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The Pinball Show Ep 48: Zen Studios Try Drinking Our Milkshake?!

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 36m·held·Jan 25, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.029

TL;DR

Harry Potter pinball license reportedly going to Joe Kaminkow/Stern; industry licensing and recent game updates discussed.

Summary

In this episode of The The The Pinball Show, hosts Zach Minney and Joe Fox discuss recent industry news including Jersey Jack's exclusive Guns N' Roses machines, American Pinball hiring of veteran mechanical engineer Sophia Ryan, and Led Zeppelin code update with new lighting enhancement package ($449.99). A significant portion focuses on licensing discussions from Roger Sharpe appearance on The Super Awesome Pinball Show, with strong signals pointing toward Joe Kaminkow securing the Harry Potter pinball license for Stern/Kapow, including analysis of licensing terms, costs, and strategic concerns about asset availability from major IP holders.

Key Claims

  • Only seven Guns N' Roses machines are being produced by Jersey Jack, going to band members including Duff, Dizzy, Melissa, Axel, and Slash.

    high confidence · Ken Rudberg, Jersey Jack Pinball correspondent

  • Sophia Ryan, a veteran mechanical engineer from Williams (1990s) with patents on Dracula, Doctor Who, and Popeye, has been hired as Senior Mechanical Engineer at American Pinball.

    high confidence · Kaz, American Pinball correspondent

  • Led Zeppelin enhancement lighting package costs $449.99 and ships in March.

    high confidence · The The Pinball Show content, corroborated by both hosts

  • Standard IP licensing agreements in pinball are typically three-year terms, with potential extensions based on product success.

    high confidence · Roger Sharpe, The Super Awesome Pinball Show interview, cited by Zach Minney

  • Joe Kaminkow (not Joe Fox) is acquiring the Harry Potter pinball license for Stern/Kapow.

    medium confidence · Roger Sharpe statement on The Super Awesome Pinball Show quoted by Zach Minney; Zach interprets this as 'foregone' based on licensing patterns

  • Harry Potter licensing may cost $2 million or more, potentially double the Beatles license cost of approximately $1 million.

    medium confidence · Zach Minney speculation based on Franchi's hypothetical and Beatles licensing rumor

  • Roger Sharpe expressed concerns about Harry Potter licensing restrictions and asset availability compared to other major IPs like Star Wars.

    high confidence · Roger Sharpe, The Super Awesome Pinball Show, interpreted by Zach Minney

  • Stranger Things pinball, while a 'dynamite license,' may not have reached the demographic of pinball buyers effectively.

    medium confidence · Roger Sharpe, The Super Awesome Pinball Show, cited by Zach Minney

Notable Quotes

  • “Without the help of Jersey Jack Pinball, this never would have become a reality. This is a company that recognizes innovation and supports talent.”

    Charles Acosta, Pinball Photos LLC @ Industry News segment — Demonstrates Jersey Jack's commitment to marketing innovation and collaboration with photography/media partners

  • “I know that Joe going to get Harry Potter. It going to be great.”

    Roger Sharpe @ Referenced from Super Awesome Pinball Show — Key statement suggesting Joe Kamenkau (not Joe Fox) will acquire Harry Potter license; indicates likely deal already in works

  • “Star Wars wasn't as absorbent as Harry Potter would be.”

    Roger Sharpe @ Referenced from Super Awesome Pinball Show — Suggests Harry Potter licensing is more restrictive/expensive than even Star Wars

  • “You get them. You can get people to pony up for a license. But are they going to dance? Are they really going to give you the assets that you want?”

    Roger Sharpe @ Referenced from Super Awesome Pinball Show — Core concern about major IP licensing: willingness to pay vs. willingness to grant creative assets

  • “It changes the entire atmosphere based on the video I've seen, and it changes the feel of that game and the experience... Same thing here. So $449, okay. But it gives you as much flash, razzle-dazzle as a topper does.”

    Zach Minney @ Led Zeppelin lighting discussion — Justifies premium pricing of integrated lighting enhancement over traditional toppers

  • “Upper playfield has to have some sort of incline that comes off of the main playfield that needs a ramp or a Vuck to kick it up there... it goes up on the Z axis, not the X or Y.”

    Zach Minney @ Playfield design discussion — Clarifies technical definition of upper playfield vs. split playfield; references Bruce Nightingale debate

Entities

Zach MinneypersonJoe FoxpersonJoe KaminkowpersonRoger SharpepersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanyKapowcompany[name withheld pending review]

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Jersey Jack announces only 7 Guns N' Roses Team Edition machines for band members with personalized badges

    high · Official news from Ken Rudberg, JJP correspondent; specific names and quantities provided

  • ?

    personnel_signal: American Pinball hires Sophia Ryan, Williams veteran with patents on classic machines, as Senior Mechanical Engineer

    high · Kaz, American Pinball correspondent; named position and credentials confirmed

  • ?

    code_update: Stern Led Zeppelin receives version 0.93 with wizard mode, lighting enhancements, song rule tweaking, and mode balancing

    high · Direct discussion of update features by hosts and Brian Cosner correspondent

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern releases enhancement lighting package for Led Zeppelin Pro at $449.99, integrating with game code and outcompeting traditional toppers

    high · Explicit pricing and availability announcement; hosts discuss value proposition vs. PinStadiums ($280+)

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Harry Potter pinball license reportedly being acquired by Joe Kamenkau for Stern/Kapow based on Roger Sharp's statement and behavioral analysis

    medium · Roger Sharp quote 'I know that Joe going to get Harry Potter. It going to be great'; Zach's interpretation of licensing patterns suggesting 'foregone' deal

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.289

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:10
The Pinball Network is online. Launching, The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:26
It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Except you have so many best friends, I'm starting to feel insulted by that comment. I've got a lot of besties. No, we are best friends. We talk a lot, and I'm happy to have you in my life. Oh, that sounded so sincere. Okay, it's one of my best buddies, depending on the day that you ask him. He is beloved. He's kind of a pinball sweetheart, to be honest with you. A lot of people know him. I don't know if everybody's met him. You might have seen him in a show or whatnot. He's an enthusiast, a collector, a hobbyist. I think he's a competitive base pinball player. He hosts a lot of stuff up in the Delaware area, which, quite frankly, nothing else goes on up there. Anyway, so, ladies and gentlemen, this is the sexy, the beautiful, the wonderful, the hasn't cut his hair in a couple weeks, Joe Fox. Hey, Zach. How are you, buddy? I'm doing well. I'm doing very well. What are you up to today? You know, just hanging around waiting for you to get on the line so we can record this show and have your ratings tank. It's been tough, man. It's been a tough week, busy week. You've got a lot going on with the Pinball Industry Awards premiering this week. Oh, thank you for that. I'm sure you've got a lot of time put into that, like I know you do with anything you get involved in. Things are looking and sounding really good. I can't wait to share it with everybody else. Yeah, I'm excited. Only two more days from when everyone's listening to this podcast. You're going to watch it? Absolutely. Got my alarm set on my phone. I'm going to take a nap that day so I can stay up late since it's 9 o'clock on my end. Oh, watch out, old man. You're in your 30s. What do you mean? Well, you know, not to sound like that new progressive commercial and tell everyone what time I get up, but I'm up at 5.30 every day. So by the time 9, 10 o'clock rolls around, I'm ready to call it a day. To take your crew of dogs outside. Yeah, just a few of them.
person
Charles Acostaperson
Ken Rudbergperson
Todd Tuckeyperson
Greg Boneperson
Bruce Nightingaleperson
Super Awesome Pinball Showpodcast
The Pinball Showpodcast
Guns N' Rosesproduct
Led Zeppelinproduct
Wonkaproduct
Houdiniproduct
Harry Potterproduct
Pinball Industry Awardsevent
Keith Elwinperson
Dwight Sullivanperson

industry_signal: Roger Sharp discusses standard pinball IP licensing as 3-year terms with upfront payment plus royalties; major licenses command $1-2M+ fees

high · Explicit statements from Roger Sharp on Super Awesome Pinball Show regarding terms, Beatles rumor (~$1M), Harry Potter speculation (~$2M)

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Roger Sharp expresses concern that major IP holders may accept payment but withhold creative assets needed for compelling pinball games

    medium · Quote: 'You can get people to pony up for a license. But are they going to dance? Are they really going to give you the assets that you want?'

  • $

    market_signal: Zach Minney comments that Wonka CE machines have appreciated significantly during COVID (from ~$800 to $2,000+), motivating recent RE-purchases

    medium · Zach: '$800 games are selling for $2,000, and it just keeps going up' due to market scarcity during and after COVID

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Discussion suggests Harry Potter may surpass Star Wars in licensing value/restriction due to greater modern relevance and lack of prior pinball iterations

    medium · Zach's analysis: 'Harry Potter reaches well more than even Star Wars does' and younger demographic pull; no existing HP pinball alternatives vs. multiple Star Wars versions

  • ?

    design_innovation: Stern's Led Zeppelin enhancement lighting represents new monetization model for integrated, code-synced lighting vs. traditional aftermarket toppers

    high · Zach compares to UV Stranger Things package and PinStadium as precedents; $449.99 positioned as integrated upgrade model

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Led Zeppelin receiving positive reception for visual presentation and playfield shots despite mixed initial gameplay reaction

    medium · Greg Bone quoted as initially mixed but impressed in-person; hosts discuss 'looks good' and 'damn fun to shoot' (Ritchie design consistent quality)

  • ?

    community_signal: Ongoing community debate over definition of 'upper playfield' vs. 'split playfield' involving Bruce Nightingale and hosts

    low · Humorous segment where Zach clarifies Z-axis definition and mentions prior conversation with Bruce Nightingale

