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The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 35

Neil McRae / Great British Pinball Podcast·video·1h 8m·analyzed·Jul 17, 2026
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TL;DR

UK pinball hosts discuss Pinfest drama, market pricing shifts, and recent game releases.

Summary

Neil McCrae and Scott Rundell discuss UK weather, Pinfest venue management controversies, distributor competition, secondary market pricing trends, and recent Spooky Pinball reliability issues. They debate the impacts of professional distributors bringing large numbers of games to the show, express mixed feelings about Beetlejuice and Sonic, and analyze used game pricing, particularly noting World Cup Soccer low secondary market value.

Key Claims

  • Pinfest has two major distributors (Phil as Stern dealer and David/Retro Arcade Specialist backed by ElectroCoin) each bringing approximately 35 games

    high confidence · Neil McCrae stating 'apparently 35 each' and discussing distributor competition

  • Evil Dead has reliability issues, particularly with driver board and coil protection even after a year of ownership

    high confidence · Neil McCrae describing 'the weak point the weak point is the electronics. So, the driver board, frankly, it's junk' and noting issues at 'a year in'

  • World Cup Soccer sold via Pinball Heaven for approximately £2,200-£2,500, representing a new low for Bally 90s games

    medium confidence · Neil McCrae: 'World Cup Soccer went for like what was it 20 I want to say 2200 2500 something like that'

  • Beetlejuice uses the same hardware as Evil Dead with no improvements

    high confidence · Neil McCrae: 'I mean, I don't think so. Be juices is the same hardware'

  • Beetlejuice has lost hype and dropped significantly on Pinball Info rankings

    high confidence · Neil McCrae discussing Beetlejuice 'has fallen down like miles down the down the old um the list' and 'It's almost like it's a year old title'

  • Evil Dead owners were able to flip them for profit and have not yet received their original orders

    medium confidence · Neil McCrae: 'a bunch of folks in the UK that had Evil Dead ordered and and they none of them have got them still. They've sold them all because they were they made they were able to sell them for more money'

  • Sonic by Steve Ritchie appears to use an upper playfield design similar to Black Knight: Sword of Rage of Rage

    medium confidence · Neil McCrae: 'It reminded me a lot of Black Knight: Sword of Rage of Rage with that upper acrylic topper'

  • FAST control boards are preferred by boutique manufacturers for reliability and coil protection

    high confidence · Neil McCrae: 'I can see why the boutiques like Petti and Barrels of Fun switched to it... the amount of protection you get... I never hear anybody complaining about a blown IO board'

Notable Quotes

  • “The problem with the UK has always been this takes so bloody long. I've paid it. It's all fully paid. But then I just said, if you can find another buyer, just let them buy it.”

    Scott Rundell @ n/a — Expresses frustration with long UK delivery times for Spooky games, demonstrating willingness to cancel order

  • “The weak point the weak point is the electronics. So, the driver board, frankly, it's junk.”

    Neil McCrae @ n/a — Direct criticism of Spooky Pinball's electronic reliability in Evil Dead after one year of ownership

  • “I genuinely don't know where the stuff is valuewise now. It surprises me every time I see something come up and I'm like, 'Yeah, wow, that went at that price. Okay, cool. God, that's cheap.'”

    Neil McCrae @ n/a — Reflects market confusion and uncertainty about secondary market pricing across the board

  • “I honestly think it was a little bit overhyped from the usual kind of like creator crowd. I think they baked it up to be something bigger than it was.”

    Neil McCrae @ n/a — Critiques creator-driven hype around Beetlejuice, suggesting overmarketing inflated expectations

  • “I don't think the game's as great as... It's definitely not as good as Evil Dead. Um, right. Thoughtwise, for sure. Codewise, I would say no.”

    Neil McCrae @ n/a — Comparative assessment of Beetlejuice vs Evil Dead quality across design and code dimensions

  • “It looks like one of the most boring pins that Steve Ritchie ever come out with, candidly.”

    Scott Rundell @ n/a — Strong negative assessment of Sonic Pinball's gameplay depth relative to Ritchie's other designs

  • “Phil has become a fulltime Stern dealer. So, he deals directly with Stern. Um, and ElectroCoin are kind of backing up David.”

    Neil McCrae @ n/a — Key structural change in UK pinball distribution with major distributors backing competing show operators

Entities

Neil McCraepersonScott RundellpersonPhilpersonDavidpersonJamespersonSpooky PinballcompanyBarrels of FuncompanyElectroCoincompany

Signals

  • ?

    event_signal: Pinfest experiencing distributor-driven game quantity conflicts and community backlash over reduced opportunities for individual contributors to bring games

    high · Phil and two major distributors bringing 70+ games total, some community members asked not to bring pins, others like James withdrawing from event participation

  • $

    market_signal: Broad secondary market pricing compression across used pinball games, with Bally 90s titles reaching new lows

    high · World Cup Soccer sold for £2,200-£2,500; multiple references to 'prices are just down across the board'; traders unable to move games listed by distributors

  • ?

    product_concern: Evil Dead experiencing persistent electronics failures including driver board and coil protection issues even after one year of operation

    high · Neil McCrae: 'the driver board, frankly, it's junk' and 'every kind of issue... has some some relation to that board or the coils'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Early Evil Dead buyers flipped machines for profit before receiving their original orders, driving secondary market demand spike

    medium · UK Evil Dead owners sold machines quickly for higher prices; creators hyped Beetlejuice in flipping efforts similar to Evil Dead experience

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Beetlejuice experiencing significant momentum loss with dropped rankings, reduced creator hype, and community disinterest

    high · Neil: 'has fallen down like miles down the down the list', 'It's almost like it's a year old title', 'peted out a bit', 'honestly think it was a little bit overhyped'

Transcript

supadata_caption · $0.001

0:00
[music] Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast. [music] And here are your hosts, Scott Rundell and Neil McCrae.
0:18
Ladies and gentlemen, no, it's not the World Cup. It's something far better. And after an absolutely dismal performance from England, it's great to be a Scott. Um, welcome. This is, as always, the Great British Pinball Podcast. Uh, I am Neil McCrae and I'm joined as always
0:38
by Scott Reno.
0:39
How are you, Scott?
0:41
Tired.
0:42
You look hot.

“If there's a pin that you want to buy at PinFest, right, come and talk to me and I'll give you my honest opinion on what you should pay for it and and actually whether you should buy it or not.”

Neil McCrae @ n/a — Highlights overpricing concerns at Pinfest and positions himself as community resource for market guidance

Stern Pinball
company
Evil Deadgame
Beetlejuicegame
Sonicgame
World Cup Soccergame
JAWSgame
Pinfestevent
Steve Ritchieperson
Pinball Heavencompany
Retro Arcade Specialistcompany
FASTproduct
Black Knight: Sword of Ragegame
  • ?

    industry_signal: Major UK distributors (Stern-backed Phil vs ElectroCoin-backed David) competing aggressively for Pinfest game supply, creating tension in event logistics

    high · Phil fulltime Stern dealer, ElectroCoin backing David, 35 games each from competitors, Phil told some contributors not to bring games

  • ?

    technology_signal: Boutique manufacturers (Barrels of Fun, Multimorphic) adopting FAST control boards over proprietary electronics for reliability advantages

    high · Neil: 'I can see why the boutiques like Petti and Barrels of Fun switched to it because whilst it's expensive it seems to be quite reliable'

  • ?

    content_signal: Creator-driven content marketing inflating hype expectations for Beetlejuice beyond actual game quality

    medium · Neil: 'it was also big up by people who are trying to flip them' and 'overhyped from the usual kind of like creator crowd'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Extended delivery timelines for UK orders causing buyer cancellations and order transfers

    high · Scott: 'The problem with the UK has always been this takes so bloody long' and canceled Beetlejuice to switch to Jaws

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Sonic Pinball perceived as lacking depth and fun compared to other Steve Ritchie designs, with upper playfield layout similar to earlier titles

    medium · Scott: 'looks like one of the most boring pins that Steve Richie's ever come out with' and comparison to Black Knight Sword of Rage

  • $

    market_signal: Distributors accumulating used game inventory through trade-ins and unable to move at dealer pricing, forcing aggressive price reductions

    high · David listing Stranger Things for £10k unsold, dealers repricing aggressively, influx of distributor resales vs private seller sales on forums

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinfest community division over distributor-driven game contributions displacing individual collectors, some enthusiasts withdrawing participation

    high · James withdrawing from Pinfest, some celebratory about not bringing games, others upset about exclusion, Neil describes 'damned if he did and damned if he didn't' situation

