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The Pinball Show Ep 19: Dennis Is Fired Up & Zach Is Trending Down

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 26m·analyzed·Jun 22, 2020
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TL;DR

The Pinball Show covers industry news, design philosophy, and community dynamics.

Summary

Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel host The Pinball Show discussing recent pinball industry news, including Jersey Jack's delayed Guns N' Roses announcement, American Pinball's Hot Wheels shipping and expansion, Spooky's Rick and Morty code updates, and detailed analysis of pinball design elements. The hosts share personal Father's Day reflections and navigate community drama on Pinside forums while covering designer insights from Keith Elwin's Final Round Pinball Podcast appearance.

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack Pinball will not announce any pins until they are ready to ship, in contrast to previous announcements with long delays

    high confidence · Ken Cromwell statement reported by Ken Rudberg correspondent segment; attributed to Ken Cromwell's recent podcast

  • American Pinball's Dave Brennan has been working for his first two months assisting customers, working on Hot Wheels manual, and creating instructional videos

    high confidence · Brian Kossner American Pinball update citing direct communication with Dave Brennan

  • Spooky Pinball's Rick and Morty received a new code drop with two new dimensions and multiple fixes

    high confidence · Dr. John SHIT update correspondent segment

  • Jurassic Park was originally supposed to have an upper left flipper instead of upper right, but space constraints prevented it

    high confidence · Keith Elwin statement during Final Round Pinball Podcast episode with hosts Martin Robbins and Jeff Teolis

  • Keith Elwin indicated that theme comes very early in game design, before layout conceptualization

    high confidence · Keith Elwin on Final Round Pinball Podcast discussing design process

  • Guardians of the Galaxy was originally going to be Keith Elwin's Archer layout, but John Borg and Elwin swapped: Borg got Guardians, Elwin got Iron Maiden

    high confidence · Keith Elwin discussion on Final Round Pinball Podcast

  • An upcoming Iron Maiden update is planned despite previous assumption the game was complete

    high confidence · Keith Elwin mentioned on Final Round Pinball Podcast

  • Opto spinner placement is designer's choice but sometimes infeasible due to space constraints, as with Jurassic Park

    high confidence · Keith Elwin on Final Round Pinball Podcast

Notable Quotes

  • “Jersey Jack Pinball will not be announcing any pins until they are ready to ship. This is in contrast to some previous pins from Jersey Jack, which were announced, and then many months passed until they were available.”

    Ken Rudberg (correspondent reporting Ken Cromwell statement) — Signals major shift in Jersey Jack's go-to-market strategy, likely in response to criticism about announcement-to-availability delays

  • “Jurassic Park was supposed to have an upper left flipper instead of an upper right flipper... space did not allow for that upper left flipper.”

    Keith Elwin (via Final Round Pinball Podcast) — Reveals significant layout design constraint that nearly changed core playfield topology of game of the year candidate

  • “Keith Elwin indicated that the theme comes really, really early. So most of the time, it goes well before that design stage.”

    Zach Minney (reporting Keith Elwin) — Clarifies designer process hierarchy: theme licensing/IP locks in before mechanical design begins

  • “Guardians of the Galaxy was actually going to be Keith Elwin's Archer layout... John Borg was actually going to do Iron Maiden, but Elwin said he thinks Borg was kind of getting tired of music pins.”

    Zach Minney (reporting Keith Elwin) — Reveals behind-the-scenes designer swaps and manufacturer strategic decisions about who works on which IP

  • “The opto spinners... it's always the designer's choice but there are times that it's not feasible due to space issues... Jurassic Park as a case in point, he would have liked to have put an opto spinner on that but with the ramp the way the ramp sets and everything it couldn't be done.”

    Zach Minney (reporting Keith Elwin from Final Round Pinball Podcast) — Explains mechanical constraints that prevent use of popular modern spinner technology on otherwise high-design-priority games

  • “I don't understand off-topicness... there are a lot of media members that just don't simply go on Pinsider. They don't follow up with their listeners or their viewers. But that's not us.”

    Dennis Creasel — Indicates differentiation strategy: The Pinball Show hosts engage with community forums actively, contrasting themselves with other media

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonKeith ElwinpersonJohn BorgpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyAmerican PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyKen Rudbergperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball pivots from announcement-heavy model with long lead times to ship-ready announcement strategy, indicating response to prior customer satisfaction/sales timing issues

    high · Ken Cromwell statement via correspondent: 'Jersey Jack Pinball will not be announcing any pins until they are ready to ship. This is in contrast to some previous pins from Jersey Jack, which were announced, and then many months passed until they were available'

  • ?

    community_signal: The Pinball Show hosts distinguish their media approach by active community engagement on Pinside forums, contrasting with other TPN podcasters who do not follow up with listeners/viewers

    medium · Dennis: 'there are a lot of media members that just don't simply go on Pinsider. They don't follow up with their listeners or their viewers. But that's not us. That's not us, Dennis.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Spinner satisfaction derives from optimal combination of mechanical placement, sound design (particularly Jerry Thompson's audio work for Stern), and integration into mode-based gameplay rather than pure point accumulation

    medium · Dennis and Zach discussion: 'A spinner has to be located in a way that it is complete satisfaction, but that alone will not make it one of the best spinner shots... It has to be married with an accompanying sound, a really good sound... I love a game where the spinner is enabled into a mode... Beatles does that really well.'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Keith Elwin's design process: theme licensing locked in early, before layout conceptualization; designer choice drives feature placement (e.g., opto spinners) but space constraints often force compromises

    high · Zach reporting Elwin: 'the theme comes really, really early. So most of the time, it goes well before that design stage... it's always the designer's choice but there are times that it's not feasible due to space issues... Jurassic Park as a case in point, he would have liked to have put an opto spinner on that but with the ramp the way the ramp sets and everything it couldn't be done'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.259

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle.
0:20
It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. welcome back to another episode of the pinball show featured on the pinball network we are your host zach minney and dennis creasel and happy belated father's day to all of you papas out there yeah happy father's day we've had a hell of a week there again man we're on a roll are we it feels like we're rolling uphill oh my gosh am i the sisyphus and you the boulder I don't know what a Sisyphus is. What's a Sisyphus? Is that the person that rolls? Mythology where I had to keep rolling the stone up in hell, and it kept rolling down. That was his punishment. Oh, I don't know. I was going to ask you more if your papa was a rolling stone. Was he done? Wherever he laid his hat, he was home. And when he died, all he left was alone. Papa was a rolling stone So was he a Was Papa Creasel a rolling stone?
1:36
No Though he did travel a lot for work See I'm close It was a Father's Day reference We're talking about rolling stones and papas And what better than the temptations themselves singing a little Papa was a rolling stone. I think it's always how you have to put songs in all the time, even though there's a 100% agreement that you shouldn't sing. And I like it now, merely because it proves my point that you don't listen to me.
2:05
Because people ask, they'll be like, why don't you get Zach to stop whatever, X, Y, or Z? And I'm like, have you not heard the show? He doesn't listen to me about anything. Look, I've found in the last couple weeks that pretty much anything I do is going to piss somebody off. So I just roll with whatever is natural to me and whatever makes my heart pitter-patter. And that's a couple things in life. It's Dennis Creasel. He makes my heart pitter-patter. Pinball, I like that. It's not drama. I don't like that too much. But having a platform is nice too, but people aren't always happy with your co-host, Dennis. Really? I never knew. Do you get the angry messages too? Not as many as you do, I'm sure. Well, no, you know what? I don't get many messages. Well, people don't really like to take time to message. I mean, in the grand scheme of everything going on in the world, pinball drama tends to be relatively unimportant. Yeah, you know, our TPN thread on Pinside has been lit on fire last week. Straight down the middle thread? Because that's all it seems to be about now, Zach. Why can you not get control? Straight Down the Middle doesn't have anything to do with TPN. I don't know what to do. I tried to direct people to the other thread. You've seen that. I did. I saw your half-hearted and very belated effort. Well, we had a discussion first, I think. It was fair. A nice discussion.

  • “A spinner has to be located in a way that it is complete satisfaction, but that alone will not make it one of the best spinner shots in pinball. It has to be married with an accompanying sound, a really good sound.”

    Dennis Creasel — Design philosophy analysis: mechanical placement + audio design = satisfying spinner experience

  • “I love a game where the spinner is enabled into a mode... you've got to have so many spins to complete that mode. Beatles does that really well.”

