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Episode 20: Jurassic Pinburgh

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·analyzed·Aug 8, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

Pinburgh coverage, Oktoberfest vs Willy Wonka comparison, American Pinball licensing speculation.

Summary

Poor Man's Pinball Podcast episode 20 features hosts Drew and Scott Ian discussing Pinburgh tournament results, praising Keith Elwin's back-to-back championship performance, reviewing the quality differences between Stern's Oktoberfest and Jersey Jack's Willy Wonka machines, and speculating that American Pinball needs to secure a licensed IP for their next game to improve sales.

Key Claims

  • Keith Elwin won Pinburgh back-to-back and is a five-time winner, which people say has never happened before

    medium confidence · Drew and Scott Ian discussing Pinburgh results; Drew notes 'people are saying they don't think that's ever happened'

  • Keith Elwin had over 900,000 bonus points banked in F14 during his winning performance

    medium confidence · Drew describing Elwin's F14 gameplay: 'he had over 900,000 points in bonus points, just, like, just waiting to bank on them'

  • Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (Standard Edition) is noticeably heavier and more solidly built than Oktoberfest

    medium confidence · Drew comparing machines: 'Oktoberfest feels a little cheap... you go from an Oktoberfest to a Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (Standard Edition), you know, Jersey Jack Pinball machine, oh my god, dude... driving a Honda and now I'm driving a freaking Maserati'

  • American Pinball has eliminated Poker Run as a potential theme

    medium confidence · Drew: 'You're not going to see any of those themes that they teased before. They said poker runs definitely out.'

  • American Pinball developed Oktoberfest first and is now trying to license an IP to attach to a future game

    low confidence · Drew speculating: 'They have developed the game and now they're going to slap a license on the game... I have a feeling if this game isn't licensed, the next one is'

  • Pinburgh sells out in 10 seconds with 1,000 tournament participants

    medium confidence · Drew: 'it sells out in 10 seconds, which is just crazy if you think about it. People say like pinball isn't very big. Well, 1,000 people are willing to pay however much it costs within 10 seconds'

  • Holly Kaskinen won the Women's International Pinball Tournament at Pinburgh

    high confidence · Drew announcing results: 'the gals, we have the women's champion, Holly, I'm sorry if I butcher this name, Kaskinen'

  • Ryan Kuyper made the finals in the e-division at Pinburgh on his first time out

Notable Quotes

  • “Keith Elwin, you are the Tiger Woods of pinball. I'm sure people have said that before.”

    Drew @ ~15:00 — Comparison establishing Elwin's dominance and legendary status in competitive pinball

  • “you go from an Oktoberfest to a Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (Standard Edition), you know, Jersey Jack Pinball machine, oh my god, dude, I was like driving you know a Honda and now I'm driving a freaking Maserati”

    Drew @ ~42:00 — Quality perception difference between Stern and Jersey Jack machines

  • “They have developed the game and now they're going to slap a license on the game. I'm my my hot take— hot take. This is going to be a licensed game. The next one.”

    Drew @ ~50:00 — Speculation about American Pinball's strategy and licensing approach

  • “If American Pinball pinball keeps making games like that and they're not selling as much as you know as well as they should be, are they going to stay in business much longer?”

    Drew @ ~48:00 — Industry concern about American Pinball's viability

  • “They can make pinball. They have proved it. Now all it means is they need a license. They need a theme. And that's it.”

    Drew @ ~62:00 — Assessment of American Pinball's core competency and missing ingredient

  • “We Are Pinball going to talk about Jurassic Park from Sam Stern because there's a lot of stuff going on there.”

    Drew @ ~35:00 — Teases upcoming Jurassic Park game discussion (though not pursued in transcript)

  • “20 episodes in, man. This is the only pinball podcast not being sued.”

    Jon Hey (Drew) @ ~0:30 — Self-deprecating humor about podcast longevity and industry legal drama

  • “We went with Poor Man's Pinball because Broke His Shit was already taken.”

    Drew @ ~25:00 — Origin of podcast name

Entities

Keith ElwinpersonDrewpersonScott IanpersonRyan KuyperpersonZach SharpepersonHolly KaskinenpersonDaniele AkaripersonAndrew RosapersonChris Stevensperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball's viability questioned if sales don't improve; hosts speculate company understands need to pivot strategy

    medium · Drew: 'If American Pinball pinball keeps making games like that and they're not selling as much as you know as well as they should be, are they going to stay in business much longer?'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinburgh tournament demonstrates massive market penetration with 1,000 participants selling out in 10 seconds; women's competitive track gaining visibility

    high · Drew: 'it sells out in 10 seconds, which is just crazy if you think about it. People say like pinball isn't very big. Well, 1,000 people are willing to pay'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Despite criticism, hosts defend American Pinball's work and express optimism about company's future with proper licensing and theme selection

    medium · Drew: 'people are kind of d— oom and gloom on the company but let's let's let's let's just work it out... I want you guys to be successful'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Keith Elwin's back-to-back Pinburgh championship and five-time winner status; exceptional bonus management (900k+) and rules knowledge identified as key differentiators from other elite players

    medium · Drew: 'he just knows... over 900,000 points in bonus points' and comparison of Elwin knowing rules 'inside and out' vs other players having to learn

  • ?

    design_philosophy: American Pinball's Houdini Master of Mystery criticized for overly tight shot design on first game, though acknowledged as learning experience

