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deeproot: Pride Before the Fall.

Cary Hardy·video·20m 14s·analyzed·May 20, 2021
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.022

TL;DR

Deep Root Pinball collapse driven by Robert Mueller's pride, poor engineering, and pinbar implementation failures.

Summary

Cary Hardy examines Deep Root Pinball's chronic delays and declining prospects through a recent customer update from Robert Mueller and interviews with an anonymous former employee. Key issues identified are Robert Mueller's excessive pride and micromanagement, inexperienced engineering staff, the problematic pinbar implementation, and inconsistent employee pay. Hardy concludes the company is unlikely to fulfill Raza orders and advises customers to request refunds.

Key Claims

  • 99% of Deep Root's problems are due to Robert Mueller, not J-POP; J-POP has minimal involvement in factory operations

    medium confidence · Anonymous former employee account relayed by Hardy

  • Deep Root employees experienced inconsistent and delayed paychecks, with multiple weeks of unpaid work

    medium confidence · Anonymous former employee statement

  • The pinbar implementation is the primary cause of Raza delays and is killing the company's production timeline

    medium confidence · Anonymous former employee quoted by Hardy: 'the fucking pin bar... is what's killing this company'

  • Deep Root hired mostly inexperienced, recently graduated engineers, with one knowledgeable engineer leaving due to non-payment

    medium confidence · Anonymous former employee account

  • Robert Mueller has told engineers he could do their work himself but lacks the time

    low confidence · Anonymous former employee quote relayed by Hardy

  • Raza could have been produced as a conventional pinball machine without the pinbar implementation

    medium confidence · Anonymous former employee assessment

  • Deep Root's UL certification would have required a system rebuild even if obtained previously, due to poor manufacturability

    low confidence · Anonymous former employee statement about engineer assessment

  • Multiple whitewoods in development exist only to give designers tasks while waiting for engineering resources on Raza

    low confidence · Anonymous former employee observation

  • Robert Mueller is unlikely to accept personal responsibility when the company fails

    low confidence · Hardy's interpretation of Mueller's demonstrated pride and communication style

  • Deep Root employees remain despite company dysfunction because salaries are competitive when paid

Notable Quotes

  • “I don't like talking about deep root i don't i i really wish they would just you know almost just throw in the towel and be done with it”

    Cary Hardy@ 0:20 — Establishes Hardy's frustration and emotional stake in the company's failure

  • “please request a refund. That's what this screams out.”

    Cary Hardy@ 3:58 — Hardy's interpretation of Mueller's message to customers

  • “the fucking pin bar... is what's killing this company when it comes to getting games made and out to the public”

    Anonymous former employee@ 12:28 — Core technical/design issue identified as primary blocker

  • “it's pride before the fall, guys”

    Cary Hardy@ 13:52 — Hardy's characterization of Mueller's leadership failing

  • “he himself could do what they're doing, but he doesn't have the time”

    Anonymous former employee (paraphrased by Hardy)@ 14:26 — Evidence of Mueller's dismissive attitude toward engineering staff

  • “that's where my logic is kind of going out the window is where I'm thinking about those of you out there that are hopeful that this company you know fulfills your wishes but knowing that the chances of that actually happening are slim to none”

    Cary Hardy@ 18:13 — Hardy's emotional shift when considering customer victims

  • “i don't want to think about deep root no there is no time in my day where i I go, you know what? I wonder what they're doing”

Entities

Cary HardypersonRobert MuellerpersonDeep Root PinballcompanyRazagameJ-POPpersonSteve BowenpersonHaggis Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Deep Root's core business model failing; inability to deliver flagship product after years of promises

    high · Anonymous employee account of engineering staffing, pay issues, and fundamental design problems; Mueller's vague update language

  • ?

    community_signal: J-POP wrongly blamed by community for Deep Root failures; employee claims Mueller personally responsible for 99% of issues

    medium · Anonymous former employee: 'J-pop has little to no say about anything... 99 percent of the problems are due to robert'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community fatigue and skepticism about Deep Root; Hardy criticizes customer emotional investment preventing logical exit decision

    high · Hardy's repeated video titles containing 'delayed'; his exhaustion discussing company; criticism of customers' emotional blindness to red flags

