Episode 639: "What if RUSH & GN'R Both Rock?"

Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)·podcast_episode·25m 49s·analyzed·Jan 8, 2022

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Rush Pinball impresses but Kaneda defends GNR's innovation and criticizes both communities for toxic comparisons.

Summary

Kaneda discusses Rush Pinball's debut and its comparison to Jersey Jack's Guns N' Roses, praising Rush's high-energy ramp design and music integration while defending GNR against recent criticism. He argues both machines succeed at different approaches to music-themed pinball, critiques Rush's weak callouts and mediocre artwork, and expresses frustration with Jersey Jack's customer service and quality control issues versus Stern's reliability, ultimately calling for community unity around theme-based appreciation rather than brand warfare.

Key Claims

Rush Pinball has more ramp shot energy and velocity than Guns N' Roses from a gameplay standpoint
high confidence · Kaneda's direct assessment after watching the Rush stream; stated as agreement with community feedback
Stern games play better and faster than Jersey Jack games from a gameplay standpoint
high confidence · Kaneda's stated position: 'Stern from a gameplay standpoint absolutely laps all Jersey Jack games. It just does. I've said it from day one.'
Rush Pinball's callouts are monotone and lack emotion, failing to match the quality of the rest of the game
high confidence · Kaneda's critique after watching the stream: 'I think the callouts are bad. I thought they were monotone, and I thought they lacked all emotion.'
Rush Pinball's playfield artwork is one of the most mediocre packages Stern has released
high confidence · Kaneda's direct observation: 'It's one of the most mediocre playfield art packages we've seen... It feels like a 1970s lunchbox.'
Jersey Jack Pinball has not solved recurring playfield issues and customer service problems from recent launches
high confidence · Kaneda's extended critique: 'They still don't have a solution. They still have not been taken care of... history's shown us there are always issues with a JJP launch.'
Guns N' Roses won every award it was up for in award shows last year
medium confidence · Kaneda's defense of GNR: 'Guns N' Roses won every single award it was up for in the award shows last year.'
Rush and GNR use fundamentally different design philosophies: Rush focuses on song progression mechanics while GNR simulates a concert experience
high confidence · Kaneda's detailed comparison of design intent and execution between the two machines
John Borg designed Rush Pinball with a layout similar to X-Men and TMNT, borrowing elements from Iron Maiden
high confidence · Kaneda's analysis: 'this is a game that looks like X-Men and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (TMNT)... He's borrowed elements from Iron Maiden and other games.'

Notable Quotes

“If you're a Rush fan, you are super happy with this machine. This is the greatest music integrated pinball machine that Stern Pinball has ever made.”
Kaneda @ early section — Core thesis: Rush succeeds in its primary goal of satisfying Rush fans
“Your elation is our elation over on the GNR side. And I just want everybody to realize that is the point of pinball.”
Kaneda @ early-middle section — Call for empathy between fanbases; defines pinball's emotional purpose
“Stern from a gameplay standpoint absolutely laps all Jersey Jack games. It just does. I've said it from day one.”
Kaneda @ middle section — Direct manufacturer comparison on gameplay mechanics
“The thing with music pins is tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people, love these bands. They come to these games with a lot of love, with a lot of emotion.”
Kaneda @ early-middle section — Explains why music-themed machines generate passionate debate
“Guns N' Roses is the greatest light show in the history of pinball. So why are we slamming that?”
Kaneda @ middle section — Defense of GNR's aesthetic and technical achievement
“It's hard enough as a JJP fanboy to defend the very company you love, let alone Stern Pinball.”
Kaneda @ late section — Personal vulnerability; reveals frustration with JJP customer experience
“When you look at Rush, it's not like you're going to a Rush concert when you start a Rush mode or you start a song. It's like you're playing the song.”
Kaneda @ middle section — Key design philosophy distinction between Rush and GNR
“Guns and Roses and Rush—they were made with passion. And games made with passion, you can tell. You can feel it. It comes through the entire package.”
Kaneda @ late section — Frames quality as passion-driven; contrasts with Led Zeppelin's perceived lack thereof

Entities

Kanedaperson John Borgperson Tim Sextonperson Eric Meunierperson Ed Robertsonperson SlashpersonAxl Roseperson

