Episode 859: "Barrels of News to Cover!"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·26m 42s·held·Oct 16, 2023

Analysis

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TL;DR

Pre-Expo news dump: Barrels of Fun Labyrinth analysis, Stern pipeline leak (Jaws, D&D, Pokemon), Elvira Redux criticism.

Summary

Kaneda discusses a surge of pinball industry news pre-Expo, covering Barrels of Fun's Labyrinth release (criticizing its C-tier theme but praising build quality and LCD screen placement), multiple Stern Pinball upcoming titles including Jaws, Metallica Anniversary, Dungeons & Dragons, and Pokemon, a new Elvira Red Kiss limited edition, concerns about market oversaturation, and updates on Spooky Pinball dual-themed next release and the Alien Ripley Edition. The episode emphasizes decision-making urgency for collectors facing unprecedented product volume.

Key Claims

Barrels of Fun will sell approximately 1,100 Labyrinth units on launch, not selling out immediately due to C-tier theme appeal
medium confidence · Kaneda speculating on sales velocity based on theme tier assessment
Stern Pinball's next 4-5 titles include: Jaws ($20K super limited edition), Metallica Anniversary Edition (new design with new artists, shelving Dirty Donnie version), Dungeons & Dragons, Pokemon (Jack Danger design), and John Wick
medium confidence · Kaneda citing rumor sources regarding Stern pipeline
Stern is releasing an Elvira Red Kiss Edition with black/white artwork and red accents for $13,000 as a new limited edition
medium confidence · Kaneda discussing Stern's new variant strategy pre-Expo
Spooky Pinball's next dual-themed game features Bug designing Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Ben Heck designing Looney Tunes as alternate themes
low confidence · Kaneda speculating on designer assignments for unrevealed Spooky dual-theme project
American Pinball (Galactic Tank Force) is in major trouble and may be discontinued soon if sales don't improve post-Expo
medium confidence · Kaneda's assessment of American Pinball's market position and Mukesh's ownership decisions
Barrels of Fun has ex-Spooky Pinball staff and is the number one threat to Spooky's market share if they can produce 1,000 units annually
medium confidence · Kaneda analyzing competitive positioning in boutique manufacturer space
The Alien Ripley Edition is not limited by number but by production capacity (essentially an unlimited Premium tier masked as limited)
high confidence · Kaneda directly citing Pinball Brothers' communication about the Ripley variant
David Van Ness transitioned from Spooky Pinball to Barrels of Fun/Deep Root Pinball
high confidence · Kaneda referencing Van Ness's career move and credentials

Notable Quotes

“This is not an A-list theme. I would argue that this isn't even a B-list theme. I think the theme of Labyrinth is more of like a C-rated theme in my book.”
Kaneda @ ~14:00 — Core assessment of Labyrinth's commercial appeal ceiling; defines theme tier framework
“They need to change it. I wish I could stop harping on it, but as a podcaster, I have to say this damn name. I'm going to call them Boff from now on.”
Kaneda @ ~8:00 — Sustained criticism of 'Barrels of Fun' as company name; industry credibility concern
“Seth is going to ruin Stern Pinball. He is going to oversaturate the very people that kept Stern Pinball in business by remaking too many versions of games.”
Kaneda @ ~56:00 — Direct critique of Seth Apter's product strategy; warns of market saturation and collector value destruction
“If Stern makes another version of Batman, I think I might just get out of all pinball collections. I think we're on the razor's Edge right now.”
Kaneda @ ~80:00 — Personal threshold statement on market viability; reflects broader collector burnout risk
“There is no better time to wait and see. Let all these games come out. Let all these distributors buy all of this product because in the end, you're going to be able to negotiate a better price than MSRP.”
Kaneda @ ~82:00 — Strategic advice to buyers on pricing dynamics given market oversupply
“They put the LCD screen in the right spot in the pinball machine. They put it in the back of the game underneath the glass. That creates such a more dynamic gameplay environment.”
Kaneda @ ~25:00 — Praise for Labyrinth's technical design innovation (vs. JJP Toy Story 4 criticism)
“Nothing is collectable until the collectors deem it to be so.”
Kaneda @ ~68:00 — Philosophy on collectibility; warns against manufacturer-driven 'limited' marketing
“I can't wait to see Elton John in like three days, people. It's about to get bonkers this week.”

