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We Are Pinball #21 "Top 3 Pinball!"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 23m·analyzed·Jan 13, 2025
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

WAP ranks top 3 games per manufacturer; emphasizes shot layout over theme; discusses pricing/secondary market concerns.

Summary

WAP hosts discuss their top 3 pinball games across manufacturers (Stern, JJP, Spooky, Valley, Data East, American Pinball). Speakers prioritize shot layout and code quality, debate theme licensing vs. gameplay, and express concern about escalating Pro/Premium/LE pricing. Key tensions emerge over game value retention (John Wick, Toy Story 4 secondary market decline) and licensing impact on games like Pirates of the Caribbean.

Key Claims

  • Metallica Remastered has 'best code' with Lyman Sheets design; nothing comes close

    high confidence · Genghis comparing Metallica to X-Men code quality

  • X-Men code will improve significantly by summer 2025 through Elizabeth and Dwight's work

    medium confidence · Speaker speculation about X-Men code development trajectory

  • Kong will cost more at launch due to price increase; Stern prices jumped $500-600 historically

    medium confidence · Discussion about waiting for Kong vs. D&D purchase decision

  • John Wick LE machines now selling in secondary market for $9,500 (down from $15K+ retail)

    high confidence · Direct market price discussion

  • Toy Story 4 Collectors Edition costs $15K; lost more secondary market value than John Wick

    high confidence · Pricing comparison between JJP games

  • Pirates of the Caribbean LE cost $8,500 at 2018 launch; original games never released due to production/licensing issues

    high confidence · Historical pricing and production context

  • Pirates of the Caribbean only recently received code-complete wizard mode despite 2018 release

    high confidence · Discussion of game development delays

  • European operators must charge $3/play on machines; need 3x-4x purchase cost recovery due to tariffs (€10K for $7K games)

    high confidence · Donnie discussing European market economics

Notable Quotes

  • “shots on layout is just so important... X-Men destroys Metallica's shots on layout. I mean, facts, but multiple magnets, right?”

    Genghis @ ~22:30 — Core design priority tension between shot layout and code/audio quality

  • “I think I'm just holding back on Dungeons & Dragons. In three months, we will get the Elwynn game. Let's just get that instead.”

    Donnie @ ~30:00 — Consumer purchase deferral based on anticipated designer reputation (Keith Elwin)

  • “When we buy a pro, we pay the premium price. That's crazy... we need to make $10,000 back. We can't get $7,000 in three months here in Europe.”

    Donnie @ ~35:00 — European market pricing pressure and tariff impact on operator economics

  • “I met John Wick at a hipster coffee shop, and we kind of hit it off... I just found out this job he kept talking about wasn't really that great... I'm more in love with the idea of dating John Wick than actually dating John Wick.”

    Genghis @ ~45:00 — Metaphorical description of failed JJP game investment; code/theme mismatch

  • “Their best game was the one that they made like the least amount of. It's never going to be available again. And it only now just got a code complete with the wizard mode.”

    Genghis @ ~73:00 — Pirates of the Caribbean production scarcity and delayed code completion create collector tension

  • “When this game gets remade, I want it to be sold for the original prices. $7,000. That will just destroy anything else that month.”

    Genghis @ ~75:00 — Prediction that Pirates re-release at original MSRP would dominate sales due to secondary market scarcity

  • “Spooky Pinball can make a white body game. Heck, yeah, they can... More white bodies, please.”

    Donnie @ ~95:00 — Enthusiasm for wider playfields in boutique manufacturer output

  • “How are you gonna put that up against um you know like the music and monsters or something... It's not fair. A professional band like you know Grammy award-winning person put out all that music”

Entities

GenghispersonDonniepersonKeith ElwinpersonLyman SheetspersonElizabethpersonDwightpersonEric MinnierpersonStern PinballcompanyJersey Jack Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Pirates of the Caribbean scarcity creating secondary market premium; speakers predict $7K re-release would 'destroy anything else that month' in sales

    medium · Original $8.5K price now unavailable; speakers reference owning Collectors Edition as valuable collectible; scarcity drives desire

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Positive reception toward improving code trajectories on X-Men and D&D; community trust in Elizabeth/Dwight team based on James Bond precedent

    medium · Speakers cite James Bond code elevation as proof of concept; optimism that 'D&D has every chance of getting that' via team capabilities

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Keith Elwin designer premium strengthening; consumers deferring purchases (D&D hold for Kong) based on designer reputation alone; creates scarcity narrative

    high · Donnie: 'let's hold back [D&D purchase]... we will get the Elwynn game in three months instead'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Speakers prioritize shot layout accessibility over theme authenticity or audio novelty; reject narrative that licensed music/IP automatically makes superior games

    high · Multiple comparisons favoring Metallica and X-Men layouts over Jaws/Godzilla; critique of Grammy music comparison as 'unfair'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Pirates of the Caribbean severely impacted by missing music and Johnny Depp assets; original production canceled features (triple spinner, opening chest); content cuts reduced appeal

    high · Speakers discuss how removed features (music, chest opening, coffin opening) caused 2018 buyers to reject purchase; licensing constraints visible in final product

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.251

0:00
Ayo, Genghis, let's record episode number 21. What do you think? Should I hit the music? You ready? Yeah, man, why not? Let's go!
0:13
Listening to the sampled sounds from GTA 4 intro music, it is the We Are Pinball Homeboy Hangout. And everybody's welcome to this for, we'll call it episode 21. Top three lists is a topic. amongst the surviving pinball companies and those that actually produce more than five games.
0:36
Jenga's idea, which he's got the best ones anyway. He contacted me. You're like, hey, let's take Stern. Let's take Valley Williams from the 80s and the 90s. Let's take American Pinball and do top threes. And let's even throw Spooky in there for fun. Maybe a little JJP. Spice it up. Give us a reason to talk pinball. I dig it. I dig it, man.
0:57
Yeah, why not? I mean, we released episode 20 for three days ago, which was a huge episode, a lot of D&D talk. And after that, an hour behind the wall, Patreon talk. So we have two big shows for three days ago. But I'm like, I'm feeling we don't really have that much news since those three days. Well, did you get enough? There's been so much news in the last week, dude. I'm still reeling from all that. Yeah. But all that we had in our show number 20. But this 21, I was like, man, I'm tired. I want to call my homie up and talk about top three games. Why not? Let's make an easy, easygoing show and just talk about top three games from Stern, J.J.P., Spooky, Billy Williams, 90s, Billy Williams, 80s, Data East, and American Pinball. And let our pickings fight against each other. Which ones are the best? Why not? I love this, man. Let's make it weird.

Genghis @ ~17:00 — Critiques unfair competitive advantage of licensed music IP in pinball game comparisons

Spooky Pinball
company
Foo Fightersgame
Black Knight Sword of Ragegame
Metallica Remasteredgame
X-Mengame
Jawsgame
Godzillagame
Pirates of the Caribbeangame
John Wickgame
Toy Story 4game
Elton Johngame
Evil Deadgame
Dungeons & Dragons: The Tyrant's Eyegame
Konggame
  • $

    market_signal: JJP games showing poor theme-to-gameplay fit pattern: Elton John ('horrible theme'), Wizard of Oz ('horrible theme'), Avatar ('horrible theme'); $46M IP investment questioned

    high · Genghis directly states most JJP themes are 'more horrible than good'; critique of Avatar licensing decision for target demographic

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Elizabeth positioned as rising star code designer; credibility established via Jaws and other titles; now leading D&D code development

    medium · Reference to Elizabeth's experience as trust signal for X-Men and D&D improvement potential

  • $

    market_signal: European operators facing critical economics: $7K US games cost €10K locally due to tariffs; require 3x-4x recovery at $3/play; sustainability questioned

    high · Donnie: 'we need to keep Pro under 7k... we pay €10,000 when you pay $7,000... we need to make $10,000 back'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Evil Dead Spooky white-body game in active production; no concrete ship date; speakers expect 'any day now' but cautious about early unit QA slowdowns

    medium · Donnie: 'they're always a little slow to roll out the first couple because they're going through them ten times'

  • ?

    product_concern: X-Men shot layout praised but code quality currently 'basic' (described as Foo Fighters-level); expected summer 2025 improvement via Elizabeth/Dwight collaboration

    medium · Speaker compares X-Men code to Foo Fighters placeholder design; confidence in future improvement based on team credentials

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: John Wick secondary market collapse from $15K retail to ~$9.5K; speakers describe as failed investment despite initial promise

    high · Genghis metaphor about 'dating John Wick' and realizing it's not working out; comparison to Toy Story 4 pricing ($15K Collectors now in similar range)

  • ?

    technology_signal: Spooky successfully designing wide-body feel on standard-width playfield through clever side art/element placement; innovation in compact design

    medium · Donnie praise for Evil Dead: 'has got so much stuff on the sides, so it feels like a standard body when you play the game'

