Journalist Tool

Kineticist

  • HDashboard
  • IItems
  • ↓Ingest
  • SSources
  • KBeats
  • BBriefs
  • RIntel
  • QSearch
  • NName Review
  • +Health

v0.1.0

← Back to items

The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 33

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 11m·analyzed·Mar 14, 2026
Buzzsprout-18846153
Export .md

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.035

TL;DR

GB Pinball hosts discuss community burnout, Pinball at the Beach, and early impressions of Beetlejuice and D&D.

Summary

Scott Rundell and Neil McRae discuss burnout from CPR playfield restoration work and community event organization, share experiences from Pinball at the Beach show in Florida (including a hotel cockroach incident), review early code on Spooky's Beetlejuice and Stern's Dungeons & Dragons, and discuss Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future licensing status and personnel changes.

Key Claims

  • Scott is quitting CPR playfield restoration work due to quality issues and loss of enjoyment

    high confidence · Scott Rundell directly states he's done with CPR restoration, citing poor pilot hole accuracy and that 'this will be my last one'

  • Spooky had approximately 10 Beetlejuice machines at Pinball at the Beach, plus every Spooky game ever made

    high confidence · Neil McRae recounts attending Pinball at the Beach and observing Spooky's exhibition display

  • Stern displayed nearly 200 machines at Pinball at the Beach, representing most games made since Stern Pinball's founding

    medium confidence · Neil estimates Stern had 'maybe 200' machines on display; uncertain on exact number

  • The Walking Dead remastered has minimal new code but plays significantly better than original

    high confidence · Neil McRae received the remastered game at his house and tested it; reports improved ramp shot mechanics

  • Dungeons & Dragons has not yet reached version 1.0 code and has had serious release bugs

    high confidence · Neil directly states 'they still haven't got to version one yet' and references 'real howlers' in bugs

  • Mel (Dutch Pinball employee) has left the company to pursue other opportunities

    medium confidence · Neil McRae states 'He's out' regarding Mel leaving Dutch Pinball; describes him as customer-focused

  • Dutch Pinball is still working on Back to the Future but lacks complete licensing (missing 2 of 4-5 required license components)

    medium confidence · Neil discusses licensing requirements; uncertain whether soundtrack/Huey Lewis and the News rights are included in their license

  • Beetlejuice features a moving ball lock mechanism (sofa) during day-old mode, requiring care during machine setup

    high confidence · Neil describes observing the sofa mechanism during gameplay; warns about issues with jacking the machine up too high

Notable Quotes

  • “I fucking hate them. I don't care what people say... I cannot work with this... This is why I give my work to other people.”

    Scott Rundell @ early in episode — Scott announces he's quitting CPR playfield restoration; signals potential loss of restoration capacity in community

  • “It's a thankless task... I just can't be bothered anymore. It kills me. I haven't played pinball if I'm honest with you all this year.”

    Scott Rundell @ early-middle segment — Reveals severe burnout affecting Scott's core passion; illustrates work-life balance crisis

  • “Here I am working on chump change for hundreds of hours on restoring the game and I have people whinging at me about my costs. I mean, this guy's showed up for five minutes and got 300 quid.”

    Scott Rundell @ early segment — Highlights undervaluing of specialist restoration work vs service industry pricing; economic frustration driving exit

  • “The problem you get is where you try to extract too much of that goodwill without putting in enough of your own goodwill.”

    Neil McRae @ middle segment — Neil articulates sustainable community event management philosophy; warnings about volunteer burnout dynamics

  • “Boy, does it play nice. Fucking hell, it plays really nice... Very impressed with how it plays.”

    Neil McRae @ mid-later segment — Positive early impression of Walking Dead remaster despite limited code updates; signals mechanical improvements matter

  • “This will be an unpopular opinion. The Topper is the most hideous thing I think I've ever seen in my entire life... It is absolutely freaking awful looking.”

    Neil McRae @ later segment — Strongly negative aesthetic critique of Beetlejuice topper; contradicts theme intent but reveals design preference differences

  • “It feels like you're playing Attack for Mars and they just moved the spaceship to the side... It's a modern day Attack for Mars from a shots point of view.”

    Neil McRae @ later segment — Comparison suggests Spooky's Beetlejuice borrows from proven AFM playfield philosophy; positions it as accessibility-focused design

Entities

Scott RundellpersonNeil McRaepersonMark SquirespersonPhil WaldronpersonEd Van Der VeenpersonGary SternpersonJack GuarnieripersonBen HeckpersonMelperson

Signals

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Mel has left Dutch Pinball; described as customer-focused employee; potential loss of customer service orientation at manufacturer

    medium · Neil states 'He's out' and notes Mel was 'the only person in Dutch pinball...that definitely felt more customer focused than the rest of them'

  • ?

    product_concern: CPR playfield reproductions have significant accuracy issues (incorrect pilot holes, misaligned targets); restoration work becoming untenable

    high · Scott describes CPR playfields as fundamentally flawed, requiring extensive correction work with tracing paper and manual hole drilling; states 'I cannot work with this'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Scott Rundell experiencing severe negative sentiment shift toward restoration work; announcing exit from CPR playfield restoration after loss of joy and excessive time investment

    high · Scott states multiple times: 'I cannot be bothered anymore,' 'this will be my last one,' 'I'm losing the joy from it'

  • ?

    community_signal: Community event organizers (Scott, Neil, broader volunteer network) experiencing unsustainable burnout from event coordination and restoration work

    high · Neil and Scott both discuss work-life balance crisis, inability to play pinball, and burnout from community labor; Neil states 'I'm already burnt out'

  • ?

    code_update: Walking Dead Remaster ships with minimal new code changes; animation DMD/CGI toggle feature still pending licensor approval

    high · Neil states 'There's not a lot of new stuff in it code wise yet' but mechanics improved; animation toggle approval status pending with licensor

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.214

0:00
Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast and here are your hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae. Oh my god we're back. We're alive. Happy New Year Scott. He's laughing about that I bet before. Yeah, Happy New Year Neil. Yeah, so apologies. Both Scott and I have had a lot going on and just trying to, and actually, to be fair, the last time we were supposed to record this a week ago and I completely forgot about it. Here we are. Apologies. We're supposed to be best friends, you know. The good news is, lots of people are asking me, Neil, when do you do the next podcast? So Pinball at the Beach, which I'll talk about later, lots of people say, when's the next podcast coming out? Neil, we thought you would have done one. I was like, yeah, I'm just trying to stay awake right now. Scott, tell me what you've been doing pinball wise for the last month. Racking my head on why I'm doing another CPR playfield if I'm honest with you. I fucking hate them. I don't care what people say. Yeah, there's so much creativity about them. And they're no longer making playfields, thank God. Well, there's a controversial start to the podcast and it wasn't me. I'm swinging, you know, but yeah, I cannot, I sat there, right, on this Elvira and the Pied Monsters going, why are the people so fucking far out? But if I followed them, right, there's a part where you have a bank of targets. If I followed them, the target would be in the wood. It was so far out that it wouldn't even be in the hole, like let alone the wood. It was like, it's so dumb. It was just, I cannot work with this. And I ended up just like getting tracing paper out and diligently then taking from the old playfield the markings and turning the underside into Swiss cheese to correct all the incorrect pilot holes. This is why I give my work to other people. I just wouldn't have the patience for bullshit like that. I'd end up setting fire to them. This is you man and much to everyone's probably fucking cheering joy I can't be bothered to do this anymore I think this will be my last one I just can't be bothered it's just like I'm losing the joy from it it's it kills me I haven't played pinball if I'm honest with you all this year I haven't played any because all I'm doing is if I'm if I'm not doing my work I'm doing the the playfield restoration or let's call it pinball machine restoration and if I'm not doing that I'm looking after the little one so it's just like yeah I'll have to do it I'm going to have to sack it in if I'm honest with you. I say that I'll probably end up getting someone saying, oh yeah, you pay you this and you'll do it. And then I'll be like, shut up, I'll take your money then. But I just, at the moment, I'm just drawn out on it. I just can't be bothered anymore. It's just, I feel like, I'll give you why. I'm having a whinge now. You've set me off. But I got a fucking washing machine that was playing up. And I had the engineer over and they paid me 300 quid to just come in and fix it. And I'm like, here I am working on chump change for hundreds of hours on restoring the game and I have people whinging at me about my costs. I mean, this guy's showed up for five minutes and got 300 quid. 300 quid means you could buy a fucking new washing machine for 300 quid. Well, to be fair, I had a Miele. I know, for the worst, those things cost a fucking lot. Actually, I've got a Miele. You know. Oh, you know, as it is. But, yeah, no, long story short, my wife used to work at Mila and she got us a good discount when we got it. I just didn't want to see it go because to replace it for like would have been a grand so I was like, oh, no, I've got AEG, which is in the same space. Yeah, there you go. Literally, Pawper has the AEG. It's great because when I'm flying on a plane, it pings up on my phone to say that The Washing is done and then I forward it as a text message to my wife as a way of amusing myself. I wouldn't do that. I'd never be brave enough to do that. I've done it twice and that was, that was, the, the, the, all my clothes chucked, chucked at me afterwards was enough. Anyway, I wish I deserved entirely. I mean, I hear what you're saying though, by the way, pinball being a fun thing versus a labour of love. Yeah, where is where is that labour of love on the line before you think fuck it I'm out?