    • 2:48
    Hey, I just want to give you one disclaimer here for everyone else to know. Any opinions that I give in this recording here don't actually count until May of 2021 when I've hit the five-year mark of being in this hobby, since that apparently is a prerequisite to give any opinion on anything in the pinball industry. You're very witty. I like that. Nicely done. I thought you've been in longer than that. It feels like it, but no. Memorial Day of 2016 is when I got my first delivery of a pinball machine from Todd Tucky at TNT. Oh, that's cool. It just was a slippery slope from there. Did he deliver it or anybody deliver it from there? No. I can't remember going that far back, but I believe that it was maybe Stephen and his nephew.
    3:44
    It was not Kurt. Kurt's been here plenty of times. Frank's been here multiple times. Frank, yeah, Frank. I was doing some editing for the Pinball Industry Awards, and I was reviewing some of his most recent work. That's Todd Tuckey over at TNT Amusements. Go share, like, subscribe to his YouTube channel at TNT Amusements. But the guy's still got it. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And he's been putting more out since COVID started. Yeah, he's very funny. He gets humor. I like how his production is hokey, and he goes with it.
    4:18
    He made me chuckle. I love some Todd Tucky. Yeah, I still watch him. I can't believe he's continued to go, and they just keep getting better. I went with a dry spurt for a while with him just being busy, but I've gone back. So that's very cool. Hey, you know what happened this week that I'm really excited about? What's that? You and I just purchased new pinball machines of the same title. No. We couldn't have. We did. And they're a JJP game. Well, I haven't gotten mine yet. Well, mine's in the back of the truck. still. Oh, well then we're still the same. So we both were talking and decided that there was a game that we both have had before, at least in our homes, and that we kind of missed it. And I think coming off the heels of Guns and Roses coming out, that we both decided to go ahead and buy a Wonka CE. Oh yeah! Why did we go CE again? Because it's the only one you can get. It's the only one left.
    5:18
    Ain't it? This is the prettiest of the bunch. It is. I've actually owned a CE where I think you only had the LE, correct? Correct. I'll be completely honest. I bought my CE in the beginning of 2020, right before COVID, and then COVID hit, and it looked like the world was going to come to an end, and we were all going to be trading rocks as currency. So I kind of panicked and said, you know, this is a big number of games sitting here, and maybe let me sell this off before the box. I do remember that. The bottom drops out of the pinball market. Little did I know a year later where everything is literally skyrocketing. $800 games are selling for $2,000, and it just keeps going up. I'm still looking forward to it. I would like to sit that next to a GNR CE and have that as a nice little duo for my JJP collection. That would be a lot of fun. We both should be able to accomplish that very soon, I would think.
    6:14
    I know, JoJo. What's your nickname? Does anybody call you JoJo? No. My son is also, my son is Joe Jr., and my grandkids call him Uncle JoJo. But no, nobody calls me JoJo but you. Okay. What about Joey? Joey would have been my family as I was growing up, but then when Junior was born, I kind of lost the Joey, and he picked it up. It feels like a Philly, New Jersey kind of name. Joey. Yeah, it's not very original, I can tell you that. That's not like any of the new age names we're going with these days. That's true. You've never heard of that? Hey, Joey, I'm just busting your balls over here. Come on, Joey.
    6:55
    Yeah, there is a little bit of Philadelphia. I was born in Philadelphia, so I had a little bit of that motif going. We're close to New York, obviously.
    7:03
    There is Italian heritage in my family. Oh, is there? Yeah, absolutely. I'm a mixed mutt of everything. Salty, salty. So mostly it's just Fox or Foxy or Joe. I still have that stupid-ass song stuck in my head. My dino box singing. Mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah, mwah. Oh, so horrible. See, I'll just sing this episode. You don't have to. We don't have to worry about Dennis and Sofie singing. Yeah, but Dennis only gets aroused whenever I sing. I'm not sure I'd put it in that same category, but okay. If he's wanting to have a big lift this week, I better start singing. Speaking of singing, Joe Fox, we have a code update in Led Zeppelin. Among other news, let's kick it over to our correspondents and see what they've drummed up so that we have something to talk about. It's time for TPN Industry News.
    7:53
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. Jersey Jack recently posted a lineup of new Guns N' Roses pinball machines that are even more exclusive than the collector's edition that's currently on the line. Only seven of the team edition game are being produced, and these go to members of the band, including Duff, Dizzy, Melissa, Axel, and Slash. Each game features a badge at the top of the head that says GNR Game Team Edition and the name of the band member. These are, of course, collector's edition machines and are sure to be the rarest of them all. Pinball photography has recently become a niche among photographers and Charles Acosta of Pinball Photos LLC recently highlighted his experience with Jersey Jack Pinball as helping him launch a photo revolution. He's worked with Jersey Jack to create vibrant and arresting photos for Pirates of the Caribbean and Guns N' Roses.
    8:54
    He was quoted as saying, Without the help of Jersey Jack Pinball, this never would have become a reality. This is a company that recognizes innovation and supports talent. my images are pieces of art that have now graced several publications such as Forbes, Kerrang! and Louder. You can see his work on pinballphotos.com with a beautiful array of Guns N' Roses playfield photos. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg.
    9:22
    Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball Update. Sophia Ryan has been hired as a new Senior Mechanical Engineer. she has been involved in many games in the 90s for Williams and was awarded patents and mechs in games like Dracula, Doctor Who and Zack's favorite Popeye. The team at American Pinball is proud to have her leading the mechanical engineering team and I'm excited to see what games she's going to be working on. Also there's an additional code update that was released for Houdini version 21.01.21 I hope everybody has a great week has fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show This is Brian Cosner.
    10:28
    safe around here texting and driving and people so i figured i'd rather live a couple more years and still kind of like a quasi fun ride you take the top off and you're sort of like you're on a motorcycle but not really so that was my reason you're gonna take your top off for me i got you on video here on sky it's off already don't you can't tell now it's a awfully pale shirt i thought you were wearing yeah there's just no sun yeah what a nipple hair stern pinball's got new code update for Led Zeppelin version 0.93. We still got a ways to go on this game, Joe. Have you played Led Zeppelin yet? No, but is this the code update that adds a ramp? Oh, I... Okay. No, I don't think you're going to get a ramp on the pro. You already got three? How many do you want? Shit. You want four? Oh, no. This is a Keith Elwin game? No, I have not had the opportunity to play Led Zeppelin. Nobody around here, including myself, ordered one.
    11:25
    Watched a couple of the streams. Okay. Not a huge Led Zeppelin fan on top of it. What? No. You don't like Led Zeppelin music?
    11:34
    No, I don't dislike it. It's just not top of my iPod list. It's no Four Non Blondes. It's no... Listen, none of the music that I enjoy the most would ever make a good pinball machine. I'm a huge Billy Joel fan. I'm a huge Elton John fan. and I just don't see them ever hitting a pinball machine theme. Hmm. Okay. And so I cry sometimes when I'm lying in bed just to get a little what is in my head and I, I'm feeling a little peculiar.
    12:16
    You're going to have to give me a minute to buy a new pair of headphones. Mine just blew out. So I wake in the morning and I step outside. I like that song. I used to like that song You guys heard it here He likes What's Up by Four Non Blondes More so than the Led Zeppelin song And I said Yeah Sorry I start to Understand Dennis more and more You're hard now too? No just kidding This latest update By Stern Pinball was a pretty hefty one had some nice lighting enhancements on Led Zeppelin. Tweaking and balancing of the code was nice. Even the mode itself, modes in the song modes, the rules there, they've tweaked. They even added a wizard mode. The best thing I can say with this Led Zeppelin, which is part of what happened this week with them announcing that new lighting package that you can buy outside of the premium LE. I think that's the best part about that game is how cool that thing looks. Now, I did have Greg Bone. I had him play some Led Zeppelin the first time. He's played it. He came away mixed like many people, but he said one thing that he wasn't prepared for, even without this enhancement lighting, he said it looks good. It's lit good. The colors are nice on it. He was very surprised that in person he just said, it actually looks pretty damn good. Yeah, I don't think from a looks perspective, the game doesn't turn me off that way. Even the LE with that art package, even the blue powder coat, I don't mind the art on that as well. I don't mind that quote-unquote Wonder Bread pro looking, you know, whatever people want to joke with that. I actually like all the art packages. To me, it just feels like there's not a lot there, especially in the pro. Oh, yeah. Yeah, in the pro. I get that. I'm waiting to rip that premium LE spinner that comes out of the play field. But, yeah, he liked the way it shot. He was itching to play it some more. He said it's a Ritchie, so it's just damn fun to shoot. Yeah, you're never going to get a bad Steve Ritchie shooting game. The problem is our expectations in today's world for everything, let alone pinball, are so high that nothing could probably actually satisfy us as a society. You're not wrong. With a Led Zeppelin code update, they added the Wizard Mode top of the charts, multi-bowl. And looking at the rules, Joe, it felt a little bit like Encore of ACDC. Okay. Maybe I don't have enough time yet reading this or enough time on ACDC. It just felt encore-ish where you're trying to complete the actual songs, and if you don't complete them when you get to encore, it will give you a chance to complete them before moving to the next part of that multi-bowl. I think encore is a hair. Similar. I wouldn't know. I don't get to any wizard modes unless I take the glass off and use my finger. Stop. I know you're a good player. Good is a relative term, but thank you. And they also added, because all certain machines have to have challenge modes now, and spoil it for everybody, you get to go straight to that top-of-the-charts multi-ball challenge mode, I guess, at the end of the game. Yeah, but that's not ruining it. I know. Because that's not the actual wizard mode. They're little fun modes that, like, Dwight started with Ghostbusters and then, you know, Keith did with Jurassic Park. And I actually enjoy them as a little fun challenge type of game, and it's not the true wizard mode. So you're not ruining anything. Hmm. In my opinion. Yeah. Partake. Nobody's forced to play it, so I'm okay with it. If people want to spoil it for themselves, that's fine. I like to foreplay a little bit myself. I like to earn my pleasure, Joe. That's all. Hey, as you get older, you realize it's not that important. That's right. Just get in there and get out. Just getting in is the best part.
    16:11
    And you're right. They did announce pricing and a timeline for the enhancement lighting system for your Led Zeppelin Pro. trim level pinball machine. So what is your opinion on the pricing? Because I have mine. Well, it's coming out in March. Get your pre-order in now. Buy, buy, buy. And they're $449.99. My thought is, I always ask myself, is it worth it? And the answer is always no for toppers or any of this stuff. It's never worth it. Value-wise.
    16:42
