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The Pinball Show Ep 164: Yeah, I'm Thinking Yoko's Back!

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 20m·analyzed·Nov 18, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern production updates, X-Men quality concerns, Beatles Gold return, and Bill & Ted pinball leak.

Summary

The Pinball Show hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss Stern Pinball production updates including continued Beatles Gold runs (under 100 units), Metallica Remastered shipping, Star Wars Comic builds starting in early December, and specialty December runs of Stranger Things, Jurassic Park, Jaws, and Black Knight Pro. Major focus on Uncanny X-Men quality issues (plunger failures, ramp inconsistencies) and debate about whether fan complaints risk discouraging manufacturers from taking creative risks on complex layouts.

Key Claims

  • Beatles Gold Edition being re-run with less than 100 units; original production run of 1964 total units was never fully built

    high confidence · Zach discussing Stern's December production updates and dealer communication about Beatles Gold allocation

  • Uncanny X-Men has significant plunger issues with up to 15% failure rate on skill shots, along with ramp continuity problems and ball falls from wire forms

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis discussing forum reports and first-hand experience with X-Men units in their showroom

  • Star Wars Comic Pro and Premium builds starting first week of December

    high confidence · Stern production schedule provided by Zach

  • Metallica Remastered accessories expected to be announced in December

    medium confidence · Zach's prediction based on typical accessory rollout timing

  • Bill and Ted pinball machine was scrapped/canceled, with artwork evidence surfacing in Jeremy Packer's social media posts

    medium confidence · Zach discussing Instagram/Facebook post by artist Jeremy Packer showing unpublished Bill and Ted artwork alongside other pinball WIP images

  • Beatles Gold MSRP set at $8,499, which is $1,200 cheaper than Premium model pricing

    high confidence · Zach citing pricing from Stern

  • Godzilla 70th Anniversary (black and white edition) production ending this week with no planned re-runs

    high confidence · Zach on production schedule: 'Godzilla 70th, that black and white anniversary edition, them's gone...once they're done making them this week'

Notable Quotes

  • “The return of Yoko. She's back.”

    Zach Minney @ ~00:18:00 — Playful reference to Beatles Gold re-run announcement; Yoko Ono being unpopular figure ties to Beatles Gold's previous lukewarm reception

  • “I do think that with modern pinball playing, you can debate it because I definitely think that it's a worthy discussion to have if pinball has turned too much into baby's first pinball, where every shot is safe.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~00:35:00 — Articulates broader design philosophy debate about difficulty/safety balance in modern vs. classic pinball

  • “I fear that if, as a hobby, we continue to bitch and moan and whine, then at some point I fear manufacturers like Stern Pinball might go, all right, fucking give them Led Zeppelin. Give them that fan layout.”

    Zach Minney @ ~00:38:00 — Expresses concern that excessive criticism of X-Men's complexity could discourage manufacturers from innovative design

  • “I am too pro-consumer to say that you should operate in fear of being punished by the manufacturers.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~00:40:00 — Counter-argument: consumers shouldn't suppress valid complaints for fear of manufacturer retaliation

  • “I think it's going to come down to sales. Uncanny X-Men is selling. They're going to go, all right, people want these weird-ass layouts, and they're going to keep making them.”

    Dennis Creasel @ ~00:43:00 — Argues market demand, not forum complaints, drives manufacturer decisions

  • “I think it was canceled or scrapped for some reason, thus him feeling like he could share this picture.”

    Zach Minney @ ~01:02:00 — Speculation about Bill and Ted pinball cancellation based on artist portfolio leak

Entities

Stern PinballcompanyZach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonUncanny X-MengameBeatles Gold EditiongameMetallica RemasteredgameGodzilla 70th AnniversarygameStar Wars ComicgameBill and Ted's Excellent Adventuregame

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Godzilla 70th Anniversary (black/white edition) production ending with no planned re-runs or 71st anniversary variants planned, indicating limited appetite for anniversary edition sequels

    high · Zach: 'Godzilla 70th, that black and white anniversary edition, them's gone...once they're done making them this week, they're ain't making them no more...They said basically there's no reason to make a Godzilla 71st anniversary'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Competitive players concerned about X-Men Sentinel mech causing unfair center drains on successful shots, creating skill-vs-luck debate about modern pinball design balance

    medium · Discussion of competitive players viewing center drain from defeated wire form as unfair penalty; debate about 'baby's first pinball' design philosophy vs. classic brutal difficulty

  • $

    market_signal: Dennis argues forum complaints have minimal impact on manufacturer decisions; sales performance is primary driver of future design direction and feature complexity

    medium · Dennis: 'What people whine about on Penn side is really not moving the needle...I think it's going to come down to sales...Uncanny X-Men is selling. They're going to go, all right, people want these weird-ass layouts'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: X-Men Sentinel mech creates game-state inconsistency where defeated wire form bridge causes unpredictable ball behavior (random center drain), with different outcomes between Pro and LE variants

    high · Discussion of Sentinel destroying wire form causing balls to race down middle randomly; different behavior on Pro vs LE models; competitive players view as unfair penalty for making shots

  • ?

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.242

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on an all-new The Pinball Show, Dennis and I chat about what's new in the world of pinball. Stern Pinball Production Updates. Stern running more Beatles gold machines. Additional December games going into production. Recent sales of Metallica Remastered and how they stack up to the field. Uncanny X-Men popularity and consumer feedback thus far. A scrapped Bill and Ted pinball machine? John Wick getting a boost. American pinball production and company updates. Other pinistry news and pinball market trends. Official TPS Club members this week get exclusive content covering discussion of sales and comparing game success across manufacturers, American Pinball's communication about retired games, and enthusiast perceptions. And we talk about whether or not some manufacturers are making a big mistake with how they are distributing their products overseas versus those going to the United States. All of this and more on episode 164 of the Pinball Show. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!
1:23
pinball is a game of skill for some it's a passion and a lifestyle it's time for the pinball show it's pinball with personality i can see her lying back in her satin dress in a room where you do what you don't confess Sundown, you better take care If I find you've been creepin' round my back stairs Sundown, you better take care Ladies and gentlemen, it's the Pinball Show. It's episode 164. I'm Zach Minney, alongside Dennis motherfuckin' Creasel. How's it going, Dennis? We're back. It's been 84 years? It's been a while. Or a month. It's been a month. What's that song? Is that Nickelback? It's been a while. I don't know Nickelback. Oasis? Who is that?
2:24
Jeremy Packer
person
Black Knight Sword of Rage Progame
Jawsgame
Jurassic Parkgame
Stranger Thingsgame
Brian Eddyperson
Travis Murrayperson
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Eric Menyaperson
Avengers Infinity Questgame
Pinball Forumsorganization

design_philosophy: Community concern that excessive criticism of complex layouts like X-Men may discourage manufacturers from future innovation, leading to retreat to safe fan layouts

medium · Zach: 'I fear that if, as a hobby, we continue to bitch and moan and whine, then at some point I fear manufacturers...might go, all right, fucking give them Led Zeppelin. Give them that fan layout...why take risks, designer teams'

  • ?

    leak_detection: Bill and Ted pinball machine artwork leaked via Jeremy Packer's social media posts alongside other pinball WIP images, suggesting project was scrapped/canceled and artist felt comfortable sharing

    medium · Zach: 'one of them was not identifiably pinball because we've not seen that title...it was artwork that I'm assuming made for pinball because all the other 12 were...Bill and Ted...I think he snuck it in there because, in fact, he did a lot of work on a Bill and Ted pinball machine that was going to be made, listener. But it was canceled or scrapped'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Stern's playfield testing/QA appears limited; Stranger Things (fan layout) and Venom (fan layout) had similar quality issues, suggesting process not catching complex layout problems in whitewood stage

    high · Dennis: 'we already talked about Stranger Things...Venom...And all the issues they had with that...their testing is probably pretty limited...I would have hoped that the white wood had been finished before they went for it'

  • $

    market_signal: Metallica Remastered and Godzilla 70th Anniversary selling 'incredibly well' despite quality concerns and anniversary edition redundancy, suggesting strong FOMO-driven demand

    high · Zach: 'those games sell incredibly well...Godzilla 70th, that black and white anniversary edition...I don't think they're going to maybe see metallica remastered premiums land until early december...Metallica Remastered...they're going to ship alongside continuation of Godzilla'

