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Episode 204 - Barrels of Activision

Eclectic Gamers Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 29m·analyzed·Oct 15, 2023
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TL;DR

Barrels of Fun Pinball revealed with Labyrinth; new competitor threatens Spooky's boutique dominance.

Summary

Eclectic Gamers discusses the surprise reveal of Barrels of Fun Pinball, a new Houston-based boutique manufacturer launching with Labyrinth as their first title (1,100 units at $10,600). The episode explores the apparent exodus of Spooky-affiliated personnel to Barrels of Fun, questions about competitive positioning in the limited-run licensed game market, and concerns about Spooky's future licensing capabilities and build quality relative to this new competitor.

Key Claims

  • Barrels of Fun is using the FAST board set and not developing their own pinball board

    high confidence · Dennis states directly that they have not developed their own pinball board set and are using the fast board set

  • David Van Ez (Barrels of Fun CEO) secured Rick and Morty, Scooby-Doo, and two other unrevealed licenses that were originally intended for Spooky

    high confidence · Dennis cites an interview with David Van Ez on the Aussie Pinball Podcast (Dr. John) where Van Ez claims he got these licenses for Spooky

  • Labyrinth production run is up to 1,100 units but may be cut short if demand is lower

    high confidence · Dennis states the limited 1100 is an 'up to' and 'if the plan is if they don't have enough demand to actually make and sell 1100 labyrinths they'll cut the run short'

  • Approximately 600 Labyrinth units have been sold based on distributor order numbers reported online

    medium confidence · Dennis notes 'Someone had reported their order number, and it appeared like they were at least at around 600 sold'

  • Bo and Karen were blocked on Spooky Pinball's business social media page

    high confidence · Dennis states 'Bo and Karen said noted online that spooky pinball had blocked him on their business page'

  • Spooky has moved to a three-tier pricing model (Pro/Premium/LE) similar to Stern

    high confidence · Dennis: 'Spooky is like doing three tiers now, just like Stern'

  • Spooky's first game (America's Most Haunted) had a very limited run of 150 units

    high confidence · Dennis recalls 'they started with 150 America's Most Haunted, and it took them up until, what was it? Was it Rick and Morty where they finally crossed 1,000 units on a single build?'

  • Barrels of Fun's Labyrinth will be playable at Pinball Expo

    high confidence · Dennis notes 'they have these, not all of them, obviously, but some of these are already built. It will be at expo. It will be played.'

Notable Quotes

  • “Barrels of Fun, one of the worst pinball company names I have ever heard but an excellent logo”

    Dennis @ early_segment — Sets tone for discussion of the new manufacturer's branding; critical of company name but appreciative of visual identity

  • “I'm not here to play guessing games... Your little games to try and build up hype for a company when you're not even revealing what the name of the company is going to be is a waste of my time.”

    Dennis @ mid_segment — Establishes editorial stance against mystery manufacturer teaser campaigns; reflects broader media criticism of hype-building tactics

  • “They've done almost everything right for a new company reveal... they've launched with a licensed theme, smart, one with deep-seated nostalgia, very smart.”

    Dennis @ mid_segment — Acknowledges Barrels of Fun's strategic market entry despite criticism of their teaser approach

  • “My wife is a huge Labyrinth fan... She was super excited just by all of the how the play field looked, how all the toys were and the call outs and everything that there was just tickled her fancy as a Labyrinth fan”

    Tony @ mid_segment — Indicates strong thematic execution and fan appeal; speaks to successful IP integration

  • “If Barrels has better build quality, I really wonder [what that means for Spooky]”

    Dennis @ late_segment — Articulates core competitive threat: if Barrels matches Spooky's licensing appeal but with superior reliability, Spooky loses differentiation

  • “It's not working like it used to for Spooky. Their run counts are – [incomplete but indicates declining performance]”

    Dennis @ end_segment — Suggests Spooky's market position is eroding even before Barrels entered; indicates trend data on production volumes

  • “I think it's very interesting because one of the things I have praised spooky on for a very long time is they have been, in my opinion, extremely smart with their licensing”

    Dennis — Acknowledges Spooky's historical strength in IP acquisition strategy now threatened by competitor who may control key licenses

Entities

Barrels of Fun PinballcompanyLabyrinthgameDavid Van EzpersonPhil GrimaldipersonEric PripkepersonBopersonKarenperson

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Bo and Karen blocked on Spooky Pinball's business social media page; speculation about internal conflict, ownership change, or creative direction shift at Spooky

    medium · Dennis: 'Bo and Karen said noted online that spooky pinball had blocked him on their business page' followed by speculation about Charlie vs. Bug leadership and personnel conflicts

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinball Expo expected to feature significant number of new game reveals and playable machines; Barrels of Fun planning to have Labyrinth available for play

    high · Dennis: 'there might have as many games as was at texas that were new... Labyrinth will be at expo. It will be played.'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Barrels of Fun entering market with similar licensing strategy to Spooky but at comparable price point with apparent quality focus, threatening Spooky's boutique differentiation

    high · Dennis: 'I'm curious about the future of Spooky in part by having a manufacturer that's coming in around the price point that the Spooky games I believe are at at this stage... if Barrels has better build quality, I really wonder [what that means for Spooky]'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Barrels of Fun emphasizing detailed custom sculpts and thematic cohesion over flat plastics; strategic IP selection (Labyrinth) with deep nostalgia appeal and cross-demographic appeal

    high · Dennis and Tony note 'multiple sculpts that are involved and they really sort of stand out... it's dripping labyrinth' and Tony's wife's enthusiastic reaction to thematic execution

  • ?

    licensing_signal: David Van Ez (Barrels of Fun CEO) reported to have secured Rick and Morty, Scooby-Doo, and two unrevealed licenses originally intended for Spooky, indicating possible shift in licensing control

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.269

0:00
Welcome to the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Today is Sunday, October 15th. This is episode 204. I'm Tony. I'm Dennis. We're back. Back again. back is back i don't know the song sorry back back back is it just back this is the word back a lot it's all right it's all back back it's back there i had it it's all right anyway we got we got a lot of serious content actually we got a we got i mean this is bad maybe good depending on i mean the listeners might like this i'm i'm just not looking forward to editing it the so because we've got we just randomly stop like halfway through video games it's just because we're just It's just like, bleh. Yeah, we can talk about this stuff next time. Yeah, I mean, there have been some huge, huge things, huge news in the video game space, but we also have a plethora. I don't know how many in the plethora. I think at least three video game reviews. A plethora? Would you say we have a plethora of reviews? A plethora.
1:17
That reminds me. I actually had someone posted on – I don't remember which feed it was, but since it was my birthday a few days ago, Zach, my co-host for the pinball show, had made a post where he was going to do a giveaway of a shirt if people would pick one of their favorite Dennis moments, one of their favorite phrases I said or comebacks or anything along those lines. So anyway, someone on one of them had said, my favorite part is every time Dennis says modern as modern, which is honestly probably all the time that I say modern, not modern. I was put the R first. This is one of those. I don't know if I can blame that as a Midwestern thing. That made me start thinking, what other weird pronunciations do I have? The one I know about – it doesn't come up in podcasting, so it usually doesn't get pointed out is I don't say stir. I say steer like cattle. Yeah. For like if you're making chocolate milk. I say you steer it. You steer it. Yeah. So anyway, Modrin is another one I do. Modrin, which is – when I read it, I go, no, I do. Yeah. No. You get a thing about it. No. Yeah. No, I do it. But anyway, what's been going on? It's been a couple weeks, so we'll get through intros. Immediately after our last episode, my whole family ended up with the plague, and we were down for the entire week. Just regular vanilla plague? Regular COVID plague.
@ mid_segment
Spooky Pinball
company
Charlie Emeryperson
Bugperson
Spooky Pinball personnel (unnamed)person
Dennisperson
Tonyperson
Brian Savageperson
Dr. Johnperson
Pinball Expoevent
Stern Pinballcompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Chicago Gaming Company (CGC)company
Multimorphiccompany

medium · Dennis cites Dr. John's Aussie Pinball Podcast interview with David Van Ez where 'he got them for Spooky. He got Rick and Morty. He got Scooby-Doo. He got them two more that haven't been revealed yet'

  • $

    market_signal: Barrels of Fun Labyrinth pre-sales approximately 600 units reported from distributor order tracking; successful launch for new manufacturer

    medium · Dennis notes 'Someone had reported their order number, and it appeared like they were at least at around 600 sold, which is, for a new manufacturer, I think very, very good'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Multiple personnel previously affiliated with Spooky Pinball appear to have moved to Barrels of Fun, including individuals with licensing, design, and code expertise

    medium · Dennis notes 'a lot of people who were with spooky are now with barrels' and speculates about Bo and Karen's departure; David Van Ez interview mentions securing licenses originally intended for Spooky

  • $

    market_signal: Spooky adopting three-tier pricing model (Pro/Premium/LE) similar to Stern, creating pricing confusion; Barrels of Fun using single-tier model with optional upgrades as simpler alternative

    high · Dennis: 'Easier understanding buying experience with barrels of fun, not doing like this bloodsucker. Spooky is like doing three tiers now, just like Stern. Right. It's confusing.'