    • 0:44
    I'm flustered.
    0:45
    Damn hot.
    0:46
    I mean, I It's boiling, man. Like, like I know Americans always say, "Hey, you guys don't know what real temperatures are like. This is normal for us." We don't have houses that are like literally built for like hot climates. We're we're built for the cold. My house is feels like a greenhouse at the moment. I swear it's colder outside than it is inside at the moment.
    1:09
    For those of you on YouTube, I'm sharing my air conditioning remote.
    1:14
    Oh, look at that. See, but I I've got air, but only in one room. And that's the
    1:19
    my child 21 and a half degrees in my pin room right now. Um I I um so when I bought the house we're in uh we had to reconigure all the rooms
    1:33
    and a friend of mine uh who I work with at the time said oh Neil if you're doing that you should put air conditioning in
    1:40
    and I was like okay and so we upstairs we've got vented air conditioning
    1:46
    so so there's no noise. It's like it's like a house in Florida it's just cold. Um, and my wife, bless her and love her, was totally against air conditioning. And over the last few years, actually since CO, if I don't remember like the first lockdown of CO, it was super hot. Um, kind of or was it the second one? I can't remember, but it was really hot summer and being locked up indoors all day. Um, because the Stazzy would arrest you if you went outside for any longer than a moment. Um [laughter] it
    2:22
    the um yeah the the the the air conditioning was just glorious and um we got it downstairs in a couple of rooms but they're the the kind of split units so they're a bit they're a bit noisy. You don't have to have them on for long. But
    2:35
    you have solar though, right?
    2:37
    Yeah. So I've got solar. So literally I mean this is the laugh a minute. Well, you know air conditioning uses lots of power. Uh, no. When it's [ __ ] sunny, it doesn't because you got uh solar. Um, and then I charge a battery. Um, and the battery pretty much covers it um overnight or at least at least to the point where it turns off in the middle of the night cuz if you leave it on too long, you kind of wake up with like a like dry mouth like you've never experience basically. Um,
    3:08
    that's all the issues there. But but I have to say, you know, the there is a downside of air conditioning is that you get used to not being hot.
    3:17
    Oh, yeah.
    3:17
    So, when I go outside, it's like, you know, it's like I've been stunned by a heat grenade. Um, and actually this week, I I kind of I I had a bit of a cold on Monday. I had a bit of a cold I picked up on Sunday. On Monday, I didn't feel 100%. So, I kind of just bailed out of going into the office, which I'm glad I did. But Tuesday I went in London and um I don't know Southwest train sometimes they got trains that are like meat lockers sometime sometimes they're like pizza ovens. Unfortunately I got pizza oven on both in and out.
    3:52
    I I had that yesterday like they had um they were running a five carriage surface on a time train
    4:00
    and everybody was cramming into the like the aisles and and around the doors. Do you know what I mean? It felt like you were like in India or something. I
    4:07
    I'll be honest. That's one of my guilty investments is a first class pass.
    4:14
    My company won't let me expense that.
    4:16
    No, I I believe they so I don't cuz I because it's my place of work. Um whenever I've worked in whenever so when I was um where I was doing doing a lot of traveling obviously was sat at home or on a plane. Now I'm in the office a bit more. Um I've treated myself to a first class season ticket which um is worth every penny basically. Although
    4:46
    the walking is only 25 minutes. So you don't So I don't get long enough to do anything useful even though I'm sitting down. Um so yeah, it's hot. The UK is hot. All the pinball clubs and places around the UK are hot. Um, and all the plumball players are smelly. Um,
    5:05
    I was going to ask you that. It is the club like airconed.
    5:10
    So, the club has got air conditioning. Um, and and it was like one of the units works fine. Two of the units do not work. And because of that, um, it just basically means it just doesn't work because there's not enough power. an unit goes into like crazy mode and eventually um gets so hot it kind of pings out. Unfortunately, the air conditioning it can't be fixed because it's of a vintage where whenever a health and safety person sees it, they're like you need to rip that out and replace it with something that's not like I don't know unre like it basically it's an age where you can't repair it because the the it uses I think fluoride in it or something. So you've got to effectively bin it and replace it and that's like change of 20 grand which the club doesn't have. So yeah. Yeah.
    6:01
    And and I mean I I'll be honest with you. I mean event I think eventually we might have to go down that route especially if it's much hotter because
    6:08
    well it feels like it's going to be the norm right in this country now. I think we're going to be seeing temperatures of like 40 and maybe even 50s at one point next year. It was like this is nuts.
    6:18
    Yeah. Well let's wait and see what happens next year. I think if if that happens, we might have to have a GoFundMe on it and um
    6:24
    see see if we can see if we can raise the cash. But I mean, it's a it's a tricky one. Um I mean, the other challenge is if you get it, it's cost a fortune to run. So, um yeah, no easy no easy answers on that. and electricity. Thanks to the glorious Ed Miller band um Ed Nutcase band um is we are the most expensive electricity in Europe if not the world. Um which is just absolutely mental considering the natural reserves that we've got. Um and uh anyway, yeah. So heat um smelly people. Yeah, look pinball people. Uh we got pin fest coming up. Um, let's not be smelly at pinfest, please. Um,
    7:12
    I think Phil, this is this is for you, mate. You need to uh leave some emergency deodorant at the table at the front.
    7:20
    Oh, yeah. To be fair to Phil, he has it. He has
    7:23
    he Oh, there we go. I laughed, but that's true then. Okay. He No, it's I I I'm I I am 99.99% sure he had an emergency can of links by the desk last year that made me laugh. Um but um and kind of I know I mean look um just cover pinfest for a moment. Um
    7:48
    I know there's a lot of frustration about the rooms. I know there's a lot of frustration about stuff in general. Um, and what I understand and I think, um, I think, uh, from what I'm seeing, Phil's going to have all that fixed for next year. Um, it's a bit of a weird one because Phil was kind of damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Um, I mean, if I'd been Phil, I would have basically kicked everyone out and redone the rooms. Um, but
    8:22
    Oh, the uh, what if you want to call it? Booking gate.
    8:26
    Yeah. Yeah. It's basically the So, for those that didn't, so Pinfest is the kind of UK show. Um, Phil always tells the people who bring pinball machines about the rooms first because obviously if you've got no room, you're not going to bring the games and Phil needs people to bring games, right? Um, I don't think that's unreasonable, but anyway, someone leaked it. Uh, and it leaked quite aggressively and basically loads of people booked rooms and
    8:51
    ahead of the opening time ahead of when they should have done.
    8:55
    Yeah.
    8:55
    And candidly, um, it, you know, I would argue it was a bit of a piss take. I personally would have kicked everybody out and started again. Um, but um, you know, and I I get I see it both ways. It's I no matter what we do, it's going to be aggro. But I I I was I did say at the time jokingly that I might just have a microphone and a camera whilst everyone checks in and ask them what pin they've brought.
    9:24
    I suppose we've got other controversies though, haven't we? We've had um obviously now the two major pinball distributors for the UK are bringing in a large number of games and then people's own contributed games have been relegated. Uh so yeah, I'm kind of uh I kind of think that we've [snorts] that we've kind of ended in a place that has some positive things, but also a few negative things about that. I think the positive things is is finally the the pinball pinball distributors in the UK have got off the fat back sides and are doing something. Um I think that's good news. win them over there, Neil. [laughter]
    10:07
    Yeah, I'm the customer, mate. Um, so
    10:13
    are we playing the card the customer is always right? Okay,
    10:16
