11:50I I love it but it's embarrassing at the same time right it is it's a you know keeps making fun of me Keith and all the team uh for every reset I do absolutely but but it's fantastic it really is I the first time I heard that it was that was awesome that's that's a that's a game designer using their power to the greater good you know I just think it's it's hilarious to hear but I know both of you I mean Carl you've blown it up I I think I think there was a time that I was borrowing um from flipping out I was borrowing a pro and um at the same time you had either an Ellie or premium I don't remember and it's like there were people watching you stream it and blowing it up for whatever 10 plus billion and then rolling over to mine I'm cracking you know 500 million and feeling good about it but um I don't any thoughts on that like overall thoughts on Godzilla I mean what comes to mind when the two of you guys play this game do you feel it's Keith's best do you feel I don't know do you feel it deserves the number one spot on pinside I I think it does deserve the number one spot it's it's it it strikes that perfect balance of being good for casual players good for good for basically any skill level there's enough to do on the surface but there's a massive amount just beneath that for for the players like myself that you know really want to dive in to the deeper strategies yeah and you're talking City combos you're talking about the Imposter shot you're talking about the secret combos the stack like I don't know it's there's what I thought I knew Godzilla and now that I have it I'm realizing like holy crap there is so much more here that I need to learn exactly you can keep going in that list it just keeps on rolling over and over Tom how are you feeling about it you've had it a while now it's awesome yeah it's it's an incredible game for sure I'm very excited to have it I'm I'm very excited to dive in and I know there's more coming that's what's crazy is Keith has alluded to unlocking or there's more coming to the game which is absolutely insane um so overall anybody that's listening to this what I what I think is cool is this is the first game that I've borrowed the pro and to be honest I completely fell in love with it I loved the pro and it had no Max it had no Max but the game still shot so well the code just kept drawing me back the audio package visual everything and so I felt it was worth owning the game again but not only that upgrading and and the upgrade was for all the mechs and I know last last episode we kind of talked about this and Carl I'm curious about your opinion because Travis was really harping on the fact that he feels that mechs aren't what cell games it's theme that sells games and I actually had a few people reach out to me and email us kind of complaining about that that they're like they don't want to under value mechs like mechs are still really important and I will say now that I have Godzilla and I feel like this premium just added three insane Max between the building the bridge and the rotating Mechagodzilla I'm really feeling that like the like I agree that I think the mechs are super important I don't know I mean Carl do you heard that discussion were you agreeing were you disagreeing I mean what are your thoughts on kind of the importance of mechs in modern pins I mean I think for initial sales theme is more important yes by far you know initial sales that first month the game can get by completely on theme but for the long-term sales it needs the Max and you know it needs those unique moments in pinball what caught me off guard on Godzilla was the bridge I really didn't think you know when we saw the announcement I didn't think much of the bridge you know it's just this you know a little thing that you know drops the ball but the way it's integrated and the way it you know when you destroy the bridge and it's it there's a whole um you know multi-second animation where it slowly collapses just it makes that makes so worth it yeah whereas I thought it was just going to be a throwaway Mech to be honest which is hilarious that a game could have a throwaway Mech I mean I think there are certain games some Modern games these days only have one Mech and to have the the Magna grab shot which is such a unique shot and then the building is insane but then I it's like each I feel like the building that could have been it and people would have been happy I think the Mecca Godzilla rotisserie thing could have been it and that could people could have been happy so how Keith found a way with the bomb the bill of materials that he had that he could build in all these mechs and still produce an incredible game that doesn't seem over cluttered I don't I don't I don't know I mean um I don't know I mean Tom do you like you've played you played the pro Godzilla Latin tournament and then you compare that to your Ellie at home like do you have a preference do you feel that one does it better better than other I mean what's your uh I I actually think the Le's a little easier to play um but uh just just the size of the spinner on the right hand side uh for Mecca Godzilla but um I I like both versions of the game like if I if I just had a pro I'd be extremely happy with just having a pro yeah yeah well we brought up this conversation or the idea of Max because the rumored next Pulp Fiction is supposed to be a single lover level game obviously elwyn's bond has been said that it's a single level game um TNA just came out at almost a ten thousand dollar price point single level single level game do you feel like Carl as a as a pinball buyer and player does that when you hear at single level does that slow you down at all disappoint you at all or I mean I don't know what are you because you assume it's has less right it has less than a than another game well it has less vertical happening you know less less verticality or whatever you want to call that um it's just missing a couple ramps right I mean it's just plastic ramps or middle rants two different shots it's it's not that big a deal to me it really comes down to layout shots and rules for for single level games okay and you can still have toys in them yeah you know like we heard uh elwin's is supposed to have a spinning disc in there right uh the odd job hat is what they announced but and a lot of drop targets everywhere yep I don't know much else besides that yep I'm I'm with you I think it's just um I don't know I maybe it's Bond I don't Carl you you had a chance to play bonded Expo I assume