  • ?

    announcement: Official reveal of Barrels of Fun Pinball company and Labyrinth pinball game with full specifications, pricing, and production plan

    high · Labyrinth announced with 1,100 unit production run, $10,600 price point, four multiball modes, magnets, multiple sculpts; designed by David Van Ez, rules by Phil Grimaldi, code by Eric Pripke; using FAST board set

  • ?

    product_strategy: Barrels of Fun positioning as collectibles manufacturer beyond pinball, using contract manufacturing (FAST board), and limiting production run to build scarcity/hype

    high · Dennis notes 'they are not positioning themselves as solely a pinball manufacturer, but rather a collectibles manufacturer', using FAST boards, and 'they've decided to do it limited to help build the hype'

  • ?

    product_concern: Spooky Pinball's ongoing build quality issues despite claimed improvements; explicit contrast drawn between Spooky and Barrels of Fun as potential differentiator

    high · Dennis: 'if Spooky hit solid build quality on some game at some time, it would be great... But even to now, even with their newest games, you still hear about build quality issues'; notes transition away from hot glue but continued issues

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community perception of Spooky Pinball declining; 'cute' boutique positioning no longer resonating; 'puss in boots' brand appeal wearing thin

    medium · Dennis: 'It's not working like it used to for Spooky... people have started to lose their cool with the whole we're boutique and we're the little guy, little cutesy, blinky blink eyes, do the puss in boots look'