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.162

0:00
Hey, you're listening to the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast with Drew and Ian. Welcome to the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, episode number 20. That's right, folks. 20 episodes in and we have officially made it. This is the only pinball podcast not being sued by ARA. Also the only pinball podcast sponsored by Kessler's Fine Whiskey. Kessler's Whiskey. You're only one hangover away from a Kessler's Day. Ian, what are you drinking today, buddy?
0:48
I love it. Jack Daniel's Tennessee Honey. Ooh, you're doing that sweet, sweet Tennessee honey again. I wanted to finish up the Eagle Rare. We didn't get quite done with that. We almost made it last week. My Lord, that was good stuff. You know why I know it was good? Why? No hangover the next day. I worked like I would normally work. It was pretty cool. Welcome to my life every week. Josh Seekert, thanks again for the Eagle Rare. We're toasting to you right now. May the power of all the eagles find you. so ian's drinking his uh tennessee honey what you drinking drew oh i'm drinking what our sponsor gave us kessler's whiskey but i have a little twist this week in honor of orbital albert from pinball nerds podcast i am drinking some canada dry there you go albert yeah we got some kessler's and and uh ginger ale and it's going good so ian what do we have on the docket today Well, today we have Oh, I just want to back up one quick second here Just so you guys know, you haven't heard any other voices Today's the first day in a while We don't have any guests with us It's back to me, Ian, and the listening audience I can almost hear them tuning out now Click, click, click Everyone's turning off their radios And it's good All right, yeah Collectively, our pinball IQ has dropped drastically Oh, man Now that Kuyper's not here Ryan Kuyper, we miss you we're like oh shit now we gotta talk about silver balls and and flippers uh we're gonna do just fine today because you know what we got a lot to talk about i got the power of tennessee honey in me so what's our first segment today buddy unofficial show oh we haven't we haven't done that in a while you know we should do a sock watch one of these days i haven't seen summer yeah i assume canada's not wearing socks we we can just make that assumption sock watch canada still isn't wearing socks but it's summer we're waiting till fall there well today we have today's unofficial show ready here we go in my best radio voice jersey jack pinball the pinball company that puts pinball back into pinball you want a 26 inch lcd jersey jack puts in a 27 inch you know what invisiglass is me neither but jjp has it Jersey Jack Pinball Get yours today from Flippin' Out Pinball The distributor that knows good shills when he sees them Flippin' Out Pinball Call Zach today And that number is If you want a shill, email us at 4manspinball at gmail.com Zach, we're too lazy to look up your number If you want a shill, send us your number We'll post it on our website somewhere And I don't know how shilling works, but we're going to send you a bill, Zach, and we'll send Jersey Jack a bill for that one. What do we call it? The shill bill, right? The shill bill. Yeah, we're going to send them the shill bill. What's beautiful about what I just did, right? So Jersey Jack pays us, right? Zach pays us. We take that money. We buy ourselves a Willy Wonka. It's basically. It's the circle of life. So Zach gives us money. Which we in turn give back to him. back to him so zach your show bill is going to be about 7500 no no jersey jacks will be 7400 okay and zacks will be 100 yeah he's he's only the distributor he's not going to make he only got a couple lines jersey jack got four lines we got a bill by the line i think okay okay 15 fuzzy math yeah fuzzy math there goes the notebook yeah that's fuzzy i threw it across all right here we go what else we got today oh man we are going to talk about pinball the biggest pinball tournament in the world were you there nope no i mean were you no but we know a couple people that were yeah diaper how was pinberg we miss you ryan yeah well good for him though so yeah he's got a family to he he was he was gone he was gone all weekend he's not here that's fine because he he did a lot of pinball he um he came in the finals in the uh the top i'm sorry not the finals but the top 40 in the e-division it was his first time out and his only goal was to the finals he got there yep in the e-division yep my man yeah we were joking we were gonna uh you know announce on the poor man's pinball podcast that ryan kuiper made the finals yes what division doesn't matter but he he had a blast he he talked to every pinball personality he was having a great time and uh i would love to be there yeah it just looked it was awesome seeing all the photos come back in yeah he texted us he was texting us every what 20 minutes yeah it was awesome hey look at this look at this orbital albert uh marty from head to head rich fucky and rich fucky and jack danger oh man just just the list goes on and on mr and mrs pin we don't really talk about that much on this show no no but they seem like cool people yeah yeah yeah yeah What is that from? Like the 80s villain? From like a cartoon? Like Dick Tracy? Oh yeah, what was his name? Mushmouth or whatever?

medium confidence · Drew: 'he came in the finals in the uh the top, I'm sorry, not the finals, but the top 40 in the e-division... his only goal was to make the finals. He some there.'

  • Nate Shivers is now working as an employee for Sam Stern

    medium confidence · Scott Ian: 'Did you see Nate Shivers is starting his little teasing for the Sam Stern Insider podcast? Is he working for Sam Stern then? Yeah. He's a Sam Stern employee now.'

  • The hosts emphasize cartoons/cartoon licenses as ideal theme choices for future American Pinball games (Transformers, G.I. Joe, TMNT, Futurama)

    medium confidence · Drew: 'All you pinball manufacturers out there, cartoon, cartoon, cartoon, Futurama cartoon. I mean, there's a ton of them out there.'

    • “I love it a lot better than playing pinball. But that's okay.”

    Scott Ian @ ~28:00 — Host preference for podcasting over actual gameplay, indicates creative fulfillment from show

  • “if they made a Transformers cartoon or G.I. Joe cartoon or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle cartoon... cartoon, cartoon, cartoon, Futurama cartoon.”

    Drew @ ~68:00 — Theme licensing recommendations to manufacturers

    • Rachel Karlik
    person
    Carrie Wingperson
    Nate Shiversperson
    Josh Kuglerperson
    Eric Pripkeperson
    Ken Cromwellperson
    Flippin' Out Pinballcompany
    American Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Pinburghevent
    Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory (Standard Edition)product
    Oktoberfestproduct
    Houdini Master of Mysteryproduct
    Poor Man's Pinball Podcastorganization

    medium · Drew discussing shot tightness issues and trajectory problems that could have been layered differently

  • ?

    licensing_signal: American Pinball pursuing licensed IP for next game after learning from Oktoberfest/Houdini sales performance; hosts predict next game will be licensed

    low · Drew: 'They have developed the game and now they're going to slap a license on the game... I have a feeling if this game isn't licensed, the next one is'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Nate Shivers transitioned to Sam Stern employee role; beginning Sam Stern Insider podcast venture

    medium · Scott Ian: 'He's a Sam Stern employee now' in response to question about Nate Shivers' role

  • ?

    announcement: Jurassic Park from Stern teased as upcoming topic with 'a lot of stuff going on' but discussion not pursued in episode

    low · Drew: 'We Are Pinball going to talk about Jurassic Park from Sam Stern because there's a lot of stuff going on there' (mentioned but not explored)

  • ?

    product_concern: Oktoberfest perceived as lighter and cheaper-feeling than Willy Wonka despite good code quality; texture coating on lockdown bar and overall build feel criticized compared to Jersey Jack

    high · Drew: 'Oktoberfest feels a little cheap... lighter. Maybe not built as solid' and 'textured' powder coat comparison

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Hosts recommend cartoon-based licenses as underexploited opportunities (Transformers, G.I. Joe, TMNT, Futurama, Gilligan's Island, Masters of the Universe) for manufacturers seeking affordable IP

    medium · Drew: 'cartoon, cartoon, cartoon, Futurama cartoon... there's so many great themes out there and some of them aren't like incredibly expensive'