    If I had a pro, would I have it on my game? I'm not even sure it's 99%. It's 100%. I have to have it on my game. It changes the entire atmosphere based on the video that I've seen, and it changes the feel of that game and the experience. So it's like the UV reactive lighting system for Stranger Things. You cannot experience that game, in my opinion, to the same degree, and that's a significant difference, without that UV package. So same thing here. So $449, okay. But it gives you as much flash, razzle-dazzle as a topper does, and it's cheaper than a topper, so it makes sense. All right, so my opinion is, not that you're asking me, but I'm going to offer it anyway. My opinion is that I'm a big proponent of lighting in pinball machines. I think that all of them across the board. I like lights. Maybe it's my sensitive, beautiful eyes. Maybe it's, you know, who knows. To me, I'm a guy, and I'll be the flexer this week. I'm the guy who has pinned stadiums in almost every game that he owns. I think it's a good idea. Scott makes a great product. And if you look at the run of the mill, meaning the original Penn Stadiums, they're $280 plus shipping. Yep. And they don't integrate into the game.
    17:58
    They'll react with the flashers or whatever you have them hooked up to. But now you have a product that's going to be, number one, your art plays, which usually run $80 to begin with. and, like a Penn Stadium, will add lighting to the game and will be synchronized or coded into the game. Yes.
    18:16
    If I compare it to what else is on the market, $450 is not that big of a swing. Sure. I still think you're going to get the same people arguing about this price. They're the same ones that argue about Penn Stadiums, too, though. And they're the same ones that argue that pinball shouldn't cost $1.50 from wherever they're buying them from. Yeah, absolutely. And their name is Bruce Nightingale, and he likes incandescent bulbs in his machines. There's those people. Yes. Love you, Bruce. Still wrong about upper play fields. Nobody called that out. Bruce Nightingale comes on. I had a couple messages. Oh, man, he really owns you. I'm like, y'all listen to something different than what I listen to? I was running circles around, Brucey baby.
    19:02
    Upper play field. You have one-way ears. That's why. Yeah, upper play fields. I think I nailed that. I'm not an upper play field guy. No, but the definition is pretty objective, I would think. So that's Stern Pinball. Oh, that's right, the argument between what was an upper play field. Yeah, he said Medusa had an upper, what? Medusa with an upper, no, Bruce, it's not an upper play field. Upper play field does not indicate top of play field. No, upper play field has to have some sort of incline that comes off of the main playfield that needs a ramp or a Vuck to kick it up there or a habit trail or whatever you want to call it to get it to that next level. It goes up on the Z axis, not the X or Y. Z axis goes up. Yep. Grand Lizard has an upper playfield. Flash Gordon has an upper playfield. Black Knight has an upper playfield. But where I get picky is I call it a split playfield if you're not utilizing any space under that upper playfield. There's then a split playfield. Well, now you're just adding a third category just to be special. No, there's a considerable difference.
    20:09
    Because it's still the same surface area. The play field is the same. It cannot be an upper play field. Upper indicates an additional square footage or square inchage, if you will.
    20:20
    So, no. So, Game of Thrones Premium in LE has an upper play field or no? That does because it's taking up additional square inchage. So, then what? You're getting more space to play. whereas some of your early split level games they'll give you ramps like a Flash Gordon to get up there but it's still the square inch area that a regular typical play field would be thus not making it an upper play field I think I'm right okay I'm pretty sure I'm right you know what the best part about pinball is it's subjective let me get Roger Sharpe this ain't subjective hey listen I'm trying to be Switzerland here. I know you are. I'll call Roger Sharp and see what he thinks about split versus upper play field. Oh, speaking of Roger Sharp, he joined the Saps, the super awesome pinball show, this last week. I saw that pop into my podcatcher on Friday, and I just haven't had a chance to finish it. It is a really good one. The guys over there, they do a good interview. They really do. You guys will have to go listen to that, follow, subscribe, and all that jazz, too. But Roger Sharp was on the super awesome pinball show this last week. I've got to tell you, Roger Sharp makes his rounds, but damn it if I don't love every time I hear that man. What is it about him? I was going to say the same thing. There can't be a bad Roger Sharp interview. Why do I get tired of it? Literally everyone I've heard. No, never. You could tell me you have him on your show every week. He's got that many stories.
    21:52
    He's just that captivating that I could listen to him day in and day out. He is a salesman, though, so I guess he's doing his job. He talked about a lot of stuff on the Super Awesome Pinball Show. I would want you guys, for more details, go listen to the show. But some of the stuff that we're going to cover here on the Pinball Show include licensing. He talked a lot about licensing, as that's his job. And he talked about these standards usually being a three-year agreement with these license holders. Sometimes five, but typically a three-year agreement is a standard protocol. And he said there are extensions that can then be based on the success of a product as well. So pretty typical stuff there. Three year agreements. So when we see Stern or Jersey Jack or anybody pick up these, the majority of the time they're probably going to be three year agreements. So you're going to see them running that title for three years. Unless it's just not selling, they could discontinue it. Unless it's selling like gangbusters and they might extend it. They do a vault, they may extend it, etc. I think Chris and Christian are doing an excellent job in getting good people on there. And really, like you said, they're great interviewers. Absolutely. They're talking about payment.
    23:01
    How does one go about paying for it? When do you pay for these licenses? And Roger Sharp said typically the payment on the contract signing is up front. You pay part of it up front. Then you're going to accrue some royalties over time. and they can begin on each product or based on guarantees you make what your estimated production numbers are, etc. So they might start once you once you reach that guarantee. And he said there's many ways to do it. I just love talking about the sales, marketing of and licensing of pinball machines. I guess that's why I'm in the industry. Yeah, I've always been I've always been super curious to that. Is it is it a flat fee? Is it a per-game sold type of idea, which we know Stern doesn't release their game numbers, but I guess they'd have to release it to license holders. Just always curious how that runs. And the next thing that he said was a quote, and this is a big one.
    23:58
    Roger Sharp on the Super Awesome Pinball Show said quote I know that Joe going to get Harry Potter It going to be great End quote Now that Joe he referring to is not Joe Fox It's Joe Keenan. It's me. I'm getting it. You're getting it. He knew I'd buy a CE of that or an LE. You're a flexer, aren't you?
    24:17
    Not anymore. We can tell that story. Oh, that is right. We will get into that. But you just bought a CE. You're kind of contradicting that all. I don't put JGP in the same category.
    24:30
    Nobody puts Stern in the corner. So Joe Kamenkal apparently is going to get Harry Potter license for pinball based on the statement from Roger Sharp.
    24:42
    This isn't a big surprise, is it, Foxy? No, I think they've been talking about this, and Joe Kamenkal has dropped this in a couple different interviews in one way or another over the last, I don't know, six months to a year. We know that Franchi's not the best at keeping secrets. Gotta love the guy. He's just not the best at keeping secrets. And he's been kind of teasing this relationship between Cam and Cal and the property holders on Harry Potter. Now, Franchi, I found this interesting. So you've got – I'm kind of reading into this interpretively because I know just based on my presence in the industry, Fox, I know how these Your presence in the industry I know some stuff And I can tell you The behavioral pattern From previous releases And prior to that The speculation about those Possible releases This is feeling very much like This thing has already been hammered out Joe Kamenkow And Roger Sharper Both attain licenses and they're the big heavy hitters. So when Roger Sharp comes on, when he talks about, oh, I know that Joe's going to get Harry Potter, he talks about some concerns that he would have chasing big licenses, just saying that you get them. Again, if I'm reading into it, and I think I'm accurate here, I'm thinking he's having some type of, whether it's conscious or subconscious, justification for not attaining Harry Potter himself and Kamikau getting that. So it's almost like a foregone thing that it's already kind of in the works, in my opinion. Roger Sharp talked about when it comes to these big licenses, he's just more interested in how the licensor is being represented, how the assets are being brought to that said product. So if I'm reading into it more, it feels like Roger Sharp has some concerns with Harry Potter as a license for pinball and what we can really get out of that property holder. Well, I would think I'd share. Let me rephrase that. What would be your thought process on, we can assume that if Joe's involved with the licensing of it, we'd have to assume that it's a Stern product in some way, whether it's a Capow title with Stern or whether it's Stern by themselves and Joe's helping him. Sure. Do you have a concern of a Stern Harry Potter versus a spooky Harry Potter or a JJP Harry Potter or even American, like no matter who the manufacturer is, Do we have a concern that we're not going to get the assets that we'd all want to make that a huge game? I think it's a really good question. Each one of them offers different flavors. I can almost visualize what each of those companies would do to the Harry Potter license. And the question being, am I concerned with Stern getting it or a Kapow? Not at all. Zero concern. I think when that gets brought up, I think everyone's go-to low-hanging fruit is Star Wars. And I don't think this or any other license can be put into the same category as a Star Wars. I just think that that is so more restricted by the license or that you can't just say, oh, well, look what they did with Star Wars. So Harry Potter is just going to have Hogwarts in the back like Elvira, you know, the castle, and that'll be the end of it. I don't know you could say that.
    28:08
    Possibly. He was talking about, Roger Sharp was talking about Star Wars, and there's been many Star Wars iterations throughout pinball. And he said, you know, he spoke as if he knew a little bit about this Harry Potter license. He said, you know, Star Wars wasn't as absorbent as Harry Potter would be. So he's thinking Harry Potter holds even a bigger licensing hurdle than even Star Wars or would be more pricey. I could see either of those being the case Roger said that you can get people to pony up for a license People will come off their license for money But are they going to dance? Are they really going to give you the assets that you want? That's his big concern here with not only Harry Potter But some of these big licenses that people want I like that even Franchi And again, if I'm reading into it Franchi using a hypothetical of well, Roger, what if Harry Potter cost $2 million as the license? Would people pay more for it, or what would happen? And maybe Franchi doesn't know anything. Well, only time will tell what comes of all of this, but it sounds like it's going to happen. Well, if the rumors were true that the Beatles was a million-dollar license, and this being double that, It could be just speculation or it could be hypothetical, whatever you want to call it.
    29:36