Entities

Kanedaperson Barrels of Funcompany David Van Nessperson LabyrinthgameSeth ApterpersonStern PinballcompanyJawsgame

Signals

?
product_launch: Barrels of Fun Labyrinth officially launched with polished video marketing; ~1,100 units predicted to sell without instant sell-out due to C-tier theme tier; fully optioned at $12K
high · Kaneda detailing launch execution, video release, and sales velocity prediction
?
machine_intel: Stern Pinball pipeline allegedly includes Jaws (Keith Ellin, $20K super limited), Metallica Anniversary (new design, new artists), Dungeons & Dragons, Pokemon (Jack Danger), and John Wick
medium · Kaneda citing rumor sources for 4-5 confirmed upcoming titles; framed as 'broken' information
?
product_strategy: Stern Pinball pursuing aggressive re-release and variant strategy (Elvira Red Kiss Edition as third LE variant) driven by new factory capacity, threatening collector secondary market value
high · Kaneda directly criticizing Seth Apter's strategy and predicting Batman re-release; framed as collector burnout risk
$
market_signal: Galactic Tank Force LE secondary pricing declining toward $8-9K due to closed sales window and incoming competitor games; Labyrinth secondary market potentially vulnerable
medium · Kaneda predicting GTF price decline and articulating secondary market vulnerability for oversaturated variants
?
business_signal: American Pinball (Mukesh ownership) in major trouble; potential discontinuation of GTF line if post-Expo sales don't improve
medium · Kaneda assessing American Pinball as having no compelling pipeline and Mukesh considering shutdown