    • 1:59
    So should we just start with – oh, we cannot start, man. We have something very important to say. What is that? On all our videos, we need to thank our highest supporters on Patreon. Right, Donnie? Let's do it. We have to do that, man. We have to say, first of all, for our executive producer, the real Velvet Steve at 100 bucks. Hey, man. Thank you, buddy. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. But we also have Jeremy Ford, the Mustang.
    2:31
    It's in my top string games of all time, I think, too. All right. Thank you, Mr. Ford Mustang, for the $50 support. Thank you, dear friend. Oh, we also have Enzo Ferrari from Australia.
    2:47
    I was just talking to him today, dude. What a cool guy. Oh, man. Thank him extra, extra. he's also a $50 producer level supporter so love those guys but Donnie we get new Patreon supporters all the time I know we just said we made a show three days ago but you know what Bradley Bauman he joined our show on Patreon I mean every come on we're calling them all out man let's go welcome Bradley welcome dear friend so cool I hope you're enjoying all those shows behind the curtain now. People are walking in, and there's a ton of stuff that's back there too. All uncensored, unfiltered, especially because nobody was listening initially. I wasn't holding back at all, man. And I'm going to keep it like that. I'm going to keep it creamy with y'all. You know, they are writing there, oh, Jenkins, you're cool, but Donnie 2.0 on Patreon? He is so much cooler than you.
    3:47
    And that's fine by me. Oh, wait. We also got Anthony Muroa. Oh, this dude is awesome. This dude's awesome.
    3:56
    Oh, my God. Yeah, more and more supporters coming in. Welcome, everybody. So this time, Bradley and Anthony, welcome. This show is dedicated to you two guys. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, let's start with our top three Stern pinball machines, okay? And the way we're going to do this is like our games are going to fight against each other. So I'm going to start with my top three, Stern. At number three, I picked Foo Fighters. What? Yeah, that's my number three. Out of everything Stern Pinball has produced, great flowing game, hell of an initial seller. It's really hard to move one now only because there are so many. Yes. I'm sorry about that, but this is my personal list. This is not a pin side, a top 100, nothing like that. All right, all right, makes sense. What I enjoy. So what's at your number three? Oh, so this is hard because you asked, you know, Stern Pinball top three, what should you do? Godzilla, Jaws, and I don't know, Iron Maiden, right? Like all L ones, which is boring, even though it's accurate, boring. So, like, I want to dig a little deeper and, like, find games that I've, I just, like, I have them by the little nizzos, you know, like, like they're reaching into my heart here.
    5:18
    I'm going to go unconventional and go Black Knight Sword of Rage number three. I thought so, man. Yeah, yeah. It's fun and fast and brutal, but it's fair. It's fair. It's such a cool game. I enjoy that game also. Also the pro version. Amazing, man. Amazing shooting game. I don't think there's been a game that matches that music and just that vibe. for like it's just a battle start to finish right there's no like calm time during that game yeah the ultimate fan layout and that night in the middle of the play field awesome play better i got steve richie in my room talking to me and berating me and like that's half the game yeah steve richie call outs man it's so good but again the alternative soundtrack is also cool if you're in medieval mode then then then it also works if uh if you want a bit more easygoing music well if foo fighters should fight against ah which one will win man i think the foo fighters shots and layout are cooler than black knights that's true yeah definitely on the flow you got me beat there although i the thing i like about it and i like this about metallica too is that the shots are like findable and hittable like for me there's no you know weird snicked shots that you got to try to make there's no snakes that are going around anywhere it's like you know left spinner you know that a middle shot up to the the orbit uh you know fighting the the guy himself and you got the right orbit over there and it's like everything's accessible to me like i know where they're at and when i play bad it's like it's my fault it's fair fair but wasn't overthinking anything you know but audio package your game will win over Foo Fighters really all outs and music yes I was it's always funny when a music pin wins like best music of the year and it's like well no shit like a professional band like you know Grammy award-winning person put out all that music you know how are you gonna put that up against um you know like the music and monsters or something Exactly. It's not fair. But I like the whole audio package on Black Knight. It's an awesome experience. But still, shots on layout, I think, Foo Fighters. But it's fair. It's fair. There's a deeper game on Foo Fighters, so I'll give you that.
    7:43
    Yeah. Yeah, code-wise also. All right. So what's your number two Stern game? Oh, my God. John Wick, only because I'm trying to sell it. No. um god let me uh look i know it's recently released i'm gonna go newer on this one but like i i've been playing the hell out of this game and it's it's got everything i like in in pinball i think it's just the pinnacle of everything nothing is overthought nothing is over engineered and it's completely loaded and i'm going to give it to metallica remastered oh that's a nice one that's a nice one again like every shot there like i can find it i know where they're at i know if i can cradle a ball i have safe shots i can backhand the ramps now um you know i can i can drain the graveyard gravestones when i want to i can get to the the blackened wizard mode with relative ease like i love it dude it's just this game's awesome yeah and when i'm looking at dunny i can see stranger things i can see star wars i can see x-men illy and i can see the metallica what's the game next to the stranger things i can see just the oh that's uh Star Wars and Munsters are flanking Stranger Things. Munsters, yeah, all right, all right. So my number two Stern game is actually on your background there. Oh, no. And it's actually a game that has got amazing shots on layout. Can you guess which one it is? X-Men. What?
    9:13
    Are you serious? I'm telling you, these are the games that I'm enjoying the most right now. I mean, I really enjoy shooting the X-Men. If I lived in the U.S., I would just bought your X-Men right now. Oh, it's available, and it looks amazing, yeah. It looks amazing. I like the audio package and shots and layout. Come on, man. I know we have some crybabies out there want to bash this game, but, I mean, layout for me, it's 90% of the enjoyment. I like shooting it. Yes, the code is a bit lacking. all right but it will it will it will be good this summer summer of 2025 check out the code on x-men just wait and see probably probably because right now like this game code wise and mode wise plays a lot like foo fighters right like hit a couple shots okay now pick your mode and then it's you know they're either easy or hard and it's just you know hit a couple of blue shots or hit more blue shots or sometimes the blue shots moving across the play field you know and then get to the future yeah and then what do you do in the future i still have no idea i need some more code there i it's hard to judge it this early on code but i will because metallica has fully fleshed out code and that clearly claims round two come on i mean metallica's lemon sheets code man that's i mean nothing can beat that nothing comes close so yeah it is what it is and and on the remastered It got a bit more saltier. It got a bit, you know, optimization on the code. So what a great code on that game. But still, shots on layout. X-Men destroys Metallica's shots on layout. I mean, facts, but multiple magnets, right? Four multi-balls. Every time the hammer smacks the ball underneath the play field into the coffin, and then you get call-outs from the band with the live music footage. way better music way better music yeah audio package your game destroys my game completely come on man you just put a call out put a master of puppets fucking crank it yes dude yeah you know that you know that hammer that's in the middle of the play field that takes so much play space and you can't really see what's going on under that have you seen there's a new mod out there that makes that hammer even bigger oh the one with the skull on it that's from diddy's pinball mods yeah dude for real even bigger it takes more space there yeah all right all right so yeah okay metallica remastered awesome game but for me shots shots on layout is just so important so yeah my choice is on x-men it is what it is all right all right so let me hear your big number one stern game of all time donnie what do you enjoy right now if i'm being fair to myself and everybody else and taking everything in an excel spreadsheet and putting it out i i think i'm at jaws i'm gonna go i'm gonna go more recent again i don't have it anymore kind of want it back but for like as integrated i know you hate sharks dude but like as as integrated as that theme is like like like pinnacle kind of game now i got love for monsters i got love for stranger things Come on, WWE, WrestleMania, hell yeah. Hell yeah. If I was wasting a moment. If I'm being honest and, you know, somebody is going to, like, make an actionable purchase based on my opinion, you can't go wrong with Jaws.
    12:48