yeah yeah and we talked about it last episode Travis's summary was basically the left side was the right side was pretty cool I mean he was I don't know Tom did I summarize that well is that similar to how you felt I don't um yeah pretty well for me yes yeah yeah Carl what did you take a bonds layout yeah yeah I wouldn't agree mostly with the assessment uh you know that's a game again that the code is so early that you really have to you have to judge that game right now on the shots alone you know nothing else um I I look back to stranger things and when stranger things came out the code was just so Bare Bones it just wasn't fun to play yeah and I think bond is actually a little bit ahead of that but it you can still tell it's it's lagging stuff but I it has potential well I remember we talked about Bond last episode and that kind of started the conversation of Mech so the importance of mix because Travis was basically saying after playing the premium bond in the Pro Bond he was he was all he thought the pro Bond was better he's like the bond on a wand didn't really see the appeal to it the diverter or that lock the rocket lock he's like didn't really see in the underwater so it's like to him that was an instance where throwing in additional mechs didn't really necessarily make a better game that was his thought while something like Godzilla seems totally different the additional mechs take a great game and make it even better and um I think there's a lot when you look at a bunch of the the Reese even like rush you know I will say when I watched The Rush reveal I thought Pro those Pros the way to go those that ramp and that that the the dead end shot like I didn't see those as very important but now that I've played both um I definitely feel the added mechs really make that game better I don't I I know Tom I mean Tom's all the time I'm like lays on his Le almost every night and yeah and wax it I don't know Carl do you have a preference on Rush I would love I would love to hear you say you hate it just to see I just bought one it's sitting I haven't even turn it on yet it's sitting downstairs I need to it's it's on the list to play um so no I don't have a preference between the pro or the premium I haven't played enough of the game yet okay so to get a good sense of it um I think you will like it is my that's my guess based off of the the logic that Ray and Timmy built into that game I think you're gonna eat it up especially Carl if you need it there's a ray day did a uh babies first babies I watched it I like that it did it it was good it was a good it was a good primer I got a primer on the game before going to Expo because I I knew it was going to be in the certain pro circuit and an expo and I wanted to make sure that I knew at least a you know had a base level of knowledge and you got to the wizard mode the first time and I did get to the whiskey yeah for the first game my host scanned in so you got all the achievements she was happy I was happy that was a good time well done awesome um speaking of getting to the wizard mode so we're gonna hit we're gonna hit on well we'll just go into it so um I I was serious I actually my wife and I we kind of had a vacation away from the kids over the weekend and she she was we did a whole bunch of different activities went to Mammoth Cave which is insane if anybody's in Kentucky that cave is Mammoth it's huge it's insane it's so cool we did a bunch of cool stuff but Sunday night we had nothing to do and there's a bar I think it's called wreck bar um and it's and they had like 70 or 80 pins it was awesome and went in there and spent some time um my wife had a few drinks so she was actually interested in playing pinball and um it was cool we walked into the pinball room and the game she walked right up to the very first game she walked up to was Toy Story she saw Toy Story she's like oh Toy Story we go up we put in two players hit start and she goes did you ever have this one I was like yes this was in our basement for over a month you know like That's how little she cares about pinball um here at home but um I know when Zach and I streamed it he literally got to the wizard mode the night we streamed it now to be fair he had already had it for like a week or two it took me the whole time that probably three weeks I had it to finally get to the wizard mode Carl I know it was a struggle but I know you finally got to the wizard mode it's the super Loops that's what you know it's just a super Loop so we talked about this and this is what I will tell you so super Loops it's one of the seven things you have to qualify to get to a wizard mode you either hit three in a row or you have to hit it what it's like 14 times after you qualify super Lubes yeah right yeah yeah so it's it is a huge pain in the butt and on the one I had I could not do three in a row Carl the one you owned could you do three in a row I could not no sir everybody listening right that Ray day Mr rayday listening Carl D'Angelo on his could not do three in a row because that's what everybody in TP is giving me a hard time just hit three in a row peace what I will say is I went right up to the one in Rec bar that was my only goal I was like I want to see if I can get three in a row the very first ball three in a row boom boom boom so it's possible I think it's it's possible but I don't know Carl you're one to Tinker with your games I have no idea why the geometry on one would make it so much easier than another if I had it longer I would have thrown apart the ramp you know in the back because you know that that back shock is kind of shared yeah so the the loop has a little jump on it I assume it was just something there right around the jump area I don't know but it boy did it piss me off it really did but we had a good time on that I mean my wife I it's a great theme She was drawn to a good light show but did she asked when you're buying it then or no no sorry not like Travis and Monica who still owned one but all I had to do was show her the Duke Kaboom ramp and that was what she was going for that was the toy that that Drew her in and we played one or two games until she finally hit it um but what was cool is when she went to I forget she went to like buy another drink right next to it was an Iron Man premium and this is what kind of sparked my thought of this this idea of a game with or without Max I've played Iron Man or sorry not Iron Man Iron Maiden I've played Iron Man Iron Maiden Pro many times and had a good time like it's a good shooter feels