The Beetlejuice topper requires removal to fold the backbox, similar to Evil Dead

medium confidence · Neil and Scott discuss topper removal mechanics; Scott confirmed Evil Dead cannot fold with topper attached

  • Neil and Phil (likely Phil Waldron) have reconciled differences and will collaborate on Stall Ball tournament

    high confidence · Neil describes reaching out to Phil, notes they had a good time together, mentions 'The Shadow is back for stall ball'

  • “I had almost an hour on ball one... I kind of gave up because the people behind me were waiting for so long.”

    Neil McRae @ later segment — Beatlejuice's easy-to-play nature creates long ball times; accessibility vs commercial venue balance question

  • “The Shadow is back for stall ball. To be fair, it is a good game for stall ball. It's the best game.”

    Neil McRae @ mid segment — Neil confirms Shadow of the Clown will be featured at Stall Ball; references reconciliation with event organizing partner

  • “I'm not convinced that includes Huey Lewis and the News... There's five things I think they need.”

    Neil McRae @ end segment — Speculates on gaps in Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future licensing; raises questions about music rights clearance

    • Luke Wells
    person
    Great British Pinball Podcastcontent
    Pinball at the Beachevent
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Dutch Pinballcompany
    Beetlejuicegame
    The Walking Dead Remasteredgame
    Dungeons & Dragonsgame
    Back to the Futuregame
    Attack from Marsgame
    Evil Deadgame
    Shadow of the Clowngame
    Stall Ballevent
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Hangar Pinballvenue
  • ?

    product_launch: Dungeons & Dragons remains in pre-1.0 code state with known critical bugs affecting gameplay and release engineering; spinnable seat feature significantly impacts rules variation

    high · Neil states 'they still haven't got to version one yet' and references 'real howlers' bugs; notes game changes significantly when seat is re-spun

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Beetlejuice designed for high accessibility with extremely long ball times (1 hour on ball 1 observed); playfield layout mirrors Attack from Mars proven design formula

    high · Neil played 'almost an hour on ball one'; describes layout as 'modern day Attack from Mars'; Ben Heck confirmed 'the game was super easy to play'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future license appears incomplete; missing 2-3 of 4-5 required components (movie rights secured, but music/Huey Lewis and the News rights status uncertain)

    medium · Neil discusses Back to the Future licensing: 'They have the license, but there's four parts to the license... I think they've got two of them... I don't think they've got Huey Lewis in the news'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Beetlejuice incorporates moving ball lock mechanism (sofa) that shifts position during gameplay modes; creates interaction complexity and setup constraints

    high · Neil describes sofa mechanism moving around, notes 'you probably can't jack this game up too high because I think that will stop working'

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball at the Beach hotel significantly underperforms advertised quality (marketing misrepresentation); infrastructure issues include pest management failures, aging furnishings, billing errors

    high · Neil describes hotel as appearing like 'Savoy' in marketing but being 'like Motel 6' in reality; cockroach infestation across multiple rooms; hotel offered insufficient compensation

  • ?

    community_signal: Neil McRae and Phil Waldron have reconciled previous tensions and are collaborating on Stall Ball tournament organization

    high · Neil states Phil 'reached out' and 'Phil and I had a great time'; describes collaborative tournament planning; 'The Shadow is back for stall ball'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Loss of Scott Rundell as active CPR playfield restoration resource due to burnout; signals potential supply chain impact for collectors seeking restoration services

    high · Scott announces final CPR playfield restoration and exit from restoration work; represents loss of specialist capacity in UK market