    we're not that is not a card, mate. That is a fact of life. Um, customer is always right. Um, and and and especially in pinball, the customer is probably more right than than than than the average hobby. Uh, [snorts] actually, that's probably not true. Um the the um No, so look and and basically I mean it's been like it feels to me and I I I don't see everything that's posted on the forum uh cuz I'm banned. Um I wear that like a badge badge of glory. Um but what what I do see is is that there appears to have been a pissing competition on who could bring the most pinball machines to uh Pinfest. And I think it's about it's running at about 35 each I think is what I have heard. Um so I'm really looking forward to 35 copies of Venom and 35 copies of of um Ninja Eclipse. So Scott has un for those watching in black and white uh Scott has managed to break his mic midflow. Um he's he's looking at the screen. He's clicking and clacking. He's shaking his head saying [ __ ] if I know. Um I will continue to waffle on about Pinfest. Um so yeah, so the so the both two big distributors and actually there's a bit more to the story that that meets the eye. Uh we have got um the Yeah. So, so basically Paul, sorry, not Paul. Um, Phil has become a fulltime Stern dealer. So, he deals directly with Stern. Um, and ElectroCoin are kind of backing up David. Electrocoin, I would say, used to deal with Phil a lot and and I think they're clearly panic. They're losing a lot of business. So, I've I've put their money behind David or Retro Arcade Specialist. So, the two of them are having a bit of a pissing fight on is Scott back. He's saying hello and nope. Um, and in in effect, there's been a bit of um a bit of a what the hell? Upgrade to business. Um, a bit of a ding-dong around um why um a bit of a ding cuz they're bringing 70 games. It means Phil didn't need as many games. So, he told a few folks that they didn't need to bring games. Now, personally speaking, that would be music to my ears because the we've lost Scott entirely because the aggro of bringing games to Pinfest um is massive. Although I've got some help with that this year, thankfully. Um and I I obviously never get asked not to bring games because I always bring great games. I'm bringing Beetlejuice. I'm bringing Star Wars Fall of the Empire. I'm thinking about bringing Transformers. It's fantastic. And if it arrives, which I'm exceedingly unlikely in doubting, um
    13:46
    the mystery house game. I forget what it's called. Something mystery house that the biggest mystery is when it's going to get [ __ ] delivered. What? So what?
    13:55
    I don't know. Nothing. I didn't change anything, but Riverside had lost the mic.
    13:59
    Bizarre. weird.
    14:01
    Very bizarre. Anyway, I was just saying, Scott, that um basically there's been a piss pissing fight between the two distributors. Um because
    14:12
    I was going to I was going to say to you, like I know you said like at one point you say, "Oh, multiple of the same game and that, but I'll be honest with you that I think sometimes that's probably been the biggest gripe for me. Sometimes there's like a unique title there that you want to play, Evil Dead, like you did last year, right? one game Q's massive never getting A on it. June same problem. So I I feel like whilst I agree with you I don't want to see many of the same title that I don't want to see like desirable titles that people have played to the death. I would like to see multiple Kongs. I would like to see multiple Transformers. I would like to see multiple Pokémons because
    14:49
    I genuinely think given the number we've got which I think is like around 150 now I don't mind like you know having I I I think I think for the new titles, a couple's not going to kill us. I don't know. And but I don't know if that would be the case. That was kind of a bit of a gag that I
    15:06
    Yeah, I get it. I think conversely though, thinking on it, I think that would be a genuine nice thing. And and just a little bit more on that,
    15:12
    it's nice to see modern titles because we've not really had that. Every time we have Pinfest, it's normally, if I'm honest with you, the same old games that everyone brings every year. And whilst I definitely appreciate everyone's effort to do that because it is an involved effort, it's also a bit boring if you're playing the same games every year.
    15:30
    No. And look, there's some people that just bring out the same old [ __ ] every year. Um
    15:35
    Yeah.
    15:35
    And I'm hoping that the people that feel targeted to not bring games are those. But I mean, I also I also think there's some people who bring games that you look at what they bring and you thought, are you joking me? That's like how did how can you pass the red face test? Bring in some game that literally turns on and explodes
    15:56
    and then and then
    15:57
    we actually did have a few so far, didn't we, last year? Was it the year before last?
    16:00
    No, year before. And the glorious the glorious um [ __ ] what was it called? Spinal tap. Um that that let out it I I just remember seeing this puff of smoke coming out the back of it saying woohoo. And then literally that acid smell of toasted electronics.
    16:18
    I hate that smell. It takes ages for it to go.
    16:21
    I know. It's It gets in your throat. It's awful. But I couldn't help but chuckle when uh when it was that I think Blues was Did Blues Brothers die last year, I think maybe. Or am I thinking of
    16:32
    Can't remember, man.
    16:33
    I'm thinking of the one at I think I might be thinking of the one at uh
    16:36
    Texas.
    16:37
    Texas. Yeah, it it went on It literally did go on fire. The one at Texas. It was a coil that justly cooked itself. Um anyway, I mean, so so the story is is because all the these two guys are bringing a lot of pins, apparently 35 each. Um which is a I'm telling you, moving 35 games is not uh not to be taken lightly.
    16:57
    It's going to be backbreaking. Um, I mean they, you know, they're going to need uh I mean depending on how they bring them, but they're going to probably need a
    17:07
    No, that aside, I think David's um baby I'm sure he won't mind me saying, but I'm sure his baby is due around that period.
    17:14
    Yeah, that's right. He told he told me the same thing, actually. So,
    17:16
    yeah. So, I mean, credit to him for trying to juggle a newborn and and this event. That's a lot.
    17:21
    Yeah, I wouldn't give any credit for that. I think it's [ __ ] stupid. If it was my if it was me, I'd be saying bollocks to pinfest. I'm sticking with a baby. But um but I would say
    17:30
    it's his business though. Do you know what I mean?
    17:32
    Flip side to that. There's a flip side to that which is oh I've got to go up infest darling. You'll have to look after the baby for a few days and then you escape.
    17:41
    Just do what I'm doing. I'm bringing mine. [laughter] Well, I I I tell you there's some uh I remember having a discussion about someone in my office uh that used to come to the office five days a week and it was l literally to get away from the kids.
    17:58
    You know what the amount of people that have shared stories with me with that. There was a colleague of mine where he said what he used to do is he used to sleep on a park bench in the center of London because that was the only time he had peace and quiet because he was so exhausted from being at home where you know the baby was up all the time. I think those of us that have had kids can relate to that. Um,
    18:17
    I'm sure everyone's got a war story. Yeah.
    18:19
    Yes, indeed. I mean, but so look, and then Phil's asked many pinbrers not to bring any pins, and some of them have gone, "Hallelujah, awesome." Because moving pins, let's face it, it's a
    18:34
    lot of work.
    18:35
    It's a mug game, right? Um, the second thing is, um, but some people didn't take it that way. Some people got upset. Um, my good friend James uh felt that, well, hold on. We've always br pins. We want to bring pins. Uh, people I like to share what I've got with with the community. And he's kind of James has I mean, he's basically said, well, I'm done with Pinside. Uh, sorry. Pinfest.
    19:01
    Pinfest. Yeah.
    19:03
    I kind of get that. Although I think
    19:05
    he did bring some really unique games. I'm not going to lie. Got stuff, right?
    19:10
    Got stuff that we're not going to see now. Um hopefully James will have a change of heart. Um and and look again I think this is another reason why Phil's trying to figure out you know the rooms and the number of pins and trying to figure out an answer to that which you know isn't isn't isn't the easiest thing to solve. As someone who's um you know ran a few big pinball events um when you find a venue that works the effort to move or do something different is so hard. So this year we're UK opens in a different venue cuz we're also hosting the EPC, European Pinball Championships and honestly the amount of effort that's caused me um I'm not sure I would do it again. Um
    19:52
    wow,
    19:53
    it's been it's been full on. Um yeah, so some people are some people are like rejoice. I don't have to bring any pins. Some people um some people kind of push back, well I'm I'm bringing some pins because I want to flog them. Um, I I I struggle with people who buy pins at a an event like that cuz basically unless you wait till the last minute and they're desperate to sell them, literally all the prices there are usually awful. Um, [snorts] especially in this market. I mean, um, I mean, put it this way, right? If there's a pin that you want to buy at PinFest, right, come and talk to me and I'll give you my honest opinion on what you should pay for it and and actually whether you should buy it or not. Um,
    20:38
    cuz you know, I'm I'm up for being uh what was it? Pin detective. Um, [laughter] and really upsetting people even more. I mean genuinely the you know the prices especially like I mean you got the dealers there they'll they'll move a little bit but they're not going to move much.
    20:57
    I mean I genuinely I don't know where the price is at the moment for a lot of used games. I mean like
    21:02
    I feel like Pinball Heaven just kind of like set a new low for like ballet 90s games, right? World Cup Soccer went for like what was it 20 I want to say 2200 2500