    • 2:49
    Yeah, I knew you, because you told me you had one member in the family that popped positive. Yeah. The vid. With the vid, and it ended up being, I mean, it wasn't bad. It wasn't like last time we had COVID. Well, now that you all have antibodies. Yeah. It was basically exhaustion for the week. It was like be awake for a couple hours, sleep for a couple hours, be awake for a couple hours, sleep for a couple hours.
    3:16
    But overall, it wasn't all that bad. I haven't done much of it. I've played zero Baldur's Gate. I've only played a little bit of Battletech. I've not played anything else at all. I've mainly been reading, listening to audiobooks or watching TV is what I've been doing just because everything else required too much energy during that week. And in the week since then, I was trying to catch up because we had everything at work, and I missed five days of work two weeks after having been on vacation, so I still wasn't fully caught up. Oh, yeah. So it was just a giant mess. I spent, you have to understand with my job, the paperwork and office time of my job is about 50% of my day. But I was so far behind with stuff that I ended up spending two straight days basically never leaving my office, just trying to get caught up because of how far behind I was on stuff.
    4:14
    So, but it was, that's it. That's it. I haven't, I've not done much of anything. I'm, I'm, I'm still burning through my physically reading battle tech novels. I'm almost to the halfway point of the 60 original classic battle tech novels. I'm at like 50 or I'm sorry, I'm on 26, uh, is the one I'm reading currently. Uh, and then like on audio book wise, I've been listening to Bernard Cornwall's sharps series of books, uh, which if you have no idea what that is, And basically, Bernard Carnwall, the author, really enjoyed the Horatio Hornblower books and the Aubrey Martin books, which most people might know the Aubrey Martin books because that is the basis of Master and Commander Farsight of the World, the Russell Crowe film. but he realized that nobody had ever made any books set in that time frame that dealt with an army officer. So he wrote them himself starting in like 1981. And the newest book in that series comes out like in two months. So he's still writing books in that series.
    5:31
    But he like has written the books in a weird chronological way. like he wrote books from 81, uh, until like the early nineties that were like the major big things and sit like up through the end of sharp's career. And now he's been writing books that take place between those books. Cause all of those books have years between them. So, uh, it's been interesting going through. I've always heard good things about, I've heard really good things about the TV show, the British TV show about it too. but I've not watched any of it yet. That was one of Sean Bean's things. He played the titular Sharp in the Sharp shows. So that's basically what I've been doing. So what about yourself?
    6:20
    I have been playing some games. We actually had – no, I had, I should say. I think it was on Pinside. I don't know if they – they didn't ask to – since they messaged me directly, I'm assuming they don't want to be named, so I won't. But they messaged us right after, I think the day we dropped the last episode, and very nicely, essentially asked, why do we talk about esoteric video games? Why are we not covering like the real stuff was sort of the way it was phrased. And it's like, well, it's a it's a fair complaint. The issue is we're not playing something. We can't really review it. Right. And we're not going to just play popular stuff because we do a podcast. So that's kind of the boat that we're in. Now, I actually do like mainline games. It's just I don't usually buy them at release. So now, all that's to say, I did get Starfield for my birthday. I have started it, so I will talk about Starfield as I make more progress. However, I'm only approximately two hours in right now, and in a game like that, I can't. You have to do a tutorial. Yeah, I'm not even done yet. I haven't even gone back to my ship with a new crew member. Like, I can't even tell you what that's like yet.
    7:26
    But it's coming. It's coming. The dragons are coming, and so is the Starfields. However, because I did yesterday complete the Resident Evil 3 remake, when I play Starfield, whenever I see a star, I go, stars.
    7:42
    So, which every time I saw a zombie in Resident Evil, I said, stars. I just say it really fast because there are a lot of zombies. Yeah. So I realized, as I know I am with pinball, very obnoxious while I'm playing this, which is good that I just am in the living room by myself playing games. So I've started Starfield. I started Sniper Ghost Warrior Contract 2, which is another video game I also ended up getting. I got two. Those are the two I got. So I've started them both. And yesterday, actually, because I haven't been doing much pinball, I actually went downstairs and played quite a bit of pinball. I played multiple games of Walking Dead, multiple games of Deadpool, multiple games of Godzilla. I think I only played one game of Star Trek because I got past Kobayashi Maru on the one game. I was kind of like, you know, let's go and play something a little harder. I've got this one. I'm good. That one went all right. And again, the obnoxiousness continued with Godzilla because every time the ball drained, I screamed with Godzilla. Plus, I was swearing at Mechagodzilla. Anytime I drained, it was Mechagodzilla's fault. Even when it wasn't the Mechagodzilla shot, somehow Mechagodzilla screwed everything up. Yeah, that sounds like him. It was pretty toxic. but what wasn't toxic is since our last episode we have two new patreon members both at the intermediate tier level so thank you very much much thank you that's because i'm getting ready to say w thank you very much william m and scott e who are both now patreon supporters so that is pretty much it in terms of the intros though one other little piece we're going to get some video game reviews i this was my fault we had i mentioned how we didn't have any reviews and we have all these steam codes out we did have pending reviews in the egp email i just completely overlooked them because they were so far down in the email list i just didn't when i quickly did a cursory glance it just didn't click for me so we have a number of them that we're going to cover today but i am here to announce that we have no more steam codes they have all been given out so we are finally done with that we are just waiting for the rest of the reviews to come in to us but we will get to those reviews when we hit the video game segment first we need to hit the pinball segment and oh boy uh normally when with pinball expo it feels like there's like one reveal or one first time hands-on experience that people are going to have when it comes to expo like when we were at expo it was cactus canyon remake that was the one new thing and it was actually revealed there so kudos to that but this go around holy cow is there going to be a lot of stuff if there is a pinball expo that i could almost wish i was going to be at it would be this one simply because they might have as many games as was at texas that were new maybe not quite not new to us because texas had a few things that had shown up at other shows that we hadn't been able to play yet like scooby-doo like queen but let's start with the big one and that is there is a new pinball manufacturer we've been hearing when rumor corner was cornering we were often talking about these new manufacturers that were going to be unveiled this year the big one that has finally come forward is barrels of fun pinball one of the worst pinball company names i have ever heard but an excellent logo okay i was gonna say you you have it doesn't matter that the name is very mid as the children like to say i i am this is one of the worst names in the pinball field and tony's like it's mid as the kids like to say as they do yes but also as the kids like to say their symbol is fire. Yes. The exclamation point with a flipper and a ball. Very clever. As soon as I saw it, my very first thought is, how did nobody ever think of this up until now? That's so good. It is. So good. And speaking of good, they are coming out of the gate with, in my opinion, a very strong nostalgia theme. Oh, they're swinging hard for the fences. my wife is actually interested oh well not purchasable but is well but but but but watch the trailer and was like squealing in glee yeah no this so barrels of fun pinball not only revealed their existence we've known about their existence for a while they've been the mystery yes okay now We haven't talked about the Mystery Pinball Company on this show because I don't approve of those sort of reveal because they're not a reveal. I don't approve of these teaser. It's fine for forums.
    12:13
    You can debate whether or not we as an entertainment podcast or media or not. We're not journalists. That's for sure. But I'm not here to play guessing games. So every time they emailed in, Tony doesn't know about the emails because I would just delete them. It's like this is not news. Your game, your pinball game when revealed will be covered, and we are about to dive into that. Your little games to try and build up hype for a company when you're not even revealing what the name of the company is going to be is a waste of my time. Yeah, that is – it reminds me of this thing that has become popular lately of putting out teasers for teaser releases. Like here's the teaser to let you know that tomorrow we're going to release the trailer. Stern kind of does that. They always have that teaser where it basically reveals nothing about the game other than the name, like on a Thursday. And then the following Tuesday is when they do the teaser trailer, which doesn't show you any gameplay, but just shows you close-up shots of the stuff on there.
    13:14
    Yeah, I mean, I don't mind them doing teasers. It's just a lesson to future mystery pinball companies. If you're not ready to reveal anything yet, you don't need to put us on the email list. We're not here to play games with you. You can do that on the forums. If you want to play games with people, like Turner Pinball did the same thing. They had these guessing game things, but Turner kept it to the forums. They weren't like emailing Eclectic Gamers, hey, figure out this anagram. I'm like, no.
    13:44
    How about no? That is not the purpose of a podcast. I am not your PR marketing tool, and I'm definitely not playing a game with you.
    13:55
    Not the right strategy. I'm not your buddy, guys. I'm not. I'm sorry. No. When you're ready to talk, we can have a conversation. And they're ready to talk now, so we're having the conversation. Yeah, that works. Now, it's too bad that somebody, while they were playing the game, didn't register the trademark for Mystery Pen Ball Company and then start attacking people. Well, that's my registered trademark for my company name. You're stolen. Had they named it Mystery Pinball Company, I'd still have ignored all the emails, obviously. But have more respect. See, that would have been a better name than Barrels of Fun. Roll out the barrel. Barrels of Fun. Look, who really cares about the name of a company? All I'm saying is Barrels of Fun sounds like super, like, 1930s. That's the Barrels of Fun. I've got the name. I'm like, no. Your logo is too modern and hip and cool for that name. but again it's a name who cares what now they're coming being barrels of fun their company jingle you know has to be a polka it's required you know what it might be they haven't emailed us the guess the genre of of music that barrels of funds theme music theme is let us know maybe we can vote on it on facebook and the winner will win a free labyrinth coaster so labyrinth hit 80s film david bowie starred along with uh i don't remember the girl's name i should because she went on to do a lot of other stuff in it yeah a bunch of fraggles it also starred a bunch of fraggles or okay not technically fraggles but jim henson uh puppets were were a big feature of that game uh this release is a limited run but not particularly small it's 1100 units price of the game is ten thousand six hundred dollars there's only one tier of game however they are selling additional add-ons like you can buy an alternate trans light you can buy a shooter rod there's a topper for sale so they've done the one model with optional kind of upgrades that you can get with the game uh some of the features of the game are one of the things that i think caught most everyone's eye when they've looked at that is there are multiple sculpts that are involved and they really sort of stand out. Like we're not looking at flat plastics. It feels like they're really trying to capture the world of Labyrinth. The game does feature four multi-ball modes. It does have a couple of magnets employed. I know it's got some other stuff. There's a link in the show notes to a Knapp Arcade article discussing what is in the game or what was known, at least as of the time of that article. So I encourage you to just go and read that. We're not going to regurgitate it all here because I've not seen gameplay yet. So the design of the game is by David Van Ez, who is the CEO of Barrels of Fun. And the rules have been done by Phil Grimaldi, who, as I recall, is a fairly well-known competitive player. And then software by Eric Pripke, who has done pinball code before, I believe.