    Zach Minney — Discusses preferred spinner design pattern: task-based spinner usage vs. point accumulation

    • Ken Cromwellperson
    Dave Brennanperson
    Brian Kossnerperson
    Dr. Johnperson
    Chris Chandlerperson
    Jeff Teolisperson
    Martin Robbinsperson
    Jerry Thompsonperson
    Guns N' Rosesproduct
    Hot Wheelsproduct
    Jurassic Parkproduct
    Iron Maidenproduct
    Rick and Mortyproduct
    The Pinball Showproduct
    Final Round Pinball Podcastproduct
  • ?

    personnel_signal: John Borg and Keith Elwin swapped game assignments: Guardians of the Galaxy (originally Elwin's Archer layout) went to Borg; Iron Maiden went to Elwin; Borg reportedly fatigued from consecutive music pin designs

    high · Zach reporting Elwin: 'Guardians of the Galaxy was actually going to be Keith Elwin's Archer layout... John Borg was actually going to do Iron Maiden, but Elwin said he thinks Borg was kind of getting tired of music pins because he was on a row of those'

  • ?

    announcement: American Pinball's Hot Wheels in active distribution with unboxing videos and location placements; Dave Brennan creating instructional content and planning stream appearances

    high · Brian Kossner update: 'Hot Wheels is now shipping to customers. I've seen some unboxing videos on Facebook and on Pinside... Dave Brennan, the technical service manager... his first two months on the job have been exciting... also going to be on the stream with Ryan Kuiper on the TurboGrafx-7 Twitch stream very soon'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Spooky Pinball improving Rick and Morty and America's Most Haunted with code updates, optional sound quality upgrades, LCD screen/viewing angle modifications, and laminated target stickers to reduce wear

    high · Dr. John SHIT update: 'new code drop for Rick and Morty with two new dimensions... much talk about changes... including changing the LCD screen to a higher resolution... also the target stickers... Charlie will happily send you a new set as a free replacement... from going forward from here all targets will be laminated'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Iron Maiden receiving unscheduled code update despite assumption game was complete; nature of update (mini wizard mode, topper DLC) unclear

    medium · Zach: 'there was an upcoming Iron Maiden update that included a little bit of a surprise. Everybody thought that game was done... This says next Iron Maiden update, so that doesn't sound right to me. Well, maybe it's enabled if you have the topper.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Guns N' Roses pinball machine by Jersey Jack widely expected but not yet officially announced; delay tied to production/shipping readiness

    high · Ken Rudberg correspondent segment: 'which has led a lot of people to ask the question, when are they going to announce Guns N' Roses already?' and explanation that Ken Cromwell 'gave us a hint into why it hasn't been announced yet'

  • ?

    technology_signal: Opto spinner implementation subject to significant space constraints; some high-profile games (Jurassic Park) cannot accommodate despite designer preference

    high · Zach reporting Elwin: 'Jurassic Park as a case in point, he would have liked to have put an opto spinner on that but with the ramp the way the ramp sets and everything it couldn't be done so they take up a little bit more real estate'

