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DPP #137 "Southern Fried Haggis!"

Don's Pinball Podcast (regular feed)·podcast_episode·30m 22s·analyzed·Jul 20, 2024
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.026

TL;DR

Don reviews Godzilla 70th at Southern Fright Expo; discusses Haggis Pinball closure and content creation ethics.

Summary

Don attends Southern Fright Gaming Expo in Atlanta, plays the newly revealed Godzilla 70th Anniversary pinball (Premium trim, not LE despite menu listing), praises it as one of the best modern games, and discusses Haggis Pinball's collapse and the ethical complexity around covering failed manufacturers' products.

Key Claims

  • Godzilla 70th Anniversary is listed as LE in menu options despite being released as Premium trim

    high confidence · Don directly observed the machine at the show and checked the menu settings

  • Godzilla 70th is selling 'probably better than anything else that's out on the market right now' or 'at least as good as'

    medium confidence · Don reported conversations with MadPinball (sold out of initial allotment, reordering) and Classic Game Rooms (selling 'okay')

  • Stern committed to making Godzilla 70th as long as there's interest, potentially 1,500-2,000 units or more

    medium confidence · Don's statement based on what he heard at the show

  • Godzilla 70th Premium trim has only trans light, no back glass, standard premium wrinkle coat armor (lacks sparkle/grayscale/gloss black or laser-cut features)

    high confidence · Don directly played both machines and inspected cosmetics

  • Haggis Pinball's failure was driven by ego and lack of transparency rather than external circumstances

    medium confidence · Don speculating based on industry conversations and public silence from the company

  • Only three Centaur machines were ever made by Haggis Pinball

    medium confidence · Don's statement during discussion of the Haggis collapse

  • Used pinball game prices are down to 'more reasonable' levels

    medium confidence · Don's market observation at the show

  • Spooky Pinball is considering releasing two games per year with smaller limited runs instead of one large release

    medium confidence · Bug from Spooky responded affirmatively to Don's question at seminar; Bug said 'that may be something we could do'

Notable Quotes

  • “This is the game that sold the most for good reason it's a great game... probably the sales leader when we look back, you know, a decade from now.”

    Don @ mid-show — Don positions Godzilla as likely the best-selling modern Stern game, cementing its market success despite Premium-only trim

  • “What's not good for pinball in general is people essentially throwing money into a pit or being scammed.”

    Don @ Haggis discussion — Don frames Haggis's lack of transparency as damaging to the industry, countering arguments that criticizing manufacturers is bad for pinball

  • “So I'm not going to stomp so much on Haggis. I think the actions really speak for themselves there.”

    Don @ Haggis conclusion — Don takes measured approach to Haggis failure, avoiding excessive blame while maintaining accountability

  • “We should look at this thing like a frickin moon rock, man. This thing is rare. It's hardly going to exist on the Earth.”

    Don @ Haggis Centaur discussion — Don defends covering rare failed-company machines as legitimate content, comparing scarcity to lunar material

  • “The ball is a big silver mirror anyway, so who cares what the game field looks like.”

    Don @ Godzilla gameplay analysis — Don dismisses ball-tracking concerns on grayscale Godzilla, noting visibility is not compromised

Entities

DonpersonBugpersonGodzilla 70th AnniversarygameStern PinballcompanyHaggis PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanySouthern Fright Gaming ExpoeventGenghisperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball collapse due to lack of transparency, ego, and failure to communicate financial distress or seek alternative funding

    medium · Don's analysis based on industry conversations; noted radio silence on deadlines, no fundraising attempts, empty promises

  • ?

    community_signal: Haggis Pinball failure sparking debate about content creator ethics, with some attacking Kerry Hardy for covering the machines

    medium · Don discussed accusations during We Are Pinball episode; defended Hardy against 'shill' claims, noting rarity of machines justifies coverage

  • ?

    event_signal: Southern Fright Gaming Expo features robust homebrew section with innovative games like Trident's Vox Machina (dual playfield design)

    high · Don attended show; observed Ernie's three homebrews and Aaron's Fast Pinball game being wired live