    17:02
    Some of these names, we'll get into this in a little bit, but I think some of these names have been, are associated with Spooky. And there are other names that were associated with Spooky that are at Barrels of Fun but aren't in that quick summary of the Labyrinth specs. Companies based out of Houston, I believe, in Texas. I was thinking Austin, but that's multimorphic. So, Tony, you mentioned your wife was really excited when she saw the trailer for Labyrinth. What are your thoughts? It's Jennifer Conley. Thank you. I had to look her up because I couldn't remember. As soon as you said that, the name left my head.
    17:40
    Yeah, no, my wife is a huge Labyrinth fan. I like Labyrinth. Labyrinth is a great movie with fun music and a very interesting storyline that I think is a wonderful idea for a pinball machine. And I do think what they've shown looks amazing. I'd sent her the little teaser trailer that just kind of did the light reveal. And then we sat down And watched the actual trailer That showed some gameplay And as a massive Labyrinth fan that she is She was super excited Just by all of the How the play field looked How all the toys were And the call outs And everything that there was Just tickled her fancy As a Labyrinth fan So she really liked that Obviously I'm not going to get one But it's probably One that if I Could afford and sneak into the house Would not get I probably would not get the Discussion That other ones might Warrant But overall Considering The whole first game out the gate from somebody that nobody never heard of until they made the announcement. It looks amazing. I mean, it is a swing for the fences just amazing looking machine. Now, there is a I don't have the link in the show notes. I just pulled it up though to get some information.
    19:22
    Jennifer Connelly is not in the game. I'm not surprised by that. Okay. You are her. You are the one going through the labyrinth is the idea. So that's how they've approached the game. These are remarks in a forum post by Brian Savage, who is the chief business officer for Barrel of Fun. A few other little pieces they noted. Part of the reason about the naming of the company is they are not positioning themselves as solely a pinball manufacturer, but rather a collectibles manufacturer. So they do plan to do other products, not just pinball machines. somewhat I think thus unsurprisingly they have not developed their own pinball board set they're using the fast board set and the limited 1100 is an up to if the plan is if they don't have enough demand to actually make and sell 1100 labyrinths they'll cut the run short and they'll just do however many now I don't know how well it's gone I have read some reports because there are several distributors that are doing these, but I haven't had a conversation with Zach yet. He is one of them, but I don't know.
    20:30
    We haven't recorded, so I haven't had a conversation with him about it, other than I've seen some people noting online that it seems to be having sold fairly well, as in it sounded like the numbers are in order. Someone had reported their order number, and it appeared like they were at least at around 600 sold, which is, for a new manufacturer, I think very, very good. Yeah, this really, you know, my judgment about their little mystery stuff coming into us aside, they've done almost everything right for a new company reveal. And you can tell, I feel, that the people involved with this have done this stuff before, that they've been involved in pinball before. Because they've launched with a licensed theme, smart, one with deep-seated nostalgia, very smart. They're not trying to reinvent the wheel by creating their own board set. They're using an off-the-shelf board set, smart. They've decided to do it limited to help build the hype, smart. but they're actually doing a fairly large build as well, or up to. I am curious about the manufacturing. I am too, because the thing that it says is if you're willing to go to 1,100, again, I just have to think back to Spooky. And remember, they started with 150 America's Most Haunted, and it took them up until, what was it? Was it Rick and Morty where they finally crossed 1,000 units on a single build? Because Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle was fewer. TNA was initially 550, and that was their top seller up until, I think, Rick and Morty. But I don't know if Rick and Morty crossed the thousand. Halloween did. But they had been at it for years. So to come out here and say we going to get 1100 built and I not done enough research on this I not done any research on this To be able to say whether or not they building this in or they if they doing a strategy like how Penbrough Brothers has where they now own them but they were using Pedretti manufacturing to do the builds They've since bought Pedretti is my understanding, but using contract manufacturing.
    22:37
    So yeah, with all the sculpts and stuff, the game just – it looks – it just is dripping labyrinth. and while this $10,600 is not cheap, they've definitely not overly priced their positioning versus their competition in the market. Yes, the Stern Pro is a $7,000 game and it's significantly less, but you know when you say Stern Pro that we're talking flat plastics and limited mechs and at least looking at this, like with the magnets and all the custom sculpts, well, I'm assuming they're custom, but they're sculpts, they're not flats. Right. So with all the custom sculpts and everything, It looks like it would be a premium game.
    23:20
    So when you see the 10,600 and you think, well, how much is it to buy a CGC remake? How much is it to buy a Stern Premium? How much is it to buy a Spooky? Not ridiculous. I mean, they've clearly made sure they came in well under JJP pricing. Yeah, no, for sure. It definitely, like you said, with everything that appears to be there, I think it's a solid price point. it's not one of the ones where I'm looking at it and going, why is this so expensive? And another smart thing of the company, they have these, not all of them, obviously, but some of these are already built. It will be at expo. It will be played. Very smart. So very good job. Barrels of fun on, on almost all fronts. Really? Other than the, the silly buildup part until they were teasing labyrinth, which that's, that's fine. That's understood. other than the company game guessing stuff. The only real mistake I could point out to them or that I feel exists is they're based in Texas. That is not where you should be basing as a pinball manufacturer. I agree. But it's not – again, I believe it's Houston. It's not a bad – again, I don't know if they're doing the bills themselves. But if they are, not the worst labor market to – like they have a – kind of like how Multimorphic with Austin is. It's not Benton, Wisconsin, where no one lives. So they have a labor pool is my point. To be fair, I've been in Houston in August. It is the worst place on the planet.
    24:51
    I'm just saying I think it makes more sense to be in an area where you can have access to labor that's familiar with the construction. If you're constantly needing to, you know, this is like a long-term play and stuff. But if they're using contract manufacturing, for example, that may be moot. probably would be. But anyway. Valid. But they at least placed themselves in a large labor pool market, which is smart. So that one's sort of an eh. That's an iffy one for me. I'm not sure. Because I just don't, excuse me, I just don't know enough. So let's talk a little bit, because we'll have more to say on Labyrinth when we see gameplay and when we get to play it. But let's talk a little bit more about the company. A couple little, I wanted to throw out just a couple little queries to you, Tony, because, you know, people, it's pinball. it's fun but people love their pinball drama so let's ask a couple of the drama questions that i think are probably in the backs of people's mind seeing all the names all the people like bow and karens and such talking about this company you know being involved in some capacity it seems talking about barrels of fun it sure seems to me like a lot of people who were with spooky are now with barrels why do you think that is I definitely feel like there's a running theme there And I think it's people who got into the manufacturing They got into the design They got into pinball And they still wanted to be there But they did not like where they were And after situations changed They found someplace else to continue doing what they want to do and what they love.
    26:32
    So, yeah, no, it definitely had a noticeable, huh, moment when you start to realize just how many people had been involved in one group and are now like, hi, we're here now. Right. Now, I could just see, you know, people are wanting to go their own creative way could be an argument. But one of the things that sticks with me is a few weeks ago, Bo and Karen said noted online that spooky pinball had blocked him on their business page. which I didn't really care about. And I still really don't, but because it doesn't involve me, but it makes it sound like that either here, there, there are two running theories I've heard about this and, you know, and maybe neither of them are true. One is that Charlie doesn't run spooky anymore. And bug now being in charge, bug has brought in his own people that he wants to work with. And it's not these people. And so these people have made another pinball company because they still want to do pinball stuff and spooky. Just it's a different it's basically different ownership. Right. The other possibility is that they were not so much a change because of the owners in the sense of, yeah, I, you know, I want to work with this person, this person, this person, not my dad's people. But instead that stuff wasn't going well at Spooky or there was conflict like it was like they tried to make it work and it didn't. And these people left and didn't leave happily. Right now, I'm not saying they started barrels of fun as a revenge company. I think anyone thinking that is reading way too. That's way too much work. But regardless, I think the comparisons are going to be drawn because there's so many people that have been associated. And I don't even think it's just with Spooky. I think people are going to ask themselves, given the reaction of Labyrinth, what does this mean for Spooky, which has very good themes? And incidentally, I'm not all the way through it yet, so I can't commentate fully. But Dr. John, who we've spoken with from Australia, he has a podcast, the Aussie Pinball Podcast. He has an interview with David Van Ez, and I'm not all the way through it yet. But according to David in that interview, some of those licenses, he got them for Spooky. He got Rick and Morty. He got Scooby-Doo. He got them two more that haven't been revealed yet.
    29:02
    Wow. So that does help explain how they have Labyrinth. That does. Because he knows how to get licenses. is what that so but interestingly how's spooky's license game going to be in the it sounds like they're okay for the next game or two and there's already some speculation though that they're going to pull the halloween ultraman on their next game that it's going to be two with the same layout that could be these last two licenses we don't know we don't know anything right i have no idea but i think it's very interesting because one of the things i have praised spooky on for a very long time is they have been, in my opinion, extremely smart with their licensing because they've gone ever since America's Most Haunted and, you know, contract manufacturing TNA aside, they've really leaned on licenses. And you might say, well, Alice Cooper and Rob Zombie aren't the strongest licenses. And that's true. But they also weren't very large runs. Right. And they very much fit into the kind of license aesthetic that Spooky was about. In all honesty, Labyrinth could make sense as a Spooky license. Oh, sure. It could have. So I'm curious about the future of Spooky in part by having a manufacturer that's coming in around the price point that the Spooky games I believe are at at this stage. Right. Definitely easier understanding buying experience with barrels of fun, not doing like this bloodsucker. Spooky is like doing three tiers now, just like Stern. Right. It's confusing.
    30:32