    • 4:39
    No, it's a thankless task I bet. So I got bits of pinball gear lying in my shed that have been there since the last UK Open. I just haven't had time to deal with. Mate, I had the same thing. I had people messaging me going how's your homebrew going? I was like if I could just get rid of it now I would have already but I can't be bothered with it. I've got no time for it and it's like I'm like you, the work-life balance is getting really difficult at the moment. I think it is for a lot of people. The thing is, I go to tournaments, I'm actually, the reason you can't see my normal background is I'm just outside San Diego and I'm going to INDISC, right? I'm going to play awful at INDISC because, and the last three tournaments, in fact more than that, the last four or five, I've played awful because I haven't played any pinball except when I turn up to the event. So you're going in cold. Yeah. Yeah, I'm in practice. I'm thinking to myself, actually, maybe I should just become one of the people that just gets to play day and night, turns up and plays well at a game and goes home. You know what I mean? And I genuinely feel that way right now. Now, in the fullness of time, once I've got over this, I hate making decisions based on what just happened. I like to think about it. Yeah, you've got to reflect on it. Yeah, yeah. And we'll see how these next few events go. But I'll give another example, right?
    6:03
    There's a thing called Swavesy, the Swavesy Pinball Show, right? That Mark Squires, who's a superstar, I love Mark, right? He's organized it for the last hundred years, right? And it's great fun. It's a social event with a bit of pinball, right? And we've loved it. Now, last year, he told everybody being this way, you were ready to blow your nose to success! improving Clearly my mother said I sit back, have a few beers, play a little pinball. It's not like a tournament where I'm running around like a blue arse idiot trying to make everything work. Yeah. You know, the community just does it and it's phenomenal. And when he said he wasn't going to run it, a few of us had a chat and we decided actually, okay, if Mark doesn't want to run it, we'll run it, which is what I kind of said to him last year. So I phone up the pub and say, hey, you know, you've been doing this event. And now, you know, Mark's not one to do anymore, but we're keen to keep running the pubs. Like, we'd love you to come, you know, because because pubs are struggling right now. You know, the finals are. I wanted to announce it so people get it in their diaries. But, you know, the conversation I had with them last year is as well, you know, someone's going to do something. And we have. And also, and actually, you know, Mark himself, he's a legend.
    7:51
    And we want to keep something that in the community we find valuable going. So anyway, we're going to run it.
    8:02
    So I've had feedback with the usual thing in pinball, a few people who do nothing moaning. Hello, those people. Look in the mirror, you know who you are. And a few people that are like, well done Neil, excellent idea, I'm really happy you're doing this. I don't know how you bother with it, if I'm honest with you, but maybe that's just because I'm already burnt out. Actually, I kind of, this was a conversation because we were like fed up with the shit rain weather that we've had in the UK for the last few months. It's horrible. I know, it's been horrific. I've been trying to do this cabinet like sanding job for the last three weeks, but it's just like rain, rain, rain. It's horrible. Yeah, and basically, again, it was just another thing. I was like, really, man? I can't, you know, we're trying to do stuff because... Well, we have started out this whole podcast as negative, but I think that the bottom line really should be if you're, you're talking about a couple of things, right? So let's summarize. The Man
    9:33
    I don't know if I'm doing what I expect to be exactly exactly achieve that you need to either go right I ever can dense what I'm doing by minimizing your scope of what you're going to take on or you spread it out evenly to other individuals that are willing to take it on and if no one's there to take on then you have to just drop it I'm sorry to say mate but like that is that to me the club's inspired a few other clubs so there's a new one opened up and called the pinball machine in Birmingham shout out to those There's one in Blackpool that Luke Wells has started. Shout out to him, great job. And, you know, I like to think that what we've done at PBR has inspired those folks. If you rely upon, you know, pinball runs, pinball events run because of the goodwill of the community. But you can, the problem you get is where you try to extract too much of that goodwill without putting in enough of your own goodwill. But what you have to be mindful of is ensuring that everyone's putting in enough of their goodwill that makes them be valid about being involved in the first place, if that makes sense. Because what you can't have is someone effectively generating more work for everybody else by the way that they behave.
    11:01
    If that makes sense, right? Yeah, yeah. So, so look, you're right. And, and, and by the way, so look, I've got, um, British Masters, I've got Swavesey, and I've got, um,
    11:13
    UK Open and EPC, which are all announced now, by the way, if you look up... What's that? Ball ball. What? Stall ball. Oh yeah, sorry. Stall ball is easy. But it is refreshing to see you're going to be doing it again. I mean, no... I have had so many messages about that. It's like, oh, fucking hell, McCree, I'm coming again because I'm running stall ball. So, yeah, we're going to have a bit of fun with that. And fair play to Phil, you know... Does that mean that you two are now best friends again? No one ever claims to be my friend, Scott. Not even you. Is that right? Not even you. No, I mean, seriously, look, Phil reached out to me. I was kind of surprised by it, but Phil and I had a great time because where my games were, he was out at the front, I was out there. We were chatting a lot and I certainly felt, you know, he's had a few things going on in his life, as we all do. Yeah, yeah. And I think there was a coming, and actually fair play to Tony as well, but I think there was a kind of a plug in of thinking that, you know, where, you know, I think both of us would say, you know, we didn't, we didn't exactly perform at our best through that dark time. But look, I'm up for stall ball. I'm bringing a ton of games.
    12:41
    And the shadow is back. That's all you need to know. The shadow is back for stall ball. To be fair, it is a good game for stall ball. It's the best game. It really is the best game. I wish we could do the barrel ball on the shadow, but anyway, I need to get... There'll be quite a lot of coding, but someone could probably do it. Someone could probably do it. But so, yeah, I mean, look, and so, I mean, this is the thing, right? Pinball community works because the community, people in the community put stuff in. There are some amazing people in this community. Phil's one of them that puts tons of effort in. You know, there's a bunch of others that run events and do stuff and help people out. And it's a great gang. And, you know, just I think I think my message is is basically, you know, self-awareness. What what what is it you're doing that's contributing positively or negatively? And you know, what what what could you do different? I think where I want to go and moving from another from that event to another event. So I got new games.
    13:53
    The Walking Dead remastered arrived at my house. Yeah. It's glorious. Sadly. And actually, I was warned this might be the case. There's not a lot of new stuff in it code wise yet. But boy, does it play nice. Fucking hell, it plays really nice. Very impressed with how it plays. As much as The Walking Dead can play anyway. No, no, no. Yeah, maybe if you're not good at pinball, Scott, but I am. Actually, I'm one of those people. I'm no longer good at... I was never brilliant at pinball, but... I still hate those pops, man. Like, that was just like... Yeah, we've... Very central. They've fixed that a little bit. One thing they have fixed is the ramp, though. That shot is so... it's like butter now. Oh, really? Yeah, and... yeah, so I got that... Have you done anything with the animations yet? Because I remember we... We've done... yeah. Have they done a part where you can now switch between DMDR and CGI art or they're still... Yeah, so I was told that the licensor hasn't yet signed off on that but they think they will, it's just a matter of time. Yeah, it kind of makes sense where you had such a lot of real estate. Yeah, I think they fixed a lot of that as well though, it's like, I think there's cut scenes where it's widescreen and then it goes back to the kind of scoreboard bit where it's kind of split. I think they've got plans for that and some of the plans they've got that have been, you know, Stern have kind enough to share them with me are looking pretty good. I'm excited about it. It's my favourite game. I got the topper as well. It's bizarre, actually, I got the topper before I got the game. Oh really? It was a first ever. So yeah, so and then I played a lot of Dungeons & Dragons, well not a lot, I played a little bit of Dungeons & Dragons over the Christmas break. I think it's a I think I really think if you but if you I think I personally think the game shoots really well I know not everybody thinks that I think if you wanted a if you really had space for one game and you could only afford it you know one game and you'd have to keep it for a year I would put that game quite high up on the list to get because there is so much to do on it and also it's hard you know what i've started to