Signals

?
product_strategy: Stern (Rush) chose concert-simulation-through-gameplay mechanics focusing on song progression and ramp energy, while Jersey Jack (GNR) chose concert-venue-immersion with synchronized light shows and cinematics. Both successful but representing opposing design approaches to music theme integration.
high · Kaneda's detailed breakdown: 'When you look at Rush, it's not like you're going to a Rush concert... It's like you're playing the song' versus GNR's approach to 'teleport you as if you're at a GNR show.'
?
product_concern: Jersey Jack Pinball has systematic, unresolved issues with playfield durability, spotlight failures, and customer service responsiveness. Multiple units owned by Kaneda's friends have experienced problems without resolution, creating negative goodwill despite game quality.
high · Kaneda: 'I've been very frustrated seeing me and all of my friends who've owned one having all of these issues. They still don't have a solution... history's shown us there are always issues with a JJP launch.'
~
sentiment_shift: Post-Rush-reveal community sentiment shows Rush fans attacking GNR's quality, demanding GNR fans acknowledge Rush superiority. Kaneda argues this is tribal fandom behavior unwarranted by objective facts, as both machines succeed at different design goals.
high · Kaneda: 'people couldn't just enjoy Rush. They had to say this game is great and GNR sucks... I do think we need to stop with this sudden newfound hate for Guns N' Roses'
?
product_concern: Rush Pinball's voice callouts are weak, monotone, and emotionless despite band involvement in studio direction. Kaneda questions whether band members should do callouts or professional voice actors should handle the role.
high · Kaneda: 'I think the callouts are bad. I thought they were monotone, and I thought they lacked all emotion... Ed Robertson, you might not want to leave your day job'

Topics

Rush Pinball gameplay and designprimaryGuns N' Roses vs Rush Pinball comparisonprimaryMusic-themed pinball machine design philosophyprimaryJersey Jack Pinball vs Stern Pinball quality and customer serviceprimaryCommunity civility and toxic fandom in pinballprimaryPlayfield layout design and ramp mechanicssecondaryPinball artwork and aestheticssecondaryVoice callouts and audio design in pinballsecondary

Sentiment

mixed(0.55)— Kaneda is enthusiastic about Rush Pinball's success and energy, appreciative of Rush fans' joy, and defends GNR's innovation. However, he is critical of Rush's execution (callouts, artwork), frustrated with Jersey Jack's service issues, and frustrated with both communities' tendency toward toxic comparisons. The tone is frustrated-but-hopeful, seeking community unity while making hard truths about manufacturing quality and design tradeoffs.