    And their licensed person or a person who at least has claimed at least partial credit on securing some of their licenses in the past is now not with them. So is Spooky's license game going to be able to hold up? Because, I mean, I was like, wow, Scooby-Doo, great license thing. But, I mean, you've got the barrels of fun CEO saying, yeah, I got it for him. Yeah. Well, and you also have to wonder how much is it going to hurt Spooky if the new boutique in town that's doing the limited runs of well-licensed games right out of the bat, the machine already looks amazing, but if we're also looking at solid build quality. I'm not even saying amazing build quality. Right, right, right. That was where I wanted to go next. Solid build quality.
    31:25
    I mean, if Spooky hit solid build quality on some game at some time, it would be great. It would be game-changing for them if their build quality wasn't trash. But even to now, even with their newest games, you still hear about build quality issues. Yes. And they've been working on that. Well, they claim they've been. I mean, they did finally move past the hot glue era. It took them, I mean, no one else was doing it that way. It took them years. And they're not just wood screwing straight into. I mean, yeah, it's an excellent point, Tony, because let's just say that the license game is on par between Barrels and Spooky. But if Barrels has better build quality, I really wonder. because people have started to lose their cool with the whole we're boutique and we're the little guy, little cutesy, blinky blink eyes, do the puss in boots look. It's not working like it used to for Spooky. Their run counts are – Spooky, to a lot of people, myself included, is probably the number two manufacturer in the game right now because JJP's licenses are total misses at this point. And CGC can't put a game out to save their lives. And so you've got Stern doing Stern stuff, and then it's like, what else is there? But, you know, I'm doing a lot of these spooky comparisons because some of these names were with spooky, but it's not just spooky. What does this mean for American pinball? American, we don't do licensed themes because our leadership says that the original themes are where it's at. Pinball. Well, we've both been on the same track with American that they are on very thin ice at this point. And I think having another, somebody else come in and, I mean, not played it, not seen gameplay, but I can tell you right off the bat, there is no way that Labyrinth has less interest than Galactic Tank Force.
    33:30
    And I know that it's been indicated that American Pinball does have licensed titles in the works again, because they've only ever done one, Hot Wheels. Right. But I feel bad because we say this every year, and we're not at our year-end review yet even.
    33:49
    So I'm not going to say it about American Pinball. Everyone can just read between the lines. With how this market is and how much cooled off it is now that people are not staying at home all the time like they were a couple years ago, there is not enough room in this hobby for this many manufacturers. Some of these have to go away. I mean, when you think about it, you can tell people are like, wow, pinball is getting really hot in like 2021, 2022, because now all of a sudden there's Turner Pinball. There's Barrels of Fun Pinball. There's the French company that made the weird Pepto-Bismol game, Pinball. You know, the Pinball Brothers got spooled up and started doing their thing.
    34:28
    There's not enough room for this many manufacturers, in my opinion. You could argue there is if they can all live on smaller margins. but like no one including barrels of fun is coming close to stern pro pricing the closest that there is is pinball adventures and it's still above it's still above uh stern pricing for americans at least right so and there's some talk of course about home pin and the game that will follow spinal tap being beneath the stern pro price but that company also has the worst build reputation you want to talk about like if spooky wants to point out they're better than anyone at build quality it's home pin and not to mention that home pin has a reputation for games that are not for pinball players by their owners own statements and by and large aren't seen as very fun games my point being there's just too many there's just too many and they're not going to be able to seize the share of the market like the only way it works mathematically is they take stern's pie they have to take it from stern slice of the pie and i don't think they are barrels of fun is not going to cannibalize Stern sales to a significant degree. It could cannibalize American Pinball, Chicago Gaming, Spooky. That's who it could call up because that's where they're priced at. But anyway, it's very, very interesting. So thank you, Barrels of Fun, for revealing Labyrinth so we had something to talk about. We do have other items though, Tony, in the pinball space. I've talked a little bit about Stern and their slice of the pie. Well, Stern is continuing to show that they bake more pies than anyone else with a couple of re-releases. so it's so telling when their re-releases are larger than most people's releases so uh first one i wanted to go ahead and note is elvira house of horrors stern's perhaps main title of they just struggle to build them and yeah i've i've had this theory for a few years now that cern hates building elvira house of horrors like dennis nordman's design and i know they changed it quite a bit but uh it's just like too hard for their line curves or something i I don't know. It's weird. But didn't they just kick out like two years ago another limited edition? They did the 40th anniversary of Elvira. Yes. Those were like kind of a call for pricing. Like the dealers got to set whatever price they wanted. It was kind of – I think a lot of people – or at least this was – let me not say a lot. To people like me, that was Stern trying to give dealers a cash – that was because that was when a lot of the production was really – they were at full throttle. Supply chain issues were really complicating the amount of games they could put out. So dealers didn't have to try to sell stuff. It was just sort of like, there was only so much product though that they weren't necessarily max, they were maximizing what revenue could be had, but it wasn't as much as the demand was for. So that seemed like a game where they're like, here you go, dealers, set your own price, build some padding in and make some decent money because we know that like, we're not giving you enough pros to make what you should be making on those. That's how I kind of read it. Well, this will be a 500-unit red armor version called the Blood Red Kiss Edition. Aside from having red armor on the pinball machine, the thing, I'm not seeing images of it, but is much like Munster's Premium originally. This is supposed to be black and white art.
    37:49
    I'm assuming including the play field. I would assume. Anyway, okay, so there's that. A fun game, but I'm sure it'll be too much. and then this one when I told you I was talking to Tony or communicating with him and I said oh yeah well Stern's got the re-release and Tony didn't say Elvira which is the one I was thinking of immediately he goes oh yeah no the Stranger Things rerun which is also true yeah so Stern is finally I won't say this is the worst kept secret in pinball but in conjunction with the final season they have finally announced that Stranger Things is going to get more units built.
    38:29
    Who knows when the final season will come out? Who knows? But the pen will come out before that. So this will please a lot of people. Stranger Things was one of those games that when it came out, there was a lot of disappointment, I think, for two reasons. One, people were hoping for not a fan layout for Brian Eddy's return to pinball. and the Demogorgon had a lot of mechanical issues when it released. They had to recode the game basically so that turning it into a bash toy because it was just so inconsistent to actually feed the Demogorgon because you're supposed to shoot the ball into its mouth and it just was really hard to do through no fault of the players. But that said, once the UV kit stuff came out and that art and the light show and all of that stuff happening, people started to get into it And as the rules developed, people thought, you know, much like his other fan layouts, like Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars, people were like, you know what? This is actually a lot of fun. It was. So it ended up being one of those games where they didn't make as many as they should have to satisfy where demand ultimately ended up.
    39:36
    So this will be the opportunity, unlike some games where there was never a recovery on that. In this instance, there is. So there will be the opportunity. So if you're interested in the game, just FYI about that. moving on to another manufacturer tony pinball brothers we touched on them a little bit briefly uh earlier well he's talking about re-releases they're revisiting the well and that ain't the well of queen it's the well of the highway pinball hit game that they have been making all their money on hits a strong for highway it was their hit because it sure wasn't full throttle you remember full throttle i do i remember that it had all sorts of problems and eventually was removed from the place, the 403 Club, because it just didn't work half the time. Yes, the ball always just sat in the shooter lane.
    40:25
    Anyway, Pinball Brothers has announced the Ellen Ripley version of Alien. Well, I have another link to Nap Arcade. He has an article about this, so you can read up on it. Remember when Highway Pinball revealed Alien, what was the big complaint? Why is there no scenes with Sigourney Weaver? Where's Ellen Ripley? Yep. Well, okay. Now there's going to be, with the Ellen Ripley version of Alien, there will be new code, which features new clips. There's new art. There's a new translate. I think it's her in the loader that, you know, get away from her.
    40:56
    And I'm making the sound of the army things rotating. Yep. Some new sculpts on the game as well. They indicated this is a limited run, but not a specific limited count. So I guess that's a for a limited time only sort of build thing. And so we see this in wristwatches sometimes. Pricing at this time is unknown. In the article, it was kind of a I'm going to describe as a mealy mouth response to the question. How much is it going to be? Because they talk a bit about like, well, there are changes that they've got in the production and stuff. So anyway, I'm sure it'll be more, but they're not saying. And it does also sound like some of these elements will be purchasable by existing owners. I don't know which. The way the article reads, it sounded more like the physical stuff, like maybe if you wanted to buy the Translight or maybe buy one of the new sculpts to put in the game. I'd say the smart play, this will annoy some people, but the smart play is to allow the clips to be purchased as a DLC.
    41:57
    So a code update. Right. Because a lot of people probably just want it for the clips. So anyway, I'm not sure if this is going to be at – like I think Alien will be at Expo, but I don't know if they'll have this version there. But anyway, FYI. So a company revisiting the well because we talked about earlier this year when they did the price reduction on the Queen run. I don't think Queen is doing well for them. I don't think so. And so I think while they're getting ready for whatever their next title is, I think they're leaning on Alien because it's a stronger performer.
    42:33
    Speaking of companies with strong performance issues, JJP, Jersey Jack. So this would normally be – if this was a normal episode, this would be the part where you would say, of course, the reveal is going to be right after we come out with the episode. Typically. And that's true in the case of JJP. They have confirmed they are revealing their game at Expo. And we do like barrels of fun for putting the release immediately before we record. Thank you. It's never happened before. Yes. It's very exciting.
    43:09
    So Jersey Jack is going to be there. They're going to have their new game there. This one you could go ahead and throw in Worst Kept Rumors of the World, that it is Elton John. Steve Ritchie is the designer. We'll see soon, obviously. what are your thoughts I mean I know a lot of people are excited about Steve Ritchie having a game ostensibly with no budget constraint or no severe budget constraint like he that he was always getting the short end of the stick and this is a narrative I believe he's kind of presented right at Stern like that the BOMs were just way too limiting he couldn't do what he wanted to do I didn't listen to the interview that he I think he had on pinball profile with Jeff Teolis but as I recall a summary of it. He was dogging a lot of people that he worked with at Stern. And I like saying, how can you have a Led Zeppelin game without Stairway to Heaven and stuff?
    44:03