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Godzilla 70th Premium trim stripped of expected LE-level cosmetics (no back glass, standard wrinkle coat, no gloss/grayscale/laser-cut armor)

    high · Don directly inspected both machines; noted these should be standard for anniversary celebration game

  • $

    market_signal: Used pinball prices down to 'reasonable' levels; Godzilla 70th selling well but not at run-on levels

    medium · Don reported conversations with MadPinball (reordering) and Classic Game Rooms ('selling okay')

  • $

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.091

0:00
let's get back with some more podcasting goodness what's up everybody's non-spinball podcast let's talk about haggis i'm at the southern fright gaming exploit paid godzilla 70th so much more to talk about that i want to just get right into it pretty quickly here let's move you ready i think i'm ready that was so quick hello welcome salutations everybody can you believe all the news that's going on here in the historically called slowest part of the pinball year i barely have a voice after day one of the southern fry gaming expo here in atlanta georgia hotlanta as they call it and boyd is living up to that here in july although the rain while you would think it'd be a nice break from the day it's just torrential it'll just show up out of nowhere particularly when you want to cross the street back to your off-site hotel that you're staying at but regardless i'm having a blasty blast here let's start with some celebratory goodness I got to play Godzilla 70th not just one, no, there's two of them here from Classic Game Rooms and Marco Specialties and Stern Pinball somehow in some kind of porridge of cohabitation have made this happen so I went up and I actually played both machines, they're both the same, they're both premium level trims but I do have some little revelations that have come out actually it's funny, in the menu options, it's listed as an LE, so confirmed this was always going to be a Godzilla LE Looking at the thing, I kind of think it should have been because it's weird to see it stripped down as much as it is. This should have been a celebration of Godzilla. I get that they don't want to cheese off the LE owners, and they did receive a lot of blowback from the JP-30th and what they've been doing with Elvira and everything. But, man, it needs to be that higher trim level, and I don't get to why I think that. Now, at first walking up to the machine, it's got a trans light. It doesn't have a back glass. It really should have a back glass. The art of the sides is fantastic. It's LE level. That's like the one carryover, and I'm glad they kept it and didn't get rid of that awesome foil embossing that they tend to put on these things when they did the premium trim level of it. But, you know, it's got the standard premium armor, you know, that wrinkle coat, and it's like it needed a sparkle, it needed a grayscale, it needed something. At minimum, like a gloss black, and it would have been great if it had laser-cut side armor. That's part of what you should add to it. So what's the deal with the game? Like, is this, you know, did this need to be made? And so looking at the play field, when I first got there, they were setting up still, so the games weren't even in attract mode yet. They were powered on to the settings menu. And so it just had kind of generic GE, general illumination lights going on. They're white and red, so there's a white bulb and a red bulb basically everywhere around the GI. And it kind of casts through the plastics this soft kind of pinkish hue. So when you look at it, you're like, okay, it's Godzilla. It is in grayscale. The most striking things about it are the building that really utilize, like, okay, yes, this is in a grayscale kind of black and white motif. The rest of the gameplay field, because of the lit inserts, there's still a lot of color that's there. And especially when you're just in this kind of GI mode, there's just like a soft pink flooding the upper third of the play field and then lower around the slings and things. So I jokingly called it Godzilla's Pink Red Kiss because it wasn't black and white. It was black, white, and rosé all over the place. So initially I kind of dismissed it as like, okay, this is great. I'm glad I'm not like blown away by this thing because I'm not compelled to buy one now. I could save that money for some future funds. I can go put them in the investment account or something and do like a more financially responsible thing. To the chagrin of basically everybody that's still not convinced I haven't already purchased one of these things. If I did, I'd be calling up Mad Pinball. I did talk to Jeff at MadPinball.com recently. he sold out of his initial allotment and is already on the phone asking for more. So selling pretty well. I talked to Classic Game Rooms last night, and they said it was selling okay, but everything kind of is selling just okay right now. So it's selling probably better than anything else that's out on the market right now that was just released, or at least as good as, right? Definitely not a run on these things. If you want one, you'll be able to find one. I think you'll be able to find one down the road since Stern has committed to making these as long as there's interest. The one benefit of it not being a limited edition is there's not only 500 of these things that are ever going to be made. If it's a hit, they may make 1,500 or 2,000 of them. Who knows? They may do another run in a couple years if there's some pent-up demand and people want them. So in that way, it's cool.
Kerry Hardy
person
Jeff at MadPinballperson
Ernie from Trident Pinballperson
Aaron from Fast Pinballperson
Cab Customcompany
Classic Game Roomscompany
Marco Specialtiescompany

market_signal: Stern offering Godzilla 70th at Premium price despite LE-level features, giving consumers $3,000-$4,000 budget room for upgrades

high · Don's direct comparison of trim levels and price positioning; noted this is consumer-favorable vs traditional LE pricing