  • $

    market_signal: Beatles Gold original allocation of 1964 units was never fully produced; re-run now capped at <100 units; MSRP reduced $1,200 vs. original positioning, indicating pricing strategy shift and lower perceived value relative to newer games

    high · Zach: 'they never made their original number that they said they were going to make...they do have less than 100 to build...The studio run of the Gold is going to be set at $8,499. So that's $1,200 cheaper than a premium model'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jeremy Packer continuing active pinball artwork production with multiple WIP posts across social media, indicating ongoing engagement with Stern or other manufacturer projects

    medium · Zach discussing 13+ pinball-related WIP artwork posts by Packer on Instagram/Facebook, including Deadpool and Bill and Ted pieces

  • ?

    product_concern: Uncanny X-Men experiencing systematic plunger/skill shot failures (reported 10-15% range), ramp continuity issues, and ball falls from wire forms requiring post-sale adjustments

    high · Zach: 'Over the last couple of weeks, if you've watched the forums, listener, you'll see that Uncanny X-Men, while wildly popular, is getting a lot of discussion with required tweaks and modifications...shooter plunge, people are reporting to a significant degree...It's falling short'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: X-Men code state appears behind schedule, suggesting potential acceleration of whitewood to production despite incomplete software; plunger/ramp testing issues may be result

    medium · Dennis: 'The state of the code is explained by it being pushed up...I would have hoped that the white wood had been finished before they went for it...the code not being remotely where it should be is more indicative of the acceleration'