    • 6:09
    Oh man, this thing's going off the rails quickly today. Ryan, save us. Say something with pinball. Nothing.
    6:17
    We've been leaning on Ryan and our guests for so long now. We're so used to it. This show is going to just take a hard left and it's just going to go right off the rails, and it's going to start on fire before we even get there. Ladies and gentlemen, we're working with no show notes. We didn't even think we needed those. No, because the last few weeks was great. We had Dan Lucin from Midwest Gaming Classic. You know, he's on here just talking awesome, good stuff. And then Ryan and Josh last week, and now it's just me and Ian left to our own devices. Which is always a bad idea. If this show sucks, I blame Ryan, I blame Josh, and I blame Dan Lucin from Midwest Gaming Classic. Damn you, Dan. We love you guys. All right. So, yeah. Oh, Pinberg. Who won? Oh. Winners, winners. Chicken dinners. So I asked the question as soon as I found out who won. I just texted Ryan. I said, is this guy human? Mr. Keith Elwin. He won back-to-back, which it hasn't been confirmed yet, but people are saying they don't think that's ever happened. no one's ever won back to back and you know five time winner he's a five-time winner which that definitely hasn't happened i watched him play that f uh 14 time cat talk about that that was just incredible yeah it was it was dumb it was like it was like as if i took off the glass and tried to recreate him and i still couldn't do it isn't that fine no seriously because here here's the thing here's the difference between him and other great players because all those players at that division and that league are great. Just amazing. He knows the rules inside and out. You know, there's a lot of these players that might be really good players, but they have to, like, you know, they have to learn the rules. They're trying to figure out what this game is all about, how to score on it. And he just knows. Yeah, he gets up there and he's like, all right. To give you an idea, I mean, he had over 900,000 points in bonus points, just, like, just waiting to bank on them. Like, they were like, I think he had a double warning from tilting. And then when that ball started coming right down the middle, I was like, hit that fucker. No, don't hit it. Don't hit it. You don't want to lose your bonus. 900,000, you know, and then it, boom, drained. And he just sat back. And I thought that machine was going to start smoking. And this brings up the question, why can we not get this to be televised and more publicized. Because I don't think people outside the hobby understand why that's so amazing. No, correct. But I'm just thinking about golf, right? It's easy to see someone throw a ball 80 yards ago. Yep, that's fucking crazy. Okay, okay. You know what I'm saying? But golf, kind of the same thing. Okay, you hit the ball. But golf has a huge following, and people watch it on TV, right? And people love watching it on TV. I don't get it. but some people love doing it. Well, I dabble in golf. Dabble. And do you watch it on TV?
    9:22
    Yeah, but it's kind of a little bit, but it's always depressing. I can only watch a little bit. Okay. These are people that have zen-like focus and still can generate a lot of power with their hips, and I'm sitting here like, I don't know, I look like a gorilla with a stick.
    9:39
    So is Keith Elwin more like Ivan Drago from Rocky or more like Tiger Woods from golf? Oh, dude. Yeah, Ivan Drago lost. Okay. So, yeah.
    9:49
    Tiger Woods. He's the Tiger Woods of pinball, man. It's official here on the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast. Keith Alwyn, you are the Tiger Woods of pinball. I'm sure people have said that before. Insert Tiger Woods. Sound. Sound effect.
    10:03
    Rawr. And that's why we're best friends, folks. That was the lamest joke in the world, and we think it's the best joke in the world. That was called a dooly dad joke. Oh, man. That happens. And that was definitely not in our notes that we didn't write down this week. We don't have notes. This is just, we're just going to drink this episode away. Episode 20. Josh made a great point. We can drink next episode. Can we talk about that for a second? 20 episodes, guys. Yeah, it was kind of fun. Thank you. It was kind of fun. Are we done? Is that it? It was a good run.
    10:34
    Peace. We're out. Do you have a favorite episode, Drew? Wait, hold on. Let's back up. Let's back out. Okay. Let's be fair. Let's finish up Pimberg. What else happened in Pimberg? Well, so Keith Alwyn in the finals went up against Daniele Akari. I guess he's pretty good. From Italy? Yes. He's been around a while. That dude's good. Andrew Rosa. Yep, and that dude's young. Andrew Rosa is a young guy. And who was the fourth? We didn't know the fourth. I do have it written down. It's Chris Stevens. Okay. Good for all you guys and gals that did really well in this tournament.
    11:15
    And with that being said, the gals, we have the women's champion, Holly, I'm sorry if I butcher this name, Kaskinen.
    11:26
    She won the Women's International Pinball Tournament, and she was playing against Rachel Karlik and Carrie Wing. Amazing. So I watched a little bit of that, too, and, yep, They would all kick my ass in any tournament, any pinball game ever. Yeah, the ladies kicked some serious ass. Very, very cool competition. They rocked it. And where can you find this Pimberg YouTube stuff? Oh, just go on Papa. Papa's YouTube channel, guys. You can watch all that action. Because they recorded almost all of it, right? Yeah. At least the finals. It was live, too, on YouTube. It was cool. Oh, that is neat. I was watching it live for a while. Okay, cool. So anyways, Pimberg's on my bucket list. I will do it, hopefully within the next few years, even if I don't get to play in the tournament because it sells out in 10 seconds, which is just crazy if you think about it. People say like pinball isn't very big. Well, 1,000 people are willing to pay however much it costs within 10 seconds to participate in this tournament. I know. It's crazy. And all the personalities that are there, the 10,000 podcasts all showed up except for this one. Yeah, we were the one of 10,000 that was not there. Yeah, we were like, oh. So that's where all the podcasts went off to. But yeah. We do say it in our name, Poor Man's. We can't afford to go to this kind of shit. Yeah, we went with Poor Man's Pinball because Broke His Shit was already taken.
    12:53
    Have you listened to that podcast? They're barely on. Did you see Nate Shivers is starting his little teasing for the Stern Insider podcast? Is he working for Stern then? Yeah. He's a Stern employee now. Makes sense. He has Stern written all over him. You know, he's consistent. He's too perfect. He's clean cut and he doesn't drink on the air.
    13:17
    But who knows? Maybe next time Stern will be our shill. Stern, do you need some more ambassadors? Because we looking to ambassador Is that a word And just with that one phrase we will never be ambassadors yep that it we done george gomez please let us be your ambassadors at least you said george gomez right i'm proud of you buddy all right so 20 episodes in man how do you feel i feel great man you feel like tired and beat down and like well yeah kind of a drag yeah but that's life not because of this Oh, not because of this? Yes. No, I honestly feel really good because Ian and I, and I'm sure some of you guys out there, it happens. You get these grand ideas, and sometimes you don't follow through on them, right? Yeah. Everyone has great ideas. Let's be honest. Everyone says, oh, I got this awesome idea. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And they say the doers are the people that make the world, not the dreamers, right? Well, we did this. For better, for worse. You guys are listening, so thank you very much. Mostly for worse. Yeah, mostly. Thank you. Thank you for listening. I'm excited, man. I think it's great. What about you? You're still into it. Yeah, dude, I love being able to flex some creativity, even though it backfires 98% of the time. But at least I'm being a little creative.