  • ?

    announcement: Godzilla 70th Anniversary confirmed as Premium trim only (not LE) despite internal menu listing it as LE

    high · Don directly inspected machines at show and checked menu settings; machines displayed by Classic Game Rooms and Marco Specialties

  • ?

    product_concern: Godzilla 70th black-and-white aesthetic compromised by red GI lighting, creating 'pinkish' hue rather than pure B&W

    high · Don played multiple machines and noted red GI 'dull(s) the black and white effect'; suggests white-only GI would improve aesthetic

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Don modulating his Haggis criticism over time, moving from accountability focus to acceptance that actions speak for themselves

    medium · Don noted he initially saw closure as 'inevitable'; now taking measured approach without excessive blame

  • ?

    business_signal: Spooky Pinball considering two-game-per-year strategy with smaller runs (300-500 units) instead of single large releases

    medium · Bug responded affirmatively to Don's question at Southern Fright seminar; Bug said 'that may be something we could do'

    • 4:30
    For the consumer, I guess this is a win because you're picking up what is essentially would have been locked as an LE trim level for the price of a premium. So go Stern. Go us. Go consumer. We have a lot of choices right now. Um, prices on used games are down to a more reasonable level. So it's a great time to be a pinball buyer right now. Um, you know, so that's, that's fantastic. So, uh, played the game a couple of times, played both of them that were there. Again, they both play the same, but it was just fun. Uh, the game is still Godzilla. It's still a really, really, really good game. Like the best of the modern era. I think that's safe to say. Um, probably the sales leader when we look back, you know, a decade from now is how the last 10 years went. this is going to be the game that sold the most for good reason it's a great game there's so many modes in here um you know it's one of l1's finest there's there's a bridge multi-ball this is the premium right so the bridge breaks for the bridge multi-ball the building goes up and down the godzilla multi-ball the tanks the kaiju battles the everything in it is just it it's fun that scoop is so frustratingly not like super difficult like it's not an unfair shot but it's just like unfair given my skill level that i can't just get it whenever i want it you gotta work for it But if you can master that scoop, you can really do a lot of damage in Godzilla. What a game. So I will say that playing the game, just trying to get back to it, I wasn't having any problems tracking the ball at all, at all. Color version playing it, black and white version playing it, the ball did not get lost on me. There's plenty of illumination. You'd be able to see it. The ball is a big silver mirror anyway, so who cares what the game field looks like. Unless it was a dark cabinet, that's the only reason you would lose track of the balls if you couldn't actually see it because it wasn't ambient light enough. So this thing's cool. What would this look like with a set of pin stadiums on it just throwing color all over the place? I think it would lose everything.
    6:21
    I've never really noticed that the GI lighting on the colorized version really kind of spoiled the colors or anything. It really seemed to complement everything. But really, the red GI on this black and white game really does kind of dull the black and white effect because you don't have any other colors saturating in there. The play field seems to just kind of soak up and reflect that red GI much more than I've ever noticed on the regular Godzilla. Now when you get into a destruction bonus mode and it's just the whole play field is in that red hue and it's kind of strobing in that back corner, you get that effect. But now it seems like the red is pretty overpowering. It would be interesting to see if you took out those handful of red LEDs and just put in the white ones for the GI and so the whole thing was just white, how that would look in play. I think you would get more of that black and white benefit. If anybody wants to get one of these and try that out, share your thoughts on how that was. Going around the rest of the cabinet, standard shooter knob. All of the crinkle cut powder coat is there. So if you want to really plush your machine, probably the most bang for the buck, replace that powder coat with something else if that's fire. Go get yourself some laser cut armor. I know right now Cab Custom is about the only person that offering it He got several different designs for Godzilla And is open for custom work I not sponsored by Cab Custom The guy in Barcelona It runs a Facebook page You can order stuff off there. It's about 140 euros, plus some shipping to wherever your location is. But it's a fair bit cheaper than any official releases that would come out. But we'll see if Stern has some, as at least the Godzilla Stern armor that they came out with. That would be an easy upgrade. I just like the feel of that gloss