Transcript

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Welcome everybody happy Monday, Kaneda is back from California. And oh my gosh, has there been a plethora of pinball news just popping. I feel like the pinball dam has burst right before Expo. We've got all of these news items. I can't keep up with Naps Arcade on a daily basis. And we're going to talk all about it on this episode of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Look, there's only so many rumors and scoops I can give you, but it's been really fun tag teaming with Jason and delivering all of this exciting stuff for each and every one of you because as I've always tried to do on this show, I think when you know More information, you can make more educated decisions. And oh my gosh, are we going to have to start making some decisions with all of these games coming out? Is Seth Davis going to ruin Stern Pinball with another version of Elvira? We're going to talk about that. Ellen Ripley version of Alien Pinball coming to Pinball Expo. And of course, Barrels of Fun and the freaking Labyrinth game. We've seen so much Labyrinth news. Now the main question is, are you going to buy one? And do you see enough? Trade Pablings, I've given you some thoughts about this game on Facebook. Let's talk all about this game by barrels of fun. See how bad it sounds when you say out loud the name of the company. It's just really bad. They need to change it. I wish I could stop harping on it, but as a podcaster, I have to say this damn name. I'm going to call them Boff from now on. Even that sounds terrible. All right, so this game is out, and I will say this right now. This is not a dream theme for me, but if you love this movie and I've heard from people who love this movie, Jim Henson's Labyrinth from 1986 David Bowie, Jennifer Connelly. Now she's not in this game at all. I'm not sure if you're playing as her in the game or it's more about just an unknown traveler that you are going through the labyrinth. So let's tackle this labyrinth release. First and foremost, I thought the release went off very well. It was nice to see a company release a game, have a video out there that was nicely polished, a two minute trailer video. Everything about the launch of this The end of the day, the game went off pretty smoothly. I like the fact that they teased what the theme was gonna be. We guessed it was gonna be the labyrinth. It was the labyrinth. And so, you know, they ripped the bandaid off a little bit early. We all know it's gonna be Elton John from Jersey Jack Pinball and still they're keeping it a secret which might blow up in their face a little bit but we knew it was gonna be the labyrinth. And then we got the video, the teaser video on Friday. And look, it's only Monday and we're gonna get a full gameplay video of this thing with Bo and Karen's released Tuesday. I'm here with my two guests, John Papadiuk and Frank Pagano, from Wormhole Pinball in Texas. It's a secret pinball club in Texas and they brought the game there and they're going to show us the gameplay of the game. Look, this is what I like. You're going to get to see a lot of stuff on this game before you have to buy one. And I always like this because remember, these are $1,000 non-refundable deposits. So one question I always get is, do you think this thing is going to sell out just on the launch alone? And I don't. I think they're going to sell 1100 of these games on this launch alone and I think the reason why it's not going to sell out instantly is the theme itself. This is not an A-list theme. I would argue that this isn't even a B-list theme. I think the theme of Labyrinth is more of like a C-rated theme in my book, in my honest opinion and the reason why I'm saying that is all the years I've been on Pinside, all In all the years I've talked to people about what kind of themes they want in pinball, I haven't seen many people say they've been clamoring for a Jim Henson's Labyrinth Pinball Machine. Now, that being said, I think it is very impressive that a brand new company, brand new to the pinball world, they were able to come out of the gate with a licensed theme game. We don't normally see that because it's hard to secure a licensed IP when you don't have any pinball experience. You can't prove to these license holders that you know what you're doing. And this is why David Van Es working over at Spooky Pinball was such to his advantage because they were able to showcase. Hey, we know what we're doing. We've been part of this company. We've made these games before. We are simply branching out and starting a new pinball company with the worst name in the history of pinball company other than Deep Root. But why would you want to be part of that company? But look change the name guys, change the name once again, really disappointed. Hi, my friends over there. Blake Dumasnil, I know you're listening to this. I know you're part of this company, Blake. I was happy to see it. How can I have friends who are associated with this company know that I know how to do some marketing and naming and branding and they name it barrels of fun? I can't. I can't. I gotta stop. I gotta stop. They're gonna ruin my show. Alright, so they launched the game and look, the response has been great. I think everyone's looking down at this game and saying, hey, there's a lot there. There's a lot there. And I hear the phrase over and over again. I gonna give these guys credit They created a world under glass I see a lot of scopes I see a lot of interactivity I see characters popping up and down And the thing that I love that they did the most they put the LCD screen in the right spot in the pinball machine They put it in the back of the game underneath the glass That creates such a more dynamic gameplay environment and I been asking companies to do this all along It so weird to me that so many games just have static artwork there when you could fill it with so much stuff and it the perfect place to put it because it doesn eat up any real estate where you want there to be physical mechanisms I mean look at the usage of that LCD screen in Labyrinth and then look at where Jersey Jack put the damn LCD screen on Toy Story 4. They ate up half of the upper playfield where they could have put an interesting toy or mechanism and they put a screen. 