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.077

I'm glad Rush Pinball is exciting Rush fans, but we need a little reminder of what high energy rock and roll is. I mean, come on. Greatest vocalist ever. Women actually like this music. Can we all get along? Need more of a reminder? Let's let it play for a little bit. We're going to talk about Rush on this episode of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Let's hit it. Can't we all get along in the pinball world? Maybe that toxic figure Kaneda is the reason why we're all so divided, but I want to give you my feelings on Rush Pinball. We saw a Tim Sexton, playing the game, John Borg was in chat. What do I think of this pinball machine and what kind of impact do I think Rush Pinball is going to have in the pinball world? I want to start out by saying this. I watched the stream for like a half hour. I couldn't take any more. It's not because they were doing a bad job. It's just watching pinball for the length of a Lord of the Rings movie is not how I want to spend my Friday night. Here's my feeling, first and foremost, from a macro level, I want to say the most important goal was accomplished. If you're a Rush fan, you are super happy with this machine. This is the greatest music integrated pinball machine that Stern Pinball has ever made. Is it the greatest music integrated pinball machine of all time? We're going to talk about that because it's going head to head with Guns N' Roses. You must be walking away from this stream being like, thank you so much John Borg that you were able to convince the people over at Stern that we should take a chance on a band that's not at the same level or caliber of what we usually make, which are more mainstream hits like ACDC, Metallica, Aerosmith, Rolling Stones, The Beatles. So this was a little bit of a roll of the dice and it has worked out beautifully, especially if you're a Rush fan. And I want to say, as I was watching the stream and I was seeing Rush fans so excited about this pin, I honestly mean this when I say it, I'm excited for you. I want you to get your dream theme and I want your dream theme to be made amazing into pinball format. What you're feeling when you look at Rush is how Guns N' Roses fans feel when they play Jersey Jack Guns N' Roses. Your elation is our elation over on the GNR side. And I just want everybody to realize that is that is the point of pinball. We want themes we love and we want them to be brought to life in a way that excites us. And I'm going to explain why on this podcast. I think dream themes that hit it out of the all-time prom抽 Euan Alesen, Ti нъоу şek50 Fore Store in Spain, mercoleday 8 Same Time, To make you happy in the pinball world. And I've been saying this to people. Imagine how free and liberating it is when you get just a handful of dream themes and then you're done. You don't have to buy everything that comes out. You don't have to chase the FOMO. You don't have to keep shuffling games in and out of your game room because you're just happy with these games because these games mean a lot to you. And I saw a lot of Rush fans with that kind of elation, with that kind of emotion saying, I can't Non-agogue runtime allestake 안 Shooting вариант Trungzan28 vulner aspect researchers � ling cultivated Subscribe AnimeC conoshtldCulturaodieDeslyn böyleActual quelqu� por triedpart The same is true in pinball for me. If I love pinball and I love music, I'm only going to buy pinball that's based on music if I love the music because there's so much other pinball out there that I don't have to hear Iron Maiden if I can't stand them. I don't want to have to hear Rush if I don't love them, but I'm happy fans of Rush are getting their pin. Now, let's talk about the other thing I saw all throughout the chat last night which was probably the most annoying thing and that is people couldn't just enjoy Rush. They had to say this game is great and GNR sucks. I heard a lot of that like the comparison to Guns and Roses and I'm going to talk a lot about this on this episode because I think the comparisons are somewhat fair and I'll tell you why they're somewhat fair because Stern learned a lot from and what JerseyJack did with GNR And both bands were involved heavily in the making of their pinball machines and that is why the comparisons are happening and so we going to talk about these two machines and how they compare now before we do that it all subjective if you love your GNR that what pinball is supposed to do if you love your rush that what pinball is supposed to do that the thing with music pins is tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of people that love these bands they coming to these games with a lot of love with a lot of emotion with a lot of The game is a game of passion and that's why this debate happens. Nobody is going to go to like fathom with that love or emotions. No one's going to go to Legends of Valhalla and care at all. No one's going to go to games like Ultraman and have that same level of passion and that is why music pins, they really do spark such debate and spark such animosity and love at the same time. So what did I think of the game? Well, it's a John Borg game. It's a John Borg layout and it shoots phenomenally well. John Borg knows how to make a game shoot with high energy and satisfying shots because we've seen this layout over and over and over again. And he's made a few changes. He's tweaked some things. But for the most part, this is a game that looks like X-Men and Ninja Turtles and he stole the little stuff from Iron Sp yaz素 Inst validate for such challenges and Do you know any of those teams that are doing fan layouts work? Why does Brian Eddy keep doing fan layouts? They know that fan layouts are very satisfying to shoot. The thing is this, Stern Pinball does not take a lot of risks, they don't take a lot of chances, they don't want to mess with the formula that they know satisfies so many people out there and I can't blame them. I really can't blame them. Now, I'm going to go to the other side of the fence, the Jersey Jack comparison. What I do like about Jersey Jack Pinball is that each of their games are really different. and the game's feels radically different. And if you collect each JJP game, you can put them in a lineup and they're all radically different. But if you collect Stern machines, I think you're going to see a lot more similarity in gameplay. You just are from a layout standpoint. So the game looks like it shoots phenomenally well. It has a lot of energy to it. And I think