powder coat more than anything. That really feels like more high-end to me, more a probes, right? My Munsters that I've just picked up, it still has the regular premium coat, so I'm going to pick out something for that at least, even if it's just a gloss black. Simple, in stock at any powder coater, and really just abs up the feel of that. Love it. Love it. So what else can we say about Godzilla? If it has some ArtBlade, some Invisiglass, a shaker motor, a powder coat, and a back glass, I think it would really be something. So that's up to us. Fortunately, they're giving you about $3,000 to $4,000 worth of room in the budget over the price of an LE to add all those things. So that's cool. So for closer to the price of a traditional LE, you can get the topper and the shooter rod and the R-blades and the shaker motor and some Invisiglass, and then I think you'll still clear some money in the budget given that that Godzilla topper was only $1,000. Oh, are they going to pull a jerk move and put up the black and white Godzilla topper for $1,500? That would be a little twist of the knife if they were to do that. given the corporate nature of companies in America. I wouldn't say I would be shocked. I'd be a little surprised, but I wouldn't be shocked if they did that. But with what they're doing, not pricing this as an LE, I don't know if they would be so bold as to raise the price on the Godzilla topper. But they did it with Black Knight, Sword of Rage, so we'll see what happens. But if I could talk them off of that decision to release this as a $1,250 or $1,500 topper and keep it at 1,000, keep it at 1,000. Keep it one rack. I think that would be most beneficial. All right, so how's the show been going? This is my first time at the Southern Fright Gaming Expo. I had plans on being here last year, and then I got an offer to just pick up some extra shifts at work at a premium, and it was just like I was near to finishing with a student loan, so that was really the better decision to make, and so now the loans are dead. But I'm making up for that this year by coming down. I drove down from Wisconsin, which was fantastic. I think it allowed me to stop off at what seems to be the pinball show's favorite theme park, Holiday World in southern Indiana. It's fantastic. I rode – what was it? Good Gravy. They should have called it Gravy Train, but it's Good Gravy. It's a family-themed shuttle coaster themed after riding in a gravy boat. Some say it looks like a bedpan full of diarrhea. Others say it's a great time either way. So I thoroughly enjoyed it. So check out Holiday World. Also spend some time in Dollywood at Pidgey Forge, Tennessee, one of my favorite places in the country to go. If you haven't been, please go, and then you will know. You will know. But, you know, we were able to wander on down through the southern United States, through Appalachia, through the Smoky Mountains, through the plains of the Midwest to get down here to Georgia. And it's fun to do a road trip like that rather than just, you know, do the whole fly-in thing, especially with how perilous air travel is now with canceled flights and everything and missing connections.
    10:43
    So we got down in here. I'm at a hotel across the street, and it's also right next to a Costco. So shout-out to Costco. Give me some hot dogs. Grab some chicken bags for the kids. What a fun time I'm having. So this show, scope-wise, it seems about the same as a Midwest gaming classic that occurs in Minneapolis, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It seems definitely smaller than Expo, definitely smaller than TPF, and about a sixth of the size of IAPA. So if that helps fill in any. Pinball machine-wise, not a ton of stuff that's here. if you were to think of TPF which is strictly a pinball show the exhibit hall is smaller than the TPF hall is and it's got about a third of the pinball machines what's there is interesting people bring games this is a local regional show is what this feels like and I think that's okay it seems like there may be a little bit less than what you find at Midwest Gaming Classic but Midwest Gaming Classic makes up for it in other vendors for other nerd hobbies and tabletop gaming and stuff There's plenty of that here. So this is one of those gaming of all types convention. I'm meeting people that develop their own card-based games, picking up some games to try out, talking to some of the role-player people. There's cosplayers wandering around. There's gaming stuff. There's 3D-printed crafts of every stripe, and I'm getting so many great ideas. One trend I've seen, I saw this pop up in Milwaukee, and it's definitely here too, is printing jumbo-sized versions of classic video game cartridges, You know, like Game Boy cartridges, Game Boy Plus cartridges, Advance cartridges, Super Nintendo, whatever, Sega Genesis and stuff. But building like huge size, like 12 inches by 12 inches, basically as big as you could build with a standard build plate. Printing those out, putting some stickers on there, and it feels like just a 4X size game cart of, you know, whatever game was your