    Does that mean – so you have two ways of thinking of this. You make this a $20,000 game, right, because you have to pay so much for the license, but then you're obviously not going to sell as many. Or you make it an affordable game, but you can sell five times that amount because you have – Harry Potter reaches well more than even Star Wars does because Star Wars is still, I would believe, is an older generation. theme versus Harry Potter is still relevant today. I mean, even though they haven't made a movie in whatever it's been four or five years, I still think there's more relevance in the younger crowd pushing their parents to get it, you know, all the way down the line. I think that license holds greater than a Star Wars, which was probably looked at before now as being the greatest license to get. And I think so. I think you're right. I think the biggest factor there would be that there have been Star Wars pinball iterations before. You've got the non-pinball person that wants a Star Wars-based pinball machine. They've got all kinds of opportunities to buy the pin, buy the Data East. Maybe they go with the Sega. Maybe they go with the Stern Pro. So they have all kinds of options, whereas there hasn't been anything for Harry Potter. There's been nothing. Now, you've got to be careful, though, because Roger Sharp and the group of the guys over there were talking about stranger things. Dynamite license, but maybe didn't reach the demographic that was going to be purchasing pinball machines. So he said that's really important when bringing an intellectual property to a pinball license in a pinball market. I think Harry Potter surpasses that, though. I still think it gets into that world of everybody paying for it, but only time will tell. But back to your original question, Joe. Stern Pinball, if I want the best shooting Harry Potter, I'm happy that I got a Stern Harry Potter. If I want maybe some of the most well-integrated Harry Potter, then I'm looking forward to a Jersey Jack Harry Potter. If I want a damn well-built machine, then I know that what's tried and true at Chicago Gaming Company doing Harry Potter would be great. But I think these are moot points because it looks like it's coming to Stern. It looks like it's going to Kapow. Kapow is definitely going to be tagged all over this thing. This isn't going to be a help kind of thing. This would be a Kapow license and a Kapow title. Roger Sharp was talking about even he was like okay so you're able to say Chris you're paying your two million dollars for that license then you're going to pay another two hundred thousand five hundred thousand just to get this kind of thing to market you're adding that in then you're building parts he said it just it's tough well the other part is you know getting the license from J.K. Rowling is one thing but if you're then trying to bring in the characters now you've got to go after the and I don't remember all their names You know, Harry Potter and Ron Weasley. And, yeah, all these people as actors, now they all have their own little gigs. And you can't, you know, what are you going to do, spend $10 million between all characters to have them in there? So it's a rock and a hard place situation. Everybody wants Harry Potter because they just want Harry Potter. And guess what? So would I. Yeah, me too. But it's not going to come. In the day and age that we live in with licensing and the way these actors all have their separate contracts, I don't know how you're ever going to do that.
    32:59
    Is that your girl calling? No, it was my alarm. Is that wifey? Nope, my alarm. I set an alarm to run this other thing on Facebook, and I wanted to remind myself. Listener, it just felt to me like Roger Sharp was concerned with the amount you're going to get because he even talked about if he's doing a license, he's big on getting the assets. He was basically mimicking the whole Dave Fix preach the other week, saying that he doesn't like the whole just brand slapping, slap a brand on something and sell it as it is. He said that Harry Potter will happen. It will be pricey. And then he talked about, quote, we get it out of the way. He wants to just get it out of the way as this grail pen so that we don't have to hear about it anymore. And I could imagine as a licensor that's all you. He probably hears about that as much as I hear, hey, Zach, where's my Guns N' Roses? All right? you know here's the problem though if like i said earlier expectations the way we as a society become disappointed is because our expectations are set wrong there is no game that is going to come out that is not going to get bashed by the by the the ones carrying the pitchfork in this hobby because there is nothing that's going to be able to to come up to the expectations that we would have for a harry potter game especially with the costs that are going to be associated with it They're better off, in my opinion, of not making it. Oh, really? Yeah, because you're going to be damned if you do and damned if you don't. You're going to have the loyalists. Not the loyalists. You're going to have the people that are reasonable in this hobby that goes, hey, cool, we got a Harry Potter-themed game. But you're going to have the majority that's going to say, oh, I can't believe they don't even have Harry Potter in it. They don't have, you know, Hermione in it. They don't have whoever. They fucked it up!
    34:51
    Exactly. So you're never going to be able to do this licensed service. God, Gary Stern is Voldemort. Not in a platform that you have for a pinball machine with the dimensions of what they are. Oh, maybe another dimension.
    35:07
    The fifth element. Franchi said if he was doing consultation, he would suggest that they do three iterations of a Harry Potter. Get the license, one year, the first year, cover the first two films, second year, cover the next two films or three films, and do it that way. Yeah, I've heard. There's never been anything like that where you get iterations of different movies. I've never seen that. I don't think that would ever happen. I'm not saying I wouldn't really like that, to have a trio lineup of the entire saga, But I don't see that happening. I think you cut your sales off at that point because most people are not going to own all three. They just want one of them, and then it gets messy. Yeah, I mean, it's one thing to do Pirates of the Caribbean in 2006 and then Jersey Jack to come back and, you know, what, 12, 13 years later and do another one based on the same theme. But to have a series of games that's going to come out at, you have to imagine, $10,000, $12,000, $15,000 times three, I think that's not even realistic. I've heard that before, and actually I don't think it's a bad idea. I just don't know that it's feasible.
    36:26
    Do you think if they ever did a Harry Potter license, they would just have the world of Harry Potter? You don't get any storylines. You don't really get a lot of assets. You're a young wizard in Hogwarts trying to make their way. This is not the answer to your question, But wasn't there either a pinball FX or one of these virtual tables that was a Harry Potter? I didn't see it. How did they do it? Did they do like a world of Harry Potter? Did they actually do Harry Potter running a storyline? No, they did the main films. That was very successful, and it looked damn good. It looked so good. Well, it's just a lot easier to do anything on a computer than it would be in actual manufacturing. But even the assets that they utilized and coded from the films and stuff, it was very nicely done. So I would like to see something like that. I don't know what you do. Is there like nine films? I don't know how you – Yeah, there's a ton.
    37:17
    That's hard. That's really, really hard. That's why I said the dimensions that you're restricted to. The box is only so big. The play field has its measurements. It can only hold so much. You can't put a lower play field, an upper play field, a lower, lower play field, an upper, upper play field. It only has so much restriction. I think that if you have a Lyman Sheets coding something like this or a Keith Johnson, I think you can reach – Look at The Hobbit. The Hobbit covered 31 modes. Now, you can't tell me, Joe, that give yourself 25 to 30 different modes. Look at Guns N' Roses, 20-plus modes. Then Wizard modes. You do something like that to cover all the main features of those nine said films? I think that can be done. One or two really cool toys. That's the huge advantage to the LCD screen, upgrading from a DMD, is the ability to change the game with code and with visual effects that you cannot get from a DMD. A DMD has to rely more on the mechs and the gameplay itself, whereas the LCD can give you a different interpretation of the game by what's on the screen, even though you're not paying attention to it that much because you're looking at the play field.
    38:33
    And lighting. Coding, lighting. yeah look at look at gnr that doesn't have that's gnr that's a game some of the 90s games yep there it's the atmosphere that it brings to you versus the actual gameplay in some way so you have to do uh probably like you said a world of harry potter versus harry potter and a chamber of secrets harry potter and the deathly hallows i don't know all the names but that would be a that would be very disappointing to me if we had that jurassic park feel again with no nod to what everybody loves, and that's the films. I know everybody loves the books. They have to integrate the film. They have to do it like The Hobbit, where you have the actual film scenes, or like Guardians of the Galaxy, where you have to have it. You can't do a hand-drawn, but hand-cartooned type of version, like Jurassic Park. People think you can, though, Joe, because they say all the books are where it's at. Do the books, the interpretation of the books. That's good enough. It's going to be cheaper. and to me, they're like, we don't want that stale crap like Guardians of the Galaxy. I, on the other hand, say, yes, we do. I will take that. I will take that all day over a Jurassic Park world field. I saw the movies versus read the books. Especially when there's so many. It's so hard because so many people have read. It's like the Bible. Have you read the books? I don't read.
    39:54
    Exactly. I don't read either. I haven't read the books, but I've saw every single movie and saw most of them in the movie theaters. Sure. But you're a Danny Radcliffe fan.
    40:05
    Is that his name? There you go, Harry Potter. Did you see his naked Broadway thing too right after Harry Potter? Weirdo. Thanks. There's a lot of references to you and naked men. I'm not sure how much more comfortable I'm going to be here. Joe Fox, turn me on. What can I say? It's out there. It is what it is. So, yeah, so Roger Sharp was talking about let's get this out of the way, which again makes me think it's already a foregone conclusion that it's happening too. He just didn't get it. He's wanting to get through this. And he said, quote, now we can all turn our attention to James Bond. And then they all giggled. But I assure you guys, just wait. Just wait. Was that a little drop in? Was that an oops, I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry? No, I think they were, I think he was trying to say like, oh, that's Harry Potter's the grill now. Once we get through that, then everybody's going to want a James Bond. Once we get through that, everybody's. But I think there's relevance to why he said James Bond. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, that's why I said, oops, I'm sorry, not sorry. Oh, he talked about being disappointed about the fragmentation of the pinball industry, about licensing just creating this big barrier to entry for some of these companies. He said, look, now we've gone, we've kind of cannibalized ourselves like the film industry did, and it's licensed property or bust. You can't really sell non-licensed property and expect to sell units, period, dot. And I completely agree, continue to agree with him. Last detail, and then we'll move on. Roger Sharp dropped the bomb and said, look, Sigourney Weaver for Alien, the Alien pin with Highway Pinball, she's totally available. They just didn't want her. I don't understand. It makes zero sense. He said they didn't even have any costs associated with her. It wouldn't even have cost anything more. That is literally the most illogical thing I have ever heard in my life, let alone in this pinball industry. You're going to do a game where only, she's the only person people recognize with that movie. Yeah, have Wizard of Oz doubt Dorothy, idiots. Like, what the hell? Oh, but Dorothy was available. Why didn't you put her in? Ah, we didn't want to. Eh. What? Not much of a Garland fan. She's a little drama. A little diva there. I don't, for the life of me, I don't understand that. And that's one of the biggest downsides to that licensed pen.
    42:21
    No Sigourney Weaver. That's been the criticism since day one, and now you finally hear after all these years that she was completely available and it didn't cost any more. And you go, no thanks. So for a recap on the Roger Sharp stuff, go listen to the super awesome pinball show. They've poked fun and said that other people just report on their big exclusive news. And you know what, guys? You're right. Absolutely. Just interpret it better. That's all.