the energy of the gameplay coupled with the rush music is a home run in this game. It really is. And I saw one indictment of G&R I'm going to talk about it now that says this game has way more rock and roll energy from a gameplay standpoint than Guns N' Roses. And I'm going to tell you right now on Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, I agree with that. I agree with that and there is more energy and there is more velocity and there is just a lot more flow happening in this game than Guns N' Roses. And if there's one thing Jersey Jack Pinball needs to do, they need to understand that. I'm not going to sit here and defend the fact that GNR does play slower, that GNR has more shots much closer to the flippers. Stern moves stuff back more on the playfield so you get a lot more energy in the middle of a Stern game. Look at Rush, the entire middle of that game is wide open to create lanes and speed for gameplay. When you look at Guns N' Roses, like that scoop is pretty much like halfway down the playfield and all of the shots are much closer to the flippers, a lot harder to create flow that way, a lot harder to see where the ball is going at the top of the playfield. So Stern from a gameplay standpoint absolutely laps all Jersey Jack games. It just does. I've said it from day one. Now, the Pat Lawler games play better and I think this is something Eric Minier needs to work on on his future Can каких果inMark, Ham cognate at Netflix ark.com,겠elesignboard, Dan Blocky Biden, Onnuxxx, and I will say that time machine that time machine does not create the level of awe that the ring did in Lord the Rings. It just doesn't have that impact and there aren't any toys in this game that are really doing anything that interact with the ball or feel like a wow moment and I would say that from an overall standpoint there's nothing happening in this game on any level other than the code the music and the integration of it all but I just mean from a The game is a very physical standpoint. There's nothing physical or visual to look at that's a wow. There's nothing happening to the ball that's a wow. I would say, you know, there's no real crazy magic from a mechanical standpoint in this game. And that's going to be fine for Rush fans because, again, I think music pins are different than movie and TV pins. I think music pins are more about the music and more about the energy and more about teleporting the player into the world of that band. And I think this game does it tremendously. I was looking at the game and I was like wow this game is kind of just like Guns n' Roses in which they're using a lot of concert footage I think they learned from the J.J.P. launch of GNR how to really integrate but they're very different and I want to explain what the differences are when you look at Rush It's not like you're going to a Rush concert when you start a Rush mode or you start a song It's like you're playing the song and that's a huge huge difference and guns and Roses Machine is really set up to teleport you as if you at a GNR show and everything happening in the game is synced up with the song perfectly And I mean that Like the light shows and the way they timed it with each song that the real magic of GNR That not what happening at Rush When you play Rush they tapping into more of the energy of the song itself and the shots are syncing up with you progressing through the song Completely different strategy and again I think both of them execute at that approach very very well And they're different and it's okay that they're different and I applaud the fact that they tried something new but you gotta give Jersey Jack credit for showing Stern how to properly make a music pin. and everyone can agree you could argue back and forth between guns and roses and rush the good news is this we all agree that Led Zeppelin sucks because it didn't do any of that and Led Zeppelin is going to go down as probably one of the worst music integrated pinball machines ever especially now that we saw how they made rush okay so that's a good thing right sometimes it's good that we can we can cross the divide and get along because we all don't like one thing and that's Led Zeppelin Pinball okay so I think the gameplay is great I think the music is great. I think the concert footage is great, but one big letdown from last night's stream I think the callouts are bad and I thought they were monotone and I thought they lacked all this emotion and and after watching that video of how Ed was in the studio with them guiding them through the callouts I will say this Ed Ed Robertson you might not want to leave your day job and become someone who directs people in the studio for callouts because it's just not there like the energybagp 384 eks Phillip Co��ya Uhh se help more 1918東 bat Delhi Bahi watergate Why Abầ�i Fede and it's almost like would you rather have the band members do callouts that aren't good or have voice actors who know what they're doing do callouts that actually make the game better that's an interesting debate I don't know because I kind of feel like these callouts are letting people down um the other part that I would say is a letdown is the art and there's no way around it every time I was looking at the stream I couldn't help but feel like Stern missed a golden opportunity here to make a playfield really be as beautiful as the rest of The game is one of the most mediocre playfield art packages we've seen and you can't change it. I see people already saying they want to try to put a sticker over those three characters. Come on, you really can't do that. It's not going to work out. And it's surprising to me that they missed on the artwork so badly because when you think about it, John Borg has seen what Yeti's done and Christopher Franchi and I would have gone and got a much better artist for this game. There's just something about it. It feels like a 1970s lunchbox. Do the I do encourage all of you out there that were talking smack about GNR saying it's just a box of lights. Go watch a Guns N' Roses stream and put it next to Rush. And I think we need to stop slamming Guns N' Roses for being just a box of lights. And here's why. Because it is so much more than that. And if you don't think so, then you've never really played the game and you don't even understand the rules of Guns N' Roses. And the other part is this. Guns N' Roses is the greatest light show in the history of pinball. So, why are we slamming that? Guns N' Roses won every single award it was up for in the award shows last year. Why are we now