favorite back in the day. You can print it out and go ahead and put it on the wall. To the point that I think a lot of the collecting for things like NES cartridges, the fun is having all of these things on a shelf on your wall and saying that you have a complete collection and not necessarily playing each of these games. So for me, for a fraction of the cost, you could go ahead and print these cartridges out, put stickers on them, build a whole wall collection for $100, man, versus I saw there was a little Samson for the NES, those that know, know. the cartridge loose was $2,500 and the box itself was sitting there for about $22,400 just for the empty box so the complete set would be around $5,000 so yeah I'm going to go ahead and 3D print that and buy a sticker online and then hang it on the wall and have it and I'll have it in 4X jumbo size so I'm having a lot of fun there there's not a ton of fun there's not a ton of food like the food truck you see at TPF so is this a fun show? totally, if you're in the region should you go? of course Part of the fun, of course, is hanging out with everybody. Spent a lot of time at the Spooky Booth, hanging out there. Bug from Spooky Pinball did a great seminar. He went, it seemed like, for a full hour, just enduring just numerous questions from us in the crowd and just having a good time and being the goofball that he is. They were videotaping it. I don't know where that's available, if that's streaming on the Southern Friday Gaming Expo site. If it is, go check it out. I did make a posting on the Facebook page asking for inappropriate questions to ask Bug, and you guys delivered. I got about 14 questions in there, most of which I could ask in mixed company. So I ran the gamut from everything like, you know, what about releasing two games a year but doing more limited numbers so that, you know, not everything has to be a 2,000-game release? And he said, yeah, that's not a bad idea. And when I followed up with him later, he said, yeah, that may be something that they could do. In my head as I'm speculating, you know, if they've got, say, five titles locked up that are going to be done at this point, you know, if they start building up and, you know, they want to sign new licenses but the licensors don't want to agree to a game that will be four years in the future, maybe they could burn through some of the games they have pending by doing smaller, more limited releases. I think with the way that the market is going, that wouldn't be a bad idea. You know, let's say Looney Tunes, right? It hasn't sold out. TCM hasn't sold out of their 888, I believe, of each run. But what if Looney Tunes only had 300? I think people would be scrambling over themselves to get one of those 300. So if there was a game where they were looking at maybe doing 750 or 1,000 run and probably selling through 70 to 80 of that in the initial announcement what if they just cut those numbers in half and did a 300 to 400 unit run of a game and then really drive up a lot of interest And then the people that would buy those games, because there would still be demand for them, the price would remain high on the secondary market, which would really make you feel like you had something special. And I think for a license that may not be an absolute blockbuster, that would kind of be a cool way to go. You know, what if, you know, instead of 500 Ultraman, there were only 100? I think that would have increased the demand for them post-sale, you know, just because of the rarity. What if there was only 80, you know? So they're thinking about those things. The market is a dynamic, fluid thing. You know, I think two years ago in the height of COVID, the thought of, you know, releasing Halloween at only, you know, 500 units would have been absurd, you know, because they sold out immediately day one of the entire 1250 run. but re-evaluating now and in the sense that you want to keep your line moving I think we might see more releases like that and I think that would be kind of a fun thing rather than seeing one release a year of around 2,000, see two releases a year of around 750, yeah, I could see that they did speak about revisiting the well of doing the double title release thing like they did with TCM and Ludington's and they said that was fun, it's something that they don't absolutely rule out of doing in the future but nothing they currently have any plans to do So that's some good information that came out of that seminar. The whole thing was fun. You know, there was about 25 of us in a room with Bug and the moderator, and it was just a good time just kind of going through the whole history and asking our funny questions and things. So, yeah, so that was a good time. So I'm having fun at the show. I'm about to pop back over there again for round two. The whole homebrew section is really blowing up. You know, Ernie from Trident Pinball is here. Aaron from Fast is here. They have a game that they're going to wire up tomorrow morning, Sunday morning. live. So I think they'll be streaming that. I'm going to go double check, but I'm going to be there in attendance