realize is that you know the game changes when they re-spin the um the seat and and the the changes are quite different um more different than i would expect them to be and i think it's quite cool that they've made a game is i mean the game's huge i think you could play that own that game for five years and still not see half of it um so i kind of like it they still haven't got to version one yet unfortunately but and they've had a few bugs that were really awful Yeah, I heard about that. Yeah. Some real howlers that I don't know, you know, I don't know how they got past their release engineering, but it happens, right? But I think, you know, I was, like I say, if you like how that game shoots, the code on it is great. Anyway, and then back to kind of all our pinball stuff. So I went to Pinball at the Beach. And it was a great show, small show. It's not like Texas. It's more, actually, it reminds me a bit more of the Star Wars Pinball Game Available On Observer Online No Welcome back to the story of the cockroach. Because it is fucking hilarious. But yeah, so it was literally all the manufacturers are there. So Stern were there, Spooky, Barrels of Fun, JGP, everybody is there. It's good. And you know Jack was there Gary Stern was there Of all the events I go to I think that would be one of the ones that on my list because it just so cool to have a beach right next to the venue like that I remember Monday we flew out, we had a week's holiday and then we had the show. It was glorious, right? Yes. It could have been a little bit better. A bunch of friends out there, Travis and Joel from Triple J and a bunch of guys from the I looked up the Hangar Pinball location. If you're in that part of the world, Google Hangar Pinball. They've got a phenomenal location with some really, really, really great people. We went out on a sailboat into the bay. We just had like a day on a sailboat. And the weather was, it was sunny, it was a little bit windy, but Scott, it was just the most relaxing day I've had in years. We were just shooting the shit and I dropped my hat in the ocean, had to rescue it, and It was just such a great day. I loved it. Such great people were just talking and chatting the whole day. And it was one of the higher pinball guys that organized the boat and everything and he paid for it. And so I paid for lunch as a kind of thank you for him organizing the boat. But it was such a great day. I can't wait for next year on it because we had such a lot of fun. Andy Love every minute of it except for the mighty cockroach. So on the beach, the beach there is just beautiful. The sun is lovely. We were on the beach a couple of days.
    19:25
    It was it was absolutely phenomenal. The hotel. So the function room where the event is, is brilliant. It's in this kind of weird sort of tent like building. Right. And it's brilliant. It's not huge. It's probably about the same, maybe a little bit bigger than the Pinfest room, but Stern literally had, I think, just about every game they've ever made there since they became Stern Pinball. But not the Stern Electronic, but since... How many games then? Oh, good question. I don't know, maybe 200. Really? Yeah, maybe not even that number. Spooky had about 10 Beetlejuices and then they had every single Spooky game ever made was there, which is quite cool. Is it far for them to travel to transport all that? Yeah, it's miles away from them. They're near Chicago. They're in Wisconsin. But I think the guy, Ed Van Der Veen, who organizes it, is one of the guys that helped them out at TPF when they first started. So I think there's a bit of a loyalty thing there. Colin ran a tournament, it was a lot of fun.
    20:42
    And again the venue and the beach, that part of it was just phenomenal. The hotel, I'd say I wouldn't stay there again. If you watch the videos it comes out like it's some sort of kind of Savoy by the beach. Is there like other hotels nearby though? I imagine there is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's loads. I'd say St Pete's, right? So this is on St Pete's Beach, which is the far side of Florida. I used to go, me and Mandy used to go there fairly regularly years ago when we first met back in the 2000s. And it was an amazing place to visit. We loved it there. COVID and successive storms have really hurt it badly. It feels a bit run down. And then you've got this place in the middle of it where this hotel, I mean if you watch any of the YouTube videos or the brochures or the pictures, you know, the whoever runs marketing for this hotel deserves a pay rise because what you see there, you think, wow, this place, this is like the Ritz, right? Yeah. When you arrive, it's kind of like more like Motel 6. And it is, it is tired, like the drawers open by themselves because the chest of drawers are so ancient. It's got a hob gilt, hob type grill that, you know, died in the 80s. It's all very warm. You see they've tweaked a few things, but not enough. Like they've put the air conditioner, modern air conditioner, which thank God actually.
    22:19
    But it's it's it's very rundown and And also for what they charge. So there's a there was a pinball at the beach rate that was quite reasonable And but even that for that quality hotel was probably the top I would pay but their normal rates are like 400-500 bucks a night and more for some of the rooms and Wow. And then basically I'm down playing, I can't remember what I was playing, I think I was playing Winchester actually, and I've got my headphones and the phone rings and I answer while I'm playing and it's like Mandy screaming on the phone, there's a cockroach here, there's a cockroach here, and I'm like, and I kind of started to laugh and I was like, she's like, oh, and I was like, I had to bail, head up to the room and deal with this thing and there was two of them and it was huge and then we found the third one and then people And people were talking about it around the whole, around the, you know, because we, you kind of know a lot of people there from the pinball show. Sure. And there was a lot of people at it. And then, and then this is, so I was, I happened to be talking to a mate of mine that's, that's, he's built a few hotels in his lifetime. And he pinged me and said, I saw the cockroach. And he's like, what'd the hotel say? I said, I haven't been to see them yet, but I'm going to go see them because there was some other fuck up going on with the bill. Anyway, he says, Neil, right? He says, here's what happened, right? If they say it's, if he goes to me, here's what they'll do. They'll say, it's Florida, it's normal, right? That is a sack of shit, right? And I said, no, I know that because I've been to Florida hundreds of times. I've never seen a cockroach in my life, right? And then basically, it's certainly not one in a hotel that's supposed to be the level that hotel is for sure, right? I'm sure you've heard of the brand. Maybe if you're sleeping on the beach or something or you're sleeping in the... This isn't the Ibis, is it? So anyway, fast forward. I went to see them. Oh yeah, this is Florida, we expect it. We'll spray your room. And I'm like, hmm, I kind of said this about life, I think you should spray the whole hotel. Because they were just palming me off. And everyone's like, all these people checking in, starting to look at me. I was like, and I was showing them pictures of the cockroach. And the, you know, my take on this is you give them a chance to fix it and they just didn't. So we'll be back at the show, although probably me having to go to the hotel, they probably won't want me back. But anyway, I think it's, I kind of feel that you've got to... They didn't offer you any discount or compensation for the... They offered me free breakfast. And I said, I said, thanks, but I don't think my wife would want to eat in this hotel anymore.
    25:09
    That was true. And actually, here's the thing, the following day, Mandy gets these brutal migraine headaches. She got a migraine. She's convinced it was because she got freaked out by this thing and it was in the shower. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Scott Danesi. John Popadiuk, Bob Betor, Knapp Arcade, The Valley Company, Subsidiary of Walter Kidde & Co., Inc., Mirco Playfields, Tim Kitzrow, Knapp Arcade, Luckily it was the last day, we were checking out the next day and I said, like, if you want to check out, there's a hotel, there's a Hilton down the road, we'll go to the Hilton. Anyway, a lot of other people were talking about it, I think a lot of people will go to a different hotel and just walk to the event. And, you know, and actually there was an amazing steak place just next door to the hotel, absolutely stunning. We went there, the place was rammed and the food was phenomenal. That's why I love going to America. But yeah, so I played Beetlejuice. Yep. I'm going to say one thing. This will be an unpopular opinion. The Topper is the most hideous thing I think I've ever seen in my entire life. You're not a Beetlejuice fan, so you probably don't know why it's so scary and ugly looking, because it's meant to be scary and ugly looking. It's not. It's why anyone would want that in their home. It's beyond. It is absolutely freaking awful looking. It's well built, don't get me wrong, it's well built, but, and it's huge. I mean, it's massive. People say it's the same height as Evil Dead. So, tell me what I'm interested to know, right? And maybe you'll be able to answer this based on Evil Dead. Would you be able to ever fold the backbox down with the topper on or would you have to take the topper off? I'm convinced you'd have to take it off. Based on what I saw. That is the problem with these over the top toppers, isn't it? It's like they're not... Evil Dead you have to take it off. You can't leave it on with Evil Dead. It just weighs too much. Is