    • 3:36
    Had a couple of Rolling Stones in there, didn't we? I think everyone's talking about puppets, and I come in, and I'm like, it's just all about Straight Down the Middle drama. But this isn't relevant. Yeah, it was. I just don't understand. I don't either. I come from a simpler time in a very simple place, and I don't understand off-topicness. So, you know, there are a lot of media members that just don't simply go on Pinsider. They don't follow up with their listeners or their viewers. They just don't do it. But that's not us. That's not us, Dennis.
    4:08
    Oh, and side note, on your EGP episode this last week. Which one? The prior one. Did another Build-A-Bank? Yes. I like that game, but Tony! I wanted Tony to beat you. I really did. Why? Why would you want that? I don't know. I'm growing a little more fond of Tony. In particular, I don't know why. He was just telling it like it is, and he's just voting it like it is. Yeah, but he needs to maybe consult with myself.
    4:38
    That's what needs to be done so we can get Tony that big W. let's uh gosh this is so off topic but okay let's let's dive into a scenario where that would happen so here's what tony would call you up on skype so yeah he should phone a friend on build a bank that's a good idea so he phones you and you're like uh this is this is zach after uh i'm sorry it took me 20 minutes to answer because i'm never on time and then tony would say hey i'm doing build a bank and i need your help and he'll run through here's what we got and we're doing games top 21 through 30 and here are the four choices i get to pick first and then you would go oh they're all a b plus and then you hang up ah yeah but they'd be better than what he's been picking lately tony you had the opportunity to pick the winning bank for those of you who haven't listened maybe he'll still win no he will i think the i think the vote's already closed never mind No, that one wasn't close. So, Tony, next bank, buddy. I got your back. You want to phone a friend? I'll be sitting waiting. I'll be waiting. I can't do too many more Build-A-Banks. I'm about to get through where the first set, the best-ranked set, is bumping into what used to be the second-ranked set. Oh, okay. I'm going to have to mix up the rules here. I think I've got enough space to do one or two more under the system I've done. Creating segments is so easy.
    6:01
    Well, it really is. Mm-hmm. You feel my pain now. Well, no. The difference is that the segment I created is good. My segments are good. Thank you very much. And I stick with it. I don't have to introduce a new one every episode. Yeah. You know, sometimes I don't want just one television channel. I want a network, baby. And other times, people want RSS feeds for all of their stuff. Oh, God, with that shit again. So tell me a little bit about Father's Day. You had a good Father's Day? Well, we didn't do anything for Father's Day. We're still isolating due to various immune conditions in my family, so we didn't do anything in person on Father's Day. We were able to celebrate a little bit at distance. It was nice. Yeah, I saw photos of your Father's Day. It was, yeah. It was nice. I had a big steak for Father's Day, so that was always welcomed. I did get a – I'll have to put it up on the TPN Facebook or the Flippin' Out Facebook, but I got a gift from my family. Do you know the bags, the thrill in the bags with the holes in the wood and the thing, the bags game, backyard fun? Cornhole? Yeah, cornhole. We call it cornhole, but I always find it a little odd. So, yeah, I got custom cornhole tables that have flipping out on them. Oh, that's fancy. How cool is that? Well, as fancy as cornhole gets. Yeah, so somebody did those for us, and then I'm going to get a decal or something on the bottom that says, Bye, bye, bye! I think that would be fun. I am a father. You have a father. I have a father. Fathers are good. What have you learned from your faja throughout your life? You've learned a lot, but maybe one thing you really admire about Papa Creasel and his nakedness.
    7:48
    You're bringing back an oldie with the nudist theory. I just always picture him grabbing cheese naked right at the refrigerator. I don't know why. yeah well we didn't have a lot of cheese growing up in the house other than those craft singles you said he'd be a fan of mine if i came over for christmas so yeah i called back i never said that yeah you said that but not a good chance not a good chance not a probably not a good chance no like one of the things he was really good at uh versus well even my like i'm not good at this is when he would come home from work he would never talk about work wow he could just totally that was all shut off it was so so good at it that when i was in high school and i had to do a shadowing project uh you know to learn about a profession i didn't know anything really beyond the broad strokes of what he did as an electrical engineer wow so he was he could compartmentalize that well and he cared so much and loved his family so much he could just shut off yeah i have i have no memory of him ever complaining about a co-worker or a project or expressing any frustration with work and i was always impressed with that i can i cannot do that i kvetch about work if i'm i'll sit in the room by myself and talk to myself about how much i am mad at something at work yeah absolutely that was more of my mom's line too she would complain about work that is pretty impressive i'm trying to think what uh we got a list of things that papa mini has taught me or I've tried to strive to become. One of my dad's biggest things, and it's like a lot of people would have to work at this, but for him it's just very innate. He knows how to put in adequate work. He is a perfectionist to some degree, and he always taught me that if you don't know how to do something, then you just learn it. It was never a big thing, Dennis. almost do you know how to do this well no but okay let's let's do that then like anything that i would present him with ever anything he's ever been presented with if he wants to do it or needs it done he will just find a way to do it he's very crafty like that one of the hardest working people i've ever met uh doesn't quit he just wanted to support his family and if you wanted something to happen he he always believed that it could he had the most belief in me ever so he's like oh you want that you want to become that well then just go do it let's figure out how to get it done so that that's something that helped me to where i'm at today and hopefully i can instill upon my children oh yeah yeah we did a lot of the i always thought of it as what i stereotype as dad stuff we'd go and do like uh work on the cars and stuff so if it was okay well we like i've only ever gone until i got my new car and it's a part of the it's part of buying it yeah i only ever went for an oil change once i've always changed my own oil or done it with him that's impressive and that was because it was like well this is what we this is what we it's not hard so this is how we do i still will go over there when i do the oil change because he's got a flat driveway it's not slopped like mine and he's got all the stuff to recycle it and so it's just like okay we go in and do that and i remember as a kid going down uh he would do a lot of electrical projects on the side just like taking electrical equipment soldering and working on satellite receivers or vcrs or whatever it was because if a vcr broke it it would be fixed like he would fix it so isn't that something but he's colorblind so one of the things i had one of my early jobs as a kid and because my sister is colorblind as well is i would be there and he would be doing the project and I had to identify all the wires for him. I felt very important. Well, hell yeah. Which one's the green wire versus the blue wire? Because we can't mess it up or we're going to, you know, we'll put the polarity on the wrong spot. So your father and your sister were colorblind. You didn't get that trait, but you, so they might have trouble visually with what they see. What is it called? Because I feel like you have this, Dennis at times. What is it called when describing somebody that doesn't have good taste? How is it? Taste blind. Olfactory deprived. That sounds mean. I don't think it has a name.
    12:19
    I don't think mean things have names, Zach. Oh my gosh, I love it. You get it? Listener, he doesn't have good taste. All right, Dennis, so for all the fathers out there, If you are a father or you have a father that's close to you, happiest of Father's Day. So much so that I think we should go into a little song. Dennis, this is for all the fathers out there. I don't think we should do it. No, you don't. Sailing down behind the sun. You know this one, Dennis. Waiting for my prince to come.
    12:57
    Praying for the healing rain. To storm my soul again Anybody else know this one now? Just a tow rat on the run How did I get here? What have I done?
    13:18
    When will all my hopes arise? How will I know him When I look into all his eyes? I don't recognize that song.
    13:31
    My father's eyes. No? Nope. That's what I look into, father's eyes. No, my father's eyes. You don't know that one? Nope. All right, there are other podcasters that hate when we talk about anything besides pinball, news, and drums. And listeners, but you don't care about that. No, the listeners love it. Have you seen the numbers? I don't look at the numbers. Who cares? I don't care. I don't look at the numbers. Turnout was great. Forget Corona. The other TPN podcasters ask me for their numbers. It's when I pull numbers. We group everyone together. They vote for TPN. They listen. They love it. They're genius. Everyone else, stupid. They lack stamina.
    14:17
    You want to listen to some news from our correspondents? Fine. We don't have no Craig Bobby this week. Oh, good. I mean, fine. What you got, Cods? What you got, Dr. John? Bunch of shit. It's time for TPN Industry News.
    14:41
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. There's not a lot of news out of Jersey Jack Pinball this week, and there hasn't been a follow-up to the teaser video that was released a couple of weeks ago, which has led a lot of people to ask the question, when are they going to announce Guns N' Roses already? Ken Cromwell might have given us a hint into why it hasn't been announced yet in his most recent podcast. He said that Jersey Jack Pinball will not be announcing any pins until they are ready to ship. This is in contrast to some previous pins from Jersey Jack, which were announced, and then many months passed until they were available to be delivered to customers. It's safe to say that this is a better model for Jersey Jack, and will help them to make sales and deliveries while the excitement about their new pin is still alive. For the Pinball Show, this is Ken Rudberg.
    15:36
    Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. Hot Wheels is now shipping to customers. I've seen some unboxing videos on Facebook and on Pinside, and there's also a few locations where it's now available to play. Project Pinball is having a Hot Wheels raffle it's $70 per entry they have 200 total entries so check out the Project Pinball Facebook page for more info on that and our friends over at the Poor Man's Pinball Podcast had Dave Brennan, the technical service manager there at American Pinball on their episode 60, he was discussing his restorations, the hiring at American Pinball and the work with Hot Wheels and I also reached out to Dave and he told me that so far his first two months on the job have been exciting. He's been assisting customers, he's been working on the manual for Hot Wheels and he's also working on additional instructional videos. He's going to be getting Hot Wheels to have at the house to help with troubleshooting and he's also going to be on the stream with Ryan Kuiper on the TurboGrafx-7 Twitch stream very soon so look for that. For American Pinball, this is Brian Kossner. Hello from Dr. John and welcome to this week's SHIT update. It's mainly all about spooky this week and there is new code drop for Rick and Morty with two new dimensions and a whole stack of fixes and changes of light shows and awards. There is also movement with America's Most Haunted with an upgrade possible for the sound if you want to increase the quality of your machine. Speaking of increasing the quality of your machine, there's been much talk about changes that can be made to Rick and Morty, including changing the LCD screen to a higher resolution and viewing angle monitor, if that is your preference, and also the target stickers. This was mentioned by Chris on his Canadian Pinball podcast. and just to let everybody know if your stickers are suffering wear from being hit Charlie will happily send you a new set as a free replacement just email him at Spooky Pinball from going forward from here all targets will be laminated to improve their wear and tear if you have an urge to change the quality of your screen you can do so yourself and I'm a bit offended that most people on Pinball Network have been called out by Chris but he's yet to give me a serve at least I'll name you personally Chris so that's it for this week's SHIT update we'll catch you all next week bye always great hearing from the correspondents isn't it Dennis yeah I love it it's wonderful a Bobby-less correspondent section well he probably needed a break and poor Chris Chandler he's got nothing to cover over at Deep Root well maybe eventually I did see there was a, this was several weeks ago, of course, their updated announcement on the website. Yeah, I'm hoping, I think Mr. Chandler has been reaching out to Robert Mueller over at Deep Root, and they have confirmed that the plan is for Chris to be a correspondent for TPN to go over there to check it out with them. So, I'm excited about that. Yeah. You know what else I was excited about? I was listening to one of the best pinball podcasts in existence, the Final Round Pinball Podcast, featured here on TPN with hosts Martin Robbins and Jeff Tieles. Did you hear yet their last episode with Keith Elwin? Unfortunately, I have not finished that episode yet. Oh, you're going to love the rest of it. So Keith Elwin visited the final round. He was talking about kind of his upcoming game because Tieles, you'll have to listen. But there were some nuggets out of there I thought were interesting and that we could discuss. One being that Jurassic Park, did you know this, Dennis? Jurassic Park by Stern Pinball, the game of the year, was supposed to have an upper left flipper instead of an upper right flipper. So the top one-third basically was kind of going to be mirrored. But space did not allow for that upper left flipper. So they stuck with the upper right. No, I did not. Welcome to Jurassic Tron. Yeah. That's very good. But, yeah, I'm trying to think. I think Elwin was saying space-wise it just didn't work where the ball was exiting the right ramp. So it wasn't going to work that way. That would have been an interesting layout to say the least because he wanted to get away from Iron Maiden. He had that upper right flipper and the baby left flipper, but that upper right flipper for the loop. And we see the same similar kind of thing on Jurassic Park. Elwin talked about always wanting to mix it up, and he doesn't want to really have a style style per se. A distinctive way of laying out pinball machines? I don't know. We'll have to see his third one because so far he does have that. What do you think his third one will be? Just theme-wise. Any guesses? James Bond. I've heard James Bond. I've heard Godzilla. I don't know. Do you think either one of those work for pinball? Yeah. we've seen Godzilla and James Bond before so they don't seem to be very hard reaches which James Bond would you want I don't really care I'd say don't do Timothy Dalton I'd say don't do George Lazenby and don't do Timothy Dalton but other than that I think you won't really go wrong what about me pushy I mean Sean Connery is what most people are going to tell you they want at least you knew it Okay. That's not one I would want. Roger Moore had more Bond movies, though, so you have more to work with. Daniel Craig would be who I'm sure the studio would want because he's still James Bond currently. And you know Daniel Craig in my opinion is the best damn James Bond So give Craigie his due I want to see a Daniel Craig James Bond pinball machine That's what I want. Screw Moore, screw Con... I don't want to. Daniel Craig is the badass James Bond. Yeah, with no gadgets. Great. He's got his muscles. Is that not enough for you? The Bond supremacy. Have you not seen Casino Royale? Right? When he's poisoned, he goes out there. There were some gadgets. I like Casino Royale as well as a movie, but it was... This is... And I don't blame Daniel Craig for it. I think he's done fine as James Bond. But the Bond movies have become the Bourne movies. So... Only better. That's what they are now. Only better. What was the one where Javier Bardem was chasing him and he... Oh, God. What was that one? That was a good one, too. Did he go out in the middle of nowhere in that castle? In that house? yeah but Quantum of Solace is terrible I don't think any of the Daniel Craig ones were bad it's terrible is a strong word I know that's why I'm using it you probably think the new Star Wars films are terrible too I liked them better than the prequels fair enough when asked about what comes first the chicken or the egg the layout or the theme do designers know what theme they're working with before they start conceptualizing layout, or are they working on a layout and they just kind of adjust it towards that theme? Keith Elwin indicated that the theme comes really, really early. So most of the time, it goes well before that design stage. And people have talked about that, right? People have talked about, well... Yeah, I was going to say, this actually comes up a lot. So yeah, the answer to that, he said, he's claiming here, is you know the theme and then you work off of that. Now, we know that some of these designers probably have an idea of features they kind of want to put in one of their upcoming games. So it's probably a blend and a mix. But also, did you know this, Dennis? Guardians of the Galaxy was actually going to be Keith Elwin's Archer layout. No, I did not. Mm-hmm. Yep. John Borg was actually going to do Iron Maiden, but Elwin said he thinks Borg was kind of getting tired of music pins because he was on a row of those. So he wanted to switch it up. So Borg got Guardians and Elwin got Iron Maiden. And I think that was probably, from the manufacturer standpoint, the correct call. As a team, as a manufacturer, I think it was the right call because Guardians of the Galaxy, theme-wise, was probably a bit stronger than Iron Maiden, maybe? Yeah, no, I agree that it was. So Iron Maiden benefited from that unique layout and that debut of Keith Elwin, I believe. And he was also talking about an upcoming Iron Maiden update that included a little bit of a surprise. Everybody thought that game was done. Probably one of those mini wizard modes you won't ever play. I would guess that to be the case as well. Or a third topper with DLC.
    24:34
    This says next Iron Maiden update, so that doesn't sound right to me. Well, maybe it's enabled if you have the topper. maybe elwin's games all that all his toppers going forward will have that dlc who knows now dennis you know that i love those opto spinners that stern has been putting in some of their games you talk about that's like your favorite thing on beatles oh beatles has the opto spinners star wars the pin has the opto spinners elvirus house of whores has the opto spinners love them they just spin and spin and spin now the hosts of the final round asked keith that one about why are opto spinners in some titles but not in others because there are a lot of fan of the opto spinners he said it's always the designer's choice but there are times that it's not feasible due to space issues it's a jurassic park as a case in point he would have liked to have put an opto spinner on that but with the ramp the way the ramp sets and everything it couldn't be done so they take up a little bit more real estate how much space the opto takes so yeah i I don't know if it's a wiring thing or I know that on top of the bracket that holds that spinner, there's some wiring and different things that go into it. Yeah, I'm more curious underneath the play field.
    25:48
    I just, I don't know. If I was a designer, I would want that opto spinner as well. Yeah, but you're not going to, well, maybe you would, but I can see why designers wouldn't want to dramatically change an entire design decision just to accommodate. That's a good point. Essentially still just the spinner. Why can't we have spinners nowadays that feel like spinners of old? Because people want to do more in the game than just rip spinner all day. And that's the main issue. That's why the spinners feel different is like if you take a game like Firepower or Meteor or Stargazer, it's all about. I mean, it's not just the sound or the feel of the spinner. It's the fact that that is the way to earn points. Yeah. And do you really want to go back to an environment where the one way to earn points is just to keep repeating one shot over and over? Maxing out spinners, yeah. I mean, that's what I think it is, is what it comes down to. Some of these games are getting really smarter with the spinner use. I love a game that the code said, Dwight, are you listening? I love a game where the spinner is enabled into a mode. Like the mode, instead of hit the ramp this time, you've got to have so many spins to complete that mode. Beatles does that really well. One of the modes is a spinner-based mode. So you progress up levels the more spins you get on those opto spinners. I love that. I love completing tasks with the number of spins rather than a spinner just being additional points. That's a waste to me. That's a good use. I agree. I like it better than get this many pop hits. Yeah. Or if it could be – I don't know how accurate an opto spinner is or even a switch-based spinner. I don't know if it can really – I guess it could tell how many spins you actually get as long as that button on the switch is being pressed and it's not – you know what I'm talking about? Like when you're determining – I don't know if it's that precise. Is the switch really that precise? I think it's pretty precise. I think – well, I mean the switch either makes contact or it doesn't. So every time it makes contact, that's a question for the processor. Can it keep up? And as far as I understand, they've kept up for at least the solid state era. Okay. You know, that was an issue with, like, getting down two drop targets at the same time in the EM era. You wouldn't get points for both of them because it's all the way it was working through the relays and everything. It just could not. There's no memory. But if I play my firepower and I rip the spinner and lock the ball up top, then I can actually have the ball come out into the shooter lane, and I still see the score going up from the spinner. Oh, wow. Yeah, it feels good. It feels good. But, yeah, if they could tell the minute spins, each one, it would be fun to have like a mode where the game is ready and you have one spinner rip, how many spins you can get in one hit, and maybe that's a champion score at the end or a high score. Maybe you can just hit that thing one time to see if you can get above 30 spins or 40 spins. I think there was a Stern Electronics game that did that. It actually would tell you how many spins on a display. This is a Bruce Nightingale or Ron Hallett question. Like Dragon Fist or something had a spinner that it would tell you because I want to think it was Ron who said, yeah, after he put on a certain type of lubrication on the spinner and such, he one time got over 70 on one hit. Oh, man, that would feel good. I feel like it's flying off the game. They definitely can do it. It is possible. It's been possible for decades. A spinner, this is spinner talk now, a spinner has to be located in a way that it is complete satisfaction, but that alone will not make it one of the best spinner shots in pinball. It has to be married with an accompanying sound, a really good sound. We've heard bad spinner sounds. We've heard excellent ones. But if you match and marry that excellent Jerry Thompson spinner sound with the perfect location of the spinner and it being an opto, oh, spinnergasm. I think a lot of designers have recognized that the popularity of having an appropriate spinner sound is paramount for it to be appreciated. And that's an easy enough thing for them. It seems like they've gotten better lately, whereas there was a very long stretch where the spinner has become less important, but also wasn't even all that satisfying to hit. And it's probably a combination of the factors you mentioned, placement and sound. But it seems like lately, like broadly, I hear a lot of people say, well, I really like the spinner. Even if they understand that it's not going to be a spinner all day game. They seem to like the idea of the spinner.
    30:32