    14:32
    How often can you be creative in your late 30s, early 40s when you go to work all day and have a wife and kids? No, it's an outlet. It's hard to be creative these days. I'm not an artist, and I'm not a photographer, so I don't have free time. This is my one day a week where I get to be a little creative, so I love it. It's one of my favorite things I've ever done is podcasting. Yeah. I love it a lot better than playing pinball.
    14:58
    But that's okay. The collective gasp. That's okay, though. I love it. I love doing this. I love talking to our audience. I love having people interact with us on Facebook, which is Poor Man's Pinball Podcast on Facebook, and emailing us on poormanspinball at gmail.com. but we have a blast meeting all these new people and we say it we said that last week we went to met ryan we went to met josh you know yeah we know eric pripke which is pretty awesome eric's an amazing dude um dan lucen i would never have thought one of the co-creators of uh mgc was gonna be in my basement in your basement with us hanging out yeah that's looking at drew as drew poured his 10th drink it was seven eight counting no one's here this is my basement um Ryan told me it was eight. But yeah, do you have a favorite episode?
    15:48
    A couple come to mind. And you know what? I'm not going to even go favorite episode. I'm going to go a couple favorite moments. How's that? Yeah, very nice. Very nice. So a couple weeks ago, we called into the Flippin' Out Pinball stream. Yes. When they had the guys who created Willy Wonka. They had Joe Katz and Eric Menier. Eric Menier was there. He was there playing, and Keith Johnson. How do we forget Keith Johnson? So they're there. It's the late night where they accept the calls. And we had just finished podcasting. We were drinking, of course. We were fucked up. And we decided to call in. We drunk dialed them. Yes. So we drunk dialed.
    16:30
    And I remember they're like, oh, we're going to get Eric on the line, because Eric's from Wisconsin, like us. Yeah. And they're just, you know. uh he's having a killer game yeah he's having a killer game and ken ken's a little buzzed up and he's like oh you gotta get over here eric you know these guys are from wisconsin so he's like fine this is the podcast bill ran away oh bill was already hours ago yeah he was like passed out somewhere which ken didn't even know it was the greatest it was so fucking funny but um you know so we're talking to him and i just watched this again the other day when i was sober laughing my ass off because i told him because he's like oh yeah i'm gonna listen to a couple of the episodes and i just said don't listen to episode one two or three because we were talking about pirates of the caribbean yeah and i slaughtered his name in all three of those episodes and i i'm i'm laughing and i'm drunk telling him just don't listen to those episodes just start episode four yeah so far as my favorite episode so like just moments like that and things like that from the you know those moments wouldn't have happened without the podcast so it's just stuff like that is great yeah it was a lot of fun i uh i have a few moments too i like um i love the moment with you and my wife being belligerent and talking about the best uh pinball theme oh yeah the bracket challenge was so stupid and we had the worst the the themes are terrible most of them you you yeah you got rid of all the good themes i was wondering if he was doing that just to troll us all but yeah it was the funniest episode um i forgot about that one that was good one eric uh um walker who uh episode four his his letter is yes his love letter i pretty much pissed myself i was laughing so hard um and then i guess the third would have been eric prep keys just entire interview oh that that whole interview was just great i mean from a from a pinball standpoint that was probably our best work. I mean, I was that just listening to him talk about cactus Canyon and his new game with Scott Denise. I mean, it was just, it was all encompassing. Yeah. He didn't know if he had anything to share. Are you kidding me? Eric? He's so modest. And he's just like, yeah, I'm just a guy who programmed stuff. And we're like, come on, man. And he's, oh, he has the utmost, most respect for that man. That man is just, he was just a pleasure to talk to. And you know, I can't wait to at least try to attend a few of the league nights. Yep. He's starting up league again, and we should be there. I just want to be in his presence. He's a good dude. He's cool. He's fun to hang around. Love this podcast. A lot of good memories. Yes. And me constantly trolling and picking on Ken from Special When Lit just because I want to be his best friend. I think I might have said I wanted to make out with him a few episodes ago. Three times. Whatever, dude. so ken if you're listening hey buddy and and the funny thing is i told my wife about that episode in that moment and she just shrugged her shoulders and said yeah that's about right it sounds like ian yeah that's about right that's what we do yeah give him a little whiskey he gets a little frisky that happens no a lot kessler's whiskey yeah you you're only one hangover away from a kessler's day that is not their slogan i have no idea if they even have a slogan but we're not there yeah they don't sponsor yeah but they do i'm sending them a shill bill we should send them a show yeah kessler's i've been i've been promoting your stuff for a long time i've been sending an email after this there you go and we're saying hey if we got kessler's to really sponsor us that would be fantastic well their booze is like three dollars so i'm pretty sure it wouldn't cost them much to send us a cup of bottle. Nope. I'd get me some free Kessler's. Shipping would have been more.
    20:24
    Yeah, we would ship you some free booze, but we can't afford it. All right, so this is a pinball podcast. Let's go back to pinball. What else we got? So, you know, the big news that's been going on is obviously, well, a couple of things. We are going to talk about Jurassic Park from Stern because there's a lot of stuff going on there. But I'm back to, not back to, I'm still considering getting a Wonka. Yeah. What do you think? You've played a few more games now. I had a bad experience locally here trying to get on a Wonka. You want to talk about that? It's pretty funny. Not really. I don't want to call anybody out. I'll just say this. Everyone's had that time where they're about ready to play a game, and somebody kind of just jumps in front of you, pulls up a stool, and throws in two 20s. I've honestly never had that happen. And he played, and he played, and he played. Did you ask if he could get in? He was good. and i long ass ball times and i sat down i was like well there's an octoberfest in the corner so i played octoberfest but fuck that game not not the game itself but that particular game it the slings were firing off on its own and that damn fucking scoop dribbles dribbling i was there the other day yeah and i'm fucking oh oh i hate that that is the most straight down the middle piece of shit so talk a little we were talking before anyway started recording the quality difference