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I'm not going to be pointing out stuff on this playfield. I'm going to talk about it in more generic terms. I'm not going to be like, there's weasel boot pops out over here. I have no idea who these goblins are. Okay, so let's talk about the game itself real quickly. Now look, we have to play the game. I want to play the game. We're going to get many chances to play this game from a design standpoint. I don't think there's anything truly unique about the design. It looks a little bit like a traditional three flipper game or like half of the game looks more like a fan layout. Canücklich envạt hub giveaway, rave aí New Topic prohibitch eyes or do or Wellant, 움직onılar Tamamlungs 謝謝 James a'onnah philurpnie National Jatra andвой Mr. Quamankrill的人 taru asked me what they called every day that manBeep sweetie for a football game throw that very istorius and Istros andeiguni what Alembly a hut15 times a common idea of the bird and of life that's been so most? The game is a very good game. It's got a tremendous quality playfield, so I think everybody's happy about that. Now what do I think about this game aesthetically? Well, I think you're really gonna love this game aesthetically if you really like the color brown. There is a lot of brown in this game, and that's derivative of the movie itself. The labyrinth has a very brownish look to it. The Muppet characters in the labyrinth have a very dark brownish color hue to them. And so if you love the color brown, this is the game for you. The game for you. You know, and from an artistic standpoint, like nothing about the artwork is blowing me away. Look, we have so much good artwork now in pinball that to stand out in the art department, I think you have to start getting really interesting and much more creative. I think these pinball companies need to start thinking about artwork a little bit differently and how they lay things out. It's like nothing's really popping from me. You know, when you look at this game, obviously the big David Bowie face on the translite Pasta incompressible, obstructory-of-ania- virtuosity bouncy broke, igns to mine, double-element mute, and openogan interactisini денегcessors, and openicionering of ценござ니jna, and full épile-trite jackab lagaus braun incorrecta ode a wire speak enchiric I'm sure this is exciting you on that front. And so a lot of brown and then I'm looking at this interactive topper which is sold separately for $995 and look I was watching the interactivity of it and here's the thing it's like you've got these goblins up there their eyes light up and I think they move a little bit but their mouths do not open at least not in the video and so it's kind of weird to me that if the goblins are talking and the topper is interactive why wouldn't you make their tu interlins a great Bard who gets up in here to be honest with me you're a performanteur of the installation and if you're here save a gram instead of a choose here and in Pekin Get Top Warrior, he wrote a line this code here to man down chance never to be金 I guess I yeah same cred blood ethата I get it. I'd rather have this than flat plastic. But again, there's just something about goblins and sticking those big goblin head in the middle on top of your game. I don't know. Again, it's just not for me, people. It's just not for me. So there we have it. Labyrinth Pinball. We're going to hear so much about this game. Here's my prediction about this game. I think this game is going to do all right. I think they will eventually most likely sell all of these machines as people in the pinball industry get sick and tired of Stern Pinball. I think this company is the number one threat right now to Spooky Pinball. This company has a lot of ex-spooky people and so if this company can make a thousand games in a calendar year, they're going to steal sales away from Spooky Pinball because now you have more options. There's too many options in pinball right now. There are just too many and we're seeing what Stern is doing. They're going to keep coming. I'm going to make new games and they're going to bring back a lot of the older titles as well all at the same time and they're going to oversaturate this pinball market if it is not oversaturated already. But I do think these guys are a huge threat to spooky pinball. They're obviously a big, big threat to American pinball. American pinball's greatest threat is simply American pinball because they don't have a game on the line that people want and they don't seem to have anything coming anytime soon after this game. They're in major trouble. I think Mukesh might pull the plug on this thing any month now if sales don't pick up after Expo. But who's actually going to go to Expo, play Galactic Tank Force with all of these new games available and select Galactic Tank Force? The ship has sailed on the sales window for GTF. Now the prices are going to keep going down and down and down, and you're going to be able to get an LE for like eight or nine thousand dollars any day now. All right let move on to Stern Pinball rumors because there a lot of Stern Pinball rumors I almost need like two pinball podcasts to cover off on all of this So look let talk about first Stern future titles So look this thing is broken Like it almost like we know Stern next like four to five titles Let's talk about them real quickly. We got Jaws Pinball from Keith Ellin. I'm hearing there's going to be a super limited edition of Jaws Pinball. If I were to guess, I think it will be $20,000 and I think Stern Pinball is going to sell some directly. I think some distros are going to do their call for price thing, which I can't stand. And I bet when you call them for price, they're initially going to start out at $25,000 and then they're going to pull it back to $20,000. Just saying this stuff out loud is kind of making me sick inside. I kind of want to buy Rolex watches now and not pinball machines. So after Jaws, I am hearing we are going to get a Metallica anniversary edition game. Now, does this mean it's going to be an all new game with all new artwork? I am hearing it is going to be a newly designed Metallica