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Pinbar implementation is causing production delays and manufacturability issues; conventional design could have been completed

    medium · Anonymous employee: 'the fucking pin bar... is what's killing this company'; could have made conventional Raza like Houston prototype

  • $

    market_signal: 'Pride before the fall' framing of Deep Root collapse; Mueller's personal failings as root cause rather than external factors

    medium · Hardy's repeated emphasis on Mueller's pride; employee account of excessive vision/control; comparison to transparent competitors

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.061

0:00
all right so um i'm still low on energy guys uh but i said i wasn't gonna try to do this video today and so i'm going to and it's one of those things where i don't like talking about deep root i don't i i really wish they would just you know almost just throw in the towel and be done with it just go ahead and call it quits be done give up or better yet fulfill your orders but from one information that we've already gotten and from what information that i have just recently received i don't see that being possible it's funny that i've got a hard drive that is dedicated to all my youtube content and videos and stuff like that and as i'm going through there it's all in alphabetical order and all my deep root videos i had like i don't know like four or five now and they all had the words delayed in the title and it's just like yeah because that's all that they have been doing is delaying delaying so let me first start out by reading the latest update that robert sent out to all the raza customers it reads dear raza customer first i want to wish the amazing mr bowden a very happy birthday. I'm honored that he has decided to spend the occasion at work writing up more cool tips for his funwithbonus.com website. It was nice to catch up with him this morning about Raza. While it has been six weeks since our last update, we wish there was more to update on. We are dealing with the same issues most other small and large businesses are, that is, still struggling with some vendors over supply chain and deliveries unable to hire staff because of labor shortages and dealing with inflationary increases in parts since we have not been able to execute quick enough we come in every day and are chipping away at the diminishing obstacles to shipping our first razas we want to keep communication open however it seems sometimes that these periodic updates don't convey the progress that is happening, nor does it solve the real goal of delivering games. At this point, we do not expect to send another mass update about Raza until after the July 4th weekend. In the meantime, if some Raza customers wish to rescind their contracts and request their payments back, we will offer those on a first-come, first-served basis starting June 1st, 2021. You can reply to this email or use our online contact form on our website. Please include your name, order number, and a request to rescind the Raza purchase contract. Once accepted, your request is irrevocable. For those waiting on the wait list, please again do not contact us to check on if you have a machine or not. We will do our best to fill as many requests as we can from the rescinded machines in order on the waitlist at the end of the Raza run. Since the list has grown from the last mass email, we cannot guarantee to be able to accommodate everyone. Best, Robert J. Mueller, Principal, Deep Root Pinball. So, take that as you will, guys, but I read this as, please request a refund.

medium confidence · Anonymous former employee statement

Cary Hardy@ 6:35 — Shows Hardy's avoidance of company due to burnout

  • “They could easily make Raza like what you played in Houston. Turn it into a regular pinball machine, probably make a few adjustments, but they could have easily produced what you had in Houston without a doubt.”

    Anonymous former employee@ 13:03 — Indicates viable simpler path not taken due to Mueller's vision

    • Nordman
    person
    Owslerperson
    Houstonevent
    Pinsideorganization
    FunWithBonus.comwebsite
    $

    market_signal: Customer base deteriorating as refund option provided; expectation of further delays after July 4th weekend

    high · Mueller offering refunds starting June 1; Hardy's prediction of another delay announcement post-July 4

  • ?

    community_signal: Robert Mueller's excessive pride and micromanagement driving design iteration; vision overcomplexity on first game

    medium · Anonymous employee: Mueller 'comes in and has all these visions' and is 'trying to recreate the wheel'; told engineers he could do their work

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Key engineering and design staff departing due to non-payment and lack of progress; remaining staff underskilled

    medium · Anonymous former employee account: experienced engineer left due to non-payment; Nordman and Owsler departing/stalled; mostly junior engineers remain

  • ?

    product_strategy: Raza facing indefinite delays; customer update suggests refund option signals imminent project failure

    high · Mueller's June 2021 update offering refunds on 'first-come, first-served basis' and inability to commit to next update timeline

  • ?