it easy to remove? Yeah, Evil Dead, if you're moving, if you fold the top there, Evil Dead, you cannot keep the topper on. Yeah, but can you take it out easily to uncouple it from the... Oh, so on Evil Dead, there's two or four cables and then there's two wing nuts, spin, spin off. Crazy, then. The hard part is putting it back on because Evil Dead, the topper's got all this hair on it and it kind of gets in the way of finding where the hole is. Right. We don't have that problem. No, we definitely don't. So, anyway, the thing that I... We'll go back to Beetlejuice, go on. Tell me what you thought of the game. You said unpopular opinion, not as ugly, but what else? Yeah, so I mean, and look, Franchi's done a, I mean, you know, if you're a Beetlejuice fan, you can't help, you're gonna love what he's done with the art. It is so well presented, as he always does, frankly. And he, you know, he was there and said hello, and I had a quick chat with him. And so I played the game, and actually again, shout out to Spookily, he let me play it before the event opened, to, you know, to help test him. And the game, I felt that the game was a lot of fun. It is a fan layout. I know a lot of people have challenged me on that, but it is definitely a fan layout. It feels like you're playing, for me, it felt like I was playing Attack for Mars and they just moved the spaceship to the site. And that, to me, that's a good thing. You know, I kind of see this as a modern day Attack for Mars from a shots point of view. The one thing that I'm kind of, I actually forgot it was there more than I remembered, but then I went back to really have a go with that. The upper flipper seems a bit superfluous. And again, I'm not saying this as a criticism, but it kind of feels like they had a spot to stick something. So they stuck a flipper there and the kind of shots that it hits are not, you know, they're not. What shots does it hit at the moment? Well, I'm trying to remember. There's a couple of stand-ups that it hits. I think there might be a drop target, I can't remember. But what it's not is like a third flipper where you've got like a fan of shots. It's just not that. At least I couldn't see anything else other than that. It's not that it's bad or, you know, it's there, so it's there, but it just didn't feel like, um, it kind of feels like the extra flipper finger on the sling on Evil Dead, which is, I'll be honest with you, it's a bit of a gimmick on Evil Dead. I never, ever use it. I think what always threw me off with Evil Dead is you expect it to bounce, do you know what I mean? Like to kick it and then it's not used to it. I mean, I was, I have to say, I was looking at it and thinking, I wonder if I could put a sling in there, take it out and put a regular sling on it, because I actually think that would make the game better, genuinely. So what else would I be able to do? Like I said, the art's beautiful. The video on the back seems great. It's got this, it's got the, um, day-old mode where everything's dancing and singing. The challenge with that is, you know, when the sofa where the ball lock goes moves around. So you can't, you probably can't jack this game up too high because I think that will stop working or you'd have to turn it off. The deal with the song going is, it is, it's definitely a moment, it's fun. The other, I mean, the code's obviously super early, they've just, they've got a lot done. There's a couple of really nice shots on it. I think the orbit shots are really great on this game. There's one where it kind of goes all the way around and then comes to your flipper and then you whack it to hit the Polaroid camera. I felt that was a super satisfying shot. I really liked that. The rest of the shots feel like, to me, genuinely felt like AFM. Even the monster thing that moves around. That's not necessarily a bad thing anyway, but as you say... I think it's a good thing. And I mean, this other thing, and Spooky did say this, the game was super easy to play. I mean, I had almost an hour on ball one. Yeah, it's crazy when you told me that. I was like, wow, that's a long time. I kind of gave up because the people behind me were waiting for so long. I didn't play balls two and three. I think I put, I don't know, 600 million on it, I can't remember. I enjoyed playing it. I mean, so I haven't got one. I know everyone on the wall thinks I've bought one from Stefan, right? They did, yeah. I have not bought one from Stefan. Phone him up and ask him, right? He had one and then the price was like, you're having a laugh. So I didn't buy it from him, but I am looking for one. The Kinetasist quoted me in for the Dutch pinball news that they said that they're still making Back to the Future, but it was like a misquote anyway. Mel's probably made the most sensible choice he could have made, which is to leave them and go do something else. Oh really? Yeah, he's out. And I've got a lot of time for him. He's probably the only person in Dutch pinball, I don't know him that well to be fair, but he definitely felt more customer focused than the rest of them. The rest of them. So I spoke to him a few times at different gigs. I asked him to jack the backup so I could have a proper game of it and he did. I'm still going to make the rumor was going to be that obviously Stern, which was incorrect, obviously, but Stern was going to partner with Dutch now to make Back to the Future, which is obviously it's wrong. But I'm more interested to know they're still doing Back to the Future. I mean, I'm just like... They have the license, but there's four parts to the license. Well, in my view, there's four things you need for the license. I think they've got two of them. I think they still lack the other two. So they've got the movie rights. I think included in that is the audio rights, but I'm not sure. I don't. So I'm not convinced that includes Huey Lewis and the news. So actually, there's five things I think they need. So I think they've got the movie rights. I'm not sure if it includes the soundtrack. All that shit, the Libyans and all that good stuff, right? I don't think they've got Huey Lewis in the news because I'm pretty sure he's with a different production company so they would have to do that individually. They have DeLorean, apparently, so some company in America and Texas bought the rights to DeLorean. Apparently Dutch Pinball have agreed those rights to have the DeLorean on the Playfield. I would... I mean... So that's the other thing that I don't believe that they have. I heard a rumour... there was a rumour bouncing around that they'd signed up Christopher Lloyd. And there was another rumour that they'd signed Michael J Fox but not Christopher Lloyd. I mean, if they don't have those two, plus Biff, plus what's Marty McFly's dad, I forget his name, George, plus Marty's mum, I mean, those are core characters that they just have to have. Otherwise, we don't want another Predator where we have sort of rough some sort of... I'm sorry. We're struggling to make 300 units like a certain other company, right? But yeah. A Brazilian guy going, go to the chopper. And then there's one other thing that they need. It's going in my head. No, that's the cast members, right? Yeah. I know speaking to Joe Kaminkow who licensed it originally for Stern or Data East as it was back then Yeah yeah They struggled to get the rights and actually one of the reasons stern didn want to as i understand that i don you know it just what i kind of heard and pieced together because they going to get all the rights they didn want to make it um i think so i think and but also i think there are people in stern that would love to love some of the designers that would love to have made the game yeah because pinball now i say is A little bit more, I suppose, like as we haven't spoke about yet, we'll talk about it in a bit, but you know, obviously Pokemon and that, you just start to realize now that big IPs are possible.
    36:17
    And I would have thought, given that, you'd have a better time trying to persuade those licenses that, you know, you've got this kind of like reputation for making these games, you can do it. So... Yeah, no, I mean, you think that, but I think, to be honest, 90% of the time you're dealing with lawyers or agents, and then sometimes you've got to deal with a family.
    36:41
    You know, I noticed Stern put a bit of effort in trying to get Brodie. And I think from what I heard, I think George said this in one of the TPF sessions was Brodie's family just weren't interested at all. And if you know and then you're stuck what do you do we're not going to make the game um you know i think they had enough of brodie in the movie that that they got away with that uh yeah he wasn't on the playfield kind of annoying um but you know the fact he was in the movies i think made it work you know predator army's not even on the screen no i mean you see you occasionally you occasionally see his his boot knife The other cut scenes and and it's done or maybe not yeah right it's a joke yeah
    37:36
    you know i think the um i think yeah the big big themes are there but i don't you should like you know i think predator has proven don't do a theme unless you've got it blues brothers even more so um but you can do it you know i look at jurassic park where stern had very little amount of the Pedro blessed headscarf stomach puzzle Internate Captions © 2011, Open Man Executive Publishing, www.OpenManFsectionorgan.com
    38:47