    21:13
    something like that.
    21:14
    Yep.
    21:14
    That was with pin sound in it. It was like, "Oh, okay." [laughter] Like, "Is this the new low?" Like, is And don't get me wrong, went quickly. So, I don't know if that was the right price. That's the issue I always find with this. If a game is priced too low, it goes very quickly and then everyone says, "Well, that's the price it should be at." It's like, "But was that really the price that people were willing to pay for it?" my my shitbox of a WCS that might give you post poststress trauma or post-t trauma distress PS PTSD or whatever it is. Um I paid 1,800 for that I think.
    21:50
    Oh, did you? That one I paid a lot less than two.
    21:54
    I I don't know. Maybe World Cup Soccer is a bit of a B title, isn't it? But I do I don't know. It's It's a lot of money to restore it.
    22:00
    It's quite a rare It's a quite a rare game, though. Yeah. And I do I like the Papa Juke games. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for those. But um
    22:08
    the Papa Juke games are are okay because you had a bunch of clueful people that helped them helped them fix it. But yeah, I mean yeah, I think that was probably a little bit cheap, but for me, World Cup soccer, you know, players condition,
    22:24
    I thought given the fact of the, you know, time of year, the football and all that stuff. Don't know. Yeah, I I think it was a little bit cheap, but it was probably a trade in. Phil's probably sold it for what he tra got it traded in for. Um
    22:36
    Oh, yeah. I imagine he just wanted short of it and he was just like, "That's going to be a quick sale." But that's probably like I've seen that happen a lot recently though, right? We've seen quite an influx, I think, of games being sold from the distributors instead of from people now because people are just trading in.
    22:50
    Yeah.
    22:50
    Because they don't want to sell on the market.
    22:52
    I mean, this is the thing that's a bit nuts about that. We're seeing people they they so people are trying to sell you know I'll use an example Stranger Things for 10 grand or whatever it was. Well, I can't remember how much it was. Can't sell it 10. Yeah.
    23:06
    They're trading and then the dealer puts it up for 10 grand. They can't sell it either. Um I mean it I was looking it did seem that that David in particular had a lot of um he seemed to spam the forum.
    23:18
    Although conversely I've heard my Metallica sold.
    23:21
    Yes, I heard that as well. Um,
    23:23
    yeah, that's gone.
    23:25
    I had someone buy it who'd had a Metallica premium before.
    23:29
    Uh, I think so. Yeah. I mean, that's the weird part though. It's like they could have bought it direct from me, but I suppose they get a warranty though with the with the resale. That's the one maybe thing that maybe sways people. I suppose you don't really factor that in, right? You and I it's different. Something breaks. We've already discussed this before. We can fix ourselves. But for other people, maybe it's more peace of mind, right?
    23:48
    Yeah, it seems maybe. I mean, in theory, [snorts] you're not I mean, I don't know if you'll if you really get much of a a warranty boost even if you buy it. Um, basically but
    24:00
    yeah, I would definitely think that
    24:02
    it's interesting times in the market regardless, right? There's um I say I I genuinely don't know where the where the stuff is valuewise now. It it surprises me every time I see something come up and I'm like, "Yeah, wow, that went at that price. Okay, cool. God, that's cheap. I I say I do think personally that World Cup soccer was cheap, but maybe um maybe I'm just looking at it a bit too from a ballet 90s lover. I don't know.
    24:29
    Yeah, I mean but I mean I think this is the thing prices are just down across the board.
    24:34
    That's true.
    24:35
    I you know I don't know you know look some games have got probably got a little bit of upside to them like you know Evil Dead last year. Um, Harry Potter seems to be It's not It's down a little. It's not, but it's not up. People saying, "I'm going to I'm going to flip this." And
    24:54
    yeah,
    24:54
    it hasn't been enough. Um,
    24:58
    to be fair though, I haven't seen any Evil Deads come up. Have there even been I think they obviously train change hands in the uh inner circles, but I don't see them changing hands on the forum.
    25:07
    I saw I saw I saw polls after one. Um, but I don't know. It's hard to um it's kind of hard to to really know um what they're going for and and whether you know whether they're worth it. But my sense is um yeah, I mean, Evil Evil Dead I I I get people asking me if I want to sell mine. Um so far, but I have to say Evil Dead um I've had mine for about a year now. Yeah.
    25:42
    And the reliability is better, but it's still not where it needs to be a year in. Um, and the weak point the weak point is the electronics. So, the the the driver board, frankly, it's junk. Um, and and I'm not I'm not having to go spooky on that. they've, you know, they've made it a lot better, but every kind of issue that I that I'm getting is has some some relation to that board or the coils or there not being enough selfprotect in the game so that if a coil does lock on that it that it doesn't take half the game with it. So right now
    26:20
    that's I find that really good with the fast hardware because obviously I've had to program with that quite unfortunately too much in my view from from a home homerew perspective but um they the amount of protection you get to stop you like you know inadvertently frying something. It's quite wellb built. I can see why the boutiques like Petti and Barrels of Fun switched to it because whilst it's expensive it seems to be quite reliable. I never hear anybody complaining about a blown IO board, which is like their equivalent of a node board as an example. So,
    26:53
    I don't know if Spooky just need to revisit. It's hard, right? They've built their own electronics, their own architecture, so to speak. So,
    27:00
    I don't know if they want to try and go down having a third party providing boards for them because it will drive up their costs. They just probably just need to figure out what they're doing wrong, I suppose, with with their boards and and just make further improvements. You'll find out, I suppose, whether or not Beetlejuice will have an improvements. Right. So,
    27:17
    yeah. I mean, I don't um I don't think so. Be juices is the same hardware. Um
    27:26
    Okay.
    27:26
    I don't there's no difference on it, but um yeah, I mean, it's kind of weird cuz some be juices are starting to arrive. Mine is ready actually. It's ready to be shipped. Yeah.
    27:38
    And I know that um you've passed on yours, Scott.
    27:44
    I have. Yeah, I had mine and it was ready to go. And I just said, do you know what? So much time. The problem with the UK has always been this takes so bloody long. I've paid it. It's all fully paid. But then I just said, if you can find another buyer, just let them buy it. And they were like, "Yep, I've got a buyer already lined up. So, do you want your spot gone?" And I said just yeah that just I I'll said like I'll get a different one. So I've gone with Jaws 50th instead only because I I fancied another Lin game. It's been a while since I've had one to be fair. I think the last one I had was Jurassic Park and um
    28:21
    epic choice. I mean it's hard to find a game that is anywhere near as good as Jaws
    28:28
    and it frees up some cash as well because obviously Jaws 50 isn't the price of Beetlejuice. Um,
    28:34
    so I feel like yeah, it's kind of like I had a couple of times where I've just gone like, do I really want this game or not? And I've really been on the fence on it. I think the problem is is that it's a big gamble, right? Because the problem with the UK is we don't get to try games before you've bought them. Um, which means you just have to kind of take a gamble to think, am I going to want to keep this as soon as I play it? And I've been watching the game develop and I just I don't know. I don't know. I don't part of me just feels like it hasn't got the same um what's the word I'm looking for? The same kind of desiraability that I had when I wanted Evil Dead. I still regret not having that game. Um and I feel like Beetlejuice don't know. Uh it's hard to say.
    29:22
    Maybe I'll regret it. I don't know.
    29:23
    Yeah. I mean I I think you made a good choice. I mean, so I've um I managed to pick one up with a very special deal. Um which is really the only reason why I bought it. Um
    29:37
    it's come coming from a an amazing um through an amazing process, but
    29:44
    um I am I don't think the game's as great as It's definitely not as good as Evil Dead. Um, right.
    29:52
    Thoughtwise, for sure. Codewise, I would say no.
    29:57
    Um, I'm not
    29:58
    I also have to face reality that that topper would have probably scared the living hell out of my childhood. [laughter]
    30:05
    I [snorts] um I haven't seen much in the way of um what would I say? There's not much been in the way of of recent hype around Beju, you know. It's
    30:18
    No, I feel like it's peted out a bit. I don't know. Sorry.
    30:23
    It's almost like it's a year old title.
    30:26
    Yeah.
    30:26
    Um so, you know, and and I was just trying to find it on um uh Pinball Info, but it's fallen down like miles down the down the old um