    Which is fair. I think it's a fair complaint. It is. But this is definitely going to be a money where your mouth is sort of thing. Because here's my problem. As much as, and for a long time, Steve Ritchie was my favorite designer in pinball. I still really enjoy it. I mentioned Star Trek earlier. I think Elwin is a better designer now that Elwin's designing. I like Richie's games. Here's the thing. It's Elton John. Yes, he's iconic. Yes, he's got great music. But is it a pinball theme? Is this... Because I'll get your opinion, Tim. I'm going to throw mine out real quick because it's really, really easy. I think this theme is a miss. I think this game is not going to do well And if you want to know what do I mean by not do well I mean I think it does better than Godfather did but not as good as Toy Story 4 and that means all three of these games didn't do as well as JJP thought they would that's what I think hope it clears my time to dance and if I'm going to be a tiny dancer bash toy I'm going to dog this game you're probably going to be dogging the game but I really like Elm John I just, I'm not huge on music pens to begin with. It's one of the reasons that I actually really like Foo Fighters is because it doesn't feel like just a concert pen or just a bunch of references vomited onto the thing. It feels like it's got its own kind of little story thing built into it. unlike, say, Elvis or Rush or Zeppelin or Guns N' Roses.
    45:46
    We'll see. I am having a very hard time bringing myself to care about music pens anymore. You're not alone in that. And who knows? Richie, because it's going to come down to gameplay for me. So Richie could end up really putting out something that is a lot of fun. I have liked a lot of his games. Yeah, he's made some really good games. It is really the BOM that's held him back recently because I felt that Richie's last good, really good game was probably Game of Thrones. And I think you maybe could have an argument that Black Knight's sort of rage, at least it had some creativity to it with especially the knight toy and stuff and how that game shot versus his usual stuff while still being pretty flowy. But otherwise, it's been like his games haven't done well in quite a while. So I'm curious about that. However, we just got to face a number of things that I think are facts. And the fact of the matter is that for a guy who's known for speed and aggression, Elton John seems like a weird pick to assign him. Granted, he did Elvis in the past, but one looks at that layout, and I don't think he is a fan of his layout on Elvis, and goes it's also pretty weird versus what he normally seems to want to do. Right. And that I cannot fathom JJP dropping their prices. So it's still going to be at the minimum $12,000 slash $15,000. And you've got to consider all this other competition. All of it being cheaper. All of it.
    47:13
    Barrel of Fun, cheaper. Spooky, cheaper. Stern, cheaper. Chicago Gaming, when Pulp Fiction maybe eventually ever comes out, cheaper. I mean, it's just... Well, yeah, but that'll be three years from now. Sure, but it'll be cheaper. because they set this pricing like based off of the peak of the pandemic and are either too proud or too desperate to change it. Yeah. I don't know how that's going to play for them. It's just not going to be well. Anyway, so we'll be able to talk more about that one on the next episode. A few other items in pinball, Tony. We have some other expo stuff I wanted to just touch on really quick since that's the big show coming up. dutch pinball apparently they are planning to be there they are bringing the big lebowski's but not a new game they've been starting to talk up that they're going to have a new game but apparently they're not revealing it there so fyi turner pinball we talked a little bit about them because they played games guessing games on the forum when they turner pinball is the company that acquired a lot of the deep root assets right so ninja uh eclipse we saw the white would have that at Texas. Apparently Ninja Eclipse is going to be at Expo. I have not read up on this. I have no idea if it's any further along or not. I don't know. I'm assuming I would hope that it is. You would hope it's been six months. But I don't know. And then finally Pinball Adventures, we touched on them briefly when we were talking pricing earlier. They are the ones with Punny Factory. They have been planning and still are planning to bring and reveal fully elements their next game, their second game. So Again, there are a number of things that are happening at Expo. We will not be there. Nope.
    48:59
    Last element, pun somewhat intended, of the pinball section is we had a request from Colin. He emailed us at collectedgamerspodcast.gmail.com. He is the gentleman behind the kineticist who wanted us to cover a couple of things. Apparently, I think he's planning to put an article together. So they've been contacting people in the pinball media, especially podcasters, sort of asking for what do we love most about pinball and what are our current top five pinball machines so that they can do a write up. And some of the other shows have have done this. So I figured we might. I mean, it's an interesting request. We might. It is. So love. Let's start with love. Love.
    49:42
    Barrel. That's your next license. Do it. I will say that would be very good. I will also counter not as good, but could be fun if done right, is Little Shop of Horrors. I don't think there's space in this hobby for musicals. I don't.
    50:04
    I could see why, given what happens in it, why you think it would work as a pinball theme. I think it could work as a pinball theme, but I think in terms of sales, Princess Bride is better than Little Shop of Horrors. And in fact, Princess Bride is much better than Labyrinth. Princess Bride would be huge. Because Princess Bride actually holds up. I think Labyrinth holds up. I think you haven't seen it in a long time. It's been less than six months since I last watched it. I think you mistakenly watched Princess Bride and thought it was Labyrinth because it was in the wrong case. No, no. That's what I think. That codpiece isn't anywhere other than Labyrinth. That's what I think. I'm deeply waiting for codpiece multiball.
    50:53
    Okay. So what do you love most about pinball? We'll do that one first. For me, it's really split into two things, both of which are probably the most common things in the world about it. But just pinball as a hobby. I like the people. And I like the social aspect of going to a pinball bar or a restaurant or somewhere where there's pinball machines and interacting with other people who enjoy pinball in that way. And that also ties into the thing that I love about it is because of its physical nature as opposed to pure digital. Just like the reason that I love motorcycles and the reason that I love watches. And it's because it's an intricate mechanical device, and that really makes me enjoy it more than something that is just a purely digital toss-together type thing.
    51:57
    Those are pretty good answers. Yeah, I guess if I were to say one thing, I'm going to generalize it even more and just say I think what I love most about pinball is there was just was and is so much that you can learn about it. So like you can learn about how to play it. You can learn about how to compete with it. You can learn about how they work. They have this rich history, which, you know, I mean, a fascinating history because of the whole tie in with the gambling and all in the mafia talk. And this thing that was kind of counterculture and then evolved into almost like a kiddified space of things that just like video games and then evolved again into something like people who want to push back against just digital entertainment. And so there's just been so many ways you can engage with it. Like being able to – using pinball allowed me to get out and socialize. As an introvert, I don't do that a lot. So that, you know, branching out and doing something I wouldn't normally be comfortable doing, Pinball gets credit on that. I didn't know a lot about electronic mechanical repair stuff. I learned a lot working on Pinball machines. You know, I used to write Pinball articles going into the history of it because it was so, I like history and learning that this hobby has a history. And it's not one that, like, you know, you can find out the history of Atari everywhere. But going in and learning more about Ted Zale or learning about the street-level experiment that Gottlieb did, there's just so much stuff about it. So I just think it's multifaceted and being able to take it. It's small enough and niche enough that you can dive in, and it's not as impersonal. like the if you want to know about the past you can reach out to the creators and they by and large they're happy to talk to you about it they're happy to provide their insight and their knowledge because people aren't beating down their door for all this stuff now sometimes do i think people go overboard within it absolutely because like any hobby some people get kind of obsessive and then we hear the same i feel like because it's so small now i'm gonna whine a little bit but I sometimes we we celebrate the same stuff a little too much and ignore an awful lot about what's actually there there's a lot more especially on the history side there's a lot more richness to pinball than people realize it doesn't all have to be about the shot that saved pinball and uh you know the the greatness that was Williams in the 90s there's a lot more to it than that right but um but hey that's uh it's it's fun to do regardless so top five current top five pinball machines okay real fast let's just alternate and we no particular order let's just say it like that godzilla yeah godzilla's my on mine as well attack from mars attack from Mars is on mine as well.
    54:58
    Adam's family. Absolutely not. Whoa. Wow. I didn't realize you were such a plebe. Star Trek, Stern. I could see that. What's that, four? No, we just did three. That's three. Well, if you're doing Star Trek also. Well, no, no. I'm just trying to. I lost count. You did Adam's attack. I did Adam's attack. And meh.
    55:24
    Medieval. So now you did Attack twice. That's an interesting choice. I've never hidden my enjoyment. Walking Dead.
    55:34
    Also a good one. Great. Also a good one. Even though I just talked about how much I dislike music pens, I'm going to go with ACDC.
    55:49
    Get Away, High Speed 2. See, that would have been the next one on my list. Okay, there you go. There's five. Have fun with that Yep I'm going to play But I threw Adams in there It's probably because I played a bunch of Adams Everyone has I know But it's still fun I still enjoy Putting quarters in Adams I don't like Adams very much I like the call outs I hate having to go In the mansion all the time It's the same two shots All over the place Because I mean Adams has been at Nubs forever And I still put Multiple quarters in it Every time I go there I can't even say that Adams is just two shots To get a high score Competitively Adams has two shots to do everything. Right.
    56:28
    But that doesn't stop it from being fun. Lame. Write in and click the gamers at gmail.com and tell us what you think. Please tell me how wrong I am.
    56:36
    All right. I mean, they might side with you. I mean, it did sell like 20,000 units. There are probably a few fans out there. And I will actually play it. I don't hate it. But it is. It's like if we were to ask you to pick your favorite EM and you go and say Grand Prix. It's like, okay, so you don't actually think about pinball. You just say stuff. Grand Prix. My favorite EM.
    57:07
    I mean, I really want to say Campus Queen. You could. Why not? That would be unusual. but at the same time there's a lot of good ones see I like Grand Prix but I don't think I'd put it at my top I like it but I wouldn't put it at the top of the list the listeners won't know what you're talking about if you don't say Grand Prix because they don't know anything about EMs either sorry you all but you don't I like Cinegrin no the R is interesting I would say sing along Sing along is a good one That's why I said it Very enjoyable It has its moments The moments where they But it is a music pen so you probably hate it I named a music pen Yes but you were reluctant To name it No I was pointed out the fact that I was Being mildly Just a little bit A hypocrisy with a hypocrisy the Obama of hypocrisy now can you imagine that as a musical pinball machine I would love that as a musical pinball machine that's my favorite musical yeah I don't know how the slavery triangle trade song multiball is going to go I'm not saying it would sell anything hit the left ramp for the whip crack Oh, there's the salt Peter scoop.
    58:48
    What's in these boxes? Oh, but just think of how fun the leaves of old Virginia would be. Yeah, that one, that one probably go pretty well. That would have to be a wizard. You have to hit all the shots for all the Lees. Yeah, it would have to be a wizard mode. Here, a Lee. Shoot another one. There, a Lee, too. There, a Lee. Everywhere, a Lee, a Lee. So, video games.
    59:18
    We have a number of reviews. Oh, my gosh. We just want to alternate reading of the reviews. Probably.
    59:27
