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WAP #Kaneda Don Cengiz Live: Pokemon

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 30m·analyzed·Apr 24, 2026
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

WAP hosts review Pokemon Pinball, praise design, note thin code launch, discuss secondary market dynamics.

Summary

Don, Cengiz, and Kaneda conduct a live review of Stern's Pokemon Pinball Limited Edition and Pro models, discussing artwork, audio, layout, and gameplay. They note the game ships with minimal code compared to typical Stern releases, speculate about licensing delays affecting Insider Connected integration, and observe strong secondary market pricing ($23,000 initial flips declining to $2,500-$3,000 over MSRP). The group praises the satisfying shot layout and theme execution while highlighting gaps in available content.

Key Claims

  • Stern sent a Google Doc to dealers with Pokemon characters next to LE serial numbers before Stern decided not to include character-specific plaques, causing customer confusion about ordering specific Pokemon editions.

    high confidence · Don/Cengiz discussing miscommunication around LE variants during order process

  • Pokemon Pinball LE originally had character-specific plaques planned but Pokemon Company rejected the idea because they didn't want certain LE versions to appear more valuable than others.

    high confidence · Don explaining Pokemon Company licensing constraints on variant exclusivity

  • Gomez (the designer) has stated that Ash will not appear in Pokemon Pinball because players are cast as the trainer and the game takes place in later Pokemon seasons.

    high confidence · Cengiz referencing confirmed statement from Gomez about character licensing decisions

  • Gomez has said he is still waiting for approval from Pokemon Company/licensor to enable Insider Connected on Pokemon Pinball.

    medium confidence · Cengiz saying 'Gomez went into a chat recently and said that he's still waiting for approval to turn on Insider Connected for this game'

  • Pokemon Pinball shipped with notably less code than typical Stern releases at launch, with only one environment available (forest) out of four planned and limited Pokemon varieties in play.

    high confidence · Multiple speakers (Donnie, Cengiz, Chris) noting barren code, only ~20 Pokemon in rotation, and expectation of significant future updates

  • The Pokemon Pinball LE art was arranged by Zombie Yeti and his daughter, not designed by Zombie Yeti himself.

    high confidence · Cengiz crediting 'Zombie Yeti and his daughter' for art direction and arrangement

  • Chris sold a Pokemon Pinball LE for $23,000 on the secondary market; current LE prices have declined to $2,500-$3,000 over MSRP as more units ship.

    high confidence · Chris and Donnie discussing secondary market flipping prices and cooling trend

Notable Quotes

  • “It's uplifting for me.”

    Cengiz @ ~1:45:00 — Cengiz's single-word description of Pokemon Pinball; Don and Chris immediately mock it as the 'corniest adjective to describe a pinball machine ever uttered on live'

  • “Don, on the sneak-in, what's the guy's name, the sneak-in shot? Psyduck. When it ejects, is it supposed to eject strong enough to hit the captive ball up? Because mine hits the captive ball, but not with enough force to register.”

    Chris @ ~0:30:00 — Raises specific mechanical question about Psyduck shot behavior and captive ball interaction that reflects uncertainty about design intent

  • “I mean, the license of this game wasn't cheap. So I think there will come a lot of more code. But everybody's waiting. Come on, man. Come with the code, right?”

    Don @ ~1:10:00 — Expresses frustration about sparse launch code and expectation that Pokemon licensing cost justifies future updates

  • “Gomez has said it. He's not. You play as the trainer, and it's not going to be Ash. And it takes place in later seasons of Pokemon, so he's not in it.”

    Cengiz @ ~1:25:00 — Confirms designer's licensing position on Ash character; shuts down recurring community speculation

  • “I think that's fair. Dude, that's cleverly done. I love it. I mean, if I had the LE, I would have done it also, but yeah. It's a misnomer, right? Well, the Pokemon company didn't want it for that exact reason.”

    Don and Cengiz discussing Zach's numbered Pokemon plaques @ ~0:15:00 — Reveals Pokemon Company licensing constraint that killed character-specific LE variants to prevent collector perception of variant value hierarchy

  • “$23, 000. Did you hear that, Donnie? I hear it in my dreams. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm not getting that anymore, though.”

    Chris and Don discussing secondary market flip pricing @ ~1:50:00 — Chris's LE flip price and Don's envious reaction illustrate secondary market peak; Don's follow-up acknowledges market has cooled

  • “It's barren. It is very barren. I mean, you can literally get to the game in 30 minutes.”

Entities

DonpersonCengizpersonKanedapersonChrispersonStern PinballcompanyGomezpersonZombie Yetiperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Pokemon Pinball LE secondary market pricing peaked at $23,000 (Chris's flip) and has cooled to $2,500-$3,000 over MSRP as supply increases. Speakers predict further price decline as units find permanent homes, with potential stabilization once code improves.

    high · Chris sold for $23k; current market $2,500-$3k over; Donnie noting 'slowing down'; Cengiz predicting 'settle in a nice price' post-code updates

  • ?

    code_update: Pokemon Pinball shipped with significantly sparse code compared to typical Stern releases. Only ~20 Pokemon in rotation, one environment (forest) of four planned, and Insider Connected still awaiting licensor approval. Speakers expect substantial future updates.

    high · Multiple sources: 'barren,' 'you can literally get to the game in 30 minutes,' 'not much,' 'still waiting for approval,' 'so much more coming for this game'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Pokemon Company licensing imposed specific constraints on Pokemon Pinball: rejected character-specific LE variants to prevent value hierarchy perception, excluded Ash character (game set in later seasons with player as trainer), and delayed Insider Connected activation pending approval.

    high · Pokemon Company didn't want LE variants to feel like 'certain versions are worth more'; Gomez confirmed Ash exclusion; Insider Connected approval still pending

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pokemon Pinball deliberately designed with wide-open, accessible shot layout and simplified mechanics. Cengiz notes players can 'get through whole game in 20 minutes' in 'guard mode' by comboing; theme/aesthetic drive engagement over rules complexity.

    high · Cengiz: 'simple. You go into guard mode. You combo, combo, combo. You get through the whole game in 20 minutes'; Chris: 'fan layout. The shots are wide open'; notes theme carries game over mechanical depth

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.273

0:00
And now for your listening pleasure, it's the triple threat of Don Gengiz and Kaneda together all talking about Pokemon Pinball as seen live on the Don's Pinball Podcast channel. Listen to this. Dude, I just got a message. Don's Pinball Podcast, see live now. What? Shut up. We are live. Oh, my God. Crazy. Dude, I just got a message. That's cool. Chris, are we live on your YouTube channel also? No, no, we're just live on Don's. Yeah. Oh, OK. All right. There's the link. Yes, it's working. This is cool. Yeah. So can we talk trash about Pokemon now? Let's do it. No, man. I love Pokemon. So, OK. So this is being recording on as a podcast somewhere and also on your YouTube channel, right? Absolutely. Hello, everybody. Welcome to WAP. I got Jengiz. I got Kaneda. We got the triple threat headed monster master of pinball. I don't know. I recorded this cool intro. I could drop it into the actual one, but that'll suffice for now. Hi, everybody. We're live.
1:05
What's up? Happy Saturday. People are showing up. This is crazy. We have people on the tab. This is awesome.
1:15
Hi, Daddy. Oh, my wife is here, too. I'm working. Oh, Monica, Jack. Hi, Monica. Jack was her ex's name. She just kept the email. Nice. Okay. All right, everybody. So we're live. We're going to have some fun. We're going to talk Stern Pokemon Pinball today. Look at the background on Kaneda's picture. I got one of the LEs. Everybody's waiting on their LE, it seems. It's a pro, man. He just installed some live on the site.
1:51
Have you ever brought a pro before? No. No? No. How about you, Donnie? I got a Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro because that's the one to get. But I put a metal apron in it. I'm not a savage.

Flipper power defaults on Pokemon Pinball allow backhanding both ramps easily on Pro, but some players report needing to adjust flipper power settings.

medium confidence · Cengiz and Donnie discussing flipper configuration and backhand ramp accessibility on Pro model

  • The Psyduck shoot-in on Pokemon Pinball uses a triple captive ball mechanism (caroming between three balls) designed by Jack Danger before the project transitioned to Gomez.

    medium confidence · Don speculating that Jack Danger likely designed the triple captive ball feature before departure from the project

  • Pokemon Pinball LE stands out visually as one of Stern's nicest LE art packages ever, but lacks foil/embossed decal finishes present on recent premium titles like Batman SLE and Elvira variants.

    high confidence · Cengiz noting LE art quality versus Pro/Premium tier, Donnie wishing for foil/Radcal treatment

    • Don @ ~1:05:00 — Characterizes sparse launch code state; indicates game can be completed/exhausted in under an hour

  • “But if this game was Princess Pony, you wouldn't care. But because of its Pokemon, the colors, the sound, the audio, the combo shots like Chris said, the right orbit with the spinner, it's just so satisfying to shoot.”