    That coat on Jaws is amazing, man. Yeah. If Kong is anything near this level, dude, dude. It will be. I just installed the Pin Blaster and Pin Vision in Godzilla Ellie and played the Godzilla Ellie again and again and again. That game is just unbeatable, Donnie. Oh, my God. That's still on my number one list. It's an old game. It's like four years old now. But still, code is amazing. Light show is amazing. Shots on layout. I mean, for me, shots on layout, it's so important. And when you start the modes, the music, and again with the pin blaster and pin vision, it's just muddled all the way. Woo! That's still my number one game, man. Love it. When I think of these games, like Godzilla, I'd give like a 97 out of 100, and Jaws would get like a 97.5. Just because the Jaws theme is better than the Godzilla theme, I think the mechanisms are better than Godzilla. I think the shots are about equal, probably better in Godzilla. But, yeah, you're not wrong for thinking that. And we're really splitting hairs, man. These two games are phenomenal. And if we could put Kong and Jurassic Park up there with Jaws and Godzilla and just have, like, these four just horsemen of the Elwinpocalypse, yeah. I mean, I really trust in Elwin. We were just talking about should we just order one of them Dungeons & Dragons. and we were so close, but I actually said, let's just hold it back. Let's just, in three months, we will get the Elwynn game. Let's just get that instead. So I think we're just holding back on Dungeons & Dragons. Probably a smart choice. Three months from now, man. So, yeah, let's get the Elwynn game. It's so close. For sure, for sure. And nothing bad about Dungeons & Dragons. Nothing there. But this is just Elwynn. It's just next level. I also love Elwynn's shots on layout. I am a shots and layout guy, but I love his coding team. Really, really, really love his coding team. He's got the best team. In Dungeons & Dragons Defense, part of the reason the code is so cool is because Elizabeth is on the team. And she's on the team with D&D as well. And one of the things, like a game comes out and, like, you know, shots and layouts are one thing. But the code can really elevate it as long as the bones are good. We saw that with James Bond. and I think D&D has every chance on getting that because the bones of D&D are decent. Probably slightly better than decent, right? Not the most amazing. I have never seen this shot before in pinball or nothing, but, like, it's very good as far as just the general shots. And Dwight is, like, really passionate about this code. Elizabeth is passionate about this code. So she's cut her teeth now on Jaws and some others, and so now digging into this.
    15:42
    Look at where D&D is in, like, eight months, man. It's going to be phenomenal, I think. I mean, yeah. So, yeah, but do you go now? Do you wait a couple months? Do you just get the Kong that's coming, man? But, again, again, what if Kong comes out with that price increase, and now when you want to go get a D&D, it's under the price increase too?
    16:04
    Could happen. I don't know what's going to happen. I hope it doesn't. But these are the things I lay awake and sleep at night thinking about. But, Tony, every time, yeah, years back, when they got the Stern price increases, yeah, it jumped like $500, $600. But the Pro only jumped $100. That's true. Yeah. So I think and I hope that Stern will leave the Pro prices alone.
    16:33
    Honestly, they'll probably go to like $7,200 or something. No, no, no, no, no. Don't go over $7,000 for the Pro. don't they're already 69.99 right yeah keep it there the pro the pro is just yeah under 7k if they go over 7k because we need to fight to get our money back it's not like electric bed over here with three months and then the game is bought it's not like that here in europe so yeah keep it under 7k you need to market better than i don't know i'm just kidding no no it's just no no we We can't get $7,000 in three months here. You're charging $3 a play, though, dude. But, dude, when we buy the game for $7,000, we pay $10,000. Yeah. When we buy a pro, we pay the premium price. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah. So we need to make $10,000, you know? So, yeah, because of the Vette.
    17:33
    Yeah. So, all right. But I would say Jaws versus Godzilla. Godzilla will win on every category. I'm sorry. It's close, man. Yeah, that theme puts it over. You don't like sharks, though. You're biased.
    17:49
    I mean, because of you, I watched Jaws 1, and it wasn't that bad. Like, I remember as a four-year-old kid, you know, I watched it. It was an enjoyable film, and I understand the fans of this franchise.
    18:07
    But I only played, I only unboxed and played and showed Jaws Pro. Shots and Layouts for me on the Pro was not, it was not Elwin good. I don't know how the Premier League is, but the Pro was just not, I mean, Elwynn's game are my favorite games, but I don't know. I wasn't – yeah. I love some of the shots on there so much, though. That right orbit to the ramp, the left spinner shot, you can hit it both ways. Oh, dude, it's fun.
    18:39
    On our game, if you hit the left spinner from the right side, it will just turn around and go straight down the middle.
    18:47
    Which one is that? On the pro version. Oh, you would notice that? That spinner on the right side, if you go in at the right side, it will just turn around and go straight down the middle. Oh, maybe that was just your game. I never had that problem. Adjust the ball guide. I don't know. But, yeah, that's how I feel, and that's how you feel. All right, all right. Let's jump over to JJP. Yes, that house that Jack built.
    19:16
    I'm going to start with my number three, okay, on JJP. It's a white-body game. It's a game called The Hobbit. Okay, okay. I like it. Four pop-up dragons, evil heads you have to bash, two very cool ram shots. It's got the dragon that turns his head and drop down targets all over the place. I like it. It's an adventure. So it's at my number three. How do you feel?
    19:46
    I've got five games that I would consider ranking. and I'm trying to see like what I want to put in number three.
    19:54
    I think I saw number two there, but then I'm buying an Avatar. Maybe I should hype that up. No, no. Not Hobbit. I think for this spot, I'm going to go Toy Story 4.
    20:09
    Oh, honorable mention here. Yeah, that's a fun pin. It's a fun pin. It could have been phenomenal, you know, if there was a little upper play field there where the ball would roll off into the claw machine, and then there was a magnetic claw that would pick up your ball and the aliens would go nuts, right? So the theme, it takes a hit. The layout takes a hit a bit. That iPad takes up some room. But game is fun to play, and especially with non-pinball people, they really like this game. Disney people really like this game. Hitting that jump ramp is really fun. I considered just this week doing a trade deal to bring in a Toy Story Collectors Edition into the house just to have the dang thing here. So it's close. Trade with what What should they trade with John Wake I think Don you lose there I mean how much does the collectors cost now Listen you can get them for right now
    21:04
    For John Wick or? For John Wick, LE, yeah. They're down in the nines now. I know, I know, I know, I know.
    21:15
    How about Toy Story? What do they cost? Same, like $9,500. So Toy Story's lost more. Yeah, yeah, they cost 15K, my friend. Now, John Wick still has a chance to get that 1.0 code and eke out a couple of percentage points and increase, but I don't think it's going to turn into a new straight-up thing. John Wick, it will get the topper. It will get better codes. So summer of 2025, it has the possibility to be popular, right? You know, it's like I met John Wick at a hipster coffee shop, and we kind of hit it off, and I thought he was the one. And then I just found out, like, you know, this job he kept talking about wasn't really that great, and I don't see him ever improving. And I think I just need to move on, and I'm more in love with the idea of dating John Wick than actually dating John Wick. So for that reason, I think I'm going to be single here, and we're going to break up.
    22:12
    Fair, fair, man, fair. It happens. And if you don't use time on it, if you don't enjoy it, then, yeah, I know. I know what you mean. But Torstor is a fun game. Yeah. Honorable mention for me. For number three, yeah. Yeah. I would take it over Godfather. I'd take it over Hobbit. Take it over Guns and Roses. So, yeah. I played Godfather for an hour yesterday, Donnie. Yeah. That game is so misunderstood. I'm sorry.
    22:40
    It is, man. I mean, Eric Minier, if you dive into his shots on layout, wow, I enjoy it. But I love everything Italiano and all that. So, yeah, the theme is cool. I love the leg lines. I know that.
    22:56
    Oh, yeah. All right. So if I should compare Toy Story 4 to Hobbit. Hobbit is big and beautiful and doesn't have a lot in it.
    23:10
    Yeah, it feels empty. Yeah, yeah. The freaking Stern Dragon makes that one look like a piece of crap, man. And that was smog, man. What the hell? That was supposed to be like D-Dragon. He's just back there looking like the old Data East Tyrannosaurus. Yeah. I feel like my pig is beaten here because shots on layout is better on your game. Did you just say your pig is beaten? Yeah.
    23:35
    Denmark is rough, man. But all your package is better on my game. Yeah, yeah. Well, come on. Yeah, it's based on The Hobbit. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Theme is better. Theme is better on yours. Yeah, but I'm going to take the one I can get. Also, this plan animation, The Hobbit is amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's just boring.
    23:57
    Yeah. I mean, I just feel like I need to defend JJP games. No matter what game I pick, I just need to defend it to people. But people should just try to play them, man. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I dived in yesterday. It was, yeah, cool. All right. So my number two on JJP is a pretty new gun. It's called Elton John. Woo-hoo!
    24:22
    Yep, yep, Elton. Great shots on layout. Yeah. Horrible theme. But great shots on layout. But all JJP are horrible themes. Most of them. Well. Most of them. Sorry. Well. Most of them. Well.
    24:35
    They're more horrible than good themes. Come on. What horrible? Their themes are – I like their themes. Their themes are some of the best. What themes are – okay, dialed in. Dialed in. That's garbage. Oh, God. Dialed in? Yeah, what's that? Okay. Toy Story 4 should have been Toy Story.
    24:52
    Dialed in bad. Toy Story 4 is – it's a bad theme. Not the best. Elton John is a bad theme. Yeah. That Willy Wonka is a horrible, horrible theme. Now, hang on a second. That was a great – Willy Wonka is horrible. That's a mediocre game with a great theme. And what's that with Tin Man? What's it called? I don't want to talk about Wizard of Oz. Wizard of Oz, horrible theme. Come on, buddy. Horrible theme. All right, I blocked those out. And what's the John horrible theme? Avatar for a pinball machine. Horrible theme. Now wait just a damn minute.