    Because how many did I put in? I think you put in three. I hope only three. Yes, there are three. Thank you for getting the reviews in, folks. We do appreciate it and hope you enjoyed your Steam codes, even though most of you didn't enjoy your Steam codes. I can tell. Well, that was because they're really bad games. Well, I thank the person again who provided us the codes and they apologized for how bad so many of the codes were. And I was like, well, I mean, someone got doomed, so they weren't all that. so anyway matthew v has submitted his review of steam code which i will now read amer zone is that how we set is that our mer zone amer zone amazon prime oh sorry all right amazon the explorer's legacy is now available on steam and originally released in 1999 on CD-ROM. This is going to go great. It harkens back to the days where hearing your CD drive spin up was a warning shot of things to come, for better or worse. Hammer Zone drops you off on a path with an anchored view of your surroundings, leaving you with just your mouse to pan in all directions, revealing an arrow cursor for movement. Using tile system movement, each click can bring you from scene to scene to explore point and click within minutes you find yourself a visiting writer at a creepy lighthouse talking to an old man rambling about the land of amazon and how the white egg needs to be returned then abruptly his dialogue tree and and or his life ends i couldn't tell which as i was too busy ransacking through his life's work and possessions looking for clues this reveals his original travel notes and journal which become a reference point on your quest to complete a final adventure he could not in the game you move through several different chapters slash environments on your quest in its simplest form the game boils down to searching an area for any clues or objects to interact with and trying them all in combinations for an unknown result if you're stuck check the journal for handwritten clues the journal itself was really well done but you are literally looking at hand sketches and notes written in cursive.
    61:50
    At times, some of the handwriting can be hard to read, but it almost adds to the experience. To progress between chapters and locations, you use a craft called the Hydra Float. Think steampunk slash transforming inspector gadget vehicle. This transition mechanism becomes one of the puzzles of the game, as you need to find info and configurations to successfully dispatch between locations. when the black excuse me that was on me that was not in the writing that'd be impressive i could cut that but i don't think i will because i think it adds to the ambience tony's just like great covet again this transition mechanism becomes one of the puzzles of the game is you need to find info and configurations to successfully dispatch between locations which i think i already read. When I see stuff like this, I'm reminded about the limitations of the day. There are many aspects of this game that brought to its full form where it would remind me of something as elaborate as the Bioshock series. I'm guessing with my own lack of experience, the puzzles in this game are very simple compared to other games of the genre. You never have more than two to three things in your inventory and they reset between chapters slash locations. This avoids the mass complications a large inventory could impose. The game at times feels like the root idea is there, but there wasn't time or ability to execute on it. In some instances, what looks visually like it could be a complicated mechanical puzzle is just clicking the same input multiple times. Peak difficulty is only encountered when you realize you missed an item, forcing the backtrack of the ground to eventually find an intractable just beyond. I think he meant interactable. Oh, no, he wrote that. I just misread it. To find an interactable just beyond the viewing angle of your mouse. What it did right? Cool environments, although the graphics now show their extreme age. The art and story concepts are there and strong, even if unfinished. The handwritten notes and clues are great and feel like a forgotten art. Video animations often rewarding puzzle competition. I bet we're pretty and poor. I bet. Let me reread all of that. Video animations often rewarding a puzzle completion. I think he means completed. It does say competition. This time I'm sure I read it right. I bet we're pretty rad. Back in the day there, I needed to get the pretty rad delivered properly. What is it wrong? some areas of the game feel completely unfinished or empty grab a small scratch of grid paper for when a random slideshow or beachfront forest has you feeling lost interface is clunky slit your throat now if you need an inverted viewing angle on a modern system you can't leave tab out or view any other application while the game is running wow that's bad all in all i can't give a straight recommendation to play this game it is however an interesting snapshot of its era for those interested. I'd recommend checking this out as a history piece, as it only takes a sitting or two to complete. I played the entire game on a single day off, and I think I could probably finish it before lunch on a replay. On a final note, while looking to post this on Steam, I noticed the community talked about Siberia. It turns out this game and the world is a precursor of sorts to that series. Amorzone has many interesting ideas, but they feel primordial. The Siberia games, I believe, were met with acclaim, so I may check them out next in some form to see where the creators went with their conceptions. I have heard good things about the Siberia games. Yes, but have you heard good things about Amorzone? Amorzone? No. They should have re-released and updated this and called it Amorzone Prime.
    65:45
    Sure. Okay. And now a review from Michael M. I used the Steam code you gave me, and I ended up getting Monument Builders Alcatraz. I would describe the game as an iPhone app game, Skinner Box Click Fest, and it is actually also available for the mobile app, so this makes sense. While the mobile app uses in-app purchases, this version offers the normally paid power-ups for each level free. This makes the game a little faster and intense, but doesn't change the experience too much. The game uses a top-down map. The gameplay looks and feels like the map part of Actrizer for SNES. The gameplay consists of clicking on resources and using those resources to build buildings to make more, and different types of resources, such as wood, steel, and cement. Each level lasts roughly 5 to 10 minutes. To complete a level, you simply complete a checklist for that level, such as build a certain building, collect certain resources. I didn't finish the game, but I'm guessing there are 40 to 50 levels. The gameplay is simple and basic. Just build buildings and collect resources. No deep menu, settings, or adjustments. Typical mobile app game style. The levels are timed, and you can get 1 to 3 diamonds per level, depending upon your time. There is some strategy involved if you going for a faster time You would need to efficiently spend resources on the checklist items without spending resources on things that don help complete the checklist You could just click your way through the game and finish it or try and get three diamonds per level for more replay value. I wanted to hate it because it's essentially a mobile app click-a-thon, but it is polished, well done, and addictive. It would definitely be a guilty pleasure for when I want to turn off the old brain.
    67:32
    That's not... No, we're alright. For a mobile game. Some of those, there are a couple mobile games that I still play for that exact reason because they're just fun enough and interesting enough to be something that will take time and not a lot of brain power. And it's just kind of a lie. No, I get that. Well, our last review that I will read is from Brett. and Brett, you're getting the southern accent because we can't have me confused with the earlier read that I did through, which was the more narrator style voice. I don't remember if it was Brett. Someone emailed us. I deleted the email because, well, they had some comments, but it said, you may read this email aloud on air, but only if you do it in a Mickey Mouse voice. So I deleted it because I have no Mickey Mouse voice. Oh!
    68:29
    Hello, children. We could do Mr. I could do this review as Mr. Hanky. Howdy ho, friends. I think I will. Sorry. Skip ahead approximately 45 seconds. This isn't a very long one. Sorry, Brett. Yeah, sorry, Brett.
    68:45
    Review. Anomaly Warzone Earth Mobile Campaign. My Steam key was Anomaly Warzone Earth Mobile Campaign. Developed back in 2011 for the iPhone 4, this mobile game was brought to Steam in 2013 for PC gamers. In addition to releasing its PC game, they ported the mobile version to Steam as well. I got the more stripped down mobile version. Even with mobile routes, it's not compatible with the Steam Deck. This game is a reverse tower defense game. The main goal of the game is to send units to alien-infested locations to clear them out. It is basically a caravan babysitting game with most of your time spent fixing, upgrading, and changing caravan paths to prevent them from becoming lunch meat for the aliens.
    69:41
    The cutscenes are fine. I'm supposed to laugh while I read this review. The graphics are passable and the gameplay leaves more to be desired. The game is fairly short, but it has additional challenge modes if you desire. I misread that line and I gotta do it again, folks. The game is fairly short, but it has additional challenge modes if you are in need of more alien killing. Anomaly Warzone Earth takes a serious tone that's difficult to take seriously, like me. I personally prefer my tower defense games to be more campy and outrageous. If you are a fan of tower defense games, the non-mobile version might be for you. Overall, I do not recommend this game. It does not smell like flowers.
    70:31
    How's your throat feeling after that? It hurts. It hurts bad, Tony. I think I turned into Mr. Sun Yankee.
    70:40
    I can't go back. It hurts too much. I can't go back. Oh, you'll have fun tomorrow going into your first meeting like that.
    70:52
    All right, we're done with the reviews for this episode. So there's news. There has been news.
    71:01
    It's done. It's over. The Activision Blizzard Microsoft merger is complete. Kit King brought it all together. Yeah, it's all done. It's all brought together. The UK approved the revised deal.
    71:15
    Like I mentioned last episode, the FTC is looking at following up and doing something else, but not until after the merger is done because they can't get anything until the court is still in. So we're a done deal.
    71:27
    Bobby Kotek has confirmed that he's staying through the end of 23. Okay. So that just makes sense as a transition time. Because I'll be honest, I didn't expect him to leave. I figured he'd be there Afterwards It is also sounding like that Game Pass is going to start Or Activision Blizzard Games will start Appearing on Game Pass in 24 So Okay yeah So that way people can get the games for free And then pay $40 for a skin Yes The Morgoth skin Oh it's so cool But it's so expensive It is a cool looking skin It is I don't know about $40 Well I do know because I didn't buy it I do like to play Moira When people are bullying me I get bullied a lot So I turn to Moira Everyone gets one The tank gets one go And the DPS gets one go And if I've died twice as a support I usually go alright no one's going to take care of me It's Moira time And if the DPS aren't doing damage Then it's TikTok Moira time And I just go in I just do it I do what I want I'd probably be able to do it a lot better if I had that $40 skin You would because people would be in awe They're like wow this guy's a whale He bought the $40 skin That or he stole Mama's credit card One of the two Poor Mama's credit card Also When it comes to Blizzard Diablo 4 coming soon to Steam. Can't wait to see the review bombs on that. I'm sure it'll be fine. Yeah, of course it will. It'll be fine. This is fine. Overwatch did so well. This is fine. Overwatch had issues. Diablo's loved.
    73:25
    Oops. Good times. But they did confirm that it will be Steam Deck verified when it launches. so at least you can play it on Steam.
    73:41
    We're not continuing him's voice. No, wait. It was the one you did. Was it Steam Deck compatible? Correct. What was up with that? I don't know. We should have explored that. Steam Deck compatibility. Yes, that's key. But you don't think that'll be enough to protect it from the bombing? No, it's not. There's just too much rage out there. There is a lot. So it'll get review bombed for sure.
    74:08