game. I am hearing it is going to have new artists. I think they are shelving Dirty Donnie's version of Metallica. Now, does this mean it's an all new game or new layout? Can you still use Lyman Sheets' code if you do a new design layout of the game? I don't think that's ever been done before, right? Keep the old code because it's amazing and just move stuff around a little bit to Time to give people a new gameplay experience. So more to come on Metallica anniversary edition and then the new title which nobody was talking about until Kaneda put it out there is Dungeons and Dragons Pinball. I am hearing Dungeons and Dragons is coming. Is that going to be a John Bohr game? Is it going to be based on the new movie that just came out? Is it going to be based on the old like comic books for cartoon series for Dungeons and Dragons? I do not know yet, but we do know that Dungeons and Dragons is coming out from Stern Pinball. And then after that, the big rumor is like supposedly they're going to be bringing out one of the biggest properties in the world in Pokemon. And Pokemon is going to be a Jack Danger title. Wow. If Pokemon comes out from Stern Pinball as a Jack Danger title, they are going to print money with that game. And then we're supposed to get after Pokemon, John Wick. The order of when they do things but that's a lot of new titles from Stern Pinball that we now know are coming out. Nothing is really a secret anymore in the world now that we got Jason Knapp and Kaneda reporting off on this stuff in real time. Like you can't keep up with both of us. But even though we know all this stuff Stern is still able to surprise us with this new version of Elvira. This Elvira like red kiss edition version of the game. So here's the thing. It's going to be a fully The game is a black and white game just like they did with the Munsters. The only color in the game will be the red on her lips and I think it's going to have red armor like sparkly armor as well. Now here's my thing about this. This is basically a new limited edition of Elvira. It is going to be $13,000. Now you've got the third limited edition version of Elvira. Mark my words when I say this Seth is going to ruin Stern Pinball. He is going to oversaturate the very people that kept Stern Pinball in business by remaking too many versions of games. If you make all of these games not special by having so many different new variations of older titles that collectors were finally seeing some secondhand value on. If you destroy people's secondhand value on their games, King County Delta lee.com Looking for grateful people at how mankind interwoven or sneakers and postcard cops out the second hand market the A special. And this is my fear because now that Stern is in this new factory, we're just going to see them do this over and over and over again. You know, every Batman owner now is worried they're going to do another run of Batman now that it's the 60th anniversary of Batman, so why not do another run of that game, and then do another run of Ghostbusters and another run of Tron and just keep on going and going until we all look down at our pinball collections and realize, wow, I just spent and a hundred thousand dollars on six pinball machines and they've all lost a lot of value that is not the hobby we love that is not why we're in pinball so yes stern's gonna be bringing these Elvira editions to pinball Expo I'm sure they're gonna be beautiful but again I don't think they're gonna sell out I think people have been burned one too many times with all these different variations and I also think now that you know back to the future is coming out from Dutch pinball I think a lot of you are gonna wait for that I think you're going to wait for Jaws. I don't think you're going to throw your money instantly at all of these like new additions of old Stern machines because the other thing is this right doesn't it already feel like Stranger Things Coming Back was like six months ago. No, they just released that like a couple weeks ago. So now they're rerunning more Elvira's. You know, you just can't keep up with it. And I think everything Stern is doing right now feels like they planned all of this during the COVID hype moment of pinball. or 的时候, 君x, doan, I seen this word thrown around a lot like collectable I saw in the marketing materials for Labyrinth or like a collectable new game And I telling you right now nothing is collectable until the collectors deem it to be so But trust me when I say this There were some great ideas and monitors which I definitely would like to hear more and only After the Tiamei podcast at the interactive היה3fm of The MVPMber What's happening over at Stern pinball? There's a lot of games coming out. I would just say wait for Jaws. Alright, let's talk about Spooky Pinball real quick. They are gonna do their next game, I believe, is gonna be another dual-themed game. Which means one design, but each game will be a radically different theme. We saw it with Halloween and Ultraman. Obviously Ultraman bombed, and you can go get like a collector's edition of Ultraman now for like 5800 bucks. I don't think they're going to make the same mistake again, but here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that Bug is designing Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which leaves the other game to Ben Heck. Now, I think Ben Heck's game is going to be the game that we rumored a while ago. I think it's going to be Looney Tunes. Mr. Ben Heck doing Looney Tunes as the alternate version to Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And you couldn't pick two themes at the complete opposite end of the spectrum. So we shall see if this is going to be the case. They are not going to reveal this game until maybe the end of the year, probably sometime in February, I would imagine. But as soon as they're nearing the end of the Scooby-Doo run, best believe we will see the next two games from Spooky Pinball. I mean, are you counting how many games I'm talking about? And I haven't even finished yet. Now we've got a new version of Alien. Ellen Ripley is now in the game. Remember when Andrew Highway said he was not able to get her but we'll see what we can find out then that's a lot of great work