    25:27
    All right. Do you think if you had $46 million and you had this pinball company, would you choose Avatar?
    25:37
    Personally, no. No. And when you step a bit back and look at the pinball demograph and pinball playing people, would you then choose Avatar? I mean, probably not. No. Would you choose Godfather? But I'm not a visionary like the folks at Jersey Jack Pinball.
    25:58
    Donnie, most of their – I love Jersey Jack. Putting flipper rubbers and an eclipse that comes in and a topper that looks like a diorama.
    26:09
    I love the topper. Oh, a little bonus info about the Avatar. Yeah? We just got the message. Our game, the Collector's Edition, is ready to be shipped. Hell yeah. So, yeah, they will get the money, and it will be flown to Denmark, and I will make the unboxing video of the Collector's Edition. I'm excited. Cannot wait. All right, I want to watch that. You're getting yours before I'm getting mine. Okay, so there's hope for me then.
    26:36
    Oh, I cannot wait. I haven't done anything about that game yet because I'm excited. Actually, I'm most excited about the topper. I think the topper is magical in Avatar. Yeah. So my number two, Elton John. What's your number two, JGP? My number two is Elton John. Can we pick the same? The fucking layout and the shots are completely satisfying. It's so fun to play.
    27:03
    There's no adventure to go on, and it's Elton John. Other than that, the game's phenomenal. If this was Top Gun, if this was Matrix, if this was something I cared about, it would be very much higher, but it's very much fun to play. I don't know if that's fair, though, because how do we rank them now? Which one wins?
    27:21
    I think it's okay with both games. All right. Yeah. Okay, let's jump over to number one. All right, number one. I got it right here. Oh, we're probably going to pick the same one again. Watch. Three, two, one. Ready? Pirates of the Caribbean. Absolutely. Yes. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Yep. That music is not included.
    27:44
    That music, the best music ever. It's not included. What's going on, Donnie? Their best game was the one that they made like the least amount of. It's never going to be available again. And it only now just got a code complete on it with the wizard mode that was released.
    28:01
    And it could have been so much better. But the world that's under there. That's what, like, Hobbit should have been that complex. Yeah. Harry Potter better be, like, a return to this level of stuff. Maybe there will come a Johnny Depp edition, just like the Ripple edition. with the music and Johnny Depp call-outs and blah, blah, blah. There needs to be a Black Pearl edition of this game, man. I played this game with a smoke machine hooked up to it, and when the cannon would go off, it would blast smoke in your face. It was awesome. But this game, when it gets remade, I want it to be sold for the original prices.
    28:44
    $7,000. That will just destroy anything else that month. It will be the craziest seller. When did this game come out? Was it like 2018 or something?
    28:56
    I want to say yes. Around there, yeah. Well, man, it's an old game. I think it cost like $8.50 when it came out.
    29:06
    Yeah, 2018. All right, so in September 2018, what was I doing? I just a month or so before that I got out of residency and I had no money I had huge debt and there was no way I could entertain buying a pinball machine at that time but I probably should have and that should have been the one I got and I would still have it today damn it we had I didn't know we had those pirates games in boxes in boxes in boxes and i cannot tell you but what was it so they got sold for normal price and then very short time after all this covid craziness hit and we were like we should have kept those games in boxes what was it about it that nobody wanted it was that like a lot of money at the time because the game is loaded with all kinds of fun stuff like how could you not see that rocking ship upper play field and the cannon fires at the other freaking but but back back in 2018 eight thousand five hundred dollars for a game was very expensive oh and and they'd also tease that there was going to be a triple spinning wheel and a chest that opened and then they took those out so people were just like on principle i ain't buying it i'm buying it yeah johnny deb is not there the music is not there the the coffin doesn't open the gold chest doesn't open so yeah negative nancy's but But it is what it is, man. But on the collector's edition, we bought a chest that opens. So I'm going to show that someday on a video. Yeah, I just played it at a buddy's house over in Australia, and he had that in there. And the fog machine is fucking awesome.
    30:50
    And so, like, that game was super fun, man. Yeah. I love that game. It just needs the music also. that that ship with those small does it call is it called those lamps we call them lanterna in danish lanterns is it called lanterns yeah with the glow it has got four yeah four lanterns on the ship come on that's some of the coolest things on a pinball machine i love them yeah and you know the game is like taking place like at night under a starry sky but like the playfield doesn't look really dark you know oh i love it like the lighting is really good but it's like got an atmosphere dude i love it man and it's based on a disney ride come on man that's like what did it have did you play the ellie i think so what did it have between the flippers no i think it was johnny dab yes it wasn't like it wasn't the because ellie had uh uh davy jones right yes No, the collector's edition. Oh. The collector's edition has the Davy Jones and, you know, seashells and everything on the… Apron? Yeah. No, not apron. The sides, what are they called? Art blades? Art blades, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Sheeshelf, all over the place. Just right, retro Django. Yeah, Pirate Sea, and you can see my unboxing video. It's a great game, man. I think that's one of the most expensive games still today. Yeah. The new version. And I'm sure they looked at rerunning it and they're like, you know, I don't get this. We're not set up for wide bodies. You just have to get another pin cart and go up another play field. Like, that doesn't make sense to me. How hard can it be? Yeah, come on. American Pinball's got a bunch of wide body carts for sale probably.
    32:34
    Right down the street. How hard can it be? All right, all right. That was JJP. Yeah. All right. next company is spooky pinball yeah yeah dude spooky they've had a story we're gonna get top three there but my number three i haven't played this game okay i like this game to be at my number three because i have seen so many videos everything blah blah blah and it's evil dead that's on my number three i haven't played it but you have shown me on a live video while you played it so So, yeah, that's on my number three. Spooky Pinball can make a white body game.
    33:14
    Heck, yeah, they can. I love white bodies. And this game, it has got so much stuff on the sides, so it feels like a standard body when you play the game. So very well designed. I love it. More white bodies, please. Yeah, should be leaving the factories hopefully soon. Haven't heard of when the first one's coming out yet, but, God, I can't wait. It's close. Any day now, any day now. I know they're actively in production. Now they're always a little slow to roll out the first couple because they're going through them ten times before they go out. But then they pick up speed from there. So, yeah, not a bad choice. Not a bad choice. Not my number three. I just think it's only because I think it's a little too early to judge it amongst the pantheon of their games. But I dig where you're going there. I'm going to throw one that is just fun, just hilarious, and it was one I owned, and that's Rick and Morty. for my number three spooky out of like just all these cool themes and all these fun things that they've done in pinball from hollow I've owned everything from Rick and Morty up now and well except for we won't talk about Ultraman but as far as like Ultraman right? I had a Halloween so and you know that code was pretty much copy paste so I didn't jump in there and get one I don't think I need Ultraman but even though I'm a completist but Rick and Morty as far as just the humor and capturing the theme of that show in a game that's also kind of brutally fun to play.
    34:41
    You know, if the shots were more modern, I think if that game was redone now, it'd be number one for sure. But still, the theme alone. It's so funny. What a theme to get. Yeah. I mean, spooky. Come on. Talking about themes. Rick and Morty is absolutely amazing, man. The lock is lit, and so am I. Like, God, it's great, man. It's so fun. Do you got one out there?
    35:10
    No, because back then we had no distros, but I have seen the game on the show, so, yeah. The game's great, yeah.
    35:19
    But, yeah, if that should compete with Evil Dead, Evil Dead will destroy it, man. I'm sorry. It will destroy it. Yeah, yeah. Evil Dead's got more packed into it, more fleshed out code, completely two movies. Rick and Morty never got later season updates with new modes or anything. So it's very much just stuck in its own little time bubble.
    35:43
    It's a good game. No hate, no hate. But, yeah, I will hand it over to Evil Dead for sure because it looks like, yeah, it's probably going to be their best game.
    35:53
    I'm going to take my number one and two in one picking. Because yesterday I also played Looney Tunes. Yeah, you lost. Yeah. And then my bro says, oh, it has got a code update. I didn't install it. Well, install it then.
    36:11
    So my number one is Looney Tunes. What? And, yeah, that's my number one. Nice. Absolutely at Spooky. I love that game. Donnie, for me, shots and layout is so important. I agree. And you get Looney Tunes shots and layout. Come on. It's so well done. Those four rams, flippers. I know they have newer games out now, but if you're looking for a fun and, you know, great shooting game, Looney Tunes, order one. Call me up. I can sell you one. Dude, I play it daily. And my number two is the same layout, but it's with Texas Chainsaw. Oh, my God. I mean, how cool is that?
    36:53