    30:41
    the list. Yeah.
    30:42
    The old list. And there's a few other people trying to get out of it as well. So, yeah. I mean, I I'll I'll have it put in the club for a bit. See how it is. and and and um Siri gone. But I mean, this is my
    30:53
    I honestly think it was a little bit overhyped from the usual kind of like creator crowd. I think they baked it up to be something bigger than it was. I don't I don't think it is an Evil Dead beta. I think Evil Dead is still for me their their flagship title.
    31:09
    No, I mean I think I think it's also um it was also big up by people who are trying to flip them. Let's be let's be bunch of spooky guys
    31:22
    who suddenly saw, you know, after one with Evil Dead where the flipping started kind of late. Um, you know, I think everyone I I can't there's a bunch of folks in the UK that had Evil Deads ordered and and they none of them have got them still. They've sold them all because they were they made they were able to sell them for more money than
    31:41
    Oh, hype and Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure.
    31:44
    So,
    31:44
    I mean, Beetlejuice might surprise me. I don't know. It's hard to say, right? I can't comment on the game cuz all I can do is watch videos and sort of watch it from a distance and that is not the same. I I'll know if I like a game or not when I play it. But unfortunately, I'll never be able to do that, I don't think, cuz we're not going to see a Beetlej juice at the show. I I'd be very surprised if we did. Maybe we will. I don't know.
    32:04
    I will. I'm bringing mine.
    32:06
    Oh, nice. Well, there we go. Maybe then I'll live to regret it. Who knows then?
    32:10
    I think Phil's bringing one. Um I think he got his demo one. Um
    32:16
    Oh, the showroom machine. Okay. Yeah,
    32:18
    I I think so cuz he's got um I know it's Gonzo done a review on it, so I assume it's that one. So I think that one will be there as well. Um
    32:28
    okay, that's good to know.
    32:30
    Basically, so
    32:31
    So let's move on to Sonic then.
    32:33
    Yes.
    32:33
    What's your views?
    32:35
    Uh it looks like one of the most boring pins that Steve Richie's ever come out with, candidly. And
    32:40
    it reminded me a lot of Black Knight Sword of Rage with that upper acrylic topper. Not upper Playfield.
    32:47
    Yeah, for me it reminds me of World Poker Tour. Um
    32:51
    Oh, really?
    32:52
    Yeah. So, if you Well, the Upper Playfield for sure. Um I mean, I don't think it's it's not awful, but it doesn't look like it's a huge amount of fun. Um
    33:02
    I I got to admit I expected more of an Elwin flow to it. It felt initially when I watched people playing it, um, it felt bricky and it didn't feel like, you know, if you unless you were really good at your shots, it didn't look like it had the flow because
    33:20
    even though it had a fan layout and you got into the upper playfield, the upper playfield's got such a wide flipper gap, you got to be bloody good with your shots to keep it up there.
    33:28
    Yeah.
    33:29
    I don't know. I just
    33:30
    I think that's deliberate so that you don't have it up there all the time where
    33:34
    True. Yeah. They've learned they've kind of learned the pain of that. I mean, my So, they had it at the um the Custard Pinball Club. Um what's pinball factory? Um and the overwhelming feedback I heard from people that played it was it was boring. Um
    33:56
    so, I mean, I haven't played it, so take that with a pinch of salt. But the more I look at Kong, right, and I I I think I would like to resend some of my comments. I look at that and I go, that is a flowy game. Like I watch people play and I'm like,
    34:10
    "God damn, you can chain shots till the cows come home on that." I really expected that from Sonic. I think for me,
    34:17
    chaining shots is what I I imagined a Sonic game would look like.
    34:21
    Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I agree. I was expecting that. And and there's a couple of mechs that they've put this kind of the mech kind of it's like a is it looks like a magnet but it's not quite a magnet
    34:31
    like the ramp for the loop the loop. Yeah. Where sticks on a magnet and you can ramp it up.
    34:36
    What um it just didn't feel well I mean I'd love to be wrong. So I'm I am a Steve Richie fan.
    34:44
    Um you know and I think out and John was an amazing game. Um, but I think
    34:51
    I mean it still looks I love the artwork and I like the um the what you want to call it like the mini dot matrix rings around you know they give all the sign that's beautiful work. I love that the things with the switches look look amazing.
    35:08
    Yeah integration seems good basically.
    35:11
    Yeah but ultimately it's it's it's you know it's ball and flippers right? Um
    35:16
    if if if if the ball and flippers doesn't work, it's not great. On the flip side, um Sella game I played since well, I played it before in the last podcast, but I've had a bit more time to play it. So, my Pokemon turned up.
    35:33
    Actually, it sat in my shed for three weeks cuz I had nowhere to put it.
    35:39
    And and I've still if I if I if I pan Hold on. Um, if I pan a little bit on my camera, um, I am I am out of space like you would not.
    35:50
    You are crammed in there, aren't you? Yeah.
    35:52
    I got a Jurassic Park here. I got a um What else is there?
    35:58
    Have you put the cactus mod on yet? I can see things something on top of that.
    36:02
    It's awesome.
    36:04
    So, the code has made a better game with it.
    36:06
    Oh, way better. A million times better. Um, I got Transformers. There we go.
    36:14
    Um, it's come back to me. Um, so yeah. So, look, I I I um I moved my Attack from Mars into my storage unit. Um, so I could bring in and I took a couple of I put another game in in my garage. Um and and I had an event at my house, tournament at my house where I brought Pokemon and um Transformers in and the feedback was very um on Transformers very positive Pokemon. I think I think there's a good game there waiting to get out. It's not it's not awful game. I think it just the code's just not where it needs to be. So, is it like a good game layoutwise and a bad game codewise? Was that fair comment?
    37:03
    I think it's uh Yeah, I think it's a good game. Yeah, I think layout wise and again, so I know on pin side you read there's people having lots of issues with the ball coming off rails and stuff, but and same for Transformers as opposed both my Pokemon and Transformers work 100% of the box. Transformers on the drop targets, they are bricky cuz they're new. I need to adjust the springs on it. So, so you get air balls off them. But that every new game from every manufacturer has a bit of that. Um my my um my take on on Pokemon is is I think that can become quite a fun game with the right code. There's all sorts of talk about online Pokemon stuff. I don't know what's
    37:49
    that would be cool if they can do some proper integration. Yeah.
    37:53
    Yeah. I it just it kind of feels like that. um that's kind of got a bit stuck whereas the code for Transformers seems quite mature for for the age of the game compared to compared to other games. But the thing about the thing about um Transformers, man, it is nostalgia soup to nuts. you you sort of actually I need to test this but the when you power it up for the first time you hit start it plays this long slightly longer theme the transformer
    38:30
    or something like that is it
    38:31
    well it's got it's so they've got the the the real the obvious the official theme
    38:37
    and then Jerry who did the sound on it he's kind of created a few more transformers like kind of background sort or certain um stuff. The call outs from Megatron are [ __ ] hilarious.
    38:52
    Um I I just you just laugh cuz he's he's every bit is kind of he always him and Skeletor from He-Man with he always had these funny comments and um in in the in the cartoon and and they've got them in the game. Um some of the shots on on Transformers are just ex they're like PE like chef's kiss, man. There's there's a shot, the Grimlock shot. Now, Grimlock, lots of people have said he looks horrible. Actually, if you look at the cartoon and compare Grimlock to the cartoon, it's not that big a difference, but I'd love
    39:27
    I think it's more, and we'll probably touch on this in a sec, it's more the Autobots do nothing and the Decepticons do something.
    39:35
    Yeah. I mean,
    39:36
    so you've got the left side
    39:38
    Yeah.
    39:38
    take toppers. The right side animatronics. [laughter]
    39:44
    I think so. I think as I mean clearly um
    39:50
    I'm hoping modders will like step in and kind of like equal that out.
    39:54
    So so um clearly Stern were trying to do something.
    39:58
    Oh you can tell even when Ralph showed the model and he lifted it out. I was like yeah you can see the the kind of husk of what was supposed to be there.
    40:06
    Yeah. But like and this is the thing I appreciate with St. There are some dumb companies who would have gone with something that breaks, right?
    40:15
    Sure.
    40:15
    Starting thinking, look, we want to make this work. We can't make it work, right? And in that case, um we're
    40:23
    I just think they should have got rid of the chicken arms cuz you've seen I mean, I saw Ralph's video.
    40:30