    Well, like you've noted, some of the sounds Jerry Thompson's been using with Stern on the spinners have gone over pretty well. I think I've seen people praise the sound of the super spinner when it's lit on. Oh, I love that. I like the sound impact of that one. Well, because that one is scripted with the shaker as well. Oh, man. Yeah. So they've gotten, I feel the designers across the board have gotten a lot better about making the spinner a fun shot. This or that, Dennis? A well-placed sounding reactive spinner or pop bumpers?
    31:07
    Oh, spinner. So can we get rid of pop bumpers? Do we need them? No, you don't need them. No, you've told me before they used to create havoc and danger, but anymore they're just made for, like, bonuses. And what are they doing? Well, you know, in the case of Stern, I've often heard that that was a requirement that Gary had on the designers, is that he felt you needed three pop bumpers. And other than, I think, Stranger Things, which is, I believe, two pops and then a kicking rubber. Yeah. They've all followed that. Kicking rubber. Obviously, we've seen spookies with the Denisey designs experiment away from that. That makes sense. It feels more like a mechanism, yeah. Yeah, doing a strategic pop bumper use, which is placed in a dangerous area. But yeah, the idea of the ball is wild. I think the concept as to why people like pop bumpers is that's an area where the player can watch the ball get a lot of action, and so there's a kinetic feel to it. but when there's no risk and a lot of times there's no risk like Stern Star Trek there's no risk in that pop bumper area you're in it a lot it definitely makes the ball move a lot but there's no risk you take Stern Star Wars and it feels like at least when I play the game I'm barely ever in the pop bumpers so I'm like why are they there I think designers should say you know what we stand behind no more pops and I know some competitive players at least a number of them that I have spoken to are not a fan of what they call slot pops where the pops are slot machines and trying to align that award I don't mind that because I'm at least getting something at least like in Ghostbusters I'm getting something I think it's the randomness of getting the award that annoys them competitive players want all the RNG stripped from the field I get that again If you're going to give me a mechanism like that, integrate it into the code so that I care. Got to get 50 pops in this certain time or you don't complete that mode. That's it. Otherwise, I don't give a shit. Moving on to Jersey Jack pinball, we heard in the recent Jersey Jack pinball podcast, host Ken Cromwell indicated, everybody's wanting to know, when are we going to see the rumored GNR Guns N' Roses game? He indicated that their next game will be debuted once it's ready to ship. I know that he's been big on that, been vocal about that. No, I think that's the ideal. I know they've been striving for that for a while, and Wonka was close. It was within two months, but I like that. I think this is good for their company, so I like this idea. We've already got Turtles Pros. Toadles. Toadles starting to go out this week to locations. That's been a hard email that I've had to send to a lot of people. They ask, where's my turtles? Where's my turtles? Well, they're going locations first.
    34:06
    Why, Zach? Why are you doing that to me? Not to shift back to Stern, but just as an update from the distributor and sales side, updating people. I think they like this. So, Turtles Pros are supposed to go on location or ship out to locations domestically next week. Then they're going to actually run some LEs. And when they run the LEs, they usually run all of them. So, I'd anticipate them running all the LEs. And then they'll go back to the Pro. So we may, in fact, this is going to be different because of all of this shutdown stuff, but we may see more LE owners than we do pro owners initially. That's interesting.
    34:43
    So be very patient, everyone, for your Turtles Pro. It is coming. They will make them for years. No, cancel them. No. All you guys cancel them. Please don't. Send a message. Oh, please don't. You can buy Hot Wheels instead. We've already got a podcaster that does that. We don't need any more of that. So, yeah. But Jersey Jack Pinball, their next game is going to be ready. Once it's ready to ship, that's when we'll start seeing it. I'm okay with that wait because I hate when a gate comes out and I have to wait and wait and wait. Yeah, no, I don't know anyone who likes it. I mean, isn't that the biggest gripe about those who are in on Rick and Morty? And they knew it going in, but still, it's frustrating to have to wait. That's a good point. I didn't have to wait long for my Rick and Morty. You whined about that for months. I'm not a patient fella. And I know that you got further delayed because of the shutdown, but no, you're not. Your dad should have taught you that. My papa was a rolling stone.
    35:37
    No, so I can't wait. But there is new code for Rick and Morty, speaking of. Two new dimensions and some more light shows, per Dr. Jean. Sparkly. I'm liking Rick and Morty a lot. A lot. How is it working for you? So out of the box, I can say that my Rick and Morty played really well. I know that there was a lot of complaints early on that the loop wasn't working as well, the garage shot wasn't working as well, the launch wasn't working. Nope, they tweaked and tuned. So your geometry was all tuned? You didn't need to make adjustments? Didn't touch a thing. Oh, good. Didn't touch a thing. So they've got that down. If anybody has seen our Straight Down the Middle Pinball Show unboxing video of Rick and Morty, we had a lot of fun doing that. We isn't me. But we had a lot of fun. But I did see that they left the test balls in my game. So that at least told me that they tested mine out. That was appreciated. But they left the test balls. So I had new balls and test balls. So I had 10 balls in mine. Mine's under the weather right now. It's got the little arcade sign with a little thermometer hanging out of its mouth. Oh. Yeah. I don't know what happened, but I think I need a new power supply. so oh my son and i were playing the power supply out right off of it and we were loving it so i can't stream it tonight uh everybody until i get that fixed i don't think it's a fuse thing i gotta look at the fuses maybe it's one of those little baby fuses they get them little baby fuses in there it blew my breaker and then oh oh interesting yeah okay yeah it wasn't pretty it wasn't pretty Okay, well. So, yeah, I was in the middle of a game two days ago, and it blew my breaker. And I was like, okay, maybe I just had too many games on. I don't know. Went and turned the breaker back on, but Rick and Morty was still off. And I'm like, oh, shit. Okay. So I took out, down by the switch, there's a power box or like a blue box that Brian Kelly loves. Took that off, and there's an 8-amp slow blow for all you techie nerds out there. a little 8 amp but that's a big fuse and that was demolished that was like black um so i was like oh boy so i pulled that out uh and then i put in another one and i thought you know what i'm gonna look i'm gonna look back in the back to see because this blew pretty if it blew a breaker we're dealing with some power stuff right something's crossed something's going on yeah yeah it sounds like it's pulling too much power yep so i i put in another fuse turned it on and I was looking in the back of the cabinet and right where you plug in that game, I saw some sparks like, and I was like, whoa! Holy crap, and it blew the breaker again. I'm like, oh, jeez. So, took out a fuse, put in another fuse, but the fuse didn't blow, I don't think. I don't think the fuse even blew. But sparks blew. Well, the breaker blew fast enough then. Yeah. That might protect the fuse. But it was coming from the back of the power supply. So I was like, oh, jeez. So then, I did alright so I got the breaker set back again I was like alright I'm going to try it one more time so I tried it again and it booted up just fine and I'm like oh great started a game started up just fine one fucking Morty coming up or whatever it says and go to plunge and all my high powered coils are dead so then I inspected all the coils to make sure that a lug wasn't touching a wire or anything it's fine so it's either I think I just need a new power supply well I mean in the case of the coils they may be controlled by another fuse. Did you see if there were any other blown fuses? That's what I need to, it's the baby fuses.
    39:20
    I know it's because of the weekend and everything. I don't know if you've been able to reach out to Spooky yet about what they think might be the issue. I did talk to Chris Minyer who does tech Spooky and very receptive, very quick. He was like, absolutely. Check the fuses. If it's not that, it's probably his power supply. We'll get you out one immediately on Monday. Right. I mean, they order those. They don't build the power supplies. So if it's a defective power supply, you know, it's unfortunate. And that happens. Yeah, it's not on them. I mean, it's good that they're obviously stepping up and replacing it. So if that ends up being what needs to be necessary. So, yeah, that's unfortunate, though, because I know you were really looking forward to playing it. Yeah, I was wanting to stream it. And my poor son, he's been streaming lately, and he came down Saturday, and he was like, oh, man, what's going on? Because he saw me working on it. I was like, I don't think you can stream it today, buddy. He was bummed. He had all his buddies. he was talking to. So he streamed Hot Wheels instead. Yes, I saw part of that stream, actually. Yeah, so. I didn't say anything. I was quiet. Hot Wheels, we're having a lot of fun with Hot Wheels, my son and I. But I will say, for some reason, there's something just that keeps pulling me into Rick and Morty. And it's not. The theme. Yeah, I guess. It's more up your alley as a theme. It is a very chaotic shooter, Dennis. There's nothing really. I'm trying to think like what shot is so satisfying it's smooth in some places clunky in others my first impressions are it's not the layout that's winning this thing over but it just it's so chaotic it's like TNA with ramps it's so chaotic and it's so difficult and at times it's even unfair but I've been pushing start on that more than I have Hot Wheels maybe you just like chaotic games more because Hot Wheels seems like you know it's very flow as i watched your son play to get uh you know i focused in on the shots a lot and i was like okay well it looks like it's a very approachable game and there's a lot of flow going on with it yeah uh and that's a very different approach to what you've just described rick and morty playing like so yeah they're both very much fun but if i had to pick one right now i've got to go rick and morty and it's not close you you have had a habit of naming games that you really like that tend to be pretty hard yeah walking dead willy wonka i like tough games stranger things based off of what you say you favor this sounds like this does not surprise me let me put it that way and not a knock on on hot wheels it's just it's it's oriented a different way for a different yeah i think that uh you can approach hot wheels a lot easier for a lot of people so which i given their plan of you know the desire to have more operator embrace of an American pinball game, I think that's the right way for them to go. Yeah. So we've had a lot of fun with Rick and Morty. We're super bummed right now because it's down. But they are responding quickly, and they've been very supportive throughout the entire process. A lot of people messaged me. It was like, oh, what was that situation you were? No need to get into that, but I can tell you very much so. Some stuff was cleared up and made my buying experience perfect. I couldn't ask for a happier owner of Rick and Morty. So I'm excited. And the time I have reached out, it's not been a lot to Spooky regarding when I bought my TNA from them. They've been very responsive. Yeah, I had a question for Eric Pripke, the coder. I mean, he was freaking bam. He was on it. And he was very nice explaining it because he knows I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to coding stuff. But he was unbelievable. And they did just announce that there's going to be some new decals going forward. they going to do laminated decals on the Rick and Morty for that upgraded decals Oh like a library card Yeah So owners of Rick and Morty that already have their game they can request these updated Target decals as well Just email SpookyPimple Okay, so they're on the Target. Are the non-laminated ones showing wear? Yeah, the problem is they print an entire decal without the circle for that rivet cutout. So they don't look the best. And then they weren't laminated, so they were showing wear pretty bad. Okay, makes sense. So, yeah, they're updating those. I know some people