding a buyer. is like, well, I could only do Enders or I could only do Dungeon Crawler Carl that's only going to speak to this particular demographic or I could potentially increase my chances. I don't want to say double, but I can increase my chances of grabbing people by doing two different themes. >> Two different themes. Yeah. Do you think cuz I think I read somewhere that he because I know Jerry likes the idea of like you can use Princess Bride but play uh Dungeon Door Defender on it, right? or play other small um uh what do you call developers games? Do you think it's because probably either that dungeon crawler KL the company didn't want you to be able to play any other game on his game is the reason that he's like well we need to then do another one cuz you can't play this on the other one right >> that is correct I mean at least currently I remember texting about that like is it possible to like uh sell the other game as like DLC and he he he mentioned that there was and they were in the middle full of discussion talking about it, but at that current point in time, it didn't look like it was going to be possible. >> And I kind of I understand it uh as an IP. Like I I wouldn't I'd want my own standalone and not have like the little fish feeding off the big fish type of thing. um you know it kind of goes against the idea of P3 where you can just change the the back section and play a different game or you know you have to buy both basically now at this point in time. Um, which you know, ironically, we know collectors carry. You know, William doesn't even He's got four. Is it four P3s or three P? He doesn't even change. >> He's got at least two for sure I know of. >> But he's got he's got two or three. But yeah, he's one of those that he's like, I'm not changing out the modules. I'll just buy a whole new machines kind of thing, which I'm pretty sure Jerry's perfectly content with. Like, that's fine. That's not the intent of my platform, but if it's what you want to do, okay, I'm cool with it. But I'm just sitting here kind of mesmerized at the light show for Enders Game because you don't have this light show on Dungeon Crawler Carl and and because I'm I'm watching the ball make contact with things and the the feedback that you're getting it makes you feel like all your shots are doing something where I didn't get that feeling at the point in time that DCC was giving me kind of thing. >> And and look, ironically, video games are the biggest I mean video game industry is bigger than Hollywood, right? So, this is P3 gives you the closest thing to a video game because of the screen, the light show, the theme integration. Like there's even on um Weird Owl, there's a mode where there's like germs on the screen and as the ball rolls it squashes the germs, right? So, like that that is very video game. Like it's it's you're not going to get that from a traditional wooden pinball. Um it's just not going to happen. So, you know, I think this is definitely um something that is extremely unique uh in the sense of um what they're offering and it suits the themes they're offering. It suited Portal, it suited DCC, it suits this one. Princess Bride, maybe not. You probably could have done that in a normal stern, but I but I understand the theme assets are very important in that, especially for Princess Bride um fanatics. So having that massive screen helps Princess Bride. Um but yeah, look, I I I think what Jerry's doing is extremely uh unique. Um uh very appealing, especially for the fact that if you are limited in space and funds. Granted, the new kits that have the extensions are not as cheap as what his kits used to be, but you are getting more, right? I think they're a couple thousand dollars more from memory. Um, but it still saves you spending $12,000 a game. Uh, you know. So, um, do you do you know the pricing on the DCC? Was it like 59 US? >> It's, uh, I know that DCC costs more than Ender Game and I think it's like maybe a,000 bucks difference. >> Yeah. I thought it was like >> sculpts and stuff or >> I I I'm gonna assume so because you've got a lot of sculpts and character molds and everything that are in DCC opposed to Ender Game where you don't have like any of that >> the sculpts of I mean Stumble. >> Oh yeah, Davey did a great job with that. >> Yeah. I mean I don't I don't the amount of manpower that goes into something like that. Um so you you got to play I mean it's fair to say all three games are pretty cool, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. That that's the great thing is that I didn't like walk away thinking like, "Oh man, this game sucks." It It was one of those where I'm like, "Okay, good. I can understand where people aren't going to like certain things about this game or that game, but there was never a point of just like, uh, man, I hate to come here, play this game, and then I got to crap on it kind of thing." And the thing, it's what's funny is that all manufacturers are like anticipating that kind of thing. Even Jerry, he's like, he's like, "All right, so what are you gonna hate on kind of like I'm like, "All right." And the thing is, by me telling them what I don't like, the chances are if I don't like it, a lot of other pinball enthusiasts aren't going to like it either, kind of thing. So, it kind of gives them an idea of what to anticipate. And so, when I told him that that bat glass for Bonjovi was the weak spot, >> that was one of the first things that got leaked out. And that's the one of the first things that everybody was like, "Oh god, sure enough." That's what everybody's harping on. >> Yeah. And I think, look, I mean, especially me, I I I like buying a game also based on knowing who the company is. Like, you know, um Jerry's team is ex extremely responsive with their support. Um extremely friendly, uh very down to earth, very kind of um passionate and it shows in their products. But even talking to them or trying to deal with them is just like, you know, it's extremely enjoyable. And I think there's that element of why we do business with certain companies. It's the same way why Spooky is popular because they, you know, talk to the community. They're in the chats. They're in Facebook. You know, they're very community engaging. Um, and people go, "Well, I love what those the boys are like one of the boys, right? And David Vaness is extremely passionate and very he'll talk to anybody, right? And