    A couple of occasions where they got a title, they believed they would get the assets they wanted and they didn't. And I think the last one, and I don't know this, but this is my guess, they were deep down a load of work on Indiana Jones and then killed it. Oh really? I'm gonna, I would put money on it that was because there was some license that they just either couldn't make the business case work for or they just couldn't get. Well that's really based on like a bit like Toy Story 4 if it was. Yeah, I mean, what the hell? Worst movie out of the entire franchise. And then, and then a pinball machine with no toys on it. Um, yeah, I mean, it's just... The irony, isn't it? You build a game based on toys and you put an iPad on it. Tell you what is funny, actually, in Toy Story 5, I've noticed, I don't know if it's like the main villain or something, but they've made it so that the lily pad, which is like an iPad thing, And I just thought that's quite funny because there's an iPad in the Toy Story pinball machine. That's quite, you know, when you think about it. Yeah, I mean, that is like a big iPad in the back of it. And so, yes, I think Beetlejuice, I think, I mean, I couldn't hear the audio because the show.
    40:01
    I think those have got an order. I think they'll be happy with it. A lot of people say, Neil, Evil Dead or Beetlejuice. So cards on the table. I am a massive Evil Dead fan, right? I'm not a big Beetlejuice fan, so I've got bias here, right? I'm human. I think Evil Dead, if I was to strip these games and not have any theme on them, I strongly believe Evil Dead shoots way better. Was Evil Dead more at release date on sticker price? No, it was less. It was less? Quite a bit less, yeah. Wow. And they made less Evil Dead, so...
    40:42
    Yeah, that's true. I think the shots on Evil Dead... Again, I think Spooky had done a great job with a wide body.
    40:51
    There's a lot of shots on it. The shots are pretty... All of them are pretty satisfying. And I kind of feel that Evil Dead... If you could only have one, I would be pitching for Evil Dead. But don't get me wrong... We've got a crack on. What about Winchester? Winchester. So I played that in Chicago. I played it again. I mean, it's a tough game. No question about it. And when you see Karl play it, he makes it look easier. Actually, I'm going to get to play that tonight because I'm running the tournament at Ace Goge, the best barbecue on the planet, by the way. If you're ever in LA, go to Ace Goge. It is amazing. All you can eat. It's great. It's a great place to go. I think that's the best Korean barbecue on the planet, by the way. If you're ever in LA, go to Ace Goge. It is amazing. All you can eat. It's Korean barbecue, just the business, and it's got an awesome set of games. Shane, who runs it, is a superhero. So again, they've got one because Karl's a buddy. It's Karl's local place. I don't think he'll be there tonight, though, but I'm running a tournament up there, which I'm looking forward to. It's a pre-INDIS tournament. So yeah, it's a tough game. The code hadn't moved much since I last played it, which was a little bit disappointing. I was going to ask you if there was like code updates, but okay. They put a big release out. I think it must've come out just after it. I think they've done a few tweaks. It's a tough game, but I really enjoyed it. The vibe of it's just amazing. It does, it's for me, it's like a, if you were to, the other, They could take the same layout, theme, etc. and they could put Luigi Mansion on it. It's this kind of spook, you know, the haunted house here in Luigi's Mansion. Yeah, that would be pretty cool actually as an IP. Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think we're going to see more and more video games. Well now that Nintendo's in there, right, that's pretty cool. Pokemon Company is, just there's a subtle difference, we'll talk about that in a minute. I think, I really like Winchester. I don't think it's going to be for everybody though. I wouldn't worry about it being for everybody. There's only 500 of the damn things. Well, I mean, that's the upside. You know, probably at least for a year, you'll probably get your money back. So, I kind of feel that Beetlejuice, anyone can play that. Winchester, there's a couple of tight shots that you're gonna have to get used to. Again, I personally love games like that. So I really enjoyed it. And again, a shout out to the Barrels of Fun guys. Who's their boss? I forget his name. David. Sorry, David Van Es. David and I had a really good chat. We're talking about a lot of things. The guy's a machine. He was there day and night and really, really, really welcoming. I'm a huge fan of the Spooky Guys, I met a few more of them, I got a bunch of merch and a few other things from them, but really lovely people. And then Stern had Walking Dead there, obviously their big game at the moment, and a lot of people thought Pokemon would be there but it wasn't, which is kind of annoying. The launch for Pokemon, or at least the media launch, was the following week. I got invited to it but unfortunately I couldn't make it. Steve Adubato, Mark You know, so Beetlejuice, great, Winchester, great, Walking Dead, great, all good titles. CGP were there with Harry Potter. I had a couple of games of that. I still, I don't know, it's just... Do you need to get one now? Nah, it's just not... it just doesn't do it for me. I think it's this... the whole thing is kind of geared around this scoop, but it just, I don't know, it just doesn't feel... It's not a game I just naturally want to go back to. I did have a good few games out in John though. It was a fucking awesome game.
    44:49
    Really, really, really well done. And then there was a couple of other kind of weird games. They had this game, I forget, it's called Rotate or something, where it was a table pinball machine, four players, four plungers, and the actual playfield rotated. Weird. I think the one you play, lose the ball, it would rotate it to player two who would play. It was the most coolest thing I've ever seen. I mean, the game wasn't great, unfortunately, but it was, it was, it was... Sounds good, yeah. Yeah, it was good. I mean, keeping that thing running must be massive, but, um, it was, like, you just see it in the pub, you know, sat around it, people playing it, I just think it would be massive.
    45:30
    So, yeah, so Pokemon, I ordered one. I've got an LE coming. I would never buy a Pokemon. I'm not interested. There's nothing for me. I bought a Pokemon. Who would have thought? Neil's bought another Sternelli, everyone. News after. I have to say, so look, Phil sold out of them. He was a potential, but look, I'm a barrels. You can see it there, look. Okay, yeah. Well done, mate. Tidy in there. Yeah, that's, I mean, David, send Scott a fiver. He's given you all that. Yeah, exactly. All that publicity. You deserve a five or four for that. David, where are our games? Scott and I demand our games. Wait patiently. I do harass our local David in the UK saying, is there an update on when we're going to get Winchester? But not yet, I've heard. Apparently they're still recruiting them, so who knows, right? Maybe we'll get it. I am not convinced we will get our games by the end of March, though. That's the new bag. No, it won't be March. I think April, personally. But when I thought that I thought that wasn't the promise that all the games would be done by March. I think they messed up because David, as in Van Es, made the assumption he could run two games on the line at once. And I think that proved a lot more difficult reality. And they then had to finish up June, which obviously they stopped the orders in by the end of what was it December. And then they had to then run with the last few units of June. And now they're just full time on All of these are pinball games, and I think the most popular ones are Pinball Winchester. So I don't know how many games they're going through a week versus a month. I don't know, but like the I imagine they've done more than 20 or something. Yeah, I've seen about 15 of them, I think, on the Facebook and Pinside. Yeah, you could run an extrapolation, right? There isn't that many to run through. So, but I don't I genuinely don't I mean, I think this game is going to keep them busier till probably July. Maybe. Actually probably until... Actually David did tell me that they probably wouldn't have a new game at TPF. It would be after that. Really? Okay. I suspect this will keep them busy until then, maybe a bit busier. I mean one thing... Actually this is the thing I love about David. You know, we were talking about Dune, I played it again and Dune is definitely a great game. Getting better and better with all the code updates and I had that back glass on it, it's just staggeringly nice.
    47:52
    You know, I think they realized that there was, you know, there's probably another way of doing what they did with June that would have been better for it. But, you know, he's such a nice bloke. Yeah, absolutely. Really nice guy. Yeah, so, Pokemon, I couldn't make it out of there. What's your take, Scott? Give us your Pokemon take. So for me it was a no-brainer to do it as a brand.
    48:18