are updating their LCD monitor. I don't know, guys. I noticed it in TNA a little bit. Yeah, but there were, I mean, people can, obviously, I have no issue with people that want to do that. I would say, though, in the case of TNA, I thought there were plenty of decent guides that were posted, like on Pinside, for example, on ways to change from the default settings on the monitor. Just go in and adjust the contrast and stuff so that it just doesn't – because, yeah, by default, I agreed with a lot of people. I felt it looked extremely washed out, but that just seemed to be the default monitors they bought, what their settings were. And I tweaked mine, and I'm very happy with the way it looks. The only thing I really have an issue with, which I assume is probably still the case with Rick and Morty, is the power supply fan is extremely loud. I heard a couple people comment. And I know people have – like the only real way to address that is to change out the fan, which is a cheap part. And since it's not functionally a problem, I haven't done it. But, I mean, it sounds like I'm booting up NASA when I turn on DNA. The only issue I ever – The shuttle is going to be okay, guys. The only issue I have with the fan, Dennis, is when Greg and I are recording and we want to have the games on display so that people can see them in the videos. it does i mean you gotta do some noise removal uh in post to get rid of that damn fan and you guys heard it in the unboxing video i mean it was loud it's uh no it's it's very loud it is very loud i mean it's constant no it's not like it's only when they're like a laptop fan for example will get if your processor's being burdened it all of a sudden kicks the fan on high and you can hear them no it's always steady it's it's the speed of the fence it's the way the fan is but we did that unboxing video and Vireland, he makes this aftermarket fan and shout out to Vireland because he reached out to me and he was like, man you need the additional fan, let me send you one and I was like, alright, I'll be happy to make maybe an install video if you want to send me one, so he's got me a fan coming out to fix the, make it a little bit quieter the LCD screen is fine to me I'll tweak it a little bit I didn't see any issue with it If you want, check some guides. If you can't find one, the TNA settings are probably good for it. If you want to play with it or just play with the contrast and stuff. It's easy enough to restore to default. The straight down the middle unboxing was a lot of fun, Dennis, because you remember when I got drunk?
    46:08
    Nope. I got drunk unboxing the Pirates of the Caribbean because I had to take a shot of pirate rum every five minutes. I know, but I didn't watch it. Well, you're missing out. That is what it is. This time I upped the ante, though. And in Rick and Morty fashion, I don't know if you, oh, you don't watch Rick and Morty either. They have an episode where they talk about and they sing about with a slut dragon getting high on Molly and Percocet. I see where I'm going with this. So maybe watch that video to see a Zach doing a little Molly and Percocet while unboxing a game. How about it? Percocet. Molly Percocet. Did you watch the unboxing? You probably didn't even watch my damn unboxing video on Rick and Morty. No, I did not. Oh, jeez. I watched your Hot Wheels one. The first two minutes. That's all I'm asking. Damn. Two minutes. Speaking of two minutes, that's how long you'd want this next segment to last, Dennis. That's inaccurate because I don't want this segment to be here. You can't even give me two minutes, huh? You get whatever you want. I don't stop you. Out the left side of the plane, ladies and gentlemen, you will see all of the TPN correspondents. Wave hello. Hello, correspondents. You'll see Craig Bobby. He is in a cheerleader outfit for some odd reason. Craig Bobby, ladies and gentlemen. To the right side of your plane, if you look out, you'll see a Dennis Creasel shaking his head. You're also going to see, as we're approaching, the land of pinball market trends.
    47:38
    Everybody put your trays up in the upright position and buckle up because we're going up high into the land of pinball market trends. You like that? That's a nice little segue.
    47:53
    Turning up this week is Medieval Madness Royal Editions. Now that the remaining are starting to ship out and they're about done with this Medieval Madness Royal, people are getting an itchy finger on their keyboards to see how much money they can make on their limited but not limited Royal Edition Medieval Madness. Have you heard about this, Dennis? I saw one pin site thread that got locked. That's about it. They're multiplying like a brass.
    48:23
    Those little bumps on your skin. Don't pop them, sicko. They're climbing up. I've seen some people. We know that the list price for the Royal Edition is $10,000 plus shipping. But you're seeing some people, 12, 13, 14. How high can we go? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I don't care. Fair enough. Turning down this week is dialed in LE again. I've said it before, but this poor pin. There's so much pin there to play. So much. Mint condition. You're seeing them flood the marketplace. Right now you can get one for $7,000. And I bet if you tried hard enough, upper sixes for a dialed in LE. Upper sixes. It's cheaper than a Stern Premium. damn, what's going on, Dennis? It's not a theme that people care about. Oh, theme sell, huh? Well, that's the rumor. Is that the fact? Because numbers don't lie here on Pinball Marketing. But hey, I'll tell you what. Manufacturers, feel free to go and continue to experiment and continue to complain when no one buys your game. That's right. Continue to make those non-licensed games if you want to sell 100. But they'll be rare. Yeah, continue to listen to the 15 people that say that they want original themes on Pinside and then never buy your game. Oh, Cosmic Carnival. No.
    49:44
    Now, to be fair, that game did not play well. Yeah, it really didn't. That was a bad one. You should rate that game on Straight Down the Middle to prove you won't give it a B+, or would you? Or would I? See, that'd be hard because artwork was killer. Art's awesome. It's going to help pull it up. Artwork was an A on that game. Also trending down this week is my polling numbers. Oh, man. Talk about a kick in the nuts. Did you see the thread on Pinside that somebody started that asked which person was more valuable, Zach Minney or Jack Danger?
    50:20
    Yes, I did, because I was one of the early people to actually reply to it, which is not something I normally would do. How did you reply? I replied in a fairly negative manner and said... Please, Zach. Please, Zach. Please, Zach. No, I didn't vote in it. And it looks to me like the thread has been removed. Yeah, I think so. I couldn't find it. They left it running for a good two days, though, or something. Well, I mean, but anyway, yeah, that was my point. It's like the way I think what I wrote was I didn't understand why someone would make a thread like that because it seems designed for no purpose other than to create drama. Like someone's feelings are going to get hurt or I want someone's feelings to be hurt. It's about people. It's not about an individual. It's not about games. Yeah. And what I did not write, but where I was going with that was it's stuff like that that gives Pinside the reputation of being a toxic cesspool that it sometimes, quite frankly, deserves. Okay. I think it's fair. Because they allowed that thread to exist for as long as it did. It's like you want to know why everyone thinks that this place is a shithole? There you go. There's your example. Because you allow things like this, and then you say our number one rule is be nice, and there's nothing nice about pitting people in a popularity contest like this is high school. school so that's my problem with it it isn't about who was involved with it or anything it's like no i'm not voting i'm not playing that game yeah because you looked and you saw your polling numbers weren't as good so how did that make you feel um i i was expected i know that was my whole case in point like i'm i've become numb to some of some of the the jabs and stuff like that i think it was probably accepted because jack and i have enough exposure in pinball that we were we're kind of closer to an entity that's like a manufacturer that you can ridicule and stuff than anything so i i see your point but i i disagree i think this is clearly a hey look we know there was this conflict and discussion involving hot wheels and it's starting to simmer and people are moving past it so let's just thrust everything out in the public again to keep people like this like wanting people to get in a circle and knife fight each other so it's like hey look it's falling away hey maybe if i create a thread i can arm you guys with some switchblades and we can see some blood wow that's how it only if jack and i would grease back our hair would i be up for that right and well neither of you posted in the thread uh he's already got the jean jacket i need something i need like a leather jacket or something well no no one no one can dispute his style i mean that's right let's be let's be perfectly frank but it's just like so no it's not it isn't about that Jack was in it and you were in it, it got me on a bad day.
    53:01
    There's nothing healthy about this. It's so obvious. To me, it was nothing but toxic and pointless but not in a frivolous way. There is a risk that you damage people with it and that's my problem with it. If you want to do a stupid versus thing about Star Wars versus Star Trek, those are just properties or games. No one should care. These are feelings. Well, that's what you're toying with, with it, in my view. And I don't think there's anything healthy about it. Try and politely say my point. I'm being obviously a little nastier here. I think your point is actually the correct one. It's the rational one. I completely agree with you. And I would like to think I would have agreed with you whether it was myself included in that poll or anybody else. I didn't take offense to it, really. because my thought was from like a scientific approach why have a poll if you already know what the results are going to be I think that's what I said to you in text I was like I don't of course we know Jack Danger is going to be polled higher value wise than myself I don't think we're not uncovering anything there so I didn't understand the poll more than anything because the point of the poll wasn't to measure anything it was to create drama that's my belief Quite possibly. If it bleeds, it leads, right? I don't know. I guess so. Sure. And that forum allowed it to exist far longer than if they actually cared about their standards would have permitted it. I'm in a lot of bloodshed. I feel like I'm needing an infusion here. Help me. So, yeah, turning down this week is my polling numbers because, oh. When it's just about tearing down people, I just don't understand. I don't understand why people feed off of that level of toxicity in an almost gleeful way. It's not even schoidenfraud because it's not like these people are giants that are being brought down to size. It's just meanness for sport. We're not giants?
    54:58
    You're not. I stand on my own mountain. Mound? Let's not bullshit ourselves. I stand on my own molehill, which I'm now making a mountain out of. I know. My mountain isn't a fame mountain. You've heard me rant about fame. I don't see the value in it that you do. I don't. fame what the hell am i gonna get fame for in pinball oh now see that's where it's at oh man get that cut it cut it cut it oh it was so good it's in there yeah so i'm my polling numbers are down right now it's called recently on a podcast the single most passive-aggressive individual in existence they've ever met Oh, God.
    55:48