    Have you got to play a Texas Chainsaw yet? No. And I will never buy that because of the theme. But personally, in my home, I would love to have that game. The vibe is so much different. But, like, the shots are still really good because it's the same layout. And it's coded from another team, so they're different. It's so cool, like, to play a familiar layout but with a completely different emotional tie to it. I'm going to put Looney Tunes as my number two. Okay, fair. It's for all the same reasons you do. Like, Looney Tunes has great shots and approachable code, and it's just kind of fun.
    37:32
    Fun. Call-outs. Remember the call-outs. Amazing call-outs. But number one, I'm putting Texas Chainsaw Massacre because while the layout is great, there's more emotions that you get from this game. You get humor. You get fun. But you get fear, terror, panic. There's just more. Dear listener, finally, a year later. A year. We have waited a year, Donny, to say which one of these two games he likes the most, and it's TCM. They're close, but just you get a much more emotional response to, like, yeah, this mature theme. Oh, my God. But, yeah, I got love for Looney Tunes, obviously. Man, Spook is killing it.
    38:16
    I mean, first of all, shots on layout. The shots on layout on Evil Dead is also good. It's so important because they had some shots on layout issues before, but those days are gone and done, Don. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Forget about that. Yeah, QC is better. Price, value, like everything. Oh. A price? Yeah. It's still from the old days. Yeah. Those days are not gone. They're not talking about price increases. No, nothing like that. They're still trying to keep it at under 10K, which means that it costs like a yeah for us it will cost 13k and that's the limit don't go over 10k spooky yeah oh look your patreon supporters give them a lather oh it's so cool dude i ain't even mad about that yeah those guys are homies too um they're all supporting us so cool if i was talented these are the types of games i would be making you know yeah like so that's theme integration number one yeah name me another company that theme integrates i mean eric menier for the last many many years yes but spooky team with the evil bit the theme integration i've said it before i'm saying it again i'm not saying like stern can't top them in terms of what's included it's just you know they when they're brainstorming they probably think up all kinds of stuff to put in their games but then it's kind of like okay but here's our budget you know if we lose that we can include this you know and so they just don't come out with as much in there you know whereas spooky is like that's also when you when you talk about stern that theme integration is also is it flat plastic or a molded thing you're shooting at yeah that's also a part of the theme integration and that's where spooky is really strong yeah so like dungeon dragons has a great dragon um yes they don't have a great dungeon entrance it's just little thing that pops up. It's not like this sculpted, you know, enter this cave of wonder, mystery, and let's see what happens. You know? That game needs a dungeon shot. Yeah, yeah. Evil Dead, or like, yeah, there's a, the under flipper shot is like the hidden palace or something they call it. There's absolutely nothing there, though. It's just a rollover switch. There's no, nothing sculpted up there, nothing that opens up, nothing that's like locked, and then a drop target has to go to get in there. So, it's all going to be on the screen. Doesn't mean the game's not bad. Doesn't mean they didn't think of that, but They have budget metrics for where they want to get their product and launch at, and Spooky doesn't have that corporate overlord mentality.
    40:51
    Yeah. I mean, that's why we're constantly saying that 2024, they killed it that year, and I'm hoping. Yeah. I come out with tons of mods for Stern Games. I have trouble with some of the recent Spookys because they're already pretty loaded.
    41:08
    Yeah. You need a topper? No, you don't. You don't. Yeah, right. No, you don't. You don't need a shooter rod, that's for sure. Come on, guys. Give me a game with a shooter rod. Have you ordered that Evil Dead topper? Not yet, but I'm probably going to once it gets ready to be built. That topper is spooky, right? It's unsettling, yeah. Yeah, it's creepy. It's fantastic. How is the normal collector's edition topper? I don't remember. Is it good? I don't know if they ever showed it because, like, everything they've shown has the big one on there. The one that I saw was Similar to like Texas Chainsaw Massacre I don't think it was I can't remember if there was a big chainsaw But it got the characters Some layers of depth there So better than you get with like the JJP plastic toppers that you get with Elton and such Yeah Oh the Elton topper I watched it again, played it yesterday. Darn it, it's good. Yeah, there's a CE topper? Yeah, that's pretty good. And the Godfather topper was fantastic. I forgot about those machine gun shots. Yeah. I was like, woo! Yeah, yeah. And they even came out with, like, an aftermarket LE topper, too, that still had some, you know, interactivity to it. So I like J.J.P.'s topper game, man. Yeah. Yeah, on the CEs, they're awesome. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I think this week I will unbox the Avatar, and the thing I'm looking most forward to is the topper on the CE. Come on, everybody. It's cool. Like, imagine the Mandalorian topper, right, where it had that projection effect there. Awesome. the full width of the top of the back box. And it's actually usable information up there. So it's dope.
    42:50
    More of that. I would like to have something like that at the back side of the play field. Located on this purposeful chair where the DMD screen is. I love what Barrels of Fun did with Labyrinth, putting a screen back there. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, but that topper from avatar put that in there with all the information because that's where you're looking when you're playing that could be so great yeah you know how heavy that play field would be when you lift it up though if that was down there forget it yeah it could be awesome man all right uh that was spooky okay we were pretty uh pretty yeah the same there so the next one on The list is Bella Williams games from the 90s. Oh, yes. This is the best era of pinball, I think. I mean, modern era is probably the best tactically, but come on. 90s, yeah. This is where we grew up. Nostalgic love. Fish Tales, Star Trek The Next Generation.
    43:58
    I'm sure there was another Black Knight in there. Addams Family, Terminator, Demolition Man, Johnny Manone, Josh Dredd, Twilight Zone, white water ice speed two whirlwind whirlwind yeah that's from 90 yeah oh yeah um yeah so yeah this list top three oh this is not this is not the this is not easy because they will change all the time and and i know you're not this much into these old games so i was in the beginning i I was like, let's choose WPC 89 and WPC 95, and you will just be more and more confused if you went into that. So we're just going to say the 90s. Okay. So right now. There's so many good games. Yes. For me right now, top three, Bella Williams 90s games at number three is No Good Gophers. Oh, okay. So Toy Story 4 before there was Toy Story 4. Yeah, for sure. I enjoyed that game more than Toy Story 4. It's so fun to shoot. Shot the layout, call outs. The music is goofy. It's just goofy, campy. It's a fun game. And that ramp that shoots the ball up to the huge plexiglass at the back. Love that game. A clever way to do the ramp, too. Just have it drop down from the top. You don't have to worry about cutting the mechanism in a play field. Yeah, it was interesting. It's good, man. What's your number three? I like that game. Now, this is just my personal reason, but I'm going to go with Diner, 1990s release.
    45:36
    Only because I have like 1990s. Okay, okay. I'm on kinetic system. Yeah, I'd have a Frankfurter and a root beer. Yes, every time. The little characters in the back of the diner. A stupid theme that is stupid fun to play. Original themes can be fun if they were like this. If Berrio's Barbecue Challenge was like taking place inside of a barbecue restaurant, and had aspects of this, I would be – I'd be in there. With that kind of back glass with the shaking head. Yeah, and you have the cash register that's back there. You've got a fun way to do skill shots where it's like, okay, keep spinning. Keep spinning around. Like it took like the Cactus Canyon type approach. I'd like a root beer. Yeah, and just like racially insensitive stereotypes. Like, oh, it's great, man. And it was the 90s, okay. Yeah, it's like a follow-up to Taxi, I think. I think they took taxi.
    46:31
    If Barrios Barbecue Challenge is more like a taxi, if it was more like a diner, I think it would have a better chance of being a more memorable game.
    46:38
    It's got the clock. Great pick there. I have a sweet spot with those System of Living games. I love them. I still want one. But if these two games they should compare, I would say my game will win. I'm so sorry, Donnie. But no good gophers will destroy that game. I mean, there's more there. So, yeah. And, again, I'm picking this because, like, I played this game a lot when I was a kid at the laundromat. Because it was the only pinball machine that was there. Yeah, great game. I mean, if they remade this game, I would buy it. I love to play it. Absolutely. I'm bringing the heat with my next one. So go ahead. What do you got? My number two.
    47:21
    No listener would agree with this. but I love to play this game right now second most loved belly Williams games you're going down Johnny Mennonick I love Johnny Mennonick I love it I love it nobody likes it it's cheap the hand is weird yeah it's got this robot hand what I do I'm making a long distance call i love this game it's awesome man just so that's my number two out of all the amazing williams games if i i can just choose what to play and that's the one i'm turning on very much in the tradition of a bad movie being an awesome game yeah all right i'll give it to you there but i got i got a uno reverse card here man i got i got some heat coming out of 1993 and you guess what it is. 9-3, we had Indiana Jones. Yeah, it's not that. We had Twilight Zone. Ah, not that one. Not that. We had Whitewater. Yes, sir, Whitewater. The Whitewater Splashtacular Adventure.