like these guys are essentially like us. They just happen to build, you know, pinballs. Um, but you know, I do want to give Jerry a big shout out because Jerry, you know, out of the goodness of his heart, sent a game to the other side of the world. Um, didn't charge us a scent for it. Uh, it was to promote because he didn't have any exposure in Australia at the time. And that's a big risk for him. Uh obviously, you know, he knows me through the channel and obviously, you know, um he felt comfortable and I showed it in Perth, we took it to Melbourne, showed it there. Uh and it got some exposure because there was none here. Uh I think there was one or two collectors that had them and people got to experience P3 and you know, um kudos to Jerry for doing that cuz I've reached out to other pinball companies like send me a game. We'll do it for the channel. Australia's a very different demographic. um you know we don't have as much as the we don't have the same population and all that and they you know they won't so for Jerry to do it is it's you know it's a it's a very um I'm very grateful that he did it and it gave me an opportunity to experience it. Uh, and P3 is definitely on my um once my circumstances change and things get better on our end because it's a bit quiet over here at the moment. Uh, I'll definitely be ordering a P3 for sure. Um, because I just think as a package, it does have everything you want. Uh, my kids really enjoyed Final Resistance, would you believe? Um, even though it's a, you know, it's not a it's not really a theme or a generic uh, sorry, a theme that they know. Um, they really enjoy that. And man, I it's ironic, you know, cuz all three themes, all three games are stuff that the traditional pinball guys will be saying, "Nobody asked for these." >> Do you Here's the thing. I mean, like, out of curiosity, I mean, something that's definitely changed over the last year since his portal release is the amount of distributors that he has. >> Yeah. Uh, and I'm wondering if that's also a reason why he's potentially selling as many as he's sold so far, allegedly over 600, is because he's got basically a further reach with the distros out there able to market his product for him kind of thing. I I think there's uh that's a very valid point and I think there is the argument and I'll play devil's advocate here that people will feel comfortable buying from flipping out because they know that if they do have a problem they can go to someone and say I bought this off you need you to help me as opposed to buying it direct. Not that Jerry's not going to help them because like I said his support network and his support team is probably one of the best in the industry. um extremely responsive, extremely helpful, uh will zoom with you. It doesn't matter what time of the night it is here. Um so, you know, but some people just want to buy from their local distributor because they will come and set it up. They will drop it off. They will deliver it. A lot of pinball guys or sorry, a lot of people that are in pinball don't know even know how to unbox one. >> They don't even know how to take the glass off, right? So, >> to have more distributors which give your product credibility is a smart move. I mean, it's a smart business decision, but yes, I think there's definitely the fact that Flipping Out will do videos about it and and shill it and so will all these other companies. Um, you know, as opposed to having this one guy that also sells trailers. >> Um, but, you know, Jerry, I guess, ultimately had to prove himself too, right? Um, I'm sure he's the first to have to admit that he needed to listen and make changes. uh as much as he believed in his product originally even when it was the first weird cabinet that was a bit different and didn't look like a pinball machine, you know, he would have told you that that was what he believed it should have been. And um you know, we saw it with Turn a Pinball. He made changes cuz the community unfortunately is very vocal. Um but you know, as much as we have new blood coming through this hobby, it is mainly supported by the traditional demographic. Um eventually that will change over the next 20 years because as people unfortunately pass on and and you know their kids then go oh you know dad used to have Harry Potter and dad used to have Beetlejuice and you know they have that nostalgia element. Um at the moment I think the only way to do business is through um or to grow it is through a distributor. I mean, as much as you can sell off your website and everything, um, you're going to piss off people when your website crashes and that's the only way you can buy a game, um, you know, distributors build relationships with clients. Um, clients want an experience, and they get that through a distributor. I mean, it's it's as simple as that. So, it's a very valid point, Carrie, and I think it Yes, I think that's probably one of the reasons. Um, but I believe like you said that number of 600 that some of the people in the chat said they've been giving as their order, that's off Jerry's website. >> So if Jerry is selling 600 on his own, >> uh, you know, I' I'd like to think most distributors are ordering at least 5 to 10 >> themselves minimum. It's like I I think the other obstacle that's in not just over, you know, Jerry's product is over in pinball in general is that you get to a place like San Diego Comic-Con and everyone's like, "Whoa, a pinball machine." And like they still make these or whatever and then they're excited because it's a theme that they really like. They're like, "I'm going to buy one of these." >> And they're like, and then they think it's going to be maybe a couple of thousand bucks. >> And then they rude awakening happens whenever you're looking at 10 plus, you know, for one of these things. >> If if you don't already have a platform for it, that is. And it's one of those what? But then you got other people out there that that's just chunk change. But, you know, it's still making it much more out there, making people more aware that yes, these things still exist. They are still made. We got more manufacturers than we ever had and they're making better pinball machines than they ever had. >> Yeah. Yeah. And to think, you know, uh 20 years ago, we we nearly lost it all, you know, like early 2000s. It's just >> uh and it's not easy making pinballs. You talk to them, you