so I can watch them actually wire a game up because for my little homebrew project, my little humble project at home, that's right where I'm at is ready to put the boards in and start wiring things. And so if I can watch how they do it, I think the chances of me blowing a board up with high voltage or myself or my garage is going to be much, much lower. So that will be fun to do. It's fun to play Ernie's games here. He's got the three that he's made so far. Vox Machina is his newest one, which is some Amazon Prime cartoon anime show that I haven't seen. But he's doing something fairly innovative where he's doing a lower play field that is nearly the entire size of a full-size play field under the plexiglass that's there. And, you know, that makes you have to leave the whole top of the middle play field or the middle of the top play field empty. But the way that he's designed it, it doesn't really feel empty. It's still fun to shoot even as it is with the lower play field not fully on board yet. But, man, that's ambitious. You know, who has seen a game that has a lower play field that's the same size as the upper play field and has as much stuff in it and ramps and things? So that's some bonkers stuff. It just shows the creativity of the homebrew people. And I want to be one of those dudes someday that comes out with some interesting, cool stuff. So it's fun. It's fun. We're having a good time. I meet a ton of cool people, especially this being a southern regional show. I'm running into people that don't typically go to TPF or go to Expo. So it's fun. It's fun. So if you're in the region or just up for some more fun, check it out. I kind of want to go to all of the pinball shows, all the regional ones, not in the same year, but as the years go on, kind of rotate myself around so I can check them all out. So, yeah, yeah, this was a good time, and I'm having fun. I can't wait to head back over there. I've even seen Retro Ralph was sniffing around over there somewhere, so I'm going to say what up to my boy there. All right, speaking of my boy, my boy Genghis and I, not only did a We Are Pinball podcast episode yesterday, which is up for free on Spotify. Go check it out. we also recorded a video of that one and put it up on the Retro Jingo YouTube channel so you can even check that out and watch visually if you're a visual learner we dove right into Haggis Pinball and the whole final chapter of the debacle let's call it it's bringing out all sorts of takes from people and I'm glad that we all have the freedom to share our opinions but I think we need to moderate them just slightly I don't think this is – there's a lot of emotion it seems like and not all of it I was expecting. So we recorded that episode. It's out there. Go check it out. But this Haggis whole thing dropped as soon as I finished recording my last show from the road and the Patreon show that I did. Shout out to new member.
    19:36
    But yeah, I think what we're seeing is for me the conclusion of what seemed to be inevitable. You know, once I saw Fathom just missing deadline after deadline and just radio silence coming out from the company, you know, and even in chance, you know, options to reach out to them just going unanswered, I knew something was up. I have mentioned before that it seemed reasonable that anybody that would put down a deposit for Centaur, seeing as how they were just not fulfilling the already existing orders that they had, you had to have known that there was risk, you know. I feel bad for people that had deposits on Fathom because it seemed like a legitimate company at that time. But it seems like, and from what I'm hearing from people, and none of this is confirmed, I haven't met the dudes from Haggis myself, but it seemed like ego was driving a lot of this and just not wanting to reach out and be public about where the company is actually at, what kind of dire straits are going on. Privately, I've been talking with people in the industry, and somebody in that situation, one of the first things I would have done has reached out and said, hey, I need to fundraise. We're out of funds. Here's some new code that we're selling. Here's some T-shirts that we're selling. We're doing a barbecue. We invited some local bands by to try to, you know, raise some money Wayne Stock style, you know, from Wayne's World too. Raise money to save the orphanage, stuff like that. You know, a tournament to try to raise funds to get things going. You know, a Kickstarter or something. You know, something like that. And really it was just like, nope, everything's fine. Here's another empty promise, and that's all that comes out from it. So I've had people take the take that it's not good to beat up on pinball companies. That's not good for pinball in general. What's not good for pinball in general is people essentially throwing money into a pit or being scammed. You know, Deep Root wasn't good for pinball. And I don't think the actions of Haggis was good for pinball, even though a company starting up in Australia would absolutely be a good thing for Australia and a good thing for pinball in general. A successful transparent company in Australia would be good for pinball, would be good for pinball players. Absolutely it would. But an organization without transparency taking deposits on things that they can't ever reasonably ever deliver is not a good thing for pinball. I think beating up on content creators with YouTube channels that happen to unbox games that just happen to show up on the loading dock is not a good thing for pinball either. And this did come up during WAP kind of unexpectedly during that episode. So I tried to kind of rein in Genghis there a bit.