    Sony got hacked again. Really? I had not heard about this. Yeah, no, they got hacked a few months ago. Yeah, I remember that one. Right, but now they got hacked, but this time the information they got was basically personal information from like HR for about 7,000 current and former employees. Ouch. So Sony has come out and they're offering to pay for credit monitoring and identity restoration services to those affected employees. So that's rough. I actually yesterday when I got the mail, I had a letter from a drug company. Like, I'm trying to think what I what drugs did I do with this company? They got well, they they make one of the COVID vaccines. That's the only thing I could think of is I'll tell you it is Janssen who owns Johnson and Johnson. Right. But they had some sort of breach, so they had to do like a HIPAA alert letter. Actually, I don't think it was HIPAA. I think it was just one of those, we don't think your personal information was compromised, but they got into some system that Johnson & Johnson uses.
    75:12
    They got into the butt powder system. Yeah. They know who uses butt powder. That's the sound of the butt powder.
    75:20
    That's why it sounded like talc, because it's the only powder I know about. Don't inhale it. Don't they have like a lawsuit, Johnson & Johnson, baby powder? Because babies inhale the powder and then... I'm a gold bond, man. Yeah, well, don't let the babies inhale that either. The babies are going to have talc lung.
    75:40
    I got the white lung, Paul. Look at the white lung. That should have had a pinball thing. Barrels do Zoolander. Not two, though. Not two. Just the first one. The first Zoolander was like... Is it too much of its era, though? Like, is that before smartphones? So they're doing the whole little tiny phone thing the whole time? It could be, but it is humorous, and this is a complete tangent. But so many old TV shows and old movies that could not work nowadays thanks to the power of smartphones and cell phones. You know, it's really funny. Like, when I remember watching the first season of The Wire, and there was all the pagers and the payphones. I'm like, there are no payphones. This isn't going to work. Well, it's like when I was watching, I rewatched some episodes of The X-Files not that long ago. And even there, they ended up with cell phones eventually. But originally, they was like, no.
    76:42
    It's amazing. All of the alien encounters are gone. Now everybody carries a video camera with them. Unless you're talking to the Mexican government. I think I can't. I remember watching war games when I was a kid. And there's a part where Matthew Broderick is looking on the ground and finds some sort of metal thing that he uses to do something to the payphone. And payphones were still around, but I was really confused. I think it was my dad who was like, what is going on? He's like, well, well, son, there used to be these pull off tabs for cans. And that's why he was looking on the ground because people would just throw them everywhere. So it's like it's actually realistic. But that, yeah, he needed that little piece of metal because I was like, why is he looking for like, why would there be a can tab? And it's like because they always came off. You pulled them off. It's like I had no context. It's like the old days that you just dig a hole in the ground to pour out your used motor oil. Yeah.
    77:38
    Yes. I remember the transition of us no longer pouring it on the gravel driveway and then and then taking it to recycle. as it's done now it's like you know lessons have been learned over time but by george i i still shake my finger and wag it really aggressively at those kids that are like showing a rotary phone and can't figure it out it's like it's not it's got it's got no buttons it's got a wheel what how hard could it be we always poured the oil along the fence line so we wouldn't have to weed eat it oh that's that's smart i mean it's not it was bad but that's clever so uh cd project red just released the new uh uh cyberpunk yes uh expansion uh though they have had three rounds of layoffs this year uh in may june and july each month they had they did layoffs They weren't huge layoffs. They were like 20, 30, and 90 people, something like that. But apparently it was enough that the CD Projekt Red devs have bounded together with all of the other video game devs in Poland and have now created a developer union. And they have unionized.
    78:59
    There has been no response yet from CD Projekt Red about the situation, but, I mean, it's a union, so they're going to have to have a response at some point.
    79:10
    PlayStation has released That was a weird vocal fry thing I did right there PlayStation has released their new PS5 slims Or they're coming in November But they released pictures and information Yeah, I saw the images of those They're just smaller PS5s I find it interesting that while they are releasing the digital only version It has a removable panel so you can buy a disk drive and add to it later so you can get digital only but expand it to become an actual that's nice of them i i mean considering that i use my playstation 4 as a blu-ray player and that's about it anymore right i think it's good to have that yes i i do use my xbox as a as a blu-ray player as well so yeah it's uh i so i i personally do like that i get i get the because i am getting more and more games digitally like like of these games like on my tv here only starfield actually had a significant portion put on the disc the rest were primarily just downloads right so that is we see more and more of that i i'm sure in order to control the sizing the pressure will be and pricing for that matter will be to get rid of the optical drives but right but i don't know i still kind of hope they keep an option available for those of us that just want to have one console and let it go ahead and be the blizzard. I still remember when the whole digital downloading of games first began, and you would get a game drive on PC. You would get the CD box, and you'd open the CD box, and there would be a CD in there. And you would put the CD in your machine, and you'd go in, and there was one tiny little file on the CD that just launched Steam. and then automatically input the code after you were logged into steam that was nice of it and then you downloaded from steam because there was nothing on to this and then you weren't allowed to take it back to babbage's babbage i remember babbage my first computer game i remember going and getting was at babbage's and it was railroad tycoon sid meyer's railroad tycoon it was a good game i really like that every other railroad game i've ever got ever since i've not liked i keep trying but they always are just like simulation is way too realistic or i don't i don't know i just want to build trains the closest and i won't say it's better but the closest to it that i've had is uh called transportation i think basically it is similar to you lay out trains but You can also lay out roads and buses and boats and planes. You can do all of it if you want. Or you can just do trains, which is what I typically do is I'll lay out bus routes in a town and then I lay out trains between the towns. So I've got it. It's fun, but it's not as fun as Sid Meier. But all the Sid Meier's Pirates was a classic of the kind of silly, fun pirate game. Always enjoyed it quite a lot And then The last thing, because I know we did a lot of pinball And a lot of other stuff today, the last thing I've got Is more just to Vent my spleen, to vent my rage Paradox Interactive Purchased Hairbrain Schemes as a fully Owned subsidiary. Hairbrain Schemes Made the excellent Shadowrun Games and My personal favorite their Battletech game, which is my favorite Battletech game or MechWarrior game. Of all time. Of all time, video game-wise. I like it even more than the old MechWarrior games that were so huge.
    83:07
    Love it. I have 1,300 hours in that game. Well, Harebrained Schemes released their new game, The Lamplighter's League, and it did not do well. It did so badly, Paradox had to write it down, the development cost is losses, because it's not even going to make back the cost of development. It's done so poorly.
    83:35
    So they're talking about seeing a $22.7 million reduction in the fourth quarter profits. And it has come out that two months prior to the launch of Lamplighter League, Paradox released 80% of Harebrained Scheme staff. Wow. So it sounds like the end of Harebrained. Right. And with that release, other information started coming out. Like the Lamplighters League was forced on Harebrained's scheme. It wasn't the game they wanted to make. Paradox forced them to. The game they wanted to make was Battletech 2.
    84:12
    But Paradox didn't want to do that because it would have required splitting money with Microsoft. because of Microsoft's owning of the MechWarrior stuff. So they didn't want to split money. So they did not do that project and instead did this project and killed the company.
    84:34
    So I'm disappointed, especially because from what I've seen, the Lamplighters League stuff is nothing like anything else Harebrained Schemes had ever done. Their games were a different style. But it's disappointing. But again, it's just a, it's not a huge major thing. It's just, I'm deeply disappointed by it because of how much I love Battle. The thing that cracked me up is since it's released, the highest concurrent player count on Lamplighter's League is less than the concurrent count, play count, player count of Battletech in the same time period. less than half of the concurrent player count of Battletech in the same time period. Some of that concurrent players was me. Yeah. You did your best to help them. This was the fear when Paradox bought them because Paradox does stuff like this.
    85:37
    The fears were realized. Yes. So that's where we are. Video games, pinball, reviews, personal discussions. Yep.
    85:49
    I guess we can stop. We'll finally have a new JJP came to talk about that. We will in a couple of weeks. So there's that. I hope those of you going to expo have fun. I hope it has. I hope it has a really good. How would you pick songs? Elton John has so many songs. How do you make the choice? Why not? I mean, with Guns N' Roses, they basically seemed like to stick everything in. So maybe they'll do that. Maybe they'll do that. Maybe we'll see the special video about how the designers all became best friends with Elton John's lead guitarist, and that's what opened the path. And then eventually we can hear an Elton John version of a Little House Shop of Horrors song, kind of like we had to have the Slashified version of Godfather theme. I totally thought you were going to say Little House on the Prairie. And I'm like, you know what? And the way JGP gets licenses, I would not surprise you if they got a Little House on the Prairie license. They were just like, why didn't this work? I actually read a number of those books when I was young. Yeah.
    86:53
    That's all I can say about Little House on the Prairie. I don't remember them well. I read them. I read a bunch of them because there were other little houses. Like it was a series or something. Yeah. Anyway, if you want to reach out to us about this episode, email eclectic gamers podcast at gmail.com don't bother emailing about how horrible southern mr hanky was we know it was horrible we feel that i ain't editing it out because that review they went to the trouble of writing it so i had to go to the trouble of reading it sorry brett uh you can also uh join us on patreon patreon.com slash eclectic underscore gamers and we're also on facebook.com slash eclectic gamers podcast if you want to reach out there though email honestly is better than messaging on face i don't like the facebook messenger when it comes to the entity thing because you have to do this whole swap it's a big thing it's so weird it's a big messenger like normal for normal just for like individuals is great is great yeah why is the professional side it's so terrible it's so slow it's like paradox got it yeah it's horrible it's gross anyway but you can if you need to you can message us through it i do check it we're also available on Twitch and Instagram, Collectic underscore Gamers. I'm hoping to get... What are you hoping for? I always say it. I'm hoping to start doing more Instagram stuff. You're not going to. But it's probably going to fail. But I'm going to try. I'm going to try. I did so good there for a while, and then I slacked off. I'm sorry. That's my fault. I'm a terrible social media person. Well, they can email us about that if they want to judge.
    88:25
    You can't judge me harsher than I judge myself. Maybe don't bother. Alright we'll be back in a couple weeks Until next time my name is Dennis I am Tony Goodbye everybody Bye to you That wasn't me that was Tony That's fine because my voice is higher You sure do listen like a flower A southern hanky flower What are you doing Howard The podcast is over Go home Go home. Why don't you watch South Park or play the hit South Park game? It has toilet on it.
    89:06
    I know the game isn't any good, but you can play it anyway. Hold me closer, tiny dancer. I hope I am a bash toy. I'm the tiny dancer. It was me all along. Mr. Tiny Dancing King. Tiny dancer. who's the boss now Tony Danza okay we're done thank you bye