    Cengiz @ ~1:40:00 — Acknowledges that Pokemon IP and aesthetic carry the game over its relatively simple/accessible layout

    • Zach
    person
    Jack Dangerperson
    Travisperson
    Raidenperson
    Pokemon Pinballgame
    We Are Pinballorganization
    Pokemon Companycompany
    Medieval Madnessgame
    Lord of the Rings Pinballgame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Batman SLEgame
    Elvira (Blood Red Kiss / 40th Anniversary)game
    Walking Dead (remaster)game
    Insider Connectedproduct
    Josh Coxperson
    Bradperson
    Monicaperson
  • ?

    product_concern: Minor manufacturing/quality issues noted: stand-up target decals falling off due to poor adhesive (affecting multiple units), occasional intermittent flipper activation, and general finish concerns (lack of foil/Radcal versus recent premium Stern releases).

    medium · Donnie: 'one of the stand up targets, the purple one...just the decal fell off'; Cengiz: 'sometimes my left flipper might flip on its own'; both lamenting lack of foil vs. Batman SLE/Elvira finishes

  • ?

    collector_signal: Secondary LE market dynamics show strong initial FOMO ($23k flips) cooling to moderate 2-3k premiums as supply stabilizes. Collectors waiting on code improvements before holding long-term; current zeitgeist suggests buy now at cooler prices rather than flip-hold strategy.

    high · Chris's $23k flip; current $2,500-$3k market; Donnie warning flippers 'too late'; Cengiz: 'now is the time to maybe grab one if you missed out'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Speakers consistently praise shot flow, ramp satisfaction, and kinetic feedback (left orbit/back ramp loop, Charmander orbit, center shot). Layout accessibility benefits newer/casual players; shot angles optimized for satisfying feedback despite mechanical simplicity.

    high · Chris: 'so satisfying about the shots,' 'love ripping the left orbit'; Cengiz: 'satisfying to shoot'; note on flipper angle enabling control; 'I'm finally good at pinball'

  • ?

    community_signal: Active mod community adding cosmetic enhancements: Zach's numbered Pokemon plaques ($27k Charizard buyer), Raiden's whirlpool swirl bowl and animatronic Pikachu tail ($200), Pokédex figure additions. Speakers debating custom mod value vs. original aesthetic purity.

    medium · Discussion of plaque-making, Raiden's mods, debate over changing green start button to Pokéball, adding Pokédex figure above captive ball

  • ?

    design_innovation: Pokemon Pinball features triple captive ball on Psyduck shot (ball caroms between three positions). Don speculates Jack Danger designed this before Gomez took over, noting it goes beyond simple captive ball design. Functional purpose/shot consistency still being debugged by players.

    medium · Don: 'could have just been a simple captive ball with a little stand-up target...didn't have to be a ball that caroms to another ball'; Chris's questions about eject power/consistency suggest ongoing tuning

  • ?

    industry_signal: Pokemon Pinball transitioned designer responsibility from Jack Danger to Gomez mid-project. Don attributes specific mechanical features (triple captive ball) to Jack Danger's early work before Gomez finalized design.

    medium · Don: 'I was trying to decide, like, what Jack Danger is in this game before it just went to Gomez'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Strong positive sentiment toward art direction and theme integration. Cengiz rates LE art 10/10, notes it's 'one of Stern's nicest LE art packages ever' and 'doesn't look like Stern we're used to'; praising Zombie Yeti/daughter's art arrangement as 'refreshing' and 'adorable, colorful, inviting.'

    high · Cengiz: '10 out of 10'; Don: 'nine'; both praising bold yellow, pastoral scene, authentic Pokemon assets; Cengiz: 'I got bashed for this' saying 'It's so good. It doesn't look like Stern'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Speakers speculate on future code content: Jigglypuff singing mode, Team Rocket battles/Giovanni intensity, multiple environment locations (3 more beyond forest), later Pokemon evolution chains unlocking sequentially, enhanced announcer callouts during battles.

    medium · 'There's going to be like a Jigglypuff singing mode...campiness of the characters'; 'imagine when you can progress far enough...go head to head with Giovanni'; 'we haven't even gotten to the other three environments'