    22:04
    You know, there was some rants from the darker corners of the Internet that our boy, Kerry Hardy, was just shilling for Haggis Pinball, and how could he dare do that, knowing that this company is a scam and telling people to send money there? And looking back and being present for that whole exchange, I don't remember ever seeing solicitation for deposits in exchange for goods and services rendered ever happen. And to be a shill, you know, for a company, you have to be receiving something, you know, back from them that's kind of, you know, part of it. You know, if I was shilling a terrible product, you know, a ShamWow or a Slap Chop or something, you know, something that I knew to be rather inferior and not worth the cost and the hassle but I out there like you know trying to sell them I wouldn be doing that just out of the goodness of my heart It would be because I being compensated somehow
    22:52
    Putting your name on a bogus botanical product or something online in exchange for selling your celebrity to your influencers or something. Yeah, I could see that. All kinds of unethical things like that happen in business all the time. And I believe it's called marketing, right? What I don't believe is that our boy Kerry Hardy there was receiving any financial money from Haggis for telling people to send their deposits that way or receiving any real goods or services. And part of that I know is because Haggis was not doing well enough to be able to offer financial compensation to anybody. They couldn't offer financial compensation to their customers in the form of refunds. They couldn't offer it to their landlords in terms of rent. They couldn't offer it to their distributors in terms of unpaid shipments that were sent to them. So how in the world are they then coming up with Scratch to try to generate funds to give to Carrie?
    23:46
    And I said, okay, well, fine, but he has a YouTube channel. He has some reach, and he put this content out there, and that is a tacit endorsement or something. And let's pull that back a little bit. But, you know, if a Raza had showed up on the loading dock and I was the person standing around there, for sure I would have videotaped an unboxing of that to share with everybody and put it out there. I would have played the game and gave reviews of it and impressions. Yeah, why wouldn't you not do that? Even though knowing Deep Root was a total scam, criminal, in fact, that swindled people out of money, I would still open and show and play the game and give impressions of it because that's interesting content. Wouldn't you want to know that? You know, the only thing I wouldn't do is if it was, you know, being something that was came out by like a violent criminal or something. And we would just completely shun it. You know, but the fact that this company was in turmoil. This is a game. I'm talking about Centaur and which, you know, I think only three in the world were ever made from Haggis. And this has to be the only one that ever landed in the U.S. Yeah. We should look at this thing like a frickin moon rock, man. This thing is rare. It's hardly going to exist on the Earth. There's probably more moon rocks on Earth than there are centaur machines produced by Haggis on Earth. So it's rarer than a moon rock. And so, yeah, I think that's interesting content.
    25:05
    We know now what we know about Haggis. Does that mean if you have a fathom you can never play it again? If you have a fathom you can never stream it? I don't think so. Heck, I played a kelts the other day and took a photo of myself with it and posted it. I couldn't wait to play that kelts because, again, how rare they are and I've never seen one. So, of course, I'm going to do it. but there's a difference between celebrating the art and fellatioing the ego of the artiste, right? It sucks what the Haggis Company did to people that sent them money.
    25:35
    I don't want to victim blame. You had to know there was risk with it, but still, it's a crappy thing to happen. That's no good for pinball, and so I hope the good that comes out of this is that maybe people will really ensure that they have the resources to produce before they go into a venture like this, And it seems like this will also free up the Centaur license to be picked up by another manufacturer somewhere that maybe want to turn and burn on a game that still has some interest in the market. So there's that. So I'm not going to stomp so much on Haggis. I think the actions really speak for themselves there.