between oktoberfest and wonka i did get one game on wonka before that guy sat down because my my lunch showed up so i was like i'm gonna eat real quick and then i turn around and do what's on there but i did get a game in and just and i said this at mgc guys if you remember go back to the mgc review when i said that i went oktoberfest feels a little cheap well it does and it doesn't right like lighter yeah lighter maybe not built as solid but then you know if you play stern all the time right stern games and then you go to an oktoberfest you're probably thinking okay oktoberfest is built really nice sterns are really light uh but with oktoberfest you go from an oktoberfest to a willy wonka you know jersey jack machine oh my god dude i was like driving you know a Honda and now I'm driving a freaking Maserati. It's beautiful. So do you, do you think that has to do with like parts and sourcing or what, what are you? Cause I felt the same thing. We're talking about the same place here and they're heavier. Yeah. Those are the only two games there. And yeah, the Wonka is right next to the Oktoberfest. And I played like, I did the opposite. I played like 20 games of Wonka and then I played one game of Oktoberfest and that was my first thought i said it just feels lighter and a little cheaper and i hate to say that yeah i like october fest wonka's heavier um i feel like it feels nicer the lockdown bar is you know powder coated or not powder coated but it is uh is it powder coated it might be it's smooth as shit though well it's that black yeah but it's super it's super smooth feeling in your hands versus there's that texture coating on i'm a coatings guy guys uh there's a texture coating on the um it's almost like a cheaper powder coat on the oktoberfest it's it's textured it doesn't feel as nice in the hands let me ask the loaded question here if american pinball keeps making games like that and they're not selling as much as you know as well as they should be are they going to stay in business much longer if american pinball keeps making games um like that that seem a little lighter and and with themes that aren't selling as well are they gonna stay in business i got it all right so here's the thing with the real american pinball american pinball i think they from everything i've understood from other podcasts and some streams that have been done recently i think they understand it right they get it now i think they get it you're not going to see any of those themes that they teased before they said poker runs definitely out i guess the keys are done yeah the keys are just a silly thing it's not going to be sherlock holmes it's not going to be valkyrie even though i think that could be a cool game well cool is fine but if it's not a universal theme they're not going to sell it i have a feeling this is just a gut feeling i have a feeling if this game isn't licensed the next one is and i think they are really fighting hard right now as we speak to get a license because they're doing it kind of ass backwards they are they have developed the game and now they're going to slap a license on the game i'm i'm gonna i'm my my hot take hot take this is going to be a licensed game the next one i'm going to go with it josh they've learned they've learned if you're listening we we would love to have you on the show josh um come on by we we gotta invite them officially officially we we like what you're doing um i think oktoberfest is a i think it's a great game i really do i think it's fun they coded the shit out of that game dude they put a lot of work i think yeah i think i think the code is is great i think the shots are fun from a pinball just a pure pinball perspective i think it's great um i just want to know more about the direction that you think the company's going and i would i would love to pick your brain about it so anyway josh kugler i like what you guys are doing there i want you to keep it up i i just i want you guys to be successful and to to figure it out and sell a lot of games yeah people are kind of doom and gloom on the company but let's let's let's just work it out it's two games in right houdini they sold plenty of houdini and houdini is a fun game too the whole they shouldn't have made the shots as tight in their first game that's fine but i think it's a great game um no you're 100 right the okay they could have gotten one shot out of the houdini or they could have worked the trajectory the trajectory see i can't work do words now um a little bit of a day is words the word of the day is trajectory um but yeah i mean there's different ways you could have done it and layered those shots a bit so they opened up a little bit more however like i'm a fucking designer right i don't fucking know pinball wizard um but i also want to talk to you about that but hold on um so but you know what Houdini, dude, Twippy, I was all about their mechs. I wanted them to get the Twippy for the mechs and toys I thought they deserved it last year If those games if they could make them for a little maybe make them a little cheaper No, we can't. We can't. No, I know. That's tough. I would say this, though. I think Oktoberfest was a hell of a, like, if you're going to make an Oktoberfest game, I mean, they pretty much put, that's Oktoberfest. No, Oktoberfest compared to Houdini has a ton in it. They did a great job. Yes. It's a fun game. It's a great job. They did a great job. They could have done art a little differently, sure. But when I go up to it, I don't think, oh, what ugly art. I say, you know, it's kind of colorful. I like it. I'm not a fan of people being very, very critical of a game. They probably haven't shot a whole lot. And some of them haven't shot at all, by the way. Yeah, and they're just being dicks about it. But you know what? I think I would very much like to have an Oktoberfest. Zach Benny is well aware of my love for Oktoberfest. I'm sorry, Zach, again. Zach, take $500 off that Oktoberfest. Just for your troubles, sir. We'll show for you. Just for your troubles. No, no. No, every time I walk up to an Oktoberfest, I have fun with it. It's a great game compared to other games, too. It is. It's a good game. They did a great job with it. All those bank targets they have. Oh, with the magnets in them, too? Oh, that's awesome. The magnet kind of moves it around like it's going down the beer. Dude, it's a great effing game. But yeah, no, Oktoberfest is a fucking great game. If you were to say, make an Oktoberfest game, you'd be hard-pressed to make it any better than what they did. They can make pinball. They have proved it. Now all it means is they need a license. They need a theme. And that's it. They need a theme. A theme that resonates with everybody. I'm glad that Poker Run has been officially eliminated. God bless you. Cheers to that. Bye-bye, Poker Run. Guys, there are so many great themes out there. and some of them aren't like incredibly expensive from what i understand you know a lot of these themes from the 80s and stuff i know canada was talking a little bit about that too yeah master the universe gi joe gi joe i'm an insta buy it on gi joe nobody fucking thinks about it but you know how many toys i could glue on the play field i have boxes and boxes of toys i can know on that play field there's something to be said for that but you're right if if they made a Transformers cartoon or G.I. Joe cartoon or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle cartoon. Hey, do you see the theme? All you pinball manufacturers out there, cartoon, cartoon, cartoon, Futurama cartoon. I mean, there's a ton of them out there. Go get them. And a lot of these wouldn't be like the Beatles. They're not going to ask you for a