    48:27
    With a topper that looked like it belonged on the wall of a bar, like advertising some kind of cheap beer, because it had that reflective, weird effect. Man, I love this game. That rollercoaster ramp that's on there. This was a game that took the layout and just turned it on its head you i mean nowadays every time a game comes out every somebody will say oh fan layout like every game's a fan layout like this is the most non-fan layout i think you could get right so cool i mean that upper upper area not even playful just upper area it's it feels like really one and a half pinball machine yeah and it's almost two pinball machines I really want to get up there because that's how I get to that sweet-ass ramp on the left. And, like, it's so satisfying when you get it in there and it makes it through the whole course. I love that, man. Silly theme. Also goes down to the whirlwind when the Bogos whirlwinds down and goes down between the pop bombers. It's cool. Oh, so good. It's like that Boulder Canyon. Your name will destroy my Johnny Mennonick. Yes. but in this case we have got whitewater and johnny mononick just next to it in our one of our arcades and i would personally play johnny mononick i'm sorry that's just how i feel right now tomorrow it could change but i love your pick i love that game thank you thank you sir a lot of thought one of this one so number uno yeah i mean i know what it's gonna be i know what it's gonna be Just go ahead and say it. I know you're going to pick Star Wars Episode I from 1999. Pinball 2000.
    50:07
    Just kidding. I'm kidding. Go ahead. What's your number one? Dude, I was drinking right there. All right. Actually, my number one is a game that's rumored to be remade. Oh, my God. We picked the same fucking one. All right. Go ahead.
    50:24
    Totem. Yep. That's it. I love it. Tales of the Arabian Nights is better than Twilight Zone, better than even Indiana Jones theme park adventure or whatever. Yes, it's so good. And it's so much more fun to shoot than Medieval Madness. Fun. So much fun. Fun. I mean, the ramp, one entrance and three exits or four exits, it has got hidden shot. You can sneak into the tent, into the Arabian harem, and the girls are laughing. and you can sneak in there. It has got so many magnets. I cannot. Levitating magnets. It has got everything. The lamp, I mean. The lamp in the middle. When you shoot the lamp enough times, it will start a lightning mode, and every time it turns, it will make this lightning mode and music. Oh, it's so good. Even when you drain, you're like, please let me go through three pages of lights for the bonus. You can just hold both flippers down and go down. I love it, dude. Yeah. The little cage that comes up around the out lane there, or the in lane to grab the ball. Oh, come on. A disappearing magnet under the play field. It's so many things. They didn't need to put it in, but they did. How about that bash card genie? It's so good when you bash him. He will throw the ball down to you with the magnet. And how about, yeah, put the bash toy all the way at the back of the play field so, like, it's not just a total dick kicker, right? And really see that bash toy move. Yeah. Get him, I mean, see him getting bashed, you know. That's such a cool feeling. Also, when you start the genie mode, it throws fireballs at you. You need to hit the ramp. And when you go up to the ramp, it will grab the ball with a vertical magnet and sock the ball in there and shoot the ball back to you with a wire form across the play field. Can you imagine this remake coming out with, like, gold armor and, like, Brian Allen's alternate artwork that's amazing. And it's just, like, everything is brand new and functioning. Big screen. Big screen. Yeah. Maybe a 2.0 code also so you can play, like, alternate. Yeah.
    52:47
    And this game you can shoot the ball into the bazaar and then you can choose something. or the other thing you choose is complete a mode. So if you do that seven times, you will complete the game in ten minutes. That mode, that picking should just be erased from the code. You should not be allowed to choose the Bazaar, you know, complete the code. If you remove that, it will make the game so much more enjoyable. I never complete the game like that. If you told me, Don, CGC is running Medieval Madness is off the line right now, You can have the first one right now, MSRP, just go pick it up this afternoon, or get a Totem. I would go get Totem over Medieval Madness. Oh, yes, baby. Oh, yes. Yeah. So it's so cool. So did you pick this game also? I've been looking. I got Kineticist's site up here. I got all the Valley Williams games, and I've been scrolling through them, and it's like, yeah, that would be number one because I like it more than Monster Bash, more than Medieval Madness, more than Gophers, more than Junkyard even. Oh, Junkyard is junk. Like, junk. Can I just give an honorable mention to, like, Congo and No Fear as just fun games and Flintstones? Come on. Dude, Congo is awesome. Yeah. God, I love Congo. My honorable mention will be Monster Bash. I still like that game. Yeah. I really do, Donnie. I really do. I mean, World of Classics here, man. I mean, Bella Williams. Oh, my God. Roller Games. No, fuck Roller Games. You know what, Billy Williams game that no one likes that I enjoy? Yeah. That's actually Judge Threat. No one likes this game. I enjoy it. Yeah, it was a fan layout. Why thought he gave... Everything is a fan layout. All right. So that's probably the non-fan-est layout you could possibly have.
    54:42
    On Judge Threat with the red flipper, you need to shoot all the way back to the right. I still don't know where the shots go in that game. You shoot all the way back to the right. It's a long shot, and it has got this little scope. You need to hit it up in there, and it pops the ball up, and the ball falls down, and you can hear this guy falling down. I can see my house from here. I love that shot. It's so good. And the in-game music is soft core 90s porn music. So good. I love that game. Nobody likes it. Just like Johnny Mononick. Cheap games, but you can still have fun. If you want pinball on a budget, go out, buy a Johnny Mononick, buy a Josh Strett. You will have a blast. I'm telling you.
    55:29
    Johnny Mononick. Yeah, Johnny Mononick. Well, cool, man. That was fun. All right. Yeah. So, Bella Williams, 80s games. My number three is Space Station from 1987. Not a bad game. What a bad game. Not a bad game. It's a cool game, man, with that rotating space station at the back. Whoa, I love that. The music of space station. You have to search Tutt Tucky TNT space station. I mean, he plays the music on his videos. Whoa, love it, love it, love it. That's my number three. What's your number three? I'm looking at it here.
    56:08
    I played space station at some pizza place in Ohio. Sure you did. cool like i don't you know i don't there's a lot of garbage in here um oh it's a stimulating games yeah what am i gonna say pin bot probably bride of pin bot because i do legitimately enjoy playing that and trying to get her to her final form oh that's it i think it's from 90 you cannot wait wait wait wait isn't brother pinball from 90 i think it's from 90 let me check all right they we're checking we're checking i was scrolling through i thought i saw it there big guns millionaire space station f-14 time we got fire grand lizard high speed pin bot road kings oh yeah maybe it is all right fine forget it i thought i saw in the 80s maybe it is a 90s game all right i don't know taxi sure oh oh oh i think taxi will win over my game yeah in a general choosing but yeah great choice i like taxi okay that that one goes to you buddy I love Space Station. Okay, number two, my number two, one of the awesomest pinball music in the history of pinball. Oh, Millionaire. Swords of Fury. Oh, Swords of Fury, yeah, I was just looking at that. Lion Man. Come on. Yes. Makes no sense at all. Really interesting shots in this game. Yeah. Yeah, like they were really breaking out of the mold there a little bit, you know. As I remember, that game had two designers, so it's just all over the place, the design. But the music just makes it for me. I mean, compare that to a game like Millionaire, right? Where it's just like, because Millionaire is weird too, but like not in a great way. Yeah, yeah. But Swords of Fury, yeah. Okay, what do I put up against Swords of Fury? I'll probably drop Bonsai Run.
    57:55
    Because this is a game that's fun to play. Again, it's really weird. Kind of hard to find. First petaluma game. Yeah, but like, come on. You put a play field in the back box. And I've been able to successfully complete it too. So that's been fun.
    58:11
    Nice, man. It's a heavy game if you buy that game. It's a really, really heavy game. Yeah, I'm never moving that thing. But, yeah, I don't know. It holds a good price, actually. Yeah, yeah. It just seems like a maintenance nightmare. Oh, yeah. It's two games, man. Yeah.
    58:29
    But still, I would choose Souls of Fury just because of the music. I love it. Freaking 80s. All right. number one oh you will never guess this but i'm gonna tell you my number one 80s pinball machine this one i enjoyed like crazy it's a cheap game i won't say nobody likes it but cheap game mousing around oh shut the front door dude i love mousing around how come that's not on here what year is that it's such a fun pin mousing around the way you lock them balls it's just oh no i'm I'm with you. I'm just looking through.
    59:08
    Oh, is there an error here where Mouse and Rounds not listed on Kineticist's list that I'm picking from?
    59:15
    I don't see it. Send me the link. I can check it out. But it is an awesome 80s game. I've looked for this game a couple of times. Yeah, it's Valley. Oh, I'm looking at Williams maybe, and this is technically Valley it says. Maybe that's why I didn't show up on the list there. All right, yeah. I'm looking for this game, but it has to be. If I want the game in my house, it needs to be in good, good condition. And this game was out, you know, on locations, and they got beat up, man. Yeah, those plastic ramps getting beat to shit. There's one for sale in Virginia. There's one for sale in Virginia, $3,500, not a terrible price. But how is the condition? It's a very nice LED game, clean boards, new LED displays.
    59:57