    That 3D print thing is pretty cool to make his arms straight. I would have just done that personally. A bit of extra work, right? But
    40:36
    stops the whole D. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that um I think um Paul Bush, who who does a few mods, is working on a Transformers mod. In fact, um actually,
    40:53
    look, let me just get this.
    40:56
    He's He's running off away from his mic, by the way. Sorry. He's getting a He's getting a box.
    41:01
    I've got a box.
    41:02
    Got a box of tricks.
    41:03
    I've been dying to show this and now that it's available. So I'll be helping. So this is from Mojo Mods. So Mojo Mods.
    41:14
    Okay.
    41:16
    I think he is the best mod maker on the planet. Right.
    41:21
    Sure.
    41:21
    So So I have got his and this is a you have to buy this mod, mate. I have got his chum chucking broad.
    41:29
    Yeah. I've you know what? I've put myself on the list for that.
    41:32
    Yeah, that is that is just one of the best mods. Um
    41:35
    he's based in the UK, right? Yeah, he's a British guy. Paul.
    41:39
    Yeah.
    41:39
    Um, he's he he works for toy companies.
    41:42
    I thought it was Paul. My bad. Yeah. Now, now I get it.
    41:45
    Toy companies. So, hold on. I um Let me just I just don't want to dump caping chips all over my carpet. But, um he has been working on, in fact, let me see if I can show it. Uh uh. Um, you can't really see it cuz my my uh rig, but behind I've got a different Kong in the topper. Um,
    42:15
    okay.
    42:16
    And I'm I'm going to So, he's now done the Kong replacement. Here we go. Uh
    42:23
    Oh, wow. Okay.
    42:24
    Yeah. And and um but it's let me unfortunately I should have I should have assembled this, but it's got Look at this. the uh I'll I'll I'll full assemble it so that people can see this. Um it's got chains on.
    42:41
    Oh, nice.
    42:42
    And and um let me just get the last piece. Um so this is a really easy
    42:53
    you know the Brody Orca kind of mod that he's done then.
    42:56
    Yeah.
    42:56
    Does he sculpt the figurine? Is that what it is? you sculpt it. But so here is Oops. Someone's trying to call me.
    43:06
    Oh, inappropriate.
    43:08
    Yeah, I'm just going to get rid of that, but I have a feeling they'll call me back. Uh, this is the other arm. Yep. This is the other arm of Kong.
    43:19
    Oh, okay. It's got the damsel in it. Yeah. Okay.
    43:21
    Yeah. Uh, very cool. And so I'm going to be putting that on this weekend. Um, and it's got
    43:28
    And that's specifically for the topper, is it?
    43:30
    No, this is for the game.
    43:32
    Okay. So, that sits in the tram area sort of thing.
    43:35
    Yeah. So, hello little guy.
    43:36
    You need to come in because me and mom's going ice skating. That's the reason I I'm staying here because
    43:44
    Okay. I'm going to come in I'm going to come in in in 10 minutes. Okay. All right.
    43:48
    Yeah, but I think they're going I think they're going until I think
    43:52
    Yeah. Okay. I'll be in in 10 minutes.
    43:54
    All right. I won't be long little guy.
    43:57
    That's my friend Scott. Say hello.
    43:59
    Hello.
    44:00
    Hi.
    44:01
    Say pinball is great.
    44:03
    I don't like pin. [laughter]
    44:07
    Right. Go on. I'm going to show you some photos later on, little guy. All right.
    44:12
    What? What photos
    44:13
    from your sports day?
    44:16
    Just to show that we record this without any editing or
    44:20
    I'll show it to you later on. You go in the house. No, I'm not going to show it to him. Um, it's like that BBC News meme where the kid comes on BBC News Live and the kid comes in. It's like, ah. Anyway, so Paul has done an epic job. He So Paul,
    44:39
    his attention to detail is nuts.
    44:41
    Right. So I've also got on my Pulp Fiction, I've got this this chopper that you just put on it just and it one mod and it just adds so much to the game. Right. cuz he did the Godzilla stuff, right? [clears throat]
    44:54
    Godzilla. So, yeah. So, basically he did um let me see if I can share this.
    44:59
    But he did atomic Godzilla.
    45:01
    Uh
    45:02
    back there. You can see it moving.
    45:04
    One for the top one and one for the the game.
    45:08
    Yeah.
    45:08
    The game the the I mean the the Godzilla game thing. If you've got a Godzilla and you do not have atomic Godzilla, you're a [ __ ] idiot. That's that's it. Because it is so good.
    45:21
    Hold on. You may come in right now because they're going because the mom and me is going after mom finished.
    45:29
    Okay, I'm gonna I'll be there. But nanny's there, right?
    45:32
    No, she she's gone now.
    45:34
    Okay. Well, you can stay in here then if you want to stay in here. Okay. Okay. I'll be in in I'll be in in a minute then, little guy.
    45:41
    Um you love it.
    45:45
    Yeah, I do. Um, so and so Paul I Paul kind of teased that he is working on a Transformers mod which I am super excited about.
    45:55
    I think he should f focus on Grimlock first. That would be pretty cool.
    45:58
    Well, we need we need we need we need a If you can do something with um Optimus Prime. So yeah,
    46:06
    I imagine he's going to work probably in with Stumbler right on that. I don't know. I'm not Dave does a lot of the electronics. Um
    46:14
    we should cover that by the way. Hasn't he done a partnership with Multimorphic? Exclusive partnership as well.
    46:19
    It's not exclusive. I don't think I hope it's
    46:21
    not exclusive. Okay.
    46:22
    Well, if it's exclusive, he's a nutter because they sell about five games a year. Um, [laughter] yeah. And it and I'm I'd be feeling worried about the Stumbler cats going hungry. Um, yeah, I saw that and kind of chuckled. My first reaction was, "Oh, that's good. He, you know, five mods a year. It's a nice bit of extra fun. Um, I'm sure I'm going to get beaten up for that. Um, you will.
    46:46
    Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, Mamorphic have got a new game coming out. Some people believe I think you said it was, what was it?
    46:53
    So, Dungeon uh Keeper Car or whatever it's called. It's that
    46:58
    Yeah, Dungeon Crawler Car. Sorry. It's a big It's a big book apparently. Very popular series.
    47:02
    I'm going to have a bit of a rant. Right. Here's what I don't need in my life. There's a whole bunch of bozos on Facebook saying that the next game's great. I've seen it and you haven't. Oh, I hate that. I'm with you.
    47:14
    Who Who in who in marketing thinks that's a great idea?
    47:19
    No one.
    47:20
    It's like It's like
    47:21
    to be fair, I had a go at the guy Electric Back for that cuz I just said to him, "Can you stop?" I said, "We don't need another shill."
    47:27
    I just I'm bored of it.
    47:28
    Stop. It's like Predator. You remember Predator?
    47:31
    Yeah. Oh, don't honestly.
    47:33
    Oh, here's the game and oh, here's like a little logo for I'm like, "No, stop being assholes." You honestly nothing. You do.
    47:41
    You know what I loved? When Labyrinth dropped, it was just like boom. Here's the game, guys.
    47:46
    Out of nowhere.
    47:48
    Shadow drop it. Shadow drop it. That is what I love.
    47:52
    100%.
    47:53
    My favorite.
    47:54
    Um, so yeah, we got a new game from them. We got Totan. Um,
    47:57
    yes.
    47:58
    If you want to buy the most boring game on the planet, but it looking nice.
    48:03
    See, me and you are so different. I would love that game. I just don't think the price is right. All you do is hit the freaking genie but bottle man constantly and you get like a
    48:13
    I have seen you can score abuse the hell out of that. Yeah.
    48:16
    I mean I think they fixed it. I think there's some very
    48:19
    in the 1.5 code they've made it a bit better. Yeah.
    48:21
    Yeah. Okay. Well I want to have a play of it but I'm just like nah.
    48:26
    I think it's a beautiful looking game though. They've done a great job with the lighting the lamps you know the lighting I mean around the ramps. And
    48:31
    you know what though? I don't like the finish on it. Black. Are you on about the Flyland design redesign? Is that what you mean? Or the original?
    48:40
    Oh, I think I think I think both of them are nice. No, I'm talking about the armor. So, you get it in black or you get it in purple?
    48:50
    Sure. Okay.
    48:51
    I want it I want it in silver.
    48:54
    Okay.
    48:55
    You mean like a like a standard stainless steel option like a B Williams?
    49:00
    Cuz I think that looks great. And and black. I think the black one looks awful, mate. I think it absolutely looks awful. I don't know what made them put I mean I've never seen Have you ever seen on your travels a Toon with black armor?
    49:13
    No.
    49:14
    No. Exactly. So,
    49:16
    and and you know I mean the armor that goes with Toon is is
    49:20
    it's kind of weird actually when you think about it. That's very easy for them to do cuz those the rails are in production still. Lock bars are in production. Legs are in production. I mean, if I got one, I would be I would be either migrating it to to to the kind of gold finish that you did for my Theater Magic, which I think I think would look epic.
    49:40
    Yeah, it would, wouldn't it? Yeah.
    49:41