    Pokemon people don't I think maybe realize it in the pinball industry, but my god the trading card world makes pinball look insignificant when it comes to spending money like there's like Logan Paul selling trading cards for like 16 million for one card. I'm telling you now I'm amazed that anybody actually got a pinball machine as an LE I'm not sure if I would have bought this game because I would have thought all the trading card collectors would have scalped the hell out of it. I don't fully expect it to lose value. I honestly think it will probably go up in value even though I know people hate that. They don't like seeing it as an investment opportunity. I'm telling you now though when it comes to trading card games, they're just there to make money. It is a massive money making scheme, hunting Pokemon these days. I don't think it's like it used to be when you're a kid. People used to just collect them as, you know, trade them in the playground. Those days are dead. It's taken over by, like, millennials crowding over, like, vending machines, fighting to get the latest... I mean, you can see it. Just type in Costco, Pokemon, and there's people literally punching each other to get the latest box of Pokemon cards. Like, to understand... Everyone's got their... I kind of find it funny, like, on Pinside there's a bunch of pinball people ripping the piss out of Pokemon people, and I'm like, people in glass houses shooting through stoves, you know what I mean? It's like, which is the weirder hobby? Yeah, I'm focusing obviously truly on the value there, but I mean, for me at least, I feel like it will hold value at the very least. I think as a game, I was a little bit disappointed in the art package only from a perspective if you had it in a lineup, you'd only see the word Pokemon regardless of the edition of the game at the front. And I felt like that was a little misstep. Art package wise, I think it's very on form. They've obviously had to follow what the license dictated, so they probably didn't have much freedom anyway. But it looked great. I think it was nice. It was colorful, exactly as Pokemon should be. The assets look great. The sound seems okay. They had Meowth, I believe. I've not followed anime for a long time, so I don't actually know if it was a new voice actor. I'm used to the kind of like early seasons of Pokemon when I was a kid, so it didn't sound like the Meowth I knew anyway. But the only thing I was griping about, if I'm honest with you, is that you didn't have Jesse and James from the Rocket, Team Rocket. Yeah, I think, I mean, a lot of people have made that same observation. I think it is. And also the players don't seem to be there either, because you're the player, right? You don't play Ash, yeah. But then again, that seems to be a tired old trope of any pinball machine with licensing. You don't play the character from the movie, you are the character, blah blah blah. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, it's... yeah, I mean, I think they probably ran out of cash or... Whatever. It doesn't bother me too much not playing Ash, if I'm honest with you. They still have The usual Pokemon in there, right? You got like, and the fact I've, I don't know, and you maybe you can have firm this up for me or not, but I've heard you'll be able to trade Pokemon through Insider Connect. If that's true. Yeah, so I think, I think there's, I think there's a load of Insider Connected stuff to come out. Yeah, that'd be really cool. I mean, honestly, I think it's the perfect, like, platform for pinball. It's going to bring lots of new people in. You'll have people coming up, logging in online. Man, if I was an operator, I would love this. That is a cash cow. Like, it is going to be absolutely hammered on location that game. I guarantee it. Yeah, I mean, I was talking to one of the distributors. Actually, when we were on the boat, actually a shout out to Troy at Tilt Amusements. Really, really great guy. He was on the boat with us. He was a bit narth because Stern announced it whilst he was on this boat and his, like, phone went on fire. I bet. He was like, Jesus Christ, and he's like, like, they did the, I think the pre-thing, you know, the little teaser that they release, and he was like trying to cope with it because I don't think he knew it was coming out that day specifically.
    52:24
    He, I mean, he was saying, Neil, I'll have a hundred of these in locations in about a week. Like, holy shit. I mean, it's a king title. I think I'm really glad Stern somehow managed to Your Wheels cannot stand...
    53:08
    I was like holy shit. I have to say, back in the day, I got a couple of Pokemon games and I thought they were absolute pants. I played a fair amount of Pokemon when I was a kid on the Game Boy. I had it on Game Boy and Game Boy Advance so Pokemon Red Blue Yellow God knows how many other ones I did Ruby Edition But like for me back on the game a little bit disappointed It was kind of a if I honest with you a by the numbers layout You talk about fan layouts, that's a fan layout if I ever saw one. I mean, Stern were pretty open about it. We've made this game easy and approachable. Which is fine. I think they're trying to bring in new audiences and this is the perfect mechanism for that for me. So, I can't say too much for that. I am so unconvinced about it. Oh, we get one big title and all of a sudden, you know, we double the population of pinball players. No, you won't. You'll just get operators happy because they'll be making more buck at the location, I think. I mean, I definitely think... I mean, there are titles where I think you could move the dial, like Dungeons & Dragons. You know, Stern went to a few Dungeons & Dragons events and they definitely shipped a load of games. Yeah, they definitely shipped a load of games because of that. And actually, there was one thing they were at before they opened the doors and this, I don't know what the venue was, but the place was rammed. And I was like, holy shit. I mean, I know, I know it's a big, I know it's a big thing. But when you see a convention like that, where there's like literally, it looked like there was like, I don't know, 20,000 people there. I was like, holy shit, probably more than that.
    54:54
    Yeah, I mean, for me, I know nothing about Pokemon other than Bulbasaur. I don't know. And I don't know why I know him. Pikachu, sure, but yeah. Oh, yeah, Pikachu. Everyone, I mean, everyone knows Pikachu. But Bulbasaur is the only non Pikachu Pikachu that I know, or whatever they're called. So I kind of look, I'm kind of intrepidly going to play this game from the point that I hope it's a good pinball game.
    55:21
    I think it's got the huge potential for replay. Also, the reason that I bought it though, everyone's like, eh, you can't do that. I was out on this game, right? Let me tell you, right? I was out on this game. Phil had sold all the LEs, EC had no more LEs, they were all gone. And then the price fiasco happened, which we'll come to next. And the Pokemon trailer came out and I had it on my laptop and my grandson, Theo, comes over. I'm watching this and he's like, granddad, what's that? I was like, it's Pokemon Pinball. He's like, what? And I turn the volume up and he's watching, he's like that. I bet. And he said, granddad, are you getting Pokemon Pinball? I said, I don't think so, Theo. He's like, why not? I was like, I'm not a big Pokemon guy. He's like, but I love Pikachu. I phoned, I pinged Phil and said, have you got any more games? He's like, nah, they're all sold out. I was like, what? I kind of left it at that. I was like, sorry, Theo, they've sold out. And then during the pricing thing, I was talking to one of my many friends at Stern and they asked me, Neil, did you get a game? I was like, nah, they'd sold out of all these. Like, do you want one? I was like, yes.
    56:35
    And he said, he said, we'll get another one till episode going. And then, and then it's alright. That's really lucky, I must admit, man. Cause... And I should thank you to Stern for that. I feel blessed and special. I mean, it's good. I'll probably sell it almost a week after I get it. No, you'll have a lot of fun since I've let you. I mean, I'm hoping to get to play it this week over here. I think it will be a fun, simple shooter. I think it's going to have a lot of replayability. I like the mechanism in the centre, which is the meowth sort of air balloon ship thing. I think it looks incredibly smooth. I like what they've done with it. But I felt for me, the only downsides I feel like because it was the half Gomez, half Jack Danger thing, I just got the feeling like the game could have been more and it was kind of cut back and made simpler because they were like, we don't want to make complex ball paths. We just want to create a game that's accessible. Yeah, I mean, I keep hearing that, but I mean, what I heard was that Pinball at the Beach, I think it was Jack that said it, or was it George? They said that the game was like 80 or 90% Jack. So I don't think they changed an awful lot. Well, that's good in that way, right? But yeah, disappointing in the back. I don't think you're going to have crazy ball paths on a game that you want to be open to others to play, right? So... I'll tell you my biggest gripe, I forgot this pun. The ball does not eat the ball.
    58:06