    He's also a person that was mediating, trying to get me to get along with him. Are you like the sort of person who steals people's lunches out of the work fridge? I was described as being the person that blows on the back of someone's neck while you're in line. And then when I get popped in the face, then it's like I deserved it. Am I passive-progressive? Hell, yeah, that's a good characteristic that I have. but in this particular situation, couldn't have been further from the truth. I found it funny. Have you ever read our reviews on the podcast Review Catcher? The database? Once upon a time. Oh, man. I've got to read a part of this. I love this one. This is like mean tweets. Ready? I'm going to pull a segment from this. So that's some nice things to say, but this individual also said, maybe the only real fault of the show is at times it can feel like the show is hosted by a seven-year-old who just discovered his parents cassette recorder and is pretending to be a morning radio dj i like that that's actually four stars i yeah but i like the analogy like it's well written it was pretty good it was it was pretty good whoever wrote it Kudos to you. It was Joe Servino, I believe. Oh, okay. I know Joe. Nicely done, Joe. I mean, I don't know him personally. I know him from online. Oh, so nicely done. That was good. So, yeah, we get our fair share of mean tweets and reviews over here at the Pinball Show. But you know what they say, Dennis? It is a common complaint I hear about you, Zach. Not the passive aggressiveness, but the kind of morning show. Two showsmanship-y. The fake, that it's fake. that comes across like, well, and like when you say, well, when you play Devil's Advocate and stuff. Well, yeah, but some people would rather just hear you be honest instead of making sure that the other side is argued. Yeah. I know. Entertainment. I get blowback too. I mean, there is a person on the inside who wanted Craig Bobby to replace me. We've got reviews. Do we want people to go to this database to do reviews for us? I don't care if people do reviews or not. Okay, fair enough. I used to ask on EGP and it's just like kind of – I'm not actually – like the argument on iTunes is it's supposed to factor into the algorithm, help people find the show. But I don't know what the algorithm is. So I got – without me knowing the metrics, I'm like – I'm confused as the algorithm on that because, for example, like – well, I have to reach out to Jeff at This Week in Pinball to see what the – like even the search algorithm for this database perplexes me. I don't understand. Like, I'll go into the database and type in the pinball show. That's the title of our show. And we're like the seventh result. I'm like, well, how can that be? The fucking term is identical to the pinball show. We're like the seventh under, like, I believe, who comes up before us. It makes no sense. I've not spent any time trying to understand how the search works. So for those of you interested in submitting a review for your favorite stream or podcast or video show or anything pinball media, go to This Week in Pinball and go to the database to do so. All right, let's talk about a little deal of the week this week. You want to? No, you know I think that's a stupid add-on. I want to save people some money. It's going to be sold before this is even out.
    59:15
    Maybe if it's a good enough deal, but – If it's not, it shouldn't have been deal of the week. Bye, bye, bye. Oh, I was going to do one, but you did it there. Deal of the week. You even got the bye-bye-bye and I didn't, you son of a bitch.
    59:27
    Whatever. This week's deal of the week is going to be an Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle with blood at cabinet.
    59:34
    Blood up. I'm telling you, Spooky's leaving money on the table, not offering the cheaper margarine version. I can't believe this. I can't. That's what they should bill it as. That might be a trademark issue, but they should try. I believe in them. Just the margarine version. If you go to Pinside and look up Pinside user Vitty, it's only three Vitty. He comes from Minestrata, Minnesota. He's a recurring deal of the week type of seller, so I congratulate him for that. But he has an Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle with butter cabinet, $6,900, listeners. And he also has different things on it, like the shaker motor, the knocker, the speaker lights. He has this beautiful green powder coat that I wouldn't have thought would work, but it works really well. So a butter cabinet with a unique powder coat, it sets this game off. It looks really, really good. There's a little bitty, tiny, minuscule ding on one of the sides of the cabs, but I care about a lot of stuff, and I wouldn't care about that. So for $6,900, he's open to shipping at the buyer's expense as well. a lot of payment methods yeah if you want an Alice Cooper this is the one I would want nicely done Vitty but don't offer him 69 offer him like 60 I'd offer him 67 see if I take it another deal of the week is not so much a deal of the week but a plug for the show and a plug for Flippin Out Pinball that is I've got a couple Elvira House of Whore premiums that just came in stock I can assure you once these sell and once all distributors sell this recent run of Elvira premiums You're not going to see one for a handful of months. So, didn't you know how popular this game is? Yeah, yeah. It's a fun game. When they're gone, they're gone for a while. So you might as well jump on and get one of those shipped out to you today. And remember, with Flippin' Out Pinball, all brand new Sterns are always free shipping. Buy, buy, buy! And you know what? What? I was going to do a viewer trends, but I'm going to actually... We had submitted this week a viewer deal of the week. So let's play that by... We don't do that, though. Well, a hybrid has been created. Yeah, it just butted off. It just keeps growing, metastasizing.
    61:52
    Just like that rash I was talking about earlier. And our very own correspondent, Kaz, submitted the following. The Pennside Marketplace always has lots of unique and sometimes odd items up for trade that's not a pinball machine. The latest I've seen is a 1981 DeLorean with a manual transmission. This is from Murph's Pens up in Minnesota. He's looking to get about $25,000 to $30,000 worth of pinball machines for his DeLorean. So if you've got a bunch of machines you don't want anymore and you want a DeLorean, then reach out to Murph's Pens and maybe you can work out a deal. Bye, bye, bye! Hello, McFly.
    62:32
    Creasel, would you not love a DeLorean? No, I've never heard good things about that car. Oh, you and performance. Who cares? As long as it drives. It's not like you're going to be going 88 in it. Well, I think that car only appeals to those that are obsessed with Back to the Future. And you know I don't think very highly of that theme anyway.
    62:51
    It just goes to show your deficiency in taste again. Oh my gosh, I want that car so bad. Maybe I'll get a restored DeLorean for my brand new unannounced Back to the Future pinball machine. that's going to be developed by... Trade your Big Lebowski and you're halfway there. The Lebowski is pending sale, actually. Mm-hmm. That has been a hot little topic on Pinside, too. But yeah, a DeLorean. You know what? If it was a great DeLorean, if it was like a restored DeLorean, I would trade some pins for a DeLorean. I would love to have one. Only if it says, Out of time. On the back. Man, I love that movie. Do you think we'll ever see a Back to the Future pinball machine? We already had one. No, not the one, that East one. We had Potato Face. I don't want to say never, because it is a timeless theme, but... Thank you.
    63:52
    They'd have to be, like, really dry in the well to win it. It's not going to sell like Ghostbusters did, so... And I think they know that. Better theme, that or Rick and Morty. I've not seen Rick and Morty, Zach, so how can I judge that? better theme that or iron maiden uh back to the future is better thing black knight back to the future because it's a known theme beyond pinball monsters i think it's better than monsters too but deadpool no worst thing no you're wrong deadpool is now you have a huge movie ryan riddle's fan base that now loves deadpool and it's an extremely popular marvel comic Email the Pinball Network at gmail.com and tell us if you think Maybe we do a poll Which one the stronger theme So make sure to follow us on Facebook Back to the Future or Deadpool I believe that Back to the Future probably 1 times higher. I'm going to give my edge. I'm going to give myself 1.5 times higher approval for a theme than Deadpool. Deadpool's cool, but it's no Back to the Future. Marty!
    65:05
    And before we leave this week, Dennis, why don't we do another uh mvp you want to yeah sure for listeners who have not heard this segment the pinball show mvp award is what dennis and i give to certain creators of a particular machine we randomly select a pinball machine in the pin side top 100 and after hearing the machine dennis picks an mvp for that particular machine whether he thinks it's the designer the coder the sound engineer, the artist, etc. And I'll pick my MVP for that said machine. So, Siri, can you give us a randomized number from 0 to 100? That would be 19. As we go to the Pinside Top 100, number 19 is Stern's Spider-Man. I don't think it matters what edition, whether it's the original, the vault, the black Spider-Man edition. I guess it would for art. It would for art. So what are we going to do here? I guess you can pick if you want to take the vault or the original. Let's go with the original Spider-Man. Okay. The original Spider-Man. We know that the concept was done by Steve Ritchie and Lyman Sheets. The design itself was a Steve Ritchie design, one of your favorite designers. The mechanics, John Rothermel. The software by Lyman Sheets, the great. Artwork by Kevin O'Connor, Margaret Hudson, Mark Galvez. Animation, Mark Galvez. Sound, David Thiel. and music David Thiel. So when you think of Spider-Man, what's the first thing that comes to you? Is it the theme? Is it the design, the code, the light show? I mean, I always think of the layout first, but that's true for pretty much any game I hear. For me, yeah, it's the layout and the theming. It's hard not to love Spider-Man as a theme. These were based on the Tobey Maguire films back in the late 2000s. 2007 is when this particular game came out. I mean, this came out with the kind of along the lines of the third movie, but the very first Spider-Man, I believe, dropped in 2001. Yeah, very good point. So as we're looking here, you went first last time. You want me to go first this time? I have no preference. Siri, who the fuck should go first? No, I'll go first. So my MVP of Spider-Man. loyal listeners know Dennis that I am not a big fan of this game it's not that it's a bad game hell Steve Bowden's favorite game I think it's a great game but I'm just not a fan of it it doesn't do anything for me I find it boring I wouldn't want it in my collection etc etc etc I feel like Steve Ritchie's design on this is very similar to that of Star Trek which I find is a better game So Dennis, I'm actually going to go with the mechanics team. Oh. Yeah, you hear Steve Ritchie, you hear Lyman Sheets. Those are powerhouse heroes in pinball. But for me, this is not even close to my favorite Steve Ritchie design. I feel it to be almost cheap feeling on some of the shots. And Lyman Sheets, it's a good code set, but it's just kind of boring to me. So I'm going to go with the mechanical team because I love, even if it was Steve Ritchie's idea to create these mechanics, the Doc Ock magnet, the Doc Ock that goes up and down, the center bank that's akin to Attack from Mars. But when it goes down, you also have targets back there. You have a Vuck back there with Sandman. He moves around a little bit. I like the mechanics in this game more than anything. And I believe you even get a moving Green Goblin, if I'm not mistaken. So I like the mechanics on this game. So my MVP goes to the mechanics team, which per IBDB is John Rarthamal, Mike Redobel, and Rob Blakeman.
    69:09
    Nicely done. So they're going to share my MVP for Stern's Spider-Man. What about you? Well, you made a really good argument for that, and I do like the toys in the game. I'm going to go with Lime and Sheets though oh wow going against Rich that's your boy yeah but as you pointed out this layout is inferior to Star Trek I want to say it's like it wants to be Star Trek and it's not as good except Star Trek came later so I'd like to think Star Trek was more a refinement on this that's a good take I just don't think that the upper flipper shot feels as well I'm not a big fan of how easy it is to backhand the Doc Ock shot I'm not But the center bank just kind of annoys me. It's okay. And this is where I will agree with Steve Bowden, though. I think Lyman saved this game. I think that when this game, if I recall, and I did not play pinball during this time period, but from what I know of my game history, when this game came out, it was not a very good game. You know, that's been the case with a lot of games where Lyman's been lead, where Walking Dead was criticized for the same, that the code wasn't fun when it first dropped. We all know about the issues with how early they had to push Batman 66 out.
    70:21