    I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't do um
    49:43
    I'll be honest with you, I'll get one when it's on the secondhand market. I'm hoping enough people buy it. Um
    49:47
    I do I I want a Toan. My wife is like
    49:51
    she she hates it. She's just like I don't I don't see what you see the the fascination with it. Yeah,
    49:56
    but then she hates Circus Voltater and I like that game. So
    49:59
    yeah, I mean that's getting remade as well. So by by
    50:02
    Yeah, that's why mine went. Although that one behind me is just a cabinet. It's not the original game now. But mine I sold mine to um Davey, who I imagine
    50:11
    he'll be using a mod.
    50:13
    I imagine he's making mods for it. Yeah.
    50:15
    Yeah. Yeah. Well, he'll sell a lot more of them than he will of multic mods.
    50:21
    Yeah, true.
    50:23
    Hold on. Let me let me let me I only need one hand for the number of sales of multimmorphic mod.
    50:29
    You're so You're so mean, man.
    50:31
    I've already wind them up about this, too. The We get the Sesame Street counter. One mod, two mods, two mods.
    50:41
    To be fair, I would I I'd prefer that because he's so behind on his other stuff. Davey, sort sort it out. I won my Brog Lord of the Rings. It's been a while now, mate. Come on. Brog Lord of the Rings. I mean, he he'll be making them till he's dead, basically. But
    50:58
    I'm so I'm so desperate for that mod. I just I love my Lord of the Rings. Everyone keeps I do what? Every once in a while when I put a game up for sale and they see it in the background shot,
    51:07
    it'll be like maybe half of it and they'll be like, "You selling that?"
    51:11
    Yeah.
    51:11
    Yeah. And I'm like, "No, [laughter]
    51:15
    I get it."
    51:16
    Also, I want to I want your opinion on this. Here's a quick one.
    51:19
    Wow. Will they ever? Yeah, I know. Will they?
    51:22
    That's my opinion.
    51:23
    Behave. Behave. Do Do you think they'll ever remake Lord of the Rings?
    51:31
    I do not think so.
    51:32
    I don't either. Everyone seems to be so convinced that one's coming, but I just don't see it happening.
    51:38
    I think that there's too many challenges with a license now. I think
    51:41
    Agreed.
    51:43
    Okay. You need to stay there and be quiet then, little guy, until I'm finished. I'm not going to be long. Okay. Um, so, um, that's my grandson, Theo, who's been in and out of the podcast today. This is what
    51:56
    This is four years from now, Scott. This is what we'll be doing at your eyes,
    51:59
    mate. Yeah.
    52:01
    Um, so the the Yeah. I mean, I I think when you look at the when you look at what's happening with the licensing of it and how they've been licensing that, it feels challenging that
    52:14
    agreed. The only way a new one comes out is if someone redo Lord of the Rings again.
    52:22
    Don't do that.
    52:23
    Yeah. I don't think the world needs that frankly.
    52:26
    No.
    52:26
    Um, but I think that's the
    52:29
    They're already doing that new I don't know where it sits in the timeline, but The Hunt for Gollum, which I imagine is somewhere before The Fellowship of the Rings. I don't know.
    52:38
    Hunt for Golem. You know what I'd love is like that kind of movie where I could just kind of fly in in some sort of craft. So they're all they're all trying to find them with axes and magic and I just fly in with a like a heatseeking missile and and the movie's over. Actually actually I've got some I've got some movie homework for you.
    52:57
    Have you seen Hail Mary?
    53:01
    Remind me what the film's about.
    53:03
    I can't say it, mate, cuz cuz
    53:05
    Oh, yes. Yeah. Yes. Is it's about the astronaut with the alien. Yes,
    53:09
    I have seen it. Yeah. Yeah. Good film.
    53:11
    Epic movie. loved it. If you haven't seen it and you're watching, trust me on this one. I think it's the same guy that did The Martian um author of the book,
    53:22
    very very very very good. Um
    53:24
    I I'm I'm I much prefer horror movies, but that was good. But the recent horror movie I liked, Obsession, that was good.
    53:31
    Yes, I've heard that. That's that's very good. Yeah, you can have them. Um so the
    53:39
    Yeah.
    53:40
    So what's your latest game then? Your game was Transformers. Mine's been
    53:44
    Yeah, mine's been um D and D, so Dungeons and Dragons.
    53:48
    I I don't know. I'm I'm a little bit mixed on that one if I'm honest with you. I mean, what's your thoughts on that game? How do you find it? Cuz I find it a little frustrating sometimes that if my character isn't a high enough level on something, it acts as a bit of a barrier to progressing.
    54:00
    That's D&D for you, right?
    54:02
    I know, but I find that part of it little bit conflicting if I'm honest with you.
    54:06
    Yeah. I mean I mean, you know, Dn D is a bit choppy wood sometimes, right?
    54:11
    I like the game. I like the way I like the way it's laid out. I like the shots.
    54:14
    The shots are good. Yeah.
    54:16
    However, in saying that, I've got one here. Um, and I've played more Transformers than I have played D.
    54:22
    Oh, yeah. But it's the newest thing, right? That makes sense.
    54:25
    But but even so, it's not it's not a game that I naturally gravitate towards because it needs lots of um it needs lots. I mean, this is a problem, but in a world where we don't have a lot of time, that game needs a lot of time, you know?
    54:38
    Yeah. D and D, man. One of my games went on for like 35 minutes. I It doesn't sound like a lot to you, Proy, but for me, that's just like I can't I can't play like rounds like that consistently.
    54:48
    That takes you to so far, but you've got more and more and more.
    54:53
    Yeah, it just keeps going.
    54:54
    And if you want if you want a game for longevity that's
    54:57
    Yeah, I think if you're like a one house, one pin game, I mean,
    55:01
    I think D&D is kind of like that
    55:03
    good game is going to be deep enough for you.
    55:06
    100%. I mean it it is huge and I think they've still got a couple of code updates to come out for it. Um
    55:14
    it's on 1.01 now but I mean it's to be fair it's fairly code complete right?
    55:19
    It is it is it is massive basically. Um
    55:23
    Transformers though I mean the grimlock shot is awesome. Um the way that you get the lock shot at the back is quite cool. All I think all the shots in are great. Some of them are tricky. I like Elliot does a great um layout to make couple of tricky shots. Um the ramp shots are are tricky, but it flows really well. The nostalgia level on it's out of this world. I mean, when you hear that music and you hear Optimus and you hear Megatron, it is like you've been back to being, you know, eight years old and um begging that Santa brings you a Transformer Christmas because it is just awesome. Um and and actually I mean linked to that Elliot's other game um John Wick got a new code came out for that. That game is outstanding now. It is one of the best games um I've ever played. Super hard. Shots are really
    56:19
    Hopefully someone brings um a John Wick for the show then.
    56:23
    Hopefully. Yeah. Well, I think if Phil and um and and David are bringing 70 games each or 70 games in total, one of them is bound to be a John Wick, I would have thought.
    56:33
    Yeah, you'd think, right?
    56:34
    Oh, maybe send them a send them a a message. Um yeah, Pokemon again, the the I think the shots are good. It's flowy. Feels like a Gomez game. Um, and yeah, it's there's nothing bad about it except it just feels very seamy. Like every game feels like it's the same game. Um, and they just they just need to they need to do I mean I would argue that about John Wick when it first came out.
    57:05
    Um, you know, and I think Stern will come good. I mean, actually last month Stern put out an update for every game that they've got. um which was massive and painful. Um
    57:17
    yeah, I think to be fair I know they were trying to do that I think for their big 40th kind of like anniversary, right? But
    57:23
    lessons learned I would say from that is maybe stay stagger them out and then you won't have to kind of bug fix a ton of games after you realize there's problems.
    57:32
    Yeah, there's a couple of minor things. Um
    57:35
    like wasn't there like the it was a small things on Elvara like the launch button light wasn't working but there was another one at Iron Maiden that was kind of gamebreaking.
    57:41
    Iron Maiden. Yeah, if you had a premium LE on Iron Maiden, I think it was I think it it stopped stopped the game working.
    57:48
    Although I don't know about that because I've got Disco Made on mine, so I never update it. Um it's it's running some ancient ancient version of code. Um what else to say? Yeah. So look, um the the Yeah. So two games went for Beetlejuice. Mine is ready. I've just got to get it shipped to
    58:07
    Oh, we should quickly discuss Barrels of Fun. The rumor.
    58:10
    Yes. Battles of Fun apparently are doing a rockar.
    58:17
    Well, it's apparently a music pin.
    58:19
    Yeah.
    58:20
    Um I'm the latest rumor.
    58:22
    I'm hoping it's a remake of Dolly Parton.
    58:26
    I'm fearing it's going to be like Muppets Christmas Carol or something like that.
    58:32
    I would that would be awesome. What are you on about, man?