    • Stained. Oh, yes. The Nickelback of Tide. It's not been too long. I guess a couple extra weeks here, but I'm fired up and very, very ready to go. I've been working hard. I've been going to different events. Dennis, what about you? What have you been doing?
    2:44
    Well, it's been a lot of work. I've done a few things over with my wristwatch YouTube. Oh, this one, you'll appreciate this. So I did a video that criticized people that do reviews. And the reviewer folks, you know, the B-pluses out there, they have not been all that thrilled, though. The general public has been much more supportive of my position. I could imagine. But if they're responding, then they're paying attention. It's a little close to home. When's the next B-plus review coming out? You know, we made the choice to either we could just not do reviews anymore. We just say, fuck it. We really don't care. We like pinball, so we'll review. And if people want to bitch and cry about it, that's fine. They can bitch and cry about it. On to the next one. Speaking of on to the next one, hopefully that will not happen. To my experience, a couple weeks ago I went to this wedding. And you know what? I appreciate the outdoor weddings. I like them. They're not bad. Don't you think there's such a gamble, though, with the weather? I think I like the moxie there. I like the confidence. They didn't require me to dress in a certain way or anything like that. So it was a nice wedding. So invited to this wedding, outdoor wedding. More of a progressive wedding? Is that a thing? I don't know what that means. I'm used to very traditional. Like the wedding march and all that. Yeah, typically Catholic-based, cathedral-style mass weddings. Lots of organ. I love me some organ, yes. I just pictured Elvira. We go to this wedding very progressive in that there were readings done, but they weren't readings from the Book of or anything like that. There were more readings from family and friends that had a message within them. So the bride and groom still standing up there instead of reading to the Book of Luke or anything. They read their own message to the bride and groom. So a little bit more progressive. One individual was reading to the attendees and talking about how they met and, you know, the Briden Group's obsessions with movies and stuff like that. And all of a sudden, Dennis, the individual said something, you know, you guys love movies and you love these obscure blah, blah, blah, almost akin to my love for pinball. It was you. You're the speaker.
    5:05
    He was dead the whole time? You were the joy of Christmas all along. That's right. Bob Cratchit. No. So he said, akin to my love for pinball. And he says, I know Zach Minney from Flippin' Out Pinball knows what I'm talking about. Oh, you paid for a plug at a wedding. I got a Flippin' Out plug. Things are that dire. I didn't know the industry was that bad. Round of applause. Thank you. Wow. Needless to say, that guy's definitely going to get one hell of a discount next time he orders a game. He gave me a shout-out for my company mid-wedding reading. It was fucking awesome. That is going to be rated right up there. There was a person, I used to watch their YouTube channel, and one of the members of it, they focused on movies, YouTube channel movies, and one of the guys on there was getting married, and they actually got Dwayne the Rock Johnson to officiate the wedding. Yes. And during it, he plugged that skyscraper movie.
    6:06
    Yes. And I was just like, that is what this reminds me of. So tacky. It was so great. It made my entire month. Well, of course it did for you. I could not help but to respond right in the middle of the ceremony. I was in the back and I stood up and said, heck yeah, man. I sat down. I gave him a little fist bump afterwards. I was like, my God. Completely ruined that. You are getting a discount for sure. So I guess progressive is what I'm describing. Right? It's so funny because Nicole was like, really? She likes to see her sliding down in the lawn chair lower and lower. Yeah. So that was a cool event that I attended. Shout out. You know who you are out there. Oh, my gosh. You've listed that game. I'll bring it to you. A lot of stuff going on this week. Let's jump into Stern Pinball alone. in the past couple of weeks, listener, they've been building Godzilla 70th Anniversaries, Godzilla Premiums, the color version, and Metallica Remastered LEs have hit the line. I have been hearing some interesting stuff about this Metallica, but go on. So we're going to go post-gate. Is that where we're going? That one might be. All right, so Metallica Remastered, they're starting to ship. Throughout this week, they're going to ship alongside continuation of Godzilla 70th, Godzilla Premium Colors. So that's kind of what they've been focusing on as of late. And you know why, listener? Because those games sell incredibly well.
    7:43
    I have a Metallica remastered Ellie right now sitting in my game room. I have not unboxed it yet. Well, I mean, you know most of the game already, I assume. Well, it's a different game, so we'll see. I mean, I know. I heard Travis over on Triple Drain. I was like, Dennis, you're not right at all. I know. But then he wasn't sure about the post. Travis agreeing with me. That's different. We'll just put in a post in everything and make it a new game.
    8:16
    Do you think that would solve the Ghostbusters thing? Should they just put a center post between the flippers? I don't think so. I don't think they should touch it. I've had some others. You used to. They need to fix the gap. No, I don't know. I think it's numbers don't lie. It's, it's sold very well. So just keep it. Don't, I do think it would play fine as a standard gap to game, but I don't think it throws geometry off enough, but, uh, no, I say keep it. So last couple of weeks they've been building that. Keep in mind people that Godzilla 70th, that black and white anniversary edition, them's gone. One, once they're done making them this week, they're ain't making them no more. Yeah. Until they come out with another very similar looking premium, like the Godzilla blood red edition.
    9:01
    75th anniversary might be different. His little flame will be red and sparkly, but everything else will be black and white. They said basically there's no reason to make a Godzilla 71st anniversary. I'll tell you what, they probably would if the sales had been like they were two years ago. Oh, yeah. I don't know, man. This thing is selling very well. And then the rest of November, I know that the week of the 25th, so that Thanksgiving week, they're going to start on Metallica premiums. so uh i i don't think we're going to maybe see metallica remastered premiums land until early december and i'll tell you why because most of the shipping companies and stern they're going to stop shipping probably wednesday of thanksgiving week so i i don't see them building for two days starting that line and already getting something shipped out so they probably will not ship into that following week, which falls into the 1st of December. But we'll see. We will see. Speaking of December, Star Wars Comic Pro and Premium, they're aiming to start building those in the first week of December, so we're going to see those very soon. And then, newly announced from Stern Pinball, two dealers, there's going to be an eensy weensy, just a wee bit, some specialty runs that are going to close out the month of December. That is their existing outstanding orders for Stranger Things Pro, Jurassic Park Pro, Jaws Pro, Jaws Premium. So some big hot titles there. And then more Black Knight Pros. You heard it, listener. The Sword of Rage Pro is coming back for some more run. And then the Beatles Gold Edition. What? Whoa. What? I knew it never did well enough, and I wondered if it had ever actually sold out of its allotment, because that is a limited count run. Yeah, the return of Yoko. She's back. Yeah, so they had 1964 total games. I think it was like 350-something edition, the Platinum Edition, 100 of the Diamond Edition, which left them, what's left them, like 16, 14, something like that. But what you need to know, listener, is that they didn't build all of those because people are like, this is an outrage. They're going to make more LEs. This is bullshit. Well, they never made their original number that they said they were going to make. So I don't see that as – At the time, for those that weren't in the hobby, I'd say the main issue was the fact that it was a single-level game, and even the gold version was more than a pro. So a lot of people just couldn't reconcile it. Yeah. They did say to dealers that they do have less than 100 to build. So it's not like they're doing this big run because people are like, well, are they going to do the Beatles topper and accessories again? And no, they're not planning on any of that because if they're just selling less than 100 now, there's no need to jump into the accessories thing again. That's just what they said. Interesting to me here, though. So three years ago when the Beatles were out, if not longer, the price of them relative to, as you were talking about, the pro or premium or LE counterparts was significantly different than the difference in pricing now from this Beatles run comparative to the pro premium LE. What I mean by that is that the MSRP on these Beatles Gold has not seen the inflation-esque type of numbers as the rest of the Cornerstone model. So the studio run of the Gold is going to be set at $8,499.
    12:36
    So that's $1,200 cheaper than a premium model. So I think the value is substantially better now on a Beatles than it was when it was first released. And that was the biggest complaint, I think, whenever it was released was, man, it's a lot of money for – and then they were like, well, the license was expensive. Well, you know, remember that was the whole – it doesn't have ramps. Yeah, a million-dollar license. It's just – and we've seen this happen with a lot of games, even really popular ones amongst enthusiasts like Total Nuclear Annihilation. Single-level games do not appeal to a vast swath of modern collectors. That said, I do think they sell out at this point. I think they'll move it.
    13:22
    It was a fun game. I played it a number of times. It's one of my favorite sterns. But, I mean, yeah. But, yeah, back then it was like this much for Sea Witch 2.0. And, listener, for further analysis on this story, as always, you can dive deeper with us as an official club member of the Pinball Show. Go to patreon.com slash thepinballshow for exclusive content such as us talking about this more. I think we're going to jump into on Patreon. I'm going to talk about some of the sales recently across the manufacturer, especially across Stern here as we are into Q4. I think people are going to find some of these sales points very, very interesting whenever you put them all out on the table and compare them. So join us over there if you are a club member. Thank you for the continued support. If not, jump over there. The minimum membership fee is $10 a month. So heck, why not? Jump over there. Let's talk more about the Beatles and sales in general. If we're talking about accessories and the production updates there, we did get an announcement of a new accessory package. This coming from Godzilla's 70th anniversary by Stern Pinball. We got the black and white accessories not only announced in us, but they've already started shipping. Oh. So no longer do you have to have a topless Godzilla 70. I wonder how long they had to soak those toys and things in acetone and strip all the color out. And then I heard some people, like, complain. They're like, wait a minute. There's still some LEDs that are colored on the topper. It should always be white. Oh, well.
    14:54