    technology_signal: UL certification issues compound delays; system would require rebuild even if prior certification obtained due to poor manufacturability

    low · Anonymous employee statement: engineers determined system needs rebuild despite prior UL consideration

    • 3:58
    That's what this screams out. And I really – I have to try to put myself in you guys' position, the ones that are just grasping on, holding on and hoping and praying that you're going to get your game.
    4:19
    And I'm trying to wrap my mind around it, and the reason I think I'm having so much trouble with this – and guys, don't take this as an insult. But I think the reason why that those of you out there that are just being stubborn and not seeing the light here, the red flags that are dropping on every sentence that you read, is that you're emotionally involved in this now. You're not thinking as logical as I believe you should. and whenever you let your emotions take over you blinded by a lot of the obvious And that may not be for everybody but that why I think I not able to understand the reasoning behind some of you out there It's because I tend to think a little bit more logical than emotional. And I think for those of us out there that have either worked at this place or visited this place Have a better idea of what is going on and not going on at this facility
    5:40
    With that being said, I have been contacted by a previous employee of Deep Root now of course this person has requested to be anonymous and with all the questions and information that I was getting from this individual trust me it's valid there is no question on like well this person wasn't really employed there and stuff like that so I'm going to do my best to keep the gender and name completely anonymous on this one so I was contacted and this person wanted to discuss with me their experience and what they um what all went down whenever they worked there and it was one of those things where i kept putting on the back burner i just and i i eventually the emails kind of got lost to where i was just like i didn't think about it at the time because i i don't want to think about deep root no there is no time in my day where i I go, you know what? I wonder what they're doing. No, I never think about that.
    6:47
    But with this most recent announcement, it was one of those, you know what? I should give this person a call and see what they can tell me, what they are willing to tell me.
    7:00
    And they told me enough, guys, where I'm hoping that maybe this information will help those of you out there that are a little bit more emotionally involved in this. make a decision on what you should do and the thing is a lot of this information guys i'm sure it's already been divulged by other individuals out there but there wasn't and the thing is a lot of things get posted on pin side and a lot of those things are more than likely coming from sources that used to work there and stuff so a lot of it's probably legitimate It's just that you're not getting a better idea if that person actually did work there. It's a lot of like, oh sure, you can't trust the person that you're reading if they actually did in fact work there. so let me start by saying that one of the main things that was stated is that a lot of people are giving j-pop to blame on all this everyone wants to say of course that this is happening because when you bring j-pop into the equation this is what happens and from what this individual tells me they say that 99 percent of the problems and the issues that are going on a deep root are due to robert that j-pop has little to no say about anything he has merely done his raza game and working on his other one as far as what's going on in the factory and what they should do with these games he's got no say in that so maybe that's a little something that you know that changes some of the mindset that i read that everyone wants to keep on blaming j-pop for is that not really i asked this person why did you leave and that was because this person wasn't getting paid as like everyone would like to on a weekly or bi-weekly basis whatever the paychecks were not consistent there were multiple weeks where this individual did not get paid including a number of other people across the board that would not get paid and i know you're thinking like who why would someone do that why would someone be able to stay on at a job like that And a part of that is because they actually pay very well. According to this individual, when it comes to getting paid there, their salaries and their pay and everything is actually pretty darn good.
    9:56
    So that probably a little bit of a hint on why certain people are sticking around instead of jumping ship as soon as I feel and a lot of us feel that they should Whether that be designers code writers stuff like that chances are they sticking around because like it or not whether or not they're putting out games and profiting, they're still collecting a paycheck. and Nordman left because he could not get an engineer to help him make his game.
    10:34
    That is the issue. And I've heard it from Owsler himself that he can't progress on his food truck game because he can't get an engineer.
    10:45
    That has been the issue here, guys. And from what I've been told, the engineers that were hired and brought in were very green. Like, fresh out of college, they had one engineer that was very knowledgeable and experienced, but that person left due to the fact that they weren't getting paid regularly. So that left a lot of the apprentices, if you will, behind to finish working on Raza. So that is the problem here, guys, is that – and this is something that I noticed while I was there – is that I felt like the people that were working on these machines were still learning as well.
    11:35