    • 2:05
    Yeah. All right, guys. So we're going to start the show with Pokemon. Chris has got the LE. How about you, Donnie? Yeah, yeah. I got to unbox two LEs, actually. But yeah, number 60. It's in the house. I got Poliwag.
    2:20
    Okay. And what number do I have, Chris? Number 50. You got the Diglett. I got Diglett, baby. Have you seen online? Some people are making some plaques with Pokemon on them. We know who, yes.
    2:37
    Who is it? Zach's dude. It's Zach because he sold some. I think the dude who bought the Charizard paid like $27,000. So the least you can do is make the dude a little plaque. Yeah, yeah. I think that's fair. Dude, that's cleverly done. I love it. I love it. I mean, if I had the LE, I would have done it also, but yeah. It's a misnomer, right? Well, the Pokemon company didn't want it for that exact reason. They don't want people to feel like there are certain versions of the LE that are worth more. Yeah.
    3:15
    If it was a handful of like foil rad-called LEs and you could like randomly unbox one. But everyone would have wanted to, you know, have the Pikachu version or Jigglypuff version or whatever. It's a great idea. Yeah. I think they must have intended to originally do it. It was weird, though, that when they sent the order form for picking your special number, Ellie, did you guys see the Google Doc Stern sent to the dealers? It had the characters next to the numbers before people didn't know the plaques were not going to contain that. That's why everyone thought they had to order specific Pokemon additions. So Stern could have done a better job managing all of that miscommunication. They didn't. It sounds like they're allowed to write. They wanted to. Yeah, I think they wanted to put a card, too, on the specific game, too. And they were like, yeah, no, you can't. You don't understand. You can't do that. Yeah, these people are literally armed security guards are like protecting the dudes that drop off the cards at like Costco or whatever. Dude, I've been exploring this fandom, right? Because there's people that just have whole YouTube channels of just unboxing cards and things. And like people are finding out where they live and they're breaking into their apartments and stealing their whole collections. Like it's crazy.
    4:36
    I saw this like break. You know how like people are like robbing Louis Vuitton, you know, flash mob in it. They did it to like a Pokemon card store. There's a great like recently just nuts, like just smashing. And they're just grabbing like the new boxes of the sealed cards and just running out. Like who knew? Yeah. Do you know, is it only the old carts that are worth a lot of money or can you buy a box for like 10 bucks and have a cart that's like $20 million or something? No, I think the new stuff, some can be worth like a few hundred to a couple thousand. You're not going to get the $100,000, $500,000 like first run Charizards. I think those are the ones. When people weren't collecting them, it's the ones that are worth the most. This is fun. Let's listen to three pinball guys try to explain the Pokemon card hobby.
    5:28
    I was trying to wrap my head around it like why are people paying so much for these cards, right? And then like a Team Rocket edition or like set came out in Japan and people were going around to 7-Elevens. You could only buy two booster packs at a time. So they were buying them all and they were trying to assemble the entire collection of that. So if you're somebody that needs three cards to complete that collection, that's when you'll pay money for that specific one online just to finish your collection. So you can have that binder that's full. So I think I'm finally starting to understand. Not that I don't think I would get into this, but I think that's why some cards, if you get them, you can sell them online to somebody. That's who's buying them.
    6:06
    Okay. Makes sense. Yeah. Makes sense. So, Chris, the version you have got was with Diglett, right? No, I'm number 50.
    6:18
    Isn't that the Diglett number? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We already said that. Ketchup, ketchup. How cool would it be if you bought small Diglett figurines and put it on the somewhere somewhere? Could you make a Diglett version? So, Don, you have the LE too. I like everything about the way this game comes out of the box. The mod community is throwing all this stuff on everywhere. It's just – just enjoy the beauty, the simplicity of what is Pokemon. Yeah, like the huge whirlpool swirl that Raiden made. That bowl already takes up so much room, so it's like that's just even more. I can see little things like putting a little Psyduck above the Psyduck shoot-in would be kind of cool. Getting your specific numbered Pokemon and sticking it on a plastic somewhere might be okay. Although I did see Raiden added that animatronic tail to Pikachu, so when his head turns, the tail wags, which I kind of want it. Yeah, I saw that. It's like $200. Yeah, that doesn't bother me as much. I like that, yeah. And then someone put a little Pokédex because, you know, it's not really clear that the captive ball is the Pokédex. There's no figure above it. It's just an insert. I was trying to decide, like, what Jack Danger is in this game before it just went to Gomez. And I think that, you know, triple captive ball thing is probably something he came up with because that could have just been a simple captive ball with a little stand-up target behind it. It didn't have to be a ball that caroms to another ball that caroms to another one. So I think that might have been a little bit of what he was thinking, just to make it a little more fun, which it is. It's cool. Yeah, it's cool. It's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they could have just made it a stand-up target, right? Don, on the sneak-in, what's the guy's name, the sneak-in shot? Psyduck. When it ejects, is it supposed to eject strong enough to hit the captive ball up? Because mine hits the captive ball, but not with enough force to register. Mine's ejecting directly to the stand-up target next to the captive ball. Yeah. Okay. So that's – I think the default power does that. So it should hit that target, probably not the captive ball. Yeah, but my game may not be perfectly centered left to right because I didn't bother with that nonsense. It seemed to be playing just fine, so I was just playing it. So I guess that would be a good question for the designer. Like, is it supposed to go anywhere specific? Can you control the power that's in there? Is it a saucer eject or is it like a coil?
    8:46
    I don't know. I haven't looked under there. But mine's hitting the stand-up target. I have no idea what you're talking about. Cengiz, on the pro, can you backhand both ramps? Yeah. Yeah, easily. Easily. Easily, yeah. Mine's like, I think I need to up my power. I took the power down on the flippers. I don't know. People gave me some suggested numbers. Maybe they're too low. But on the default, you should be able to backhand both ramps. Yeah. On the Pro, you can. It's the same. But did you take power down on the trough? Yeah. Oh, shoot. I have to do that. Thanks for reminding me. Yeah. That's important, man. I know. I know. I know. Yeah. I'll drop my trough power. How many games have you played? Do you have any flipper stop issues?
    9:37
    Nothing. I've had a little sometimes my left flipper might flip on its own, like like an intermittent flip at times. Maybe, maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I don't know. You didn't go into the secret day mode in Pokemon. Yeah. I mean, it's been pretty. Mine really hasn't had any issues. I just one of the stand up targets, the purple one next to the left ramp, just the decal fell off. So I had a just little dab of super glue underneath it and then. Are you talking about the stand-up targets by the left ramp? Yeah, the purple one. Okay, I just noticed mine are missing too and I can't find them, so they must have fallen off somewhere. Yeah, the adhesive is not good and it's taking a direct hit like hard. Okay, I thought there was something on there and I noticed on mine like two of them were missing. And then usually they sit in the middle of the play field and you can grab them and stick them back up there. But maybe they went into the trough. All right, I'll be on the hook for that. I was listening to Triple Drain and Travis did a good job like talking through what code is in this game now. I didn't know there was a battle Charizard wizard mode and I got to it the other day after listening to him. So that was fun. If you play like all four of the character modes, then you can shoot the Pikachu ramp and then you get this battle of the Charizard. So that was fun. Yeah, I got to that for the first time today. And it's not super easy to go through all four characters and catch your Pokemon. You notice how catching them gets harder too, which is what I like. You need more shots. So it's not just going to be like chopping wood. It's always the same thing. I think they're going to really add a lot of variety in what you need to do to catch Pokemon as they get more advanced in the types of Pokemon available. But it's hard to do a good code on this because you have very limited shots. But you're saying you need more shots. I don't think so. If you want to catch 100 Pokemons, because you only have five shots to lit up.
    11:43
    Pokemon number five, you need these two shots five times. Pokemon number eight, these two shots five times. But how about Pokemon number 18? You cannot mix it anymore. I mean, but what you could do, though, I mean, even five shots exponentially, you could create thousands of different combos and requirements with just five shots. What's up, Brad?
    12:08
    You know, it could be like you have to hit the right ramp three times in a row and no other switches in the game. I mean, you can still make it challenging with like timers and countdowns. I'm starting to see a lot of repeat Pokemon now, too. Ones I've already caught have come back up. I wonder if there's only 20 that are in the game because I've definitely not seen any later evolutions or anything. And I wonder if they're going to have it set up so you have to capture the lower evolution first before the next one will appear. That'd be kind of a fun way to implement that. Yeah, like Charizard and the Charmander. Yeah, yeah. Do you guys know if those Pokemon that we're catching now, that they will be registered when the Insider Connected comes up? So we're going to have to catch them again. Registrate it. Yeah. Registrate it. I don't know. Will they be there? Have you got anything from Stern? I don't know. And I agree. Or will it just reset? I'm seeing repeat Pokemon. I've caught Jigglypuff like 15 times. Oh, I guess it's not just me.
    13:04
    So I think they will be. I'm not sure. But I think Gomez went into a chat recently and said that he's still waiting for approval to turn on Insider Connected for this game. He's probably screaming right now like, you guys, we know it's coming. I just we have to wait for this meeting to get approval. Yeah. Yeah.
    13:26
    There's so much more coming for this game. I mean, they have access to all the so many more clips from the show. Like there's going to be a lot. It's it's barren. It is very barren. I mean, you can literally get to the game in 30 minutes.
    13:41
    I agree. I mean, the license of this game wasn't cheap. So I think there will come a lot of more code. But everybody's waiting. Come on, man. Come with the code, right? Yeah. Bonnie, did you go through it twice or something? No, I've got to Charizard, which is like I think it's as far as you can get. Although I haven't started changing locations. I don't know how to do that yet.
    14:04
    I don't think you can yet. I think right now there's only one environment out of the four available.
    14:09
    So it's the forest. Notice how like it's always the forest as the, you know, on the screen. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, we haven't even gotten to the other three environments.
    14:21
    There's so much else missing. You know, there's going to be like a Jigglypuff singing mode. They've got to have a lot of that campiness of the characters, like, come through more. And I think it's going to. But it is.
    14:32
    Okay. Guys, let's review the game, okay? Can you see the chat? We have got Josh Cox here, man. What's up, Josh Cox? How you doing, buddy? We have got Brad in there. Welcome, everybody. Welcome, welcome. So we're going to reveal this game. You two have got the Ellie. I got the Pro over here. So we're just going to take it from the top to the bottom. How do you think about the art, charts and layout, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So let's start with the art. You're reviewing the Ellie. I'm reviewing the Pro. Okay. So, Donnie, you unpacked two of these beasts. Two of these beasts. Let's talk about the art of the cabinet and the play field. What do you think? Dude, the Ellie looks great, man. I mean, look at that thing. Like the bold yellow that's in there. I like that they have that nice pastoral scene in the back. And then just like the Pokemon words there. And then they put Pikachu and Eevee like front and center. Like, come on, what else do you want, man? And, you know, this wasn't some artist's interpretation of Pokemon. This was like, these are the actual assets. Use them. So, of course, it looks great.
    15:29
    Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Rated from one to ten. The Ellie art. Yeah, I'll give it a nine. Nice. If I had Radcalson or if I had Foyer, I'd go higher. Let me hear your thoughts about the art of the Ellie. Yeah, no, I love the look of the artwork and I love that. And also like Zombie Yeti and his daughter are the ones who arranged all of this art. So kudos to Mr. Zombie Yeti. I think it's refreshing to it. This is ironic that it's not Zombie Yeti on the art itself, that it looks different and it looks just like Pokemon. And it's so adorable. It's so colorful. It's so inviting. I give it a 10 out of 10. And I think this is one of Stern's nicest LE art packages ever. And especially maybe it's a little bit of relativity, but it just looks so much nicer than the Pro and Premium. But the LE really does stand out, which is what an LE should do. My only knock on it, and it's not about the art, I wish it had rad cow. Yes. Some sort of more foil. Like, you know, I can see my. Foil. It just, it's almost, it just, you can see it's cheap. It's a cheap decal. And it just for this much money and this beautiful of an IP, you're only going to make 750 Pokemon once in your Stern career. It deserves something a little bit nicer. But other than that, I love it. 10 out of 10 in an hour. Oh, neither. Why do you think we don't get the foil on this game? I mean, they have the excuse that when they foiled it, it didn't quite look right. It didn't match or it wasn't what like the creators wanted, which is fine. Man, but you can still print the same graphics on a Radcal and it really would have felt more premium. Yeah.
    17:10
    First of all, the Batman SLE decal is not foil. It's this beautiful, embossed, thick, glossy decal. They know the technology exists. Just use it again. The upper trim levels of Elvira were like that too, like Blood Red Kiss and 40th Anniversary. And you just feel the shiny sides. Yeah, that would have preferred that for sure. Yeah. So give it 10 out of 10. Okay. So I unboxed the pro and I must say pictures are one thing, but I'm seated with your own eyes in front of you. I just love everything about the artwork. I made a three-minute turbo review and because of English not being my main language, I just said, I love the artwork. It's so beautiful. It doesn't look like Stern. It's so good. And I should say it's not the Stern we're used to, you know. So I got bashed for this, but I really like it. I really enjoy it. The Pro, I will get it like eight and a half because on this game, art-wise, Ellie is just amazing with so much yellow and purple. I love purple. Such a cool mix. Look at the background on Chris's image there and with the lights and everything. Oh, my God. So the Ellie, yeah, I agree. It's a tenner, but Pro, eight and a half. That's it for me. Go with the early up in one. The pro looks like a four, bro. It's like all red. Come on. But the play feel. I mean, when I take art, it's play feel for me and the back glass. And I think it's both. The other thing is if you have an LE, don't change the green start button because it goes perfect with the green lawn in that image that's right there. I see people changing it out for like the Pokeball. I got a Pokeball. Don't do it. You got it. Don't do it. No, it's great, man. Look at that Pokeball right there. Like the color, like there's no red at all on the front. If you add red, it's going to like distract from the beautiful yellow and purple. Trust me, don't do it. Do you have something on the plunger there? Do you have the Pokeball? The Master Ball, yeah. It comes in a separate box when you unbox your LE and you can install it in like five minutes. Okay, okay. Fair enough, fair enough. Cool. And both of your games, when you unbox it, no issues, nothing?
    19:26
    Knock on wood, I'm good. Oh, that's so cool. Oh, something is happening here. Chris, hello. I'm going to highlight some comments here.
    19:38
    Look at this one. It doesn't look like Yeti slop. Stop it. Oh, damn. Damn. There's worse looking stuff. We think we see Yeti on Fallout because he's not going to do Transformers. Oh, did he mean like Yukon Yeti or like Zombie Yeti? I thought he was talking about Chris Spurger's game. We're going to need clarification on him. Oh, he probably met Zombie Eddie Slop. Oh, no. Oh, shoot.
    20:08
    All right. The next thing I want to ask you about this game, Pokemon, is audio. When you press that start button, how does it feel for you guys?
    20:20
    Once again, the Pokemon are coming. I like just pushing the flipper buttons at a track mode, just hearing the Pikachu. Man, that's the best.
    20:28
    Be copy. It's just like, yes, thank you. Yellow Rat, I love it. So let's rate it, Donnie. Music and call out from 1 to 10, just to get an idea. Man, it's too early to call that. Man, this thing's going to improve so much. I mean, right now, I guess if I'm basing it on what's in there right now and just expecting more of it, yeah, I'd give it a 7.5 or 8. I mean, I wish they had Ash in there, of course, you know, and some more of the characters. I wish Team Rocket was talking. Or even just like clips from the show were played. Maybe we'll get that. But Ash is not coming, right? Because Chris is angry at me. He's never coming. And Gomez, yeah, Gomez has said it. He's not. You play as the trainer, and it's not going to be Ash. And it takes place in later seasons of Pokemon, so he's not in it. Oh, okay. All right. Okay. How do you feel about the audio package? It's great. It's super fun. It's got that sort of anime energy vibe going. I love when you get into different story modes with the characters. You get that nice switch over to a different sound. I think Bulbasaur is really fun and Squirtle is like, you just get that guitar riff going. It's very, very fun. And the call outs are really fun right now. My favorite part is when you discover a new Pokemon, you identify it. And it explains to you that Pokemon, right? What their qualities are. It's just real fun and campy. That part's awesome. Yeah, there's still just not a lot in it, though, right? But when the battles are happening, it's cool. It's got a lot of potential. But, yeah, I would give it right now it's probably around like an eight just because it's, you know, everything in it I like. There's just not a ton in it.
    22:19
    Fair. You guys feel like that? For me, audio is just so important in a pinball machine. When I press that start button and the music plays and all those peek-a-peek-a that Don can play one-to-one. Peek-a-peek! Yeah, I get in a great mood. I in Japan It just it so good for me already I know I know with all the new stuff they going to put in but for me I enjoyed this game when my son was playing it just listening to the audio part This is strictly like 11 out of 10 for me already Really Love it love it love it If they can add more of the announcer callouts during the battles, too, you know, like after you capture a Pokemon or something, you go into that territory battle or something. Like, I've never seen a Pokemon battle like this before or something. Like, more of that. Make it more intense. Make it like WWE callouts, you know, like.
    23:18
    I think that'd be awesome. Yeah, and they've got Giovanni doing a lot of the callouts, too. I think getting him, you know, more in there, give the intensity of, like, the Team Rocket kind of, you know, that's who you're battling throughout. So imagine when you can progress far enough in the game that like you go head to head with Giovanni in a battle. Like, yeah, OK, I could see kind of where where this game is going. When a code update finally comes out, it's going to probably be pretty well baked because I'm sure they've got a lot more content now ready to go. Just waiting for approval. So, yeah, it's going to be a cool drop when this happens.
    23:52
    So is this because of license approval? Because we know when Stern games come out, the code is like 80 percent. This one just feels like there's lesser in it. Don't you feel like it, guys? Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's not much. But the foundations there, kind of what I like playing it now is you kind of get, you can kind of learn the rule sets in the foundation when there's very limited code because you sort of pay attention to the fundamentals of what the rules will be. And you learn, you know, what do these training targets do, battle targets like these are the four characters. You shoot them twice. You activate, you know, you know, Travis did the great tutorial. We're like, all right, like that's what those X's mean, where you can choose which shot becomes, you know, two times scoring.
    24:44
    It's nice not having too much to think about right now. You can kind of put to memory what's in the game and the foundation of how this game will work. This will be a fun one to watch grow because this isn't a game that they're going to kind of get halfway on and then just lose interest in and then there's not going to be like ongoing code updates.
    25:03
    Do you guys like it when the code grows or do you want a 1.0 when it gets released? I like it grow. How do you guys feel? I like it when it's not forgotten. Okay, it was hard to try to grow with X-Men. That was brutal. It was hard to try to grow with Wick, but it got there. But a game that's going to be popular, sales juggernaut, they're going to be commended or compelled to continue to produce code for it. I think that's the one to get. So maybe you have to suss that out. Has Walking Dead been completed yet, the remaster? I know they had a lot of ideas for code, but it seems like that's kind of been forgotten. Nobody bought it. Right? Yeah. They're not going to finish that game. That's not the one to hold your breath on. The enemies are still for sale over here. I don't know in the U.S. The owner's club page is like four pages long. And it's just like Neil McRae and Iceman fighting with each other. It's good.
    25:56
    Convince me this is good, Daddy. Yeah. The next one. Dots on layout. Chris, let's start with you. Let me hear. Let's hear. I keep saying I'm a bad person to answer this because I came from Guns N' Roses. So again, I keep saying it was like going from an abusive relationship to dating someone who's just like really cool and down to party. So I love – I mean it's the fan layout. The shots are wide open, right, for most part. Like there's – but there's something kinetically so satisfying about the shots. Like I love ripping the left orbit and it goes up that back ramp and flies around to your right flipper. So satisfying. The Charmander Orbit, same thing. The ramps are so satisfying. And I will say the upper battle arena area, even though I know when you're just like looking at photos, it's like, oh, this is boring. This sucks. With the magnet and with the action happening there, it's a lot of fun. And even just shooting the center shot, you know, so far up the play field, it's not as easy as it seems. So while it's very simple in its layout, it's very satisfying to shoot. And I don't know how you can like pinball and the feeling of flow and speed and get on this machine and not enjoy it. So I love the layout. And for someone who's not great at pinball, it makes me seem much better. That's another reason. You're in God mode when you play this. I'm finally good at pinball, Brenda.
    27:36
    How do you feel about it, buddy? It's really Fall of the Empire's got that center shot too, right, up the ramp. And you can just loop that and I can play one-handed, like one arm in the air and just like hit that four or five times. But I think it's because Gomez dropped the angle of the flipper a bit. Like the shots aren't exactly where you think they'd be. Because to shoot straight up the middle, it's pretty high up on the flipper. It's like the first quarter of it is where it'll actually go up there. If you try mid, you're gonna just be in the battlefield the whole time. And I'm still trying to like I'm trying to find a reliable way to be able to hit the ramps, too, because I think that would exponentially improve my enjoyment with the game if I could just start comboing more frequently.
    28:12
    Yeah, I when you lean over to play like Lyman used to, you know, when you lean. Yeah, because the artwork really comes down and gives you the trajectory towards those ramps. And it helps like it's like putting in golf. Like if you aim just in front of your putter, that's where you aim. You don't aim at the hole. That's where I've had more success with these ramps. Do you do that when you play? Do you go down like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, nice. When I trap, I do that all the time. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. You can't do it on the fly, but when you trap, it really helps, especially when you need to collect the Pokemon and you got to hit that left ramp. But you can just backhand it. How do you guys feel about those flippers that Donnie mentioned, that they're a bit down? How do you feel about that?
    28:59
    It confuses me, man. I know you don't like him. Why don't you tell us how you feel first? What I have been playing for, I mean, I remember when Stern released Lord of the Rings Pinball. So I go back, I have played for many years.
    29:17
    This game with this layout, usually, I had this talk with my bro yesterday, and he said, if this game was Princess Pony, you wouldn't care. But because of its Pokemon, the colors, the sound, the audio, the combo shots like Chris said, the right orbit with the spinner, it's just so satisfying to shoot. Maybe if the theme was something else, I wouldn't feel like this. It's simple. You go into guard mode. You combo, combo, combo. You get through the whole game in 20 minutes. I think it's such a fun game to play. So for me, if I should put one word, and I want you two to do the same, one word about this game, it's uplifting for me. Wow. Really? The corniest adjective to describe a pinball machine ever uttered on live.
    30:18
    How's the flow? Well, let me tell you this. It's uplifting. It's inspirational. It's heartwarming is what it is. All right. I'll take it.
    30:31
    You guys bought two LEs each, so you must love it. I mean. Yeah. Well, one paid for the other. Right.
    30:39
