claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.040
Twippies analysis, machine pricing debates, and Deep Root production uncertainty.
Thunderbirds will debut as the third-worst rated game on Pinside, ranking 359th overall
high confidence · Ron Hallett stating it will debut between Hyperball (357) and Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball (358), confirmed by multiple speakers
Beatles LE has not sold out; some distributors have 3-4 units still in stock
medium confidence · Ron Hallett: 'They only made half of them, and my guy has three or four still sitting there'
Primus remaster is still available and has not sold out
medium confidence · Discussion about Primus availability following Beatles sales discussion
Deep Root Pinball has delayed their machine reveal by approximately nine months
medium confidence · Ron Hallett: 'Who knows when they're going to reveal them since they delayed now for, you know, it could be almost nine months from now'
Iron Maiden LE's auto-launcher frequently misfires; requires ongoing tweaking after 9 months of ownership
medium confidence · Martin R.: 'I'm still playing with mine, and I've had mine for almost nine months. I still, once in a while, have to go in there and tweak again'
Deadpool's right orbit ramp is inconsistent across multiple machines tested
medium confidence · Ron Hallett: 'I've been on four of them, four different machines, and you make that right orbit, and you're like, what's going to happen?'
Stock market decline (down 16% overall, NASDAQ down 20%) will reduce discretionary pinball spending
medium confidence · Martin R. prediction: 'Right now the stock market's down almost 16%, and the NASDAQ's down 20%, and people are going to start thinking about not having so much excess money'
Stern's production facility was nearly idle in 2009 during financial crisis, creating bankruptcy risk
high confidence · Ron and Martin both confirm attendance at Stern tour in 2009 where production floor was empty with no workers
“So Thunderbirds, well, you guys can guess if you want where it's going to be... it's going to debut between Hyperball, which is 357 and Bugs Bunny birthday ball at 358. That's the rating that it currently has. So when it gets updated, by the time this airs, it'll be rated as the third worst game of all time according to Pinside.”
Ron Hallett @ ~18:00 — Major community signal about Thunderbirds' Pinside ranking controversy and sentiment
“And you know what? It's interesting because if you looked at the feature list and you looked at the bill of materials, you would say, you know, it's no more, no less than my Star Trek, which cost, you know, $10,500 versus $13,000 four years ago... But if you then sort of the X factor, which is the playability of the game and what goes into designing a really fun game with great rules, great art, great sounds. Absolutely, it was worth the money.”
Martin R. @ ~35:00 — Articulates value proposition debate for high-priced LEs; compares Iron Maiden LE to Star Trek LE
“Right now the stock market's down almost 16%, and the NASDAQ's down 20%, and people are going to start thinking about not having so much excess money. And what do you think the first thing's going to happen? Pinball is going to get cut back on a lot of these people.”
Martin R. @ ~53:00 — Economic forecasting for pinball market; suggests pricing pressure ahead
“If they undercut, then they're really going to throw the market into a little tizzy. How much is going to be undercut? How low does it have to be to be an effective undercut, in your opinion? I'm saying $4,100, $4,200. If they can undercut them by $1,000, oh, boy.”
Ron Hallett @ ~70:00 — Speculation about Deep Root Pinball's competitive pricing strategy
“They have to actually say, look, this is what you're getting for your value, and, look, we put more stuff into it to entice the person to pay maybe $6,000, $7,000, $8,000. or, B, say, hey, if you want the same machine, you know, a different, like, say, the newest model coming out, not Munsters, but, you know, further down the road, hey, this is the newest one out.”
Martin R. @ ~65:00 — Analysis of Stern's pricing flexibility options if market demand softens
sentiment_shift: Pinside's Thunderbirds rating (359th, third-worst all-time) heavily influenced by non-player voters responding to designer personality and perceived value proposition rather than actual gameplay experience. Similar pattern with Supreme (contract manufacturing backlash) despite positive owner reviews and near-50% tournament win rate.
high · Ron, Martin, and Ryan all note most Twippies voters haven't played the games; Martin states 'not many of those people who voted were actually basing it on gameplay that they'd actually played'
market_signal: Beatles LE and Primus remaster showing poor sell-through with distributor inventory still available months post-release, coinciding with stock market decline (NASDAQ -20%, S&P -16%). Suggests price ceiling reached or demand erosion beginning.
medium · Ron: 'They only made half of them, and my guy has three or four still sitting there'; Martin predicts 'Pinball is going to get cut back on a lot of these people' due to market correction
product_concern: Iron Maiden LE auto-launcher consistently misfires across machines; owner (Martin R.) still tweaking after 9 months. Deadpool right orbit ramp clunks/misfeeds unpredictably across 4+ different machines tested. Both issues affect high-priced LEs and impact competitive/casual play satisfaction.
high · Martin: 'I still, once in a while, have to go in there and tweak again'; Ron: 'I've been on four of them, four different machines, and you make that right orbit, and you're like, what's going to happen?'
design_innovation: Discussion reveals tension between artist approach (Dirty Donnie/Zombie Yeti's dense, saturated artwork creates illusion of more playfield content vs. Christopher Franchi's spaced, cleaner aesthetic). Directly affects perceived value/feature density in games like Iron Maiden vs. Beatles/Batman.
groq_whisper · $0.409
“When you have distributor shifts, you're splitting and you're increasing costs. And it seems like his model is he wants to keep the costs down.”