million bucks. Yeah, it's not Star Wars, right? No, no. Can you imagine G.I. Joe right now? Because where is G.I. Joe right now? they'd be like, yeah, give us $10,000 and you can have these likenesses. You know, I mean, truly. Playing the G.I. Joe movie on the LCD. Yeah, whatever. There's a ton of shit you can do. I'm a huge G.I. Joe guy in general, so that's up there with Star Wars for me personally as a fan. My whole childhood was G.I. Joe. When Kaneda said that out of the blue, I was like, oh, God, he gets me. Kaneda understands that I need a G.I. Joe in my life. And what's funny now is a lot of these guys. That's called a home equity loan. I'd get three of them. A lot of these guys I'm finding now, you know, when we first got into the hobby and a few years before us, the guys are all, you know, 50 years old. And they were born in the 60s and the 70s. Okay, fine. But now the guys that are buying these pins are guys like us that were born. Early 40s. We're starting to get into this, guys. They were born in the 80s. So, yeah, you got to start looking at this stuff. Play with me, man. I want to buy your pinballs, but I don't care about the Munsters. I just don't. You know what I heard the other day? I'm sorry. I never even heard that before. Gremlins. Yeah. I was like, sure. What a great 80s movie. I'm pretty sure that was in the bracket challenge. Was it? Yeah, Hugh Dilley. I was drunk. You said no to the Gremlins. My gui. Anyway, dude, I love the Gremlins. I didn't say no to the Gremlins. I said yes to whatever else was there. Futurama, probably. Probably. Futurama, Futurama, Futurama. Anyway. Futurama. But yeah, no. There's 100%. Let's take it all the way back. 100 there's a lot there in the 80s that we don't get any any consideration for for themes for whatever reason because one of the biggest uh tv shows from recent times is stranger things guess what time it's set in the 80s the 80s because that's the demographic of everyone spending money nowadays it just is yeah canada is going to offer his his services for free for uh you know uh american pinball and i just like well that would be easy you just give them a list of 80s shit here's 2080s things yeah canada's 300 an hour which is a joke i'll be like yeah i could also come up with a list of 80s things on a piece of paper and be like here are your themes pay me go play you know yeah make some 80s shit no please no that's what we're saying is that what was last 80s pin 80s theme ghostbusters and it was an awesome thing it was no everyone went apeshit for it if if that game would have been designed just a little bit differently that game might have gone down as the greatest pin of all time no let's be honest 100 you know what the charm of guardians is the 80s music no it's a good example you know what the retro music in general but yeah you know jurassic park's a little after that but guess when that was 93 yeah you know that wasn't that long after the 80s i mean it's the problem is we need more young blood making these decisions yes that's just what it is man it is what it is you gotta we need to get a little younger guys that's why the keith elwyns of the world are making these jurassic parks and they're awesome people are they're skipping over legends like steve richie to get an elwyn game would you ever thought that in a million years no way no but they're looking for something new we want something new i just want i want a list of like two or three things that keith That one can't do very well. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's terrible at algebra.
    33:10
    Calculus, algebra, all that math. Maybe not. He's probably good with scores. Never mind. He's like, oh, math? I'm like a math savant. Yeah, he's like, I don't know anything about My Little Pony.
    33:21
    That's probably a good thing there, Keith. My little sister's great at it. Damn you, Keith. Yeah, it's awesome. When I look at him here, I see Keith. No, I don't. Good for him. Him and that man beard of his. That's a good beard, too. He even makes a good beard. That's what I'm saying. He's a good-looking dude. He's the best pinball player in the world. He's arguably, they're saying he might be one of the greatest designers in the world now, too. Well, current designers, right? Yeah. We have to take total bodies of work. Well, that's kind of the debate because they're saying it's the second game, but two really, really good games. Yeah, no, it's cool. He's there, right? He understands it. Yes. I found it very interesting. the on twip today i was listening uh they're talking about the scoops and how elwyn doesn't put scoops in his game i want to go back one before that when they asked him about the old jurassic park from dailies and he goes oh that game sucks yeah i don't like it people are like what people lost their collective minds because everyone's like oh this is like a a remake of the original jurassic park and this and that he goes nope and i hate scoops and scoops should die no I didn't say that. Great segue to Jurassic Park, buddy. Let's get into it. Man, what do you think? All right, so last episode, we came to a consensus. And even I don't want to say I'm great at inspiring Drew, but I was able to convince Drew my point last episode, and maybe it got lost in translation. I don't know, but I was drunk, and I'm not a very good explainer of things. But right now I'm feeling pretty sober, so I will say this. Jurassic Park, the game, the pinball machine that Keith Elwin has made, the art, unfortunately, does not fit the film franchise. If you were to take... That's me poo-pooing your statement there. If you take Nedry out, you agreed with me last week. Don't poo-poo it. If you took Nedry out, it could have been just a random dino pin. No, I do agree with that. Okay, then stop. Don't you raspberry me. Why don't they do that then? Seriously. I mean. Why don't they what? Do just that. What, Dinosaur Adventureland? Yeah. Take Nedry out and call it Dinosaur Park. Dinosaur Adventureland. Sure. Well, because they pay all this money to call it Jurassic Park. I just thought they would take that money that they paid a lot for and put it into the artwork. I guess. You know what I'm saying? Given what they did, I'm guessing they didn't pay a ton because they didn't get any movie assets. They didn't get any call-outs. They got Nedry. Fine. Yeah. So I'm guessing that license was probably, I don't want to say insignificant, but it probably wasn't a ton. But if you're making art for it, I don't know how it works with license. I don't know. George Gomez, email me. Yeah. We're best friends. But the whole, if you were going to make a Jurassic Park game, I would be very disappointed if I sent my artist out to do it, and then this is what came back. You know what I'm saying? Which part specifically? Do you like any of it? No, because it looks like a comic book. It looks like, like I said last week, it looks like a coloring book slash comic book. Not to say that he did a bad job illustrating everything. Like, the art is fine. However, it doesn't remind me of the movie. Okay, we're not going to spend a ton of time on this, but if you were the art director, what would you have asked your artist to do?
    37:13
    I'm kind of curious now. Because I love the Jurassic Park theme, by the way, just in general. Well, make, you know what, the play field. Let's start with the play field. So you have Nedry in there. That's great. I still, I don't know if likenesses is a thing where they have to pay for each guy they put on the play field. They do, I'm sure.
    37:31