    But how is the play field? How is the cabinet? I don't care about the LEDs installed. Some people think, oh, LOD is installed, then it has to cost a lot of money. But that's not the play field. Is it worn out? How does it look under the play field? Is it black? Is it dusty? Is the cabinet scratched? There's so many stuff. Who cares about LODs? Yeah. Why don't they remake Funhaus? Why don't they remake Mouse and Around? Oh, I will.
    60:22
    Donnie, I want to say something about these remakes with Funhaus. Yeah. If you want to remake a Bella Williams game, you need to use 100% Bella Williams parts. Right. Agreed. Yeah. I'm just – if you don't do that, it doesn't feel like Bella Williams. That's the only thing I'm going to say.
    60:48
    Yeah. But yeah, remake Miles Morales and I will order it day one. What's your top picking? I was going to say Gilligan's Island, but that was 1991. That's 91. That's the first with the D&D display.
    61:08
    And right after that, we had Terminator 2. These are all Williams. Let me look at Bally's. I was just looking at the Williams list. What are some Bally games from the 80s?
    61:21
    Earth Shaker? Eh. Oh, that's a good game. Police Force. Did Hurricane come out in the 80s? No, no, no. Damn it.
    61:31
    Hurricane is a horrible game. Like horrible is as bad as – I like the two Ferris wheels. Worst games I have owned, Hurricane, Junkyard, Fire. Yeah, Fire is so stinky bad. And a game from Gottlieb called – it's a basketball game.
    61:55
    What's it called, man? Shag Attack. Oh, my God. Oh, hey, I got it. All right, I got it. I'm winning this one. You ready? Not Truck Stop. Not Black One. Not Escape from the Lost World. I'm going with Elvira and the Party Monsters, 1989. Oh, no. Boom. Yes. You win. Yeah, that's from 89. I love this game, man. We used to play this at the... What a game. There was a diner across from the pizza place I worked at, and they had an Elvira, and on My break time, I'd go over there and play it. Hell yes.
    62:29
    Still holds up. That's a bit expensive still to this day. They hold the prize. Elvira and the Party Monsters. Good jiggy boys. Great game. Yeah, great game, man. Love it Yeah there are two available On the left side it has got this skull you shoot in to lock the ball Yeah You need something like that on Dungeons Dragons Something like that you shoot the ball in, a sculpted skull or dungeon entrance. I hoped on stuff like that, but yeah. This is the best of the 80s, man.
    63:04
    I love 80s. Good rams, interesting plastics, pop bumpers, the skull you shoot into, Elvira, Wireform, Sexual Innuendo. It's all there, man. Someday we should rate all the System 11 games. They are just all Bella Williams System 11s. They're just awesome. They have so many great games. All the way up to, actually, let me see. I think all up to, you know, Funhaus. No, Funhaus was actually WPC 89.
    63:39
    What was the last one? Yeah, System 11C game. So, yeah, up to the 90. But, yeah, game's good, man. I love it. I dig it. More of that, please. More of that. Yes. All right. Next company is, oh, my favorite, Data East. Oh, shoot. Yeah. I haven't played their games.
    64:02
    I have played five. I mean, for years and years, I was like, just like 99% of all the people, Data East sucked. So I never played them. I owned them. I just, you know, gave two, three Dead Ace games to get one Bella Williams game. That's how it was. I never played them, never used my time on them. They were cheap. They're still cheap. But right now, yeah, back in 2024, I got these almost new-looking Dead Ace games, installed Pinsound, AudioBart, and it's just so enjoyable. So number three on my Dead Ace list is Last Action Heroes. Not a bad game. They came with Last Action Hero to compete against Bella Williams, Adam's family. So they put three magnets under the play field. They put a big crane instead of the hand. They put spinner. They put locks. What are they called? Scoop shots. Three scoop shots. they just it has got shaker it has got topper it has got everything this game i love last action hero and with mine i got for all the i think it has got 18 modes all the mode has got five different 90s rock songs to choose from so i love this game and playing to yeah listening to metallica acdc love it so that's my number three which one did you choose not a bad game but i'm gonna go with Jurassic Park just because of the Tyrannosaurus would eat the ball when you got up there in that little saucer lock.
    65:45
    You know, shots and everything seemed perfect for the time. Huge license. Jurassic Park was everywhere.
    65:53
    You know, and I think it did a lot better than Last Action Hero, for sure. How could they at least get those licenses back then? So I think what happened was, as part of the marketing budget at the time, the studios would say, okay, let's put out Slurpees, let's put out McDonald's toys, let's get a pinball machine going. And so they were just giving these things out, like somebody make something, right? And they were doing it before they even knew the movie was a hit. Nowadays, they're looking back, like what movies are huge licenses? Let's make a game off of that. Before, it was like, well, Jurassic Park was brand new. Yeah, it was going to be revolutionary, but no one knew that yet at the time. It hadn't released, so it was just part of the marketing budget. You know, let's throw a game out there and put something in the foyer of the movie theater for the kids to play. So, yeah, I think Dead East was the one that was there, the precursor to Stern. So, yeah, that would have been the one. But my Dead East games, you know, when the game is over, it will scroll all the names, and most of them they will say John Bork, Lyman F. Sheets. And the third name that comes out is the guy that got Back to the Future license. What's his name? Oh, Kaminkow?
    67:06
    Kaminkow, yes. Yes, his name is under licensed game designer, game licensor. He was at Data East. I think it was Kaminkow that got these amazing themes back then, man. So, yeah, he's on the display on the 30s games back then. Back, yeah, in the 90s. What a great guy. I think Jurassic Park is a slightly better game than Last Action Hero, but I get how. Everybody will agree with you. Yeah, everybody would agree with you. My issue is, theme-wise, I don't like dinosaurs. I don't care for Jurassic Park. And theme-wise, this is Arnold. Nothing is better. Nothing comes close. I would say this literally comes close. But yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. All right. Number two. My number two, this is a game that I enjoy. Yeah. Like Stern enjoy. Okay. Star Wars 1992. Oh, yeah. John Borg. I mean, this is some serious shit. It's fun to shoot that Death Star. Yeah. Yes. Every time you shoot the Death Star, a new light will lit up with different moons. You know, Hoth and all those moons and planets. And then when you come close enough, it will open up and you shoot in there and you get the tri-ball. Not multi-ball, but tri-ball. And it's so good. Star Wars call-out music. I love that R2 ramp with the little loop in it. We'll see that used again later in another game. But, yeah, that's fun every time. Yeah, that's not a bad game. That's not a bad game. That's my number two. I love it. My number two, I also love playing, and I also don't think it's going to be ranked as high as Star Wars. But every time the bonus counts down, it's like, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah.
    68:58
    WWF Royal Rumble, man. White Buddy, White Buddy. Yeah. Undertaker. I love it, dude. Hulk Hogan, Undertaker. Everybody's in there. It's the 90s. I love the 90s. I can't walk by this game without throwing some quarters in it and playing it. just a yeah yeah yeah oh yeah so annoying god i love it that game was awesome it's like the one thing the one thing missing from stern's wrestlemania is there's no macho man in there come on oh yeah yeah i put him in in form of art blade and and i i made apron cards and all kinds of stuff for him but so he's in my game but not not uh emotionally or amazing call outs man love it absolutely yeah all right all right but star wars will beat that yeah okay all right i think we're picking we're gonna pick the same game for number one again no we're not what no we're not i'm sorry no we're not i'm gonna pick lethal weapon three i'm gonna pick the cheapest dead ace game out there the least popular dead ace game out there and it is lethal weapon three I love Lethal Weapon 3. Dude, it's John Borg, as I remember, and it has got the smoothest orbit spinner shots. It has got, you know, spinner on left and right side. You rev those spinners and, you know, put in, you build your Uzi up and just empty it with the gun at the front. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Either that or shoot scoop one, two, three. That's the whole game. But again, in my game, it has got Pinsound Card and it has got 90s Eurodance music. It's just Eurodance and Dr. Elvin, What is Love and all that, like 45 songs from the 90s. When I play that game, it's a blast like nothing else. Love it. But my honorable mention, Tales from the Crypt. Yeah, yeah. That's my number one. That's the only Data East I've owned. I put your sound mod in it, so it played Journey for some reason all the time. It's pretty strange. But, again, it's got that ramp with the loop in it. I love that. It's satisfying to hit every time. It's got the 180 ramp, right? The right ramp is a complete bitch and a half, but when you hit it at the right time, oh, it's some good times, man. And that spinner in the middle.
    71:32
    Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. It's got the spinner in the middle. There's like four spinners in that game. They're all over the place. It's so good. I love that game. The little crypt that comes up? Yeah, the tomb entrance that comes up and down. Oh, yes, yes, yes. And the guillotine, those drop-down targets when it chops the head. It's so good.
    71:51