    I would respect the purity of the commitment if they had just done white ones. Then everyone would want them to charge less for the topper because they didn't need color-changing RTVs. Or they would think that, like, Godzilla's just like Snoop Dogg now. He's just blowing smoke. He's not even blowing fire. Just smoke. he's chasing clouds what is it? What's the thing where the vapes and they blow the big clouds? Godzilla 70th Anniversary accessories are now out.
    15:24
    Still to be announced, Venom accessories, John, I don't know where any of that stuff is. Uncanny X-Men accessories, Metallica Remastered accessories. Well, they did say that Metallica Remastered accessories were supposed to fall at the end of this first run or so. So I would anticipate December they will announce Metallica Remastered accessories.
    15:43
    Over the last couple of weeks, if you've watched the forums, listener, you'll see that Uncanny X-Men, while wildly popular, is getting a lot of discussion with required tweaks and modifications for things to flow smoothly, such as the shooter. The shooter plunge, people are reporting to a significant degree. Yeah, I've seen that more than any other thing is complaints about the plunge. It's not plunging manually or automatically up and around the ramp back through the habit trail. It's falling short.
    16:17
    It reminds me exactly of Avengers Infinity Quest when, I mean, even on my Avengers, it still wouldn't plunge all the way. Like, every once in a while, I'd make it all the way up around the wire form. But if not, it falls back down to, what's the bird guy?
    16:34
    Hawkeye? No, not Hawkeye. It's the bird guy. The bird. Andrew Mackey. Some Mackey played that. Captain America's counterpart.
    16:44
    Captain Bird. Oh, Falcon. It would fall into the Falcon little rollover and then come down. So it feels very much like that. People are saying, well, there's screws poking out or like it needs this adjusted. It needs a washer here. So Stern initially, they acknowledged it and they said, okay, yeah, we're seeing what you're seeing. They started sending out like automatic, new automatic plungers. But then they came out and told us dealers and I think the rest of the community as well, hey, we are still working on adjustments and fixes for the shooter. And people were reporting like the one of the ramps, a continuation ramp, one of the flaps is coming up. And then like the ball falls off a wire form every now and then. so oh dear a little bit i would say more adjustments needed than a standard fan layout brian eddie game or like i don't know uh stranger things had its share of issues yeah going into demogorgon no they were almost always the demogorgon and tk lock yeah so yeah that's right tk so we're getting a lot of reports now some people are like well is that because they push this game up? Or is that because this game is just much more of a complex, original type of unique layout? And to that, I don't know what your answer is, Dennis, but I would say, why not both? I would lean more to the latter personally. It's the complexity of it. The state of the code is explained by it being pushed up. I would have hoped that the white wood had been finished before they went for it. So we've just seen with Stern that they don't have the best reputation in the business about troubleshooting their games before they go into production. Again, the Demogorgon stuff, for example, was seen by a lot as a shocking drop of the ball, like how did this toy come out in this state? How did you not know? And that was, as I recall, that was their answer was in our testing it was fine. And so I'm assuming this one was tested and it was fine, but their testing is probably pretty limited. I remember Rush had some things, too. Oh, it's all sorts. So, yeah, I mean, it could be a why not both, but I want to say that X-Men wouldn't have been the thing that had been moved up or it wouldn't have come out when it did if the white wood wasn't finalized. I really struggle to think they would have half-baked the design. The code not being remotely where it should be is more indicative of the acceleration. So we do have a pro and an Ellie in our showroom, and I notice these issues on the plunge. I've noticed some balls falling off of the Ellie, like the finger flick and or, you know, like some people are like, well, when the other sentinel hand destroys the wire form, the ball always races down the middle. okay so i'm mixed on these dennis for something like that i'm like uh duh of course uh if a sentinel is breaking a ball bridge and is battling the player who gives a shit if the ball is coming towards the center drain nudge better like i what i fucking it like when it like when competitive pinball players complain about magnets like oh how dare they have something that makes this fun what that part of the game people getting people getting insta-drained is not fun i think if you're a great pinball player then you can pretty much save most center drain shots i okay but i think if you're a pretty good pinball player. A lot of them are going to be playing competitively as well. And they're going to say, why am I being punished for making a shot? Especially when the pro doesn't do it. Because you're battling the sentinel. Why, whenever I'm playing a video game, why do I get hit by the boss during the final stage? Because they're fucking battling me. That's why. That's the easiest explanation that really has no challenges. Well, I mean, you can claim there are no challenges. I'm going to tell you, Zach, that with modern pinball playing, you can debate it because I definitely think that it's a worthy discussion to have if pinball has turned too much into baby's first pinball, where every shot is safe. And as long as you make your shots, you get rewarded with additional play instead of keeping these games short and brutal like how they used to be. But for a lot of people, that is how they view pinball at this state. And if a game is going to cheat them on, and that's how I think they view it, is going to cheat them for making a shot and not cheat them on a different model for making a shot, then they have a problem with it and so i mean they'll they'll probably argue for it's okay if the ball goes straight down the middle if they do something like how godzilla would recognize its risks of the building being straight down the middle and would give very short ball saves to try and accommodate for that um so there's a programming fix that can solve this but they would view it as needing fixed whereas you clearly do not view it as needing fixed no no not the story it's telling in that pinball moment and what a pinball moment that is now i could see if the the ball was consistent in its pathway following that wire form breaking okay but here's the problem in no way shape or form design wise can it be consistent it is very much random it's within a window range of of you know physics sure but it is not going perpendicular right in between the flippers every time and guess what if it was guys there's a center post there's no argument here just yeah nudge better play better here's my thing the whole ball over the wire form stuff all right bend your damn wire forms a little bit so the ball don't fall off right uh i wasn't as bothered by the plunge thing because I'm used to Avengers and I'm used to, unfortunately, not a great excuse, but I'm used to putting shooter rods, accessory shooter rods on all my games, which always messes up a full plunge. But like to the extent that people are like, this game's a lemon. I can't make a skill shot.
    23:07
    Maybe I'm just giving too much leeway for new pinball machines, but like, okay, you miss a, you miss a skill shot.
    23:17
    Okay. Can you play a mode? You miss a skill shot every now and then. Who cares? So it's okay? It's not okay. It's okay to miss a skill shot, not because they weren't skilled, but because the game didn't work right? Is that the argument? Give me a percentage, and I'll tell you if it's okay.
    23:37
    If it's happening 10% of the time, it makes some adjustments. If it's happening 100% of the time, okay. That absolutely is a problem with the solution. but I would also argue it doesn't mean the entire game is a limit. Like that's sometimes when I read on the forums, I'm like, uh, I'm doing the, the Robert Downey eye roll. Like for fuck's sake, like it's a, it's a plunge. The ball gets into play. Okay. Again, not okay. Will and can be fixed probably, but it doesn't mean it's like, you know what? I've had it. I can't, I can't deal with this game. Oh, God, come on. That's just my own personal opinion. That's all. And one that's so easy to argue. So for any of you out there that want to argue that, yeah, it's because I'm making money and I want to go against the man. This should be perfect. Okay. Take the easy low-hanging fruit. That's fine. I'll take the hard argument. The hard argument is it's still fucking a great pinball machine. Here's my other argument that I want to see what you say about this, Dennis.
    24:41
    I feel pretty strongly about this. my worry is and again i don't want to reinforce bad craftsmanship and a level of quality on new pinball products whether it's stern jersey jacks or whoever it is however sometimes i worry because something like uncanny x-men is almost the epitome of what i look forward to in new pinball machines That is interactive toys and mechs that are industry leading. Pathways and layouts that are so unorthodox and still smooth and satisfying that they are novel and so exciting and fresh and new.
    25:29
    So the epitome of what I look for in new pinball machines that I feel like we've sorely missed for many titles in the past. I fear that if, as a hobby, we continue to bitch and moan and whine, then at some point I fear manufacturers like Stern Pinball might go, all right, fucking give them Led Zeppelin.
    25:51
    Give them that fan layout. Like, why? Let's not take risks, designer teams, because then it turns out that, you know, a fan layout is a fan layout. We've perfected that. But when we do this continuation of shots that goes up ramps, we don't know what it's going to do with the ramp flat. So, you know what? Take your creativity and sit on the bench because clearly the hobby doesn't want that because it may require more adjustment. That's what I fear.
    26:23
    What do you think? Am I – do I have a rightful fear or – I don't know. I worry about it, though. Well, I don't know if that should be the concern of the consumer, though. Let's not bring up issues because we're worried that we'll be punished by lack of creativity. I know. Especially given that Stern, we already talked about Stranger Things, the second fanniest fan layout to ever fan by them, the first being Venom. And all the issues they had with that. And that was a fan layout, a basic layout. And so I don't think it's necessarily indicative of the design's originality, so to speak, versus just a poor – again, I don't want to necessarily say it's poor craftsmanship, but poor setup, if nothing else. But again, this is a stern case in point with throwing games in Costco and stuff. they're trying to make this more and more of a thing that the everyday person who does not have the knowledge skills or expertise to work on their own games to buy this stuff so i'm sorry they have to step it up they chose this path they chose the path of more sales and that meant targeting consumers and consumers are not going to be cool with being told that 15 of the time the plunge isn't going to work and that they need to be bending their wire forms it's just i can't argue This is a bed they made themselves. It's not the consumer's fault. And so I just tend to be – your concerns may be right. I will acknowledge that. However, I am too pro-consumer to say that you should operate in fear of being punished by the manufacturers. And so I cannot support a stance that we need to shut up because they might punish us by going back to being basic. And I want to make it clear, I'm not suggesting that as consumers we shut up.
    28:29