    42:47
    We make your info entertaining. What's going on with American pinball? Oh, Dave Fix. the lovable Dave Fix. Here comes Dave.
    42:59
    I'm not sure this mentality of certain people that want to come out and seem to come off as being super brash.
    43:09
    Big chested. Yeah, when they don't have anything to quote unquote back it up or they haven't done anything. You haven't done anything. Like, I get Dave. He wants to come off. He wants to be impressive. He wants people to know that he's serious and what they're doing here now. And I get that. But to me, he came off as pompous.
    43:33
    And I've never met the guy. I'm sure he's an awesome dude. He's not. I'll just tell you. He just came off in that interview acting like he was the Lyman Sheets or the Keith Elwin of American Pinball. Mm-hmm. and to me it just pushed me away. You have to realize you're taking a position to try to recover for a company that has pretty much three flops in a row. I mean, I owned all three of them, and they were decent gains, but they didn't have the longevity, and we definitely know that they didn't sell the numbers, and I think you're trying to attract people back, or you want to try to attract people back, that you realize, hey, there's a new guy in town. We're going to do things better, do things smarter. But did it come off as pushing people away? I don't know. I think it pushed off more people than it brought in. Now, he did, to be fair, on the Super Awesome Pinball Show, they're passing along to their audience Dave Fix apologizing to the pinball media and podcasters out there. He wanted to express that. He said it came across as him speaking to a number of podcasters. He just met one individual, and he referenced a man, a male. So he's talking about Canadian. Listen, we know who he's talking about, and I don't even know if that's fair for him. No, I don't get it either. I thought for first, I was like, hopefully he's not talking about me. Every time a new game comes out, all you have is your opinion based on what you're seeing. When Stern puts up their little promo video, what else are you supposed to do? just say no comment? He knows it's bullshit. He just doesn't like Canada. That's all that was. But what he said was not the way he said it was not geared towards just one person in my opinion. It was geared towards he was chesty. He was being chesty at that time. He went with whatever was flowing. Was he flexing? Chest flexing, yeah. Chest flexer.
    45:38
    I bet he's got one of those shake weights under his bed. I got one of those. Please tell me you do. I do. I don't know where it's at. It used to be in the office I'm sitting at right now. I don't know what my wife did with it, but I had one. Oh, man, Joe Fox. You should have never told me that. Hey, you know what? I buy into all these crazes like everybody else. Please tell me you have two of them, like you're going skiing. Hey, I only have one of those, if you know what I mean. Asap said that Dayfix does stand behind his criticisms that he had towards their products, though, and said that all those issues have been fixed. Well, that part I liked. That part, to me, is you can be critical of your own product and realize you need changes, and that's what you're there for. And that you can be pompous about by saying that you need to make changes inside of your own industry. They haven't been fixed. The shit on the Oktoberfest, to my recollection, they haven't fixed that. The shit on the shape of the heads on those games, on all three of them, to my recollection. I think he means that they're going forward. They have a new sheriff in town type of idea, and they're going to change things to your next game, whatever that may be. is not going to come out with that cabinet. Still selling those titles. I was going to email the other day. Well, they can't throw them in the trash and burn them.
    46:47
    Okay. I got a call the other day or a message the other day asking about, hey, what are we looking like on Hot Wheels this year? Well, it would be a hell of a lot easier if the person running all this shit wasn't down talking or talking down. That's my point. I got you. You're talking about it from a distributor and trying to sell the game standpoint is. Yeah, from a dealer standpoint, I guess so. but yeah, from a dealer standpoint, I completely agree. You're trying to sell a game. You may have two or three of them sitting in your inventory and you want to move them. And here's the guy who's the, now the figurehead of this company, this person saying our games suck until, until I got here. Oh, well that's an easy sell for me. Thanks Dave. From an integrity standpoint, I respect it. I respect him being like you were saying, critical about some of the, some of the maybe not so loved portions of some of their products. I get that. Having said that, If I'm in his position, I simply don't do that. And it's my job not to do that, in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong. I could be wrong. No, it's a tough thing. Are you trying to, the people that are critical of you, the ones actually spending the money, and who are you trying to satisfy? It's tough when you're in sales and you're trying to sell your product and you know there should have been issues in the past If I playing devil advocate if you trying to satisfy your customers what is the output objectively speaking on how to measure that Sales Exactly
    48:12
    Does Stern Pinball talk about how shitty their artwork is on games or how it doesn't work or how they don't have a part? No. They're doing pretty good. But they have 90% market share. They're doing pretty well. How is American Pinball doing with sales of all this, you know. Now, do you think this transparency that he's putting out there is really helping sales, which is the measured output now? That's my point. No. Oh, I agree with you. I'm just saying from his standpoint, it's tough for him when the masses are so critical, it's tough for who to satisfy. Do I satisfy the distributors who are only selling my product or do I satisfy the customers who are the ones calling the distributors to buy the product? His customers are the distributors, I would argue. You have a very good point there, too, because you're the one out there when somebody walks in your showroom and says, I don't really know what I want. You've got to come over here and sell their product for them. Yeah, who's paying for those machines to American Pinball? You are. It's not the end user. No. It's not the end user. One of the good things that did come out of this week, I was excited about this announcement this morning here. American Pinball is proud to announce their newest senior mechanical engineer, Zofia Ryan. Zofia Bo' Brian. Zofia has been a mechanical design engineer for more than 30 years and has achieved valuable experience in design and blah, blah, blah. So she's coming over from Williams Valley Midway back in the day and has some really successful patents. Joe, you and I were reviewing this prior to the show. Some pretty complex mechanisms that she has helped create and patent, including the roulette scoring device on Popeye, the magnetic ball carrier for Dracula, the missed multiball, That's awesome. The Doctor Who multi-level play feature, that's badass. The rotating head on the machine, these are really cool complex machines. She's also been attributed to working on games like Pool Sharks, The Machine, Bride of Pinbot, Doctor Who, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Popeye, Dirty Harry, Whodunit, Tic-Tac-Toe, Junkyard. Wow. This is a good ad. I'd never heard of her, and I said to you when we were talking earlier when you went through this list, I'm like, Those are some of the coolest mechs in games that have been done over the years that really haven't been replicated. And I don't think it's because they're not good. I think because maybe the expense of them is what has led them to be taken. I mean, that Doctor Who Rising, was it the Dalek? I'm not a big Doctor Who fan. I've played it, but I don't know what the names are. That thing is cool. I mean, aside from getting your finger chopped off if you're not careful. Yeah, that is very complex. Very cool. It seems like Zofia, she's not just a, eh, we'll create a basic mechanism here. You can go in for the gold on all this stuff. Even, like, people shit on Popeye. There's some pretty complex things in there.
    51:06
    People talk about Miss Multi-Bowl. That's legendary. And that hadn't been done before. Using a magnet to travel a bowl across the play field? Yeah, the only thing I can think that comes close to that was the KISS Premium LE, where the ball is dancing across the stage type of idea. Great effect, too. Yeah, absolutely. And it's great for that game. It makes complete sense. But I don't think we've seen another game where a magnet makes it dance across the play field. Certainly very cool. Whodunit was full of different little things, the slot machine and whatnot. So I think this is, even Junkyard. Yeah, Junkyard's got a couple of different cool little things that hadn't been done then and haven't been done since type of idea. I think Zofia is going to bring some quirk and complexity to American pinball. And you know what? That's nicely done. I give an applause to that one. Plus, we all talk about diversifying pinball and getting more women and people of color into pinball. A plus here. And, you know, just based on history and what we've been through in the past, maybe that's why we haven't heard from her as much.
    52:14
    I'm not saying that to be the case, but it could be. She's a female. 90s, Bally Williams. Who knows? We know that pinball's had a history. So congratulations. Yeah, I think it's a big upgrade for them on that side of it as well. And that's one of the things I had. I did talk to Joe Balser this week. Called me. I love Joe. Joe did want to, I'll put this in there. I think you'd be okay with me saying it. I was talking with Joey B. And he was like, we were just talking about just life in general and pinball and what he's been up to. But he said he was surprised to hear Dave Fix and American Pinball indicate that he was a contract designer. How about that, Joe? Yeah, it's surprising to me. I mean, I kind of thought they were just out. Yeah, he was like, well, it's not that there's bad blood. You know, maybe I do some contract work with him in the future. But he said, I don't have a contract with him. So he was like, and I felt bad for the guy. He's like, now other manufacturers probably think I'm locked in with these. That's just not the case. And I'm like, oh, that's a good point. Definitely very conflicting stories from both sides, that's for sure. Yeah. So he's like, no, I don't have a contract with them.
    53:30
    They're going in a direction that's different than what I was going in with them. And he's open for opportunities elsewhere. So I thought, well, shit, good for you, Balser. I would love to see Balser. Yeah, I think Balser could do design work, of course. He's proven that over the decades of work. But I could see Joey B doing consultation, doing operations management. I could see him helping some of these design teams, almost like a George Gomez-like mentor to some of these younger designers or younger engineers or younger just manufacturing. I can see him walking that line, Fox, with all the knowledge and experience he has, saying, hey, guys, this is going to be an issue here, like setting up production lines. I think that would be a good spot for him. Yeah, I definitely think Joe Bosser, how do I want to put this? I want to say he gets a bad rap because I think his designs have been some of the most interesting.
    54:29
    And talk about a guy that can go from 180 degrees on his designs. He could do something like Baywatch and then come around and do something like Wizard of... I mean, they seem to be so much different than the last. He is a designer of variety.
    54:44
    Absolutely. Guys have their signatures and they stated their signatures, but definitely not in this standpoint. He reminds me of Dennis Nordman. Some variety there with Nordman, too. Yeah, absolutely. I don't think it's a stretch that they went with Nordman now. but I was just talking to Joe and stress free right now so he's loving life but I'd like to see Joe end up somewhere. He'll be chomping at the bit before we know it.
    55:11