    26:08
    And hopefully from the ashes, a reputable game company can emerge from all this. Heck, maybe there's a team out there with the wherewithal to do that, and there may be an auction coming up for some unused products and things, and somebody can grab it and run with it. So this may be an opportunity instead of just a closed door. But you've got to get a better name. What was the deal with Haggis Pinball? Was it because they made Celts that they named the company Haggis to try to stick with that Scottish thing? Is there some kind of Scottish heritage I'm not aware of? You know, was Dimitri from Haggis a real fan of caber tossing or something? You know, who knows? He did have the Red Locks, so maybe there is some of that in there. Never met the guy, and I don't even think I pronounced his name correctly. So there's that. There's Damien. I'm teasing a bit. Uh, let's get onto some other news. Um, I don't want to beat, uh, anybody up over this here, but I just came across the news desk and a new advertisement for Hot Wheels from American Pinball, uh, that they're including what seems to be a topper, uh, for any orders, uh, coming out around now. Um, I'll let you make up your own mind about this, but it looks like, uh, this, uh, it's essentially a Hot Wheels play set that has a big, uh, plastic dinosaur. Uh, actually it's on the top of the Hot Wheels machine at Interium, uh, which is kind of the testing and proving grounds for American Pinball there in Chicago, in Schaumburg at the mall, the Woodfield Mall. Cool place. Go check it out. So they've had this Hot Wheels play set on top of this Hot Wheels there for at least a year or so that I remember. And I remember seeing it and thinking, okay, you know, I guess that's clever. You know, if you have a Hot Wheels machine, you can run on down to Target, buy a play set, put it on top, and there you go, instant topper for $25 to $45. Less on sale sometimes if you bundle it with a Barbie purchase.
    27:48
    So now they're going to include that for a short-term promotion. if you go ahead and buy one. Also, I think you get four additional Hot Wheels cars, so you'll probably have to supply your own zip tie to swap that out. But there you go. If you were interested in Hot Wheels already, here's more incentive to get one, and I'm just going to leave it right where it is there, pat it on the head, and we're going to move on to another topic. Actually, I don't think that's just about it. I was going to talk about Bug Seminar for a while. What else am I doing? I'm going to head back over to the Southern Fry Gaming Expo. We're going to have some fun. What are we doing after that? Well, we might be going down to Orlando, Florida. We might be heading to parts north. I'm not sure yet. It's summertime. We're on a road trip. We can make it up as we go along. We're free to change our plans whenever we do. But the one thing that is certain is I'll keep you guys along for the ride. I've been updating the Patreon with trip reports. If you've been having fun with those and kind of the things that I'm getting up to that aren't strictly pinball related, let me know. I'll do some more of them. It's no problem for me to jump on there. I do like to spread the word about fun things that I do in the U.S. If you do something fun, if you have a local crafts fair you really like, a farmer's market that has amazing food, an Amish market, a cool cave to go discover, and I haven't known about it, I want to know about it. I want to know about swimming holes. I want to know about cool lakes to go play in. So if you have something fun locally that you do, an awesome campground that not that many people know about, share it with the group, and let's explore the U.S. Pinball's all over the U.S., so no matter where you go, if you're interested in a pinball location, There's probably a theme park or some kind of entertainment enterprise locally near it where you can kind of do a couple things at the same time. So that's always fun. Let me know your thoughts. As soon as I get back home, I'm going to get caught back up on T-shirt orders. I know they've been flooding in. Thank you guys so much for doing that. I just need to know what sizes you want, what styles you want, and an address, and then we'll go and get it all fixed up. I have a dream in the future of having a website that can handle all this traffic, and I think it's probably about time for me to get to that. A lot of other projects incoming and more time on my WWE WrestleMania LE. I love it, brother. I love it. All right. Be good to yourself and others.
    29:57
    Of course, you can email me at donsbibblepodcast.com. Get in on this. Go check out the new WAP episode. And if you want to order a t-shirt, I always throw some stickers and stuff in there. I'll be ending the run of the Jaws buckets here soon, but I'll probably still be producing them just for the lulz. But if you want to get one, maybe rush in and order now. I'll do another set and send them out, and that'll probably be the end of the official run of them as we get on to other things. Have fun playing some pinball.