    That's strong. I am saying that, and I could be wrong in my feeling, that I am just concerned because I know how fragile this industry and this product is. And it just scares the shit out of me because what I love so much, I don't want that to go away. It's like a balancing act. Would I like more basic stuff that's going to be more consistent? Or am I okay as a consumer risking cooler shit if there's more window for that? Okay. I'm thinking, remember Jersey Jack Pinball and we all fell in love with him? The Wizard of Oz and then the Hobbit. People were like, eh. But then we got stuff. What happened? We started turning our nose up because everybody started saying, well, they're more basic now. They don't put as much in there anymore. Remember Pirates of the Caribbean when that came out, listener? They teased us with this triple spinning disc. They teased us with this trunk that opened up. There was still cool shit in there. But then once the rubber met the road, Eric Menya had a video with his capstone red Wisconsin hat turned around saying in a somber tone, we're pulling some of these cool ass features because we're worried about long term of them or having to change a part out in the future because one out of so many have shown where I just I worry, but I want cool shit and pinball. And I just worry that these companies won't take risks.
    30:02
    There's a difference between, say, bringing up issues versus just completely destroying a game, too.
    30:11
    I mean, your concern may be founded. I don't think so. I think it's going to come down to sales. Yeah, that's true. Uncanny X-Men is selling. They're going to go, all right, people want these weird-ass layouts, and they're going to keep making them. That's what I think. I think money is what talks. And what people whine about on Penn side is really not moving the needle. Great point. But I could be wrong. I think it's a good point. But yeah, so that's what that's where my mind as a hobbyist has been because I'm like, geez, I just freaking love this X-Men game. And I know, you know, it's got this adjustment thing. But man, speaking of speaking of being in love.
    30:49
    I myself am in love with Zombie Eddie artwork, Jeremy Packer artwork. Just love it. Can't get enough of it. People are like, maybe we're seeing too much zombie. Oh, I will tell you to shut up then. No, go sit down. I love this. Don't worry. I came across a post that Jeremy Packer put on, I think, Facebook, social media. It might have been on Instagram. I don't know. But I don't know if anybody's talked about this. I've seen it, though, and it made me go, can we get one of those patented creasel? No.
    31:18
    No. See if it's gas. We see so much of his art. I can't gas. Oh, no. No, you're not one of them. One of us. He did this post. Now, I'm a sucker for these posts when they're like, you know, work in progress posts of artwork that I've snapshotted so that I can look at when I'm out of the office and like playing for the next time I sit down, all this stuff. And over the last, I don't know, I sat down and looked through my pictures and I'll share some of them, work in progress kind of things. And there was like 13 pics that he's posted. And one was, it didn't show it in the preview because it was later in the series of pictures. And they were all pinball related, identifiably, like Deadpool showing maybe some different characters on the play fields. Just really cool shit. But one of them was not identifiably pinball because we've not seen that title. And it was artwork that I'm assuming made for pinball because all the other 12 were. It was a Bill and Ted. Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure or Bogus Adventure, whatever it may be. But it was of Keanu Reeves and the – it was Bill. Yeah, he was Bill with the Grim Reaper and some of the other characters. But playing it in there, picture number 10 or whatever, was a little sneak peek of Bill and Ted. Now, I think that either Jeremy Packard did this by mistake. I don't think he did that, but it could happen. And I think he snuck it in there because, in fact, he did a lot of work on a Bill and Ted pinball machine that was going to be made, listener. But it was canceled or scrapped for some reason, thus him feeling like he could share this picture. Hmm. Uh-huh. You see the picture now, Dennis. What do you think? I do. I have to admit. And was it black and white originally? Yep. It's just like this. Because when I first saw it, I didn't know what it was. And some of the other pictures were black and white because it was like almost like that's what his illustration before he colored it. Right. And when I first saw it, I have to admit, I knew it was Keanu Reeves, but I did not identify it as being Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. Oh, really? Which is the one with death. Yeah. No, because I thought, why are there fraggles in the lower corner? And then death. When I saw him, I think I was thinking Billy Bob Thornton from Sling Blade. Oh, no. I was all over the place when I saw this. And I thought, maybe it's some sort of montage of movies he likes.
    33:46
    But anyway. Maybe. Maybe I'm getting these wrong. Yeah, it was probably for the best that they didn't make it. Really? Yeah. I think it might have worked. It probably would have, but it's fine. So, yeah, I think it's scrapped, though. I don't think this is something we'll see. I would even say Back to the Future should be done over Bill and Ted. So you're really anti-Bill and Ted, then? No, I prefer the Bill and Ted movies to Back to the Future personally. I'm just saying, this is for the best for the manufacturers. To me, it feels like a pinball thing. I think it would work. I think it could work. But I just don't feel like it's loved as much. If you're trying to sell the game just off of theme, there are so many better ones still that have never been done than this. This or Dungeons & Dragons? This would be probably preferable to Dungeons & Dragons.
    34:37
    Are we doing just generic Dungeons and Dragons or the Chris Pine movie? No, not the Chris Pine movie. Okay, because it struggled at the box office, even though it's a pretty good movie. No, I'd say Bill and Ted. You know, that's the rumor still. The rumor is January Cornerstone,
    34:53
    Dungeons and Dragons, Brian Eddy, Dwight Sullivan. Okay, well, I mean, 2025 needed to know what its John Wick was going to be, and I guess we didn't.
    35:04
    Speaking of John Wick... So you're saying And I'm a natural 20. Let's re-segue into... Now, I didn't yet make any of those advertisements, but man, oh man, there's so many worthy of it. Like Metallica, Beatles, Gold.
    35:18
    Okay. I guess I have a plus two dexterity vest. I'm trying to Dungeons and Dragons him. Well, you killed my familiar for my dead witch, ogre, half-elf wife. Sounds like one of your ex-girlfriends. I cast magic missile at the darkness. Speaking of John Wick, new code for John Wick that people are actually raving about. Thank God. 0.91 code where they added lights out. Think Johnny Mnemonic.
    35:49
    So this lights out. I remember so little Johnny Mnemonic. Power down mode. I just remember there was, oh gosh, I've only played the game like once. It's a good game. Yeah, the game is pretty good. the movie i understand why gomez called back the home base i was like can we get out of this no there was a dolphin with a with a weird thing on its head yeah all right so uh new but people are really they're raving this it's oh man it's nice raving is such a strong word no one owns this game a lot of people like this code they're telling me i've i look dennis i'm your president now I'm hearing great things about John Wick. I'm appointing John Wick to my cabinet.
    36:39
    John Wick's sales struggled so much. I am amazed that Stern didn't start including a sticker kit so you could just stick guns on. Everywhere.
    36:48
    You just stick one over the nunchucks, stick one over the sword. Re-applicable. It's like a shotgun perfectly designed to cover the swords. Oh, my God. Just all the stickers, just a little book of stickers. I think competitive players will like this rule, and it's effects-y enough for us hobbyists as well, where you qualify, you go into the bottom in lanes, the Yaga in lanes, and then with the action button you can press this, and you get two times scoring multiplier on all the game scoring, and there are motion sensors that illuminate a range of play-filled inserts for 10 seconds, and then you can add 20 seconds. It is a very moment-based kind of thing that is reminiscent to the film series, especially during some of the cut sequences of the fighting in the clubs and different things. So, yeah, it's pretty phenomenal. It's cool. There was also a new code for Uncanny X-Men, V.87, that was really hefty, a really hefty one that owners have said was very much needed but still more to come. But at .87, still have high hopes. I still, I think I still like that layout more than Jaws. I think it's my favorite layout probably since, maybe since Foo Fighters. Like, I love that layout.
    38:12
    All right, new code also for Elvira's House of Horrors, Led Zeppelin, and Foo Fighters. They all got code updates for the expression speaker lighting upgrades. Ah, yes. Yeah, other general adjustments as well, especially Elvira's House of Horrors. You've got some other extra stuff, but check that out.
    38:27
    All right, let's talk about American Pinball. America. Our favorite company. Insert eagle. Click on.
    38:35
    Pinween. Pinween is over. Is it now Pinsgiving? Pinsgiving. Yeah. I don't know. A cornucopia of inventory we're sitting on.
    38:48
    Cornucopia. Yeah, that sounds like something that, what's the poop monster? Oh, no, Suey. That's Suey's day. Let Suey have his corn. Back off.
    38:59
    This is me and Granny's holiday. Okay. So American Pinball, remember they retired officially up in the rafters, the Oktoberfest, speaking of October. And so they got rid of, they retired that. Then some news came out that Houdini and Legends of Valhalla were going to be retired. Yes, I actually covered this on the last episode of Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Yes, we were going to cover it here. A lot of people did. We were, yeah. I think it was just the way it was presented to us dealers because there are dealers out there now that not that they have seen myself as a dealer give information out to mass public. but their way of doing it is as soon as they get information, they run to like nap arcade or they run to, you know, and try to get it out there. So that's what dealers are doing now. And they, they messaged us dealers and said, Hey, they did say something to the effect of we're wrapping up Houdini and legends of Valhalla, Ellie deluxes or whatever. I get so messed up with those models over there for legends of Valhalla, but then they followed up with dealers to clarify some things. I'm not going to read this verbatim, but I'll give you some of the information that was included because then we've seen people report on it. And then we saw Kerry Hardy just obliterated the company about just decisions and different things So American Pinball comes out to the dealers and says look we going to clear up some things about this Only Oktoberfest has been retired. Let's make that clear. Okay. We would also like to clear up the mistake of inadvertently that we did in our distribution communication a week or two ago. The word retire was used incorrectly. That's on us in reference to Houdini and Legends of Valhalla. They're not being retired. Right now we do have, they gave a number of Houdinis that are still in the production line for the remainder of the year. And Legends of Valhalla, the limited edition, they said to reiterate, is limited. So if we make all of those at some point and they're no longer in stock, it's not going to return to the line, thereby retaining the value of the product for those purchasing it. However, we do continue to run the classic versions of those games, and we'll review the status of that next year. Let's see. Also talked about pricing. They said we are not retiring those games, so there's still a pricing threshold that you have to meet. You cannot go under that. I did find it interesting, though. They talked about the minimum advertised pricing is not in effect for Oktoberfest because they have officially retired it. So dealers can sell Oktoberfest for whatever the hell they want to since it's officially retired. Now that's something that I don't believe other manufacturers do. Like Stern, if they stop making something, they still hold dealers to the agreement of, you know, map pricing or MSRP.