    Awesome game. And if we asked people, everybody would choose your Tales from the Crypt. But me, it's all about Lethal Weapon 3. I love it, man. But, yeah, it needs to have the pain sound. Other than that, it doesn't work. Last company I would rate games from is American Pinball. Oh, I can't wait. They just lost their president. Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah, yeah. People, if you want to hear in-depth what's going on with American Pinball, jump in our Patreon and check out show number 20 on Patreon. Donnie has been in David Fix's office three days ago and you can hear every detail in there and people that listened to that one loved it so if you want stuff like that go into our Patreon support us five bucks and you can listen to all those shows what can I say I'm a giver man yeah so number three for me American Pinball Games we own them all on location Number three is NA Not available for me Cannot choose I like two American Pinball games So I have no number three That's fucking dirty I was going to say Hot Wheels or something No Hot Wheels sucks I know but You can buy it from me but it sucks Yeah but like the third best game I don't know Come on It sucks it cannot be number three when it sucks We have the What's the – This is not going to be a satisfying list. Why are we doing American Pinball? Because they have got two good games. Oh, all right. What's your number three? I was going to say Hot Wheels.
    73:42
    Do you like that empty game? No, I don't really like any of them. No, don't choose it then. I got to say something. Okay, fine.
    73:50
    What's that magician game? With Houdini? Yeah, Houdini. Oh, my God, those shots. They're not easy? Yeah. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't get it. I don't like it. Okay, you win with your Hot Wheels. All right, thank you. Okay, let's jump to number two, American Pinball. This game, I like it. It's called Oktoberfest. Oh, my God. That's a fun game. It's German, yeah, German ladies with beers and German music. That is cultural misappropriation. No, the characters on the back glass are just so off-putting in their design. Like, what the heck, man? They look like demented garden gnomes. I don't know. But those ramps, Donnie. Whatever, dude. You've got to play, like, for an hour to get that diverter to drop so you can even get up into that cool ramp. It's there teasing you the whole time. It's the coolest ramp that we've seen in, like, decades. And you can't get in there until, like, I don't know, you've got to figure out the modes or something, get that flap to drop. Then you can get up there. And it's like, come on, man. Then you can get up. Yeah. So what's your number two? Let me see if you can destroy that one. I don't have a number two. Ah!
    75:04
    Darn it. Yeah. I will if they – well, no. Well, actually, yeah. I'll have a number two if they get this new game released because that will be my number one for sure. Oh, it's awesome.
    75:17
    Yeah. I hope it happens. You told us everything about that when you were in and playing that game. Yeah. It's on Patreon again. if you want all the details, guys, about their upcoming game. It sounds – I cannot wait. I did not say – I'm under NDA, so I can't say everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I did talk about – I'm allowed to talk about impressions, and so that's what I did. You played the game, and yeah, you're impressed. Yeah, that's what I meant.
    75:44
    No NDA stuff. All right, all right. So I think we pretty much agree on Legends of Valhalla as number one. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. That's a good game. But that's not an American pinball game. It's a Riot game. That's a Riot game. That they built.
    76:00
    But if we're going by games that left the factory, that's my favorite one, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Great music package, audio package, call-out. Shots are awesome. Yeah. The magnet at the ship is awesome. Why couldn't Galactic Tank Force shoot like that? Yeah, man. Odin's hammer is awesome. They didn't put a Viking ship down between the flippers. it's going to make your balls drain constantly on Valhalla, you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh, my. The ship, when you lock the ball with the upper left flipper. That's fun. It has got the sound of the horse, the Viking horns. There's that magnet that's underneath there. Yeah. That magnet there, it's so magical. All the games should have the magnet like that. It's so good. It reminds me of the magnet on the game you played when I called you. Oh, Pulp Fiction, yeah. Yeah, it's so good. Guys, so I hit up Donnie this morning. It's very early for him. Fair has to be fair. It's very early. So I just hit him up. Donnie, you want to do a show? I know we just did it three days ago. And he was like, bro, it's early, but yeah, give me 20 minutes and I'm ready. And I was like, yeah, okay. So I turn on the PC and prepare myself, you know, write all these details down, write. So I'm like, 20 minutes are over. Where's Donnie? 25 minutes. Where's Donnie? 30 minutes. Where is Donnie? So I call him up with the camera on. I call him up. He takes the phone. What's up, man? I'm playing Pulp Fiction.
    77:29
    What? I got distracted. Yeah. So me, I was like, dude, let me see the gameplay. So I just sat here watching him play the game. We're very easy to amuse here at We Are Pinball. Donnie. Yeah, we love this. So, yeah, yeah. So we did it anyway. So this was just a bonus episode to our listeners. Why not? My numbers are going up. Patreon people are going up. It's Monday. The support is going up. Yeah, why not? Why not just make a little show like this, right, Donnie? Yeah, of course. And then, you know, who knows what's going to happen this next week. This year has been off to a crazy news start. Yeah, yeah. Pinball at the Beach is coming up. More people are going to play Evil Dead. It's going to start leaving the factory. Kong's around the corner. D&D's going into production. Ghostbusters Remastered will be at some point. the Star Wars Episode I game from Stern is supposed to come out later this year. Why? I have no idea. I don't want to play Jar Jar. I don't want battle droids. I don't want pod racing ever again in my life.
    78:31
    I still hope it's not Episode I. It's going to be all three. Please, just please come out with Episode IV. I don't even know what the Skeletor is. IV, V, VI. Yeah. Oh, yeah. In one game. That would be fun. I'd be in on that. Yeah. Five in all. Oh, episode five with Hoth, all that snow everywhere. Oh, it's going to be awesome. Make it like that. I don't want to do the quest of the whole casino thing. That was stupid. The whole O.J. Simpson chase in space, that was dumb.
    79:04
    So, yeah, maybe – oh, and wait. Oh, I'm sorry. I was thinking of, what, seven, eight, and nine. Forget that. I would take that over one, two, three, six times. The first one, with Jar Jar Binks and, you know, You and the people on a train. Anakin Skywalker and, ah, come on, no. Bus, Ness, multiple. Used to go to Planet Core. God, no. Please, no. Are you a space angel? Oh, get out of here.
    79:38
    I hope it's episode four. Let's wait and see. Yeah. I would go five. Empire Strikes Back. That's the one with Hoth. I think that's what you meant. Yeah. Yeah, and Return of the Jedi. Whoa. That's also, yeah. But they need to make three Star Wars games separately. Yeah. All right. Are you hyped for the Harry Potter game? Sure, I guess. I don't know. We'll see. It's probably going to be expensive, and I don't know.
    80:06
    I can't wait to see what they're bringing out. I just don't think I'm going to have the time or budget or energy to devote to it. It's too big of a license. Everybody's going to be disappointed no matter what they do. Do you really think that it will be a $25,000 game? I don't think so. People say that, but I don't think so, man. They cannot sell a $25,000 game. Who's going to buy it? Are you going to buy it?
    80:35
    $25,000. Hail women with black hair and Jack Skellington tattoos. And Deathly Hallows tattoos would buy it.
    80:43
    Oh, my God. I mean, our dream was this theme to put it on a location, but for that price, I mean, 25 for you is 31,000 for us over here. I'm aware. Yeah, yeah. So what do they want to do? Do they want to sell a small amount of units for a high price, or do they want to make the same money but with more units at lower price? I guess that's what they're running through that algorithm there. But that's going to determine how much you put into the game. If there's one that's completely fully loaded, like fuck the BOM, then that would be like a $25,000 game. But how much – what would you put in a pinball machine that equals, for us in Europe, $31,250? I mean what would you put in there? Seven magnets. I don't know. But still, I mean look – again, we go back to Evil Dead. Under 10K, look at how much stuff we have got in there, right? how much more would you put in to almost triple up the price i kind of think i kind of think they should just do two machines right do one with like the first three films or something where everybody's kind of kids getting the lore started and then do another game it's more mature of like the later movies and that way you can put enough content into both of them and enough ideas into both of them because if you could try to put in you know quidditch and the flying car and azkaban and the cup of whatever and like the later on movies and then like the Ministry of Magic. You're trying to shove in there too. There's not going to be enough room to service all of these things without just putting them on a plastic or something. So I think if you could focus on do like a Hogwarts game and then do like a Ministry of Magic adventure game and have two, I think that would be the way to do it. Will they do that? I don't know. But that's kind of how I would approach it. I think the license is big enough that you could do that. Harry Potter heads, get at me. I'm going to end this show by saying if they want 31,000 from me to pay for one pinball machine every time I play the game the coin door should open a 31 year old beautiful lady should pop out and give me a blowjob while I'm playing pinball have a great day everybody bye
    83:03
    On that note, if you would like to service Jane Gaze, we could be reached at wearepinball69 at gmail.com. Join the Patreon. You already know the way there, apparently. Yeah. And I don't even know what, if we were doing a Patreon bonus episode right now, I don't even know where we would go with it. There's so many directions. There's so many erections. So many erections. So many erections we could go right now. That must be a Dutch term.
    83:29
    Yeah. Remember the 69, everybody. Remember the 69. We are diseased, apparently. Just like Genghis's penis.