    58:34
    I don't know, man. After having Labyrinth, I don't want another Jim Henson game. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I Yeah, Labyrinth didn't do it for me, I'm afraid.
    58:46
    No, it didn't for me either. I mean, Dune for me is still their best Dane. Like, June is their June is the their leader for me. I don't know until I play Winchester anyway.
    58:55
    I have to say, I was not expecting still to be waiting for this game. Winchester.
    58:59
    Oh, Winchester. Yeah, I think on game 250 now. So, they're game.
    59:04
    Yeah. So, that's another 200 to go. So,
    59:07
    yeah. So, so basically 200 to go, right? What is it? July they've made 200. What game have they are they up to?
    59:15
    250.
    59:16
    So, they got So, I mean that's potentially
    59:18
    as of last week that was. So, maybe Yeah they
    59:21
    six months. I mean,
    59:23
    yeah.
    59:25
    I shouldn't.
    59:25
    Well, they've stopped producing Junes now. So, at the moment they're no longer making two games in the production line. So, I don't know if that means they're just going to double their efforts on the Winchesterers now or if they're going to start the production on the next game.
    59:39
    I heard that they'd moved to to doing um I heard that they'd stopped making Dunes a while ago, but I don't know if that's the case.
    59:49
    Don't know. I mean, they were on game they finished around game 676, something like that. That was the final number for Dune, which wasn't too bad considering its initial poor sales. Well, they did they made the same mistake of of um talking about a game before it was ready. Um
    60:07
    and and you know, anyone anyone who thinks it's good to to tease stuff um it is not good to tease stuff. When you got your game and when it's ready, you'll launch it. That's it. And if you don't do that, you'll just end up hurting your hurting your product. Um it's kind of even as a as a pseudo marketer. Even I know that. Um and and what you know this like I said that Multymorphic and Predator and even even um Jersey Jack were pushing out a little bit with Sonic and oh Steve Hen Steve what was it the king is back like he was back for Elvin John. I mean is he back again? Where did he go?
    60:47
    He's double back. Yeah, exactly. He's like I'm back again. What? They need to remove the revolving door at Jersey Jack or something if that's the way it works. I mean, I just [laughter] like who who in the world have they got doing the marketing for this? Um,
    61:01
    I don't know. There's weird choices in Pinball World, right? We've said this quickly already before, but I just find it odd that they overhype and tease and they build this like weird momentum up on games. I I'm just bored of that. I just rather see that like you can do your teaser trailer like Stern do and then a week later release your game.
    61:20
    Exactly. And and also it's like I mean I think they'd be you know like if you want if you want some marketing advice just send send 10 bucks to Canada. He'll tell you what to do and and like you know that'll be it. You you'll get the best advice you can get.
    61:34
    Agreed.
    61:35
    So um one other thing uh we wanted to talk about. Oh yes very briefly. So the good news is you've got a Jaws coming. Um, the other brief thing I wanted to talk about was a lot of folks coming out with pinball apps that are made by Claude and his band of hooligans. So, I'm a big I'm a big AI fan and and it's kind of my my job.
    62:02
    Um, and basically like these people are bringing out Oh, it's like what what is a little guy?
    62:09
    Um, um Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. So um so look the yeah so a lot of these apps coming out and here's the challenge with them right a lot of these apps are pinging other websites for data
    62:24
    okay
    62:25
    so so you know I was hearing there's a couple of apps um pinball map and match play who are having to put a lot of effort in to restrict the use of their APIs because they're basically getting hoovered down and I mean my response to both of them was like well just charge them for it um and and stop the madness because they're pulling, you know, they're pulling data that isn't theirs to rebrand their their app that that literally looks like it was written by a monkey. Um I I just
    62:58
    coders, man, they're everywhere.
    62:59
    Yeah. I mean, don't me wrong, you can vibe code and like my team do it, but my like at work, but we've got proper coders that that then know how to kind of optimize what's what comes out and know what's good and what's bad. But some of the stuff coming out, I mean, anyone who's a coder and isn't using AI, honestly, you're dead. You're not you're not you're because the expectations around that are way
    63:24
    they want faster turnaround times now. Yeah.
    63:26
    Yeah. I mean, it it's it's unbelievable. Um I know people there's some people in the world that that don't want to hear about AI, but the start reality is is it's it's outstanding now. um the latest claw which you which you can't use anymore actually I was able to to use it for a while before
    63:43
    oh yeah it wasn't restricted by the US government
    63:45
    Trump banned it and probably probably with good reason but um ultimately the the quality that that thing put out was out of this world you just all you have to do with cla is sometimes when you're using it'll actually lie to you I mean bareface lie it's kind of funny
    64:00
    and then and then so I was working on a bit of code with it and not only did it lie Right. Um, it changed a test so that it looked like the test passed. [laughter] Um, and I was like,
    64:14
    sounds like I was like looking at this thinking, "OMG, did it really do that?" And so, so basically, if you Google, there's like a there's like a way that you can avoid Claude lying to you by by just the the way you use the prompts. When you figured it out, it's good to go. But
    64:33
    I mean and just and people say ah cloud life code let me tell you we are using it for high-end
    64:40
    networking code that um has got no room for for crapness I mean we're we're pushing millions of packets through these devices um and this stuff works. We're doing we're doing routing updates um all kinds of signaling traffic and the stuff coming out of Claude, it just works. Um so if if you're in that space, you can resist it and probably be washing dishes um at some point in the future or you can embrace it and be a leader of it and and drive it across your team and help your teams basically.
    65:19
    Your camera's died.
    65:20
    My camera dies. Well, look, we can we can finish on that anyway because I think your uh your grandson was getting
    65:26
    My grandson is uh playing a game now on his iPad. Um he won't he won't play any of the pinball machines. Um
    65:33
    no, well, we already heard that he doesn't find pinball interesting.
    65:37
    That's I'm going to go I'm going to go lock him in a cupboard now. Um kidding. I'm just kidding, little guy. I'm just kidding. Um yeah. So, look. So, so you're on for pinfest?
    65:48
    I am.
    65:49
    Yeah.
    65:50
    We've bought the air defenders. I'm not even joking. We have bought baby ear defenders and then he won't be in the main room.
    65:55
    We kind of just have to kind of rotate. So, um he'll be outside and then my wife will go in when she wants to play and then I'll go in look after him for a few hours and so forth.
    66:05
    Is um we have got some crazy stuff to do on stall which I am doing again. The leader the
    66:16
    Shadow, right? You're bringing Shadow. Of course, there's no other game fit for Stall. Um, it will be Shadow. It will be the Shadow. Um, I will I will be armed uh with my mic and my my short wit. Um, and and and the occasional bang of the game for people that I don't like. Sorry, just kidding. I like everybody. Um, but yeah, it's going to be great. Um, just a couple of shout outs before we go. Um, Pinberg is soon in the US. Uh, so was Papa World Championships in Chicago, which I'm going to. Um, and then we got the UK Open uh towards the end of September. We sold 20 roughly [snorts] 230 tickets. We sold 150 tickets in 2 minutes.
    67:03
    I sold 140 tickets in 2 minutes. Uh, it was a bit nothing.
    67:06
    The scalpers were quick.
    67:08
    Yeah. And um, we're looking forward to it's going to be a massive gig. Um, and with that bombshell Scott and my my my grandson has just pressed the start van on.
    67:24
    There you go. Straight into Transformers. What a segway
    67:27
    because it was on.
    67:29
    Yeah.
    67:29
    Um, but uh yeah. So it's it's a bit noisy, but um yeah, look um look forward to seeing you at Pinfest. Look forward to see. We will do a pinfest special somehow and I'll try and lock my lock my grand lock my grandson in. So, we'll do a pinfest special. I a heard of it and um yeah, we can Yeah. Um on that um com says goodbye. [laughter]
    68:02
    Bye-bye. And um
    68:04
    see you soon, Scott.
    68:06
    Yes. See you soon.
    68:08
    Take care, mate. Goodbye to all of our wonderful listeners, especially
    68:13
    especially Tony.
    68:15
    Special shout out for anyone called Tony. Um, and on that bombshell, we will end it there. Thanks everybody. See you.
    68:23
    Bye.
    68:24
    Look for our special the week of Pinfest. Um, we'll have some It's exciting news about something, I'm sure. Adios amigos. Bye-bye.