    42:03
    So, you know, they said thanks for, they'll continue to support Oktoberfest. They're going to be at IAPA, et cetera. And then they also said they wanted to let everybody know that, you know, recent videos out there that are presenting inaccuracies and misinformation, they want to let everybody know that those parties did not formally reach out to American Pinball to ask any questions for clarification prior to doing their videos. So they said, we just want to let you know it's not like anybody reach out to us to ask us these questions for us to present to them the correct information that they were worried about. So, for further analysis on this story, to dive deeper, why don't people, if you guys are interested in this, there's your information. There's your news. I think Dennis and I are going to dive deeper. As an official club member, you can hear us do so right now. Let's talk about Chicago Gaming Company. Want to? Okay.
    43:03
    They're running fast over there. They're running a tight ship. recently announced over the last month or so, last couple weeks, that Cactus Canyon, that enhancement package, they're estimating that to be early 2025.
    43:19
    And then Pulp Fiction LEs. Where's my Pulp Fiction production? CGC has actually made some social media comments and posts. And in some of those comments, they said, quote, we're shipping our first batch internationally in November, that is of Pulp Fiction Ellie, and North American games will start shipping in December, end quote. So they plan on running internationally here in November, starting those North America, starting in December, and then finishing wrapping up production of Pulp Fiction Ellie's in the spring of 2025. They're aiming February, March-ish. Then they will gear up for MMR. The term gear up can be interpreted in different ways. timeline wise. I don't know how long gear up means, but does that mean immediate or does that mean another year while we're prepping for that? I don't know.
    44:13
    But that's the recent updates. It's still, I mean, as of March of 2025, it's going to be two years. Yes. It's been two years. Flippin' Out Pinball, if you guys are subscribers to their YouTube channel, uploaded a Monster Bash Remake LE game tutorial from Joel Engelberth. Everybody likes the Joel tutorials, so go check that out.
    44:39
    Turner Pinball, in the news, they sold out all 100 pre-orders of their Ninja Eclipse pinball machines.
    44:45
    This young company with their first game, Ninja Eclipse, sold out. Congratulations Turner Pinball. Dutch Pinball, always in the news here, as of late with their DBX. we haven't heard much about alice's adventures in wonderland post expo for better or worse but now people are already talking about back to the future back to the future there's a rumor from canada's pinball podcast that barry from dutch pinball has now been meeting and discussing having that back to the future pinball machine contract manufactured by stern pinball or jersey Jack pinball or other, because with such a big licensed property, there just is no way to efficiently produce the number of units at the quality you need and the time you need for like they basically that's a big bite you took and you might need help chewing it. So the rumor from Canadian Pinball Podcast is that Barry has been speaking with other manufacturer to see if they would be interested in contract manufacturing for them, or maybe more than that, maybe more than just merely contract manufacturing, actually transferring the license terms over in their entirety.
    46:07
    That is with Barry probably still getting, you know, a per game. What do they call that? Commission, I guess a commission royalty kind of thing. And so this media source was saying maybe it makes more sense financially for Barry just to make a shitload of money by not even touching a thing. Because it's reported out there that there's not even a Whitewood for Back to the Future.
    46:40
    Like there's nothing right now. So people are like, well, if Stern took it over, what about Keith Elwin?
    46:47
    We've heard Keith Elwin really likes that theme. Would that sell even better? But we've also heard that Stern said that the design teams didn't want this game. I struggle with this rumor.
    47:00
    Jersey Jack has never done contract manufacturing, have they? No, but I'm not saying they wouldn't be open to it. And Stern hasn't done it in years. Why wouldn't they just wait Barry out and get the license after he lost control of it? Good point. The only reason it makes me think there might be something to this, especially with the Stern pinball, is that Joe Cam and Cal is tied to it. That's the one thing that makes me believe that. Because I remember we talked about that. Gary doesn't have the power he used to anymore. Joe isn't buddies with Seth. I don't think you need to be. I think Joe Kamenkow was smart in it because when he went over there and got that or helped them with that whole license and everything, this is all reported, of course, but the rumored license back to the future helped them get that. I always thought, like, that's kind of weird. There's something I wonder going on. But maybe the long game was old Cammy Cow saying, you know, maybe we shift back over to manufacturing this sucker in the States by Stern Pinball, who can get this job done fast. That's interesting. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. And I should clarify, I actually don't know if Joe is buddies with Seth or not. I have no idea. Might be old smoking buddies. You never know. I have no idea. I don't know. It just seems weird. It seems extra weird if it's Jersey Jack. I really struggle to imagine that. They have no history of contract manufacturing. They're much faster than they used to be about producing games, but we've heard that purportedly they have so many other big licenses that make sense for them to do instead of touching this. Stern would be the most likely one, and I would believe that Barry would be trying. I just – if I were Stern, I mean, they get their licenses so many years in advance, I would just think they're like, why would we deal with this guy? Why not just wait? Is he just going to keep re-upping it to not build them and not make any money? Would the company even allow it? I think it would make total sense for them if they say to themselves, hey, we will acknowledge that we kind of fucked up not securing this behemoth license when we could have. Now this is our second opportunity. If his little cut royalty, you know, the add-on is kind of small enough to say this is our second chance,
    49:13
    let's not fuck this up again. If he's only wanting, like, we can make him a rich man at $50 a machine here, let's do that immediately. I still think you put this license way higher on a pedestal than it deserves. Me and the rest of the industry, I guess. Whatever. If that was true, then Stern wouldn't have said no in the first place. Polls have been taken. Data has been accrued. You can poll and accrue and collate as much as you wish. Paul and Nobel? I could more easily see Stern going and having this conversation with Jersey Jack about getting Harry Potter than this.
    49:53
    That's the only license bigger, in my opinion, right now. Speaking of Jersey Jack, Pinball, they haven't contract manufactured anything, but I wouldn't rule it out.
    50:04
    But for this particular project, I don't see it happening. It is interesting to note that their production updates on Avatar CE, I thought they were like mid-November is when they were going to start building and shipping some Avatar CEs. I did reach out for an update. It sounds as if that is true, but they're going to ship to international first. So that will put Avatar CE production and even subsequently shipping in the U.S. mid to late December, if not possibly January. And I don't know why I was like, wow, it's just further out than I thought, especially in a title like Avatar. Because, like, what do they build now? I guess they're starting the line for CEs because Avatars have the LEs. They've built those for over a month now. Maybe there's more Elton John demand. That is a possibility, I suppose. So it brought up a really interesting question to me, Dennis. where I remember in the past it was really big for like Stern Pinball. They would get games in containers and going overseas because it took about two weeks to go overseas. So they would land about the same time that the domestic ones would land, right? But other manufacturers following suit, I'm starting to wonder if that's a good decision. That is, getting games overseas first, when it's going to take you over a month after that even to start the U.S., That means you are prioritizing overseas sales, which is fine if that's what you want to do. However, one could argue that the bulk, the major focus population of your consumer base is most certainly not only the United States, but I would argue probably the United States is larger of a consumer base for your particular product than that of Canada, Europe, Australia, and everything else non-U.S. combined. Would you agree or disagree? I would agree. Okay. So if that is the case, my question for us to discuss is, do these manufacturers have the order of their production slash shipping destinations wrong?
    52:18
    I think, well, I think something. I think we should discuss that for our members. If you're an official club member of the Pinball Show, you can go listen to that now for further analysis on this story and a deeper dive into this question. go to patreon.com slash the pinball show and sign up today. And thanks for the continued support. Happy Thanksgiving.
    52:42
    The Screaming Goat Club. Dennis, it's time to thank these turkeys that are the closest to us. These are the VIP turkeys. I want to thank personally sweet, sweet, succulent Rodney. He's our bobcat. Now, if Rodney or the Bobcat, a.k.a. the Popcat, if they were a Thanksgiving feast, or we did this already, didn't we? Yeah, we made them dishes. Yeah, we did make them dishes. Of course, you can't think of anything different. I can't think of anything different. All right, so I'll put a twist on it for you. Okay. Which family member would he be for the extended get-together? Yes. I'm going to shoot that fucker. Yeah. I think he's got to be the southern uncle.
    53:36