    And it was one of those things where it was more I felt it, but I had no facts. So that's why I say that I just – I felt that way about things. and this person definitely said that you know he felt he feels that the the engineers they know what they're doing but it's that robert comes in and he has all these visions in his head on what he wants to do with the game and what he wants them to do and it's just making it he's trying to recreate the wheel and the fact of the matter is he he doesn't need to not on his first game at least and i i asked this person i'm like so what has been the number one killer so far and he was like the fucking pin bar the pin bar that is the major selling point it is what is killing this company when it comes to getting games made and out to the public that's the this innovative and experience that they're trying to throw into pinball is ironically is what's causing them to slowly decay it is one of those things where this person said that they could easily make Raza like what you played in Houston. Turn it into a regular pinball machine, probably make a few adjustments, but they could have easily produced what you had in Houston without a doubt. But it's the implementation of this damn pinbar that I think a lot of people could easily go without. It's what's causing them to have all these delays. This person also stated that one of the biggest issues is the amount of pride that Robert has.
    13:44
    And people see this. It's obvious. It's in his writing. You hear it in his words when he speaks. And it's pride before the fall, guys. And it's one of those things that when I'm almost leaning towards not if, but I'm leaning towards more now to when they finally throw up the white flag.
    14:11
    Who's he going to blame? Because you know it's not going to be himself. Even though previous employees will tell you that it is him, he's more than likely going to blame everyone else. I've even got a quote here that Robert has walked in and told the engineers that he himself could do what they're doing, but he doesn't have the time. Now, some of this information may not be new to you, but just so you know that this information comes from a reliable source that used to work for the company and left for valid reasons. and my goal on this is just to give you information so that way you can make a more concrete decision on whether or not you should stay in take a chance or take that money and put it into something that you know you going to get back in return
    15:15
    That's the choice that is obviously up to you. There's only so many times that they can delay, guys, until I have to wonder what is wrong with you. like because you know majority of us know that july 4th weekend is going to come along and there's going to be another message that gets sent out about more delays and more issues and how whatever and he states that they've got progress but they don't even show anything not even a picture nothing just words this is all this is all you get is just words he could easily take a picture of a bunch of cabinets a bunch of certain parts or something to give people a little bit more hope that they will succeed but it doesn't look that way I mean you've got Haggis Pinball down in Australia that's posting videos on the week weekly giving you more information about what's going on with their company and the progression and the game and stuff like that my conversation with this person is definitely not over. There's more questions that I do need to ask about.
    16:35
    And there's probably things that I've even forgot. But, oh yeah, for instance, there's so many whitewoods that have been created due to the fact that it's just something to give the designers to do while they're waiting on an engineer that is still working on Raza. that's why we got brought into room with all these play fields and all these white woods and things that are in the works because that's just something that the designers just gives them something to do while they sit and wait for an engineer to come on and help them make their game so if i had to nail down what the primary issues here are guys is one management two engineering and three pride all right guys that's gonna be it for me if you like what you've seen here which was i don't really know if it's worth a thumbs up honestly but uh by all means give me the thumbs up because it really does help the channel and um if you haven't already subscribe button is down there uh talking about this just wears me out it's it's it's depressing that's what the thing is that's why i don't like talking about this is because i and i wouldn't care i would not care what is going on with this company but now that they're starting to take people's money that's where I think I have a little bit of emotion involved in this guys is that that's where my logic is kind of going out the window is where I'm thinking about those of you out there that are hopeful that this company you know fulfills your wishes but knowing that the chances of that actually happening are slim to none that's a little upsetting to me but it's one of those things that after I make this video i'm gonna go about my life and just do my thing and i won't be thinking about deep root i kind of wish the thread on pin side would just die people just need to stop talking about them just forget about them they're no longer relevant they should never even be relevant due to all these delays people should just forget about it there's so many more red flags in this guys the ul that's something that's also been brought up is the fact that a year after that they thought the machine was ready the engineers requested that they needed to rework the system because the condition of the system was actually quite poor in their opinions that you know like yeah this is it works but it's not manufacturable so even if they would have gotten the ul last year or the year before that, they would have to go and do it all again because it would have to be a rebuilt system.
    19:42
    Taking way too long to do this. There I go. I'm done. Peace out. We'll see you next time.