know, it's not easy. Uh there's not a lot of money as they all say. Uh it's probably why one of the reasons everyone hops on uh about how pinball companies have the worst marketing uh and they rely now a lot on content creators like yourself and that because there is not enough money to pay for a massive company to come in and spend 30 50 grand to do a video. Um Mhm. >> You know, and I think people think >> unless unless you're Jersey Jack, but you know, like not like I said, not every company, but like >> you don't have JJP money. [snorts] >> Yeah. Um but you know, I think at the end of the day, it's the fact that, [clears throat] you know, the hobby when you see a high ticket item, you know, 12 grand, right, for Bon Joy, everyone's going, "Well, that's a $400 price increase." Yeah, but there's a lot in the game. >> There's the licensing probably was was more expensive. Um, there could be things we don't know. And I think there's this misconception that people think that they must they must make 50% profit or 80% profit in this stuff. You know, it's the same when I sell a $300,000 projector, which I haven't for a long time because the the market's changed. But everyone thinks you're making, you know, 50 to 80% profit. Um, >> it's one it's one of those things I mean I can't discuss everything that goes on behind the curtain when I talk to manufacturers and everything but you know whenever he did discuss the price increase in his product I definitely questioned it like like who wouldn't and there's definitely just been a price increase across everything that goes into his games and there's been a major price increase in the labor >> that goes into building these games. you know, and he walked me through a lot of the trials and tribulations of certain employees that he's had in the past that, you know, there's people out there that have that have complained about uh not having certain things in their game when they get it, like like I forgot what it was, but something's missing or something's not in there, like leg bolts or whatever. And it's just little things like that that makes his product look like there's no QC, but you're relying on that individual that probably had a lazy day or wasn't just doing his job that things get fall through the cracks. And you know, it's one of those things where he's got to have these people going through there and making sure everybody's doing their damn best. And it's just it's just it's a hard thing to accomplish across the board. And it's the same thing with my Harry Potter, with my drop target issue. I mean, I talked to Eric about it. He's like, he's like, "Man, I went on vacation the same week that your game was being manufactured and someone didn't put the Loctite on there kind of thing." And it just happens when you have all those variables. >> Well, they're all It's a man-made product, right? But at the same time, you watch how everyone would be complaining if these things were made in, for argument sake, China, right? Like they're made in America. They're made by real people, not robots and AI. Uh, everyone tightens things differently. someone might have a bad day, but you know, David especially is renowned for knowing to want to take care of his stuff. Make sure that they've got like, you know, [snorts] medical and and what do they call in the US? Um um there's a term for it when insurance. Yeah. So like that that comes at a cost, right? And there's nothing wrong with that. Um but yes, there's been a lot of increases in the last couple years in across the all industries. So, you know, price increases are inevitable. We know Spooky's probably going to do one as well. So, it is what it is. It is what it is. But look, I'll let you go, Carrie, because we've been at an hour and I said we'd only do like 40 minutes. So, uh I really appreciate it, man. And it's so unique that you got to play all three of them so close to each other and we can quickly smash out a video. Um guys, if you haven't seen Kerry's video on what basically uh all of these, >> all of them. Yeah. If you're watching this channel, you're watching Scary's channel because like you know you're >> I'm sure you're a suggested channel where if they watch my content. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um and please, it takes a lot of effort uh to do this stuff and there's a lot of money being spent. If you can go to Patreon and support Kerry, I'm sure he will be very grateful. Uh he'll probably send you a picture of his nipple or something. >> Oh yeah. And that's the thing is that people think that I I I I either get a machine or I'm getting paid a lot of money for this. It's like, no, the the all the money that I do get from this are from my supporters. Y >> it it's it's and all that money is definitely goes into a separate account and it literally goes right back into the channel. The reason I'm not not I'm not sure if anybody even noticed this on the featureette, but I've got three different camera angles and I've got like, you know, I'm back there monitoring everything on the new equipment that I have. And all of that is due to my supporters out there that were able to basically help me improve my channel. This is why I'm even doing what I'm doing is because I'm trying to just get better at it kind of thing. And practice makes perfect. So hopefully eventually I I'll I'll just keep getting better. >> Yeah. I've even been talking to Gonzo about doing Patreon because I was like, man, we do a lot of work and he does a lot of work and sometimes the extra 300 bucks will be helpful to buy a new microphone or without having to put into your own pocket, you know, because you've got your own job that supports your family. The last thing you want to do is take 300 bucks out of that to go buy a microphone. So, um, you know, supporting what these guys do and bringing you all the content. Uh, jump on Patreon. You know, it's five bucks, 10 bucks, 30 bucks. You know, there's levels. A lot of people don't even know what Patreon is. So, you know, look it up and support the guys. Most of the guys have a Patreon account. Um, but um, yeah, Kerry does meets up meet up once a month, which is pretty cool. We get to sit down and drink whiskey and and talk crap. So, thank you very much, Kerry, for coming on, man. I really appreciate. I know it's late. And, uh, I'll see you on the flip side. [laughter] >> All right, Enzo. Have a good night, man.