    Chris, have you told people how much you sold the other LE for? Yeah. $23,000. Did you hear that, Donnie? I hear it in my dreams. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm not getting that anymore, though. So, I mean, I was on like one list and it was like, maybe I'll get one or something. And then everything just went chaos on launch day and then somehow I ended up with a spot. And so what do you do? What do you do in that situation? You go for it. You don't back down. You sack up. It's slowing down, though. It's slowing down. Yeah. The latest reports are $2,500 over, $3,000 over is kind of like what people are getting now. Yeah. And you got to think, too, because so many LEs haven't even been made yet. But it's going to keep going more down. But I think once they all find homes and the code is good, I think it's going to settle in a nice price. But now is the time to maybe grab one if you missed out. Yeah. Now is not the time to be, you know, like number $4.99 hoping to flip it and wait until you get it in your hands because, yeah. Yeah.
    31:37
    Too late. I never understood, Stan, why some scalpers wait too long. I guess they're playing the market and maybe they listen to Canada being like, it's going to be $30,000. Man! But they waited too long. Good times. They waited too long. Your best bet is just preying on that irrationality, you know, that uncertainty at first, you know. Yeah. And that's when the phone was really hitting. I think 80% of the reason was Canada. He was on this high trade, like $25,000 by Christmas, $30,000. Wasn't it $40,000 on eBay? That's it. That was fun. Look, I just saw someone pay $100,000 for a Vespa scooter on Barrett-Jackson, so $40,000 for Pokemon seems too cheap. Yeah, there you go. If there's one guy here, one guy in whole Pinball media that can market, it's Chris.
    32:32
    So yeah, well done. The FOMO pump and dump, it's been around since Pinball collecting has been around. It never sees – the guys who go in impatiently at high prices at the beginning know money is of no object. Nobody who's thinking fiscally like with responsibility buys like that. They just don't care, these guys. They're such big whales. Trust me. The guy who buys it for $23,000 or $27,000, he's not losing any sleep. Yeah, nobody spends that much money for something and then is not happy about it. Totally. Yeah. In his head, he has a $27,000 Charizard edition of Pokemon. But that's what it takes to sleep at night in his 10,000 square foot home. And that guy's got a ton of friends that are also in a similar situation, know nothing about pinball, and they're going to come by and he's going to show off his $30,000 machine that he got for $27,000, and then they're all going to have fun. And they should hopefully invite me over. There's only one. Look at my Charizard box. He's got a sticker on it.
    33:33
    That's what they do. They put the stickers on the boxes, too. Oh, I didn't get a sticker on my butt. Have you guys tried when you have people over, normal people, not geeks like us, and they find a pinball machine in your home and they ask the price and you say $13,000? Have you tried how they react to that? Usually they're just like, oh, wow, but I can tell they're silently judging me. Yeah.
    33:59
    I always think it's rude to ask what something costs to begin with. I don't go to my friend's house and ask them how much things cost. No, no, but people see the pinball machines, they're like, this is cool. I usually give people the range. I say, look, a machine is anywhere from $6,000 to $15,000 if you want to buy a new one, right? Because there is. There's a range. You don't need to spend $13,000. I mean, a newbie is not going to be in need of an LE. I mean, we all know the LEs are vanity purchases. Nothing about it is truly in there. At the money. But yeah, no, people look, people are, I don't know, in these towns, though, I mean, I don't know, if someone rolls up into your house with a $100,000 car, are they going to be shocked that, you know, you spend 15 grand on a toy? Yeah, you live in a rich area. I understand. I'm the strongest guy on the block. That's what I'm going to say. These guys have like $100,000 watches on. And I'm like, yeah, man, like, I'm not flexing with a pinball machine. Trust me. Wow. Okay. Okay. That's fair. What do you guys think about the animation of the new Big Spike 3 display? What do you think? How do you feel? Let me hear. That's good. Have you got the – like I just got the secret skill shot where somehow it plunges into the Psyduck little hidey hole and it plays like a little cartoon clip. It's super awesome. So I got to see that. People are discovering that now. So if I can see more of that when a ball stalls and I can watch a little cartoon up there, it's perfect. Of course, the video assets are going to be great. They're from the show. So cool. What I think, though, in addition to that, because it does look amazing, I think it's the best Spike 3 presentation to date because it takes up the whole screen and it looks amazing. And they don't overcrowded, right? If you look at where the scoring is, just a little score bubbles at the bottom, full screen animation, right? Like Star Wars is all broken up. Walking Dead, God help us. Walking Dead is like the DMD in the middle. Everyone's like, yeah, this is good. No, no, no. And, you know, so it is the nicest usage of even like you can see now, they really fill the entire real estate with just the image. It reminds me of like when Dialed In came out and it was just like so nice to just have that J.J.P. screen for once, just have a nice big image on it instead of like 18 different things. It's happening at once. And so I think they're crushing it. It looks so good.
    36:27
    Nice. Do you guys like that? You know, of course, it's 18 inches is much better, bigger. You can feel the difference. Should it be bigger? Should it be JJP style or is it good? No, I think it's perfect. Yeah, I think it's fine. I don't know that you would get anything else by making it take up the entire back box. Oh, okay. Fair. I can also see the difference, especially when we put it next to the Spike 2 systems. Whoa, you can really see and feel and listen to the difference. I think the audio package has been upgraded pretty well also. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome, Spike 3. We just need a price reduction still. Good luck. I also think that the Pokeballs really do make the speaker grill look better on this game as well because it's got the round Pokeballs on it. You know, sometimes when you look at the Star Wars speaker grill and Walking Dead, it just doesn't look as nice as the older rounded grills. So it's everything's working really nice here. I don't think you need to change much. I think. How about the rails? Lit up rails? Right. Look at that. Look at them go. Yeah. They dance with each other. And then the inside and the outside are like synced up. Beautiful. Oh, yeah. Really enjoy it. So, Don, you have nothing to mutt this game with. I know, right? I made some flipper toppers. I made some shooter rods for some friends. But, yeah, there's not much to do with it. I think he could replace some flat plastics in the back with some little scene or something. But, yeah, not much. Definitely don't take minifigures and hot glue them all over the damn game. Please don't do that. Yeah, I see guys like the flat plastic where the town scoop is that has the different like battle mystery, you know, I've seen people like thinking about making more like 3D printed, like thicker. I don't mind it, though. To me, the beauty in this game just aesthetically, when you look at the big Pokeball into Meowth into Pikachu, they're in this nice symmetrical line that your eye follows. The moment you add more elsewhere, you're breaking up that symmetry. And this is always my thing with don't put too much in. There's a beauty in some of the blank space and areas of a game. If you keep – because then your eye is fighting to go to different stuff. So I do think there's a lot of beautiful symmetry. And you see it in the artwork. There's a lot of like – look at that symmetrical line going across the middle. Like it all kind of flows nicely. Zombie Eddie knows what he's doing.
    39:07
    But to be honest, I'm going to be a bit mean now. That mod with the whirlwind water, it's too dominating. When you look at it, it's just your eyes go down. The mod, but not the standard world. The mod, it's all that blue water. It's too dominating. I mean, I wouldn't put that in the game. How about you, Donnie? Yeah, no, maybe. I mean, I don't know. You want to be able to see the in lane and everything. And it was weird. I went from playing Pokemon like five times in a row and I have Evil Dead right next to it. So I jumped over there and Evil Dead, when you jump in there and it's like all that room and doesn't have a fishbowl over the in lane, like you can see so much more of the game. It was such a weird palate cleanse to jump from like cute Pokemon over to like this undead playground of Evil Dead and then back and forth. So fun. They did a good job with the Squirtle Whirlpool adjustments over the Star Wars Whirlpool, which stays in there, right? It's so – what I love about the Whirlpool 2 is like it only activates when you're in Squirtle story mode. It's really cool because like just – and again, I know it doesn't seem like a lot, but just opening up a new area of the game to play as you're progressing through a mode, it's just great. I mean that's what makes Pinball really satisfying is it's not just immediately on. Right. I have a question. That left side, the side dog side, how do you shoot the ball in there? You don't. It just randomly will go in there. Oh, okay.
    40:38
    Which makes it super hard to do it from a plunge. I mean, it would just come kind of crazy bounce and it went in there. And then it plays this really great animation. It just sucks you probably won't see it very much.
    40:50
    Have you guys heard anything about the topper? Yes. I asked George Gomez this week. What did he say? Want me to read his response? No, I just – did you ask about when it comes out or did you ask about what's it going to be? Is it Pikachu? No, it's the fish. It's the – I don't know his name. Magikarp. Yeah. Oh, the fish you collect to get the – what's that snake? Gyarados. Yeah. Yeah, Gyarados. Okay. Yeah. The fish? Why? He didn't tell me it was the fish, but it is the fish. That's sad. No, it's going to look awesome. No, it's going to be awesome, man. Oh, it should be Gyarados or Bulbasaur or something. It's like Fishtails, man. It's like the Fishtails fish. Yeah, they're going to make it move. Jaws, what are you talking about? Oh, come on. Give me a cool Pokemon up there. What's the big fat one? That's white fat Pokemon. Snorlax? Snorlax up there jumping. That could be awesome. I'll make you a Snorlax topper. All right. So he said that cost-wise, it's not any more than any of the complicated ones, whatever that means. Between $1,500, it's $1,800. That's what he means. We're about to announce it, but again, not certain on dates. You'll want it when you see it. It's very cool. Nice. Will it unlock some new modes? Do something more code-wise? Of course.
    42:21
    You know it's going to come with a mode for that Pokemon. Oh, Magikarp mode, yeah. Magikarp challenge.
    42:28
    You need to hit 400, collect 400 Magikarps only with the topper to get Gyarados. That's it. That'd be fun. Jaws, I think you underestimate the beauty of the depth they can create even with just the five or six shots. Yeah.
    42:47
    No. Guys, it's just... Explain to me what three more shots would do. You can multiply the shots by three. Have much more options. Yeah, no, you're going to end up with Houdini and no one's going to want to play it.
    43:05
    No, no. Okay, Houdini, I understand. But I don't know if it had four shots in there. Yeah, name me, though, a game, a moment in pinball where shots six, seven, and eight really made that mode come to life for you. I can tell you this game reminds me of playing Medieval Madness or Attack from Mars, right?
    43:27
    It's the same layout, right? Mm-hmm. Fan layout. Yeah, yeah. The orbit, left ramp, right ramp, and a bachelor in the middle. After some time, it just gets stale because it's five.
    43:42
    You either shoot the left side or the right side, and it's just, and this one you can, what's it called? It's called when you make a mark in the middle and you can close it. Symmetrical. It's very symmetrical also. So it's just on layout. It's just not easy to engage in different cool modes. I mean, what else would you put in here? Like an upper flipper with a warp ramp up to a little upper mini playfield or something? That could be awesome. A right upper flipper that could do the Picard shot. That could be awesome. Why not? I mean, look at Evil Dead. Look at every time you go into a mode. It's very different. So, yeah, it's just harder for the coder of Pokemon when it has got five very simple shots. So I'm not saying it's impossible, but I mean, you could have had something like like the Pikachu could have been a lift ramp. So sometimes it can lift up. You shoot underneath it. There you go. Going to a subway or something. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, they could have made Meowth maybe have more functionality and move over more and block more pathways. But grab the ball with a magnet like on Godzilla. I mean, if you were going to spookify Pokemon, you could probably have a Meowth balloon open up and you could put a ball in the basket and then it could lift up for a physical ball lock that could drop out later. But would that sell one more of game than they otherwise would? No. So that's why. That is the one mod I waiting on is a Meowth basket Yeah To make it look more like a balloon Yeah Yeah I don know That just how I feel I mean but for a medium player it great Shots on layout. But I just think for the coder, more shots will, you know, do it a bit more engaging. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I love shooting the game. I think it's got the same amount of shots as Elvira's House of Horrors does.