    It does actually, it goes underneath the screen. It cheats if you've got the premium or LE, then the diver lifts up. If you've shelled out half your life savings, you get the ball eating the ball. I looked at the trailers and a few videos of people playing it, and then a few people that were at the launch event, which I was invited to but I couldn't make because of work. Basically, you know, I was paying a few people, Retro Ralph, Tom Graff, Vic and others that were there, Mel, and they were all saying this game's fun, really fun. So I was kind of like, and then I think Theo saying that he was disappointed I wasn't getting it. Yeah. Kind of made me get it. Anyway, thank you again, thank you to Stern, EC and Phil. Given the new price adjustments, which I know we're going to talk to very shortly, I would have been tempted to get one. I'm not going to lie, because it's not something I, I just think I need to try it first. And I obviously, I would wait. That was what I was going to do. I was going to wait, play it, and if it was a good game, I'd pick up a premium. I'm going to go to the next question. Whenever I'm not convinced about a theme, you know, I'll weigh in. Because you know for a fact as well as I do, right, Stern in the UK was kind of like, why buy a game that should be cheaper for more money when I can get a boutique game that's got more packed in it for the same cash? It's like, it's just for a value proposition, it just didn't feel like the right choice anymore but, yeah. Well, I think and, you know, potentially, you know, resale which, I mean, Evil Dead The resale prices for that are nuts. I've got two of them as well. But I don't think... I'm trying to get a Beetlejuice again if you've got one. I'm not, by the way, I'm not paying... Don't tempt me, I can sell you my one. I'm paying list. I'm not paying anything other than list. No, you're paying double mate. I won't buy it mate. No, I won't either. Let me tell you, this game is not worth a premium. Beetlejuice is not worth a premium. If you've paid a premium for it, you will regret it. I promise you that. It's a fun game, it's a good game, it is not a premium title in my view. Absolutely not. Let's move on to the pricing fun. Yes. We're at 1 hour and 15 minutes. I'm going to get a house off my wife soon. I'm close to death time, I need to eat something. Yeah. So, Luke, I have been talking to Stern, I don't know, for two or three years, more than that actually, to say you've got pricing badly wrong in the UK. And I did, and many of you have heard me, I'm going to buy a game from the US, I'm going to see how much it costs, I'm going to compare it, blah blah blah blah, and I did all that, did all the work for that. Important Star Wars, again, help me clarify that for LEs, but I've imported, if you go to the club you'll see a few games there that I've imported from the US, you can tell by the coin door at the front, right? So I've got a pretty good understanding of prices and shipping costs and not shipping on a boat, I fly it, right? Yeah, air freight. So I've been making this, I've been saying blah, blah, blah, and I say that to Gary, to Seth, to John, to the new guys, they've got a new chief revenue guy, I forget his name. And that's a good thing. I mean, you know, we're all in this together, but I think the bottom line is, you know, it's the same game. You know, I think we're all in this together, but I think we're all in this together. And, you know, I think Stern's been looking at, you know, in the US, you know, I was like, oh, the market in the US, I think the market's pretty decent right now. I don't see what we're seeing here in terms of, yeah, there's used prices have been going down a little bit. I think that's a supply issue rather than a market issue. They started to pick up a little bit as well. But, you know, I definitely think we had an oversupply for a while. I think that's, you know, becoming less of an issue.
    62:36
    Helped by big titles like Harry Potter, that's just, you know, they're going to be making that until Harry, you know, until the guy who played Harry Potter is 100, I think, which is good news for them. But, you know, every time I saw Stern and a few other Brits that got a TPF, etc., you know, they banged this drum as well. But, you know, I made a, you know, I put together a few bits and pieces on paper and said, guys, explain this to me. And at some point Stern, they announced this at DPO, but I'd got wind of it before. They were, they told me like, you know, we're going to put a bit more focus into Europe. We'd love to have a chat. So I had a, I don't know, about a couple of conference calls, you know, I gave them my position on what I thought, where the market was, some of the issues, some of the opportunities. I also said, you know, in the US, it's very much barcade focused. Here in Europe, it's probably more club focused. And I said, you need to figure out how you adapt to that. And these clubs aren't rich clubs. They're like, you know, they're not for profit. And most of the games probably are borrowed rather than owned. Really good chat with John, Seth, and actually Gary as well. And, you know, they're like, yeah, we're going to do something, we're going to do something. And then DPO, if you're at DPO, Jack and Gary said it at their talk, you know, that, you know, we're moving John over to focus on Europe and we're going to start trying to help build the UK base. And then I want to say, I can't remember when it was, but it must be about a week before, maybe longer than that, a week before the trailer, the teaser came out for Pokemon. And it was like, what I heard was, oh, there's going to be a European RRP. And I was like, oh really? That's cool. I'm hoping that it would be lower. And then, you know, there was a...
    64:53
    things happening and then the game got released and the pricing came out and I said to Phil, what's the price on the game? And he's like, oh, the price has gone up. I was like, what? I was like, Stern told me it should be coming down. Yeah. Because they're putting an RRP on. He's like, well, ElectroGone have told me it's going to be more. And I'm like, wow. So, you know, I kind of pinged them and said, I don't know, maybe it would help us if you put a UK price on as well as a European one.
    65:27
    And to be fair, so I suggested that... Especially when the dollar rate's been weaker recently as well, right? Yeah, I suggested that. They might have... So actually, because I'm a dick, I'm going to take credit for it. It's all because of fucking me. I don't know if they were planning on doing that. I don't think so. I think there was going to be a Euro price and then they added a GBP price, right? And a few conversations, you know, if anyone wants to, if anyone disbelieves me, I've got a few things I could show you because there are people who just think we make shit up. I've literally been banging on this drum. I was chatting to Phil and David and I had a chat with John from ElectroCoin. He called me to ask me what was going on. I look at the thread for Pokemon and it's literally like, who can we set fire to for the pricing? Is it Stern? Is it this guy? Is it that? It's like there's like pitches and there's torches and pitchforks. We will find this evil person, right?
    66:41
    And you know, anyway, we've got to a place where, you know, prices are what, two grand, three grand better now, right? Massive difference. Massive. And I have to say, if you'd asked me that six months ago, I would say no chance, right?
    67:01
    But I think Stern have listened, they've analyzed and they've acted. A lot, they get, you know, lots of people give Stern a load of shit. I mean, the only thing I'm concerned about, right, is the knock-on effect to the second hand market. So anybody who bought a game that was, you know, still in production now and then goes to sell it, that you're instantly 2 to 3k worse off. I get the fact that... Yeah, but I don't know if they're going to sell games before Pokemon at the new pricing. I think this is only going to apply to new games. I hate to be that person because I'm not sure if I can say it or not, but I have already been told it can be done and it is being done. Oh, okay. Well, I mean... Game reproduction is basically on the new price. Yeah, yeah. So maybe, so new games, yeah, but look, we've had this both ways, right? So I think I get it, right? Yeah, I mean, it has happened, right? So you... If they built a new batch of Kongs, there's a chance they could be the new pricing. I'll remind everybody though, right, that there's a bunch of people who bought Stranger Things at six grand and then they made a new batch at eight. And then all those fuckers put their price up when they were selling them by two grand and claimed that that was... Those effers! I mean, I mean, oh yeah, I'm the community, but I'm gonna fuck you for two grand.
    68:25
    Really? I don't know, maybe I'm too charitable, Scott, but that, that to me feels a bit of a laugh, really.
    68:35
    Yeah, maybe we've lost money on other games, I don't know, but I, I, um, that doesn't feel community-minded and, and anyway... I mean, back on the pricing, like, though, it is a genuine shocker that we've now got games at two to three grand cheaper. It does put I think it's a good thing that Stern back in the, I would say, you know, forefront to say this is a choice now. It's a really good viable choice. There's value for money in that game now. It's a definite positive thing. I felt like, you know, Stern was in a death spiral because I don't know what the sales were like for Sterns in the UK, but I can't imagine they were as good as they were. Yeah, they were definitely down. You can see that. No question about it. I think at least... I'm grateful you've done it. Yeah, I'm grateful I've done it too. I mean, it's good. So, you know, look, I definitely, Stern make their own choices. I kind of gave them data and informed them. Yeah, I'm glad they did it. I'm glad I know. Whether that was relevant or not, I don't know. But I was in the middle of the discussion with them. I think they've done a great thing. I think they've made pricing much more transparent. You got to keep doing what you've got to do.
    69:48
    All right. Hey IFouz, it's been a long day and I am out and I think next day is what I want to do. I'm so sorry, you know, every month I press the Chanel radio and it's ready to go if possible. Hopefully better than them. I'm going to do a TPF one, hopefully, in a couple of weeks time, or maybe a post-TPF one, I don't know, we'll have to think about it. But apologies that we were late in getting this out, that's life, and I'll leave you with one glorious message. In this world, my friend, there are two types of people. People with loaded guns and people who dig. You dig? Is that Dirty Harry Common or was it? I don't know who that is. I don't think I got it right, but it's from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Oh, is it? Oh, yeah. Okay, fair enough. Glorious quote. Yeah, so go dig your pinball, have fun, enjoy it. And when you don't play so well, don't stress about it. There are people fighting a war in Ukraine.
    71:10
    Context for you folks. Scott, pleasure as always. Give my love to everybody and we'll see you soon. See you later. Bye bye.