    And I think Elvira kind of escaped a lot of that, but it still was pretty shallow when it first came out compared to what we have in Elvira House of Horrors at this point. Same thing here. I think that the mode-based style and approach that Lyman has implemented in this game is what makes this game a good game and why a number of people will pick Spider-Man over Star Trek. I can actually see that. I think overall, with a general pinballer poll, Star Trek would win. But with a competitive poll, Spider-Man might because of the way – I think both have good rules. But it's like – I've heard sometimes with Star Trek – and again, I'm bringing it up only because of the similar layout. A lot of people do the what if and they wonder, what if Lyman had coded Star Trek? I think, well, you know what that would be. it'd be Spider-Man because that's what he chose to do with the rules for a very similar layout. But, yeah, I can't – no, I can't go with Steve. I actually feel – And I would even say that the differentiation between, like, the Spider-Man code set, I feel like the modes differentiate themselves. Even the mini wizard, they kind of – they feel more different than they do in Star Trek, but it's just the depth and stuff on that Star Trek, you know, three-deep triangle. It just makes more sense to me. I really like what Lonnie did with the Star Trek rules.
    71:43
    Didn't Lyman help with that? Dwight helped. I thought Lyman came in as well. But by Dwight's own admission, like 90-plus percent of that game is Lonnie. Okay. He took ideas that were already sketched out by Lonnie and just actually did the implementation of them. I see. So he says that's who deserves credit. But I think that's a – I can't remember what podcast I just heard with Dwight on who said – He was on a couple. Yeah, he's been on a few for the Turtles thing. I can't remember which one where he said that came up and they were – oh, it was Pinball Players podcast with Jeff and Joe. And they were taking their top five Dwight games, and the one that someone was unsure of was Star Trek. And Dwight's like, I worked on it, but I don't deserve credit for the rules. That's a Lonnie game. and if you like Star Trek's rules you like Lonnie's rules so but in this game it is a Lyman game it definitely has Lyman rules and they are very good rules so for that I'll go ahead and give him with my runner up would have been I do like the sound in it but I know a lot of that is just because of the call out JK Simmons with the JJ Simmons character I almost gave my MVP award to JK Simmons for the actual call-outs because Parker!
    73:04
    That's like the biggest complaint people have is losing that with the vault. Yep, absolutely. We'll take the uglier artwork. We want J.K. Simmons. Yeah, well, it's just a great performance. He's an Oscar winner. Come on! Seen him in Whiplash?
    73:20
    Is he not the best in that? One, two, three, four. Rushing or dragging? So you do know the difference! If you deliberately sabotage my band, I will fuck you like a pig. Now, are you a rusher or are you a dragger or are you going to be on my fucking time? I'm going to be on your time.
    73:44
    What does that say? Quarter note equals 215. Count me a 215. A one, two, three, four, one, two, three, four. Jesus fucking Christ. I didn't know they allowed retards into Schaefer. Am I to understand that you cannot read tempo? Can you even fucking read music? What is that? Eighth note. Yes, what is that? I did 16. Sight read measure 101.
    74:04
    What are you, a fucking acapella group? Play the goddamn kit! Now answer my question. Were you rushing or were you dragging?
    74:16
    Answer! Rushing. Oh, my dear God. Are you one of those single-tier people? Do I look like a double fucking rainbow to you? Oh, my goodness. if you guys haven't seen Whiplash, I'm surprised you've actually seen it. Well, it's about jazz. Oh, I'm surprised you've seen anything.
    74:37
    It's about jazz. It kicks ass. That film kicks ass, man. All right, Dennis, that's it for us on episode 19 of the Pinball Show. Actually, you know what? I can't. I've got to. I'm a father, right? I am. I have a father. I am a father. But over the last year and a half, I've become a father again to a little guy I care a lot about. You're above ground pool? We've gone through a lot together. So I have one outro song that I just want to sing to the one I call 4-inch Creasel Cologne. What if Dennis was one of us? Just a shill like one of us Blee-bee-bee-blow-bloo-blow-bloo-da-ba-do-ba-dee This is a very sensitive subject.
    75:56
    Yeah. From the moment I heard Denny say that I had a clone, I knew that I'd be safe because I'd never be alone. A podcast doctor shouldn't speak a lot of baddest feelings. My hurt and my pain don't make me too appealing. I hope Creasel Clone would look up to me. Run the business of the family. Head of Pimple Empire just like his dear old dad. Just give him my love and the machines I never had. Little Creasy would think I was a cool guy. Return the love I had. Make me wanna cry Be snarky How about feelings too Change my life with Jack Bart And all the pin side haters too The creasel rejected me C'est la vie Pinball world is cruel So treat you unfairly Even so A god there must be Four inch creasel clone You complete me It goes to you My little four inch creasel son I'm not sending this I can't believe you put three songs in this show Oh I had to see my Look he would have been mad He would have threatened to move out again He's not to the point of like Putting his hands on his mom but I mean come on Enough's enough I gotta put my foot down here A little crazy Love you guys Now we can close it out Where can people reach Dennis Creasel For a little bit more A little bit more of you Go to EGP yeah you search it online on the net and for the love of everything tony vote for him on the i don't even care what he picks for the next one just vote for him you can reach us the pinball network at gmail.com also on facebook make sure to follow and subscribe there for a lot of behind the scenes stuff and a lot of shares to some streaming to some videos etc we have a website thepinballnetwork.net as well as Twitch at twitch.tv slash pinballnetwork and if you're ready to buy a brand new pinball machine contact myself at FlippinOutPinball it would be very much appreciated very very much appreciated you can buy an Escalera from us you can buy brand new pinball machines we got some used inventory in as well we try to be fair we get you things out as fast as we can and hey we just may be selling some other stuff here in the future so go to Facebook and follow yeah everybody's always like do you have on your website all your used games no because that would require getting them up getting them down we sell them very fairly and very quickly so follow us on Facebook for all of that TPN today this last week you listened to the final round pinball podcast episode 10 with Keith Elwin if you have not go back listen to that Dennis I want to talk about something really quick the puppet pals have landed in a huge way this show has taken the pinball world by storm episode zero came out as a promotional piece but episode one the group or the person submitted to us pinball dream themes and my pinball dream theme is now a poppet pals pinball machine i shit you not that's how good the show is it's fun i really liked it i know it's it's not resonated with a few people that find it too weird but it's uh it's meant to be weird so and it is so edgy and and wonderfully written and talented these aren't kid puppets no be safe yeah don't listen to moppy too closely but no it's it's relevant i think the person who does it or the group plays their own piano the music in it is written i think oh man it's not like what you do no this this this makes me want to quit podcasting the puppet pals that's how good it is oh people can now they see they see the dream it can become a reality yeah i can if this doesn't win the twippy i'd then i've lost i've lost faith in uh who's voting man the pinball show midweek ish edition episode eight uh with craig bobby entitled Little Flipper Strong Takes. That was cute. I really liked it. Yeah, I like how cold his daughter was to his desire to make her love Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And she's like, nope, not really. Not into it. So if you haven't heard that, listen to the Little Flipper Strong Takes on Hot Wheels by American Pinball. That was a lot of fun. She also had a strong take toward her dad towards the end of that. And I'm here to announce, you're going to see the announcements this week on social media, But we have some new TPN streaming affiliates that include The Pensomniac. Welcome. Fliptronic. Wonderful group. Welcome. Raoul Pinball. Welcome. We Love Pinball. Out of Germany, I believe. Welcome. Guten Tag. Maybe the best screen name ever. Screen name. You still on MySpace there, Zach? Jedi McMuffin. Ba-ba-ba-ba-wong.
    81:00
    That would be my tune if I were him. That's perfect. And if you haven't seen his logo, it's even better. His logo actually creeps me out. So good. And just another pinball stream. So follow all of those individuals. You're going to see our team continue to grow and expand here at the Pinball Network. Thank you all for the support. Except for some of you. TPN This Week. What's coming up, Dennis? New Silver Ball Chronicles. Oh, boy. They are covering, I believe, Gottlieb System 1. Yeah, I am shocked. When I looked at the poll, the follow-up on Steve Ritchie was winning, and I, full disclosure, voted for Steve Ritchie. I think you don't want to go too long. They left it up to the audience, but I don't think you want to go too long between those. And it sounds to me – I was communicating with Mr. David Dennis, who is one of the hosts of that show, and it sounds like someone did some shenanigans and put their thumb on the scale. Oh!
    82:00
    A voter, an enthusiastic voter, might have committed a little bit of the voter fraud. Oh, we all know how Dennis Griza likes Gottliebs.
    82:09
    You spread that rumor. You know, that's all made up. I know it is. Like this love of Gottlieb. Now, I think Gottlieb System 1 is a fascinating story. So I think it deserves to be covered. But I think following up with Steve Ritchie would have been the better choice at this stage. Hopefully we'll get that next. yeah uh my i mean my recommendation to ron and david is don't ever ask the viewers again for their opinion they don't they don't know they don't know there's viewers that want pinball market trends to be extinct yes what's next no vegetables and fruits in your diet good lord the problem with uh the market trends is that it's really good just ignored outright ignored oh Oh, no. I loved him so much I created a clone of him. Gottlieb System Ones. Okay. They can make anything interesting, those guys over at Silver Ball Chronicles. Ooh, as well as Josh Jacobs with Silver Ball Stories. I think we may get another one of those this week. I'm looking forward to that one. Yeah. You see, I think, here's my theory with Josh. I think he thinks that these puppets, they're encroaching on his turf. Whoa. He had the most unique pinball podcast. And now the puppets are trying to out-unique him. The pinball audio experience. But Josh is a master story weaver, and he's got musical talent as well. So I really like Silver Ball Stories, so I'm looking forward to it anyway. But this could be the rivalry of the month. Could we have a crossover like when the Jetsons visited the Flintstones? That would be awesome. Silver Ball Pals? Oh! Puppet Stories? Gosh, I've got to go change my pants.
    83:47
    You're also going to see on TurboGrafx-7, they are going to be streaming some Hot Wheels upcoming because Dave Brennan is an employee of American Pinball and he streams with TurboGrafx-7 so you're going to see some Hot Wheels so if anybody wants to see a little bit more of that game tune in and follow them so for Dennis Creasel I'm Zach Minney you and I and for the love of everything practice safe pinball and the cats in the cradle and the silver spoon Little blue moon and man and moon When you're coming home, Dennis, don't know when We'll be together then You know we'll have a good time That song is, like, overly depressing. I know. I feel like a shitty dad every time I listen to it. My son turned ten just the other day He said, thanks for the ball, Dad, come on, let's play As long as there weren't any sparks. God damn it dude I can't do it I can't They'll fucking light me up Welcome to having no power God Tell me about the value of your platforming Apparently when I was a kid I watched that So It was a good song Good show You love that and Flash I have no memory of Flashdance I do remember Fame a little I want to see you in your tight pants Doing the Flashdance With your headband on I don't know if I had the headband And did the dance I may have just liked the music. It would be fantastic.
    86:02
    Thank you.