    45:53
    I also think this game is going to really, again, like the code, it's so right there for like a there and back again mode. You know, after you collect all four characters, there's like a beautiful like music starts in and you remember, you know, moments with each of those Pokemon like in an adorable way. Jigglypuff. I still think there needs to be the Jigglypuff mode where the game starts to fall asleep slowly and you start to lose switches and pop bumpers.
    46:21
    You know, like, so that's that's those are going to be the moments because I would I would say like right now, if you were to say what's the moment in the game, that's just magical that you remember that you can't wait to get to again. I don't know if it has that quite yet. Yeah. But Don is saying it has five shots like Elvira and the Party Monsters, but those shots on Elvira are very different on the playfield. They're not symmetrical. It's not just an orbit. It's very different. On the right side, it has got this opening.
    46:57
    The crypt? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it just – it has – Pokemon doesn't have a crypt. Yeah, the stand-up targets on the left could have been drop targets and you could have shot behind them once you dropped them or something. Yeah. You probably could have got creative with subways and things. But, like, from Stern's point of view, that's more complexity to break and it probably wouldn't sell one more game than they otherwise will. So, you know, why? I don't know. You guys have got the magnet. For me, that's a huge plus. Oh, I love the magnet. It does the random stuff. It doesn't happen to the pro owners. It's great. And the magnet can even throw the ball up the center shot sometimes. It's got a lot of action. It's really strong. Yeah. And if you're missing one of the purple blinking stand-up shots, it can hit that for you. That could be cool. We just lost Chris Colouros. Oh, he had to go to the toilet. He just texted me. Hopefully he can't hear me.
    47:55
    That's fine. Okay. It happens. Dude, I'm happy the stream is working. How cool is this?
    48:02
    I mean, this is awesome. Hey, look, we have got chat going on also. Guys, this is just a tryout thing. This is my idea. Let's try this. Bam. This is fun. Chris Ellis here. Jason Long is here. I can just grab somebody's comment and be like, boom, drop it right there. Get his slop. It's cool. So, yeah. So I think people are digging Pokemon. I know it is fun to play. It's not the most complex game ever. And, you know, when I talk about Palate Cleanse, jumping next door to Evil Dead and playing that, it was like there's so much more room here. There's so much more fun stuff to do. So, like, yeah, I would have liked it if there was, you know, ten ridiculous shots and five awesome mechs. But I'm having fun with it. So there you go. Oh, he's back. I'm going to put him on stage. It's a keeper for you. Welcome back, sir. Now you get Don's logo.
    48:59
    Yeah, Don's logo. My computer died. Welcome back. Oh, is that a Ferrari P348? Yeah, 308 GTS Targa. 308, okay. Damn. He's sitting at $340,000 for a car that goes 0 to 60 in 8 seconds. Damn. Okay. Okay, so Pokemon, as of right now, both of you guys, it's a keeper. You love it.
    49:27
    I mean, yeah, for me, I mean, kids love it. Wife loves it. You know, for now, nothing's a keeper. I mean, show me $20,000 and we'll talk.
    49:38
    I want that. I got to get that Magikarp on there first, man. I can't wait. Yeah, I think by the end of the end of the month, we'll see it. Cool. Okay. That was the review. All of us, we enjoy Pokemon. I think the theme is awesome. I love everything Japan. Let me see.
    49:59
    Let's talk about like, but like, there's a lot of people that don't like this game, right? And I think it's been fascinating.
    50:05
    It's a fascinating, like, there's a lot of vitriol, I think, from a lot of more seasoned players who, and I get it. Like I think it and I've said this, I think this game makes a hypocrite of all of us a little bit who cover pinball frequently because of the things we look for in games and what we've indicted other companies for in terms of effort and innovation and, you know, Cengiz shots and mech. And then this game comes out seemingly devoid of what we normally indict companies for. And we're like, it's amazing. It's amazing. Like this is the best, you know, it's like so like I and that's. That's the thing, as I think this game just... No, because I feel personally it's a theme that I like, it's music that I like, it's Pika callouts that I like, and it's just bright colors, and it's uplifting. I love it. Todd's here. This is great. What's up, Todd? Who's saying bad things about this game? Jeremy Schmitz. I played the pro twice. I'm good, never playing it again. Okay, so if you find Pokemon grating, annoying, or crazy childish, you're not going to like this game, right? You don't want to hear Pikachu just constantly saying stuff. You're like, no, I don't want anything to do with this.
    51:29
    So those are probably the people that don't like it. I would love to Jeremy to go a bit more into details. Oh my God, do we have TNT Amusement? Yeah, yeah. Of course, man. But like, it does make sense. I mean, let's face it. There are 55 year old dudes who have never seen Pokemon or, you know, they don't care. Like, you know, I wouldn't jump on it if that was my perspective and be like, yeah, like, you know, especially coming off of like some of the most amazing games we've seen over the last few years. I get it. My thing is you've got to look at Stern as a portfolio of products. This product was, I think, designed the right way for the right kind of mass audience on the biggest entertainment IP in the world. So you made the most inviting pinball machine Stern's ever made. This is the easiest Stern machine to play ever. And I think we'd all agree, right? Monsters is easy also. But that was a smart decision by George. Even if this had the Foo Fighter layout or Iron Maiden or Godzilla, it wouldn't have been as approachable for most. I mean, I'm definitely grading on a Stern curve here because there are games that are more mech heavy, more creative shots that are in here. I think, you know, can you imagine Pokemon if I had the Dune layout? The giant diglet would come up from the back where the worm is.
    52:58
    She got a bum. Oh, my God. Guys, TNT amusements. TNT is in here. Todd Taki. Let me tell you guys something. Before all this – hello, Todd. Before all of these great videos we have got on YouTube, we had Todd Taki. I mean, Vigo, like 15 years back, he made great videos. And I really enjoyed those videos. It was much different than now. But as soon as TNT... It was quality. It was quality content back then. But as soon as TNT upgraded to a high definition, they deleted all the old videos. And they were so technical. They showed weak points on System 3s, on System 11s. We deleted all those videos. Yeah, why did you do that, Todd? Why did you do that, Todd? Answer for that. We want all those old videos back, buddy. Now, I mean, he said something like, now he only wants the full HD quality, but yeah. Well, welcome, Todd. Todd, what's the next game he went pushing off the roof? He couldn't get the Pinball Adventures. Is that guy still, Andrew McBain still making games? Wasn't that Elements or Elemental or something? Yeah, Elements is not the one he should make next. That was kind of a side project he was doing because he's got a couple of other businesses too. And so right now I don't think they're building anything. But like, I don't know, I celebrate that because the man had an idea and he put it together and got him out there and damn it, bless him. It was Punny Factory, which. Did you have one, Don? No, I streamed one, though. And I think I think I'm still the only person that's ever done that. No, Matt Pinball bought one and they took it. Mad Pinball is probably the only people in the world that made money on Bunny Factory besides the person making them because they would tour it around and people would come there just because it was such a rare freaking game. And so they would tour it around different arcades and things.
    54:54
    And then like my first time streaming something in public, they're like, yeah, here, just go do this. So they turned loose on it. What a strange game that is. He reached out to us a couple of times. He's a real sweetheart, man. I like him. Who? Oh, Matt or Ant? TNT said they never deleted any videos, Jengiz. What are you talking about? Fake news, Jengiz. Strikes again. Low resolution, very old videos. Todd said they never deleted anything. Okay. I'm sorry. I believe Todd. He says Pinball Adventures is silent for an entire year.
    55:27
    Yeah. Yeah. Ask Todd how Wonderland's Alice is selling. Is that the small home version? That the $1,000 one? Yeah.
    55:38
    I don't know, man. They're making Ninja Turtles now, right? Sure. Are they? Yeah. That's what they said they were doing next. Yeah, they showed pictures of it, I think. For like $1,200 or something. Yeah, I think they're doing some kind of foosball table, too. It's such a different category. Like, it's technically pinball, but, I mean, really. I remember people were like, the warped play field. And I'm like, no one's going to notice if you buy this thing.
    56:07
    Okay. Fair, fair. All right, guys, that was beautiful Pokemon talk. Let's talk about the different companies. What are they doing? Nothing. Let's start with JJP. Donnie, we have Chris in here. Chris knows everything about the upcoming game. That's true. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be a good year for them. I'm sure it's going to be great. I'm sure I'm going to want it. What I'm not sure of is if I want to spend $15,000 right now. And I don't know that I need to because, again, this is probably going to be a good year. It's going to be made in large numbers and always be available.
    56:41
    But I'm sure it's going to be fun. Harry Potter is holding the price for now. Yeah. People are now there's still people where that holds for much longer. Yeah. Is it I mean, is this going to be a victim of its success like Guns N' Roses was where it just sold so many that even though I mean, and Harry Potter is a much better game than Guns N' Roses is. But still, if there's so many out there, like how can it maintain price? I still don't think it'll Godfather, though. Zach just sold one for like $8,600, a $15,000 LE. I think Sonic, yeah, Sonic's going to knock Potter's hype down a lot, I think, because I think it's going to shoot just as well, but have a lot more in it and be a lot more like Rad. I mean, like, Potter, there's no denying its success in the market. Done great. It's a beautiful pin. I think that's another example, though, where like the CE is gorgeous, right? It's like head and shoulders, like so much different than the other two models. But I do worry about this unlimited CE nature to Don's point. I feel no FOMO to get one right away at 15 when they're just going to make them for years. So I do think it's going to be a test of that unlimited CE approach if it's really the right way to go. Because again, then you're not really preserving any secondhand value for people spending that much money on a single pin. And I kind of would want a little bit of exclusivity and long-term value baked in. That being said, isn't it fantastic that it holds the price? It's just Potter, though. They have no other example of that happening ever. So that's the thing. You literally lost $8,000 on a Toy Story 4, maybe $9,000 on one game. So Potter is an anomaly because Potter is an anomaly. It's a huge IP. Like Sonic is nearly as big as Potter. So we'll see. Don, you said $8,000 for Godfather. Was it a CE or an Elite? No, that was a CE. That was a Gold Lion, baby. Included topper. Yeah. Now, it's Godfather and you would have had to wait three years or something or whatever it's been.
    58:53
    You know, I don't know. I think from the perspective of the collector, of course, you want exclusivity. You want to have something that's hard to get and other people want. From J.J.P.'s side, if they can sell a few thousand extra CEs, then that's the right decision for them, right? Yeah. And talking to Brett, they made money on Godfather. I'm sure they did. Some of the other titles, they don't care. I mean, they see the millions. Sometimes it's 20, sometimes it's 50 on a single game in terms of total sales, not like profit. But that's how they look at it. And if they can at least break even and make some, they're on to the next.
    59:31
    Look at how important theme is. Yeah. I mean. Any more captive obvious statements, Jaws? What do you mean? You said that like nobody. There might be something to this whole theme idea. Yeah. Maybe it's important. Just look at how important it is. I mean, for these different companies, sometimes when they, you know, use a lot of millions choosing. Terrible themes. Yeah, I don't want to say weak themes. Yeah, just rethink. I mean, just it's so important. I mean, look at Pokemon. As we said, very simple layout, but the theme is just, theme is everything, theme and music.
    60:12
    That's how I feel. Oh, we have got Ozzy in here. What up, Ozzy? Well, and seeing the themes in that image I created, right, of all the themes coming out this year. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's beautiful. They're on. Everyone's on point right this year. Like it's going to be really. And my other thing is next year is going to suck.
    60:31
    I just feel like this is like amazing. Like, are we going to keep this up? But maybe. Right. Because I think everyone realizes now. Well, let's talk about a team that's not like on that list, like Yukon Yeti. What do you think? Good theme, bad theme. Would you wait two years at 12-5? No. It will come this summer. Yeah. But if you if you order today, you're waiting two years. Yeah.