Martin R. @ ~82:00 — Commentary on Deep Root's direct-sales business model vs. distributor networks
“I think Iron Maiden is literally cannot lose it if it loses it then it's rigged. I mean I think second would be Pirates of the Caribbean but it's just I think people got a bit tired of waiting for a year and that's that's let up a bit of the shine off the pinball machine”
Ryan C. @ ~105:00 — Prediction on Twippies Game of the Year winner; indicates delay impact on Pirates hype
“The problem with Deadpool is that that ramp shot can be unfair, I think is probably the word. When you can absolutely nail that shot and it clunks, you're like, well, I'm going to get rewarded for not hitting that shot cleanly?”
Ron Hallett @ ~125:00 — Articulates gameplay concern about Deadpool's ramp mechanic inconsistency
“I know. I don't mind the ramp shot. I hate the right orbit. The right orbit is the clunkiest shot in that game. What, when it accidentally ends up in the shooter lane? Yeah, and a shooter laner just hangs up and just stops and comes rolling back down. I've been on four of them, four different machines, and you make that right orbit, and you're like, what's going to happen?”
Ron Hallett @ ~128:00 — Documents specific mechanical issue affecting Deadpool across multiple units
“It's like one of those carnival-like things where you want to get the thing to just stop. You should get bonus points for that. That was the old ramp money. It's now been replaced.”
Bruce Nightingale @ ~145:00 — Humorous observation about Thunderbirds ramp stopping mechanics; implies design oddity
medium · Ron: 'Because Iron Maiden as well, like Iron Maiden Pro, what does that have over Deadpool? Actually, there's less. Yeah, probably. But the thing I have a problem with is... artwork is so packed that it creates the illusion'
business_signal: Stern cannot reduce production volume due to large facility footprint; 2009 near-bankruptcy during idle production period makes current oversupply risk existential. If demand softens due to market correction, Stern must either lower pricing or offer new product tiers (Pro/ProLite variants) to maintain throughput.
high · Martin: 'They cannot make less pins... they have too much square footage now for it to be idle. When they were idle last time, it almost bankrupted them'; Ron confirms Stern production floor was empty in 2009
machine_intel: Deep Root Pinball's second original-theme game tentatively identified as 'Dragon Fist' by Ryan C., though presented as speculative joke. Suggests Deep Root may pursue original themes beyond licensed IP.
low · Ryan C. joke: 'Maybe his second game, which is apparently a Chinese original theme, maybe that'll be Dragon Fist. Maybe he's making bootleg Dragon Fist in China'
product_strategy: Hosts speculate Deep Root Pinball will undercut Stern's pricing by $1,000+ ($4,100-$4,200 entry point vs. $5,500+ Stern Pro). Expected to disrupt market if executed via direct sales model; distributor network viability in non-US markets unclear.
medium · Ron: 'I'm saying $4,100, $4,200. If they can undercut them by $1,000, oh, boy'; Martin: 'he wants to keep the costs down'
announcement: Deep Root Pinball's machine reveal delayed by approximately 9 months from original timeline. No visibility into production pipeline, distributor strategy, or release volume.
medium · Ron: 'Who knows when they're going to reveal them since they delayed now for, you know, it could be almost nine months from now'
competitive_signal: Iron Maiden LE predicted as near-certain Twippies Game of the Year winner despite mechanical issues; Pirates of the Caribbean second due to delayed release impacting sustained hype; Deadpool contending based on market saturation.
medium · Ryan C.: 'I think Iron Maiden is literally cannot lose it if it loses it then it's rigged'; Ron: 'Don't underestimate Deadpool, mainly because it's in more hands of people than Pirates is'
design_philosophy: George Gomez's design philosophy (confirmed via podcast listening) prioritizes long feedback loops on ramp shots to give players extended decision windows. However, slow rollback on ramp misses creates frustration for players seeking immediate rejection clarity (cited by Ron as OCD-triggering). Suggests designer intent may not align with player experience expectations.
medium · Ron: 'I never thought of it that way I just think of it like I want to give people a long time to think about what they're doing before the ball gets to the flipper'; George's stated philosophy differs from Ron's preference
sentiment_shift: Mike (Thunderbirds designer) accumulates negative community sentiment due to past statements dismissing US market and polarizing public persona. Community votes against machine despite acceptable/decent gameplay, preferring to support competitors with 'nice guy' reputations (Charlie Emery/Spooky). Personality now primary factor in machine success perception.
medium · Martin: 'people are actually kind of rooting for him to fail because of what's come out of his mouth in the last couple of years... he's sort of saying, you know, if I could take me or leave me, just judge me on my game. And then when you look at the game, you realise it's not great either'
industry_signal: Pinside voters (Twippies participants) and Tilt Forums tournament players represent distinct communities with differing priorities. Pinside emphasizes worst/best game discourse and general collecting sentiment; Tilt Forums emphasizes competitive play and machine quality/setup. Limited overlap in voting demographics.
medium · Ryan C.: 'you don't go on Tilt Forums, you don't see a topic like, hey, what's the worst thing you've ever played?... those people don't care for [Twippies discussions]'