    Well, you know what, there's a lot of. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm. There's a lot of sub characters they could have probably put on there. You don't have to put, you know, Alan Grant on there. You don't have to put the, I forget the other doctors. Well, and I hate to say it, Alan Grant's probably cheaper than, you know. Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah, and Ian Malcolm. But, yes, I agree with you there. But I'm talking, like, the hunter, there's, you know, the guy, clever girl. So you would want to see. John Hammond. You would want to see a Munster-style game, artwork-wise. So, like, let's just say. The play feels fine because of the jungle-esque nature of it, right? That's my point. That's okay. You wouldn't want to see it look like the monsters. When I look up and see the back glasses, I don't like any of the back glasses. That's where I would probably change it. I would have moved. If you only had a few scenes you could illustrate.
    38:25
    Man, put that kitchen scene with the raptors up on the back glass. Put a T-Rex up on the back glass. And that I'm sure they could have done because that's just the freaking dinosaurs. Right. That's all I'm asking. I don't need the characters themselves. What about the T-Rex chasing the Jeep? I understand the cost. Well, they couldn't put the Jeep in there. Well, not the Jeep, but I'm saying just chasing them. George, you know what they could have done, which would have been cool, is recreate that scene in the back glass, but in George Gomez's design. I would have actually appreciated that a little bit more. At least they're trying to make it connect. What about the L.E. having the T-Rex eat the guy off the toilet? Well, is that on the side art? No. But I'm saying, what if it was? That would be pretty awesome. No, I mean, it's, hey, like it or not, it's an iconic scene in the movie. And that's another good segue. You're a segue machine. The animations, I thought, were amazing. They were really good. They did great. I love the extra ball animation where the T-Rex grabs the ball off the toilet. I don't know if I saw that one. Yeah, it's an extra ball. No, I didn't see that one. And the T-Rex goes into the hut, comes down, and there's a pinball on the toilet. Okay. And he grabs the pinball. There you go. Nobody's talking about it. No. I'm like, are you kidding me? I didn't see that part. Okay, that is pretty good. I dig that. That made me smile so freaking much. I was like, there you go. That's what I'm talking about. That's some tongue-in-cheek humor. That's Jurassic Park through and through. We love it because we said last week, the movie Jurassic Park is iconic. The other ones are filler at best. But Jurassic Park. Theme integration, what do you give this thing overall, 1 to 10? uh it was or one to five and what i give it what i give it three three cheese slices i'm probably thinking more two now two cheese slices really yeah the art i mean the art package is like two cheese slices the theme integration i taking into account the artwork i talking about the shots do you feel like you in jurassic park when you looking at a point i know you haven played it yet but we can talk about that because ryan kuiper has played it and ryan guys have played it ryan what do you think about it i looking over at his empty mic right now ryan it's so sad ryan ryan anyway um no ryan ryan said so ryan watched a bunch of people play it the first day because it was mobbed obviously and he said everyone just said it was an amazing game and then he got to play at day two and he said it's better than wonka right it's yeah he liked it better wonka he liked it better than iron maiden he that was the one super high yeah he's iron maiden yeah he says way better very high on the game um he likes both games i think most people said came with that consensus that this is a hell of a shooting game i just i just want to say that yeah two cheese slices for theme integration however those animations are phenomenal and whoever did that at stern i thought they did a great job and i'm only going to say this prematurely because obviously i haven't played it um at this current and like i said this is i don't want to say dream theme but it's up there yeah um i'm not as excited about this as I probably should be.
    41:46
    Is it because you're soured on CERN a little bit? Maybe a little. And I've been playing a lot of Wonka, and I'm really enjoying it. I'm going to have to play it, obviously. And maybe then I'll just completely change. And I'm excited to play it. I really am. That makes two of us. At this current moment, I'm not like... The hype train right now for me isn't like it was for Wonka. How's that? I agree with you 100%. I was shocked how little I cared Yes, there you go Ian just put it into words for me I didn't care I really didn't And Jurassic Park is one of my favorite movies of all time You know why? I feel the same way for Guns and Roses Because I feel like the shit Has been done Give me something new That's what I want That's not how I feel It is new It has some cool mechs It has some cool things in it Yeah, but Jurassic Park has been done as a theme.
    42:46
    So is Skins and Roses. I'm not excited about these two. I'm more excited about Toy Story, and I don't like Toy Story. See, and that's the thing. I'm really excited about Toy Story. Oh, good for you, man. That's a good thing. That's a really good thing. So I don't know. You're right. It's kind of tough. And like I said, no, but when I say it's up there for me in theme, Jurassic Park's probably like top five. Right. So maybe I'll play it. Maybe I'll just say this game's awesome and I want to buy one. But this current moment, I'm like, eh, I'm just kind of lukewarm on it. Yeah, and I'm glad they did it. Don't get me wrong. And I'm glad Keith Elwin fucking nailed it. And I'm glad that they're moving in the right direction, it seems. Yeah, it's all good stuff. Yes. All good stuff. I don't want to harp on it. I'll probably never talk about the art again. I don't give a shit about the art. The art's fine. I honestly don't give a shit. I've aired my grievances, and I'm done with it now. Just talking about the game itself, I'm super excited. But let me just point this out. Yeah. If this was two or three years ago, this would have been the greatest thing ever made because there wasn't as much coming out. The problem is now there literally is a lot coming out. Yeah, yeah. So, and like you said, that's a good thing. The best part about this is we have a great theme. we have a great game and we're like eh if it's not great it's okay because there's so much more coming out so this is the best time to be alive in the united states of america this is the best time to be alive in pinball right absolutely okay it's a nice renaissance it is it is so i'm i'm excited yeah i yeah i agree with you i agree with you i just for my money i know a lot of people are doing the wonko or jurassic park i haven't shot in jurassic park yet so what what would you What would you spend? Okay, so $7,500, you're buying a Wonka. The theme alone, if I were just going on theme alone, I'm a huge, that Wonka. So standard Wonka versus premium Jurassic Park. Wonka still gets me, but I want to play Jurassic Park in the worst way. So don't get me wrong, Stern. Oh, no. I'm going to shoot the shit out of it. That's going to happen. But also, like we talked about, those games are going to be everywhere. Right. 100%. The Jurassic Park Pros literally is going to be at every bar from here to wherever. Yeah. And we're going to play the shit out of them. Yes. Guaranteed. We really are. Yeah. So we'll be okay. We'll be okay. We'll play ourselves. We're excited for it, Ster. Don't get us wrong. We are excited. Part of the reason I haven't bought a Wonka, like I said, I spent this money on these other used games because I want to know what's next. Like I said, if Toy Story was announced tomorrow, I'd probably buy a Toy Story. I'll just be honest. That's probably what's going to happen. Did you hear on Twip about all the mods coming out for Alice Cooper? I haven't even looked at Alice Cooper mods yet. Are they building onto the castles for real? Oh, my God. You have no idea. I had to.