    Okay. Not because of the Rodney Rodney that we know, but because of the character Bobcat. Yes, because Bobcat. Now, I don't know if Bobcats are native to the southern parts of the United States, but the willingness to shoot one even whilst it is on one's wife feels very southern to me. Oh, shoot that fucker. Attack my wife. I think it is Southern Uncle. What does Southern Uncle drink? I think he drinks cheap beer. Good. Old English or something. Good. Maybe a bourbon. A more refined Southern Uncle. What about a wild turkey? Wild turkey? Like a whiskey? To go with the turkey? Wild turkey? Okay. So he's the questionable Southern Uncle that says some things that make you go, oof, you look around. Oof, who's that going to offend? Okay. I want to thank Steve. What about Steve? We've got to thank Steve and the Bumblebee. Bumblebee! Oh, I think Steve is the city slicker. You do? I think so. I think he comes in from his big city living. He drives like an Audi, which to him is just a classy, nice car, but he doesn't think too much of it. It's just a high-quality German-engineered car. But, boy, when he rolls up to the family festivities, people are like, oh, there's pretentious-ass big city Steve. that's who I think he's got a little Autobot sticker on the back of that Mercedes he doesn't think too much of it but he has to know that his presence may be interpreted a bit differently at the family table that's all the poor guy didn't do anything I don't know if I'm maybe projecting here alright thank you Rob for the continued support of the pinball show as a Screaming Goat Club member you are our panther yes this one this was tricky this one's trickier it's probably the really silent brother yeah kind of very very masculine but yes but he's got the best mustache of everyone there absolutely not overdone though he's not super machismo but you know that uh he means some business that guy's good okay i like that is he say he's the brother yeah i mean it depends which family members perspective we're thinking of i don't know if he's the brother-in-law or if he's actually the brother no i maybe maybe the brother-in-law but i felt more the brother frank seemed more like the brother-in-law oh poor falcon swooping in there oh never never not really part of the family but hey it's frank it's one of those like hey fucking frank's here frank okay frank thank you for the continued support the falcon i'm trying to still i need some more with the brother-in-law frank well this is that you know he's he's probably maybe tries a little too hard at thanksgiving to fit in that's what i mean you know because it's kind of like he's got this energy and you know this is this is a family that doesn't have that level of energy so frank wants to fit in but he just so he's he just tries a little too hard little stuff yeah yeah yeah i mean this is like whoa yeah would you show me how to work the tractor later i see he he brings up the Tyson Logan fight and stuff. He wants to be. Yes, yes. He's like, whoa, it was way closer than I thought it'd be. Frank, come on. No one thought it was going to be close. We got to thank Dave, too. He's our resident shaker motor. He's been here from day one. We love you. We love you, Dave.
    57:04
    Yeah, he's probably the caterer. The caterer. Yes. This isn't a family that makes their Thanksgiving. They brought it in. Poor Dave. He always gets his balls busted. Every time we get animal-based nicknames and he gets the fucking object. That's why she kept her making him a machine. It's every example. Every example is lame. It's just how it is. Wasn't he last year? I think he was the canned yams or something. That or the cranberry sauce. I don't remember. I think he was the cranberry sauce.
    57:41
    Dave. Okay, so Dave's the caterer. He's the guy who has to work Thanksgiving. Does he have a trimmer too?
    57:48
    Carry the bowl of mashed potatoes with the trimmer? Oh, shit. I'm going to whip him with my tiny hand.
    57:56
    Dave has a tiny hand too, so it fits. Take my strong hand. I made them by hand. Oh, man. Joe, thank you for the... Poor picture of Dave now with the little hand. Joe, thanks for the continued support. Fox? I think Joe's like the uncle everybody wants to hang out with, that always likes watching football with, drinking a couple beers with. Yeah, see, he doesn't even want to be at the kitchen table, though. He wants to have, because the game's on. Yeah. It's like, why aren't we having Thanksgiving in the living room? Yep.
    58:29
    Joe's always cool regardless. He doesn't even have to have the most popular clothes or anything. It's just Joe. Joe's cool. Everybody wants to hang out with Joe. Yeah, that's definitely. He's that uncle. What about Charlie the bell? Charlie might be the cousin that tries to get everyone to go outside and play football. Oh, yeah, the smoker.
    58:53
    Charlie the smoker? It's just like, we've got to work off those candy hands. We're going to play the touch football game in the front yard, which, of course, after two minutes, descends into full-on, unpadded tackle football. and all that family melodrama is played out in blood oh yeah one of the blood and dirt and cry that's how he got to be known as the bell because that's you know i was someone's bell got rung during that during that friendly game i still like that he's smoking cigs out there yeah he's got his pack of marlboro i like that he's like he's maybe one of the cousins that's older than all the other cousins so he's sporting like a wispy mustache yes but they still make him sit at the kids table because there's no space at the big table he's like i'm 28 he's like it doesn't matter you're at the table for life like you're julie's fucking bastard kid let's not lie you're still a kid like we don't want your ass up here oh and he smokes menthols he has to oh menthols okay all right and none other than i think the dude william thank you for the continued support i think william is the patriarch of the family i think maybe he's not the grandpa because William's not old as a person, but the dude, he's wise.
    60:13
    I think he's the patriarch of the family. How was your meeting, Mr. Zabowski? Okay. Your old man told me to take any rug in the house. He's the one that carved the turkey is what I'm saying. Yeah, okay, yeah. Somebody's got to carve the turkey. He's the one in the what? Rockwell painting. Yes the cardigan sweater Yeah he the one that you can He has nostalgic smells to him Not an old spice not a brute but something a little bit still dated but still brings back an okay memory Maybe a little bit too much hair product, but, you know, he still carves a mean turkey. We still respect him. He's just, I don't know, he's the dude. I was wanting to know, like, who the drama queen bitch aunt was. well we don't have a club member for that yet but you could be if you sign up to patreon.com you can be the bitch ant patreon.com slash the pinball show thank you all for the continued support over on discord if you are a member you get to private-ish discord chat we've been discussing they've been talking about stern remaster titles and what could get remastered they talked about old bobby mueller getting indicted there's been some fun discussion over there. Come check that out. We are doing the Happy Hour Hangout for the month of November here coming up this Wednesday, the 20th. Yes. 20th, yes. 8 p.m. Central. I got some new bourbon so I'll be drinking that. Maybe I'll be sitting in the hot tub. The post is already live for those that are Nordman level or above over at Patreon.com. That sounds like fun. And now on to... I was just going to jump right into it. I guess I could.
    61:58
    And now onto pinball. Oh, that wasn't good. That's what everyone says about the second one. Oh, second one. That's very fitting. I couldn't get the cadence here. I have to roll into it with some amount of. I've got to jog into it. You've practiced so much, though. I am like a pole vaulter. Or what are those, the long stick? Is that the pole vault? I need a nice running start to land the dismount is what I'm trying to say. They don't land the dismount. They just go over the bar and then flop. Well, I'm thinking of the horse now, the pommel horse. Speaking of flops, it's time for the third favorite segment of the show. Is it trending down? I don't know. I think it's trending even.
    62:41
    What a segment. It's none other than Pinball Market Trends! I like your style, dude. Cash grab. That's trending up. Look at his cash grab.
    62:58
    Nice job, Bruce. You made the pinball market. That's his most famous call out now. Let's see if he overuses it. He might overdo it. The only thing to be overdone that still holds true is pinball market trends. Turning up this week, you guys, we've been waiting for this. I anticipated and analyzed this to happen not only because of the seasonal changes as we roll into the holiday season, but even maybe the perception of changing U.S. governmental... No, we're not talking politics on here, but we are talking market. And up this week trending very much so is the market. Numbers don't lie. I only report the facts. I'm not taking any stance here, there, or anywhere. But as we roll into the holiday season, Dennis, each and every year, this is when it starts getting hot. Because over the summer when it was physically hot, people were outside, they weren't buying pinball machines as much, and everybody was saying, sky's falling, Chicken Little don't want nothing to do with no physical pinball machines. Well, now Chicken Little is wearing his little precious scarf. And he knows that he's going to be bunkered down, not only in the Midwest and the North, but in parts of the South as well. Everybody wants pinball for the holiday season, for Christmas, and even selfishly to justify getting themselves something nice. You see it with the releases. Look at Stern Pinball. They're hitting us up with all kinds of new stuff. And sales are reflecting that. Distribution companies have been very, very busy already here in November, shaping up to be maybe the busiest month of the entire year. And looking back, you know what the second hottest month was this year? October. Again, I'm only speaking for myself sales-wise, but not only new games, pre-owned games. The market is hot right now.
    64:41
    What's weird is people are buying new games quite a bit. The secondary market is hot as well, but you see prices that are amongst the lowest that they've been in years on some of these titles. I do worry, if I'm projecting out, as this is a market analysis segment, I do worry whenever you do have hot new in-box products that are selling very well, and the discrepancy between the sales of those price-wise and the secondary prices of a product, that distance or that separation growing, that typically is not a great sign for future new and box sales but we're going to ride this train as long as we can right now but new and box sales are high right now and people are buying the shit out of used games but they're not paying as much as they did six months ago not nearly as much as they did a year ago and so forth and i said that even politically because even though there's a shifting change in the U.S. government, or will be in the future, based on the recent election, just the perception alone, I would argue, has driven the market a hair even over the last two weeks. Am I crazy, Dennis? I mean, I have no idea. And while there is no truth to justify it, in my opinion, just the perception alone has – it's like when my in-laws come in. I've got to give them a hard time. My in-laws came in and they were like, hey, are you thankful that Trump is our next president? Because I really worried about your company if he wasn't going to be. I was like, what? What's that? We've done okay. This company has done okay the last four years. Like, have you seen a big boom yet? I'm like, why would I see a big – he's not even our president. President, yeah, like what? Just the perception alone sometimes. All's turning up this week. Let's talk about the hot games right now, the big sellers. There are three hot sellers right now. Any guesses as to what they are, Dennis?
    66:44
    Metallica, X-Men, and Jaws. Ooh, Godzilla. Yep, Jaws is still selling well, but the three that cannot be stopped right now are Metallica, Uncanny X-Men, and Godzilla. And when I say Godzilla, I'm meaning all Godzillas, but primarily the 70th and the Color Premium. Taking an uptick on the Godzilla 70th. Those are the three hot games. I would say number four, probably, Jaws. But right now, training up are those three hotness games. Uncanny X-Men Pros, especially. I think there could be a situation for myself that we end up selling maybe more pro Uncanny X-Mens than we do premiums. And I will attribute this recent, as we were talking about adjustments that need to be made and stuff, that discussion, we have seen a bigger boom in pro sales because of that. That is true. Even though the shooter launch thing affects the pro just as much as it does the free wire.