saying it's a terrible game? I'm going to explain why I think people turn so much against Guns N' Roses, but why? Why do we do this? Does a game that does something incredibly innovative stop being innovative a year later, just because it's made by another company? and I think we need to stop with this. I think we need to stop with this like all of a sudden newfound hate for Guns N' Roses and it's okay for you to love Stern and love Rush but to not give Eric and Slash credit for what they created. Guns N' Roses aesthetically, aesthetically is so much more beautiful than Rush. It's not even funny when you put them next to each other and I just want to say that like both of them are great in their own way and it's okay to say that but I was just seeing a lot of genius and table tung underestimate einznos v préparkeẺ Raza InterviewerRaza accidental dismiss estructural battfax take tag예요Thats Отepoffice track dome tool Hundеч Debbie Open cool liner echoFindbiminύhy I'll see how hard it is. The last point I want to make when I was watching the stream last night is I do think Stern has a tendency lately to get a little too over complicated with the code and what's going on. What I like about Guns and Roses is the simplicity of it. You're at a concert and you're starting a song and you're trying to get to the encore, get all the way through the song and get your jackpot. Now when people complain about GNR having too many multiballs, it's because they don't know how to play the game. The whole point of playing the game and the whole point is to not get booed offstage stage and so you hitting different shots to stay on stage and get the crowd going it awesome it simple and what I like about it they don interrupt the concert footage very much when I watching rush the annoying thing about it there just too much popping onto the screen like every three seconds like every time you hit anything it goes to a different screen ball save I got an owl here I looking at a golf course I 在 situations pelo que no bedro ya, aun inst trails, one weeks ley, also the layers that lessaviego, j解화 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, eng impresario, mechanics xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx hUp pegarawaisut slowly, anastasia вечeri a n or것 It's not that enjoyable because you're seeing all that stuff break up the band singing the song. And that's why Guns N' Roses is so geniusly coded is even when you're watching someone play GNR, you feel like you're at a GNR concert and the code and the animations and the things popping up on the screen don't disrupt the concert footage. So do me a favor, go back and look at the Rush stream and tell me if you're watching someone play Rush, it's not enjoyable. And it's weird to me because the player can't enjoy any of those You can have a deep game that has a lot to accomplish, but it can be very easy to understand. And I think JNR does that pretty well. I'm not sure about Rush after watching the stream last night. You Rush fans have a great pinball machine. I'm super happy for all of you. You're not going to be able to find an LE if you don't have one because after the stream Titanice, Per charmato Closed Caption 08 Ant mixคน Malboro, Schultz Therm, Harrit�eyfer rapport with Geralist Carlos Rojas, the Student discord knowkuw, arcade, Easy coin, Minecraft경ero, Playician tspiceeka Auledinuzufego Edwarsiko, All of their customers to pound sand. So it's hard enough as a JJP fanboy to defend the very company you love, let alone the Stern army. And how can you blame Stern fans for taking shots at JJP? Every three to four months, Stern comes out with a new machine. The machine is usually high quality. They stand behind their product and they don't stop, right? They just keep going. Without Stern, pinball would be so boring. Now, Jersey Jack is needed in pinball. and the pinball machine and Jersey jack has forced stern to get better in every single way and that's great but Jersey Jack also just gives their fans headaches nobody wants to wait two years for the next game nobody wants to have playfield issues nobody wants to have spotlights breaking nobody wants to be treated the way JJP has treated people over the last year and I think that's the hardest part right is I love guns and roses as a pinball machine but I've been very I'm very frustrated seeing me and all of my friends who've owned one having all of these issues and they still don't have a solution. They still have not been taken care of and I think JJP just struggles in the goodwill department. Like it's really hard to go to bat for them after everything they've put their customers through and it's in their court, right? It's in their power to turn the tide, but they haven't and they haven't told us they've solved any of these issues and that is why if you're You're buying Rush Pinball, you don't have to worry about playfield issues. You're just going to get your game and enjoy it. And if you have an issue, Stern will help you out. I can't say the same thing for Jersey Jack owners. And I'm really nervous about their next title on whether or not there are going to be issues because history's shown us there are always issues with a JJP launch. Now, can we all just please get along? If you love Guns N' Roses, great. If you love Rush, great. I love that both of these machines exist. I want every single theme that is and pinball form to satiate the fans of that theme. Both of these games do that. My condolences to everyone who owns a Led Zeppelin. You have nothing special in your possession. I don't care what you say. Led Zeppelin was not made with passion. It wasn't. Guns and Roses and Rush, they were made with passion. And games made with passion, you can tell, you can feel it. It comes through the entire package. And I want to congratulate everyone for getting a Rush Pinball Machine if you ordered one and I want to congratulate the team at Stern for making this game. You know how to make people happy. Do I think these games are worth the prices? No, they're not. We all know that. These are not worth the prices. Stern is completely fleecing all of us, but nothing I say is going to change that. And if it makes you happy, we only live once. So don't listen to me. Buy what makes you happy because guess what people? We're all going to die. Have a great day. Kaneda out. We interrupt the end of this Knapp's Pinball Podcast for two things. First, I want to give a shout out to MJK Plumbing, Mr. Michael Kastner for being a club member and we are at 354 club members. Take us away Axl Rose.