    45:47
    Let me tell you a couple quick stories here. So I went into that thread. Kathleen, the toys are coming home. I put my credit card on the other side of the house because – and I'm not kidding. I literally reached – When was this?
    46:05
    A week or two ago. Okay. I reached into my pocket. I pulled the credit card out. I go into my office, and I put the credit card there. I'm like, I'm going back in the living room because I'm going to look at this. And I'm excited about – you know, we've been talking about these other games. I have an Alice Cooper coming, okay? Possibly the best game of the year. Let's be honest. Okay. Alice Cooper fucking rocks. I played a couple games on it recently at a friend's house. Oh, man. It's so awesome. I am going to put a lot of time on that. So I'm looking at some of these. You know, the first couple, I'm like, yeah, yeah. They're kind of aesthetics, and, you know, it's okay. But then this one guy. I've spent the night, Drew.
    46:45
    He's slumber party. We're going to Jack Danger it and sleep underneath the pinball machines. It's going to be fine. We're pulling an all-nighter, baby. Mediso? How do you say that? medicinal mods no, the other one dude, it's medicinal there's a big fucking red cross on it it's medicinal mods so I'm on Pinside looking at medicinal mods and he has a little passage secret passage sign because the secret passage, it is kind of secret and you can't really see it, it's got a light but he made a little sign says secret passage so i'm like cool so if you have people over you can say shoot for the sign you know it's right there so it's just a little wooden sign it's like you know 30 bucks or whatever i'm like cool but then he's like well you can pair it with this crypt and he made an actual crypt no and it's um it interacts with the um the rgb speaker lights that i got with my game that are coming so like you you can have this you can have this mod and you can just pick a color or if you have these speaker lights you can do the further mod and get this rgb it's a crypt for alice cooper sitting on the upper play field i haven't bought it yet because i'm like i was gonna ask you do you i know the sensitive pinball party is about as close to bolted to your floor as can be yes do you think do you think that alice cooper could possibly be bolted into your floor is there a possibility as a yes okay you just gotta get enough games on it yes yeah simpsons is pretty much bolted i i played it today you're such a simpsons homer that it's yeah ridiculous i love the simpsons it's my favorite show of all time and yeah but um yeah Dude, Simpsons is a good game, and I know you're a big fan of it. Yes. I don't know why it took us so long. I guess we just had to play it, right? Yes. I literally play two games of Simpsons every single day. That's not a bad thing. Your wife may disagree. No. Well, that's the thing. She's usually gone, and I might be watching the kid, and then before I go to work, I turn it on almost every morning. I make some coffee. I drink some coffee. I play a game. How adult of you. Yeah, I know. He throws a bunch of adult shit in there, and then he's like, then I play pinball. Yeah, yeah. I did my taxes. I made some coffee. It happens every morning. I charted the stars, and now I'm going to go play some pinball. And I play like two games. And then the other day I was late for work because I was having this awesome game, and I was like, fuck, I'm going to be late for work. And I was late for work, and I didn't give a shit. Goddamn stud, Drew. Anyways, but yes, Alice Cooper may be bolted. Just because of the shots, the difficulty. That game, I've gotten to Alien Invasion on Simpsons a couple of times. But Alice Cooper, the shots are hard.
    49:48
    Beating all the monsters is tough. I mean, it's fun. I'm excited for it. I'm just thrilled, man. If you ever sell it, give me first dibs. Okay. And I got the scary blue powder coat with the inner decals. I mean, it's a beautiful game. It'll sit next to Monster Bash. There you go. All right. Well, that's it, man. And it'll sit next to my Bram Stoker's Dracula that's coming this week. Stoker's. All episode, last episode, we called it Stoker's. We did, didn't we? The whole fucking episode. I had to Google it. I was like, I don't think it's Stoker's. God damn it. Well, you know what? Nobody emails us anymore. Nope. I'm calling it BSD. It's coming to my house. It's got Ron Jeremy in a casket, but I fucking love it. So it's Bram Stokers, but what's his face?
    50:39
    Dennis Kriza calls it Brom. Brom Stokers. Yeah, they have that debate. We can do that. Brom Stokers. Dracula. It should just be Dracula. I know. And some people call it that. Let's play that game. Just call it Dracula. It's fine. Call it Drac. It's cool. Yeah, dude. That game, that also has some pretty cool mods to it, but I wouldn't mod it. But it's a beautiful game. I can't wait to play that, too. When's that coming? This week. Fuck me. Yeah. Dude, you're going to be on Pinball Nirvana. I know. Your wife is going to be so pissed. Yes, she is. I can't wait. It's going to make me look even better to my wife.
    51:13
    Well, that's it. Let's wrap her up. Yeah, man. Episode 20 in the books. 20 episodes. Can you believe it? Yeah, it's going quick. We made it, man. It's going quick. Yeah, we did it.
    51:24
    Listeners, we really appreciate you, seriously. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us for all this nonsense. and email us at poormanspinball at gmail.com well what else are you going to call it nonsense no I was agreeing I was nodding and saying nonsense totally email us at poormanspinball at gmail.com once again Tim Leonard real sorry about your big Lebowski Kaneda was kind of rubbing it in this week and I didn't want to really touch on it because I'm trying less to talk about the other podcasts we're our own we are awesome You know, we started just thinking we were going to talk about podcasts. And we wanted to be the glue. No, no. And we're like, we're better than some of these other podcasts.
    52:08
    No, we don't mean that. 2025, Twippy Award winners. Boom. 2025, we're campaigning already. No, it's not that we're better, but we just, we want to bring something different. That's all. No, we're, yeah, it's a different.
    52:25
    Yeah, there's definitely a different vibe for our podcast, right? because we're our own people. We are. Our own podcast. We're a legitimate field. And we appreciate you guys spending an hour, sometimes two hours with us every week. 55 minutes to 40 seconds. 55 minutes this week. We're going to edit the shit out of this one. But we love you. We love you out there. Thank you so much for episode 20. Nothing special today, but we will see you next week. Maybe something special next week. We don't even know. I will report how Brom Stroker's Dracula comes. and uh Dracula's getting stroked yeah next week yeah no we'll tell you how it is and uh we'll get that and then uh actually Alice Cooper my Alice Cooper will finish up production soon and um we're gonna take that road trip and go pick it up so we'll let you know how that's all coming along fuck yeah we'll have a spooky holiday spooky spooky spooky love you guys thank you peace out
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