    Speaking of Jersey Jack Pinball and Wizard of Oz, did you know Eric Menier had a birthday this last weekend? I did. I heard that or I read that. I think I read it. The young guy's probably like 25 or something. Who knows? He's a baby. Just like you. I'm just a little baby. My little Eric. Put him in my other shirt pocket. little dennis and a little eric yes you designed me a little pirates game yeah little guns and well that's good job no offense to dennis but if there's a fight that breaks that i'll put my money on eric the men years are kind of tough yeah they're a uh they're a tough breed over there absolutely yeah and he was also he went on the loser kid pinball podcast go listen to that podcast for an interview with eric menier that was a lot of fun as well he talked about jjp in an interview said that they had 70 employees and he felt a responsibility at times in in design and in making sure he represents the ip to the best of his ability so much so that it keeps people employed too he wants to be able to sell games so he's really going for what that enthusiast is looking for in their pinball machine in 2021 or 2020 some odd you know 2021 2022 2023 70 employees for a lot of people. Listen, I went to the original Jersey Jack factory many, many times. It was like an hour away from you in Jersey? Yeah, well, it was an hour away from my office. I'm in Delaware, but I work in Jersey. And I was an hour away from there. I would go and pick up my games there when I would order anything. And I don't believe that there was ever that many people working there at that time. No, yeah. I've heard that as well. Now, they're still hiring as well. they need to increase production. I think they know that, but I'd like to see that. I'd like to see them because they have all the capabilities and the product offerings to do more of a two big run system. Two lines. I think they're getting there. I think that we see, how long are we going to hear that? I don't know. Would you rather than not make any games at all? Is that better for you? No soup for you. Where's my fucking GNR CE? Where's mine? Yes. I get yours. I get mine. I couldn't have held you go through. But happy 10-year anniversary, Jersey Jack Pinball. Did you see these CEs that the band members get? Yeah, it was pretty cool, wasn't it? All I saw was the top part of it, though. Was the game any different, or is it just the plate is different? Yeah, I think it's just an exclusive plate. Maybe they haven't signed their own machines.
    57:46
    Maybe they're signing the play fields on their own games. I don't know. I think it's pretty much, I was talking to Ken, I think it's the same. They just get that one of one badge. They just get that different badge. I actually saw, I helped a friend of mine. He got his, and I helped him get it down his basement and unbox it.
    58:04
    Man, I saw your LE at your house, and that was beautiful as it is. This sparkle playfields that they're doing on these things are just... Is that pretty cool? It doesn't picture well. It doesn't picture well, no. and I think it's because obviously listen, no game really photos well, even when they do these high def releases or whatever they call these things, I still think they're missing the boat on stuff until you see something in person, you see those radcals shine and you see that playfield sparkle it definitely is something to play that, devil's advocate here is it really worth that much more money?
    58:46
    $3,000? That's a lot of money, folks. Okay, so let's go through this, right? So you've got the Sparkle Playfield. Okay, I'll give you an extra $500 for that. Okay, you've got a mirrored back glass, which I know you're a huge fan of mirrored back glasses. Now, that is a small little bitty back glass. It's not much of a focal point as is other games. So I'll give you an extra $750 for that. We're at $1,250. Okay, so $1,250. You're going to get the band member signature on that card, which for what it's worth. $100.
    59:14
    $1,350. How much? $100. $100 for Slash and Duff and Axel? I just don't give a shit about autographs. I could care less. Do you care more about Duff and Slash and Axel or Gary Stern signing a certificate and the designer signing a play field? Pretty equivalent to me. I think it's much more, but that's okay. Then you have the laser-cut armor. Forget the color because they're both powder-coated. Laser-cut versus C, but now it's laser-cut. I'm going to give you $500 for that. So we're at $1,750. $1,850. $1,950. Okay. 19, you forget the signature. 1950.
    59:50
    Then you have these. That's a big one. The Radcals. And not only, they're different than the normal Radcals, which are just a shiny, sheer kind of plastic material. It's a chrome. These are now, what do they call them, metallic? They called them mirrored Radcals. That's what they called them. But in the pictures, it looks more like a mirrored. They're not mirrored. Here's what I put them equivalent to. The construction workers, when they wear their yellow vests and they have the silver strips that go through them so that they're reflective when they're on the road at night, that's what I would put them. That's what I would call that. It's more like that shiny embossment, a glossy look. Yeah, I'll give you – 500? No, I'll give you more than that. I'll give you 750. Those sell for 750, I bet. Rad Cal. All right, so now you're at 2650 if my math is good. No, 2700. Yep, you've got RGB exterior lighting. I'll give you another $250 for that. And then you've got the topper and the sound bar, regardless of the issues I ran into with the first group. You give me a physical ball lock now as well. With the coma lock in the bottom of the play field? Yep. You give me a skull accessory shooter rod.
    61:06
    Which I'm not a huge fan of it, but it's more. I do. I know my games. Yeah, we're well over $3,000. You're well over $3,000 in my opinion. Yep. From the upgrades. Now, the next question would be. Oh, Invisigland? Oh, you get that in the LE. Now you get the LE and Shaker Motor get the LE. So the question is, though, for each person, what do you value them at? Not for what they actually cost because you can go sell a game and you know I mod my games out and I powder coat everything. But it doesn't have the dollar for dollar tradeoff to each person. It's kind of like the autographs with me. I don't value them that high, but they're probably more than $100 getting them all to sign one piece. Yeah, and guess what? If you take that out, we were still at that number anyway with that, the autographs. Yep, yep. That's why I preach with the Stern LEs. Same thing.
    61:52
    It does add up if you like that stuff. Yeah, I think there's a huge – and guess what? It showed, right? Because within an hour, two hours, whatever you want to call it, they were gone, all 500 of them, you know, between distributors and them. Yep, looking forward to it, looking forward to it. I'm also looking forward to this Thursday. Mark your calendar now. The Pinball Industry Awards, presented by the Pinball Network. Sponsored by Pinball and Trophy Depot. Now it's Thursday.
    62:22
    28th. Okay. I thought it was Wednesday the 27th. God, don't scare me, Joe. One less day for me to finish. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, the 28th at 8 p.m. Oh, the 27th is the reach-arounds. Yeah, that's right. But, yeah, so we got the Pinball Industry Awards. The event is coming up. We got a teaser promo probably this week as well. We'll showcase the host, maybe the trophy. Damn it, trophy is nice. I don't know which looks better, the host or the trophy. It's hard to say. The host is a trophy, depending on who you ask. Oh. Not me. I'm not speaking for myself. No, absolutely not. I can be your trophy piece.
    63:03
    Sit me on your mantle. Multimorphic's in the news. Did you hear they have a game called Heist? Why? Well, nobody's talking about it, but they released, finally, some art to go on the slingshots and midway play field on the side quarter panel things there. This just in. So does Led Zeppelin now have art on its slingshots. Yeah, but Multimorphic never had that. I'm kidding, because either does Led Zeppelin. Oh! I was going to go there, too. Nicely done. Thank you. So if you want slingshot art and mid-playfield plastic arts for your heist or Lexi, this is only $40 a kit. It looks better. I can tell you that much. Listen, this is a beaten horse, obviously, right? Yeah. And I've actually never played a multimorphic game. I've seen them at shows, and the line was always long. I didn't feel like stopping, in my opinion. do you do do you do multi-morphic or do you do one of these virtual pins neither of them are pinball i i would say but would you choose a do a virtual pin where you're getting you know half the cost with 900 games or do you do multi-morphic at you know 10 000 plus and then every time you get out of game it's another 2500 unequivocally 100 i go multi-morphic there especially after the week i've had with virtual pinball what what week is that Foxy Oh Dr. Phil yes It's me Fan favorite pinball show Dr. Phil what do we owe this great honor to you to be here this week Listen Lots of sons of bitches out there In this industry Boneheads Look I didn't fall off the turnip truck Right right you hear me You hear me I hear you. Yeah.
    64:57
    I'm sure your wonderful, articulate host of the Pinball Show will discuss it in Market Trends. What do they call it? Do they call it foreshadowing? I'll give you some foreshadowing.
    65:13
    Screw you, virtual pinball. With your false advertisement bullshit. Thank you, Dr. Phil. I don't know what he's talking about. I have no idea what he's talking about. I guess there's only one way to find out.
    65:35
    Joe Fox, you ready for everyone's favorite pinball podcast segment? Oh, we're doing Dr. Phil again? Well, no, it's not that. It's just a little thing I like to call... That was the wrong thing. Pimba Market Trends! All right. See how you did that? I thought you told me if I came on, you were going to skip that this week. No, we've got to have the little Pimba Market Trends! Well, I do actually enjoy this segment. I know Dennis doesn't. I actually feel that there is some validity towards your research in this topic. Oh, really? Because I do watch some of the stuff that you're referring to, and I go back and look myself. I do believe that. So you're saying the man knows his shit?
    66:25
    Let's just say yes. Yes. Creaky door over there. Turning up this week is Kiss Ellie. Did you see this? Shit bally. Oh, my God. Man. Almost a deal of a what the fuck, but it's selling. I sent it to you as a deal of what the fuck, except, right, it's sold. $14,500 Kiss LE with topper. Of course, the topper we've seen recently sell for $2,000. You can still take that off. You're still above the $10,000 threshold for a Kiss Stern.
    67:00
    Unbelievable. Wow. Not a terrible game. Talk about a market appreciation there. Yeah, I wish I'd held on to mine if I'd have known that. Why? Riddle me this, listener and Joe Fox. Why the sudden love for Kiss Pinball? Here's my guess. My guess is you're not going to have anyone part with the topper. Correcting. Therefore, you've got to buy the whole package, and the topper plays a huge, huge play into this. Oh.
    67:34
    Wow. Topper fluence? Is that what I'm hearing? You may have some responsibility in this matter. No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the topper itself having... Oh, the topper itself. I think people are paying... Influencing the desire of the pin. It doesn't make a ton of sense because... Well, it only could be because people won't part with the topper. And if you want the topper... But then what do you do? You're going to eat an 11.5 Kiss LE? No.
    68:02