    67:43
    Also trending up this week is the use of a CPAP machine. Oh, Dennis, I have to use a CPAP now. Oh, and nothing says trending up like the feeling when you're sleeping of someone putting their hand over your nose and mouth. Because, boy, who doesn't love that feeling? Oh, have you ever done the CPAP? No. Horrible. Just horrible. It is the worst feeling ever. It's almost like, have you ever heard the old myth that you can't own a cat when you have a baby because it ends up taking its breath and stuff? Have you seen that? Okay. You've never heard of that? No, I think it's a certain regional myth. Okay. Yeah. That's what the CPAP feels like. It's like one of those Death Eaters in Harry Potter. It sucks your soul out. When I'm trying to exhale, it's like, I can't breathe. I can't breathe, Nicole. She says, well, but you don't snore, so it's so much more pleasant for me. But it's horrible. You're breathing against something blowing at you, too. And if you try to breathe through your mouth, it creates like a siphon. Oh, I loathe it. I love it. But training up, I guess, is better health.
    69:01
    We'll give it another week or so, but I don't know how long it will last. Training down this week is Stern Pinball Sam titles. Oh, it is. The fear is real. I mean, it's Star Trek. It's ACDC. It's Tron Legacy. Iron Man. Pirates of the Caribbean. And Spider-Man. I'm sorry, owners of those. I'm not sorry because you have great games. You have great machines. Having said that, that Tron and that Iron Man just are not going to hold the value. See Bally Williams' original title value whenever the remakes came out. Poor Medieval Madness dropped Cactus Canyon, plummeted. I fear that we're going to see the same, just again, perception. Just the perception alone that it could happen that they redo ACDC or Iron Man or Pirates or Spy. Just the perception that it could happen will already, by default, decrease the value of your game $300 to $700. How about that? That's big. And it's true. And I've got Sam games. I'm in trouble. No, because you don't really move your games much. You don't have to worry about it. And you enjoy them. Who cares? I'm in hypothetical trouble. Oh, no. Also trending down this week, apparently men's boxing. I stayed up, Dennis. Oh, I didn't watch this. I'm the idiot. The marketing is trending up because... I've seen so many angry people falling for this WWE drawn-out nonsense. I don't watch boxing. I find it grotesque to some degree. Same with MMA. Like, it gives me the tangles where it shouldn't. I don't like it. It just makes me feel gross. Having said that, this marketing worked. and the nostalgia of what Mike Tyson as a figure is in the zeitgeist of my childhood,
    70:49
    I was hook, line, and sinker. And of always the little blonde douchebag you always want to see get his ass kicked. So it's like this David and Goliath kind of thing, only you're rooting for, I guess, Goliath.
    71:02
    Follow me here. Men's boxing is down because I stayed up, shame on me, for that piece of shit boxing match. Not only that one, but all the men's boxing throughout that Siamese cast that was glitchy the last two hours where I felt like I was on AOL back in the late 90s. I've seen a lot of complaints about that. Netflix really dropped the ball on being able to stream it. Is it over 120 million concurrent viewers? My favorite, I think it was on Reddit, I saw someone show an image of a screenshot It was a shot from the Paul Tyson fight, and it was a shot from Nintendo Mike Tyson punch-out. Perfect. That's perfect. It's a graph from the old NES game. But, man, they've got to fix that. But I say that it's trending down because I've seen, prior to that big Mike Tyson title bout, I've seen, in my experience of watching boxing, which is very minimal, I've seen the greatest fight I've ever seen in my life and it came from two women Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano right now if you haven't seen this or anything you're thinking to yourself who gives a shit if you watch this and you at least accepted the sport of boxing holy shit I've never seen two human beings beat the ever loving shit out of one another than this was everything I was getting squeamish, and I was just like, holy crap, are they going to be able to sustain? Her eyes split open. She's wobbling. How is this going to? Is that a headbutt? It was phenomenal, so much so that it made that Mike Tyson fight substantially worse. These two women, I would watch boxing if it was that, but I still would not feel good about it because that's some scary stuff right there. That's some scary stuff. I didn't think women's boxing. I was one of those people that's like, yeah, women, you know, watching them, you know, do some sports. I'm like, eh. I didn't know they were like this. Completely would be terrified by these warriors. Holy shit. You've got to watch it, didn't you? You've got to watch it. It's nuts. And before we go, I've got to give you a little bit of razzle-dazzle, a little deal of the week. Buy, buy, buy! You want to save some money, people? I thought I was clever marketing-wise, and I've got this arcade edition of this Jurassic Park. The big Raw Thrills thing is like $16,000. So they made a home edition. It's a little bit smaller. It actually fit in people's homes. And I've been trying to sell it. It hadn't been selling well because I'm primarily a pinball crowd. So I comboed it. I bundled it up with a Data East Jurassic Park pinball machine that we got in on trade. And I said, here's your Jurassic Duo. And I was trying to package deal it and sell them both.
    73:52
    And somebody was like, hey, Zach, I don't want the arcade. Can I just buy the daddy? So I'm like, fuck, all right, yeah, you can. Which leaves me still with this home arcade Jurassic Park. And it's freaking awesome, but I want to replace it in our showroom with a different arcade. So I'm going to give one hell of a deal of the week. These things were going for over $10,000. One of the coolest statement pieces that you can have in your game collection. If you own all kinds of pinball machines, why not have one of the cool arcade games of Jurassic Park that you all love at these FECs, but one that can actually fit. It's the same game, but it can fit into your home. I marked it. Right now it's marked down all the way from like $11,000 to $7,500. I'm going to knock another $500 off for the holiday savings season. $69.99. Come get your son. Zach at FlippinUpPetLaw.com. And as always, I'm just here to report the facts. The holiday cheer, because numbers don't lie and neither will I. I'm Pinball Market Trance.
    74:54
    Dennis, where can people catch you? They can always email eclecticgamerspodcast at gmail.com. Oh, that's nice of them. It is. They can email us at thepinballshow at gmail.com as well. Follow, like, and subscribe to Facebook, YouTube. Become a member, patreon.com slash thepinballshow. Oh, I did want to tell people this. I think in our next show, we are going to, or between maybe now and then, who knows, we're going to do a holiday giveaway. Oh. Yeah. Why? I don't know. Every month or every year we do this. Every month. Or we're giving away tommers. Or we're giving away cool shit. I think we should do it again. So, people, all you need to do is make sure that you're following. Maybe that's a requisite. You never know. Maybe it's not. But make sure you're following us on Facebook and Insti and all that stuff. YouTube. Flipping out all of that. Straight down the middle of video series I do. Maybe you need to follow them like that, too. And we never want to forget that. Oh, yeah, straight down the middle. I don't want to say how soon, but very soon You'll be seeing the work that we've been doing For the last couple of months And then the sponsor of this show Is proudly Flippin' Out Pinball When I buy my pinball I buy from Flippin' Out From Toppers or Playsterios I've got it figured out Flippin' Out When I pick up pinball I pick Flippin' Out When I buy, buy, buy I buy from Flippin' Out Product showcase this week is none other than the hottest game of this holiday season. It's Metallica Remastered Premium Edition. Get one because at Flippin' Out Pinball, we have, I think we have like six left in this run, I think. And then not until 2025.
    76:44
    So get one now. The Beatles Gold, we still have some pre-order spots if you want one of those. Black Knight Pro, we're getting a couple of those in. Get one pre-ordered now. What about the spooky pinball next game? It's got to be coming out soon, right? Maybe it's back to the future.
    77:01
    It's not. They used to do contract manufacturing. Yeah, maybe. So if you want that next game, possibly get on our interested list. Godzilla's 70th Anniversary Accessories. I got them in stock. And you can have them shipped today. Avatar LA. You wants it, you gots it. We got them ready to go. Uncanny X-Men. I still have LEs. Premiums. Pros. Godzilla 70th. They're gone. I've got, I think, four of those. Three of those. Something like that. Next Stern pinball game. Next JJP pinball machine. Get on our interested list today. Pulp Fictions. Cactus Canyons. John Wick's. Lights Out. Foo Fighters. Jaws. Stranger Things. Venom. Avengers. Deadpool. I did see Deadpool and Wolverine, Dennis. I did watch that. And I will say, I was a fan of the first two. Not like this huge fan. I'm not like this huge Deadpool. Oh, he's my favorite. Never been that way and thought the first two were just B pluses. They're fine. They're good. I will say the third one, my favorite one by far. It was good. It was hilarious in parts. It was well done. Thoroughly enjoyed that. Great popcorn movie. A little grotesque of being popcorn, but I loved it. We sell everything. Just come to FlippinOutPinball.com. Oh, and you can email, instead of just emailing Zach at FlippinOutPinball.com, here to announce, you can also email Greg, G-R-E-G, at FlippinOutPinball.com. That's Greg Bone. Why would they do that? Well, he's doing sales now, too. Oh. Yeah. He's always done our tech, so if you have anything that you got from us with any issue, email him. But now, he's also doing some sales. We'll have a more formal announcement to his full-time joining of our group, but you can email him, too. Flipping out with friends. Joel. I don't have Joel on payroll yet.
    78:54
    Hey, Joel, on the job? Joel's a graphic designer, I believe. I think so. He designed my watches with Dennis' logo, actually. Yeah, he's in management now, I think. Oh, he's the boss, man. I think he is streaming the one and only Metallica LE this week. Everyone wants him to stream Space Hunt. Well, we got to reach out to the French. See if they want a Wii Wii 1 over here. We do not like you making fun of us, Zach. Why would we do this? We don't need your US dollars. You don't even want to ship us the first machines. I'm flipping out with friends this Wednesday. Maybe some surprises there, too. Check it out for Metallica Remastered LE with UV.
    79:38
    All right, Dennis, teach these people something. Well, if you're thinking about getting games for Christmas and you're seeing the prices. If this is a fucking coin taker ad, I'm going to shit. No, it's not a coin taker ad. Thank you. Sorry. I was just going to say, don't sell your spleen to get into the dream. Just wait for a sale like Pinnow Ween.
    79:56
    I didn't know where that was going, but it took a nice little in there. Pinnow Ween. And always practice safe pinball. and in the wise words of Metallica Remastered, Yeah, I'm thinking the Metabol Shield's back. It's terrible. Happy Thanksgiving. Sometimes I think it's a sin When I feel like I'm winning When I'm losing again
    80:34
    We'll see you next time.