good I'd never had a chance to play the premium and now that I have I really like the premium like that sarcophagus lock I I don't know maybe I'm just a sucker for diverters you know when you shoot a ramp and you're expecting the ball to come back and it doesn't because it diverted some diverted to somewhere else that's pretty sick the ramp lifting up it's just those those when the game changes when the geometry of the game changes for a particular shot I don't know it just it stood out to me where I was like okay well done Keith like I I don't do you guys have a preference when it comes to Iron Maiden Pro vs premium not really I I mean I own the pro so I'm completely fine with playing a pro yeah I had the pro for a while I'm trying to get a premium so there you go I'll take the premium uh it I find the premium a little more difficult right because the like the two rewards you know are on the left ramp instead of the the right orbit yeah yeah and it makes me wonder so that's that's a Keith game that the print I mean I'm liking the premium of Godzilla I think I'm preferring the premium on Iron Maiden um I like the premium um on Jurassic Park just because I'm a sucker for that T-Rex but I do know some people complain about that that they feel like the mouth kind of rejects um but and then the Raptor pits kind of take it or leave it I don't know if you guys have a preference when it comes to that or other I'd rather I'd rather Player Premium in a uh in a tournament why just because you can lock the ball easier in the Raptor pit in the Raptor pit oh you can like backhand it into it yeah okay yeah and then you get the additional 2x also it's easier to see that you've got the 2x during that Raptor multiball when you lock the ball behind there the pro just you can still get it but it it doesn't hold the ball right it's like like the Metallica snake you know it holds down there right and I know but Avengers Avengers is a game that I borrowed for from flipping out and had a pro and I had a great time on it but that's another one where I think the premium because of the the lock the disc that raises up instead of having to fit hit the what is it like The Fat Boy ramp in the back to start the mode you just have to kind of drop it in so I like that because I could be a little more strategic on when I want to hit the ramp while I think the spinning disc sometimes you the ball just falls into it I mean it's big gaping hole in the middle of the Playfield so sometimes you might start a gym before you want to do you feel like like that's a game another L1 game where the mechs help or hurt it with the pro vs premium on Avengers you still have yours Tom right I can see in the background I have my le yup yup I don't know you I mean pin Clash did you feel that there was an advantage with the pro vs premium on that Carl makes you turn off that stuff exactly yeah okay I had I had to make them you know as close as possible so yeah okay all right well no I I don't know I still don't know I I think the more that I've talked about the thought I'm still team Mech give me the mechs um I want the mechs everybody wants if they're gonna pay the money they want to have Max that ooh and all them but at the same time yeah we we all do agree it's not the max to sell the game it's the theme and then yeah but what's holding on Godzilla was not the theme it was the max in the code and the shots and all the other stuff so well cool um other games that I played my wife was really drawn to Big Lebowski she's not a Big Lebowski fan I think she's seen it one time in her life but the world under glass that Big Lebowski has to offer is insane I mean there's so many mechs in that game it took me multiple games to show her all the mechs in the game between the bowling alley down below watching the rug move back getting the car to swing out on the upper Playfield to bash that I there's a lot in that game have either of you spent any considerable time on Big Lebowski like no two or two or three games yeah yeah that shows I I would love to see more because apparently they just released a bigger code update unfortunately though my Big Lebowski experience my wife was like this game's awesome like she's like look at these things and look at this like she was just blown away with with the max she was born in the theme integration of the game unfortunately we played probably three games on it and two of those it crashed like straight up two player games put two dollars in two player games middle of the ball game like there was one point where I drained it didn't know I drained I I'm like I'm seeing it in the trough I shook it to see if it wasn't settled correctly tilted out and then it was stuck and just tilt and a tilt animation we got the tech and the guy comes over and and I was like yeah I explained he goes nah this is just some stupid Dutch people that don't know how to make a good game that was the text response literally turned off the game turned it back on opened the coin door and gave us two credits and walked away I was like wow okay tell me how you really feel kind of thing and then we start our next game and it was a similar thing where we're up top and my flippers just died like this flippers just died you sure you weren't playing Halloween okay Carl's I don't know me all right no but there was no Halloween day I watched the stone videos okay yeah oh I know Eric's response to Halloween I I wish there would have been a Halloween there I'm still I I still get people telling me how great Halloween is I know Tim Lee with poor man reached out to me and he said Halloween is probably his most played game in his house right now obviously he threw a big Halloween party but he's like to novice players it's an incredible theme the atmosphere is really cool there's great mechs in it like they were just drawn to it Tim also told me like GNR gets a ton of plays at his house and stranger things so those are the games that really draw him in but it goes back to theme doesn't it it's all themed but he said halloweeny's like the butt pretzel if you can if you can get up there like he feels the butt press was incredible so Carl you you I'm shaking my head yeah I know I completely disagree with that the geometry on the shot is just not right to me in my opinion I think Tim said something that he said some of the poor men are giving a hard time because he thinks it's one of the best shots in pinball is the butt pretzel you know um Weird Al has a very similar shot and Weird Al visited a lot better in my opinion yeah