    You're going to sell your premium that maybe you have? You're going to sell your own LE and take a loss in order to have the one with the topper? I can't figure out anything else why it would be that way. I don't understand it either, but the numbers don't lie. We only report the facts here at the Pimmo. No, there's two of them. One is pending, and one is for sale in North Carolina, both for $14,500. And who knows if they got that, but I guarantee they got at least $12,000. You're not listing something for $14,500 and taking $6,000. If I told you listeners out there four years ago that that Kiss LE that nobody wants is selling in 2021 for over $12,000, $13,000, you would say damn did climbing get on the code like what happened to it you there would have been an argument that that that amount of years ago two of them weren't worth 14.5 and the code is solid right it's solid but it's nothing to write home about no i never played the new code after they revamped it when you know kiss it had gone so long without an update and they i had just sold mine like three months before they came out with the new code so i don't i've never played a new code. Well, I have, but it's cleaned up. It's a little better. What I'm saying is it is not commanding the price of this pen now because of that code. Artwork looks good. I think it's a damn great shooter, but is it really that different from Aerosmith or Guardians of the Galaxy or Metallica? No, not really. It reminds me of Aerosmith more than anything else, but is it because they didn't make as many? Possibly. And now the exclusivity? Because Aerosmiths are all over the place. You've got a D&D where Aerosmith and Guardians, you can get an LCD. That doesn't make sense. KISS is not really a band that's made this comeback that everybody's like, holy shit, it's Queen. I love Queen now. Right? It's not that. What the hell is it? We're going to have to find the buyers and ask them what it is. I think some of it's exclusivity. They didn't probably... You don't see them all the time. You don't see them around as much. And, damned me, but I think a lot of it is that topper. People want this this is stupid and crazy and true people want that game in their collection because they like topper enabled games and that's one of the best toppers out there it is one of the best toppers out there i mean it's very simple and it was a 400 topper when it came out but it brings it's probably one of the most theme matching toppers if that makes sense it's a spectacle And we know the people that pay too much for shit like this are us, hobbyists and collectors. And we will overpay for something if it doesn't even have to play, as long as it looks good and it's fitting for our collection. That's why. That's why it's turning up, and that's why it's going for so much. A little foreshadowing, I've been telling you guys. Turning up this week is Stranger Things, Ellie.
    70:52
    Stranger Things, Ellie. You took a hit on one of those, didn't you, Joe? I had one. I got rid of it.
    71:00
    Although, I told you already, I have the desire to take one back. Not necessarily an LE, but at least a premium with the code updates and different things. Maybe I didn't give it a fair shake. Premium's still kind of holding steady in the upper sixes, lower sevens there. So, not really turning that up. I'm talking about a Stranger Things LE. Ladies and gentlemen, if you want to get a Stranger Things game and you find an LE that pops up, I'm just telling you right now, this is my crystal silver ball foreshadowing here. I'm waving my hands across it. Grab it now before they're 14-5 and before the topper comes out.
    71:38
    Where is the topper? Where is the Stranger Things topper? Instead of where's the code, everybody says, where's the topper? Yeah, forget the code. Where's the topper? We need topper. I don't know where the topper is. I'm hoping that we'll see it in March. That's my guess. Hoping March. Maybe February. Hell, who knows. I guess COVID had a lot of effect on all this stuff. I mean, it's not just as simple as manufacturing where you couldn't keep up, but I guess production on certain things and design and all that everything been affected and still kind of has its lingering effects right It sad Joe when flipping out pinball our interested list for certain rumored toppers are longer than future title releases. I'm not joking. I'm sure. I'm not joking. Also trending out this week is the mustache himself, Roger Schaar. He's been trending up since 1976. And he continues to. If he continues to entertain me to the degree that he is, I'll continue trending him up. But when we take the good here at the Pinball Show, we also take the bad. Training down this week is Dialed in L.E.
    72:46
    Joe, you're looking for a C, aren't you? Yeah, this game's another victim of just a theme. Because once people play this game, they say how fun it is and what a great shooter it is. Rules are awesome. Yeah, SIM card shot, yes, is difficult, but not unmakeable. Still satisfying. But it's another victim, I think, of a non-themed pinball game. When you drain that ball when you have a SIM card lit. Ooh, you want to bang your head on the ball. On edge. Yeah, I like this game a lot. I had it for a long time. I can't keep every game. I mean, I could only probably name two or three games that I would just say I never would get back at Roadshow. But Dialed In is not one of them for sure. And, yeah, I put an ad out recently looking for a CE just to kind of match up with the Wonka and the Guns N' Roses and that one. But I did get one message who wanted what I thought was a little bit too high for that title with that little bit of uptake. They wanted 11 for it? No, they actually wanted 10. No, don't even have a conversation unless we're talking a minimum of 10.
    73:56
    And to me, I was just like, nah, it's not that important, Yelly. Just, you know, I'll go get a new LE still in the box from people at nine. Yeah, man, absolutely. And since I can't get the jacket anymore and I can't have lunch with Jack and Pat anymore, you know, there's no real upgrade. I mean, that was their first dance with CEs and bringing something extra to the table. And, you know, I think those coupons have expired at this point, you know, having lunch with those guys, which would have been a great experience. but I can't cash in on that. So the CE is just maybe just because it's a little different. You don't know if it was going to be a great experience. Pat Lawler could have been a messy, sloppy eater or something. Yeah, but you know what? At least you could say he dropped a meatball in your lap or something. That's true. What if he ate ketchup out of the packet straight? He could be a weird fucking eater that just disgusts you. Worse, what if he takes the condiments in the packets and puts them in his pocket to take home so he can push them into his ketchup bottle in the refrigerator. I want Pat Lawler to be the soup eater that eats it like a cat eats a bowl of milk. I don't know.
    75:03
    Just to see him do it, and you're like, yeah. Like, Pat, that's a stew. Like, what are you doing? Can't take you anywhere. So, yeah, unfortunately, Turning Down is dialed in, because you can pick up an LE now, mid to low sevens. I saw a standard. I don't know if it was on Pinsider Facebook. Was it $6,000 for a standard? $6,000. Standards have dropped to, my market estimation is $5,800 to $6,200 for a standard. What was the deal with the standard? The LE had ramp lights where the standard didn't. The armor was stainless steel versus blue. Stainless steel. You get a little bit of different artwork. You also get that die cut thing in the back, I believe. The die cut thing? The lit. It's not lit back there. Okay. The plexi cut out in the back Thank you There's a couple things there $58 to $6,200 for a standard Dialed in is Sinking fast Also sinking fast this week Is the pinball show Turning down this week Is the pinball Wait, hold it That can't be right No, it's right That's because you had me on here I told you It's not going to work out for you Ladies and gentlemen I'm just being clever here It is true that the pinball show Is trending down But it's not the pinball show That everybody is accustomed to No, no, no It's not one of the top pinball podcasts of all time Featuring Dennis Creasel and myself, Zach Minney No It's not the trident through How many pinball shows can there be? There only can be one pinball show Thank you, Preach thank you there was an entity that came out this last week with a nice shit promo video announcing i really did you say a nice shit promo video yeah sorry uh oxymoron no just fell out of my mouth um a nice promo i'll be nice here and it uh it's called the pinball show features two hosts on youtube it's complete bullshit pinball show you know who does this this isn't just some idiot asshat either. It's Zen Studios, creators of virtual pinball.
    77:25
    Here's the deal. Here's my bite. Here's the deal. If you're going to call something the pinball show, make sure that it's better than what's already out there. Call the pinball show! I'm putting my money down in Vegas right now. My guarantee to you, listener, is that the Zen Studio version of the pinball show, which was rightfully mine will not hold a candle to what we are doing over here it's just it's going to be laughable it's going to be cute what is it is it a youtube show it's a youtube show but they're it's a false advertisement listener it's not the pinball show they're not covering pinball they're covering virtual pinball virtual if you're gonna you're gonna change bite that if you're gonna steal the name at least change it up a little bit like if uh we could do straight down the right out lane straight down the programmed drain no it's good guys zen studios if you're listening out there i'm flattered i'm flattered and if you guys need any other gold ideas like i've said before reach out to me first i'd be happy to help but stealing the name the pinball show when you're not covering pinball what am i gonna have the fucking toaster show and talk about pinball What are we coming to here, people? You call it the virtual pinball show because that's an accurate representation of what you're covering. Or hell, call it the fake pinball show. Have a little tongue-in-cheek there. That's what I'd go with. But calling it the pinball show is no bueno. No, I'm not salty. I'm not bitter about it at all. Not at all. He's in studios waiting to hear from his lawyer. Yeah, no shit. No, I've already looked into trademarking and trademarking the process for the pinball show for ourselves. I will say that. But you're in Hungary. It doesn't qualify. It doesn't matter anyway. Yeah. People from out of the country in certain countries can do whatever the hell they want. Like, oh, licensed property? Sure, we'll print it for you. You don't give a shit. Yeah. So, no, it's not going to matter. And you can't touch them. Hey, I like the battle. I like the competition. You bring it, fake pinball show. Let's see what you got. We'll see who's going to keep the crown for the actual title of the pinball show. Bet it's going to be me and Dundee. I don't think it's much of a competition. Also trending down this week, this is more of a fun one, a cuddly one. Can you trim down something and still be fun and cuddly?
    79:47
    Sure. I thought the cutest flattery this last week listening to the super awesome pinball show. Aw, sweet, sweet Franchi over there. He's precious. He attempted, Joe Fox, to do a deals of the what the fuck. He called it something different, but that was what it was. Hell was so similar and akin to what I've been doing that he even used the deals of the what the fuck example of the Guns N' Roses that I used last week. Imitation is the best form of flattery, I think. So, Franchi, again, competition. I'm ready, buddy. Let's bring it. Let's see who can really bring people. The deals of the what the fuck. the pinball show yeah you have to tune into the saps dude it was good it was nicely done yeah i have to i wasn't in the car at all since it came out so i forgot what he called it he called it franchi pants or he called it something where he takes a pinball machine that's priced too high and shits on i'm like wait i feel like this is similar to what i've heard before it sounds very similar and there's a lot of room there's a lot of room in this uh in his hobby. Oh, the sandbox is big. Yes, absolutely. And I love fun and competition. So I put it to Franchi. If he has a better stolen what the fuck, then I'll give him ownership. He can have it. See? I love sandbox. Everybody just get along. Yeah. Me and Franchi have fun in the sandbox. We're buds. Absolutely. We're buds. Except for that cat turd over there. Who brought that?
    81:20
    Who's got the cat? That's Dennis's. Let's save you a buck or two this week in Deals of the Week. Bye, bye, bye. Deals of the Week this week is, ooh. Speaking of Stranger Things, Ellie, there's one on Pennside right now by Wake Camp outside of Orlando, Florida.
    81:38
    A lot of pens coming from Florida. How much? 5,000? 5,500? 8,200. Oh. 8,200. I know you might think that's high, but I'm telling you right now. It's got the UV kit installed. Does it say UV kit? Cleveland sound cards in there. Is it TK Mech dialed in? They didn't put that, so I'm assuming no. $8,200. I think you're going to want to pay that price in six months for this. Believe me. Oh, I'll buy it. I'll just take yours for $7,500. Mine's not going anywhere. That's what you said about Jurassic Park and Avengers. Yeah, but that was a stupid price. That's true. Well, $7,500 is stupid, too. It's just the other way. Yeah. I mean, it would take a little bit to get. I wouldn't sell that Stranger Things LE that I have for less than what I have in it. I just wouldn't. I love that game. Yeah. Listen, if you like a game, the value is never going to be obtained because you like it. Absolutely.