    60:56
    Jaws, you don't follow Pinball. Sometimes I'm like, these are like the latest. You get angry at me. Yeah, because I'm like, don't you listen to anything? No, because he's in it every day. And then he like, these are like just the latest things that everyone is sort of discussing and you're somewhat confused by it. I don't listen to much. When you hit me up, Don hits me up. I get all the news there. But yeah, I should listen to more stuff. So Turner basically said that they will complete all 500 basically within two years.
    61:30
    Yeah, he just said he just did a loser kid episode. And I think what he what he's trying to say is that now is that that's the longest you'll wait. You know, maybe they'll accelerate once his new facilities up or something, but he didn't want to he didn't want to put out a date and then not be able to meet that. So it sounds like they'll all be made within two years. But, I mean, you know, who's this game for? It's for somebody like me. Like, I've wanted a Chris Turner game. I just didn't want anyone that I'd seen yet. So, like, this is the first one that I'm like, oh, I'm interested in. Plus, I've been obsessed with the idea of this sequel to Whitewater that's been floating around the rumor mill forever. So, like, these two things crossed and it was, you know, easy for me. But, you know, would you step over a Sonic arcade edition to go get one of these? Probably not. But you guys said if you buy it today, are the 500 games not sold out? They sold like $250 or something. So I don't know where he's at now, but they're not sold out. Because, only because, like you know now if you place an order, you're waiting like a year and a half. Like let's say $300 have sold, he's not going to get to $300 until sometime late 2027. Okay. I'm going to put 600 in my cart right now and see how many there are left. Don, what number are you? Do you know your number? Number one. I don't know. No, he didn't give me a number, but I put my deposit in during the reveal stream.
    62:58
    You can build your own game there, Don. Yeah, he's going to let me know when the parts come in, and I'm going to fly down there and bolt one together.
    63:05
    Is that true? You're going to make it? Well, I'm going to at least go down and help. Yeah. Okay, that's cool. How cool would that be? If I jumped on the line at Stern, I'd be like, you know what, guys, I'm good.
    63:17
    Let's solder two things and be like, I got a headache. Yeah, I just want to squeegee my own decal. You're like, wait, let me build somebody else's game. I want you guys to build mine.
    63:27
    Which one's Jengiz's pro? The same thing with your Beetlejuice. Yeah. You could just go on and build it. Have you built it already? I'm going to go finish it up when I get back. I got the back box and I just got to finish the play field. Don, we're going to get in trouble by Franchi for rating Pokemon art as high as we did. I just. Oh, yeah, of course. That's why I said I was I was grading on a stern scale.
    63:51
    He is. He's already unsubscribed for my show because I talk about Pokemon too much. He'll come back. He'll come back. Why? Why? Doesn't he like the theme or what is it? Well, I know like everyone we've been nothing but complimentary about Beetlejuice and everything. Yeah. So yeah, it's just like he gets mad if you praise Pokemon for some reason. There can be two things people like happening at the same time, Mr. Franchi. Like, it's okay. It's not a knock on what you did. Yeah. Look, I still think Beetlejuice artwork is better than Pokemon's, but they both can be 10 out of 10 in their own right. Right.
    64:27
    Of course. And Franchi, what he does, we love it. Nothing bad there. Yeah, but you know, that's not good enough. He'll come back. He'll come back, Chris. He misses you.
    64:38
    He'll come back. All right, we covered JJP. Sonic in June. That's when it's coming out. Can't wait. I can't wait to see it. I'm going to play it. I hope they do a media day again. I know they didn't have to do one for Harry Potter. It'll be out within two months or around two months. Nice. We're going to see it. Hope so. And while we were covering JJP, you covered Chris Turner also. Two years in the making. Yeah. All right. Let's jump over to American Pinball. We have heard they will come out with 16 games this year. How is it going? They didn't say that. No, you know how it is. They have a lot of projects going on, man. Yeah. I'm excited, especially of the, what do they call them? Re-imaginating or what's it called? Remastering. Yeah. Yeah. I'm waiting for the rumor from AP that excites me. I haven't heard it yet. Damn. I agree, though. I mean, what's right now? It's Circus Voltaire. It's Houdini. Are you excited for Circus Voltaire? No, Ringmaster's creepy. I think it'll sell. I think Brian Allen's artwork is like my main concern. And, you know, I don't know if you saw the I mean, I went off on the fishtail artwork the other day. I did hear that. Sure. He hates my guts. But no, like I just I don't know. It's like that game was known for its art. So like to redo the art on games that were famous for their art being amazing is just an interesting Interesting strategic decision.
    66:21
    They're making two versions. It didn't work on Funhouse, even though I guess maybe people thought Pedretti's quality was crap.
    66:31
    It's just, you know, $12,000. I get it. Like, go find a mint Circus Voltaire somewhere for anywhere south of 10 and you can't. It's just it comes down to the remastered code has never really elevated any of these old games. Right. Other than maybe Cactus Canyon's new code.
    66:53
    Right. I mean, like definitely not the whirlwind code, God, not the whirlwind, not the funhouse, not. There's something, I guess, about new people coding and old games.
    67:06
    Like building on top of someone else's code, right? But it just hasn't really elevated it to the level where, you know, I have to now get the new 2.0 version of a game. So I don't know. Also, with all the exciting stuff coming out, gang, like I don't need to look back to the mid-90s. The new stuff is so amazing. Right. Did they say something with, I mean, will they remake some of the licensed Bella Williams or is it only non-licensed one? No. Have you heard anything? Oh, you mean like Indiana Jones or Twilight Zone? Well, Twilight Zone is from CGC. I just think Rick- You've been saying that for 10 years now. No, like CGC is not my fault. Five years. My whole thing is this, and I said this to Melvin and Brian who runs the new AP, just start your new chapter. Like starting the new company by looking back to old games from someone else to me is not how you start a new chapter of American Pinball. It just feels like a way to maybe train the employees keep the line moving get some revenue in Exactly But I not yeah I also not excited by it Like excite me with like we making He Oh my God please Frank says no Super Chat Donnie
    68:20
    Yeah, let me know how to do that and I'll go ahead and do it. We're on a free version of this software. They're not going to let us take money off of their free software. Sorry, guys. Frank, this wasn't planned. And it was like Zencastr didn't work and Don just entered this StreamYard thing. This is just a test thing. But I'm enjoying we have tech going on down here. Isn't it cool?
    68:46
    Absolutely. All right. What's we got? Let's jump. The company you're at, Spooky Pinball, man. How's it going? What numbers? How's the build going? Quality? Tell us. Oh, those Beatles just going out the door every day. Yeah. Oh, the next game. Gosh, I have no idea. They haven't told me.
    69:06
    Well, guys, I want to share something. Two days ago, I'm at this work thing meeting and we're having dinner and Don calls me. He calls me, he calls me, he calls me and we're eating and we're like 15 people around the table. So I just said to saying, guys, this is my dear friend Don. I have to answer him. He's from America. It's very important. And they're like, oh, a guy from America. Okay. Everybody stops eating. So I answer and he makes a video call. I answer and all these days they're looking down my phone. Donnie's outside. He has no clothes on.
    69:48
    Like no clothes on. Donnie, do you have pants on? And he just, yeah, look, look at my pants down here. What am I doing? I'm just enjoying everything. And I asked him, so where is the spooky factory? And he just turned his phone just right there. I mean, he's living the dream. You can just walk over there. So walk over there, build your Beetlejuice. Or he's ridiculous. There's so many hyperbolic moments that went nowhere with Jengiz's description. It's beautiful. Like everyone in the restaurant heard an American's on the phone. What? They're going to bomb the restaurant or something? I'm going to call you more often. That's funny. Yeah.
    70:29
    I know the power we have. It's good. I'm excited. I'm excited for the rumors I've heard from those guys.
    70:37
    Everyone knows they're sold out for the next few years. Yeah. It's incredible. It's just going to be fun watching the feeding frenzy happen once a year for them. I'm excited. It's been fun at the shows, too, and just watching, like, you know, you set up and then the doors open and all of a sudden the public just comes hoarding in. And then it just descends on the spooky booth. And then that crowd maintains the entire length of the show. It's crazy. With like 15 machines there, you know, there's still lines. It's crazy. Are we planning the night launch already now? Oh, are you kidding, man? We got some cool ideas. We're going to be a thousand people over there next time. I need to buy some more inflatables, man. I don't know where I'm going to put everybody. But, yeah, I want 150 people in the house. Sell them direct.
    71:17
    You know what it is? And I've said this about it. Still direct. Decent amount. They can sell them all direct. We all know that. Is there 500?
    71:28
    No, not that many. I don't think so. But I will say, like, we're all excited. But again, Spooky continues to be the company that has, over the years, like, listened to all the feedback and just keeps getting better. And it has been a pleasure to watch the ascension from America's Most Haunted to Beetlejuice. I don't think you could, on a spectrum beginning to today, you couldn't see another pinball company make that kind of progress. Now, albeit you don't necessarily want to start with America's Most Haunted, but that's what it took, you know? And looking at Beetlejuice now, a game that is easily looks more expensive and nicer than anything Stern is putting out on par with JJP. It is pretty incredible.
    72:09
    Amazing. I love it. They also, we picked up the Beetlejuice. It's going to fly to Denmark Monday or Tuesday, I hope. So at the end of next week, I'm going to unbox the Beetlejuice over here. I'm so excited. Nice. There's some extra special stuff in there for you. Oh, thank you. I will maybe have mine before yours. Probably. All right. They're going to put my 999. They know when the last one's on the line. Mm-hmm. Throw everything at it. What are you going to do? You're going to have your Pokemon. You're going to have your Beetlejuice. You're going to have your Transformer. I know. I got to buy one of these houses. You're going to have your Sony. That's my pin cave. What are you going to do? Yeah, we'll figure it out. We'll get a rotation. Bigger seller? I might get more than one up here. I can probably put three against this wall where the TV is. But, again, I just got to, like – there's programs where I can lay it all out to see what it would look like and how I could arrange. Yeah, but Chris, I mean, putting the games against the wall is one thing, but you're going to have to add more windows too. I know, I know. Believe me, just this catty corner, it's not in front of the windows. It's catty corner. It looks like it here. I moved on from pins in front of windows. My new thing I make fun of is men holding translates and for $40 on league night. That's my new. John, when he writes, when he sent those pictures to us, I mean. It's just. I'm not saying anything. Chris is going to make a calendar, right, Chris? You're collecting these pictures. Men holding translates. Yeah. You're awesome.
    73:44
    So is it something – okay, I don't know about this. Is it just something you say for fun or is it true that people play for hours? Yeah, it's when it translates. Is it true? Yeah, it's true. It's often what the bars will give as prizes on those league nights as just an incentive. Well, it's what Stern sends them for, like, being part of Stern Army. Like, here's your stuff, here's your plaques to give away, and then here's a bunch of translates for prizes. So that's what they get. They get banners and translates.
    74:14
    Yeah. Was that Killian I just saw? Killian! He's back here. Oh, I love Killian. I watch him grow up, man. I love Killian. Me too.
    74:24
    Oh, that was nice. Look what Pat's Arcade is writing. Retro Django's disappearing in the West. Yeah, baby! Oh, jeez. I don't think he's... Chris, you have to understand, you're on a WAP show, man. You have to understand. No, I get it. I can't tell from the moment it started.
    74:49
    It's Garrison. Chester, are they on? Is it anybody's guess or should we know each week? 400, I think. No, they're not on 400. They're not even on 150. When did it release? It was last year. October. It was at Expo.
    75:06
    But they didn't start production right then. What's your guess? I think they were on like 150? No, Chris. No, it must be more than that.
    75:18
    Don, what number of Winchester? What's the last? Christelle is like an extra. 525 is the numbers. I don't know what my number is.
    75:27