    82:38
    You know. So, absolutely. Speaking of LEs, we also have another deal of the week this week. This one's got my feelers up a bit. A Deadpool limited edition from C-S-E-R-O-L-D. Surrolled out of Dallas, Texas. This is on Pennside. These don't pop up, Foxy. You know that. Deadpool LEDs don't always pop up. And I don't know the big... I've got to be honest. I don't... You don't have a Deadpool, right? You don't have any. That's one game that I didn't ever put in my Stern lineup, really. I've had a Pro before. I've owned a Premium a little bit. It's never been a game that I fell in love with. It's a greatness of a game, but never... Never clicked with me to the degree other games have. I love this game. I had an LE, and I got somebody who offered me a stupid price for it. And I bought a premium and replaced it, which I actually like the artwork on the premium better with the Megalodon. And I jazzed it all up. And I think I showed you pictures with that red sparkle powder coat that I did. Really pretty. So the game itself plays the same. But, yeah, there's been a big run on Deadpool LEs over the last, I don't know, three, four months where they started going up where new in-box prices were getting more. Premium same way. Can't get a premium. Haven't ran them in a long, long time. The LE is beautiful. I've gotten multiple messages of people asking me if I want to part with my Deadpool LE, and the answer has been no. And I'm sure one day it'll be yes. But, yeah, this was a great, what was it, $8,100 or $8,200? $8,200, and it's got the aftermarket. It doesn't have the good topper on it, but it's got a topper on it. This week's proper deals up. The Francie Pants. All right, so this week's Francie Pancies or something. I don't know.
    84:19
    It's a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the Data East version. Hmm. Let's take a look here, listener. We're on Pennside right now. And we're looking up by Traverse City, Michigan. And we've got by the name of Wham! Pooh! Whammy! WAM is selling a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Data East version, $2,000 game. Let's see here. LED display, full LEDs, green outer cab lighting, new speaker up. Who's putting this much time into this shit game? Original pizza. Ramps are clear. Revently shopped. Flippers rebuilt. Cold soldered. What shopped? Is that recently? Yeah, recently shopped. Flippers rebuilt. Cold soldered. Fused clips have been going through. Game plays awesome. Plays amazing. Rebuilt the shooter to original. I don't know what that means. Rebuilt shooter to original. I don't know what that means either. But I don't know the game. I've literally never played one, and I've actually never even seen one. And when I'm looking at this, this example does look, it looks okay. He said the ramps are clear because they're clear plastics, but they're foggy, ugly-looking ramps, to be fair. Wait a minute. The ramps are wire forms, aren't they? Oh, I see them in the back. The side-by-side, like the back-to-to-toe bullshit. Yeah, they don't look, I wouldn't say exceptional. The pop-upper caps look foggy. Yeah. There's nothing.
    85:46
    Yeah, it's okay. Look at the head. Head's got chips out of it. Chip on the top. Yeah, the whole top and the side left. And I can guarantee you that is a mirrored back glass, and I can guarantee you that son of a bitch is not great. I've not seen one that is great. Yeah, the close-up pics, you see the lines and all the what now? Yeah, the ramps are cracked around the rivets. See, that's why enthusiasts look like that. He's got mixed LEDs. He's got some of the flat ones. He's got some domes on them and the skill shot ramps. This is, listener, this is what us collectors will look at a lot of times. You've got a dingy old decal for the turtle. You've got added things in there. What I'm saying is it's a decent example. A decent example goes for $2,000. A decent example does not go for $4,000.
    86:42
    Sell, sell, sell. Hey, Nicole, hon, yeah, go up into our special closet. Could you get me a whip, a gag? Get me a yo-yo in there. Yeah, for shits and giggles, throw in a yo-yo. out in the garage gasoline little gasoline okay and that jar of spit that i've been saving yeah thanks four thousand wham wham is the name of this person that's the way you're gonna feel if you go pick up this damn thing anything remotely near four thousand dollars yeah i don't that one i uh i i now you've you've you've taken me to your side right four thousand dollars. If that's not a Franchi pants, I don't know what is. Even Franchi would agree with me. Come on, Franchi, cover this one next week. This is crazy. And ladies and gentlemen, that was your often imitated, never duplicated pinball motherfucking market trends.
    87:46
    Trademark, biatch. Alright, Joe, we're going to close down the show. I really want to thank you for being my buddy and dealing with me and my antics and having fun. We're like-minded in a lot of ways, but you keep me in check as well on certain things. So thanks for being around. Thanks for being just a genuine sweetheart to me and my family. And I cannot wait to come up to Delaware and to hang out with you once the world goes back to normal. I don't know what we're going to do because there's nothing going on up there, I've been told. There is literally nothing going on here. Yeah, but all I got to do is sprint for a minute and a half And I hit a jersey or something, right? Yeah, jersey or PA or Vermont No, Vermont's not close It's not close? I don't know my geography Yeah, it's just because I get a map I thought Delaware was the dingleberry of Vermont or something Rhode Island maybe? No Would you come back on again, Joe Fox? It's always a pleasure Yeah, I'm always willing to come on And give my pointless pieces of knowledge But I can't come back on again until May of 2021, remember. No, it's still going to get you veteran status before we get there. I'm getting close, too. Joe Fox, when I wake in the morning and I step outside, I take a deep breath, and I just get really fucking high, I want to know how people can reach you. Can they find you on Facebook? I'm on Facebook. I'm on Pinside. I'm around. You can find me. All the names are the same, Joe Fox. Joseph Fox, don't message my dad. He'll be confused. Have you ever... Oh, God.
    89:28
    Joe Fox, do you ever scream from the top of your lungs, what's going on? I don't, actually. No, I can't say I do, but maybe tomorrow I'll start, and you might be able to hear me. I mean, we're 13 hours apart, but together in our hearts. I'd love to discuss that. You can always reach out to me or Dennis at thepinballnetworkatgmail.com or straight down the middle of a video series with Greg Bone and I. Email there is sdtmpinball at gmail.com. Speaking of my golden ideas, I just wanted to say thank you to the Poor Man's Pinball podcast. They sent me out a couple of T-shirts to wear. One of them is my favorite. It's got the Franchi artwork on it and the slogan I helped them create, the sloppiest show on the Internet on the bottom. It's a pretty purple T-shirt, so thanks, fellas. You are the king of pinball T-shirts. People think you might do it just on air, but you literally wear those pinball t-shirts no matter where you're at. Thank you. I do. But there's one requisite for it. It's got to be soft. Okay. We'll go with that. Can't be scratchy. If my nips get harmed, it'll never be wore again.
    90:32
    So no wool t-shirts for you, huh? I can pull off some wool because it's sexy, but I want like a wool sweater. You mean wool like Bernie Sanders' mittens wool? I can get down with that. You know what? my nips are more prone to a starchy cotton than they are a wool. Believe it or not. I've got picky nips. Picky nips. Oh, if you're ready to buy a brand new sexy-ass pinball machine, you can reach out to the one place that you'll start calling family. It's Flippin' Out Pinball. If you want to talk to somebody that's sane, call Nicole, my beautiful and wonderful and intelligent wife. If you want to talk to me about pinball, God help you. but if you're looking for a machine showcase this week is the teenage mutant ninja turtles premiums still got a couple left on those and we got i think we have one pro until the next run but led zeppelin pro available now premiums are coming i believe first week of february so get your order in for one of those avengers premiums coming in february as well batman 66 premium guys i still have one i don't know what people are waiting on those things are going to Gone, gone, gone. Alien pre-orders, get yours in. Hot Wheels, we can get you one of those, as well as a beautiful red Willy Wonka collector's edition like the Foxy and I. Medieval Madness accessories, those remake toppers and displays, those should have been trending up this week. We've sold a lot of those this week for some reason. I don't know what the deal is. That topper is awesome. King of pain, baby. I know it doesn't move. It's just the sheer detail in that topper and the light show that it puts off. That sculpt is great. It really is. Those games really set themselves apart. They do. And what's filling up quick right now, Joe Fox? I'll tell you. That pre-interested list for the next unannounced CGCLE, that's going to fill up. That's going to fill up. So all of you guys that even maybe do the number matching, please reach out to me. Give me a heads up on that if you're going to want in line for that. Or even if you don't and you just want an LE likely, regardless of what they produce, need to message me. And if you're looking for some armor to really customize your game, go with the beautiful stock armor from Sturm Pinball. Right now we have in stock the Avengers armor, the TMNT armor, and the Jurassic Park armor. How do you still have Jurassic Park armor? Why didn't everyone buy those up? I know. It's crazy. I don't get it. They're actually the better ones. The ones that are laser cut are the best ones because it just has that little bit of paper on the back to give it color. You can take off and then have them powder coated and then put it right back on. The Pinball Network last week, TPN last week We did have a cool top 10 TPN streamer clip Definitely check that out, that was a lot of fun Thanks to We Love Pinball for putting those together And this week, TPN's got a lot going on We've got the Pinball Industry Awards This Thursday At YouTube.com I think it's going to be slash the Pinball Network But be on the lookout for the promo To explain where to go on that That's going to be a lot of fun It's going to be a little quirky And next year's going to be just huge But prior to that, the reach rounds are on final round. Wednesday. Wednesday, the 27th. Got to tune in for that. Silver Ball Chronicles. I was just updated that we're going to be hearing a Silver Ball Chronicles episode very soon as well. Those are greatly done, greatly researched. Now as we're looking almost a year into TPN, Joe, people can bitch and moan and whine all they want, but the group of us over here at TPN have really, in my opinion, brought a lot of different variety and fun to pinball. over the last year. So there's a ton of variety, and I don't think you will find a bigger group of people that work to getting this stuff out there for everybody. You may not like it. It may not always be your cup of tea, each one of them, but you've got to give them props for putting themselves out there, taking their time to stream games, do podcasts, and do the research and all those different things. Joe Fox watches a lot of HGTV. He's just not a big fan of the Property Brothers. Doesn't mean he doesn't watch HGTV anymore. He still loves the Fixer Upper. Oh, sure you do. You're a Bob Vila fan? Old school man? Actually, yeah. This old house. What we're going to work on for the eighth week in a row? Fucking crown molding. It's tricky, but we can teach you. Try not to fall asleep. For Joe Fox, I am the original pinball show host. Zach Minney. And always practice safe pinball and Sigourney Weaver up. Sigourney up. I don't know why they didn't get that. And always practice safe pinball and get your own goddamn gold ideas and names, fuck, up. So long, everybody. Where's that fucking goat?
    95:29
    And I said, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I said, hey, what's going on? And I said, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I said, hey, what's going on? And I said, hey, hey, hey Hey, hey, hey I said, hey, what's going on?