    What? I think it must be more, man. Killian wants to play Spokum. 98 just landed. I saw that. Yeah, Ozzy got 98. So I think I'm 522. So it's going to be a while for me.
    75:44
    What number are they on? High 90? See? Yeah, 98. I think it's a mixture of them getting a bunch of orders for Dune when they announced kind of that last call thing. Plus, you know, just the difficulties of running a pinball company and, you know, everything coming in. Oh, wait. Chris L says, I think, 60. Chris L, is that Chris from our Patreon, Chris L? I believe so. I saw 98, but never saw 70 or 80s.
    76:12
    I saw 98, but never saw 70s or 80s. Oh, maybe they got shipped to Europe or something. Stop! Oh, it's a romper room over there. I don't know what's happening. Cass has got a fever. He can watch something after he cleans up and he's melting down about the cleanup. Ozzy's waiting for a dune ordered in December. That's months. Yeah. OK, well, that's when they got those Russia orders.
    76:41
    Well, that's the thing is like they're they don't really have two full lines. And so they've been like kind of, you know, five Winchesters a week while they still make Dune on the main line. It's like been kind of like that kind of ride. Really curious to see what they come out with next.
    76:58
    Yeah. The NeverEnding Story rumor. Right. And then you've got I think it's Big Trouble in Little China. And don't joke with that. No, because they keep saying it's going to be a theme everybody knows. I mean, does everybody know NeverEnding Story? Yes. I mean, there's there's very few themes. It's like a theatrical release that people don't know. But Big Trouble is like 45 million times better than Never Ending Story, man. Yeah, man. They're awesome. I think it also could be G.I. Joe or He-Man. G.I. Joe. Kazay, did you guys play with G.I. Joe dolls when you were kids? Are you kidding me? I still play with them. Oh, my.
    77:40
    Chris Elwin says Big Trouble or Dungeon. Isn't Brian Savage over at Barrels? Yeah, yeah. And he was big into He-Man. And he ran the G.I. Joe fan club for 30 years.
    77:54
    They also might be making a Transformers game. Wouldn't that be? Because what people don't know is that it's not exclusive. That's interesting. A lot of these licenses are not exclusive, that if another manufacturer wants to make one, they also could ostensibly obtain the license. Why does that not happen? Why don't we get Star Wars from other companies? Because I think you've got to really, you know, if you're second, you could be screwed. Why? I want Predator from all the companies. Let's use Transformers as an example. Like if Stern nails Transformers, which I keep hearing good things about, and has all these resources and throws everything at. And just think about it. If thousands of people buy Stern's Transformers, you come out with it.
    78:47
    It's going to be hard. But the nice thing about all the Bouchieks is Stern just came out with Star Wars, right? They just came out with it. Yeah. Okay. They sold. Yeah. Decent, I hope. It's a popular theme.
    79:01
    How about if Spooky also got it? Can you imagine how much? Hey, Bug, go get on Star Wars right now. I think it's going to be hot.
    79:14
    Why not? Why don't they do it? It irritates me. While the licenses might not be exclusive, the companies may want to stay more exclusive with the manufacturers they choose as well. So that's why you see a lot of Warner Brothers with Jersey Jack. Stern seemingly has a great deal with Disney and Marvel. Well, part of it is that they're used to working with whoever the marketing representative of that licensing is. And so you build a relationship with that person and then it makes it easier, although they change a lot, too. So but if you like you're comfortable going to the studio for things going back to that, well, it's easier to go back the second time, I think. Yeah, 100 percent.
    79:55
    And they're going to want like they're going to they're not going to want to burn the people they've been doing deals with. And handed to somebody else unless unless like there was like more money on the table with a predator on. It's funny. Well, the predator Arnold guy do the Jack Burton call outs. So what I heard with Big Trouble was like getting the talent to do new stuff would be cost prohibitive, but they could get all the assets from the film itself, which that is a kind of movie that probably has a ton of call outs. Yes. But Kaneda, I heard somebody say that call outs are the most important thing ever and you can't just pull them. Yeah.
    80:35
    Are they redoing them? Are they I keep I heard like. I don't know. I heard someone say that today. I can't confirm nothing.
    80:47
    All right. Yeah, like I don't I think they help. Yeah. But yeah, I do think that David's next game.
    80:58
    He know, I think they want to feel what they feel with Winchester on a more like mainstream level. I think Winchester, again, was an anomaly for them because it was like the right game at the right time with the right designer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it wasn't Carl and it was like, I mean, it is a it is a difficult game. I think there's a lot of people who haven't played it that have been cheerleading it that it's kind of funny because it is not an easy game. And wasn't Star Wars revealed right around then and it was kind of like lackluster, you know? And so it's like, oh, but then here's this. Oh, fine. I already had money ready, but I don't really want that. But, oh, let me go on this Carl game. So perfect storm. That was perfect timing of a drop. Sold in an instant, man. So what's John Borg working on now? You'll have to listen to my show this week. Ooh.
    81:52
    Nice. I know a board. You made a nose. Well, it's going to be an interesting one. Let's see. Okay. That's nice. All right. Did we – we're missing Pinball Brothers? I wouldn't say we're missing them. Yeah. We're missing – They're not even brothers. That's the part that always kills me. There's not even two of them anymore either. It's just a one dude. Pinball orphan. Guys, the Dresden Gaming is about to release a game soon.
    82:22
    So, isn't that a... It's a... Isn't it Theater of Magic? Oh, who cares? Yeah, these remakes are just... Yeah. I mean, it's fine, make them, but I'm not going to get excited about them.
    82:36
    How is Funhouse doing in the US? Do you guys know? They sold 10. They bombed. Yeah. Ozzy here said it. He's like, those games had their time. That time is over. I get it if you want to put one in your collection, but again, the discernible, discerning with discernible, discerning collector is going to want the original for the most part if you're a real collector. It feels like the most expensive, non-licensed Bella Williams games has already been remade, right? Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars. I mean, are you going to sell 1,500 fishtails right now with updated code? No, I don't think so. No, not with that. Give us a surprise.
    83:20
    7,000 people will buy, not fishtails, but bit of magic for 7,000. That would sell. It's not going to be 7,000. It's going to be like probably 11 or 12. Yeah, get out of here with that. That won't sell. I mean, 12Gs, no way. The real magic trick will be finding customers for that.
    83:38
    Yeah. The thing is today, if you want more than 10K, you have to put more in a game than Spooky does. That's it. Unless you're Pokemon.
    83:51
    Yeah, we start the show by saying theme is everything, but yeah, with the prices and all, so yeah. Anthony in chat, what's up, buddy?
    84:00
    Yeah, there's a rule. Yeah. Let's ask one final question. I think we covered off all the major stuff. Do we think we will see Back to the Future this year? Of course not. I'm so sad about that. Here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that we're actually going to see it sooner than people think because they don't have really anything on the line now that they're losing Raza manufacturing. There's going to be a Lebowski anniversary edition, I think. No, it's the Jesus version. Sorry, not anniversary. There's going to be that. Yeah, that's what I'm hearing with like purple armor. Of all the characters to pick. Right. And so like, we'll see what that does. But then I think we're going to see Back to the Future sometime in like summer before, you know, the end of the year. I think, who knows? Last I heard the game still wasn't done yet, like not ready for production. Do you think they finished it?
    85:10
    Yeah, I think it's been, they've been developing it for at least a couple years now. I, I don't know, from what I heard from someone who saw it, that it's, yeah. Look at the chat, it's like, no, no, no, no, no. It just doesn't, I think. Wait, I heard the same. What were we about to say there? Me? One that has played the game. Yeah, I think I heard the same. Well, no, I just heard that it just didn't like it just felt like it was missing something like it, you know, like it was it was it was fine. It was a whitewood, you know, the art wasn't on it yet. I know Franchi's doing the artwork, but just that it was missing that like that that like wow thing in it. Like, you know, where Lebowski had the bowling alley and the rug, I think. The other thing is this, is that there's a lot of Lebowski that was designed by Yap and other people. And I think, you know, Barry is designing this game in a little bit of a vacuum now, and they don't have the resources people think. And, you know, that's the thing that's going to hurt this game more than anything. Was it a bad thing that Melvin stopped at Dutch? Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, you know, I love the dude. I think I don't know, though, either. Right. Because it's like I can't say that, you know, making the foam core Alice into a working game is a is a resume item for, you know, like, you know, missed potential on Back to the Future. I just think it's I think in general Dutch is hard because they've only made one game in like 15 years and you're not iterating. You're not like, look at Spooky. Imagine if Spooky just made one game 15 years ago. Yeah. And then they got back to the future as a license. Like, you know, you haven't been, you know, learning and trial and error and advancing and innovating and, you know, and then the pressure is on you to like nail it without a lot of experience. And so, you know, most people at Dutch, what experience do they have? They've just been screwing together a game that's 15 years old for the last 15 years. I think it's going to be – it might come out feeling dated before it's even out. Oh, no. I don't know. People are very excited for this theme. No, because I'm just saying I think Fallout and Transformers and Beetlejuice and – the pinball scene is just going, baby. And I'm not sure they have – I'm afraid Back to the Future is going to be revealed and it's going to feel like 10 years old. Yeah. Oh, no. Right. And like, like, remember, like originally, Don, like it leaked like with the cabinet was just the logo and that's it. And it was like very much like Lebowski. And it's like that was then. But look at now. Like, that's not good enough. Now, it's good that Franchi's working on it, but it's it's going to be tough, you know, to to nail it. There's the expectations are so high for it. It might be like the Chinese democracy of pinball. Yeah, I wish multimorphic would have got the Back to the Future license. I wish Spooky.
    88:15
    Seriously, I wish Spooky. Just sit down with Spooky guys. We have been waiting for this game for years now. Get contact. Get back to the future. So now that none of these deals went through, I know all the deals that were on the table. And Stern wanted it and was going to have Elwin design it. And Barry was going to just make a good cut per game sold. Like imagine just hypothetically 500 bucks a game. You're just the executive producer of it and they sell 8000 games. Bro, just yeah, that kind of beef and get your four million bucks. Stop pretending you can you know, you can you can meet the demand. And then Jersey Jack also wanted it. But Barry wanted too much money up front and also just wants like the pride of bringing it to market. And I think he's going to realize when the orders come in and he can't fulfill them what a headache it's going to be because of that. Well, just imagine when you sell 100 games and then 50 of those people are still waiting for the toppers.
    89:15
    Yeah, Alice. I don't even know what's going on there. I mean, it's just like how... I can tell what's going on here in Europe. People are trying to sell their Alice's in secondary market and it's not going very well. So it's like 10, 5, 10, and they're not. No, it's just. That's in Europe. There's no game there. I mean, like I, I, I, Melvin accomplished what he needed to do. I mean, he made that game in less than a year. He brought a foam core to life. But again, relative to what's in the market today, it's not a satisfying ownership experience. And the art wears off real quick. And also, like, none of that art is, like, in the code, is in the game. This isn't like a storyline of this slutty Alice making her way through this adult wonderland. It's so disconnected, all of it. Discordant. Yeah, it's not.
    90:07
    And that upper point field. Sad, man. All right, guys. It is. I'm not sad about it. It's easy to just like, I don't know. I'm sad about it because I want all the companies, all the pinball machines to just rock and be awesome. Uplift you. I want to be uplifted. So trust me, Pokemon does that for me. Every time I press the start button. All right. I'm going to go try to get the stars again. Jaws' skirt gets uplifted. All right, guys. That was fun. Thanks so much. Yeah. All right. And thank you, guys. And thanks for the chat also. This was cool. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Subscribe. StreamYard. All right. Later. Bye.